December 24, 2025 • 48 mins
Is your aging dog acting “off”—pacing at night, staring at walls, or forgetting their routine? It might not be old age. It might be dog dementia—and it can be treated.
In this groundbreaking and deeply personal episode, Em sits down with board-certified veterinary surgeon Dr. Terry Fossum to explore how nature-based medicine is changing the game for aging and sensitive dogs. From CBD and oleander to the dangers of unregulated supplements, this episode cuts through the noise to give dog parents real, science-backed insight into how to support their pets through pain, confusion, and cognitive decline.
In this episode:
Understand the difference between normal aging and early signs of canine cognitive dysfunction (aka dog dementia)
Learn why most CBD products fail—and how to choose ones that are safe, dosed correctly, and effective
Discover why emotional reactivity, aggression, or “weird” behavior in older dogs may actually be pain or brain-related
Hit play to learn how catching subtle signs early—and choosing natural, research-backed solutions—can give your dog more good days, and give you more time together.
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This podcast explores life with dogs and life with pets, focusing on the dog–human bond and what it truly takes to understand and bond with your dog through dog body language, dog enrichment, behavior guidance, dog reactivity support, reactivity awareness, reactive dogs, reactive dog training, calming reactive dogs, dog training, dog training tips, training rescue dogs, pet training, dog obedience, dog behavior, dog behaviour, dog socialization, dog barking, dog habits, dog health, dog life, dog myths, and positive reinforcement for all dogs: rescue dogs, velcro dogs, anxious dogs, reactive dogs, high-energy dogs, big-feeling dogs, and family pets, hosted by a canine nutritionist, nutrition coach, dog coach, dog coaching specialist, and retired vet tech, with episodes covering dog food, canine enrichment, dog training, dog nutrition, canine nutrition, dog gut health, dog grief, dog products, and science-backed routines that help dogs feel safer, healthier, calmer, and more understood while offering practical steps, enrichment ideas, behavior strategies, body language insights, and daily habits to support any dog and create a more confident, connected life with dogs.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
What if the next big breakthrough in dog health
didn't come from a lab, but fromlove, loss and listening to the
dogs who needed more? Welcome to the dog who asked for
more, The podcast helping dog parents who feel stuck and
overwhelmed by their pup finallylet go of the guilt.
Learn to communicate clearly andbuild the bond you've always
(00:20):
dreamed of through a partnershipbased approach that combines
training, nutrition, and enrichment instead of chasing
the quick fixes that don't actually work.
And in this episode, you'll learn how Doctor Terry Fossum
turned decades of surgical experience into groundbreaking
natural products for dogs. Why CBD, oleander and other
(00:43):
natural ingredients might hold the key to treating pain, itch,
and even dementia. What you need to know about
supplement regulation, dosing, and why so many pet products
don't actually do what they promise.
I am a board certified veterinarian surgeon.
Let me tell you what that entails.
As a veterinarian, you go to veterinary school for four years
(01:06):
and then you can practice right out.
So it's not like being a physician where you have to do
an internship and a residency. My husband is a veterinary
cardiologist, but both of my boys are physicians.
So I've sort of lived both thoseworlds and it and it is
different. So as when you graduate from
veterinary school, you can go into practice or you can decide
(01:29):
to special. If you decide to specialize,
it's typically a year of sort ofdoing everything, we call it an
internship. And then the residency at least
in surgery is 3 years after that.
And all you do is surgery and then you take an exam and if you
pass that exam, you're known as a board certified surgeon.
(01:51):
So we're the people that get referrals from general
practitioners, they'll look at adog and it might require a total
hip replacement or heart surgery, and they're not
prepared to do that. So they would refer that to
somebody like me. And we have specialists in just
about every area. So like I said, my husband's a
(02:12):
veterinary cardiologist, but we have dermatologists,
ophthalmologists, neurologists, radiologists, you name it,
they're in the veterinary field.And a lot of people don't
realize that when you're a surgeon, it's pretty awesome.
You deal one-on-one with people and you help one animal at a
time. And I did that for the majority
(02:33):
of my career. I spent 26 years in academics at
1 university and then became vice president for research at
another university. And then I quit and started my
own company. And what I wanted to do was help
multiple animals at a time, not just one animal.
And so the area that we got intowas really looking for natural
(02:57):
products that would meet an unmet medical niche.
And a lot of times they've been problems that my own dogs have
had. I I'm a Labrador person and I
recently lost him, but I had a 14 year old Labrador whom was
the love of my life. He had a condition called elbow
(03:20):
dysplasia, which they're born with but they get osteoarthritis
as they age. And so at when he got older he
started having serious trouble with that.
So one of the things I did is I was like well I cannot put him
on non steroidals. He has some kidney disease and
non steroidal anti inflammatories are really hard
(03:41):
on the gut and the kidneys. So I didn't want to put them on
a non steroidal and so I startedlooking through the literature
to see what else was out there. And that was about the time CBD
came out. So I started researching it.
But what was really apparent wasthat most of the products that
were being marketed online were fraudulent to just, I'll just
(04:07):
say they're fraudulent because they didn't meet their label
claims. Some of them said they had CBD
in them and they didn't have any.
Some of them said they didn't have any THC.
And you know, dogs are much moresensitive to THC than people,
and yet they did have a lot of THC in them because there's no
regulation. It's not like going through the
FDA and getting approval. There's no regulation for
(04:30):
supplements in the animal space.And so actually the same thing
is true in the human space. About 70% of the products were
fraudulent. So I decided, well, how
difficult could this be? I'm going to just make my own.
So we did that with CBD. And then the next thing I faced
with my dog is cognitive dysfunction.
It's called doggy dementia. It's Alzheimer's disease in dogs
(04:53):
with the difference that is actually more treatable in dogs.
We can reverse the signs in dogswhere it's kind of difficult,
usually do that in people, although hopefully new meds are
going to be coming about. But what we did is we took a
bunch of brain health ingredients.
I have a friend who's a veterinary neurologist and I
(05:13):
asked him, when you get a dog inthat's showing signs of
dementia, what would you put them on?
He goes, well, if I had my choice, I'd put them on eleven
ingredients. But no owner is going to go out
and buy eleven ingredients and give that to their dog.
And so we decided we could do that.
We could buy those eleven ingredients, package them and
(05:35):
sell them. And so he did a study.
Once we'd made that product, theneurologist, Curtis Dewey did a
small study, but what we saw wasabout a 38% improvement in
cognitive function in 30 days. Kind of interesting that the
thing with cognitive dysfunctionin dogs is one of the things
(05:56):
that they show is their sleep wake cycle reverses.
So these dogs, you've probably seen them, these dogs become
active at night. They both localized at night, so
they keep their owners awake. So we always kind of joke we're
selling sleep because these dogsquickly stop doing that and you
know, they're, they're, they become attentive to their owners
(06:16):
during the day. They start sleeping at night.
So that's, that's pretty awesome.
Pretty amazing to see that change.
So those are the types of thingsthat we work on, these ones that
are natural products that will meet these unmet niches and and
improve the quality of life of dogs and cats.
That's incredible, incredibly important because as you said,
(06:36):
there are not a whole lot of regulations in dog world anyway,
right? Food, supplements, treats, all
of it is a lot of just marketingon a package.
It's not really regulated. There are kind of rules that
come from AFCO, but they're not really that great and they
haven't been updated since 2006.I love when I find people who
(06:58):
are taking the system that we currently have and throwing a
wrench in it because the system that we have right now is so
outdated and it is so I don't even know what the right word
for it is. It's just, it's old and it's
crickety and it doesn't work anymore and it's.
Too expensive. Most people don't know this to
(07:20):
get a dog approved through the FDA.
Even the FDA CBM right is minimally 8,000,000 bucks.
You know, probably more like gosh, but but nothing like the
human side. So if you have a drug that you
want to get approved and you start with your preclinical work
(07:41):
on the human side, your odds of actually getting registered on
the other side is 3.4%, 3.4%. That is why drug costs are so
ridiculous these days, because we have to pay for all those
failures, all those other 90, you know, 7% are where we paid
(08:05):
for a good part of the studies on those to get them approved
and they fail. And so one of the things, this
is an aside, but one of the things I am passionate about is
let's stop doing studies in a species that doesn't matter for
people. And that's rodents.
Mice and rats do not represent the human condition well, and
(08:27):
yet still something like 98% of all preclinical studies are done
in rodents. We can cure cancer in the mouse
every day. It doesn't work in people.
Let's take a more predictive animal species, Which which is
dogs that get the same diseases as people naturally.
They get them, let's not create them, and let's use those dogs
(08:49):
as the animal model for our human approval process.
It's done occasionally. It needs to be done a lot more
and then we'd see fewer failuresand that would mean drug costs
would come down. So when you say naturally
occurring, you're talking about setting up an opportunity for
people who have dogs that have cancer to go through these
(09:09):
trials. That is exactly what I'm talking
about. For example, when you're looking
at a rodent with a cancer, theirimmune system can't be
functional because if you give them a human cancer, they're
going to see that As for it, andtheir immune system's going to,
you know, do whatever to it, getrid of it, hopefully.
So you're really testing withoutan intact immune system.
(09:32):
Dogs that come in and get these cancers naturally have an intact
immune system. They have the comorbidities that
people would have. That's the population you want
to test in and they benefit fromthat.
The only thing I always tell people is as long as your safety
data and we know this drug is not going to harm your pet, we
(09:54):
seldom have anything to lose by trying it because for most of
these, we don't have a good therapy.
Let me give you an example of something I'm working on.
