Weave a Narrative Out of Life Experiences (Memoirs)

Did you know we read non-fiction too?? On this new episode, Amanda, Drew, and Killian discuss a few of our favorite memoirs and autobiographies (turns out there IS a difference!), memoirs we consider to be classics, and some of the unique benefits and interesting formats that the genre can provide.

Want to join the conversation? Email us at [e-mail]

Many thanks to BCTV for their support in recording, editing, and releasing this podcast; and to the Friends of the Library for sponsoring closed captioning on every episode.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
- (Nicole) Hey there, welcome to The
Distracted Librarians podcast.
We are your friendlyneighborhood bookworms
with a penchant forall things pop culture.
- (Drew) Picture thisas our digital campfire,
where we dive into our latest obsessions,
analyze our favorite distractions,
and rediscover the joy of reading.
- (Killian) Whether you're amedia enthusiast, a book lover,

(00:21):
or just need a break from the daily grind,
you've come to the right spot.
- (Amanda) So kick back, relax
and get delightfully distracted with us.
- (Amanda) Hello, today on
The Distracted Librarians podcast,
we are going to talk about memoirs,
one of my favorite genresnear and dear to my heart.
My name is Amanda.

(00:41):
- (Killian) I'm Killian.
- (Drew) And I'm Drew.
- (Amanda) So what is a memoir?
- (Drew) I had to look this up last night.
(group laughs)
Like, obviously I've knownthe term for years and years,
but the first thing that cameup when I searched it is,
what is the difference between a memoir

(01:03):
and an autobiography?
I had no idea.
So apparently, I will run theGoogle search on this one.
So a memoir and anautobiography are similar,
in that they're both the author
talking about aspects of their own life.
But autobiographies tendto be a lot more linear

(01:23):
and fact-based, whereas memoirs will
weave a narrative out oftheir life experiences
and try and, you know, glean meaning
from individual bits of it.
- (Amanda) Yeah, my favoritepart about memoirs is,
because they are lookingat their own memories

(01:45):
and talking about parts of their life,
I think it gives a mediumfor prose to really shine.
So if an author is an amazing writer,
they're gonna really lean into that
and really use their own life as a avenue

(02:05):
to display their writing,or maybe vice versa.
But I think that to me,memoirs feel more literary,
more interesting, moreexperimental than an autobiography.
- (Killian) That definitionreally helps explain why
I do have memoirs that I've read,
I don't have autobiographiesthat I've read.

(02:26):
(group laughs)
- (Drew) I'm quicklyrealizing that as well.
- (Killian) Because like,
as interested as I am in history
and in what people's lives are like,
I'm much more interestedin people's interpretations
of their own lives
than of just the facts and dates

(02:47):
and things like that.
It's history class lookingat history immersively
versus history classlooking at a list of dates
and people's names.
And one is simply muchmore interesting to me
than the other.
- (Drew) And it also gives them the chance
to sort of cherry-pick their own lives
to find the through-lines

(03:09):
of the things that are relevant to them
or relevant to themwithin this given topic.
You know, one of my favoriteswas "Taste" by Stanley Tucci.
Why did I say Anthony? Hello?
(group laughs)
"Taste" by Stanley Tucci.
And this is him retellingthe events of his life,
starting the childhood andthrough his whole acting career,

(03:32):
through his relationship with food.
And it's because when he was writing this,
he had his oral cancerthat he was dealing with
and wasn't sure if he wasgoing to be able to eat
like a normal human or, you know,
enjoy food in the same way again.
And it made him allnostalgic for all of the ways

(03:53):
in which food has impactedhis life his entire time
without really realizing thatwas one of the through-lines
of how his family showed loveand how he found comfort.
Really interesting.
And tons of recipes throughout,
which I have not tried one of,
but I wrote down three of them.

(04:14):
- (Killian) That's the first step.
- (Drew) We have hope forthe future on this book
that I read three years ago.
(group laughs)
- (Amanda) Yeah, I sort of like "Taste."
I think that memoirs can give you a window
into a specific subject.
So in this case food,but Italian food, right?
I haven't read it yet.

