September 5, 2024 • 18 mins
Welcome to the Content Combo Podcast, presented by Casual Films. Tune in every Friday to hear from our team of experts about how to deliver effective video content that drives results. Every time, without fail.
In Episode 7, host Thomas Elliott is joined by the amazing editors Ansh Grey, Joey Kan, and filmmaker Richie Fowler. This week, we take a personal approach as our hosts share their unique journeys into the world of visual storytelling.
From the charm of old vintage lenses to the inspiration of nature documentaries, Richie Fowler opens up about what drew him into filmmaking. Ansh Grey reminisces about his childhood experiences with a DV camera and the thrill of shooting on film without knowing the end result. Joey Kan shares his transition from drawing cartoons to creating visual stories, fueled by childhood imagination and family encouragement.
The episode delves into the importance of hands-on experience, the impact of early influences, and the evolution of storytelling techniques. Our hosts discuss their paths, from initial forays into video creation to formal education in film school, and emphasize the value of just diving in and creating, regardless of the tools at hand.
Join us for an insightful and inspiring conversation about the art of visual storytelling and the different ways people find their way into this captivating field.
Thanks for joining us for this edition of the Content Combo Podcast. Please remember to tune in every Friday for more episodes and follow us on LinkedIn or via the Casual Films website.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Welcome to the Content Combo Podcast, presented by Casual Films.
Tune in every Friday so you can hear from our team of experts about how to deliver
effective video content that drives results.
Every time, without fail. And now it's over to our hosts.
Welcome to the Content Combo Podcast, Episode 7. I'm your host,
(00:24):
Thomas Elliott. And making up the combo this week are our amazing, fabulous editors.
Ansh Gray. Yo. Joey Kahn and filmmaker Richie Fowler.
In this week's episode, we're shifting gears again.
We're going to do a little bit of a personal approach this week and we're going
to give our audience a little bit of insight into what made individual members
(00:44):
of the Content Combo get into telling visual stories.
So I'm going to open that question up to the group. Anybody feel like jumping
in and telling us, I guess, in a way, how that journey begins?
Because it is often an interesting journey. people go in different places and
they i don't feel anybody ever kind of comes on a straight path
to kind of filmmaking or visual storytelling so who wants
(01:05):
to jump in and kind of give us their story or or how
it worked for them my route into filmmaking or
even visual storytelling is not very clear-cut or
direct and you know i never went to film school
i wasn't super into photography or cameras
when i was younger i think it wasn't until i was maybe 20
odd like 21 22 where i started to
(01:27):
taking some photographs and I think the thing that
really actually changed it for me was using old
vintage lenses I remember getting some old like helios
lenses and old like soviet style lenses and I remember just seeing all the character
you can get in these old lenses I think that then and sort of the images you
can produce from it that really inspired me and that kind of really excited
(01:51):
me I think the look or the feel or the type of stories that I wanted to tell needed that
kind of 50mm where needed like a old vintage lens.
The other thing that really inspired me was documentaries and also like specifically
like nature documentaries and just documentaries in general.
Cause I think they, number one, they tell very human stories and number two, in a way they're.
(02:17):
I feel like documentaries kind of give you a bit of leeway into how you shoot something.
I remember sitting through like, I think it was a four hour documentary,
which this director took 10 years to make.
And holy cow, it's four hours, like how are you supposed to sit through it?
Talking about telling the story, how it's supposed to be told.
After you've been through it, you're like, wow, that was amazing.
(02:38):
Because it really charted 10 years of growth of these different characters.
And you see them sort of go through their journey and where they end up.
And just the four-hour duration of it, it was worth it.
Visual storytelling, it's like the impact that images can have on you,
even though you don't consciously even think about it sometimes.
(02:59):
How about you guys? Yeah, I think for me as well. I mean, it's similar to Richie.
So growing up, we always had a DV camera because my dad was always into it.
My whole family was on the production side.
