May 21, 2024 • 25 mins
Welcome back to another episode of The Copy Table!
In this episode, your hosts Erin, Nicole, and Grace discuss just one of the many things they have in common: running a copywriting business as parents.
Listen up, and you'll learn:
- How they manage their business with very different families - young children, teens, and stepchildren.
- How to set boundaries but still stay flexible so you can manage #allthethings and run your business without sacrificing what's important.
Most importantly? You'll learn that you can find that elusive balance and make your business feel good to you even if you feel tugged in twenty different directions.
The takeaway? There really is no one right way to build a copywriting business you love, but it's on you to use your powers of persuasion responsibly!
Whether you need actionable tips to market your copywriting business, a push to raise your rates, or the courage to plant your flag in a new niche, we've got you covered. Over the years, we've met some extraordinary people who've helped us, and we're ready to help you avoid the pitfalls that so many copywriters find.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the copy table, the podcast for copywriters who want to get new ideas and inspiration for building and scaling a business you love.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
In this podcast, hosts Grace Fortune, Nicole Morton, and Erin Pennings bring new topics and guests to the table.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Every single episode, we're spilling the beans on how you can use your interests and expertise to define what success means to you and take steps to achieve it. Welcome back to the copy table. On this episode, we're going to talk all about running a copywriting business as a parent. We're going to go over how. How the different stages of parenthood have affected our businesses so far and how to set up boundaries, physical and emotional, so that you can run your business successfully while you have children. Nicole, do you want to kick us off?
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Well, let's start off by acknowledging that we are all in different stages and situations with our family structure. So it's fun to kind of compare and contrast for me with olders, to listen to Erin with littles, or, you know, to kind of get the blended family perspective with grace. So, you know, hopefully we can have, like, an interesting cross section of, you know, some of that might be going through similar experiences. From my perspective, I'm the one with the oldest kid, so mine are 21 and now 13. So starting my business four years ago, I wasn't chasing toddlers around and had a semi built in babysitter during COVID So, which isn't to say it's not challenging, it was a different set of challenges.
(01:43):
And I, with my capacity, I don't know that I would have had bandwidth to be able to have worked as hard on my business as I had. My.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Were littler.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
So, you know, I gave all the kudos and caffeine to our, you know, our colleagues that are trying to their businesses with little ones around. What are your thoughts about that?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
It's always interesting to me to, especially if I've talked to people who have been doing calls for many years where kids have come in or they have been in more traditional offices and their kids have come in and the conversations that they had to deal with around that, with what was professional, and it's not professional to have your kids here versus me. I started my business when my daughter was basically one, and it was because my husband was gone all the time. And so my kids were automatically part of my business, my calls, because that was the option at that point. And then it was not a problem. I would say for most people the first couple years and then COVID hit and everyone was in the same boat and it was kind of like.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Look.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
At you newbies, like, not laughing at people, but just being like, huh? Look, isn't this different now? But anyone who has been on calls with me at all during the last five years has more likely than not met my child or children.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
It was a delight, by the way.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
They have learned that they can get away with anything while I'm on a call. And can I have this high sugar snack that I would never get to have any other time? Oh, my God. There's almost always yes. Or it's like, no. And I don't think to turn off the camera. So it gets real funny sometimes. And sometimes I'm able to keep going without a distraction, and sometimes it's like, just. Just give me a second.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Yeah, that's so true. Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Are definitely a different ballgame. Mine are six. I don't know if I said that already, but. So it's just. It's about boundaries for them, but also for. About the boundaries of the work, and we can get more into that. I know we all want to talk about that because I have some stories I can tell about what they've learned from having me on Zoom calls, but. Great. Before I continue monologuing, tell me more about how that, like, what your perspective is here, because you've got a very different perspective.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Yes. So I don't have biological children. I have a stepdaughter. And, you know, she's. You know, she's my entire heart. Like, I love her to death, but she. She now is almost. She's 18. She just turned 18 in September, if you can believe that. And I started my business close to the same time as you, I think. Nicole. I started it in March of 2020, which we all know what happened around that time. And I started my business basically after having, like, a mini, like, existential crisis, realizing that I need to, like, do something on my own. But it was very interesting trying to figure out how to run my business and make sure that I'm still present for my stepdaughter. She's autistic, which comes with its own sets of challenges and, you know, pros, cons, whatever you want to call it.
