March 7, 2025 • 40 mins
Who says you have to stick to one career path? Sarah Ahrendt went from nursing to running a thriving construction company—and she’s not looking back. In this episode, she shares how critical thinking, resilience, and adaptability helped her transition into the industry and thrive as CEO of Ardmor Construction. From balancing business ownership with motherhood to setting boundaries and outsourcing the right tasks, Sarah proves success isn’t about doing it all—it’s about doing it right. Tune in for an empowering conversation on paving your own path in construction and why a solid foundation is just the beginning of what you can build. #WICWEEK2025
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Episode Transcript
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(00:05):
Welcome to the Construction Cafe, where the buzz of the construction industry meets thewarmth of a friendly conversation.
I'm your host, Tristen Magallanes.
Join me at our virtual cafe as we explore the foundations of construction culture, sip oncutting edge concepts, and amplify the unspoken voices in our industry.
So grab a cup of your favorite beverage, pull up a seat, and let's build more than juststructures, let's build connections.
(00:33):
This is the Construction Cafe.
welcome back to the Construction Cafe.
We again continuing our amazing celebration of Women in Construction Week.
(00:54):
today we are joined by Sarah Arndt.
Sarah, welcome to the show.
I really appreciate it.
Well, thanks for having me on.
It's a pleasure to be here.
Yeah, so Sarah, tell us a little bit about your company, your role, and anything else youwant to add to that.
Yeah, so I'm CEO of Ardmor Construction.
(01:15):
We service southern Minnesota, western Wisconsin, and northern Iowa.
And we're a seven to eight figure, upper seven, lower eight figure business.
And we specialize in exterior trades.
So roofing, siding, windows, gutters, if it's the exterior of your home, and thencommercial projects.
(01:36):
Okay.
And how long have you been in that role?
I started Ardmor eight years ago now.
were you already in the construction industry prior to that?
was in the construction industry for about three years before I started my own company.
Prior to that, I was actually a nurse.
So I went from a female-dominated field to the male-dominated field of construction.
(02:00):
So I wish Victoria, the other person who often helps co-host was on here because we'vetalked a lot about how a lot of folks come from a different background into this industry.
And interestingly enough, a lot of what is learned in other industries or other paths ofstudy are incredibly relevant and useful into the success of their roles in this industry.
(02:25):
So I didn't actually know that and I think that's super incredible.
have several other nurse friends who have left nursing to do other things and the skillsthey learn in that is pretty incredible.
I think the critical thinking skill is what I, because no matter where you go fromnursing, they really work on teaching you how to critically think.
(02:46):
And I think that that skill is something that's very much valued within construction.
It's not a skill that everybody has, which has allowed me to move, obviously fairlyquickly to a space where I could start and run a pretty successful construction company.
So smaller compared to like the big guys, but.
Well, I think we all have the ability to choose how we measure success and I don't thinkeveryone's measure of success is being a multi-billion dollar company, right?
(03:14):
Like we all have our own choice.
I don't know that I would ever want to own a multi-billion dollar company.
No, billions of problems.
Billions of dollars worth of problems.
So why construction?
Well, my boyfriend at the time, and now my husband, was working in construction and I hadwatched my parents run businesses together.
(03:36):
So my parents were married, ran a resort together, went and taught in Alaska together.
So kind of the bug to do some wild things is just kind of in my family.
And so I guess I really wanted to try working with him to see what that would do, if itwould result in us.
It was either going to make us or break us.
(03:58):
Yeah, I was gonna say, hmm, couples therapy or just open a business?
Yep.
Yep.
You have to work through all your issues if you're going to work, if you're going to own abusiness together.
absolutely.
I also think there's just this sense of like family pride that you create in creating abusiness together that is very much, I think a part of construction culture still.
(04:23):
And I kind of love that.
So that's super kind of cool.
so going back eight years, well,
eight years of your company being in existence, what's been some of the biggest sort ofchallenges and frustrations you faced?
We faced a lot of different challenges.
(04:44):
We've faced a lot of legislative challenges since we've gotten into this industry from thestandpoint that a lot has changed in the industry from everybody, including all your sales
reps being 1099 to then now having to have them be W2.
We work with a lot of insurance companies and obviously we're all seeing all over thenews, all the issues with insurance companies.
And I think it's just coming to light how big the issues with the insurance companies are.
(05:07):
And then you have the stigma of dealing with being in an industry that has a lot, there'sa lot of potential to make money and there's a lot of potential then for a lot of bad
actors.
so, you know, I think getting a reputation as being a company that does the right thinghas been really key to our success.
And then obviously all just the personnel things.
(05:28):
I didn't have management experience.
So I was a nurse, but I didn't have management experience.
So coming in and all of a sudden having, you know, 30, 40 employees and like learning howto manage people and learning it while you own your business.
like, it's a very expensive process.
Try and figure out, how do you build culture?
Like, how do you go about creating?
(05:50):
So all of those things, I think were some of the, the biggest challenges I've been justlearning to get the skills I needed myself as an owner.
So, yeah.
I would venture to argue though, you probably had more skills when it came to managingpeople than you realized having been a nurse and being like, different, it's different
(06:10):
context, sure.
But some of the, I think there's a lot of transferable skill sets there that you probablywere able to pick up on that like a lot faster maybe than others.
And that's probably helpful and useful.
What's something in the last eight years that you've loved most about this journey in theindustry?
I love creating.
(06:31):
So I love just being able to help people create amazing transformations.
And I just love the process of creating, whether it's creating a culture or creating aprocess or creating homes with people where we get to transform their homes or just like
that process for me is like, it just feeds my soul.
So.
that's awesome.
(06:51):
Does your husband feel the same about it?
My husband brings different skills.
So for him, it's very much about...
It's not as much of an art for him.
It's more of a science for him.
This is just how you do it.
Or is it like the passion for like, this is how I love doing it.
And yeah, so.
(07:12):
of cool.
It's kind of cool to have both though.
I think every company needs those different types of people who approach things in adifferent passionate way.
And some of it is behind the science, some of it's the passion for people and community orjust that pride in building something.
I know that's something that attracts me to the industry.
And I love driving past projects and saying I helped, I was part of that.
(07:37):
And that's
I love that about this industry and something I would say for women looking to eitherenter, come to this industry from other industries or just thinking about entering this
industry.
There's an immense sense of pride that you can get from this work and I think that'sreally important to acknowledge that that's here to offer.
Well, I think that, you know, highlighting women in construction, we need so manydifferent voices and there are not enough women yet in the construction industry and we're
(08:05):
still dealing with needing more of those outside perspectives.
And I think that it's, it's gotten a lot easier over the years.
And I think that we still need more women to join in to bring those perspectives.
And, and you're right.
Most of the women that I talk to it's, it's the creation that they, they love.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
(08:26):
And something else I'm thinking about, share, we took in preparation for this, we talked alittle bit and you're a mom and you own a construction company and you're a mom.
I would say a lot of people would think the first thought is like, how do do it all?
(08:47):
Well you don't.
But I think that's the best perspective and advice I've heard from somebody yet of like,you don't have to do it all.
And so how do you change that narrative and be different about that?
So I think it starts with an acceptance of, and this has been a process for me as I'veentered this industry and the hours that this industry can produce.
(09:10):
mean, you can make some great money in this industry.
And when I first started in this industry, I was like, okay, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna stilldo all the home stuff.
I'm gonna meal prep and I'm gonna work all the hours that this industry requires.
And I was for ride.
Yeah.
so I reached a point where I said, okay, what can I, and this was before, this was justafter we'd started Ardmor.
(09:34):
After I'd started Ardmor and there was nothing left to give.
And I'm like, okay, what can I hire out?
Because we didn't have a lot of money coming in.
We're still a startup.
And so I hired out my laundry and I hired out my cleaning.
And that was a massive game changer for me.
So it's been eight years and I have not done my laundry or my cleaning.
(09:58):
And that was the first like, when I'm talking to moms, I'm like, what's the like, arethere little things?