So we always had a camera. So we would have those old cassettes which can record either 60 minutes,
but if you're lucky you can get 90 minutes they
also it's like amazingly good and like
(03:20):
the tape is great and so i would just record on that non-stop and
then like after a few days my dad would be like why are these tapes full
i'll get yelled upon that but either way i mean that's where
i started off eventually like yeah like uh my dad got a
camera and then i started shooting with that was digital but
then what truly grabbed me especially in like visual storytelling
was the idea of not saying what you have shot
(03:41):
especially on 25 millimeter film camera where you
can shoot it but you don't know any settings considering you're
doing it for the first time you won't know how to charge the
lighting space even if you have a light meter sometimes they
just want to visually just see like if the lighting is going to work well with
the aperture with the shutter with the iso so that was like a very interesting
way how i actually like found myself like using like a frame that i shot without
(04:06):
actually seeing the end result of it only once after it's developed i'm like
okay that's interesting and actually looks pretty good How about you, Jojo?
So actually, I started off as a kid who was really into drawing stuff and cartoons.
So I would watch G.I. Joe, Transformers, and Ninja Turtles.
(04:26):
And I'd be like, oh, I want to draw cool characters like that and make cool stories.
You know how as a kid you'd be like, that's nothing to do in the afternoon.
And you just kind of get your sketch pad out and just kind of recreate your
own stories. is like, I'm going to make the Transformers fight the Ninja Turtles,
you know? So you kind of like make your own stories out of that.
And I just, I guess it kind of.
(04:47):
Just kept growing the interest. And then I got better in drawing and I got better
in like having a more sensible story instead of like, oh, the ninjas die. That'd be it.
You know, spoiler alert. And I'd like try to like, you know,
show off my artworks to like, you know, my family and they kind of encouraged me.
And that was pretty good. I think having encouraging people around you who are
(05:11):
also into stories is really important.
I mean, I think my interest originally stemmed from my father used to read to
us when we were children.
And I don't know whether that happened for you guys.
I don't know how common that is as an experience these days,
but I used to really look forward to that time when you would go to bed and
my father would sit on the edge of the bed and he would read us.
(05:32):
He read us the entirety of the C.S. Lewis Onicles of Nadia.
He read us Lord of the Rings. Wow.
And when you're a kid, you're kind of sitting there and you're just listening
to your father's voice. and in a way you're filling in the pictures in your
head. Yeah, your imagination.
Or what that looks like, and you're using your imagination.
And I think to me that's where visual storytelling for me came from,
(05:54):
was sitting there listening to my father read stories and kind of imagining
what Tom Bombadil looked like or what Sam O'Reilly looked like.
Because the films didn't exist, they were not there.
Actually, I had a similar experience where my parents didn't read as much,
but I used to get cassette tapes of bedtime stories And usually Enid Blyton
(06:15):
or some Agatha Christie.
And my imagination would just be like...
The magical faraway tree house was it like the turn turn
the page adventure type type something like that yeah
whereas again you will know it is time to turn the page when you
hear r2d2 go yeah something
we used to have those as well i used to love those and
(06:35):
i think that for me was one of those things where stories in
our household became a thing that kind of i guess permeated
i guess funny like you know we had tv you watched movies but
i don't think i ever really thought about them until my father took
my brother and i to go and see 2001 a space odyssey in 70 mil for like a film
society screening and i remember just being a little tacker in my pajamas and
(06:57):
going and kind of you know it was like the full projection where it had the
introduction you had the intermission
you had the whole thing and i just never seen a story like that,
ever and it sort of walked out of it and just went i won't do that.
Must have been so out there for you
know tasmanian boy you know it was also
(07:18):
really like i greatly appreciate my parents for having the courage to take a
young child to go and see 2001 it's my thought to see i'm not quite sure i would
take my daughter to go and oh yeah maybe i will or maybe i won't because i don't
know if i necessarily wanted to go into filmmaking but um you know it did like
those visual images stuck with me long after that film finished and you You know,
like even just that sequence of the guy running in space and the kind of turning space station.
(07:44):
And I sort of remember kind of going away from it. And my mother actually still
has a copy of this poem that I wrote, I think in grade one or two or something after seeing that film.
And it was all about, I wanted to make films. Before that, I don't think I ever talked about that.
And then I guess the interesting thing is once you kind of discover visual stories
is how that evolution happens.
I mean, you can kind of talk about the drawing and you kind of get better at it.
(08:06):
You were kind of talking about you kind of shift mediums. Is that something
that you feel is kind of common in your journey of becoming a visual storyteller?
Is you kind of in a way start to
shift across other things and develop techniques and find ways into that?