(05:00):
But basically, like, I feel. I feel like I'm pretty lucky in the sense that I've never had the challenge of running a business as a parent with very small children, because that is a complete different set of challenges and rules and boundaries that you need to set up. But that's. That's my own personal perspective. Yeah. Just one stepchild. She's 18 now. Started when she was 14 and a half. I think what I would really love to get into, I think I'll start with you, Erin, because your children are the youngest. I would really love to know, like, kind of like, what's a day in the life of running a coffee business, like, from your perspective, with two.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Small children, they're two very different things. And actually, I'm going to even go further and say there's three different days in my life. A typical day during the school year is that they go off to school. Sometimes I'll go do something for me, like a walk or sit down, have coffee with my mom, since she lives with us, and then go to work. And my work days are pretty strictly limited to nine to three. And that's nice for me because I thrive with a little bit of structure, but it also gives me bookends. And it's a little bit longer now that they're taking the bus home. But generally speaking, I try to make it so that I am done working on whatever I'm working on when they get home so I can be there with them.
(06:22):
But also, it's extremely frustrating when they come in and they. I'm like, just five more minutes. Give me five more minutes. And inevitably, they come in six more times, which makes it turn into an hour. And then we're all frustrated. And so it's much better if I can just be done at three or at four or whenever that is, that they're getting off the bus. And if I need to get some more stuff done, it's then after bedtime. So that means all calls happen during that time, or they have to happen at 06:00 a.m. If I'm talking to someone india or China or somewhere where it's different because it's either before they get up or after they're gone during the summer. It's a very different ballgame. And there's two separate things.
(07:00):
My husband's a firefighter, so when he's here, and he is like chief dad, except for when they walk by him on the couch and start to ask me for stuff. And it's like, you walk by your dad, he's right there. Go talk to him. But he's really good at making sure that they do stuff if they're off of school for any reason, or it's summer, but when it's summer and they're not, they have swimming lessons, they have camps, they have some of these other things. That I have to work around as a copywriter. So I would love to say that I've got it all figured out. The truth is that every year is a different set of circumstances and a different set of hot messes for me. And it's just about.
(07:38):
I don't want to say it's about trying to survive, but it's about figuring out what is the top priority and making that be the exact priority at that time.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
It sounds to me like really something extremely important at that stage of parenthood is being flexible, too.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
It's challenging for me. Not known for my flexibility once. Anyway, there's other stories, but it's a little bit about being flexible, but also about communicating expectations, which I think is important across the board, not just we talk about a lot with clients, and that happens with clients, too. Like, hey, my kids are home. You'll probably meet them at some point. Or I have a hard stop because I have to get my kids to their thing. They're home for the summer, and people understand, especially post COVID. But it's also about communicating those boundaries to kids. Hey, I need two solid hours where I can just focus and get stuck. Done. Or I'm on the call. You can make yourselves some easy Mac, or you can make yourselves.
(08:38):
You can grab snacks out of here, which is the snacks is a whole other story, but it's about communicating those boundaries to them, which is interesting. It's really interesting what they learn from that, because it's a kind of behavior that you're modeling to them to set the boundary and be like, I need this time. And it's really interesting. My daughter, she was recording herself singing. She has her own music video that she did, and that's. And it's absolutely delightful. But she was like, I need five minutes of peace and quiet to do this video. And I'm like, oh. I probably said that to her. Well, I've been recording loom explanations.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
And.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I was like, where have I heard that before? Where do you think she got that? And then, so I left the room to give her peace and quiet, which is what I want from her, because I want her to be like, oh, you know, modeling good behavior.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Oh, my God, I love that.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
But then my husband was downstairs in the workshop, and he was singing, which is a whole experience for anyone wants to picture this. It's absolutely, like, really like, there's a lot of that. But she started, like, laying into him, like I said, five minutes. You ruined my video. And I'm like, oh, God, did I model that to her, too, or is this just a six year old?
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Oh, my gosh. Being six, you know, I'll admit, like, I never really thought of it from that perspective because I've never tried to run a business with small children's, obviously. So I never really thought of it from a perspective as, like, you're literally teaching them through your own actions how to model that, like, how to set boundaries and, you know, enforce them in a gentle way. Right. Like, it's very, I guess interesting is the right word for me. Like, I just never really considered that.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Yeah, it's important because, you know, they're, it, how old they are, they're always listening, they're always watching, and they're like little sponges. So, yeah, that's why.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
What about you, Nicole?
Speaker 1 (10:44):
And they just the darndest things, no matter how hard you try. So just there. Who, man.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Yeah. Oh, my gosh. And what about you, Nicole? Your children are, you know, one is a semi adult and your other, your girl, is a teenager. So what's that like?
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Well, and then, you know, throw in the added wrinkle of being a single mom, you know, unfortunately, my son has a flexible work environment where he is gracious enough to pinch hit if I throw enough cash at him to, you know, be my either built in man nanny and, or Uber. So I'm very lucky in that respect. But it's the same thing. You know, summers are challenging again, she goes to, were in negotiations for this year, but for the past several summers, she's gone to girl scout day camp. So, you know, traveling, it's 30 minutes away. So spending 2 hours of commuting time in the car, you know, it eats into your daily allotment of work hours. And so you, again, like Erin said, you have to set expectations with clients.