(04:36):
- (Drew) Yes, Italian food.
- (Amanda) I read a bookcalled "Strange Situation:
A Mother's Journey intothe Science of Attachment"
by Bethany Saltman.
It's one of those that's border memoir.
It's in the 600s.

(04:56):
- (Drew) Oh.
- (Amanda) But I reallythink it's a memoir
because she uses her own life
and her own concerns about her attachment
to her parents and her mother.
And then, well, what does itmean if I am not well attached
or have disorganizedattachment to my parents?

(05:17):
And what does that mean for myrelationship to my daughter?
Attachment being attachment theory,
in terms of how children bondwith a primary caregiver.
So what she ended up doing
is highly researching Mary Ainsworth,
which was a woman in, I believe, the 1950s

(05:39):
who was a pioneer on attachment theory
and did these experiments.
And she called them the strange situation
where she was in Africa,
and I think she might've been in Africa
because of her husband's work as well.
But she had the opportunity to study

(06:00):
women, mothers, and children.
And what happens
when you put them inthis strange situation,
which is the case where youhave a mother walk away.
So it might just be notwalking away for a long time,
it's sort of reminiscent of

(06:22):
school drop off.
It's like, does the kid start screaming?
Do they start crying?
Do they just like go and be by themselves?
And what is the implicationfor the attachment
to that primary caregiver,
and how is that gonna affect their ability
to form bonds and feel safewithin that relationship?

(06:46):
Fascinating, fascinating things.
I think attachment is one of those things
that is relatable to anyone.
- (Drew) Yes.
- (Amanda) 'Cause, right,we all were children
and we all had a primary caregiver.
The way she presents it though
through the lens of her own life,

(07:07):
I think, is really fascinating.
And also her own worries about, like,
am I bonded with my child properly?
I'm sure a lot ofparents worry about that.
Highly, highly recommendthe book "Strange Situation"
by Bethany Saltman.
It's like the memoir was a carrier

(07:29):
for research into attachment theory.
- (Killian) I tend to notbe a big memoir reader.
While yes, I read morememoirs than autobiographies,
the memoirs, you know,prepping for this episode,
going through my Goodreadsmemoirs so often,
like, there's so little on here,

(07:49):
and so much of it is from a while ago.
I tend to listen toaudiobook versions of them.
They tend to be the audiobook
read by the person who wrote it.
- (Amanda) I love that.
- (Killian) I did start listening to one
because I was like, "We'regonna be doing this episode."
So I'm in the middle of"The Third Gilmore Girl"
by Kelly Bishop.
- (Amanda) Oh, how is it?- (Killian) And it's so good.

(08:12):
- (Drew) Yes.
- (Killian) You know, andthat's the thing with this list,
is it's mostly celebrity memoirs.
It's Kelly Bishop, it's Lauren Graham,
Amy Poehler, Tina Fey.
That's my list from thelast decade of reading.
It's people who I'minterested in the things

(08:34):
they've worked on.
And so then I'm like,
"Okay, tell me aboutyour behind the scenes."
And then you get more of theirlife because it's a memoir
and they're talking aboutmore than just that thing.
So I am just, like I said,partway through this one.
And she talked about dancing in Las Vegas
and now talking about making the shift

(08:54):
from being a chorus dancer on Broadway
to auditioning forprincipal roles in shows.
And just giving that little bit of insight
into a world that I'm verymuch not in, never have been.
Love the product.
I will go see a Broadway show
if I'm ever actually in New York,
but like I see shows here all the time.
And seeing just what that process is like,

(09:16):
what that world is like
since I'm not gonnaever actually be in it,
has been really fun
because I so thoroughly willattach people to characters.
I've seen Kelly Bishopin more than one thing,
more than just "Gilmore Girls."
She's still Emily Gilmore,
which I think sheacknowledges with the title.

