March 6, 2025 • 41 mins
What happens when cutting-edge technology meets the traditionally rigid world of construction? In this episode, we dive into the evolution of digital twins, the rise of construction tech, and how data is reshaping the built environment. Tristen sits down with Sarah Causey CEO of Implexus Lab, a powerhouse in BIM and digital transformation, to explore the intersection of gaming engines and building intelligence, the challenges (and triumphs) of being a woman in tech-driven construction, and why imposter syndrome might just be your best career tool. #WICWEEK2025
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Welcome to the Construction Cafe, where the buzz of the construction industry meets thewarmth of a friendly conversation.
I'm your host, Tristen Magallanes.
Join me at our virtual cafe as we explore the foundations of construction culture, sip oncutting edge concepts, and amplify the unspoken voices in our industry.
So grab a cup of your favorite beverage, pull up a seat, and let's build more than juststructures, let's build connections.
(00:33):
This is the Construction Cafe.
welcome back to the Construction Cafe.
Continuing to another amazing interview today for Women in Construction Week.
(00:53):
There's just been so many and I encourage you to listen to all of them.
Everybody has offered some unique different perspective and advice.
Today we are joined by Sarah Causey.
Sarah, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much.
I'm so honored to be here.
I'm excited.
I've known you through Lee, your husband, for a while and I finally get to talk to you andI'm super excited.
(01:20):
It's kind of crazy how long we've not like indirectly known each other.
known each other, but not known each other.
There's a couple other people I work with who either their husband or their wife, I kindof like know through them.
And when I finally get to meet him, I'm like, ah, this is so fun.
And, you know, I think what I think most people want to understand at the get go is sortof who you are, what do you do, what's your role in the industry.
(01:45):
So share a little bit about that.
Sure.
I am CEO and co-founder of what's called Implexus Lab.
We're a digital twin company.
So I come from the BIM world.
I've been in the industry for about 12 years.
I have a background in interior design and master's in construction management.
And then I also studied sustainability, wind and hydropower and solar power.
(02:09):
And the common thread through all the things that I was studying
was the different technology we use to assess things, the computational design tools, themodeling tools.
So technology's kind always been where I sit in this world.
Yeah, so I worked for a while in New York City as a BIM consultant on some of the craziestprojects, which was so much fun and so challenging when you're young in your 20s and
(02:33):
you're just staying up late and doing these crazy projects.
But that was still like,
CAD to BIM transition.
So people were just getting started into the 3D modeling tools.
And then, I've played a lot of different roles.
I've been a BIM manager, a consultant, a design technology director at different firms,sat on the management council of different architectural firms, which is super challenging
(03:00):
in different.
And now, you know, I started my own company.
We're actually two years old, four days ago, which is super exciting.
Thank you.
Yeah.
And there's, you know, a lot of risks and learning opportunities, but also so much freedomin just doing your own thing.
Not everything is golden and whatever, but it's really nice to be able to just chart yourown path and be open to the possibilities.
(03:29):
That's awesome.
Tell me a little bit more specifically about what your company does.
And I ask people to explain it like you're explaining it to a fifth grade class.
Love it.
So a lot of people define digital twins in various ways.
I feel very strongly about what those two words mean.
So for me, it's the marriage of the 3D form in the digital realm, right?
(03:54):
So it's not just BIM but it's the marriage of the 3D form with live data streams.
So if you're a fifth grader, if you're my son Miller in kindergarten, I'd say, you know,if you're in this house or you're in this grocery store,
and we're looking around, every time you walk by the freezer, the light comes on, or youfeel a cool breeze, or there's security cameras, or people at the door.
(04:15):
There's so much information in the world happening all around us.
And the information is cataloged and trended and displayed on a lot of disparate differentplaces.
So a chart here, a company's dashboard there.
And then you have these 3D models that you know, Tristen, we need to build the building.
but then they sort of go on a hard drive to die, which is such a shame in my opinion,because I see, you know, movies in the eighties where they would just pull up a hologram
(04:44):
of the building and see where everything is.
And, and now with, you know, cloud computing, we can finally go there.
So I love the idea of bringing all that disparate data into one place, marrying it with a3d form, and then not only gaining insights about what's happening right now,
but you can start to use artificial intelligence to predict what's going to happen beforeit happens.
(05:05):
So the possibilities are endless.
I really believe in it.
But if you're going to call it a digital twin, you've got to have both pieces.
my husband would probably love to talk to you about this because he does, he's stationeryengineer.
And so they deal with the, my goodness.
Why did I just blink on the term?
like the building management platforms, the BMS.
(05:28):
So I've been inside their BMS for their campus.
And there are, there are with green and black screens.
That's what saying.
What a shame.
and there's like 15 of them.
And I'm like, but, but we've come so far.
Why can't we do this differently?
(05:49):
And he's like, I, and he and he agrees, as somebody who has to sit there and sit behindthe screens.
And this is painful to walk in here and see this.
And maybe it's changed a little bit since I was last in there.
But he would
wholeheartedly agree as the person who has the interface with future data about abuilding, it would be great.
And that's even if they have the data, not like on a piece of paper or in, you know, someperson's brain.
(06:14):
Well, and that's the other problem is a lot of it's in some person's brain somewhere stilland there's.
it just feels good.
it feels, anytime I talk to somebody, they're like, well, duh.
I'm like, I know, let's go do it.
It just seems like, especially as the next generation comes into those roles that yourhusband has, like, they're not going to want to look at that.
They don't understand that.
(06:35):
So having something three dimensional just, I mean, it's easy to understand.
It's easier for stakeholders at the C suite to make decisions.
And it's not that.
hard technically, really.
In Flexis, we build in the Unreal Engine, which is a gaming engine.
And it consumes BIM, no problem.
And then you pull in your live data streams.
(06:57):
It depends what security you're looking for.
But it's not rocket science.
And it looks so good when it's done.
And so I just want to do it.
the other thing that gets me excited about that is if you have enough like buildings, andyou're collecting this information, there's going to be things that you notice or trends
that happen and occur that can influence future building structure, future ways we build.
(07:25):
Because if we have enough of that, and that's, you know, I know if people are like, well,that's kind of like the what if scenarios, yes.
But if we look at other things in our history that we've done that with, it can happen.
And it could pivot or change things, especially around energy conservation for buildings,HVAC systems.
(07:46):
I think of things like that.
there's got to be things we could learn when we utilize these tools.
Absolutely, and simulate possibilities.
Think about when everyone went home during COVID, like, well, everyone thought they weresaving all this energy, but all those buildings were on their HVAC cycles and schedules,
and nobody thought about why are we cooling a building to 68 degrees if no one's inside?
(08:10):
So connecting those dots, hey, there's no one in here.
maybe we'll turn up the heat or whatever.
So silly.
goodness.
Well, and also what about like prototyping?
I mean, obviously what you're talking about, which I totally am on board with, makes moresense for real estate portfolio type companies because all that's their data.
(08:30):
Now, if we're about across, now a university, like a campus structure could probablybenefit, but if we're talking about across a typology, like let's look at all the
hospitals or all the K-12 schools, who owns that?
And that is the biggest question mark.
And I'm not going to act like I know the answer.
But if, I'll talk to some guy in Germany who's building digital twins, how are you doingit?
(08:52):
What are you doing?
And he's like, well, everything's on AWS and America owns Amazon.
And he's like, so that's not great.
So there's a huge, interesting, I'm, just, you know, excited to see what happens.
Don't have all the answers.
I love living in this uncomfortable space, but there are some policy and discussionsglobally around not just AI, but.
(09:15):
this data and what's going to happen, who has access because of security issues and mygosh, it's not as like those magical 80s movies where they just pull up all the room.
It is so much more.
in and like, yeah.
Yeah, I wish it was some days, but.
I know me too.
what I think is kind of cool is I've talked to a few people now and these are sort ofnewer roles, I would say in the industry, right?
(09:39):
And with that is opportunity for people to come into this industry and not just new, youknow, fresh grads, but also transferable of skill transferring skills.
Interestingly enough, a lot of my interviews have been people who studied civilengineering, but are doing very different things with that degree.
And I also tend to hear a lot of architects who've I studied architecture.
