May 7, 2025 • 42 mins
In this episode of The Construction Cafe, Tristen Magallanes speaks with Sonya Bohmann, Executive Director of the Construction Industry Alliance for Suicide Prevention, about the critical link between mental health and safety in the construction industry. In honor of Construction Safety Week and Mental Health Awareness Month, they discuss the cultural barriers to mental health conversations, the risk factors unique to construction, and the importance of approachable, actionable resources. Sonya shares how CIASP is helping companies of all sizes take meaningful steps—through tools like the stand-up pledge, needs analysis, and free trainings—to support worker well-being and prevent suicide. This episode is a call to action: standing up for mental health is standing up for safety.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Welcome to the Construction Cafe, where the buzz of the construction industry meets thewarmth of a friendly conversation.
I'm your host, Tristen Magallanes.
Join me at our virtual cafe as we explore the foundations of construction culture, sip oncutting edge concepts, and amplify the unspoken voices in our industry.
So grab a cup of your favorite beverage, pull up a seat, and let's build more than juststructures, let's build connections.
(00:33):
This is the Construction Cafe.
All right, folks, welcome back to the construction cafe.
We took a little break if anybody didn't notice.
(00:53):
Did a little quick vacation time, but we are back to start discussing both constructionsafety week and mental health awareness month.
Two topics that are near and dear to my heart.
Joined today by Sonya Bohmann Sonya, why don't you introduce yourself?
Tell us a about yourself, what organization you're with.
(01:14):
Great, thank you.
As you said, my name is Sonya Bohmann and I am the Executive Director of the ConstructionIndustry Alliance for Suicide Prevention.
We are a national nonprofit that focuses on construction mental health and suicideprevention.
We grew out of the Construction Financial Management Association back in, we reallystarted after an article was written in their magazine called Building Profits.
(01:38):
It was written in 2015 by Cal Beyer and Dr.
Sally Spencer Thomas.
And they initially just highlighted the fact that there is a growing problem with mentalhealth and suicide in construction.
And then on the heels of that article, the CDC came out with their first set of statisticsin 2016 that showed that construction is number two and when you add an extraction, it
(01:59):
becomes number one.
And so CFMA had summits around the country and really started tackling this on a broaderscale.
And in 2018, it was decided that we should have our own standalone 501C3 and we formedthat.
And between 2018 and 2023, when I joined the organization, it was 100 % volunteer, reallyrun by people from the industry or industry adjacent that wanted to make a difference in
(02:28):
construction mental health and suicide prevention and put their heart and soul intocreating a really great organization.
In 2023, I joined them, May 1st of 2023.
So it'll be two years tomorrow.
And we've really been able to do some exciting and phenomenal things with growing ourmission and growing people that we are pulling into the fold.
(02:53):
We've expanded the board.
We've expanded our fellowship on LinkedIn and just places where we're trying to raiseawareness.
I want to say I saw a presentation at New York Build.
That's where I actually, before I was introduced to you separately by Sean, I sat througha presentation.
(03:16):
I forget who it was, I apologize.
Yes, yes.
That was not in 2024, but I think it might have been 2023.
yes yeah
So I was really, I know it's kind of weird to say I was excited to see a group focusing onsomething that kind of is a difficult topic, but I was actually excited to see it because
(03:40):
as somebody who really advocates for mental health, both bringing awareness of it, butalso addressing it and providing resources and advocating for people to talk openly about
it, I was just super excited to see that.
So.
And I think my second episode for my podcast I ever recorded was like me chattering onabout some of those statistics.
(04:06):
So it's fun to finally have somebody to talk to about it that has probably more knowledgeand information than I do.
So I appreciate you coming on.
uh
conversation.
And you're right.
And ironically, Stuart was the president of CFMA when this whole conversation started.
So it's full circle a little bit,
(04:27):
That's kind of cool.
Well, and the fact that Sean suggested, because I was talking with him about what topicsand who should I bring on and he immediately had said, do.
So it's just so cool that it's a big construction is a big world, but also a very smallworld.
small world.
Absolutely interconnected in all great ways.
Absolutely.
um In the past couple years, tell me a little bit about the evolution of the nonprofit.
(04:53):
You know, you mentioned, you you have full time, you're full time the last couple years,but more about the details of that evolution would be really interesting to understand.
So I guess I have a bit of a unicorn in the nonprofit world because I have a nonprofitboard that is exceptional.
And I know that that doesn't happen.
And it certainly sounds like I am blowing smoke somewhere.
(05:17):
But honestly, I work for really great people that care so much about this mission andreally focus on helping the broader spectrum.
So our board is made up of
Like I said construction so we have people that work literally in construction companiesbig small medium, you know Some are high-rise some are trenching all over and then we have
(05:42):
construction adjacent so we have Some suppliers and then we have a software company aspart of our board construction software And we have researchers but all of them bring
One, the fact that they are working board members, meaning not just in their own jobs, butthey sit on different committees to help move forward what we're talking about.
(06:05):
So we've grown the board from nine when I started to 15.
And we have succession planning now.
So people that want to join the board and we bring them up through our committeestructure.
So you start by joining either our education committee or our marketing committee or ourfundraising.
and they get to be part of what we do and how we do it.
And then those people then say, listen, okay, I've done this.
(06:27):
get it.
I know what you're all about.
I'm in.
I wanna be a board member.
And so we move that process, but they all do such amazing things and they're open towhatever zany idea I have.
And they're been.
Nice, I love it.
But they're, you know, they really are just about finding unique ways to meet the industrywhere it's at.
(06:53):
And we know that that's not a one size fits all.
And so some people gravitate to those statistics and some people gravitate to talkingabout things like self care and some of them want to talk about music.
And so we've created a Spotify playlist for songs that get everybody excited.
ah You know, we have all kinds of different.
(07:13):
sort of angles to talking about mental health and suicide prevention and construction.
And so that's part of that evolution.
making that conversation approachable and whatever pathway that folks need it to be isreally important, right?
It's not just gonna be one way to talk about something.
Yeah, that goes for pretty much anything, I think.
(07:37):
But specifically, these topics, which, know, suicide is a difficult topic to bring forwarda lot often and m just mental health in general.
em
construction being, you know, number two.
That's, you know, my dad is a carpenter.
I grew up around this industry and it kind of tracks with what I've seen in the industryquite a while.
(08:02):
And I'm very friendly with people across the board in the industry in different types ofroles and adjacent industries.
Are there any specific leading indicators or areas that are causing this to
have construction beat number two that you can point us to.
So the risk factors are pretty uh significant in the construction industry.
(08:25):
So if you think about sort of who we are as construction workers, and I say we, I comefrom construction, light construction, remodels, refreshes, facilities, maintenance, but
worked with subcontractors for over a decade.
And so, you know, if you kind of track that stoic tough guy mentality that is prevalent inthe industry, that's certainly a piece of it because we don't like to ask for help, right?
(08:49):
Yup.
other side is there's so much chronic pain in our industry.
And so whether or not you're living in pain and there's that constant sort of nagging achethat happens all the time, or you're medicating that pain, whether it's prescription or
non-prescription.
And so sometimes there is a co-occurring substance use disorder that goes along with it.
(09:09):
There is...
access to lethal means, there is instability from finances, there's a large veteranpopulation.
And so when you add all of these things together, it really starts to paint a picture ofsignificance in our industry that leads to us being number two.
(09:31):
Yeah, stacking of those risk factors.
It's like you're just stacking the next brick on top of the backs of everyone in thisindustry of it's not just one thing, it's 10.
And that is impactful.
I recently was listening, I can't remember if it was a podcast or like a YouTube, whateverthey call those, uh videocast?
(09:54):
I don't know.
I don't know what the word is.
I have the wrong word, but I know whatever.
uh
And somebody was saying that the struggle right now with having enough labor to meet thedemands of construction needs is forcing a lot of our labor to be working longer hours,
further away from home.
(10:14):
uh Their bodies are being stressed more.
And that is actually potentially going to see an increase in mental health struggle,potentially in suicides in our industry.
