July 1, 2025 • 23 mins
In the market for a new read? Good, that's what librarians are here for! On this new episode, Nicole, Amanda, Drew, and Killian discuss the art of the reference interview, some of our favorite and most challenging questions to be asked about book recommendations on desk, and helpful websites and resources for anything to use in finding your next great read.
The Distracted Librarians can be found on Podbean, Apple Podcasts, YouTube Music, Spotify, Amazon Music, iHeartRadio, and PlayerFM.
Want to join the conversation? Email us at distracted@btpl.org
Many thanks to BCTV for their support in recording, editing, and releasing this podcast; and to the Friends of the Library for sponsoring closed captioning on every episode.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
- [Nicole] Hey there.
Welcome to the DistractedLibrarians podcast.
We are your friendly neighborhoodbookworms with a penchant
for all things pop culture.
- [Drew] Picture thisas our digital campfire
where we dive into our latest obsessions,
analyze our favorite distractions,
and rediscover the joy of reading.
- [Killian] Whether you're amedia enthusiast, a book lover,
(00:21):
or just need a break from the daily grind,
you've come to the right spot.
- [Amanda] So kick back, relax,
and get delightfully distracted with us.
- [Nicole] Hey everybody.
On today's episode of theDistracted Librarians,
we are going to talkabout Readers Advisory,
mostly like, "How To" Readers Advisory.
(00:42):
So I'm gonna give youguys a definition, just
because this feels verymuch like librarian speak
and not something thatpeople just talk about
in general life.
- [Killian] Yeah, for sure.
- [Nicole] Readers Advisory.
All right, it is defined as,
a successful ReadersAdvisory service is one
in which knowledgeable,nonjudgmental staff help
(01:05):
fiction readers with their reading needs.
This is from Saricks and Brown,
"Readers Advisory Servicein the Public Library."
I don't agree with thefiction thing, necessarily.
- [Drew] It's interestingthey specified that.
- [Nicole] Yeah, because Ifeel like when people come
into the youth room at the library,
we are helping them find alldifferent types of books,
(01:26):
not necessarily just fiction.
- [Killian] And honestly,not even just books.
- [Nicole] Right, yeah.
All right, so,
how do we do Readers Advisory for people?
I mean, I'm sure we eachhave our own technique
or way that we do, what tools we use.
- [Drew] Yeah.
(01:46):
- [Amanda] I think one of thethings that I start with is
just suggesting I can tell you like,
I can recommend a book for you.
I think most people don't realize that
that's something we do.
People feel bad asking for it.
They're like, oh, I don'tknow what I wanna read.
And I'm like, that's okay.
That's why I'm here.
(02:07):
- [Nicole] Yeah, yeah.
- [Amanda] So, even justsort of really offering it
and letting people knowthat that's something
that we do, it's part of our job.
- [Nicole] Sure, absolutely.
Yeah, I mean I think that like,
the reference interview,
which is, I think whatyou guys probably call it
in adult services,
I don't think we actually referto as that at all in youth,
(02:30):
but just having aconversation with the person.
In some cases, it's theparent of the child.
And in some cases it's theactual child that's coming up
and saying, "Hey, I needa book. Can you help me?"
Sometimes it's very specific,
so we have to really kindof look a little bit deeper.
And sometimes it's just like,
(02:51):
"Hey, I need a book that I would like."
And those, I think are the most fun
because then I can just say,
"Well, what have you readbefore that really you liked?"
So we can do kind of aread alike situation.
- [Drew] The parentthing is the part of it
that I would be so unfamiliar with
if I was sat at your desk.
Because most referenceinterviews that I'll start,
do start with that.
(03:12):
Like, what's the last book youread that you really liked?
I don't know how I would handle
that if it was a parentasking for the child.
- [Killian] So it's always interesting
because personally forme, if the kid is there,
I'm going to talk to the kid.
- [Drew] Yeah.
- [Killian] Even if the parent comes up
and you know, "Oh, she needssomething to read for school,
"she's got a book report,
(03:32):
"we're looking forsomething she's gonna like."
I'm gonna turn to the childand ask them what they like
because they are going tobetter understand what they like
and why they like it.
Sometimes we don't have that
'cause the parent'scoming in without the kid.
I will generally go with if weknow something that they've,
that they have really enjoyed.
(03:53):
But I will also ask about like things
that they are interestedin outside of books.
If you know a kid'sreally into video games,
there's a lot of books thatkind of involve video games
that are going to beprobably an easier sell.
If a kid is really into sports,
sports books are probablygonna be an easier sell.
- [Nicole] Yeah, absolutely.
(04:14):
- [Killian] So not evenjust what you've liked,
but what do you like besides the books.
And using,
I almost look at books that they've liked
as more of a, what styleof writing do you like?
Or what kinds of characters do you like?
More than a, what plot points do you like?
(04:34):
- [Drew] Mm, hm.
- [Nicole] Yeah.
What do you think aresome common challenges
in recommending books?
- [Amanda] I think thatit's hard for patrons to
sometimes convey why they liked something.
- [Nicole] Or even what they want.
- [Amanda] Yes, or what they want.
(04:55):
- [Nicole] Sometimes thereal question is trying
to figure out what they'rereally looking for,
which may be hard for somebody to,
to vocalize in a way.
You know, like, "Oh, theseare the books that I read.
"I don't really knowwhat I like about them."
especially if they don'thave a specific genre
that they really focus on.