And then the next thing was doing meal delivery services.
I know you mentioned that that's something that has helped.
Yeah, it's and so we started with that.
And then when I got pregnant, had to, I realized that I had to create more systems andprocesses just in the business and just learn to trust people a little more because I have
(10:23):
tended to want to control everything.
And I realized that it was either going to be control everything or the illusion ofcontrolling everything.
Or the illusion of control or like I was going to actually, it was that or.
my family.
was that or being able to be present as a mom.
And I actually had not necessarily a normal like go have a kid, be on maternity leave.
(10:51):
was hiring people to have this plan, hired somebody, went into labor the next day, two anda half months early.
So my daughter spent
40 days in the NICU and I spent six hours a day in skin to skin contact with my childbecause that's just what you do when you have a kid in the NICU.
And I was still burning a lot.
(11:13):
I was still burning at both ends.
So I went into labor, had her at 11 p.m.
and was on the phone by seven a.m.
the next morning with everybody trying to figure out the emergency plan for what it wasgonna look like.
and then since then I've kind of been on an evolution of, when she was really little, wedidn't really want to hire much help because we're in the middle of COVID.
So not only did I have a child in the NICU, we had been on a ventilator, we were in themiddle of COVID.
(11:36):
So I didn't hire out a lot until she was like six months old.
And so I was just like fitting, you know, in between, I was on the phone while I was
Breastfeeding and doing the whole thing and working from home because that was just kindof the season that we were in and my husband Definitely and my team members definitely
stepped up There's no question.
(11:57):
There was there was no way I was controlling it gonna do everything in that time and now Ihave a I have an executive assistant and I have a household manager and so my household
manager is a nanny and then she also manages my house so everything from buying toiletpaper to
buying all the products to signing my child up for all the things that she needs, whetherit's Kumon training or whatever.
(12:23):
I have a three and a half year old daughter and I have a seven and a half year oldstepson.
And so she kind of holds the house together.
And then the other thing that she does that's just been incredible is she actually cooks.
So I come home to a meal in the evening.
Yeah.
And she's a phenomenal cook.
Yes, and I've stepped up.
Like I didn't start with that level because that was, I started with just someone watchingmy daughter and then I would get out of the house because I was going super crazy trying
(12:51):
to, I will tell you, as a parent, the hardest thing on the planet is trying to be a parentand work at the same time.
So when your kids are sick and you're trying to like work at the same time as being aparent, which, yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I've, I had a, I had a foster daughter through COVID, who obviously wasdoing school from home.
She was in fifth grade and it took a little bit, but we developed this sort of symbioticroutine of we would take lunch together and I would have breaks with her during her breaks
(13:22):
during class.
But it was really important for me to, because they were so isolated during that time, Ifelt it was very important for me to take the time to actually interface with her rather
than
holing up in my office all day and quote unquote working for her mental health sake.
And that was challenged to switch my brain gears on the dime to interact with her and thenhave to switch back into work and did that constantly.
(13:46):
But it's achievable.
It just takes, I think, conscious effort.
Well, the other piece that you mentioned there that I think that it's been huge for us,and I was just talking to our household manager because we have a new household manager
and it's routines.
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
create a routine that your kids know.
So like when I come home, my work phone goes away.
I'm the owner of the company.
(14:07):
I have two phones.
So I have a work phone and a personal phone.
And when I walk in the door, my work phone goes away and my personal phone is on.
And there are key people in the company that have my personal phone.
So if there is an emergency, they will reach out to my personal phone.
If it's not an emergency, are deputized with like, these are the things you can solve.
(14:28):
You know what things you can't
You call me if there's an emergency and then we use screens if it's like a true emergency.
My daughter gets some screen time and we just deal with it because that happens.
It's life and I think sometimes as women we are so hard on ourselves.
Like we have to have this perfectly clean house.
We have to be the perfect wife.
We have to be the perfect mother.
And it's, you know, you look at this, this image that everybody has on social media andyou're like, how do they do it?
(14:53):
Well, they don't do it all.
You know, it's not real.
let's, let's be honest about that.
You're getting what they want you to see on social media and reality check is majority ofthat is not real.
And I, I've also had to level with myself.
I had this thought yesterday, I walked into my garage to change the laundry.
(15:18):
And I looked around and I went, my garage is a
freaking mess right now and it causes a little bit of anxiety for me.
But then I walked in the house and I looked at my dogs.
I was like, the garage can wait.
And I went outside and played with my dogs because not only is that important for them andthem not being crazy cattle dogs and getting exercise, but it also helps me.
(15:42):
There's a benefit to me to checking myself and just enjoying life.
And same thing with with all the kiddos we've had in our care.
Recognizing that my interaction with them is not as just it's a very important for them.
It's also important for me.
And I think women often forget that we are entitled to being a little selfish sometimes,and taking care of ourselves in whatever way we need to.
(16:09):
It's very easy to not do that.
And I
to flip that.
I've had to say, if I have nothing to give, it is not selfish to take care of myself.
Because if I'm trying to pull from an empty well, or if I'm trying to pull from an emptySarah, what is going to come out is not pretty.
So the most loving thing that I can do for my family is sometimes, I had this, this was myyesterday, yesterday, was, my husband this morning was like.
(16:39):
Well, you're disconnected.
I was disconnected for half an afternoon and I needed it because I couldn't show up as theCEO.
If I show up in the office having a bad day, every person around me is going to have a badday and now I'm going to bring that home to my children and it's like, it's not good.
So I have to say it's the most loving thing that I can do for other people to take care ofmyself.
(17:03):
Yeah, last year, I can't remember what month it was.
I was reaching both personally and professionally.
had a we had a foster kiddo in our care was just exceptionally difficult, not the childhimself.
I don't ever want to say that they themselves as individuals are difficult.
But a lot of what we were dealing with was challenging for us of some of the trauma wewere trying to help him through.
(17:27):
navigating different conversations, cultural differences.
And I also was working a lot of hours and traveling a lot and doing all these things.
And I kind of hit burnout, like a level of burnout.
And I was recognizing it was happening.
And I looked at my husband, and I said, I know this might not seem fair of me to ask.
(17:48):
But do you mind if I just go take three days and sit on a beach?
And
resoundingly, he's absolutely go for it.
I got everything here.
And so with the points I had, I booked myself a flight to a resort in Mexico and literallydidn't do anything other than sit and read on the beach for three days because that's what
(18:10):
I needed.
And I came back and I was a better person for it.
And I jumped right back into things and I felt better.
sometimes, and maybe your answer isn't, you know, going to the beach in Mexico, it mightbe
going to a cabin or just going to a friend's house and something.
It could be a lot of things.
Recognizing that that's what you need and taking that time for it and ensuring that you'resurrounded by people who support those decisions I think is really, important.
(18:38):
Yeah.
to normalize it.
I think that that needs to be the normal.
And actually my husband and I both have had to do that.
We both had to look at each other and he's had to say, I need a weekend.
And I'm like, okay, we will do whatever we have to do to make sure you have a weekend tojust go.
If you need to go, because like if we are here, we own our business, the business willfind us.
(18:58):
If we are, it just will.
That's just, if there's, if it needs us, it's going to find us.
And so, yeah.
when I live back to back to like the like how this piece of this conversation started islike the hacks and sort of offloading some of some of the load.
And not everybody has the access to financially hiring help necessarily.
(19:22):
And I recognize that.
But there's a lot of other things that we can learn from each other.
So, for instance, I go, I'm a dork.
At the start of the year, I went through my Amazon household things that I commonly buy,and I preset all of it on subscribe and save auto deliveries.
(19:45):
So the key things in my household I just don't even think about, and they automaticallyjust show up.
And everybody in the house knows where everything goes, and whomever gets the deliveryputs it away.
And that alone...
something very small, but like I never have to worry about if there's toilet paper in thehouse.
I never have to think if, you know, we have cleaning stuff or like just stuff like that.
(20:07):
And it might seem small, but I just don't have to think about it anymore.