And that's really concerning given that we already have such a difficult struggle.
Mm-hmm.
I heard that and we talk a lot about the productivity rates when it comes to creating newsolutions for our industry.
(10:36):
And I'm like, yes, of course we want to do that.
But I don't think people pause to think sometimes about the mental health impact that hason our labor force.
And so just floating that as a new thing I just heard, I was like, maybe we should stoptalking about production for revenue and talk about talking about production solutions to
help the health of our workforce.
(10:58):
So, yeah.
hope is the antidote to suicide, right?
And what I'm hopeful for is that we have sort of three segments of our industry.
We have our older workers, our seasoned workers, I'll call them, who have been in theindustry for some time.
And they're going to continue to be here and do things the way that they've always doneit, right?
(11:23):
OK.
So we've got our seasons work, but those seasoned workers are coming to a point wherethey're going to start rotating out of the industry because they're hitting retirement and
they're ready to move on to other things.
Unfortunately, we have a bit of a labor gap, right?
Because for years we told kids coming out of school, high school, that if you didn't go tocollege, you were less than.
(11:47):
And if you went into a trade, it's because you weren't capable and all of these things,which we know now is
complete, so not true, right?
And the world would not exist without construction.
And we saw that very clearly during COVID, right?
If you were in construction, you were considered an essential worker and you continued towork and make money.
(12:08):
So we know that that doesn't exist, but we have this bubble there.
But what I'm hopeful for is that that next generation
that generation is smarter and wiser about mental health.
They're willing to talk about it.
And what we can do is then bridge some of that gap and start having those conversationsbecause where we do have that labor gap, we still have some of those people, but their
(12:33):
kids are now entering the industry and their kids are being more open about theconversation than ever.
And it is much more of a mainstreamed conversation.
We train it in high schools now and we train it in elementary schools and junior highs.
So if we can start making it a mainstream conversation, because if we think about whereOSHA was and the focus for even 10 years ago, we weren't talking about it, right?
(13:00):
No one talked about it.
Safety stand downs weren't really a thing.
OSHA Safe and Sound Week didn't exist as much or as prevalently, right?
And so if we can...
start having conversations about mental health, just like we have conversations about fallprotection, we're gonna start getting there.
So I'm hopeful that we can start to bridge that gap and really start to have realconversations.
(13:24):
Instead of whispering about cancer, we now talk about it out loud.
We're gonna get there with mental health.
We just have to have conversations like this, really.
I absolutely agree.
There was a meeting, not going to say where, who, with, whatever I was in.
And case in point example is somebody I noticed, you notice people's behavior sometimes isa little bit different than normal.
(13:50):
Like they show up a little bit different.
I remember saying, hey, like, are you doing okay?
And it was a small group of people.
And they were like, yeah, I'm fine.
And I kind of looked at them.
you know how people possibly, I am fine.
You get that I'm fine all the time.
And uh then he said, well, do you want the real answer?
(14:12):
And I said, well, if you trust everybody on this call, yeah, I absolutely want the realanswer.
And if it takes up the rest of the meeting, that's fine.
That's the kind of interactions we need to start having is that sometimes we need to putaside the business moment and have the people conversation about something that's
on their mind.
And it ended up being an incredibly important conversation because it was actuallysomething that was impacting their mental health greatly.
(14:38):
And I'm thankful that they opened up and trusted us and shared it.
And I'm also very proud of how everyone responded in that moment.
But that's we need more of that in these types of conversations to show up of it beingokay to be vulnerable, to not be perfect, to not show up exactly as you always need to.
And I think it's incredible that your organization is working on that.
(15:02):
with that, you know, one of the, I know you're, your group specifically is out there tohelp showcase, leverage, introduce people to lots of resources that, that companies, not
just construction, but I would say all, any industry could probably use some of these.
And so what are some of those resources?
How do people find them and engage with you?
(15:25):
Yeah, so you can visit our website, which is preventconstructionsuicide.com.
A little bit wordy, but if you look up CIASP, it'll come up.
Right?
So our website has lots of great resources on it.
But just to take maybe three of my favorites, I would say that the first one is our needsanalysis.
(15:47):
And that goes to any company, whether you're large, medium, or small.
And it gives you a bit of a kind of choose your own adventure, I call it, where you startwith a tree process and, you know, do you have a mental health and wellness program?
Yes or no.
If yes, then great.
What do you have involved in that and who's responsible for it?
(16:07):
Because if you say yes, but no one's responsible for it, guess what?
You don't really have it.
And the other side of that is if no, then here's what you've got to do next, right?
And it allows you to continue to sort of build that out until you've established what youhave and where your gaps are.
And then those gaps allow you then to dig further into our resources and figure out whichones you need.
(16:32):
So one that's easy to start with that anyone can implement are our toolbox talks.
And they're in both English and Spanish.
And so is that needs analysis, but.
They're in both English and Spanish and it makes it really easy.
And they go with the word stand.
So S is for safety, T is for training, A is for awareness, N is for normalize, and D isfor decrease.
(16:53):
And they just talk about 10, probably 10, 15, maybe 20 minute conversation on each one ofthose topics.
And you can do them one a week for every week of May, which is mental health month, orSeptember, which is suicide prevention month.
You could do one a month for the next five months.
(17:13):
You could do five weeks worth.
You could do five days.
You could do them all in one week if you want to do them during Safety Stand Down Week orSave and Sound Week, whatever it looks like for you.
But they're available and you can use them as needed.
And then we have some tools that go with some of them.
So whether it is using a poster that we have on our website that you can then put up thewarning sign so anyone can use them.
(17:38):
or getting some hard hat stickers from us that have 988 on them or the coins that everyonehas, but just being able to hand them out to your teams and say, here's a resource.
We also have wallet cards that have the warning signs on them.
So you can have them kind of right at your fingertips, but they're great talking points.
They're easy and maybe not so aggressively in your face on the topic, but it's a great wayto start the conversation.
(18:07):
Yeah, absolutely.
there, you go into a bigger training session, right?
But that just sort of wets the conversation, gets people excited, gets people starting tosay, like, OK, people do want to have this conversation with me.
Or maybe I do need to know what our EAP is or how to access it.
Or if I don't have an EAP, what other resources are available to me?
(18:28):
Yeah, or I'm super frustrated with accessing it because it's hard.
Well, and even people who have full medical that has mental health benefits, a lot ofthat's really tough to navigate.
It's hard, there's long wait times.
And that's not a judgment of any of that.
It's just a of a state of how it is right now.
My husband's a veteran, even through the VA, often the wait times are six to nine monthsto just get into your first appointment to get care.
(18:57):
if you know how to access it even, right?
That's the other challenge is learning how to access it.
Yep.
specifically talking about veteran population, my husband went, it's very differentaccessing care while you're in service versus when you reach civilian life.
And that was a whole sort of learning curve I had to I helped him with, honestly.
And so even things like that, like, you know, having folks who understand those challengesthat can help you navigate them, I think is really, really important.
(19:26):
You know, and it can be overwhelming to the point where people just
tap out and just stop, right?
And that's the part where I'm like hopeful that we can continue to support people as theytry to navigate accessing resources because I do find that to be in the current state of
our uh industry.
(19:46):
That can be the biggest challenge is that the resources that might be there getting tothem might be the biggest toughest part.
And when you're in the middle of a mental health crisis or even suicide,
I probably said that wrong, but I feel like the last thing you want to do is sit on holdfor an hour to try to get an appointment to talk to somebody.
(20:11):
Correct.
Yeah, absolutely not.
And that's why the helpers are so important in the conversation.
So there is a statistic from Mates in Construction out of Australia ah that shows thatreally where you get your exponential returns is not introducing someone in crisis to how
to access their care, but to training the helpers on how to recognize when someone else isin crisis and helping them access the care.
(20:37):
Okay.
You know, if you think about sort of the most unimaginable pain that you've ever been in,whether it's a broken toe, labor, a kidney stone, whatever that looks like, but whatever
that is, you have tunnel vision where all you want is that pain to go away.
And that's all you can think about.