It's been one of the more interesting things I'm working
on. I would say one of the more
difficult things I've ever worked on.
A couple years ago I got asked to take a look at oleander.
I live in Arizona and oleander grows everywhere here and it's
(10:18):
very toxic. It's a flower, correct?
It's a it's a flowering Bush, anornamental Bush.
Really pretty OK Bush grows everywhere where I live in
Texas. Anywhere where it's hot and dry
it grows. A company had been researching
oleander for over 20 years for for human Indications.
(10:38):
A couple years ago they reached out and they said we'd really
like to go with the into the veterinary market with Oleander.
So I started looking at it and at first I was like, Oh my gosh,
this is toxic. Why?
Why? But then when I really looked at
the data, it was pretty excitingin a number of ways.
One, an indirect antiviral because it boosts the immune
(11:01):
system so much that it can clearthese viral infections.
And so we've looked at it for some pig viral diseases and
right now we're looking at it. We're writing a grant for avian
influenza because we work through a mechanism that is
required for the viral proteins to fold.
(11:25):
They need this protein called group 78 and we down regulate
that. Oleander down regulates that to
the point where the viral proteins don't get folded so
they're not infected. And we do that at micromolar
doses. So we're dosing it really,
really, really tiny levels and we're getting rid of these
(11:45):
viruses. Really exciting.
But one of the things I'm potentially, I was excited and
haven't done anything because I have to raise money to test
this, but there was a group out of the University of Edinboro
that were looking for cenolytics.
Cenolytics, our cells, our cellsaren't meant to divide forever.
(12:06):
Our cells are meant to divide certain number of times and then
they get old and they start making mistakes and so they're
supposed to die. But we have a population of
cells that go, not going to die.I'm just going to quit dividing
and then you're not not going tobe able to kill me.
Those are called senescence cells, or some people call them
zombie cells. And now a lot of people believe
(12:28):
that those zombie cells are responsible for aging and the
diseases static aging. And so if we could use a
synolytic and get rid of those senescent cells, we would do a
couple things right? We would reduce aging, maybe
enhance longevity. But the other thing that I'm
(12:49):
just so excited about, if I could raise the money, we do
this test so when we give chemotherapeutics, we drive
cells into senescence, and thosecells are not going to be killed
by your chemotherapeutic. And there's increasing belief
that those senescent cells are just hanging out.
(13:10):
You know, you're getting your chemo, the dividing cells are
dying, but these senescence cells are just hanging out and
then you stop and then they go, now is my chance and they head
to the lung and they become yourmeth.
And so we believe that if we could give the standard of care
chemo, so whatever the chemo that's used for that tumor, but
(13:32):
add oleander so that we also gotthose senescent cells, we could
potentially prevent those Mets. Wow, which would be huge.
I mean, think about osteosarcomain dogs.
I mean, they always die from their pulmonary Mets, right?
Even though we radiograph them, their lungs are clear.
We start them on their chemo, it's six months to a year later,
(13:56):
they all have Mets in their lungand they all die.
Do you have statistics for the percentage of dogs that
currently get cancer in the in the world population or even in
the United States population? I you know, it would used to be
like one out of one out of everysix dogs, I think is the last
(14:18):
statistic I heard. It's probably much lower than
that. I can't give you an exact
number. And I will tell you the reason
is this. We don't have the kind of
reporting that they do on the human side.
And so I really think any of those numbers you see need to be
taken with a grain of salt. There is a registry called the
Charge Registry, which is tryingto get people to add cancers
(14:40):
into a registry. Because the ideal would be as if
we could with this take charge registry, if we could identify
where these animals are and thenwe could have rolled them into,
you know, clinical trials. But but by and large, I would
say I don't think we really know.
But if I had to guess, if you take an older animal, it's
probably 1:00 and 2:00 or 1:00 or 1:00 and 3:00.
But again, just a guess. Don't hold me that, but it's
(15:04):
it's a lot. You know, these older that's
high. Yeah, that's so sad.
In your experience, what do you think are contributing factors
to that to dogs and cancer? That's a great question because
I've always thought that dogs are really the Canary in the
coal mine for cancer for people and that if, you know, we could
(15:26):
identify areas. So this goes back again to a
registry where we, you know, getanimals put in various areas.
But if we saw an uptick in cancers in a particular area
that might suggest as environmental and that we will
be seeing that in people becauseI think dogs, you're going to
see everything you can't do. It's very difficult to do
(15:48):
prevention and people when theirlifespan is maybe 80 years.
And when do you start your prevention?
How long do you follow him? But when you have a dog whose
lifespan is probably maximally 14, you start him at 8:00, not
that many years to follow him. Prevention is best done in a
species that doesn't live so long.
(16:09):
To your point, yeah, I do think environment is probably part of
it for sure. Genetics we part of it too.
I mean, Oh my gosh, the number of French Bulldogs that we see
now with not just respiratory issues, but neurologic issues,
like they surpassed dachshunds these days.
(16:31):
I've heard that they're like thenumber one most breeded breed in
general right now, which I mean,screams that there's probably
some inbreeding and just misbreeding of other things in
general, which is terrible because people are charging
$5000 for a French Bulldog and you have absolutely no idea if
(16:53):
that French Bulldog has a good genetic history or not.
And it's, it's, it's terrifying.And then these dogs get sick, we
lose them at early ages and people are like, well, what
happened? Well, what happened is people
are just trying to make money and they're not concerned about
the health of the dog, which is kind of terrifying.
(17:14):
So talk a little bit about this registry, this charge, how, how
can people look into this and bea part of this if they have a
dog that has cancer and they're potentially interested in seeing
what you guys have to offer? Yeah.
So you can go online and take charge registry and people can
upload or encourage their veterinarians to upload their
(17:34):
records to the site. So go in, take a look.
It's it's it's young, it's not as well developed as we would
like, but we are still working on it, trying to get that
information in there. So one of the ideas behind the
registry was to try and get moreinformation about how common
cancers are different cancers and how come they are and very
(17:56):
species and stuff, which is going to take a lot of cases to
really be able to do that. But I think we could identify
these animals that could get enrolled in clinical trials.
And there are veterinary clinicsthat are doing that.
You know, there are some out there that they really strongly
believe in research and clinicaltrials and using natural models.
(18:18):
I've had a career where I've done experimental work, usually
not in dogs, thank goodness, because that's always, it was
heartbreaking and I've always hated it.
And I've always thought there had to be a better way.
And I think that better way is to identify dogs with naturally
occurring disease. I mean, they have now almost
every disease that people get, dogs get, except coronary.
(18:39):
We really don't see that. But cancer is pretty much the
same. A lot of heart disease in dogs,
a lot of both congenital and acquired mitral valve disease,
pericardial disease, you name it, infection.
Diabetes. Yeah.
Yeah, it's, it's wild to me. I'm, I'm kind of with you.
I never understood lab testing. I, I have such a hard time with
(19:02):
it because we're literally breeding animals so that we can
make them sick and then try to make them better and then this
large percentage of them dies and it just seems so cruel to
me. I I have always had such a
problem with it. And so much like animals in
captivity, I also, I struggle with that as well because I
(19:22):
understand that there are physical facilities that are
there for rehabilitation purposes or to keep animals that
can't survive out in the wild ontheir own.
One of my favorite examples of that is the Monterey Bay
Aquarium, where they have all ofthose rehabilitated animals and
they keep them there because they can't go back out into the
(19:42):
wild. And I think that it's so
important that we have things like that.
But I also don't think that keeping wild animals for our
entertainment is fair either. So I am definitely interested in
following this progression that you're on here and seeing what
you're up to. Because I think that if we could
work with animals that were sickand potentially help them, like
(20:06):
clinical trials with people, we could be helping dog parents, we
could be helping dogs, but we could also be helping people's
mental health as well because it's hard when our dogs get
sick, especially with something like cancer.
I have a friend who has a dog who and they have been going
through. Cancer treatment, I think for
two years now and he's been cancer free this this whole
(20:29):
time. But it was the second time he'd
had cancer. It's just, you know, constantly.
Is he going to be OK? Is it, is it going to come back?
And they have to have a check every month.
It would be so neat if there wassomething out there that was
actually helping them get through this and process it and
hopefully keep him healthy through the end of his life.
Because he's an older, he's an older golden retriever.
(20:51):
It takes a lot out of them mentally and emotionally to care
for that animal, to worry about that animal, to give the
medications every day to make sure that the activity level
isn't too stressful and, and allof the things.
And then again, the expense likeyou mentioned is extremely high.
So it's just so sad and so hard.And I I think that if we could
(21:15):
find ways to partner like through clinical trials, we
would be solving problems for a lot of people and dogs.
But most people don't recognize is that a lot of studies to get
products approved in humans are done in dogs.
But we don't always get that information.
But that's typically the safety data that we would use to say we
(21:37):
know that this is going to be safe for your dog at this given
dose. Now let's test for efficacy.
And most people are going to be fine with that.
The compliance rate in veterinary clinical trials is
actually much higher than human trials, which kind of makes
sense, right? If you're sick, driving yourself
in for a trial, you feel nauseous that morning, you may
not want to go, but you can get your dog in there if your dog
(22:00):
doesn't feel well for the trial.So yeah, the compliance rate is
usually higher. A lot of the cost will get paid
for by the study, not all, but alot of them.
