January 29, 2025 • 25 mins
Q: Is the lama your boss? Big daddy? Friend? Mate? Therapist?
A: Mostly not
Then what?
Words or phrases you might want to look up:
- Jamgon Kongtrul
- Treasury of Knowledge
- Longchen Rabjampa
#Buddhism #Vajrayana #DoubleDorje #Lama
Longchen Rabjampa, one of the most famous Nyingma Lamas.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:11):
Hello, dear people, anybody who's kind enough to listen to this Double Dorje podcast. You are very welcome. I'm Alex Wilding. And today I want to share a few thoughts about just what a guru is actually for.
Before we begin properly, may I remind you please if you can, to press whatever button it is, you've got that you can use to lend a bit of support. The like button, the subscribe button, whatever.
(00:38):
In particular, if you like this podcast, it would be great if you would share with your friends and to get these little messages done quickly. I'll also remind you that there is nearly always a bit of extra material, such as words you might want to look up, or maybe a picture or two.
This material might appear on your usual platform, but often doesn't, depending on the complexities and confusifications of podcast distribution. If you can't find it where you are, take a look at Podbean where this podcast
(01:10):
is first hosted.
Now back in episode 5, which really does seem quite a while ago now, I spoke a bit about the function of the lama in a general sense, how the lama functions in meditation practise, for example.
In that episode I also mentioned how Chime Rinpoche, who was my first teacher, said that for all that, it is a denigrated term,
(01:38):
he felt that lamaism was not necessarily such a bad name for Tibetan Buddhism, in the light of how central the function of the lama is in Vajrayana. But what is it like, relating quite concretely in real life to an actual person who is your lama?
You can pick up all sorts of tips about Buddhism, including its Vajrayana version, from places like YouTube, from books and from podcasts. Yes, you might even learn a little bit here!
(02:08):
Some of this may be helpful. This is not necessarily a bad way to approach becoming a Buddhist,
although formal refuge will undoubtedly give your sense of being on the path, a big boost.
All of these sources, which I'm tempted to call second hand sources, though that might suggest that I judge them a bit more negatively than I really do. These sources will nevertheless tell you that for the Vajrayana path
(02:38):
a relationship with a qualified vajra master or guru
is quite essential.
It's the heart of the path.
And when we have met this person, what are we to expect?
The lama will not necessarily be your friend. This can happen, but it's far from certain. To be honest, it's rather unlikely.
(03:05):
On the one hand this is because, especially when we're talking about a high lama, he or she may be a fairly remote figure, someone we see upon a throne as we file past to have our head bonked during an empowerment, or perhaps sitting at the front of the hall in a teaching session.
But even if there is some time given over to question and answer in those cases, that sort of lama will be likely to have many, many students and a life that only intersects with the lives of the students on these special occasions.
(03:42):
The lama is not at all likely to be your therapist.
If you have serious mental challenges, please get help.
If, for example, you have bipolar disorder, the lithium prescribed by your psychiatrist is likely to do you more good than reciting Vajrasattva mantras. I have seen this happen. Looking back, it can be funny.
(04:08):
But at the time, it can be frightening.
The lama is also not there to solve your personal problems.
If you're having difficulty with your life partner, the lama might or might not be able to give you some tips, just as a friend might, but bear in mind, especially when we're talking about a traditional lama, especially those brought up in the old Tibetan environment,
(04:34):
have lived lives that were at the same time harsh and protected.
Lives largely isolated from normal human relationships.
This is why, sadly, they are themselves only too often emotionally and personally challenged. This is not the kind of person to tell you how to solve the problems you have with your lover or your work colleagues.
(05:01):
Better to write to the problem pages of your favourite newspaper.
And the lama is in fact not
really there to
smash your ego or smash the dualistic mind.
It is a commonplace in Buddhism that the sign of progress in the Dharma is that our self clinging or we might call it ego clinging becomes less.
(05:26):
That's great, but this is a quiet process unfolding in the depths of our heart. It doesn't mean that we have to deny who we are or to develop an infantile dependency on the words of the lama.
He is not there to be a substitute for a big daddy.
So what is he or she for?
(05:49):
To instruct you in the Dharma to guide your practise, and if the lama is a tantric lama or guru, he or she is there to channel the blessings of the Buddha in a powerfully concrete way.
