Confidence. Courage. Career Moves.

Episode Transcript
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Angela Harris (00:05):
Welcome to the F.L.O.W podcast, fearlessly
leading our way. This podcast isa space dedicated to
spotlighting the unfilteredvoices of black women in their
unique leadership journeys. I amyour host, Angela V. Harris, I'm

(00:26):
an award winning coach, speaker,author and champion from black
women. Make sure you like andsubscribe to this podcast to
stay connected to ourconversation, let's get ready to
flow.

(00:53):
Hey, fearless leaders, welcomeback to another episode of the
flow podcast. I'm your host,Angela V Harris, and today's
conversation is one you do notwant to miss, whether you're
navigating your leadershipjourney, contemplating a career
shift, or wondering how to trulyamplify your value in the
workplace, this episode ispacked with insight, strategy

(01:16):
and real talk. My guest today isthe powerhouse, Dr Karen Hills
Pruden, a seasoned HR executive,entrepreneur, author and
advocate for women inleadership. As you can see, she
wears many hats. Her story isone of resilience, bold decision

(01:36):
making and the power ofinvesting in yourself. She takes
us behind the scenes of her riseto the C suite, shares how she
negotiated mentorship when thecost seemed out of reach, and
breaks down the mindset shiftsneeded to move from management
to leadership. We also tacklesome hard truths. Why so many

(01:58):
professionals hesitate to bet onthemselves, how women can
strategically positionthemselves for leadership roles,
and the importance of leveragingvisibility and influence to
advance your career. And ifyou've ever struggled with self
advocacy in the workplace, DrKaren has a game changing
framework for amplifying yourvalue that you need to hear.

(02:22):
Stay tuned, because Dr Karen isalso sharing an exclusive free
resource with our listeners, 20things you can negotiate outside
of salary to increase your totalcompensation. You don't want to
miss this. All right, let's getinto it. Here's my conversation
with Dr Karen hills, prudent,welcome to the show. Dr Karen,

(02:46):
hi, thank you for having me.Well, I'm so happy to have you
here today. And Doctor Karen, Iknow you wear many hats. You're
an HR executive, anentrepreneur, an author, a
speaker, just to name a few.Tell us about your story and how
it shaped the leader that youare today.

Dr. Karen Hills Pruden (03:05):
Oh, wow. So the Cliff Notes version, and
then I'll backtrack. The cliffnotes version is that I was
blessed to start out on thefront line and make my way up to
the C suite, and I've been insenior leadership for a little
over 15 years now. But the inbetween, the Juicy, juicy, as
one of my coaches would say, isjust that I was a person who had

(03:31):
worked her way up to middlemanagement and thought I could
do better in leadership afterhaving a succession of two very
interesting bosses will just saythat they were their tenure was
less than a year, and I waslike, I think I could do
leadership. And so deciding thatI wanted to move into

(03:54):
leadership, not seeing anyfemale leaders around me
anywhere, and I had a bignetwork, and so everybody was
kind of lingering where I was,which was middle management.
This was about 16 years ago, soLinkedIn was about five years
old, Dan about 16 years ago. Andso we were all still trying to
figure it out based on the othersocial media. And so I took a

(04:16):
copy of my resume, shot it outto two people that I researched
on LinkedIn two women who looklike me, African American women
who were in senior leadershiproles, who had been in those
roles for at least a decade.Because I said, If God blessed
me to make it to leadership, Iwant sustainability. So shout

(04:37):
off a copy of my resume alongwith a little direct message
saying, Hey, I'm looking for amentor. I don't have any
mentors. I would love if you bemy mentor. And then my number
one choice got back to me. Shemade me wait for about two
weeks, and she said, Sure, I'llbe your mentor for $350 an hour.

(04:59):
Mm. Wow, wow. Yeah, back then,and even now, if I lost $350
right now, your girl will belooking for it. But back then,
middle manager Karen, I wasn'trolling like that. But what do
you do when someone has ablueprint to get to where you
want to go, and they're willingto show you how to get there.

(05:20):
And so I buckled down andnegotiated for one hour a month,
not eight hours, one hour one$350 a month, and signed a one
year contract with her. And forthose who are listening, no, she
didn't cut me off at 60 minutes.But after working with her for a

(05:43):
little over one hour a month forone year, four months later, I
was invited to apply for asenior leadership position, and
I've been in senior leadershipsince then. And so what I
learned from that experience,one is that you need to invest
in yourself absolutely. Youknow, absolutely. And I am glad
that I wasn't one that gotdespondent when she said $350 an

(06:08):
hour. And I was glad that I wasone that was creative and said,
Well, hey, how much for onehour? And I didn't, I didn't let
her answer for me. I asked thequestion, as opposed to assuming
she would say no, because shehelped me identify my unique
selling proposition, which a lotof people call it your USP,