Because, you know, my first approach wasn't I didn't go and watch 2001 and go,
I'm going to go get a camera somewhere and make a film.
(08:28):
Film i did something else before i think it's what
experience right you have the green experience as well so when
you are if you want to shoot like 2001 space odyssey was
amazing but also like it was yeah expensive as well
you know so and you have big sets over there so
they build there's a lot of teamwork going on in there so before
you go down to the bc make such a big visual compelling
(08:49):
story i think it's good to make some small stuff
beforehand as well just to see like is that actually for
you or not you know so yeah yeah definitely
i mean like for so going back to the ninjas um
that i was drawing was i was so i'm so curious to know what
happens to the ninjas so i basically took that idea and i started drawing all
my classmates as ninjas and i started like making up little stories about them
(09:13):
so like the ninja jennifer would start dating like ninja ninja jason or whatever
and that they'd have to like fight off the ninja bullies and you know i would
I would just like make these little comics and just like show my classmates.
Did bad things happen to ninja teachers that were like teachers?
Oh, definitely. Definitely. I made all sorts of stories up. So it was kind of
like, yeah, you're making your own world out that it's like super entertaining.
(09:35):
And then you get like extra entertained because your classmates get in on it as well.
Because they're like, wow, you drew me as a ninja. Can you like give me like bigger muscles?
Yeah, I can give you like five laser guns too. Sure. And like in the next episode.
In the next episode. Yeah. Thumbs up.
That's a very rewarding stuff what about
sort of transitioning to i guess telling visual stories for
(09:57):
the first time i mean i know that several people around
this type of winter film school so they have that sort of experience
i mean there's also the experience before film school because obviously to get
into film school you you make some kind of visual something
i mean i still remember making i did because we didn't have a
video camera in my house i bought some super a cameras i
think when i was in like grade 12 that i bought from like a garage
(10:18):
sale and i sort of messed around with them but i wouldn't say i
made anything that kind of had a structured story and i think the actual first
film that i made was when i had to apply to film school and i had to make
like a story and i shot it all on super 8
on sort of black and white tri-x film and and kind
of made that evolution what was it like for you guys i mean you're sort
of saying you had a video camera yeah i mean like
so i mean i had a video camera and like i mean i never thought about being
(10:41):
a filmmaker that time so for me it was a different yeah
i mean i don't know what i wanted to do that time so you know so yeah but
like before like i thought about going to film school i was
just like shooting random like youtube videos and but
like then i started like doing some writing as well so i started shooting a
little bit of narrative stuff but it's just with some friends you know like
it's like relaxing ourselves we're playing guitar we're chilling and we just
(11:04):
like be like yeah hey you know what's the cool cool idea we watched this movie
that was an amazing scene let's just act it out so we just started shooting
just for fun and i liked anything because the The software I was using was Final Cut that time.
So I was just editing on that really quick. And I'm like, great.
And I was like, amazing. Okay, now this is what the video looks like.
And slowly, slowly, that made me want to understand cinematography more.
(11:26):
And then I started shooting my own stuff within high school.
And then I joined a film school. And I met the amazing Joey.
Snort. The amazing Joey. My own images.
You're not just saying that because you said 60 right yeah they're having a genuine bromance.
(11:48):
I mean i i when i got to film school i
didn't own like a video camera or anything like that the
way the university that i went to worked was you
did like a foundation year of art general art
and then you could choose like what you wanted to do like you
could go into like illustration or graphic design or whatever
and then you could apply to film school without actually having
(12:09):
like made a film and if you didn't like it after like
half a year you could leave and try another major which i
thought was good because i knew some other film schools they were
like oh you need to have like a film that you shot in order to
apply and i was like how are you going to make a film if
you don't own a video camera yeah this is ridiculous um yeah
well it's interesting because i
(12:30):
i sort of i made you slightly fibbed before because i did i did a filmmaking
course before prior to film school yeah and the filmmaking course i did was
like a year of like it was not creative it was literally like this is how camera
works this is how light works yeah this is how edit systems work and you just
did technical exercises there was nothing creative about it.
But it was great because you learned. At least you could touch stuff.
(12:52):
I could touch stuff and go, okay.
I think you started shooting on a Super VHS camera and by the end you kind of shot on Super 16 film.