And in the formal sense to give you empowerment.
(06:14):
Ever and again we are warned of the risks, and both the lama and the disciple are encouraged to examine each other thoroughly over a long period of time - 12 years is often quoted - before entering into that sort of relationship.
This is a fine warning indeed, but in practise it's entirely unrealistic.
(06:36):
It's advice that stems from another society and another era.
All the same, examining, checking, listening to what other people have to say, seeing how the lama actually behaves:
These indeed should be done, and some time should always be given to this process.
Because we westerners are sometimes a bit naive in this department, there is a tendency to meet a lama, perhaps one with a little bit of a reputation, and some students who have arranged for his or her presence.
(07:09):
Perhaps the same lama has a bit of charisma, or even a lot of charisma.
Now looking from the outside, as we all know, it's probably quite easy to guess what can happen.
The would-be student's mind is filled with thoughts such as, "Because I have met him today, this must be destiny. There must be a karmic connection as I have never met a lama before in my life.
(07:35):
I must immediately ask to take refuge vows and see if I can get an empowerment from him and become his student." Well, you know, we've all seen teenagers when they first properly encounter a not-unattractive potential partner,
and they then decide that they are in love. Real love that's going to last their whole life. No, it's not just puppy love. It's burning an eternal flame, which as teenage love songs go, is rather a fine one.
(08:05):
So, while 12 years might be excessive, the warning still stands.
Now, I don't particularly want to mock Americans, although perhaps I should since they just voted in President-to-be Trump again. Nor do I particularly want to mock Californians, but it does appear that the culture in some parts of the world such as those
(08:28):
sets people up to be so desperate for a guru that they rush in without the slightest serious checking. There was a fascinating film made a few years ago, which I think you can see on YouTube or Vimeo or somewhere like that,
under the name of Kumare.
The central character and filmmaker Vikram Gandhi, impersonated an entirely imagined spiritual teacher, invented his teachings and was able very quickly to collect a group of devoted followers.
(09:01):
It's a fascinating watch, in part hilarious, but at the same time, tragic and cringeworthy, as the people we see falling for him are actually real people with a longing for something spiritual in their lives. Perhaps their real fault is simply to be so dewy-eyed that they don't check properly.
(09:25):
This brings us to the question
of how do we do such checks?
Do we look for miracles?
Do we just like going to a teaching that makes us feel special?
Fortunately, this problem isn't at all new, and the tradition has got some clear answers.
I will refer to Jamgon Kongtrul’s Treasury of Knowledge, Book 5, on the subject of Buddhist ethics. The Treasury of Knowledge is an encyclopaedic work distilling many centuries of tradition.
(10:00):
A regular teacher, we are told, is ethical and learned, spiritually accomplished, full of compassion and love, fearless, patient, dauntless and eloquent. Space is given over there to the qualifications of a monastic preceptor before moving on to a spiritual guide to the bodhisattva path.
(10:21):
This person should be self controlled, tranquil, eminent, diligent, displaying a wealth of transmissions, and has realised the nature of the nature of all phenomena,
articulate, and embodies loving kindness, showing no weakness or discouragement.
An extremely fine person indeed, if I may say so.
Turning to the Tantric master, although much more is also said, he or she is described as steadfast, self controlled, intelligent, patient, honest, well versed in the activities related to mantra and Tantra. He or she is compassionate, learned,
(10:59):
expert in the appropriate fields of knowledge, proficient in the drawing of mandalas, and skilled in the ways of explaining secret mantra.
These are tiny extracts from a much longer description.
There is room in these descriptions for a variety of personalities and a variety of relationships, but there is not a lot of room for controlling or abusive behaviour.
(11:24):
To give you some flavour, let me just describe the relationships very briefly that a few people I have known have had with their lamas. Names have been changed, but not much else.
Tashi is a monk. He's from a Tibetan family raised in India and was sent to a monastery with which his family is associated when he was a child.
(11:49):
The monastery is the main centre for his school, so he was used to the lama - this is the kind of lama who is known as the lineage holder of that school - sitting on a high throne in front of the main Buddha statue in the Great Hall.
On occasion, this lama would go on tour and every now and again would give a series of teachings and empowerments in the monastery, to which people would travel from far and wide.