And it
other things that you have done that have that have been major like because you talkedabout the meals that you do meals are there other things that you've done?
do do factor meals.
We've tried other different types of meal services in the past, and that's just one wehappen to like and it facilitates our life.
(20:32):
And we actually did it initially to stop using DoorDash.
And it's not only saved us money, but it saved us a lot of time.
And of the year plus we've been using it, not even kidding, there's only been two mealsthat I have actually said I don't like.
So
That service has been great.
The other thing we did do is I have signed up for it's called Good Chop.
(20:55):
It's a meat box delivery where you can pick out all the meats you want and you can thenwhat I've done is I've taken all of the meat I have put it into chat GPT and I've said,
hey, can you give me a meal plan for four out of my seven days making it like 20 minutesof
prep and cook time total if possible and keeping it roughly in like a set calorie rangeish.
(21:21):
And it actually pops out, it'll pop out like your meal plan, all the ingredients you need.
And it'll also give you the links to the recipes.
And I started doing more of and then my husband started to do it too.
And sometimes, you know, he's done it and
Sure, like sometimes I don't get the meals I want to use necessarily, but I don't have towaste the time thinking about it anymore.
(21:48):
So that's a different free hack you can use.
And yeah.
also used routines because you don't have to think about certain things.
And it's been, you know, I didn't have a great routine around like cleaning up.
And there are a few things like we talk about the balance of self care and perfection andsome of those things.
(22:10):
So there are, there are some things that are like, I know this is a non-negotiable for me.
And then there's other things where I'm like, okay, I'm in a season.
And I'm always checking with myself.
What do I need now versus, what do I need?
Do I need to clean the kitchen up?
Am I just being lazy and not cleaning the kitchen up?
Or do I actually need to just go put myself to bed because I'm just feeling exhausted andthe kitchen will wait.
(22:32):
I will put the food away and I will leave the kitchen a mess.
And I get up the next morning and I will clean it up before our household manager comes.
That's not something that my household manager comes in and cleans up.
I definitely still do things myself.
The other thing as a parent that I have found very helpful,
as far as routines is putting my children on specific routines like quiet time, becauseI've got young kids.
(22:56):
So quiet time and then having a morning basket where if I, because I like to read in themorning and when I get up and I do some reading in the morning, I tend to have a better
day.
Well, I was finding that I didn't have any time for it because I would get up, my kidswould get up at the same time because maybe they were up late or they would get up through
the night.
And so by having a morning basket that they know that mom's reading is a non-negotiable, Iget to go color and I have coloring and just activities that they like to do in there.
(23:23):
So they go pull the morning basket, I pull the morning basket out for them, they do theiractivities, and then I get to do my reading and the things that I need to do.
So we're doing concurrent self-care.
And then just simple things with the toys has been another thing that's been a big changer
It's also teaching them good habits for their own self care in the future of you'reallowed to take time for yourself and be quiet, which I think is important to teach future
(23:51):
generations.
It's not all about go go go.
don't think you can teach it unless you're modeling it.
I think if you're modeling something different, they're going to listen to what you'redoing and not what you're saying
I would also say that this same thing bleeds into our work.
Because if I am an example of as a leader of taking time, specifically a female leader, oftaking time for myself, taking time off of work, not working 60 hours, intending to my
(24:24):
personal life, and it doesn't necessarily even mean that you have children, your personallife could, it's just whatever it is for you.
if we're modeling that behavior to everyone else around us, one, it sets healthyboundaries, I think, and two, it teaches them that they also can do the same thing for
themselves.
And it almost, in a sense, gives permission that they can do it.
(24:46):
Not that I think they need the permission, but I think sometimes they just sort ofinherently people want the permission.
I think
It's not just true for the kiddos.
It's also true for everybody around us in our work lives.
Well, I have a perfect example of that.
started working out and started like, that's been within the last three months where I'vejust started to like make this major, like I need to start eating healthy and I need to
(25:08):
start working out because it's impacting my brain and it's just impacting my ability toshow up in the way that I need to do in my work and my home.
just like, want to, so I got a walking pad.
Hmm.
thing you know, got a question from another team member, can I get a walking pad?
And now if you walk around our office, the vast majority of people are working out andwalking.
(25:29):
like my daughter made cupcakes the other day and I'm like, I don't know how many peopleare going to eat those because a lot of the people in the office right now are really
focused on making sure that they're eating healthy.
And it started with me and I didn't say anything to anybody.
wasn't like come along with me on this journey.
was just like, you start modeling those things.
And I think that we sometimes
forget that you don't have to be in a leadership position to impact that.
(25:52):
You can lead those things from any position in any seat.
Yeah, I think that's incredibly important.
creating that culture, I think a lot of people feel less empowered if they're quoteunquote at the bottom, ranked rank bottom.
And I say quote unquote because I, depending on your culture, rank may not even be inexistence, but I think inherently it's an unspoken thing that does exist.
(26:17):
And wherever you are, people...
could just model after your behavior and that is in and of itself leading the culture intoa different way.
And I think that's incredibly important for folks to know that regardless of your positionor rank or whatnot, you can influence change in small ways that can become big ways.
yeah.
inspired by your team all the time.
(26:37):
There are so many things that I have been like, I need to do that.
They're eating healthy or they're doing this thing and it's not necessarily even justeating healthy.
It could be a system for how they're organizing their email.
The number of things that I have learned from different employees over the years for likehow they get, they'll get something done and I'll be like, okay, how did you do that?
And I'll sit and watch what they did.
(26:57):
it was like, so like anybody can influence people, become an expert at where you're at andlike,
focus on becoming an expert and don't worry about your rank.
That's how I got where I am is I literally just started learning everything I could fromeverybody around me and then started moving up.
I was moved up within another company before I ended up starting my own.
(27:19):
And people within our company have done the same.
I've had people that have moved up fairly quickly because they just kept learning thingsand kept, you know, absorbing things.
That is probably one of the things about the construction industry that I love the most.
Hmm.
I think that there's a lot of opportunity.
doesn't necessarily matter based on where your background is.
You can move up if you're smart and you engage and you learn things.
(27:44):
You don't need a bachelor's degree in engineering to move up within a constructioncompany.
You don't need to have a doctorate to move up within the construction company.
Well, and would also argue that a lot of that, societally, is also changing where peopleare recognizing value that isn't 100 % attached to academia.
I say that as somebody who would, if opportunity presented itself, I would probably be apermanent student.
(28:10):
So I mean, I hold a ton of value for that.
But I also, you know, I watched my mother, she was different industry, but
She never achieved a bachelor's degree or any type of college education at all, but shecontinued to progress her career and she was valued for her 40 years of experience in the
industry because that was very important.
(28:31):
And I think this industry specifically, there's a lot of recognition of you don'tnecessarily need the bachelor's degree, the master's degree, the PhD, the whatever in
order to have a successful career in this industry.
There are lots of different roles and opportunities and that's
part of what this whole series is about is there are opportunities here, whether you havea degree, whether you have an apprenticeship, whether you just have 40 years of experience
(28:55):
at something, it can show up in this industry and be valued and useful and help.
And I think that's really one of the key pieces that I love about this industry is there'sopportunity for pretty much anyone, in my opinion.
When it comes to
equity for women specifically in this industry.
Is there anything that comes to mind that you think is most needed?
(29:17):
I think, because I've talked to Chris a little bit about this, so Chris has my right hand,and I've talked to Chris a little bit about this, because we're going to eventually sit
down and have a little conversation.
We've talked about what it is ahead of women in construction.
We're just kind of trying to understand what are the challenges?
And one of the things that we have been
(29:39):
talking through is you will show up on a customer's doorstep as a female and we still likeshe's constantly getting like you're going to be the person who's going to do my material
selection.
You're going to climb on my roof.
You're going to do this.
And what one of the things that we have had to do is we have had to become way better thanthe men around us in order to actually be taken seriously.
(29:59):
And I think that for us, it's it's there's been a little bit.
