March 7, 2025 • 42 mins
In this final episode of Women in Construction Week, Tristen sits down with Parisa Nassiri, a senior fire protection engineer at Holmes US, to explore her unique career path. From navigating gender disparities in engineering education to earning her master’s in fire protection engineering, Parisa shares how she found her way into this critical but often overlooked field. She discusses the importance of fire safety regulations, the challenges of being taken seriously in male-dominated spaces, and the need for greater flexibility and equity in the industry. Tune in for an insightful conversation on shaping safer buildings and advocating for the next generation of women in engineering. #WICWEEK2025
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Episode Transcript
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(00:05):
Welcome to the Construction Cafe, where the buzz of the construction industry meets thewarmth of a friendly conversation.
I'm your host, Tristen Magallanes.
Join me at our virtual cafe as we explore the foundations of construction culture, sip oncutting edge concepts, and amplify the unspoken voices in our industry.
So grab a cup of your favorite beverage, pull up a seat, and let's build more than juststructures, let's build connections.
(00:33):
This is the Construction Cafe.
folks, welcome back to the Construction Cafe.
We are on our last episode of Women in Construction Week.
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I'm a little bit sad, it's been a long journey, lots of episodes and amazing stories toshare.
And today for our last episode, I am joined by Parisa Parisa, welcome to the show, reallyexcited to have you.
Thank you for having me, I'm very excited to be here.
So I met you through Holmes US and super excited to share about your role because I thinkit's one of the unique ones that I've managed to include in this series.
(01:22):
I'm very excited for you to share more about it.
So if you could maybe share just a little bit about your role in construction, what youdo, anything else about how you got here would be really helpful, I think, for our
listeners to know.
Sure.
So what I'm doing right now is that I'm a senior fire engineer.
And I've been in the construction industry overall for maybe about nine, 10 years now.
(01:47):
I know maybe fire engineering is not the most common profession in the constructionindustry.
And I get asked that question a lot.
Is it actually a major in the university?
And what actually did you study?
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, when I first met you, I think I asked, I might have asked you that.
I get that question a lot.
But yeah, I can start with a little bit of background on what I did, how I got here.
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So I...
I'm an Iranian born and raised in Tehran.
I did my bachelor's in civil engineering.
And to be honest, the reason I ended up studying civil engineering was that my dad is andwas a civil engineer.
And that's how I got exposed to the industry from a very young age.
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knew the challenges and I kind of knew what I'm signing up for and I was excited for it.
And then given that we are talking about women in construction, I think it might be goodthat I share a little bit about maybe the challenges for the women facing or being in this
type of industries outside of US.
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And then I'll get into how I go to the fire engineering maybe.
really useful for folks to know is this pathway and journey of from Iran to here.
And also, I think there's differences in education and how those systems work.
some other guests have shared similar threads.
So I think that'd be really helpful for folks to hear.
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Yeah, absolutely.
sure.
So yeah, exactly.
The university system is actually very different.
Or how you get into the university actually is also very different.
In order to get into the university, you sit in a four hour exam or entrance exam thatpretty much covers everything from literature to math, physics, chemistry.
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And then after that, you'll you'll be ranked and then based on that rank, you have anoption to make a list of the
programs and the universities that you want to get into.
But and then based on whoever chooses or the people that have been ranked before you anddepending on what they've chose you'll get into you'll get accepted into a program and
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into a university.
But there's a catch to it and that's that when there are some industries and some majorsthat have limited capacities for women.
Civil engineering is an example was that was a condition that my chance of getting intothe program compared to a guy was 20 to 80.
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So there was a 20 % capacity compared to an 80 % capacity.
actually have like specified like gender differences of what they will accept number wise.
Wow, interesting.
So eventually, like at the year that I got into my program, there were less than a hundredof us, about 15 ish women and the rest of them were guys.
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So you could definitely see the difference in like, yeah, it was, it's an actual.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Anyways, I studied my civil engineering and at the same time I was working with my dad inhis company doing a lot of different types of stuff from being on site to working on plans
(05:18):
and figuring out things out on that front.
And then
That was when I got introduced into fire protection engineering, actually.
My dad was also looking into it a little bit.
So we ended up going to different courses, figuring out what is sprinkler system and howto design fire alarm system.
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And it kind of sparked an interest in me.
I wanted to know more and I wanted to learn more.
Mm-hmm.
Around the same time, I met with now my husband and we decided that we'll want to give ita try.
We both of us ended up applying for different universities, pretty much everybody that hadthis program, which was not a lot.
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there's not very many.
Yeah, there were not too many of them.
We ended up applying for a program in Europe, which was called International Masters inFire Safety Engineering, IMFSE.
It's actually a very interesting program just because each semester you can be in onecountry.
There are three different universities in the Europe that has that program.
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And university, the University of Edinburgh.
So you spend six months in each of these countries, in each of these universities.
And then for your last semester, you can choose where you want to be to do your thesis oryour last semester.
That was one of the programs.
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It's very cool.
It's actually very, it's a very interesting program.
Then the other options that we had were University of Maryland and the WPI University inMassachusetts.
Eventually we decided that we will go to University of Maryland.
We both actually studied fire protection engineering there for our masters.
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And then a couple of years later, I graduated and joined the company that I'm at right nowfor now a bit more than six and a half years now.
Yeah.
So you guys are both, your husband and you are both fire protection engineers then.
That's gotta be some fun conversations.
At least you guys like understand what each other are saying then.
(07:35):
We speak the same language, but that means that we're being nerds everywhere we go andpointing out to things that we are, this is not compliant, the egress here is abstracted.
My husband, my husband's a building engineer.
So he we joke that I helped build the buildings and he helps take care of them afterthey're built.
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And so we also we also often speak the same language and nerd out about we point out stuffin buildings all the time.
I can't not see it.
So I'm sure some people.
probably turn to us and they're like, what are they talking about or what are they lookingat or who cares?
And I don't know.
(08:18):
Like, just enjoy your time at, I don't know, at this restaurant.
And yeah, exactly.
it's just natural.
But I think that's that natural curiosity and excitement and passion we have for what wedo.
I think what you've studied and your husband studied both, I think is incredibly uniqueand an opportunity for a role in this industry that maybe people don't really even know
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existed.
And I personally, until three years ago, didn't know it existed as a separate
seeing you could study in a role that you could focus on.
So I love that.
And I'm fascinated by it and understand a tiny fraction of it myself.
So what was it like coming when you got to the US with the differences in, I kind ofimagine there's differences in construction and how it's built and the code.
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And that has to be a lot to take in and wrap your head around.
Well, yes, for sure.
Even from how, as a comparison, like how regulated things are here in the US.
I feel like, well, for the program that I, or the profession that I'm in right now, thegood thing is that it's, the type of work that I do is very interdisciplinary.
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So I get to do,
a lot of different types of projects.
But the good thing about it is that there are regulations that you can follow, but also alot of engineering parts and aspects to it that essentially goes along with those
regulations.
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That's not the case there.
it's a lot of it.
