August 15, 2025 • 23 mins
Is listening to audiobooks really reading? Does it count? Nicole, Drew, Killian, and Amanda discuss these questions and more on this episode of The Distracted Librarians.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Nicole - Hey there, welcome to
"The Distracted Librarians" Podcast.
We are your friendly neighborhoodbookworms with a penchant
for all things pop culture.
Drew - Picture this asour digital campfire,
where we dive into our latest obsessions,
analyze our favorite distractions,
and rediscover the joy of reading.
Killian - Whether you're amedia enthusiast, a book lover,
(00:21):
or just need a break from the daily grind,
you've come to the right spot.
Amanda - So, kick back, relax,
and get delightfully distracted with us.
Nicole - Hey, everybody.
Today on "The Distracted Librarians,"
we are going to be talking about
In Defense of Audiobooksfrom a Library Standpoint.
I'm Nicole.
Amanda - I'm Amanda.Killian - I'm Killian.
(00:43):
Drew - And I'm Drew.
Nicole- All right, so do you guys remember
the first audiobook
that you ever listened to, andwhat did you think about it?
Killian- I don't remembera specific audiobook
because I was so young.
But when I was a kid, I had thelittle Disney books on tape.
It came with a little paperback,and the cassette tape,
(01:04):
and the tape, littlebright colored tape player.
And I loved those.(Drew laughs)
I, to this day, remember thesound it made to turn the page.
And I remember just like beingsprawled on my bedroom floor
with one of those playingtape and reading along.
And, yeah, so I loved themfrom day one. (laughs)
Drew- Wait, was it like a musical chime
(01:25):
to turn the page?Killian- Yeah.
Drew- Really?Killian- Yeah, there were,
at the start, it was always this,
you know, "When you hearthis sound, turn the page,"
and it was this little like magicy sound.
I can't recreate it, or I would,
but I know what, like Ihear it in my head. (laughs)
Drew- No, sing it immediately.Killian- No.
(everybody laughs)
Nicole- I definitely had that too.
I had a Care Bears taperecorder or tape deck,
and I had a bunch of tapes and books also.
(01:48):
We have them as mediakits in the library now.
Of course, they're on CD,they're not tapes anymore.
But that was like my parents'way of not having to read
to me every single night.
They would just hand me atape, and I would go and listen
and flip my pages myself.
It was so much fun.
Drew- Yeah, mine was the first"Harry Potter," such that,
(02:09):
that is now, but it waslike a 10-cassette box.
Nicole- Oh, my gosh, the cassettes.
Killian- Yeah.Nicole- Yes, it was huge.
Drew- Yep.Amanda- If you're going back
in time to cassettes, thenthat was like formative years.
Nicole- Mm-hmm.
Amanda- I think I missed that era
'cause I didn't reallyget into them until CDs
and I had a car that hada CD player in there,
(02:32):
and I would carry aroundthese like multi-CD books,
and there wasn't onethat's really significant.
But I do remember goingthrough, flipping them
through the different six CDs to listen
to a novel in my car.
And that was like reallygold as a high schooler
(02:53):
or a college studentand you have no money,
and so you're just goingto the library to get CDs
for music and audiobooks, so good.
Nicole- Sure.
Killian- My cars were alwaystoo far behind. (indistinct)
(everybody laughs)
Nicole- So I used to work at a bookstore,
and I remember seeing, you know,
we had the books on tape,and they were so expensive.
(03:15):
I mean, so expensive, likehundreds of dollars for them.
And so it's crazy to me,like, they were not affordable
to me as a teenager
or as a young, you know,20-something person.
Amanda- No.
Nicole- So going to the library was
absolutely the way to go.
There was no way I could afford the books
that I wanted to listen to.
Drew- Yeah, going off yourstory for a second, Amanda.
(03:37):
In my first car, I had oneof those fancy tape player
or disc players where itwas like the six-CD holder.
Amanda- Oh, yeah.
Drew- That went into the console.
Amanda- Oh, nice.Drew- As opposed to the trunk.
Nicole- It was a Cara-Drew- As opposed to the trunk.
Yeah.
Nicole- It's a Carousel. (laughs)
Drew- The Carousel, thank you.
Amanda- Did you have toget it installed yourself?
(03:57):
Because I feel like that was not standard.
Maybe it was.
Drew- It was standard in, I guess, 2002,
which was the era that that car came from.
But I remember putting in, itwas like, obviously pre-Libby,
putting in the first six"Game of Thrones" discs.
Nicole- Oh, my gosh.Drew- And then not having
to change the discs out as frequently.
(04:18):
Nicole- Yeah.Amanda- Luxury.
Nicole- Yeah.Drew- Peak loss.
(everybody laughs)
Killian- See, I didnot have a CD player in
my car until 2011.
Nicole- Okay.
Killian- Because Idrove a '92 before that,
and so I had nothing.
I couldn't listen to audiobooks in my car.
I got my car with a CD player,
and then it was like,yes, I can do audiobooks.
Great, of course, at thatpoint, I was starting
(04:39):
to get into libraries.
I was starting to get like, okay,
Libby's around, whichwasn't Libby at the time,
but I had no way to listen to that
when everyone else had (laughs)Bluetooth in their cars.
Nicole- Yeah.Killian- So I'm still behind.
I still don't haveBluetooth in my car, but...
(co-hosts laughing)
Nicole- Well, let'stalk about a little bit
of the reason why we'redoing this specific podcast,
(05:02):
In Defense of Audiobooks.
So, how are we, like, whatare some of the things
that we see about audiobooks
that we're defending them against?
Drew- That they're,quote-unquote, not real.
Nicole- Or not real reading?Killian- It's not reading.
Nicole- It's not reading.Amanda- Or subpar
to a physical book.
Drew- Yes.Nicole- Yeah, yeah,
which is kind of crazy, right?
I mean, I think for us it's crazy.