(06:28):
which is what makes me differentfor women with like education
and like roles such as myself,and that is that I love data
analytics, and I can create aquantifiable number from non
sales departments that can beverified and repeated over and
over again, so that you canreport out how your productivity

(06:49):
ties into your organizationalproductivity. And so that was my
unique gift. I'm a data girl,and I can attribute and create
data points. And so that is thekind of the cliff notes version
of my rise to leadership and myspecialties have helped me
sustain myself in leadership,and I guess that whole

(07:11):
experience have caused me tocreate a community of women
leaders and mentors calledSister leaders for others, so
that they don't have to go tothat same pain point that I went
through, and so that's a littlebit about me. That's a whole
lot, but a little bit

like you said, that's like, kind of like the
Juicy, juicy cliff notes. But Iwant to just kind of go back to
a couple of things that yousaid. First of all, I'm a huge
LinkedIn lover, like, that's myfavorite social media platform.
I'm extremely active onLinkedIn, and I love your
approach, because that's what Itell my mentees and also my
coaching clients about thedirect outreach to people and
how you personalize your inviteand you ask for what you wanted.

(07:50):
So I just love that that youwere so you would take an
initiative back then to do that,because that's something that I
still preach today, andpersonally, I don't even
typically respond to people thatdon't personalize the the
initial outreach message to me,yeah, I'm very particular. I'm
very serious about mynetworking. I don't want to have
connections just for the sake ofsaying I have, you know, 510,

(08:10):
1000 connections. I really enjoyinteracting with the people, and
you know this no learning andknowing about them and being
able to provide value to them.And I also like the fact that, I
guess, like, your mentor was,you know, serious about valuing
their time, and wanted to makesure that you were serious
about, you know, I guess, like,just serious about the
engagement by saying that, okay,it's $350 to work with me.

Yeah, absolutely. And I paid that
before the call each monthbefore the call. She was paid in
full before we got on the call.And so I I had no problem with
that, because each month, sheadded value to my life and my
professional career, just on theins and outs. No one tell you
how to make that conversion frommanagement to leadership. You

(08:57):
know, if you are going along inyour career, you may even think
that they are synonyms for oneanother, and they are not, you
know, as a manager, you areconcerned about day to day
things, and as a leader, wouldshe help me to pivot my way of
thinking? I am thinking aboutsustainability and
competitiveness three to fiveyears down the road, yeah,

yeah, yeah, yeah. And I just love the importance
of, you know, investing inyourself, when I look back at
the like, the last 10 years ofmy life and my career, like I
realized that I'm not the sameperson that I am, and it's
because, like you, I've beenintentional about making that
investment in my personal andprofessional development. And I
firmly believe that if we don'tsee our own value, how can we

(09:39):
expect employers to see ourvalue. So I talk about, you
know, betting on yourself. Sosometimes you have to bet on
yourself. So other people will,you know, bet on you

absolutely. And look, I've paid six figures
in professional coaching sincethen. That was 16 years ago. Um,
I've invested a lot of money,but it helps you get the
knowledge. Knowledge you don'thave to put in the same time
that your coaches put in. Youget that knowledge right up
front, and so it kind of givesyou the accelerated path to your
goals in life when you hiresomeone who has walked that walk

(10:12):
before you.

Yeah, and I know this from I guess, experience
within my own coaching practice,I've seen so many women who are
unhappy at work. They knowthey're underpaid and they they
know that they're beingoverlooked for promotions, but
they're still hesitant to makethat investment for themselves.
So I guess, like, what would yousay to someone in that scenario
to help help them get thecourage to make that investment?

Well, I would say, you know, are you
sick and tired of being sick andtired? You know they are, but
they're still not making themovement. So, yeah, but I would
say that they are not in enoughpain yet, you know, because you
will. I mean, again, I when Iwent through two very bad
bosses, it was two years. Eachone of them had a very short

(11:00):
tenure, but the the mental andemotional impact of those two
bosses was well after theirshort tenure with the
organization, and for me to sayto myself, look, I know I can do
leadership with integrity, withhonesty, I can still hold people
accountable. I know my stuff. Ijust need to know what is the if

(11:23):
is it politics that's involvedwith getting hired in
leadership? Why do I not seewomen in senior leadership? And
really, it is what you don'tknow. And so in order to get the
information that you don't know,it's not always going to be
free. It's not going to alwaysbe free. Usually free gives you
the surface information, but ifyou want the meat and potatoes,

(11:45):
you usually gotta make some typeof investment, whether it's it's
time or whether it's money. Andfor me, I value because I had
also paid for my education. Mymom, I'm a daughter of a school
teacher, so my mom, I went allthe way up, because my mom was
like, Go out, get yourdoctorate, go all the way up.
And so, because I valueinvesting in myself, I didn't

