Episode 32: Against All Odds: Parents' Battle Against Gender Ideology in Schools with Erin Lee

Join host Robert Wallace as he sits down with John and Erin Lee, parents from northern Colorado, who share their harrowing experience with gender ideology infiltrating their child's school. Hear their story of how their daughter was introduced to radical gender theories through an art class, leading to a shocking declaration of transgender identity and subsequent mental health struggles. Learn about the Lees' journey from initial shock to proactive advocacy, including their efforts to combat this ideology through founding organizations and pushing for legislative change. This episode sheds light on the urgent need for parental awareness and involvement in the fight against harmful educational practices.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to the Dark Side of the Rainbow. I am your host, Robert Wallace,
and today we have John and Erin Lee with us.
These are a couple of parents who have recently, well, in the not too distant
recent past, dealt with the gender ideology coming after their kids,
their daughter in particular in this case, and we're going to hear what happened.

(00:22):
How are you doing, John and Erin? Good, good. Thanks for having us.
Yeah, thanks for having us, Robert. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Thanks for being had.
So let's go back to this moment when you first learned that your child was being
introduced into the whole theory spectrum of ideology through an art class time ago.

(00:45):
Yeah. So I guess I could start on that. So it kind of hit us like a ton of bricks.
We were not sort of suspect of any of this happening. We had moved to a new
town here in in Northern Colorado.
And it was in the height of COVID. So our daughter was a little bit more vulnerable
and exposed than she's used to being at school. She didn't have any new friends made yet there.

(01:05):
So we thought everything was going good at her school.
But one day she came home, poked her head into my office with a transgender
flag, waving it and proclaiming her new transgender status.
And at that time, it was really the first mention of it really to either of
us and really the first inclination at all that she had given us that she had
these sort of gender confused ideas, really.

(01:27):
Yeah, it totally caught us off guard.
And so logically, we started looking into it like, wait a minute,
what happened at your art club today? This doesn't sound right.
So we reach out to a woman who had given her a business card,
not a teacher, an outside activist. We call the school.
When we start to get answers, we learned that it wasn't an art club.
It was gender and Sexuality Awareness Club, and they had invited in these radical

(01:51):
outside activists and taught the kids to lie to parents.
The number one rule was what you hear and hear, keep in here.
They talked to the kids about, you know, if you're not fully comfortable in
your biological sex, that means you're transgender.
And if you don't know who you're sexually attracted to, that means you're queer.
And they gave our daughter toys and swag, flags and stickers and bracelets that

(02:11):
went along with her new labels because what 12-year-old girl who's isolated by COVID in a new town.
And as a quirky, artistic, weird kid, is it uncomfortable in their 12 year old pubescent body?
So she adopted that label. She didn't know who she was sexually attracted to.
So she said, okay, I'm also queer. Um,
Now, they talked about polyamory, puberty blockers and how to access them,

(02:35):
how to see a mental health counselor in the state of Colorado without parent knowledge or consent.
They really doubled down on parents aren't safe. As our daughter left the room,
her art teacher even pulled her aside and said, remember, you don't have to
tell your parents about this.
So that was definitely the overall theme of the class.
And you could tell she was excited by this new trans status.

(02:55):
Yeah, everything that she was told that day too in that art club was something
that we mentioned to this outside activist that was brought in as alarming.
Who gives you the right or what credentials do you have to be having these conversations
with children in school?
And her response, like my wife said, was so joyful in everything she had done,

(03:16):
right? Of course I do these things.
This is what I do. I go into these schools and I do all these things.
And it's so wonderful, isn't it? And it was so the opposite of the reaction
that we thought we were going to get from her, right?
We thought maybe she would tiptoe around what she did and try to cover up or
do... No, she was so proud of everything. And she doubled and tripled down on everything.
And it was so alarming to see her response.

(03:39):
And one of the things I noticed on her website was her enrollment was up 500% since COVID.
And it was like, that was her badge of honor. Like, of course,
these kids are hurting and they're more vulnerable because of COVID-19.
So you're going to just declare that your enrollment just magically goes up
500%. No, it's because you're in the schools, the parents aren't aware,
and you're having unfettered access to them like you've never had before.

(04:02):
And now your enrollment just magically goes up 500%. Yeah. So that struck me.
Initially, that was one of the first things I read. I said, So what is this organization?
Let's go research it. And that was one of their taglines around the banner of
their page, 500%, which no one's enrollment goes up 500% overnight like that.
So it was really alarming.
Everything the woman said was just so predacious, I think, in our opinion. Yeah.

(04:27):
Wow. Yeah, that's really scary. You know, these trans activist types,
you talk about gaslighting, you know, you go up to them and you're saying,
hey, what are you teaching my kids?
And then they try to put on this facade of trans joy and I'm doing the right thing.
And I feel so great by that just shows you how disconnected they are from the

(04:49):
real dangers and the concerns that people would have around their behavior.
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
So she came home, she's got this trans flag, she's telling you about her trans
identities, et cetera, and some of the things that are being told to her within
this group. It's like Vegas in here.

(05:10):
What happens here stays here. And you're finding out they're giving her a mental
lobotomy with these ideas.
And so what was your first inclination? Was it to sit her down and get more
information? Was it to take these ideas out of her head or to go straight to the school?
Well, it's funny because the groomer who was in the classroom,
the Splash and Skittles lady, actually has defended her stance by saying,

(05:34):
well, it's the Vegas slogan.
How is it any different? What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.
I'm like, well, the difference is you're with my 11 and 12-year-old children behind closed doors.
But our initial reaction was very different as parents.
I, you know, was really of the mindset that this could be real,
that I have to be careful what I say to her, that if this is her real identity,

(05:55):
I don't want to alienate her or make her feel shame over it.
Whereas, you know, dad's response was vastly different.
I think they're very, they're very close. I mean, initially,
I didn't know how to react to any of it, right?
I was so blindsided by all of it. My initial reaction was, I'm going to let
my wife sort of shepherd this along and I'm going to take a backseat for now

(06:18):
until she sort of tries to uncover what's really going on.
And, you know, it's hard for me as a parent to, well, first of all,
to realize that this is going on in schools. I didn't know.
I had no idea that the transgender ideology was that thick in the classroom like that.
But come to find out, it wasn't really my fault that I wasn't prepared.