Yeah, it can be hard to kindof glean that from them too.
(05:17):
- [Amanda] So I might ask,how do you wanna feel?
Do you wanna be moved emotionally?
Do you want-
- [Nicole] Oh, that's a good question.
(Drew chuckles)
- [Amanda] To have somethingthat is a challenge?
Do you want to
maybe have something that feels hopeful?
So, some of those questions might come up.
(05:41):
It's the other thing islike, what is the setting?
Is this something beforebed that you just want,
that's like pretty easyand will lull you to sleep?
(Drew laughs)
Do you wanna read it onthe beach during vacation
with a margarita?
So let's keep it to likesomething not too heady.
(Amanda laughs)- [Nicole] Yeah.
(06:02):
- [Amanda] And I thinkfor a lot of people,
it's hard to articulate
what they're looking forwith that sense of nuance.
- [Nicole] Sure.
- [Killian] One of the mostdifficult things for me is,
people who come in, becauseI'm recommending for kids,
they're looking for a book,
but they want somethingthat's not too scary
(06:23):
or not a lot of romance.
And it's like, okay,
I try to use, "what have you liked"
to gauge "what is scary."
But that doesn't even always work
because you know, there are some kids
that the Harry Potter booksare gonna be really scary.
So anything that's thatsimilar level of context,
I'm not gonna give them that.
(06:43):
- [Nicole] Right.
- [Killian] But there's somepeople who, that's not scary.
I just don't want ghosts because ghosts,
so, it's like lookingat what is it that you,
the patron, means by scary?
How do they quantify those things
can be a really difficult thing
(07:04):
to try and judge in the moment.
- [Nicole] Yeah.
- [Drew] I know for me,
the hardest part seems to be
the same thing that brings the patrons
to us in the first place.
It's the overwhelmingnumber of choices there are.
You know, I think thelibrary has something like
330,000 items in itover the whole library.
And within that, thereare probably, you know,
(07:27):
700-800 that I would feelcomfortable talking about.
Things that I've either read
or at least heard enough about
to know the general readertype that goes into it.
And you know, how do Istart to narrow that down?
To start feeling any level of confidence.
- [Nicole] Yeah.
(07:47):
One of my biggest challenges is
that when we're workingwith families specifically,
you'll have the parentthat's looking for something
and the child that's lookingfor something different.
- [Drew] Mm, hm.- [Killian] Yep.
- [Nicole] And for me,professionally, it's my job
to make sure that both parties are happy.
So sometimes there'sa little of the, well,
(08:10):
what do you think about this?
And then, well, maybe we'lldial that back a little bit
and what do you think about this?
And then we kind of come to a compromise.
So I mean, there is apoint where you just have
to have such a good handle on the material
that you're looking atthat you are able to kind
of make those decisionson what is a compromise.
(08:31):
Right? Like I've read these books
and I know them well enoughthat I'm able to kind
of see the difference inhow it might be suitable
for both parties.
And if all else fails, I willalways ask a staff member,
you know, because what I like to read
or what I have read isgonna be very different
than a coworker.
So, you know, I will help to a point,
(08:53):
but I'm also happy to say,
"You should talk to Andy,"
or, "You should talk to Lauren."
Or whomever else is there
because they might reallyhave that solid understanding
of exactly what they're looking for.
- [Killian] Yeah, I amnot the go-to person
for picture books
and I know that,
so I have some that I can recommend,
but if I'm having a hard time,
there are definitelycoworkers who I'll be like,
(09:16):
"You know these so much better than me.
"What do you recommend?"
- [Nicole] Yeah.
- [Killian] 'causethat's not my wheelhouse.
- [Nicole] So what aresome of our favorite tools
or resources that we useto do Reader's Advisory?
- [Amanda] Mine, whichI discovered recently.
Thank you, Shayna.(Drew laughs)
(09:38):
is a subset of "Literary Hub."
So "Literary Hub" is a website.
Part of that is called "Bookmarks."
- [Nicole] Okay.
- [Amanda] And it is anaggregator of all your reviews
for, I don't know how many,
but we'll say like,
what is coming out frompopular publishers.
(10:02):
And it gives you,
here were the number of rave reviews,
good reviews, mixed reviews.
So then you sort of get this idea of like,
do I want something thatis all rave reviews?
Do I want somethingthat's gonna, you know,
and so from that collection,
you can see, is this a rave review book?
Is this a positive review book?
(10:24):
Is this a mixed review book?
- [Nicole] Okay.
- [Amanda] So it's really, really helpful.
So you aren't going to multiple websites
and then it tells youwhat websites reviewed it,
and will give you like a onesentence from that website.
From "Publishers Weekly"and from book lists
and from "The Guardian," for example.
- [Drew] Nice.- [Nicole] Okay, cool.
- [Amanda] So, that's been mynew favorite, my new go-to.
(10:47):
- [Nicole] Sure.
- [Killian] Some thingsthat I really find helpful
for some of the thingsthat are harder to search
in our catalog for or things like that,
"Does the Dog Die" andthe trigger warnings
that you can put in on "Storygraph."
- [Nicole] Okay.
- [Killian] Because"Storygraph" has the ability
to put content warnings on reviews.
(11:07):
So I can look it up on there and see
what content review warningspeople have added to it.
Or if someone specifically, like,
"I want an animal book, but Idon't want the animal to die."
- [Nicole] Right.