(12:06):
really have a problem withinvesting in myself. Now, at
that time in my career, $350 anextra $350 was a lot. And
because, you know, I had smallchildren at that point in my
life, but I also the thought ofthis person is going to pour
into me, and I will have theadvantage, as opposed to someone
else who did not invest inthemselves, I would have the

(12:29):
knowledge I need to figure outhow to get at least some of this
knowledge, and come to find outsome of the knowledge that I
got. So for those people who sayyou know that they don't want to
or can't afford to. You can'tafford not to. You don't have
the time each day that you'regoing into a job that you're not

(12:50):
happy about, yeah, that you'regoing into a position where you
know you can offer more, but youdon't even have the authority to
bring the idea to the tablebecause of your title. You can't
afford not to figure out a wayto get the information that you
need, and if it comes with theinvoice, figure out how you
going to make it happen.

I love that you can't afford not to

No, absolutely you can't, absolutely
you can't. I

just want to sit with that for a second. I'm
curious. You know you made that$350 investment, how much of a
return on that have you seenfrom the course of your career
since making that $350investment? Because I feel like
that's the other thing peopledon't see. It's like, oh, you
know, $350 or, you know, $5,000for this coaching program. But

(13:40):
if you get promoted, I feel likethat money, that that
investment, is going to bereturned to you tenfold,

absolutely. So I worked with her for one
year, so 350 times 12, whateverthat is. I'm not a
mathematician, but 350 times 12,and then I was invited for to
apply for the position fourmonths after working with her,
and so let's say another 350 sowhat is the return on the
investment after investing at350 for that period of time? So

(14:12):
that is 12 plus four to 16months. Well, it for me, it was
great because I wasn't one ofthose people who had applied for
a position and never made it tothe next level, and never found
out why. I never even put in thetime to apply for the leadership
position until I was invited towhich happens to be right after
I work with her. So the firstprocess that I went through, and

(14:35):
it was a four month process,because C suite positions aren't
No, you go in for interview onMonday, and they offer you a job
on Wednesday. No, it was a fourmonth process. I went through
panel interviews and meetingstakeholders and different
things like that. Soon as I wentthrough that four month process,
after working with her, I got myfirst senior leadership

(14:57):
position, which also happened tobe my first senior. Six Figure
position. So financially, and Ithink at that time, I think I
was making about 75 and I wentup to 160 so financially, plus
the perks that were associatedwith the position, in terms of
options and different things,but also in terms of not just

(15:18):
the money, but it allowed me toimpact my life and my children's
life immediately, as opposed tolater, while I figure it out,
because our standard of livingincrease, the people that I now
am sitting in a room with, I'mlearning more from them because
they are a high level ofindividual. Also, I was exposed

(15:39):
to my employer paying forcertain certifications because
of the level of my position. Sonow I have more certifications
behind my name. So the payoffwas not just financial. There
was some reputational capitalthat was associated with me
being elevated, because now I amnavigating in rooms on behalf of

(16:00):
my organization with other likeminded people. And so it's
creating my own network, mynetwork outside of my position
with that organization, becauseyou're only as good as the
problem that you solve in yourindustry, where people are aware
of what problem you solve, notwho you work for, but what
problem you solve. And sobecause of that, being in those

(16:21):
rooms now, I am creating myreputation within my industry,
outside of my employer, which Ileverage when I started my own
consulting

business. So it sounds like it just keeps. It
kept paying you forward, in asense,

absolutely. I mean, it keeps and of course,
I've hired a number of differentpeople since then, but I'm, I'm
a lifetime learner. I won't,don't. I will never know
everything in a room. I will beas quiet as possible, and you'll
look over there, and I'll beright in the way, right in the
way. I keep a notebook with meall the time, yup. And I got a

(16:58):
follow up game that's, that'sout of this world. You give me
your card, your number that day,by that evening, before I go to
bed at night. Hey, it was I'mglad to meet you. Let's stay in
contact. You know you, ifrelationships is the new
currency of this decade, it isthe new currency. Cultivating
relationships will get youplaces faster than another

(17:20):
degree, another anothercertification, and so people
need to tap into thatreputational capital of
relationships.

