January 7, 2025 • 22 mins
Welcome back to The Copy Table! Season 2 is all about the processes your copywriting business needs to thrive. In this episode, we're talking about offboarding - a must-have process that will make all your projects go out with a bang.
Listen in to Erin, Nicole, and Grace's latest conversation, and you'll learn:
- The big reason you must have an offboarding process in place, even if you don't stick to it rigidly.
- How the three of us (each with very different business models) approach offboarding.
- How to use offboarding as a tool for getting more work in the future (including getting referrals!)
Most importantly? You'll learn that you can use feedback given during your offboarding process to make your client's experiences better than ever.
The takeaway? There really is no one right way to build a copywriting business you love! Whether you need actionable tips to market your copywriting business, a push to raise your rates, or the courage to plant your flag in a new niche, we've got you covered. Over the years, we've met some extraordinary people who've helped us, and we're ready to help you avoid the pitfalls that so many copywriters find.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Nicole Morton (00:02):
Welcome to the Copy Table, the podcast for copywriters who want to get new ideas and inspiration for building and scaling a business you love.
Erin Pennings (00:11):
In this podcast, hosts Grace Fortune, Nicole Morton, and Erin Pennings bring new topics and guests to the table every single episode.
Grace Fortune (00:17):
We're spilling the beans on how you can use your interests and expertise to define what success means to you and take steps to achieve it. Hello, I'm Grace Fortune, and welcome back to the Copy Table. I'm here with my co hosts Erin Pennings and Nicole Morton, and we are here to dissect the nuts and bolts of your copywriting business processes and to help you create a more streamlined and successful freelance career. So today we're diving into a favorite copywriting topic of mine, and that's offboarding clients. So this is the goodbye, thank you for working with me, I love you episode of The Copy Table. So offboarding might sound like just the final checkbox in a project, but it's so much more than that.
(01:06):
It's an excellent opportunity to leave a great impression on your clients and ensure that they are not just happy but thrilled with your work. And it also gives you an opportunity to set the stage for future working referrals. And although we often focus on getting the project done or nailing the copy brief, how you wrap things up can impact your reputation and your relationships. So we're going to explore what offboarding really means when the work is done. We're also going to talk about our operating processes, our personal approaches, and also the common pitfalls of the offboarding process and how to avoid it. So I want to start off with just a quick roundtable. Erin, let's start with you. What is one of the key components of an offboarding process for you?
Erin Pennings (01:52):
This will come as no surprise to anyone who knows that I like to talk to people live and in person. I like to do kind of a temperature check call, a final call, see how things went for them. The opportunity to address any challenges that may have come up to maybe plant the seed for future projects, but to take their temperature on things. Because I often think things went one way and maybe someone else feels like they went another way, but that way we can get to the meat of it and leave things with a really great impression. And then I can from there say, hey, would you mind either saying that again so I can hit record and get a video testimonial, or would you be willing to leave me a written testimonial?
Grace Fortune (02:34):
Yeah, I couldn't have said that better myself. And Nicole, when for you when does offboarding actually start?
Nicole Morton (02:41):
So it depends if it is a project that's coming to a natural conclusion versus maybe a retainer that is coming to an end. So for the project base is built in, unless you have been smart enough to see the conversation about a project turning into a retainer and maybe that's a really great time to bring that up if you haven't already. And then for a retainer that's coming to an end, you know, to Erin's point, making sure that you get together to make sure there aren't any loose ends, making sure that they have all the information they need to close out the project and we have all the information we need to close out the project. Find out if they maybe want to circle back in three months, six months, depending on what their business situation is.
(03:29):
Also asking, you know, what's a good way to let people know how to get in touch with them, like what's a good referral for them. You want to continue to be a good steward of their brand and maintain the relationship that you've worked so hard to build. So kind of setting the stage for you to come back in whatever capacity that is in the future.
Grace Fortune (03:48):
Yeah. Nicole, I really loved how you had said that you use the offboarding opportunity to be a good steward of their brand as well. So it's not just about them bringing you more business, it's about you partnering with them and showing that you love their business as much as they should love working with you. So it's all about reciprocity and I really like that that kind of relationship is what leads to referrals and happy repeat clients. Right. It'll set you apart from other vendors who don't show that same level of care in some in their clients business. So what I would love to know, kind of do like a roundtable. I would love how you approach offboarding. Erin, we'll start with you.
Erin Pennings (04:28):
To Nicole's point, it really depends if it's the end of a project or the end of a retainer. I often work with both and it just depends on, it really depends on the client and the project. So again, like Nicole, if it's the end of a project, it's built in, it's like, let's schedule a quick wrap up call, just make sure that all the things are ready to go that they know how to use. Whatever the project, the copy or the deliverables are that I've given them, they know what next steps look like. It's also the opportunity for me to Potentially pitch another project, depending on, again, taking the temperature of the room. Maybe it's moving that into a retainer. Maybe it's like, oh, you know what we could do moving forward? We could do this, or this. When you're ready.
