November 19, 2024 • 36 mins
Welcome back to The Copy Table!
In this episode, hosts Erin Pennings, Nicole Morton, and Grace dive deeper into the I ♥ Processes series.
Next Up? How to create winning briefs with your clients!
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Listen in to Erin, Nicole, and Grace's latest conversation, and you'll learn:
- The Importance of Project Briefs. What briefs are, why they're essential, and how they set the stage for successful client collaborations by clarifying expectations, deliverables, and boundaries.
- How to Incorporate Briefs into Your Process. Practical advice on creating and using briefs effectively, including tips for integrating them into your workflow and ensuring clients align with the project scope before starting.
- Using Briefs to Manage Edits and Changes. How briefs can serve as a reference point for managing client feedback, minimizing misunderstandings, and streamlining the revision process with clear agreements on project terms.
Most importantly? You'll learn that you don’t need to get lost in specific performance metrics to have a successful project - you need to align on overarching goals! The takeaway? There really is no one right way to build a copywriting business you love, but it's on you to use your powers of persuasion responsibly! Whether you need actionable tips to market your copywriting business, a push to raise your rates, or the courage to plant your flag in a new niche, we've got you covered. Over the years, we've met some extraordinary people who've helped us, and we're ready to help you avoid the pitfalls that so many copywriters find.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Nicole Morton (00:02):
Welcome to the Copy Table, the podcast for copywriters who want to get new ideas and inspiration for building and scaling a business you love.
Erin Pennings (00:10):
In this podcast, hosts Grace Fortune, Nicole Morton and Erin Pennings bring new topics and guests to the table.
Grace Fortune (00:17):
Every single episode, we're spilling the beans on how you can use your interests and expertise to define what success means to you and take steps to achieve it.
Nicole Morton (00:29):
Welcome back to the Copy Table. On this episode, we're going to continue our journey through the I Heart Processes theme that we've started for episode two. So, you know, started with Grace and her immediate introduction to us of why processes are important and then kind of continuing through now. We've already onboarded our clients, so you know this. We're going to start talking about processes in terms of kicking off your project. So today, one of the things that I love hearing Erin say is good fences make good neighbors. And so we are applying that to processes when we're talking about project briefs and the idea that good briefs make great client relationships. So Grace and Aaron and myself, I'm Nicole.
(01:18):
If you didn't know, digging into what briefs are and why they're essential and should be essential to your process, how and why they're used, how that you might go about incorporating this process if you haven't already into your business, how to measure success and the components of a brief. And then we'll talk a little bit more about how we transition this brief into your actual deliverable. So, so let's get started with the basics. Briefs, 101.
Erin Pennings (01:52):
Drum roll, please. Yes, and I think of briefs. There's a lot of different words that make sense here. I talk about copy decks a lot. People talk about project briefs. So realistically, when I talk about copy decks and briefs, a lot of times they're interchangeable, but there are some differences. So let's talk about what they are. Briefs fundamentally just set the stage for the guidelines of a project and they tend to be more geared towards specific deliverables, though not always than they are full scale projects. And so the brief tends to outline, okay, what are we doing? How are we delivering it? What are the guidelines? And so if it's an email sequence, what are we talking about? What do we need to be doing? What are we signing off on? What is some of the key messaging we want to include?
(02:43):
What does this do? What factors do we need to include in each email? So will there be multiple subject lines offered? Will there be one subject line offered? What are the boundaries of the project? And if you have this signed off on by the client to start with. Then what's really cool is you have a basis for edits and you say, no, this is what we agreed to. And from there it's a change order or it's an edit. Whether you include one edit, zero edits, two edits, whatever that looks like in your process, that way you said, well, this is what you signed off on. So if it's a big directional change, then you're free to do some upcharges. But because they have agreed to these. The scope, basically it's a detailed scope. So I do one version for email sequences.
(03:30):
I do one version if I'm writing articles for people. What are the SEO targets we're trying to hit? Is there a URL that whoever is programming the blog or uploading the blog needs to make sure to stick with? What are the word counts? What is the direction for the content that we're creating? Are there any bullet points? All of these pieces kind of go into this project brief. I've also got one that's more generic that I use for my retainer offer. It's like, okay, so what is the basis of what we're doing? What are, what is the overview of this? But it's like instead of having multiple pieces in the table, it's just one field in the table where it's like, when is this due? What are we doing?
(04:11):
And then a lot of this we've already handled in discussion, so it gets to be less detailed. So why is this so important? Oh, and I should probably say the website copy Website Coffee also has its own brief. But the copy deck for the website copy is more about what is the high level? What is the mini brand messaging around this? What is the mission? What is the vision? What is the purpose of this? What is the high level of the voice that we're going to be creating? Do we have a detailed voice guidelines? Is there a brand strategy that's been created? It is the home base for every document that happens as part of this project. So I've got one of these if I do brand messaging, I've got one of these if I do brand voice.
(04:55):
And when it comes together for writing the website copy or designing the funnel, it's the home base for all of that. Where I can say, okay, here's a link to your homepage copy, here's a link to the about page copy, here's a link to your services page copy. And then they're all set up the same way. So it's a very consistent Experience. Here's what you get on every single page of your website. Here's what your header should look like, here's what your footer should look like. It's all done within Google Documents and it's super simple. But by having the system in place, you can rinse and repeat and get the projects out very quickly. So why are they important? One, they make sure that the client's on board with what you're doing.
(05:33):
Two, they make sure that you have a super clear vision of what you're doing. So when you sit down to write, it's all laid out and it's really just about writing the project. Three, as you grow and as you scale, or if you need to offload some stuff, it's a very clear vision for what your audience needs or for rather what your subcontractor is going to need or what your employee is going to need if you go that route. So having those is absolutely essential. So we know what they are, we've talked about the purpose, we've talked about why they are so damn important. But I know that the two of you have some different takes on briefs. So Grace, I know you've got some thoughts around bad briefs and Nicole, you've got some thoughts around briefs from a agency perspective. Yes.
(06:17):
So I can talk about this stuff a long time. Because I do. I have some like hour long trainings on it. So what I want to know is your thoughts.
Grace Fortune (06:26):
Sure. Okay. So from the lens of a bad brief, I'm going to talk about like what makes a bad brief and some of the potential consequences of having a bad brief. Really, anything that is not clear makes a brief not good. Not clear is not good. So if there's anything confusing or imprecise, like, especially if, like when it comes to deadlines and strategy deliverables, it should all be as specific as possible. If it's not specific, then there's room for confusion, there's room for interpretation and that can lead to confusion. Really the whole point of a brief, in my opinion, is to help avoid confusion. If it's confusing, it's not a good brief.
(07:11):
The consequences of such are it could erode your client's trust in you, it could make the project more difficult, it can make the project drag out longer than it needs to, which drives down your profitability. It's more stressful for you as a copywriter. The brief has to identify the goal and purpose of the project and it has to be very clear as well as the scope and objectives.
Erin Pennings (07:35):
And I like what you said about avoiding confusion. That is a concise way to say it. Any places that you can reduce confusion, and then it gives you the opportunity to ask questions if you're not sure.
Grace Fortune (07:45):
Absolutely. And your client as well. Like you want to give your client the opportunity to say, I'm confused on this point. Let's clarify, and then you can update the brief so that it's not confusing for me. It should be as collaborative as possible.
Erin Pennings (07:58):
Yeah, I have thoughts on collaboration. But, Nicole, you have some different perspectives on briefs, specifically because of some of the agencies that you've contracted for, but also some of the ones that. I mean, also within your job and some of the briefs that you're creating there. Do you want to talk about that?