I don't know.
for me necessarily, because I think I've been through, but I think there's a little bit oftrauma that can happen for women having to go through and just constantly feeling like
you're not good enough, you're young, because Karissa is not only a female, she's youngand she's moved up and she's like, it's very clear if you're coming to our company that
(30:22):
Karissa is, Abe and I is right hand, she knows everything and can, you know.
she knows a lot and she's young and she's female and so she's had to do a lot and had alot of things thrown at her from others not from Abe or I but like from others just like
that she's had to had to work through
Mm.
(30:43):
I, it's as though there's a different expectation when a woman shows up that they're notcapable of, or they're differently capable somehow.
I mean, part of that, would say probably comes from a history of like largely womenhaven't been doing this work.
And so there's still this assumption that they are not capable, but also their newapprentices rolling out every day.
(31:07):
and they could be male or female and they're equally capable in my opinion of learning andlearning is what we know anybody can do that in my opinion.
yeah, yes, I think in different especially different parts of the industry I would sayI've seen that more so than less so depending but yeah 100 %
climbing around on a roof is probably one of the ones where you're going to see it themost.
(31:28):
It's not necessarily, you know, framing might be another one where you see a lot of like,I have a friend who's just started her own company and she's she frames so she literally
builds a house from scratch.
so like that you don't see a lot of that and there's also so yeah.
it's funny.
There's a there is a Instagram TikToker.
(31:52):
I forget which one.
I don't really TikTok.
But she it is a roofing company that they do videos and they, you know, they I wouldn'tsay they're necessarily what I would assume a construction worker doing roofing would be
dressed as.
They're definitely dressed in like tank tops.
Anyway, I would think they would want to be a little more protected.
(32:13):
so that's my only thing of like, aren't you gonna like scratch yourself or I don't know,hurt yourself or whatever.
aside from the PPE perspective I have on those videos, it's they're just women out theredoing roofing and they're doing an incredible job.
And the comments that people make on those videos about trying to delegitimize the workthey're doing.
(32:35):
I'm like,
Oh, they could probably throw up that roof faster than you can.
Shut your face.
Like, stop it.
the other thing is, in my experience, women and specifically women in construction, theytend to actually listen more to them than the men.
So the men think that we know how to install something correctly.
The women tend to read the instructor or be actually like, you're telling me that I needto put this offset slightly different or I need to do something slightly different.
(32:59):
so I was just talking to another one of our team members about like, why it's so importantfor women to be a part of construction, because we bring a different angle.
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Maybe someday I'll share with you the video my dad took of me trying to put the roof onour little shed in the back.
It's not it's it's entertaining.
There's a lot of cussing.
(33:21):
I think I flipped him off a few times because I he I forget why he didn't end up doing itand probably he's like age like you're younger get up there and I was like, great, even
though I am afraid of heights, but I still got up there and did it.
So it's kind of funny and entertaining that my little tiny experience in that was not myfavorite.
anybody who's doing roofing, like, thank you.
(33:43):
Thinking back to your early days in the industry, curious if there's a piece of advice youwould give yourself.
That's a really good question.
I was so naive.
was like, I came in and I was just like, I'm just going to change this whole industry.
(34:03):
I'm going to just like, and I did so many silly things.
I put this piece of reglet because I was not raised like...
driving construction equipment and like doing that.
I was the girl that you wouldn't trust with any of those things.
I dropped the riding lawnmower over a retaining wall because I mowed a hill in the correctdirection.
(34:25):
And then the next day, I started the same lawnmower on fire.
And so after that, I was banned.
So like when my family found out that I was opening a construction company, they werelike, you're doing what?
And not only that, yeah, so anyways,
So I did a lot of things though that were indicative of someone who does not understandhow, how do you load a truck?
(34:50):
How do you strap things down?
How do you attach a trailer to a truck in a way that's not going to make it fall off?
like, so I did, I had so many things like I had, I called Abraham crying so many timesjust being like, I just did this and he'd be like, fix it, figure it out.
Yeah, I mean, that's learning.
(35:11):
learning.
I just bless him for not like coming to my rescue and just for kind of saying like, figureit out because I was actually then able to realize, I actually can figure these things
out.
Yeah, you know, I, it's funny.
I've probably done similar ridiculous things and my husband has reacted very similarly tome.
(35:31):
Just recently last week we had a pipe problem in our garage and we've had it like once ayear where our pipe overflows in the garage.
It's the one that the sink drains into and our laundry and blah, blah.
Anyway.
It's funny, my husband looks at me he goes, well, you can crawl under the house.
I was like, you're right, I could.
(35:52):
I have before I spent my childhood crawling under the house helping my dad because I wasthe one that fit.
And I looked at him like, but I don't want to.
I don't want to right now.
So you're gonna go and I'm going to do all this stuff up here and run around.
And so like we did it together.
And we're like running around trying to fix it.
And, you know, so I think I find those moments enjoyable with him where we're
(36:14):
both doing something to like fix our home or build something together and we always learnsomething because I have I have better carpentry skills than he does, make no mistake.
But when it comes to breaking apart something that's mechanical, and putting it backtogether or fixing it, he he's definitely the winner in that one.
And so we try to lean on each other's skills and we argue about it sometimes but
(36:36):
We've learned so much, I think, from each other in that regard.
And same thing in my construction roles.
I've learned so much from the people that I've worked alongside.
And just being able to ask questions and be a little bit humble about it, knowing that youdon't know everything.
And you might have a better idea, but knowing when is the right time to bring that forwardalso is important.
(36:59):
So it's pretty fun.
Do you think if you had some advice for your younger self that you would have heeded it atall or listened to it or you just would have mowed on and done your thing?
you
I don't think I would have needed any advice for myself.
I think if I had advice for my younger self, would probably be, you are so much morecapable than you think you are.
(37:22):
Before you start asking for help, see if you can figure it out yourself.
That's probably what I would tell myself is like, you don't need to lie.
Just like I tell my three year old, try to put your shirt on.
Well, and all of those quote unquote failures that come from trying teach us way more thanall of our successes, in my opinion.
(37:47):
as we get towards the end of this, are there other women currently in the industry or inthe past that you've been associated with that you want to?
give a shout out to about their work and what they've done.
Yeah, absolutely.
So Katie Halverson is the person who is starting her own company and doing all of her ownstuff.
Just really proud of her for doing that.
(38:08):
Pam Capetto is an incredible design build person here in the Twin Cities who has just donean amazing job.
And then Karissa has my right hand, Karissa Hagen is just.
really an inspiration even for me as the CEO of this company just watching how hard shehas worked and just watching her brain work is just amazing because she's really balanced.
(38:32):
You talked about when do you say something and when do you not say something.
She's got really great ideas and she's really good at bringing them up at just the righttime.
awesome.
That's awesome.
Your executive assistant's name is Lucille, correct?
So I'm going to give my own little shout out to Lucille.
And because when I first started interacting with her, she came right out and was like,No, she's got kids.
(38:55):
She can't do this on the weekend.
And she just held the line for you.
And I feel like people are weird about doing that.
And I love that she did that.
She was like, No, no, no.
Like, badass.
Love it.
So
is actually another person that should receive a massive shout out because there are somany things that would not happen in this company if it wasn't for Lucille.
(39:17):
So Lucille has been an unbelievable asset.
I haven't met her yet actually other than an email, but she just seems great.
So that's awesome.
Well, any final thoughts you want to add or things we didn't talk about that you, youknow?
just a massive thank you.
Thank you for dedicating your time to do this and for just like this is not an easy thingthat you're doing and interviewing all of these women and getting all these voices out
(39:43):
there and I just I just want to say thank you for everything you're doing to elevate womenin construction and just what you're doing so.
thanks.
I appreciate that.
And I really appreciate you taking time to be here with us today.
Super excited to share your episode with everybody and all the rest of them to come.
So again, thanks so much for joining us today.
Thank you for having me.
(40:09):
Thank you for tuning in to today's episode of The Construction Cafe.
