How Enrichment & Species-Specific Communication Build Resilience In Service Dogs

Are you rushing your service dog’s training — or worse, forcing them into a role they’re not ready for?

In this eye-opening episode, we explore how true dog training success—especially with service dogs—starts with science-backed methods rooted in species-specific communication, scent-based enrichment, and mutual trust. If you're frustrated by slow progress or overwhelmed by conflicting advice, this episode offers clarity and compassion in equal measure.

In this episode:

• Learn how to build service dog foundations without pressure, force, or e-collars.

• Discover the powerful role of sniffing and scent enrichment in building confidence and public access reliability.

• Understand why ethical dog training must consider your dog’s individual temperament, not just your personal timeline.

  
  

Listen now to learn how to ethically train your service dog using relationship-based strategies that build trust, not trauma.

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This podcast explores life with dogs and life with pets, focusing on the dog–human bond and what it truly takes to bond with your dog through dog enrichment, behavior guidance, dog reactivity support, reactivity awareness, reactive dogs, reactive dog training, calming reactive dogs, dog training, dog training tips, training rescue dogs, pet training, dog obedience, dog behavior, dog behaviour, dog socialization, dog barking, dog habits, dog health, dog life, dog myths, and positive reinforcement for all dogs — rescue dogs, velcro dogs, anxious dogs, reactive dogs, high-energy dogs, big-feeling dogs, and family pets. Hosted by a canine nutritionist, nutrition coach, dog coach, dog coaching specialist, and retired vet tech, each episode covers dog food, canine enrichment, dog training, dog nutrition, canine nutrition, dog gut health, dog grief, dog products, and science-backed routines that help dogs feel safer, healthier, calmer, and more understood. You’ll discover practical steps, enrichment ideas, behavior strategies, and daily habits to support any dog and create a more confident, connected life with dogs.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
What if your service dog training plan started with
science? Welcome to the dog who asked for
more, The podcast helping dog parents who feel stuck and
overwhelmed by their pup finallylet go of the guilt.
Learn to communicate clearly andbuild the bond you've always
dreamed of through a partnershipbased approach that combines
training, nutrition and enrichment instead of chasing

(00:21):
the quick fixes that don't actually work.
Species specific communication and consent, not control.
I'm EM and in In this episode you'll learn how to build rock
solid service dog foundations using choice reinforcement and
scent based protocols. A species specific communication

(00:41):
prevents burnout for both the dog and handler.
How to audit your training plan for clarity, welfare and public
access readiness. Because creating a reliable
service dog starts with trust not tasks.
Ashley, you've been in the behavior science field pretty
deeply for the past 24 years. What drew you into behavior so

(01:04):
early and how did it evolve intoservice dog work?
I would say that what drew me into behavior had to be my
earlier childhood interacting with dogs and the way that my
family sort of introduced me to dogs.
We had a family dog that I called him Uncle Sam.
Actually. He was an English Cocker

(01:24):
spaniel, and he was owned by my Uncle Lee.
And one of the things I was always taught was about the
things that the dog liked about things that the dog disliked.
I was never approached or told about a dog as if it weren't
meant to have feelings of itself.
So when I got my first dog, my first personal dog, I was about

(01:45):
7 years old. I got him as a birthday present
actually because I've been asking for a dog and he had food
related guarding and aggressive behavior.
He would snap at you or lightly bite you if you were going to go
reach for his food or touch him if he were eating.
Because I was told, OK, these are some things that dogs might

(02:05):
do to express themselves. I wasn't tied to this being a
problem with my dog. I was just like, well, how do I
make this work with me and him, especially when we had moved him
into the into the house because he wasn't outside dog at first.
My family's from Jamaica, we were used to dogs being outside
animals, not inside. And of course, me being an

(02:26):
Americanized woman, I was like, no, I'm moving this dog inside
at a certain age age. I did move him into the house
and he was crate trained and I came up with a method so that I
was never touching his food in his presence or while he was
eating. And he wasn't near me or feeling
threatened by me being present around his food, which was I

(02:49):
would open the crate and tell him to go target a mat and sit
on it. And I would fix up his food, put
his food in in the kennel. And then I would tell him, OK,
he can go get it. And I would close the kennel.
There was no force used there. So I never really saw a need to
use any type of punishment. This was just me trying to find
a way to sort of cohabitate withmy dog.

(03:10):
And from there, it got me to learning about dogs and learning
about their behavior, why they would exhibit certain behaviors.
And I always used to focus on their expression.
Yes, they growl, they do this, they have hard stares, body
stiffening. But what can all of this mean to
the individual dog? And I got into that and I
started working with dogs that were fearful or had reactivity

(03:30):
issues through a training company.
And then from there, through that same training company was
able to branch out into service animals.
And that's what led me into service animals because I got to
do some work alongside an organization that's local to
Florida that the training company that I worked with, it
was an in prison program where you get to work with the
inmates. So yeah, that was that was

(03:52):
really exciting and fun. And it also allowed me to sort
of branch out my skills, but also recognize like, oh, OK,
service dogs have multiple facets.
They can be for any type of work, which that led me to
training my own service dog at the same time because I
realized, OK, so I don't have tosit here and endure panic and

(04:13):
anxiety and all these other things that are actually
debilitating in my day. I did service dogs are relevant
for for these things as well. And that's kind of what led me
from behavior science into service work.
Trying to make that a short. Story I love how it was
curiosity driven. I'm a big learner.
It's because I ask questions because I have a problem and I

(04:35):
figure out how to solve it. So I love finding other people
that learn for the same reasons that I do and test things out a
little bit. I love that your curiosity took
you across so many different fields and how you just took
your skill set and morphed it into what you needed at the
moment. That's just very inspiring,
first of all. And second of all, it just shows

(04:56):
you how much a little bit of questioning the norm can
actually make a change in a ripple effect and change the
circumstances for whoever is involved in the situation.
So I think it's really cool thatyou took the time and spread out
your knowledge across multiple different areas because that's
kind of where most people get stuck.