(10:01):
Now I'm nothing but something completely not architecture.
So there's all these interesting roles and opportunities.
And you mentioned you're on Unreal Engine, which is a gaming engine.
And thinking of some of these newer generations who are looking to have a role in a job,well, there's an opportunity because there's some incredibly talented people who know how
(10:24):
to work Unreal.
Yeah, absolutely.
Better than me for sure.
that could come into this industry and probably with a little bit of training context,knock out of the park, So again, here's another opportunity and a new upcoming role and
space in this industry that is available for people to come.
And I think that's the incredible thing about construction is there is so much opportunityhere.
(10:48):
There's so much and stuff we haven't even thought of yet.
What have we not thought of that somebody some like I look to the high schoolers now andsome of the little robots that they're making in robotics class and STEM education and I'm
like, whoo, 15 years you're gonna be knocking me out of the park and I'm looking forwardto it.
(11:13):
No, no, we can't, we can't be.
It's moving too fast.
It's exciting though.
Well, you've been in the industry for a minute.
What's it been like being a woman in the industry?
Any challenges you think you've faced specifically around that?
yeah.
I will say it's been nice to watch.
was at Autodesk conference in San Diego in September, October this fall.
(11:35):
And it's been nice because there are way more women now than there were over a decade ago.
It was like five of us, know, and now there's a lot.
And that has been really cool to watch change.
I think, you know, I don't know what was going on in the brains of people before me, but
I don't think being on the tech side was very alluring when you're talking about green andblack screens or CAD.
(11:59):
the render engines and ways to model and the ways to think about 3D form is not amale-female brain activity.
It is everyone.
So I think the allure to being on the tech side really came about, I think, when weswitched to BIM.
But I will say, going to Unreal Engine's conferences,
are like stepping back in time.
(12:20):
There's like five girls.
The gaming industry is very male dominated.
At least, I know, at least from the conference level.
So obviously there are tons of people, game developing and designing from their homes thatdon't ever come to a conference.
But I hope to see that same transition in that world over time too.
(12:44):
Well it's funny, I'm not a huge gamer.
I play like one game.
That's okay.
I'm not either.
I just like to build in it.
But I, but what's funny is I follow different female gamers on different social mediaplatforms, because I just love what they represent.
And some of them, there's one of them who's like the gaming grandma, who she's like, she'slike in her 60s, I think, I don't remember her actual like tagline or name, but she's like
(13:12):
60 something.
And she goes and plays, I don't even know the names of them, but they're the like the onesyou go in and you fight and you shoot and whatever.
yeah, yeah.
She goes in and she just whoops some ass in them and I am just sitting in like I'm in myhome right and I'm just like cheering this 60-year-old gaming grandma on I'm like fuck
yeah, and I'm so I think That I The representation is there and I love that for thatindustry and I think we can learn a lot from some of those things that are still happening
(13:42):
in other industries to you were that
they're still trying to gain more women and other people in the industry.
that's kind of funny.
I'm surprised though, to be honest.
I don't know if it's because it's more of the developer side.
do.
OK.
I will say I can speak to my experience and I will try to project that on what I think isgoing on.
(14:02):
But I don't know.
None of us really knows.
game development, coding at any level is challenging.
I'm going to tell you, your audience way more about me than they wanted to know.
Let's go.
I am a recovering people pleaser.
I'm also like an achiever, like earn, earn your love, earn your friendship.
(14:23):
Achieving is everything.
So to work in a space where you're not great at it and you have to learn your way into it.
And even when you know what you're doing, you're not going to be like, I am the best ever.
as a female, it's challenging.
I think some of it's in our nature.
Hopefully the new generations are getting better at it, but
(14:43):
it's harder to go up into a space that is so raw and messy and you don't know what you'requite doing.
know, coding is kind of messy and be in there and day after day after day, it's not reallynecessarily competing, but to work alongside guys because guys, think traditionally have
(15:04):
been a little bit more comfortable in that realm.
And so I don't know if
how much of that is discouraging or just difficult to go in day in and out and stand upfor yourself and I'm the best or hey I got an idea.
I hope that's changing but that's not unique to one industry or the other.
That's the same thing in construction, that's the same thing in any profession but I thinkit's hard to be the only girl in the room and I'm sure you can relate Tristen, most of my
(15:30):
meetings is just me.
I'm the only woman in the room.
I would say even now, I mean...
Yeah, I've been in the industry since I was 19.
And I would say up until the last 10 years, I was mostly the only woman in the room.
(15:50):
And it's challenging.
I was also the youngest in the room.
So that's just the age thing is a whole nother conversation.
Yeah, oh, yeah.
And I do think it has is starting to change, but I am still often the only woman in theroom.
And
I know that unless, in tell or unless men have experienced being the only man in the room,I don't think they really get it.
(16:19):
And they don't necessarily, no, no, no, no, not their fault.
And they don't necessarily need to get it, but they need to be attentive to it, in myopinion.
And I appreciate the people who, maybe I'm just for some whatever reason, not speaking upin a particular meeting.
I tend to like think a lot and then come back to things.
So,
I just like to process and certain people know that about me and they just leave me aloneand let me be knowing later on I will, you know, save my piece.
(16:46):
But then other people, I think, assume that I don't feel like I can speak up and they'llsay, hey, Tristen like, what about you?
And I appreciate that because they're making space.
Yeah.
It's so powerful because...
I'm not, you we're on a journey.
That's what life is.
We're on this journey.
(17:06):
And one of the biggest changes, I'm still in it.
I'll probably always be.
There's two big changes that I've learned between my late 20s and early 30s to where I amnow.
One is people pleasing is directly negatively connected to innovation.
cannot be a disruptor and make people uncomfortable.
(17:29):
And also people please, like no.
Can't do it.
trying to recover from that and get comfortable making people uncomfortable.
And then the other is I learned really young.
I was in martial arts.
I was a trumpet player.
I always was the only girl.
It's a place I'm very comfortable with.
But I learned to thrive in that you really have to turn on your masculine energy.
(17:52):
You got to be confident.
Puff your chest out a little bit.
Be loud.
And I'm an extrovert.
So it's not so hard maybe compared to other people.
But I'm learning that's not, I don't know that, maybe that got me to where I am now, butthat's not the future.
I've been trying to embrace my femininity, wear skirts, like be cute.
Like I don't have, I had a pixie cut for like a decade, because I was so masculine and inthat.
(18:18):
And that's not actually who I am.
So I'm just trying to unlearn that.
So I love that you can sit back.
and think and then come to the table because I feel so much pressure to, I better speakup.
I better be confident and loud or, you know, so I think that's great.
I am, probably to my detriment.
And then sometimes I'm not, just, I'm a thinker and I've just learned that about myself.
(18:41):
It's Because...
we all process information differently.
Let's talk about neurodivergency and how that shows up in different people.
I think making space for all of that, if you can, right?
I get that it's not always going to be easy, but if you can, we should do that.
So super, super important.
(19:02):
And the recovering people pleasing.
I actually am also, I say, probably a recovering people pleaser.
And I think all of us are recovering from something.
sure human experience this is it everyone needs therapy like this is just part of it
So I was asked at a contact, I was on a panel and somebody asked my advice about, what wasit?
(19:27):
Impostor syndrome, something about imposter syndrome.
And I said, therapy.
And they kind of looked at me funny.
was like, no, I'm actually not kidding.
I go to therapy and if you have a good therapist, try a bunch on just like jeans, try adifferent one on, find the one that fits you best.
(19:47):
And it can help you grow in so many And now with all of these therapy platforms withtechnology, it's so easy to access now.
So.
Therapy is huge.
And then also for imposter syndrome, you know, if this helps anybody who's listening, Ihad to reframe, probably through therapy, I had to reframe that imposter syndrome is
(20:10):
something good.
I want to feel that all the time.
Because if I'm feeling imposter syndrome, then that means I'm the, you know, the smallestfish in the pond or the dumbest person in the room.
And I always want to be the dumbest person in the room because that means I'm learning.
I'm growing my capacity for where I'm headed is larger if I'm comfortable in that feelingof like, God, I don't know anything.