And that was useful to me. But yeah, I moved to Melbourne to go to film school
and I was like, yeah, okay.
Going to make a film. Yeah, it's kind of like job applications.
You have to have work experience at the job in order to have work experience. You need a job.
(13:15):
So film school back then, I was like, yeah, Yeah, but I'm trying to go to film
school because I want to learn film.
But you can't go to film school unless you made a film.
Yeah. I approached it totally the other way around because my family never was
super into photography or art or video or anything.
(13:36):
So I think I did sort of like a one-month course, I remember, in high school.
At that time, they only had handy cams. And I remember getting really frustrated
because I was like, this is not how I wanted to look like, which I think kind
of ties back to when I first picked up my first vintage lens or even a prime
lens in a way. And that kind of just blew my mind.
(13:57):
But it's funny, though, because after high school, I went to university and
my introduction, I knew I wanted to do something very hands on,
but I was studying history.
And so at the time, I did a few film courses, but they're more like film history or film theory.
So the funny thing is i learned all about mise en scene
i learned about auteur theory i learned about all these different this
(14:17):
terminology and analyzing film before i even
sort of got into filmmaking throughout my whole career
i've always wondered should i go to film school do i need to go to film school
and i think i've been relatively fortunate enough to to learn things on the
job um which i think is part of the charm of this industry is that it's very
collaborative if you're willing to observe and it is it is but we we've all
(14:39):
learned that you know we knew from the first moment when we met you that you've
never been to film school?
We don't mean that and actually we don't mean that in
a mean way but i i actually don't
think you need to go to film school you know not to get all verner herzog on
anybody here but you know i i agree with the thing that kubrick said that actually
(15:01):
the best way to learn how to make movies is to go out and make movies you learn
way more about picking up a camera and going okay you know you know like one
of the first things i find And often when we talk to clients,
his clients go, I'm not really a visual person.
I can't think about how to put a story together or I'm not creative.
And actually, when you think about it, most people can visualize sequences because
(15:21):
the way that we tell stories is inherently visually.
You know, if somebody comes into work on a Monday morning and tells you about
their weekend, if you break down what they're telling you, it's a sequence of shots.
You know, I went to the beach, it was sunny, my ice cream melted on me,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Somebody got eaten by a shark you know you kind of
like it's a secret to shots while they're having an ice cream you
(15:45):
know it's interesting
though because i feel like my my ability to
do that actually developed i think only in the past few
years where you know i always thought i could think visually but
in a way it was more like a painting or like kind of
it's it wasn't very like clear in a way
so i think doing more filmmaking doing
(16:05):
more storytelling actually helps to make it more succinct as
you said well it does and also you you start to learn shorthand and you start
to learn ways of creating things out of very little because you have experience
cool any final thoughts on finding your way into visual storytelling or any
advice on how other people could find their way into visual storytelling.
(16:27):
I think if you have something in mind, write it down.
If you can't draw, write it down. If you can draw, draw it out.
I'd say if you have a story to tell and you want to show it in a visual way, then give it a try.
Don't hold yourself back and don't limit yourself to fears of it not being perfect or whatever.
(16:51):
I actually think doing and making things and learning through the process is
more important than getting too caught up with the final result in a way.
Agreed. I think it's always better to just dive in and do rather than sit there
and go, I wish I had. Totally.
Defo. Defo. I'm going to go with the advice.
I once went to a Q&A screening with Joel Schumacher for Phone Booth where he
(17:15):
told his story of kind of coming from a guy who grew up, filmmaking wasn't the
thing that he ever thought would happen.
He went through a whole bunch of troubles in his life from drug
addiction to other bits and pieces and he's like you know anybody who ever
tells you you're gonna make it in life anybody says you're not gonna get where you
want to get f them the only person the only
person who can hold you back from telling stories visually or doing things that
(17:35):
you want to do is you so in the end of the day without this
being again sort of self-help therapeutic uh
guideline for people if you want to tell visual stories go
tell visual stories pick up a camera go and do it you can do it on
your phone there's no there's no reason why you cannot tell visual stories
in 2024 that's actually something else i want to add is
like i see a lot of young filmmakers and even you know
(17:56):
i sort of went through that as well it's like sometimes you're like oh i need
to have all the gear to do this but you're totally right it
doesn't matter actually it's it's how you go and you
just need to go do it it doesn't matter the next
great classic of cinema is not going to come from you
know a francis ford coppola or somebody else it's going to come from a
kid with an iphone in iowa who's
(18:17):
going to have a great story he's going to go and tell it iphone from
iowa that's going to be the next big thing it is
i can tell you thanks for joining us for this edition of the content combo podcast
as always i'm your host thomas elliott and thanks again to the combo arch gray
joey khan and the wonderful richie fowler thank you for your contributions to
our show please remember to tune in every friday for more of the content combo
(18:38):
and don't forget to follow us on linkedin or via the casual films website.