(20:58):
When you're in that moment, that's not the place where you have time to Google how to
find your access your EAP, right?
Or even sometimes to access 988 because you might be in such a place that you can'tremember that those three digits are how you can get the help that you need.
But if you and I are having conversations about how to look for the warning signs, then Imight be able to say, like, I'm concerned about you.
(21:26):
And when you are doing some of these things, you might be thinking of suicide, are you?
And then,
You say, hopefully we'll say yes, just like in that conversation where someone sharedabout their mental health, but it gives you an opportunity to then say, let me help you
access the resources that you need.
And together we can get you where you need to be.
(21:49):
I think there's that important distinction or something you just said that I think is adistinction folks might need to hear is, it's, let me help you get the resources you need,
not let me fix your problem.
Very different.
And a lot of people, I think, want to go towards, and this is human nature, right?
And I want to help fix it.
(22:11):
But that's probably not the best thing either is.
let me get you to the right resources that have the right tools, skills, and ability tohelp you best.
And knowing that doing that alone is helping them.
Fix it or improve it.
I don't want to say fix.
Fix is a really tough word.
on the road to better health, right?
(22:33):
absolutely.
it's, it's, that's a really, really, really, I've, I've had people approach me indifferent parts of my life being like, oh, you should do this.
You should, I'm like, I don't need you to fix this.
I just shut your mouth.
So here's a really interesting analogy that I've heard.
And that is if somebody was in the middle of a heart attack, right, you would administerCPR and then you would get them to the hospital because you are not a cardiac surgeon,
(23:01):
right?
And in that process, you wouldn't lecture them on diet or exercise or any of those thingsbecause that's not gonna fix the problem at that moment.
So...
we need to start thinking about how we approach mental health as well.
And that is sort of that stabilize and refer, right?
(23:24):
such a great analogy.
I think people can maybe tangibly put themselves in that thought process of like, if I'min the of heart attack, I'm going to hear anything you have to say about any of that.
And you wouldn't do that.
You would quickly stabilize and refer.
And that's what we need to do in a mental health crisis as well.
And if we start thinking about that, like we're all trained on CPR.
(23:47):
Everybody knows how to do CPR or the majority of us, especially in construction.
But statistically speaking, you are more likely to come in contact with someone on a jobsite that has a mental health crisis than a cardiac crisis.
we need to start applying those same theories, stabilize and refer.
(24:08):
Yeah, well, and then I think on the back end of that, think the fear of those goingthrough the crisis is they're going to be looked at differently.
They're not going to have their jobs.
going to be like, there's all these stories we tell ourselves that, you know, so beingcareful around, you know, how you treat them and things you say to them and the words you
(24:34):
use, I think is incredibly important now.
And I think
If I remember correctly, one of the resources that you share on your site is like a, atype of like first aid training that you can go through for, am I remembering this
correctly?
do.
We have a couple of different options.
One of the things that's available on our website is that you can take Living Works StartTraining for free.
(24:54):
And it's an introduction to suicide prevention, 60 to 90 minutes self-paced training thatreally kind of teaches you to recognize those warning signs and to have that conversation
and connect someone to those resources that they need.
uh So that one is for free on our website, but we also offer for someone who has movedthrough some of those basic trainings, and I don't recommend that you start here, but you
(25:21):
really do start with Living Works Start, because it's the introduction.
But we do offer in conjunction with a partnership we have with Independence Blue CrossBlue Shield of Illinois.
We are offering mental health first aid training four times this year for free.
That would be incredible if more folks did these types of trainings.
(25:41):
Just start with the free one.
It's 60 to 90 minutes.
It's not a lot of time.
You have, I think you have 30 days to complete it because they want you to go fullythrough the module so they don't want to leave it open too long.
But it really gets you the introduction to the conversation, teaches you how to asksomebody if they're thinking of suicide and then how to do that referral piece of it.
(26:06):
And then at that point you say, like, I'm ready to be a mental health champion, whateverthat looks like for you.
then that's where you assess what your next training should be, how in depth you want itto be.
Are you ready to create safety plans like one of legal works is continued plans look like,or are you ready to become a mental health first aider?
And then how do you access those resources because there's tons of them available.
(26:29):
That is such a great opportunity for folks and I encourage everyone to at least attemptthat free training.
I mean, I can guarantee you doom scroll on social media more than 60 minutes in a month.
So take that 60 minutes and divert it here.
And here's the deal.
If you never have to use it, great.
It's just like having first aid.
(26:50):
The hope is you never have to use it.
But in my year, 25 years of having first aid, I have used it six times.
my goodness, I was just about to say that I've never used it, knock on wood, and I'm happyabout that, right?
unfortunately have had to use it repeatedly on project sites and then I've actually hadtwo major car accidents happen in front of me.
And I'm grateful that I have the training enough to at least respond to a situation andjust be present for people.
(27:18):
that's because I would want that, right?
Like I would want somebody to have that training.
So I think of it the same way.
Like at minimum have that basic information because you never know when it might come inhandy.
And the hope is you never have to use it.
correct, right?
Good skill of animal, if nothing else.
you've mentioned 9-8-8 a few times and I just wanted to because I don't know thateverybody knows what that is.
(27:45):
So 988 is the crisis suicide prevention hotline number.
It used to be a 10-digit number.
I'll date myself a little bit and say it was a logic song that listed the whole 10-digitnumber.
uh Lots of conversations about it, right?
I don't remember, I didn't remember 9-8-8.
I remember the original one.
(28:06):
song, yeah.
Yep.
So in the last two years, 988 has been the truncated number.
It's similar to 911 in that it's that three digit dialing.
gets you access to the resource that you need.
What's different about 911 though is that 911 can geo point exactly where you are and theycan send help immediately.
(28:29):
988 doesn't do that for many reasons.
Much of it is that
We know that people want to remain anonymous in this conversation and they're worriedabout what will happen.
And so the way that 9-8-8 works is that you reach out to them, you can call, you can text,or you can chat, and then you will be connected to the closest cell tower to where you
(28:49):
are.
And then that call will then be routed to a crisis center that is closest to you in manycases.
Sometimes they're overburdened and they are not able to take that contact.
So it'll roll to a regional number.
And then sometimes if the regional number is overburdened, it will roll to a nationalnumber.
But there are options to do that.
(29:10):
And the goal of 988 is to get a commitment to safety.
It is not to come and get anyone.
It is not to lock anyone up.
It is not to...
take away your rights in any way, it is to get a commitment to safety so that they knowthat the person on the line is going to be here tomorrow.
And in 98 % of the cases, they are able to get that commitment to safety on that call.
(29:35):
In the other 2 % of the cases, they will activate crisis in some way.
So maybe that is a mobile crisis center.
They'll work on a plan to get you to a crisis intervention location.
or in worst case scenarios, they will, with permission, dispatch 911.
okay, okay.
I appreciate that they give people agency.
(29:56):
mean, and that's part of this process.
It's not about coming to take away or control.
There's agency in the whole step of the way.
And I think actually my understanding is that agency is a very important piece of therecovery portion of this.
So are there, talking about like how...
(30:17):
people engage is one thing, but then how do companies engage with your organization?
Like what does that look like?
I think in many of the same ways, we ask people to take our stand-up pledge to say, standup to suicide prevention.
And we have almost 1,000 stakeholders right now.
It's 100 % free.
And I want to be really clear about two things.
(30:37):
One is all of our resources are always going to be 100 % free.
Now, we may eventually get to a point where we'd say, here are all your free resources.
And if you want to go further, here are some vetted paid resources.
But it'll be very clear that there's always a free option as well.
And the other thing that it's important to note is that we are labor agnostic.
(31:00):
So we are available to anyone in the industry, whether you're large, medium, small, union,marriage shop, it doesn't matter to us.
Suicide doesn't discriminate and neither do we.
So wherever you fall in this process or wherever you fall in that construction ecosystem,
We want you to have the tools to put together a mental health and wellness program.
(31:23):
And so you access them just like that.
You start with a standup pledge.
You move to that needs analysis.
And then from the needs analysis, you figure out where your gaps are.