(09:36):
- (Drew) Oh yeah.
- (Killian) And it's like I'm sitting down
with Emily Gilmore
and hearing the storyof this fabulous life
that has nothing to dowith "Gilmore Girls,"
but it's still EmilyGilmore telling me this,
and that's a lot of fun for me.
- (Drew) Well, one of my recent fixations,
as was yours, is "Wicked."
- (Killian) Yeap.
- (Drew) So the mostrecent memoir that I read
was "Viewfinder" by John M. Chu.

(09:58):
And very little of ithad to do with "Wicked,"
it was more about hisSilicon Valley upbringing
and then his entrance into the film world.
He was under the wing ofSteven Spielberg for a bit.
And then, you know, as technology advances
and his childhood world collides
with all of the ways technology

(10:20):
intermingles itself into the film industry
and Hollywood in general,
the ways in which that'saffected his view of both.
- (Amanda) Can I ask a dumb question?
- (Drew) Yeah.
- (Amanda) Who's John M. Chu?
- (Drew) He was the directorof the "Wicked" movie.
He also directed "Crazy Rich Asians."

(10:40):
- (Amanda) Okay, cool.
- (Killian) Which is alsoa favorite movie of yours.
- (Drew) Which is also afavorite movie of mine.
"Crazy Rich Asians" ison the list of movies
I've seen so many times,
they work well as backgroundnoise when I read.
- (Killian) When we livedtogether, I would just walk in
and that was one of the movies
that would be on the TVevery once in a while.
Like, okay,
- (Drew) Drew's in the mood again.

(11:01):
(group laughs)
- (Amanda) So are thereany classic memoirs
that you think are of note from history
or from a standpoint that is a must-read?
- (Drew) You know, Ithink there are always
going to be those,
you know, "The Glass Castle"is one that, you know,
I always remember reallyliking in high school.

(11:22):
I did not like much requiredreading in high school.
and "Glass Castle" was one that I remember
breaking through for me really well.
Unfortunately, I don't remember, you know,
much of what was in itat this point in my life.
- (Amanda) That's okay.
It put you on a path to love literature.
It's all right.- (Drew) Exactly.
And it gives me things to reread

(11:43):
once I decide to go that route.
- (Killian) So it's my turnto ask a stupid question.
What are classic memoirs?
Like I don't--
- (Amanda) Sure.
- (Killian) I'm unfamiliar with what
memoirs would be classics.
- (Amanda) I think of it assomething that had, you know,
maybe older, maybe not, buthad historical significance.
So "Night" by Elie Wiesel comes to mind,

(12:09):
showed a firsthand experienceof concentration camps
during World War II.
The other one that again, Ithink, was required reading,
but I remember loving itand sort of like really,
for once, loving my assigned reading
was "Things We Carried" by Tim O'Brien,
which talked about the Vietnam War,

(12:32):
also super important because,looking back at those times,
there wasn't this, like, very direct
and instantaneous reporting of wars.
So to read a memoir after the fact was,
well, I mean there was more instantaneous

(12:53):
with the Vietnam War becauseof TV being so prevalent.
But to be able to seethe firsthand experience
of that person and what wassort of like actually going on
on the ground is super important.
- (Killian) I may have fullyforgotten that "Night" existed

(13:14):
because I'm sitting here going,I don't think I read memoirs
in any of my like English classes.
I really can't think of any.
And then you said that, and I'm like,
no, we read that in myninth grade English class.
But I also try to blockthat English class out
because it is the one Englishclass that I truly despised
not related to "Night," fullyrelated to other things.

(13:35):
It was not a good experience.
- (Amanda) I'm sorry.
- (Killian) But I was like,"Oh yeah, I did read that.
That is a thing."
- (Drew) Another one that Itend to think of as a classic
is "Into Thin Air" by Jon Krakauer.
He was a climber
who climbed Mount Everest in the mid '90s
in a really, really violentseason in terms of the weather

(13:57):
and just conditions that existed there.
And talked about his individual climb
in the midst of talking about the history
and everything else that happened
within that small set of years.
- (Amanda) This is nothistorically-significant,
but being a phenomenon, "Eat, Pray, Love."