- [Killian] Being able to like go check
and "Does the Dog Die"has a ton of things.
It's not just animal death.
But it's one of the overly common tropes,
(11:30):
particularly in a lot of kids' books
that they have named the site for.
And it's just a really greatway to be able to check
if you have a specific thingthat you're trying to avoid,
you can look for that.
- [Drew] "Storygraph" and"Goodreads" have always been
my favorite in those contexts.
(11:50):
They do a really goodjob on their pages of,
once you're on a specific book's page,
it gives you
regular consumer reviewspretty consistently,
but it will also give you, you know,
the next 10 or 15 things like it.
So if, you know, I'llturn the screen to them
(12:11):
and we'll read throughthe synopsis together
and they're like, "Youknow, this sounds okay,
"but I'm not really feeling it right now."
Cool.
I don't even have to change the webpage.
- [Nicole] Sure.
- [Drew] To see what otherthings to suggest next.
And then it lets me get alittle out of my own experiences
with books that I recommend
(12:32):
to have other trails to go down.
- [Nicole] I also use"Goodreads" a great deal.
But we at the libraryhave these really nice
bibliographies that weput together as librarians
in the youth area.
And so each one of us is supposedto choose a certain number
of titles for each age group,
(12:54):
and then somebody compiles them
and kind of makes them into a pamphlet.
And so those have been really helpful.
Specifically, like we notonly have ones by age,
but we have them by topic anda lot of different things.
So if a family comes into the library
and says, you know, I'mlooking specifically
for a great mystery for a third grader,
(13:14):
I'm able to walk over to a wall,
hand them an actualpiece of paper that has,
you know, vetted titles that librarians
that we have read and recommend for them.
Those things are really,really helpful to us.
But, you know, not availableto the general world.
That's just somethingwe use in the library.
- [Killian] We also have our book menu
over by the fiction collection,
(13:36):
which is fun for really niche topics.
Some of the pages in there are like,
"books about food"
and it's, you know, oneof the books on that page
is about a kid being afood critic and kid chefs
and things like that.
"Books that are tear jerkers
"and will make you cry," things like that.
Just topics that you might not have enough
(13:57):
for a long bibliography, buthere's a picture of covers
and a call number and you can go find it
and you can browse thatwithout talking to someone.
- [Nicole] Sure.
- [Killian] Or we're happyto help you, look at those
and tell you more about those.
- [Nicole] Yeah, yeah.
- [Drew] Yeah, we alsohave a bibliography wall,
but it cycles and getsreplaced a lot more frequently
than the youth side.
- [Nicole] Mm.
(14:18):
- [Drew] So the youthside has several of them
that you update every year,
but stay generally the same.
It's going to be the a hundredbooks for K through eight.
- [Nicole] Right.
- [Drew] Every grade level gets one.
There are a lot of otherconsistent ones there.
And we have, you know, fun bibs
that we'll put together every month,
but they'll disappear from the wall
(14:39):
after four or five monthsas we cycle more through.
- [Nicole] Sure.
- [Drew] So it's a lotof, they're fun to make
and they're fun to walk patrons over to,
but it's not really a likestaple resource for us.
- [Nicole] Okay, gotcha.
- [Drew] In the sameway that it is in youth.
- [Nicole] Yeah, yeah.
So we decided to do somethingreally fun for this episode
(15:01):
and we decided that we weregonna do Reader's Advisory
for each other and kind of an odd idea,
but I thought that
the kids librarians couldrecommend kids books
for the adult librarians and vice versa.
So,
Killian and I discussed,
(15:21):
and so we would like to recommendbooks for Amanda and Drew.
- [Amanda] Ooh!
- [Nicole] But from thekids area, things that,
just based on what we know aboutyou and your reading taste.
So we had to like dig in our brains
and kind of think aboutwhat would be titles
that would suit you guys.
And you have done the same for us, yes?
(15:41):
- Yes.- Mm, hm.
- [Nicole] Okay, very good.
All right.
So I am going to recommend,
we're gonna recommend "WinnieNash Is Not Your Sunshine."
And that is by, let mefind the author's name,
Nicole Melleby.
I have it here.
I'm gonna pull it up sothat I can look at it.
(16:02):
Hold on.
- [Drew] Yeah.
Youth was more preparedthan adult in the sense
that they brought theactual physical books
to the recording studio.
- [Killian] We're just very used to props,
story time and all that.
- [Amanda] Yes, if you would like me
to read from it for you.
(Drew laughs)
- [Nicole] So this book isour recommendation for Drew.
All right?
And so the summary of the book is,
(16:23):
Winnie Nash has to stay withher grandma for the summer
because her mom is pregnant.
And they decided thatit would be just easier
with all the stress ofthe house and everything
if Winnie would go stay withher grandma for the summer.
Her grandmother is an activepart of an old folks home.
Gosh, that sounds terrible.
(16:45):
Just, you know, like a seniorcenter, kind of situation.
And so Winnie startsgoing to the senior center
with her grandma.
Oh, first I should mention,
her parents sit her down before she goes
and tell her specificallynot to tell grandma
too much about what's going on at home
and don't tell her that, that you're gay.
(17:05):
So she goes to the grandma's house
and she's been closeted by her parents,
which she hasn't been this whole time.
It makes her feel really uncomfortable.
'cause she's just like,"Well, what the heck?
"This is so bizarre. Whatdifference does it make?"
She starts going to this senior center
with her and becomes part ofa book club with her grandma.
