October 2, 2024 • 52 mins
In this episode, we sit down with Brittany Ward, the CEO and Founder of BW Cultivates. Brittany shares her journey as a first-generation college graduate, her struggles with self-doubt, and the immense pressure of meeting others' expectations while putting her own dreams on hold.
This episode is a raw and real conversation about overcoming imposter syndrome, the importance of psychological safety at work, and how doing the personal work is key to healing and growth. Brittany opens up about her personal experiences, from surviving trauma to embracing the power of choice in shaping her life and career.
Listen in as Brittany offers invaluable insights on:
- Breaking free from societal pressures and choosing yourself.
- The necessity of rest and why it’s not selfish to take time to recharge.
- Challenging negative thoughts and overcoming the myth of imposter syndrome.
- Psychological safety in the workplace and its effect on self-doubt and confidence.
Connect with Brittany: Website: www.bwcultivates.com
Instagram/TikTok/X: bwcultivates
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Angela Harris (00:00):
Music. Welcome to the flow podcast, fearlessly
(00:09):
leading our way. This podcast isa space dedicated to
spotlighting the unfilteredvoices of black women in their
unique leadership journeys. I amyour host, Angela V. Harris, I'm
an award winning coach, speaker,author and champion from black
(00:32):
women. Make sure you like andsubscribe to this podcast to
stay connected to ourconversation, let's get ready to
flow.
(00:56):
Hey everyone, welcome back tothe flow podcast. I am your
host, Angela V Harris, if you'rea regular listener, thank you
for being on this journey withus. Your support means
everything. And if you're newhere, welcome to the flow
family. On this episode, I'mthrilled to sit down with
(01:18):
Brittany Ward, the CEO andfounder of BW cultivates.
Brittany is an inspiring leaderwho's doing incredible work to
support black women. Brittany'sjourney is both relatable and
powerful that I know you'regoing to love hearing for her,
we dive into some deep andimportant topics, like
(01:39):
overcoming self doubt, battlingimposter syndrome, and what it
really takes to break throughthe mental barriers that hold us
back. Brittany also shares herpersonal story about the
pressures of being a firstgeneration college graduate and
how she learned to do the workto heal and grow, both
personally and professionally,one of my favorite parts of our
(02:04):
conversation was Brittany'swisdom on why it's so important
for us to challenge negativethinking and how we can choose
to show up better for ourselvesevery day, plus you'll also hear
her thoughts on psychologicalsafety at work and The
importance of rest in ourcommunity. So get ready from
some real talk and some seriousgems from Brittany. Welcome to
(02:30):
the show, Brittany. Hey, thank
Brittany Ward (02:33):
you for inviting me.
Angela Harris (02:35):
My pleasure. I'm so excited to have you here. And
first, let me just start bysaying I admire your journey and
all the work that you're doingto support black women.
Brittany Ward (02:46):
Thank you so much. It has certainly been a
journey, but I wouldn't have itany other way. Honestly, this is
something that I'm passionateabout. You know, I am a black
woman, and so I want to seeeverybody else win. So grateful
for you, considering me andthinking about me for this show,
Angela Harris (03:02):
absolutely, and I know we share a few parallels in
our story, because we're bothfirst generation college
graduates, and sadly, we bothlost our mothers at a young age
as well. Absolutely,
Brittany Ward (03:13):
yeah, it's there is something to be said about
how our life experiences shapeus, you know what I mean, and so
I know we definitely shared alot of similarities in how we've
moved and operated since then,so this is definitely close to
my heart to be sitting downhaving this conversation with
you today.
Angela Harris (03:33):
Yeah, well, I'm excited to dive in. And like you
said, so many parallels, so manysimilarities. So let's get
started. Can you start bysharing a bit more about your
early 20s and the challenges youface with self doubt and
insecurities. Oh,
Brittany Ward (03:49):
that's a good one. My early 20s and the
challenges I faced with selfdoubt and insecurities. You
know, for a long time, I dideverything that everybody told
me to do first generationcollege graduate, right? And so
my grandmother, my family, thosearound me that raised me, had
very high hopes for me and veryhigh expectations for me. And so
(04:14):
even in my early 20s, Istruggled. I struggled because
there was so much pressure on meto do and be everything for
everybody else, and I felt likeI actually had put a lot of my
dreams on the back burner. Andso some of the things that I
struggled with were even thingsas simple as my college major,
(04:37):
right? I double majored, andthat was never my intent. I went
down the path of psychologyright out the door, and I loved
it, but I backed away from itbecause I started thinking to
myself, well, what if I can'tprovide for my family? What if I
don't make enough money to makesure that my grandmother never
(04:58):
has to work again after. Or sheretires. Everybody's depending
on me. What if I don't live upto their expectations? Right? I
graduated in 2012 and so some ofthe things that also crossed my
mind were, what if I graduateschool and I can't find a job
like these were all the thingsthat I struggled with and I knew
(05:22):
without a doubt that I had it inme. I knew that I was strong,
capable, educated, I knew that Ihad been adequately equipped for
everything that was meant forme. But in my head, I still
struggled because of mybackground and my upbringing,
having been, you know, a victimof sexual abuse, having grown up
(05:44):
in household with domesticviolence, no matter how much
positivity was around me, therewas nothing in here that made me
believe that I was good enoughfor those things. I now see
things very differently. I havehad the opportunity to do the
work right, because the worknever stops. You're always
(06:05):
working on yourself. You'realways growing, you're always
developing. And so, you know, Ihad the opportunity to just take
some time to self assess and dosome self inquiry to figure out
where I really wanted to growand develop and incorporate that
into the way that I live my lifenow and the way that I show up
(06:26):
for others around me. But thejourney was rough, Rocky, bumpy.
It was all the things inbetween.
Angela Harris (06:34):
Yeah, well, thank you for sharing that that
definitely was a lot to endure.And what stood out to me, you
said you took the initiative todo the work. And I know
sometimes in our community, wetend to, you know, brush things
under the weather. Oh, I don'tneed any help. Nothing's wrong
with me. Let me pray it away orwhatever. So what motivated you
to actually do the
Brittany Ward (06:53):
work? First of all, you just, you just opened
something up. Because this is aconversation that I have all the
time in the context of just themental health stigma and the the
thinking around what it means toactually get help. You know,
(07:14):
there's so much out there,especially within the black
community, that attributesgetting help to being less than
in some way, right? Yeah, and weknow that's not true. We know
that our mothers and ourgrandmothers and our great
grandmothers pushed throughthings because they had to. We
don't have to push throughthings anymore, right? And so
(07:38):
you know when it comes to whatmotivated me? I say this with
all respect for my elders andthose who came before me, as
much as they did their very bestwith the circumstances they had
and with the resources they weregiven, I knew I didn't want to
(07:58):
live my life the way that theylive their lives. You know, my
grandmother, God rest her soul,made $750 every two weeks at a
job she worked at for 30 yearsand took care of for kids by
herself on that sometimes lessthan that, because her pay went
up over time. She even up untilher very last day she was
(08:24):
diagnosed with stage fourcancer. She never told any of us
how bad the cancer was, and shejust endured it by herself. And
so I remember just looking back,this was around the time I was
about 25 going on 26 justlooking back and thinking, I
don't want to shoulder thatburden that way, like God forbid
(08:46):
anything were to happen to me. Idon't want to hold all of that
in because I could only imaginewhat it was like knowing that
she was in her last days andhaving all these people around
her that she spent more timeworrying about than catering to
her own needs, catering to whatshe needed in those moments. And
(09:07):
so, you know, while my familyhas taught me a lot of good and
I love them, they've also shownme a lot of things that I want
to try to do better as I growand as I develop. So that was my
motivation. My motivation wasjust being bigger, better,
wiser. And I think I anchored onthat, because that was always
(09:29):
what my grandmother told me shewanted for me, like she raised
me. So her thing was always, Iwant you to do better than me. I
want you to exceed what I wascapable of do, of doing I want
you to rise above theexpectations that everybody else
sets for you. And while it alsowas the anchor in my motivation,
(09:55):
it also in some seasons of mylife caused me to spiral into
positive. Andrew, and so, youknow, there's all these things
that I think I have experiencedthat are probably not much
different than anyone else'sexperience. And I know there are
so many women that I've talkedto that have gone through some
(10:16):
things that look like what I'vegone through, but I think what
has been a deciding factor forme is choice, right? Because I
said the work is the work.You're always going to be doing
the work. It doesn't look thesame in every season, but part
of doing the work is choosing.It's choosing you want something
(10:37):
different. It's choosing to lookat yourself in the mirror and
work on hard things is choosingto acknowledge that there are
things about you that aren'thealthy and you want to do them
differently, and that's okay,right? The first step is
acknowledgement. And so I just Imade a choice that there were
(11:00):
things that I wanted to bedifferent, and if I wanted to
show up as a better version ofmyself, then I had to choose to
get help.
Angela Harris (11:08):
Yeah, yeah. I love what you say about, you
know, just wanting to be bigger,better and wise, and also just
kind of trying to, like, breaksome of the stigmas that we have
within our community, like youtalked about, you know,
shouldering that weight. Andoftentimes a lot of black women
are black people. We think it,we view it as a badge of honor,
because we're carrying thisweight, but we're also carrying,
(11:28):
like you said, generations ofweight, of weight on our
shoulders, and just because theydid it, we don't, we don't have
to do it. So I applaud you forrecognizing the choice in this,
in that situation, and takingthat initiative and the weight
was not good, because, like, atleast the stress, which can
cause cancer and other chronicillnesses within our community.
So we have to let that weight goand just look at it as a win,
(11:51):
that we're not failing, butwe're winning
Brittany Ward (11:53):
absolutely 100% you're spot on. You know, you
see all the things in socialmedia about having a soft life.
You know, I've seen thingsrecently black, black women's
day of rest, right? And I thinksometimes, because of our
generational trauma and theweight that we carry, and
(12:15):
especially when we're not aware,we don't even think that we
deserve those types of things,yeah, but there's a lot of
guilt. Yeah, I've seen
Angela Harris (12:24):
especially as it relates to rest. And I was like,
I'm guilty of this as well. SoI'm trying to be more mindful
that, you know, rest isrestorative, and that I am doing
something if I'm resting, Ishould not feel guilty. If I
just want to sit on the couchfor the weekend and watch TV, if
I want to go to the park andit's like, Look at the birds.
Don't worry myself by doing it
Brittany Ward (12:42):
absolutely girl, you are dropping gems for y'all
on the line you need to writedown. Rest is restorative. Okay?