(05:09):
It's usually a very low pressure thing. It's not like, let's do this now. But over the course of longer projects, I often come up with other ideas. It's like, oh, hey, you know, you could do a blog on this or this to kind of plant these seeds or to tell the story further. Or this would be a really good opportunity for a, I don't know, a future webinar or some of these problems that are addressed. I just kind of get a handle on what their plans are. So that's for projects for retainers. Sometimes they come to an end naturally. And for whatever reason. But I still like to schedule this call to just like, hey, let's schedule a quick wrap call.
(05:43):
And again, make sure that they know all the pieces moving forward, that if there's anything else that is owed by either party, it's all set to go. But again, to leave on the positive note, to leave on the warm fuzzies, and maybe it's an opportunity to plant the seeds for future work. Again on that. So. But above all, I just want to always leave things on a good note.
Grace Fortune (06:07):
Yeah, 100%. Okay. So my offboarding process is pretty standardized for everyone. So basically what mine includes is a personalized message congratulating them on, you know, finishing the project with me, wrapping things up, thanking them for the. For their business and for trusting me with the project. It also includes a link to a form that says, no, you can leave me feedback here, or we can, you know, or we can get on a quick call to talk about it in person. But either way, the goal with that is to have an easy way for them to give me a review or feedback on what it was like to work with me and the results from my project. Also something that I like to do. And this is me being extra. You don't have to do this at all.
(06:54):
But depending on how long I've worked with them, the relationship, sometimes I do send like a little gift in the mail for them. Like if I, you know, if I've caught wind throughout our relationship that, you know, they're a big coffee fan like me, I might send them a bag of my favorite coffee or their favorite coffee or something. There's something to let them know that I am thinking of them. Plus, it's just Nice to get stuff in the mail. Like, who doesn't like presents? It also, my goal is for inevitably for them to provide additional work to me. Like, I don't, if I like the client, I don't want to stop working with them because they're cool. I like them. And cool people know more cool people.
(07:33):
It's the whole bird of the feather thing that we like, we keep saying if you like one client, they probably know more people like them. So it just, it breeds more people coming into your business. And Erin, like, I know that's something that you believe in very firmly. Like, is you have that whole A to Z client experience bundle, right? That whole concept where you provide them with an amazing experience and they give you referrals. More business.
Erin Pennings (08:00):
Yeah. And I think the whole premise behind that is, yes, you're delivering an incredible experience from A to Z from before you start to after you wrap. But I think it also means following up periodically after the project's complete to say, oh, hey, I'm just thinking of you, or hey, this came up and I, I, maybe it's just a quick email or depending on the relationship, a potential text. Be like, hey, you know, here's what's going on in the world. I saw this and I thought of you and I thought you might be interested in taking something. But I think it's also asking the question, hey, if you know of anyone who could use my support in a way similar or, you know, related to what we did together, I would love an introduction.
(08:41):
And if it's not a fit for me, I'd be more than happy to introduce them to someone else.
Grace Fortune (08:45):
Yeah.
Erin Pennings (08:47):
And about building that network and turning your relationships and your customers into your best referral sources.
Grace Fortune (08:54):
I love that. I especially like what you had said, Erin, about following up not just immediately after the project, but periodically after that. Like, a couple weeks prior to recording this episode of the Coffee Table, there was that big hurricane in the US A couple of my clients were in affected areas. So I reached out to them to say, hey, how are you doing? You know, is there anything that you need from me? How can I support you? And each one of them got back to me and they're like, we haven't worked together in a year. I can't believe you were thinking of me. So, like, they love that kind of stuff. So it's just, it's about building that relationship and making sure that they know that you haven't forgotten about them.
Erin Pennings (09:31):
Yeah, absolutely. And I think just staying top of mind it doesn't have to be a big huge gesture like with any friendship. I, I think that's the way I, I think of clients as friends and it's just they're professional friends as opposed to friends that I'm going to bring dump or you know, like all over whenever something goes wrong. But they become people who are always on my mind.
Grace Fortune (09:54):
Yeah, I love that. Like I have clients that I've sent cat names to and they've sent me pictures of their kids wedding day. Like it was just, it's just a really nice way to have, you know, just a little bit of happiness in your day and theirs.