Well, that's a great segue to our next
question, because I heard yousay that your access to some of
the rooms helped you as you wentto form some of your other
businesses. So I know outside ofyour day to day job, you do have
quite a few businesses. So whatinspired you to start prudent,
Global Business Solutions,consulting and the sisters
leaders community? So it's

funny, I am a product of a mother who is
pro education. My mom's aretired school teacher of 36
years and so my mom preached allmy life, you know, go get your
education. Go get your highesteducation. And so hence I went
all the way up to my doctorate,but I'm also the product of my
dad, who was pro entrepreneur.Don't work for anybody on your

(18:17):
own. You can never be fired ifyou work for your own. And so
coming from those two verydifferent backgrounds, I
acquired the best of bothworlds. I have always used my
talents in the marketplace froma very young age. If I had a
talent that people were werewilling to pay for, whether it
was braiding hair or being thecandy lady on the bus or

(18:38):
whatever it was, I've always hadthat entrepreneurial spirit,
because I always saw my dad, whowas pro entrepreneur, and so me
creating prudent global was moreso of after about five years of
me giving my talents away,someone was like, Look, chick,
this is not a hobby. This is abusiness, even though you're

(19:00):
working for someone else,because I am an entrepreneur,
and an entrepreneur, I continueto work in leadership for
someone else. And so they werelike, This is not a hobby. You
can't keep giving this out forfree. You need to formalize
yourself. You need to determineyour pricing structure. And so
because I kept getting thatfeedback, people were like,
well, how much you charge? Andit's like, oh, I won't charge

(19:21):
you anything. And at a certainpoint, the same people who were
asking me how much you charge,and I was saying, I won't charge
you anything, they were saying,No, that's unacceptable. You got
to figure it out. And so that'show I started my consulting
business. Because at the midstof starting my consulting
business, I was into real estateinvesting, because I believe in
multiple streams of income. So Iwas a real estate investor. I

(19:44):
was a styling investor, but I'vehad a real estate license for
several decades, but people werelike, No, you cannot continue to
give this away for free. And soI had to formalize myself.

Yeah, well, I think it's great that the people
that were in your network werepushing this way to. Pushing you
to say, like, Hey, you can'tcontinue to give this away for
free, because often times somany of us, so many people, will
just say they'll try to suckeverything out of you for free.
So it sounds like you definitelyhave the right community around
you. That's, you know, upliftingyou.

Yeah, I was blessed that I had enough
people who looked at thesustainability. I think they
were looking at, no, this is nota one time thing. This is
something that you can leverageover and over and over again,
and you need to structureyourself.

Mm, hmm. And I heard you talk about being an
entrepreneur. And for thelisteners, entrepreneurship is
the practice of acting like anentrepreneur within your current
organization. So Doctor Karen,how have you leveraged your
entrepreneur skills in your dayto day job?

Well, it's funny, because most
entrepreneurs used to be anentrepreneur. Most of them used
to work for somebody else. Andso I'm a leader regardless. So I
am a leader working for someoneelse. I work in higher ed. I'm
assistant vice president ofproject management and finance
and administration. Hence, I'mstill a numbers geek, so it's
still all about numbers inbusiness, but I have the

(21:08):
competencies of a leader, and Ihave had the competencies of a
leader for some time. So whetherI'm working for myself or
someone else, I am all aboutleading people, leading change
using technology and analytics,which are the four major bullets
for any particular leader. So Ichoose to travel both of those
lanes, because there haven'tcome a time where they're

(21:30):
severely collide. I've had acouple of times where they
possibly collide, where peoplehave asked me to do various
things, and because of my dayjob, I wasn't able to do it. But
for the most part, they have.I've been able to coexist being
an entrepreneur and anentrepreneur, and so I haven't
felt the need to just pick alane, which some people feel

(21:51):
forced to do. I've been blessedto have coaches, professional
coaches, who say that you don'thave to pick a lane, but there
will come a time in your lifeand in your career, where you
will make the decision ofwhether or not you want to have
one lane versus two lanes. Butright now, they both coexist.
I'm able to use all of mytalents in both lanes, and so I

(22:12):
continue to do that as well as Iteach a lot of leaders. And so
it works to my advantage tocontinue to be in the
marketplace, actively in themarketplace. Because the people
that I am working coaching andworking with are actively in the
marketplace as well. Well,

that's amazing that you're able to, you know,
get that fulfillment from bothyour day to day job and your
entrepreneurial

activities. Absolutely, absolutely. Some
people are not so blessed.

Yeah, I can relate to that. That was me.
That was me. I want to go backto something you said. I love
the fact that you said that youalways had the competencies of a
leader. And I feel likesometimes we, as women, we
overlook the fact that you don'tneed a title to be a leader. We
are leaders in our everydaylives, just for the simple fact

(23:02):
of we're motivating ourselves toget out of bed in the morning.
And although we may not have thetitle within corporate America,
we're running non profit boards.We're leaders in our churches
and other, you know, civicorganizations that we are
members of.