So maybe people couldn't have even afforded to treat their dog
now get a treatment because they're enrolled in the trial,
which is really fabulous. I mentioned the oleander that
we're doing right. This is my company, Doctor
(22:22):
Fossum's Pet Care, and what we found out when we started really
looking at the oleander. I mentioned the antiviral and
then the cancer. At some point, I hope that we
get a opportunity to test. But the other thing we started,
I started looking at the profileof what Oleander does to
(22:44):
cytokines in cells, and it was pretty much exactly what some of
the anti itch products out theredo, except that it doesn't
suppress the immune system and the current anti itch products
are highly immunosuppressive. Yeah, I wanted to come out with
a product that wasn't going to cost people 90, 110 bucks a
(23:07):
month because, yeah, when dogs itch, they're miserable.
People are miserable. A lot of people can't afford 100
bucks a month to stop their dog itching.
So we came out with this oral product, 45 bucks a month.
And then we've got a leave in conditioner we're working on in
a tropical spray. Again, this has got oleander in
(23:29):
it at very low doses, very effective.
So we're pretty excited. So that's what I like to do is
try and figure out, like I said,either it's an unmet need,
meaning there's no product out there that's really good for
that disease or the products that are out there are too
expensive for a lot of people. Can we come up with something
(23:49):
that's a little cheaper and natural?
That's sort of the realm that I'm living in these.
I have a question for you, your dog trainer.
Talk to people about the difference between being a dog
trainer and a behaviorist, because I think a lot of people
probably wouldn't know. Honestly, I'm actually working
(24:10):
towards becoming a behaviorist dog trainer because there is a
difference, right? A dog trainer works more on
things like obedience and just your general everyday kind of
stuff. He'll behaviorist.
Yeah, a behaviorist digs more into the root of the cause.
Why is the dog doing this? Why did the dog all of a sudden,
(24:35):
all of a sudden let me do with my air quotes here, bite the
neighbor? Why did the dog that's walked by
100 times all of a sudden now get into a scuffle with my dog
instead of just thinking, oh, it's time to get my dog on
medication or we need to train the dog to not do that?
(24:55):
I look for the root cause of whythe dog is doing the behavior
because while training is important and it gives a dog
structure in their daily life, dogs are also emotional,
sentient beings that have thoughts and feelings about
things that happen around them. And they also have a way of
(25:17):
communicating with us and with other dogs.
Not a lot of people tune into, right?
They don't see it because they don't understand and dog body
language or dog brain just in general.
And so they miss all of those little tiny signs that are
building up to these bigger events that come out of nowhere
(25:37):
and they don't understand. So the trainer would come in and
teach you how to teach your dog to sit, how to teach your dog to
lay down, how to your dog to walk on a leash.
And I do all of those things, but I also help owners
understand what their dog's big feelings are and why they're
having them. And that is the difference is I
(25:58):
put emotion into what I'm doing and a lot of dog trainers don't.
That thank you so much for doingthat.
That was a great description of what the 2 are.
And it's really important that people know that, right?
Because you don't want them going to their dog trainer for
what is really a behavioral issue is not going to help.
And I will tell you as when I lost my 14 year old lab, we got
(26:22):
another story. I always have two labs at a
time, which means my house is full of dog hair all the time.
Yeah, but one of the best thingswe did with our new Lab puppy is
we took him to the dog trainer and so we got him.
So he knows. He said he knows.
So, you know, get on his place, but he does all that kind of
stuff. But you know, again, it's so
important for people to realize that's training behavior is a
(26:45):
different issue. So you, I don't know what your
training program is like, but like there's board certification
in behavior medicine. But tell, tell us about your
training. I didn't go through any of the
schools that are out there. There's tons of dog training
schools. I actually went through several
mentorship programs where I learned from other trainers
(27:08):
who've been training for longer amounts of time.
I did a behavior one. I did just a basic.
This is how I trained. I train dogs virtually, so when
I work with my clients, they submit videos to me every day,
which gives me a picture into their world and actually allows
me to see their dog's behavior, right?
(27:29):
Because I can see how they're interacting one-on-one with
their dogs versus them trying todescribe it or me only showing
up once a week and then them nothaving any guidance the rest of
the week. They get to check in every
single day, which gives us more of a baseline of what's actually
happening. And then I also have done some
service dog mentorship training as well.
(27:51):
So I've been working on learninghow to train service dogs
because that's a totally different realm of training as
well. I just think that it's important
to learn from many different people and unfortunately a lot
of the training schools that areout there right now are very
strict and you can either be force free or you can be
(28:11):
balanced, or you're kind of combination of the two, or
you're kind of like me, which ismore in the Gray area where I
understand the need for E collars and prong collars for
safety. But I don't actually teach
people how to use them. I teach people how to build a
trusting, loving relationship with their dogs so that everyone
(28:32):
feels confident and works collaboratively together instead
of miss mass chaos everywhere. So I teach the basics, but I
also can teach a wider array of things because I I don't like to
fit inside of a box, right? Because I don't think that my
whole tagline for the show is every dog is different and every
(28:53):
human is too. So you have to be flexible and
you have to work with people on what their issues are and not
just say, OK, every single person is going to do sit, down,
stay place. And then we're going to go in
this order with all of these things with a leash.
Well, that's not how it works. Sometimes I teach people leash
skills before I even worry aboutsit or stay or place or any of
(29:17):
that stuff because they live in an apartment or they live in an
area where they're out on a farmand they don't need leash
skills. They need stay and they need
boundaries. And it really just depends on
what each individual needs and trying to go to a trainer that
is going to just box you in and make you a cookie cutter plan,
(29:39):
it's just not effective anymore.Especially with, like I said
earlier, all of the breeding problems that we have and then
the behavioral problems we have because of that.
There's too many dogs that need specialized help.
And now people are ending up going to four, 5-6 different
trainers because they continue to go to these same trainers
that have this. This is the mentality and it's
(30:01):
damaging dogs, unfortunately. I mean I the mistake I did that
too. One thing we should probably
make sure that people understandis one of the first things when
you think your dog has a behavioral issue is you want to
make sure that they're not acting out from pain.
That's a huge one. Do you want to differentiate
that? Because it could be that they
have a disc and you touch your back and it's really painful,
(30:25):
but you think that is a behaviorthing.
So that's one of the first things is see your veterinarian,
make sure that there's no obvious disease or painful
condition that could be causing it.
And then I wanted to ask you, because I'm so curious, you
mentioned that you trained service dogs.
What we What's different about training a service?
(30:46):
Like, inherently different. Service dogs are mostly focused
on task training. Yes, they have to learn how to
do certain things. They have to heal beautifully.
They have to stay by your side. They have to know all of the
skills really, really well, likegoing under a chair at a
restaurant and staying out of the way.
They can't walk up to people andinteract with them.
(31:08):
There are very strict rules whenit comes to service dogs.
But the tasking is so finessed because they have to know when
your heart rate is dropping and you need your medication.
So they have to go and retrieve your bag and, and get your pills
to you or your blood sugar medicine, or they need to bring
(31:28):
you a bottle of orange juice based on the way that you you
smell. So it's it's just really
incredible because there's all kinds of things that you have to
teach them, like the scent of your heart palpitations in order
to then teach them. Retrieve this specific item and
bring it to me because you smellthis or jump on me and Alert me
(31:50):
that I need to sit down because I'm about to black out.
Because you smell this smell. It's very, very finessed.
Do people really even realize that we have dogs that can smell
glucose and so when their when their blood sugar drops
glycemia, these dogs can sense that.
And just to give you an idea, I live in the in carefree Arizona,
(32:14):
so just north of Scottsdale. And there was a little girl in
Scottsdale a few years ago who her glucose dropped in the
middle of the night and the dog went and woke the parents up.
They went in the room, took her to the emergency clinic.
And this is not like a one time thing.
This happens across the US all the time.
(32:36):
But the doctor said if they'd have waited half an hour, she
would have been dead. So this dog literally sensed her
low glucose and saved her life. And I think a lot of people
think of service dogs. They think of sort of maybe
mobility dogs, a big dog lean onwhen you're a little unstable,
(32:56):
you don't have balance. But there are dogs out there
that smell glucose. There are dogs out there that
smell cancer. The dogs are amazing and what?
Are migraines, heart attacks, cancer, heart palpitations, all
of the things. Anxiety.
Yeah. Seizures.
(33:17):
It's it's incredible. And a lot of times people don't
realize how complex it is. And that's where the whole
argument with service dogs gets kind of mixed up and muddied
because people see a service dogand they ask, well, what's your
service dog for? You don't look like you need a
service dog. Something that, you know, I
(33:37):
share with my audience a lot is I had brain surgery.
I have a Chiari malformation, which is a overgrown brainstem.
I had to have surgery for it. I had to have it decompressed.
I'm supposed to have a service dog.
I don't currently have a servicedog because the dog that I got
washed and I'm supposed to have one because I could have
potential falls. But people see my friends who
(33:57):
have service dogs all the time walking around and say things
like, oh, well, you're so pretty.
You don't look like you need a service dog.
Why do you have a service dog? It's because there has been such
a misconception and people don'trealize that there are heart
conditions, there are liver conditions, there are cancers,
there are brain conditions, things like that, that are in
invisible that you can't see. And people look like normal
(34:19):
people, but they actually reallyneed this dog.
And here you are distracting thedog because you just don't know
better. And that's why education on that
topic is a huge proponent of mine.
So agree, and it hasn't helped though, that I think a lot of
people took advantage of the emotional support.
You know, they, they went online, they bought jackets and
(34:40):
took their dogs on planes. So they were emotional support.
I had a airline, Sears, tell me she had an emotional support
Turkey vulture on a flight one time.
What? Yeah.
So I mean, people just took it to the extreme.
Luckily, I do think the airlinesare sort of, yeah, buckling down
on that, but. Yeah.