(06:39):
And I didn't know how to deal with this. Growing up, I didn't learn how to deal
with this. No one had ever taught me how to deal with this.
I have very little people in my life that identified this way.
And as we started to unearth and uncover what had happened, I was in the dark by design.
They didn't prepare me. They prepare us for everything that they do in school.
Hey, they're going to have a test on Friday.

(07:01):
Hey, they're going to have... We're going to watch this PG-13 movie next week.
You know, we're going to have sexual education in three weeks.
Here's what the curriculum looks like, right?
They work so hard to prepare us parents for some of these things that parents
should be prepared for, especially if they're going to bring it home and we
should be able to raise our children and have these conversations with them.
But by design, I was left in the dark. I was ill-prepared to handle it.

(07:23):
And I think that's just my first reaction is that's just the wrong approach, right?
If they would communicate to us better and prepare us as parents on how to handle
this, I think kids would be so much better prepared.
There'd be so much less like they're always saying, you know,
oh, you're going to make them commit suicide.
Well, hey, maybe if you prepared me to have these conversations.
There would be a lot less of that, right? Right. So I was very, very unprepared.

(07:45):
And like I said, I tried to take a back seat and let my wife sort of take the
wheel initially, just to try to figure out what was going on.
But we both, so our love, our shock was different. Our initial shock,
we reacted differently.
We're both shocked, but we knew it wasn't right for our daughter.
We knew there was no gender dysphoria prior to art club meeting.

(08:06):
We knew it had taken a hold of her very quickly.
And we agreed early on, we weren't going to affirm it. We weren't going to call
her Toby as she wanted to be called. We were not going to jump right to shaving her head.
We are not going to give her unfettered access to Discord to talk to all her
new trans friends because this activist had connected with my daughter on Discord
behind my back. I came to find out.

(08:28):
But we knew that wasn't right. We didn't take the approach of affirming.
And so instantly we were bullied by the school, by the psychiatrist that we
chose initially into, you know, do you want a dead daughter or a living son?
Basically, you need to go along with it.
You know, when you think about what they are doing with this approach,
these are aspects of the gender affirming care model.

(08:49):
When it comes to dealing with kids in a psychological condition,
it's kind of like giving like Xanax to everybody because some people might experience stress and.
Handling everybody with the gender affirming care model, whether or not they're
even having the problem is only spreading it, you know?
So they're inserting these ideas into your child's mind and then they're cultivating that.

(09:13):
And then, and then they make you the problem. At some point They say the parents can't be trusted.
What is that like for you to hear that your kids being taught that you're the
one not to be trusted and that the school is better prepared and able to take care of them than you?
Well, across the country, there's this fight for, you know, proving that parents

(09:35):
aren't all evil until proven innocent.
I mean, as we're speaking right now, they just passed and signed 1955 in California,
which essentially bars teachers from telling parents that.
That children are going through this. And it is the most violating thing that's ever happened to us.
I mean, our daughter was violated, but our rights as parents were violated.

(09:56):
We love and care for our daughter like no one else can.
The school is not the parent. And there's no one in that school that's equipped
to help our daughter through her mental distress better than we are as her parents.
They have no right to remove us from the equation.
And what we experienced as parents is that this trans identification made our daughter suicidal.

(10:16):
It was not our rejection and it wasn't even medicalizing. It was social transition.
It was trying to make a label fit that didn't fit.
And our daughter has even said that if we were not involved,
because it led to suicidal ideation for her, our daughter about six months after
art club, when she couldn't reconcile being trans, she tried so hard and we
didn't know how to help her through it. She left us a suicide note.

(10:38):
And she has said that if we weren't there to guide her through it,
if we had jumped right into affirmation or the school had been affirming her
for a long time before we found out, she doesn't think she'd be alive,
that she would have survived it.
So it's really dangerous to cut parents out.
Yeah. For me at first, I thought it was a scary thought, but knowing sort of
myself as a parent and knowing what rights I have as a parent,

(10:58):
or at least what I thought I had as a parent, I didn't really take it as serious
as I should have because I thought I have parental authority over my child.
But now that we've got this lawsuit in the works, we've We've had rulings from
judges that basically say, you have very minimal rights as a parent.
They're limited in black and white. This judge's ruling said they are limited

(11:18):
in scope and they end at the schoolhouse door.
So at first, it wasn't that scary to me. But now seeing a judge say that to us, it's terrifying.
I mean, it's absolutely terrifying. Trusted adults in your school have more
rights than you do as their parent over your child.
If that doesn't terrify you, then I don't know what does. Yeah.

(11:39):
One other element to the story is that two days after this incident,
because we didn't let her go back to school the next day, we couldn't make sense
of what had happened, but we knew she wasn't going back.
Whatever happened in that school, I don't want her exposed to those people again.
And so two days after we pulled her out after art club, they discussed calling
Child Protective Services for a well child check to potentially come remove

(12:02):
our children because we weren't affirming our daughter's confusion instantly.
And that's terrifying to think how close we came to having our children forcibly
removed because we didn't immediately play the game of affirming her. It's scary.
Yeah, it's criminal.
It is so many things. It makes you think, you know, when you're in school and

(12:23):
you feel kind of like, oh, I'm in a jail,
you know, I can't leave the classroom or I'm in, you know, and sometimes you
see these comparisons to how schools are built, to how prisons are built,
you know, there's a lot of similarities, but it's like the warden is over you, you know?
And when the kids are in school, all of a sudden the warden is over them again,
and it's not the parents.
And so what a betrayal that must feel like.

(12:47):
You voluntarily brought your child to the school. You signed them up.
You said, I'm going to trust you to educate them so many hours a day,
only to find out that they're turning around the whole narrative and the mind
of your child to say, your parents are the problem.
They won't understand this. We are the solution.
They are the enemy. Well, they had set us up as the villains, right?

(13:09):
They'd already vilified us as parents to our daughter before we had even had
a chance to know what was happening or have a conversation.
They had already teeter up that if your parents don't affirm you.
They don't support you. They don't love you. They're not your family.
We were branded as evil to our daughter by trusted adults before we even knew what was happening.
And I take such great issue with that term, trusted adults. Oh, it's terrifying.

(13:33):
Other people cannot self-identify as trusted to other people's children.
Yeah. Strangers to your family working in a school setting are automatically
trusted adults. Yeah. Whereas you're demonized and villainized as the parent.
I mean, really, our situation is like an ad for homeschooling.
The court decision, as he alluded to in our original case dismissal,

(13:53):
it's scary to think that they are superseding the rights of parents and doing
these things with our kids that are psychosocial medical transitions.
I mean, when you start to identify a child as trans, whether it's just changing
their pronouns, you have started them on the path of long-term physiological transition.
Most people that socially transition move on to medically transition.