Nicole Morton (08:15):
Right. And ironically, it's a lot of what we just discussed. So the purpose of the brief is to eliminate any ambiguity around the scope and nature of the product that's being delivered. On the agency side, the brief is more detailed because one, the stakes are higher and you have more stakeholders. So the person who's writing the brief is not the person who's creating the content, who's not reviewing, who's not the person who's reviewing the content, who may or may not be the person that's delivering the product to the client. So because there are multiple stakeholders, you really need to be sure that there's absolutely no ambiguity. So, you know, we'll cover everything from keywords tone to a general. The digital content manager will write a brief in the form of an outline. We'll research all of the resources to be included.
(09:05):
We'll talk about what success looks like, about what the audience that we're speaking to needs to. So there's just. There's no ambiguity anywhere. You should be able to take this brief and immediately go execute a deliverable with no issues. And then we also have our quality assurance steps built into that. So once you're done, do not send it for review until you have checked with these four pieces of software for all of our quality assurance.
Erin Pennings (09:33):
I like Checklist in it, too. That's. That's really powerful.
Grace Fortune (09:37):
It sounds to me like the more people are involved in a project, the more important a brief is.
Erin Pennings (09:43):
Absolutely.
Grace Fortune (09:44):
Yeah. Everybody needs to be on the same page, especially if there's a whole bunch of people. Especially like with an agency team.
Erin Pennings (09:51):
But I'm also going to flip that, too. Yes. What if your team has a lot of people? But what if a client's team has a bunch of people? So there's someone who's been involved in the sales process who may not actually understand what the content needs to be, or there's someone who is in the content side of things who may not understand what the deliverables that were promised were. So getting that clarity and answering those questions like, well, this is what was purchased, this is what we need. But hey, we actually need these things. How can you shift any priorities but making sure that it's extremely clear to all parties?
(10:25):
I think just to round that out, to flip it to the other side, because the client have people on the team who have no idea and they're like, well, what about this and this? And it's like, that is not in the scope. And again, that tool to clarify.
Grace Fortune (10:37):
Yeah. And before we get into like the details of what a brief should include, I wanted to ask as well, at what point, Erin, do you think that we should be creating these briefs? Like, would you consider this to be part of the onboarding process or would you consider this to come afterwards?
Erin Pennings (10:53):
This is part of the deliverable process to me. So there are multiple times when it is relevant and it honestly depends on the scope of the agreement, what you're creating. If you are writing one article at a time, your briefs are even more critical because your client needs to again agree to these pieces. If I'm delivering website copy, I generally will just include it as part of the deliverable. And then there's a sign of checks and balances. Have you signed off on this client sign off? And Google Documents actually is a really cool building blocks piece that you can actually use to track signups and to track sign offs, track the different aspects of the process, which is, you know, talking about nerding out in tech. Like, did you know it could do this? Yeah.
Grace Fortune (11:41):
We'll see if we can put a link to that in the episode description so that people can access it if they want. Yeah, if we can. Let's actually get into what a good brief would include.
Erin Pennings (11:52):
Sorry, let me go back and answer. Like, I think that it should be part of every single project. I think it should be part of every single project. It doesn't matter what you're delivering. The reason is that it makes you look really professional as a copywriter and if you can brand it with your logo and your contact information so it looks really stellar. You know, use the different first page function of either Google or Word Docs. It makes you look like a pro and it makes you look like a big deal and it makes you look like you've got the system and this process in place, speaking of processes for doing everything. And it just builds more respect and trust with the client.
(12:30):
And they start to trust, not only that you know how to do the thing, but you know how to communicate about the thing.
Grace Fortune (12:36):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Like communication. Communication is like it doesn't matter if you know what you're doing. If nobody knows that you know what you're doing, then it's kind of a moot point.
Erin Pennings (12:47):
Or if you come across as a hot mess, which I know I do fairly frequently when we're talking online. But the reality is, when it comes to project work, it's a different story.
Grace Fortune (12:57):
Okay, so Erin, well, let's kind of break it down. What do you include in your briefs?
Erin Pennings (13:03):
Again, it's going to depend on the project. If it's an email sequence, there's one set of things that we control for. If it's a blog, there's an entirely different set of variables that tie into making the deliverable a success. If it's website copy, if it's a sales page, again, those are all different aspects. And so I think you need to know what information you need to collect to make the project a success and then create your own. And so in my Google Drive, I have templates for every kind of project that I do on a regular basis because it makes it that much easier to say. And I go create new document, create from template, and it makes it with those pieces.
(13:45):
And then I can pick and choose if there's something that's more applicable for a certain client, or if there's something that we're not worried about for that client for the new client, then I just remove them.
Grace Fortune (13:55):
Okay. Part of the brief should really have like the. What are we doing? So anything that has to do with the deliverables, timelines, that kind of things. Right, those, absolutely.
Erin Pennings (14:07):
It should have project name, client name, due date, review by date, if that's a piece, and final date. If you're doing a series of internal reviews versus external reviews, you need to identify what those are and if those belong in your project management system or if those belong in the brief. If you are tracking keywords, if it's SEO focused, you need to include those keywords in there. If there is like an SEO outline or any reference content, I include links to that information, links to those documents. So any resources get linked and listed. URL. Again, I'm thinking specifically articles, because we're talking so heavily on SEO. The URL, the slug of what that's going to be, the meta Description would go in there.
(14:56):
And whether that's final at that point or it gets plugged in later is okay, because a lot of times it might get tweaked based on the blog content. But if you've got all of those pieces that are either going to make the project a success for you, the project a success for whoever is your partner in this, regardless of whether it's on your side or the client's side. What else would I include? I'd include. So whatever details you think are necessary, key talking points are going to be really important. There's any messaging that has to be included or that we need to stick to anything for tone that we need to stick to. And again, it's going to depend how often you work with this client.
(15:32):
It's going to depend like if you're doing the same project for the same client over and over again, you don't need to go into voice, you don't need to go into these things because that's assumed. You can include it as reference material if needed. But you know, I would say the more you work with a client, the less you may need to include in it, right? And I'd say they're very relevant if you have specific details that you need to include, like for a blog. To that end, it's also really important to create them, especially if you have a retainer type relationship where it's like, these are the pieces that we want to do so that it's very clear for each project. And you know, there's some really nerdy processes that you can get into.
(16:12):
And like, I'm like, right, but like, so like I can plug this information in. You as a client could plug this information in where it just becomes insanely easy. So it's automated, so you plug it into the form and then all of a sudden your brief is built for you. And then you can have Zapier create Google Documents and Google Folders specifically for this client where it's all filled in. All those details that were filled in the ClickUp form get filled in. So all that you're having to do with the brief is like, be like, yep, that looks good. Or maybe tweak the formatting a little bit. Interesting. Interesting because I found like very quickly in doing this retainer process that I was spending an exorbitant amount of time setting up my briefs, setting up my documents.
(17:01):
And so if I can do that and then link it back to the ClickUp task, it just shortened the process by Instead of spending 15 minutes per brief, I'm spending 30 seconds.
Grace Fortune (17:11):
Nice. I like that. So another. Another thing that I've seen in some briefs. And Erin, I want. I would love your take on this. Some people put KPIs, like, how to measure success. If you're doing social media or whatever, it could be engagement or conversion. If it's SEO, it could be like, the number of keywords, how it compares to other articles that talk about the same topic, that sort of thing. So measuring success, how do you tie that into your briefs?