(17:26):
Now mind you, the otherseniors do not want Winnie
in their book club.
They don't think thatshe needs to be there.
And there's some boisteroussort of conversations
about this.
But Winnie likes to read,so she reads these books
and joins in the conversations.
So this whole story is basically about how
(17:48):
she secretly wishes to attendPride in New York City.
She tries not to get outed by an old lady
that's at the senior center,
because she's pretty surethis lady is onto her
and also worries abouther mom's depression
around the pregnancy.
And that's kind of thewhole, the whole spiel.
So like, what will happen with Winnie?
(18:08):
- [Drew] Gimme, gimme.
- Yeah.(all laugh)
- [Nicole] This is for you.
Okay.
Do we wanna split it up?
How about you guys recommend one to us?
- [Drew] Yeah, I'll feed back to you
and do the one for Nicole.
- Okay.
- [Drew] So I chose Paladin'sGrace by T Kingfisher.
- [Nicole] Okay, I'm intrigued.
- [Drew] It is a fantasy.(all laughing)
(18:30):
It is a fantasy book set in a world
where the gods are maybe notactive parts of the world,
but similar to the Greek pantheon
where like they can be in communication.
And it follows a group ofpaladins whose god died.
- [Nicole] Okay.
(18:50):
- [Drew] And like thewhole paladin concept is,
they are champions for their god.
- [Nicole] Okay.
- [Drew] In the regular world.
So it's like, what becomesof all of their training,
all of their customs, their mission.
- [Nicole] Okay.
- [Drew] When their god,
the thing that they'vepledged themselves to
no longer exists.
(19:11):
- [Nicole] Wow.
- [Drew] And like how tofunction in that world.
And then within that, thereare also romantic elements
to each paladin's journey.
It's just a reallyinteresting world to live in.
- [Nicole] Cool.
I'm sold.
- [Drew] Yeah.- [Nicole] I'll read it.
- [Killian] I wanna read it.(all laugh)
- [Nicole] Right?
Okay.
(19:32):
The book that I would liketo recommend for Amanda,
this is, the title is"The Wrong Way Home."
I'm grabbing it, sorry.
And this is by Kate O'Shaughnessy.
I know that Amanda reallylikes life situations
and learning about otherpeople's experiences,
(19:53):
especially tough experiences.
So I thought this bookwould be good for you.
The story is about Fern
who has lived at the ranchsince she was six years old.
She thinks of it as an off thegrid sustainable community,
but it's really a cult.
- [Amanda] Did you knowthat I love cult content?
(20:16):
- [Nicole] I did not.- [Amanda] Okay (laughing).
Perfect, I'm sold.
- [Nicole] So her momand I'm using air quotes,
kidnaps her and flees
to the completely otherside of the country.
Fern is upset and mad,she's so upset with her mom.
She just wants to go back to the ranch
and she's upset that she hasto live like a normy life
(20:39):
and she's gotta be around these people
and wear their clothes and goto school and all this stuff.
And she's trying as hard as she can
to make contact the ranch.
- [Amanda] I love this.
- [Nicole] I am recommendingthis book for you.
- [Amanda] Yes, please.
- [Nicole] I'm handing itover if you can hear that.
No?(all laughing)
- [Amanda] Thank you.
I'm excited.
- [Nicole] So, yeah, okay.
We thought you would like that.
(21:01):
- [Drew] And for Miss Killian,
- [Killian] This is theclearly the hardest one,
I'm sure, to figure out.
- [Drew] I would not be surprised
if I've talked this book up to you before.
- [Killian] Probably.
- [Drew] "A Taste of Gold andIron" by Alexandra Rowland.
- [Killian] I don't know ifyou've talked it up to me,
but I have heard of it.
- [Drew] Okay.
So the starting premise is,
(21:21):
a, I believe he's a prince in their like,
nondescript, middle ages society.
And he, by virtue of thisreally intense anxiety
that he's, you know,suffering with in silence,
a panic attack comes over him.
Not called that in thebook, but that's what it is.
And it results in the deathof someone in the Army
(21:45):
who is protecting him.
And he is reassigned a new protector.
And the relationship thatthey have is this really,
really interesting buildwith very clear delineations
between the distrust,enemy status of it all,
where the captain of theguard is very like, affronted
(22:08):
by this prince anddevastated that he's assigned
to his duty because itdoesn't respect him at all
to like begrudging respect to tolerance
and goes all the way to love.
- [Killian] Aw.
- [Drew] It's super cute.
I know you're on this wholeromantasy kick right now,
(22:28):
and I felt it would beperfectly in your wheelhouse.
- [Killian] Yay.
You know me well, yes.
(all laugh)
- [Nicole] All right.
Well, I hope that someof our tips and tricks
from today will be helpful to you.
And as always, if you arenot sure what you wanna read,
please go find your local librarian.
- [Killian] It's oneof our favorite things.
(22:48):
- [Nicole] It is, it really is.
All right, well, thank you for listening
and we will see you next time.
Thank you for joining us for this episode
of Distracted Librarians.
- [Drew] Many thanks to BCTVfor their support in recording,
editing and releasing this podcast.
And to the friends of the library
for sponsoring closedcaptioning on every episode.
- [Killian] If you have anyquestions or suggestions,
(23:10):
feel free to reach out tous @distractedatbtpl.org.
- [Amanda] Until then,keep those pages turning
and those screens lighting up.