(05:18):
Understand why we need to have specialties and why we need to
have specialized trainers. And there are certain areas in
which we need to be hyper focused on things.
There's certain types of servicedogs for sure that need to be
really hyper focused on and brought into more niche
training. But for the most part tasking

(05:38):
skills are pretty general and pretty even keel and unless your
teaching them to alert to maybe something that's scent specific,
you really can play around with it at first.
So I like that you used your ability to think in different
scenarios and apply it to different circumstances so that
you could build something that was a little bit different and a

(06:01):
little bit more widely accessible for your clients.
It's very cool. I had fun creating my program,
but yes, also learning the way that I did, it was not
conventional in any, in any sense of the word.
I was someone who was also at the time battling the struggles
that come with certain developmental disabilities

(06:24):
because I'm, I'm also dyslexic. So reading there was not gaining
a lot of content through reading.
I gained a lot of content through visual media and through
audio. And sometimes, yes, I would get
books, but even then I could only read maybe short paragraphs
to get snippets of information because general coursework
surrounding this kind of stuff is reading.

(06:45):
It's usually a lot of reading. There's a lot of literature.
People have often asked me, well, what books have you read?
And I'm just like, no, I learnedeverything.
I learned through inference, through information, and through
observation because that was what I could use.
So that also lent to my compassion towards the dogs I
was working with. That was highlighted to me just

(07:07):
from working with other animals.So I did work with wildlife, as
you did briefly mention. And while working with wildlife,
I had one person that I was justchatting with casually who also
volunteered at the same facilitytalking about a baby Gator that
he had. And I remember at that time a
little spooked by Gators. Not that I hated him, not that I

(07:29):
disliked him, I was just a little spooked by him.
And I'm not even a religious person.
He said this very simply. And he was just like, well,
that's how he eats. That's the way God made him.
And I said, and now I have to bea little less critical because
it isn't his fault that he operates the way he does, that

(07:50):
that's how he's capable of surviving.
So it made me think of that evenfurther with dogs.
So it's not even like all of thestrict educational information.
It's just Nuggets of truth sometimes that people that I'm
working with are also dropping along the way because, yeah, a
dog is really just operating with what it has.

(08:12):
I learned operating with what I have, despite the fact everybody
was trying to tell me no, but you need to read this to do it.
I got here without reading as much as everybody else did.
So it lent to that compassion when working with the dogs too.
That's how he is. You can apply that to pretty
much anything in life if you really sit down and take the
time to think, oh, this dog is made this way, this dog is made

(08:35):
that way, This cat is made this way, the Gators made this way.
Like they're going to do the things that are appropriate to
their species and they're going to function and have thoughts
and do certain things, maybe behaviorally that we don't
understand because we're not Gators or dogs or cats.

(08:55):
What is, you know, it just what a what a simple statement that
is such a huge eye opening moment for you and now probably
many other people, including me,because we have to look at what
is happening in this situation with this specific creature and

(09:16):
why is it happening? Well, a lot of that has to do
with the fact that it's just howthey're made.
That's just a. Simple statement.
Just boom. We'll have to think on that one
and get back to you. And I wasn't, you're talking
about me as a teenager. I'm here already loving the
wildlife. And he's just like, all right,

(09:37):
let me see what you do with that.
My learning in the dog world, itstarted out with pet sitting
when I was about 12 years old and then I moved into vet tech
life and then I went back to petsitting and dog walking and now
here I am training dogs. But a lot of that is taking all
of these little tiny moments because like you, I didn't even
think to read. I read for enjoyment.

(09:57):
So thinking about reading as a way to learn in this area was
not it was that was textbook. When I was in vet tech school,
there was so much reading and a lot of those textbooks are
boring. I'm not going to lie about it.
They are boring and you have to memorize things and then you
have to spit them back out and check off your multiple choice

(10:18):
tests and all that stuff. It's a lot of process.
Repeat. It's the same thing for your
brain. And I love to learn, but I also
like to learn in a way that it is more hands on and visual
like. Like you, I just learned better
that way. Show me how to do something and
I will do it that way forever and ever and ever and ever.
If someone had tried to teach mehow to put an IV catheter in

(10:42):
through a book, there's no way. There's no way, because you have
to be able to feel where the vein is.
You have to know exactly what itfeels like when you punch that
needle through the skin. And then you have to know
exactly how to level it out so you don't push it through the
other side of the vein and rupture everything.
Like it's very tactile. You have to have a feeling for

(11:04):
it. You have to be able to touch it
and understand how those parts of the body work because
otherwise you're just going to fuck it up and a story, you're
just going to mess it up and it's going to be a whole thing.
And then you're going to have toswitch to a different arm or
you're going to have to hand it off to a different tech.
And you just, you have to get good and you have to get fast at
those things. And there are some things that
you just can't learn without hands on experience.

(11:28):
You can read about it all day and all night and not
understand. Somebody said something to me in
another podcast episode where knowledge and wisdom are
different. And the difference between
knowledge and wisdom is like understanding.
You can have knowledge of something but not understand it.
And knowledge is knowing something, but wisdom is

(11:49):
understanding that knowledge. And so I think that that's what
you're cultivating over there isyour own wisdom, which is
beautiful. So knowledge for me, because
that knowledge and wisdom thing is a big one for me.
I, I went through school, I, I was never the person who sat
there and said this particular subject I'm in isn't important.

(12:11):
Like there, there was nothing about me that used to annoying,
maybe boring the way the teacherwas doing it, maybe, but
unimportant. Oh, so I wanted to be invested,
but sometimes it was like, gosh,how do you expect me to sit
through this? Within that, I took a lot of
different classes and one of theclasses I took was the

(12:34):
philosophy. I took a philosophy course
because I was going to be interested in that.
I'm in a relationship with someone who graduated with a
degree in philosophy on top of it.
So I like philosophical conversation and one of the
biggest things for me was I callit the, the, the I'm smart

(12:54):
paradox. And it's a paradox that is only
true. It, it is a paradox because in
recognizing that it is true, youmake it true.
So I say, OK, I'm the smartest person, right?
But to be the smartest person, Ihave to realize how stupid I am
because I have to remember how much I do not know.
I have to remember how much I don't know.

(13:16):
There. There are things that I do not
have information on yet because most of the information that
I've gotten is stuff that other people found out.
And I'm taking that information and then I'm using it to see the
world around me and be either how that information has changed
or how that information might not be true, right.
So if I am continually telling myself that I know nothing, then

(13:41):
I'm always seeking information to know something upon.
Therefore, yes, I am the smartest one in the room because
I don't think I'm the smartest one in the room.
It is. It is something that in essence
builds upon itself. But then when you're separating
the knowledge and the wisdom, it's the same thing.