Erin Pennings (17:42):
So I think it, again, would depend for me, specifically for copy. I want to know how they're going to measure it, because that way I can write the copy or the content to meet that expectation. Oh, if we're insanely focused on SEO, and that's the main goal, I'm going to write for a person first, but I'm going to really heavily target these keywords. If there's a client who I recently have worked with, they said, oh, well, our SEO specialist flagged this blog for an update. I'm like, cool, did they give us SEO keywords? And they're like, well, no. I'm like, well, I'll take a guess and do my best, but I'm not an SEO specialist. So then it was more about updating it for thought leadership and insights. I mean, there's no metric for goal at that point.
(18:25):
It's just more like, okay, we're updating this to make it better. I think it's more important to know how it's going to be measured than specifically going back and tracking that within the brief. I would say the tracking, it would happen after the fact when you would do some more detailed reporting.
Grace Fortune (18:42):
Right, okay. So for example, if you're a social media content writer, you could say, like, we're targeting, I don't know, a 5% engagement rate. I'm not a social media person, so I don't know if that's even more remotely realistic. But we can say like, okay, the goal is 5% now, you know, if you hit it or not, once the.
Erin Pennings (19:01):
Content goes live, I mean, you could certainly go that. But I would probably drill down to goals. Is. Is this awareness? Are we trying to communicate something? Are we just trying to get engagement or are we selling? And if you have different levels of sales, like, is this current clients? Is this new audience acquisition? You know, what is it? So I would look at the goals from that perspective rather than from specific numbers, because those numbers get technical. I'm not technical as a writer. That may not be my strategy. You know, there's some things as strategy where I'm like, oh, look, you need SEO for this. Let me introduce you to my SEO contact. You need them more than you need me at this point.
Nicole Morton (19:41):
And a lot of times these briefs are in service of the larger strategic vision. Right. So I don't necessarily have KPMs for a blog post, but I do have KPMs for, to Aaron's point, either brand awareness or lead generation goals. And all of these moving parts are in service of that larger goal. And that's what we'll cover in our monthly meetings and all of our reporting. So my team understands how all of these cogs work together in service of the larger goal. But yeah, there's not necessarily kpms tied to a particular deliverable.
Grace Fortune (20:16):
Okay, so when it comes to measuring less specific goals like this, like less tangible goals, how would a copywriter who's listening to this know that they've hit those targets if they're not a measurable like number, for example, I would say.
Erin Pennings (20:32):
As a copywriter, you should not be dealing with the specific numbers for the writing of it in the briefs. Again, I think that comes after and that comes with what the client's reporting and their expectations are and how, what your process is for reporting those. If you do that. Because as a writer, you're responsible for a very critical piece of the deliverable. But there is so much more that goes into, to your example, social media success. How are they engaging? How are they building their audience? Are they running ads? Are they not running ads? If it's emails, you know, how strong is their audience? Can we, you know, are there deliverability issues that are out of your control?
(21:11):
Okay, so I would want to know for emails, what are the best performing subject lines, what emails are getting, your highest conversion rates so that I can emulate that. I am not going to worry so much about the numbers for website copy. It's like, what are you doing to drive people there? It's not going to be successful if you don't have a greater in place. So I think it's a disservice to focus on specific metrics like that and better in general to focus on the big picture. What is this part of? What are our overall goals? And I would go more generic. It's to increase awareness of this product, to introduce this product to our audience, to throw thought leadership out there, to educate, to form top of the funnel. Like all of those things are things that could be goals of this.
(22:00):
But it helps you as a writer create content that is going to meet those goals. So, you know, if it's going to be very heavily sales focused, you're going to use more conversion focused transactional language than if you are just saying, hey, I created this blog post. It's amazing. Whatever it is, whatever you're trying to put out there, this is some really good information. Here's what you're going to get from it. Getting people to click, but you're not trying to get them to buy per se. That's more like top to middle of funnel.
Nicole Morton (22:29):
Right. And that's the one thing that you need to be mindful of is your primary job is this deliverable is in service of whatever the conversion is. So if that, you know what's the ask, and that's what you're responsible for, is communicating enough that the reader or the prospect is compelled to take action in the way that you are deemed important.
Erin Pennings (22:53):
And what is that action?
Nicole Morton (22:54):
Yes.
Erin Pennings (22:54):
So.
Nicole Morton (22:55):
And making it crystal clear.
Erin Pennings (22:56):
Yeah. Okay. You know, the goal of this project is to drive clicks. The goal of this project is to drive sales.
Grace Fortune (23:03):
Okay. So an overarching goal, specific number, build.
Erin Pennings (23:07):
Authority or build warm fuzzies or make.
Nicole Morton (23:10):
Sure your CTA is the one that is in service of the larger strategic goal.
Grace Fortune (23:15):
Perfect. I was kind of hoping that would come up. Especially like as a launch copywriter. There's a lot of pressure on like launch copywriters to sell a product when a lot of people don't necessarily realize or understand that there's way more that goes on behind the scenes than just the words you write on the page. Yep, there are so many different factors outside of a copywriter's control that can contribute to an outcome of something that we write, to name a few examples. You've already touched on this, but is your client driving ads to the copy or not? How are they promoting it elsewhere? How many people are on their email list? What are they doing to grow their email list, their social media following? Like, what's going on in their industry? There are so many different things that are outside of your control.
(23:59):
Like maybe the sales page went down in the middle of a launch. You know, maybe their website crapped out.
Erin Pennings (24:05):
Like, we laugh because this has happened to me. And it's like, yeah, well what do you do?
Grace Fortune (24:11):
Like, these things happen. And like, for example, like you can write email copy and you know, maybe your client changed email marketing tools and now their email deliverability has gone down because they have to basically retrain their email marketing tool. Like, there's so Many different factors that we can't.
Erin Pennings (24:29):
And like, is it really a deliverability issue or is it that the reporting is different from platform to platform?
Nicole Morton (24:35):
Sure.
Grace Fortune (24:36):
Yeah.
Erin Pennings (24:36):
And how do you know for that? You can't, you can't possibly control for that. And that's why most copywriters don't promise results is because the copy, while a critical piece of the puzzle, is only one piece of the puzzle.
Nicole Morton (24:49):
I'm going to rein us back in a little bit. So, you know, because we can. Because applying the measuring success. Yes. We should have some definition in the brief. Yes. So you've defined what the CTA is of whatever the deliverable is. Right. So you know that's a critical component. But again, when you look at is the three moving parts, you know, is the. Is the product or the service the ask, the audience and the copy. So what do we think are critical components of making sure that you understand the audience and are able to communicate that in your brief? How do you make sure that the audience is defined within the brief so that the copywriter, if it's not yourself or if it's a team member, how do you make sure that they understand who they're writing to?
Erin Pennings (25:33):
This is going to be super subjective and from client to client, in my perspective, because who is the audience? Are they dormant? Are they tagged a specific way? I would say you get as clear as you can. And clearly I'm in email marketing mode right here, but I would say you've defined this upfront.
Nicole Morton (25:50):
Yes.
Erin Pennings (25:51):
And maybe you have a document that you're linking back. So this is just a brief description of the segment. So it would be like dormant people who haven't purchased since March of 2021 or whatever. That's the audience that we're targeting. Cool. You know that. And then you can reference that initial conversation that you had or the initial agreement that you had about who the audience is, are. And if you want more detail on it, you just go back and cross reference.
Nicole Morton (26:16):
So there should be a larger strategy document that defines who that audience is. And then, you know, if we're writing to that audience or a segment of that audience, then that information needs to be in the brief so that you can tailor that conversation appropriately.