(05:25):
Audiobooks aren't real reading.
I wonder where that like comes from.
Killian- I think just from avery literal interpretation
of reading being a visual practice,
which is so wild
because, for accessibilityreasons, there's plenty
of reasons someone can't read
(05:45):
a print book with their eyes.
Whether it is because they can't see it,
or you know, the font is too small,
or they can't hold an open book.
I, one of my first libraryjobs, I had an internship
with the Wayne CountyRegional Library for the blind
(06:05):
and physically handicapped.
Nicole- Okay.
Killian- And that was involved,
you know, sending out,
we were just decommissioningthe tape players
and the cassettes while I was there,
but they had been sendingcassette players out
to folks who couldn't read print books
for whatever reason.
And we would send the players,
(06:27):
and then they would have awhole list populated of books,
and we would pull them from the shelves,
and they'd go out via the post office,
we'd send 'em every day.
And they switched over to a USB cartridge.
Nicole- Okay.
Killian- But yeah, it was, you know,
there's so many reasons
that people were a part of that program
and it wasn't justbecause they were blind,
(06:50):
or you know, it was, couldn't pick it up,
couldn't hold a book.
So many reasons, and Iwould never tell any of them
that's not reading a book.
Nicole- Right.
Killian- So many ofthem read so many books.
Nicole- Exactly, yeah.(everybody laughs)
Killian- We'd send them like five a week.
Nicole- And what an interesting job.
I mean, when we thinkabout public libraries,
and that's such a specializedlibrary, that's very cool.
(07:13):
Killian- And that service is still around.
It's just not quite as isolated
as that library itself was.
But you see the Braille andTalking Book Library as part
of a lot of different public libraries.
Nicole- Cool.
Drew- Yeah, my personal hot-take theory is
that it really is just afailing of the English language.
Why we have this debate.Nicole- Mm-hmm.
(07:35):
Drew- Because we havethe same word of reading
to like process words onthe page as we do to read,
to like absorb this book.Nicole- Mm-hmm.
Drew- And that's the disconnect.
Nicole- Sure.Drew- And that other languages
don't have this issue.
Killian- I love thelinguistic standpoint here.
(everybody laughs)
Nicole- Well, I thinkit's important to think
about audiobooks specificallyas a way to support literacy,
(07:59):
especially when we lookat kids and families.
You know, for Killian and I to remember
like actually reading a book by listening
to the tape and lookingat the words on the page,
that was a way to kind ofbuild a love for books that,
you know, that we have now.
So, for kids and families,especially for children
(08:22):
that might not actually bereally reading yet, it is a way
to kind of connect the word to the sound,
and push literacy in a way.
So I think that they're invaluable
for the children's department.
Killian- It really supports like
learning correct pronunciation
of things, too.
There's, it's kind
of a meme on social media aboutlike the words that I never,
(08:44):
I didn't pronounce correctlybecause I only ever read them.
But that's such a thing.
Nicole- Oh, yeah.Killian- And so,
it's the same thing with names,
especially in fantasy audiobooks.
Like being able (laughs)
to hear someone say it, a game-changer.
Nicole- Yeah, totally.
Drew- Oh, I do that constantlywith like high-fantasy books
that I get.
I'll get the audiobook from Libby
(09:05):
and listen to it for likethe first hour just to get
how they pronounce thename of the country.
Because it's always weird,
there are always like-Nicole- 15 syllables.
Drew- Two vowels for everysix consonants, it's nonsense.
Nicole- Oh, my goodness.
Killian- Like, I'm sure there's a way
this goes together.
I don't have it withinmy grasp of language.
Drew- Yeah. (laughs)(everybody laughs)
Nicole- Totally, wow.
(09:26):
So audiobooks boost vocabulary
and comprehension, especiallyfor kids, ESL learners,
and neurodivergent readers,which I think those,
that's really important also.
You know, I specifically listen
to audiobooks in veryspecific parts of my life.
Usually, it's during my commuteor while I'm walking my dog.
(09:48):
So, and I know that you guys may
also have your special timewhen you listen to audiobooks.
Drew- I can only do audiobooks in the car,
and it makes me very sad.
Nicole- Okay.- Yeah. (laughs)
Nicole- Yeah, I know peoplethat will like do their chores,
like their household choresand listen to audiobooks,
and I'm like, "Oh, my gosh,my kids' socks would be
like in the refrigerator if I did that."
(10:09):
Killian- That was literallyme on Saturday, Sunday,
Drew, I was messagingyou, which day was that?
Drew- Sunday.(everybody laughs)
Killian- Sometime this weekend.
I was like, "Okay, I have a to-do list
and I am overwhelmed by it,but I need to get it done."
I have an audiobook and a dream, let's go.
And so I was like,noise-canceling headphones,
(10:30):
and I had my audiobook going,
and I'm like, okay, gottaclean out the fridge, gotta,
you know, take the garbage out.
And I got most of it done, so. (laughs)
Nicole- Good.Amanda- I think if you
ever have a really bigtask, like I listened
to an audiobook that wasa little over six hours,
while clearing out the garage.
(10:53):
Nicole- Okay.
Amanda- And it was almostan entire task-to-book
length of time.
And it was really satisfying
to just like dig into the book
and just like put my head down,
and like keep going.
Nicole- Yeah, cool.Amanda- It was great.
Killian- I noticed, for me,I have to really be aware
of what the book is that I'm choosing
(11:14):
because if it's somethingthat's too involved,
I will just abandon whatI'm doing and sit down
and get very wrapped up in this story.
So it's gotta be something I can kind
of come in and out of a little bit.
But I also use audiobooks to fall asleep.
They're just ones thatI've read so many times.
Drew- Mm-hmm.Nicole- Sure.
Killian- That I can comein anywhere, and I know
what's going on.
Nicole- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Killian- So, it justdepends on what I'm doing.