(11:46):
You have to be really diligent about using your time wisely and where you can, using software to, like, speed things up where you can, and that's an investment. So it's an exchange. Are you going to trade time for dollars? Are you going to invest in efficiencies to get your time back? And it's just really, it's all about what your own personal, financial and goals are and your, how, what you consider success. How do you want to measure success in your business?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Well, and I think to kind of piggyback off of that, there's a lot of business coaches out there who will tell you how you have to run business that you have to do it a certain way. And this goes back to a previous episode that we talked about on offer, building versus order taking. And there is a lot to be said as a parent to be in order taking mode right now. There are so many things that you have to manage. There are so many different pieces that you have to own that it's really nice sometimes to have projects brought to you and to not be stressing about all the things, or there are many business coaches who will be like, oh, well, you have to grow. You have to do these things. Yeah, it's like, honestly, right now, I have to survive.
(12:59):
I have to put a roof over our heads, and there are other people in this house who help with the bills, certainly, but I have to put a roof over our heads. I have to, through our shared income, I have to feed people three meals a day when they're home, plus all the snacks, and I have to get them stuff, and I still have to be there with them to do these things. So what falls is building the business that everyone says you should build. And I'm fine with it. I am absolutely fine with not hitting growth mode without, with not having an agency with twelve employees underneath me. I am 100% okay with that because the age and stage of my life is like, we want the kids to grow up to be decent humans.
(13:47):
I want to make the most of this time with them. So I'm going to do the things that let me have that and choose the projects and clients thereof.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
I think that's a really important point. As parents, we especially, you know, you and Nicole, you guys don't have infinite amount of time, infinite amount of energy, mental or physical, to be constantly hustling. Right? So I think that, you know, being okay with being in maintenance mode, not necessarily scaling your growth mode constantly, is so important because I can imagine, I mean, maybe you guys can answer this, but do you find it, do you find almost like, that you feel a sense of fomo as a result of not being able to constantly hustle and, you know, do all the things?
Speaker 1 (14:36):
I would be lying if I said I didn't. And so the sense of, I don't know that shame's the right word, but guilt in that, oh, I should be on social media. I should be, you know, I should be doing this. I should be doing that. So, yes, I would be lying if I said that I didn't have comparisonitis. But again, what's the trade off? The trade off is, you know, my kids acting up because they're not being attended to or missing events. My kids events. Like, I've been fortunate enough to have a flexible enough schedule that I can go their little concerts at school or, you know, we can have family dinners and things like that.
(15:15):
So, yeah, again, it's, you know, choosing what looks for means that, you know, I'm not grinding 24/7 for a new business or, you know, burning myself out on appearances and, you know, constantly glued to my phone on social media. And that's okay for me. That's the trade off I'm willing to make at this stage of my business.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
What about you, Erin?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
I would say that there are things that I feel fomo for, especially things when other people are like, hey, there's this course I want to that you should do. And it's after school hours or there's weekends that I can't commit to. And I've tried, and it's just. It's not worth it for either the sacrifice or the mental bandwidth of trying to do all the things at once. It's just not worth it to me to do. So I miss out on stuff, and I'm okay with it. And I think it's more about coming to terms with what your limitations are and accepting them so. Or finding a way to pass it off to someone else. There's no way I could be on social as much as my business is without my va.
(16:20):
And when I hired her, I didn't know what I was going to have her do. I just knew that I wanted to snap her up because I knew her from a previous situation. So it's like, do you like this kind of stuff? She's like, yeah. And I'm like, sold. This is. This is what you're on. And we talk regularly about how we want to change things. And it's like, if I can make it happen, I will. If I can't, I'm gonna be okay with it, because, again, it's the limitations of where I'm spending that time, because, sadly, I can't be in two places at once. And sadly, you know, maybe not sadly. That sounds like a lot of energy.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
That's exhausting.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Yeah. I think that's very fair to say. I think that it's important as parents to make sure that you are recognizing, like, what is. What is okay for you to sacrifice, to keep your family, you know, to put your family first. And also, I think that it's important to talk about. There are times when you. I don't want to say that you don't have to necessarily put your family, like, first, but it is okay sometimes to put a little bit more of a priority on certain aspects of your business, too. I don't. I just want to make the point clear that it's. That it's okay to focus on your business a little bit, too. You don't have to necessarily put yourself, your business completely by the wayside in order to successfully navigate having, you know, having a family.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
I would agree with that. And I am not. My kids know that I am not always available to them.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
It's not like they're like, oh, she's at work. She's not available because that is not the case. They are constantly coming through here. It is a superhighway. But they also know that when I'm done, we're going to do other stuff.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
And I tried to. You're never gonna be everything to everyone. And so I. It comes back to your point, acceptance. What is the priority right now?