Erin Pennings (10:07):
Yeah, agreed. You know, we've mostly talked about off boarding in a positive light because, and I firmly believe this, that not enough people do off boarding having been on the hiring end of things where people aren't following up. But what happens, you know, maybe it's offboarding call or conversation doesn't go as planned or someone does come up and they, you think things went really well and they're like, oh gosh, by the way, this could have been better. This could have been better. This could have been better. This could have been better. Because A, has that ever happened to either one of you? And B, how did you handle it? Or see what would your tips be if you haven't?
Nicole Morton (10:49):
Anybody who says it hasn't happened to them is not telling the truth. We've all gone through it. Okay, so one of two situations, either you are being fired as a provider or you are firing a client because they are not my brother in law.
Erin Pennings (11:10):
Yeah.
Nicole Morton (11:11):
So being fired, I have not experienced this, but I have, we have enough colleagues that we've kind of emotionally supported them through a situation like that. And owning whatever the situation is, being responsible for whatever the breakdown in communication or the missed deadlines or whatever it is just, you know, don't make excuses, own it, learn from it, move on. On the flip side, if you are firing a client, you can walk away respectfully. What is the saying? You don't have to like everybody, but you have to be kind. You know, making sure that you have everything that you need to walk away, your reputation intact. And maybe that is, you know, treating them, you know, killing them with kindness. That's, that's pretty much all you can do.
Erin Pennings (11:58):
Thank them for their honesty. I think even when things are not going as planned, I would far rather know where I stand with someone than have them be falsely kind. I hope that they're kind no matter What?
Grace Fortune (12:14):
But right.
Erin Pennings (12:14):
You know, I would rather know where things are, even if it's uncomfortable. I always want to reward. Sounds like such the wrong word. But I want to reward that because I think people are shy about giving being that direct a lot of the time. And so I want to thank them for taking the time to share that because it's my opportunity to better or stronger or know what red flags to watch for in the future.
Nicole Morton (12:43):
Yes, sure.
Erin Pennings (12:45):
So I always see it as a positive.
Grace Fortune (12:48):
Yeah, no, I agree. And a little story time for when something like this happened to me. It was one of the very first VIP sessions that I did for helping the client with marketing research and creating a marketing plan for a course that she was releasing. Obviously, I'm not going to names, but the TLDR version is. I asked for feedback at the end of it, and she had basically said, you know, this was really useful and really helpful. I feel like I could, and I quote, sell the crap out of this course now. But I'm a little bit confused as to what steps to take next. So what I had realized is that I gave her a lot of information on how to market her course and what to put in it, but I didn't really tell her.
(13:35):
I didn't really tell her how to grow her list. I didn't really tell her, like, the exact next steps to take. And for me, that is a bit of a misstep, because if I tell her the next steps, then she'll know what to do and she'll know that she needs to reach out to me for help with that specific step if she wants. But the thing is, if I neglected to tell her what the next steps are, you don't know what you don't know. You don't even know what to ask. So how I corrected that, you know, after the initial gut punch feeling, I'm feeling a little sorry for myself for about 20 minutes. What I did was I just put together a list of action items for her, and she was happy with it.
(14:13):
Even if you get feedback that isn't necessarily, this is awesome. 10 out of 10, 5 stars or whatever, it's not the end of the world. It's something that often is fixable, so there's no need to catastrophize feedback that isn't. This is perfect. So that was the mistake that I made. With that being said, I would love to kind of share a little bit about some of the pitfalls with offboarding and how you can avoid them. Like, I don't want to take too much time on it, but it would be helpful. And number one, when, immediately when I think of pitfalls on offboarding, I think about my mistake. Insufficient guidance on how to do the next steps.
(14:55):
So making sure you put in like whether it's in your deliverables or your off boarding email or on your live call, as with, you know, you, Nicole and Erin telling them what the next steps are, providing additional resources or access to different trainings if possible, can be a really great part offboarding. What about you guys? What kind of pitfalls can you see with offboarding?
Erin Pennings (15:17):
I think the number one pitfall that I see with off boarding is people just not doing it. People, here's your stuff. And then flying off into the sunset. And while that's not wrong per se, like, yes, I've done my work as long as it ends, you know, as long as everyone's happy with the deliverables. But I just think that there's an opportunity for a continued relationship that is missed, positive or negative. But I think, you know, there's a stat out there and I don't have it in front of me. But people pay just as much attention to how a business responds to poor feedback or negative constructive feedback as they do to what the reviews are in the first place.
(16:01):
They're more likely that the stats say that people are more likely to trust a company that responds positively to the negative or takes the time to respond rather than. And I think that's really important when it comes time to feedback too. So how are you responding to this? How are you appreciating their response? Again, it doesn't have to be negative, but I think a lot of people are scared for what the feedback is going to be, so they just don't do it. People are getting nervous like, oh, I didn't go as planned. I'm just gonna exit stage left very quietly. And I think that's a mistake and it's a missed opportunity. If nothing else, then for growing purposes because as likely as not, they're going to say stuff that they really liked.