And there is definitely have been some changes in the airline
(35:03):
industry with that. Just because an emotional
support animal does not equate Atrained animal.
A service dog does equate A trained animal.
And while you may need an emotional support animal for
anxiety, depression, whatever, there should also be some, I
think stricter rules about how that animal should behave or
(35:25):
they should have some kind of qualifying papers or something,
not just something that you go pay 20 or 100 bucks for online
without any actual training or anything.
There should be some kind of program that helps people do
that so that their animal behaves appropriately.
But again, unregulated industry.And this is a quick way to make
(35:45):
a buck. And so we're going to do it this
way, which is really unfortunatefor people who do have service
dogs who then suffer the consequences because they have
to fight to have their service dog who's actually really well
behaved and really well trained because somebody brought an
emotional support on that bit. The flight attendant or the kid
(36:06):
in the next style over or a cat got out and, you know, peed all
over the seats and stuff becausepeople are not thinking about
those things, which is unfortunate.
But unfortunately there are a lot of people in this world that
just kind of don't think about those things or how it affects
other people. And I can tell you that people
with disabilities and people with service dogs, they do, they
(36:27):
worry constantly about whether their dog is going to bother
someone or if it's going to disrupt a situation or how can
and they keep this contained or how can they keep people from
petting their dog. All of the things, they worry
about it constantly. And that's a difference.
That's a huge difference, Yeah. And then you see those dogs in
the airports that are to make people happy.
(36:50):
Those are usually trained service dogs that are at those
stations for people to pet, and if they're not, they are
emotional support animals that are also trained and willing to
accept pets from people. A lot of people don't understand
that human behavior and emotion effects dog behavior and
emotions. So if I'm upset and I'm stressed
(37:11):
out, my dog smells that, my dog feels that, and my dog reacts
differently because of that. And that chain of events can
lead to why didn't my dog just randomly bite that person?
Well, you have been stressed outfor four days.
You've been yelling with your partner, you've been yelling at
your kids, you've been grumblingat the dog, and now this random
(37:35):
person walked by, spooked your dog and your dog bit them
because they have been racking up their anxiety level for four
days along with you and that wastheir outlet.
Wasn't a good choice and we justhave to teach them to make
better choices. Love that, love that.
So it's so nice to have people like you.
Oh. I appreciate that.
(37:56):
It's just as important as anything else that we do is, you
know, behavior and how they fit into our lives and.
Yeah, Yeah. Well, and I love what you're
doing because I think that any way that we can find what the
world provides to us as a resource, and we typically look
at it in a negative way like Oleander and find a way to make
(38:19):
it so that is a positive becauseeverything here on this earth is
here for a reason, right? And if we take the time and do
the research and figure out how we can use those things to help
other people, help other dogs, we're really moving forward into
a better future for everyone. So I love that you have an
arrangement of products that caters to these areas that we do
(38:43):
need them. And I had no idea that about CBD
that that was unregulated like that for dogs.
I figured it was more regulated because it's regulated for
people so harshly. It's actually not in the human.
It's not either. There are, you know, in the
human field there are several CBD products have been approved
(39:03):
for really rare seizure conditions and children.
That's it. That's all that's been approved
on the human side. So most CBD that's being sold
even for humans and honestly there is no difference between
the products sold for veterinaryand humans.
Like our products at Doctor Fossum's Pet Care are human
(39:26):
grade products. There's just no difference.
The thing that actually has frustrated me the most is that
what happened in the CBD world is a lot of the human companies
decided, well, we can just get into the veterinary field too.
Let's make an animal product. But they spent zero time
(39:46):
figuring out how to dose it. So I would have people come in
with these and they say it's notworking and obviously well how
much you giving and like they don't know and then I'd look at
it and I try and figure it out and there wasn't even enough
information on the label to figure out how they were dosing
this product. That's the biggest problem.
People, some people were dosing it.
We dosed it 2 milligrams per kilogram twice a day.
(40:09):
Some of these people were giving.2 milligrams per kilogram and
wondering why it wasn't working.Yeah, so they spent no time and
it kind of makes sense because on the human side they tend to
say you're an adult, take one tablet.
But you know, we see 2 LB dogs and £150 dogs, that doesn't
work. So we dose by weight, and a lot
(40:31):
of these human companies seem not to figure that out.
Yeah, I feel like that's kind ofthe same when it comes to, you
know, just medication in general.
I know that dosing by weight is super important with dogs
because I worked in the veterinary space for 10 years
and you can't give the same amount of anesthesia to a 2 LB
Chihuahua that you give to 150 LB mass.
(40:52):
If it's just not, it doesn't work, you're going to kill you
do that and it's, you know, that's not OK.
Again, it's just one of those areas that, you know, people who
don't have the experience, who don't go behind that treatment
room door, they don't understandthose things.
And and like you said, there's alot of medications out there
that says, you know, if you're over the age of 12, take this
(41:14):
amount and if you're under the age of 12, take this amount.
But how does that equate? If I am £130, but then this man
over here is £250, how does thatwork?
Because you're still not gettingthe right amount of milligrams
per pound and the bloodstream and metabolism and all those
(41:34):
things that factor in. So it's kind of wild to me that
there are so many things that are just, like I said, put in
little boxes and categorized a certain way and we make blanket
statements or prescriptions or whatever and it just really
doesn't fit the need or the situation properly.
Yeah, what happened in the CBD world, interestingly enough, was
(41:54):
that the state licensing boards really failed to give guidance
to Venereans. So Venereans are afraid, still
are, even though they're so commonly used, but they were
afraid to even tie. In fact, in some states it was
against the for veterinarians. It's illegal in Iowa.
CBD products for dogs? That's illegal.
Even in California there for a while it was illegal to talk
(42:16):
about CBD. What does that mean?
People had to get their information somewhere.
Where are they going to go to, Doctor?
Google. Instead of That's exactly why I
started this podcast because I went down the black hole of
Google and I was like, this is terrible.
I'm not getting answers. This is even more frustrating,
and I could make a really big mistake here that could hurt one
(42:37):
of my dogs, and I'm not OK with that.
So I started the podcast so thatI could have people like you
come on and say, you can try these products.
You can go to your veterinarian and you can make a safe decision
based on what you've learned here.
And if you have questions, you can reach out to Doctor Terry
and ask her instead of going down the Google hole because
(43:00):
it's dangerous. It is.
And you know, instead of Google Now, you know, you go on ChatGPT
and you ask it about, but it makes stuff up.
So you know people, I'm sure people recognize that.
But I asked it a medical question and it gave me the name
of a veterinarian and a reference and that paper didn't
exist. A journal didn't exist and I
(43:22):
don't think the veterinarian existed.
So I think it made it all up. So I do want to caution people
probably know that, but be a little careful even with like
things like AI now because they're not always accurate.
They're definitely not always, always accurate.
And when I tell people to do your research, I mean do your
research. Reach out to the guests that are
on the show, read the articles that are provided to you, follow
(43:44):
my blog and connect with the resources that I'm giving to you
because these are people who genuinely want to help you.
These are people who have genuine education and experience
and resources for you that are actually viable.
Because you wouldn't be here if I did, if I didn't think that
you weren't valuable resource for people.
(44:06):
We really believe in educating veterans because they're the
first line for us, but we also recognize that owners need to be
educated as well. So on our website, there's a CBD
video for owners. Owners want to go in and learn a
little bit more. We wanted some videos, some
webinars out there that people could access.
(44:27):
This week's Talk to Human Translator is for anyone
watching their dog age and wondering what's normal.
Here's the truth. Confusion, pacing, staring at
walls, forgetting routines. Those aren't just signs of
getting old, they're signs that your dog's brain needs support.
We talk so much about joint careand diet, but brain health
(44:49):
matters just as much. So this week I want you to pay
attention. If your dog starts doing things
that feel off, don't write it off as just age.
Talk to your vet, ask about cognitive support, and look for
products that are backed by research like Doctor Fossum's.
Because sometimes the differencebetween decline and recovery is
(45:10):
just noticing early. What would you like to leave the
listeners with today? We talked about dementia in
dogs. One of the things I really want
people to understand is that a lot of dogs out there that are
older start showing symptoms andpeople think it's normal aging
and it's not. It actually can be reversed.
(45:33):
So I'd like to leave with the message that if you have an
older dog and they're starting to do things like act confused,
stand in a corner, they forget how to go outside where they're
supposed to go to the bathroom. So they have accidents in the
house. Or as we talked about, they walk
around at night and they vocalize that may be dementia.
(45:54):
So don't write it off as normal aging.
Talk to your vet your and try totreat it because you may have a
couple more years if you do that.
We have people that call crying because they've had more time
with their dog. That's a beautiful gift to give
people. It's so hard.
I had a dog when I was 16. It was my first childhood dog
that he was put down because he had dementia.
(46:16):
So it makes me feel so wonderfulto know that there are things
that are out there now that we can do to help our pets when
they're in distress like that and hopefully get that extra
time with them. Today's episode reminded us that
innovation doesn't always mean new technology.
Sometimes. It means revisiting what nature
already gave us. From CBD to oleander.
(46:39):
Dr. Fossum's work proves that natural and science based can
coexist beautifully, and that paying attention to small shifts
in our dog's health can give us more good days together.
If you'd like to learn more about Doctor Fossum's research
or her products for brain and joint health, the link is in the
show notes. So be kind, spread joy, and
(47:00):
remember. Noticing the small changes is
how we protect protect the big moments.
This episode is brought to you by PET.
Matrix, the science driven premium canine supplement
company on a mission to help dogs thrive at every stage of
life. Their advanced cell matrix
delivery technology fuels Wellness, right?