That could not be more true, andthat was something that I had to
learn, like when we talk about,you know, just my experiences
and having the opportunity tobecome the woman that I am
today, and even having theopportunity to work with other
(13:03):
women, running yourself into theground does not help anybody.
Right? My from an empty cupabsolutely and so I've talked to
women that have said, I want torest, but I feel like if I rest,
I'm not being fair to my son ormy daughter, because I'm not
(13:26):
giving them the time that Icould be giving them. Or I want
to rest, but I feel like if Itake 30 minutes to rest, I'm not
showing up the way that I needto show up as a partner in my
relationship. Or I want to rest,but you know, I'm out here,
grinding, trying to, trying toget this business up and
running, and I feel like, if Irest, I'm not working hard, as
(13:46):
those who are as hard as thoserunning alongside me, right? And
so usually what I will ask themis, okay, what happens to your
body when you don't rest? And sothey'll run through all the
different things, right? I burnout, you know, I've gotten sick,
I've had flare ups, end up inthe hospital, you know, I break
(14:07):
down because I've given so muchtime to my children and left
nothing for myself. And so nowI'm feeling empty. And so then
I'll say, So then what's, what'sthe healthier alternative? And
then they'll say, rest. Okay, sowhat are you going to do? Right?
Because I said earlier,everything is about choice,
right? And so you when you havebeen programmed a certain way,
(14:30):
you have to do your best tooverride that programming.
That's what choice is. Yeah,choice doesn't mean you don't
get it it. Choice doesn't meanyou don't get it wrong. Choice
doesn't mean you don't have dayswhere you know you should rest
and you don't choices. I do mybest to conscientiously choose
myself, and every time I makethe decision and I choose
(14:53):
myself, I'm getting better atit. And so I chose myself today.
Okay, maybe I didn't do ittomorrow, but I did it again the
next. Say, Okay, great, I chosemyself twice this week. Oh, you
know, I really wanted to go tothe spa. I got some other things
I got to do, but imma move thosearound. Imma choose myself this
time. Choice is intentional.Yes, right. And so to the extent
(15:13):
that we can show up forourselves and be intentional for
ourselves, we can show up betterfor those around us
Angela Harris (15:22):
absolutely, and like you said, it's also about
giving ourselves grace to, likeyou said, we might not get it
right the first time, but it's,you know, consistency and small
changes over time,
Brittany Ward (15:33):
absolutely 100% that is what it comes down to,
right? It comes down tocontinuously striving. And I, I
used to hate those words atwork, because it was like, Oh,
you're always running towardssomething. You're always trying
to get to the next thing. But Ithink it's okay to continuously
strive to be a better version ofyourself if you feel like you're
(15:55):
getting the results that youwant to see. You know what I
mean? And so, yeah,
Angela Harris (16:00):
just be better than you were yesterday,
Brittany Ward (16:02):
absolutely 100%
Angela Harris (16:06):
well. Heard you mentioned that you struggle with
imposter syndrome, and I know alot of black women struggle with
self doubt. So what words ofadvice do you have for those
currently dealing with thosechallenges? I Hmm,
Brittany Ward (16:23):
there's so much that I could say in that space
that I'm just I'm sitting hereand I'm reflecting, because we
often think that what westruggle with when it comes to
imposter syndrome and self doubtis just here. We think we're
just battling this, but we'rebattling so much more than that.
(16:47):
You talked about generationaltraumas, right? Generational
experiences. Imposter syndromeis something that is compounded
by everything you see around youfrom the day you are born as a
woman, society is telling youthat you are second class in
(17:09):
some countries versus others.That is more of a reality than
what we see here, living in theUnited States, and so everything
around you is telling you thatyou're not good enough.
Everything around you is tellingyou you know you don't have the
skills. Everything around you istelling you you're not worthy of
(17:30):
that. And so when it comes to myexperience with imposter
syndrome, I'm gonna be honestwith you, I've fought like hell
to override it as best I can.And so you know, for me, what
has helped me is challenging myown thinking. And so when I talk
about challenging my ownthinking, things like, Okay,
(17:53):
this job opportunity is on thetable, right? You have the
skills to apply for the jobyou're capable, but maybe they
won't see you as capable, right?That? Those are the things that
go through my head, or maybethat level is too high for you.
I know I got it, but these arethe things that counter that.
And so one of the things thatI'll ask myself is, well, why do
(18:18):
you believe that? What evidencedo you have of that. What
evidence do you have in yourlife that says that you aren't
ready for that job? Right? I golook back at my resume. Well, my
resume has this I got thisexperience and I got these
skills. I don't really have anyevidence that suggests that,
(18:42):
yeah, I'm not capable ofapplying for that job. So why am
I really questioning whether ornot I'm capable of applying for
that job? And so it's one ofthese things that my therapist
taught me, which is justchallenging everything, asking
yourself, do you have evidence?Oh, you know you're incapable of
showing up this way. Okay. Whatevidence do you have that
(19:04):
suggests that that's the case?Challenging my thinking and
challenging my mindset has beencrucial in helping me overcome
imposter syndrome, and itdoesn't mean I don't still deal
with it. I still have momentsevery single day where I'm
questioning whether or not I amgood enough, questioning whether
or not I am capable enough. ButI think the key is to figure out
(19:26):
and understand how to manage it.And so small thing that you can
do is just ask yourself, whatevidence do you have? Those
thoughts start to creep in,because most of imposter
syndrome is dealing withnegative thinking, right? And so
when those thoughts start tocreep in, ask yourself, what
evidence do I have? If you needto get a piece of paper and
start writing it down, whatevidence do you have? And if you
can't come up with evidence,chances are that negative
(19:48):
thought is something that youare creating in your head and
not a real thing. Yeah, yeah. I
Angela Harris (19:53):
like that. I like how you, you know, like you
said, you challenge yourselfwith the negative thoughts to
kind of, you know, reframe it.And I'm just thinking back. To a
situation recently. I wasapplying for, like, a RFP, and I
was like, looking at the, youknow, the requirements, and I'm
like, Hmm, not really sure. Butthen, you know, I paused myself
in that moment. You know what?You do have this and here's how,
like, the way it was work. I seeI had it, but I had to reframe
(20:17):
the way I was looking at it. AndI feel like, when you look at
black women in general,especially in corporate America,
there's data that says we're themost educated demographic. So
you know, we always we alreadyhave to over perform to get the
job. So how are we imposters ifwe're already over educated and
underpaid and under level forthe work that we are doing
(20:40):
absolutely 100%
Brittany Ward (20:43):
right? It's it's putting yourself in a position
where you start to look at thosethings. I think the majority of
small business owners right noware black women, and so when you
start to look at those thingsaround you, it really forces you
to question yourself where thethought is coming from. You know
what I mean? If you don't haveany evidence to back it up, then
(21:04):
you almost can't even hold on toit anymore, because everything
that you have written down, oreverything that you have started
thinking about to combat thatsays the opposite, you know what
I mean. And so it it is noteasy. It doesn't come overnight,
like it is something that I havehad to work at, and I
(21:24):
continuously work at, but, youknow, in terms of strategies for
me personally, that's theeasiest one. Is just asking
myself, do I have evidence?
Angela Harris (21:36):
And I would just say, you know, do it anyway,
even if you don't think you haveall the qualifications apply
anyway, because there's datathat says men will meet what was
it like 60% of the requirementsand apply for women, we have to
do like 90 to 100 before we evenapply, but the man who isn't
even qualified is going to applyand get the job, so do it
anyway.
Brittany Ward (21:56):
This is literally what I tell women. I say men
don't question themselves.
Angela Harris (22:02):
They don't know, but they'll, they'll, they don't
know, but they'll do it
Brittany Ward (22:06):
anyway. Do it anyway, and they'll get the job,
and then absolutely the role.Have no idea what they're
talking about. Sitting room nextto you, piggyback off of what
you're saying, repeat it, andlook like they know something.
And so that's probably
Angela Harris (22:20):
what imposter syndrome comes in, because it's
like we are checking all theboxes, but then we're working
for people that don't have thelevel of or skills or
qualifications that we do, andthey're the ones demeaning us
absolutely for that self doubt.And the imposter syndrome
probably comes from not from ourlack of ability, because of the
lack of ability of the peoplethat are managing us absolutely
(22:41):
in
Brittany Ward (22:41):
some cases. I do believe that to be the case.
Right when you look around youand you see people who are less
experienced than you at higherlevels than you, it almost makes
you question like, well, what amI doing wrong? You know what I
mean,
Angela Harris (23:01):
corporate career right there. Yes. How
Brittany Ward (23:03):
is it that, you know, Joe Schmo, is this
Angela Harris (23:09):
high school diploma?
Brittany Ward (23:11):
Yes, is this VP, right? Yes,
Angela Harris (23:15):
you can't even get a manager job. Yes, yes,
Brittany Ward (23:18):
it's making this money, and I'm sitting here
listening to him like, What areyou even talking about? But you
are hitting on why it's soimportant for us to override
that and apply anyway. Becauseif Joe Schmo can get the job
with half, sometimes less thanhalf, of the experience that you
(23:39):
have, why are you any lesscapable? Yes, you know what I
mean. And so, um, cool girl. Allthe gems, this is a good
conversation, right?