(11:36):
Nicole- Definitely.Amanda- We aren't
big public transit peoplehere, but like if I was riding
the subway.Nicole- Oh, my gosh.
Drew- Oh, yeah.Nicole- Oh, my gosh.
I would be like crochetingand listening to a book.
Amanda- (laughs) Yeah.
Nicole- I would accomplish somany things, it'd be great.
Drew- One of my friends swears
by audiobooks, reads them all the time,
and we'll just sit athome on her couch playing
like mobile games whilelistening to the audiobooks.
(11:58):
Nicole- I can't do that.
There's just no way.(co-hosts laughing)
Killian- I've done some of the Cozy games.
The cozy managementgames that stress me out.
I can do them if I'mlistening to the audiobook.
(co-hosts laughing)
Drew- (laughs) The cozy management games
that stress me out. (laughs)
Killian- We've talked about this.
(everybody laughs)
(12:19):
Nicole- All right, well, let's see.
Do we have any favorite narrators
or favorite audiobooks
that we really love?
Killian- Can I talkabout a narration style?
Nicole- Sure.- Yes.
Killian- The "Full Cast"audiobook is one of my
favorite things.
Nicole- I love that too, I really do.
Killian- Because it's so good.
(12:42):
There are some narratorsthat do great voices
for every character,and that's amazing, too.
But really getting a different actor
for every major character,
or at least, you have likean actor who's doing two
or three different characters.Nicole- Mm-hmm.
Killian- It's so good
and so immersive.
The "Enchanted ForestChronicles" does that.
And that is one of my listen-to-on-repeat,
(13:02):
like to go to sleep series.
It is magical.
(Drew laughs)
Nicole- I think it like,specifically that "Full Cast,"
kind of, whole thingfor audio is important.
Specifically, personally,for me, if it's a book
that has a lot of different characters,
(13:23):
and keeping everybody straight,like these fantasy books
that have got like 42 characters,
and they're all from different things,
and you almost need likea glossary of characters
just to keep track of them.
Drew- And everyone'sname starts with an A.
Nicole- Yeah, yes, absolutely,so like perfect example,
"Game of Thrones."
I would've had a miserabletime reading those books
(13:43):
if I had not listened to, you know,
an audiobook version of it.
Or "Dune," which was, we'vetalked about "Dune" before,
and how difficult, like Icould not read that book
to save my life, but"Full Cast" recording,
and suddenly it all makes sense
because I can remember the voices.
I can't remember the characternames or what's going on
or who's cousin to who.Killian- (indistinct) So hard.
Nicole- Yeah, totally.
(14:05):
Drew- My problem withanswering your question is
that I don't have afavorite audiobook narrator
because I don't processthat as like a good thing.
Nicole- Okay.
Drew- Like I've never sought out
an audiobook reader orlistened to an audiobook
and said, "Hey, the readerdid a great job here."
If they are doing a passablejob or better, then cool.
(14:27):
I'm able to get into thebook, we're all good.
I only remember the bad ones.
Killian- Yeah.
Nicole- Oh, the bad ones, yeah.
I mean, there are definitelybad narrators, that's for sure.
Drew- There is a romance thatI read through audiobook.
I was just talking about thislike two days ago with Lauren
where the guy's normalspeaking voice was here,
and then one of the guys thathe read was a little higher,
(14:49):
but like still generallywithin the frame of a voice.
Nicole- Okay.Drew- And then,
the other person talked like this,
"And I wish this was an exaggeration."
(everybody laughs)
It was painful.
Amanda- How far did you get in the book?
Drew- To his first line. (laughs)
Amanda- Okay, and thenyou're like, "Nope, I'm out."
Drew- Yes.(co-hosts laughing)
Nicole- Wow.
(15:09):
Drew- To the first line oflike that character's speaking,
I was like, mm, mm-mm.
Amanda- So, you can go downthat route where it's terrible.
But like on the flip side,"Dreams of My Father,"
by Barack Obama, where he does all
of the different voicesin different accents.
Drew- Ooh.Amanda- Brilliant.
Nicole- Oh, wow.Amanda- I'm telling you,
it's so good because hedoes like his normal voice,
(15:34):
and then his like Indonesianaccent when he's in Indonesia,
the Kenyan accent when he's in Kenya.
Drew- Oh, yeah.Nicole- Wow.
Amanda- It's like really well done.
Nicole- And he's already got
a pretty great voice to begin with,
so that's pretty good, wow.
All right, well, I think, let's see
(15:55):
what genres translate betterthan others in terms of audio?
What do you guys think?
Drew- I think memoirs are a big one
because you can have theauthor read it themselves.
Nicole- And I love that so much.
Killian- Mm-hmm.
Nicole- I listened to "TheTao of Willie Nelson."
Amanda- Oh, nice.Nicole- On audio.
And Willie is so great.
He's so great, he'slike funny and charming,
(16:17):
and it's just, it's perfection.
So, I know there are abunch of other memoirs
that can do that too, so.
Amanda- Well, I was gonna say, I mean,
this is somewhat memoir,
but also going into comedy
'cause comedy's my other favorite genre.
Nicole- Oh, okay.Amanda- Is David Sedaris,
like any David Sedarisbook narrated by him,
(16:38):
which I think he's onlyhad narrated his own stuff,
is brilliant, I'm like cracking up.
He has all his like little inflections
and sort of like, willimitate someone's voice,
his parents or his sister,
or himself at a younger age.
And it's brilliant.
(16:58):
Nicole- I love that.
Nicole- Stephen Kinghas a book "On Writing",
which is just him writing about
what it's like to be a writer.
And he also narrates that,which is pretty great.
Stephen King's voice is notlike what you would consider
to be a great audiobook narrator voice,
(17:20):
but there's something abouthim reading his own work
that really makes it, I don't know,
special in a way, I don't know, so-
Killian- I think thatworks for some authors.