(20:35):
So, I mean, if you're not feeling that, maybe you need to go therapy for something else.
Life is too short to be comfortable, in my opinion.
I agree.
And I also think, it's okay to pivot and punt and do things differently.
And if in five, six years, you're bored, because you are the smartest person in the room,maybe at that point, move on, being different and embrace that I think the like my
(21:00):
mother's generation, my dad's generation, it was commonplace to you stick with a career,you stick with a company for 50 years, you do the same thing.
And that is what you're supposed to do.
I don't think that's true anymore.
And I think embracing that is great.
Opportunity for people in that case is you can take skillsets you've learned in anotherindustry and come to construction.
(21:22):
So yeah, I think that's a conversation that we can also tell people.
like, yeah, you, I mean, I'm, my academic background is anthropology and psychology.
Ooh, that's cool.
I had a minor in anthropology.
Maybe that's why we get along.
People are fascinating.
are fascinating.
My cousin, who's a decade younger than me, also works in construction, also studiedanthropology.
(21:46):
my gosh, you probably have such a cool perspective about the way the user is going to usethe building that other people don't understand.
That's invaluable.
You've got to pull people from different places, especially when you're doing buildings,because everyone's going to use it.
Yeah, at one of my other companies, one of my favorite project engineers who became aproject manager, he had a degree in sociology.
(22:10):
But he was very well liked and very successful at what he did, I think because thatdifferent perspective he brought.
You can learn a lot of on the job skills in construction, if you come from a socialscience background or another type of background.
Your academic training, other job experience doesn't necessarily have to be
specifically directly related
(22:37):
feel bad for...
My kids are little, so I'm so far away from this, but I hear about neighbors kids who arefreshmen in high school who are already deciding how many AP classes they can handle.
And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no.
Wait, what?
Like what is the end goal here?
Do they know what they want to study?
Well, no, they just got to load their high school.
I'm like, it's high school.
There's still kids.
Let them be children.
And maybe that's going to make people angry who are listening to this, or maybe I'm naive,but.
(23:00):
I was a music major my freshman year of college.
I didn't know what the heck I wanted to be.
And I sure didn't know freshman year of high school.
So I think you're spot on.
Like there's so much, you know, there are at least back then there was a stigma if youdidn't know your path or you were general studies like, you better know your path.
But nobody knows their path.
(23:21):
I don't I don't know when I'm going to grow up.
I haven't figured it out yet.
My past like, who knows?
people that all the time.
I've talked to certain people and I'm like, I want to be like you when I grow up.
And they're like, what are you talking about?
Like you're 44.
I'm like, yeah, no, I'm not done.
Not done.
intend to live to be 100 or more, so we got a long way to go.
100 % agree.
(23:42):
so you're a mom in construction.
And I've had a couple other moms, and I'm super curious.
What's it like balancing that?
And you own your own company too.
I know, I know,
It's interesting.
you, I don't know how to explain this.
So you know how like, when there's a wide range of the way people live financially in theworld, especially in the US, huge range of how people pull it off, but you can work real
(24:09):
hard and you can make, hopefully you don't have two jobs, you can make minimum wage andyou probably have to have two jobs and somehow you make ends meet.
You pay the rent.
You get food in your body.
It might not be the best.
You find ways to pay your bills.
You keep the heat on.
You just figure it out.
That's the answer to your question.
Like, I have a four-year-old and a six-year-old.
(24:32):
The youngest one's a pandemic baby, which is wild.
They are very interesting and unique because they didn't see humans like the first year oftheir life.
You just figure it out.
don't know.
Time figures it out.
You learn to create space and protect your space.
Like I really love taking baths.
That is a critical like must have.
(24:55):
My husband always tries to come to I was early on in our marriage.
I was like no no no no no bath time.
No talkie
I have a pillow, I have a thing, and the jet thing, like, critical.
have the jet thing, but we've joked about getting like the external added one and yeah.
I have.
That's what I have.
Like the little plug-in thing.
You gotta get it.
I'm gonna send it to you.
(25:15):
I need that link.
I so I don't know like your your heart grows your capacity grows.
You're exhausted all the time But so is every other adult that's just part of the world.
So I think I Don't know it just sort of figures itself out
Yeah, I don't disagree.
(25:36):
We took on foster kids and we've taken them on during COVID.
And I was hesitant when I got the call for that one because I was like, well, they'regoing to be home all day.
What am I going to Like, how does that work?
And my husband works nights.
So he sleeps during the day in the other room.
And I'm like, my house isn't big enough for all this.
(25:57):
Like, what are we going to do?
But you know what?
Like, same.
We figured it out.
It worked out.
It was actually wonderful.
Isn't it amazing?
Like we just morph and flex and I don't know.
think life gives you what you can handle.
It'll take you right up to the little edge where you're like, I don't know if I can handleanymore, but it'll give you what you can handle.
(26:20):
And the more you're willing to not resist it, but just, okay, we're doing this now.
I think life will give you more and more and you expand.
And I believe that.
mean,
I don't have proof.
It's just a blank.
you're like, I'm living it, we're going.
I think that's great perspective.
Fun question, love to ask this.
If you could talk to Sarah from her first year in the industry, what kind of advice mightyou give her?
(26:50):
Mmm.
That is such a good question.
I did a lot.
My first job, I did a lot of playing the game.
I think you know what I mean, but playing the game, making sure that the gentlemen inpower, you know, were comfortable.
(27:15):
I played that game and the sacrifice.
to doing that and getting too far into that is you abandon yourself.
You put everyone else in front of you.
You make sure everyone's happy, comfortable, whatever, and it's a choice.
But subconsciously or whatever, you don't realize you're abandoning yourself.
(27:36):
You're choosing other people instead of you.
And then one day you wake up and you're like, no.
So I would probably tell 22 year old Sarah, please stop playing the game.
because it's not serving you at all.
And it's enabling the industry and all of these people to continue thinking that that'swhat we're here for, which is definitely not what I'm here for.
(27:58):
And so the further and further you abandon yourself, you're gonna have to spend some timerefinding yourself in your 30s.
So let's just not do that and try really hard, even if it makes people upset, even ifyou're having to...
to risk things that make you feel unsafe.
Like, choose yourself first.
And it's such a hard thing.
(28:19):
I don't think she would have listened.
She'd be like, okay, I'm wrong.
in our early 20s would have listened to anything we have to play now.
I think a slightly different perspective.
Somebody else actually brought up this concept in an interview today, actually, on playingthe game.
They had a little bit different perspective of like, learn to play the game really well toyour advantage.
(28:47):
shoot.
Well, that's fascinating.
I think both are interesting possibilities, right, of just refusing to play the game,which I think is a great option.
Or can I learn it and learn it really, really well?
Maybe Tristen in your role, bringing these two perspectives together, maybe what thelesson is, is having the wherewithal to choose when to play and when not to.
(29:11):
think that's it is some situations might not be safe.
Maybe you're not in an economic position to make different decisions for your life.
Social, whatever, insert whatever it is the thing.
And I think that's okay.
But then there's other times and opportunities where you can, I think, play the game andplay it really well.
(29:34):
And knowing when, when those are and when those aren't.
That's it.
I think it's kind of like playing chess.
And you got to set your plays up.
Mm-hmm.
how to plan.
And if you can get really good at that in this business or in any other business ingeneral, I think you can go a long way.
(29:56):
That does take time though and experience and building the right support group and networkto feel confident in that.
So maybe it's not a 20 year old conversation and that's okay.
Yeah, yeah and 20 year old me would have been mad because I didn't like being told I wasnaive or whatever but I think you're I think you're right I think
(30:21):
Maybe we look at life the same way, like that is literally the whole point.
It's just gain experiences, screw up, learn a thing.
It's really painful sometimes, but as long as you're willing to push through the paintherapy, hashtag therapy, that's what you should call this episode.
Then you can grow and learn different parts of who you are along the way.
(30:46):
I think that's part of why I always want to feel like the smallest fish in the pondbecause there's so many skills that you can't read out of a book.
I don't know if you have this experience because we both like to read where you'll readsomething in a book and you're like, okay.
And then until you experience it in life, you're like, oh, that's what that was.