(14:16):
And sometimes these kids are getting so far along in the path before parents
even know it's happened.
I mean, we had other families come forward here in our neighborhood that were
in that art club, all 12-year-old girls, all of them became confused with all the alphabet soup.
One little girl was pansexual, asexual, bisexual, trans. She tried everything.
And then she drank bleach and attempted suicide. And her parents had no idea

(14:40):
that she had been attending these club meetings because the school had been lying to them.
And so they blamed themselves for her suicide attempt.
Like, where did we go wrong? Why didn't we see the warning signs?
And then when we went public a year later, they went, oh, wow, and connected the dots.
And that's when families just started coming out of the woodworks.
Because it was one of the most horrifying things of all of this is the thousands

(15:01):
of families that I've connected with with a very similar story.
Our stories are so eerily similar.
11, 12, 13-year-old girls, the quirky kid, autistic, artistic,
and they just prey on our vulnerable little girls.
And it has near-death consequences for some of the kids that we've been connected with.
You know, I agree. This does kind of bring, like...

(15:24):
Like a commercial for homeschooling. And, you know, I don't have any kids.
If I had a kid, I would only consider homeschooling at this point because it's
like, man, you don't have much of a chance.
You know, they don't want you to even watch a Zoom that they're involved in.
So everything about the program for the kids is like baked in with this.
You have the psychiatrist giving them here, take Ritalin, give them this,

(15:47):
that, this and the other.
You know, they're injected with all kinds of, you know, things from the get
go, and it's creating all sorts of mental problems for kids.
And then you've got the indoctrination aspect.
So, you know, if your body isn't working against you now, we'll ensure that your mind is. Yeah.
Well, the indoctrination is thick, right? We, in hindsight, looked into curriculum

(16:09):
our daughter had been exposed to for years prior, and they're asking her her pronouns.
They're giving her a signed reading at 11 years old. That's a book all about
a transgender boy who reads porn and wears girls' underwear and wants to chop his body parts off.
And they had been planting seeds in our daughter's head for years.
She said it started in fifth grade when she went to her overnight week with

(16:30):
the school where she's away from family.
She's in bunks for five nights and the boys are sleeping in girls' rooms and
the girls are sleeping in boys' rooms and everyone's asking pronouns. And she's 10.
She had no idea what it meant at the time, but we now realize they had been
indoctrinating her for years before this art club incident that flipped the
trans switch for her. Scary.

(16:52):
Well, in this case, what kind of things have you learned regarding these efforts
against the kids as a parent looking back and with so many parents who are just
now in this position that you're in,
where they're just waking up to it or they're just having something happen to them?
What is the immediate action that looking back you would have taken?

(17:14):
A great question. I would have done a lot of things differently.
I mean, we tiptoed around the issue for about seven months.
We were just afraid to talk about it. We knew she was struggling mentally and
we didn't want to make it worse.
And so we just avoided talking about it. And so in hindsight,
I would have had very direct conversations early on about, you know,
my thoughts on gender ideology, on how it was pushed on her,

(17:38):
on how it's, there's no wrong way to be a girl. There's no wrong way to be a boy.
You know, You can be a girl who shaves her head and wear shorts,
but you're still a female and there's nothing wrong with that.
And you, at 12 years old, don't need to figure out who you're sexually attracted
to. You're 12. You're a very innocent 12. Like, no one needs to force you to label yourself.
So I wish I had taken a head-on approach.

(18:01):
But beyond that, I wish I'd never put her in a public school.
And I don't believe that public schools are safe wherever you live.
I've talked to families in rural Nebraska.
I've talked to families in the panhandle of Florida, Texas.
This is absolutely happening everywhere.
And so, like you said, if you had a kid, you wouldn't put him in public school.
I wouldn't do that. If I had a to-do over again, we would homeschool,

(18:22):
charter school, private school, choose an alternative for her,
but also the unfettered access to the internet.
And I think that's a very common theme with parents of kids who have rapid onset
gender dysphoria is that they, especially during COVID, our kids were playing video games.
They couldn't go out. That's all they had was connecting online.
And it's a very dangerous place for a 10, 11, 12 year old to be scouring the

(18:46):
Internet because they're bombarded with influencers like Jeffrey March,
who glamorize this ideology and confuse them and villainize parents.
So don't put them in public schools.
Don't give them unfettered access to the Internet and be blunt about the issue.
Don't be afraid to talk to your kids about it even before it happens. I love that.
Make them aware of what's coming at them because it's going to catch them from

(19:10):
left field if they hear it first in a classroom.
So you didn't just stand up against your school. You started an organization or two.
Can you tell us about these organizations and the work you've been doing?
Yeah. So I founded StopGenderIdeology.com.
I know it's a mouthful, but that was just made to be a resource for parents

(19:31):
like me because it was shocking when this happened.
I felt like I was alone on an island, like I was the only parent in the world
who this has happened to. like we had to suffer alone in silence and it's scary
to speak out and you don't know where to start, what to read,
who to call, whether to call the police, call a lawyer.
And so I wanted to make a resource for parents who've been faced with rapid

(19:51):
onset gender dysphoria to just have resources.
And that's StopGenderIdeology.com.
But I also got together with an amazing group of people and co-founded Protect Kids Colorado.
And so we are very much an organization dedicated...
We're a broad coalition of every side of the political spectrum,
parents, non-parents, religious people, atheists, who all fundamentally agree

(20:13):
that men are not women and that parents have a right to be involved in their
children's life, whether that's medical decisions,
mental health care, reviewing curriculum,
knowing about gender ideology.
And so right now our initiative is running two ballot initiatives in Colorado,
one for parents' right to be informed if their child's identifying as the opposite

(20:33):
sex and the other is just no biological males in single sex competitive female sports.
And they're very common sense issues.
And it's been so cool to see people from all over this, every spectrum coming
together behind this effort, because most people agree with us.
They're afraid to say it and they don't know where to start.