Absolutely so when I was in middle
management, people used to comein my office, people from the C
suite, the senior leaders, wouldcome in my office and run stuff
past me. That's what they wouldsay, let me run this past you.
So I was the go to person inmiddle management. And so
although I didn't have theleadership title and I had a

(23:37):
management title, but you don'tnecessarily need a title if, if
you're a good at what you do,and people value what it is you
do, and you know how tocommunicate what it is you do,
and you are honest when peopletalk with you, then you can just
become a go to person, a trustedgo to person. And believe me,
you can even leverage that. Youcan stay right where you are,

(24:00):
you can be the best go toperson, stay right where you are
and make as much money aspossible as they'll give you
right where you are. You don'talways have to go up to the
leadership title. I know a lotof people say, I don't want the
headache of leadership, yeah,okay. Well, be the best that you
can be right where you are. Butthe biggest thing is you have to
amplify your value, which is oneof my frameworks, and what does

(24:21):
that mean? That means thatothers need to know the value
that you add to the workspace.They need to know what your your
reputation is in terms of, whatdo people say about you when
you're not in the room? Well,it's generally what problem that
you solve. And so that will bethe problem that they come to
you with, again, being the go toperson, and you gotta know how

(24:41):
to communicate. You got to knowhow to tell people not only what
they want to know, but what theyneed to know. And sometimes what
they need to know is what theywant don't want, sometimes they
don't want to hear that. But ifyou are someone who is trusted
and valued, they will appreciateyou saying what they don't want
to hear. Or because it's thehonest it's honest, it's the

(25:02):
honest conversation, and it mayimpact how they go and present
themselves to someone other theycan pivot and make a change such
as that.

So I heard you talking about the fact that
sometimes women don't know howto amplify their value. That's
one of your frameworks. So whatare some of the other common
challenges women face in thesespaces, and how do you help them
overcome that absolutely so

visibility creates opportunity. It also
allows people to see what it isthat you're an expert in, and it
doesn't always come withadditional money. You know, a
lot of times we as women, wehold multiple roles. We are a
wife, mother, you know, we'realso trying to be a
professional, and sometimes wewant to run home right after

(25:47):
work. Well, sometimes there aredecisions made after work, doing
working lunch, maybe at aworking dinner. It could be at
someone's wedding, who happensto get married at your, all of
your you know, all of the workpeople sometimes congregate
because they have thatcommonality, and then they start
talking work business, a lot ofdecisions that impact our career

(26:10):
made outside of the office, andbecause we as women sometimes
are so multi faceted, we're sofocused on trying to hold it all
together, that we forget aboutDoing a little extra at work to
get that visibility, so that ifan opportunity does present
itself, your name will be in thehat. And so that is one thing,
not taking advantage ofopportunities outside of the

(26:32):
office, because a lot ofdecisions are made outside of
the office. Another barrier thatI call a self imposed barrier,
is that we think it's braggingwhen we talk about our wins. Mm,
hmm, but I guarantee you, mostwomen has worked with a male
counterpart, but you know,everything he did all the way
back to kindergarten, and youdon't, you don't consider him to

(26:55):
be bragging, and so it is notbragging when you are really
merely sharing with others thethings that you have done in the
past, so that they would knowthe skill set that you have that
can help you, help you or themor their business going forward.
And so we need that literallyamplify, in terms of say
verbally, the things that we'vedone. And we need to have a work

(27:18):
profile, not just a resume. Awork profile is all of the
committees you've worked on,what the objectives were, what
the results of those objectives,what are the level of the people
that you've worked with on thosecommittees? You know, how much
money did you generate? How muchmoney did you make, how much
money did you save? Because as aleader, our responsibility is to

(27:39):
make money, save money orachieve organizational goals.
Everything we do fall in thosethree buckets. Either you're
achieving organizational goals,either you're saving the
organization money, or you'remaking the organization money
and a lot of times or time, timecan equate to value. So time is
worth money as well. We don'ttalk about those things. We also

(27:59):
don't talk in terms of metrics.Quantifiable metrics cannot be
disputed. We don't keep track ofthem. We don't use them in our
language. And so we like to usesoft language. We like to use
soft language such as, you know,I'll say reputational language,
such as people like me, or mystaff like me, or my No my staff

(28:24):
retention rate is 82% over thelast five years. Not my staff
likes me, you know, and sofigure out how to speak. And
sometimes that is not somethingyou can learn on your own.
Sometimes you have to talk toeither people in the positions
that are higher than you, orpeople who know what it what is
required to be elevated in themarket. Mm, hmm. And

I love the fact that you spoke about the work
profile, because one of thethings I tell my clients is to
have the brag book. And so whenit comes time for our
performance appraisals, like youdon't have to scramble to go
back. What did I do this year?What projects did I work on?
What type of praise did I get,like, how much impact did I
make? So if you have this bragbook and you update it, say,
like, you know, weekly, monthly,when it comes time to write that

(29:08):
review, you have all your dataright there to pull from. Yeah,

absolutely, yeah. And you know what? It's
not going to be to anybody'sadvantage if you, if you don't
remember, they're not going toremember for you unless their
performance is tied to yourperformance, right, right? You
know so if their performance istied to your performance, but
that don't mean that they maygive you credit for your
performance. They may justrestate what your performance is

(29:36):
on whatever document selfassessment that they may have
for their performance, but no,we have to keep track of our
wins, because we forget we moveon to the next thing.