(31:10):
Yeah.
I've consumed a lot of reading material in my time.
And I would say it probably took until I was around 40 for a lot of it to start clickingfor me.
Also, what helped that was therapy.
Yes, I sort of hate that you're that you had a negative experience with a female because,you know, one thing that I have always yearned for and I will grab on and hold on whenever
(31:38):
I find somebody is females who are ahead of us in this journey.
And there's not that many of them.
But if you can find the good ones, man, like.
They get it.
They know what we've gone through.
They've already been there.
They are willing to share.
that, mean, that is more than any book, any obviously we're all on our own journeys, butthat is such so the so the women who are out there who are listening, like, please
(32:05):
consider mentoring people because it's so needed and there's just not enough women outthere.
I would also say if you are a strong male ally, mentor also, because it's also part of theconversation and those are important relationships to build.
And I have learned a great deal from some of my male mentors in the last five, six, sevenyears, because they've done their own work around this.
(32:31):
And that is gold.
So I think more of that.
And I see that shift happening.
I see more of it.
So people who are considering this industry just know that there's more of it here.
I think my experience early on was more of a, if I'm empathetically putting myself inother people's positions,
(32:53):
It was more of the fact that there just weren't that many positions available for women tobe at a certain level of a business.
It was more commonplace for people to sort of push people down and not share the topspaces because there just weren't enough there for a lot of different people.
And I don't fault them for that.
I recognize that experience for what it was.
(33:16):
We have entered a whole new era where it's about lifting everyone up.
to be as successful as possible in the best way possible that they can be.
And it just is what it is.
It taught me what I learned from that situation though was how I didn't want to be.
I'll tell you, I don't know if this is what you're talking about, but I'll tell you whatcame to mind as you were speaking is something my dad taught me when I was just really
(33:40):
unprepared for what to do.
So negotiating is so hard, probably for everyone, not just women, but like, my gosh, howdo you put yourself out there against somebody who doesn't want to hear what you have to
say to give you more money and negotiate?
And I remember also when you're having imposter syndrome and doubting your worth.
(34:00):
He said a couple of things to me and I'm probably gonna get it all wrong, but one thing Iremember when I knew my worth was more than when I was getting paid, he said, go out.
Well, know, this industry is small.
Call Tristen call all your friends, male, female, whatever, in the role you wanna be in,the role you think is next.
And find out everything you can, even Google it, find out everything you can about thedescription of their job, how much money they're making, what their path was.
(34:26):
and like literally document it and put on not necessarily a PowerPoint, but like presentit and say, look, this is where I want to go.
And if you, if you're telling me you can't give me that dollar sign today, okay, allright.
How do we get from here to where I want to go?
How long let's, let's make a timeline together because these are the skills that says thatthis person has.
(34:48):
I think I do most of those skills, but if, you're saying I'm not worth that, okay, let'stalk about the gaps.
And then I'm going to make a plan and I'm going to focus on those gaps.
And when you work with someone over a year or whatever, hopefully it doesn't take thatlong and you lay it out like that's just logic at that point.
It's like, OK, I got motivated to get from here to there.
(35:08):
You're to have to pay me that when we get there.
Let's go.
And that changed everything for me because you're not just coming out and saying, hey, canI have a ten thousand dollar raise or like here's the template.
for the annual evaluation of what I did this year.
You're making just logic.
Hey, I call all these people.
This is normal.
(35:29):
I mean, it didn't matter how young I was or how female or male or whatever challengesmight have been blocking that.
You built a case, like you're detective.
So if that helps anybody else out there, that really helped me learn how to get into thosetough conversations, those positions in management that
maybe they didn't have enough of or they weren't sure who the right person to choose for.
(35:52):
Okay, well let's have a conversation.
What is it?
What are you looking for?
you don't know?
Well, here's some ideas I have.
It gives you a little bit more power in the action of coming to the place you want to go.
also presents an opportunity for you to help craft what that is going to be, what thatnext role becomes.
And that empowers you to help build that.
(36:13):
And I think it's kind of cool that that's a part of the conversation today, I rememberseeing a...
construction startup company.
I can't remember which one it was right now.
But they had, you know, these are the jobs available currently on their website.
And then they had a separate one that was like, but also, if there's a role that you thinkyou could do, and you want to write your own job description and submit it to us, here's
(36:38):
the opportunity.
And I was like, what?
That's awesome.
doesn't mean it's going to be you know they're going to need it or want it or choose itbut the fact that it's even offered i think is a cool opportunity and it was it was a
construction technology startup company and i cannot think of who it was right now but ithought that was pretty awesome
(37:00):
It is because that's going to give them talent who wants to be there, who's doingsomething unique and different.
mean, that's what any company wants.
I think any company with smart business strategy wants someone who's yearning to make aplace.
There's not always going to be a seat at the table.
There's not always going to be a quota of diversity at the table, especially what'shappening in the world today.
(37:21):
So you make you make your seat.
And I love that.
I hope to see more and more and more of that.
I agree 100%.
are you aware of any specific organizations doing work around equity for women inconstruction, like in your neck of the woods that you are aware of?
Because I don't know your area as well.
So there is a global network called Women in BIM.
(37:45):
It's huge.
It's all over the world.
And there is a mentor scheme as part of it where they pair depending on, you know, I'mlooking for someone who's a mother working in this world.
I'm looking for someone who wants to start their own business, whatever the mentees' needsare.
They map them with someone across the globe.
I have met with so many interesting women.
My first mentor, absolutely fabulous woman who at the time was working for Microsoft.
(38:09):
I learned so much just from our discussions and it wasn't anything formal.
if you're in the technology side of the construction industry, I'd really look at women inBIM.
Okay, that sounds like a great group.
I hadn't heard of it before.
So it sounds cool.
I just learned there's also a thing called World Lighter Day for other nerds.
(38:31):
Just learned that like two weeks ago.
I don't remember.
was within the last couple weeks.
And I guess it's just the second one they've had.
And so other tech nerds might get excited about something like that.
I thought it was cool.
my gosh, it's my birthday!
So there we go, perfect.
World Lidar Our Day.
(38:52):
Learn something new.
I know, you something new every day.
And I know everyone knows your birthday too.
That's really cool!
World Lidar Day!
Yeah, I don't know.
Fun fact, I'm full of them.
I know.
Well, to end this episode, are there any amazing women in the industry that you've eithermentored, been associated with, or you just think are badass and deserve a shout out?
(39:17):
My gosh, there's so many.
my gosh, I'm not prepared for this.
Well, I will say the one that comes to mind.
So she is one of us.
She is a non-traditional woman in construction.
She didn't even come from a construction background.
I believe she came from a finance background.
Her name is Ellen and she is the CEO of,
Turner Flesher Architects.
So Ellen Bensky, she's fabulous.
(39:39):
We spoke, we didn't co-speak, we were both speakers at a conference when I was pregnantwith my first child.
And I was so nervous because you don't feel good when you're pregnant and you're up thereon the stage.
she just, talked for hours about...
being a mom and being a woman and her path and she's just rocking it.
She's, you know, the head of it.
She's gone through some medical stuff lately that's not been easy and she's just nailingit.
(40:03):
So of anyone in this industry that has been such a spotlight or a North star for me, it'sbeen Ellen for sure.
Well, if you think of more, we can tag them later.
I'm happy to do that.
Any final thoughts?
I guess just stop being afraid.
Don't be afraid.
(40:23):
Let's just keep going and be the smallest fish in our ponds and charting new coursesbecause we all have different perspectives, different courses to go on and I just can't
wait to see what people do next.
Digital Twins, I'm sure in no time will be the old news and we'll be hearing about somebrand new crazy cool things.
Yeah.
(40:44):
And hashtag therapy.
I said, hashtag therapy
Well, thanks for joining on the show today.
really appreciate it.
Thanks so much, it was an honor.
Thank you for tuning in to today's episode of The Construction Cafe.
We hope you found our conversation as inspiring as your next big project.
(41:07):
Remember, you can dive deeper into the resources and topics we discuss by connecting withus on LinkedIn and Instagram.
Just search for The Construction Cafe.
Don't miss out on future episodes.