(16:45):
In the way I'm talking, it sounds like, oh my gosh, all of Erin's experiences are negative. And that couldn't be further from the truth. I just feel like not doing it out of fear, like making any decision out of fear is probably not the best way to run a business or to go forward. That's where growth comes from.
Grace Fortune (17:01):
I love that. Yeah. What about you, Nicole?
Nicole Morton (17:04):
I don't want this to Sound cynical, but it's your last opportunity to train them how to speak about you in public. So, you know, that sounds more harsh than I intended, but, you know, if you're leaving on a good note, that's always easy. If it's a fractious kind of separation, cover all your bases. You know, make sure that you've fulfilled your end of the bargain. You've cleaned up your mess, whatever that is. You've left them with enough information to be able to pick up where you left off or whatever. But, you know, make sure that your reputation is intact. I've said that before, but you're. Again, this is maybe the last interaction that you have with them. Not for lack of trying, but, you know, make sure that you set the stage that they know how to refer to you in your absence.
Grace Fortune (17:55):
And to add on to that, I also want to point out that a lot of times if somebody's going to give you negative feedback, if you give them the space to say what's on their mind and you can respond to it in a constructive and positive way and maybe resolve the problem, they've blown off their steam. They're not likely to sit there and badmouth you on Google reviews or whatever. If they've, if they've already spoken their piece and you've already said, oh, okay, let's. Let's work this out together every now and then. You could still potentially get somebody who will leave a negative review or whatever, but at that point, you've done all you could. It's out of your hands. You. You can only control what you can control.
Erin Pennings (18:33):
Yes, well, and I think, you know, we're focusing a lot on the negative, but, yeah, most, more often than not, you're going to get new ideas for how to talk about what you do. And, you know, yes, there's opportunities to improve. There's always going to be ways to do better. And I think seeing them as opportunities rather than as negatives is important. But I can't even tell you how many times. So someone that said, oh, I love what you did, I didn't know that you did xyz. And in turn, that's actually what I got out of this. That's what you helped me solve. And I'm like, well, that's the best voice of customer that I've ever gotten is hearing it straight from the horse's mouth. And it often comes unbidden. And the other thing is, they're like, have you thought about doing blah, blah?
(19:21):
And I'm like, Tell me more.
Nicole Morton (19:23):
Well, yeah, and to your point, that's how Clarity Catalyst came about, because, you know, and this goes back to, you know, finding your zone of genius, it may have become so naturally to you that you don't even know that you know, my air quotes delivered it. And that may be a springboard for an entirely new opportunity in your business. So Erin's point, don't leave that to chance. You know, take every opportunity you can to find out how their experience was, how in. In their own words, what it was like to work. Work with you, what they loved, what their takeaways are.
Grace Fortune (19:53):
Yeah.
Erin Pennings (19:54):
And to add to that, if you do it correctly, even if you don't get it recorded, or they're like, sure, I'll leave you a view. What a review. What you want me to say, you'd be like, you know, based on this conversation, I could write up some stuff that sounded good that I'd love to be able to share with people. And then you can write the review for them and they can change it however they want. Again, having something to edit and reflect back made it easy on them to help you.
Nicole Morton (20:18):
Yep.
Grace Fortune (20:18):
Make it. Make it easy for them to give you feedback and a review. I love that. One other pitfall before we wrap up is you want to avoid forgetting to celebrate their success. If something went well, have a celebratory tone, be their offboarding documentation, like your. Your emails or whatever. It's, you know, it takes a lot of time and effort and. And trust to go through a copywriting project. So, like, celebrate what they're getting out of it. Celebrate. Celebrate any new wins in their business. Let them know, like, if there's any ways to repurpose what they've done with you, maybe share that with them, and that could open up the door for other opportunities as well. Like, I worked for. Just in the last week, I worked for a really great client of mine. One of my favorites, actually.
(21:03):
I wrote an email sequence to promote a bundle that she created, and I wrote 80 meals in that bundle or in the sequence. And there was a social media post that I wrote for her as well. Right. So it's just one of those things that you can repurpose content and create additional work for yourself that way. So celebrating success is a very important step to offboarding, I think.
Erin Pennings (21:29):
100%, I agree.
Grace Fortune (21:31):
Yeah. So to wrap up, I heavily encourage anybody who's listening to this to consider how you're offboarding your clients and to just implement some of what we've shared with you today. Even if you just start small, just make one or two little changes to how you offboard your clients and just write down the process. Like how are you going to go about doing this for future clients? What makes sense for your business? What do you feel comfortable doing? And I would also love to hear your feedback on these tips that we've given you. What's one thing that you're going to implement and let us know how it works out. If you, if you have a lot of success from your off boarding after listening to this, we'd love to hear about it. And you can find us on the coffee table dot com.