(14:02):
When I tell people to not measure intelligence based on
how human something look or how human something is operating,
what is the information that it has and now what is it doing
with it? What is the information that the
thing now has, however it gathered it, and now what is it
doing with that information? Observing.

(14:23):
That to me is observing the creatures intelligence, not
whether or not it can do it likeme.
What did it do with it at all? It's where so many people get
lost when it comes to canine intelligence.
Because honestly, in my opinion,I think dogs are probably way
smarter and way more intuitive than we are as human beings.
They can smell better, they can hear better, and they are 100%

(14:47):
better observers because they can inference things so quickly
from our behavior without speaking a single word to us.
But as humans, we judge intelligence exactly the way
that you just said, by how much something can mimic, repeat, or
process something the way that we do.

(15:10):
Dogs don't do that because they're really good at being
dogs, and their intelligence level is probably much more vast
and much more deep than we actually think it is because
we're too busy comparing them towhat they can do for us, how
they do what we ask them to do, and how well they're responding
to whatever situation we put them in.
Yeah, not because they're dumb or they don't understand human

(15:32):
societal norms. And God, most of the time I
don't understand human societal norms.
So how can we ask another species to do that?
Yeah, that was one of the key points I was trying to make in
an anthropomorphisms webinar, actually, that I just did for
every dog Austin, and they're this free force, free digital

(15:54):
force, free source. I believe they also have a space
in Austin. But it was a webinar about
anthropomorphism because everyone will say things like
that's anthropomorphizing or that's.
It's almost become a buzzword inmy opinion, because a lot of
people are using it without understanding what it would
actually mean to anthropomorphize something

(16:16):
because of how many things they consider to be strictly human
characteristics. And they're not strictly human
characteristics. There's a lot of characteristics
like parenting, that is, that's a mammalian characteristic.
That is not a human characteristic to parent.
You're young. It is a mammalian characteristic
to parent, you're young. So just the fact that you think

(16:41):
a puppy should be responding to you like an adult dog is already
a misrepresentation of a puppy. It's already a misrepresentation
because a puppy would still be getting parented by its mother
right now just because her parenting style looks different
than yours. Because she's parenting it like
a dog. Because she's preparing it for
life as a dog, not for life withhumans.

(17:04):
She's preparing for life as a dog because that's what a dog
knows how to be a dog. So you are getting the dog and
are saying I need to prepare this being for life with me.
But I expected to also already know all of this.
That's other stuff. Why?
Why? Have a perfect example of this.
I was driving home from the nexttown over the other day and I

(17:25):
was at a stoplight and this woman comes walking across the
crosswalk with probably a puppy that was maybe 8 to 10 weeks
old. It was very young, it was on a
leash and she was just dragging it across the crosswalk.
I'm sorry, taking a 8 to 10 weekold puppy for a walk, clearly
like a distance walk because letme tell you, the closest

(17:48):
apartment building was probably half a mile that way and she was
going this way. An 8 to 10 week old puppy does
not know how to walk on a leash,does not know how to pay
attention to what's going on, doesn't know anything about cars
or buses or traffic lights or any of that stuff.
They're still so brand new. If you compare that to let's
take a brand new newborn, 8 to 10 week old baby and drag it

(18:11):
across the parking lot on a leaf, like what the heck guys?
Seriously, 10 week old baby can't walk?
Yeah. Yeah, the amount of expectation
we have because it's a creature that can walk, so it must be
able to walk on a leash, so it must be able to go for a long
walk. So it must know this, that and

(18:32):
the other thing because. How you just get out how to use
those limbs 2 weeks earlier, yeah.
Yeah, anybody who's seen a brandnew puppy walking around, if
you've ever seen a deer or a horse or even like a giraffe
come out of the womb and they'reall like, I mean, puppies do
that until they're about four months old.
They just, they don't know what they're doing half the time.

(18:53):
And I think that it's just crazythat we have such high
expectations for something that is literally a baby.
Literally a baby. I, I try to explain to people
who have a toddler and this is the thing that I emphasize the
most when I was doing service work too, because I understand

(19:14):
us who have disabilities. There is this rush, there is
this high, there is this, Oh my God, I'm getting something to
help me and it can also be my friend.
But we also put this overwhelming amount of pressure
on this animal as if we didn't have some form of mitigation for
our disability long before we got this animal.
As if we don't recognize that there is no way for this animal

(19:38):
to reach the point of being our,as I call them in my company,
healthcare companion. If we are not the teachers and
the mentors to getting them to that place first, how are you
not going to mentor this young puppy into being the service dog
that you? That is literally what you
signed up for. If you signed up to be a handler

(20:00):
trainer, it is what you signed up for.
And yes, I'm not going to say all of those things do not come
with frustrations. I'm not going to say that all of
those things do not come with their ups and downs and
oscillations. And you're going to need a
support system, which is something that might be hard for
a lot of disabled individuals. We're not trying to say that.
We're trying to say that the reality of the situation is that

(20:21):
this life that you took on to bea companion needs a companion
and a mentor. And you can't sit there and
expect a toddler to be your service animal, your healthcare
companion, when I do mean just two weeks earlier, he was
figuring out how to waddle into the grass to Pete.

(20:42):
You can't put that level of expectation that is asking a
four year old to be your doctor.He might enjoy the stethoscope.
He might use it to take a look at your heart and listen to it
and think. That's all, and he might be
inspired to one day make this his career.
You will ruin it if you pressurehim into doing it every single

(21:03):
day like it's his job. Yeah, I I love that you use
mentor and handler together likethat because it, it is true.
You have to guide the dog. And even if your dog isn't a
service dog, let's just let's talk about that for a second
because even if your dog isn't aservice dog, you still have to
be a mentor to your dog. You have to teach your dog how

(21:27):
to exist in your house. And eventually they're going to
get better at it. But even when they're 14/17/20
years old, they still need a little bit of guidance.
I'm sure some of you guys have heard Fitz barking in the
background of this podcast episode.
Today he's a little sensitive. Today he's a little barky.
And I'm not going to correct himfor having some feelings about

(21:47):
how the day is going because he's allowed to have those days
where he's like, maybe I just feel like I need to bark at
every little noise that I hear today because he's having some
anxiety because he's feeling unsure today.
Maybe he didn't sleep well last night.
I wish more people would look attheir dogs like that and think
today might be a good day for meto stay home because my mental