Music.
Welcome to the Content Combo Podcast, presented by Casual Films.
Tune in every Friday so you can hear from our team of experts about how to deliver
effective video content that drives results.
Every time, without fail. And now it's over to our hosts.
Welcome to the Content Combo Podcast, Episode 7. I'm your host,
(00:24):
Thomas Elliott. And making up the combo this week are our amazing, fabulous editors.
Ansh Gray. Yo. Joey Kahn and filmmaker Richie Fowler.
In this week's episode, we're shifting gears again.
We're going to do a little bit of a personal approach this week and we're going
to give our audience a little bit of insight into what made individual members
(00:44):
of the Content Combo get into telling visual stories.
So I'm going to open that question up to the group. Anybody feel like jumping
in and telling us, I guess, in a way, how that journey begins?
Because it is often an interesting journey. people go in different places and
they i don't feel anybody ever kind of comes on a straight path
to kind of filmmaking or visual storytelling so who wants
(01:05):
to jump in and kind of give us their story or or how
it worked for them my route into filmmaking or
even visual storytelling is not very clear-cut or
direct and you know i never went to film school
i wasn't super into photography or cameras
when i was younger i think it wasn't until i was maybe 20
odd like 21 22 where i started to
(01:27):
taking some photographs and I think the thing that
really actually changed it for me was using old
vintage lenses I remember getting some old like helios
lenses and old like soviet style lenses and I remember just seeing all the character
you can get in these old lenses I think that then and sort of the images you
can produce from it that really inspired me and that kind of really excited
(01:51):
me I think the look or the feel or the type of stories that I wanted to tell needed that
kind of 50mm where needed like a old vintage lens.
The other thing that really inspired me was documentaries and also like specifically
like nature documentaries and just documentaries in general.
Cause I think they, number one, they tell very human stories and number two, in a way they're.
(02:17):
I feel like documentaries kind of give you a bit of leeway into how you shoot something.
I remember sitting through like, I think it was a four hour documentary,
which this director took 10 years to make.
And holy cow, it's four hours, like how are you supposed to sit through it?
Talking about telling the story, how it's supposed to be told.
After you've been through it, you're like, wow, that was amazing.
(02:38):
Because it really charted 10 years of growth of these different characters.
And you see them sort of go through their journey and where they end up.
And just the four-hour duration of it, it was worth it.
Visual storytelling, it's like the impact that images can have on you,
even though you don't consciously even think about it sometimes.
(02:59):
How about you guys? Yeah, I think for me as well. I mean, it's similar to Richie.
So growing up, we always had a DV camera because my dad was always into it.
My whole family was on the production side.
So we always had a camera. So we would have those old cassettes which can record either 60 minutes,
but if you're lucky you can get 90 minutes they
also it's like amazingly good and like
(03:20):
the tape is great and so i would just record on that non-stop and
then like after a few days my dad would be like why are these tapes full
i'll get yelled upon that but either way i mean that's where
i started off eventually like yeah like uh my dad got a
camera and then i started shooting with that was digital but
then what truly grabbed me especially in like visual storytelling
was the idea of not saying what you have shot
(03:41):
especially on 25 millimeter film camera where you
can shoot it but you don't know any settings considering you're
doing it for the first time you won't know how to charge the
lighting space even if you have a light meter sometimes they
just want to visually just see like if the lighting is going to work well with
the aperture with the shutter with the iso so that was like a very interesting
way how i actually like found myself like using like a frame that i shot without
(04:06):
actually seeing the end result of it only once after it's developed i'm like
okay that's interesting and actually looks pretty good How about you, Jojo?
So actually, I started off as a kid who was really into drawing stuff and cartoons.