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Is it putting food on the table? Is it my kids? And how your business can be one of your priorities. It just figuring out what.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Right. Because I think that if you take an extreme approach to running, being a mom or a parent above all other things, I think that especially as women in business, we run the risk of almost becoming like a martyr in a way. Right. Like you're, like your. Your children. Your children are not going to be dependent on you and basically at your heels forever. And at that point, you're basically, once that happens, I've heard a lot of people talk about how once their children are no longer dependent on them, like us as parents, almost feel like a sense of, like, loss of purpose. Because if you build your life around your children completely, you wonder, like, what the hell is next? Like, what do I do now?
(19:11):
And then you've lost out on all of that opportunity time that you could have focused a little bit on your business. Not obviously, not 100%. Building your business up while you're still running your family. That's not the right word to use, but I'm just going to go with it. You're managing your family and trying to build your business at the same time. There's. There's a balancing act, and it is achievable. But I also have to acknowledge, too, that there are, you know, certain families that have more needs than others. If you're. If your children have special needs or disabilities or they just need more of your attention, maybe they're. Maybe they're going through a hard time.
(19:45):
Maybe they're being bullied at school, maybe, like, my daughter, maybe they have autism or some other thing that requires more of your attention, then it's okay to step back a little bit. It's practicing the art of discernment and figuring out what you need to do right now. And sometimes maybe that does look like you're putting out fires. You're moving from one fire to the next, but that's not a permanent state of existence. You're doing things now and preparing for the future kind of thing. And I know, like, for me as a step parent, like, our arrangement is that we have my stepdaughter every weekend without fail. So I'm lucky enough where I don't have to worry about that aspect of things during the week most of the time.
(20:27):
I mean, every now and then, of course, there's going to be something, but for the most part, bless. Bless my stepdaughter's mom. Like, she's amazing. Like, she's. She takes the lead on, like, 99% of things with. With rain during the weeks. So I'm fortunate enough where I have space to work on my business and so does my husband. So it ends up being, like, mutually beneficial because then we can help her more, and she looks after me, and it's more about, like, delegating and who's responsible for what specific points. So, yeah, I mean, I have nothing but, like, respect and. And gratitude for. For parents who do manage to juggle the whole balancing act because it's definitely not easy. You know, if you are. If you're a parent listening to this, then, you know, kudos. You're kind of like a superhero, right?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
A lot of.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Kind of. Yes. And it's okay where. I think that's the other takeaway. It's okay to be wherever you are. There's a lot of stuff out there as parents about, we should be this. We have to be this. Mom should do, dad should do. And just, like, you need to, like, let all that advice you. Well, you can ignore it first, but if you want to, you can filter through it and figure out what you want to take to make your own. The same comes to running a business, whether it's your copywriting business, whether it's something else, if you're someone else who's listening, not a copywriter, or if you're a parent or not becoming a parent yet or considering becoming a parent, you get to make up the rules, whatever you can out of this.
(22:02):
And if you're like, I hate everything that they said, we're okay with it. Things aren't hurt, so. Yeah, just an interesting time in any ways.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Okay, so we're going to wrap up in a minute, but I want to do a quick, rapid fire. What is. What is one, like, one. One hardcore boundary that you would recommend putting in place as a parent? Aaron, you go first.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Hardcore. Let me. Let me clarify that with. With your clients or with your children or with yourself?
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Both. All of the above. Any or all of the above.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Mine is figuring out time. How are you going to spend your time? What are the boundaries you're going to put on that? Is it that you work for an hour and then you get up and spend 20 minutes with your kid? Is it. There's no wrong way. Like, for me, it's like, I work from nine to three. Those are my hours. That's when I schedule calls. Anything outside of that? Nope. Nope. Or it has to be case by case.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Love it. Yeah, I love it. What about you, Nicole?
Speaker 1 (23:02):
I think finding a dedicated space so that I could mentally, like, I don't have a door, but I can mentally close my work door and leave all that. And the kids also know when I'm here, I'm working. So it's a visual reminder that mom is, you know, approached with caution. You have a stop sign. You can't see off to the side that, you know, I could put up the stop sign when I'm in a meeting, you know, because inevitably they'll, like, wander over with headphones on and realize I'm on a call. But having a dedicated space, that is my workspace. And so the kids know this is. This is, you know, in the middle of the playroom. Yes, it is. But it's still mom's corner.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Right. Okay. And I guess, for me, my non negotiable is that my weekends are my time with my stepdaughter. I do my utmost to not work weekends. I only get those, you know, two and a half days with her. So I want to be as present as I can. I have worked weekends, obviously, but I try my best not to. So I guess it's a flexible, non negotiable, I guess. I don't know how else to put that, but, yeah, weekends are sacred. Yeah. Does anybody else have anything to add?