(12:18):
Tashi had in fact never spoken to this lama on a one to one basis. But the hierarchical structure made it quite clear that for this community, he is the lama.
The empowerments and transmissions flow down from him as the chief authorised recipient of these transmissions from previous lineage heads. The educational arm of the monastery also of course contained teachers bearing the title of lama
(12:46):
who taught grammar, ritual, music, philosophy, lama dance, and so on and so forth.
At this stage, his relationship with that lama, while perfectly clear and perfectly satisfactory, was remote and, you might say, impersonal.
As a young man, he was approved to undertake a three-year retreat, and here he naturally developed a much closer relationship with the retreat master, who actually gave him many more empowerments and detailed instructions for his practise.
(13:20):
This is all very traditional and very straight forward.
Our second case, Judith, on the other hand, has a very different story. She is English, and by chance or by karma, however you like to think of it, she found herself living near Lama Lozang in the English Home Counties.
Lama Lozang had escaped from Tibet at the time of the main diaspora following the invasion of Tibet.
(13:47):
He had already completed his religious training and was involved with helping educate and train the boys and occasionally girls who had come with them, who were expected to go through a very similar training.
After a few years, Lozang met an English missionary, Penny, who was doing social work in the area. And what do you know? Cupid's arrow flew both ways across the cultural divide.
(14:15):
Very correctly, Lama Lozang, a monk at the time, went through the somewhat nerve-wracking steps to officially give up his monk's vows, to return his robes, and he moved to England with Penny.
He found work but gradually accumulated a few personal students and gave regular Dharma teachings in the local village hall.
(14:38):
Judith attended those teachings regularly, and gradually learnt about Buddhism in general,
about what we know as the "calm abiding" style of meditation.
She took up the practises of Tara, on which she now spends an hour or so every morning.
She was very fortunate as she had been able to meet and discuss things with Lama Lozang many, many times. Back in old Tibet, his status would have made this quite impossible as his status was really rather high.
(15:11):
But he was such a quiet and unassuming man that it would take you a long time to realise how important he had once been.
The relationship between Lozang and Judith was very simple. He was a teacher. She was a student. There was a lot of respect, but no drama.
It wouldn't be correct in a number of details, but in many ways, Lozang's personality
(15:33):
might be likened to the best kind of Anglican vicar, rather more powerful, though perhaps, and don't take that description too literally.
Thirdly, Lama Nyima is an American and lives now in retirement in the southern States of America.
He had been drawn to the Dharma at a young age and became a monk in the Gelugpa tradition.
(15:58):
All was well, the ship was sailing on a steady course, until he met Pema Kunzang. Now Pema Kunzang was not a monk and was not associated with the Gelugpa school, but he was a ngagpa and rather well known as such. Even famous, you might say.
At that time he was travelling with his wife and two assistants,
(16:20):
teaching at a number of centres in the states. Ngagpas, I'll remind you, were the subject of discussion back in episode 4.
This was not so much a case of Cupid's arrow being fired across the cultural divide, but more of a flaming vajra a dorje. The connection was there. Nyima changed his plans, and his life, and was both lucky enough and determined enough
(16:46):
to become part of Pema Kunzang's entourage for several years, receiving masses of detailed instruction and transmissions.
Pema Kunzang was strict, sometimes even fierce, and expected Nyima absolutely to actually do what he had been taught to do. To this day Nyima is a highly devoted practitioner and an authorised teacher in his own right.
(17:14):
Next we have Marie from Paris, where she worked as a buyer of ladies fashions for a large chain store.
She came into contact with the Kaju teachings at a fairly early stage in their transmission to the West. She joined the circle of students around Llama Karpo and travelled to Brussels on many, many weekends over the years to take teachings from him.
(17:39):
I never did find out for certain whether secretly, and I mean this in the ordinary western sense of secret, whether secretly she was at any stage a consort of Lama Karpo’s.
I rather suspect so, but I don't actually know.
As my last example, may I introduce you to Peter, whose lama, Paljor, again a ngagpa, is humble and radiant with kindness. He can be firm and even fierce with a small number of students if they do need to be taken down a peg. But this is very much the exception.
(18:16):
Generally speaking, he is open, generous, accessible, and actually appears to truly like his students.