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(40:33):
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Let's keep building together.
Welcome to the Construction Cafe, where the buzz of the construction industry meets thewarmth of a friendly conversation.
I'm your host, Tristen Magallanes.
Join me at our virtual cafe as we explore the foundations of construction culture, sip oncutting edge concepts, and amplify the unspoken voices in our industry.
So grab a cup of your favorite beverage, pull up a seat, and let's build more than juststructures, let's build connections.
(00:33):
This is the Construction Cafe.
welcome back to the Construction Cafe.
We again continuing our amazing celebration of Women in Construction Week.
(00:54):
today we are joined by Sarah Arndt.
Sarah, welcome to the show.
I really appreciate it.
Well, thanks for having me on.
It's a pleasure to be here.
Yeah, so Sarah, tell us a little bit about your company, your role, and anything else youwant to add to that.
Yeah, so I'm CEO of Ardmor Construction.
(01:15):
We service southern Minnesota, western Wisconsin, and northern Iowa.
And we're a seven to eight figure, upper seven, lower eight figure business.
And we specialize in exterior trades.
So roofing, siding, windows, gutters, if it's the exterior of your home, and thencommercial projects.
(01:36):
Okay.
And how long have you been in that role?
I started Ardmor eight years ago now.
were you already in the construction industry prior to that?
was in the construction industry for about three years before I started my own company.
Prior to that, I was actually a nurse.
So I went from a female-dominated field to the male-dominated field of construction.
(02:00):
So I wish Victoria, the other person who often helps co-host was on here because we'vetalked a lot about how a lot of folks come from a different background into this industry.
And interestingly enough, a lot of what is learned in other industries or other paths ofstudy are incredibly relevant and useful into the success of their roles in this industry.
(02:25):
So I didn't actually know that and I think that's super incredible.
have several other nurse friends who have left nursing to do other things and the skillsthey learn in that is pretty incredible.
I think the critical thinking skill is what I, because no matter where you go fromnursing, they really work on teaching you how to critically think.
(02:46):
And I think that that skill is something that's very much valued within construction.
It's not a skill that everybody has, which has allowed me to move, obviously fairlyquickly to a space where I could start and run a pretty successful construction company.
So smaller compared to like the big guys, but.
Well, I think we all have the ability to choose how we measure success and I don't thinkeveryone's measure of success is being a multi-billion dollar company, right?
(03:14):
Like we all have our own choice.
I don't know that I would ever want to own a multi-billion dollar company.
No, billions of problems.
Billions of dollars worth of problems.
So why construction?
Well, my boyfriend at the time, and now my husband, was working in construction and I hadwatched my parents run businesses together.
(03:36):
So my parents were married, ran a resort together, went and taught in Alaska together.
So kind of the bug to do some wild things is just kind of in my family.
And so I guess I really wanted to try working with him to see what that would do, if itwould result in us.
It was either going to make us or break us.
(03:58):
Yeah, I was gonna say, hmm, couples therapy or just open a business?
Yep.
Yep.
You have to work through all your issues if you're going to work, if you're going to own abusiness together.
absolutely.
I also think there's just this sense of like family pride that you create in creating abusiness together that is very much, I think a part of construction culture still.
(04:23):
And I kind of love that.
So that's super kind of cool.
so going back eight years, well,
eight years of your company being in existence, what's been some of the biggest sort ofchallenges and frustrations you faced?
We faced a lot of different challenges.
(04:44):
We've faced a lot of legislative challenges since we've gotten into this industry from thestandpoint that a lot has changed in the industry from everybody, including all your sales
reps being 1099 to then now having to have them be W2.
We work with a lot of insurance companies and obviously we're all seeing all over thenews, all the issues with insurance companies.
And I think it's just coming to light how big the issues with the insurance companies are.
(05:07):
And then you have the stigma of dealing with being in an industry that has a lot, there'sa lot of potential to make money and there's a lot of potential then for a lot of bad
actors.
so, you know, I think getting a reputation as being a company that does the right thinghas been really key to our success.
And then obviously all just the personnel things.
(05:28):
I didn't have management experience.
So I was a nurse, but I didn't have management experience.
So coming in and all of a sudden having, you know, 30, 40 employees and like learning howto manage people and learning it while you own your business.
like, it's a very expensive process.
Try and figure out, how do you build culture?
Like, how do you go about creating?
(05:50):
So all of those things, I think were some of the, the biggest challenges I've been justlearning to get the skills I needed myself as an owner.
So, yeah.
I would venture to argue though, you probably had more skills when it came to managingpeople than you realized having been a nurse and being like, different, it's different
(06:10):
context, sure.
But some of the, I think there's a lot of transferable skill sets there that you probablywere able to pick up on that like a lot faster maybe than others.
And that's probably helpful and useful.
What's something in the last eight years that you've loved most about this journey in theindustry?
I love creating.
(06:31):
So I love just being able to help people create amazing transformations.
And I just love the process of creating, whether it's creating a culture or creating aprocess or creating homes with people where we get to transform their homes or just like
that process for me is like, it just feeds my soul.
So.
that's awesome.
(06:51):
Does your husband feel the same about it?
My husband brings different skills.
So for him, it's very much about...
It's not as much of an art for him.
It's more of a science for him.
This is just how you do it.
Or is it like the passion for like, this is how I love doing it.
And yeah, so.
(07:12):
of cool.
It's kind of cool to have both though.
I think every company needs those different types of people who approach things in adifferent passionate way.
And some of it is behind the science, some of it's the passion for people and community orjust that pride in building something.
I know that's something that attracts me to the industry.
And I love driving past projects and saying I helped, I was part of that.
(07:37):
And that's
I love that about this industry and something I would say for women looking to eitherenter, come to this industry from other industries or just thinking about entering this
industry.
There's an immense sense of pride that you can get from this work and I think that'sreally important to acknowledge that that's here to offer.
Well, I think that, you know, highlighting women in construction, we need so manydifferent voices and there are not enough women yet in the construction industry and we're
(08:05):
still dealing with needing more of those outside perspectives.
And I think that it's, it's gotten a lot easier over the years.
And I think that we still need more women to join in to bring those perspectives.
And, and you're right.
Most of the women that I talk to it's, it's the creation that they, they love.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
(08:26):
And something else I'm thinking about, share, we took in preparation for this, we talked alittle bit and you're a mom and you own a construction company and you're a mom.
I would say a lot of people would think the first thought is like, how do do it all?
(08:47):
Well you don't.
But I think that's the best perspective and advice I've heard from somebody yet of like,you don't have to do it all.
And so how do you change that narrative and be different about that?
So I think it starts with an acceptance of, and this has been a process for me as I'veentered this industry and the hours that this industry can produce.
(09:10):
mean, you can make some great money in this industry.
And when I first started in this industry, I was like, okay, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna stilldo all the home stuff.
I'm gonna meal prep and I'm gonna work all the hours that this industry requires.
And I was for ride.
Yeah.
so I reached a point where I said, okay, what can I, and this was before, this was justafter we'd started Ardmor.
(09:34):
After I'd started Ardmor and there was nothing left to give.
And I'm like, okay, what can I hire out?
Because we didn't have a lot of money coming in.
We're still a startup.
And so I hired out my laundry and I hired out my cleaning.
And that was a massive game changer for me.
So it's been eight years and I have not done my laundry or my cleaning.
(09:58):
And that was the first like, when I'm talking to moms, I'm like, what's the like, arethere little things?
And then the next thing was doing meal delivery services.
I know you mentioned that that's something that has helped.
Yeah, it's and so we started with that.
And then when I got pregnant, had to, I realized that I had to create more systems andprocesses just in the business and just learn to trust people a little more because I have
(10:23):
tended to want to control everything.
And I realized that it was either going to be control everything or the illusion ofcontrolling everything.
Or the illusion of control or like I was going to actually, it was that or.
my family.
was that or being able to be present as a mom.
And I actually had not necessarily a normal like go have a kid, be on maternity leave.