(22:20):
You can find us all over social media. We would love to hear from you.
Erin Pennings (22:24):
Hear hear. Thank you for tuning in.
Grace Fortune (22:27):
Thanks so much.
Welcome to the Copy Table, the podcast for copywriters who want to get new ideas and inspiration for building and scaling a business you love.
Erin Pennings (00:11):
In this podcast, hosts Grace Fortune, Nicole Morton, and Erin Pennings bring new topics and guests to the table every single episode.
Grace Fortune (00:17):
We're spilling the beans on how you can use your interests and expertise to define what success means to you and take steps to achieve it. Hello, I'm Grace Fortune, and welcome back to the Copy Table. I'm here with my co hosts Erin Pennings and Nicole Morton, and we are here to dissect the nuts and bolts of your copywriting business processes and to help you create a more streamlined and successful freelance career. So today we're diving into a favorite copywriting topic of mine, and that's offboarding clients. So this is the goodbye, thank you for working with me, I love you episode of The Copy Table. So offboarding might sound like just the final checkbox in a project, but it's so much more than that.
(01:06):
It's an excellent opportunity to leave a great impression on your clients and ensure that they are not just happy but thrilled with your work. And it also gives you an opportunity to set the stage for future working referrals. And although we often focus on getting the project done or nailing the copy brief, how you wrap things up can impact your reputation and your relationships. So we're going to explore what offboarding really means when the work is done. We're also going to talk about our operating processes, our personal approaches, and also the common pitfalls of the offboarding process and how to avoid it. So I want to start off with just a quick roundtable. Erin, let's start with you. What is one of the key components of an offboarding process for you?
Erin Pennings (01:52):
This will come as no surprise to anyone who knows that I like to talk to people live and in person. I like to do kind of a temperature check call, a final call, see how things went for them. The opportunity to address any challenges that may have come up to maybe plant the seed for future projects, but to take their temperature on things. Because I often think things went one way and maybe someone else feels like they went another way, but that way we can get to the meat of it and leave things with a really great impression. And then I can from there say, hey, would you mind either saying that again so I can hit record and get a video testimonial, or would you be willing to leave me a written testimonial?
Grace Fortune (02:34):
Yeah, I couldn't have said that better myself. And Nicole, when for you when does offboarding actually start?
Nicole Morton (02:41):
So it depends if it is a project that's coming to a natural conclusion versus maybe a retainer that is coming to an end. So for the project base is built in, unless you have been smart enough to see the conversation about a project turning into a retainer and maybe that's a really great time to bring that up if you haven't already. And then for a retainer that's coming to an end, you know, to Erin's point, making sure that you get together to make sure there aren't any loose ends, making sure that they have all the information they need to close out the project and we have all the information we need to close out the project. Find out if they maybe want to circle back in three months, six months, depending on what their business situation is.
(03:29):
Also asking, you know, what's a good way to let people know how to get in touch with them, like what's a good referral for them. You want to continue to be a good steward of their brand and maintain the relationship that you've worked so hard to build. So kind of setting the stage for you to come back in whatever capacity that is in the future.
Grace Fortune (03:48):
Yeah. Nicole, I really loved how you had said that you use the offboarding opportunity to be a good steward of their brand as well. So it's not just about them bringing you more business, it's about you partnering with them and showing that you love their business as much as they should love working with you. So it's all about reciprocity and I really like that that kind of relationship is what leads to referrals and happy repeat clients. Right. It'll set you apart from other vendors who don't show that same level of care in some in their clients business. So what I would love to know, kind of do like a roundtable. I would love how you approach offboarding. Erin, we'll start with you.
Erin Pennings (04:28):
To Nicole's point, it really depends if it's the end of a project or the end of a retainer. I often work with both and it just depends on, it really depends on the client and the project. So again, like Nicole, if it's the end of a project, it's built in, it's like, let's schedule a quick wrap up call, just make sure that all the things are ready to go that they know how to use. Whatever the project, the copy or the deliverables are that I've given them, they know what next steps look like. It's also the opportunity for me to Potentially pitch another project, depending on, again, taking the temperature of the room. Maybe it's moving that into a retainer. Maybe it's like, oh, you know what we could do moving forward? We could do this, or this. When you're ready.