(20:54):
And so we wanted to create something tangible for Coloradans to all take a petition,
get some signatures or just sign it or just check the little bubble on your
ballot when it gets onto the ballot in November to feel like they can do something
and their voice can be heard in a way that's not scary like it has been for me speaking out.
That's amazing. Well, you've done such great work. And I know watching Rich

(21:15):
over there with you guys go all over the place.
I mean, he's definitely been putting in his time too. These are important initiatives.
And so when you're thinking about your state and you're doing what you can there,
which is amazing, because the first thing that people really need to do is get
local, do something where you're at.
If we're all looking at the national problem, we're all just going to be paralyzed

(21:37):
in the frozen like a deer caught in headlights.
There's nothing to do. But on the local level, you can make a change.
What kind of advice would you give to people located in other states as far
as a framework or some kind of pattern that they can follow to do something
similar to what you're doing?
A couple of things. I always tell people the first and foremost important thing

(21:58):
is just talk about it in your own sphere of influence.
This issue of gender ideology has become stigmatized and politicized, and it shouldn't be.
Again, most of us agree that it's nonsense and that our kids are under attack
by gender ideology, but we've got to start talking about it in our own sphere
of influence to destigmatize the conversation.

(22:20):
I encourage people to show up at their school board. You don't have to have
kids to address your school board. You pay their salary with your tax dollars.
You have just as much say as a parent does about how your money is being spent.
So show up and make your voice heard. Most school districts have local control
or your local city council.
Also show up at the state level. Rich, the GAG chapter leader here in Colorado,

(22:42):
and I spent a lot of time at the Denver Capitol this year just fighting bad
legislation and supporting the good legislators that are doing the right thing
to protect kids in many different ways.
So it's important that you show up and you you support them,
and you fight back against the bad legislation.
Because we've experienced bad legislation that we didn't know had been passed.

(23:02):
Like our daughter, 12-year-olds are the steward of their own mental health care in Colorado.
And conversion therapy is illegal with explicit language that you can't question
a gender-confused youth.
And we were affected by these laws that we weren't paying attention to.
So people have got to pay attention to their local and state laws,
fight back when they're bad, support the people who pass good ones.

(23:23):
There's There's a lot of power in just showing up to make your voice heard.
And just exposing what you see.
Just exposing it as much as you can. Like Erin did so well, get as loud as you can.
And if you see something that doesn't seem right, just expose it.
And it's as simple as posting it on social media just to get the word out.
And that usually drives enough attention to it to get to the root of where it's

(23:45):
coming from and why. lie.
Stop being afraid. There's nothing to be afraid of.
I lost my career over this. And in hindsight, it was a good thing.
It was a blessing that now I can dedicate my time to standing up for kids in my state.
So I'm living proof that the boogeyman is not going to come out and get you.
If you speak up against gender ideology, you'll find that you have a lot more

(24:06):
supporters than you have people who disagree with you. I'm sure you've experienced that.
I know Rich has. He already He's had a lot of people who, you know,
it was disappointing that they condemned him, but he had 10 for every one person who condemned him.
He had 10 who supported him in doing the right thing. Courage is contagious.
And you'll find that if you just have the courage to speak up.
Absolutely. You know, if we don't make a change where we're at as individuals,

(24:31):
like you said, within our communities or disciplines or wherever we're at,
then this thing's going to, it's going to bowl us over.
And so if we get all of the states, if we get people activated in all of our
towns and states, this is not going to be allowed to flourish.
But it's flourishing because of something called tacit agreement.

(24:51):
This is where we don't say anything
and it's taken for a type of passive agreement for what's happening.
And so that's one thing Gaze Against Rumors is about, is standing up saying,
hey, we're not giving you our tacit agreement. And that's one thing,
John, that I think it's great about seeing you stand up.
It's because as we started with, we're not seeing enough dads standing up, unfortunately.

(25:16):
And so, you know, you're one of the few.
And those are the powerful voices like, yeah, it's great for gays to call it
out from within the community.
It's wonderful for mothers, for parents at any rate to get involved.
But when you have the forceful power of a father and the fathers behind it,

(25:36):
too, like that is the real spinal cord of the traditional family hierarchy of of a strong society.
So thanks for that. And I think to touch on that a little bit,
you know, there are a lot of fathers that I've talked to and there's any number
of reasons why they haven't gotten involved.
Right. They work. They're too busy. You know, that's the woman's role in the

(25:57):
home to take care of the kids.
And the list goes on and on and on. But I think we've seen gender roles swapping
for a very long time in this country, right?
Men and women are both forced to go to work. So I think men in this country
are getting, for lack of a better term, getting softer and softer.
And we're seeing those gender roles reverse.
And a lot of them don't have the courage. You know, they don't have the courage
to stand up. And some of them have legitimate reasons for it.

(26:18):
Hey, I don't want to get fired from my job. You know, I don't want to.
Put myself out there like this. What it comes down to is just having the courage
and standing up for what's right. At the end of the day, none of that stuff matters.
Our kids matter. You can find a new job. You can find a new friend group.
You can replace all of that stuff. Our kids are irreplaceable.
And you need to just find the courage to dig deep and just stand up,

(26:40):
stand up for what's right and get loud.
My wife has done a great job of that. I try my best.
I'm not as good a speaker as she is publicly, but I've tried to stand up and
do my part. But again, Again, I agree with you.
There's not enough men in this fight, but the women are doing a great job.
But they definitely need strong, courageous men to come by their side and give

(27:00):
them the support that they need, not only in the background,
but on the forefront of this fight. So doing what we can. Excellent.
What other organizations would you guys recommend or do you want to point some
attention towards who are doing similar things like what you're doing?
I mean, we're immensely grateful for Gays Against Groomers. When that came on

(27:20):
the scene, it was like, thank God.
I've been over here being called a bigot for at least a year now.
It's about time that people can see I'm actually prior pretty left-leaning,
very LGB friendly advocate.
So I'm grateful that Gays Against Gremlins has come on the scene.
We're kind of equally being erased.
I've talked to Rich about this. Gay men are being erased by gender ideology.

(27:43):
Women are being erased by gender ideology. The traditional family structure
of a father in the home, that's being erased by gender ideology.
And so we're all equally in it together. Willful ignorance has got to stop.
You talked about tacit consent.
I call it willful ignorance. So many people who just don't want to pay attention

(28:04):
because it's inconvenient to know exactly what's going on.
But some organizations that I beyond gag, Our Duty, Erin Friday's group,
Parents with Inconvenient Truths About Trans or PIT, that's a great one.
Partners for Ethical Care, which is run by Jeanette Cooper out of Chicago,
who lost custody of her daughter, I think four years ago now.