So I would watch G.I. Joe, Transformers, and Ninja Turtles.
(04:26):
And I'd be like, oh, I want to draw cool characters like that and make cool stories.
You know how as a kid you'd be like, that's nothing to do in the afternoon.
And you just kind of get your sketch pad out and just kind of recreate your
own stories. is like, I'm going to make the Transformers fight the Ninja Turtles,
you know? So you kind of like make your own stories out of that.
And I just, I guess it kind of.
(04:47):
Just kept growing the interest. And then I got better in drawing and I got better
in like having a more sensible story instead of like, oh, the ninjas die. That'd be it.
You know, spoiler alert. And I'd like try to like, you know,
show off my artworks to like, you know, my family and they kind of encouraged me.
And that was pretty good. I think having encouraging people around you who are
(05:11):
also into stories is really important.
I mean, I think my interest originally stemmed from my father used to read to
us when we were children.
And I don't know whether that happened for you guys.
I don't know how common that is as an experience these days,
but I used to really look forward to that time when you would go to bed and
my father would sit on the edge of the bed and he would read us.
(05:32):
He read us the entirety of the C.S. Lewis Onicles of Nadia.
He read us Lord of the Rings. Wow.
And when you're a kid, you're kind of sitting there and you're just listening
to your father's voice. and in a way you're filling in the pictures in your
head. Yeah, your imagination.
Or what that looks like, and you're using your imagination.
And I think to me that's where visual storytelling for me came from,
(05:54):
was sitting there listening to my father read stories and kind of imagining
what Tom Bombadil looked like or what Sam O'Reilly looked like.
Because the films didn't exist, they were not there.
Actually, I had a similar experience where my parents didn't read as much,
but I used to get cassette tapes of bedtime stories And usually Enid Blyton
(06:15):
or some Agatha Christie.
And my imagination would just be like...
The magical faraway tree house was it like the turn turn
the page adventure type type something like that yeah
whereas again you will know it is time to turn the page when you
hear r2d2 go yeah something
we used to have those as well i used to love those and
(06:35):
i think that for me was one of those things where stories in
our household became a thing that kind of i guess permeated
i guess funny like you know we had tv you watched movies but
i don't think i ever really thought about them until my father took
my brother and i to go and see 2001 a space odyssey in 70 mil for like a film
society screening and i remember just being a little tacker in my pajamas and
(06:57):
going and kind of you know it was like the full projection where it had the
introduction you had the intermission
you had the whole thing and i just never seen a story like that,
ever and it sort of walked out of it and just went i won't do that.
Must have been so out there for you
know tasmanian boy you know it was also
(07:18):
really like i greatly appreciate my parents for having the courage to take a
young child to go and see 2001 it's my thought to see i'm not quite sure i would
take my daughter to go and oh yeah maybe i will or maybe i won't because i don't
know if i necessarily wanted to go into filmmaking but um you know it did like
those visual images stuck with me long after that film finished and you You know,
like even just that sequence of the guy running in space and the kind of turning space station.
(07:44):
And I sort of remember kind of going away from it. And my mother actually still
has a copy of this poem that I wrote, I think in grade one or two or something after seeing that film.
And it was all about, I wanted to make films. Before that, I don't think I ever talked about that.
And then I guess the interesting thing is once you kind of discover visual stories
is how that evolution happens.
I mean, you can kind of talk about the drawing and you kind of get better at it.
(08:06):
You were kind of talking about you kind of shift mediums. Is that something
that you feel is kind of common in your journey of becoming a visual storyteller?
Is you kind of in a way start to
shift across other things and develop techniques and find ways into that?
Because, you know, my first approach wasn't I didn't go and watch 2001 and go,
I'm going to go get a camera somewhere and make a film.
(08:28):
Film i did something else before i think it's what
experience right you have the green experience as well so when
you are if you want to shoot like 2001 space odyssey was
amazing but also like it was yeah expensive as well
you know so and you have big sets over there so
they build there's a lot of teamwork going on in there so before
you go down to the bc make such a big visual compelling
(08:49):
story i think it's good to make some small stuff
beforehand as well just to see like is that actually for
you or not you know so yeah yeah definitely
i mean like for so going back to the ninjas um
that i was drawing was i was so i'm so curious to know what
happens to the ninjas so i basically took that idea and i started drawing all
my classmates as ninjas and i started like making up little stories about them
(09:13):
so like the ninja jennifer would start dating like ninja ninja jason or whatever
and that they'd have to like fight off the ninja bullies and you know i would
I would just like make these little comics and just like show my classmates.