And then maybe it's toolbox talks.
Maybe it is some videos that we have on our website.
Maybe it is engaging your employees in something as simple as sharing the fact that wehave a free mental health screening tool.
(31:47):
anyone can use and it's 100 % anonymous and it allows you to get a baseline on what you'refeeling.
Some of that agency, a little bit of control over before I call my EAP, do I really needto?
Is what I'm feeling normal?
Am I in crisis?
I don't even know because I've never experienced this before.
So it gives you a little bit of that control and it allows someone to kind of walkthemselves through that path.
(32:13):
What's great about the resources is that
If you are in leadership and you're trying to figure out where to start, you've got astarting point.
If you are in middle management and you want to start having a conversation, you've got astarting point.
And if you're an employee looking for some way to get some agency over what you're doing,you've got a starting point.
(32:34):
And there's places for anyone to go to be able to access something that will hopefullyfill some of that gap and create a little bit of hope.
that A, you're not alone and B, that there's something right at your fingertips that youdon't have to obsessively Google about because it's right there.
Well, in the point of you're not alone, think that the fact that we are number two, that'snot a positive, by the way, but the fact that we're not, I mean, there's a lot of reasons
(33:03):
you want to you want to rank top three in a lot of things, but not this one.
But just the fact that that statistic is out there, I think should tell people that youaren't alone.
There are so many people in this industry that
are struggling probably with something very similar to what you are, that you're notalone.
(33:24):
so that's just a staggering statistic to tell you in a very non-emotional way that you'renot alone.
Unfortunately, I would say, but it's true.
um Are there any goals right now that CISP has to expand its reach, its research, theimpact you're making on the industry?
(33:45):
Yeah, absolutely.
So we've got some exciting things happening right now.
We just launched a podcast on Monday.
Thank you.
Thank you.
So that just happened.
And it's really about having conversations that, like the one that we're having today,that are more personable, more about sort of the state of what's happening.
(34:06):
So our May cast is going to be on, we have one on resilience and then we have one focusedon
what Canada is doing because we have a Canadian board member and we know that things arehappening in Canada as well as in the US and we're hoping to help them create a program
just like we looked to Australia and we look to the UK when we're putting together what wedo and kind of creating synergy around that, right?
(34:35):
So those are our first two and we have plans to obviously do two a month for as long as wecan.
Yeah.
The other thing that we started is a webinar series called Constructing Change.
And our first webinar was Women in Construction.
We had some really phenomenal guests on that.
So you can find that on YouTube.
(34:56):
Yeah.
I'll send you a link to it.
It was awesome.
um And then we're going to have one on loss survivorship in September because there issuch an interesting conversation around who gets to say they're a loss survivor, who feels
like they get to say that they're a loss survivor.
We're going to do one on recovery and what that looks like substance use in October.
(35:19):
And then in November, we're going to wrap up the year with grief in the holidays.
That has, yeah, those are some really, I would say important topics.
Some of those I've heard before, some of them, the lost survivor, I haven't actually heardthat term much before.
So I look forward to the webinar coming out so I can understand more what that means.
(35:41):
I think people are sometimes hesitant to claim a label, a title, a space.
But then there's sometimes empowerment in doing so.
It's a hard title to have to say you are, right?
So I lost my sister to suicide 17 years ago.
And in our family, it took a really long time to say that she died by suicide becausenobody wants that stigma, right?
(36:05):
Nobody wants to say that that happened to you.
And so what does that look like?
And in a world where we spend so much time with our coworkers and we rely on them soheavily,
when you lose someone close to you that's a coworker, what do you call that?
And how do you associate with that?
And what is the guilt or not guilt that goes with that?
(36:27):
So we really wanted to explore that and open up that conversation so that people feel likethey have a safe space to connect into and land in all of that, which was part of why we
thought that might be a great topic.
a language to talking about it, right?
Like maybe you don't quite know, like I've said a few times during this episode, like I'mnot sure I said that quite right.
(36:50):
I'm confident enough at this day and age to be able to say that I'm not sure I said itright and still say the things, right?
I think I've just reached that.
But a lot of people are really uncomfortable to even try to get the words out.
They don't want to offend somebody.
They don't want to, like they're uncomfortable.
So.
I think listening to some of these webinars just may help you have language to talk aboutthings too that could be really useful to continuing.
(37:15):
the thing that we're really excited about is something called our pathway model.
And it really is a continuation of building out those resources.
But again, you go back to starting at the stand up pledge, you move to that needsanalysis, and then you look at the buckets that are in sort of the space to build out your
own mental health and wellness program.
(37:36):
Is it awareness that you need?
Is it the
the support or structure that you need or is it the incident management piece that youneed?
And what does, where do you go?
Because no matter when you come to that conversation, you could Google and certainly findlots and lots and lots of options for you.
Some might relate to construction, some may not, some might be a hundred pages long andsome might be two paragraphs, but how do you know what's been vetted?
(38:05):
How do you know what makes sense?
How do you know what relates?
And if you are coming from it in a intervention or that uh structure piece of it or apostvention or incident management piece of it, you may not have the time to vet those
resources appropriately because you're in the middle of trying to stabilize yourworkforce, right?
(38:27):
So one place that has resources that we've created and then resources that we're pullingin from the industry.
We know that we are stronger if we lock arms with the people that are already doing this.
So why not share the resources that we all have, put them in one place, have a onerepository that people can go to to be able to access what they need when they need it
(38:50):
versus scrambling to find the information.
And so that's really, we have a think tank of 10 industry participants that are reallyworking on pulling all of this information together.
so that we'll have a hard launch hopefully by September and potentially fully working bythe end of the year.
(39:11):
that's super exciting to have that single force of resources.
You don't have to go and like Google reviews, Yelp reviews, like searching for what's beeneffective, like having a trusted resource to know like these are the top effective things
I could try or leverage if I'm struggling with implementation, education, whatever it isthat you need to add to your program.
(39:34):
And um the fact that at the moment most of...
all of it's free, think makes it approachable for any size of a company, whether you are alarge company that does have the funds to spend on it or a smaller company that maybe
doesn't have the money to put toward the specific type of program.
um But you could download these toolbox talks for free and do that as one of thoseefforts, right?
(39:57):
And it's approachable and it's easy um and reliable.
other side of it is the statistics are relevant.
They have been vetted.
They are, you you can confidently use the materials and know that it is, it's appropriate.
Well, I really appreciate you taking the time to talk with us today and really kind ofeducate our listenership.
(40:22):
I think is the right word.
Yeah, I know, listenership.
I sometimes share video clips.
So our folks in the cafe.
Because this is a really important topic.
And as we go again into safety week next week, and suicide prevention, in my opinion, is apart of safety for our industry.
We have mental health awareness month and then September is suicide prevention month.
(40:46):
Just allowing the moment to focus in really hard on these topics and sharing theseconversations and these resources with folks I think is really, important.
I'm the one that geeks out about statistics and data.
I tried not to do that this episode, so hopefully I did a good job.
um But yeah, any final thoughts or things you want to share with folks?
(41:10):
Two things, one is that anyone can do something in this conversation, right?
You don't have to have letters behind your name.
You can always be a helper.
And the other one is, is reach out if you need help.
We have resources available.
Follow us on LinkedIn.
We post five days a week.
Some of it's statistics, some of it's some other things, but there's always a resourceavailable to you.
(41:32):
Great, I really appreciate it and we'll be sharing resources as well for you guys.
Thanks!
Thank you for tuning in to today's episode of The Construction Cafe.
We hope you found our conversation as inspiring as your next big project.
(41:53):
Remember, you can dive deeper into the resources and topics we discuss by connecting withus on LinkedIn and Instagram.
Just search for The Construction Cafe.
Don't miss out on future episodes.
Be sure to follow us on Spotify, Podbean, and Apple Podcasts to keep the conversationgoing.
If you're passionate about the construction industry and have a story to share, we'd loveto hear from you.
(42:14):
Visit our website at the constructioncafe.com and drop us a note.
Let's keep building better together.