Angela Harris (23:50):
And so, as we were kind of like diving into
that, it reminded me ofsomething that I saw on
Pinterest recently, so I had topull it out. So that's gonna,
let's want to read it reallyquickly. And it says imposter
syndrome is a myth love, it's amyth that makes you believe you
need to fix yourself in order tofeel worthy. But you're not
suffering from a syndrome love.You're suffering from systems
(24:12):
that were consciously created tomake you feel unworthy. You are
not what needs fixing. You neverwere. And I feel like that's the
best description of impostersyndrome that I've ever
Brittany Ward (24:23):
heard. Absolutely. I mean that it
alludes to where I was going towhen I started talking about
just the societal factors thathave been built around us to
keep us down as women. And ifyou compound that, black women,
right? Because looking at thingslike, Oh, I go into all types of
(24:44):
things when we start talkingabout, you know, the Jim Crow
era and how that has createdinstitutional racism that we
still deal with today, all ofthe systems around us have been
built to put us in a positionwhere we believe. Believe we're
not good enough, and so, youknow, this is why I say you have
to consistently challenge it.Because when you are
(25:08):
challenging, you're not justchallenging this, you're
challenging all the systemsaround you that are influencing
this. So it is such a it is justsuch an intricately webbed
problem, right? When you look atjust all the things around us,
(25:33):
even just the stuff that we'regoing through right now, when it
comes to the presidentialelection, right, like it's such
an intricately webbed problemthat you do have to
conscientiously work hard toundo all of the stuff that comes
up in here. Because one of thethings that I tell women is it's
not always yours to carry and sowalk around with these things
(25:57):
that are coming from our moms,our moms, moms, the institutions
around us, you know, all of thethings, and we fight them on a
day to day, we we struggle withthem on a day to day, we work to
get over them on a day to day.And they're not even ours to
carry. Yes and so girl who, oh,goodness, well, that's actually
(26:24):
a
Angela Harris (26:26):
good segment, because I didn't want to touch
on psychological safety. I knowthat's a big buzzword in the
workplace, and for the listenerswho are not familiar with the
term, essentially, psychologicalsafety refers to where
individuals feel safe to expresstheir thoughts without being
punished in the workplace. And Isaw a report recently that says
(26:47):
66% of black women report notfeeling emotionally safe at
work. Not no surprise,
Brittany Ward (26:52):
yeah, not surprising at all. So, Brittany,
I'm
Angela Harris (26:55):
I want to hear your thoughts like, how do you
how does psychological safetycorrelate with self doubt when,
when it pertains to black women,
Brittany Ward (27:03):
I think it compounds it, right? And so I
can only speak from myexperience, right? So part of
the reason why I have been ableto be my best at work and I have
been able to show upunapologetically is because I've
had leaders around me who haveenabled that in me, right? So
(27:25):
I've had a lot of black andbrown female leaders who have
pulled me up, who have correctedme, who have allowed me to feel
safe showing up at work withdifferent hairstyles on
different days, without, youknow, being like, Oh, your hair
is different all the time. Like,you know, it changed today. It's
just like, oh, girl, your hairlooks cute, right? I have been
(27:48):
in rooms with women, and some ofthem not black, have been in
rooms with women who justallowed me to be right, and
because they simply allowed meto be whatever that needed to
look like for me, whatever thatneeded to look like on that day
in that season of my career,because I've had that I have
(28:13):
been unapologetic about showingup for myself the types of roles
I will take how I navigate mycareer, but it took somebody
showing me that I could do thatin order for me to do that
right. And so when it comes topsychological safety, when you
(28:34):
feel like your job is alreadyhard enough to do, you're
already carrying around thesebeliefs that come from these
other places, and then you getinto an environment that's not
psychologically safe. It'sreinforcing all the things that
you may already be strugglingwith. And if you're not coming
(28:54):
in the door with something,which is pretty much everybody
coming in the door withsomething right now, you're in
this position where you feellike your voice isn't heard, you
feel like you don't have a seatat the table. You feel like you
have to work twice as hard, andeven then, when you work twice
(29:17):
as hard is still not goodenough. You're gonna have to
stay
Angela Harris (29:21):
out real quick. He's like, Yeah, you're talking
about my corporate career here.
Brittany Ward (29:26):
Girl, I'm telling you, but these are the things
that I hear, right? Or you'rebeing piled on. They're giving
you more work than they'regiving everybody else. And now
you feel like you you can't saythis is too much, because if you
say it's too much, they gonnalook at you like, well, you
should just be able to handle itright. And so when you don't
(29:49):
have a psychologically safeenvironment, you act based on
what you're getting. You workthe late hours, even though
that, even though you areoverwhelmed. I'm overburdened,
but because you don't wantnobody else to think you can't
do it, right,
Angela Harris (30:06):
that'll show up in your review. One right, 100%
Brittany Ward (30:11):
right. To your point, if I don't do it, is it
going to end up showing up in myperformance? Right? You miss the
family outings, and you know theevents that you want to go to,
because I don't want to beviewed as not being a team
player when they have, you know,these after work events and when
they have these happy hours andthings like that. And so just
(30:34):
like people naturally respondand react from a place of
trauma, it's no different whenit comes to having a
psychologically safe environmentor not having a psychologically
safe environment, right? If youdon't feel psychologically safe,
I'm not going to talk to mymanager. I'm not going to tell
them what's going on with me,because they're not going
Angela Harris (30:54):
to be able to some, some way to kind of ding
you. So again, like, why wouldyou feel comfortable speaking
up?
Brittany Ward (31:00):
Absolutely 100% and so, you know, for me, it all
comes down to when you don'thave a psychologically safe
environment. That environmentreinforces things that you may
already believe and or feel, andit changes how you behave,
behave and react accordingly.Oh, I don't think I'll be able
(31:22):
to have this opportunity,because my manager won't allow
me to go up for it, or mymanager won't support me in it.
Okay, so I'm not gonna putmyself in for it anyway. I know
that thing that they're tryingto do on that project is wrong,
but nobody listens to me. So ifI say it's wrong, they're just
going to tune me out. I'm notgoing to tell them, it
(31:44):
influences the way that youbehave, and I think that is why
people leaders. And I can saythis because I am a people
leader, and I deal with thisevery day with my own teams. It
is so important for us to get toknow our people, to understand
what makes them tick in apositive way, but also
understand what makes themstruggle in a negative way.
(32:06):
Right? Who you are at home iswho you bring to work, and so if
you are struggling in yourmarriage at home, it's going to
impact how you show up at work.I can either be attuned to that
and build a relationship withyou so that when you're
struggling, you're tell me and Ican help you, you know, respond
and react accordingly when itcomes to your work, or I can see
(32:28):
you struggling and just pilemore on you. Right? Knowing your
people is so important, and sowhat I strive to do, I strive to
I can tell you every singleperson on my team's name. I can
tell you their husband's name,their wife's name, their kid's
name, I can tell you what theydo on the weekends. I can tell
you when they're going onvacation. I can tell you the
things that they struggle withon a day to day basis, things
(32:52):
like perfectionism, things likepeople pleasing, like we have
these conversations and we talkabout these things. And so I
think just because of the factthat not having psychological
safety compounds self doubt andit compounds the way that people
behave and react, it is yourresponsibility as a people
leader to understand your teamand to help them navigate
(33:14):
through that, because they can'tleave that on the table when
they come into the office. Justbecause they're in the office,
it doesn't work that
Angela Harris (33:20):
way. Mm, hmm, yeah. Thinking back to what you
said about first of all,connecting one on one with the
people on your team. When I lookback at my career, I can
probably name one manager.Seriously, one manager. Remember
the first day I joined her team?She said, You know, I kind of
know you from the interviewprocess, but I want to get to
(33:42):
know you on a personal level.And she was like the only
manager in my entire career thatever said that to me, and I feel
like she was the also the onlymanager that truly appreciated
some of the external activitiesthat I was involved in, outside
of working on actually recognizethat as leadership skills,
Brittany Ward (34:03):
absolutely. I mean, it is, it is a sad reality
that so many people managersdon't have people management
skills, right? And that stemsfrom really just not having good
people skills if we want to be
Angela Harris (34:22):
so managed to get promoted, whereas we can't get
promoted. But the people withthe bad skills are the ones that
get promoted. And
Brittany Ward (34:30):
I've seen it. I have seen people with the worst
engage survey scores, orengagement survey scores, worst
leadership scores, that keepgetting promoted, and it's
because it's not what they knowis who they know, right? Yes, so
you know it is girl that canopen up a door for a whole
different thing aroundsponsorship and black women that
(34:53):
we just we not even go
Angela Harris (34:54):
back up sponsorship. We're over mentored
and under sponsored. That'sunder sponsored, that. It. I had
a conversation with a former VPof HR, and he was sharing a
story with me about how he had atoxic employee on his team, and
he was getting, you know,negative feedback about this
employee. He addressed it withthat employee. The behavior
didn't change, and so heactually noted in the employee's
(35:17):
review that this person shouldno longer be allowed to be a
people leader. He said at onepoint that person eventually
made it to the shortlist to beCEO of the company. They weren't
they. They didn't make the finalcut, but they were on the
shortlist to be CEO of thecompany. But this VP of HR
essentially said that leadershipwill turn their eye because
(35:39):
results Trump toxicity. Theywill allow the toxic behavior to
continue as long as that thatleader or that person is
delivering results.
Brittany Ward (35:49):
Listen, I will say this. I have seen it and I
have heard it. I haven't hadmany of those experiences
myself, because I've just beenblessed to again be in spaces
and places where I've had goodleaders, I've had people
advocate for me, but I thinkthat in companies where the
culture itself is toxic, youwill see that, and it will be a
(36:13):
continuing cycle. And so, youknow, for me, what I tend to
focus on with women is therecomes a point again where you
have to make a choice, right? Ithink that just due to our
nature and who we are, we alwayswant to we want to tough it out.
We want to stick it out. We wantto navigate
Angela Harris (36:34):
it. Why not that we have to change that
Brittany Ward (36:37):
we don't owe them nothing. No, they had to let you
go tomorrow. Yes,
Angela Harris (36:43):
they would not be. We gotta. We gotta stick it
out for Brittany. No, no, no,they would not think twice,
Brittany Ward (36:48):
absolutely, right? They would make the
decision that they needed tomake for their company, because
that's business,
Angela Harris (36:54):
and we've seen that with the past two years,
with all the mass layoffs,specifically in the tech
industry, where black, black andbrown people have been impacted
at higher rates, absolutely,
Brittany Ward (37:04):
100% and so I say this, they're making those
decisions for their business.You have skills, you have
experience, you have expertise.You are your business, right?
What you bring to the table isyour business. You're entering
into a contract with thatcompany, you know, I'll be it,
(37:27):
you know, not a physicalcontract, but an intellectual
contract, right? And so, justlike they can easily make the
decision to let you go, you needto be able to look at them the
same way, this whole concept, Iswear, I this is one of the
things I struggle with, justbecause I was told very early
on, like, don't get attached toany person, place or thing. And
(37:49):
so this concept of loyalty to acompany, what's that? I don't
know what that is, because Iknow that they're going to make
the decisions that they need tomake, and so I'm going to make
the decisions that I need tomake for me. And I feel like
anybody who's listening, who isin this position make the
(38:11):
decision that you need to makefor you. You are your business
at the end of the day. If youare not being treated the way
you feel you need to be treated,move on. If you wouldn't stay
with a man who was mistreatingyou, why would you stay at a
company that was mistreatingyou? If you wouldn't stay in a
friendship where there was noeffort being given, why would
(38:35):
you stay at a company that isnot taking the initiative to
develop you, to grow you, topromote you, to retain you.
Right, move on.
Angela Harris (38:48):
Like that Fantasia song. Go ahead and free
yourself.
Brittany Ward (38:52):
That's a good song. I really like that song. I
didn't even when you brought itup, I was like, Oh, that's a
good one. That was a good one tothrow it. Sorry.
