From Bankrupt to Boss Moves

Episode Transcript
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Angela Harris (00:05):
Welcome to the flow podcast, fearlessly leading
our way. This podcast is a spacededicated to spotlighting the
unfiltered voices of black womenin their unique leadership
journeys. I am your host, AngelaV Harris, I'm an award winning

(00:27):
coach, speaker, author andchampion from black women. Make
sure you like and subscribe tothis podcast to stay connected
to our conversation, let's getready to flow.

(00:53):
Hey, fearless leaders, welcomeback to another exciting episode
of the flow podcast. I'm yourhost, Angela V Harris, and today
we're taking things global.That's right, my guest is
joining us all the way fromLondon, and I can't wait for you
to meet her. I'm thrilled towelcome the incredible Natalia

(01:13):
Nicholson, founder of Women indigital business, a community
dedicated to supporting BlackWomen Entrepreneurs scaling
online businesses. Natalia is ona bold and unapologetic mission
to empower 1 million black andbrown women entrepreneurs to
achieve digital success. She's apowerhouse entrepreneur with a

(01:38):
journey filled with resilienceinnovation and unwavering
passion for uplifting others,from experiencing bankruptcy to
building and selling a thrivingcleaning business, Natalia story
is one of grit, determinationand absolute brilliance. Today,
she's sharing her journey, herinsights on digital marketing,

(02:02):
her experience of navigating theblack experience in the UK
versus the US, and how she'screating her own table while
bringing others along on thejourney, I promise this episode
is going to leave you feelinginspired, motivated, and ready
to chase your own dreamsfearlessly. So without further

(02:24):
ado, let's dive into thisconversation with the incredible
Natalia Nicholson, welcome tothe show, Natalia,

Natalia Nicholson (02:33):
thank you for having me, Angela. It's an
absolute pleasure to be here.Well,

first of all, tell the listeners where you are
joining us from

so I am joining you from the United
Kingdom. I am in London, and Irun a community called Women in
digital business, which isspecifically for black women who
have got online businesses,whether it's a digital product
or it's an e commerce Store,really teaching them how to
scale up and get customers.

Well, I love that. And you are our second
guest from the UK in season one.Episode Two, we welcome blessing
adagami, who is currently livingin London. She's a student at
UCL working on her master'sdegree.

Interesting. Yeah, usually in similar playing
grounds, actually field. So wealso teach an entrepreneur
program at York University,which is a part of the LC LCU as
well. Interesting.

Yeah, I have to connect the two of you. Well,
let's dig into your story. Iremember when we had our initial
conversation, you said that thebiography of Harriet Tubman
changed your life, and she isone of my sheroes. So tell us
about that, yeah,

for sure. Um, I think growing up in the UK is
very different to growing up inthe United States. However,
we're all interconnected. So myparents are from Jamaica. I'm
from the Caribbean, soespecially when you're from the
islands, I mean, we're a part ofthe Commonwealth, so you're from
the Atlantic slave trade, whichgenerally means that, you know,
you'll have family that willlead the Caribbean, and they

(04:03):
will go to England, Canada,America, because they're looking
for a better life. So I verymuch come from that generation,
in terms of my mum and dad. Somy mum and dad don't come from
the UK, but this is where theylanded and settled. And
actually, most of my mum'sfamily landed and settled in the
United States of America, sothat meant that I would go back

(04:25):
and forth a lot. So I wouldspend most of my summers in
Florida, or I'd send them out inJamaica, because that generation
was all about saving becausethey wanted a better life. And
I'm second generation, I thinkwhen you're second generation,
it's very different. There's asense of not belonging, because
you'll go back to Jamaica, yourhome country, and it's kind of
like, well, you're lucky. Youlive where the Queen lives.

(04:45):
You've got loads of opportunity.And then when you're here in the
UK, you know, I remember beingat school, and people would say
things to me like, oh, you know,is that your mum, where I might
have a different tone of skincompared to my mum? Does that
make any sense? Oh. God, yourhair feels like cotton wool or
the monkey sounds so sometimes Iwant to speak about diversity.
I'm only 46 if I experience thatat school, we have to ask

(05:09):
ourselves, have attitudes reallycompletely change and have
things been eradicated? Becausethat means any parent that was
in my generation that wasracist, you would have filtered
those ideologies and blueprintsdown to your own children. So I
think for me, at the age that Iam, I'm very aware that, yes,
we've come a long way, but Iremember how it used to be even

(05:30):
being second generation, but youkind of pushed through because
your parents are like, Well, wedid all of this for you so you
can get a better opportunity. SoI think round about the age of
about 14, I just got reallycurious of who I was. I just
didn't get it. I didn't get whyI was called an ethnic minority.
I didn't get that I would go toAmerica, and people would
constantly be like, Yeah, I'mAfrican American. I'm like,

(05:51):
African who like, it just didn'tmake sense to me. So I became
curious. And when I kept askingmy parents, I didn't really get
any long answer, because I thinkthey just had that. Keep your
head down. Do good get a goodjob. Don't worry about all of
that. Things are changing. Youdon't need to focus on all of
that. So I got really curiousabout black history, and I

(06:12):
remember going to the libraryasking, you know, do you have
any books on black history? Andthen there's like, this small,
little shelving unit. So one ofthe biographies that I pulled
out was Harriet Tubman. So whenI read, and I to have such, you
know, a graphical account ofactually, what was happening in
slavery in America at that time,and to know the amount of slaves

(06:35):
that she freed, to hear herstory, how she was beaten,
raped, and all the things thatshe went through, but then what
she went on to achieve, it justgave me this sense of, you know
what girl, if she can do all ofthat to make life better, you've
got it easy. You can do what youwant to do. You can sky's the
limit. And that's how thatautobiography made me feel. It
was just simply like, you knowwhat I'm going to put my wish

(06:57):
list together. So I think mycraving for wanting to be
something successful. Startedfrom about the age of 14, and
the first thing I said I wantedto be Angela. I remember it. The
first thing I said I wanted tobe was the first Jamaican female
black president. And I remembersending the careers advisor in
school. And at first shelaughed, you know? And you