There are some authors where I've,
they've narrated theiraudiobooks, and I listened to 'em,
and I'm like, "It's fine."
Nicole- But it could have been better.
Killian- But it could have been better
with someone who like voice acting is
(17:41):
what they do, and everything like that.
And I think, now I've gottenpickier about narrators
because there's so many voice actors
that have come acrossmy TikTok For You page,
and I see them all like,they'll do lives of themselves,
like recording things,
and I'm just like, there'sso much good out there.
(18:03):
So now I'm really picky,and that's making my life
a little more difficultsometimes. (laughs)
Nicole- So bringing it back around
to like why audiobooks are important.
There's like, I do wannamention the intimacy
of being read to,
which I think is also definitely a benefit
(18:23):
of listening to audiobooks.
I know, for my kids, weread to them every day.
We constantly have a book lined up
that we're reading to them.
And I know that that's somethingthat they're probably going
to love as they get older.
They'll just, I mean, Iclearly can't read to them
for the rest of their lives,
but maybe somebody else, theycan find another narrator
(18:45):
or something to read books to them.
Drew- Yeah.Nicole- So, I don't know,
maybe that kind of goes back
to like oral tradition in a way.
Like that's a cozy thingfor human beings to listen
to someone else read to them.
Killian- Well, and I thinknow we stop reading to kids
so young a lot of the time.
It's, okay, you've learnedto read, you can read
for yourself now, and it'sstill nice to be read too.
(19:07):
Nicole- Oh, sure.
Killian- Drew and I wereactually in the same YA Lit class
in undergrad, and the professor read part
of a children's bookto the class every day
at the start of class.
Nicole- Oh, wow, that's wonderful.
Drew- That was super cute.Killian- That was so cool.
Nicole- Aww.
Drew- It was really, really cute.
Killian- That, and it was, youknow, being fully an adult,
it was my last year of college,
and just having that intro
(19:30):
into that class periodwas actually really nice.
It let us all kind of get settled in,
and it was one of my favorite classes.
It's actually the class thatmade me become a librarian.
Nicole- Okay, very cool.
Killian- So that class has done
a lot for me. (laughs)
Drew- Yeah.Nicole- Yeah.
Amanda- I think narrationcan be like soothing
if someone has like a really great voice.
Nicole- Oh, yeah.Amanda- I mean if you think
(19:51):
about like kindergarten,
and like a teacher is reading you a book
and they're like sing-songy,
kindergarten yoga teacher-type of voice.
(co-hosts laughing)
But then I also had aprofessor in college,
it was for an English literature class,
and he was this like skilled narrator.
(20:12):
And he just like wouldread us these long passages
of like Faulkner, and whatever,
and it was really powerful,
and you sort of get the sense,that like, no, this was meant
to be read aloud.
Nicole- Sure, sure, itmakes a big difference.
Killian- That's something, I think,
every Shakespeare class will tell you,
(20:33):
like anytime you take Shakespeare,like this was not made
to be read on pages in a book.
Nicole- Mm-hmm.
Killian- It's really not.Drew- No. (laughs)
Killian- Like, it's so much easier
to watch and listen to thanto read from paper pages.
Nicole- Yeah.Amanda- And before, like we
as humans all learn to read,there was just oral tradition.
(20:54):
So, I mean like maybe there is something
from an evolutionary standpoint to that.
But I think from an artistrystandpoint, absolutely.
Nicole- And also, I believe
that audiobooks havecome a really long way.
Like, from what I remember,even those little cassette tapes
that we would listen to,
like they were not exactly
a dramatic presentation of anything.
(21:15):
It was just a personwith a nice voice reading
what was on the page.
And now we have these narrators, you know,
and they have awards for people
that are audiobooknarrators that are so good.
But like keeping allthose characters straight,
and having the different voices,
and being able to do different accents.
(21:36):
I mean, I've listened toaudiobooks where there's like four
or five different accents
and it's amazing that thesepeople are able to do that.
It is like a true, true skill.
Killian- Voice actors willnever cease to amaze me.
Whether it's audiobooks,you also get, you know,
anything animated.Drew- Oh, God.
Killian- TV shows, movies,video games, any of it.
(21:57):
That's all voice acting.
And a lot of times, they'redoing audiobooks in addition
to doing these different roles,
and it brings a story
to life in such a special way, no matter
what medium it's in.
Nicole- Mm-hmm.- Definitely.
Killian- So, and it's wild ifyou start looking up names,
(22:19):
the different characterspeople have played.
Drew- Oh, yeah.Killian- And you're like,
"Wait, I didn't know soand so was this and this.
It's, couldn't be me."
Like I have a single voice(laughs) and that's all I got.
But-Drew- The ones
that amaze me are the ones
that are doing multiplevoices in the same show.
Like, you get like aSeth MacFarlane, who goes
(22:40):
and does an interviewand just drops into all
of his different characters.Amanda- Oh, yeah.
Nicole- That's amazing.- Yeah.
Drew- It's hilarious.
Nicole- Yeah, totally.
All right, well,
I hope that this podcast todaymakes you all wanna go out
and listen to an audiobook
because we think that they're important,
(23:02):
and definitely, it isabsolutely 100% reading.
It is really reading.
And we'll talk to you next time.
Thank you for joining us for this episode
of "Distracted Librarians."
Drew- Many thanks to BCTV fortheir support in recording,
editing, and releasing this podcast,
(23:23):
and to the friends of the library
for sponsoring closedcaptioning on every episode.
Killian- If you have any questions
or suggestions, feel free to reach out
to us at distracted@btpl.org.
Amanda- Until then,keep those pages turning
and those screens lighting up.
We'll catch you in the next episode.
Emily- The views and opinions expressed
(23:44):
in "The DistractedLibrarians" Podcast do not
necessarily reflect thoseof Bloomfield Township,
Bloomfield Township Public Library,
Bloomfield Community Television,
the Birmingham Area CableBoard, or its producers
or production staff.