We'll catch you in the next episode.
- [Nicole] The viewsand opinions expressed
in the Distracted Librarians podcast
do not necessarily reflect those
of Bloomfield Township, BloomfieldTownship Public Library,
(23:32):
Bloomfield Community Television,
the Birmingham Area Cable Board,
or its producers or production staff.
- [Nicole] Hey there.
Welcome to the DistractedLibrarians podcast.
We are your friendly neighborhoodbookworms with a penchant
for all things pop culture.
- [Drew] Picture thisas our digital campfire
where we dive into our latest obsessions,
analyze our favorite distractions,
and rediscover the joy of reading.
- [Killian] Whether you're amedia enthusiast, a book lover,
(00:21):
or just need a break from the daily grind,
you've come to the right spot.
- [Amanda] So kick back, relax,
and get delightfully distracted with us.
- [Nicole] Hey everybody.
On today's episode of theDistracted Librarians,
we are going to talkabout Readers Advisory,
mostly like, "How To" Readers Advisory.
(00:42):
So I'm gonna give youguys a definition, just
because this feels verymuch like librarian speak
and not something thatpeople just talk about
in general life.
- [Killian] Yeah, for sure.
- [Nicole] Readers Advisory.
All right, it is defined as,
a successful ReadersAdvisory service is one
in which knowledgeable,nonjudgmental staff help
(01:05):
fiction readers with their reading needs.
This is from Saricks and Brown,
"Readers Advisory Servicein the Public Library."
I don't agree with thefiction thing, necessarily.
- [Drew] It's interestingthey specified that.
- [Nicole] Yeah, because Ifeel like when people come
into the youth room at the library,
we are helping them find alldifferent types of books,
(01:26):
not necessarily just fiction.
- [Killian] And honestly,not even just books.
- [Nicole] Right, yeah.
All right, so,
how do we do Readers Advisory for people?
I mean, I'm sure we eachhave our own technique
or way that we do, what tools we use.
- [Drew] Yeah.
(01:46):
- [Amanda] I think one of thethings that I start with is
just suggesting I can tell you like,
I can recommend a book for you.
I think most people don't realize that
that's something we do.
People feel bad asking for it.
They're like, oh, I don'tknow what I wanna read.
And I'm like, that's okay.
That's why I'm here.
(02:07):
- [Nicole] Yeah, yeah.
- [Amanda] So, even justsort of really offering it
and letting people knowthat that's something
that we do, it's part of our job.
- [Nicole] Sure, absolutely.
Yeah, I mean I think that like,
the reference interview,
which is, I think whatyou guys probably call it
in adult services,
I don't think we actually referto as that at all in youth,
(02:30):
but just having aconversation with the person.
In some cases, it's theparent of the child.
And in some cases it's theactual child that's coming up
and saying, "Hey, I needa book. Can you help me?"
Sometimes it's very specific,
so we have to really kindof look a little bit deeper.
And sometimes it's just like,
(02:51):
"Hey, I need a book that I would like."
And those, I think are the most fun
because then I can just say,
"Well, what have you readbefore that really you liked?"
So we can do kind of aread alike situation.
- [Drew] The parentthing is the part of it
that I would be so unfamiliar with
if I was sat at your desk.
Because most referenceinterviews that I'll start,
do start with that.
(03:12):
Like, what's the last book youread that you really liked?
I don't know how I would handle
that if it was a parentasking for the child.
- [Killian] So it's always interesting
because personally forme, if the kid is there,
I'm going to talk to the kid.
- [Drew] Yeah.
- [Killian] Even if the parent comes up
and you know, "Oh, she needssomething to read for school,
"she's got a book report,
(03:32):
"we're looking forsomething she's gonna like."
I'm gonna turn to the childand ask them what they like
because they are going tobetter understand what they like
and why they like it.
Sometimes we don't have that
'cause the parent'scoming in without the kid.
I will generally go with if weknow something that they've,
that they have really enjoyed.
(03:53):
But I will also ask about like things
that they are interestedin outside of books.
If you know a kid'sreally into video games,
there's a lot of books thatkind of involve video games
that are going to beprobably an easier sell.
If a kid is really into sports,
sports books are probablygonna be an easier sell.
- [Nicole] Yeah, absolutely.
(04:14):
- [Killian] So not evenjust what you've liked,
but what do you like besides the books.
And using,
I almost look at books that they've liked
as more of a, what styleof writing do you like?
Or what kinds of characters do you like?
More than a, what plot points do you like?
(04:34):
- [Drew] Mm, hm.
- [Nicole] Yeah.
What do you think aresome common challenges
in recommending books?
- [Amanda] I think thatit's hard for patrons to
sometimes convey why they liked something.
- [Nicole] Or even what they want.
- [Amanda] Yes, or what they want.
(04:55):
- [Nicole] Sometimes thereal question is trying
to figure out what they'rereally looking for,
which may be hard for somebody to,
to vocalize in a way.
You know, like, "Oh, theseare the books that I read.
"I don't really knowwhat I like about them."
especially if they don'thave a specific genre
that they really focus on.
Yeah, it can be hard to kindof glean that from them too.
(05:17):
- [Amanda] So I might ask,how do you wanna feel?
Do you wanna be moved emotionally?
Do you want-
- [Nicole] Oh, that's a good question.
(Drew chuckles)
- [Amanda] To have somethingthat is a challenge?