(28:25):
Now she hasn't seen or talked to her daughter because she refused to affirm.
And she is just this badass mom who has built a coalition for all parents like
us to come together and have support.
They're a great one. FAIR, Foundation Against Intolerance and Racism,
especially FAIR in Medicine, has really jumped into the game.
Here in Colorado, we have the Colorado Parent Advocacy Network or CPAN.

(28:49):
That is a great resource for parents when they're facing any issue in their public school,
whether it's the CRT issue or an abusive teacher or the secret hotline where
10-year-olds are texting mental health counselors behind parents' backs.
They've been a really heavy hitter in exposing things as they come out.
And then the other one is Grandparents for Kids.

(29:11):
It's kind of a new on-the-scene organization. They've partnered with us at Protect Kids Colorado.
They're one of of the four orgs that joined our coalition and their grandparents
who her motto is get off the golf course and get to the school board. Like you've got time.
These parents are raising their kids. They don't have time to show up to every
school board meeting, but you grandma and grandpa have the time and you care

(29:32):
about these kids just as much as the parents do. So it's a wonderful organization.
She's trying to start chapters all over the country. It's grandparents, the number four kids.
Excellent. Thanks for sharing all those. So from your guys's perspective,
in order to be done with this mission, we're, yeah, I know.
And it's a tall order because we've got a tacking come from every which way,

(29:54):
like, oh, you're the drag queen story hour.
And here's the puberty blocker. And here's the pronoun thing.
And here's a, what, what does a sound education even look like anymore?
You know, we've got the whole, Hey, here's sex education, But then let's dump
all this gay trans stuff in there, which, you know, sometimes we have to clarify
just because we say no to gay porn doesn't mean we're for any kind of porn in a school.

(30:18):
You know, people figure out how to do things without having these cartoon,
you know, guidance, guidances, you know, bring their head and shoulders above their peers.
You know, is there any appropriate line to handle that anymore?
That's not getting into sexualizing kids. It's a hard one because I think the
public education system is really broken from the top down.

(30:40):
And I get a lot of heat like you're anti-teacher, you're a not.
And I recognize that 80% of kids are still in the public education system.
We've got to fight for those kids.
But it's going to take a deep, deep rooting from the top down,
abolishing the Department of Education, fighting back against the National Teachers Unions.
They're pushing this and the higher ed system.

(31:01):
I mean, teachers are coming out thinking that the kind, compassionate thing
to do is lie to parents when kids are gender confused.
They think they're doing the right thing. I don't think they're bad people.
But it's a deep-rooted issue that starts in the university system that stems
from the top down. and we didn't get here overnight and we're not going to fix it overnight.
I believe it will take decades and a lot more people being hurt by gender ideology

(31:24):
before we eradicate it from the public school system.
But I don't think schools are safe until gender ideology as we know it is eradicated.
As I said, it is not involving children.
Yeah, and getting organizations like Planned Parenthood out of the schools, right? Yeah.
Their number one, right? Their number one profit center now is puberty blockers.
So where do they belong in our schools, right? Right.

(31:45):
Like there's so many things that need to change. Like Aaron said,
it's a huge it's a huge laundry list.
But I think I think we can do it. There's definitely a silent majority.
Like most parents don't agree with it. They just don't understand it.
And so we've got to do a better job educating people. And that's my mission,
first and foremost, is to educate.
This is what's happening in our schools. You need to know so you can protect your kids.

(32:08):
Well, you know, you're really right on with like Planned Parenthood, I'll tell you.
They put up billboards telling you, oh, go have promiscuous sex and do whatever, whenever.
And then the next billboard is, we'll help you get an abortion right here.
Right. And then the next one is, we'll help you chop up your parts while we're at it.
I mean, they really are, you know, starting the fire, creating the problem,

(32:31):
you know, Planned Parenthood, and then trying to really reap the benefits out
of harvesting the kids after they've sexualized them. So that is a really bad.
Well, they kind of own the market too. They're at my legislative body in Colorado
lobbying for bills that serve them.
And so I talked about this in our film. It's like a conveyor belt and there's all these moving parts.

(32:55):
There's the school system and the social services system and the legislature
and Planned Parenthood, and they're all working together to make a profit on our children.
That's the bottom line, is that social transition leads to medical transition.
And the motive for all of these evil parties who are preying on our kids is
to make money on butchering their bodies.

(33:15):
That's the end goal. And our daughter got really close to getting on that conveyor
belt, and we're really lucky that we plucked her off before it went that far.
You know, right up to the United Nations level and the World Economic Forum
level, we have these advocates who are globally pushing for this gender affirming
care approach to all the children of the world.
It's all part of the one world government, new world order, build back better, great reset plot.

(33:41):
And I think it's important to remember that because sometimes we're just like,
oh, we're fighting it off from every which direction, but it's all coming from one direction.
Top down, these activist teachers and these other students who are working it
out as a social contagion and spreading to other kids.
They are the effect of what's coming down and

(34:03):
you know they become their own cause but in reality
it's the policies top down whether it's you
know dei whether it's like you're
talking about the gsa the methods that they use and for people who are listening
who aren't familiar with these terms they're all basically like critical race
theory social emotional learning sel that's used in schools in order to create

(34:26):
the new narrative that hey you know life isn't isn't fair for everybody so,
what are you thinking sorry i think that that from the top down approach they're
they're smart enough to know that they need to destroy the family unit and they
need to pervert morals and values in order to you know get to that end end goal
so i think you're you're very right in your,

(34:47):
analysis yes it's a globalist agenda but don't let that deter anyone from knowing
that we the people are more powerful than the global agenda.
And I'll give an example. There was a movement in Peru and it was just hashtag
don't mess with our kids.
And there, I can't say it beautifully in Spanish. I would try,
but hashtag don't mess with our kids where they came together as people and they took to the street.

(35:09):
Gender ideology was the final straw where people were going to jail for misgendering,
where if you called a man, a woman, you would go to jail for it.
And the people took to the streets. They focused on the kids.
They took the colors of trans flag blue and pink and made them their own that's
their the flag colors that they used.
And they successfully eradicated gender ideology from their government.

(35:30):
George Soros pulled his money out. The country has now defined transgenderism
as a mental illness that should be treated as such.
And they made incredible transformation in that country.
Now, Peru is a much smaller country than the U.S. But just to give people hope,
like we the people can take power back and kick out the global powers if we

(35:50):
come together on this issue.
Absolutely. And that brings us right back to the whole do something local because
they might be in a position where they're spreading this all over the world
simultaneously with one wave of the pen.
And yes, that does mean we got to do 10 times the work because we all got to
fight it off in all of our little sectors on the world. But it's possible.
And giving up is not an option first. So when it comes to children transitioning.