I think it's good to have that reliance on both engineering and the regulations.
absolutely.
Yeah.
What's your what's your dad think about your career?
he, well, he loves that I'm in the same industry and we also talk a lot, talk shop a lot.
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And sometimes I have questions that I go to him.
Sometimes he has questions.
We talk a lot about, fire engineering, structural fire engineering.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's been great.
would love to sit at the dinner table with you and your dad and your husband and just bewitness to that.
I think it would be so much fun.
(10:46):
Thank
say my mom and my sister get bored a lot when we have those chats, but we enjoy it.
I'm going to ask this question, but I feel like you've already sort of talked about thisis what are some of the challenges you faced in your role?
But you you've overcome a lot of challenges, you know, coming from different countrystudying in different country, coming to the United States, reestablishing yourself in a
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country as you're developing your role.
I gotta imagine a lot of that is challenging.
Is there something else that's been really challenging that you, you know, in thisindustry you found?
Yeah, for sure.
mean, definitely my experience here in the US has been so different from the time when Iwas working in Iran, being on job sites in extremely male dominated industry in even more
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male dominated country, but
you
Even here, not as much, but there has been times that I came across in conditions where Ihaven't been taken seriously or I had to prove myself at times before being taken
seriously.
And I think there's work to be done.
(12:02):
I've had this experience a while back when I had a call scheduled with a client.
And as soon as I joined the call, before even I had a chance to introduce myself, thefirst question was, is there going to be a more senior person joining you?
And it was weird just because it was like, you don't even like, haven't even startedtalking.
(12:24):
Yeah, exactly.
And that specific or that...
experience specifically was very, I think, bold just because I feel like my husband ofsame age in the same industry has never got that comment before.
And yeah, it's different, but I feel like there's still work to be done for sure.
(12:47):
So yeah, there are still, yeah.
think that's a mixture, it sounds like of sort of assumptions around gender, but alsoassumptions around age or what people assume is your age.
I'm not gonna say I'm not guilty of it sometimes.
There's times when I've had people pop into a meeting and I'm like, oh my goodness, you're22.
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What do you know about this industry?
that, like, I think we all have those unconscious biases that happen.
I think the important thing is to,
be open to having somebody interrupt it and not being defensive about it.
And that's really important work we can do and help support each other.
So, man, that's a tough one.
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I recall early in my career in the industry having those similar feelings of peopleassuming because I was of a certain age that I didn't understand.
But again, you grew up around this.
So you probably had some inherent knowledge that you just knew from your experiences withyour dad and stuff.
I feel like I had that same thing of having grown up with my dad's a carpenter and abuilder.
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And so I inherently had some knowledge already.
Not that I was necessarily trained yet, but and people looked at me like I just knewnothing because I was this 19 year old girl.
And I'm like, but I do know things.
Or I'm willing to learn.
That's the other piece.
So yeah.
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Well, that's the beauty of it too, I think, is we can learn.
We're all open to learning.
Just don't treat me like I'm a 12-year-old.
Yeah, exactly.
When it comes to specifically you've touched on coming from a country where it'sincredibly male dominated in general, and then you're working in an industry that is also
in the US, fairly male dominated still, even though our numbers of women in the industryhave risen in the last decade pretty decently, we have a lot of work to do.
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When it comes to equity for women in the construction space, what are some changes youthink might be most needed?
it's well, when I'm thinking about equity in women, let me start with a little bit ofbackground.
I was listening to this podcast a while ago, maybe a few years ago now.
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there was this, I, I need to go back and actually check what was the podcast, but therewas this,
episode that featured Claudia Golding as the guest and she's essentially economichistorian and focuses on everything women related and their roles in the market, in the
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labor market.
And she said something that really stuck with me just because I never thought about equityin women this way before.
essentially what she was saying was that equity is a choice that we make and it comes witha cost.
And I think it's actually
accurate just because I don't know I feel like one of the biggest decisions that you makein your life is whether or not you want to have kids and that decision comes with the cost
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whether it's financially but also like the impact that you will have on your career andthe path that you're taking and
Typically, like for example, in an equitable relationship, you have that discussion andyou get to choose who will carry that, whether you share that cost or who will carry that,
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the majority of that cost.
But I think we've seen the data is showing that the majority of time, the person who'staking that cost are the women.
Mm-hmm.
And I think the change probably that might be helpful to see is adding that flexibility tothe schedule.
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Like I feel like the work from home culture that we've picked after COVID has been veryhelpful with it.
with the work-life balance, but I feel like it's been game changer for women.
And I think we need, we probably need more of that.
That flexibility piece, you are probably the fourth or fifth person in this series to havebrought that forward.
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Acknowledging that women are still, you know, primary caretakers.
We also physically are the ones that have to carry birth children, if that's the path thatyou choose to have children.
There are other pathways to being a mother, including adoption and other things.
And that does come with a cost, whether right, or indifferent, it is the state of things.
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And that's a really important piece.
that's like adding the flexibility to.
And I feel like it's not even just for taking care of a child, it's caregiving in general,like whether you have an older parent that you're taking care of.
I feel like that flexibility definitely will help.
Absolutely.
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And I think some of the greatest examples I've had that helped me lean into holding on tothe flexibility and the boundaries, because I came into the industry a long time ago and
that was not present.
And I have since struggled myself with feeling guilty of taking the flexibility.
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Even through COVID, it was awkward to me.
because I just wasn't part of my growing up in this industry.
my male, some of the men that I've worked with alongside or for have been great examplesof that, where I think I've shared this many times as somebody I worked for on Fridays, or
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I forget which days, he would walk his children to school.
And he's like, no, I can't take meetings during that time.
I'm walking my children to school.
And I loved that he didn't, like he,
shared that that's what he was doing, that that was a space he was taking and he was justgoing to say, and he's like, and if you have things like that that you're doing, that's
fine too.
That'll get that allowed me to show up and also bring that forward for me and futurepeople that I work with.
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And so I love that.
And I do agree.
The flexibility is incredibly important.
And along with the flexibility is not then punishing people in different ways, not
saying, well, you can't be a leader because you need this flexibility.
don't think that's, I could see that being the reaction and I hope that we are better thanthat now.
(19:39):
No, I agree.
And I love the fact, like, I love what you're saying that your coworker actually wassharing that, that he's putting that time to be with the family and do what is important
at that time.
And I think we need more of that.
I feel like as women, we, a lot of time, we feel exactly guilty for, for taking that timeto do, be with family and do the things that are important.
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I don't think it's just about having children.
I want folks to recognize that it's women are caretakers in different ways.
We also, I think it's also perfectly acceptable that we want the flexibility to justsimply, I don't know, spend time with your dog, go for a hike, be in nature, cook good
food or go learn something else outside of work.
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All of those things are valid.
It's not just about being a mother.
And I don't want people to get that message either because I don't
I think choosing not to be a mother is a acceptable option in the society and I don't wantfolks to take that message the wrong way either.
No, for sure.
And this is exactly the flexibility in general, whether you want to just go to a movie andspend time with your friends.
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Exactly.