At the cellular level so your dog gets real results where it
(47:22):
counts, just like mine have. With move you're supporting
joints, bones and recovery. With think you are helping calm
the nervous system and sharpen focus, and with protect your.
You're getting gut health and immunity.
Don't sit on the sidelines when it comes to your dog's health.
Jump into the pet matrix today and see the difference.
Thank you for listening to the dog.
(47:43):
Who asks for more? If you've.
Understood in the pet. Aisle feeling totally
overwhelmed, or if meal time at home feels stressful because
your dog turns up their nose or you're constantly second
guessing what's actually healthy.
You are not alone. That's why I.
Created the free Mini Bowl Blueprint, a simple step by step
guide with three easy swaps to make feeding easy here more
(48:04):
nutritious and something you canfinally feel confident about
without breaking the bank. You'll find the link in the
episode description. Go grab your copy and start
making better bowl choices today.
New episodes drop every Monday and Wednesday.
I'll see you next time.
What if the next big breakthrough in dog health
didn't come from a lab, but fromlove, loss and listening to the
dogs who needed more? Welcome to the dog who asked for
more, The podcast helping dog parents who feel stuck and
overwhelmed by their pup finallylet go of the guilt.
Learn to communicate clearly andbuild the bond you've always
(00:20):
dreamed of through a partnershipbased approach that combines
training, nutrition, and enrichment instead of chasing
the quick fixes that don't actually work.
And in this episode, you'll learn how Doctor Terry Fossum
turned decades of surgical experience into groundbreaking
natural products for dogs. Why CBD, oleander and other
(00:43):
natural ingredients might hold the key to treating pain, itch,
and even dementia. What you need to know about
supplement regulation, dosing, and why so many pet products
don't actually do what they promise.
I am a board certified veterinarian surgeon.
Let me tell you what that entails.
As a veterinarian, you go to veterinary school for four years
(01:06):
and then you can practice right out.
So it's not like being a physician where you have to do
an internship and a residency. My husband is a veterinary
cardiologist, but both of my boys are physicians.
So I've sort of lived both thoseworlds and it and it is
different. So as when you graduate from
veterinary school, you can go into practice or you can decide
(01:29):
to special. If you decide to specialize,
it's typically a year of sort ofdoing everything, we call it an
internship. And then the residency at least
in surgery is 3 years after that.
And all you do is surgery and then you take an exam and if you
pass that exam, you're known as a board certified surgeon.
(01:51):
So we're the people that get referrals from general
practitioners, they'll look at adog and it might require a total
hip replacement or heart surgery, and they're not
prepared to do that. So they would refer that to
somebody like me. And we have specialists in just
about every area. So like I said, my husband's a
(02:12):
veterinary cardiologist, but we have dermatologists,
ophthalmologists, neurologists, radiologists, you name it,
they're in the veterinary field.And a lot of people don't
realize that when you're a surgeon, it's pretty awesome.
You deal one-on-one with people and you help one animal at a
time. And I did that for the majority
(02:33):
of my career. I spent 26 years in academics at
1 university and then became vice president for research at
another university. And then I quit and started my
own company. And what I wanted to do was help
multiple animals at a time, not just one animal.
And so the area that we got intowas really looking for natural
(02:57):
products that would meet an unmet medical niche.
And a lot of times they've been problems that my own dogs have
had. I I'm a Labrador person and I
recently lost him, but I had a 14 year old Labrador whom was
the love of my life. He had a condition called elbow
(03:20):
dysplasia, which they're born with but they get osteoarthritis
as they age. And so at when he got older he
started having serious trouble with that.
So one of the things I did is I was like well I cannot put him
on non steroidals. He has some kidney disease and
non steroidal anti inflammatories are really hard
(03:41):
on the gut and the kidneys. So I didn't want to put them on
a non steroidal and so I startedlooking through the literature
to see what else was out there. And that was about the time CBD
came out. So I started researching it.
But what was really apparent wasthat most of the products that
were being marketed online were fraudulent to just, I'll just
(04:07):
say they're fraudulent because they didn't meet their label
claims. Some of them said they had CBD
in them and they didn't have any.
Some of them said they didn't have any THC.
And you know, dogs are much moresensitive to THC than people,
and yet they did have a lot of THC in them because there's no
regulation. It's not like going through the
FDA and getting approval. There's no regulation for
(04:30):
supplements in the animal space.And so actually the same thing
is true in the human space. About 70% of the products were
fraudulent. So I decided, well, how
difficult could this be? I'm going to just make my own.
So we did that with CBD. And then the next thing I faced
with my dog is cognitive dysfunction.
It's called doggy dementia. It's Alzheimer's disease in dogs
(04:53):
with the difference that is actually more treatable in dogs.
We can reverse the signs in dogswhere it's kind of difficult,
usually do that in people, although hopefully new meds are
going to be coming about. But what we did is we took a
bunch of brain health ingredients.
I have a friend who's a veterinary neurologist and I
(05:13):
asked him, when you get a dog inthat's showing signs of
dementia, what would you put them on?
He goes, well, if I had my choice, I'd put them on eleven
ingredients. But no owner is going to go out
and buy eleven ingredients and give that to their dog.
And so we decided we could do that.
We could buy those eleven ingredients, package them and
(05:35):
sell them. And so he did a study.
Once we'd made that product, theneurologist, Curtis Dewey did a
small study, but what we saw wasabout a 38% improvement in
cognitive function in 30 days. Kind of interesting that the
thing with cognitive dysfunctionin dogs is one of the things
(05:56):
that they show is their sleep wake cycle reverses.
So these dogs, you've probably seen them, these dogs become
active at night. They both localized at night, so
they keep their owners awake. So we always kind of joke we're
selling sleep because these dogsquickly stop doing that and you
know, they're, they're, they become attentive to their owners
(06:16):
during the day. They start sleeping at night.
So that's, that's pretty awesome.
Pretty amazing to see that change.
So those are the types of thingsthat we work on, these ones that
are natural products that will meet these unmet niches and and
improve the quality of life of dogs and cats.
That's incredible, incredibly important because as you said,
(06:36):
there are not a whole lot of regulations in dog world anyway,
right? Food, supplements, treats, all
of it is a lot of just marketingon a package.
It's not really regulated. There are kind of rules that
come from AFCO, but they're not really that great and they
haven't been updated since 2006.I love when I find people who
(06:58):
are taking the system that we currently have and throwing a
wrench in it because the system that we have right now is so
outdated and it is so I don't even know what the right word
for it is. It's just, it's old and it's
crickety and it doesn't work anymore and it's.
Too expensive. Most people don't know this to
(07:20):
get a dog approved through the FDA.
Even the FDA CBM right is minimally 8,000,000 bucks.
You know, probably more like gosh, but but nothing like the
human side. So if you have a drug that you
want to get approved and you start with your preclinical work
(07:41):
on the human side, your odds of actually getting registered on
the other side is 3.4%, 3.4%. That is why drug costs are so
ridiculous these days, because we have to pay for all those
failures, all those other 90, you know, 7% are where we paid
(08:05):
for a good part of the studies on those to get them approved
and they fail. And so one of the things, this
is an aside, but one of the things I am passionate about is
let's stop doing studies in a species that doesn't matter for
people. And that's rodents.
Mice and rats do not represent the human condition well, and
(08:27):
yet still something like 98% of all preclinical studies are done
in rodents. We can cure cancer in the mouse
every day. It doesn't work in people.
Let's take a more predictive animal species, Which which is
dogs that get the same diseases as people naturally.
They get them, let's not create them, and let's use those dogs
(08:49):
as the animal model for our human approval process.
It's done occasionally. It needs to be done a lot more
and then we'd see fewer failuresand that would mean drug costs
would come down. So when you say naturally
occurring, you're talking about setting up an opportunity for
people who have dogs that have cancer to go through these
(09:09):
trials. That is exactly what I'm talking
about. For example, when you're looking
at a rodent with a cancer, theirimmune system can't be
functional because if you give them a human cancer, they're
going to see that As for it, andtheir immune system's going to,
you know, do whatever to it, getrid of it, hopefully.
So you're really testing withoutan intact immune system.
(09:32):
Dogs that come in and get these cancers naturally have an intact
immune system. They have the comorbidities that
people would have. That's the population you want
to test in and they benefit fromthat.
The only thing I always tell people is as long as your safety
data and we know this drug is not going to harm your pet, we
(09:54):
seldom have anything to lose by trying it because for most of
these, we don't have a good therapy.
Let me give you an example of something I'm working on.
It's been one of the more interesting things I'm working
on. I would say one of the more
difficult things I've ever worked on.
A couple years ago I got asked to take a look at oleander.
I live in Arizona and oleander grows everywhere here and it's
(10:18):
very toxic. It's a flower, correct?
It's a it's a flowering Bush, anornamental Bush.
Really pretty OK Bush grows everywhere where I live in
Texas. Anywhere where it's hot and dry
it grows. A company had been researching
oleander for over 20 years for for human Indications.
(10:38):
A couple years ago they reached out and they said we'd really
like to go with the into the veterinary market with Oleander.
So I started looking at it and at first I was like, Oh my gosh,
this is toxic. Why?
Why? But then when I really looked at
the data, it was pretty excitingin a number of ways.
One, an indirect antiviral because it boosts the immune
(11:01):
system so much that it can clearthese viral infections.
And so we've looked at it for some pig viral diseases and
right now we're looking at it. We're writing a grant for avian
influenza because we work through a mechanism that is
required for the viral proteins to fold.