Erin Pennings (26:31):
And I would say at the same time, though, so if you're writing for bigger companies, that's going to exist, or at least going to be a discussion point. If it's not, and this is stressing you out and you're listening to this, you're like, I write for people who aren't that detailed, that is okay too. Start with the minimum. And then as you go, you know, if it's like to everyone in the audience, cool, that's fine. Most of your emails aren't going to go to everyone in the audience, or most of your social media isn't necessarily going to be targeted to everyone in the audience. But there are going to be points where it is and you can slowly start to help segment that and figure out what it is that's driving them.
(27:11):
And maybe it's by demographic, maybe it's by purchase history, maybe it's by interests and pain points. Whatever it is okay because it's really easy to get nerdy and get super focused. But a lot of times those documents don't exist. So you do your best. Okay.
Nicole Morton (27:28):
Erin, you touched on making sure that voice is a part of the brief. So what do you think the minimum viable line items should be in any kind of brief template?
Erin Pennings (27:42):
That's a really good question. And it depends so heavily on the level of voice work that the client is aware of.
Nicole Morton (27:50):
That's fair.
Erin Pennings (27:51):
Some clients that I have worked with for a very long time, we've either developed this voice guide over time or they've got a brand strategy. Some of it I am making my notes as we go on voice. Some of them we're just doing the best we can with what we've got. And I look at their reference material and do my best to emulate it or offer suggestions for how to improve it. Ideally, we've been through a voice program like Brand Voice Academy where we can go and create that, or we've had a brand voice project. But I would say that's a reality for a much smaller portion of my clients, I would say that is the exception to the rule most of the time. And then we can start to elaborate on why it's so darn valuable.
Nicole Morton (28:35):
Yeah. And I think to your point, if you have reference material, if nothing else, you'll be able to study the reference material. And you know, we've. We've been at this long enough and there's a reason that we're drawn to this work, that you're kind of able to suss out some patterns, you know, and at least at minimum have a familiarity with what their public facing voice and tone is so that, you know you're not going to write something that's wildly different that will give everybody like emotional whiplash.
Grace Fortune (29:04):
Yeah. Kind of adding on to that. Like, it seems to me like there's a really good opportunity in these briefs to identify areas that are maybe lacking a little bit. For example, if the client doesn't have like a voice guide for their business or, you know, or if goals are maybe a little unclear, that's an opportunity to add value and say, hey, we did this project together. I noticed this. You and I can work on that. This is something that I can help with. This is what it would cost and it just gives an opportunity to work in different ways with your clients if that's something that you're interested in doing. What I would love to do here is like, so we've talked about briefs and what they should include and everything.
(29:44):
Like, how can we turn that into a process for every single one of our clients? Like, how do you deliver these briefs, Erin? And how are they kind of structured to be fair?
Erin Pennings (29:53):
A lot of the time the client doesn't see them till after we've created the project. It's part of the final deliverable. Ideally, you know, and it depends how many layers of approval your project has to go through. If it's one person that has to sign off, then it's maybe not as important to go hyper detailed or to get that sign off in advance, especially if you have a really good working relationship with them. If, however, it's, there's multiple layers, then it's really important to get sign off on the brief before you start. I think it's a use your judgment type of situation.
(30:24):
And if you have, you know, if there's been those yellow flags that we've talked about in other episodes or early in the contracting process where you're like, I'm going to need to hold this client really accountable, then use it more than if you know that it's going to be a different experience.
Grace Fortune (30:41):
Yeah.
Erin Pennings (30:42):
Not a hard and fast rule, but a lot of the time using them, I'm filling in the blanks before I start and then using that to guide my process and that helps keep me focused and accountable because I'm not having to go back and find all the documents and what could be taking me an hour to do all of a sudden turns into a six hour job because it gets a click away. Then I go Check Facebook or LinkedIn or, you know, oh, look, someone's, you know, I should go throw the ball for Doug.
Nicole Morton (31:10):
Oh, Doug.
Grace Fortune (31:12):
And forgive me if you've already mentioned this, Erin, do you make your briefs in like, is it a Google document or is it really pretty in Canva? Like, how does it, how does that.
Erin Pennings (31:21):
I don't, I Don't have time to make it pretty. I don't care about the pretty factor. I have it branded, so it's got a branded header at the top. It's all Google documents, though. The first page has the branded. The bottom of the first page has how to get in touch with me with questions. And then the rest of it, just a plain boring old Google document. There's no point to me in making the brief prettier than that. That's fair, doesn't serve anyone. And then it becomes a time thing as opposed to. I don't ever want anything to become a process because that's how we do it. I want it to become a process because it serves the end goal.
Nicole Morton (31:57):
Yes.
Grace Fortune (31:58):
I love that.
Nicole Morton (31:59):
Hello. Poll quote.
Grace Fortune (32:00):
Oh my gosh. Yes. Okay, so let's kind of recap what we've talked about. So a good brief leads to making the project clearer, more efficient and more successful. Let's do like a roundtable. What are some of the common mistakes that you see in briefs?
Erin Pennings (32:18):
The number one mistake after I've just said that it's not important for every single project and to use your judgment is not doing it is to not have anything. That's probably the number one mistake because other than that, you figure out what's important for you and what's important for each client. Some clients are going to care and need it. Some of it is just going to be for you. So start with what you need to make the project a success. What are the goal posts? What are the details, key messages, goals. I just said that twice. That's how important goals are. The rest just kind of falls into place.
Grace Fortune (32:55):
Okay, Nicole, what about you?
Nicole Morton (32:57):
I think leaving off the who it's for, so you know, it's very easy to talk about the what and the why it matters. But you really need to make sure that you are tying it all back to the audience that you're writing to. And I think a lot of times people who may be creating briefs just assume that because it's a project that the team might be familiar with that's not necessary. But it really is. It's. You're writing from a person first perspective. You really need to be able to put yourself in the shoes of whoever's going to be receiving this information.
Erin Pennings (33:30):
Yeah, I think that's a really good point.
Grace Fortune (33:32):
Yeah. And for me, I would say a big mistake is just not being clear in your briefs. Like you said, Nicole, not saying who it's for not being specific about what the deliverables are. What makes a brief completely pointless is ambiguity. It has to be crystal clear.
Erin Pennings (33:51):
I think we've covered a lot of great ground here. Does anyone have final thoughts here or. I think we've covered briefs in more detail than any of us thought we would. But there's been some really interesting discussions specifically about goals that I think are super helpful. Anything else that you want to know? Burning questions. Anything else that you think that the audience would want to know?
Nicole Morton (34:14):
I want to know what they think. I want to know what they think we've missed in our discussion. So things that we hadn't thought about. So if there are systems, processes or resources that we hadn't considered that you'd love to share with us and with the community, we would love to hear you on many of our social channels, at the copy table, on Facebook, Instagram or LinkedIn. We would love to know your secret sauce when it comes to creating client briefs.
Grace Fortune (34:41):
I would love to know that as well. If I could leave a final thought. I would love for people to understand who are listening to this, that you don't necessarily have to create ultra specific goals in your briefs like I originally thought you did. There are things that are outside of your control that might make it impossible to deliver on those goals, so you really don't need to add them. And I would really want to encourage anybody who's listening to this to take a look at what your briefing process is like, if you have one, and how you can improve on it. How can you make your briefs clearer and more easy for your clients to read?
Nicole Morton (35:20):
Nice.
Grace Fortune (35:21):
What about you, Erin?