It's just having that option to have that flexibility.
Agreed, agreed.
And I feel like to your point about the changes that I think would be helpful to see is
Maybe giving women a seat at the table when those decisions are being made for companycultures.
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Not even like if the path is to go with more flexibility or not or like how, what are thechanges that are being made in the company cultures?
I think it is important for women to have a seat and have an input on those decisionsbeing made.
That's really important, especially because a lot of leadership, executive, C-suite groupsin a lot of companies in our industry and outside of our industry are still predominantly
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men.
So if those decisions are getting made, bringing women to the conversation and listeningto them and letting their voice be heard and acting in accordance with that.
So yes, maybe we're not at the C-suite table yet in certain
groups and organizations or companies.
So setting aside that and letting the women help make those decisions is incrediblyimportant.
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And that's a great point that you can do that with just bringing them to the conversationand listening.
You might not like what you hear, but set aside your ego and listen anyway.
Because making that flexibility also will help everyone.
Like, yeah.
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I have some crazy ideas of flexibility.
I've shared some of them on different episodes.
My latest one is, what if we could create so much automation and processes thateverybody's work day was five hours a day?
Would that be great?
been amazing, especially in the construction industry is like long hours, weird workinghours.
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I would love that.
Yeah, maybe we'll get there in like two decades.
That's my hope.
Holmes know, does some great community stuff.
Is there any community initiatives or groups or even your own personal contributions thatyou've seen made that have been made to positively impact women in construction in the
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last five, six years?
Something that I've really appreciated the company is doing is...
well, before getting into the community, societal community level, but they something thatthey do within the company right now is they review the each year they they do a review of
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gender pay gap inequalities that might be in the company, not necessarily for
essentially putting numbers to it, just so that we know what is the trend, are we in theright track?
we essentially mind the gap?
And yeah, that's, it's amazing.
I really appreciate it.
The effort that is being put on this, mainly because it's important to have that dataknowing that you are on the right track.
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There's definitely work to be done, but it's important to also know the changes that weare making.
how are they impacting the women in the company, in the industry?
Just because I feel like when we were talking about all of this, we definitely need morewomen in the industry, but then at the same time, we wanna make sure.
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once they're in the industry, they have same opportunities and the same chances to get todo what they want and get to more leadership roles.
So I've been really appreciative of the effort on this.
and that speaks to the other piece that I don't actually think has been brought forward inany of the series yet is the retention piece of women in the industry.
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So if we can ensure that there's equitable pay in benefits and access to benefits andwhatnot, then the retention, think, will be better.
Because if I've heard many stories of women who lead the industry because there isequitable pay elsewhere.
Whereas here in the industry, they have found that an equitable pay doesn't just mean I'mgetting paid the same as the person sitting next to me in the same role.
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That's not, think people have a misconception.
Equitable pay also means that the workload is the same, the access to increasing roles andresponsibilities is the same.
All of those things are true.
That they noticed that to be, they found it somewhere else.
And I think that's really important to bring forward for our industry is if we want peopleto stay, we need to think about those things.
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And I love that Holmes is doing that work through that yearly review and being transparentabout it as well.
That's great.
Yeah, that has been great.
And I think going back to that piece, I think we definitely need more women in theindustry.
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I feel like probably one of the reasons or like one of the things that can be done ismainly
seeing how we can encourage younger women to consider STEM roles in genealogies, because Ifeel like I wouldn't have ever known what is a fire protection engineering if I haven't
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encountered people who have been exposed to it or hear their real life experiences.
And I feel like it's important to share that story and share what are the options that areout there.
The options are endless and you can pretty much do anything in or
a lot of different career paths in the industry.
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in this industry as long as I've been in and I hadn't heard of a fire protection engineer.
So, I mean, there's also building codes and changing the building codes.
I think there's a whole group of women that are there.
And there's other types of engineering you can study that goes into creating a buildingand systems in a building, mechanical engineering, chemical engineering for material
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science.
They're so...
fascinated exactly.
Yeah.
wish retrospectively I wish I'd have known about many of these things when I was youngerbecause I might have chosen a different path.
Although I do strongly still think that if I could redo it, I might have been a heavyequipment operator.
you
because just, equipment in general, find fun and fascinating and so many advances theretoo.
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But I wish I could do so many different things.
We only have so much time on this earth though.
Exactly.
And I feel like actually one of the most amazing parts about what I'm doing is that justbecause I'm the same, I would love to do everything.
And I feel like as part of my day-to-day role or technical aspects of it, at least I getintroduced in different types of projects.
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I've worked on single-family housing projects to multifamily high-rise buildings to datacenters and infrastructures, tunnels and...
Yeah, well, and while we can't talk about the specifics, the reason I know you is becauseyou got pulled into an R &D project of like a whole new concept of something and problem
solving and thinking creatively through that.
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And that just sounds exciting.
So any people who might maybe have other engineering skills, there's an opportunity tocome into this industry and help us build better and differently.
And I love that.
And I, Scott Brown speaks very highly of you all the time.
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And he's like, I would, just, the work she's doing is so incredibly, it's so interesting,it's so different.
And she's just this upcoming powerhouse.
So you have fans in this industry that are so excited about the work you're doing.
I just, I love that you're sharing your story and bringing forward like what it is you do,because I think so many people just don't know.
No, thank you.
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Yeah, I'm not saying it's perfect in any ways.
has highs and lows, but I've enjoyed every part of it and every project that I've beeninvolved in the last years.
Do have a favorite project that you've worked on?
I do have favorite projects, but, yeah, there's that part too.
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There's a lot of my projects that I can't talk anything about it, but I feel like there'sthat, I think everyone in the construction industry has that feeling when you see a
project being built and at least, when, when you know that
you've had a teeny tiny part in contributing to it.
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And that feeling for me was the first project that I was involved in here.
was a tech campus of five different buildings.
And it was so amazing to see that being built, although like my scope is very limitedcompared to what.
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architect is doing or what GCs are doing.
But it still felt amazing to see that this beautiful building has been built and you had atiny bit of part to it to make it a little bit safer.
And it's just an amazing feeling to see that.
drive past that building with people, can say, I helped build that.
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I make it safe.
And that's the cool part.
There's no shame.
Have a little pride in what we do.
Like, just say it.
I do.
I think it's important.
Own it.
Also just, I think people, the safety aspect of what you do, of keeping people in thebuildings themselves safe.
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for people to be in is super, super important.
And I don't think people think that part through sometimes about the systems that couldallow you to survive a fire.
listeners, let that sink in a minute.
That that's allowing you to potentially exit a building in time and your life would besaved or your loved one's life or your animal.
(31:29):
Like that's pretty big.
Yeah, and I feel like when I actually when the first semester at at University ofMaryland, we had a course that we had to go and do research on the biggest fires that has
happened and what has been the cause or what has been the casualties, what was the reasonfor it and why did so many people died in that fire.
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And I feel like that course had such an impact on me to realize, this is very
important.
It can, it can, it is a big deal.
So you better make it right.
Or it's going to be challenging to
(32:14):
Yeah.