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Just be kind and gentle to yourself.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yes, please do. Just give yourself a break.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Yeah, I would agree with that. And I would say no matter how hard you think you're screwing it up, it's. You're not. You're probably not screwing it up as bad as you might think.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
And you're screwing it up in different ways than you realize. So give yourself permission to be wherever you are right now.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Yeah. And for me, like, that sense of I'm screwing something up, all that means that something needs to be tweaked a little bit. It's not the end of the world. All right. You want to take us out, Nicole? Yep.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
So thanks for joining us for another episode of the coffee table. So we're grace fortune, Erin Pennings, myself, Nicole Morton, and look forward to talking with you next time. Bye.
Welcome to the copy table, the podcast for copywriters who want to get new ideas and inspiration for building and scaling a business you love.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
In this podcast, hosts Grace Fortune, Nicole Morton, and Erin Pennings bring new topics and guests to the table.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Every single episode, we're spilling the beans on how you can use your interests and expertise to define what success means to you and take steps to achieve it. Welcome back to the copy table. On this episode, we're going to talk all about running a copywriting business as a parent. We're going to go over how. How the different stages of parenthood have affected our businesses so far and how to set up boundaries, physical and emotional, so that you can run your business successfully while you have children. Nicole, do you want to kick us off?
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Well, let's start off by acknowledging that we are all in different stages and situations with our family structure. So it's fun to kind of compare and contrast for me with olders, to listen to Erin with littles, or, you know, to kind of get the blended family perspective with grace. So, you know, hopefully we can have, like, an interesting cross section of, you know, some of that might be going through similar experiences. From my perspective, I'm the one with the oldest kid, so mine are 21 and now 13. So starting my business four years ago, I wasn't chasing toddlers around and had a semi built in babysitter during COVID So, which isn't to say it's not challenging, it was a different set of challenges.
(01:43):
And I, with my capacity, I don't know that I would have had bandwidth to be able to have worked as hard on my business as I had. My.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Were littler.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
So, you know, I gave all the kudos and caffeine to our, you know, our colleagues that are trying to their businesses with little ones around. What are your thoughts about that?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
It's always interesting to me to, especially if I've talked to people who have been doing calls for many years where kids have come in or they have been in more traditional offices and their kids have come in and the conversations that they had to deal with around that, with what was professional, and it's not professional to have your kids here versus me. I started my business when my daughter was basically one, and it was because my husband was gone all the time. And so my kids were automatically part of my business, my calls, because that was the option at that point. And then it was not a problem. I would say for most people the first couple years and then COVID hit and everyone was in the same boat and it was kind of like.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Look.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
At you newbies, like, not laughing at people, but just being like, huh? Look, isn't this different now? But anyone who has been on calls with me at all during the last five years has more likely than not met my child or children.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
It was a delight, by the way.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
They have learned that they can get away with anything while I'm on a call. And can I have this high sugar snack that I would never get to have any other time? Oh, my God. There's almost always yes. Or it's like, no. And I don't think to turn off the camera. So it gets real funny sometimes. And sometimes I'm able to keep going without a distraction, and sometimes it's like, just. Just give me a second.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Yeah, that's so true. Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Are definitely a different ballgame. Mine are six. I don't know if I said that already, but. So it's just. It's about boundaries for them, but also for. About the boundaries of the work, and we can get more into that. I know we all want to talk about that because I have some stories I can tell about what they've learned from having me on Zoom calls, but. Great. Before I continue monologuing, tell me more about how that, like, what your perspective is here, because you've got a very different perspective.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Yes. So I don't have biological children. I have a stepdaughter. And, you know, she's. You know, she's my entire heart. Like, I love her to death, but she. She now is almost. She's 18. She just turned 18 in September, if you can believe that. And I started my business close to the same time as you, I think. Nicole. I started it in March of 2020, which we all know what happened around that time. And I started my business basically after having, like, a mini, like, existential crisis, realizing that I need to, like, do something on my own. But it was very interesting trying to figure out how to run my business and make sure that I'm still present for my stepdaughter. She's autistic, which comes with its own sets of challenges and, you know, pros, cons, whatever you want to call it.
(05:00):
But basically, like, I feel. I feel like I'm pretty lucky in the sense that I've never had the challenge of running a business as a parent with very small children, because that is a complete different set of challenges and rules and boundaries that you need to set up. But that's. That's my own personal perspective. Yeah. Just one stepchild. She's 18 now. Started when she was 14 and a half. I think what I would really love to get into, I think I'll start with you, Erin, because your children are the youngest. I would really love to know, like, kind of like, what's a day in the life of running a coffee business, like, from your perspective, with two.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Small children, they're two very different things. And actually, I'm going to even go further and say there's three different days in my life. A typical day during the school year is that they go off to school. Sometimes I'll go do something for me, like a walk or sit down, have coffee with my mom, since she lives with us, and then go to work. And my work days are pretty strictly limited to nine to three. And that's nice for me because I thrive with a little bit of structure, but it also gives me bookends. And it's a little bit longer now that they're taking the bus home. But generally speaking, I try to make it so that I am done working on whatever I'm working on when they get home so I can be there with them.