(14:18):
- (Drew) Honestly.
(group laughs)
- (Amanda) I was not alibrarian at the time,
but I remember working,
being at work and having a customer,
like, tell me I needed to read this book.
And I was like, "Ah, okay."
And I read it and I loved it.

(14:41):
And I was probably 21 at the time,
and the customer was probably in her 40s.
And we both loved this same book,
which I think is a really niceway to connect with someone.
But that was, I mean,definitely a phenomenon.
I feel like it was--
- (Drew) It was everywhere.
- (Amanda) It was everywhere.

(15:01):
It was on library bookshelves,
it was then in every bookstore.
And then also as beingsomeone who has spent
many hours thrifting,
that book was always atthe thrift store on a book
and you could buy it for 25 cents.
And of course made into amovie, et cetera, et cetera.
- (Killian) I've seen many copies of it

(15:22):
go through like library booksales and things like that too.
- (Drew) And it's alsosomething that's just been
so riffed on an meme-ified since.
That you're never going to be able
to deny its cultural impact.
- (Killian) I don't think my brain ever
connected it as a memoir.
- (Drew) Yeah?- (Killian) Yeah.
And like I'm sitting here going,
obviously it is, but I don't.

(15:47):
That just clicked.
- (Amanda) Also fromthe memoir standpoint,
that generally someone'swriting a memoir to tell you
how they overcame a struggle
or how they grew in their life.
And I think "Eat, Pray, Love" does that
in a really interesting way.

(16:08):
- (Drew) Yeah.- (Amanda) Yeah.
- (Drew) Yeah, one of my favorite memoirs,
just because of how wellhe can make me laugh,
is David Sedaris.
- (Amanda) Oh yeah.
- (Drew) The man is hysterical.
And then weirdly, "Calypso"was the first one of his
that I read, which is muchmore of a serious topic,
and talking about hisfamily and his upbringing

(16:30):
and his relationship to his family.
But the man is hysterical,
and that's what gets me through his books.
- (Amanda) Did you read itor listen to the audiobook?
- (Drew) Read it.- (Amanda) Okay.
Because he's such a greatteller of his own stories
that the audiobook'sperfect medium for him.

(16:50):
- (Drew) I'm still missingI think two of his,
so I will take you up on thatbecause that feels correct.
- (Killian) And I think...
I'm trying to think like,
have I ever sat down andtried to read a physical copy
of a memoir.
And I don't...
Not any of the more current ones.
There's a few kids ones,

(17:11):
"El Deafo" is a graphic novel, memoir.
"The Promise of Change" isactually a memoir that's in verse
from one of the girls whowas one of the Clinton 12
in one of the first schoolsto integrate in the US.
- (Drew) Oh wow.
- (Killian) And thoseI've, I've read in print,

(17:32):
but all of the adult memoirsthat I have read have been,
like I said earlier,audiobooks read by the author.
And I think part of it forme is being able to connect
that actual voice 'causeyou know they're reading it
how they intended it to be.
Whereas like when you read print,
you can read it different ways,
and I like knowing what they intended,

(17:55):
particularly in something so personal.
- (Drew) Now, as librarians,
have either of you put on a program
or attended a program of anauthor who wrote a memoir
and came to speak about it?
- (Amanda) I have, yeah.
We had last year at Bloomfield Township.

(18:16):
Forgot his name.
- (Drew) Curtis Chin, I think
- (Amanda) Curtis Chin. Thank you so much.
Everything I learned, I learnedin a Chinese restaurant.
And his memoir is aboutgrowing up in Detroit
and having his familyown a Chinese restaurant
where he often worked at.
And he talks about his experience

(18:37):
as being a Chinese person
in an area where experiencingquite a bit of racism,
and how his experience wason the outside because of
having that sense of discrimination,
but also having his whole life

(18:59):
centered around this Chinese restaurant
is maybe not typical,
but also delicious.
And it was a very funny book
and he was a great presenter as well.
- (Drew) Yeah.
I remember I attendeda virtual author talk
for "Crying in H Mart" by Michelle Zauner.