Do you want to
maybe have something that feels hopeful?
So, some of those questions might come up.
(05:41):
It's the other thing islike, what is the setting?
Is this something beforebed that you just want,
that's like pretty easyand will lull you to sleep?
(Drew laughs)
Do you wanna read it onthe beach during vacation
with a margarita?
So let's keep it to likesomething not too heady.
(Amanda laughs)- [Nicole] Yeah.
(06:02):
- [Amanda] And I thinkfor a lot of people,
it's hard to articulate
what they're looking forwith that sense of nuance.
- [Nicole] Sure.
- [Killian] One of the mostdifficult things for me is,
people who come in, becauseI'm recommending for kids,
they're looking for a book,
but they want somethingthat's not too scary
(06:23):
or not a lot of romance.
And it's like, okay,
I try to use, "what have you liked"
to gauge "what is scary."
But that doesn't even always work
because you know, there are some kids
that the Harry Potter booksare gonna be really scary.
So anything that's thatsimilar level of context,
I'm not gonna give them that.
(06:43):
- [Nicole] Right.
- [Killian] But there's somepeople who, that's not scary.
I just don't want ghosts because ghosts,
so, it's like lookingat what is it that you,
the patron, means by scary?
How do they quantify those things
can be a really difficult thing
(07:04):
to try and judge in the moment.
- [Nicole] Yeah.
- [Drew] I know for me,
the hardest part seems to be
the same thing that brings the patrons
to us in the first place.
It's the overwhelmingnumber of choices there are.
You know, I think thelibrary has something like
330,000 items in itover the whole library.
And within that, thereare probably, you know,
(07:27):
700-800 that I would feelcomfortable talking about.
Things that I've either read
or at least heard enough about
to know the general readertype that goes into it.
And you know, how do Istart to narrow that down?
To start feeling any level of confidence.
- [Nicole] Yeah.
(07:47):
One of my biggest challenges is
that when we're workingwith families specifically,
you'll have the parentthat's looking for something
and the child that's lookingfor something different.
- [Drew] Mm, hm.- [Killian] Yep.
- [Nicole] And for me,professionally, it's my job
to make sure that both parties are happy.
So sometimes there'sa little of the, well,
(08:10):
what do you think about this?
And then, well, maybe we'lldial that back a little bit
and what do you think about this?
And then we kind of come to a compromise.
So I mean, there is apoint where you just have
to have such a good handle on the material
that you're looking atthat you are able to kind
of make those decisionson what is a compromise.
(08:31):
Right? Like I've read these books
and I know them well enoughthat I'm able to kind
of see the difference inhow it might be suitable
for both parties.
And if all else fails, I willalways ask a staff member,
you know, because what I like to read
or what I have read isgonna be very different
than a coworker.
So, you know, I will help to a point,
(08:53):
but I'm also happy to say,
"You should talk to Andy,"
or, "You should talk to Lauren."
Or whomever else is there
because they might reallyhave that solid understanding
of exactly what they're looking for.
- [Killian] Yeah, I amnot the go-to person
for picture books
and I know that,
so I have some that I can recommend,
but if I'm having a hard time,
there are definitelycoworkers who I'll be like,
(09:16):
"You know these so much better than me.
"What do you recommend?"
- [Nicole] Yeah.
- [Killian] 'causethat's not my wheelhouse.
- [Nicole] So what aresome of our favorite tools
or resources that we useto do Reader's Advisory?
- [Amanda] Mine, whichI discovered recently.
Thank you, Shayna.(Drew laughs)
(09:38):
is a subset of "Literary Hub."
So "Literary Hub" is a website.
Part of that is called "Bookmarks."
- [Nicole] Okay.
- [Amanda] And it is anaggregator of all your reviews
for, I don't know how many,
but we'll say like,
what is coming out frompopular publishers.
(10:02):
And it gives you,
here were the number of rave reviews,
good reviews, mixed reviews.
So then you sort of get this idea of like,
do I want something thatis all rave reviews?
Do I want somethingthat's gonna, you know,
and so from that collection,
you can see, is this a rave review book?
Is this a positive review book?
(10:24):
Is this a mixed review book?
- [Nicole] Okay.
- [Amanda] So it's really, really helpful.
So you aren't going to multiple websites
and then it tells youwhat websites reviewed it,
and will give you like a onesentence from that website.
From "Publishers Weekly"and from book lists
and from "The Guardian," for example.
- [Drew] Nice.- [Nicole] Okay, cool.
- [Amanda] So, that's been mynew favorite, my new go-to.
(10:47):
- [Nicole] Sure.
- [Killian] Some thingsthat I really find helpful
for some of the thingsthat are harder to search
in our catalog for or things like that,
"Does the Dog Die" andthe trigger warnings
that you can put in on "Storygraph."
- [Nicole] Okay.
- [Killian] Because"Storygraph" has the ability
to put content warnings on reviews.
(11:07):
So I can look it up on there and see
what content review warningspeople have added to it.
Or if someone specifically, like,
"I want an animal book, but Idon't want the animal to die."
- [Nicole] Right.
- [Killian] Being able to like go check
and "Does the Dog Die"has a ton of things.
It's not just animal death.
But it's one of the overly common tropes,
(11:30):
particularly in a lot of kids' books
that they have named the site for.
And it's just a really greatway to be able to check
if you have a specific thingthat you're trying to avoid,
you can look for that.