(05:09):
It's usually a very low pressure thing. It's not like, let's do this now. But over the course of longer projects, I often come up with other ideas. It's like, oh, hey, you know, you could do a blog on this or this to kind of plant these seeds or to tell the story further. Or this would be a really good opportunity for a, I don't know, a future webinar or some of these problems that are addressed. I just kind of get a handle on what their plans are. So that's for projects for retainers. Sometimes they come to an end naturally. And for whatever reason. But I still like to schedule this call to just like, hey, let's schedule a quick wrap call.
(05:43):
And again, make sure that they know all the pieces moving forward, that if there's anything else that is owed by either party, it's all set to go. But again, to leave on the positive note, to leave on the warm fuzzies, and maybe it's an opportunity to plant the seeds for future work. Again on that. So. But above all, I just want to always leave things on a good note.
Grace Fortune (06:07):
Yeah, 100%. Okay. So my offboarding process is pretty standardized for everyone. So basically what mine includes is a personalized message congratulating them on, you know, finishing the project with me, wrapping things up, thanking them for the. For their business and for trusting me with the project. It also includes a link to a form that says, no, you can leave me feedback here, or we can, you know, or we can get on a quick call to talk about it in person. But either way, the goal with that is to have an easy way for them to give me a review or feedback on what it was like to work with me and the results from my project. Also something that I like to do. And this is me being extra. You don't have to do this at all.
(06:54):
But depending on how long I've worked with them, the relationship, sometimes I do send like a little gift in the mail for them. Like if I, you know, if I've caught wind throughout our relationship that, you know, they're a big coffee fan like me, I might send them a bag of my favorite coffee or their favorite coffee or something. There's something to let them know that I am thinking of them. Plus, it's just Nice to get stuff in the mail. Like, who doesn't like presents? It also, my goal is for inevitably for them to provide additional work to me. Like, I don't, if I like the client, I don't want to stop working with them because they're cool. I like them. And cool people know more cool people.
(07:33):
It's the whole bird of the feather thing that we like, we keep saying if you like one client, they probably know more people like them. So it just, it breeds more people coming into your business. And Erin, like, I know that's something that you believe in very firmly. Like, is you have that whole A to Z client experience bundle, right? That whole concept where you provide them with an amazing experience and they give you referrals. More business.
Erin Pennings (08:00):
Yeah. And I think the whole premise behind that is, yes, you're delivering an incredible experience from A to Z from before you start to after you wrap. But I think it also means following up periodically after the project's complete to say, oh, hey, I'm just thinking of you, or hey, this came up and I, I, maybe it's just a quick email or depending on the relationship, a potential text. Be like, hey, you know, here's what's going on in the world. I saw this and I thought of you and I thought you might be interested in taking something. But I think it's also asking the question, hey, if you know of anyone who could use my support in a way similar or, you know, related to what we did together, I would love an introduction.
(08:41):
And if it's not a fit for me, I'd be more than happy to introduce them to someone else.
Grace Fortune (08:45):
Yeah.
Erin Pennings (08:47):
And about building that network and turning your relationships and your customers into your best referral sources.
Grace Fortune (08:54):
I love that. I especially like what you had said, Erin, about following up not just immediately after the project, but periodically after that. Like, a couple weeks prior to recording this episode of the Coffee Table, there was that big hurricane in the US A couple of my clients were in affected areas. So I reached out to them to say, hey, how are you doing? You know, is there anything that you need from me? How can I support you? And each one of them got back to me and they're like, we haven't worked together in a year. I can't believe you were thinking of me. So, like, they love that kind of stuff. So it's just, it's about building that relationship and making sure that they know that you haven't forgotten about them.
Erin Pennings (09:31):
Yeah, absolutely. And I think just staying top of mind it doesn't have to be a big huge gesture like with any friendship. I, I think that's the way I, I think of clients as friends and it's just they're professional friends as opposed to friends that I'm going to bring dump or you know, like all over whenever something goes wrong. But they become people who are always on my mind.
Grace Fortune (09:54):
Yeah, I love that. Like I have clients that I've sent cat names to and they've sent me pictures of their kids wedding day. Like it was just, it's just a really nice way to have, you know, just a little bit of happiness in your day and theirs.
Erin Pennings (10:07):
Yeah, agreed. You know, we've mostly talked about off boarding in a positive light because, and I firmly believe this, that not enough people do off boarding having been on the hiring end of things where people aren't following up. But what happens, you know, maybe it's offboarding call or conversation doesn't go as planned or someone does come up and they, you think things went really well and they're like, oh gosh, by the way, this could have been better. This could have been better. This could have been better. This could have been better. Because A, has that ever happened to either one of you? And B, how did you handle it? Or see what would your tips be if you haven't?
Nicole Morton (10:49):
Anybody who says it hasn't happened to them is not telling the truth. We've all gone through it. Okay, so one of two situations, either you are being fired as a provider or you are firing a client because they are not my brother in law.