Welcome to the Construction Cafe, where the buzz of the construction industry meets thewarmth of a friendly conversation.
I'm your host, Tristen Magallanes.
Join me at our virtual cafe as we explore the foundations of construction culture, sip oncutting edge concepts, and amplify the unspoken voices in our industry.
So grab a cup of your favorite beverage, pull up a seat, and let's build more than juststructures, let's build connections.
(00:33):
This is the Construction Cafe.
All right, folks, welcome back to the construction cafe.
We took a little break if anybody didn't notice.
(00:53):
Did a little quick vacation time, but we are back to start discussing both constructionsafety week and mental health awareness month.
Two topics that are near and dear to my heart.
Joined today by Sonya Bohmann Sonya, why don't you introduce yourself?
Tell us a about yourself, what organization you're with.
(01:14):
Great, thank you.
As you said, my name is Sonya Bohmann and I am the Executive Director of the ConstructionIndustry Alliance for Suicide Prevention.
We are a national nonprofit that focuses on construction mental health and suicideprevention.
We grew out of the Construction Financial Management Association back in, we reallystarted after an article was written in their magazine called Building Profits.
(01:38):
It was written in 2015 by Cal Beyer and Dr.
Sally Spencer Thomas.
And they initially just highlighted the fact that there is a growing problem with mentalhealth and suicide in construction.
And then on the heels of that article, the CDC came out with their first set of statisticsin 2016 that showed that construction is number two and when you add an extraction, it
(01:59):
becomes number one.
And so CFMA had summits around the country and really started tackling this on a broaderscale.
And in 2018, it was decided that we should have our own standalone 501C3 and we formedthat.
And between 2018 and 2023, when I joined the organization, it was 100 % volunteer, reallyrun by people from the industry or industry adjacent that wanted to make a difference in
(02:28):
construction mental health and suicide prevention and put their heart and soul intocreating a really great organization.
In 2023, I joined them, May 1st of 2023.
So it'll be two years tomorrow.
And we've really been able to do some exciting and phenomenal things with growing ourmission and growing people that we are pulling into the fold.
(02:53):
We've expanded the board.
We've expanded our fellowship on LinkedIn and just places where we're trying to raiseawareness.
I want to say I saw a presentation at New York Build.
That's where I actually, before I was introduced to you separately by Sean, I sat througha presentation.
(03:16):
I forget who it was, I apologize.
Yes, yes.
That was not in 2024, but I think it might have been 2023.
yes yeah
So I was really, I know it's kind of weird to say I was excited to see a group focusing onsomething that kind of is a difficult topic, but I was actually excited to see it because
(03:40):
as somebody who really advocates for mental health, both bringing awareness of it, butalso addressing it and providing resources and advocating for people to talk openly about
it, I was just super excited to see that.
So.
And I think my second episode for my podcast I ever recorded was like me chattering onabout some of those statistics.
(04:06):
So it's fun to finally have somebody to talk to about it that has probably more knowledgeand information than I do.
So I appreciate you coming on.
uh
conversation.
And you're right.
And ironically, Stuart was the president of CFMA when this whole conversation started.
So it's full circle a little bit,
(04:27):
That's kind of cool.
Well, and the fact that Sean suggested, because I was talking with him about what topicsand who should I bring on and he immediately had said, do.
So it's just so cool that it's a big construction is a big world, but also a very smallworld.
small world.
Absolutely interconnected in all great ways.
Absolutely.
um In the past couple years, tell me a little bit about the evolution of the nonprofit.
(04:53):
You know, you mentioned, you you have full time, you're full time the last couple years,but more about the details of that evolution would be really interesting to understand.
So I guess I have a bit of a unicorn in the nonprofit world because I have a nonprofitboard that is exceptional.
And I know that that doesn't happen.
And it certainly sounds like I am blowing smoke somewhere.
(05:17):
But honestly, I work for really great people that care so much about this mission andreally focus on helping the broader spectrum.
So our board is made up of
Like I said construction so we have people that work literally in construction companiesbig small medium, you know Some are high-rise some are trenching all over and then we have
(05:42):
construction adjacent so we have Some suppliers and then we have a software company aspart of our board construction software And we have researchers but all of them bring
One, the fact that they are working board members, meaning not just in their own jobs, butthey sit on different committees to help move forward what we're talking about.
(06:05):
So we've grown the board from nine when I started to 15.
And we have succession planning now.
So people that want to join the board and we bring them up through our committeestructure.
So you start by joining either our education committee or our marketing committee or ourfundraising.
and they get to be part of what we do and how we do it.
And then those people then say, listen, okay, I've done this.
(06:27):
get it.
I know what you're all about.
I'm in.
I wanna be a board member.
And so we move that process, but they all do such amazing things and they're open towhatever zany idea I have.
And they're been.
Nice, I love it.
But they're, you know, they really are just about finding unique ways to meet the industrywhere it's at.
(06:53):
And we know that that's not a one size fits all.
And so some people gravitate to those statistics and some people gravitate to talkingabout things like self care and some of them want to talk about music.
And so we've created a Spotify playlist for songs that get everybody excited.
ah You know, we have all kinds of different.
(07:13):
sort of angles to talking about mental health and suicide prevention and construction.
And so that's part of that evolution.
making that conversation approachable and whatever pathway that folks need it to be isreally important, right?
It's not just gonna be one way to talk about something.
Yeah, that goes for pretty much anything, I think.
(07:37):
But specifically, these topics, which, know, suicide is a difficult topic to bring forwarda lot often and m just mental health in general.
em
construction being, you know, number two.
That's, you know, my dad is a carpenter.
I grew up around this industry and it kind of tracks with what I've seen in the industryquite a while.
(08:02):
And I'm very friendly with people across the board in the industry in different types ofroles and adjacent industries.
Are there any specific leading indicators or areas that are causing this to
have construction beat number two that you can point us to.
So the risk factors are pretty uh significant in the construction industry.
(08:25):
So if you think about sort of who we are as construction workers, and I say we, I comefrom construction, light construction, remodels, refreshes, facilities, maintenance, but
worked with subcontractors for over a decade.
And so, you know, if you kind of track that stoic tough guy mentality that is prevalent inthe industry, that's certainly a piece of it because we don't like to ask for help, right?
(08:49):
Yup.
other side is there's so much chronic pain in our industry.
And so whether or not you're living in pain and there's that constant sort of nagging achethat happens all the time, or you're medicating that pain, whether it's prescription or
non-prescription.
And so sometimes there is a co-occurring substance use disorder that goes along with it.
(09:09):
There is...
access to lethal means, there is instability from finances, there's a large veteranpopulation.
And so when you add all of these things together, it really starts to paint a picture ofsignificance in our industry that leads to us being number two.
(09:31):
Yeah, stacking of those risk factors.
It's like you're just stacking the next brick on top of the backs of everyone in thisindustry of it's not just one thing, it's 10.
And that is impactful.
I recently was listening, I can't remember if it was a podcast or like a YouTube, whateverthey call those, uh videocast?
(09:54):
I don't know.
I don't know what the word is.
I have the wrong word, but I know whatever.
uh
And somebody was saying that the struggle right now with having enough labor to meet thedemands of construction needs is forcing a lot of our labor to be working longer hours,
further away from home.
(10:14):
uh Their bodies are being stressed more.
And that is actually potentially going to see an increase in mental health struggle,potentially in suicides in our industry.
And that's really concerning given that we already have such a difficult struggle.
Mm-hmm.
I heard that and we talk a lot about the productivity rates when it comes to creating newsolutions for our industry.
(10:36):
And I'm like, yes, of course we want to do that.
But I don't think people pause to think sometimes about the mental health impact that hason our labor force.
And so just floating that as a new thing I just heard, I was like, maybe we should stoptalking about production for revenue and talk about talking about production solutions to
help the health of our workforce.
(10:58):
So, yeah.
hope is the antidote to suicide, right?
And what I'm hopeful for is that we have sort of three segments of our industry.
We have our older workers, our seasoned workers, I'll call them, who have been in theindustry for some time.
And they're going to continue to be here and do things the way that they've always doneit, right?