(19:22):
And that was another book thatI'd read for my book club.
Almost every memoir that I've read
has been for the book club.
I sort of take advantageof the general interest
of the group and slota memoir in every year
just to keep myself versed on them.
But Michelle Zauner,
who is also the lead performerin Japanese Breakfast,

(19:45):
was a really interestingspeaker about her book
and the limitations thatshe put on herself within it
to really only focus on herrelationship with her mother.
I think in the book, herfather doesn't even get a name
because he's not relevantto the story being told.

(20:06):
And that was a really interesting thing
to hear her talk about,
is why she gave herselfsuch a narrow scope
for writing this book
in which she's not reallyan author like that,
where it's not, you know,her chosen profession.
And, you know, the decisionsthat she made on it
were so individual to her.

(20:28):
It was really interestingto hear her talk about it.
- (Amanda) That's cool.
I'm sure that in the scope of a life,
how do you narrow it down tothese, like, specific moments?
So I'm sure it's almost helpful
to like hone it in tohave those parameters.
- (Killian) I, also,listening will get stuck on,
like, how do you remember this thing

(20:48):
from so many years ago in detail?
And then, is this the actual detail
or are you taking
the general theme of anexperience that you had
and giving it a little creative liberty
to make the point you'retrying to make with it?
- (Amanda) I'm sure thereis a lot of taking liberty

(21:10):
with following your own memoryand possibly embellishment
because you have to have specific detail,
you have to have dialogue.
Is that exactly what thatperson said? Probably not.
- (Killian) It's the concept.- (Amanda) Yeah, yeah.
Will that be hard to confrontthe people in your life

(21:31):
when they read it and they'relike, "I didn't say that."
I don't know.
- (Killian) Things to think about if we
ever write our own memoirs.
(group laughs)
- (Amanda) Do you clear itwith your family members?
- (Drew) Depends onthe tone of the memoir.
(group laughs)
- (Killian) Truly.

(21:53):
- (Amanda) Are there any examples
of really unconventional memoirs
that you've read that you liked?
- I think just the twothat I mentioned earlier,
"El Deafo" by Cece Bell, beingthat graphic novel format.
And we see that a lot withyouth memoirs that will come.
Either it's a graphic novel memoir
or it is fictionalized,it's marketed as fiction,

(22:17):
but it's very much, like, thecharacter's the author's name,
it is very much builtaround their experience,
we see that with some ofthe Raina Telgemeier books.
- (Drew) Is thatAmerican-born Chinese too?
- (Killian) I'm not sure honestly,
it's been so long sinceI've read that one.
And then "The Promise OfChange" by Jo Ann Allen Boyce

(22:40):
is that novel in verse,or memoir in verse.
And I love a novel inverse, they read so quickly.
And I think, you can communicate.
I'm sure it's hard to craft it,
but I think you can communicateso well in that format.
And so to take theexperience of being a child
going through the process
of integration of a school in 1956,

(23:05):
one of the earliest schools,
if not the earliest school to integrate.
And now years later, puttingthat experience down in poetry.
It makes prose feel almost fluffy
with how emotional that poetry is

(23:27):
because it's just pareddown to the necessity.
- (Amanda) And what age group is that for?
- (Killian) It's middle grade,
so that's probably gonnabe your late elementary
into middle school.
- (Amanda) I wanna read it.
- (Killian) It was so good.
I don't remember exactdetails, it's been years,
but I was scrollingthat shelf on Goodreads
and I'm like, "Oh yeah,I remember reading this."