(22:10):
health is unstable. My dog might not be up to the
task today because I can tell that they're feeling a little
bit more sensitive and maybe it would just be a bad combination
for us to leave the house together.
Or maybe my dog is having a bad mental health day.
So I think I can handle the two errands that I need to run by
myself. I think that it is so important
that we monitor our own levels of where we are at mentally,

(22:35):
physically, emotionally, but also look at our dogs and do the
same thing and make smart decisions for both of us.
And I think that there are so many people that don't do that.
And then that's where we put ourdogs into situations where it's
not good for them. And now we've had this dog be a
service dog for four years. Something really scary and
terrifying happens. And that one incident that we

(22:57):
could have changed by letting the dog stay home or not leaving
the house that day has now washed that service dog.
Yeah, that you change the entire, you know, the entire
career path and the the entire circumstance of your reality as
well. Like the awareness of our impact
due to the fast-paced environment that has been in

(23:20):
essence engineered around us hasour awareness of our impact has
decreased a lot. And I feel like that's something
that we need to gain back, not just for the sake of the
animals, but for the sake of ourown selves, realistically,
because the lack of awareness has also led to the point where

(23:41):
we ourselves don't have the timeto invest.
Our own lack of awareness has led to this socioeconomic
landscape where we're spending at least 12 hours of our time
and energy on are 9 to 5. Usually benefits that we're
receiving aren't such that we can even take advantage of them
sometimes. I know a lot of people working

(24:02):
9:00 to 5:00 jobs that maybe they need to go to a doctor, but
they can't make it to a doctor because even though they have
health insurance, they can't gettime off to go to the doctor.
So we're asking people in this world that's been engineered
around them with jobs that last more than 40 hours a week,
right? Like there's people who work
6080 hours to take the time to think, to remember that they're

(24:28):
with another living thing. Because nine times out of 10,
I'm not seeing. It's that people don't know I'm
seeing. It's that.
When does this get to cross my mind?
Like I'm seeing that on people'sfaces.
Like, how is that supposed to becrossing my mind right now?
And I mean, feels. I get it, I get it, but then
have the awareness of that to also collectively try to change

(24:49):
those things within your community.
It's happening because you're absent and someone else is
making the decisions for your life.
My friend, if you know that we are a country of dog lovers, we
want to continue to have dogs asa part of our lives, then our
lives need to be engineered to be able to have dogs in them,
children in them. Again, let's not even included
as the dogs right now. There's so many people who want

(25:11):
to talk about having families and having children.
Children require a time investment.
They require guidance, they require mentorship in order to
facilitate these things where you have the time, where you
have the commodity of time because we've created it and
turned it into a commodity. Now, when you have the commodity
of time to invest, you have to, or in essence, construct that

(25:34):
world because you weren't payingattention when it was basically
robbing you of the hours that you technically need.
Let's talk about the time investment that comes with a
service dog. I think that that's something
something that's super important.
I don't think that is something that's talked about a lot.
But before we get real deep intothat, I want to talk about first
how we find a service dog that is fit for service dog training.

(25:58):
Because temperament, motivation,environment, all of those things
that we have to evaluate before we start task training and all
of that kind of stuff are super important.
I've heard way too many times onsocial media, any dog can be a
service dog. I believe that this statement is
false. I believe that it is false.
I believe that it takes a certain type of dog to be a

(26:21):
service dog that I believe that resilience is a really important
thing that a dog has to be very adaptable and has to be pretty
chill and pretty much any situation in any environment,
but also has to be easily motivated and just kind of happy
to be there, right? Happy to be there and willing to
perform their jobs. And that is not every dog.

(26:41):
That guy right there, that is not, he is not the dog.
So I would like for you to kind of expand on that and talk about
what you look for in a dog that you're training to be a
companion that makes it easier for people to mentor that dog,
and then talk about how much time it takes to really level
that dog. 1st, I'm going to piggyback off of your statement

(27:03):
because it's saying that every dog can be a service dog is
flawed in the same logic as saying every human can be a
business owner. Every human cannot be a business
owner and it is not an insult ifyou're a specific dog, cannot be
or was not designed for service,that is not an insult.
That's not a mark against your dog.
So first and foremost, I think it's important to get that sort

(27:24):
of stigma and notion out of yourhead, especially since it is a
specific characteristic. Just like you wouldn't want
somebody who was meant to be a mechanic or Canadian logger to
be your surgeon. Like don't try to shove a square
peg into a round hole. That's just not, it's not good
practices in either direction. But what I usually look for,

(27:46):
yes, is a dog who both has independence, but
self-confidence. A dog who is self assured is
usually what I'm looking for. So that is a dog who
independently, if he does something or is in control of
something and it happens, he's like, OK, you know, like
whatever. You also want a dog that tends

(28:08):
to adapt to circumstances easily.
And what I mean by that is theirstartle recovery, how quickly do
they startle or do they start right?
Is their startle even noticeable?
Because there's sometimes where it like, yeah, that might have
caught their attention, but it didn't freak them out.
So you want a dog that is highlyadaptable, that is able to

(28:30):
process and move through things events quickly, not really have
to sit there and think about it for too long because they're
unsure. So that is a really good feature
and I find that that trait just sort of goes along with that
internal self-confidence. A dog that is usually
independent has some internal self-confidence but likes to be

(28:53):
around people. I don't say that they're overly
excited by people or it just likes the company of other
individuals. I do tend to lean towards that.
There's some people who tend to like aloofness more, but you
have to be, in my opinion, you have to be careful with
aloofness because aloofness can also turn into defensive.

(29:15):
And this is me just talking about personality traits.
So despite all of these award-winning personality
traits, being self confident, being independent, wanting to go
off and do your own thing, but responsive and wanting to be
around people, all of these character traits still don't
mean that the dog is going to make it to being a service dog

(29:37):
at the end, right? Which is where the time
investment part comes in. Time investment is both a lot
and a little. Because the part that that's the
part that's a lot is how many times you're going to be
repeating and doing some of the same exercises and the same
things and going out to the sameplaces and having them go see
the same stuff is going to be a lot.