(10:51):
was hiring people to have this plan, hired somebody, went into labor the next day, two anda half months early.
So my daughter spent
40 days in the NICU and I spent six hours a day in skin to skin contact with my childbecause that's just what you do when you have a kid in the NICU.
And I was still burning a lot.
(11:13):
I was still burning at both ends.
So I went into labor, had her at 11 p.m.
and was on the phone by seven a.m.
the next morning with everybody trying to figure out the emergency plan for what it wasgonna look like.
and then since then I've kind of been on an evolution of, when she was really little, wedidn't really want to hire much help because we're in the middle of COVID.
So not only did I have a child in the NICU, we had been on a ventilator, we were in themiddle of COVID.
(11:36):
So I didn't hire out a lot until she was like six months old.
And so I was just like fitting, you know, in between, I was on the phone while I was
Breastfeeding and doing the whole thing and working from home because that was just kindof the season that we were in and my husband Definitely and my team members definitely
stepped up There's no question.
(11:57):
There was there was no way I was controlling it gonna do everything in that time and now Ihave a I have an executive assistant and I have a household manager and so my household
manager is a nanny and then she also manages my house so everything from buying toiletpaper to
buying all the products to signing my child up for all the things that she needs, whetherit's Kumon training or whatever.
(12:23):
I have a three and a half year old daughter and I have a seven and a half year oldstepson.
And so she kind of holds the house together.
And then the other thing that she does that's just been incredible is she actually cooks.
So I come home to a meal in the evening.
Yeah.
And she's a phenomenal cook.
Yes, and I've stepped up.
Like I didn't start with that level because that was, I started with just someone watchingmy daughter and then I would get out of the house because I was going super crazy trying
(12:51):
to, I will tell you, as a parent, the hardest thing on the planet is trying to be a parentand work at the same time.
So when your kids are sick and you're trying to like work at the same time as being aparent, which, yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I've, I had a, I had a foster daughter through COVID, who obviously wasdoing school from home.
She was in fifth grade and it took a little bit, but we developed this sort of symbioticroutine of we would take lunch together and I would have breaks with her during her breaks
(13:22):
during class.
But it was really important for me to, because they were so isolated during that time, Ifelt it was very important for me to take the time to actually interface with her rather
than
holing up in my office all day and quote unquote working for her mental health sake.
And that was challenged to switch my brain gears on the dime to interact with her and thenhave to switch back into work and did that constantly.
(13:46):
But it's achievable.
It just takes, I think, conscious effort.
Well, the other piece that you mentioned there that I think that it's been huge for us,and I was just talking to our household manager because we have a new household manager
and it's routines.
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
create a routine that your kids know.
So like when I come home, my work phone goes away.
I'm the owner of the company.
(14:07):
I have two phones.
So I have a work phone and a personal phone.
And when I walk in the door, my work phone goes away and my personal phone is on.
And there are key people in the company that have my personal phone.
So if there is an emergency, they will reach out to my personal phone.
If it's not an emergency, are deputized with like, these are the things you can solve.
(14:28):
You know what things you can't
You call me if there's an emergency and then we use screens if it's like a true emergency.
My daughter gets some screen time and we just deal with it because that happens.
It's life and I think sometimes as women we are so hard on ourselves.
Like we have to have this perfectly clean house.
We have to be the perfect wife.
We have to be the perfect mother.
And it's, you know, you look at this, this image that everybody has on social media andyou're like, how do they do it?
(14:53):
Well, they don't do it all.
You know, it's not real.
let's, let's be honest about that.
You're getting what they want you to see on social media and reality check is majority ofthat is not real.
And I, I've also had to level with myself.
I had this thought yesterday, I walked into my garage to change the laundry.
(15:18):
And I looked around and I went, my garage is a
freaking mess right now and it causes a little bit of anxiety for me.
But then I walked in the house and I looked at my dogs.
I was like, the garage can wait.
And I went outside and played with my dogs because not only is that important for them andthem not being crazy cattle dogs and getting exercise, but it also helps me.
(15:42):
There's a benefit to me to checking myself and just enjoying life.
And same thing with with all the kiddos we've had in our care.
Recognizing that my interaction with them is not as just it's a very important for them.
It's also important for me.
And I think women often forget that we are entitled to being a little selfish sometimes,and taking care of ourselves in whatever way we need to.
(16:09):
It's very easy to not do that.
And I
to flip that.
I've had to say, if I have nothing to give, it is not selfish to take care of myself.
Because if I'm trying to pull from an empty well, or if I'm trying to pull from an emptySarah, what is going to come out is not pretty.
So the most loving thing that I can do for my family is sometimes, I had this, this was myyesterday, yesterday, was, my husband this morning was like.
(16:39):
Well, you're disconnected.
I was disconnected for half an afternoon and I needed it because I couldn't show up as theCEO.
If I show up in the office having a bad day, every person around me is going to have a badday and now I'm going to bring that home to my children and it's like, it's not good.
So I have to say it's the most loving thing that I can do for other people to take care ofmyself.
(17:03):
Yeah, last year, I can't remember what month it was.
I was reaching both personally and professionally.
had a we had a foster kiddo in our care was just exceptionally difficult, not the childhimself.
I don't ever want to say that they themselves as individuals are difficult.
But a lot of what we were dealing with was challenging for us of some of the trauma wewere trying to help him through.
(17:27):
navigating different conversations, cultural differences.
And I also was working a lot of hours and traveling a lot and doing all these things.
And I kind of hit burnout, like a level of burnout.
And I was recognizing it was happening.
And I looked at my husband, and I said, I know this might not seem fair of me to ask.
(17:48):
But do you mind if I just go take three days and sit on a beach?
And
resoundingly, he's absolutely go for it.
I got everything here.
And so with the points I had, I booked myself a flight to a resort in Mexico and literallydidn't do anything other than sit and read on the beach for three days because that's what
(18:10):
I needed.
And I came back and I was a better person for it.
And I jumped right back into things and I felt better.
sometimes, and maybe your answer isn't, you know, going to the beach in Mexico, it mightbe
going to a cabin or just going to a friend's house and something.
It could be a lot of things.
Recognizing that that's what you need and taking that time for it and ensuring that you'resurrounded by people who support those decisions I think is really, important.
(18:38):
Yeah.
to normalize it.
I think that that needs to be the normal.
And actually my husband and I both have had to do that.
We both had to look at each other and he's had to say, I need a weekend.
And I'm like, okay, we will do whatever we have to do to make sure you have a weekend tojust go.
If you need to go, because like if we are here, we own our business, the business willfind us.
(18:58):
If we are, it just will.
That's just, if there's, if it needs us, it's going to find us.
And so, yeah.
when I live back to back to like the like how this piece of this conversation started islike the hacks and sort of offloading some of some of the load.
And not everybody has the access to financially hiring help necessarily.
(19:22):
And I recognize that.
But there's a lot of other things that we can learn from each other.
So, for instance, I go, I'm a dork.
At the start of the year, I went through my Amazon household things that I commonly buy,and I preset all of it on subscribe and save auto deliveries.
(19:45):
So the key things in my household I just don't even think about, and they automaticallyjust show up.
And everybody in the house knows where everything goes, and whomever gets the deliveryputs it away.
And that alone...
something very small, but like I never have to worry about if there's toilet paper in thehouse.
I never have to think if, you know, we have cleaning stuff or like just stuff like that.
(20:07):
And it might seem small, but I just don't have to think about it anymore.
And it
other things that you have done that have that have been major like because you talkedabout the meals that you do meals are there other things that you've done?
do do factor meals.
We've tried other different types of meal services in the past, and that's just one wehappen to like and it facilitates our life.
(20:32):
And we actually did it initially to stop using DoorDash.
And it's not only saved us money, but it saved us a lot of time.
And of the year plus we've been using it, not even kidding, there's only been two mealsthat I have actually said I don't like.
So
That service has been great.
The other thing we did do is I have signed up for it's called Good Chop.