- [Drew] "Storygraph" and"Goodreads" have always been
my favorite in those contexts.
(11:50):
They do a really goodjob on their pages of,
once you're on a specific book's page,
it gives you
regular consumer reviewspretty consistently,
but it will also give you, you know,
the next 10 or 15 things like it.
So if, you know, I'llturn the screen to them
(12:11):
and we'll read throughthe synopsis together
and they're like, "Youknow, this sounds okay,
"but I'm not really feeling it right now."
Cool.
I don't even have to change the webpage.
- [Nicole] Sure.
- [Drew] To see what otherthings to suggest next.
And then it lets me get alittle out of my own experiences
with books that I recommend
(12:32):
to have other trails to go down.
- [Nicole] I also use"Goodreads" a great deal.
But we at the libraryhave these really nice
bibliographies that weput together as librarians
in the youth area.
And so each one of us is supposedto choose a certain number
of titles for each age group,
(12:54):
and then somebody compiles them
and kind of makes them into a pamphlet.
And so those have been really helpful.
Specifically, like we notonly have ones by age,
but we have them by topic anda lot of different things.
So if a family comes into the library
and says, you know, I'mlooking specifically
for a great mystery for a third grader,
(13:14):
I'm able to walk over to a wall,
hand them an actualpiece of paper that has,
you know, vetted titles that librarians
that we have read and recommend for them.
Those things are really,really helpful to us.
But, you know, not availableto the general world.
That's just somethingwe use in the library.
- [Killian] We also have our book menu
over by the fiction collection,
(13:36):
which is fun for really niche topics.
Some of the pages in there are like,
"books about food"
and it's, you know, oneof the books on that page
is about a kid being afood critic and kid chefs
and things like that.
"Books that are tear jerkers
"and will make you cry," things like that.
Just topics that you might not have enough
(13:57):
for a long bibliography, buthere's a picture of covers
and a call number and you can go find it
and you can browse thatwithout talking to someone.
- [Nicole] Sure.
- [Killian] Or we're happyto help you, look at those
and tell you more about those.
- [Nicole] Yeah, yeah.
- [Drew] Yeah, we alsohave a bibliography wall,
but it cycles and getsreplaced a lot more frequently
than the youth side.
- [Nicole] Mm.
(14:18):
- [Drew] So the youthside has several of them
that you update every year,
but stay generally the same.
It's going to be the a hundredbooks for K through eight.
- [Nicole] Right.
- [Drew] Every grade level gets one.
There are a lot of otherconsistent ones there.
And we have, you know, fun bibs
that we'll put together every month,
but they'll disappear from the wall
(14:39):
after four or five monthsas we cycle more through.
- [Nicole] Sure.
- [Drew] So it's a lotof, they're fun to make
and they're fun to walk patrons over to,
but it's not really a likestaple resource for us.
- [Nicole] Okay, gotcha.
- [Drew] In the sameway that it is in youth.
- [Nicole] Yeah, yeah.
So we decided to do somethingreally fun for this episode
(15:01):
and we decided that we weregonna do Reader's Advisory
for each other and kind of an odd idea,
but I thought that
the kids librarians couldrecommend kids books
for the adult librarians and vice versa.
So,
Killian and I discussed,
(15:21):
and so we would like to recommendbooks for Amanda and Drew.
- [Amanda] Ooh!
- [Nicole] But from thekids area, things that,
just based on what we know aboutyou and your reading taste.
So we had to like dig in our brains
and kind of think aboutwhat would be titles
that would suit you guys.
And you have done the same for us, yes?
(15:41):
- Yes.- Mm, hm.
- [Nicole] Okay, very good.
All right.
So I am going to recommend,
we're gonna recommend "WinnieNash Is Not Your Sunshine."
And that is by, let mefind the author's name,
Nicole Melleby.
I have it here.
I'm gonna pull it up sothat I can look at it.
(16:02):
Hold on.
- [Drew] Yeah.
Youth was more preparedthan adult in the sense
that they brought theactual physical books
to the recording studio.
- [Killian] We're just very used to props,
story time and all that.
- [Amanda] Yes, if you would like me
to read from it for you.
(Drew laughs)
- [Nicole] So this book isour recommendation for Drew.
All right?
And so the summary of the book is,
(16:23):
Winnie Nash has to stay withher grandma for the summer
because her mom is pregnant.
And they decided thatit would be just easier
with all the stress ofthe house and everything
if Winnie would go stay withher grandma for the summer.
Her grandmother is an activepart of an old folks home.
Gosh, that sounds terrible.
(16:45):
Just, you know, like a seniorcenter, kind of situation.
And so Winnie startsgoing to the senior center
with her grandma.
Oh, first I should mention,
her parents sit her down before she goes
and tell her specificallynot to tell grandma
too much about what's going on at home
and don't tell her that, that you're gay.
(17:05):
So she goes to the grandma's house
and she's been closeted by her parents,
which she hasn't been this whole time.
It makes her feel really uncomfortable.
'cause she's just like,"Well, what the heck?
"This is so bizarre. Whatdifference does it make?"
She starts going to this senior center
with her and becomes part ofa book club with her grandma.
(17:26):
Now mind you, the otherseniors do not want Winnie
in their book club.
They don't think thatshe needs to be there.
And there's some boisteroussort of conversations
about this.
But Winnie likes to read,so she reads these books
and joins in the conversations.
So this whole story is basically about how
(17:48):
she secretly wishes to attendPride in New York City.