Nicole - Hey there, welcome to
"The Distracted Librarians" Podcast.
We are your friendly neighborhoodbookworms with a penchant
for all things pop culture.
Drew - Picture this asour digital campfire,
where we dive into our latest obsessions,
analyze our favorite distractions,
and rediscover the joy of reading.
Killian - Whether you're amedia enthusiast, a book lover,
(00:21):
or just need a break from the daily grind,
you've come to the right spot.
Amanda - So, kick back, relax,
and get delightfully distracted with us.
Nicole - Hey, everybody.
Today on "The Distracted Librarians,"
we are going to be talking about
In Defense of Audiobooksfrom a Library Standpoint.
I'm Nicole.
Amanda - I'm Amanda.Killian - I'm Killian.
(00:43):
Drew - And I'm Drew.
Nicole- All right, so do you guys remember
the first audiobook
that you ever listened to, andwhat did you think about it?
Killian- I don't remembera specific audiobook
because I was so young.
But when I was a kid, I had thelittle Disney books on tape.
It came with a little paperback,and the cassette tape,
(01:04):
and the tape, littlebright colored tape player.
And I loved those.(Drew laughs)
I, to this day, remember thesound it made to turn the page.
And I remember just like beingsprawled on my bedroom floor
with one of those playingtape and reading along.
And, yeah, so I loved themfrom day one. (laughs)
Drew- Wait, was it like a musical chime
(01:25):
to turn the page?Killian- Yeah.
Drew- Really?Killian- Yeah, there were,
at the start, it was always this,
you know, "When you hearthis sound, turn the page,"
and it was this little like magicy sound.
I can't recreate it, or I would,
but I know what, like Ihear it in my head. (laughs)
Drew- No, sing it immediately.Killian- No.
(everybody laughs)
Nicole- I definitely had that too.
I had a Care Bears taperecorder or tape deck,
and I had a bunch of tapes and books also.
(01:48):
We have them as mediakits in the library now.
Of course, they're on CD,they're not tapes anymore.
But that was like my parents'way of not having to read
to me every single night.
They would just hand me atape, and I would go and listen
and flip my pages myself.
It was so much fun.
Drew- Yeah, mine was the first"Harry Potter," such that,
(02:09):
that is now, but it waslike a 10-cassette box.
Nicole- Oh, my gosh, the cassettes.
Killian- Yeah.Nicole- Yes, it was huge.
Drew- Yep.Amanda- If you're going back
in time to cassettes, thenthat was like formative years.
Nicole- Mm-hmm.
Amanda- I think I missed that era
'cause I didn't reallyget into them until CDs
and I had a car that hada CD player in there,
(02:32):
and I would carry aroundthese like multi-CD books,
and there wasn't onethat's really significant.
But I do remember goingthrough, flipping them
through the different six CDs to listen
to a novel in my car.
And that was like reallygold as a high schooler
(02:53):
or a college studentand you have no money,
and so you're just goingto the library to get CDs
for music and audiobooks, so good.
Nicole- Sure.
Killian- My cars were alwaystoo far behind. (indistinct)
(everybody laughs)
Nicole- So I used to work at a bookstore,
and I remember seeing, you know,
we had the books on tape,and they were so expensive.
(03:15):
I mean, so expensive, likehundreds of dollars for them.
And so it's crazy to me,like, they were not affordable
to me as a teenager
or as a young, you know,20-something person.
Amanda- No.
Nicole- So going to the library was
absolutely the way to go.
There was no way I could afford the books
that I wanted to listen to.
Drew- Yeah, going off yourstory for a second, Amanda.
(03:37):
In my first car, I had oneof those fancy tape player
or disc players where itwas like the six-CD holder.
Amanda- Oh, yeah.
Drew- That went into the console.
Amanda- Oh, nice.Drew- As opposed to the trunk.
Nicole- It was a Cara-Drew- As opposed to the trunk.
Yeah.
Nicole- It's a Carousel. (laughs)
Drew- The Carousel, thank you.
Amanda- Did you have toget it installed yourself?
(03:57):
Because I feel like that was not standard.
Maybe it was.
Drew- It was standard in, I guess, 2002,
which was the era that that car came from.
But I remember putting in, itwas like, obviously pre-Libby,
putting in the first six"Game of Thrones" discs.
Nicole- Oh, my gosh.Drew- And then not having
to change the discs out as frequently.
(04:18):
Nicole- Yeah.Amanda- Luxury.
Nicole- Yeah.Drew- Peak loss.
(everybody laughs)
Killian- See, I didnot have a CD player in
my car until 2011.
Nicole- Okay.
Killian- Because Idrove a '92 before that,
and so I had nothing.
I couldn't listen to audiobooks in my car.
I got my car with a CD player,
and then it was like,yes, I can do audiobooks.
Great, of course, at thatpoint, I was starting
(04:39):
to get into libraries.
I was starting to get like, okay,
Libby's around, whichwasn't Libby at the time,
but I had no way to listen to that
when everyone else had (laughs)Bluetooth in their cars.
Nicole- Yeah.Killian- So I'm still behind.
I still don't haveBluetooth in my car, but...
(co-hosts laughing)
Nicole- Well, let'stalk about a little bit
of the reason why we'redoing this specific podcast,
(05:02):
In Defense of Audiobooks.
So, how are we, like, whatare some of the things
that we see about audiobooks
that we're defending them against?
Drew- That they're,quote-unquote, not real.
Nicole- Or not real reading?Killian- It's not reading.
Nicole- It's not reading.Amanda- Or subpar
to a physical book.
Drew- Yes.Nicole- Yeah, yeah,
which is kind of crazy, right?
I mean, I think for us it's crazy.
(05:25):
Audiobooks aren't real reading.
I wonder where that like comes from.