(36:17):
At Gays Against Groomers, we say, okay, once you're an adult,
if the dysphoria, if the dysmorphia is too much for you, you're an adult,
you can go make your own decisions.
But no child is born in the wrong body. And right now, it's very homophobic
to say that because somehow liking somebody of the same gender is the same thing
as thinking you're in the wrong body.

(36:37):
How do you see the manipulation of the so-called civil rights of the LGB being
hijacked by this TQIA plus alphabet mafia?
Yeah, well, I see gender ideology as conversion therapy of little gay boys and lesbian girls.
Like, you're not the other sex because you like pink or play with Barbies or

(36:59):
want to wear dresses like it is.
It's completely a hijacking of the LGB movement.
Marriage rights is something completely different than teaching kids to identify as the opposite sex.
It's frustrating when the two are conflated. When I get called,

(37:20):
you're anti-LGBTQ. like, no, I have an issue with TQ.
I'm not anti-LGB. In fact, I'm fighting for them because I believe that when
you tell a child they're born in the wrong body, it's conversion therapy of
what is likely a gay or lesbian kid.
So I hate that the two are conflated. I believe they're two very,
very different things. One is accepting who you are, who you're attracted to.

(37:41):
The other is rejecting who you are. They're complete opposites when you look at them that way.
And it's sad to see that they piggyback on the hard work of the LGB community
for what was actually very necessary equal rights.
And they've now run in the other direction with it. And they're erasing gay people in the process.
You know, it's very disturbing the method by which these activists are logically

(38:06):
trying to conform society to their problem.
They say, well, if you don't affirm me, then I can't be happy how I am.
That is, I'm a boy. I think I'm a girl.
Everybody in the world needs to affirm that. And then on the other hand,
we have the taboo subject of, well, child, well, you gender dysphoric individual.

(38:28):
If you alone could accept yourself, the whole world would not have to adjust around you.
And so do we ask one person to adjust and actually accept what's there?
Or do we ask the entire world to adjust and accept a specter and a,
you know, we say an imagination, but a mental condition that we can't even see

(38:51):
about you in order to integrate you.
It's a very selfish sort of approach.
Very upside down way of thinking. And I have.
Our personal story has given me a very unique perspective on affirming someone's
perceived gender, affirming someone in their gender confusion,
because doing that for our daughter could have cost her her life.
You know, her trying to make trans fit is what made her suicidal.

(39:15):
So we're pushed this suicide myth that if you don't affirm it,
they will kill themselves.
And that's always what we're bullied with. Our arm is twisted.
You must affirm or they'll kill themselves.
And we know the opposite to be true in our personal experience,
that affirming it would have harmed her further and helping her be comfortable
in her biological sex is what helped her mentally.
And so I've really struggled with this suicide myth and which forcing people

(39:38):
into going along with it, knowing that we're harming the person that we're lying
to. Yeah. It's heartbreaking.
You know, when you look back and, you know, I think about some of the things
I've said to my mother, for instance, you know, and you look back and you're
just like, what that does to their heart, you know, and you don't realize that
when you're young and you're fighting,
just how much you're tearing your parents up when you say things like,

(40:00):
I'm going to kill myself if you don't let me transition, or you hate me and
I hate you, and all of this sort of talk,
which is easy to say, but you can't even account for the effect that it has
on you and on your family.
Well, I tell parents always, be the lighthouse, be the off-ramp,
be the beacon of truth that your child needs you to be, because the whole world's

(40:21):
going to tell them, yes, you're trans, I'll call you whatever you want,
I'm going to go along with it.
But they're looking to you to be their beacon of truth.
And when we gave our daughter the off-ramp is when she was relieved.
It was like, no, I don't want to do this anymore.
It was like, thank God you gave me this off-ramp. I've been waiting for you
to just tell me the truth.
And so no matter what, we as parents, that's why it's so hard to think of parents

(40:42):
being cut out of the equation.
Because they're going to speak
the truth to their children that they know their child needs to hear.
And we as parents can't be bullied by the world into going along with it and
bullied by the suicide myth and bullied by our employer that says you have to
call this person whatever they want to be called.
We have to remain truthful to people. And I'm a Christian, so speak truth and love.

(41:03):
We love everyone, but we love them enough to tell them the truth.
And that's what our daughter needed. And I believe that's what a lot of people
are craving. believing it's just someone to be that source of truth for them,
even if they don't want to hear it right now.
Yeah. And even when the kids in school do find that truth, it's hard to see
the bullying that goes on as well.

(41:23):
We've had kids come up to us who have said, hey, I want to transition back.
I want to transition back to my biological sex. But I'm afraid to because they're
afraid of rejection and they're afraid of being bullied to be who they should
have been all along. So it's really, really sad to see how much bullying is going on in both.
I mean, really in both directions, bullying them into being transgender and

(41:45):
then bullying them back to being being who they were originally.
And then they get they get rejected, you know, in the end by the fighter by their community.
So it's it's really sad to see to see this happening. It's cool. It really is. Yeah.
You know, she, Erin just said something interesting, you know,
you know, being Christians, being whatever faith or whatever philosophy a person might be.

(42:07):
If you don't have a faith, you know, if you don't have a religion or a philosophy
or something like that, that is important to you, the school will provide your
child with one. Yeah, of course.
And you might consider yourself a religious atheist agnostic.
You may think that it has no place in school. You may think that,
you know, all of that is an optional thing.

(42:29):
But the fact is that without some sort of moral foundation, your child goes
to school and is subject to the religion of this cultural Marxism.
Yeah, sure. Religion of the state. Yeah, without a doubt.
And so they're not going to know that there's anything other than human bodies
and their gender identities and this group versus that group.

(42:51):
There's nothing higher to them. And so that is something also to think about.
Yeah. I like to tell parents, what are you willing to sacrifice?
You know, it's a sacrifice not to put your kids in public schools.
I have three kids in three different schools, in a charter, a private and homeschool.
And it's a sacrifice. But are you willing to sacrifice for your kids?
Or are you willing to sacrifice your kids on the altar of gender ideology?