Erin Pennings (11:10):
Yeah.
Nicole Morton (11:11):
So being fired, I have not experienced this, but I have, we have enough colleagues that we've kind of emotionally supported them through a situation like that. And owning whatever the situation is, being responsible for whatever the breakdown in communication or the missed deadlines or whatever it is just, you know, don't make excuses, own it, learn from it, move on. On the flip side, if you are firing a client, you can walk away respectfully. What is the saying? You don't have to like everybody, but you have to be kind. You know, making sure that you have everything that you need to walk away, your reputation intact. And maybe that is, you know, treating them, you know, killing them with kindness. That's, that's pretty much all you can do.
Erin Pennings (11:58):
Thank them for their honesty. I think even when things are not going as planned, I would far rather know where I stand with someone than have them be falsely kind. I hope that they're kind no matter What?
Grace Fortune (12:14):
But right.
Erin Pennings (12:14):
You know, I would rather know where things are, even if it's uncomfortable. I always want to reward. Sounds like such the wrong word. But I want to reward that because I think people are shy about giving being that direct a lot of the time. And so I want to thank them for taking the time to share that because it's my opportunity to better or stronger or know what red flags to watch for in the future.
Nicole Morton (12:43):
Yes, sure.
Erin Pennings (12:45):
So I always see it as a positive.
Grace Fortune (12:48):
Yeah, no, I agree. And a little story time for when something like this happened to me. It was one of the very first VIP sessions that I did for helping the client with marketing research and creating a marketing plan for a course that she was releasing. Obviously, I'm not going to names, but the TLDR version is. I asked for feedback at the end of it, and she had basically said, you know, this was really useful and really helpful. I feel like I could, and I quote, sell the crap out of this course now. But I'm a little bit confused as to what steps to take next. So what I had realized is that I gave her a lot of information on how to market her course and what to put in it, but I didn't really tell her.
(13:35):
I didn't really tell her how to grow her list. I didn't really tell her, like, the exact next steps to take. And for me, that is a bit of a misstep, because if I tell her the next steps, then she'll know what to do and she'll know that she needs to reach out to me for help with that specific step if she wants. But the thing is, if I neglected to tell her what the next steps are, you don't know what you don't know. You don't even know what to ask. So how I corrected that, you know, after the initial gut punch feeling, I'm feeling a little sorry for myself for about 20 minutes. What I did was I just put together a list of action items for her, and she was happy with it.
(14:13):
Even if you get feedback that isn't necessarily, this is awesome. 10 out of 10, 5 stars or whatever, it's not the end of the world. It's something that often is fixable, so there's no need to catastrophize feedback that isn't. This is perfect. So that was the mistake that I made. With that being said, I would love to kind of share a little bit about some of the pitfalls with offboarding and how you can avoid them. Like, I don't want to take too much time on it, but it would be helpful. And number one, when, immediately when I think of pitfalls on offboarding, I think about my mistake. Insufficient guidance on how to do the next steps.
(14:55):
So making sure you put in like whether it's in your deliverables or your off boarding email or on your live call, as with, you know, you, Nicole and Erin telling them what the next steps are, providing additional resources or access to different trainings if possible, can be a really great part offboarding. What about you guys? What kind of pitfalls can you see with offboarding?
Erin Pennings (15:17):
I think the number one pitfall that I see with off boarding is people just not doing it. People, here's your stuff. And then flying off into the sunset. And while that's not wrong per se, like, yes, I've done my work as long as it ends, you know, as long as everyone's happy with the deliverables. But I just think that there's an opportunity for a continued relationship that is missed, positive or negative. But I think, you know, there's a stat out there and I don't have it in front of me. But people pay just as much attention to how a business responds to poor feedback or negative constructive feedback as they do to what the reviews are in the first place.
(16:01):
They're more likely that the stats say that people are more likely to trust a company that responds positively to the negative or takes the time to respond rather than. And I think that's really important when it comes time to feedback too. So how are you responding to this? How are you appreciating their response? Again, it doesn't have to be negative, but I think a lot of people are scared for what the feedback is going to be, so they just don't do it. People are getting nervous like, oh, I didn't go as planned. I'm just gonna exit stage left very quietly. And I think that's a mistake and it's a missed opportunity. If nothing else, then for growing purposes because as likely as not, they're going to say stuff that they really liked.
(16:45):
In the way I'm talking, it sounds like, oh my gosh, all of Erin's experiences are negative. And that couldn't be further from the truth. I just feel like not doing it out of fear, like making any decision out of fear is probably not the best way to run a business or to go forward. That's where growth comes from.