Did bad things happen to ninja teachers that were like teachers?
Oh, definitely. Definitely. I made all sorts of stories up. So it was kind of
like, yeah, you're making your own world out that it's like super entertaining.
(09:35):
And then you get like extra entertained because your classmates get in on it as well.
Because they're like, wow, you drew me as a ninja. Can you like give me like bigger muscles?
Yeah, I can give you like five laser guns too. Sure. And like in the next episode.
In the next episode. Yeah. Thumbs up.
That's a very rewarding stuff what about
sort of transitioning to i guess telling visual stories for
(09:57):
the first time i mean i know that several people around
this type of winter film school so they have that sort of experience
i mean there's also the experience before film school because obviously to get
into film school you you make some kind of visual something
i mean i still remember making i did because we didn't have a
video camera in my house i bought some super a cameras i
think when i was in like grade 12 that i bought from like a garage
(10:18):
sale and i sort of messed around with them but i wouldn't say i
made anything that kind of had a structured story and i think the actual first
film that i made was when i had to apply to film school and i had to make
like a story and i shot it all on super 8
on sort of black and white tri-x film and and kind
of made that evolution what was it like for you guys i mean you're sort
of saying you had a video camera yeah i mean like
so i mean i had a video camera and like i mean i never thought about being
(10:41):
a filmmaker that time so for me it was a different yeah
i mean i don't know what i wanted to do that time so you know so yeah but
like before like i thought about going to film school i was
just like shooting random like youtube videos and but
like then i started like doing some writing as well so i started shooting a
little bit of narrative stuff but it's just with some friends you know like
it's like relaxing ourselves we're playing guitar we're chilling and we just
(11:04):
like be like yeah hey you know what's the cool cool idea we watched this movie
that was an amazing scene let's just act it out so we just started shooting
just for fun and i liked anything because the The software I was using was Final Cut that time.
So I was just editing on that really quick. And I'm like, great.
And I was like, amazing. Okay, now this is what the video looks like.
And slowly, slowly, that made me want to understand cinematography more.
(11:26):
And then I started shooting my own stuff within high school.
And then I joined a film school. And I met the amazing Joey.
Snort. The amazing Joey. My own images.
You're not just saying that because you said 60 right yeah they're having a genuine bromance.
(11:48):
I mean i i when i got to film school i
didn't own like a video camera or anything like that the
way the university that i went to worked was you
did like a foundation year of art general art
and then you could choose like what you wanted to do like you
could go into like illustration or graphic design or whatever
and then you could apply to film school without actually having
(12:09):
like made a film and if you didn't like it after like
half a year you could leave and try another major which i
thought was good because i knew some other film schools they were
like oh you need to have like a film that you shot in order to
apply and i was like how are you going to make a film if
you don't own a video camera yeah this is ridiculous um yeah
well it's interesting because i
(12:30):
i sort of i made you slightly fibbed before because i did i did a filmmaking
course before prior to film school yeah and the filmmaking course i did was
like a year of like it was not creative it was literally like this is how camera
works this is how light works yeah this is how edit systems work and you just
did technical exercises there was nothing creative about it.
But it was great because you learned. At least you could touch stuff.
(12:52):
I could touch stuff and go, okay.
I think you started shooting on a Super VHS camera and by the end you kind of shot on Super 16 film.
And that was useful to me. But yeah, I moved to Melbourne to go to film school
and I was like, yeah, okay.
Going to make a film. Yeah, it's kind of like job applications.
You have to have work experience at the job in order to have work experience. You need a job.
(13:15):
So film school back then, I was like, yeah, Yeah, but I'm trying to go to film
school because I want to learn film.
But you can't go to film school unless you made a film.
Yeah. I approached it totally the other way around because my family never was
super into photography or art or video or anything.
(13:36):
So I think I did sort of like a one-month course, I remember, in high school.