(43:13):
Because if you send them to public school, even if you don't see it, it's happening.
Pronoun conversation is happening. Flags are on the walls.
Kids are talking about it to each other. It's just inevitable.
And so I circle back to, I don't think it's safe to put your kid in a public
school right now in this time where we live until we come together and fix it.
Yeah. Especially when the school nurses Nurses and the mental,

(43:36):
especially like the mental health profession has been hijacked by this as well, right?
So a lot of the mental health pamphlets that we see, you know,
it sounds so good on the surface.
Like, of course, you know, these kids, you know, coming out of COVID when we
experienced this, you know, these kids need to talk to someone, right?
These counselors need to talk to someone. And then you realize that just about
every counselor, every counseling office, every mental health professional has

(43:59):
been hijacked by this ideology as well.
So it's coming at us from every angle. It's not just a school. it's it's
it's these professionals we found that out the hard way um when we went we at
first we didn't know what to do so we went and we found no mental health counselor
for our daughter the first one was trans affirming and queer and way in queer
trans affirming she said well this is great you know you guys leave the room

(44:19):
i'll have a conversation with your daughter and we said nope
we're gonna find another mental health counselor and the next one had the same
issue next one had the same issue and the next one the next one we and then
we eventually settled on a faith-based counselor.
And all she did was sort of dance around the issue because she knew that legally she had to affirm.
So she didn't really touch it. And that just kind of prolonged it and made it
worse and made our daughter not feel well about any of the sessions that she went to.

(44:42):
So it's hard to find help, especially if you put them in public school.
Like I said earlier, as soon as they enter those doors, your rights as a parent
are out the window. Limited.
Yeah. Well, I think that's unfortunately one of the worst problems that we have
to deal with is that the teachers themselves have become activists if they're

(45:03):
not already trans-identifying queer cultists themselves,
and they're bringing it in and seeking some sort of validation by the school.
Students, you know, you see these videos on Lips of Tech Talk or whatever,
like, oh, my students finally call me a Zimzer today. I'm so happy.
And it's like, oh, my gosh. It's like you need to be in therapy,

(45:25):
not running a classroom of kids because you've just given them your condition,
the contagion, the social contagion that is this idea.
And also who the heck hired you and put you there? Like, I'm concerned for everyone at that school.
I mean, do you remember being in public school and knowing what you're what
you're who you're like, who your teacher was attracted to? too?
Teachers wouldn't even think when we were growing up to do that.

(45:47):
You didn't know what car your teacher drove, right? You had no idea.
They were there to teach you, right? They cared about you, but they weren't
there to push their social and cultural ideals on you, right?
It's just so sick. You're right. They've just been activated.
There's so many activist teachers that, like my wife said earlier,
a lot of them are just willful idiots, I think.

(46:08):
They're just pushing their agenda and they think they're being virtuous and
they're doing the right thing and they're teaching these kids to be socially concerned.
It's just the wrong thing to do for kids of that age. And the good teachers are scared.
I've talked to a lot of teachers who are like, Aaron, I can't say anything.
I can't speak up. I'm afraid to lose my job.
And we've started reading their testimonies at school board meetings anonymously

(46:31):
to try to help give them a voice.
Like there are sane teachers in the system and this is how they feel and they're
afraid to even use their name right now.
So that's another thing parents can do is support those good teachers.
They're still left. They're just afraid to say something.
Absolutely. You know what you were just saying, John?
It just reminded me, you know, back when I was in school, I kind of thought
the teachers and everybody ceased to exist, you know, when I left the building.

(46:55):
It's like one of these, you know, non-controllable players with NCPs,
NPCs, you know, they call them.
It's like, I remember one time I was in the car with my mom and I saw my vice
principal walk into a bar while we were driving. And I was like, is that Mr.
Schneider is going to a bar?
I mean, it really messed my brain up to know that they have a life outside of

(47:17):
school and they might be adults and they might be doing regular things.
And to go from that to, and I also had some teachers who maybe were a little
bit, you know, TMI with their personal stuff or a couple of teachers are dating.
So everybody's, you know, privy to it, but, you know, coming in and giving me
your Caesar are full of crap at the top of the thing.

(47:39):
And I'm supposed to like start adapting to it. That is too much. Yeah.
And beyond the teachers, FYI, the outside parties that come into schools are
10 times more concerning.
Like I like to say with sexual offenders, you know, the red dots and where they
live in your neighborhood.
It's the ones who don't have a red dot that I'm more worried about who we who
aren't out in the open with what they're doing. And so like art club for our

(48:03):
daughter, they invited in a self-proclaimed genderqueer shape-shifting blood witch.
It was like this 22-year-old little girl who her pronouns were goat, goat self.
And this is who they connected my daughter with on Discord privately.
And she trains teachers.
She's got a course called How to Be a Trusted Adult to LGBTQ.
And it's like 13 slides of how to medicalize gender confused kids.

(48:23):
You must respect their pronouns.
You must get them chest binders. Kids who have puberty blockers are less likely to kill themselves.
Tell the kids about your sexuality. Ask the kids about their sexuality.
It says something like affirm, take them out for ice cream to celebrate that they came out to you.
Like it is the most disgusting, vile training put on by a genderqueer shape-shifting blood witch.

(48:44):
And again, everyone in school administration sees nothing wrong with it.
So everyone's the problem here. But it wasn't something I thought to look into.
Like I know the problem teachers, but I don't know about these outside organizations
coming in to train teachers, to meet with students, to meet with students outside
of school and make them comfortable coming to Saturday meetings.
It really opened my eyes to who has unfettered access to our kids without our knowledge.

(49:10):
Yeah, and to that point, like 12-year-olds in the state of Colorado,
the shepherd of their mental health, right?
So one of the biggest resources here from an outside perspective is iMatter.
And then you go on this iMatter resource and you look at some of these counselors
that are listed, the top 10, the top bullet points, every single counselor,
Sex work positive, gender affirming.
How is this reality?

(49:31):
What adults that work in a school that promote this program,
and it's everywhere. They're handing out pamphlets on the back of their ID cards.
I mean, it's everywhere.
If they were to just take 10 minutes and read the list of counselors,
they're top of the list for these kids.
Who wants their kid going to a sex work positive school?
Counselor, right? They're in sixth, seventh grade. I know I don't,

(49:51):
right? If they're adults, have at it. Have fun.
These are kids, you know, top 20 on the list, sex work positive, gender affirming.
To clarify, I Matter is a state program in the state of Colorado.
It is a child mental health counseling program run by the state.
And so our school districts survey our kids on their mental health,
deem most of them high risk, and then refer them to this I Matter program without

(50:14):
parent knowledge or consent because they'd already passed a law making 12-year-olds
in charge of their mental health care.
So now they mandate mental health surveying for all sixth through 12th graders
and refer them to this state program.
Parents don't even know what's happening, but the counselors are all gender affirming.
And the surveys are tailored to the result, right? They know the result they need.