Well, and we recognize, I think there's a recognition, right, that you're as perfect as itmight be, things are still going to happen, right?
And that's a piece of the conversation is not just completely eliminating the risk, that'simpossible.
But you can mitigate it also to the point where all of our amazing first responders areable to do their jobs effectively and be safe in the process.
(32:37):
And I think that's a big piece of the conversation as well for fire protection is
It might just be about it holding up long enough to get everybody out of the building It'sincredible work you do.
Switching a little bit.
This is my fun question.
I ask it to everybody.
I think I've only missed one person asking this.
But if you could give your younger self.
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One piece of advice when you first chose construction, your first year in construction,what would it be?
I'd say probably the most important thing I would tell her would to build confidence andtake up the space in the technical discussions and push yourself out of your comfort zone
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and trusted you belong there.
It's funny to say this now that we're sitting in a podcast that will be out in a publicplatform to my whole life until maybe five, six years ago, public speaking has been one of
the biggest.
years of my life.
it's, I recall the day that I was doing my thesis dissertation, I was so stressed thatafter one and a half hour, two hours worth of discussion and presentations, I did not
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recall a single word I said.
It was kind of like my mind went to this survival mode that wiped the whole thing out.
I did not recall anything.
had that experience too, by the way.
It was so weird.
was like I talked for the last two hours and now I don't remember anything out of it.
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My point is that experience specifically taught me that at least for me the confidence wasnot something that I magically had.
It was something that I had to build really by showing up even when I'm scared.
Absolutely.
Somebody else, I think it was Dafna in my interview with Dafna Kaplan, said she wasengaging with a fear coach.
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And this reminds me a little bit about some of the things she talked about is it's notabout getting rid of the fear, it's going through the fear and you're gonna feel it.
it's a part of the experience.
It's a natural, normal human emotion and reaction.
It's actually there intentionally for preservation.
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It's part of our reptilian brain.
It's part of who we are.
And instead of shoving it aside, I think part of what we can do for ourselves is to learnto sort of take it along for the ride.
Embrace it, exactly.
it.
It's not easy.
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It's easy to say, I'm still doing I'm still learning that relationship as well with fearand anxiety and anxiety with public speaking.
I would say I also very much struggled even to speak up in meetings was very hard for mefor a very long time.
And what I think one small thing we can do for each other is if you're part of a meetingand you've already kind of done this work and you're
(35:57):
you're confident enough and don't have that challenge anymore.
And you notice somebody sitting in a meeting, such as a fellow woman, and you know them.
Like, you know one-on-one they've got something to say.
Just very, in a nice way, just ask them a question or ask them to share what they'rethinking or a specific piece that you know they have the answer to.
(36:22):
Ask them to share the solution.
I think
Opening up the opportunity for them to speak is sometimes just the tiny bit that that'sneeded and will be helpful Yeah, yeah people have done it for me So and I think that's
part of them part of the intent and joy of this podcast is
(36:47):
opening up that space where we're gonna sit and have this one-on-one amazing conversation.
And yes, you might be scared, you might be nervous, might, what are all those feelings?
That's okay.
It's okay.
I think I share this with a few other people.
I don't know if I've shared this on the podcast though.
My first podcast episode that I published, I agonized over how I sounded.
(37:09):
I rerecorded it at least 10 times.
And I will tell you, if I listened to it today, I would probably say,
all the things I did wrong, right, and could have done better.
But I made a promise last year for Women in Construction Week, I would launch the firstone.
And so I hit publish and I was terrified.
Terrified, anxious, couldn't sleep.
(37:32):
I turned off every single electronic device in the house that I could think of because Ididn't want to, I was still worried about what would happen.
And then a week went by and nothing happened.
And so the beauty of it is, is I had created all those internal fears based on all myexperiences for myself.
And at end of the day, gotta let it fly.
(37:53):
And say what you in your mind.
Yeah.
I actually listened to that first podcast that you published and I think it was an amazingepisode, but I feel like a lot of us are at some portion or maybe even on a regular basis
are dealing with imposter syndrome.
And maybe thinking that we're not good enough for what we were doing, but I think thatthat episode was amazingly done and I, yeah, I loved it.
(38:22):
it.
Oddly enough, it's the most listened to one I have.
yeah, I would like to, I'm glad this Women in Construction Week is different and I'm gladpeople joined the conversation because speaking to the microphone by myself felt very
weird to me.
So I'm excited to have everybody join me.
(38:45):
So as we wrap up the other
question I make sure to ask everybody and this can be, you know, respond however isnatural.
But are there other women in the industry you've learned from or been mentored by or youjust want to give a shout out to that you want to elevate?
I have so many amazing women that I've came across that have been real badasses in whatthey're doing and not
(39:12):
just technically, but just being amazing humans and being amazing to work with and helpinguplifting others in the industry.
I have honestly too many to name, but I also feel like I owe this shout out to my mom justbecause she has been always my biggest advocate.
(39:35):
and she was the reason I thought that I could be whatever I want and I can do whatever Iwant.
in the field or go to any field that I think I enjoy.
So, yeah, I feel like she's a powerhouse and I always look up to her.
she's not an Indian industry, she's a pharmacist, but I feel like she's always been myrole model.
(40:07):
out to your mom then.
Also being a pharmacist from what I've seen is hard work.
So that's awesome.
Well, is there any final thoughts or anything we haven't touched on for specifically Womenin Construction Week that you'd like to share or bring forward?
(40:29):
no, nothing really.
The only other thing that I was thinking as, I was just thinking about women inconstruction and just being in the industry, I feel like something else that would be
helpful, for us to do is advocate for.
other women, if you see someone is doing an amazing job, give them the feedback.
(40:54):
They might have a bad day or they like everyone will enjoy having that feedback.
So speak up, give that feedback.
I'm sure everyone will enjoy it.
Even go to their managers and give the feedback on how amazing they're doing.
So I think it's important to acknowledge the good work that you're doing.
give feedback.
(41:16):
Also receive feedback.
I think people are very uncomfortable sometimes with that.
I've had to learn, just say thank you and move on.
It's okay.
Be uncomfortable.
Thanks for watching.
I really appreciate you taking the time to come on the show today and I hope everyone goesand looks at fire protection engineering and gets excited about it because it is super
(41:43):
awesome and a needed profession in our industry.
It is, yeah.
Thank you for having me here.
It was amazing having this discussion with you.
Thank you.
Thank you for tuning in to today's episode of The Construction Cafe.
(42:03):
We hope you found our conversation as inspiring as your next big project.
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Just search for The Construction Cafe.
Don't miss out on future episodes.
Be sure to follow us on Spotify, Podbean, and Apple Podcasts to keep the conversationgoing.
(42:24):
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Let's keep building better together.
Welcome to the Construction Cafe, where the buzz of the construction industry meets thewarmth of a friendly conversation.
I'm your host, Tristen Magallanes.
Join me at our virtual cafe as we explore the foundations of construction culture, sip oncutting edge concepts, and amplify the unspoken voices in our industry.