This is of course very nice for them, but such friendliness is not in fact necessary. Having taken quite a few heavy duty teachings from Paljor, Peter only sees him maybe once a year, or perhaps not even that. But thanks to Paljor's genuine friendliness, they are in regular contact.
(18:49):
So I hope these little cameos are enough to suggest something of the range of relationships that it's possible for students like us to have with the lama. It varies just as people's personalities and circumstances vary.
That is to say, it varies a lot.
(19:14):
Today's little episode would not be balanced, however, if I were to ignore another thread in this fabric, the thread associated with what is sometimes called crazy wisdom.
The popularity of that phrase is a recent and mostly Western phenomenon, although there are, it is said, one or two actual places in Tibetan literature where “yeshe cholwa” is referred to.
(19:41):
This is usually proposed as the original term translated as crazy wisdom, although there are other sources who propose that it's derived from “drubnyon”.
There are those who believe that a real tantric guru has to be beyond dualism and has to have the inner freedom to ignore convention and behave outrageously, often in ways that those outside the circle might consider abusive.
(20:10):
Heavy reliance is often put on a number of fascinating old fairy tales, such as those of Naropa, whose teacher, Tilopa is said to have subjected him to a dozen trials. This culminated in slapping him in the face with a sandal, causing him finally to break through to enlightenment.
The sandal slapping incident was in fact relatively mild compared to, for example, Tilopa ordering Naropa to jump off the roof of the building, amongst other tests.
(20:43):
Cute story, but if you want to try that now, you have to know that you will in fact die when you jump off the church steeple, regardless of how great and crazy your teacher is.
Another story, often woven into this new mythology, is that of Milarepa, who had to build a tower for his teacher, Marpa, tear it down, build it up again... I forget how many times. Perhaps it was three.
(21:08):
Well, perhaps that was suitably humiliating, so that when he then left to practise alone, he made great progress.
The followers of crazy wisdom will have you believe that if your lama does not at least insult you, then he is not fulfilling his role properly, is not a proper lama and you are not a proper Vajrayana student.
(21:33):
The upshot of this is that some students actually want to be mistreated by their lama.
I may have mentioned the young man - I'll call him Simon - who was cooking for a certain lama during a short retreat I attended in Schleswig Holstein.
The place was called Storchenhof, which could be translated as Stork Farm, and I remember that well because there really was a large pole in the middle of the farmyard with a nesting basket at the top in which a stork was actually raising young.
(22:03):
A lovely sight that was! Anyway for some reason this cook got on the nerves of the lama concerned, who got angry with him and sent him away, saying he did not want to have him cook for him again and preferably didn't want to see him any longer at the retreat.
Simon was delighted. Finally, his lama was behaving objectionably towards him, which meant he was a real student at last!
(22:30):
My own view of these things, which I think frankly is pretty obvious and actually unradical if that's a word, is that if somebody is happy to wear rags, eat leftovers and sleep in derelict buildings,
calling it crazy wisdom, then I might be prepared to say, “Well, maybe it could be true.”
(22:51):
I might even be able to maintain that attitude if this person throws a lot of smoking and heavy drinking into the picture.
It might not attract me, but who am I to judge?
But when another person wants to be treated like royalty, be served the finest dishes, select wines and copious white spirits in sparkling cut glasses, be surrounded by armed bodyguards and sleep with many of the female students, then I think “crazy” applies to the students who support that as much as it does to the so-called lama.
(23:26):
That, of course, is just my opinion, and I am proud to have been called a church lady type of Buddhist because I don't buy into that sort of story. My response is to say, “Let's hear it for the church ladies!”
So, I felt I had to dip into that rather dark puddle for the sake of honesty. Such people are there, and do seem to be convinced that theirs is the only true way. We are free not to follow them.
(23:56):
My overall point, I suppose, is that it pays not to have too strong a preconception about what your lama is like, or what sort of relationship you're going to have. Lamas are human beings. I think it's probably safe to say that every one of them has some kind of fault or other.
The fact that they have faults doesn't mean to say we should ignore them, or accept the behaviour of some who simply are badly behaved.
(24:27):
The need to check out somebody who might become your lama is real. You will find some who are not worthy of the job, but you will find some who are.
So finally, do remember when you do find your lama, that person
is a channel to the Buddha. The knack we have to develop is, without closing our eyes to faults that may actually be there, to treat that person as effectively the Buddha, and to give them that respect.