Be sure to follow us on Spotify, Podbean, and Apple Podcasts to keep the conversationgoing.
If you're passionate about the construction industry and have a story to share, we'd loveto hear from you.
(41:28):
Visit our website at the constructioncafe.com and drop us a note.
Let's keep building better together.
Welcome to the Construction Cafe, where the buzz of the construction industry meets thewarmth of a friendly conversation.
I'm your host, Tristen Magallanes.
Join me at our virtual cafe as we explore the foundations of construction culture, sip oncutting edge concepts, and amplify the unspoken voices in our industry.
So grab a cup of your favorite beverage, pull up a seat, and let's build more than juststructures, let's build connections.
(00:33):
This is the Construction Cafe.
welcome back to the Construction Cafe.
Continuing to another amazing interview today for Women in Construction Week.
(00:53):
There's just been so many and I encourage you to listen to all of them.
Everybody has offered some unique different perspective and advice.
Today we are joined by Sarah Causey.
Sarah, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much.
I'm so honored to be here.
I'm excited.
I've known you through Lee, your husband, for a while and I finally get to talk to you andI'm super excited.
(01:20):
It's kind of crazy how long we've not like indirectly known each other.
known each other, but not known each other.
There's a couple other people I work with who either their husband or their wife, I kindof like know through them.
And when I finally get to meet him, I'm like, ah, this is so fun.
And, you know, I think what I think most people want to understand at the get go is sortof who you are, what do you do, what's your role in the industry.
(01:45):
So share a little bit about that.
Sure.
I am CEO and co-founder of what's called Implexus Lab.
We're a digital twin company.
So I come from the BIM world.
I've been in the industry for about 12 years.
I have a background in interior design and master's in construction management.
And then I also studied sustainability, wind and hydropower and solar power.
(02:09):
And the common thread through all the things that I was studying
was the different technology we use to assess things, the computational design tools, themodeling tools.
So technology's kind always been where I sit in this world.
Yeah, so I worked for a while in New York City as a BIM consultant on some of the craziestprojects, which was so much fun and so challenging when you're young in your 20s and
(02:33):
you're just staying up late and doing these crazy projects.
But that was still like,
CAD to BIM transition.
So people were just getting started into the 3D modeling tools.
And then, I've played a lot of different roles.
I've been a BIM manager, a consultant, a design technology director at different firms,sat on the management council of different architectural firms, which is super challenging
(03:00):
in different.
And now, you know, I started my own company.
We're actually two years old, four days ago, which is super exciting.
Thank you.
Yeah.
And there's, you know, a lot of risks and learning opportunities, but also so much freedomin just doing your own thing.
Not everything is golden and whatever, but it's really nice to be able to just chart yourown path and be open to the possibilities.
(03:29):
That's awesome.
Tell me a little bit more specifically about what your company does.
And I ask people to explain it like you're explaining it to a fifth grade class.
Love it.
So a lot of people define digital twins in various ways.
I feel very strongly about what those two words mean.
So for me, it's the marriage of the 3D form in the digital realm, right?
(03:54):
So it's not just BIM but it's the marriage of the 3D form with live data streams.
So if you're a fifth grader, if you're my son Miller in kindergarten, I'd say, you know,if you're in this house or you're in this grocery store,
and we're looking around, every time you walk by the freezer, the light comes on, or youfeel a cool breeze, or there's security cameras, or people at the door.
(04:15):
There's so much information in the world happening all around us.
And the information is cataloged and trended and displayed on a lot of disparate differentplaces.
So a chart here, a company's dashboard there.
And then you have these 3D models that you know, Tristen, we need to build the building.
but then they sort of go on a hard drive to die, which is such a shame in my opinion,because I see, you know, movies in the eighties where they would just pull up a hologram
(04:44):
of the building and see where everything is.
And, and now with, you know, cloud computing, we can finally go there.
So I love the idea of bringing all that disparate data into one place, marrying it with a3d form, and then not only gaining insights about what's happening right now,
but you can start to use artificial intelligence to predict what's going to happen beforeit happens.
(05:05):
So the possibilities are endless.
I really believe in it.
But if you're going to call it a digital twin, you've got to have both pieces.
my husband would probably love to talk to you about this because he does, he's stationeryengineer.
And so they deal with the, my goodness.
Why did I just blink on the term?
like the building management platforms, the BMS.
(05:28):
So I've been inside their BMS for their campus.
And there are, there are with green and black screens.
That's what saying.
What a shame.
and there's like 15 of them.
And I'm like, but, but we've come so far.
Why can't we do this differently?
(05:49):
And he's like, I, and he and he agrees, as somebody who has to sit there and sit behindthe screens.
And this is painful to walk in here and see this.
And maybe it's changed a little bit since I was last in there.
But he would
wholeheartedly agree as the person who has the interface with future data about abuilding, it would be great.
And that's even if they have the data, not like on a piece of paper or in, you know, someperson's brain.
(06:14):
Well, and that's the other problem is a lot of it's in some person's brain somewhere stilland there's.
it just feels good.
it feels, anytime I talk to somebody, they're like, well, duh.
I'm like, I know, let's go do it.
It just seems like, especially as the next generation comes into those roles that yourhusband has, like, they're not going to want to look at that.
They don't understand that.
(06:35):
So having something three dimensional just, I mean, it's easy to understand.
It's easier for stakeholders at the C suite to make decisions.
And it's not that.
hard technically, really.
In Flexis, we build in the Unreal Engine, which is a gaming engine.
And it consumes BIM, no problem.
And then you pull in your live data streams.
(06:57):
It depends what security you're looking for.
But it's not rocket science.
And it looks so good when it's done.
And so I just want to do it.
the other thing that gets me excited about that is if you have enough like buildings, andyou're collecting this information, there's going to be things that you notice or trends
that happen and occur that can influence future building structure, future ways we build.
(07:25):
Because if we have enough of that, and that's, you know, I know if people are like, well,that's kind of like the what if scenarios, yes.
But if we look at other things in our history that we've done that with, it can happen.
And it could pivot or change things, especially around energy conservation for buildings,HVAC systems.
(07:46):
I think of things like that.
there's got to be things we could learn when we utilize these tools.
Absolutely, and simulate possibilities.
Think about when everyone went home during COVID, like, well, everyone thought they weresaving all this energy, but all those buildings were on their HVAC cycles and schedules,
and nobody thought about why are we cooling a building to 68 degrees if no one's inside?
(08:10):
So connecting those dots, hey, there's no one in here.
maybe we'll turn up the heat or whatever.
So silly.
goodness.
Well, and also what about like prototyping?
I mean, obviously what you're talking about, which I totally am on board with, makes moresense for real estate portfolio type companies because all that's their data.
(08:30):
Now, if we're about across, now a university, like a campus structure could probablybenefit, but if we're talking about across a typology, like let's look at all the
hospitals or all the K-12 schools, who owns that?
And that is the biggest question mark.
And I'm not going to act like I know the answer.
But if, I'll talk to some guy in Germany who's building digital twins, how are you doingit?
(08:52):
What are you doing?
And he's like, well, everything's on AWS and America owns Amazon.
And he's like, so that's not great.
So there's a huge, interesting, I'm, just, you know, excited to see what happens.
Don't have all the answers.
I love living in this uncomfortable space, but there are some policy and discussionsglobally around not just AI, but.
(09:15):
this data and what's going to happen, who has access because of security issues and mygosh, it's not as like those magical 80s movies where they just pull up all the room.
It is so much more.
in and like, yeah.
Yeah, I wish it was some days, but.
I know me too.
what I think is kind of cool is I've talked to a few people now and these are sort ofnewer roles, I would say in the industry, right?
(09:39):
And with that is opportunity for people to come into this industry and not just new, youknow, fresh grads, but also transferable of skill transferring skills.
Interestingly enough, a lot of my interviews have been people who studied civilengineering, but are doing very different things with that degree.
And I also tend to hear a lot of architects who've I studied architecture.
(10:01):
Now I'm nothing but something completely not architecture.
So there's all these interesting roles and opportunities.
And you mentioned you're on Unreal Engine, which is a gaming engine.