(29:57):
And with a puppy, you're probably out there for about two
or three minutes at a time. They're not super long exposure
sessions, but they are frequent exposure sessions.
The minute you've brought this puppy home, it is a little bit
of decompression and then a timeinvestment.
And you're talking about the minimum of two years invested
just to get that dog to be considered in quotations, fully

(30:20):
trained service animal. Because there are some dogs that
might take longer, just like there's some kids that take
longer to leave school. There are some dogs that might
have run into a hiccup. There are some handlers that
might have had to slow down their training because of their
disability and therefore they don't meet that two year mark.
Maybe they go a little further. There's some dogs that mature a

(30:42):
little later and their handlers are trying to be safe.
It's a long process. Individuals who are freaking out
over their six month old puppy not looking like a service dog.
It's not a big deal. It's not a big deal.
You're you're telling me that your teenager doesn't look like
he's going to make it to college?
I know, I know. It happens.

(31:04):
We work through those times and we send in the acceptance
letters when he passes with straight C's from senior year
and then he goes to college and he makes breaking cum laude.
Sometimes that's the way it happens.
But your six month old dog isn'teven at the halfway point.
Like realistically your six month old isn't even at the

(31:25):
halfway point trying to say he doesn't look like a service dog
and he's six months old, seven months old, eight months old.
If we're talking about the timeline we said it was going to
take, which is 2 years, one yearis the halfway point.
Your your teenage puppy yes needs time investment but they
need a lot of support in that time investment.
Not they don't need a drill Sergeant.

(31:46):
In my opinion that's the first way to kill your teenage dog
into becoming the service dog you want them to be.
Is become their drill Sergeant because you think they're
goofing off too? OK, so tell me about your non
negotiable foundations in the beginning here before you start
adding in the task training. People start worrying about the
tasks right away, and they don'tworry about the relationship.

(32:08):
They don't worry about the foundations.
They're like, well, my dog needsto be able to bring me my
medication. Oh, my dog needs to be able to
Alert me. I need to do all these things,
but they don't focus on those foundations.
Can the dog pay attention? Can the dog stay over here?
Can the dog neutrally watch thisperson pass by handling all the
kinds of things before we worry about?

(32:30):
Can we make this dog a service? Dog.
OK. So within the timeline, zero or
two months when they get to me to about a year old, yes, we're
doing outings, but it's mainly for exposure, it's mainly to
maintain confidence. It's mainly to kind of say this
is still and this is an active part of your lifestyle.

(32:53):
So this is something you still need to be comfortable with.
So going on outings isn't Even so much about expecting them to
perform on these trips. It's about making sure that
they're still OK with these environments and able to refocus
their attention in these environments on these trips.

(33:13):
Why? Because there's way more chaos
going on here than when we were inside the house working on some
of these behaviors. So when I'm taking you out, if
you start showing me that you can respond with a sit if I ask
for it, not just offer me a sit,then sure, maybe I'll practice
these things from time to time. But I'm not here trying to ask

(33:34):
my dog to give me a performance at the age range where trying to
adjust to these circumstances isalready hard.
Trying to adjust to all the clanging noises and they become
more difficult as the dog ages. There are people who like to
argue about the fact that, oh, if you expose your puppy to all
of this when they're puppies within that socialization

(33:55):
window, you'll be fine. No, because just like children,
and you can expose your kids to all of these things and then all
of a sudden they'll go through puberty and one of those things
you expose them to turns into the scariest thing ever.
Or all of a sudden they don't like that food anymore.
There's changes that happen within adolescence that you
still need to be there for, be aware of, support your dog

(34:18):
through. So to sit there and try to tell
yourself, this is the moment where I'm supposed to be
drilling my dog on all of the behaviors that they can perform
in this environment. No, this is where you're still
double checking to make sure your dog can actually be legit
in this environment. And then we're still working on
founding. All the foundations are games.
If we're working, if it's a dog that needs to be imprinted on

(34:39):
scent, we're playing scent games.
I'm not asking you to alert to me in a mall when you're 5
months old. We're playing scent games.
If you alert to me in a mall when you're 5 months old, I'm
giving you a steak because that was not your job.
Yet you're learning to do this. You got the answer right.
You get a steak. Dogs sometimes will showcase,

(35:00):
just like children will, aptitude for things.
And again, as human beings, we get excited just like parents do
when they see kids that have aptitude for things.
They're like, Oh my God, put them in all the piano lessons,
put them in all the music classes, put them in all that.
Did you ask the kid first? Because maybe the way that they
continue to be a musical genius is just by being them.

(35:22):
So a lot of the times when I seea dog, if I'm working with a dog
with aptitude, we are just building on that foundation.
We are just doing all the games to make them keep that attitude.
We are just doing everything to make sure that nothing is going
to really catch them off guard in a bad way in the future.
We can get to the college level coursework when they're at a

(35:43):
college level brain capacity. That's kind of the long and
short. That's really important though,
because again, humans, we grow and we learn at different rates,
in different environments, at different paces, with different
surroundings, all the things. Something that we skip a lot as
humans when we're looking at ourdogs again is this dog takes

(36:04):
this long to do this. This dog says this long to the
well, humans are the same way. This human takes this long, this
human takes this long, this human takes this long.
So we need to give our dogs a little bit of grace in that area
and we need to say, OK, this this isn't sticking.
Maybe we take a break from this for a day or two.
Maybe we switch to this next week, things like that and
understand it's not a failure. Sometimes that that click just

(36:27):
takes a little bit differently because of who the dog is.
And people too quickly get frustrated by the fact that
they're dog is not doing the thing.
Because again, human construct, this is something that we have
invented in our heads in our society and we're trying to
apply it to a mass number of a different species.
And yet we're not giving them any grace, only expectation.

(36:50):
And so I like that you slow it down and you try to find
different ways to figure out howto make it work for that dog.
If a dog is struggling and you have tried 345 different ways
and you're maxed out on ideas, is that where you call it?
Do you reach out for help? How do you how do you determine
what your next is when you're stuck on something with a dog?

(37:13):
I would say it depends on what we're stuck on.
For instance, if I see that it is something that changed within
the dog that is now expressing itself, that was probably there
as part of their personality as a puppy, not just not as
pronounced. And I can tell that this is a
factor that is not actually going to improve the situation

(37:34):
for the dog or for a future handler, then I'll career change
the dog. That is the best choice for the
dog and the handler. The handler should get a dog
that is, you know, up to the task and willing and the dog
should be doing something that they enjoy.
If if it's something that's liketechnical, like he kind of drops

(37:57):
the retrieve before he gets to me.
We talked to somebody else who works on recruits and there's
probably something that I'm not seeing because I'm not the all
seeing eye. That's also another thing.
There could be something inherently about the way that
you train that isn't something that you're even aware of that
somebody else watching you couldpick up on and be like, it's
this, just fix it and you you have a resolved situation.