So grab a cup of your favorite beverage, pull up a seat, and let's build more than juststructures, let's build connections.
(00:33):
This is the Construction Cafe.
folks, welcome back to the Construction Cafe.
We are on our last episode of Women in Construction Week.
(00:53):
I'm a little bit sad, it's been a long journey, lots of episodes and amazing stories toshare.
And today for our last episode, I am joined by Parisa Parisa, welcome to the show, reallyexcited to have you.
Thank you for having me, I'm very excited to be here.
So I met you through Holmes US and super excited to share about your role because I thinkit's one of the unique ones that I've managed to include in this series.
(01:22):
I'm very excited for you to share more about it.
So if you could maybe share just a little bit about your role in construction, what youdo, anything else about how you got here would be really helpful, I think, for our
listeners to know.
Sure.
So what I'm doing right now is that I'm a senior fire engineer.
And I've been in the construction industry overall for maybe about nine, 10 years now.
(01:47):
I know maybe fire engineering is not the most common profession in the constructionindustry.
And I get asked that question a lot.
Is it actually a major in the university?
And what actually did you study?
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, when I first met you, I think I asked, I might have asked you that.
I get that question a lot.
But yeah, I can start with a little bit of background on what I did, how I got here.
(02:14):
So I...
I'm an Iranian born and raised in Tehran.
I did my bachelor's in civil engineering.
And to be honest, the reason I ended up studying civil engineering was that my dad is andwas a civil engineer.
And that's how I got exposed to the industry from a very young age.
(02:37):
knew the challenges and I kind of knew what I'm signing up for and I was excited for it.
And then given that we are talking about women in construction, I think it might be goodthat I share a little bit about maybe the challenges for the women facing or being in this
type of industries outside of US.
(02:58):
And then I'll get into how I go to the fire engineering maybe.
really useful for folks to know is this pathway and journey of from Iran to here.
And also, I think there's differences in education and how those systems work.
some other guests have shared similar threads.
So I think that'd be really helpful for folks to hear.
(03:19):
Yeah, absolutely.
sure.
So yeah, exactly.
The university system is actually very different.
Or how you get into the university actually is also very different.
In order to get into the university, you sit in a four hour exam or entrance exam thatpretty much covers everything from literature to math, physics, chemistry.
(03:42):
And then after that, you'll you'll be ranked and then based on that rank, you have anoption to make a list of the
programs and the universities that you want to get into.
But and then based on whoever chooses or the people that have been ranked before you anddepending on what they've chose you'll get into you'll get accepted into a program and
(04:05):
into a university.
But there's a catch to it and that's that when there are some industries and some majorsthat have limited capacities for women.
Civil engineering is an example was that was a condition that my chance of getting intothe program compared to a guy was 20 to 80.
(04:27):
So there was a 20 % capacity compared to an 80 % capacity.
actually have like specified like gender differences of what they will accept number wise.
Wow, interesting.
So eventually, like at the year that I got into my program, there were less than a hundredof us, about 15 ish women and the rest of them were guys.
(04:51):
So you could definitely see the difference in like, yeah, it was, it's an actual.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Anyways, I studied my civil engineering and at the same time I was working with my dad inhis company doing a lot of different types of stuff from being on site to working on plans
(05:18):
and figuring out things out on that front.
And then
That was when I got introduced into fire protection engineering, actually.
My dad was also looking into it a little bit.
So we ended up going to different courses, figuring out what is sprinkler system and howto design fire alarm system.
(05:40):
And it kind of sparked an interest in me.
I wanted to know more and I wanted to learn more.
Mm-hmm.
Around the same time, I met with now my husband and we decided that we'll want to give ita try.
We both of us ended up applying for different universities, pretty much everybody that hadthis program, which was not a lot.
(06:05):
there's not very many.
Yeah, there were not too many of them.
We ended up applying for a program in Europe, which was called International Masters inFire Safety Engineering, IMFSE.
It's actually a very interesting program just because each semester you can be in onecountry.
There are three different universities in the Europe that has that program.
(06:29):
And university, the University of Edinburgh.
So you spend six months in each of these countries, in each of these universities.
And then for your last semester, you can choose where you want to be to do your thesis oryour last semester.
That was one of the programs.
(06:49):
It's very cool.
It's actually very, it's a very interesting program.
Then the other options that we had were University of Maryland and the WPI University inMassachusetts.
Eventually we decided that we will go to University of Maryland.
We both actually studied fire protection engineering there for our masters.
(07:12):
And then a couple of years later, I graduated and joined the company that I'm at right nowfor now a bit more than six and a half years now.
Yeah.
So you guys are both, your husband and you are both fire protection engineers then.
That's gotta be some fun conversations.
At least you guys like understand what each other are saying then.
(07:35):
We speak the same language, but that means that we're being nerds everywhere we go andpointing out to things that we are, this is not compliant, the egress here is abstracted.
My husband, my husband's a building engineer.
So he we joke that I helped build the buildings and he helps take care of them afterthey're built.
(07:57):
And so we also we also often speak the same language and nerd out about we point out stuffin buildings all the time.
I can't not see it.
So I'm sure some people.
probably turn to us and they're like, what are they talking about or what are they lookingat or who cares?
And I don't know.
(08:18):
Like, just enjoy your time at, I don't know, at this restaurant.
And yeah, exactly.
it's just natural.
But I think that's that natural curiosity and excitement and passion we have for what wedo.
I think what you've studied and your husband studied both, I think is incredibly uniqueand an opportunity for a role in this industry that maybe people don't really even know
(08:44):
existed.
And I personally, until three years ago, didn't know it existed as a separate
seeing you could study in a role that you could focus on.
So I love that.
And I'm fascinated by it and understand a tiny fraction of it myself.
So what was it like coming when you got to the US with the differences in, I kind ofimagine there's differences in construction and how it's built and the code.
(09:12):
And that has to be a lot to take in and wrap your head around.
Well, yes, for sure.
Even from how, as a comparison, like how regulated things are here in the US.
I feel like, well, for the program that I, or the profession that I'm in right now, thegood thing is that it's, the type of work that I do is very interdisciplinary.
(09:42):
So I get to do,
a lot of different types of projects.
But the good thing about it is that there are regulations that you can follow, but also alot of engineering parts and aspects to it that essentially goes along with those
regulations.
(10:03):
That's not the case there.
it's a lot of it.
I think it's good to have that reliance on both engineering and the regulations.
absolutely.
Yeah.
What's your what's your dad think about your career?
he, well, he loves that I'm in the same industry and we also talk a lot, talk shop a lot.
(10:25):
And sometimes I have questions that I go to him.
Sometimes he has questions.
We talk a lot about, fire engineering, structural fire engineering.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's been great.
would love to sit at the dinner table with you and your dad and your husband and just bewitness to that.
I think it would be so much fun.
(10:46):
Thank
say my mom and my sister get bored a lot when we have those chats, but we enjoy it.
I'm going to ask this question, but I feel like you've already sort of talked about thisis what are some of the challenges you faced in your role?