(20:55):
It's a meat box delivery where you can pick out all the meats you want and you can thenwhat I've done is I've taken all of the meat I have put it into chat GPT and I've said,
hey, can you give me a meal plan for four out of my seven days making it like 20 minutesof
prep and cook time total if possible and keeping it roughly in like a set calorie rangeish.
(21:21):
And it actually pops out, it'll pop out like your meal plan, all the ingredients you need.
And it'll also give you the links to the recipes.
And I started doing more of and then my husband started to do it too.
And sometimes, you know, he's done it and
Sure, like sometimes I don't get the meals I want to use necessarily, but I don't have towaste the time thinking about it anymore.
(21:48):
So that's a different free hack you can use.
And yeah.
also used routines because you don't have to think about certain things.
And it's been, you know, I didn't have a great routine around like cleaning up.
And there are a few things like we talk about the balance of self care and perfection andsome of those things.
(22:10):
So there are, there are some things that are like, I know this is a non-negotiable for me.
And then there's other things where I'm like, okay, I'm in a season.
And I'm always checking with myself.
What do I need now versus, what do I need?
Do I need to clean the kitchen up?
Am I just being lazy and not cleaning the kitchen up?
Or do I actually need to just go put myself to bed because I'm just feeling exhausted andthe kitchen will wait.
(22:32):
I will put the food away and I will leave the kitchen a mess.
And I get up the next morning and I will clean it up before our household manager comes.
That's not something that my household manager comes in and cleans up.
I definitely still do things myself.
The other thing as a parent that I have found very helpful,
as far as routines is putting my children on specific routines like quiet time, becauseI've got young kids.
(22:56):
So quiet time and then having a morning basket where if I, because I like to read in themorning and when I get up and I do some reading in the morning, I tend to have a better
day.
Well, I was finding that I didn't have any time for it because I would get up, my kidswould get up at the same time because maybe they were up late or they would get up through
the night.
And so by having a morning basket that they know that mom's reading is a non-negotiable, Iget to go color and I have coloring and just activities that they like to do in there.
(23:23):
So they go pull the morning basket, I pull the morning basket out for them, they do theiractivities, and then I get to do my reading and the things that I need to do.
So we're doing concurrent self-care.
And then just simple things with the toys has been another thing that's been a big changer
It's also teaching them good habits for their own self care in the future of you'reallowed to take time for yourself and be quiet, which I think is important to teach future
(23:51):
generations.
It's not all about go go go.
don't think you can teach it unless you're modeling it.
I think if you're modeling something different, they're going to listen to what you'redoing and not what you're saying
I would also say that this same thing bleeds into our work.
Because if I am an example of as a leader of taking time, specifically a female leader, oftaking time for myself, taking time off of work, not working 60 hours, intending to my
(24:24):
personal life, and it doesn't necessarily even mean that you have children, your personallife could, it's just whatever it is for you.
if we're modeling that behavior to everyone else around us, one, it sets healthyboundaries, I think, and two, it teaches them that they also can do the same thing for
themselves.
And it almost, in a sense, gives permission that they can do it.
(24:46):
Not that I think they need the permission, but I think sometimes they just sort ofinherently people want the permission.
I think
It's not just true for the kiddos.
It's also true for everybody around us in our work lives.
Well, I have a perfect example of that.
started working out and started like, that's been within the last three months where I'vejust started to like make this major, like I need to start eating healthy and I need to
(25:08):
start working out because it's impacting my brain and it's just impacting my ability toshow up in the way that I need to do in my work and my home.
just like, want to, so I got a walking pad.
Hmm.
thing you know, got a question from another team member, can I get a walking pad?
And now if you walk around our office, the vast majority of people are working out andwalking.
(25:29):
like my daughter made cupcakes the other day and I'm like, I don't know how many peopleare going to eat those because a lot of the people in the office right now are really
focused on making sure that they're eating healthy.
And it started with me and I didn't say anything to anybody.
wasn't like come along with me on this journey.
was just like, you start modeling those things.
And I think that we sometimes
forget that you don't have to be in a leadership position to impact that.
(25:52):
You can lead those things from any position in any seat.
Yeah, I think that's incredibly important.
creating that culture, I think a lot of people feel less empowered if they're quoteunquote at the bottom, ranked rank bottom.
And I say quote unquote because I, depending on your culture, rank may not even be inexistence, but I think inherently it's an unspoken thing that does exist.
(26:17):
And wherever you are, people...
could just model after your behavior and that is in and of itself leading the culture intoa different way.
And I think that's incredibly important for folks to know that regardless of your positionor rank or whatnot, you can influence change in small ways that can become big ways.
yeah.
inspired by your team all the time.
(26:37):
There are so many things that I have been like, I need to do that.
They're eating healthy or they're doing this thing and it's not necessarily even justeating healthy.
It could be a system for how they're organizing their email.
The number of things that I have learned from different employees over the years for likehow they get, they'll get something done and I'll be like, okay, how did you do that?
And I'll sit and watch what they did.
(26:57):
it was like, so like anybody can influence people, become an expert at where you're at andlike,
focus on becoming an expert and don't worry about your rank.
That's how I got where I am is I literally just started learning everything I could fromeverybody around me and then started moving up.
I was moved up within another company before I ended up starting my own.
(27:19):
And people within our company have done the same.
I've had people that have moved up fairly quickly because they just kept learning thingsand kept, you know, absorbing things.
That is probably one of the things about the construction industry that I love the most.
Hmm.
I think that there's a lot of opportunity.
doesn't necessarily matter based on where your background is.
You can move up if you're smart and you engage and you learn things.
(27:44):
You don't need a bachelor's degree in engineering to move up within a constructioncompany.
You don't need to have a doctorate to move up within the construction company.
Well, and would also argue that a lot of that, societally, is also changing where peopleare recognizing value that isn't 100 % attached to academia.
I say that as somebody who would, if opportunity presented itself, I would probably be apermanent student.
(28:10):
So I mean, I hold a ton of value for that.
But I also, you know, I watched my mother, she was different industry, but
She never achieved a bachelor's degree or any type of college education at all, but shecontinued to progress her career and she was valued for her 40 years of experience in the
industry because that was very important.
(28:31):
And I think this industry specifically, there's a lot of recognition of you don'tnecessarily need the bachelor's degree, the master's degree, the PhD, the whatever in
order to have a successful career in this industry.
There are lots of different roles and opportunities and that's
part of what this whole series is about is there are opportunities here, whether you havea degree, whether you have an apprenticeship, whether you just have 40 years of experience
(28:55):
at something, it can show up in this industry and be valued and useful and help.
And I think that's really one of the key pieces that I love about this industry is there'sopportunity for pretty much anyone, in my opinion.
When it comes to
equity for women specifically in this industry.
Is there anything that comes to mind that you think is most needed?
(29:17):
I think, because I've talked to Chris a little bit about this, so Chris has my right hand,and I've talked to Chris a little bit about this, because we're going to eventually sit
down and have a little conversation.
We've talked about what it is ahead of women in construction.
We're just kind of trying to understand what are the challenges?
And one of the things that we have been
(29:39):
talking through is you will show up on a customer's doorstep as a female and we still likeshe's constantly getting like you're going to be the person who's going to do my material
selection.
You're going to climb on my roof.
You're going to do this.
And what one of the things that we have had to do is we have had to become way better thanthe men around us in order to actually be taken seriously.
(29:59):
And I think that for us, it's it's there's been a little bit.
I don't know.
for me necessarily, because I think I've been through, but I think there's a little bit oftrauma that can happen for women having to go through and just constantly feeling like
you're not good enough, you're young, because Karissa is not only a female, she's youngand she's moved up and she's like, it's very clear if you're coming to our company that
(30:22):
Karissa is, Abe and I is right hand, she knows everything and can, you know.
she knows a lot and she's young and she's female and so she's had to do a lot and had alot of things thrown at her from others not from Abe or I but like from others just like
that she's had to had to work through
Mm.