(07:18):
think, Oh, my God, you know,she's commending me. Now she
wasn't commending me, she waslaughing at me, not with me. And
that's when I realized that, youknow, there's going to be a lot
of people on my journey that aregoing to tell me that I can't do
something, and I think over theyears, that chiddled Its way at
me, it could knock yourconfidence. It can take that
belief away. And I think that'sone of the reasons why I started

(07:42):
the community in the firstinstance. I don't feel like
anybody has the right to dealanyone. They cannot do anything.
And I also think as a society,when it comes to black people
and black women, we're just veryundervalued. Got some big
dreams. We've got so much grit,so much tenacity, and if we
could just have a place in aforum to be able to express that

(08:03):
in we would go so far. So thatwas really the that was the
beginning of me knowing that Iwanted to have some change
within our community. But backthen, I just didn't understand
what that looked like. Mm, firstof all,

this is like so much to unpack. There's so much
to unpack, but I'm glad youtouched on, I guess, the the
black experience in the UK,because, again, I'm in the
United States, but I guess, whatI want to know is, I guess,
like, how does the experiencecompare for for black women like

(08:35):
you kind of touched on it, and,yeah,

it's Very different. It's very different
because in the UK, you know, theUK owned the Commonwealth. Okay,
the UK claim people likeChristopher Columbus. And for
any of those who are Caribbeanthat's listening to this like
it's so funny. When I wasyounger, I just say to my dad,
let's call you learn aboutChristopher Columbus. I say to
my dad, who's ChristopherColumbus. And he would turn

(09:00):
around and say, Here, my teeth.And I didn't really understand
it at the time. So I think inthe UK, you know, you've got all
these great heroes likeChristopher Columbus, you've
got, you know, the English, youknow, pioneering. They own the
Commonwealth, and they've doneso much for all the countries in
the commonwe And they're a partof it. And then when you really
start to learn black history.You start to learn that the

(09:22):
Commonwealth was a place wherethey used to go to different
countries, conquer and divideand take these countries over.
But it's not quite talk. Talklike that. You at school. So in
the UK, is very much a cultureof it's all inclusive. You know,
you're one of us. And it was thereason why the Wind Rush period
even happened. You had loads ofimmigrants coming over from

(09:43):
Jamaica, Trinidad, all over theCaribbean, because they felt
like there was opportunity,because that's what was sold to
them. And then when they gothere, the racism was pretty
horrific. But and there's evendocuments, when you look
historically, that will refer toblack people as the subject, but
on the first. Face of it in theUK, come and join us. You're
also a British citizen. So it'svery much institutionalized,

(10:06):
whereas America is is built on aculture of segregation. You
know, if we just look at how itwas when blacks were given their
freedoms now, it was like, youknow, you can't, you can't drink
from a fountain with you. Youhave to stand on the bus. The
whole system is built onsegregation. And even growing up
going to the United States ofAmerica, I definitely felt that

(10:27):
I would see like, especiallybeing in Florida that's so near
to the Caribbean, the Haitianswould stay with the Haitians.
The Jamaicans are the Jamaicans,the African Americans with the
the African American, the PuertoRicans in the Puerto Rican. So
in one sense, being black in theUK would unite you, because you
just run to each other. So if atschool, there would only be
about 10 of you in the wholeschools, it didn't matter

(10:47):
whether you were African, PuertoRican, China. You're running to
each other because you feelalienated from the system. It's
not quite obvious we're inAmerica. It's so segregated.
It's like each culture just kindof sticks to its own. So that's,
that's the biggest differencebetween the between the two. I
would say here in the UK andEurope, it's a lot more
institutionalized in America, isvery much more in your face. So

(11:10):
depends on what you prefer. Idon't think one's better than
the other. Just today, you know,it's a different style of
communication. America will justsay you're black. It's not
happening for you, and be quiteunapologetic about it. The UK
will be like, Oh, we're sosorry. We've got a new policy
coming in. So, you know, holdon, we're getting there. We're
all together. So it just dependson what side of language you

(11:33):
like, if that makes any sense.

Like, the one thing I noticed as I have these
interviews with the guests isthat I grew up in Washington,
DC, and I would like you I grewup in the 80s and the 90s, so
during that time, Washington, DCwas a predominantly black city,
so all my all of my schoolprincipals were black. Majority
of my teachers were black. Soblack history was like, always
taught, you know, in myclassroom. So I just recognized

(11:59):
the privilege that I had growingup in DC during the time where I
did this is as it relates to,like, education and being
educated about my black history.Yeah,

I think for me, I grew up in a place where,
for my mom and dad, it was like,let's keep her out of those
areas, because we want them todo well, you know, there were
some parents that moved furtherout. So it's funny, I spent the
first part of my youth, up untilabout seven eight, living near a
place called Brixton, which isincredibly urban, all black
people, so you're kind of goingthrough a struggle together, but

(12:29):
in the UK, you still wouldn'thave been taught black history.
And if you were, it wouldliterally be at the level of
like Martin Luther King. I thinkonce I figured out slavery, I
started to go back and back andback. I took my time, and that's
when I realized, okay, so it's abit like the museum. One of my
best trips to Washington waslast year, by the way, I got the

(12:51):
absolute pleasure of visitingthe African American Museum in
America, and the way that it'sbuilt on the pyramid, and you
start at the bottom, you knowyou're going through, like from
kente, yeah, space gettingcaptured. And it leads all the
way up to the black tankmovement, where drugs are
flooded into our community. Sowhen you start to get an
understanding of the wholepicture, you start to soon

(13:13):
realize that even if you wasbrought up in a black area, my
area segregation, or the UK,there's a lot of think tanks
that went through a lot toreally figure out, how do I keep
these group of people down? Andagain, that became my motivation
of thinking, hang on a minute.How do I make just like Harriet
Tubman, how do I make a changeon a wider scale? It's just
taken me a long time to figureout, what does that look like.