(11:25):
They need this protein called group 78 and we down regulate
that. Oleander down regulates that to
the point where the viral proteins don't get folded so
they're not infected. And we do that at micromolar
doses. So we're dosing it really,
really, really tiny levels and we're getting rid of these
(11:45):
viruses. Really exciting.
But one of the things I'm potentially, I was excited and
haven't done anything because I have to raise money to test
this, but there was a group out of the University of Edinboro
that were looking for cenolytics.
Cenolytics, our cells, our cellsaren't meant to divide forever.
(12:06):
Our cells are meant to divide certain number of times and then
they get old and they start making mistakes and so they're
supposed to die. But we have a population of
cells that go, not going to die.I'm just going to quit dividing
and then you're not not going tobe able to kill me.
Those are called senescence cells, or some people call them
zombie cells. And now a lot of people believe
(12:28):
that those zombie cells are responsible for aging and the
diseases static aging. And so if we could use a
synolytic and get rid of those senescent cells, we would do a
couple things right? We would reduce aging, maybe
enhance longevity. But the other thing that I'm
(12:49):
just so excited about, if I could raise the money, we do
this test so when we give chemotherapeutics, we drive
cells into senescence, and thosecells are not going to be killed
by your chemotherapeutic. And there's increasing belief
that those senescent cells are just hanging out.
(13:10):
You know, you're getting your chemo, the dividing cells are
dying, but these senescence cells are just hanging out and
then you stop and then they go, now is my chance and they head
to the lung and they become yourmeth.
And so we believe that if we could give the standard of care
chemo, so whatever the chemo that's used for that tumor, but
(13:32):
add oleander so that we also gotthose senescent cells, we could
potentially prevent those Mets. Wow, which would be huge.
I mean, think about osteosarcomain dogs.
I mean, they always die from their pulmonary Mets, right?
Even though we radiograph them, their lungs are clear.
We start them on their chemo, it's six months to a year later,
(13:56):
they all have Mets in their lungand they all die.
Do you have statistics for the percentage of dogs that
currently get cancer in the in the world population or even in
the United States population? I you know, it would used to be
like one out of one out of everysix dogs, I think is the last
(14:18):
statistic I heard. It's probably much lower than
that. I can't give you an exact
number. And I will tell you the reason
is this. We don't have the kind of
reporting that they do on the human side.
And so I really think any of those numbers you see need to be
taken with a grain of salt. There is a registry called the
Charge Registry, which is tryingto get people to add cancers
(14:40):
into a registry. Because the ideal would be as if
we could with this take charge registry, if we could identify
where these animals are and thenwe could have rolled them into,
you know, clinical trials. But but by and large, I would
say I don't think we really know.
But if I had to guess, if you take an older animal, it's
probably 1:00 and 2:00 or 1:00 or 1:00 and 3:00.
But again, just a guess. Don't hold me that, but it's
(15:04):
it's a lot. You know, these older that's
high. Yeah, that's so sad.
In your experience, what do you think are contributing factors
to that to dogs and cancer? That's a great question because
I've always thought that dogs are really the Canary in the
coal mine for cancer for people and that if, you know, we could
(15:26):
identify areas. So this goes back again to a
registry where we, you know, getanimals put in various areas.
But if we saw an uptick in cancers in a particular area
that might suggest as environmental and that we will
be seeing that in people becauseI think dogs, you're going to
see everything you can't do. It's very difficult to do
(15:48):
prevention and people when theirlifespan is maybe 80 years.
And when do you start your prevention?
How long do you follow him? But when you have a dog whose
lifespan is probably maximally 14, you start him at 8:00, not
that many years to follow him. Prevention is best done in a
species that doesn't live so long.
(16:09):
To your point, yeah, I do think environment is probably part of
it for sure. Genetics we part of it too.
I mean, Oh my gosh, the number of French Bulldogs that we see
now with not just respiratory issues, but neurologic issues,
like they surpassed dachshunds these days.
(16:31):
I've heard that they're like thenumber one most breeded breed in
general right now, which I mean,screams that there's probably
some inbreeding and just misbreeding of other things in
general, which is terrible because people are charging
$5000 for a French Bulldog and you have absolutely no idea if
(16:53):
that French Bulldog has a good genetic history or not.
And it's, it's, it's terrifying.And then these dogs get sick, we
lose them at early ages and people are like, well, what
happened? Well, what happened is people
are just trying to make money and they're not concerned about
the health of the dog, which is kind of terrifying.
(17:14):
So talk a little bit about this registry, this charge, how, how
can people look into this and bea part of this if they have a
dog that has cancer and they're potentially interested in seeing
what you guys have to offer? Yeah.
So you can go online and take charge registry and people can
upload or encourage their veterinarians to upload their
(17:34):
records to the site. So go in, take a look.
It's it's it's young, it's not as well developed as we would
like, but we are still working on it, trying to get that
information in there. So one of the ideas behind the
registry was to try and get moreinformation about how common
cancers are different cancers and how come they are and very
(17:56):
species and stuff, which is going to take a lot of cases to
really be able to do that. But I think we could identify
these animals that could get enrolled in clinical trials.
And there are veterinary clinicsthat are doing that.
You know, there are some out there that they really strongly
believe in research and clinicaltrials and using natural models.
(18:18):
I've had a career where I've done experimental work, usually
not in dogs, thank goodness, because that's always, it was
heartbreaking and I've always hated it.
And I've always thought there had to be a better way.
And I think that better way is to identify dogs with naturally
occurring disease. I mean, they have now almost
every disease that people get, dogs get, except coronary.
(18:39):
We really don't see that. But cancer is pretty much the
same. A lot of heart disease in dogs,
a lot of both congenital and acquired mitral valve disease,
pericardial disease, you name it, infection.
Diabetes. Yeah.
Yeah, it's, it's wild to me. I'm, I'm kind of with you.
I never understood lab testing. I, I have such a hard time with
(19:02):
it because we're literally breeding animals so that we can
make them sick and then try to make them better and then this
large percentage of them dies and it just seems so cruel to
me. I I have always had such a
problem with it. And so much like animals in
captivity, I also, I struggle with that as well because I
(19:22):
understand that there are physical facilities that are
there for rehabilitation purposes or to keep animals that
can't survive out in the wild ontheir own.
One of my favorite examples of that is the Monterey Bay
Aquarium, where they have all ofthose rehabilitated animals and
they keep them there because they can't go back out into the
(19:42):
wild. And I think that it's so
important that we have things like that.
But I also don't think that keeping wild animals for our
entertainment is fair either. So I am definitely interested in
following this progression that you're on here and seeing what
you're up to. Because I think that if we could
work with animals that were sickand potentially help them, like
(20:06):
clinical trials with people, we could be helping dog parents, we
could be helping dogs, but we could also be helping people's
mental health as well because it's hard when our dogs get
sick, especially with something like cancer.
I have a friend who has a dog who and they have been going
through. Cancer treatment, I think for
two years now and he's been cancer free this this whole
(20:29):
time. But it was the second time he'd
had cancer. It's just, you know, constantly.
Is he going to be OK? Is it, is it going to come back?
And they have to have a check every month.
It would be so neat if there wassomething out there that was
actually helping them get through this and process it and
hopefully keep him healthy through the end of his life.
Because he's an older, he's an older golden retriever.
(20:51):
It takes a lot out of them mentally and emotionally to care
for that animal, to worry about that animal, to give the
medications every day to make sure that the activity level
isn't too stressful and, and allof the things.
And then again, the expense likeyou mentioned is extremely high.
So it's just so sad and so hard.And I I think that if we could
(21:15):
find ways to partner like through clinical trials, we
would be solving problems for a lot of people and dogs.
But most people don't recognize is that a lot of studies to get
products approved in humans are done in dogs.
But we don't always get that information.
But that's typically the safety data that we would use to say we
(21:37):
know that this is going to be safe for your dog at this given
dose. Now let's test for efficacy.
And most people are going to be fine with that.
The compliance rate in veterinary clinical trials is
actually much higher than human trials, which kind of makes
sense, right? If you're sick, driving yourself
in for a trial, you feel nauseous that morning, you may
not want to go, but you can get your dog in there if your dog
(22:00):
doesn't feel well for the trial.So yeah, the compliance rate is
usually higher. A lot of the cost will get paid
for by the study, not all, but alot of them.
So maybe people couldn't have even afforded to treat their dog
now get a treatment because they're enrolled in the trial,
which is really fabulous. I mentioned the oleander that
we're doing right. This is my company, Doctor
(22:22):
Fossum's Pet Care, and what we found out when we started really
looking at the oleander. I mentioned the antiviral and
then the cancer. At some point, I hope that we
get a opportunity to test. But the other thing we started,
I started looking at the profileof what Oleander does to
(22:44):
cytokines in cells, and it was pretty much exactly what some of
the anti itch products out theredo, except that it doesn't
suppress the immune system and the current anti itch products
are highly immunosuppressive. Yeah, I wanted to come out with
a product that wasn't going to cost people 90, 110 bucks a
(23:07):
month because, yeah, when dogs itch, they're miserable.
People are miserable. A lot of people can't afford 100
bucks a month to stop their dog itching.
So we came out with this oral product, 45 bucks a month.
And then we've got a leave in conditioner we're working on in
a tropical spray. Again, this has got oleander in
(23:29):
it at very low doses, very effective.
So we're pretty excited. So that's what I like to do is
try and figure out, like I said,either it's an unmet need,
meaning there's no product out there that's really good for
that disease or the products that are out there are too
expensive for a lot of people. Can we come up with something
(23:49):
that's a little cheaper and natural?