Angela Harris (39:01):
So when I was, you know, I guess like when I
realized it was time for me to,you know, move on and exit
corporate America. That'sactually one of the songs I used
to listen to, how this littlethree song playlist, it was free
yourself. I want to say, let itgo. I think Keisha Cole, let it
go. Okay. It was a Vivian greensong, gotta go. Gotta leave.
I've listened to those threesongs like every morning, give
(39:23):
you your motivation. Yes, I hadto come with a playlist.
Brittany Ward (39:29):
Listen. Y'all got the playlist. So when you need
to get through your decisions,you need to run those three
songs back. Let it help you.
Angela Harris (39:39):
I want to talk. So keep it in line with that,
you know, you know, moving on.So let's talk about the concept
of starting before you're ready.Because oftentimes we suffer
with that perfectionism, youknow, we think, we think we have
to have all the boxes checkedbefore we move over. But what we
don't realize is thatperfectionism, or that fear is
is like, is holding us back, andit's, in some ways, it's
paralyzing. Yeah, so how canfolks explore that and really
(40:04):
get to their true purpose?
Brittany Ward (40:07):
Hmm, how can folks explore what's holding
them back? So it's a question,how can folks move beyond what
is holding them back to get totheir true purpose.
Angela Harris (40:24):
Well, I guess, how can folks be become more
comfortable starting beforethey're ready, instead of
thinking like, Okay, I gottahave, like, all the
qualifications for the jobbefore I apply. Or maybe I gotta
before I start the business. Ineed this certification or this
training. I need this. I needthat. You know, you would still
get the 10 certifications andstill not start the business.
(40:47):
Well, my question
Brittany Ward (40:48):
would also be, what does it mean to be ready?
Angela Harris (40:51):
Yeah, right, right. So,
Brittany Ward (40:54):
when are you ever really ready? Exactly. Um, and
so, you know, for me, at somepoint you just gotta do it
right. And so there is no I wishI could say that there was a I
(41:15):
wish I could say there was aframework. I wish I could say
there was an approach. I wish Icould say there was something
special about starting beforeyou're ready, but there isn't.
There's one thing, belief inyourself. Yes, if you don't
believe that, you can figure itout, even if you don't have
(41:41):
everything that you need tonavigate it, you'll never do it.
And so again, I speak from mypersonal place of experience.
I've never had a problem. Had aproblem applying for roles that
were more senior than where Ifelt I should be, or where
(42:03):
somebody else felt I should be,but I've always believed I would
figure it out,
Angela Harris (42:09):
and was it everything is figure it out
able? Yes, I've always
Brittany Ward (42:13):
believed I would figure it out because I am so
confident in my skills and whatI bring to the table. If you
don't think I deserve, somebodyelse will think I deserve. If
you won't give me, somebody elsewill
Angela Harris (42:31):
find that one person that that's gonna give me
that yes, but there's somebodyout there that's gonna say yes,
absolutely.
Brittany Ward (42:38):
And so you know again, it goes back to what I
said about treating yourselflike a business, right? There's
not one company in the worldthat anybody could work for that
has the types of roles we wantto see, right? There's so many
different companies out there.There's only one me, right? And
(43:00):
so at some point, you've gottabelieve in yourself and the what
is blocking that is specific toeach individual. So you have to
figure out what it is that'sblocking that belief in
yourself, and you've got tofigure out how you navigate and
(43:22):
move past that. You know what Imean? Because if you don't
figure out what that thing is,it's not just the belief in
yourself that's stopping youfrom going after it. You lack
belief in yourself because ofsomething else, because you went
after it before and you didn'tget it, or because that manager
told you you would never amountto anything, or because when you
(43:44):
were growing up, you know, youwere always picked last. There's
always something behind the lackof belief. And so if you can
figure that out, and you cannavigate that, you can work on
changing that core belief aboutwhether or not you're capable,
and it'll change how you thinkabout getting started. You know,
before you're ready for me, Ioperate in the context that
(44:06):
there's no such thing as ready.You're never ready for anything.
You're never ready to graduatehigh school and go to college.
You're never ready to graduatecollege and go into the real
world. You're never ready forhaving kids. No matter how much
you prepare, there's a bunch ofstuff you don't know. You have
no idea what it's like to bemarried until you get married.
You don't know what the rolelooks like. I don't care. No
(44:27):
matter what they tell you onpaper that role is going to be
you don't know what it's goingto look like until you step into
it. And they could have boldface lied to you. And so what do
you have to lose?
Angela Harris (44:38):
Yeah, what do you have to lose? Like you said at
the beginning, you just have todo the work.
Brittany Ward (44:43):
Yeah, absolutely. What do you have to lose if
you're going to bet on anything,bet on yourself. I
Angela Harris (44:49):
say the same thing. I say the same thing.
Wow. Well, Brittany, before we.Wrap up, I have one final
question for you. I know wetalked about rest at the
beginning, so what do you do torecharge when you aren't
fearlessly leading nothing
Brittany Ward (45:11):
that if I know that sounds crazy, but
literally, I do nothing likeI'll get on the couch. I'll put
on mindless TV. I don't turn myphone off, I don't take calls, I
will try to make sure that I putmy laptop to the side, not
opening that, not responding toemails. Like rest is rest for a
(45:33):
reason, and so for mepersonally, rest looks different
for different people, if I amlaying on my couch with my
computer, or if I'm laying on mycouch with my phone, or if I'm
laying on my couch, Doom,scrolling through tick, that's
not rest. And so for me, whenI'm intentional about taking
rest, I do nothing. I lay on thecouch with my blanket, make sure
(45:56):
I got my ceiling fan on, lightsome candles, maybe crack the
window a little bit. I'll put ona movie and I'll just sit
whatever it is that I need to doto feel like my body is
recharging. I will do that now.As of late, there are some other
things that I have been gettinginto, like breath work. I really
like that. That's really goodfor you to just release tension
(46:19):
and trauma in your body. And Ihave a lot of tension in my
body. You know, trauma lives inthe nervous system, so even if
you feel like you've worked onit, it's probably still there.
Breath work for me has beenphenomenal. Some folks do
meditation. I'm not too, tooheavy into that, but working out
is another thing that sometimesI will do just to kind of
(46:42):
rejuvenate, it's probably like,What do you mean? Working out
like you're working your body,yeah, but I'm working off the
stress, and
Angela Harris (46:49):
so releasing the tension that's in the vibe,
Brittany Ward (46:53):
anything that releases tension, relieves
stress, that allows me to feellike I'm not anxious. I'm not
running towards anything. I amgrounded, centered, resourced in
my window of tolerance. That'swhat I want to do. And so for
(47:15):
me, that's blanket in the couchmost of the time.
Angela Harris (47:19):
But I love how you say you are intentional
about, you know, turning offyour cell phone or turning off
your laptop. Because even thoughwe might be on the couch
watching TV, if we're stillscrolling our phone, we're still
kind of stimulated by that 100%
Brittany Ward (47:35):
hands down, you're absolutely stimulated by
it, like I've had days whereI've been on Tiktok, Doom
scrolling and not realizing howlong I've been Doom scrolling
like just, you know, laughing atvideos or things that I find
funny, and then I'm just all ofa sudden tired, because even
though I'm not moving mentally,I'm exhausted from taking in all
(47:56):
of this information. And so, youknow, again, everybody's bodies
respond differently, so you haveto decide what it is that works
for you. But for me, just havingthe opportunity to just be and
just settle like anything thatfeels like my body is settled is
(48:17):
I'm like, Okay, let's let's goat it. Let's do it like so
that's what I do to relax. Youknow, self care and all that
stuff works, but what I havefound lately is even the things
that I do for self care take toomuch out of me to feel like I
rest. So a good example of thatis I love getting my nails and
my feet done. In fact, I'm duefor a nail appointment this week
because these things need to bedone. But that's not relaxation
(48:42):
for me anymore. Because, youknow, you get in the chair and
the nail tech wants to talk oryou're dealing with everybody
chatting it up and talkingaround you. And so like, I find
that when I want to target truerelaxation, being in a place
that's quiet or that's tempered,being in a place that feels
comfortable for me, whetherthat's on this couch or the one
(49:03):
upstairs, being in a place whereI don't feel like I have to
react and respond to anything,that's what relaxation looks
like for me. Nice. How aboutyou? What does relaxation and
rest look like for you? It's
Angela Harris (49:18):
a combination. So I like you. I do like my get on
the couch with a blanket, youknow, the mindless TV. But what
I'm finding lately, actually, acouple of weeks ago, I had the
opportunity to visit a WellnessCenter in New York, and going
in, I kind of had like, allthese things in my mind that I
was going to plan to do while Iwas there. But honestly, they
have a very nice lake on theproperty, so I spent so much
(49:40):
time just sitting in a chair,looking at the lake, looking at
the trees, you know, observingwhatever was around me, that's
so I'm finding myself. I enjoynow just spending time in
nature.
Brittany Ward (49:52):
So I was going to say that it's funny I do hike. I
don't do it as much out here,because I live in Dallas and so.
Kind of flat. There's not a lotof elevation, but right outside
the front of my house is a bodyof water. So sometimes I'll just
sit in here and look out thewindow. I don't go sit outside
too too much right now, becauseit's hot summers and Dallas are
(50:14):
a little rough, but like beingnear bodies of water, being in
the woods, like just being outin nature also settles me, yes,
and so, yeah, I know that whenit comes to the nature part, I
need to intentionally do more,because I miss it. I miss it so
(50:34):
much like the last time I hikedwas probably, I want to say,
maybe six months to a year aftermoving here and I've been here
three years. Oh, wow. So you,you just, you just gave me
something to take away with me.Go hike.
Angela Harris (50:52):
I'll be following up with you.
Brittany Ward (50:54):
Yes, please do
Angela Harris (50:57):
well. Brittany, thank you so much for joining us
today. How can our listeners getin touch with you and follow
your work?
Brittany Ward (51:04):
Yeah, absolutely. If you want to stay in touch
with me and all things that aregoing on, you can follow me on
Instagram, Tiktok X formallyTwitter, at BWcultivates, and if
you want to just stay abreast ofnew programs, workshops, things
that are going to be coming downthe pipeline. You can check out
the website,www.bwcultivates.com sign up for
(51:29):
our email list and stay in touchwith us so we can let you know
what's coming down the pipeline.
Angela Harris (51:34):
That's great. Now make sure I include all that
information in the show notesfor our listeners. Yes, please
do and to our listeners today,thank you for tuning in to the
flow podcast. As a reminder, newepisodes are released bi weekly
on Wednesdays, and the podcastis available on all major
podcast platforms until nexttime, take care. You.