And thinking of some of these newer generations who are looking to have a role in a job,well, there's an opportunity because there's some incredibly talented people who know how
(10:24):
to work Unreal.
Yeah, absolutely.
Better than me for sure.
that could come into this industry and probably with a little bit of training context,knock out of the park, So again, here's another opportunity and a new upcoming role and
space in this industry that is available for people to come.
And I think that's the incredible thing about construction is there is so much opportunityhere.
(10:48):
There's so much and stuff we haven't even thought of yet.
What have we not thought of that somebody some like I look to the high schoolers now andsome of the little robots that they're making in robotics class and STEM education and I'm
like, whoo, 15 years you're gonna be knocking me out of the park and I'm looking forwardto it.
(11:13):
No, no, we can't, we can't be.
It's moving too fast.
It's exciting though.
Well, you've been in the industry for a minute.
What's it been like being a woman in the industry?
Any challenges you think you've faced specifically around that?
yeah.
I will say it's been nice to watch.
was at Autodesk conference in San Diego in September, October this fall.
(11:35):
And it's been nice because there are way more women now than there were over a decade ago.
It was like five of us, know, and now there's a lot.
And that has been really cool to watch change.
I think, you know, I don't know what was going on in the brains of people before me, but
I don't think being on the tech side was very alluring when you're talking about green andblack screens or CAD.
(11:59):
the render engines and ways to model and the ways to think about 3D form is not amale-female brain activity.
It is everyone.
So I think the allure to being on the tech side really came about, I think, when weswitched to BIM.
But I will say, going to Unreal Engine's conferences,
are like stepping back in time.
(12:20):
There's like five girls.
The gaming industry is very male dominated.
At least, I know, at least from the conference level.
So obviously there are tons of people, game developing and designing from their homes thatdon't ever come to a conference.
But I hope to see that same transition in that world over time too.
(12:44):
Well it's funny, I'm not a huge gamer.
I play like one game.
That's okay.
I'm not either.
I just like to build in it.
But I, but what's funny is I follow different female gamers on different social mediaplatforms, because I just love what they represent.
And some of them, there's one of them who's like the gaming grandma, who she's like, she'slike in her 60s, I think, I don't remember her actual like tagline or name, but she's like
(13:12):
60 something.
And she goes and plays, I don't even know the names of them, but they're the like the onesyou go in and you fight and you shoot and whatever.
yeah, yeah.
She goes in and she just whoops some ass in them and I am just sitting in like I'm in myhome right and I'm just like cheering this 60-year-old gaming grandma on I'm like fuck
yeah, and I'm so I think That I The representation is there and I love that for thatindustry and I think we can learn a lot from some of those things that are still happening
(13:42):
in other industries to you were that
they're still trying to gain more women and other people in the industry.
that's kind of funny.
I'm surprised though, to be honest.
I don't know if it's because it's more of the developer side.
do.
OK.
I will say I can speak to my experience and I will try to project that on what I think isgoing on.
(14:02):
But I don't know.
None of us really knows.
game development, coding at any level is challenging.
I'm going to tell you, your audience way more about me than they wanted to know.
Let's go.
I am a recovering people pleaser.
I'm also like an achiever, like earn, earn your love, earn your friendship.
(14:23):
Achieving is everything.
So to work in a space where you're not great at it and you have to learn your way into it.
And even when you know what you're doing, you're not going to be like, I am the best ever.
as a female, it's challenging.
I think some of it's in our nature.
Hopefully the new generations are getting better at it, but
(14:43):
it's harder to go up into a space that is so raw and messy and you don't know what you'requite doing.
know, coding is kind of messy and be in there and day after day after day, it's not reallynecessarily competing, but to work alongside guys because guys, think traditionally have
(15:04):
been a little bit more comfortable in that realm.
And so I don't know if
how much of that is discouraging or just difficult to go in day in and out and stand upfor yourself and I'm the best or hey I got an idea.
I hope that's changing but that's not unique to one industry or the other.
That's the same thing in construction, that's the same thing in any profession but I thinkit's hard to be the only girl in the room and I'm sure you can relate Tristen, most of my
(15:30):
meetings is just me.
I'm the only woman in the room.
I would say even now, I mean...
Yeah, I've been in the industry since I was 19.
And I would say up until the last 10 years, I was mostly the only woman in the room.
(15:50):
And it's challenging.
I was also the youngest in the room.
So that's just the age thing is a whole nother conversation.
Yeah, oh, yeah.
And I do think it has is starting to change, but I am still often the only woman in theroom.
And
I know that unless, in tell or unless men have experienced being the only man in the room,I don't think they really get it.
(16:19):
And they don't necessarily, no, no, no, no, not their fault.
And they don't necessarily need to get it, but they need to be attentive to it, in myopinion.
And I appreciate the people who, maybe I'm just for some whatever reason, not speaking upin a particular meeting.
I tend to like think a lot and then come back to things.
So,
I just like to process and certain people know that about me and they just leave me aloneand let me be knowing later on I will, you know, save my piece.
(16:46):
But then other people, I think, assume that I don't feel like I can speak up and they'llsay, hey, Tristen like, what about you?
And I appreciate that because they're making space.
Yeah.
It's so powerful because...
I'm not, you we're on a journey.
That's what life is.
We're on this journey.
(17:06):
And one of the biggest changes, I'm still in it.
I'll probably always be.
There's two big changes that I've learned between my late 20s and early 30s to where I amnow.
One is people pleasing is directly negatively connected to innovation.
cannot be a disruptor and make people uncomfortable.
(17:29):
And also people please, like no.
Can't do it.
trying to recover from that and get comfortable making people uncomfortable.
And then the other is I learned really young.
I was in martial arts.
I was a trumpet player.
I always was the only girl.
It's a place I'm very comfortable with.
But I learned to thrive in that you really have to turn on your masculine energy.
(17:52):
You got to be confident.
Puff your chest out a little bit.
Be loud.
And I'm an extrovert.
So it's not so hard maybe compared to other people.
But I'm learning that's not, I don't know that, maybe that got me to where I am now, butthat's not the future.
I've been trying to embrace my femininity, wear skirts, like be cute.
Like I don't have, I had a pixie cut for like a decade, because I was so masculine and inthat.
(18:18):
And that's not actually who I am.
So I'm just trying to unlearn that.
So I love that you can sit back.
and think and then come to the table because I feel so much pressure to, I better speakup.
I better be confident and loud or, you know, so I think that's great.
I am, probably to my detriment.
And then sometimes I'm not, just, I'm a thinker and I've just learned that about myself.
(18:41):
It's Because...
we all process information differently.
Let's talk about neurodivergency and how that shows up in different people.
I think making space for all of that, if you can, right?
I get that it's not always going to be easy, but if you can, we should do that.
So super, super important.
(19:02):
And the recovering people pleasing.
I actually am also, I say, probably a recovering people pleaser.
And I think all of us are recovering from something.
sure human experience this is it everyone needs therapy like this is just part of it
So I was asked at a contact, I was on a panel and somebody asked my advice about, what wasit?
(19:27):
Impostor syndrome, something about imposter syndrome.
And I said, therapy.
And they kind of looked at me funny.
was like, no, I'm actually not kidding.
I go to therapy and if you have a good therapist, try a bunch on just like jeans, try adifferent one on, find the one that fits you best.
(19:47):
And it can help you grow in so many And now with all of these therapy platforms withtechnology, it's so easy to access now.
So.
Therapy is huge.
And then also for imposter syndrome, you know, if this helps anybody who's listening, Ihad to reframe, probably through therapy, I had to reframe that imposter syndrome is
(20:10):
something good.
I want to feel that all the time.
Because if I'm feeling imposter syndrome, then that means I'm the, you know, the smallestfish in the pond or the dumbest person in the room.
And I always want to be the dumbest person in the room because that means I'm learning.
I'm growing my capacity for where I'm headed is larger if I'm comfortable in that feelingof like, God, I don't know anything.
(20:35):
So, I mean, if you're not feeling that, maybe you need to go therapy for something else.
Life is too short to be comfortable, in my opinion.
I agree.
And I also think, it's okay to pivot and punt and do things differently.