(13:36):
But my motivation, I think itwas speaking to you before this
podcast. It just made gave mereal clarity of My why is that?
I want us to succeed. I don'twant me to succeed. I want us to
succeed. Because I'm done. I'mdone waiting for a seat at the
table, waiting for that crumb tofall off or piece of dust. I'm
done waiting for some type of Idon't know what it is we're

(13:56):
waiting for, but it's the sameevery decade. It just seems to
be the same narrative to me. Idon't really see change. And
even when I think about I grewup in the 80s and 90s and
sometimes, and I really thinkabout all the parties I was
going to and the music that Ilistened to, even when you
listen back to the lyrics, andeven when you look at now, and
we're talking about ownership ofmusic, music was also used

(14:17):
against us to keep us down, bygetting us to focus on things
that are never going to benefitus or moving forward, who signs
artists based on singing aboutdrunk drugs, violence,
prostitution, and disrespectingof a woman who does that. And
then on top of it, you don'teven own the music you're
publishing. I think when Istarted to educate myself, it

(14:40):
started to come from loads ofareas. And I think areas. And I
think for me, music and sportsis a big thing that when you
start to educate yourself on it,and you start to see how the
system is built, it's justslavery. In another fall,
they've just it in capital.They've just capitalized it.
That's all you.

One thing, I guess, like one theme I'm
noticing about you, is thatyou've been very intentional
about educating yourself. Yousaid that black history wasn't
taught in your schools, justlike maybe a handful of books.
But you've been very intentionalabout learning learning about
your culture. Definitely

my first business that I went bankrupt
with is actually an onlinebookstore, so back in 2003
imagine how old I am. In onesense, I'm only 46 could you
imagine that? I remember whenAmazon launched? Like, Isn't
that wild?

Unknown (15:32):
You look fabulous. Um, some people don't feel it. We
should have bought shares.Angela, you should have bought
shares.

That is true,

if only I understood financial literacy
all the way back then. Because Itell you what, I would have
emptied out my bank account. Ibought loads of shares. So I
grew up in the time. I rememberwhen Amazon came out, his
competitor was bond and noble,and at that time, I felt like
the book industry wasresponsible for hiding a lot of
our knowledge. You know, MalcolmX said, you know, if you want to

(16:07):
hide something from blackpeople, put it into a book,
because they flooded the marketwith so many distractions. For
us, it took away from reading.But even if you did want to read
some of the great books thateducate you, are often out of
print. So I know this fromhaving my own book business. So
I used to go to New York a lotwhen I was around my mid 20s,
because I would go and look forbooks and bring them back to the

(16:28):
UK, and kind of really figureout, like, how do I get these
books on the shelves? I evenstarted school campaigns with
the National Literacy trust. Iused to get, like, BC list
celebrities, put them onposters, put them in schools. So
yeah, you're right. My mypassion for really giving back
to my community, started throughbooks. I think once I started

(16:50):
reading, I just had this passionand kept reading. But I did have
to stop at a while Angela,because I became very angry, by
the way. I think in another timeI would have definitely been one
of the Panther it can take over.And then I thought to myself,
I've got to figure out a way tobe smarter, if that makes any
sense, to get results. Because Iwas starting to get very angry

(17:11):
when you consume yourself withthat much of content. You know,
I had the business, and I wasputting so much in the business
for awareness. I wasn't gettingthe return on investment. I
didn't understand business atthat point, and that's how I
ended up going bankrupt at thattime. I just It crushed my soul.
If you want to be honest withyou, I'll never forget it. There
was a day that everyentrepreneur that goes bankrupt

(17:33):
will have. That day, by the way,it's called the day of your
current reality thinking in youescape. You've got this
resistance to change. You know,people would see me and say, you
know, how's the business? It'sso great what you're doing. I
love it. And I'll be like, Yeah,it's really cool. We're in
school. We're doing a promotionwith the local black newspaper.
You know, all the things I toldyou about, posters with the

(17:54):
celebrities. But actually, inthe background, the reality was
I would be like, leaving workfrom these offices that I will
be renting, and I might justsay, Oh, hey, Angela, I've seen
you for a while. I'll pop round.That was me thinking, Okay, I'll
get my meal for tonight fromAngela's house. But when you're
in it, you're not looking at it.It's what people don't
understand. You're not lookingat it like you've got no money
or you're homeless. In yourmind, you're like, Well, I'm

(18:16):
still working. I'm a goodperson. Look what Harriet Tubman
did. I know it might sound veryromanticizing, but you're not
actually checking into realityat that point. And I think there
was a day not I think I know nothing I was meant to be going on
a girls trip to my friends, likeevery year in January, we used
to do this trip with me. And myfriends used to get really low
cost airlines, and we'd go toEurope as when I realized I

(18:39):
can't go because I don't have nomoney. I've got no money to get
to the airport. That was the dayI put my cash card into the cash
point. And back in those days,it would just take your card. So
it took my part. And that was aday where it's like, right? I'm
going to have to tell theoffices, I've got to move out.
I've got no more money. I can'tcontinue the journey. So I kind
of took that right up until thelast minute, the last second in

(19:02):
the day, I ran that businessinto the ground until I couldn't
do it no more, until I had tosay to people, I can't I was
facing repossession of my ownflat, so what you call an
apartment. So in the space ofone week, it was horrible. I had
to sit down with friends andsay, I can't come. I've got no
money. It's gone. I had to go tothe landlord of the building and
say, I'm moving out. Washorrible. Had to face had to go

(19:25):
explain to my mum and dad whathad happened. Moved back home
because I was getting theeviction and repossession
notice. So I'd actually managedto buy my own property, and I
lost all of that. So I wentthrough a period of just feeling
really like I didn't deservethat. Like, what did I ever do?
I'm a good person. I wanted tochange people's lives, and it
just took me a long time, but itwas the best thing that ever

(19:46):
happened to me. It toughened meup. It made me go away and learn
more about business and not justabout the greater good and
wanting to do something. Doesthat make sense? It also gave me
a it toughened me up a lot. Noone was no. Was taking liberties
with me, or give, you know,telling me the sky's blue, when
telling me the sky's red, shouldI say, when it's blue, it just

(20:07):
toughened me up, and it taughtme about core basics of business
and supply and demand. And funnyenough, I got back on my feet by
starting my own cleaningbusiness. So when I went
bankrupt from the book business,all I had left was stock. So I
used to put all my books into asuitcase, and I would go to a
market every weekend, so that'swhat you guys would call a flea
market. And I would set all mybooks up and like, I'd have