Killian- I think just from avery literal interpretation
of reading being a visual practice,
which is so wild
because, for accessibilityreasons, there's plenty
of reasons someone can't read
(05:45):
a print book with their eyes.
Whether it is because they can't see it,
or you know, the font is too small,
or they can't hold an open book.
I, one of my first libraryjobs, I had an internship
with the Wayne CountyRegional Library for the blind
(06:05):
and physically handicapped.
Nicole- Okay.
Killian- And that was involved,
you know, sending out,
we were just decommissioningthe tape players
and the cassettes while I was there,
but they had been sendingcassette players out
to folks who couldn't read print books
for whatever reason.
And we would send the players,
(06:27):
and then they would have awhole list populated of books,
and we would pull them from the shelves,
and they'd go out via the post office,
we'd send 'em every day.
And they switched over to a USB cartridge.
Nicole- Okay.
Killian- But yeah, it was, you know,
there's so many reasons
that people were a part of that program
and it wasn't justbecause they were blind,
(06:50):
or you know, it was, couldn't pick it up,
couldn't hold a book.
So many reasons, and Iwould never tell any of them
that's not reading a book.
Nicole- Right.
Killian- So many ofthem read so many books.
Nicole- Exactly, yeah.(everybody laughs)
Killian- We'd send them like five a week.
Nicole- And what an interesting job.
I mean, when we thinkabout public libraries,
and that's such a specializedlibrary, that's very cool.
(07:13):
Killian- And that service is still around.
It's just not quite as isolated
as that library itself was.
But you see the Braille andTalking Book Library as part
of a lot of different public libraries.
Nicole- Cool.
Drew- Yeah, my personal hot-take theory is
that it really is just afailing of the English language.
Why we have this debate.Nicole- Mm-hmm.
(07:35):
Drew- Because we havethe same word of reading
to like process words onthe page as we do to read,
to like absorb this book.Nicole- Mm-hmm.
Drew- And that's the disconnect.
Nicole- Sure.Drew- And that other languages
don't have this issue.
Killian- I love thelinguistic standpoint here.
(everybody laughs)
Nicole- Well, I thinkit's important to think
about audiobooks specificallyas a way to support literacy,
(07:59):
especially when we lookat kids and families.
You know, for Killian and I to remember
like actually reading a book by listening
to the tape and lookingat the words on the page,
that was a way to kind ofbuild a love for books that,
you know, that we have now.
So, for kids and families,especially for children
(08:22):
that might not actually bereally reading yet, it is a way
to kind of connect the word to the sound,
and push literacy in a way.
So I think that they're invaluable
for the children's department.
Killian- It really supports like
learning correct pronunciation
of things, too.
There's, it's kind
of a meme on social media aboutlike the words that I never,
(08:44):
I didn't pronounce correctlybecause I only ever read them.
But that's such a thing.
Nicole- Oh, yeah.Killian- And so,
it's the same thing with names,
especially in fantasy audiobooks.
Like being able (laughs)
to hear someone say it, a game-changer.
Nicole- Yeah, totally.
Drew- Oh, I do that constantlywith like high-fantasy books
that I get.
I'll get the audiobook from Libby
(09:05):
and listen to it for likethe first hour just to get
how they pronounce thename of the country.
Because it's always weird,
there are always like-Nicole- 15 syllables.
Drew- Two vowels for everysix consonants, it's nonsense.
Nicole- Oh, my goodness.
Killian- Like, I'm sure there's a way
this goes together.
I don't have it withinmy grasp of language.
Drew- Yeah. (laughs)(everybody laughs)
Nicole- Totally, wow.
(09:26):
So audiobooks boost vocabulary
and comprehension, especiallyfor kids, ESL learners,
and neurodivergent readers,which I think those,
that's really important also.
You know, I specifically listen
to audiobooks in veryspecific parts of my life.
Usually, it's during my commuteor while I'm walking my dog.
(09:48):
So, and I know that you guys may
also have your special timewhen you listen to audiobooks.
Drew- I can only do audiobooks in the car,
and it makes me very sad.
Nicole- Okay.- Yeah. (laughs)
Nicole- Yeah, I know peoplethat will like do their chores,
like their household choresand listen to audiobooks,
and I'm like, "Oh, my gosh,my kids' socks would be
like in the refrigerator if I did that."
(10:09):
Killian- That was literallyme on Saturday, Sunday,
Drew, I was messagingyou, which day was that?
Drew- Sunday.(everybody laughs)
Killian- Sometime this weekend.
I was like, "Okay, I have a to-do list
and I am overwhelmed by it,but I need to get it done."
I have an audiobook and a dream, let's go.
And so I was like,noise-canceling headphones,
(10:30):
and I had my audiobook going,
and I'm like, okay, gottaclean out the fridge, gotta,
you know, take the garbage out.
And I got most of it done, so. (laughs)
Nicole- Good.Amanda- I think if you
ever have a really bigtask, like I listened
to an audiobook that wasa little over six hours,
while clearing out the garage.
(10:53):
Nicole- Okay.
Amanda- And it was almostan entire task-to-book
length of time.
And it was really satisfying
to just like dig into the book
and just like put my head down,
and like keep going.
Nicole- Yeah, cool.Amanda- It was great.
Killian- I noticed, for me,I have to really be aware
of what the book is that I'm choosing
(11:14):
because if it's somethingthat's too involved,
I will just abandon whatI'm doing and sit down
and get very wrapped up in this story.
So it's gotta be something I can kind
of come in and out of a little bit.
But I also use audiobooks to fall asleep.
They're just ones thatI've read so many times.
Drew- Mm-hmm.Nicole- Sure.
Killian- That I can comein anywhere, and I know
what's going on.
Nicole- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Killian- So, it justdepends on what I'm doing.
(11:36):
Nicole- Definitely.Amanda- We aren't
big public transit peoplehere, but like if I was riding
the subway.Nicole- Oh, my gosh.