And if in five, six years, you're bored, because you are the smartest person in the room,maybe at that point, move on, being different and embrace that I think the like my
(21:00):
mother's generation, my dad's generation, it was commonplace to you stick with a career,you stick with a company for 50 years, you do the same thing.
And that is what you're supposed to do.
I don't think that's true anymore.
And I think embracing that is great.
Opportunity for people in that case is you can take skillsets you've learned in anotherindustry and come to construction.
(21:22):
So yeah, I think that's a conversation that we can also tell people.
like, yeah, you, I mean, I'm, my academic background is anthropology and psychology.
Ooh, that's cool.
I had a minor in anthropology.
Maybe that's why we get along.
People are fascinating.
are fascinating.
My cousin, who's a decade younger than me, also works in construction, also studiedanthropology.
(21:46):
my gosh, you probably have such a cool perspective about the way the user is going to usethe building that other people don't understand.
That's invaluable.
You've got to pull people from different places, especially when you're doing buildings,because everyone's going to use it.
Yeah, at one of my other companies, one of my favorite project engineers who became aproject manager, he had a degree in sociology.
(22:10):
But he was very well liked and very successful at what he did, I think because thatdifferent perspective he brought.
You can learn a lot of on the job skills in construction, if you come from a socialscience background or another type of background.
Your academic training, other job experience doesn't necessarily have to be
specifically directly related
(22:37):
feel bad for...
My kids are little, so I'm so far away from this, but I hear about neighbors kids who arefreshmen in high school who are already deciding how many AP classes they can handle.
And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no.
Wait, what?
Like what is the end goal here?
Do they know what they want to study?
Well, no, they just got to load their high school.
I'm like, it's high school.
There's still kids.
Let them be children.
And maybe that's going to make people angry who are listening to this, or maybe I'm naive,but.
(23:00):
I was a music major my freshman year of college.
I didn't know what the heck I wanted to be.
And I sure didn't know freshman year of high school.
So I think you're spot on.
Like there's so much, you know, there are at least back then there was a stigma if youdidn't know your path or you were general studies like, you better know your path.
But nobody knows their path.
(23:21):
I don't I don't know when I'm going to grow up.
I haven't figured it out yet.
My past like, who knows?
people that all the time.
I've talked to certain people and I'm like, I want to be like you when I grow up.
And they're like, what are you talking about?
Like you're 44.
I'm like, yeah, no, I'm not done.
Not done.
intend to live to be 100 or more, so we got a long way to go.
100 % agree.
(23:42):
so you're a mom in construction.
And I've had a couple other moms, and I'm super curious.
What's it like balancing that?
And you own your own company too.
I know, I know,
It's interesting.
you, I don't know how to explain this.
So you know how like, when there's a wide range of the way people live financially in theworld, especially in the US, huge range of how people pull it off, but you can work real
(24:09):
hard and you can make, hopefully you don't have two jobs, you can make minimum wage andyou probably have to have two jobs and somehow you make ends meet.
You pay the rent.
You get food in your body.
It might not be the best.
You find ways to pay your bills.
You keep the heat on.
You just figure it out.
That's the answer to your question.
Like, I have a four-year-old and a six-year-old.
(24:32):
The youngest one's a pandemic baby, which is wild.
They are very interesting and unique because they didn't see humans like the first year oftheir life.
You just figure it out.
don't know.
Time figures it out.
You learn to create space and protect your space.
Like I really love taking baths.
That is a critical like must have.
(24:55):
My husband always tries to come to I was early on in our marriage.
I was like no no no no no bath time.
No talkie
I have a pillow, I have a thing, and the jet thing, like, critical.
have the jet thing, but we've joked about getting like the external added one and yeah.
I have.
That's what I have.
Like the little plug-in thing.
You gotta get it.
I'm gonna send it to you.
(25:15):
I need that link.
I so I don't know like your your heart grows your capacity grows.
You're exhausted all the time But so is every other adult that's just part of the world.
So I think I Don't know it just sort of figures itself out
Yeah, I don't disagree.
(25:36):
We took on foster kids and we've taken them on during COVID.
And I was hesitant when I got the call for that one because I was like, well, they'regoing to be home all day.
What am I going to Like, how does that work?
And my husband works nights.
So he sleeps during the day in the other room.
And I'm like, my house isn't big enough for all this.
(25:57):
Like, what are we going to do?
But you know what?
Like, same.
We figured it out.
It worked out.
It was actually wonderful.
Isn't it amazing?
Like we just morph and flex and I don't know.
think life gives you what you can handle.
It'll take you right up to the little edge where you're like, I don't know if I can handleanymore, but it'll give you what you can handle.
(26:20):
And the more you're willing to not resist it, but just, okay, we're doing this now.
I think life will give you more and more and you expand.
And I believe that.
mean,
I don't have proof.
It's just a blank.
you're like, I'm living it, we're going.
I think that's great perspective.
Fun question, love to ask this.
If you could talk to Sarah from her first year in the industry, what kind of advice mightyou give her?
(26:50):
Mmm.
That is such a good question.
I did a lot.
My first job, I did a lot of playing the game.
I think you know what I mean, but playing the game, making sure that the gentlemen inpower, you know, were comfortable.
(27:15):
I played that game and the sacrifice.
to doing that and getting too far into that is you abandon yourself.
You put everyone else in front of you.
You make sure everyone's happy, comfortable, whatever, and it's a choice.
But subconsciously or whatever, you don't realize you're abandoning yourself.
(27:36):
You're choosing other people instead of you.
And then one day you wake up and you're like, no.
So I would probably tell 22 year old Sarah, please stop playing the game.
because it's not serving you at all.
And it's enabling the industry and all of these people to continue thinking that that'swhat we're here for, which is definitely not what I'm here for.
(27:58):
And so the further and further you abandon yourself, you're gonna have to spend some timerefinding yourself in your 30s.
So let's just not do that and try really hard, even if it makes people upset, even ifyou're having to...
to risk things that make you feel unsafe.
Like, choose yourself first.
And it's such a hard thing.
(28:19):
I don't think she would have listened.
She'd be like, okay, I'm wrong.
in our early 20s would have listened to anything we have to play now.
I think a slightly different perspective.
Somebody else actually brought up this concept in an interview today, actually, on playingthe game.
They had a little bit different perspective of like, learn to play the game really well toyour advantage.
(28:47):
shoot.
Well, that's fascinating.
I think both are interesting possibilities, right, of just refusing to play the game,which I think is a great option.
Or can I learn it and learn it really, really well?
Maybe Tristen in your role, bringing these two perspectives together, maybe what thelesson is, is having the wherewithal to choose when to play and when not to.
(29:11):
think that's it is some situations might not be safe.
Maybe you're not in an economic position to make different decisions for your life.
Social, whatever, insert whatever it is the thing.
And I think that's okay.
But then there's other times and opportunities where you can, I think, play the game andplay it really well.
(29:34):
And knowing when, when those are and when those aren't.
That's it.
I think it's kind of like playing chess.
And you got to set your plays up.
Mm-hmm.
how to plan.
And if you can get really good at that in this business or in any other business ingeneral, I think you can go a long way.
(29:56):
That does take time though and experience and building the right support group and networkto feel confident in that.
So maybe it's not a 20 year old conversation and that's okay.
Yeah, yeah and 20 year old me would have been mad because I didn't like being told I wasnaive or whatever but I think you're I think you're right I think
(30:21):
Maybe we look at life the same way, like that is literally the whole point.
It's just gain experiences, screw up, learn a thing.
It's really painful sometimes, but as long as you're willing to push through the paintherapy, hashtag therapy, that's what you should call this episode.
Then you can grow and learn different parts of who you are along the way.
(30:46):
I think that's part of why I always want to feel like the smallest fish in the pondbecause there's so many skills that you can't read out of a book.
I don't know if you have this experience because we both like to read where you'll readsomething in a book and you're like, okay.
And then until you experience it in life, you're like, oh, that's what that was.
(31:10):
Yeah.
I've consumed a lot of reading material in my time.
And I would say it probably took until I was around 40 for a lot of it to start clickingfor me.
Also, what helped that was therapy.