(51:57):
Music. Thank you for listeningto the flow podcast. As we wrap
up today's episode, alwaysremember your unique path, your
voice and your leadershipmatter. If you loved what you
(52:19):
heard, subscribe now to stayupdated on our latest episodes.
Take a moment to leave a reviewand share this episode with
someone who can benefit fromthese conversations. You can
stay connected with me onInstagram at
@theflowpodcastwithangela, orvisit me on the web at
(52:41):
angelavharris.com, until nexttime, take care, stay inspired
and keep fearlessly leading inyour own way.
Unknown (52:58):
You.
Music. Welcome to the flow podcast, fearlessly
(00:09):
leading our way. This podcast isa space dedicated to
spotlighting the unfilteredvoices of black women in their
unique leadership journeys. I amyour host, Angela V. Harris, I'm
an award winning coach, speaker,author and champion from black
(00:32):
women. Make sure you like andsubscribe to this podcast to
stay connected to ourconversation, let's get ready to
flow.
(00:56):
Hey everyone, welcome back tothe flow podcast. I am your
host, Angela V Harris, if you'rea regular listener, thank you
for being on this journey withus. Your support means
everything. And if you're newhere, welcome to the flow
family. On this episode, I'mthrilled to sit down with
(01:18):
Brittany Ward, the CEO andfounder of BW cultivates.
Brittany is an inspiring leaderwho's doing incredible work to
support black women. Brittany'sjourney is both relatable and
powerful that I know you'regoing to love hearing for her,
we dive into some deep andimportant topics, like
(01:39):
overcoming self doubt, battlingimposter syndrome, and what it
really takes to break throughthe mental barriers that hold us
back. Brittany also shares herpersonal story about the
pressures of being a firstgeneration college graduate and
how she learned to do the workto heal and grow, both
personally and professionally,one of my favorite parts of our
(02:04):
conversation was Brittany'swisdom on why it's so important
for us to challenge negativethinking and how we can choose
to show up better for ourselvesevery day, plus you'll also hear
her thoughts on psychologicalsafety at work and The
importance of rest in ourcommunity. So get ready from
some real talk and some seriousgems from Brittany. Welcome to
(02:30):
the show, Brittany. Hey, thank
Brittany Ward (02:33):
you for inviting me.
Angela Harris (02:35):
My pleasure. I'm so excited to have you here. And
first, let me just start bysaying I admire your journey and
all the work that you're doingto support black women.
Brittany Ward (02:46):
Thank you so much. It has certainly been a
journey, but I wouldn't have itany other way. Honestly, this is
something that I'm passionateabout. You know, I am a black
woman, and so I want to seeeverybody else win. So grateful
for you, considering me andthinking about me for this show,
Angela Harris (03:02):
absolutely, and I know we share a few parallels in
our story, because we're bothfirst generation college
graduates, and sadly, we bothlost our mothers at a young age
as well. Absolutely,
Brittany Ward (03:13):
yeah, it's there is something to be said about
how our life experiences shapeus, you know what I mean, and so
I know we definitely shared alot of similarities in how we've
moved and operated since then,so this is definitely close to
my heart to be sitting downhaving this conversation with
you today.
Angela Harris (03:33):
Yeah, well, I'm excited to dive in. And like you
said, so many parallels, so manysimilarities. So let's get
started. Can you start bysharing a bit more about your
early 20s and the challenges youface with self doubt and
insecurities. Oh,
Brittany Ward (03:49):
that's a good one. My early 20s and the
challenges I faced with selfdoubt and insecurities. You
know, for a long time, I dideverything that everybody told
me to do first generationcollege graduate, right? And so
my grandmother, my family, thosearound me that raised me, had
very high hopes for me and veryhigh expectations for me. And so
(04:14):
even in my early 20s, Istruggled. I struggled because
there was so much pressure on meto do and be everything for
everybody else, and I felt likeI actually had put a lot of my
dreams on the back burner. Andso some of the things that I
struggled with were even thingsas simple as my college major,
(04:37):
right? I double majored, andthat was never my intent. I went
down the path of psychologyright out the door, and I loved
it, but I backed away from itbecause I started thinking to
myself, well, what if I can'tprovide for my family? What if I
don't make enough money to makesure that my grandmother never
(04:58):
has to work again after. Or sheretires. Everybody's depending
on me. What if I don't live upto their expectations? Right? I
graduated in 2012 and so some ofthe things that also crossed my
mind were, what if I graduateschool and I can't find a job
like these were all the thingsthat I struggled with and I knew
(05:22):
without a doubt that I had it inme. I knew that I was strong,
capable, educated, I knew that Ihad been adequately equipped for
everything that was meant forme. But in my head, I still
struggled because of mybackground and my upbringing,
having been, you know, a victimof sexual abuse, having grown up
(05:44):
in household with domesticviolence, no matter how much
positivity was around me, therewas nothing in here that made me
believe that I was good enoughfor those things. I now see
things very differently. I havehad the opportunity to do the
work right, because the worknever stops. You're always
(06:05):
working on yourself. You'realways growing, you're always
developing. And so, you know, Ihad the opportunity to just take
some time to self assess and dosome self inquiry to figure out
where I really wanted to growand develop and incorporate that
into the way that I live my lifenow and the way that I show up
(06:26):
for others around me. But thejourney was rough, Rocky, bumpy.
It was all the things inbetween.
Angela Harris (06:34):
Yeah, well, thank you for sharing that that
definitely was a lot to endure.And what stood out to me, you
said you took the initiative todo the work. And I know
sometimes in our community, wetend to, you know, brush things
under the weather. Oh, I don'tneed any help. Nothing's wrong
with me. Let me pray it away orwhatever. So what motivated you
to actually do the
Brittany Ward (06:53):
work? First of all, you just, you just opened
something up. Because this is aconversation that I have all the
time in the context of just themental health stigma and the the
thinking around what it means toactually get help. You know,
(07:14):
there's so much out there,especially within the black
community, that attributesgetting help to being less than
in some way, right? Yeah, and weknow that's not true. We know
that our mothers and ourgrandmothers and our great
grandmothers pushed throughthings because they had to. We
don't have to push throughthings anymore, right? And so
(07:38):
you know when it comes to whatmotivated me? I say this with
all respect for my elders andthose who came before me, as
much as they did their very bestwith the circumstances they had
and with the resources they weregiven, I knew I didn't want to
(07:58):
live my life the way that theylive their lives. You know, my
grandmother, God rest her soul,made $750 every two weeks at a
job she worked at for 30 yearsand took care of for kids by
herself on that sometimes lessthan that, because her pay went
up over time. She even up untilher very last day she was
(08:24):
diagnosed with stage fourcancer. She never told any of us
how bad the cancer was, and shejust endured it by herself. And
so I remember just looking back,this was around the time I was
about 25 going on 26 justlooking back and thinking, I
don't want to shoulder thatburden that way, like God forbid
(08:46):
anything were to happen to me. Idon't want to hold all of that
in because I could only imaginewhat it was like knowing that
she was in her last days andhaving all these people around
her that she spent more timeworrying about than catering to
her own needs, catering to whatshe needed in those moments. And
(09:07):
so, you know, while my familyhas taught me a lot of good and
I love them, they've also shownme a lot of things that I want
to try to do better as I growand as I develop. So that was my
motivation. My motivation wasjust being bigger, better,
wiser. And I think I anchored onthat, because that was always
(09:29):
what my grandmother told me shewanted for me, like she raised
me. So her thing was always, Iwant you to do better than me. I
want you to exceed what I wascapable of do, of doing I want
you to rise above theexpectations that everybody else
sets for you. And while it alsowas the anchor in my motivation,
(09:55):
it also in some seasons of mylife caused me to spiral into
positive. Andrew, and so, youknow, there's all these things
that I think I have experiencedthat are probably not much
different than anyone else'sexperience. And I know there are
so many women that I've talkedto that have gone through some
(10:16):
things that look like what I'vegone through, but I think what
has been a deciding factor forme is choice, right? Because I
said the work is the work.You're always going to be doing
the work. It doesn't look thesame in every season, but part
of doing the work is choosing.It's choosing you want something
(10:37):
different. It's choosing to lookat yourself in the mirror and
work on hard things is choosingto acknowledge that there are
things about you that aren'thealthy and you want to do them
differently, and that's okay,right? The first step is
acknowledgement. And so I just Imade a choice that there were
(11:00):
things that I wanted to bedifferent, and if I wanted to
show up as a better version ofmyself, then I had to choose to
get help.
Angela Harris (11:08):
Yeah, yeah. I love what you say about, you
know, just wanting to be bigger,better and wise, and also just
kind of trying to, like, breaksome of the stigmas that we have
within our community, like youtalked about, you know,
shouldering that weight. Andoftentimes a lot of black women
are black people. We think it,we view it as a badge of honor,
because we're carrying thisweight, but we're also carrying,
(11:28):
like you said, generations ofweight, of weight on our
shoulders, and just because theydid it, we don't, we don't have
to do it. So I applaud you forrecognizing the choice in this,
in that situation, and takingthat initiative and the weight
was not good, because, like, atleast the stress, which can
cause cancer and other chronicillnesses within our community.
So we have to let that weight goand just look at it as a win,
(11:51):
that we're not failing, butwe're winning
Brittany Ward (11:53):
absolutely 100% you're spot on. You know, you
see all the things in socialmedia about having a soft life.
You know, I've seen thingsrecently black, black women's
day of rest, right? And I thinksometimes, because of our
generational trauma and theweight that we carry, and
(12:15):
especially when we're not aware,we don't even think that we
deserve those types of things,yeah, but there's a lot of
guilt. Yeah, I've seen
Angela Harris (12:24):
especially as it relates to rest. And I was like,
I'm guilty of this as well. SoI'm trying to be more mindful
that, you know, rest isrestorative, and that I am doing
something if I'm resting, Ishould not feel guilty. If I
just want to sit on the couchfor the weekend and watch TV, if
I want to go to the park andit's like, Look at the birds.
Don't worry myself by doing it
Brittany Ward (12:42):
absolutely girl, you are dropping gems for y'all
on the line you need to writedown. Rest is restorative. Okay?
That could not be more true, andthat was something that I had to
learn, like when we talk about,you know, just my experiences
and having the opportunity tobecome the woman that I am
today, and even having theopportunity to work with other
(13:03):
women, running yourself into theground does not help anybody.