(11:23):
OK.
So we've got our seasons work, but those seasoned workers are coming to a point wherethey're going to start rotating out of the industry because they're hitting retirement and
they're ready to move on to other things.
Unfortunately, we have a bit of a labor gap, right?
Because for years we told kids coming out of school, high school, that if you didn't go tocollege, you were less than.
(11:47):
And if you went into a trade, it's because you weren't capable and all of these things,which we know now is
complete, so not true, right?
And the world would not exist without construction.
And we saw that very clearly during COVID, right?
If you were in construction, you were considered an essential worker and you continued towork and make money.
(12:08):
So we know that that doesn't exist, but we have this bubble there.
But what I'm hopeful for is that that next generation
that generation is smarter and wiser about mental health.
They're willing to talk about it.
And what we can do is then bridge some of that gap and start having those conversationsbecause where we do have that labor gap, we still have some of those people, but their
(12:33):
kids are now entering the industry and their kids are being more open about theconversation than ever.
And it is much more of a mainstreamed conversation.
We train it in high schools now and we train it in elementary schools and junior highs.
So if we can start making it a mainstream conversation, because if we think about whereOSHA was and the focus for even 10 years ago, we weren't talking about it, right?
(13:00):
No one talked about it.
Safety stand downs weren't really a thing.
OSHA Safe and Sound Week didn't exist as much or as prevalently, right?
And so if we can...
start having conversations about mental health, just like we have conversations about fallprotection, we're gonna start getting there.
So I'm hopeful that we can start to bridge that gap and really start to have realconversations.
(13:24):
Instead of whispering about cancer, we now talk about it out loud.
We're gonna get there with mental health.
We just have to have conversations like this, really.
I absolutely agree.
There was a meeting, not going to say where, who, with, whatever I was in.
And case in point example is somebody I noticed, you notice people's behavior sometimes isa little bit different than normal.
(13:50):
Like they show up a little bit different.
I remember saying, hey, like, are you doing okay?
And it was a small group of people.
And they were like, yeah, I'm fine.
And I kind of looked at them.
you know how people possibly, I am fine.
You get that I'm fine all the time.
And uh then he said, well, do you want the real answer?
(14:12):
And I said, well, if you trust everybody on this call, yeah, I absolutely want the realanswer.
And if it takes up the rest of the meeting, that's fine.
That's the kind of interactions we need to start having is that sometimes we need to putaside the business moment and have the people conversation about something that's
on their mind.
And it ended up being an incredibly important conversation because it was actuallysomething that was impacting their mental health greatly.
(14:38):
And I'm thankful that they opened up and trusted us and shared it.
And I'm also very proud of how everyone responded in that moment.
But that's we need more of that in these types of conversations to show up of it beingokay to be vulnerable, to not be perfect, to not show up exactly as you always need to.
And I think it's incredible that your organization is working on that.
(15:02):
with that, you know, one of the, I know you're, your group specifically is out there tohelp showcase, leverage, introduce people to lots of resources that, that companies, not
just construction, but I would say all, any industry could probably use some of these.
And so what are some of those resources?
How do people find them and engage with you?
(15:25):
Yeah, so you can visit our website, which is preventconstructionsuicide.com.
A little bit wordy, but if you look up CIASP, it'll come up.
Right?
So our website has lots of great resources on it.
But just to take maybe three of my favorites, I would say that the first one is our needsanalysis.
(15:47):
And that goes to any company, whether you're large, medium, or small.
And it gives you a bit of a kind of choose your own adventure, I call it, where you startwith a tree process and, you know, do you have a mental health and wellness program?
Yes or no.
If yes, then great.
What do you have involved in that and who's responsible for it?
(16:07):
Because if you say yes, but no one's responsible for it, guess what?
You don't really have it.
And the other side of that is if no, then here's what you've got to do next, right?
And it allows you to continue to sort of build that out until you've established what youhave and where your gaps are.
And then those gaps allow you then to dig further into our resources and figure out whichones you need.
(16:32):
So one that's easy to start with that anyone can implement are our toolbox talks.
And they're in both English and Spanish.
And so is that needs analysis, but.
They're in both English and Spanish and it makes it really easy.
And they go with the word stand.
So S is for safety, T is for training, A is for awareness, N is for normalize, and D isfor decrease.
(16:53):
And they just talk about 10, probably 10, 15, maybe 20 minute conversation on each one ofthose topics.
And you can do them one a week for every week of May, which is mental health month, orSeptember, which is suicide prevention month.
You could do one a month for the next five months.
(17:13):
You could do five weeks worth.
You could do five days.
You could do them all in one week if you want to do them during Safety Stand Down Week orSave and Sound Week, whatever it looks like for you.
But they're available and you can use them as needed.
And then we have some tools that go with some of them.
So whether it is using a poster that we have on our website that you can then put up thewarning sign so anyone can use them.
(17:38):
or getting some hard hat stickers from us that have 988 on them or the coins that everyonehas, but just being able to hand them out to your teams and say, here's a resource.
We also have wallet cards that have the warning signs on them.
So you can have them kind of right at your fingertips, but they're great talking points.
They're easy and maybe not so aggressively in your face on the topic, but it's a great wayto start the conversation.
(18:07):
Yeah, absolutely.
there, you go into a bigger training session, right?
But that just sort of wets the conversation, gets people excited, gets people starting tosay, like, OK, people do want to have this conversation with me.
Or maybe I do need to know what our EAP is or how to access it.
Or if I don't have an EAP, what other resources are available to me?
(18:28):
Yeah, or I'm super frustrated with accessing it because it's hard.
Well, and even people who have full medical that has mental health benefits, a lot ofthat's really tough to navigate.
It's hard, there's long wait times.
And that's not a judgment of any of that.
It's just a of a state of how it is right now.
My husband's a veteran, even through the VA, often the wait times are six to nine monthsto just get into your first appointment to get care.
(18:57):
if you know how to access it even, right?
That's the other challenge is learning how to access it.
Yep.
specifically talking about veteran population, my husband went, it's very differentaccessing care while you're in service versus when you reach civilian life.
And that was a whole sort of learning curve I had to I helped him with, honestly.
And so even things like that, like, you know, having folks who understand those challengesthat can help you navigate them, I think is really, really important.
(19:26):
You know, and it can be overwhelming to the point where people just
tap out and just stop, right?
And that's the part where I'm like hopeful that we can continue to support people as theytry to navigate accessing resources because I do find that to be in the current state of
our uh industry.
(19:46):
That can be the biggest challenge is that the resources that might be there getting tothem might be the biggest toughest part.
And when you're in the middle of a mental health crisis or even suicide,
I probably said that wrong, but I feel like the last thing you want to do is sit on holdfor an hour to try to get an appointment to talk to somebody.
(20:11):
Correct.
Yeah, absolutely not.
And that's why the helpers are so important in the conversation.
So there is a statistic from Mates in Construction out of Australia ah that shows thatreally where you get your exponential returns is not introducing someone in crisis to how
to access their care, but to training the helpers on how to recognize when someone else isin crisis and helping them access the care.
(20:37):
Okay.
You know, if you think about sort of the most unimaginable pain that you've ever been in,whether it's a broken toe, labor, a kidney stone, whatever that looks like, but whatever
that is, you have tunnel vision where all you want is that pain to go away.
And that's all you can think about.
(20:58):
When you're in that moment, that's not the place where you have time to Google how to
find your access your EAP, right?
Or even sometimes to access 988 because you might be in such a place that you can'tremember that those three digits are how you can get the help that you need.
But if you and I are having conversations about how to look for the warning signs, then Imight be able to say, like, I'm concerned about you.
(21:26):
And when you are doing some of these things, you might be thinking of suicide, are you?
And then,
You say, hopefully we'll say yes, just like in that conversation where someone sharedabout their mental health, but it gives you an opportunity to then say, let me help you
access the resources that you need.
And together we can get you where you need to be.
(21:49):
I think there's that important distinction or something you just said that I think is adistinction folks might need to hear is, it's, let me help you get the resources you need,
not let me fix your problem.