Yes, I sort of hate that you're that you had a negative experience with a female because,you know, one thing that I have always yearned for and I will grab on and hold on whenever
(31:38):
I find somebody is females who are ahead of us in this journey.
And there's not that many of them.
But if you can find the good ones, man, like.
They get it.
They know what we've gone through.
They've already been there.
They are willing to share.
that, mean, that is more than any book, any obviously we're all on our own journeys, butthat is such so the so the women who are out there who are listening, like, please
(32:05):
consider mentoring people because it's so needed and there's just not enough women outthere.
I would also say if you are a strong male ally, mentor also, because it's also part of theconversation and those are important relationships to build.
And I have learned a great deal from some of my male mentors in the last five, six, sevenyears, because they've done their own work around this.
(32:31):
And that is gold.
So I think more of that.
And I see that shift happening.
I see more of it.
So people who are considering this industry just know that there's more of it here.
I think my experience early on was more of a, if I'm empathetically putting myself inother people's positions,
(32:53):
It was more of the fact that there just weren't that many positions available for women tobe at a certain level of a business.
It was more commonplace for people to sort of push people down and not share the topspaces because there just weren't enough there for a lot of different people.
And I don't fault them for that.
I recognize that experience for what it was.
(33:16):
We have entered a whole new era where it's about lifting everyone up.
to be as successful as possible in the best way possible that they can be.
And it just is what it is.
It taught me what I learned from that situation though was how I didn't want to be.
I'll tell you, I don't know if this is what you're talking about, but I'll tell you whatcame to mind as you were speaking is something my dad taught me when I was just really
(33:40):
unprepared for what to do.
So negotiating is so hard, probably for everyone, not just women, but like, my gosh, howdo you put yourself out there against somebody who doesn't want to hear what you have to
say to give you more money and negotiate?
And I remember also when you're having imposter syndrome and doubting your worth.
(34:00):
He said a couple of things to me and I'm probably gonna get it all wrong, but one thing Iremember when I knew my worth was more than when I was getting paid, he said, go out.
Well, know, this industry is small.
Call Tristen call all your friends, male, female, whatever, in the role you wanna be in,the role you think is next.
And find out everything you can, even Google it, find out everything you can about thedescription of their job, how much money they're making, what their path was.
(34:26):
and like literally document it and put on not necessarily a PowerPoint, but like presentit and say, look, this is where I want to go.
And if you, if you're telling me you can't give me that dollar sign today, okay, allright.
How do we get from here to where I want to go?
How long let's, let's make a timeline together because these are the skills that says thatthis person has.
(34:48):
I think I do most of those skills, but if, you're saying I'm not worth that, okay, let'stalk about the gaps.
And then I'm going to make a plan and I'm going to focus on those gaps.
And when you work with someone over a year or whatever, hopefully it doesn't take thatlong and you lay it out like that's just logic at that point.
It's like, OK, I got motivated to get from here to there.
(35:08):
You're to have to pay me that when we get there.
Let's go.
And that changed everything for me because you're not just coming out and saying, hey, canI have a ten thousand dollar raise or like here's the template.
for the annual evaluation of what I did this year.
You're making just logic.
Hey, I call all these people.
This is normal.
(35:29):
I mean, it didn't matter how young I was or how female or male or whatever challengesmight have been blocking that.
You built a case, like you're detective.
So if that helps anybody else out there, that really helped me learn how to get into thosetough conversations, those positions in management that
maybe they didn't have enough of or they weren't sure who the right person to choose for.
(35:52):
Okay, well let's have a conversation.
What is it?
What are you looking for?
you don't know?
Well, here's some ideas I have.
It gives you a little bit more power in the action of coming to the place you want to go.
also presents an opportunity for you to help craft what that is going to be, what thatnext role becomes.
And that empowers you to help build that.
(36:13):
And I think it's kind of cool that that's a part of the conversation today, I rememberseeing a...
construction startup company.
I can't remember which one it was right now.
But they had, you know, these are the jobs available currently on their website.
And then they had a separate one that was like, but also, if there's a role that you thinkyou could do, and you want to write your own job description and submit it to us, here's
(36:38):
the opportunity.
And I was like, what?
That's awesome.
doesn't mean it's going to be you know they're going to need it or want it or choose itbut the fact that it's even offered i think is a cool opportunity and it was it was a
construction technology startup company and i cannot think of who it was right now but ithought that was pretty awesome
(37:00):
It is because that's going to give them talent who wants to be there, who's doingsomething unique and different.
mean, that's what any company wants.
I think any company with smart business strategy wants someone who's yearning to make aplace.
There's not always going to be a seat at the table.
There's not always going to be a quota of diversity at the table, especially what'shappening in the world today.
(37:21):
So you make you make your seat.
And I love that.
I hope to see more and more and more of that.
I agree 100%.
are you aware of any specific organizations doing work around equity for women inconstruction, like in your neck of the woods that you are aware of?
Because I don't know your area as well.
So there is a global network called Women in BIM.
(37:45):
It's huge.
It's all over the world.
And there is a mentor scheme as part of it where they pair depending on, you know, I'mlooking for someone who's a mother working in this world.
I'm looking for someone who wants to start their own business, whatever the mentees' needsare.
They map them with someone across the globe.
I have met with so many interesting women.
My first mentor, absolutely fabulous woman who at the time was working for Microsoft.
(38:09):
I learned so much just from our discussions and it wasn't anything formal.
if you're in the technology side of the construction industry, I'd really look at women inBIM.
Okay, that sounds like a great group.
I hadn't heard of it before.
So it sounds cool.
I just learned there's also a thing called World Lighter Day for other nerds.
(38:31):
Just learned that like two weeks ago.
I don't remember.
was within the last couple weeks.
And I guess it's just the second one they've had.
And so other tech nerds might get excited about something like that.
I thought it was cool.
my gosh, it's my birthday!
So there we go, perfect.
World Lidar Our Day.
(38:52):
Learn something new.
I know, you something new every day.
And I know everyone knows your birthday too.
That's really cool!
World Lidar Day!
Yeah, I don't know.
Fun fact, I'm full of them.
I know.
Well, to end this episode, are there any amazing women in the industry that you've eithermentored, been associated with, or you just think are badass and deserve a shout out?
(39:17):
My gosh, there's so many.
my gosh, I'm not prepared for this.
Well, I will say the one that comes to mind.
So she is one of us.
She is a non-traditional woman in construction.
She didn't even come from a construction background.
I believe she came from a finance background.
Her name is Ellen and she is the CEO of,
Turner Flesher Architects.
So Ellen Bensky, she's fabulous.
(39:39):
We spoke, we didn't co-speak, we were both speakers at a conference when I was pregnantwith my first child.
And I was so nervous because you don't feel good when you're pregnant and you're up thereon the stage.
she just, talked for hours about...
being a mom and being a woman and her path and she's just rocking it.
She's, you know, the head of it.
She's gone through some medical stuff lately that's not been easy and she's just nailingit.
(40:03):
So of anyone in this industry that has been such a spotlight or a North star for me, it'sbeen Ellen for sure.
Well, if you think of more, we can tag them later.
I'm happy to do that.
Any final thoughts?
I guess just stop being afraid.
Don't be afraid.
(40:23):
Let's just keep going and be the smallest fish in our ponds and charting new coursesbecause we all have different perspectives, different courses to go on and I just can't
wait to see what people do next.
Digital Twins, I'm sure in no time will be the old news and we'll be hearing about somebrand new crazy cool things.
Yeah.
(40:44):
And hashtag therapy.
I said, hashtag therapy
Well, thanks for joining on the show today.
really appreciate it.
Thanks so much, it was an honor.
Thank you for tuning in to today's episode of The Construction Cafe.
We hope you found our conversation as inspiring as your next big project.
(41:07):
Remember, you can dive deeper into the resources and topics we discuss by connecting withus on LinkedIn and Instagram.
Just search for The Construction Cafe.
Don't miss out on future episodes.
Be sure to follow us on Spotify, Podbean, and Apple Podcasts to keep the conversationgoing.
If you're passionate about the construction industry and have a story to share, we'd loveto hear from you.
(41:28):
Visit our website at the constructioncafe.com and drop us a note.
Let's keep building better together.
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