Right? My from an empty cupabsolutely and so I've talked to
women that have said, I want torest, but I feel like if I rest,
I'm not being fair to my son ormy daughter, because I'm not
(13:26):
giving them the time that Icould be giving them. Or I want
to rest, but I feel like if Itake 30 minutes to rest, I'm not
showing up the way that I needto show up as a partner in my
relationship. Or I want to rest,but you know, I'm out here,
grinding, trying to, trying toget this business up and
running, and I feel like, if Irest, I'm not working hard, as
(13:46):
those who are as hard as thoserunning alongside me, right? And
so usually what I will ask themis, okay, what happens to your
body when you don't rest? And sothey'll run through all the
different things, right? I burnout, you know, I've gotten sick,
I've had flare ups, end up inthe hospital, you know, I break
(14:07):
down because I've given so muchtime to my children and left
nothing for myself. And so nowI'm feeling empty. And so then
I'll say, So then what's, what'sthe healthier alternative? And
then they'll say, rest. Okay, sowhat are you going to do? Right?
Because I said earlier,everything is about choice,
right? And so you when you havebeen programmed a certain way,
(14:30):
you have to do your best tooverride that programming.
That's what choice is. Yeah,choice doesn't mean you don't
get it it. Choice doesn't meanyou don't get it wrong. Choice
doesn't mean you don't have dayswhere you know you should rest
and you don't choices. I do mybest to conscientiously choose
myself, and every time I makethe decision and I choose
(14:53):
myself, I'm getting better atit. And so I chose myself today.
Okay, maybe I didn't do ittomorrow, but I did it again the
next. Say, Okay, great, I chosemyself twice this week. Oh, you
know, I really wanted to go tothe spa. I got some other things
I got to do, but imma move thosearound. Imma choose myself this
time. Choice is intentional.Yes, right. And so to the extent
(15:13):
that we can show up forourselves and be intentional for
ourselves, we can show up betterfor those around us
Angela Harris (15:22):
absolutely, and like you said, it's also about
giving ourselves grace to, likeyou said, we might not get it
right the first time, but it's,you know, consistency and small
changes over time,
Brittany Ward (15:33):
absolutely 100% that is what it comes down to,
right? It comes down tocontinuously striving. And I, I
used to hate those words atwork, because it was like, Oh,
you're always running towardssomething. You're always trying
to get to the next thing. But Ithink it's okay to continuously
strive to be a better version ofyourself if you feel like you're
(15:55):
getting the results that youwant to see. You know what I
mean? And so, yeah,
Angela Harris (16:00):
just be better than you were yesterday,
Brittany Ward (16:02):
absolutely 100%
Angela Harris (16:06):
well. Heard you mentioned that you struggle with
imposter syndrome, and I know alot of black women struggle with
self doubt. So what words ofadvice do you have for those
currently dealing with thosechallenges? I Hmm,
Brittany Ward (16:23):
there's so much that I could say in that space
that I'm just I'm sitting hereand I'm reflecting, because we
often think that what westruggle with when it comes to
imposter syndrome and self doubtis just here. We think we're
just battling this, but we'rebattling so much more than that.
(16:47):
You talked about generationaltraumas, right? Generational
experiences. Imposter syndromeis something that is compounded
by everything you see around youfrom the day you are born as a
woman, society is telling youthat you are second class in
(17:09):
some countries versus others.That is more of a reality than
what we see here, living in theUnited States, and so everything
around you is telling you thatyou're not good enough.
Everything around you is tellingyou you know you don't have the
skills. Everything around you istelling you you're not worthy of
(17:30):
that. And so when it comes to myexperience with imposter
syndrome, I'm gonna be honestwith you, I've fought like hell
to override it as best I can.And so you know, for me, what
has helped me is challenging myown thinking. And so when I talk
about challenging my ownthinking, things like, Okay,
(17:53):
this job opportunity is on thetable, right? You have the
skills to apply for the jobyou're capable, but maybe they
won't see you as capable, right?That? Those are the things that
go through my head, or maybethat level is too high for you.
I know I got it, but these arethe things that counter that.
And so one of the things thatI'll ask myself is, well, why do
(18:18):
you believe that? What evidencedo you have of that. What
evidence do you have in yourlife that says that you aren't
ready for that job? Right? I golook back at my resume. Well, my
resume has this I got thisexperience and I got these
skills. I don't really have anyevidence that suggests that,
(18:42):
yeah, I'm not capable ofapplying for that job. So why am
I really questioning whether ornot I'm capable of applying for
that job? And so it's one ofthese things that my therapist
taught me, which is justchallenging everything, asking
yourself, do you have evidence?Oh, you know you're incapable of
showing up this way. Okay. Whatevidence do you have that
(19:04):
suggests that that's the case?Challenging my thinking and
challenging my mindset has beencrucial in helping me overcome
imposter syndrome, and itdoesn't mean I don't still deal
with it. I still have momentsevery single day where I'm
questioning whether or not I amgood enough, questioning whether
or not I am capable enough. ButI think the key is to figure out
(19:26):
and understand how to manage it.And so small thing that you can
do is just ask yourself, whatevidence do you have? Those
thoughts start to creep in,because most of imposter
syndrome is dealing withnegative thinking, right? And so
when those thoughts start tocreep in, ask yourself, what
evidence do I have? If you needto get a piece of paper and
start writing it down, whatevidence do you have? And if you
can't come up with evidence,chances are that negative
(19:48):
thought is something that youare creating in your head and
not a real thing. Yeah, yeah. I
Angela Harris (19:53):
like that. I like how you, you know, like you
said, you challenge yourselfwith the negative thoughts to
kind of, you know, reframe it.And I'm just thinking back. To a
situation recently. I wasapplying for, like, a RFP, and I
was like, looking at the, youknow, the requirements, and I'm
like, Hmm, not really sure. Butthen, you know, I paused myself
in that moment. You know what?You do have this and here's how,
like, the way it was work. I seeI had it, but I had to reframe
(20:17):
the way I was looking at it. AndI feel like, when you look at
black women in general,especially in corporate America,
there's data that says we're themost educated demographic. So
you know, we always we alreadyhave to over perform to get the
job. So how are we imposters ifwe're already over educated and
underpaid and under level forthe work that we are doing
(20:40):
absolutely 100%
Brittany Ward (20:43):
right? It's it's putting yourself in a position
where you start to look at thosethings. I think the majority of
small business owners right noware black women, and so when you
start to look at those thingsaround you, it really forces you
to question yourself where thethought is coming from. You know
what I mean? If you don't haveany evidence to back it up, then
(21:04):
you almost can't even hold on toit anymore, because everything
that you have written down, oreverything that you have started
thinking about to combat thatsays the opposite, you know what
I mean. And so it it is noteasy. It doesn't come overnight,
like it is something that I havehad to work at, and I
(21:24):
continuously work at, but, youknow, in terms of strategies for
me personally, that's theeasiest one. Is just asking
myself, do I have evidence?
Angela Harris (21:36):
And I would just say, you know, do it anyway,
even if you don't think you haveall the qualifications apply
anyway, because there's datathat says men will meet what was
it like 60% of the requirementsand apply for women, we have to
do like 90 to 100 before we evenapply, but the man who isn't
even qualified is going to applyand get the job, so do it
anyway.
Brittany Ward (21:56):
This is literally what I tell women. I say men
don't question themselves.
Angela Harris (22:02):
They don't know, but they'll, they'll, they don't
know, but they'll do it
Brittany Ward (22:06):
anyway. Do it anyway, and they'll get the job,
and then absolutely the role.Have no idea what they're
talking about. Sitting room nextto you, piggyback off of what
you're saying, repeat it, andlook like they know something.
And so that's probably
Angela Harris (22:20):
what imposter syndrome comes in, because it's
like we are checking all theboxes, but then we're working
for people that don't have thelevel of or skills or
qualifications that we do, andthey're the ones demeaning us
absolutely for that self doubt.And the imposter syndrome
probably comes from not from ourlack of ability, because of the
lack of ability of the peoplethat are managing us absolutely
(22:41):
in
Brittany Ward (22:41):
some cases. I do believe that to be the case.
Right when you look around youand you see people who are less
experienced than you at higherlevels than you, it almost makes
you question like, well, what amI doing wrong? You know what I
mean,
Angela Harris (23:01):
corporate career right there. Yes. How
Brittany Ward (23:03):
is it that, you know, Joe Schmo, is this
Angela Harris (23:09):
high school diploma?
Brittany Ward (23:11):
Yes, is this VP, right? Yes,
Angela Harris (23:15):
you can't even get a manager job. Yes, yes,
Brittany Ward (23:18):
it's making this money, and I'm sitting here
listening to him like, What areyou even talking about? But you
are hitting on why it's soimportant for us to override
that and apply anyway. Becauseif Joe Schmo can get the job
with half, sometimes less thanhalf, of the experience that you
(23:39):
have, why are you any lesscapable? Yes, you know what I
mean. And so, um, cool girl. Allthe gems, this is a good
conversation, right?