Very different.
And a lot of people, I think, want to go towards, and this is human nature, right?
And I want to help fix it.
(22:11):
But that's probably not the best thing either is.
let me get you to the right resources that have the right tools, skills, and ability tohelp you best.
And knowing that doing that alone is helping them.
Fix it or improve it.
I don't want to say fix.
Fix is a really tough word.
on the road to better health, right?
(22:33):
absolutely.
it's, it's, that's a really, really, really, I've, I've had people approach me indifferent parts of my life being like, oh, you should do this.
You should, I'm like, I don't need you to fix this.
I just shut your mouth.
So here's a really interesting analogy that I've heard.
And that is if somebody was in the middle of a heart attack, right, you would administerCPR and then you would get them to the hospital because you are not a cardiac surgeon,
(23:01):
right?
And in that process, you wouldn't lecture them on diet or exercise or any of those thingsbecause that's not gonna fix the problem at that moment.
So...
we need to start thinking about how we approach mental health as well.
And that is sort of that stabilize and refer, right?
(23:24):
such a great analogy.
I think people can maybe tangibly put themselves in that thought process of like, if I'min the of heart attack, I'm going to hear anything you have to say about any of that.
And you wouldn't do that.
You would quickly stabilize and refer.
And that's what we need to do in a mental health crisis as well.
And if we start thinking about that, like we're all trained on CPR.
(23:47):
Everybody knows how to do CPR or the majority of us, especially in construction.
But statistically speaking, you are more likely to come in contact with someone on a jobsite that has a mental health crisis than a cardiac crisis.
we need to start applying those same theories, stabilize and refer.
(24:08):
Yeah, well, and then I think on the back end of that, think the fear of those goingthrough the crisis is they're going to be looked at differently.
They're not going to have their jobs.
going to be like, there's all these stories we tell ourselves that, you know, so beingcareful around, you know, how you treat them and things you say to them and the words you
(24:34):
use, I think is incredibly important now.
And I think
If I remember correctly, one of the resources that you share on your site is like a, atype of like first aid training that you can go through for, am I remembering this
correctly?
do.
We have a couple of different options.
One of the things that's available on our website is that you can take Living Works StartTraining for free.
(24:54):
And it's an introduction to suicide prevention, 60 to 90 minutes self-paced training thatreally kind of teaches you to recognize those warning signs and to have that conversation
and connect someone to those resources that they need.
uh So that one is for free on our website, but we also offer for someone who has movedthrough some of those basic trainings, and I don't recommend that you start here, but you
(25:21):
really do start with Living Works Start, because it's the introduction.
But we do offer in conjunction with a partnership we have with Independence Blue CrossBlue Shield of Illinois.
We are offering mental health first aid training four times this year for free.
That would be incredible if more folks did these types of trainings.
(25:41):
Just start with the free one.
It's 60 to 90 minutes.
It's not a lot of time.
You have, I think you have 30 days to complete it because they want you to go fullythrough the module so they don't want to leave it open too long.
But it really gets you the introduction to the conversation, teaches you how to asksomebody if they're thinking of suicide and then how to do that referral piece of it.
(26:06):
And then at that point you say, like, I'm ready to be a mental health champion, whateverthat looks like for you.
then that's where you assess what your next training should be, how in depth you want itto be.
Are you ready to create safety plans like one of legal works is continued plans look like,or are you ready to become a mental health first aider?
And then how do you access those resources because there's tons of them available.
(26:29):
That is such a great opportunity for folks and I encourage everyone to at least attemptthat free training.
I mean, I can guarantee you doom scroll on social media more than 60 minutes in a month.
So take that 60 minutes and divert it here.
And here's the deal.
If you never have to use it, great.
It's just like having first aid.
(26:50):
The hope is you never have to use it.
But in my year, 25 years of having first aid, I have used it six times.
my goodness, I was just about to say that I've never used it, knock on wood, and I'm happyabout that, right?
unfortunately have had to use it repeatedly on project sites and then I've actually hadtwo major car accidents happen in front of me.
And I'm grateful that I have the training enough to at least respond to a situation andjust be present for people.
(27:18):
that's because I would want that, right?
Like I would want somebody to have that training.
So I think of it the same way.
Like at minimum have that basic information because you never know when it might come inhandy.
And the hope is you never have to use it.
correct, right?
Good skill of animal, if nothing else.
you've mentioned 9-8-8 a few times and I just wanted to because I don't know thateverybody knows what that is.
(27:45):
So 988 is the crisis suicide prevention hotline number.
It used to be a 10-digit number.
I'll date myself a little bit and say it was a logic song that listed the whole 10-digitnumber.
uh Lots of conversations about it, right?
I don't remember, I didn't remember 9-8-8.
I remember the original one.
(28:06):
song, yeah.
Yep.
So in the last two years, 988 has been the truncated number.
It's similar to 911 in that it's that three digit dialing.
gets you access to the resource that you need.
What's different about 911 though is that 911 can geo point exactly where you are and theycan send help immediately.
(28:29):
988 doesn't do that for many reasons.
Much of it is that
We know that people want to remain anonymous in this conversation and they're worriedabout what will happen.
And so the way that 9-8-8 works is that you reach out to them, you can call, you can text,or you can chat, and then you will be connected to the closest cell tower to where you
(28:49):
are.
And then that call will then be routed to a crisis center that is closest to you in manycases.
Sometimes they're overburdened and they are not able to take that contact.
So it'll roll to a regional number.
And then sometimes if the regional number is overburdened, it will roll to a nationalnumber.
But there are options to do that.
(29:10):
And the goal of 988 is to get a commitment to safety.
It is not to come and get anyone.
It is not to lock anyone up.
It is not to...
take away your rights in any way, it is to get a commitment to safety so that they knowthat the person on the line is going to be here tomorrow.
And in 98 % of the cases, they are able to get that commitment to safety on that call.
(29:35):
In the other 2 % of the cases, they will activate crisis in some way.
So maybe that is a mobile crisis center.
They'll work on a plan to get you to a crisis intervention location.
or in worst case scenarios, they will, with permission, dispatch 911.
okay, okay.
I appreciate that they give people agency.
(29:56):
mean, and that's part of this process.
It's not about coming to take away or control.
There's agency in the whole step of the way.
And I think actually my understanding is that agency is a very important piece of therecovery portion of this.
So are there, talking about like how...
(30:17):
people engage is one thing, but then how do companies engage with your organization?
Like what does that look like?
I think in many of the same ways, we ask people to take our stand-up pledge to say, standup to suicide prevention.
And we have almost 1,000 stakeholders right now.
It's 100 % free.
And I want to be really clear about two things.
(30:37):
One is all of our resources are always going to be 100 % free.
Now, we may eventually get to a point where we'd say, here are all your free resources.
And if you want to go further, here are some vetted paid resources.
But it'll be very clear that there's always a free option as well.
And the other thing that it's important to note is that we are labor agnostic.
(31:00):
So we are available to anyone in the industry, whether you're large, medium, small, union,marriage shop, it doesn't matter to us.
Suicide doesn't discriminate and neither do we.
So wherever you fall in this process or wherever you fall in that construction ecosystem,
We want you to have the tools to put together a mental health and wellness program.
(31:23):
And so you access them just like that.
You start with a standup pledge.
You move to that needs analysis.
And then from the needs analysis, you figure out where your gaps are.
And then maybe it's toolbox talks.
Maybe it is some videos that we have on our website.
Maybe it is engaging your employees in something as simple as sharing the fact that wehave a free mental health screening tool.
(31:47):
anyone can use and it's 100 % anonymous and it allows you to get a baseline on what you'refeeling.
Some of that agency, a little bit of control over before I call my EAP, do I really needto?
Is what I'm feeling normal?
Am I in crisis?
I don't even know because I've never experienced this before.
So it gives you a little bit of that control and it allows someone to kind of walkthemselves through that path.
(32:13):
What's great about the resources is that
If you are in leadership and you're trying to figure out where to start, you've got astarting point.
If you are in middle management and you want to start having a conversation, you've got astarting point.