(38:20):
So where I call it is dependent on whether or not I see this as
a technical issue that can be easily resolved, or a facet of
the dog that is settling into its personality.
Tell me your non negotiables forpassing a dog as a service dog.
I won't pass a dog that's not comfortable in public.

(38:42):
I don't care if that is I'm not comfortable in a way where they
are potentially reactive in a public space.
I would not say I even drag a dog into that.
Like I don't even drag a dog to that point.
If you look like you might become reactive in a space, I'm
calling it on you. If it's a dog who has like iffy

(39:04):
arousal of predictability. So dogs that are sometimes like,
they're cool, they're cool, they're cool.
All of a sudden they have this random moment of just intense
arousal. Yeah.
And they display it and they just explode everywhere.
That is a non negotiable for me.I don't mean it in the sense of
a dog that just gives like a little happy expert.
I'm talking about a dog that's going to like randomly bounce at

(39:26):
somebody to lunge or whatever. And it doesn't have to be in an
aggressive way. It's just in a way that's just
that's not going to work out. I do want to pay attention all
the time to the handlers experience that's being created,
and I am more particular about dogs I'm giving to other
handlers than necessarily dogs. I will train for myself because

(39:46):
there are certain things I know that I'm capable of in terms of
working with a dog versus handlers who are disabled who
I'm giving dogs to. Me and my 24 years of experience
can do things with a dog. That's like having a slight
nervous issue over here that somebody who's a green handler,
maybe they've had one prior service dog, will be able to
actually work through. And so for me, when you're

(40:09):
giving a dog to somebody else, that dog should not be unstable
in public areas. Absolute no.
And the dog, yeah, should not have any round of random bouts
of fear or arousal activity. Dogs that bark, I feel like
those are dogs that sometimes you have to find out why they're
barking because sometimes there's dogs that bark out of

(40:30):
excitement. And it's just like, well, if
he's excited to do the job, maybe there's a way to
circumvent this. But it's usually dogs who are
not stabilized and who are not enjoying themselves.
If if this dog is not going to enjoy themselves or be a
liability for the handler, it's a no.
Go all of those are really important and something that I
know about you that maybe not everybody knows about you is

(40:53):
that you're really big on sniffing, which is awesome
because I think a lot of other trainers or people in general
think that maybe sniffing is offtask, but you actually teach
sniffing protocols to help improve performance and focus.
So talk a little bit about how you use intentional sniff work
in service dot work. There's a multitude of ways, so

(41:15):
I sniffing for a lot of decompression work before going
into new spaces. Dogs are highly olfactory
creatures. It's in my anthropomorphism
seminar too. But like highly olfactory
creatures, It's not funny how strong a dog's nose is and how
much of their brain is dedicatedto processing scent information,

(41:38):
allowing a dog sniffing time sniffing abilities.
Sniff sniff snuff. Snuff in a lot of places is
actually more public access training for the dog than
anybody realizes because they are familiarizing themselves.
When you allow them to sniff, they are doing way more
familiarization than they're doing with any other friggin

(41:58):
sense that they have. Like your dog can create an
entire picture of the world through its sense of smell.
So I do a lot of games where I will do fast sniffing games,
right? Like tossing the tree.
I will do games where I walk alongside the building and just
like let them sniff. I allow them to disengage and

(42:19):
sniff. When they are working on getting
used to the environment, they are allowed to disengage from
me. See something, disengage, sniff.
See something, disengage, sniff.I want them to know how to self
regulate and sniffing is also a self regulating behavior for
dogs. People think of sniffing as like
this offensive thing. And I'm not going to say that in

(42:41):
certain situations. I don't try to curtail the
sniffing because, because in certain public spaces, yes, it
might be, but you cannot let your dog sniff a watermelon at
the grocery store. There's there's rules, but you
can give your dog the opportunity in a controlled
setting to know what a watermelon smells like so that

(43:01):
it is not novel. You can create controlled
experiences and in a lot of waysin your own home using scent.
When I'm working with a service dog, intended litter, because I
do breed border collies as well.When I'm working with an
intended litter and my litter isinside, I go outside to a bunch

(43:22):
of random locations and I'll pick up rocks from that place
because that is one of the firstsenses they have is puppies,
primarily their sniffer. So I'm taking scent from
everywhere. You're going to get used to the
smell of this random construction yard that's right
by this place you're going to visit every day.
It is not just a factor of imprinting, it is also a factor

(43:46):
of exposing them to their environment before they even
have to touch it with the thing that they use to gather the most
information about it. So yeah, me and the Sniffer are
big, big sniffing. Protocol yeah, I and I love it
because I have learned so much about the olfactory in dogs and
how much better their scent spelling is than our 10,000 to

(44:09):
upwards of a million times better depending on what it is
and all of that kind of stuff. It's really very fascinating and
it's something that I would loveto get into really, really
deeply on one of these podcast episodes because it is so
fascinating and we just scratching the surface of
understanding how it works for dogs.

(44:30):
But the simplest thing that started me on this was when Fitz
started doing the chatter. You know, I always thought it
was so funny that he did that chatter.
I was like, what? Why is his teeth chattering?
And some people are like, he's nervous always.
Whatever. No, he's processing the scent.
He's making the air move faster through his system so that he
can think about it and understand it better.

(44:52):
That's so cool. Yes, because when I wrote up the
initial script at for for this seminar, I emphasized the
Jacobson's organ so hard becausewe don't have 1.
And I was just like weak. Like I was like, I guess
evolution missed us on that. Not so special.

(45:14):
That's another area where humans, we think about
intelligence. We don't understand the level of
intelligence and brain work thatis happening right there because
we don't experience it. It's not something that we
understand. So again, like I said earlier, I
think dogs are smarter than us in so many ways because that's
something that we'll never understand.

(45:36):
We don't get it. Maybe down the road, somewhere
of evolution will give it to us,but I don't think so.
Humans don't use their nose for most things.
They were smart enough to recognize that working with us
was meant to enhance their living capabilities.
They realized we have a skill set based on how we're designed.