At that time, they only had handy cams. And I remember getting really frustrated
because I was like, this is not how I wanted to look like, which I think kind
of ties back to when I first picked up my first vintage lens or even a prime
lens in a way. And that kind of just blew my mind.
(13:57):
But it's funny, though, because after high school, I went to university and
my introduction, I knew I wanted to do something very hands on,
but I was studying history.
And so at the time, I did a few film courses, but they're more like film history or film theory.
So the funny thing is i learned all about mise en scene
i learned about auteur theory i learned about all these different this
(14:17):
terminology and analyzing film before i even
sort of got into filmmaking throughout my whole career
i've always wondered should i go to film school do i need to go to film school
and i think i've been relatively fortunate enough to to learn things on the
job um which i think is part of the charm of this industry is that it's very
collaborative if you're willing to observe and it is it is but we we've all
(14:39):
learned that you know we knew from the first moment when we met you that you've
never been to film school?
We don't mean that and actually we don't mean that in
a mean way but i i actually don't
think you need to go to film school you know not to get all verner herzog on
anybody here but you know i i agree with the thing that kubrick said that actually
(15:01):
the best way to learn how to make movies is to go out and make movies you learn
way more about picking up a camera and going okay you know you know like one
of the first things i find And often when we talk to clients,
his clients go, I'm not really a visual person.
I can't think about how to put a story together or I'm not creative.
And actually, when you think about it, most people can visualize sequences because
(15:21):
the way that we tell stories is inherently visually.
You know, if somebody comes into work on a Monday morning and tells you about
their weekend, if you break down what they're telling you, it's a sequence of shots.
You know, I went to the beach, it was sunny, my ice cream melted on me,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Somebody got eaten by a shark you know you kind of
like it's a secret to shots while they're having an ice cream you
(15:45):
know it's interesting
though because i feel like my my ability to
do that actually developed i think only in the past few
years where you know i always thought i could think visually but
in a way it was more like a painting or like kind of
it's it wasn't very like clear in a way
so i think doing more filmmaking doing
(16:05):
more storytelling actually helps to make it more succinct as
you said well it does and also you you start to learn shorthand and you start
to learn ways of creating things out of very little because you have experience
cool any final thoughts on finding your way into visual storytelling or any
advice on how other people could find their way into visual storytelling.
(16:27):
I think if you have something in mind, write it down.
If you can't draw, write it down. If you can draw, draw it out.
I'd say if you have a story to tell and you want to show it in a visual way, then give it a try.
Don't hold yourself back and don't limit yourself to fears of it not being perfect or whatever.
(16:51):
I actually think doing and making things and learning through the process is
more important than getting too caught up with the final result in a way.
Agreed. I think it's always better to just dive in and do rather than sit there
and go, I wish I had. Totally.
Defo. Defo. I'm going to go with the advice.
I once went to a Q&A screening with Joel Schumacher for Phone Booth where he
(17:15):
told his story of kind of coming from a guy who grew up, filmmaking wasn't the
thing that he ever thought would happen.
He went through a whole bunch of troubles in his life from drug
addiction to other bits and pieces and he's like you know anybody who ever
tells you you're gonna make it in life anybody says you're not gonna get where you
want to get f them the only person the only
person who can hold you back from telling stories visually or doing things that
(17:35):
you want to do is you so in the end of the day without this
being again sort of self-help therapeutic uh
guideline for people if you want to tell visual stories go
tell visual stories pick up a camera go and do it you can do it on
your phone there's no there's no reason why you cannot tell visual stories
in 2024 that's actually something else i want to add is
like i see a lot of young filmmakers and even you know
(17:56):
i sort of went through that as well it's like sometimes you're like oh i need
to have all the gear to do this but you're totally right it
doesn't matter actually it's it's how you go and you
just need to go do it it doesn't matter the next
great classic of cinema is not going to come from you
know a francis ford coppola or somebody else it's going to come from a
kid with an iphone in iowa who's
(18:17):
going to have a great story he's going to go and tell it iphone from
iowa that's going to be the next big thing it is
i can tell you thanks for joining us for this edition of the content combo podcast
as always i'm your host thomas elliott and thanks again to the combo arch gray
joey khan and the wonderful richie fowler thank you for your contributions to
our show please remember to tune in every friday for more of the content combo
(18:38):
and don't forget to follow us on linkedin or via the casual films website.
Music.
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