(25:09):
So finally, remember both the fool and the lama can be found almost anywhere.
Take care. Good luck and goodbye!
Hello, dear people, anybody who's kind enough to listen to this Double Dorje podcast. You are very welcome. I'm Alex Wilding. And today I want to share a few thoughts about just what a guru is actually for.
Before we begin properly, may I remind you please if you can, to press whatever button it is, you've got that you can use to lend a bit of support. The like button, the subscribe button, whatever.
(00:38):
In particular, if you like this podcast, it would be great if you would share with your friends and to get these little messages done quickly. I'll also remind you that there is nearly always a bit of extra material, such as words you might want to look up, or maybe a picture or two.
This material might appear on your usual platform, but often doesn't, depending on the complexities and confusifications of podcast distribution. If you can't find it where you are, take a look at Podbean where this podcast
(01:10):
is first hosted.
Now back in episode 5, which really does seem quite a while ago now, I spoke a bit about the function of the lama in a general sense, how the lama functions in meditation practise, for example.
In that episode I also mentioned how Chime Rinpoche, who was my first teacher, said that for all that, it is a denigrated term,
(01:38):
he felt that lamaism was not necessarily such a bad name for Tibetan Buddhism, in the light of how central the function of the lama is in Vajrayana. But what is it like, relating quite concretely in real life to an actual person who is your lama?
You can pick up all sorts of tips about Buddhism, including its Vajrayana version, from places like YouTube, from books and from podcasts. Yes, you might even learn a little bit here!
(02:08):
Some of this may be helpful. This is not necessarily a bad way to approach becoming a Buddhist,
although formal refuge will undoubtedly give your sense of being on the path, a big boost.
All of these sources, which I'm tempted to call second hand sources, though that might suggest that I judge them a bit more negatively than I really do. These sources will nevertheless tell you that for the Vajrayana path
(02:38):
a relationship with a qualified vajra master or guru
is quite essential.
It's the heart of the path.
And when we have met this person, what are we to expect?
The lama will not necessarily be your friend. This can happen, but it's far from certain. To be honest, it's rather unlikely.
(03:05):
On the one hand this is because, especially when we're talking about a high lama, he or she may be a fairly remote figure, someone we see upon a throne as we file past to have our head bonked during an empowerment, or perhaps sitting at the front of the hall in a teaching session.
But even if there is some time given over to question and answer in those cases, that sort of lama will be likely to have many, many students and a life that only intersects with the lives of the students on these special occasions.
(03:42):
The lama is not at all likely to be your therapist.
If you have serious mental challenges, please get help.
If, for example, you have bipolar disorder, the lithium prescribed by your psychiatrist is likely to do you more good than reciting Vajrasattva mantras. I have seen this happen. Looking back, it can be funny.
(04:08):
But at the time, it can be frightening.
The lama is also not there to solve your personal problems.
If you're having difficulty with your life partner, the lama might or might not be able to give you some tips, just as a friend might, but bear in mind, especially when we're talking about a traditional lama, especially those brought up in the old Tibetan environment,
(04:34):
have lived lives that were at the same time harsh and protected.
Lives largely isolated from normal human relationships.
This is why, sadly, they are themselves only too often emotionally and personally challenged. This is not the kind of person to tell you how to solve the problems you have with your lover or your work colleagues.
(05:01):
Better to write to the problem pages of your favourite newspaper.
And the lama is in fact not
really there to
smash your ego or smash the dualistic mind.
It is a commonplace in Buddhism that the sign of progress in the Dharma is that our self clinging or we might call it ego clinging becomes less.
(05:26):
That's great, but this is a quiet process unfolding in the depths of our heart. It doesn't mean that we have to deny who we are or to develop an infantile dependency on the words of the lama.
He is not there to be a substitute for a big daddy.
So what is he or she for?
(05:49):
To instruct you in the Dharma to guide your practise, and if the lama is a tantric lama or guru, he or she is there to channel the blessings of the Buddha in a powerfully concrete way.
And in the formal sense to give you empowerment.
(06:14):
Ever and again we are warned of the risks, and both the lama and the disciple are encouraged to examine each other thoroughly over a long period of time - 12 years is often quoted - before entering into that sort of relationship.