(46:00):
They do. They know this.
OK. It is hilarious to me when I
throw a ball, it lands in a treebecause dogs do understand
gravity. What goes up is meant to come
down. And if it didn't do that, it's
stuck. OK, so here's my dog who will
look up in the tree, right? And be like, yeah, it's up

(46:20):
there. And then look at me like, excuse
me, bipedal with fingers. Get your ass over here because
I, I need you to get this ball out of this tree.
You're the one who can do this. Let's go.
Wolves have done it with other creatures.
Wolves will now work with Raven.Interspecies relationships
happen so much more easily with a lot of other species and not

(46:43):
humans. And it's not because we're
smarter. I'll put that one to bed.
It's because we don't listen. We don't listen.
We don't listen to ourselves. We don't listen to each other.
We definitely don't don't listento our dogs.
The world would be, I would say,a marginally better place if we
would slow down and listen to each.

(47:05):
Other because it's a cooperativeeffort.
I understand everybody went intothis hyper individualism phase,
screw capitalism and like we alljust started trudging forward
and saying hey yeah, this is theand if you're back there, you're
behind. I know ESOP has the fable about
the tortoise and the hare. Sometimes you're running so
fast, you're missing the whole, OK, sometimes you do need to

(47:27):
slow down because I I've seen dogs try to communicate with
their people. Another eye opening experience
for me was my dog Abby, who was another just iconic experience
in my in my youth. I got her when I was 15 years
old. My dog Abby one time just trying
to tell me that she needed watergoing through the gauntlet to

(47:52):
explain that she needed creaturecan't speak English going
through the gauntlet. And I just remember going to
people after this in some of my classes and saying, if you think
you're frustrated trying to get them to do something, how
frustrated do you think they aretrying to tell you what hell
they want and you're just over here in God damn La La land like

(48:16):
they're not doing anything. That note tell people what red
flags to look for in their service dog when they need to
take a break, when they need to do a different task.
Maybe this is their red flag that it's time for a career
change. Tell tell people what they
should be looking for. What are those signs?
I would. Say a sign that you probably

(48:37):
need to double back and do some training, like say maybe do a
refresher, is seeing any sort ofagitation or anxiety in public
spaces when you go back. I would say that even in the
home, if you notice any difference in their physical
behavior, take a step back because I think sometimes people

(49:02):
forget as dogs age, your dog could be going blind, your dog
could be going deaf, your dog could be developing arthritis,
your dog could have a freaking toothache and there's something
loud when you're out and about. And both of those things make
make him uncomfortable or scared.
Now, any signs of discomfort, agitation, fear in spaces that

(49:26):
you never noticed before? I would say that that is the
time to either take a step back and either do a vet check or
training depending on the age ofthe dog.
However, either is appropriate regardless of the age of the
dog, because you could have a six month old dog that ends up
with a degenerative joint issue that you did not expect, and

(49:47):
that can happen. And simply because the dog is 6
months old does not mean that that isn't something that you
should be paying attention. Yeah.
Absolutely. And how should a handler
advocate for their dog in a busyenvironment?
I usually will practice a lot ofcues to keep my dog out of the
way in busy environments. So teaching my dog to go to the
middle of me, teaching my dog tocome in front of me and walk at

(50:09):
a certain pace in front of me, teaching my dog to stay out of
the way. But the way I would do it for
people who are invasive is I usually will be very forward
myself. Excuse me, even if it's just an
excuse me, excuse me or putting my hand out because I know some
people don't like to talk. I just I just put on the art

(50:30):
autistic RBF face on and I'm like, no, do you see this bubble
I created for myself? It's my bubble.
Me and this furry thing go away.I also try to make sure I have
an eye on their tail. I can't tell you out of the two
times that Rogue's tail got stepped on.
If you're not a person with a dog with no tail, keep an eye on

(50:51):
the tail at all times. That is their spine.
Someone stepping on that is verypainful.
Your dog will have a reaction and we cannot blame them if they
do so. Keep an eye on the tail.
Yeah, that's a big one. I I don't think that people
realize how important the tail is.
I've known several people now who've had to wash a veteran

(51:13):
service dog because the tail gotstepped on, shut in a door,
ripped around by a little kid, run over by a wheelchair, all
kinds of things. Because people don't pay
attention to dogs unless they have a reason to and it causes
injuries and fear that results from the injuries.
Yeah, Rogue had the instance of we were at medieval times,

(51:35):
medieval times, the very crowdedplace, and we were standing.
I was wondering why she got frantic.
All of a sudden someone was standing on her tail.
And I'd be like, get off her tail, like.
And then I moved her in front ofme, you know, sit her in front
of me. And then that was it.
I was one time at a restaurant where they walked by and she
felt it and moved out of the way.
And I saw her tail hairs had caught under the person's foot

(51:59):
lying on the on the floor. And then the third time I was
with a friend and that time she went nuts because the big, the
guy was tall and heavy be set. And she was like, ah, and I was
just like, you're on her like. And I was like, get off my dog's
tail. Yeah, watch out for the tail.
I usually try to keep my dog in front of me or sweep their tail.

(52:21):
But yes, the tail can get lost. Watch the tail.
That's a really good piece of advice.
What do you wish more people understood about ethical service
dog training versus quick fixes like E collars, compulsion, or
flooding? Ethical service dog training
when you're raising them from puppyhood might feel longer

(52:41):
because you don't have a pristine looking dog at six
months. However, in the long run, I
would say yeah, more positive for you I would say in the long
run you get more longevity. In the long run, you get dogs
that are much, much, much, much more just settled into the fact
that this is their lifestyle rather than this is something

(53:04):
that I have to ever get. Like, like there is a
difference. And I, I do see it in the dogs,
dogs that are just like, this ismy job and I've known how to for
a while now and I finally get todo big boy stuff and a dog
that's like, I hate this. They drag me out here every
single day and they tell me it'ssupposed to be fun, but I hate
it. Like I, and I've seen those dogs

(53:25):
too. And it's not worth it to try to
use compulsion for a dog whose livelihood is centered around
being someone that you need to rely on for your health you
don't want to force. That 100% agree with that
statement. You do not want to force that

(53:46):
you, this dog is supposed to tell you when your heartbeat is
off, when your blood sugar is up, when you're about to have a
seizure, you're about to have a migraine, all, all kinds of
different things that again, ourdogs and their nose intelligence
can detect that we don't even necessarily feel in our own
bodies most of the time. And we're dependent on this dog