She tries not to get outed by an old lady
that's at the senior center,
because she's pretty surethis lady is onto her
and also worries abouther mom's depression
around the pregnancy.
And that's kind of thewhole, the whole spiel.
So like, what will happen with Winnie?
(18:08):
- [Drew] Gimme, gimme.
- Yeah.(all laugh)
- [Nicole] This is for you.
Okay.
Do we wanna split it up?
How about you guys recommend one to us?
- [Drew] Yeah, I'll feed back to you
and do the one for Nicole.
- Okay.
- [Drew] So I chose Paladin'sGrace by T Kingfisher.
- [Nicole] Okay, I'm intrigued.
- [Drew] It is a fantasy.(all laughing)
(18:30):
It is a fantasy book set in a world
where the gods are maybe notactive parts of the world,
but similar to the Greek pantheon
where like they can be in communication.
And it follows a group ofpaladins whose god died.
- [Nicole] Okay.
(18:50):
- [Drew] And like thewhole paladin concept is,
they are champions for their god.
- [Nicole] Okay.
- [Drew] In the regular world.
So it's like, what becomesof all of their training,
all of their customs, their mission.
- [Nicole] Okay.
- [Drew] When their god,
the thing that they'vepledged themselves to
no longer exists.
(19:11):
- [Nicole] Wow.
- [Drew] And like how tofunction in that world.
And then within that, thereare also romantic elements
to each paladin's journey.
It's just a reallyinteresting world to live in.
- [Nicole] Cool.
I'm sold.
- [Drew] Yeah.- [Nicole] I'll read it.
- [Killian] I wanna read it.(all laugh)
- [Nicole] Right?
Okay.
(19:32):
The book that I would liketo recommend for Amanda,
this is, the title is"The Wrong Way Home."
I'm grabbing it, sorry.
And this is by Kate O'Shaughnessy.
I know that Amanda reallylikes life situations
and learning about otherpeople's experiences,
(19:53):
especially tough experiences.
So I thought this bookwould be good for you.
The story is about Fern
who has lived at the ranchsince she was six years old.
She thinks of it as an off thegrid sustainable community,
but it's really a cult.
- [Amanda] Did you knowthat I love cult content?
(20:16):
- [Nicole] I did not.- [Amanda] Okay (laughing).
Perfect, I'm sold.
- [Nicole] So her momand I'm using air quotes,
kidnaps her and flees
to the completely otherside of the country.
Fern is upset and mad,she's so upset with her mom.
She just wants to go back to the ranch
and she's upset that she hasto live like a normy life
(20:39):
and she's gotta be around these people
and wear their clothes and goto school and all this stuff.
And she's trying as hard as she can
to make contact the ranch.
- [Amanda] I love this.
- [Nicole] I am recommendingthis book for you.
- [Amanda] Yes, please.
- [Nicole] I'm handing itover if you can hear that.
No?(all laughing)
- [Amanda] Thank you.
I'm excited.
- [Nicole] So, yeah, okay.
We thought you would like that.
(21:01):
- [Drew] And for Miss Killian,
- [Killian] This is theclearly the hardest one,
I'm sure, to figure out.
- [Drew] I would not be surprised
if I've talked this book up to you before.
- [Killian] Probably.
- [Drew] "A Taste of Gold andIron" by Alexandra Rowland.
- [Killian] I don't know ifyou've talked it up to me,
but I have heard of it.
- [Drew] Okay.
So the starting premise is,
(21:21):
a, I believe he's a prince in their like,
nondescript, middle ages society.
And he, by virtue of thisreally intense anxiety
that he's, you know,suffering with in silence,
a panic attack comes over him.
Not called that in thebook, but that's what it is.
And it results in the deathof someone in the Army
(21:45):
who is protecting him.
And he is reassigned a new protector.
And the relationship thatthey have is this really,
really interesting buildwith very clear delineations
between the distrust,enemy status of it all,
where the captain of theguard is very like, affronted
(22:08):
by this prince anddevastated that he's assigned
to his duty because itdoesn't respect him at all
to like begrudging respect to tolerance
and goes all the way to love.
- [Killian] Aw.
- [Drew] It's super cute.
I know you're on this wholeromantasy kick right now,
(22:28):
and I felt it would beperfectly in your wheelhouse.
- [Killian] Yay.
You know me well, yes.
(all laugh)
- [Nicole] All right.
Well, I hope that someof our tips and tricks
from today will be helpful to you.
And as always, if you arenot sure what you wanna read,
please go find your local librarian.
- [Killian] It's oneof our favorite things.
(22:48):
- [Nicole] It is, it really is.
All right, well, thank you for listening
and we will see you next time.
Thank you for joining us for this episode
of Distracted Librarians.
- [Drew] Many thanks to BCTVfor their support in recording,
editing and releasing this podcast.
And to the friends of the library
for sponsoring closedcaptioning on every episode.
- [Killian] If you have anyquestions or suggestions,
(23:10):
feel free to reach out tous @distractedatbtpl.org.
- [Amanda] Until then,keep those pages turning
and those screens lighting up.
We'll catch you in the next episode.
- [Nicole] The viewsand opinions expressed
in the Distracted Librarians podcast
do not necessarily reflect those
of Bloomfield Township, BloomfieldTownship Public Library,
(23:32):
Bloomfield Community Television,
the Birmingham Area Cable Board,
or its producers or production staff.
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