And I want to go back to something else you said.
You talked about how a lot ofdecisions are made outside of
the office. So what advice wouldyou have for women who may be
like the first woman or like theonly woman, woman in. In like a
male dominated environment to,you know, get comfortable, to
even attend some of those out ofwork events, if they're only, if
they're, they're only going tobe the first and the only in the

(30:08):
room.

Uh, to me, the fact that you are the
only, you're going to stand out.You're going to stand out more
so, so you're the only woman onthe team everybody likes to win
now. And I'm not downplaying anyany hardships that women and
male dominated environments havewent through. But what I will
tell you is that everybody likesto win, so you have to bring

(30:34):
your A game. So you have to bethe best at what you do. You
have to be the best. So youcan't just be a woman,
unfortunately, and just bemarginal like the guys. It could
be 100 guys on a team, and nowyou're 101 employee, and you're
the only woman and you'remarginal. What you want to do is
be the woman and stand out,which, again, needs to be. You

(30:56):
need to bring your A game sothat when you are communicating
with them. Not only are youcommunicating at a higher level
because you're extraordinary andthey're ordinary to say it like
that at a higher level, but youadd value to the conversation
when you when you step on theme.And so to me, it's all the more

(31:18):
reason to stand out when you arethe only and the first. And many
times I've been the only woman.I've been the only person of
color and the only woman. Sothey checked off two blocks, and
now that I'm over 40, I'm theonly woman. I'm the only
sometimes it's the young kidsthat are there, and I'm the
oldest too. But when I walk inthe door, I add value to the
conversation, and they lookforward to what I have to say,

(31:40):
because I have a reputation ofadding value to the
conversation, and sometimesadding value is not taking over
the conversation, it islistening to everybody else and
filling in the gaps of what theydon't consider. So sometimes I'm
the last person to talk. Mosttimes I am the last person to
talk. Very rarely do people letme leave a meeting and not say

(32:00):
anything, because they invitedme to the meeting, because they
figured I had something of valueto add. And so because I have a
reputation of being one of thelast people to speak before they
adjourn that meeting, they'llsay, Well, Karen or Dr Pruden,
do you have anything you want toadd? And then what do I do? I
take everything that I've heardthe whole time and said nothing,

(32:21):
and figure out what the gapsthat they haven't considered,
and put those gaps with theirproblems on the table to say, I
hear this was said, and that wassaid, Have we considered a, b,
c, d? Because if you are notsaying anything in a meeting,
then you need to be taking ineverything that is being said
and figuring out what how isthis going to help you achieve

(32:43):
your goal, or how is it going tobe a barrier to what it is that
you're talking about? And by thetime the question gets around to
you about what your thoughtsare, then all you need to lay on
the table is what someone elsehas not said or considered.

Doctor Karen, you were dropping so many gems,
like, I love what you said.Women are extraordinary, men are
ordinary.

Yep, that's why I said yes.

And your strategy just to highlight the gaps in
the conversation that folks maynot have

addressed. Yeah, one of my, one of my
things that kind of make myblood boil when someone gets the
opportunity to talk and theyrepeat something that has
already been said, yeah, yeah.It's like you just, you're just
wasting my time. You're justtalking for the sake of talking.
But if you have the opportunityto add something that we didn't
consider, then come on, bringit. Say it, but don't repeat

(33:37):
something that's been said 15different ways in this room,
because now that's the reasonwhy people hate meetings. Yes,
yes.

Well, Doctor Karen, I know you've authored
over 30 books and receivedcountless accolades. How do you
stay motivated and balancedwhile managing your career?

I'm a busy body. I love everything
that I do. And actually, myhusband just said to me
yesterday, I think he was takinga dig at me. He was like, you
don't have a off switch. And Iwas like, because I like
everything, I like everythingthat I do, but and I thought
about it after he said that, andI said, you know, what a

(34:18):
wonderful place it is to be inmy life where I enjoy everything
that I do, yeah,

yeah, that's true. And if I'm putting short
with that, it doesn't feel likework to you, because you enjoy
it so much. Correct?