Angela Harris (23:50):
And so, as we were kind of like diving into
that, it reminded me ofsomething that I saw on
Pinterest recently, so I had topull it out. So that's gonna,
let's want to read it reallyquickly. And it says imposter
syndrome is a myth love, it's amyth that makes you believe you
need to fix yourself in order tofeel worthy. But you're not
suffering from a syndrome love.You're suffering from systems
(24:12):
that were consciously created tomake you feel unworthy. You are
not what needs fixing. You neverwere. And I feel like that's the
best description of impostersyndrome that I've ever
Brittany Ward (24:23):
heard. Absolutely. I mean that it
alludes to where I was going towhen I started talking about
just the societal factors thathave been built around us to
keep us down as women. And ifyou compound that, black women,
right? Because looking at thingslike, Oh, I go into all types of
(24:44):
things when we start talkingabout, you know, the Jim Crow
era and how that has createdinstitutional racism that we
still deal with today, all ofthe systems around us have been
built to put us in a positionwhere we believe. Believe we're
not good enough, and so, youknow, this is why I say you have
to consistently challenge it.Because when you are
(25:08):
challenging, you're not justchallenging this, you're
challenging all the systemsaround you that are influencing
this. So it is such a it is justsuch an intricately webbed
problem, right? When you look atjust all the things around us,
(25:33):
even just the stuff that we'regoing through right now, when it
comes to the presidentialelection, right, like it's such
an intricately webbed problemthat you do have to
conscientiously work hard toundo all of the stuff that comes
up in here. Because one of thethings that I tell women is it's
not always yours to carry and sowalk around with these things
(25:57):
that are coming from our moms,our moms, moms, the institutions
around us, you know, all of thethings, and we fight them on a
day to day, we we struggle withthem on a day to day, we work to
get over them on a day to day.And they're not even ours to
carry. Yes and so girl who, oh,goodness, well, that's actually
(26:24):
a
Angela Harris (26:26):
good segment, because I didn't want to touch
on psychological safety. I knowthat's a big buzzword in the
workplace, and for the listenerswho are not familiar with the
term, essentially, psychologicalsafety refers to where
individuals feel safe to expresstheir thoughts without being
punished in the workplace. And Isaw a report recently that says
(26:47):
66% of black women report notfeeling emotionally safe at
work. Not no surprise,
Brittany Ward (26:52):
yeah, not surprising at all. So, Brittany,
I'm
Angela Harris (26:55):
I want to hear your thoughts like, how do you
how does psychological safetycorrelate with self doubt when,
when it pertains to black women,
Brittany Ward (27:03):
I think it compounds it, right? And so I
can only speak from myexperience, right? So part of
the reason why I have been ableto be my best at work and I have
been able to show upunapologetically is because I've
had leaders around me who haveenabled that in me, right? So
(27:25):
I've had a lot of black andbrown female leaders who have
pulled me up, who have correctedme, who have allowed me to feel
safe showing up at work withdifferent hairstyles on
different days, without, youknow, being like, Oh, your hair
is different all the time. Like,you know, it changed today. It's
just like, oh, girl, your hairlooks cute, right? I have been
(27:48):
in rooms with women, and some ofthem not black, have been in
rooms with women who justallowed me to be right, and
because they simply allowed meto be whatever that needed to
look like for me, whatever thatneeded to look like on that day
in that season of my career,because I've had that I have
(28:13):
been unapologetic about showingup for myself the types of roles
I will take how I navigate mycareer, but it took somebody
showing me that I could do thatin order for me to do that
right. And so when it comes topsychological safety, when you
(28:34):
feel like your job is alreadyhard enough to do, you're
already carrying around thesebeliefs that come from these
other places, and then you getinto an environment that's not
psychologically safe. It'sreinforcing all the things that
you may already be strugglingwith. And if you're not coming
(28:54):
in the door with something,which is pretty much everybody
coming in the door withsomething right now, you're in
this position where you feellike your voice isn't heard, you
feel like you don't have a seatat the table. You feel like you
have to work twice as hard, andeven then, when you work twice
(29:17):
as hard is still not goodenough. You're gonna have to
stay
Angela Harris (29:21):
out real quick. He's like, Yeah, you're talking
about my corporate career here.
Brittany Ward (29:26):
Girl, I'm telling you, but these are the things
that I hear, right? Or you'rebeing piled on. They're giving
you more work than they'regiving everybody else. And now
you feel like you you can't saythis is too much, because if you
say it's too much, they gonnalook at you like, well, you
should just be able to handle itright. And so when you don't
(29:49):
have a psychologically safeenvironment, you act based on
what you're getting. You workthe late hours, even though
that, even though you areoverwhelmed. I'm overburdened,
but because you don't wantnobody else to think you can't
do it, right,
Angela Harris (30:06):
that'll show up in your review. One right, 100%
Brittany Ward (30:11):
right. To your point, if I don't do it, is it
going to end up showing up in myperformance? Right? You miss the
family outings, and you know theevents that you want to go to,
because I don't want to beviewed as not being a team
player when they have, you know,these after work events and when
they have these happy hours andthings like that. And so just
(30:34):
like people naturally respondand react from a place of
trauma, it's no different whenit comes to having a
psychologically safe environmentor not having a psychologically
safe environment, right? If youdon't feel psychologically safe,
I'm not going to talk to mymanager. I'm not going to tell
them what's going on with me,because they're not going
Angela Harris (30:54):
to be able to some, some way to kind of ding
you. So again, like, why wouldyou feel comfortable speaking
up?
Brittany Ward (31:00):
Absolutely 100% and so, you know, for me, it all
comes down to when you don'thave a psychologically safe
environment. That environmentreinforces things that you may
already believe and or feel, andit changes how you behave,
behave and react accordingly.Oh, I don't think I'll be able
(31:22):
to have this opportunity,because my manager won't allow
me to go up for it, or mymanager won't support me in it.
Okay, so I'm not gonna putmyself in for it anyway. I know
that thing that they're tryingto do on that project is wrong,
but nobody listens to me. So ifI say it's wrong, they're just
going to tune me out. I'm notgoing to tell them, it
(31:44):
influences the way that youbehave, and I think that is why
people leaders. And I can saythis because I am a people
leader, and I deal with thisevery day with my own teams. It
is so important for us to get toknow our people, to understand
what makes them tick in apositive way, but also
understand what makes themstruggle in a negative way.
(32:06):
Right? Who you are at home iswho you bring to work, and so if
you are struggling in yourmarriage at home, it's going to
impact how you show up at work.I can either be attuned to that
and build a relationship withyou so that when you're
struggling, you're tell me and Ican help you, you know, respond
and react accordingly when itcomes to your work, or I can see
(32:28):
you struggling and just pilemore on you. Right? Knowing your
people is so important, and sowhat I strive to do, I strive to
I can tell you every singleperson on my team's name. I can
tell you their husband's name,their wife's name, their kid's
name, I can tell you what theydo on the weekends. I can tell
you when they're going onvacation. I can tell you the
things that they struggle withon a day to day basis, things
(32:52):
like perfectionism, things likepeople pleasing, like we have
these conversations and we talkabout these things. And so I
think just because of the factthat not having psychological
safety compounds self doubt andit compounds the way that people
behave and react, it is yourresponsibility as a people
leader to understand your teamand to help them navigate
(33:14):
through that, because they can'tleave that on the table when
they come into the office. Justbecause they're in the office,
it doesn't work that
Angela Harris (33:20):
way. Mm, hmm, yeah. Thinking back to what you
said about first of all,connecting one on one with the
people on your team. When I lookback at my career, I can
probably name one manager.Seriously, one manager. Remember
the first day I joined her team?She said, You know, I kind of
know you from the interviewprocess, but I want to get to
(33:42):
know you on a personal level.And she was like the only
manager in my entire career thatever said that to me, and I feel
like she was the also the onlymanager that truly appreciated
some of the external activitiesthat I was involved in, outside
of working on actually recognizethat as leadership skills,
Brittany Ward (34:03):
absolutely. I mean, it is, it is a sad reality
that so many people managersdon't have people management
skills, right? And that stemsfrom really just not having good
people skills if we want to be
Angela Harris (34:22):
so managed to get promoted, whereas we can't get
promoted. But the people withthe bad skills are the ones that
get promoted. And
Brittany Ward (34:30):
I've seen it. I have seen people with the worst
engage survey scores, orengagement survey scores, worst
leadership scores, that keepgetting promoted, and it's
because it's not what they knowis who they know, right? Yes, so
you know it is girl that canopen up a door for a whole
different thing aroundsponsorship and black women that
(34:53):
we just we not even go
Angela Harris (34:54):
back up sponsorship. We're over mentored
and under sponsored. That'sunder sponsored, that. It. I had
a conversation with a former VPof HR, and he was sharing a
story with me about how he had atoxic employee on his team, and
he was getting, you know,negative feedback about this
employee. He addressed it withthat employee. The behavior
didn't change, and so heactually noted in the employee's
(35:17):
review that this person shouldno longer be allowed to be a
people leader. He said at onepoint that person eventually
made it to the shortlist to beCEO of the company. They weren't
they. They didn't make the finalcut, but they were on the
shortlist to be CEO of thecompany. But this VP of HR
essentially said that leadershipwill turn their eye because
(35:39):
results Trump toxicity. Theywill allow the toxic behavior to
continue as long as that thatleader or that person is
delivering results.
Brittany Ward (35:49):
Listen, I will say this. I have seen it and I
have heard it. I haven't hadmany of those experiences
myself, because I've just beenblessed to again be in spaces
and places where I've had goodleaders, I've had people
advocate for me, but I thinkthat in companies where the
culture itself is toxic, youwill see that, and it will be a
(36:13):
continuing cycle. And so, youknow, for me, what I tend to
focus on with women is therecomes a point again where you
have to make a choice, right? Ithink that just due to our
nature and who we are, we alwayswant to we want to tough it out.
We want to stick it out. We wantto navigate
Angela Harris (36:34):
it. Why not that we have to change that
Brittany Ward (36:37):
we don't owe them nothing. No, they had to let you
go tomorrow. Yes,
Angela Harris (36:43):
they would not be. We gotta. We gotta stick it
out for Brittany. No, no, no,they would not think twice,
Brittany Ward (36:48):
absolutely, right? They would make the
decision that they needed tomake for their company, because
that's business,
Angela Harris (36:54):
and we've seen that with the past two years,
with all the mass layoffs,specifically in the tech
industry, where black, black andbrown people have been impacted
at higher rates, absolutely,
Brittany Ward (37:04):
100% and so I say this, they're making those
decisions for their business.You have skills, you have
experience, you have expertise.You are your business, right?
What you bring to the table isyour business. You're entering
into a contract with thatcompany, you know, I'll be it,
(37:27):
you know, not a physicalcontract, but an intellectual
contract, right? And so, justlike they can easily make the
decision to let you go, you needto be able to look at them the
same way, this whole concept, Iswear, I this is one of the
things I struggle with, justbecause I was told very early
on, like, don't get attached toany person, place or thing. And
(37:49):
so this concept of loyalty to acompany, what's that? I don't
know what that is, because Iknow that they're going to make
the decisions that they need tomake, and so I'm going to make
the decisions that I need tomake for me. And I feel like
anybody who's listening, who isin this position make the
(38:11):
decision that you need to makefor you. You are your business
at the end of the day. If youare not being treated the way
you feel you need to be treated,move on. If you wouldn't stay
with a man who was mistreatingyou, why would you stay at a
company that was mistreatingyou? If you wouldn't stay in a
friendship where there was noeffort being given, why would
(38:35):
you stay at a company that isnot taking the initiative to
develop you, to grow you, topromote you, to retain you.
Right, move on.
Angela Harris (38:48):
Like that Fantasia song. Go ahead and free
yourself.
Brittany Ward (38:52):
That's a good song. I really like that song. I
didn't even when you brought itup, I was like, Oh, that's a
good one. That was a good one tothrow it. Sorry.
Angela Harris (39:01):
So when I was, you know, I guess like when I
realized it was time for me to,you know, move on and exit
corporate America. That'sactually one of the songs I used
to listen to, how this littlethree song playlist, it was free
yourself. I want to say, let itgo. I think Keisha Cole, let it
go. Okay. It was a Vivian greensong, gotta go. Gotta leave.
I've listened to those threesongs like every morning, give
(39:23):
you your motivation. Yes, I hadto come with a playlist.
Brittany Ward (39:29):
Listen. Y'all got the playlist. So when you need
to get through your decisions,you need to run those three
songs back. Let it help you.