(50:34):
They write the survey to match the result and then they distribute it.
I mean, it asks, some of these surveys ask kids what their pronouns are like
12 times. And then they ask questions like, are you sure?
Right there, I mean, it's just so probing and just so misleading.
And it's so blatant and brazen on their part.
They know what they're doing, but they do it under the guise of social justice.

(50:57):
And yeah, inclusivity. Look how virtuous we are.
And anyone with a brain that's not a pedophile, if I can say that on this show,
it's just sick to see how they can read this stuff and be okay with it,
right? How could you give this to a kid?
It's beyond me. It really is a mental illness. And the fact that it's so widespread spread.
And there's so many people that are seemingly intelligent that are still pushing these surveys.

(51:20):
It's almost like we're living in an alternate reality.
I mean, I really have no words for how people can agree with what some of the stuff is that's on here.
Well, I haven't been all the way through A Brave New World, just enough to know
that there's a very sexually liberated future ahead of us.
And this is very reminiscent of that story that

(51:41):
Because in some of these surveys, yeah, like, how many sex partners have you
had? Five? Only five? Are you sure? Yeah.
10 or 12? Okay, okay. We'll work on that. Okay, are you a boy or a girl this morning?
Okay. Are you still a boy? Uh-oh, somebody's not taking their cure pills.
You know, you really had me thinking, though, too, about this advisor to these

(52:02):
teachers, this blood witch.
You know the only thing that would have really made that
blood witch more horrifying was if she'd been straight white
woman christian anything like that that'd been horrifying
wasn't it that's i think that's what the war is ultimately
about and we can see all that in an
image the image of the progress flag because you
know you got the gay stripes and then now you have these chevrons these

(52:24):
arrows coming in from the side and you got okay here's
the trans then here's the black and brown ones now they're
bringing in race into the issue it's not enough that
you're you know attract each other now you're getting the wrong body now
this is like a race on race issue and it's
basically come down to everybody against the
straight white male or female yeah and particularly a christian or and you know

(52:49):
it's become very irreligious it's like you know it's this is hedonism and this
is the religion and anything that stands against that which is Every religion
becomes the enemy all of a sudden. Gender ideology is a religion.
I think that's right. Because faith usually breeds people that have pretty good
morals and pretty good values.

(53:09):
And they stand up for what is right. And that drives freedom and liberty.
And they want to do away with all of that.
And they're doing a pretty darn good job of it, aren't they?
And the kids are the obvious way to go about it. They're malleable.
They're vulnerable. If you can confuse a child about fundamentally who they
are as male or female, which is not changeable, then you can convince them to do anything.

(53:31):
They're creating these little confused, woke soldiers who will go along with
whatever they're told to do.
And it's crazy that our daughter fell into it. she was the last person I could
have ever thought would be captured.
She was very intelligent and very empathetic. And I think they pandered to her empathy.
I just never thought she was someone who could be so easily confused.

(53:52):
And that goes to show that 10, 11, 12 year old little girls are incredibly vulnerable
and they will do just about anything to feel comfortable in their body and fit
in. And they're taking advantage of that.
Absolutely. They are. You know, while we have I have an upcoming film,
which I think touches a lot into this, called Beneath Sheep's Clothing.
That comes out July 26, so you can go to BeneathSheep'sClothing.movie,

(54:14):
and I made a cameo in that. It's got James Lindsay and many others.
We're talking about the commonalities between Marxism moving into the USSR and
with what's happening today with Marxism moving into America.
And particularly how it's affecting kids. Yeah.
And turning them into these little Maoist soldiers in the process.
Just want to go fight and protest everything.

(54:35):
I recommend people check that out. But we've only got a couple minutes left.
So would you go ahead and just share it in social media where people can find
you and your organizational websites?
Yeah. So I go by Erin for parental rights. Erin for parents on Twitter on every platform.
And I just really seek to elevate the voices of families like ours because it's

(54:57):
such a pervasive issue. There's so many of us that when someone speaks up,
I want to elevate their voice and this issue in general.
But we also made a movie about what happened to our family. It's at artclubmovie.com.
And it's on YouTube and Rumble. It's free. We'll never put it behind a paywall.
It's a full-length feature, so it's 75 minutes. But it really is the personal

(55:18):
story of one normal family.
And we tie in psychologists and the president of American College of Pediatricians
and Alliance It's defending freedom and other families who've been through this
to really paint the picture of how the heck did we get here and where are we going as a society?
What can we do about it? So that's artclubmovie.com.
And then, you know, my part right now is in Protect Kids Colorado.

(55:42):
It's in passing law here where the infection has spread because what happens
in California doesn't stay there. It moves east.
It gets to Colorado. And I feel like we're here where the infection is here
and we have this chance to stop it from spreading to the rest of the country,
these egregious laws that are attacking women and parents' rights.
And so I encourage anyone across the country to support Protect Kids Colorado

(56:05):
and Protect Kids California.
Erin Friday's effort, because we're really setting the bar and creating the
precedent for what people can do in other states to fight back against bad law
and pass good citizens law.
So that's just ProtectKidsColorado.org.

(56:37):
If it passes the litmus test here in Colorado, then it will be spread like wildfire. Yep. Absolutely.
Thank you guys so much for all the work that you're doing. I mean,
a couple of parents like you is worth like 50,000 parents, you know,
who aren't doing anything, who can't do anything, who don't know where to start.
You know, you're moving so much forward for so many people just by,

(56:59):
you know, getting behind this initiative and working hard to crank these things
out. So I think everybody applauds you for your efforts and I do.
And so does Gaze Against Groomers. So thank you so much for joining us.
Hopefully we can have one or both of you guys back on.
I really appreciated both of your time and your contributions to the conversation.
And for our listeners, please, if you're not already following us,

(57:21):
go to Twitter or X rather and search Gaze Against Groomers.
Follow us, like and follow us on Instagram and go to gazeagainstgroomers.com
to learn more, join the chapter, donate.
And if you have any questions, comments, or want to suggest a guest,
you can go to podcast or other email podcast at gaysagainstgroomers.com.

(57:42):
So until next week, this is Robert Wallace. Have a great week.