(06:22):
But also, it's extremely frustrating when they come in and they. I'm like, just five more minutes. Give me five more minutes. And inevitably, they come in six more times, which makes it turn into an hour. And then we're all frustrated. And so it's much better if I can just be done at three or at four or whenever that is, that they're getting off the bus. And if I need to get some more stuff done, it's then after bedtime. So that means all calls happen during that time, or they have to happen at 06:00 a.m. If I'm talking to someone india or China or somewhere where it's different because it's either before they get up or after they're gone during the summer. It's a very different ballgame. And there's two separate things.
(07:00):
My husband's a firefighter, so when he's here, and he is like chief dad, except for when they walk by him on the couch and start to ask me for stuff. And it's like, you walk by your dad, he's right there. Go talk to him. But he's really good at making sure that they do stuff if they're off of school for any reason, or it's summer, but when it's summer and they're not, they have swimming lessons, they have camps, they have some of these other things. That I have to work around as a copywriter. So I would love to say that I've got it all figured out. The truth is that every year is a different set of circumstances and a different set of hot messes for me. And it's just about.
(07:38):
I don't want to say it's about trying to survive, but it's about figuring out what is the top priority and making that be the exact priority at that time.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
It sounds to me like really something extremely important at that stage of parenthood is being flexible, too.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
It's challenging for me. Not known for my flexibility once. Anyway, there's other stories, but it's a little bit about being flexible, but also about communicating expectations, which I think is important across the board, not just we talk about a lot with clients, and that happens with clients, too. Like, hey, my kids are home. You'll probably meet them at some point. Or I have a hard stop because I have to get my kids to their thing. They're home for the summer, and people understand, especially post COVID. But it's also about communicating those boundaries to kids. Hey, I need two solid hours where I can just focus and get stuck. Done. Or I'm on the call. You can make yourselves some easy Mac, or you can make yourselves.
(08:38):
You can grab snacks out of here, which is the snacks is a whole other story, but it's about communicating those boundaries to them, which is interesting. It's really interesting what they learn from that, because it's a kind of behavior that you're modeling to them to set the boundary and be like, I need this time. And it's really interesting. My daughter, she was recording herself singing. She has her own music video that she did, and that's. And it's absolutely delightful. But she was like, I need five minutes of peace and quiet to do this video. And I'm like, oh. I probably said that to her. Well, I've been recording loom explanations.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
And.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I was like, where have I heard that before? Where do you think she got that? And then, so I left the room to give her peace and quiet, which is what I want from her, because I want her to be like, oh, you know, modeling good behavior.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Oh, my God, I love that.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
But then my husband was downstairs in the workshop, and he was singing, which is a whole experience for anyone wants to picture this. It's absolutely, like, really like, there's a lot of that. But she started, like, laying into him, like I said, five minutes. You ruined my video. And I'm like, oh, God, did I model that to her, too, or is this just a six year old?
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Oh, my gosh. Being six, you know, I'll admit, like, I never really thought of it from that perspective because I've never tried to run a business with small children's, obviously. So I never really thought of it from a perspective as, like, you're literally teaching them through your own actions how to model that, like, how to set boundaries and, you know, enforce them in a gentle way. Right. Like, it's very, I guess interesting is the right word for me. Like, I just never really considered that.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Yeah, it's important because, you know, they're, it, how old they are, they're always listening, they're always watching, and they're like little sponges. So, yeah, that's why.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
What about you, Nicole?
Speaker 1 (10:44):
And they just the darndest things, no matter how hard you try. So just there. Who, man.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Yeah. Oh, my gosh. And what about you, Nicole? Your children are, you know, one is a semi adult and your other, your girl, is a teenager. So what's that like?
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Well, and then, you know, throw in the added wrinkle of being a single mom, you know, unfortunately, my son has a flexible work environment where he is gracious enough to pinch hit if I throw enough cash at him to, you know, be my either built in man nanny and, or Uber. So I'm very lucky in that respect. But it's the same thing. You know, summers are challenging again, she goes to, were in negotiations for this year, but for the past several summers, she's gone to girl scout day camp. So, you know, traveling, it's 30 minutes away. So spending 2 hours of commuting time in the car, you know, it eats into your daily allotment of work hours. And so you, again, like Erin said, you have to set expectations with clients.
(11:46):
You have to be really diligent about using your time wisely and where you can, using software to, like, speed things up where you can, and that's an investment. So it's an exchange. Are you going to trade time for dollars? Are you going to invest in efficiencies to get your time back? And it's just really, it's all about what your own personal, financial and goals are and your, how, what you consider success. How do you want to measure success in your business?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Well, and I think to kind of piggyback off of that, there's a lot of business coaches out there who will tell you how you have to run business that you have to do it a certain way. And this goes back to a previous episode that we talked about on offer, building versus order taking. And there is a lot to be said as a parent to be in order taking mode right now. There are so many things that you have to manage. There are so many different pieces that you have to own that it's really nice sometimes to have projects brought to you and to not be stressing about all the things, or there are many business coaches who will be like, oh, well, you have to grow. You have to do these things. Yeah, it's like, honestly, right now, I have to survive.