Grace Fortune (17:01):
I love that. Yeah. What about you, Nicole?
Nicole Morton (17:04):
I don't want this to Sound cynical, but it's your last opportunity to train them how to speak about you in public. So, you know, that sounds more harsh than I intended, but, you know, if you're leaving on a good note, that's always easy. If it's a fractious kind of separation, cover all your bases. You know, make sure that you've fulfilled your end of the bargain. You've cleaned up your mess, whatever that is. You've left them with enough information to be able to pick up where you left off or whatever. But, you know, make sure that your reputation is intact. I've said that before, but you're. Again, this is maybe the last interaction that you have with them. Not for lack of trying, but, you know, make sure that you set the stage that they know how to refer to you in your absence.
Grace Fortune (17:55):
And to add on to that, I also want to point out that a lot of times if somebody's going to give you negative feedback, if you give them the space to say what's on their mind and you can respond to it in a constructive and positive way and maybe resolve the problem, they've blown off their steam. They're not likely to sit there and badmouth you on Google reviews or whatever. If they've, if they've already spoken their piece and you've already said, oh, okay, let's. Let's work this out together every now and then. You could still potentially get somebody who will leave a negative review or whatever, but at that point, you've done all you could. It's out of your hands. You. You can only control what you can control.
Erin Pennings (18:33):
Yes, well, and I think, you know, we're focusing a lot on the negative, but, yeah, most, more often than not, you're going to get new ideas for how to talk about what you do. And, you know, yes, there's opportunities to improve. There's always going to be ways to do better. And I think seeing them as opportunities rather than as negatives is important. But I can't even tell you how many times. So someone that said, oh, I love what you did, I didn't know that you did xyz. And in turn, that's actually what I got out of this. That's what you helped me solve. And I'm like, well, that's the best voice of customer that I've ever gotten is hearing it straight from the horse's mouth. And it often comes unbidden. And the other thing is, they're like, have you thought about doing blah, blah?
(19:21):
And I'm like, Tell me more.
Nicole Morton (19:23):
Well, yeah, and to your point, that's how Clarity Catalyst came about, because, you know, and this goes back to, you know, finding your zone of genius, it may have become so naturally to you that you don't even know that you know, my air quotes delivered it. And that may be a springboard for an entirely new opportunity in your business. So Erin's point, don't leave that to chance. You know, take every opportunity you can to find out how their experience was, how in. In their own words, what it was like to work. Work with you, what they loved, what their takeaways are.
Grace Fortune (19:53):
Yeah.
Erin Pennings (19:54):
And to add to that, if you do it correctly, even if you don't get it recorded, or they're like, sure, I'll leave you a view. What a review. What you want me to say, you'd be like, you know, based on this conversation, I could write up some stuff that sounded good that I'd love to be able to share with people. And then you can write the review for them and they can change it however they want. Again, having something to edit and reflect back made it easy on them to help you.
Nicole Morton (20:18):
Yep.
Grace Fortune (20:18):
Make it. Make it easy for them to give you feedback and a review. I love that. One other pitfall before we wrap up is you want to avoid forgetting to celebrate their success. If something went well, have a celebratory tone, be their offboarding documentation, like your. Your emails or whatever. It's, you know, it takes a lot of time and effort and. And trust to go through a copywriting project. So, like, celebrate what they're getting out of it. Celebrate. Celebrate any new wins in their business. Let them know, like, if there's any ways to repurpose what they've done with you, maybe share that with them, and that could open up the door for other opportunities as well. Like, I worked for. Just in the last week, I worked for a really great client of mine. One of my favorites, actually.
(21:03):
I wrote an email sequence to promote a bundle that she created, and I wrote 80 meals in that bundle or in the sequence. And there was a social media post that I wrote for her as well. Right. So it's just one of those things that you can repurpose content and create additional work for yourself that way. So celebrating success is a very important step to offboarding, I think.
Erin Pennings (21:29):
100%, I agree.
Grace Fortune (21:31):
Yeah. So to wrap up, I heavily encourage anybody who's listening to this to consider how you're offboarding your clients and to just implement some of what we've shared with you today. Even if you just start small, just make one or two little changes to how you offboard your clients and just write down the process. Like how are you going to go about doing this for future clients? What makes sense for your business? What do you feel comfortable doing? And I would also love to hear your feedback on these tips that we've given you. What's one thing that you're going to implement and let us know how it works out. If you, if you have a lot of success from your off boarding after listening to this, we'd love to hear about it. And you can find us on the coffee table dot com.
(22:20):
You can find us all over social media. We would love to hear from you.
Erin Pennings (22:24):
Hear hear. Thank you for tuning in.
Grace Fortune (22:27):
Thanks so much.
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