Drew- Oh, yeah.Nicole- Oh, my gosh.
I would be like crochetingand listening to a book.
Amanda- (laughs) Yeah.
Nicole- I would accomplish somany things, it'd be great.
Drew- One of my friends swears
by audiobooks, reads them all the time,
and we'll just sit athome on her couch playing
like mobile games whilelistening to the audiobooks.
(11:58):
Nicole- I can't do that.
There's just no way.(co-hosts laughing)
Killian- I've done some of the Cozy games.
The cozy managementgames that stress me out.
I can do them if I'mlistening to the audiobook.
(co-hosts laughing)
Drew- (laughs) The cozy management games
that stress me out. (laughs)
Killian- We've talked about this.
(everybody laughs)
(12:19):
Nicole- All right, well, let's see.
Do we have any favorite narrators
or favorite audiobooks
that we really love?
Killian- Can I talkabout a narration style?
Nicole- Sure.- Yes.
Killian- The "Full Cast"audiobook is one of my
favorite things.
Nicole- I love that too, I really do.
Killian- Because it's so good.
(12:42):
There are some narratorsthat do great voices
for every character,and that's amazing, too.
But really getting a different actor
for every major character,
or at least, you have likean actor who's doing two
or three different characters.Nicole- Mm-hmm.
Killian- It's so good
and so immersive.
The "Enchanted ForestChronicles" does that.
And that is one of my listen-to-on-repeat,
(13:02):
like to go to sleep series.
It is magical.
(Drew laughs)
Nicole- I think it like,specifically that "Full Cast,"
kind of, whole thingfor audio is important.
Specifically, personally,for me, if it's a book
that has a lot of different characters,
(13:23):
and keeping everybody straight,like these fantasy books
that have got like 42 characters,
and they're all from different things,
and you almost need likea glossary of characters
just to keep track of them.
Drew- And everyone'sname starts with an A.
Nicole- Yeah, yes, absolutely,so like perfect example,
"Game of Thrones."
I would've had a miserabletime reading those books
(13:43):
if I had not listened to, you know,
an audiobook version of it.
Or "Dune," which was, we'vetalked about "Dune" before,
and how difficult, like Icould not read that book
to save my life, but"Full Cast" recording,
and suddenly it all makes sense
because I can remember the voices.
I can't remember the characternames or what's going on
or who's cousin to who.Killian- (indistinct) So hard.
Nicole- Yeah, totally.
(14:05):
Drew- My problem withanswering your question is
that I don't have afavorite audiobook narrator
because I don't processthat as like a good thing.
Nicole- Okay.
Drew- Like I've never sought out
an audiobook reader orlistened to an audiobook
and said, "Hey, the readerdid a great job here."
If they are doing a passablejob or better, then cool.
(14:27):
I'm able to get into thebook, we're all good.
I only remember the bad ones.
Killian- Yeah.
Nicole- Oh, the bad ones, yeah.
I mean, there are definitelybad narrators, that's for sure.
Drew- There is a romance thatI read through audiobook.
I was just talking about thislike two days ago with Lauren
where the guy's normalspeaking voice was here,
and then one of the guys thathe read was a little higher,
(14:49):
but like still generallywithin the frame of a voice.
Nicole- Okay.Drew- And then,
the other person talked like this,
"And I wish this was an exaggeration."
(everybody laughs)
It was painful.
Amanda- How far did you get in the book?
Drew- To his first line. (laughs)
Amanda- Okay, and thenyou're like, "Nope, I'm out."
Drew- Yes.(co-hosts laughing)
Nicole- Wow.
(15:09):
Drew- To the first line oflike that character's speaking,
I was like, mm, mm-mm.
Amanda- So, you can go downthat route where it's terrible.
But like on the flip side,"Dreams of My Father,"
by Barack Obama, where he does all
of the different voicesin different accents.
Drew- Ooh.Amanda- Brilliant.
Nicole- Oh, wow.Amanda- I'm telling you,
it's so good because hedoes like his normal voice,
(15:34):
and then his like Indonesianaccent when he's in Indonesia,
the Kenyan accent when he's in Kenya.
Drew- Oh, yeah.Nicole- Wow.
Amanda- It's like really well done.
Nicole- And he's already got
a pretty great voice to begin with,
so that's pretty good, wow.
All right, well, I think, let's see
(15:55):
what genres translate betterthan others in terms of audio?
What do you guys think?
Drew- I think memoirs are a big one
because you can have theauthor read it themselves.
Nicole- And I love that so much.
Killian- Mm-hmm.
Nicole- I listened to "TheTao of Willie Nelson."
Amanda- Oh, nice.Nicole- On audio.
And Willie is so great.
He's so great, he'slike funny and charming,
(16:17):
and it's just, it's perfection.
So, I know there are abunch of other memoirs
that can do that too, so.
Amanda- Well, I was gonna say, I mean,
this is somewhat memoir,
but also going into comedy
'cause comedy's my other favorite genre.
Nicole- Oh, okay.Amanda- Is David Sedaris,
like any David Sedarisbook narrated by him,
(16:38):
which I think he's onlyhad narrated his own stuff,
is brilliant, I'm like cracking up.
He has all his like little inflections
and sort of like, willimitate someone's voice,
his parents or his sister,
or himself at a younger age.
And it's brilliant.
(16:58):
Nicole- I love that.
Nicole- Stephen Kinghas a book "On Writing",
which is just him writing about
what it's like to be a writer.
And he also narrates that,which is pretty great.
Stephen King's voice is notlike what you would consider
to be a great audiobook narrator voice,
(17:20):
but there's something abouthim reading his own work
that really makes it, I don't know,
special in a way, I don't know, so-
Killian- I think thatworks for some authors.
There are some authors where I've,
they've narrated theiraudiobooks, and I listened to 'em,
and I'm like, "It's fine."