(12:59):
I have to put a roof over our heads, and there are other people in this house who help with the bills, certainly, but I have to put a roof over our heads. I have to, through our shared income, I have to feed people three meals a day when they're home, plus all the snacks, and I have to get them stuff, and I still have to be there with them to do these things. So what falls is building the business that everyone says you should build. And I'm fine with it. I am absolutely fine with not hitting growth mode without, with not having an agency with twelve employees underneath me. I am 100% okay with that because the age and stage of my life is like, we want the kids to grow up to be decent humans.
(13:47):
I want to make the most of this time with them. So I'm going to do the things that let me have that and choose the projects and clients thereof.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
I think that's a really important point. As parents, we especially, you know, you and Nicole, you guys don't have infinite amount of time, infinite amount of energy, mental or physical, to be constantly hustling. Right? So I think that, you know, being okay with being in maintenance mode, not necessarily scaling your growth mode constantly, is so important because I can imagine, I mean, maybe you guys can answer this, but do you find it, do you find almost like, that you feel a sense of fomo as a result of not being able to constantly hustle and, you know, do all the things?
Speaker 1 (14:36):
I would be lying if I said I didn't. And so the sense of, I don't know that shame's the right word, but guilt in that, oh, I should be on social media. I should be, you know, I should be doing this. I should be doing that. So, yes, I would be lying if I said that I didn't have comparisonitis. But again, what's the trade off? The trade off is, you know, my kids acting up because they're not being attended to or missing events. My kids events. Like, I've been fortunate enough to have a flexible enough schedule that I can go their little concerts at school or, you know, we can have family dinners and things like that.
(15:15):
So, yeah, again, it's, you know, choosing what looks for means that, you know, I'm not grinding 24/7 for a new business or, you know, burning myself out on appearances and, you know, constantly glued to my phone on social media. And that's okay for me. That's the trade off I'm willing to make at this stage of my business.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
What about you, Erin?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
I would say that there are things that I feel fomo for, especially things when other people are like, hey, there's this course I want to that you should do. And it's after school hours or there's weekends that I can't commit to. And I've tried, and it's just. It's not worth it for either the sacrifice or the mental bandwidth of trying to do all the things at once. It's just not worth it to me to do. So I miss out on stuff, and I'm okay with it. And I think it's more about coming to terms with what your limitations are and accepting them so. Or finding a way to pass it off to someone else. There's no way I could be on social as much as my business is without my va.
(16:20):
And when I hired her, I didn't know what I was going to have her do. I just knew that I wanted to snap her up because I knew her from a previous situation. So it's like, do you like this kind of stuff? She's like, yeah. And I'm like, sold. This is. This is what you're on. And we talk regularly about how we want to change things. And it's like, if I can make it happen, I will. If I can't, I'm gonna be okay with it, because, again, it's the limitations of where I'm spending that time, because, sadly, I can't be in two places at once. And sadly, you know, maybe not sadly. That sounds like a lot of energy.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
That's exhausting.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Yeah. I think that's very fair to say. I think that it's important as parents to make sure that you are recognizing, like, what is. What is okay for you to sacrifice, to keep your family, you know, to put your family first. And also, I think that it's important to talk about. There are times when you. I don't want to say that you don't have to necessarily put your family, like, first, but it is okay sometimes to put a little bit more of a priority on certain aspects of your business, too. I don't. I just want to make the point clear that it's. That it's okay to focus on your business a little bit, too. You don't have to necessarily put yourself, your business completely by the wayside in order to successfully navigate having, you know, having a family.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
I would agree with that. And I am not. My kids know that I am not always available to them.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
It's not like they're like, oh, she's at work. She's not available because that is not the case. They are constantly coming through here. It is a superhighway. But they also know that when I'm done, we're going to do other stuff.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
And I tried to. You're never gonna be everything to everyone. And so I. It comes back to your point, acceptance. What is the priority right now?
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Is it putting food on the table? Is it my kids? And how your business can be one of your priorities. It just figuring out what.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Right. Because I think that if you take an extreme approach to running, being a mom or a parent above all other things, I think that especially as women in business, we run the risk of almost becoming like a martyr in a way. Right. Like you're, like your. Your children. Your children are not going to be dependent on you and basically at your heels forever. And at that point, you're basically, once that happens, I've heard a lot of people talk about how once their children are no longer dependent on them, like us as parents, almost feel like a sense of, like, loss of purpose. Because if you build your life around your children completely, you wonder, like, what the hell is next? Like, what do I do now?