That's sort of the realm that I'm living in these.
I have a question for you, your dog trainer.
Talk to people about the difference between being a dog
trainer and a behaviorist, because I think a lot of people
probably wouldn't know. Honestly, I'm actually working
(24:10):
towards becoming a behaviorist dog trainer because there is a
difference, right? A dog trainer works more on
things like obedience and just your general everyday kind of
stuff. He'll behaviorist.
Yeah, a behaviorist digs more into the root of the cause.
Why is the dog doing this? Why did the dog all of a sudden,
(24:35):
all of a sudden let me do with my air quotes here, bite the
neighbor? Why did the dog that's walked by
100 times all of a sudden now get into a scuffle with my dog
instead of just thinking, oh, it's time to get my dog on
medication or we need to train the dog to not do that?
(24:55):
I look for the root cause of whythe dog is doing the behavior
because while training is important and it gives a dog
structure in their daily life, dogs are also emotional,
sentient beings that have thoughts and feelings about
things that happen around them. And they also have a way of
(25:17):
communicating with us and with other dogs.
Not a lot of people tune into, right?
They don't see it because they don't understand and dog body
language or dog brain just in general.
And so they miss all of those little tiny signs that are
building up to these bigger events that come out of nowhere
(25:37):
and they don't understand. So the trainer would come in and
teach you how to teach your dog to sit, how to teach your dog to
lay down, how to your dog to walk on a leash.
And I do all of those things, but I also help owners
understand what their dog's big feelings are and why they're
having them. And that is the difference is I
(25:58):
put emotion into what I'm doing and a lot of dog trainers don't.
That thank you so much for doingthat.
That was a great description of what the 2 are.
And it's really important that people know that, right?
Because you don't want them going to their dog trainer for
what is really a behavioral issue is not going to help.
And I will tell you as when I lost my 14 year old lab, we got
(26:22):
another story. I always have two labs at a
time, which means my house is full of dog hair all the time.
Yeah, but one of the best thingswe did with our new Lab puppy is
we took him to the dog trainer and so we got him.
So he knows. He said he knows.
So, you know, get on his place, but he does all that kind of
stuff. But you know, again, it's so
important for people to realize that's training behavior is a
(26:45):
different issue. So you, I don't know what your
training program is like, but like there's board certification
in behavior medicine. But tell, tell us about your
training. I didn't go through any of the
schools that are out there. There's tons of dog training
schools. I actually went through several
mentorship programs where I learned from other trainers
(27:08):
who've been training for longer amounts of time.
I did a behavior one. I did just a basic.
This is how I trained. I train dogs virtually, so when
I work with my clients, they submit videos to me every day,
which gives me a picture into their world and actually allows
me to see their dog's behavior, right?
(27:29):
Because I can see how they're interacting one-on-one with
their dogs versus them trying todescribe it or me only showing
up once a week and then them nothaving any guidance the rest of
the week. They get to check in every
single day, which gives us more of a baseline of what's actually
happening. And then I also have done some
service dog mentorship training as well.
(27:51):
So I've been working on learninghow to train service dogs
because that's a totally different realm of training as
well. I just think that it's important
to learn from many different people and unfortunately a lot
of the training schools that areout there right now are very
strict and you can either be force free or you can be
(28:11):
balanced, or you're kind of combination of the two, or
you're kind of like me, which ismore in the Gray area where I
understand the need for E collars and prong collars for
safety. But I don't actually teach
people how to use them. I teach people how to build a
trusting, loving relationship with their dogs so that everyone
(28:32):
feels confident and works collaboratively together instead
of miss mass chaos everywhere. So I teach the basics, but I
also can teach a wider array of things because I I don't like to
fit inside of a box, right? Because I don't think that my
whole tagline for the show is every dog is different and every
(28:53):
human is too. So you have to be flexible and
you have to work with people on what their issues are and not
just say, OK, every single person is going to do sit, down,
stay place. And then we're going to go in
this order with all of these things with a leash.
Well, that's not how it works. Sometimes I teach people leash
skills before I even worry aboutsit or stay or place or any of
(29:17):
that stuff because they live in an apartment or they live in an
area where they're out on a farmand they don't need leash
skills. They need stay and they need
boundaries. And it really just depends on
what each individual needs and trying to go to a trainer that
is going to just box you in and make you a cookie cutter plan,
(29:39):
it's just not effective anymore.Especially with, like I said
earlier, all of the breeding problems that we have and then
the behavioral problems we have because of that.
There's too many dogs that need specialized help.
And now people are ending up going to four, 5-6 different
trainers because they continue to go to these same trainers
that have this. This is the mentality and it's
(30:01):
damaging dogs, unfortunately. I mean I the mistake I did that
too. One thing we should probably
make sure that people understandis one of the first things when
you think your dog has a behavioral issue is you want to
make sure that they're not acting out from pain.
That's a huge one. Do you want to differentiate
that? Because it could be that they
have a disc and you touch your back and it's really painful,
(30:25):
but you think that is a behaviorthing.
So that's one of the first things is see your veterinarian,
make sure that there's no obvious disease or painful
condition that could be causing it.
And then I wanted to ask you, because I'm so curious, you
mentioned that you trained service dogs.
What we What's different about training a service?
(30:46):
Like, inherently different. Service dogs are mostly focused
on task training. Yes, they have to learn how to
do certain things. They have to heal beautifully.
They have to stay by your side. They have to know all of the
skills really, really well, likegoing under a chair at a
restaurant and staying out of the way.
They can't walk up to people andinteract with them.
(31:08):
There are very strict rules whenit comes to service dogs.
But the tasking is so finessed because they have to know when
your heart rate is dropping and you need your medication.
So they have to go and retrieve your bag and, and get your pills
to you or your blood sugar medicine, or they need to bring
(31:28):
you a bottle of orange juice based on the way that you you
smell. So it's it's just really
incredible because there's all kinds of things that you have to
teach them, like the scent of your heart palpitations in order
to then teach them. Retrieve this specific item and
bring it to me because you smellthis or jump on me and Alert me
(31:50):
that I need to sit down because I'm about to black out.
Because you smell this smell. It's very, very finessed.
Do people really even realize that we have dogs that can smell
glucose and so when their when their blood sugar drops
glycemia, these dogs can sense that.
And just to give you an idea, I live in the in carefree Arizona,
(32:14):
so just north of Scottsdale. And there was a little girl in
Scottsdale a few years ago who her glucose dropped in the
middle of the night and the dog went and woke the parents up.
They went in the room, took her to the emergency clinic.
And this is not like a one time thing.
This happens across the US all the time.
(32:36):
But the doctor said if they'd have waited half an hour, she
would have been dead. So this dog literally sensed her
low glucose and saved her life. And I think a lot of people
think of service dogs. They think of sort of maybe
mobility dogs, a big dog lean onwhen you're a little unstable,
(32:56):
you don't have balance. But there are dogs out there
that smell glucose. There are dogs out there that
smell cancer. The dogs are amazing and what?
Are migraines, heart attacks, cancer, heart palpitations, all
of the things. Anxiety.
Yeah. Seizures.
(33:17):
It's it's incredible. And a lot of times people don't
realize how complex it is. And that's where the whole
argument with service dogs gets kind of mixed up and muddied
because people see a service dogand they ask, well, what's your
service dog for? You don't look like you need a
service dog. Something that, you know, I
(33:37):
share with my audience a lot is I had brain surgery.
I have a Chiari malformation, which is a overgrown brainstem.
I had to have surgery for it. I had to have it decompressed.
I'm supposed to have a service dog.
I don't currently have a servicedog because the dog that I got
washed and I'm supposed to have one because I could have
potential falls. But people see my friends who
(33:57):
have service dogs all the time walking around and say things
like, oh, well, you're so pretty.
You don't look like you need a service dog.
Why do you have a service dog? It's because there has been such
a misconception and people don'trealize that there are heart
conditions, there are liver conditions, there are cancers,
there are brain conditions, things like that, that are in
invisible that you can't see. And people look like normal
(34:19):
people, but they actually reallyneed this dog.
And here you are distracting thedog because you just don't know
better. And that's why education on that
topic is a huge proponent of mine.
So agree, and it hasn't helped though, that I think a lot of
people took advantage of the emotional support.
You know, they, they went online, they bought jackets and
(34:40):
took their dogs on planes. So they were emotional support.
I had a airline, Sears, tell me she had an emotional support
Turkey vulture on a flight one time.
What? Yeah.
So I mean, people just took it to the extreme.
Luckily, I do think the airlinesare sort of, yeah, buckling down
on that, but. Yeah.
And there is definitely have been some changes in the airline
(35:03):
industry with that. Just because an emotional
support animal does not equate Atrained animal.
A service dog does equate A trained animal.
And while you may need an emotional support animal for
anxiety, depression, whatever, there should also be some, I
think stricter rules about how that animal should behave or
(35:25):
they should have some kind of qualifying papers or something,
not just something that you go pay 20 or 100 bucks for online
without any actual training or anything.
There should be some kind of program that helps people do
that so that their animal behaves appropriately.
But again, unregulated industry.And this is a quick way to make
(35:45):
a buck. And so we're going to do it this
way, which is really unfortunatefor people who do have service
dogs who then suffer the consequences because they have
to fight to have their service dog who's actually really well
behaved and really well trained because somebody brought an
emotional support on that bit. The flight attendant or the kid
(36:06):
in the next style over or a cat got out and, you know, peed all
over the seats and stuff becausepeople are not thinking about
those things, which is unfortunate.