(20:30):
loads of books left over, likemy Martin biography, down to, oh
my god, could you remember? Wasit VIDEO VIXEN, the same girl
that's in the press now thatused to talk about me? Wow.
Anything from history tochildren, I literally sold eight
of their books. So I would turnup at the market with all these
suitcases, and I was liquidatingmy stock. And it's funny, that's

(20:51):
how I actually met my dear, thenhusband. And it's funny, like he
always used to help me. I usedto think to myself, I don't need
no one liking me right now. Iwas like, God, I'm asking you
for money, and you sent me a manlike, No. And it's funny, we got
together, and he was the onethat gave me 600 pounds to start
my own business again. But thistime, I started a cleaning
business. So Angela, I literallyused to be on the phone, be

(21:14):
like, hello. S is countycleaners? Yeah, we can send
someone round. And then I wouldturn up and be like, Yeah, I'm
the cleaner, and try and changemy voice, picking the phone up,
I lost that's how I actually gotmyself back on my feet. I then
started cleaning for a securitycompany, and they were like, you
know, we've got some offices wedo security at it'd be great if

(21:36):
you come on board and did thecleaning. And then I started to
get, like, national contract,and that's actually how I built
myself back up and sold thatbusiness for half I had half a
million turnover. So I wentfrom, yeah, that's how I ended
up getting myself back on myfeet, and that's when I decided
that I was going to get intocoaching, because I was just
tired of all these coaches lyingto people about how they could

(21:59):
help. They'd never run their ownbusiness before, but yeah, did
live coaching, but that didn'twork out for me very well. I'm
not a great life coach. I admitit, there is no I'm not a fairy
godmother, and I'm a bithardcore so and that's when I
decided I wanted to be anentrepreneur again. And I
thought, Okay, now Amazon's alot bigger. I'm going to get

(22:20):
some candles. Candles have got areally long sell by day. I'm
going to invest some of themoney I made from cleaning I
become a mum by that time. Sothe cleanings didn't suit me
anyway, cleaning premises andhaving people call you all hours
crazy in the morning. Um, itwasn't for me. So when I sold
that business, I invested in awhole stock of candles from
China. Um, designed my home, ownrange of luxury soy candles. And

(22:42):
this is a lesson to anyonelistening, by the way, do not
start a business that you don'thave a passion. So remember, I'm
frightened of what happened. Idon't want to go back to the
book days. So I've now got fear.My husband's very risk adverse.
So now it was a case of, youknow what? The candles is great
because they've got a long shelflife, they won't go off. I can

(23:03):
store them in the garage and theout building. You know, it just,
it just seemed to make sense. Sowith that, I've now got all of
these candles. I thought, yeah,I'm going to become an Amazon
seller. I'm going to move loads.And because I've bought them
from China in bulk, I've gotgreat margin, so I can drop the
price. And as an entrepreneur inthis country, Alan Sugar would
say, I can stack them high, sellthem cheap. So this was after

(23:26):
the cleaning business. I'm verycommercial. Now, it didn't work
out like that. So now they'reall on Amazon, but they're not
selling. Now I had to learn howto sell in E commerce, and
that's what started my journeyin digital marketing, and that's
where America has helped me outmassively. I started to go to
conferences. I started to reallyunderstand, like, how to connect

(23:47):
with people online. And gofigure that number one, I price
my candles way too cheaply. Soit's another lesson for anyone
listening. If you're going tosell a luxury item, don't go in
with like I did and think, Oh,well, have the margin undercut
everyone, because if youraudience is luxury, the minute
you're too cheap, they willthink to themselves, Hmm, why
are you so cheap? And you breaktrust. So that was a really good

(24:09):
lesson that I learned, and alsojust some of the cheesy sales
lines, you've got to be reallypassionate about what you do,
and candle lovers arepassionate. I love candles, but
not on the level of candlelovers. So once I sold out of
everything, I didn't actuallycontinue with that, because,
like I said, you need to dosomething you're passionate
about. So if I entered back intoE commerce, I already know what

(24:29):
I would do. I would love to do,like a range of sweatshirts or T
shirts for black womenempowerment. Because, as you can

hear from I could definitely see that for you. I
can definitely see that

you've got to do something you're passionate
about seriously as otherwise youwon't be able to connect with
your audience from a place ofthat, that that passion, if that
makes any sense,

yeah, well, that's such an incredible
journey to turn like, thatdevastating experience of like,
basically pouring your all intoyour business and having to shut
it down and being bankrupt. Youtalked about this. Story of
having your card, I guess, like,detained by by the bank machine,
but then you definitely, youknow, turn it around to be able
to sell your cleaning business.And then, you know, pivot into

(25:11):
another form ofentrepreneurship. So I'm, I'm
seeing or hearing serialentrepreneur vibes from you.

Yeah, I am, I am. And then that's what brought
me, with the women, into digitalbusiness. I think the coaching
was good, even though Idiscovered I wasn't a life
coach, what I discovered wasthat I was very good at
teaching. And believe it or not,Andrew, imagine that it wasn't
until about 3839 approaching my40s, that I discovered my gift.
So again, anyone listening,

yeah, you know, I think most businesses, or most
entrepreneurs, are started aboutpeople like in their 40s, 50s
and so 50s and 60s. So you'renot alone. Now let's look at my
journey. I spent 24 years incorporate America before I
pivoted out or truly found my Iguess, or ended up into my true
calling, which is anentrepreneurship in my coaching
business. Yeah,

it took me a while, and I figured out what
I'm good at is simplifyingthings for people to understand
it, and that's now the tool Ican take to help my own people.
And I'm quite unapologetic aboutthat. You I'm starting to see my
youth come back into my lateryears when people in the UK,
America doesn't people in the UKwill say, well, don't you think
you're alienating people by justsaying black women, I actually

(26:18):
don't care. You know, I feelalienated all the time. I didn't
see anyone worrying about me.And it's not really a tip for
tacting, if it you're I'm notyour audience, right, right?

Yeah, that's actually a great segue, because
your bio says that you're on abold and unapologetic mission to
empower 1 million black andbrown women entrepreneurs. So
tell us more about the work thatyou're doing with women in
digital business.