But you you've overcome a lot of challenges, you know, coming from different countrystudying in different country, coming to the United States, reestablishing yourself in a
(11:15):
country as you're developing your role.
I gotta imagine a lot of that is challenging.
Is there something else that's been really challenging that you, you know, in thisindustry you found?
Yeah, for sure.
mean, definitely my experience here in the US has been so different from the time when Iwas working in Iran, being on job sites in extremely male dominated industry in even more
(11:41):
male dominated country, but
you
Even here, not as much, but there has been times that I came across in conditions where Ihaven't been taken seriously or I had to prove myself at times before being taken
seriously.
And I think there's work to be done.
(12:02):
I've had this experience a while back when I had a call scheduled with a client.
And as soon as I joined the call, before even I had a chance to introduce myself, thefirst question was, is there going to be a more senior person joining you?
And it was weird just because it was like, you don't even like, haven't even startedtalking.
(12:24):
Yeah, exactly.
And that specific or that...
experience specifically was very, I think, bold just because I feel like my husband ofsame age in the same industry has never got that comment before.
And yeah, it's different, but I feel like there's still work to be done for sure.
(12:47):
So yeah, there are still, yeah.
think that's a mixture, it sounds like of sort of assumptions around gender, but alsoassumptions around age or what people assume is your age.
I'm not gonna say I'm not guilty of it sometimes.
There's times when I've had people pop into a meeting and I'm like, oh my goodness, you're22.
(13:10):
What do you know about this industry?
that, like, I think we all have those unconscious biases that happen.
I think the important thing is to,
be open to having somebody interrupt it and not being defensive about it.
And that's really important work we can do and help support each other.
So, man, that's a tough one.
(13:31):
I recall early in my career in the industry having those similar feelings of peopleassuming because I was of a certain age that I didn't understand.
But again, you grew up around this.
So you probably had some inherent knowledge that you just knew from your experiences withyour dad and stuff.
I feel like I had that same thing of having grown up with my dad's a carpenter and abuilder.
(13:55):
And so I inherently had some knowledge already.
Not that I was necessarily trained yet, but and people looked at me like I just knewnothing because I was this 19 year old girl.
And I'm like, but I do know things.
Or I'm willing to learn.
That's the other piece.
So yeah.
(14:18):
Well, that's the beauty of it too, I think, is we can learn.
We're all open to learning.
Just don't treat me like I'm a 12-year-old.
Yeah, exactly.
When it comes to specifically you've touched on coming from a country where it'sincredibly male dominated in general, and then you're working in an industry that is also
in the US, fairly male dominated still, even though our numbers of women in the industryhave risen in the last decade pretty decently, we have a lot of work to do.
(14:48):
When it comes to equity for women in the construction space, what are some changes youthink might be most needed?
it's well, when I'm thinking about equity in women, let me start with a little bit ofbackground.
I was listening to this podcast a while ago, maybe a few years ago now.
(15:12):
there was this, I, I need to go back and actually check what was the podcast, but therewas this,
episode that featured Claudia Golding as the guest and she's essentially economichistorian and focuses on everything women related and their roles in the market, in the
(15:32):
labor market.
And she said something that really stuck with me just because I never thought about equityin women this way before.
essentially what she was saying was that equity is a choice that we make and it comes witha cost.
And I think it's actually
accurate just because I don't know I feel like one of the biggest decisions that you makein your life is whether or not you want to have kids and that decision comes with the cost
(16:03):
whether it's financially but also like the impact that you will have on your career andthe path that you're taking and
Typically, like for example, in an equitable relationship, you have that discussion andyou get to choose who will carry that, whether you share that cost or who will carry that,
(16:25):
the majority of that cost.
But I think we've seen the data is showing that the majority of time, the person who'staking that cost are the women.
Mm-hmm.
And I think the change probably that might be helpful to see is adding that flexibility tothe schedule.
(16:49):
Like I feel like the work from home culture that we've picked after COVID has been veryhelpful with it.
with the work-life balance, but I feel like it's been game changer for women.
And I think we need, we probably need more of that.
That flexibility piece, you are probably the fourth or fifth person in this series to havebrought that forward.
(17:18):
Acknowledging that women are still, you know, primary caretakers.
We also physically are the ones that have to carry birth children, if that's the path thatyou choose to have children.
There are other pathways to being a mother, including adoption and other things.
And that does come with a cost, whether right, or indifferent, it is the state of things.
(17:44):
And that's a really important piece.
that's like adding the flexibility to.
And I feel like it's not even just for taking care of a child, it's caregiving in general,like whether you have an older parent that you're taking care of.
I feel like that flexibility definitely will help.
Absolutely.
(18:04):
And I think some of the greatest examples I've had that helped me lean into holding on tothe flexibility and the boundaries, because I came into the industry a long time ago and
that was not present.
And I have since struggled myself with feeling guilty of taking the flexibility.
(18:30):
Even through COVID, it was awkward to me.
because I just wasn't part of my growing up in this industry.
my male, some of the men that I've worked with alongside or for have been great examplesof that, where I think I've shared this many times as somebody I worked for on Fridays, or
(18:51):
I forget which days, he would walk his children to school.
And he's like, no, I can't take meetings during that time.
I'm walking my children to school.
And I loved that he didn't, like he,
shared that that's what he was doing, that that was a space he was taking and he was justgoing to say, and he's like, and if you have things like that that you're doing, that's
fine too.
That'll get that allowed me to show up and also bring that forward for me and futurepeople that I work with.
(19:15):
And so I love that.
And I do agree.
The flexibility is incredibly important.
And along with the flexibility is not then punishing people in different ways, not
saying, well, you can't be a leader because you need this flexibility.
don't think that's, I could see that being the reaction and I hope that we are better thanthat now.
(19:39):
No, I agree.
And I love the fact, like, I love what you're saying that your coworker actually wassharing that, that he's putting that time to be with the family and do what is important
at that time.
And I think we need more of that.
I feel like as women, we, a lot of time, we feel exactly guilty for, for taking that timeto do, be with family and do the things that are important.
(20:05):
I don't think it's just about having children.
I want folks to recognize that it's women are caretakers in different ways.
We also, I think it's also perfectly acceptable that we want the flexibility to justsimply, I don't know, spend time with your dog, go for a hike, be in nature, cook good
food or go learn something else outside of work.
(20:27):
All of those things are valid.
It's not just about being a mother.
And I don't want people to get that message either because I don't
I think choosing not to be a mother is a acceptable option in the society and I don't wantfolks to take that message the wrong way either.
No, for sure.
And this is exactly the flexibility in general, whether you want to just go to a movie andspend time with your friends.
(20:51):
Exactly.
It's just having that option to have that flexibility.
Agreed, agreed.
And I feel like to your point about the changes that I think would be helpful to see is
Maybe giving women a seat at the table when those decisions are being made for companycultures.
(21:12):
Not even like if the path is to go with more flexibility or not or like how, what are thechanges that are being made in the company cultures?
I think it is important for women to have a seat and have an input on those decisionsbeing made.