And if you're an employee looking for some way to get some agency over what you're doing,you've got a starting point.
(32:34):
And there's places for anyone to go to be able to access something that will hopefullyfill some of that gap and create a little bit of hope.
that A, you're not alone and B, that there's something right at your fingertips that youdon't have to obsessively Google about because it's right there.
Well, in the point of you're not alone, think that the fact that we are number two, that'snot a positive, by the way, but the fact that we're not, I mean, there's a lot of reasons
(33:03):
you want to you want to rank top three in a lot of things, but not this one.
But just the fact that that statistic is out there, I think should tell people that youaren't alone.
There are so many people in this industry that
are struggling probably with something very similar to what you are, that you're notalone.
(33:24):
so that's just a staggering statistic to tell you in a very non-emotional way that you'renot alone.
Unfortunately, I would say, but it's true.
um Are there any goals right now that CISP has to expand its reach, its research, theimpact you're making on the industry?
(33:45):
Yeah, absolutely.
So we've got some exciting things happening right now.
We just launched a podcast on Monday.
Thank you.
Thank you.
So that just happened.
And it's really about having conversations that, like the one that we're having today,that are more personable, more about sort of the state of what's happening.
(34:06):
So our May cast is going to be on, we have one on resilience and then we have one focusedon
what Canada is doing because we have a Canadian board member and we know that things arehappening in Canada as well as in the US and we're hoping to help them create a program
just like we looked to Australia and we look to the UK when we're putting together what wedo and kind of creating synergy around that, right?
(34:35):
So those are our first two and we have plans to obviously do two a month for as long as wecan.
Yeah.
The other thing that we started is a webinar series called Constructing Change.
And our first webinar was Women in Construction.
We had some really phenomenal guests on that.
So you can find that on YouTube.
(34:56):
Yeah.
I'll send you a link to it.
It was awesome.
um And then we're going to have one on loss survivorship in September because there issuch an interesting conversation around who gets to say they're a loss survivor, who feels
like they get to say that they're a loss survivor.
We're going to do one on recovery and what that looks like substance use in October.
(35:19):
And then in November, we're going to wrap up the year with grief in the holidays.
That has, yeah, those are some really, I would say important topics.
Some of those I've heard before, some of them, the lost survivor, I haven't actually heardthat term much before.
So I look forward to the webinar coming out so I can understand more what that means.
(35:41):
I think people are sometimes hesitant to claim a label, a title, a space.
But then there's sometimes empowerment in doing so.
It's a hard title to have to say you are, right?
So I lost my sister to suicide 17 years ago.
And in our family, it took a really long time to say that she died by suicide becausenobody wants that stigma, right?
(36:05):
Nobody wants to say that that happened to you.
And so what does that look like?
And in a world where we spend so much time with our coworkers and we rely on them soheavily,
when you lose someone close to you that's a coworker, what do you call that?
And how do you associate with that?
And what is the guilt or not guilt that goes with that?
(36:27):
So we really wanted to explore that and open up that conversation so that people feel likethey have a safe space to connect into and land in all of that, which was part of why we
thought that might be a great topic.
a language to talking about it, right?
Like maybe you don't quite know, like I've said a few times during this episode, like I'mnot sure I said that quite right.
(36:50):
I'm confident enough at this day and age to be able to say that I'm not sure I said itright and still say the things, right?
I think I've just reached that.
But a lot of people are really uncomfortable to even try to get the words out.
They don't want to offend somebody.
They don't want to, like they're uncomfortable.
So.
I think listening to some of these webinars just may help you have language to talk aboutthings too that could be really useful to continuing.
(37:15):
the thing that we're really excited about is something called our pathway model.
And it really is a continuation of building out those resources.
But again, you go back to starting at the stand up pledge, you move to that needsanalysis, and then you look at the buckets that are in sort of the space to build out your
own mental health and wellness program.
(37:36):
Is it awareness that you need?
Is it the
the support or structure that you need or is it the incident management piece that youneed?
And what does, where do you go?
Because no matter when you come to that conversation, you could Google and certainly findlots and lots and lots of options for you.
Some might relate to construction, some may not, some might be a hundred pages long andsome might be two paragraphs, but how do you know what's been vetted?
(38:05):
How do you know what makes sense?
How do you know what relates?
And if you are coming from it in a intervention or that uh structure piece of it or apostvention or incident management piece of it, you may not have the time to vet those
resources appropriately because you're in the middle of trying to stabilize yourworkforce, right?
(38:27):
So one place that has resources that we've created and then resources that we're pullingin from the industry.
We know that we are stronger if we lock arms with the people that are already doing this.
So why not share the resources that we all have, put them in one place, have a onerepository that people can go to to be able to access what they need when they need it
(38:50):
versus scrambling to find the information.
And so that's really, we have a think tank of 10 industry participants that are reallyworking on pulling all of this information together.
so that we'll have a hard launch hopefully by September and potentially fully working bythe end of the year.
(39:11):
that's super exciting to have that single force of resources.
You don't have to go and like Google reviews, Yelp reviews, like searching for what's beeneffective, like having a trusted resource to know like these are the top effective things
I could try or leverage if I'm struggling with implementation, education, whatever it isthat you need to add to your program.
(39:34):
And um the fact that at the moment most of...
all of it's free, think makes it approachable for any size of a company, whether you are alarge company that does have the funds to spend on it or a smaller company that maybe
doesn't have the money to put toward the specific type of program.
um But you could download these toolbox talks for free and do that as one of thoseefforts, right?
(39:57):
And it's approachable and it's easy um and reliable.
other side of it is the statistics are relevant.
They have been vetted.
They are, you you can confidently use the materials and know that it is, it's appropriate.
Well, I really appreciate you taking the time to talk with us today and really kind ofeducate our listenership.
(40:22):
I think is the right word.
Yeah, I know, listenership.
I sometimes share video clips.
So our folks in the cafe.
Because this is a really important topic.
And as we go again into safety week next week, and suicide prevention, in my opinion, is apart of safety for our industry.
We have mental health awareness month and then September is suicide prevention month.
(40:46):
Just allowing the moment to focus in really hard on these topics and sharing theseconversations and these resources with folks I think is really, important.
I'm the one that geeks out about statistics and data.
I tried not to do that this episode, so hopefully I did a good job.
um But yeah, any final thoughts or things you want to share with folks?
(41:10):
Two things, one is that anyone can do something in this conversation, right?
You don't have to have letters behind your name.
You can always be a helper.
And the other one is, is reach out if you need help.
We have resources available.
Follow us on LinkedIn.
We post five days a week.
Some of it's statistics, some of it's some other things, but there's always a resourceavailable to you.
(41:32):
Great, I really appreciate it and we'll be sharing resources as well for you guys.
Thanks!
Thank you for tuning in to today's episode of The Construction Cafe.
We hope you found our conversation as inspiring as your next big project.
(41:53):
Remember, you can dive deeper into the resources and topics we discuss by connecting withus on LinkedIn and Instagram.
Just search for The Construction Cafe.
Don't miss out on future episodes.
Be sure to follow us on Spotify, Podbean, and Apple Podcasts to keep the conversationgoing.
If you're passionate about the construction industry and have a story to share, we'd loveto hear from you.
(42:14):
Visit our website at the constructioncafe.com and drop us a note.
Let's keep building better together.
Popular Podcasts
Are You A Charlotte?
In 1997, actress Kristin Davis’ life was forever changed when she took on the role of Charlotte York in Sex and the City. As we watched Carrie, Samantha, Miranda and Charlotte navigate relationships in NYC, the show helped push once unacceptable conversation topics out of the shadows and altered the narrative around women and sex. We all saw ourselves in them as they searched for fulfillment in life, sex and friendships. Now, Kristin Davis wants to connect with you, the fans, and share untold stories and all the behind the scenes. Together, with Kristin and special guests, what will begin with Sex and the City will evolve into talks about themes that are still so relevant today. "Are you a Charlotte?" is much more than just rewatching this beloved show, it brings the past and the present together as we talk with heart, humor and of course some optimism.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com