Erin Pennings (35:22):
No, I want to know what questions they have because we've covered some stuff that I've never thought to cover in any of my trainings on briefs that I've offered. And so I. Your feedback here will be super helpful and vital. So reach out to us at the social channels or even send us an email. Hello, the copytable.com.
Nicole Morton (35:40):
We'D love to hear from you.
Erin Pennings (35:42):
Awesome. So thank you everyone for this discussion. Thank you for tuning in. Our next episode is sure to be exciting as we continue talking about processes. So next time we're actually going to talk more about when and how to outsource. So that's something that we all love talking about. We've done. We've been outsourced too, so I'm excited to talk about that.
Grace Fortune (36:08):
Me too. Thanks for listening. Bye everyone. Next time.
Welcome to the Copy Table, the podcast for copywriters who want to get new ideas and inspiration for building and scaling a business you love.
Erin Pennings (00:10):
In this podcast, hosts Grace Fortune, Nicole Morton and Erin Pennings bring new topics and guests to the table.
Grace Fortune (00:17):
Every single episode, we're spilling the beans on how you can use your interests and expertise to define what success means to you and take steps to achieve it.
Nicole Morton (00:29):
Welcome back to the Copy Table. On this episode, we're going to continue our journey through the I Heart Processes theme that we've started for episode two. So, you know, started with Grace and her immediate introduction to us of why processes are important and then kind of continuing through now. We've already onboarded our clients, so you know this. We're going to start talking about processes in terms of kicking off your project. So today, one of the things that I love hearing Erin say is good fences make good neighbors. And so we are applying that to processes when we're talking about project briefs and the idea that good briefs make great client relationships. So Grace and Aaron and myself, I'm Nicole.
(01:18):
If you didn't know, digging into what briefs are and why they're essential and should be essential to your process, how and why they're used, how that you might go about incorporating this process if you haven't already into your business, how to measure success and the components of a brief. And then we'll talk a little bit more about how we transition this brief into your actual deliverable. So, so let's get started with the basics. Briefs, 101.
Erin Pennings (01:52):
Drum roll, please. Yes, and I think of briefs. There's a lot of different words that make sense here. I talk about copy decks a lot. People talk about project briefs. So realistically, when I talk about copy decks and briefs, a lot of times they're interchangeable, but there are some differences. So let's talk about what they are. Briefs fundamentally just set the stage for the guidelines of a project and they tend to be more geared towards specific deliverables, though not always than they are full scale projects. And so the brief tends to outline, okay, what are we doing? How are we delivering it? What are the guidelines? And so if it's an email sequence, what are we talking about? What do we need to be doing? What are we signing off on? What is some of the key messaging we want to include?
(02:43):
What does this do? What factors do we need to include in each email? So will there be multiple subject lines offered? Will there be one subject line offered? What are the boundaries of the project? And if you have this signed off on by the client to start with. Then what's really cool is you have a basis for edits and you say, no, this is what we agreed to. And from there it's a change order or it's an edit. Whether you include one edit, zero edits, two edits, whatever that looks like in your process, that way you said, well, this is what you signed off on. So if it's a big directional change, then you're free to do some upcharges. But because they have agreed to these. The scope, basically it's a detailed scope. So I do one version for email sequences.
(03:30):
I do one version if I'm writing articles for people. What are the SEO targets we're trying to hit? Is there a URL that whoever is programming the blog or uploading the blog needs to make sure to stick with? What are the word counts? What is the direction for the content that we're creating? Are there any bullet points? All of these pieces kind of go into this project brief. I've also got one that's more generic that I use for my retainer offer. It's like, okay, so what is the basis of what we're doing? What are, what is the overview of this? But it's like instead of having multiple pieces in the table, it's just one field in the table where it's like, when is this due? What are we doing?
(04:11):
And then a lot of this we've already handled in discussion, so it gets to be less detailed. So why is this so important? Oh, and I should probably say the website copy Website Coffee also has its own brief. But the copy deck for the website copy is more about what is the high level? What is the mini brand messaging around this? What is the mission? What is the vision? What is the purpose of this? What is the high level of the voice that we're going to be creating? Do we have a detailed voice guidelines? Is there a brand strategy that's been created? It is the home base for every document that happens as part of this project. So I've got one of these if I do brand messaging, I've got one of these if I do brand voice.
(04:55):
And when it comes together for writing the website copy or designing the funnel, it's the home base for all of that. Where I can say, okay, here's a link to your homepage copy, here's a link to the about page copy, here's a link to your services page copy. And then they're all set up the same way. So it's a very consistent Experience. Here's what you get on every single page of your website. Here's what your header should look like, here's what your footer should look like. It's all done within Google Documents and it's super simple. But by having the system in place, you can rinse and repeat and get the projects out very quickly. So why are they important? One, they make sure that the client's on board with what you're doing.
(05:33):
Two, they make sure that you have a super clear vision of what you're doing. So when you sit down to write, it's all laid out and it's really just about writing the project. Three, as you grow and as you scale, or if you need to offload some stuff, it's a very clear vision for what your audience needs or for rather what your subcontractor is going to need or what your employee is going to need if you go that route. So having those is absolutely essential. So we know what they are, we've talked about the purpose, we've talked about why they are so damn important. But I know that the two of you have some different takes on briefs. So Grace, I know you've got some thoughts around bad briefs and Nicole, you've got some thoughts around briefs from a agency perspective. Yes.
(06:17):
So I can talk about this stuff a long time. Because I do. I have some like hour long trainings on it. So what I want to know is your thoughts.
Grace Fortune (06:26):
Sure. Okay. So from the lens of a bad brief, I'm going to talk about like what makes a bad brief and some of the potential consequences of having a bad brief. Really, anything that is not clear makes a brief not good. Not clear is not good. So if there's anything confusing or imprecise, like, especially if, like when it comes to deadlines and strategy deliverables, it should all be as specific as possible. If it's not specific, then there's room for confusion, there's room for interpretation and that can lead to confusion. Really the whole point of a brief, in my opinion, is to help avoid confusion. If it's confusing, it's not a good brief.
(07:11):
The consequences of such are it could erode your client's trust in you, it could make the project more difficult, it can make the project drag out longer than it needs to, which drives down your profitability. It's more stressful for you as a copywriter. The brief has to identify the goal and purpose of the project and it has to be very clear as well as the scope and objectives.
Erin Pennings (07:35):
And I like what you said about avoiding confusion. That is a concise way to say it. Any places that you can reduce confusion, and then it gives you the opportunity to ask questions if you're not sure.
Grace Fortune (07:45):
Absolutely. And your client as well. Like you want to give your client the opportunity to say, I'm confused on this point. Let's clarify, and then you can update the brief so that it's not confusing for me. It should be as collaborative as possible.
Erin Pennings (07:58):
Yeah, I have thoughts on collaboration. But, Nicole, you have some different perspectives on briefs, specifically because of some of the agencies that you've contracted for, but also some of the ones that. I mean, also within your job and some of the briefs that you're creating there. Do you want to talk about that?
Nicole Morton (08:15):
Right. And ironically, it's a lot of what we just discussed. So the purpose of the brief is to eliminate any ambiguity around the scope and nature of the product that's being delivered. On the agency side, the brief is more detailed because one, the stakes are higher and you have more stakeholders. So the person who's writing the brief is not the person who's creating the content, who's not reviewing, who's not the person who's reviewing the content, who may or may not be the person that's delivering the product to the client. So because there are multiple stakeholders, you really need to be sure that there's absolutely no ambiguity. So, you know, we'll cover everything from keywords tone to a general. The digital content manager will write a brief in the form of an outline. We'll research all of the resources to be included.