This is a fine warning indeed, but in practise it's entirely unrealistic.
(06:36):
It's advice that stems from another society and another era.
All the same, examining, checking, listening to what other people have to say, seeing how the lama actually behaves:
These indeed should be done, and some time should always be given to this process.
Because we westerners are sometimes a bit naive in this department, there is a tendency to meet a lama, perhaps one with a little bit of a reputation, and some students who have arranged for his or her presence.
(07:09):
Perhaps the same lama has a bit of charisma, or even a lot of charisma.
Now looking from the outside, as we all know, it's probably quite easy to guess what can happen.
The would-be student's mind is filled with thoughts such as, "Because I have met him today, this must be destiny. There must be a karmic connection as I have never met a lama before in my life.
(07:35):
I must immediately ask to take refuge vows and see if I can get an empowerment from him and become his student." Well, you know, we've all seen teenagers when they first properly encounter a not-unattractive potential partner,
and they then decide that they are in love. Real love that's going to last their whole life. No, it's not just puppy love. It's burning an eternal flame, which as teenage love songs go, is rather a fine one.
(08:05):
So, while 12 years might be excessive, the warning still stands.
Now, I don't particularly want to mock Americans, although perhaps I should since they just voted in President-to-be Trump again. Nor do I particularly want to mock Californians, but it does appear that the culture in some parts of the world such as those
(08:28):
sets people up to be so desperate for a guru that they rush in without the slightest serious checking. There was a fascinating film made a few years ago, which I think you can see on YouTube or Vimeo or somewhere like that,
under the name of Kumare.
The central character and filmmaker Vikram Gandhi, impersonated an entirely imagined spiritual teacher, invented his teachings and was able very quickly to collect a group of devoted followers.
(09:01):
It's a fascinating watch, in part hilarious, but at the same time, tragic and cringeworthy, as the people we see falling for him are actually real people with a longing for something spiritual in their lives. Perhaps their real fault is simply to be so dewy-eyed that they don't check properly.
(09:25):
This brings us to the question
of how do we do such checks?
Do we look for miracles?
Do we just like going to a teaching that makes us feel special?
Fortunately, this problem isn't at all new, and the tradition has got some clear answers.
I will refer to Jamgon Kongtrul’s Treasury of Knowledge, Book 5, on the subject of Buddhist ethics. The Treasury of Knowledge is an encyclopaedic work distilling many centuries of tradition.
(10:00):
A regular teacher, we are told, is ethical and learned, spiritually accomplished, full of compassion and love, fearless, patient, dauntless and eloquent. Space is given over there to the qualifications of a monastic preceptor before moving on to a spiritual guide to the bodhisattva path.
(10:21):
This person should be self controlled, tranquil, eminent, diligent, displaying a wealth of transmissions, and has realised the nature of the nature of all phenomena,
articulate, and embodies loving kindness, showing no weakness or discouragement.
An extremely fine person indeed, if I may say so.
Turning to the Tantric master, although much more is also said, he or she is described as steadfast, self controlled, intelligent, patient, honest, well versed in the activities related to mantra and Tantra. He or she is compassionate, learned,
(10:59):
expert in the appropriate fields of knowledge, proficient in the drawing of mandalas, and skilled in the ways of explaining secret mantra.
These are tiny extracts from a much longer description.
There is room in these descriptions for a variety of personalities and a variety of relationships, but there is not a lot of room for controlling or abusive behaviour.
(11:24):
To give you some flavour, let me just describe the relationships very briefly that a few people I have known have had with their lamas. Names have been changed, but not much else.
Tashi is a monk. He's from a Tibetan family raised in India and was sent to a monastery with which his family is associated when he was a child.
(11:49):
The monastery is the main centre for his school, so he was used to the lama - this is the kind of lama who is known as the lineage holder of that school - sitting on a high throne in front of the main Buddha statue in the Great Hall.
On occasion, this lama would go on tour and every now and again would give a series of teachings and empowerments in the monastery, to which people would travel from far and wide.
(12:18):
Tashi had in fact never spoken to this lama on a one to one basis. But the hierarchical structure made it quite clear that for this community, he is the lama.