Definitely. So digital marketing is quite
new. Um, the digital age is new.I don't think we realize that
from 2017 we have never had asmuch advancements
technologically than we havenow. The smartphone has changed
the game. So the 1950s theyreleased a television to us.
Guess what? We walk around withthe television now, but we don't

(27:08):
have one channel. We havemultiple, and it's changed the
game completely. And I think forme, I felt like, actually, the
internet is a way to give us avoice. Yes, there's a lot of
fake news out there. Yes,there's a lot of things about it
that, you know, it's still, youknow, algorithms of social media
platforms are still racist. It'snot perfect. However, it gives

(27:29):
me a voice and it gives me aplatform. So I think coming into
the digital age, and we're at anage where you won't find many
people older than us, not reallyAngela, I tend to find,
especially when I'm consulting.I'm probably one of the oldest
in the room, around theboardroom table, because the
tech and digital space is quitevery new, and I don't think we

(27:49):
realize how new it is. So forme, I think my mission just came
about of okay, I'm just going tobe honest with you. There's the
internet, so you know, I'mallowed to be truthful and be my
trip and be my my truthful,transparent self. If they can
drop drugs onto the streets, I'mso sorry, and bring a whole

(28:10):
millions of us down, if I canjust this is how I look at it,
that I don't feel like a millionwomen is that much, by the way.
I feel like this is just astarting point, and this is
where, for me, it's legacy.Needs to be keep carrying of it.
Um, I feel like, if I can justdrop some of the cool things
that have happened to me, and Ican get women to actually
understand how to set online,just like how corporates do. If

(28:31):
you can understand how a salesfunnel works, and you can
understand how to connect withpeople online, I promise you,
you can bring your business towhatever level that you want.
The problem is, Angela, noonewants to teach us this. I've
worked for some major brands inhelping small businesses, and
I've been on stages. And I'm notexaggerating as a facilitator,
not as myself. I have yet tobreak that seat in height, which

(28:54):
is what I'm doing. And sometimesI will look at the slides behind
me and I think to myself, lies.Lies. That is just not true,
because the context is missing.So even when they say they're
offering programs to help ourcommunity, and there's free
programs you can go on to buildyourself up digitally, they're
not really teaching you thethings that Nike are doing or

(29:15):
what Uber's doing or Airbnb isdoing, because if you was to
just like how you was to teachfinancial education in schools
if they were to teach properlythe formula of how to sell
online. We as black people, as arace, oh my God, we've been
like, we go crazy because we'vebeen dying to just hold and do
our own thing, and we'll dowhatever it takes. If you look
at stories like the Black WallStreet, there's just been so

(29:37):
many times that as soon as weget there, you know, it's Jack
in the bean store, the nastygiant wants to come along and
just chop the root down. So mymission comes from wanting to
empower people, and a million isjust a start. My mission is also
tied into Africa. There is a lotof African women in our
community, and one of the thingsI'm doing at the moment is

(29:59):
actually build. Doing in Ghana.So places like Ghana are asking
for the dispora back likesometimes I wonder, Angela, what
would get up if every blackperson said I'm going whatever
they call home is and just gotup and went and left? I would
love so all the black out daysfully support it. But I feel

(30:19):
like as well, we need to startrising ourselves up. It is about
ownership. It's about going backto we've got links in countries
that would embrace us, theCaribbean, Africa, there's even
parts of Asia that would embraceus, help us with resources, and
help us to do things. So mymission is to contribute with
understanding. How do we sell?How do the big boys sell? How
did they get their cells upthere? And the internet allows

(30:41):
you to do that. So building thecommunity isn't just about
teaching people, it's also aboutwomen coming together. So one of
the things that I've done iswe're about to launch a summit.
It goes live next week. It's athree day summit called top 100
most powerful black women, andit's going to run twice a year.
The next one will be in October.And what I've done is I've just
stripped away all of the thingsthat have you even noticed?

(31:04):
There's a lot of partnershipsthat, when it comes to the
commercial world, that juststill want to hold you back.
Like, yeah, you know, you candeliver your presentation, but
you've got to have our logo andslides on it. There's no
upsetting at the end. It justseems like a whole load of rules
and regulations that don'treally help. So what I've done
with the summit is we charge ano brainer price of literally
just $97 that contributes to theadvertising to promote the

(31:27):
summit as a coach or consultantor somewhere where you can offer
value to another sister'sbusiness. You get to upsell to
the audience. You use your owndecks. You're allowed to do an
upsell at the end to whateveryou want. So the idea is to
create partnerships between usas women, where we can support
one another, and I build acommunity and a platform that

(31:47):
actually, you can educateyourself in, and you can also
find business in and haveauthentic relationships without
having to put that mask on. Um,simple things like, I'm came
here today with a podcast withyou. I'm rushing from work. I'm
thinking, I've gotta do thispodcast. I feel like with you, I
get to turn up with you. I couldhave been on another podcast,
and I might have thought, let mego and put some makeup on. Let

(32:09):
me tie my hair up. In ourcommunity. You just You are who
you are. You know you can beunapologetic. You can just turn
up for who you are. Becauseanother thing I think, working
in corporate UK, I don't know ifcorporate America is the same.
You can't come to work out youwant. I don't

even don't. That'll be a whole different
episode. But don't even startabout that, because as much, as
much as people say that bringyour authentic self to work, it
does not apply to us. I've

had comments about here. I've had comments
about COVID. I've remember beingat work, and then, yeah, no,
just come back moderna inJamaica. And they were like, oh,
did you have a nice timevisiting the family? I never
told you our

family the right? The assumptions, right? Yeah. Or

you come back with a tan, and no one even
wants to say or comment onanything, you don't get to turn
up as your authentic self. Youget to turn up as Barbie point
blank. And in our community, youknow, there is none of that. So
it's just being able to come andjust say what I'm having
problems with. You know, I trulybelieve that we need more
consultants, more coaches andmore therapists. Oh, even, yeah,

(33:15):
I would love a therapist, by theway. And the reason why I don't
have one is because in the UK,there isn't enough black women.
I don't feel

safe here. It's the same here in the United
States. Yeah, I'm reallysurprised. I thought it'd be I
think the I think from arepresentation perspective, I
think the therapist industry isabout maybe three or 4% black,
so it's really no different.