(09:05):
We'll talk about what success looks like, about what the audience that we're speaking to needs to. So there's just. There's no ambiguity anywhere. You should be able to take this brief and immediately go execute a deliverable with no issues. And then we also have our quality assurance steps built into that. So once you're done, do not send it for review until you have checked with these four pieces of software for all of our quality assurance.
Erin Pennings (09:33):
I like Checklist in it, too. That's. That's really powerful.
Grace Fortune (09:37):
It sounds to me like the more people are involved in a project, the more important a brief is.
Erin Pennings (09:43):
Absolutely.
Grace Fortune (09:44):
Yeah. Everybody needs to be on the same page, especially if there's a whole bunch of people. Especially like with an agency team.
Erin Pennings (09:51):
But I'm also going to flip that, too. Yes. What if your team has a lot of people? But what if a client's team has a bunch of people? So there's someone who's been involved in the sales process who may not actually understand what the content needs to be, or there's someone who is in the content side of things who may not understand what the deliverables that were promised were. So getting that clarity and answering those questions like, well, this is what was purchased, this is what we need. But hey, we actually need these things. How can you shift any priorities but making sure that it's extremely clear to all parties?
(10:25):
I think just to round that out, to flip it to the other side, because the client have people on the team who have no idea and they're like, well, what about this and this? And it's like, that is not in the scope. And again, that tool to clarify.
Grace Fortune (10:37):
Yeah. And before we get into like the details of what a brief should include, I wanted to ask as well, at what point, Erin, do you think that we should be creating these briefs? Like, would you consider this to be part of the onboarding process or would you consider this to come afterwards?
Erin Pennings (10:53):
This is part of the deliverable process to me. So there are multiple times when it is relevant and it honestly depends on the scope of the agreement, what you're creating. If you are writing one article at a time, your briefs are even more critical because your client needs to again agree to these pieces. If I'm delivering website copy, I generally will just include it as part of the deliverable. And then there's a sign of checks and balances. Have you signed off on this client sign off? And Google Documents actually is a really cool building blocks piece that you can actually use to track signups and to track sign offs, track the different aspects of the process, which is, you know, talking about nerding out in tech. Like, did you know it could do this? Yeah.
Grace Fortune (11:41):
We'll see if we can put a link to that in the episode description so that people can access it if they want. Yeah, if we can. Let's actually get into what a good brief would include.
Erin Pennings (11:52):
Sorry, let me go back and answer. Like, I think that it should be part of every single project. I think it should be part of every single project. It doesn't matter what you're delivering. The reason is that it makes you look really professional as a copywriter and if you can brand it with your logo and your contact information so it looks really stellar. You know, use the different first page function of either Google or Word Docs. It makes you look like a pro and it makes you look like a big deal and it makes you look like you've got the system and this process in place, speaking of processes for doing everything. And it just builds more respect and trust with the client.
(12:30):
And they start to trust, not only that you know how to do the thing, but you know how to communicate about the thing.
Grace Fortune (12:36):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Like communication. Communication is like it doesn't matter if you know what you're doing. If nobody knows that you know what you're doing, then it's kind of a moot point.
Erin Pennings (12:47):
Or if you come across as a hot mess, which I know I do fairly frequently when we're talking online. But the reality is, when it comes to project work, it's a different story.
Grace Fortune (12:57):
Okay, so Erin, well, let's kind of break it down. What do you include in your briefs?
Erin Pennings (13:03):
Again, it's going to depend on the project. If it's an email sequence, there's one set of things that we control for. If it's a blog, there's an entirely different set of variables that tie into making the deliverable a success. If it's website copy, if it's a sales page, again, those are all different aspects. And so I think you need to know what information you need to collect to make the project a success and then create your own. And so in my Google Drive, I have templates for every kind of project that I do on a regular basis because it makes it that much easier to say. And I go create new document, create from template, and it makes it with those pieces.
(13:45):
And then I can pick and choose if there's something that's more applicable for a certain client, or if there's something that we're not worried about for that client for the new client, then I just remove them.
Grace Fortune (13:55):
Okay. Part of the brief should really have like the. What are we doing? So anything that has to do with the deliverables, timelines, that kind of things. Right, those, absolutely.
Erin Pennings (14:07):
It should have project name, client name, due date, review by date, if that's a piece, and final date. If you're doing a series of internal reviews versus external reviews, you need to identify what those are and if those belong in your project management system or if those belong in the brief. If you are tracking keywords, if it's SEO focused, you need to include those keywords in there. If there is like an SEO outline or any reference content, I include links to that information, links to those documents. So any resources get linked and listed. URL. Again, I'm thinking specifically articles, because we're talking so heavily on SEO. The URL, the slug of what that's going to be, the meta Description would go in there.
(14:56):
And whether that's final at that point or it gets plugged in later is okay, because a lot of times it might get tweaked based on the blog content. But if you've got all of those pieces that are either going to make the project a success for you, the project a success for whoever is your partner in this, regardless of whether it's on your side or the client's side. What else would I include? I'd include. So whatever details you think are necessary, key talking points are going to be really important. There's any messaging that has to be included or that we need to stick to anything for tone that we need to stick to. And again, it's going to depend how often you work with this client.
(15:32):
It's going to depend like if you're doing the same project for the same client over and over again, you don't need to go into voice, you don't need to go into these things because that's assumed. You can include it as reference material if needed. But you know, I would say the more you work with a client, the less you may need to include in it, right? And I'd say they're very relevant if you have specific details that you need to include, like for a blog. To that end, it's also really important to create them, especially if you have a retainer type relationship where it's like, these are the pieces that we want to do so that it's very clear for each project. And you know, there's some really nerdy processes that you can get into.
(16:12):
And like, I'm like, right, but like, so like I can plug this information in. You as a client could plug this information in where it just becomes insanely easy. So it's automated, so you plug it into the form and then all of a sudden your brief is built for you. And then you can have Zapier create Google Documents and Google Folders specifically for this client where it's all filled in. All those details that were filled in the ClickUp form get filled in. So all that you're having to do with the brief is like, be like, yep, that looks good. Or maybe tweak the formatting a little bit. Interesting. Interesting because I found like very quickly in doing this retainer process that I was spending an exorbitant amount of time setting up my briefs, setting up my documents.
(17:01):
And so if I can do that and then link it back to the ClickUp task, it just shortened the process by Instead of spending 15 minutes per brief, I'm spending 30 seconds.
Grace Fortune (17:11):
Nice. I like that. So another. Another thing that I've seen in some briefs. And Erin, I want. I would love your take on this. Some people put KPIs, like, how to measure success. If you're doing social media or whatever, it could be engagement or conversion. If it's SEO, it could be like, the number of keywords, how it compares to other articles that talk about the same topic, that sort of thing. So measuring success, how do you tie that into your briefs?
Erin Pennings (17:42):
So I think it, again, would depend for me, specifically for copy. I want to know how they're going to measure it, because that way I can write the copy or the content to meet that expectation. Oh, if we're insanely focused on SEO, and that's the main goal, I'm going to write for a person first, but I'm going to really heavily target these keywords. If there's a client who I recently have worked with, they said, oh, well, our SEO specialist flagged this blog for an update. I'm like, cool, did they give us SEO keywords? And they're like, well, no. I'm like, well, I'll take a guess and do my best, but I'm not an SEO specialist. So then it was more about updating it for thought leadership and insights. I mean, there's no metric for goal at that point.