The empowerments and transmissions flow down from him as the chief authorised recipient of these transmissions from previous lineage heads. The educational arm of the monastery also of course contained teachers bearing the title of lama
(12:46):
who taught grammar, ritual, music, philosophy, lama dance, and so on and so forth.
At this stage, his relationship with that lama, while perfectly clear and perfectly satisfactory, was remote and, you might say, impersonal.
As a young man, he was approved to undertake a three-year retreat, and here he naturally developed a much closer relationship with the retreat master, who actually gave him many more empowerments and detailed instructions for his practise.
(13:20):
This is all very traditional and very straight forward.
Our second case, Judith, on the other hand, has a very different story. She is English, and by chance or by karma, however you like to think of it, she found herself living near Lama Lozang in the English Home Counties.
Lama Lozang had escaped from Tibet at the time of the main diaspora following the invasion of Tibet.
(13:47):
He had already completed his religious training and was involved with helping educate and train the boys and occasionally girls who had come with them, who were expected to go through a very similar training.
After a few years, Lozang met an English missionary, Penny, who was doing social work in the area. And what do you know? Cupid's arrow flew both ways across the cultural divide.
(14:15):
Very correctly, Lama Lozang, a monk at the time, went through the somewhat nerve-wracking steps to officially give up his monk's vows, to return his robes, and he moved to England with Penny.
He found work but gradually accumulated a few personal students and gave regular Dharma teachings in the local village hall.
(14:38):
Judith attended those teachings regularly, and gradually learnt about Buddhism in general,
about what we know as the "calm abiding" style of meditation.
She took up the practises of Tara, on which she now spends an hour or so every morning.
She was very fortunate as she had been able to meet and discuss things with Lama Lozang many, many times. Back in old Tibet, his status would have made this quite impossible as his status was really rather high.
(15:11):
But he was such a quiet and unassuming man that it would take you a long time to realise how important he had once been.
The relationship between Lozang and Judith was very simple. He was a teacher. She was a student. There was a lot of respect, but no drama.
It wouldn't be correct in a number of details, but in many ways, Lozang's personality
(15:33):
might be likened to the best kind of Anglican vicar, rather more powerful, though perhaps, and don't take that description too literally.
Thirdly, Lama Nyima is an American and lives now in retirement in the southern States of America.
He had been drawn to the Dharma at a young age and became a monk in the Gelugpa tradition.
(15:58):
All was well, the ship was sailing on a steady course, until he met Pema Kunzang. Now Pema Kunzang was not a monk and was not associated with the Gelugpa school, but he was a ngagpa and rather well known as such. Even famous, you might say.
At that time he was travelling with his wife and two assistants,
(16:20):
teaching at a number of centres in the states. Ngagpas, I'll remind you, were the subject of discussion back in episode 4.
This was not so much a case of Cupid's arrow being fired across the cultural divide, but more of a flaming vajra a dorje. The connection was there. Nyima changed his plans, and his life, and was both lucky enough and determined enough
(16:46):
to become part of Pema Kunzang's entourage for several years, receiving masses of detailed instruction and transmissions.
Pema Kunzang was strict, sometimes even fierce, and expected Nyima absolutely to actually do what he had been taught to do. To this day Nyima is a highly devoted practitioner and an authorised teacher in his own right.
(17:14):
Next we have Marie from Paris, where she worked as a buyer of ladies fashions for a large chain store.
She came into contact with the Kaju teachings at a fairly early stage in their transmission to the West. She joined the circle of students around Llama Karpo and travelled to Brussels on many, many weekends over the years to take teachings from him.
(17:39):
I never did find out for certain whether secretly, and I mean this in the ordinary western sense of secret, whether secretly she was at any stage a consort of Lama Karpo’s.
I rather suspect so, but I don't actually know.
As my last example, may I introduce you to Peter, whose lama, Paljor, again a ngagpa, is humble and radiant with kindness. He can be firm and even fierce with a small number of students if they do need to be taken down a peg. But this is very much the exception.
(18:16):
Generally speaking, he is open, generous, accessible, and actually appears to truly like his students.
This is of course very nice for them, but such friendliness is not in fact necessary. Having taken quite a few heavy duty teachings from Paljor, Peter only sees him maybe once a year, or perhaps not even that. But thanks to Paljor's genuine friendliness, they are in regular contact.