That's really important, especially because a lot of leadership, executive, C-suite groupsin a lot of companies in our industry and outside of our industry are still predominantly
(21:42):
men.
So if those decisions are getting made, bringing women to the conversation and listeningto them and letting their voice be heard and acting in accordance with that.
So yes, maybe we're not at the C-suite table yet in certain
groups and organizations or companies.
So setting aside that and letting the women help make those decisions is incrediblyimportant.
(22:05):
And that's a great point that you can do that with just bringing them to the conversationand listening.
You might not like what you hear, but set aside your ego and listen anyway.
Because making that flexibility also will help everyone.
Like, yeah.
(22:25):
I have some crazy ideas of flexibility.
I've shared some of them on different episodes.
My latest one is, what if we could create so much automation and processes thateverybody's work day was five hours a day?
Would that be great?
been amazing, especially in the construction industry is like long hours, weird workinghours.
(22:47):
I would love that.
Yeah, maybe we'll get there in like two decades.
That's my hope.
Holmes know, does some great community stuff.
Is there any community initiatives or groups or even your own personal contributions thatyou've seen made that have been made to positively impact women in construction in the
(23:09):
last five, six years?
Something that I've really appreciated the company is doing is...
well, before getting into the community, societal community level, but they something thatthey do within the company right now is they review the each year they they do a review of
(23:33):
gender pay gap inequalities that might be in the company, not necessarily for
essentially putting numbers to it, just so that we know what is the trend, are we in theright track?
we essentially mind the gap?
And yeah, that's, it's amazing.
I really appreciate it.
The effort that is being put on this, mainly because it's important to have that dataknowing that you are on the right track.
(24:00):
There's definitely work to be done, but it's important to also know the changes that weare making.
how are they impacting the women in the company, in the industry?
Just because I feel like when we were talking about all of this, we definitely need morewomen in the industry, but then at the same time, we wanna make sure.
(24:23):
once they're in the industry, they have same opportunities and the same chances to get todo what they want and get to more leadership roles.
So I've been really appreciative of the effort on this.
and that speaks to the other piece that I don't actually think has been brought forward inany of the series yet is the retention piece of women in the industry.
(24:47):
So if we can ensure that there's equitable pay in benefits and access to benefits andwhatnot, then the retention, think, will be better.
Because if I've heard many stories of women who lead the industry because there isequitable pay elsewhere.
Whereas here in the industry, they have found that an equitable pay doesn't just mean I'mgetting paid the same as the person sitting next to me in the same role.
(25:16):
That's not, think people have a misconception.
Equitable pay also means that the workload is the same, the access to increasing roles andresponsibilities is the same.
All of those things are true.
That they noticed that to be, they found it somewhere else.
And I think that's really important to bring forward for our industry is if we want peopleto stay, we need to think about those things.
(25:42):
And I love that Holmes is doing that work through that yearly review and being transparentabout it as well.
That's great.
Yeah, that has been great.
And I think going back to that piece, I think we definitely need more women in theindustry.
(26:09):
I feel like probably one of the reasons or like one of the things that can be done ismainly
seeing how we can encourage younger women to consider STEM roles in genealogies, because Ifeel like I wouldn't have ever known what is a fire protection engineering if I haven't
(26:29):
encountered people who have been exposed to it or hear their real life experiences.
And I feel like it's important to share that story and share what are the options that areout there.
The options are endless and you can pretty much do anything in or
a lot of different career paths in the industry.
(26:50):
in this industry as long as I've been in and I hadn't heard of a fire protection engineer.
So, I mean, there's also building codes and changing the building codes.
I think there's a whole group of women that are there.
And there's other types of engineering you can study that goes into creating a buildingand systems in a building, mechanical engineering, chemical engineering for material
(27:14):
science.
They're so...
fascinated exactly.
Yeah.
wish retrospectively I wish I'd have known about many of these things when I was youngerbecause I might have chosen a different path.
Although I do strongly still think that if I could redo it, I might have been a heavyequipment operator.
you
because just, equipment in general, find fun and fascinating and so many advances theretoo.
(27:38):
But I wish I could do so many different things.
We only have so much time on this earth though.
Exactly.
And I feel like actually one of the most amazing parts about what I'm doing is that justbecause I'm the same, I would love to do everything.
And I feel like as part of my day-to-day role or technical aspects of it, at least I getintroduced in different types of projects.
(28:02):
I've worked on single-family housing projects to multifamily high-rise buildings to datacenters and infrastructures, tunnels and...
Yeah, well, and while we can't talk about the specifics, the reason I know you is becauseyou got pulled into an R &D project of like a whole new concept of something and problem
solving and thinking creatively through that.
(28:24):
And that just sounds exciting.
So any people who might maybe have other engineering skills, there's an opportunity tocome into this industry and help us build better and differently.
And I love that.
And I, Scott Brown speaks very highly of you all the time.
(28:46):
And he's like, I would, just, the work she's doing is so incredibly, it's so interesting,it's so different.
And she's just this upcoming powerhouse.
So you have fans in this industry that are so excited about the work you're doing.
I just, I love that you're sharing your story and bringing forward like what it is you do,because I think so many people just don't know.
No, thank you.
(29:06):
Yeah, I'm not saying it's perfect in any ways.
has highs and lows, but I've enjoyed every part of it and every project that I've beeninvolved in the last years.
Do have a favorite project that you've worked on?
I do have favorite projects, but, yeah, there's that part too.
(29:31):
There's a lot of my projects that I can't talk anything about it, but I feel like there'sthat, I think everyone in the construction industry has that feeling when you see a
project being built and at least, when, when you know that
you've had a teeny tiny part in contributing to it.
(29:54):
And that feeling for me was the first project that I was involved in here.
was a tech campus of five different buildings.
And it was so amazing to see that being built, although like my scope is very limitedcompared to what.
(30:15):
architect is doing or what GCs are doing.
But it still felt amazing to see that this beautiful building has been built and you had atiny bit of part to it to make it a little bit safer.
And it's just an amazing feeling to see that.
drive past that building with people, can say, I helped build that.
(30:38):
I make it safe.
And that's the cool part.
There's no shame.
Have a little pride in what we do.
Like, just say it.
I do.
I think it's important.
Own it.
Also just, I think people, the safety aspect of what you do, of keeping people in thebuildings themselves safe.
(31:02):
for people to be in is super, super important.
And I don't think people think that part through sometimes about the systems that couldallow you to survive a fire.
listeners, let that sink in a minute.
That that's allowing you to potentially exit a building in time and your life would besaved or your loved one's life or your animal.
(31:29):
Like that's pretty big.
Yeah, and I feel like when I actually when the first semester at at University ofMaryland, we had a course that we had to go and do research on the biggest fires that has
happened and what has been the cause or what has been the casualties, what was the reasonfor it and why did so many people died in that fire.
(31:54):
And I feel like that course had such an impact on me to realize, this is very
important.
It can, it can, it is a big deal.
So you better make it right.
Or it's going to be challenging to
(32:14):
Yeah.