But unfortunately there are a lot of people in this world that
just kind of don't think about those things or how it affects
other people. And I can tell you that people
with disabilities and people with service dogs, they do, they
(36:27):
worry constantly about whether their dog is going to bother
someone or if it's going to disrupt a situation or how can
and they keep this contained or how can they keep people from
petting their dog. All of the things, they worry
about it constantly. And that's a difference.
That's a huge difference, Yeah. And then you see those dogs in
the airports that are to make people happy.
(36:50):
Those are usually trained service dogs that are at those
stations for people to pet, and if they're not, they are
emotional support animals that are also trained and willing to
accept pets from people. A lot of people don't understand
that human behavior and emotion effects dog behavior and
emotions. So if I'm upset and I'm stressed
(37:11):
out, my dog smells that, my dog feels that, and my dog reacts
differently because of that. And that chain of events can
lead to why didn't my dog just randomly bite that person?
Well, you have been stressed outfor four days.
You've been yelling with your partner, you've been yelling at
your kids, you've been grumblingat the dog, and now this random
(37:35):
person walked by, spooked your dog and your dog bit them
because they have been racking up their anxiety level for four
days along with you and that wastheir outlet.
Wasn't a good choice and we justhave to teach them to make
better choices. Love that, love that.
So it's so nice to have people like you.
Oh. I appreciate that.
(37:56):
It's just as important as anything else that we do is, you
know, behavior and how they fit into our lives and.
Yeah, Yeah. Well, and I love what you're
doing because I think that any way that we can find what the
world provides to us as a resource, and we typically look
at it in a negative way like Oleander and find a way to make
(38:19):
it so that is a positive becauseeverything here on this earth is
here for a reason, right? And if we take the time and do
the research and figure out how we can use those things to help
other people, help other dogs, we're really moving forward into
a better future for everyone. So I love that you have an
arrangement of products that caters to these areas that we do
(38:43):
need them. And I had no idea that about CBD
that that was unregulated like that for dogs.
I figured it was more regulated because it's regulated for
people so harshly. It's actually not in the human.
It's not either. There are, you know, in the
human field there are several CBD products have been approved
(39:03):
for really rare seizure conditions and children.
That's it. That's all that's been approved
on the human side. So most CBD that's being sold
even for humans and honestly there is no difference between
the products sold for veterinaryand humans.
Like our products at Doctor Fossum's Pet Care are human
(39:26):
grade products. There's just no difference.
The thing that actually has frustrated me the most is that
what happened in the CBD world is a lot of the human companies
decided, well, we can just get into the veterinary field too.
Let's make an animal product. But they spent zero time
(39:46):
figuring out how to dose it. So I would have people come in
with these and they say it's notworking and obviously well how
much you giving and like they don't know and then I'd look at
it and I try and figure it out and there wasn't even enough
information on the label to figure out how they were dosing
this product. That's the biggest problem.
People, some people were dosing it.
We dosed it 2 milligrams per kilogram twice a day.
(40:09):
Some of these people were giving.2 milligrams per kilogram and
wondering why it wasn't working.Yeah, so they spent no time and
it kind of makes sense because on the human side they tend to
say you're an adult, take one tablet.
But you know, we see 2 LB dogs and £150 dogs, that doesn't
work. So we dose by weight, and a lot
(40:31):
of these human companies seem not to figure that out.
Yeah, I feel like that's kind ofthe same when it comes to, you
know, just medication in general.
I know that dosing by weight is super important with dogs
because I worked in the veterinary space for 10 years
and you can't give the same amount of anesthesia to a 2 LB
Chihuahua that you give to 150 LB mass.
(40:52):
If it's just not, it doesn't work, you're going to kill you
do that and it's, you know, that's not OK.
Again, it's just one of those areas that, you know, people who
don't have the experience, who don't go behind that treatment
room door, they don't understandthose things.
And and like you said, there's alot of medications out there
that says, you know, if you're over the age of 12, take this
(41:14):
amount and if you're under the age of 12, take this amount.
But how does that equate? If I am £130, but then this man
over here is £250, how does thatwork?
Because you're still not gettingthe right amount of milligrams
per pound and the bloodstream and metabolism and all those
(41:34):
things that factor in. So it's kind of wild to me that
there are so many things that are just, like I said, put in
little boxes and categorized a certain way and we make blanket
statements or prescriptions or whatever and it just really
doesn't fit the need or the situation properly.
Yeah, what happened in the CBD world, interestingly enough, was
(41:54):
that the state licensing boards really failed to give guidance
to Venereans. So Venereans are afraid, still
are, even though they're so commonly used, but they were
afraid to even tie. In fact, in some states it was
against the for veterinarians. It's illegal in Iowa.
CBD products for dogs? That's illegal.
Even in California there for a while it was illegal to talk
(42:16):
about CBD. What does that mean?
People had to get their information somewhere.
Where are they going to go to, Doctor?
Google. Instead of That's exactly why I
started this podcast because I went down the black hole of
Google and I was like, this is terrible.
I'm not getting answers. This is even more frustrating,
and I could make a really big mistake here that could hurt one
(42:37):
of my dogs, and I'm not OK with that.
So I started the podcast so thatI could have people like you
come on and say, you can try these products.
You can go to your veterinarian and you can make a safe decision
based on what you've learned here.
And if you have questions, you can reach out to Doctor Terry
and ask her instead of going down the Google hole because
(43:00):
it's dangerous. It is.
And you know, instead of Google Now, you know, you go on ChatGPT
and you ask it about, but it makes stuff up.
So you know people, I'm sure people recognize that.
But I asked it a medical question and it gave me the name
of a veterinarian and a reference and that paper didn't
exist. A journal didn't exist and I
(43:22):
don't think the veterinarian existed.
So I think it made it all up. So I do want to caution people
probably know that, but be a little careful even with like
things like AI now because they're not always accurate.
They're definitely not always, always accurate.
And when I tell people to do your research, I mean do your
research. Reach out to the guests that are
on the show, read the articles that are provided to you, follow
(43:44):
my blog and connect with the resources that I'm giving to you
because these are people who genuinely want to help you.
These are people who have genuine education and experience
and resources for you that are actually viable.
Because you wouldn't be here if I did, if I didn't think that
you weren't valuable resource for people.
(44:06):
We really believe in educating veterans because they're the
first line for us, but we also recognize that owners need to be
educated as well. So on our website, there's a CBD
video for owners. Owners want to go in and learn a
little bit more. We wanted some videos, some
webinars out there that people could access.
(44:27):
This week's Talk to Human Translator is for anyone
watching their dog age and wondering what's normal.
Here's the truth. Confusion, pacing, staring at
walls, forgetting routines. Those aren't just signs of
getting old, they're signs that your dog's brain needs support.
We talk so much about joint careand diet, but brain health
(44:49):
matters just as much. So this week I want you to pay
attention. If your dog starts doing things
that feel off, don't write it off as just age.
Talk to your vet, ask about cognitive support, and look for
products that are backed by research like Doctor Fossum's.
Because sometimes the differencebetween decline and recovery is
(45:10):
just noticing early. What would you like to leave the
listeners with today? We talked about dementia in
dogs. One of the things I really want
people to understand is that a lot of dogs out there that are
older start showing symptoms andpeople think it's normal aging
and it's not. It actually can be reversed.
(45:33):
So I'd like to leave with the message that if you have an
older dog and they're starting to do things like act confused,
stand in a corner, they forget how to go outside where they're
supposed to go to the bathroom. So they have accidents in the
house. Or as we talked about, they walk
around at night and they vocalize that may be dementia.
(45:54):
So don't write it off as normal aging.
Talk to your vet your and try totreat it because you may have a
couple more years if you do that.
We have people that call crying because they've had more time
with their dog. That's a beautiful gift to give
people. It's so hard.
I had a dog when I was 16. It was my first childhood dog
that he was put down because he had dementia.
(46:16):
So it makes me feel so wonderfulto know that there are things
that are out there now that we can do to help our pets when
they're in distress like that and hopefully get that extra
time with them. Today's episode reminded us that
innovation doesn't always mean new technology.
Sometimes. It means revisiting what nature
already gave us. From CBD to oleander.
(46:39):
Dr. Fossum's work proves that natural and science based can
coexist beautifully, and that paying attention to small shifts
in our dog's health can give us more good days together.
If you'd like to learn more about Doctor Fossum's research
or her products for brain and joint health, the link is in the
show notes. So be kind, spread joy, and
(47:00):
remember. Noticing the small changes is
how we protect protect the big moments.
This episode is brought to you by PET.
Matrix, the science driven premium canine supplement
company on a mission to help dogs thrive at every stage of
life. Their advanced cell matrix
delivery technology fuels Wellness, right?
At the cellular level so your dog gets real results where it
(47:22):
counts, just like mine have. With move you're supporting
joints, bones and recovery. With think you are helping calm
the nervous system and sharpen focus, and with protect your.
You're getting gut health and immunity.
Don't sit on the sidelines when it comes to your dog's health.
Jump into the pet matrix today and see the difference.
Thank you for listening to the dog.
(47:43):
Who asks for more? If you've.
Understood in the pet. Aisle feeling totally
overwhelmed, or if meal time at home feels stressful because
your dog turns up their nose or you're constantly second
guessing what's actually healthy.
You are not alone. That's why I.
Created the free Mini Bowl Blueprint, a simple step by step
guide with three easy swaps to make feeding easy here more
(48:04):
nutritious and something you canfinally feel confident about
without breaking the bank. You'll find the link in the
episode description. Go grab your copy and start
making better bowl choices today.
New episodes drop every Monday and Wednesday.
I'll see you next time.
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