Unknown (33:35):
See a white therapist just doesn't understand me. So
then I think

there's a nuance. There's a nuance to the
situation. I agree.

It's just like, so, yeah, I just thought,
what was I? Yeah, I stoppedhaving a therapist. Seriously.
I, for me, it was just like,What am I actually, really
getting out of this? Because I'mchoosing my language and having
to explain something so you canunderstand it when I'm the one
that needs help. What sense is

this is adding more stress to this already
stressful situation.

So, yeah, I just, I just want to see us rise
up. And I think as well, I didgo with women. I just feel like
when I look at the Harris Tubmanstory, I look at my mum, I look
at many members of my family asa black woman, it's like, you
uphold your community, youuphold your family, then you
you've got business. But we dodo it very well. We're really
good at it, and we aresupporting global economies. We

(34:29):
really are. There is no othergroup that starts businesses the
fastest. As black women,

we don't have a choice. I feel like, to your
point, I feel we don't have achoice because we can't show up
authentically in our workplaces.We're being psychologically
harmed in our in our workplaces.We're not being valued in our
workplaces. So we have no choicebut, like you said, to create
our own tables. Yeah,

so that's really what the vision is about.
So when I say a million, I don'tactually think that's a lot, if
you think about the populationof all the states in America,
and the one thing I would say,though, is an. America has
embraced me. Um, I've gotnothing but love for the women
in America in terms of ourcommunity, the split is
surprising. Since we've beendoing loads of ads and we've
kind of really ramped it up thisyear, it's a 7030 split, 30% UK,

(35:15):
70% of America. I've beenembraced here, and I almost feel
like I found a tribe. You know?I

mean, that's priceless, like having that
feeling when you finally metyour your tribe, like, that's
priceless.

It is. Even now I just had, like, that fuzzy
feeling that just went through.So, yeah, I all I can do is keep
pushing forward, and if I themore women I can help and get on
board, and we can build anetwork of helping each other,
giving each other a platform.And like I said, what the summit
does? That $97 just contributesto ad budget. And if I'm
promoting the summit, I'mpromoting all of us, and it's

(35:52):
just about using that as aplatform and we build together.
So that's the vision,

yeah. And like, as you were speaking like you
are definitely embodying thespirit of Harriet Tubman is
bringing others along on ajourney with you, with Angela,
yeah,

actually, yeah, yeah. I've never looked at
it like that.

So I want to touch on the point, or the fact
that you've had so many asentrepreneurs. You know, it's
not an easy road you talkedabout, you know, your business
going bankrupt, and all the, youknow, devastating things that
you've experienced. So whatmotivated you to keep going, to
fight all those setbacks thatyou had? God, I can

tell you. So I decided to, you know what
families like, you know youcan't keep chasing your dreams.
You gotta go get a job. So Iwent back to the work Angela,
that's what happened. Oh, okay,I lasted three months. I'll
never forget. It was for acouncil, so local government,

(36:53):
and it was for their businesssector. And it's quite weird,
actually, because through it, Igot to go to funny that you
asking that question. So duringthis job, I got to go to South
Africa randomly. So this localgovernment, and this is the
things they spend grants on,they had a grant to send this
local government to South Africato encourage trade and

(37:14):
investment in South Africa,because this would have been
around the time that NelsonMandela was in power, and
obviously they were trying tostrengthen relationships between
South Africa and the UK. And atthe time again, I didn't really
truly understand theimplications. So I've got this
job at Croydon business. Croydonis a London borough, so gone to
South Africa, and thatexperience made me come back and

(37:38):
not go back to work. If you

actually say, I understand, you don't have to
say anymore.

And that's what I knew. You know what? It's
go hard or go home. I can't, Ican't, I can't, I can't be faint
to that level. I just can't. Itwas, it was literally that I
would have just ended up gettingsacked. I'd end up abusing
someone. I just couldn't. Itwasn't. It wasn't for me. And
then that's when I thought,Okay, let's go into the cleaning
business. And just seeing theway that the blacks got treated

(38:07):
in South Africa, that anger inme, it wasn't a good look. I
could not physically go back towork for that place. So that was
that so that it lasted threemonths.

What else so many women doubt themselves. So what
advice would you give to a womanwho knows she's capable of more
but struggles to see her ownvalue?

My dad used to say, show me your friends.
Show me yourself. And the reasonwhy I bring that up is really
important that you've got theright vibration around you, if
you know you've got peoplearound you that are feeding into
that narrative of staying safeand not doing it, and you know
you've got that inner voice.Because let's face it, ladies,
we've all got that inner voice.It's this ability of knowing

(38:52):
wrong or right. It's like havingthe bad boyfriend that you know
is really crap, and you justdon't get rid of them. And like,
you think to yourself, I've gota degree. I'm educated. Like,
why am I putting up with this?It isn't till the day that you
walk away and you realize butthen you hide stuff. So I would
say, number one, Be yourauthentic self. Listen to that
inner voice inside of you,because it's not just business.

(39:13):
If you listen to that authenticvoice and tell you the truth, it
will get you out of a lot ofproblems in life. And number
two, surround yourself with theenergy and vibration of people
and resources and tools that donothing but lift you up. Find
your tribe. And your tribe isn'talways obvious, by the way,
like, believe it or not, mytribe is imagine that I hang out
with funnel hackers. So I justcame back and a conference

(39:36):
called Funnel Hacking live I sawI do for a living. I build
funnels out, but within thatenvironment, I'm with a whole
load of other entrepreneurs thatare self made. So me hearing
constant stories and having youknow people like Myron golden,
does that make any sense onstage, or Tony Robbins, and I'm
listening to all these otherstories of entrepreneurs that

(39:57):
have made it and done it. Itkeeps me going because it lets.
Me. Know, you know what? Otherpeople have done it, I can do
it, and I'm getting there if Isurround myself with all my
friends at work nine to fivethat just like, you know what
they say to me, Angela on thatyou think big.

I'm a good thing. I'm a big picture thinker too,
like big, hairy, audaciousgoals. That's me.