Angela Harris (39:39):
I want to talk. So keep it in line with that,
you know, you know, moving on.So let's talk about the concept
of starting before you're ready.Because oftentimes we suffer
with that perfectionism, youknow, we think, we think we have
to have all the boxes checkedbefore we move over. But what we
don't realize is thatperfectionism, or that fear is
is like, is holding us back, andit's, in some ways, it's
paralyzing. Yeah, so how canfolks explore that and really
(40:04):
get to their true purpose?
Brittany Ward (40:07):
Hmm, how can folks explore what's holding
them back? So it's a question,how can folks move beyond what
is holding them back to get totheir true purpose.
Angela Harris (40:24):
Well, I guess, how can folks be become more
comfortable starting beforethey're ready, instead of
thinking like, Okay, I gottahave, like, all the
qualifications for the jobbefore I apply. Or maybe I gotta
before I start the business. Ineed this certification or this
training. I need this. I needthat. You know, you would still
get the 10 certifications andstill not start the business.
(40:47):
Well, my question
Brittany Ward (40:48):
would also be, what does it mean to be ready?
Angela Harris (40:51):
Yeah, right, right. So,
Brittany Ward (40:54):
when are you ever really ready? Exactly. Um, and
so, you know, for me, at somepoint you just gotta do it
right. And so there is no I wishI could say that there was a I
(41:15):
wish I could say there was aframework. I wish I could say
there was an approach. I wish Icould say there was something
special about starting beforeyou're ready, but there isn't.
There's one thing, belief inyourself. Yes, if you don't
believe that, you can figure itout, even if you don't have
(41:41):
everything that you need tonavigate it, you'll never do it.
And so again, I speak from mypersonal place of experience.
I've never had a problem. Had aproblem applying for roles that
were more senior than where Ifelt I should be, or where
(42:03):
somebody else felt I should be,but I've always believed I would
figure it out,
Angela Harris (42:09):
and was it everything is figure it out
able? Yes, I've always
Brittany Ward (42:13):
believed I would figure it out because I am so
confident in my skills and whatI bring to the table. If you
don't think I deserve, somebodyelse will think I deserve. If
you won't give me, somebody elsewill
Angela Harris (42:31):
find that one person that that's gonna give me
that yes, but there's somebodyout there that's gonna say yes,
absolutely.
Brittany Ward (42:38):
And so you know again, it goes back to what I
said about treating yourselflike a business, right? There's
not one company in the worldthat anybody could work for that
has the types of roles we wantto see, right? There's so many
different companies out there.There's only one me, right? And
(43:00):
so at some point, you've gottabelieve in yourself and the what
is blocking that is specific toeach individual. So you have to
figure out what it is that'sblocking that belief in
yourself, and you've got tofigure out how you navigate and
(43:22):
move past that. You know what Imean? Because if you don't
figure out what that thing is,it's not just the belief in
yourself that's stopping youfrom going after it. You lack
belief in yourself because ofsomething else, because you went
after it before and you didn'tget it, or because that manager
told you you would never amountto anything, or because when you
(43:44):
were growing up, you know, youwere always picked last. There's
always something behind the lackof belief. And so if you can
figure that out, and you cannavigate that, you can work on
changing that core belief aboutwhether or not you're capable,
and it'll change how you thinkabout getting started. You know,
before you're ready for me, Ioperate in the context that
(44:06):
there's no such thing as ready.You're never ready for anything.
You're never ready to graduatehigh school and go to college.
You're never ready to graduatecollege and go into the real
world. You're never ready forhaving kids. No matter how much
you prepare, there's a bunch ofstuff you don't know. You have
no idea what it's like to bemarried until you get married.
You don't know what the rolelooks like. I don't care. No
(44:27):
matter what they tell you onpaper that role is going to be
you don't know what it's goingto look like until you step into
it. And they could have boldface lied to you. And so what do
you have to lose?
Angela Harris (44:38):
Yeah, what do you have to lose? Like you said at
the beginning, you just have todo the work.
Brittany Ward (44:43):
Yeah, absolutely. What do you have to lose if
you're going to bet on anything,bet on yourself. I
Angela Harris (44:49):
say the same thing. I say the same thing.
Wow. Well, Brittany, before we.Wrap up, I have one final
question for you. I know wetalked about rest at the
beginning, so what do you do torecharge when you aren't
fearlessly leading nothing
Brittany Ward (45:11):
that if I know that sounds crazy, but
literally, I do nothing likeI'll get on the couch. I'll put
on mindless TV. I don't turn myphone off, I don't take calls, I
will try to make sure that I putmy laptop to the side, not
opening that, not responding toemails. Like rest is rest for a
(45:33):
reason, and so for mepersonally, rest looks different
for different people, if I amlaying on my couch with my
computer, or if I'm laying on mycouch with my phone, or if I'm
laying on my couch, Doom,scrolling through tick, that's
not rest. And so for me, whenI'm intentional about taking
rest, I do nothing. I lay on thecouch with my blanket, make sure
(45:56):
I got my ceiling fan on, lightsome candles, maybe crack the
window a little bit. I'll put ona movie and I'll just sit
whatever it is that I need to doto feel like my body is
recharging. I will do that now.As of late, there are some other
things that I have been gettinginto, like breath work. I really
like that. That's really goodfor you to just release tension
(46:19):
and trauma in your body. And Ihave a lot of tension in my
body. You know, trauma lives inthe nervous system, so even if
you feel like you've worked onit, it's probably still there.
Breath work for me has beenphenomenal. Some folks do
meditation. I'm not too, tooheavy into that, but working out
is another thing that sometimesI will do just to kind of
(46:42):
rejuvenate, it's probably like,What do you mean? Working out
like you're working your body,yeah, but I'm working off the
stress, and
Angela Harris (46:49):
so releasing the tension that's in the vibe,
Brittany Ward (46:53):
anything that releases tension, relieves
stress, that allows me to feellike I'm not anxious. I'm not
running towards anything. I amgrounded, centered, resourced in
my window of tolerance. That'swhat I want to do. And so for
(47:15):
me, that's blanket in the couchmost of the time.
Angela Harris (47:19):
But I love how you say you are intentional
about, you know, turning offyour cell phone or turning off
your laptop. Because even thoughwe might be on the couch
watching TV, if we're stillscrolling our phone, we're still
kind of stimulated by that 100%
Brittany Ward (47:35):
hands down, you're absolutely stimulated by
it, like I've had days whereI've been on Tiktok, Doom
scrolling and not realizing howlong I've been Doom scrolling
like just, you know, laughing atvideos or things that I find
funny, and then I'm just all ofa sudden tired, because even
though I'm not moving mentally,I'm exhausted from taking in all
(47:56):
of this information. And so, youknow, again, everybody's bodies
respond differently, so you haveto decide what it is that works
for you. But for me, just havingthe opportunity to just be and
just settle like anything thatfeels like my body is settled is
(48:17):
I'm like, Okay, let's let's goat it. Let's do it like so
that's what I do to relax. Youknow, self care and all that
stuff works, but what I havefound lately is even the things
that I do for self care take toomuch out of me to feel like I
rest. So a good example of thatis I love getting my nails and
my feet done. In fact, I'm duefor a nail appointment this week
because these things need to bedone. But that's not relaxation
(48:42):
for me anymore. Because, youknow, you get in the chair and
the nail tech wants to talk oryou're dealing with everybody
chatting it up and talkingaround you. And so like, I find
that when I want to target truerelaxation, being in a place
that's quiet or that's tempered,being in a place that feels
comfortable for me, whetherthat's on this couch or the one
(49:03):
upstairs, being in a place whereI don't feel like I have to
react and respond to anything,that's what relaxation looks
like for me. Nice. How aboutyou? What does relaxation and
rest look like for you? It's
Angela Harris (49:18):
a combination. So I like you. I do like my get on
the couch with a blanket, youknow, the mindless TV. But what
I'm finding lately, actually, acouple of weeks ago, I had the
opportunity to visit a WellnessCenter in New York, and going
in, I kind of had like, allthese things in my mind that I
was going to plan to do while Iwas there. But honestly, they
have a very nice lake on theproperty, so I spent so much
(49:40):
time just sitting in a chair,looking at the lake, looking at
the trees, you know, observingwhatever was around me, that's
so I'm finding myself. I enjoynow just spending time in
nature.
Brittany Ward (49:52):
So I was going to say that it's funny I do hike. I
don't do it as much out here,because I live in Dallas and so.
Kind of flat. There's not a lotof elevation, but right outside
the front of my house is a bodyof water. So sometimes I'll just
sit in here and look out thewindow. I don't go sit outside
too too much right now, becauseit's hot summers and Dallas are
(50:14):
a little rough, but like beingnear bodies of water, being in
the woods, like just being outin nature also settles me, yes,
and so, yeah, I know that whenit comes to the nature part, I
need to intentionally do more,because I miss it. I miss it so
(50:34):
much like the last time I hikedwas probably, I want to say,
maybe six months to a year aftermoving here and I've been here
three years. Oh, wow. So you,you just, you just gave me
something to take away with me.Go hike.
Angela Harris (50:52):
I'll be following up with you.
Brittany Ward (50:54):
Yes, please do
Angela Harris (50:57):
well. Brittany, thank you so much for joining us
today. How can our listeners getin touch with you and follow
your work?
Brittany Ward (51:04):
Yeah, absolutely. If you want to stay in touch
with me and all things that aregoing on, you can follow me on
Instagram, Tiktok X formallyTwitter, at BWcultivates, and if
you want to just stay abreast ofnew programs, workshops, things
that are going to be coming downthe pipeline. You can check out
the website,www.bwcultivates.com sign up for
(51:29):
our email list and stay in touchwith us so we can let you know
what's coming down the pipeline.
Angela Harris (51:34):
That's great. Now make sure I include all that
information in the show notesfor our listeners. Yes, please
do and to our listeners today,thank you for tuning in to the
flow podcast. As a reminder, newepisodes are released bi weekly
on Wednesdays, and the podcastis available on all major
podcast platforms until nexttime, take care. You.
(51:57):
Music. Thank you for listeningto the flow podcast. As we wrap
up today's episode, alwaysremember your unique path, your
voice and your leadershipmatter. If you loved what you
(52:19):
heard, subscribe now to stayupdated on our latest episodes.
Take a moment to leave a reviewand share this episode with
someone who can benefit fromthese conversations. You can
stay connected with me onInstagram at
@theflowpodcastwithangela, orvisit me on the web at
(52:41):
angelavharris.com, until nexttime, take care, stay inspired
and keep fearlessly leading inyour own way.
Unknown (52:58):
You.
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