(23:49):
I remember sitting there
and like having an emotionalreaction to reading this.
And I hadn't thoughtabout it in a few years,
but it came back.
- (Amanda) Cool.
- (Drew) Honestly, I'm only realizing
that the answer to your questionis, no, I really haven't.
(group laughs)
You know, looking at the listof ones that I am aware of,
most of the ones that I'veread were either for school

(24:11):
or for my book club thatdo focus on, you know,
the written word, makingit as literary as possible
that I really haven't explored, you know,
memoirs and personal storiesthrough other formats
in ways that I have exploredthat with, you know,
fiction and tropes of things

(24:32):
that I've been interested there.
- (Amanda) One I have thought of,
and I've wanted to plugthis book for a while.
I don't think the libraryactually even owns it,
we might need to change that.
It's called "Nina Simone's Gum,"
And that's gum as inG-U-M, by Warren Ellis.

(24:55):
Warren Ellis is a musician.
I discovered him throughthe group Dirty Three.
He's a violinist,
but he's also in the Bad Seeds,
as in Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds.
So he is talking aboutthe specific experience.

(25:15):
He was at a show where he was playing,
but also like the Nina Simone was playing.
And she is about to start her set,
and she takes gum out of her mouth
and sticks it on the grand piano.
(Drew chuckles)
And after her set, he's like,"I have to have that gum."

(25:40):
- (Drew) As one does.(group laughs)
- (Amanda) And he takes.
He's like, "This is my idol.
I need her gum, used, chewed."
And so he takes a piece of gumand saves it for like years
and then discovers it in likea box somewhere later on.
And he is like, "I have to preserve this."

(26:01):
(Drew laughs)
So it talks about so many things.
"Nina Simone," it talksabout his life as a musician.
It talks about the need
to archive certain momentsand document certain moments,
in this case, her life and, Idon't know, her teeth marks.

(26:25):
And he talks about the artistic process.
He works with a jewelry maker
to make a mold of this gum.
- (Drew) Oh my God.
- (Amanda) And this whole thing.
And then it's like the artistic process of
how do we put this out in theworld and display it to world
'cause I can't just enjoyit, it is for everyone.

(26:46):
Artifacts of Nina Simone are for everyone.
It is one of the mostinventive, interesting.
I mean, there's photos,
there's talks about artistic process.
Highly recommend "Nina Simone's Gum"
if you like Nina Simone,
if you like Warren Ellis,if you just like quirkiness,

(27:08):
if you like idolizing a musician
and wanting to have apiece of them with you.
(group laughs)
That was one of my favorites for sure.
One of the best books I'veread in several years.
- (Drew) I will say, did either of you
grow up watching "Hey Arnold?"
- (Amanda) No.
- (Drew) I went straight to the shrine

(27:29):
that Helga Pataki hasof Arnold in her closet.
- (Killian) Isn't part of itmade of his used chewing gum?
- (Drew) Sure is- (Killian) Great.
- (Drew) Sure is.
(group laughs)
- (Amanda) Well, I thinkthat covers memoirs.
- (Drew) Sure. We've barelyscratched the surface on it
- (Killian) And we end on, "Hey Arnold!"
- (Amanda) That sounds perfect.

(27:49):
- (Killian) Amazing.
- (Amanda) All right, well,
thanks for discussing with me guys.
- (Killian) Let us know whatyour favorite memoirs are.
What if we missed, whatdo we need to read?
Clearly, I need recommendations.
- (Drew) Please, please add to our list.
- (Nicole) Thank you forjoining us for this episode
of Distracted Librarians.

(28:09):
- (Drew) Many thanks to BCTVfor their support in recording,
editing, and releasing this podcast,
and to the Friends of the Library
for sponsoring closedcaptioning on every episode.
- (Killian) If you have anyquestions or suggestions,
feel free to reach out tous at [e-mail].
- (Amanda) Until then,keep those pages turning
and those screens lighting up.

(28:30):
We'll catch you in the next episode.
- (Emily) The views and opinions
expressed in the DistractedLibrarians podcast
do not necessarily reflectthose of Bloomfield Township,
Bloomfield Township Public Library,
Bloomfield Community Television,
the Birmingham Area Cable Board,
or its producers or production staff.