Yeah, so you don't want to but it's no
disrespect to my friends and mygirlfriends that I went school
with and I might hang out with.I don't really tend to talk
business, and I don't reallytend to talk about doing. I'm
there for some part of escapism.Um, so you kind of gotta know
who you're talking to. You don'thave to stop talking to people.
You just need to know who you'retalking to find a tribe and just
make sure you keep yourselfaround high vibration and just

(40:40):
practice listening to that innervoice. It's not just for
business. That inner voice tellsyou when you're in a bad
relationship, tells you a lot ofthings. It's whether you're
going to listen to it or not,and to have the bravery to
listen to it. You do need peoplein your corner, kind of rooting
for you and validating you. Soit kind of gives you that
strength. And once you startlistening to that voice, you
don't go back. Like, even theother day, my husband said that

(41:02):
was really rude. What you justsaid? Like, I said to someone,
this is not my first rodeo.Like, I will cut loose and walk.
I'd like this when you've goneto the levels,

you know what it takes to get to where you want
to be, and you're not going tosettle Exactly.

And I also had horrible outcomes. I've had
to sleep on people's couches.I've had to move out sometimes
when you've had something awfulhappen to you, and that awful
can be financially, it could bepersonally. If you know what bad
is, how can I put it? You cantake everything I have away from
me. I know I have this to buildmyself back up again, and you
can't take that from me. So whenyou've got that inner strength,

(41:38):
you start to move with a lotmore confidence, because someone
can't, they can't take you awayfrom you. And I know it sounds
cliche, I love me, and I'malways going to put me first.
But that might sound selfish tosome people, that also help
listen to your inner voice aswell. And

I mean, what you said is so important, because a
lot of people, or just women ingeneral, I guess we, we truly
don't really value ourselves.We'll continue to stay in those
unpleasant, unservingsituations. Yeah,

most definitely. But sometimes you
need to, I think Angela, I don'tknow if that might I might know
that might sound bizarre. I feellike sometimes maybe you have to
stay in there until you've hadenough. Sometimes, I think you
don't change until you've hadenough, and when you've had
enough, and sometimes you get tobreaking point. That's when I
don't know change happens in agood way.

Well, other quote that you share from your father,
show me your friends. Show meyourself.

Um, my dad shared a lot of quotes with me,
actually. Um, bless him. He'snot here with me anymore.
There's any one thing I takeaway from him is Proverbs. He
was always quoting things to me.And it's important, because
sometimes you could be aroundBad Company, and there's
probably many examples of this,and get yourself into a life
changing situation just frombeing around the wrong company,

(42:53):
and people you know speakingabout vibration. Again, if
you're going to be around peoplethat have got a mindset, that
haven't got the same mindset ofwhere you're going, they hold
you back, yeah, rightly orwrongly, and it's not to say
that it's somebody else's fault,but if you want to have sorry to
use a legal term limitation,it's really important. And I

(43:13):
think as well, my dad alwaysteaching me that, and as I got
older, what that translated tome as well was that, if I'm
always the smartest person inthe room. How am I ever going to
progress and get forward? So I'mvery conscious about not always
wanting to be the talker in theroom or the one that's teaching
all the time. I want to be roomthat I'm being taught and I can
learn from. No

That makes complete sense. And so I heard
you say that's important tolisten to your inner voice and
find your tribe. What's onepiece of additional advice you
would give to a woman who's beenplaying it safe in her career,
but also feels called to buildher own table,

you really have to sit down and think, What
do I want out of life, as youought to be honest with you, and
you've really got to say, am Igoing to intentionally move to
get to this? Am I going to gothrough all the obstacles that
are going to might be putting myway? And I just think thinking
that it's an easy journey, it'snot. I think you have to embrace
being uncomfortable. You have toget used to being uncomfortable,
and the more you get used to itis, the more that you'll start

(44:10):
moving with confidence, andyou'll understand that being
uncomfortable is okay. And I'm awoman of God, I move with faith.
So if you've got faith, you cankind of move mountains, I would
say, for women that aren't sure,the first thing you want to say
is, in that gut, the pit of yourstomach, think about, what do I
want and can I do? I feel I canreligiously get to that point.

(44:31):
And I think once you haveaccepted himself to say, You
know what I can do, that startthere. You've got to start with
a place of where you want to bein a goal that even if it's out
of your reach, it feelsrealistic to you to get to it.
Yeah,

yeah. That's That's well said, like, so you
gotta believe it for yourself,because if you don't like, who
else is going to believe it?Yeah, for yourself. Definitely.

I think sometimes as well, when we're in
that place, we can think so big,we can't even seek to get to
that place. To scale it back toa point. Does that make any.
Sense of okay, I feel like I canget there and also give yourself
a time limit. I think we live inthe microwave age and Instagram
age of just thinking thateverything comes now and not
really giving ourselves enoughtime. I think that's

(45:12):
fundamentally a bit yeah,

yeah, you're right. You're right. I have to
remind myself, like the day youplant the seed is not the same
day you bear the fruit. It takestime for the Cs to grow,

and me too as well, because this life has
taught us that you can haveeverything like this. You know,
there's too good to be true.Usually it is sorry to be, um,
that's not me being a pessimist,but it takes work and think how
long it takes to be an expert.So what makes someone think that
they can come along and do it intwo years? Yeah? Um, yeah. Even
people say, you know, how do Ireally get to that level of
where you are. Time. Time, yeah,it's just built from experience.

(45:47):
I'm nothing special, but it'stime. And what I've built up
over years, and I just thinksometimes, like someone asked me
the other day, if you could goback and give your younger self
one piece of advice, what wouldit be? And Angela, it took me
days to answer it, believe it ornot, and then I realized what I
would tell her is, you don'tthink you've got all the time in
the world that you think you do.

Unknown (46:09):
Time is the one thing you can't get back. Once it's
gone, it's gone. Yeah? So, yeah,that would be my advice to get
ahead.

So, I mean, that's like, you gotta go all in
and go after your dreams, likeyou said, you said. You can't
get the time back.

Yeah, yeah. Once it's gone, it's gone. So
And don't think that you'vealways got time on your side, if
that makes any sense, go foryour goals and go for them. The
younger you start, the better.Yeah, you that's where you don't
want to procrastinate and youdon't want to be hanging around
with anybody that tells you youcannot do something like that's
my biggest thing. Nobody has theright to tell anybody they
cannot do anything.