(30:43):
I, it's as though there's a different expectation when a woman shows up that they're notcapable of, or they're differently capable somehow.
I mean, part of that, would say probably comes from a history of like largely womenhaven't been doing this work.
And so there's still this assumption that they are not capable, but also their newapprentices rolling out every day.
(31:07):
and they could be male or female and they're equally capable in my opinion of learning andlearning is what we know anybody can do that in my opinion.
yeah, yes, I think in different especially different parts of the industry I would sayI've seen that more so than less so depending but yeah 100 %
climbing around on a roof is probably one of the ones where you're going to see it themost.
(31:28):
It's not necessarily, you know, framing might be another one where you see a lot of like,I have a friend who's just started her own company and she's she frames so she literally
builds a house from scratch.
so like that you don't see a lot of that and there's also so yeah.
it's funny.
There's a there is a Instagram TikToker.
(31:52):
I forget which one.
I don't really TikTok.
But she it is a roofing company that they do videos and they, you know, they I wouldn'tsay they're necessarily what I would assume a construction worker doing roofing would be
dressed as.
They're definitely dressed in like tank tops.
Anyway, I would think they would want to be a little more protected.
(32:13):
so that's my only thing of like, aren't you gonna like scratch yourself or I don't know,hurt yourself or whatever.
aside from the PPE perspective I have on those videos, it's they're just women out theredoing roofing and they're doing an incredible job.
And the comments that people make on those videos about trying to delegitimize the workthey're doing.
(32:35):
I'm like,
Oh, they could probably throw up that roof faster than you can.
Shut your face.
Like, stop it.
the other thing is, in my experience, women and specifically women in construction, theytend to actually listen more to them than the men.
So the men think that we know how to install something correctly.
The women tend to read the instructor or be actually like, you're telling me that I needto put this offset slightly different or I need to do something slightly different.
(32:59):
so I was just talking to another one of our team members about like, why it's so importantfor women to be a part of construction, because we bring a different angle.
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Maybe someday I'll share with you the video my dad took of me trying to put the roof onour little shed in the back.
It's not it's it's entertaining.
There's a lot of cussing.
(33:21):
I think I flipped him off a few times because I he I forget why he didn't end up doing itand probably he's like age like you're younger get up there and I was like, great, even
though I am afraid of heights, but I still got up there and did it.
So it's kind of funny and entertaining that my little tiny experience in that was not myfavorite.
anybody who's doing roofing, like, thank you.
(33:43):
Thinking back to your early days in the industry, curious if there's a piece of advice youwould give yourself.
That's a really good question.
I was so naive.
was like, I came in and I was just like, I'm just going to change this whole industry.
(34:03):
I'm going to just like, and I did so many silly things.
I put this piece of reglet because I was not raised like...
driving construction equipment and like doing that.
I was the girl that you wouldn't trust with any of those things.
I dropped the riding lawnmower over a retaining wall because I mowed a hill in the correctdirection.
(34:25):
And then the next day, I started the same lawnmower on fire.
And so after that, I was banned.
So like when my family found out that I was opening a construction company, they werelike, you're doing what?
And not only that, yeah, so anyways,
So I did a lot of things though that were indicative of someone who does not understandhow, how do you load a truck?
(34:50):
How do you strap things down?
How do you attach a trailer to a truck in a way that's not going to make it fall off?
like, so I did, I had so many things like I had, I called Abraham crying so many timesjust being like, I just did this and he'd be like, fix it, figure it out.
Yeah, I mean, that's learning.
(35:11):
learning.
I just bless him for not like coming to my rescue and just for kind of saying like, figureit out because I was actually then able to realize, I actually can figure these things
out.
Yeah, you know, I, it's funny.
I've probably done similar ridiculous things and my husband has reacted very similarly tome.
(35:31):
Just recently last week we had a pipe problem in our garage and we've had it like once ayear where our pipe overflows in the garage.
It's the one that the sink drains into and our laundry and blah, blah.
Anyway.
It's funny, my husband looks at me he goes, well, you can crawl under the house.
I was like, you're right, I could.
(35:52):
I have before I spent my childhood crawling under the house helping my dad because I wasthe one that fit.
And I looked at him like, but I don't want to.
I don't want to right now.
So you're gonna go and I'm going to do all this stuff up here and run around.
And so like we did it together.
And we're like running around trying to fix it.
And, you know, so I think I find those moments enjoyable with him where we're
(36:14):
both doing something to like fix our home or build something together and we always learnsomething because I have I have better carpentry skills than he does, make no mistake.
But when it comes to breaking apart something that's mechanical, and putting it backtogether or fixing it, he he's definitely the winner in that one.
And so we try to lean on each other's skills and we argue about it sometimes but
(36:36):
We've learned so much, I think, from each other in that regard.
And same thing in my construction roles.
I've learned so much from the people that I've worked alongside.
And just being able to ask questions and be a little bit humble about it, knowing that youdon't know everything.
And you might have a better idea, but knowing when is the right time to bring that forwardalso is important.
(36:59):
So it's pretty fun.
Do you think if you had some advice for your younger self that you would have heeded it atall or listened to it or you just would have mowed on and done your thing?
you
I don't think I would have needed any advice for myself.
I think if I had advice for my younger self, would probably be, you are so much morecapable than you think you are.
(37:22):
Before you start asking for help, see if you can figure it out yourself.
That's probably what I would tell myself is like, you don't need to lie.
Just like I tell my three year old, try to put your shirt on.
Well, and all of those quote unquote failures that come from trying teach us way more thanall of our successes, in my opinion.
(37:47):
as we get towards the end of this, are there other women currently in the industry or inthe past that you've been associated with that you want to?
give a shout out to about their work and what they've done.
Yeah, absolutely.
So Katie Halverson is the person who is starting her own company and doing all of her ownstuff.
Just really proud of her for doing that.
(38:08):
Pam Capetto is an incredible design build person here in the Twin Cities who has just donean amazing job.
And then Karissa has my right hand, Karissa Hagen is just.
really an inspiration even for me as the CEO of this company just watching how hard shehas worked and just watching her brain work is just amazing because she's really balanced.
(38:32):
You talked about when do you say something and when do you not say something.
She's got really great ideas and she's really good at bringing them up at just the righttime.
awesome.
That's awesome.
Your executive assistant's name is Lucille, correct?
So I'm going to give my own little shout out to Lucille.
And because when I first started interacting with her, she came right out and was like,No, she's got kids.
(38:55):
She can't do this on the weekend.
And she just held the line for you.
And I feel like people are weird about doing that.
And I love that she did that.
She was like, No, no, no.
Like, badass.
Love it.
So
is actually another person that should receive a massive shout out because there are somany things that would not happen in this company if it wasn't for Lucille.
(39:17):
So Lucille has been an unbelievable asset.
I haven't met her yet actually other than an email, but she just seems great.
So that's awesome.
Well, any final thoughts you want to add or things we didn't talk about that you, youknow?
just a massive thank you.
Thank you for dedicating your time to do this and for just like this is not an easy thingthat you're doing and interviewing all of these women and getting all these voices out
(39:43):
there and I just I just want to say thank you for everything you're doing to elevate womenin construction and just what you're doing so.
thanks.
I appreciate that.
And I really appreciate you taking time to be here with us today.
Super excited to share your episode with everybody and all the rest of them to come.
So again, thanks so much for joining us today.
Thank you for having me.
(40:09):
Thank you for tuning in to today's episode of The Construction Cafe.
We hope you found our conversation as inspiring as your next big project.
Remember, you can dive deeper into the resources and topics we discuss by connecting withus on LinkedIn and Instagram.
Just search for The Construction Cafe.
Don't miss out on future episodes.
Be sure to follow us on Spotify, Podbean, and Apple Podcasts to keep the conversationgoing.
(40:33):
If you're passionate about the construction industry and have a story to share, we'd loveto hear from you.
Visit our website at the constructioncafe.com and drop us a note.
Let's keep building together.
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