Which is, which was his issue, you
know? Because he feels like I'mworking around the clock, which
I don't, I don't work around theclock. Don't believe the rooms
you hear. But, um, but I do worka lot, you know, because I do
have various businesses, and Ido work for someone else, but I
don't mind putting in an extrahour sometime at night or doing
an interview or something, if itis in my lane of brilliance,

(34:53):
because I feel like if someonehears me talk, then maybe I can
help elevate the next woman orthe. Next leader. You know, you
can't take all your talents tothe grave. You know, I think you
do yourself an injustice. Andfor me, it is about influence
and impact. I want to use myinfluence to impact others by
sharing everything that I know.I'm not one that hoards

(35:15):
information, because I'm alifetime learner. You will never
know everything that I know,because I'm always still
learning, and so I'm not onethat feels like I can't share
stuff with people. And so I do alot of interviews. I mean, I do
about five, six podcastinterviews a week. I do
Association. I speak inconferences, I global speak. I'm

(35:36):
a coach for certainorganizations, Chamber of
Commerce. My goal is to I wouldlike to see more women leaders,
but if it can't be a womanleader, can we just have a
competent leader who hasemotional intelligence? Yes, you
know, who has technicalexpertise and who is willing to
share. So I'll take that in aman or a woman. If it can't be a

(35:59):
woman, then I'll take that in aman, but it needs to be
emotionally intelligent, yes,you know. And they need to have
the technical competence and bewilling to share.
Yes,

yes, all of that, all of that. Well, Doctor Karen,
with so many achievements, whatdo you hope your lasting impacts
on the leadership landscape willbe,

wow. So if God took me away from here
tomorrow, and I would hope thatthat day where people are
talking about me, that they willtalk about how much I shared,
you know, how much I shared, andhow it changed and impact their
life. Um, my I don't live andget up every day to leave a
legacy, but I do know that weall leave some type of legacy,

(36:55):
and I just want my legacy to beone where I helped others and I
didn't hoard my knowledge andhoard my information that I
shared as much as I could shareI was asked to share so that
others can elevate themselvesquicker, you know, so that they
can get their goal to theirgoals quicker and so they can

(37:15):
sustain themselves. Because Ibelieve that women aren't in
senior leadership is still adisparate impact, not because of
a lack of talent. I think it's alack of knowledge of what is
needed. It is plenty of womenout here who have the skills,
but if they go into theleadership process talking about
what they did last week, nowthey're behind the eight ball
because we're talking about whatwe're doing three years down the

(37:38):
road, leadership and managementare not synonyms. And so first,
we need to educate each other onthe difference between
management and leadership, andthen we need to tell people what
leadership really is, because itis more than six figures and
your parking space and a niceoffice. Oh, I'm usually in the

(38:00):
office, when my staff is athome, a lot of times, I send my
staff home, and I'm thereworking so that they can go
home. And so it's a lot oftimes, it's a lot of sacrifice.
You're the most vulnerable thehigher up you go, and you're the
most vulnerable because yoursuccess depends on everybody up
under you. And so you have tolook at the mental health of

(38:21):
everybody up under you, you needto make sure they have the
resources they need. Andresources, not just money,
resources time. Resources is theability to do their job with
different things, the computerand sometimes it could even be a
particular chair if they'resitting down for long periods of
time. But your employees needthe resources they need so that
they can produce and produce andbe happy when they produce. They

(38:45):
don't have to be ecstatic. ButCan, can we just be happy? Can
they be happy? Can we just, canwe just see a smile when we walk
in the hallway and see ouremployees? Because that makes we
spend a lot of time at work. Wedo. We do. And it shows on your
employees face when you don'thave an environment where people
are laughing and giggling andhaving fun, it may not be the

(39:07):
healthiest of an environment,because even the hardest workers
periodically laugh, joke andhave fun at work, it goes back
to what you said about needingemotionally intelligent leaders.
Like an emotionally intelligentleader will look for those
things. Yes, absolutely. Takeaction when they don't see those

(39:29):
things existing. Sorry, askquestions. You know, I can, I
can. My employees can walk in,and one of them can walk past
me, and my spirit will say,something's going on,
something's going on. And sowhen they by the time they get
to their office, I'm there, Hey,where's that? Smile, or I didn't
hear you joke today, or what'sgoing on. You want to talk, and
it's up to them. They may notwant to talk, but I want them to

(39:52):
know I recognize that you aren'twho you generally show up as
every day, and you are seen.Yeah, so you see. Yeah, yeah,
yeah. Don't see their people orpeople absolutely so I don't
force them to talk. But theythey and they'll say, oh, had a
bad night, not really ready totalk about it. No problem. I

(40:14):
just want to let you know that Inoticed that you aren't you know
you aren't who you normally are.Wow,

that's amazing. I want to switch gears a little
bit and move into a lightninground, and this is how the
listeners get to know a littlebit more about you. Want to
rapid fire questions. Let's doit. All right. Are you ready?
Yes, yes. All right. Firstquestion. One thing I try to do

(40:41):
every day is,

wow. One thing, eat popcorn. Don't judge
me. Flavor, sweet and sorrow.Kettle Corn.

Okay, okay. Next question, I feel most alive
when,

when I'm talking about leadership,
believe it or not, I really feelalive, just if I especially to
someone who aspires to be aleader. I just love it because
their eyes, they're like hookedinto you, and you know they're
gonna take what you say and sitback and let it marinate and
possibly use the information

you're you're lighting up right now, yeah,
just

Yeah. I love talking to aspiring people.