Mm, hmm. Well, na Sally, I want to switch things
up and go into our lightninground. So I'm going to ask you a
couple of quick rapid firequestions. Are you ready? I'm
ready, right. What's one thingyou try to do every day?

What's one thing I try work that sounds
terrible, one thing I try to doevery day, actually, no, I tried
to spread love every day. Andthat's the God's honest truth.
Actually, I do. I try to, I tryto approach everything I do from
a place of love. That is the onething I try to do every day.

Definitely, I love it. When do you feel most
alive?

Um, actually, when I'm speaking, I'd have to,
if I was to be honest with you,on stage, speaking, sharing my
knowledge, uh, making change insomeone's life, having impact on
them. That is definitely when Ifeel the most alive. Like I feel
like

I could do this forever. Yeah, can you share a
professional experience that hada big impact on who you are
today?

Professional experience that has a big impact
on where I am today? That's ahard one for me, because I'm
I've been in entrepreneurism forso long. Yes, actually I can. I
guess I can, I can. I think oneof the biggest impacts
professionally that I've beenthrough is when I was in the
cleaning business and constantlyshowing up and never getting the

(48:12):
bigger, like million poundcontracts that I felt like I was
deserved. And that was a momentwhere I felt like I'm having my
own table. I'm not waiting onmen anymore?

Mm, hmm. Oh, definitely. Yeah, you've never
looked back. Oh, that

Unknown (48:26):
was a good question, though. That one,

what's your go to mantra when you're facing a
challenge?

My go to mantra, go to song actually, is
that allowed Sure. Sure. Soundsblack, sounds of blackness.
Optimistic, okay, that's a goodone. That's a good one. That's
my go to song. That's what we'lljust like. Let's do this now, as

(48:54):
long as you believe

what's the boldest risk you've ever taken?

Um, not paying all my bills and my
mortgage to invest in a businessthat I know I could probably,
probably possibly lose the roofover my head, because I believe
that this work. Don't, don't

turn out for you. How did that turn out for you?

Unknown (49:16):
How's that good? I'm still here, still got a house
and roof over my head, so butI'm not, not telling anybody to
take that

advice, right, right, right. Not clear. Last
one, how do you personallydefine success?

For me, I personally define success from
it's helping people. Success iswealth. Wealth for me, is not
money. It's about, you know,it's about having my health,
it's about making sure I've gotlegacy. It's about helping
people, and it's about beingremembered for something, um,
it's about standing forsomething. I think that's what

(49:53):
success to me. It means standingfor something, yeah, something
that's good and something that'sgreater than life itself. Hmm.
Well,

with your with your mission to empower 1000
plus women, you know, globally,you're definitely standing for
something. You're already doingit.

I'm trying, and that's all I can do. Yeah,
yeah. Well,

before we wrap up, I have one last question I'd
like to ask all my guests. Whatdo you like to do when you
aren't fearlessly leading?

Oh my gosh, I'm a huge foodie. Maybe two me
too high five. I love food and Ilove traveling, if I can go on a
break or go, those are my twothings. Some people love cars.
Some people have got theirbiases. For me, it's food and
traveling.

Okay, well, Natalia, thank you so much for
sharing your insights with ustoday. How can our listeners
stay connected with you?

Unknown (50:45):
Just check us out. womenindigitalbusiness.com make
sure you check out the website.Make sure you join our community
and make sure, if you want to,if you're a coach consultant, if
you've got things to offer toour community, we want you on
our next summit, which will beOctober now, but if you go onto
our website, all the details arethere. But more importantly,
just join our community. So it'swomen in digital business.com

(51:07):
and also our YouTube channelsgot loads of tutorials on there
if you're really serious aboutselling online and taking your
business to the next level. It'sall about learning how to set
online and building out funnels,but all the things that go with
that, but yes, simply come andjoin our community completely.
Then you'll see exactly whatwe're all about and what we
offer.

All right, so I'll make sure that the website
is linked in the show notesalong with the link to your
YouTube community. And you saidyou have a summit coming up in
October as well.

Yeah, so all the details will be on the
website. There'll be as soon asit goes live, a pop up box will
come up on the website. There'salso a page that says, Summit.
So yeah, please. Do you know,look in open an account. Have
join our free community.

Okay, well, Natalia, thank you so much for
sharing your journey with us andall the amazing things that
you've done. You talked aboutovercoming devastated losses to
being a successful entrepreneurin this the work that you're
doing to, you know, uplift blackwomen in the community. So thank
you for sharing all that withus. Oh,

thank you very much. And thank you for
having me. Sorry. I was lookingback in the camera, and we're
playing Jane today. So everyone,you've got the raw Natalia here

for that's what this space is for.

Brilliant. Thank you for having me, Angela,
yeah, that was nice. It was niceto I feel you've calmed my
spirit. I had having my um,sometimes you can forget. I
think as you get older and youlook, yeah, someone asks you all
these questions you you canforget. Sometimes you can forget
your achievements. It's veryeasily done, and you can forget
your experiences as well. Sothank you, wow.

My pleasure, my pleasure. And to our listeners,
I hope you found today's episodeinsightful and as a reminder,
episodes are released bi weeklyon Wednesdays, so make sure you
share this episode with someonein your network until next time,
take care. Hey, fearlessleaders. If you've been feeling
stuck in your life or career,I've opened up a few limited

(52:58):
spots for the get unstuckcoaching experience, a one week
intensive with an energyleadership index assessment, one
to one coaching and a customroad map. Email me at
angela@angelavharris.com tolearn more, or DM me unstuck on

(53:21):
LinkedIn. Thank you forlistening to the flow podcast as
we wrap up today's episode,always remember your unique
path, your voice and yourleadership matter. If you loved
what you heard. Subscribe now tostay updated on our latest

(53:43):
episodes. Take a moment to leavea review and share this episode
with someone who can benefitfrom these conversations. You
can stay connected with me onInstagram at the flow podcast
with Angela, or visit me on theweb at Angela V harris.com Until

(54:05):
next time, take care. Stayinspired and keep fearlessly
leading in your own way. You.

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