(18:25):
It's just more like, okay, we're updating this to make it better. I think it's more important to know how it's going to be measured than specifically going back and tracking that within the brief. I would say the tracking, it would happen after the fact when you would do some more detailed reporting.
Grace Fortune (18:42):
Right, okay. So for example, if you're a social media content writer, you could say, like, we're targeting, I don't know, a 5% engagement rate. I'm not a social media person, so I don't know if that's even more remotely realistic. But we can say like, okay, the goal is 5% now, you know, if you hit it or not, once the.
Erin Pennings (19:01):
Content goes live, I mean, you could certainly go that. But I would probably drill down to goals. Is. Is this awareness? Are we trying to communicate something? Are we just trying to get engagement or are we selling? And if you have different levels of sales, like, is this current clients? Is this new audience acquisition? You know, what is it? So I would look at the goals from that perspective rather than from specific numbers, because those numbers get technical. I'm not technical as a writer. That may not be my strategy. You know, there's some things as strategy where I'm like, oh, look, you need SEO for this. Let me introduce you to my SEO contact. You need them more than you need me at this point.
Nicole Morton (19:41):
And a lot of times these briefs are in service of the larger strategic vision. Right. So I don't necessarily have KPMs for a blog post, but I do have KPMs for, to Aaron's point, either brand awareness or lead generation goals. And all of these moving parts are in service of that larger goal. And that's what we'll cover in our monthly meetings and all of our reporting. So my team understands how all of these cogs work together in service of the larger goal. But yeah, there's not necessarily kpms tied to a particular deliverable.
Grace Fortune (20:16):
Okay, so when it comes to measuring less specific goals like this, like less tangible goals, how would a copywriter who's listening to this know that they've hit those targets if they're not a measurable like number, for example, I would say.
Erin Pennings (20:32):
As a copywriter, you should not be dealing with the specific numbers for the writing of it in the briefs. Again, I think that comes after and that comes with what the client's reporting and their expectations are and how, what your process is for reporting those. If you do that. Because as a writer, you're responsible for a very critical piece of the deliverable. But there is so much more that goes into, to your example, social media success. How are they engaging? How are they building their audience? Are they running ads? Are they not running ads? If it's emails, you know, how strong is their audience? Can we, you know, are there deliverability issues that are out of your control?
(21:11):
Okay, so I would want to know for emails, what are the best performing subject lines, what emails are getting, your highest conversion rates so that I can emulate that. I am not going to worry so much about the numbers for website copy. It's like, what are you doing to drive people there? It's not going to be successful if you don't have a greater in place. So I think it's a disservice to focus on specific metrics like that and better in general to focus on the big picture. What is this part of? What are our overall goals? And I would go more generic. It's to increase awareness of this product, to introduce this product to our audience, to throw thought leadership out there, to educate, to form top of the funnel. Like all of those things are things that could be goals of this.
(22:00):
But it helps you as a writer create content that is going to meet those goals. So, you know, if it's going to be very heavily sales focused, you're going to use more conversion focused transactional language than if you are just saying, hey, I created this blog post. It's amazing. Whatever it is, whatever you're trying to put out there, this is some really good information. Here's what you're going to get from it. Getting people to click, but you're not trying to get them to buy per se. That's more like top to middle of funnel.
Nicole Morton (22:29):
Right. And that's the one thing that you need to be mindful of is your primary job is this deliverable is in service of whatever the conversion is. So if that, you know what's the ask, and that's what you're responsible for, is communicating enough that the reader or the prospect is compelled to take action in the way that you are deemed important.
Erin Pennings (22:53):
And what is that action?
Nicole Morton (22:54):
Yes.
Erin Pennings (22:54):
So.
Nicole Morton (22:55):
And making it crystal clear.
Erin Pennings (22:56):
Yeah. Okay. You know, the goal of this project is to drive clicks. The goal of this project is to drive sales.
Grace Fortune (23:03):
Okay. So an overarching goal, specific number, build.
Erin Pennings (23:07):
Authority or build warm fuzzies or make.
Nicole Morton (23:10):
Sure your CTA is the one that is in service of the larger strategic goal.
Grace Fortune (23:15):
Perfect. I was kind of hoping that would come up. Especially like as a launch copywriter. There's a lot of pressure on like launch copywriters to sell a product when a lot of people don't necessarily realize or understand that there's way more that goes on behind the scenes than just the words you write on the page. Yep, there are so many different factors outside of a copywriter's control that can contribute to an outcome of something that we write, to name a few examples. You've already touched on this, but is your client driving ads to the copy or not? How are they promoting it elsewhere? How many people are on their email list? What are they doing to grow their email list, their social media following? Like, what's going on in their industry? There are so many different things that are outside of your control.
(23:59):
Like maybe the sales page went down in the middle of a launch. You know, maybe their website crapped out.
Erin Pennings (24:05):
Like, we laugh because this has happened to me. And it's like, yeah, well what do you do?
Grace Fortune (24:11):
Like, these things happen. And like, for example, like you can write email copy and you know, maybe your client changed email marketing tools and now their email deliverability has gone down because they have to basically retrain their email marketing tool. Like, there's so Many different factors that we can't.
Erin Pennings (24:29):
And like, is it really a deliverability issue or is it that the reporting is different from platform to platform?
Nicole Morton (24:35):
Sure.
Grace Fortune (24:36):
Yeah.
Erin Pennings (24:36):
And how do you know for that? You can't, you can't possibly control for that. And that's why most copywriters don't promise results is because the copy, while a critical piece of the puzzle, is only one piece of the puzzle.
Nicole Morton (24:49):
I'm going to rein us back in a little bit. So, you know, because we can. Because applying the measuring success. Yes. We should have some definition in the brief. Yes. So you've defined what the CTA is of whatever the deliverable is. Right. So you know that's a critical component. But again, when you look at is the three moving parts, you know, is the. Is the product or the service the ask, the audience and the copy. So what do we think are critical components of making sure that you understand the audience and are able to communicate that in your brief? How do you make sure that the audience is defined within the brief so that the copywriter, if it's not yourself or if it's a team member, how do you make sure that they understand who they're writing to?
Erin Pennings (25:33):
This is going to be super subjective and from client to client, in my perspective, because who is the audience? Are they dormant? Are they tagged a specific way? I would say you get as clear as you can. And clearly I'm in email marketing mode right here, but I would say you've defined this upfront.
Nicole Morton (25:50):
Yes.
Erin Pennings (25:51):
And maybe you have a document that you're linking back. So this is just a brief description of the segment. So it would be like dormant people who haven't purchased since March of 2021 or whatever. That's the audience that we're targeting. Cool. You know that. And then you can reference that initial conversation that you had or the initial agreement that you had about who the audience is, are. And if you want more detail on it, you just go back and cross reference.
Nicole Morton (26:16):
So there should be a larger strategy document that defines who that audience is. And then, you know, if we're writing to that audience or a segment of that audience, then that information needs to be in the brief so that you can tailor that conversation appropriately.
Erin Pennings (26:31):
And I would say at the same time, though, so if you're writing for bigger companies, that's going to exist, or at least going to be a discussion point. If it's not, and this is stressing you out and you're listening to this, you're like, I write for people who aren't that detailed, that is okay too. Start with the minimum. And then as you go, you know, if it's like to everyone in the audience, cool, that's fine. Most of your emails aren't going to go to everyone in the audience, or most of your social media isn't necessarily going to be targeted to everyone in the audience. But there are going to be points where it is and you can slowly start to help segment that and figure out what it is that's driving them.