Well, and we recognize, I think there's a recognition, right, that you're as perfect as itmight be, things are still going to happen, right?
And that's a piece of the conversation is not just completely eliminating the risk, that'simpossible.
But you can mitigate it also to the point where all of our amazing first responders areable to do their jobs effectively and be safe in the process.
(32:37):
And I think that's a big piece of the conversation as well for fire protection is
It might just be about it holding up long enough to get everybody out of the building It'sincredible work you do.
Switching a little bit.
This is my fun question.
I ask it to everybody.
I think I've only missed one person asking this.
But if you could give your younger self.
(33:00):
One piece of advice when you first chose construction, your first year in construction,what would it be?
I'd say probably the most important thing I would tell her would to build confidence andtake up the space in the technical discussions and push yourself out of your comfort zone
(33:22):
and trusted you belong there.
It's funny to say this now that we're sitting in a podcast that will be out in a publicplatform to my whole life until maybe five, six years ago, public speaking has been one of
the biggest.
years of my life.
it's, I recall the day that I was doing my thesis dissertation, I was so stressed thatafter one and a half hour, two hours worth of discussion and presentations, I did not
(33:57):
recall a single word I said.
It was kind of like my mind went to this survival mode that wiped the whole thing out.
I did not recall anything.
had that experience too, by the way.
It was so weird.
was like I talked for the last two hours and now I don't remember anything out of it.
(34:21):
My point is that experience specifically taught me that at least for me the confidence wasnot something that I magically had.
It was something that I had to build really by showing up even when I'm scared.
Absolutely.
Somebody else, I think it was Dafna in my interview with Dafna Kaplan, said she wasengaging with a fear coach.
(34:52):
And this reminds me a little bit about some of the things she talked about is it's notabout getting rid of the fear, it's going through the fear and you're gonna feel it.
it's a part of the experience.
It's a natural, normal human emotion and reaction.
It's actually there intentionally for preservation.
(35:12):
It's part of our reptilian brain.
It's part of who we are.
And instead of shoving it aside, I think part of what we can do for ourselves is to learnto sort of take it along for the ride.
Embrace it, exactly.
it.
It's not easy.
(35:32):
It's easy to say, I'm still doing I'm still learning that relationship as well with fearand anxiety and anxiety with public speaking.
I would say I also very much struggled even to speak up in meetings was very hard for mefor a very long time.
And what I think one small thing we can do for each other is if you're part of a meetingand you've already kind of done this work and you're
(35:57):
you're confident enough and don't have that challenge anymore.
And you notice somebody sitting in a meeting, such as a fellow woman, and you know them.
Like, you know one-on-one they've got something to say.
Just very, in a nice way, just ask them a question or ask them to share what they'rethinking or a specific piece that you know they have the answer to.
(36:22):
Ask them to share the solution.
I think
Opening up the opportunity for them to speak is sometimes just the tiny bit that that'sneeded and will be helpful Yeah, yeah people have done it for me So and I think that's
part of them part of the intent and joy of this podcast is
(36:47):
opening up that space where we're gonna sit and have this one-on-one amazing conversation.
And yes, you might be scared, you might be nervous, might, what are all those feelings?
That's okay.
It's okay.
I think I share this with a few other people.
I don't know if I've shared this on the podcast though.
My first podcast episode that I published, I agonized over how I sounded.
(37:09):
I rerecorded it at least 10 times.
And I will tell you, if I listened to it today, I would probably say,
all the things I did wrong, right, and could have done better.
But I made a promise last year for Women in Construction Week, I would launch the firstone.
And so I hit publish and I was terrified.
Terrified, anxious, couldn't sleep.
(37:32):
I turned off every single electronic device in the house that I could think of because Ididn't want to, I was still worried about what would happen.
And then a week went by and nothing happened.
And so the beauty of it is, is I had created all those internal fears based on all myexperiences for myself.
And at end of the day, gotta let it fly.
(37:53):
And say what you in your mind.
Yeah.
I actually listened to that first podcast that you published and I think it was an amazingepisode, but I feel like a lot of us are at some portion or maybe even on a regular basis
are dealing with imposter syndrome.
And maybe thinking that we're not good enough for what we were doing, but I think thatthat episode was amazingly done and I, yeah, I loved it.
(38:22):
it.
Oddly enough, it's the most listened to one I have.
yeah, I would like to, I'm glad this Women in Construction Week is different and I'm gladpeople joined the conversation because speaking to the microphone by myself felt very
weird to me.
So I'm excited to have everybody join me.
(38:45):
So as we wrap up the other
question I make sure to ask everybody and this can be, you know, respond however isnatural.
But are there other women in the industry you've learned from or been mentored by or youjust want to give a shout out to that you want to elevate?
I have so many amazing women that I've came across that have been real badasses in whatthey're doing and not
(39:12):
just technically, but just being amazing humans and being amazing to work with and helpinguplifting others in the industry.
I have honestly too many to name, but I also feel like I owe this shout out to my mom justbecause she has been always my biggest advocate.
(39:35):
and she was the reason I thought that I could be whatever I want and I can do whatever Iwant.
in the field or go to any field that I think I enjoy.
So, yeah, I feel like she's a powerhouse and I always look up to her.
she's not an Indian industry, she's a pharmacist, but I feel like she's always been myrole model.
(40:07):
out to your mom then.
Also being a pharmacist from what I've seen is hard work.
So that's awesome.
Well, is there any final thoughts or anything we haven't touched on for specifically Womenin Construction Week that you'd like to share or bring forward?
(40:29):
no, nothing really.
The only other thing that I was thinking as, I was just thinking about women inconstruction and just being in the industry, I feel like something else that would be
helpful, for us to do is advocate for.
other women, if you see someone is doing an amazing job, give them the feedback.
(40:54):
They might have a bad day or they like everyone will enjoy having that feedback.
So speak up, give that feedback.
I'm sure everyone will enjoy it.
Even go to their managers and give the feedback on how amazing they're doing.
So I think it's important to acknowledge the good work that you're doing.
give feedback.
(41:16):
Also receive feedback.
I think people are very uncomfortable sometimes with that.
I've had to learn, just say thank you and move on.
It's okay.
Be uncomfortable.
Thanks for watching.
I really appreciate you taking the time to come on the show today and I hope everyone goesand looks at fire protection engineering and gets excited about it because it is super
(41:43):
awesome and a needed profession in our industry.
It is, yeah.
Thank you for having me here.
It was amazing having this discussion with you.
Thank you.
Thank you for tuning in to today's episode of The Construction Cafe.
(42:03):
We hope you found our conversation as inspiring as your next big project.
Remember, you can dive deeper into the resources and topics we discuss by connecting withus on LinkedIn and Instagram.
Just search for The Construction Cafe.
Don't miss out on future episodes.
Be sure to follow us on Spotify, Podbean, and Apple Podcasts to keep the conversationgoing.
(42:24):
If you're passionate about the construction industry and have a story to share, we'd loveto hear from you.
Visit our website at the constructioncafe.com and drop us a note.
Let's keep building better together.
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