(19:11):
And then you've lost out on all of that opportunity time that you could have focused a little bit on your business. Not obviously, not 100%. Building your business up while you're still running your family. That's not the right word to use, but I'm just going to go with it. You're managing your family and trying to build your business at the same time. There's. There's a balancing act, and it is achievable. But I also have to acknowledge, too, that there are, you know, certain families that have more needs than others. If you're. If your children have special needs or disabilities or they just need more of your attention, maybe they're. Maybe they're going through a hard time.
(19:45):
Maybe they're being bullied at school, maybe, like, my daughter, maybe they have autism or some other thing that requires more of your attention, then it's okay to step back a little bit. It's practicing the art of discernment and figuring out what you need to do right now. And sometimes maybe that does look like you're putting out fires. You're moving from one fire to the next, but that's not a permanent state of existence. You're doing things now and preparing for the future kind of thing. And I know, like, for me as a step parent, like, our arrangement is that we have my stepdaughter every weekend without fail. So I'm lucky enough where I don't have to worry about that aspect of things during the week most of the time.
(20:27):
I mean, every now and then, of course, there's going to be something, but for the most part, bless. Bless my stepdaughter's mom. Like, she's amazing. Like, she's. She takes the lead on, like, 99% of things with. With rain during the weeks. So I'm fortunate enough where I have space to work on my business and so does my husband. So it ends up being, like, mutually beneficial because then we can help her more, and she looks after me, and it's more about, like, delegating and who's responsible for what specific points. So, yeah, I mean, I have nothing but, like, respect and. And gratitude for. For parents who do manage to juggle the whole balancing act because it's definitely not easy. You know, if you are. If you're a parent listening to this, then, you know, kudos. You're kind of like a superhero, right?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
A lot of.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Kind of. Yes. And it's okay where. I think that's the other takeaway. It's okay to be wherever you are. There's a lot of stuff out there as parents about, we should be this. We have to be this. Mom should do, dad should do. And just, like, you need to, like, let all that advice you. Well, you can ignore it first, but if you want to, you can filter through it and figure out what you want to take to make your own. The same comes to running a business, whether it's your copywriting business, whether it's something else, if you're someone else who's listening, not a copywriter, or if you're a parent or not becoming a parent yet or considering becoming a parent, you get to make up the rules, whatever you can out of this.
(22:02):
And if you're like, I hate everything that they said, we're okay with it. Things aren't hurt, so. Yeah, just an interesting time in any ways.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Okay, so we're going to wrap up in a minute, but I want to do a quick, rapid fire. What is. What is one, like, one. One hardcore boundary that you would recommend putting in place as a parent? Aaron, you go first.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Hardcore. Let me. Let me clarify that with. With your clients or with your children or with yourself?
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Both. All of the above. Any or all of the above.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Mine is figuring out time. How are you going to spend your time? What are the boundaries you're going to put on that? Is it that you work for an hour and then you get up and spend 20 minutes with your kid? Is it. There's no wrong way. Like, for me, it's like, I work from nine to three. Those are my hours. That's when I schedule calls. Anything outside of that? Nope. Nope. Or it has to be case by case.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Love it. Yeah, I love it. What about you, Nicole?
Speaker 1 (23:02):
I think finding a dedicated space so that I could mentally, like, I don't have a door, but I can mentally close my work door and leave all that. And the kids also know when I'm here, I'm working. So it's a visual reminder that mom is, you know, approached with caution. You have a stop sign. You can't see off to the side that, you know, I could put up the stop sign when I'm in a meeting, you know, because inevitably they'll, like, wander over with headphones on and realize I'm on a call. But having a dedicated space, that is my workspace. And so the kids know this is. This is, you know, in the middle of the playroom. Yes, it is. But it's still mom's corner.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Right. Okay. And I guess, for me, my non negotiable is that my weekends are my time with my stepdaughter. I do my utmost to not work weekends. I only get those, you know, two and a half days with her. So I want to be as present as I can. I have worked weekends, obviously, but I try my best not to. So I guess it's a flexible, non negotiable, I guess. I don't know how else to put that, but, yeah, weekends are sacred. Yeah. Does anybody else have anything to add?
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Just be kind and gentle to yourself.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yes, please do. Just give yourself a break.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Yeah, I would agree with that. And I would say no matter how hard you think you're screwing it up, it's. You're not. You're probably not screwing it up as bad as you might think.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
And you're screwing it up in different ways than you realize. So give yourself permission to be wherever you are right now.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Yeah. And for me, like, that sense of I'm screwing something up, all that means that something needs to be tweaked a little bit. It's not the end of the world. All right. You want to take us out, Nicole? Yep.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
So thanks for joining us for another episode of the coffee table. So we're grace fortune, Erin Pennings, myself, Nicole Morton, and look forward to talking with you next time. Bye.
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