(54:10):
to help us with this. If your dog is like, I'm going
to get shocked if I do that. I remember the last time that I
did this and it went wrong. So now I'm not going to do that
anymore. You miss those opportunities to
build that communication, to build that relationship and to
settle in on that foundation of trust with your dog.
If your dog doesn't trust you, if you forced your dog into this

(54:32):
position where they feel like should I, should I not do I?
What do I? That causes anxiety, that causes
reactivity, and now you have a dog that is unreliable as a
service dog. This should be a partnership.
You guys should be working together to build something for
your health and safety in a trusting, loving relationship

(54:54):
that your dog understands they're getting a reciprocated
response of love and trust and that you appreciate them.
A little bit of appreciation goes a long way in any species.
Everyone wants to be loved, everyone wants to be
appreciated, and for the most part, everybody wants to be
understood. So slowing down, listening and

(55:16):
taking that time, whether it takes 2 years, whether it takes
2 1/2 years, depending on where you're at with this dog, just
give it that extra time because that is the foundation of your
relationship with your dog and that is so important.
Yeah, at the end of the day, youeven have to ask yourself, even
if it's not you necessarily utilizing these traditionally

(55:37):
compulsive tools, even if it's just you rushing the dog into
that situation. I'm going to tell you right now,
if I were the dog and you were making me do it all throughout
my teenage years. And one day I, I smelled that
your heartbeat was off, but I was just like, but I could be
sleeping through this right now.I probably would versus if
you're my buddy and you've had me this entire time and I know

(55:58):
what to do now because something's up with you, I'm
going to jump into action, especially if I have a
relationship with you. And if you don't think a dog
also builds those types of relationships, trust me, they
do. They will give you the middle
finger and tell you to F off if they want to.
And you know what? It'll be your own undoing.
That it will be own undoing. I think a lot of times people

(56:22):
just don't realize that the pressure and the stress and the
the way that we're training our dogs is the our own undoing.
We try to rush things. We look for quick fixes, all of
the stuff and it just, it doesn't work.
It doesn't work. You're going to have a dog that
is afraid of you, that is afraidof its surroundings and it's

(56:43):
literally your own fault. We were talking about this or we
hit the record button about people wanting these quick
solutions for their dogs. Dogs are not programmable
robots. We can't just say here's your
chip, now you're a service. Dog.
Dog is a relationship. It is.
It is a long term cohabitation relationship.

(57:04):
I'm sorry you got the dog. It lives for 15 years.
It has a lifespan. It is a long term commitment, so
you can't go in and say well, but I wanted perfection in the
first six months. That's nice.
You know what I'm going to say? That's nice.
The dog probably did too, but hestill seems to be sticking with

(57:24):
you, so ride it out. The dog probably wanted it to be
easier too. Yeah.
He can't run away from you like.Is dependent on you for housing,
food, all of the things. Dog cannot run off and do its
own thing. You can run off and desert a dog
if you're that guy kind of person, but not the best choice
for not. When I would encourage.

(57:46):
No, definitely not when I would encourage either.
Just a few more questions beforewe wrap up here.
For pet pros who are listening to this episode, how can they
upskill towards service dog support ethically through
mentorships, recommended literature, case consults,
referral networks? What would you say to somebody
that's saying I would like to find people that I can refer

(58:07):
clients to because they don't have any idea of what they're
doing? There's a lot of groups on the
Internet that are service dog centered and I feel like a lot
of communities are going to haveconnections to trainers as well
as I think there's a blacklist for trainers to avoid.
So that's really important because more than I can
emphasize a really good trainer,I got to emphasize trainers to

(58:29):
avoid. There's also, I believe it's
Veronica. I don't remember their last
name. They have a database of service
dog certified service dog coaches because they have that
service dog certificate program as well as I know that there is
a new one that is building a base of referrals as well, which

(58:49):
is the Anarchist Alliance Assistance Dog.
I think trainers and that is 1 where they will even match you
based upon identity. So they get really specific with
it so that you're getting matched with a trainer that can
work with you on an individual level.
Those are my big initial recommendations.

(59:10):
And because it's, it's kind of going through the weeds right
now when it comes to locating service dog trainers that people
can use as resources. There's tons of programs and
organizations, but the wait lists are super long.
So the, the Bank of resources tobe able to find service dog
trainers is actually quite new. So those are the few

(59:31):
organizations that I know of currently that are working on
certified or vetted trainers that they can direct you to for
people who need service animals.That's incredible.
There's a lot of people out there that they have no idea how
to vet a trainer. They have no idea what the red
flags are for service dog industry.
They have no idea, just purchasing a card off of the

(59:51):
Internet that says their dogs. The service dog is not actually
legitimate and there are so manysteps in between there.
If a listener needed help today,where would you tell them to
start? If they needed help sourcing a
service dog, my services are obviously always available.
I do everything from helping people find and source a dog,

(01:00:11):
whether you want to get a rescue, even though that process
of vetting can be very tedious and stringent, we do offer those
services. We offer a coaching program so
that you're prepared for when you get your service dog, as
well as a pledge program that includes a a scholarship program
along with it for people who aremore disadvantaged.

(01:00:32):
That is designed as an 18. And now we're actually creating
also a 24 month program where you get a puppy that is
ethically sourced, trained in basically in my facility by me
for 18 months up until the pointwhere they're able to go home.
It goes like and there's an entire very much catered

(01:00:53):
integration phase that occurs aswell within that program.
So that can all be found. There's an application at the
chaoscanon.com, which is my website.
So if anybody was seeking to have any assistance right now
with sourcing a service animal, getting prepared for being with
one or having one trained for them, that's an immediate

(01:01:14):
resource that I can. Perform at all And but not
least, What would you like to leave the listeners with?
I'd like to leave the listeners with dog training is a journey,
not a destination of being a dog.
Gardening is about living life and life is going to have its
ups and downs, so it's not supposed to look.
Perfect, that is incredibly powerful and so very true.

(01:01:35):
So remember, be kind bread joy, don't rush the journey and and
we'll see you guys next week on straight up dog talk.
If you've been feeling like no one really understands what
you're going through with your dog, it can feel really
isolating and heavy carrying allthat weight by yourself day
after day. That's why I created a free
community, a safe space where you can share the hard stuff,

(01:01:58):
get support and be surrounded bypeople who truly get it.
You'll find the link in the shownotes.
Thanks for listening to the dog who asked for more new episodes
drop every Monday and Wednesday.I'll see you next time.