(18:49):
So I hope these little cameos are enough to suggest something of the range of relationships that it's possible for students like us to have with the lama. It varies just as people's personalities and circumstances vary.
That is to say, it varies a lot.
(19:14):
Today's little episode would not be balanced, however, if I were to ignore another thread in this fabric, the thread associated with what is sometimes called crazy wisdom.
The popularity of that phrase is a recent and mostly Western phenomenon, although there are, it is said, one or two actual places in Tibetan literature where “yeshe cholwa” is referred to.
(19:41):
This is usually proposed as the original term translated as crazy wisdom, although there are other sources who propose that it's derived from “drubnyon”.
There are those who believe that a real tantric guru has to be beyond dualism and has to have the inner freedom to ignore convention and behave outrageously, often in ways that those outside the circle might consider abusive.
(20:10):
Heavy reliance is often put on a number of fascinating old fairy tales, such as those of Naropa, whose teacher, Tilopa is said to have subjected him to a dozen trials. This culminated in slapping him in the face with a sandal, causing him finally to break through to enlightenment.
The sandal slapping incident was in fact relatively mild compared to, for example, Tilopa ordering Naropa to jump off the roof of the building, amongst other tests.
(20:43):
Cute story, but if you want to try that now, you have to know that you will in fact die when you jump off the church steeple, regardless of how great and crazy your teacher is.
Another story, often woven into this new mythology, is that of Milarepa, who had to build a tower for his teacher, Marpa, tear it down, build it up again... I forget how many times. Perhaps it was three.
(21:08):
Well, perhaps that was suitably humiliating, so that when he then left to practise alone, he made great progress.
The followers of crazy wisdom will have you believe that if your lama does not at least insult you, then he is not fulfilling his role properly, is not a proper lama and you are not a proper Vajrayana student.
(21:33):
The upshot of this is that some students actually want to be mistreated by their lama.
I may have mentioned the young man - I'll call him Simon - who was cooking for a certain lama during a short retreat I attended in Schleswig Holstein.
The place was called Storchenhof, which could be translated as Stork Farm, and I remember that well because there really was a large pole in the middle of the farmyard with a nesting basket at the top in which a stork was actually raising young.
(22:03):
A lovely sight that was! Anyway for some reason this cook got on the nerves of the lama concerned, who got angry with him and sent him away, saying he did not want to have him cook for him again and preferably didn't want to see him any longer at the retreat.
Simon was delighted. Finally, his lama was behaving objectionably towards him, which meant he was a real student at last!
(22:30):
My own view of these things, which I think frankly is pretty obvious and actually unradical if that's a word, is that if somebody is happy to wear rags, eat leftovers and sleep in derelict buildings,
calling it crazy wisdom, then I might be prepared to say, “Well, maybe it could be true.”
(22:51):
I might even be able to maintain that attitude if this person throws a lot of smoking and heavy drinking into the picture.
It might not attract me, but who am I to judge?
But when another person wants to be treated like royalty, be served the finest dishes, select wines and copious white spirits in sparkling cut glasses, be surrounded by armed bodyguards and sleep with many of the female students, then I think “crazy” applies to the students who support that as much as it does to the so-called lama.
(23:26):
That, of course, is just my opinion, and I am proud to have been called a church lady type of Buddhist because I don't buy into that sort of story. My response is to say, “Let's hear it for the church ladies!”
So, I felt I had to dip into that rather dark puddle for the sake of honesty. Such people are there, and do seem to be convinced that theirs is the only true way. We are free not to follow them.
(23:56):
My overall point, I suppose, is that it pays not to have too strong a preconception about what your lama is like, or what sort of relationship you're going to have. Lamas are human beings. I think it's probably safe to say that every one of them has some kind of fault or other.
The fact that they have faults doesn't mean to say we should ignore them, or accept the behaviour of some who simply are badly behaved.
(24:27):
The need to check out somebody who might become your lama is real. You will find some who are not worthy of the job, but you will find some who are.
So finally, do remember when you do find your lama, that person
is a channel to the Buddha. The knack we have to develop is, without closing our eyes to faults that may actually be there, to treat that person as effectively the Buddha, and to give them that respect.
(25:09):
So finally, remember both the fool and the lama can be found almost anywhere.
Take care. Good luck and goodbye!
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.