(27:11):
And maybe it's by demographic, maybe it's by purchase history, maybe it's by interests and pain points. Whatever it is okay because it's really easy to get nerdy and get super focused. But a lot of times those documents don't exist. So you do your best. Okay.
Nicole Morton (27:28):
Erin, you touched on making sure that voice is a part of the brief. So what do you think the minimum viable line items should be in any kind of brief template?
Erin Pennings (27:42):
That's a really good question. And it depends so heavily on the level of voice work that the client is aware of.
Nicole Morton (27:50):
That's fair.
Erin Pennings (27:51):
Some clients that I have worked with for a very long time, we've either developed this voice guide over time or they've got a brand strategy. Some of it I am making my notes as we go on voice. Some of them we're just doing the best we can with what we've got. And I look at their reference material and do my best to emulate it or offer suggestions for how to improve it. Ideally, we've been through a voice program like Brand Voice Academy where we can go and create that, or we've had a brand voice project. But I would say that's a reality for a much smaller portion of my clients, I would say that is the exception to the rule most of the time. And then we can start to elaborate on why it's so darn valuable.
Nicole Morton (28:35):
Yeah. And I think to your point, if you have reference material, if nothing else, you'll be able to study the reference material. And you know, we've. We've been at this long enough and there's a reason that we're drawn to this work, that you're kind of able to suss out some patterns, you know, and at least at minimum have a familiarity with what their public facing voice and tone is so that, you know you're not going to write something that's wildly different that will give everybody like emotional whiplash.
Grace Fortune (29:04):
Yeah. Kind of adding on to that. Like, it seems to me like there's a really good opportunity in these briefs to identify areas that are maybe lacking a little bit. For example, if the client doesn't have like a voice guide for their business or, you know, or if goals are maybe a little unclear, that's an opportunity to add value and say, hey, we did this project together. I noticed this. You and I can work on that. This is something that I can help with. This is what it would cost and it just gives an opportunity to work in different ways with your clients if that's something that you're interested in doing. What I would love to do here is like, so we've talked about briefs and what they should include and everything.
(29:44):
Like, how can we turn that into a process for every single one of our clients? Like, how do you deliver these briefs, Erin? And how are they kind of structured to be fair?
Erin Pennings (29:53):
A lot of the time the client doesn't see them till after we've created the project. It's part of the final deliverable. Ideally, you know, and it depends how many layers of approval your project has to go through. If it's one person that has to sign off, then it's maybe not as important to go hyper detailed or to get that sign off in advance, especially if you have a really good working relationship with them. If, however, it's, there's multiple layers, then it's really important to get sign off on the brief before you start. I think it's a use your judgment type of situation.
(30:24):
And if you have, you know, if there's been those yellow flags that we've talked about in other episodes or early in the contracting process where you're like, I'm going to need to hold this client really accountable, then use it more than if you know that it's going to be a different experience.
Grace Fortune (30:41):
Yeah.
Erin Pennings (30:42):
Not a hard and fast rule, but a lot of the time using them, I'm filling in the blanks before I start and then using that to guide my process and that helps keep me focused and accountable because I'm not having to go back and find all the documents and what could be taking me an hour to do all of a sudden turns into a six hour job because it gets a click away. Then I go Check Facebook or LinkedIn or, you know, oh, look, someone's, you know, I should go throw the ball for Doug.
Nicole Morton (31:10):
Oh, Doug.
Grace Fortune (31:12):
And forgive me if you've already mentioned this, Erin, do you make your briefs in like, is it a Google document or is it really pretty in Canva? Like, how does it, how does that.
Erin Pennings (31:21):
I don't, I Don't have time to make it pretty. I don't care about the pretty factor. I have it branded, so it's got a branded header at the top. It's all Google documents, though. The first page has the branded. The bottom of the first page has how to get in touch with me with questions. And then the rest of it, just a plain boring old Google document. There's no point to me in making the brief prettier than that. That's fair, doesn't serve anyone. And then it becomes a time thing as opposed to. I don't ever want anything to become a process because that's how we do it. I want it to become a process because it serves the end goal.
Nicole Morton (31:57):
Yes.
Grace Fortune (31:58):
I love that.
Nicole Morton (31:59):
Hello. Poll quote.
Grace Fortune (32:00):
Oh my gosh. Yes. Okay, so let's kind of recap what we've talked about. So a good brief leads to making the project clearer, more efficient and more successful. Let's do like a roundtable. What are some of the common mistakes that you see in briefs?
Erin Pennings (32:18):
The number one mistake after I've just said that it's not important for every single project and to use your judgment is not doing it is to not have anything. That's probably the number one mistake because other than that, you figure out what's important for you and what's important for each client. Some clients are going to care and need it. Some of it is just going to be for you. So start with what you need to make the project a success. What are the goal posts? What are the details, key messages, goals. I just said that twice. That's how important goals are. The rest just kind of falls into place.
Grace Fortune (32:55):
Okay, Nicole, what about you?
Nicole Morton (32:57):
I think leaving off the who it's for, so you know, it's very easy to talk about the what and the why it matters. But you really need to make sure that you are tying it all back to the audience that you're writing to. And I think a lot of times people who may be creating briefs just assume that because it's a project that the team might be familiar with that's not necessary. But it really is. It's. You're writing from a person first perspective. You really need to be able to put yourself in the shoes of whoever's going to be receiving this information.
Erin Pennings (33:30):
Yeah, I think that's a really good point.
Grace Fortune (33:32):
Yeah. And for me, I would say a big mistake is just not being clear in your briefs. Like you said, Nicole, not saying who it's for not being specific about what the deliverables are. What makes a brief completely pointless is ambiguity. It has to be crystal clear.
Erin Pennings (33:51):
I think we've covered a lot of great ground here. Does anyone have final thoughts here or. I think we've covered briefs in more detail than any of us thought we would. But there's been some really interesting discussions specifically about goals that I think are super helpful. Anything else that you want to know? Burning questions. Anything else that you think that the audience would want to know?
Nicole Morton (34:14):
I want to know what they think. I want to know what they think we've missed in our discussion. So things that we hadn't thought about. So if there are systems, processes or resources that we hadn't considered that you'd love to share with us and with the community, we would love to hear you on many of our social channels, at the copy table, on Facebook, Instagram or LinkedIn. We would love to know your secret sauce when it comes to creating client briefs.
Grace Fortune (34:41):
I would love to know that as well. If I could leave a final thought. I would love for people to understand who are listening to this, that you don't necessarily have to create ultra specific goals in your briefs like I originally thought you did. There are things that are outside of your control that might make it impossible to deliver on those goals, so you really don't need to add them. And I would really want to encourage anybody who's listening to this to take a look at what your briefing process is like, if you have one, and how you can improve on it. How can you make your briefs clearer and more easy for your clients to read?
Nicole Morton (35:20):
Nice.
Grace Fortune (35:21):
What about you, Erin?
Erin Pennings (35:22):
No, I want to know what questions they have because we've covered some stuff that I've never thought to cover in any of my trainings on briefs that I've offered. And so I. Your feedback here will be super helpful and vital. So reach out to us at the social channels or even send us an email. Hello, the copytable.com.
Nicole Morton (35:40):
We'D love to hear from you.
Erin Pennings (35:42):
Awesome. So thank you everyone for this discussion. Thank you for tuning in. Our next episode is sure to be exciting as we continue talking about processes. So next time we're actually going to talk more about when and how to outsource. So that's something that we all love talking about. We've done. We've been outsourced too, so I'm excited to talk about that.
Grace Fortune (36:08):
Me too. Thanks for listening. Bye everyone. Next time.
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