Okay, a professional experience that
shaped who I am today was

learning how to not write, write long
emails on my on my cell phone. Igot called in to task for
misspelled words, and and thatwas interesting, because that
boss said that I needed aspelling class. And here I was
in the C suite she's talkingabout I need a spelling class. I
was like, the devil is a lie.Let me figure out what's going

(41:54):
on. So I figured out that I amnot at my best writing long
emails on my small screen on mycell phone. So now I don't do
any more to two to threesentences on my cell phone, and
I wait until I get to my laptop.But that was a professional
lesson that I had to learn. Ihad to do some self assessment

(42:16):
as to what is she talking aboutmisspelled words. She showed me
the emails. They were definitelymisspelled. And so I thought
about what I was doing when IOkay, and I was doing it on my
cell phone. So you can't doeverything on your cell phone
contrary to popular beliefs, atleast I can't.

Well, that's great self awareness on your
part.

Yes, absolutely. Because girl, she
told me, I need a spellingclass, I was like, what?

Okay, my go to mantra for tough times is,

no excuses. Make it happen.

Love it. Love it. When I need a quick energy
boost, I eat. I eat. What's yourfavorite food to eat? Oh, wow,
popcorn, the cattle corn, yes,the boldest risk I've ever taken
was,

oh, I'm in the midst of it right now. I
just hired a six figure coach,wow, like, Oh my god. Each
month. I'm like, Oh my God, whenit's time for that payment, but
yeah, but I'm already seeing theimpact of the of the coach, but
yeah, that's the largest amount.So it's a long way from the 350

(43:32):
an hour. Wow,

but you've come a long way. Sister, I have, yes, I
have last question to me,success means

influence and impact. Okay, yeah, being
able to influence others andhave an impact on others. Mm,
hmm,

well, Doctor Karen, before we wake, um, wrap
up, I have one last question Ilike to ask all my guests, and I
know you're a busy body, as yousay. So what do you like to do
when you aren't fearlesslyleading

so I am a law junkie, so I like looking
at law and order, and dependingon how long, depending on where
people met me, I actually wentto law school. I decided I
didn't want to be a lawyer inlaw school, and I ended up
getting my doctorate insomething else because I didn't,
but I actually made it all theway to law school and decided,

(44:30):
Nope, don't want to do this, butI love law, so I am a law and
order junkie. All of the law andorders. You can find a law and
order anytime of the day, everyday, on cable, and I am there
sitting there looking at law andorder. Wow, you have

so many layers to you. Doctor Karen,

I hope that's a good thing,

a wealth of knowledge to bring to everyone
that's amazing.

Uh, thank you. You too, kind. I.

Well, thank you so much for sharing your
insights with us today. How canthe listeners stay connected
with you and the work thatyou're doing?

Unknown (45:05):
So I play on LinkedIn. You want to find me. I put
everything on LinkedIn. SoLinkedIn is my sandbox. Is how I
say it. I also have a websiteunder my name,
drkarenhillspruden.com um, Ialso want to offer your
listeners a free downloadable Ihave the QR code for those who

(45:25):
are visually able to see me,that's right above me, but it'll
also be in the pot in thepodcast notes, a link of 20
items that you can ask for inaddition to salary, to increase
your total compensation. Becausewith my clients, we think total
compensation, not just salary.And I've had some clients who

(45:47):
double and triple their totalcompensation because of the
additional things outside ofsalary that they ask for. And so
let's think total compensationfor those that are entrepreneurs
and working for others,

wow. Well, thank you for that generous gift. I
will make sure they get the thelink to download that

absolutely, absolutely and thank you for
having me, my

pleasure, my pleasure. And to our listeners,
thank you so much for joining ustoday. If you enjoyed this
episode, please share it withsomeone who needs to hear it.
Thanks for tuning in today untilnext time, take care. Hey,
fearless leaders, we've been onthis journey for over a year. I
want to take a moment to thankyou for your support. If you

(46:29):
love what you're hearing on theflow podcast, please consider
supporting us on buy me acoffee. At
buymeacoffee.com/angelaVHarris,every little bit helps us keep
these conversations going. Thankyou for being a part of the flow
family. Thank you for listeningto the flow podcast as we wrap

(46:57):
up today's episode, alwaysremember your unique path, your
voice and your leadershipmatter. If you loved what you
heard, subscribe now to stayupdated on our latest episodes.
Take a moment to leave a reviewand share this episode with
someone who can benefit fromthese conversations. You can

(47:20):
stay connected with me onInstagram at the
@theflowpodcastwithangela, orvisit me on the web at
AngelaVharris.com Until nexttime, take care. Stay inspired
and keep fearlessly leading inyour own way. You

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