Nicole- But it could have been better.
Killian- But it could have been better
with someone who like voice acting is
(17:41):
what they do, and everything like that.
And I think, now I've gottenpickier about narrators
because there's so many voice actors
that have come acrossmy TikTok For You page,
and I see them all like,they'll do lives of themselves,
like recording things,
and I'm just like, there'sso much good out there.
(18:03):
So now I'm really picky,and that's making my life
a little more difficultsometimes. (laughs)
Nicole- So bringing it back around
to like why audiobooks are important.
There's like, I do wannamention the intimacy
of being read to,
which I think is also definitely a benefit
(18:23):
of listening to audiobooks.
I know, for my kids, weread to them every day.
We constantly have a book lined up
that we're reading to them.
And I know that that's somethingthat they're probably going
to love as they get older.
They'll just, I mean, Iclearly can't read to them
for the rest of their lives,
but maybe somebody else, theycan find another narrator
(18:45):
or something to read books to them.
Drew- Yeah.Nicole- So, I don't know,
maybe that kind of goes back
to like oral tradition in a way.
Like that's a cozy thingfor human beings to listen
to someone else read to them.
Killian- Well, and I thinknow we stop reading to kids
so young a lot of the time.
It's, okay, you've learnedto read, you can read
for yourself now, and it'sstill nice to be read too.
(19:07):
Nicole- Oh, sure.
Killian- Drew and I wereactually in the same YA Lit class
in undergrad, and the professor read part
of a children's bookto the class every day
at the start of class.
Nicole- Oh, wow, that's wonderful.
Drew- That was super cute.Killian- That was so cool.
Nicole- Aww.
Drew- It was really, really cute.
Killian- That, and it was, youknow, being fully an adult,
it was my last year of college,
and just having that intro
(19:30):
into that class periodwas actually really nice.
It let us all kind of get settled in,
and it was one of my favorite classes.
It's actually the class thatmade me become a librarian.
Nicole- Okay, very cool.
Killian- So that class has done
a lot for me. (laughs)
Drew- Yeah.Nicole- Yeah.
Amanda- I think narrationcan be like soothing
if someone has like a really great voice.
Nicole- Oh, yeah.Amanda- I mean if you think
(19:51):
about like kindergarten,
and like a teacher is reading you a book
and they're like sing-songy,
kindergarten yoga teacher-type of voice.
(co-hosts laughing)
But then I also had aprofessor in college,
it was for an English literature class,
and he was this like skilled narrator.
(20:12):
And he just like wouldread us these long passages
of like Faulkner, and whatever,
and it was really powerful,
and you sort of get the sense,that like, no, this was meant
to be read aloud.
Nicole- Sure, sure, itmakes a big difference.
Killian- That's something, I think,
every Shakespeare class will tell you,
(20:33):
like anytime you take Shakespeare,like this was not made
to be read on pages in a book.
Nicole- Mm-hmm.
Killian- It's really not.Drew- No. (laughs)
Killian- Like, it's so much easier
to watch and listen to thanto read from paper pages.
Nicole- Yeah.Amanda- And before, like we
as humans all learn to read,there was just oral tradition.
(20:54):
So, I mean like maybe there is something
from an evolutionary standpoint to that.
But I think from an artistrystandpoint, absolutely.
Nicole- And also, I believe
that audiobooks havecome a really long way.
Like, from what I remember,even those little cassette tapes
that we would listen to,
like they were not exactly
a dramatic presentation of anything.
(21:15):
It was just a personwith a nice voice reading
what was on the page.
And now we have these narrators, you know,
and they have awards for people
that are audiobooknarrators that are so good.
But like keeping allthose characters straight,
and having the different voices,
and being able to do different accents.
(21:36):
I mean, I've listened toaudiobooks where there's like four
or five different accents
and it's amazing that thesepeople are able to do that.
It is like a true, true skill.
Killian- Voice actors willnever cease to amaze me.
Whether it's audiobooks,you also get, you know,
anything animated.Drew- Oh, God.
Killian- TV shows, movies,video games, any of it.
(21:57):
That's all voice acting.
And a lot of times, they'redoing audiobooks in addition
to doing these different roles,
and it brings a story
to life in such a special way, no matter
what medium it's in.
Nicole- Mm-hmm.- Definitely.
Killian- So, and it's wild ifyou start looking up names,
(22:19):
the different characterspeople have played.
Drew- Oh, yeah.Killian- And you're like,
"Wait, I didn't know soand so was this and this.
It's, couldn't be me."
Like I have a single voice(laughs) and that's all I got.
But-Drew- The ones
that amaze me are the ones
that are doing multiplevoices in the same show.
Like, you get like aSeth MacFarlane, who goes
(22:40):
and does an interviewand just drops into all
of his different characters.Amanda- Oh, yeah.
Nicole- That's amazing.- Yeah.
Drew- It's hilarious.
Nicole- Yeah, totally.
All right, well,
I hope that this podcast todaymakes you all wanna go out
and listen to an audiobook
because we think that they're important,
(23:02):
and definitely, it isabsolutely 100% reading.
It is really reading.
And we'll talk to you next time.
Thank you for joining us for this episode
of "Distracted Librarians."
Drew- Many thanks to BCTV fortheir support in recording,
editing, and releasing this podcast,
(23:23):
and to the friends of the library
for sponsoring closedcaptioning on every episode.
Killian- If you have any questions
or suggestions, feel free to reach out
to us at distracted@btpl.org.
Amanda- Until then,keep those pages turning
and those screens lighting up.
We'll catch you in the next episode.
Emily- The views and opinions expressed
(23:44):
in "The DistractedLibrarians" Podcast do not
necessarily reflect thoseof Bloomfield Township,
Bloomfield Township Public Library,
Bloomfield Community Television,
the Birmingham Area CableBoard, or its producers
or production staff.
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