Unpacking Motherhood, Mental Health, and Identity

Episode Transcript
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Angela Harris (00:05):
Welcome to the flow podcast, fearlessly leading
our way. This podcast is a spacededicated to spotlighting the
unfiltered voices of black womenin their unique leadership
journeys. I am your host, AngelaV Harris, I'm an award winning

(00:27):
coach, speaker, author andchampion from black women. Make
sure you like and subscribe tothis podcast to stay connected
to our conversation, let's getready to flow.

(00:53):
Hey, fearless leaders, welcomeback to another episode of the
flow podcast. I'm your host,Angela V Harris, if you're new
here, welcome to the flowcommunity. For my returning
listeners, thank you so much forbeing here. We recently
celebrated our one yearanniversary on March 8, 2025 and

(01:15):
I'm excited to share that we'vereached over 1200 downloads and
counting. Thank you all forlistening, sharing and
supporting the show. It trulymeans the world to me. In
today's episode, I'm speakingwith Chelsea Glover Jordan, a
therapist, author and advocatefor black women's mental health

(01:35):
who's making an incredibleimpact. Chelsea's story is all
about healing authenticity andtaking up space in a world that
often tries to box us in. Wedive deep into everything from
her journey of breakinggenerational cycles to building
her private practice during thepandemic. Get ready to be

(01:57):
inspired, especially if you'veever felt the pressure of living
up to societal expectations orfelt like your journey was too
unconventional to succeed.Chelsea's transparency and
wisdom are truly powerful, and Iknow you're going to love this
conversation. Let's jump into myconversation with Chelsea Glover

(02:19):
Jordan. Welcome to the show,Chelsea,

Chelsea Glover-Jordan (02:23):
thank you, Angela. I'm very, very,
very happy to be here. Well, I'm

happy to have you, and I'm looking forward to
our conversation. So in doingsome research about you, I
learned that we both have a lovefor balancing the seven chakras,
and I'm a Reiki practitioner, soI fully believe in socializing
holistic wellness within theblack community. So this
conversation is so important.Nice, nice. I love that, yeah.

(02:48):
And I also just love how youtake a holistic approach in your
your therapy practice as well.

Yeah. So we offer an array of of services
to to focus on the the wholeperson and not just the symptoms
that they may be presenting. So,yeah, yeah. Alright,

Chelsea, well, before we dive into what you do
today, I want to take a stepback. I know you had an
incredible journey that led youto becoming a therapist and an
advocate for black women'smental health. Can you share a
bit about your back story andwhat inspired you to get into
this field,

sure. So there are a myriad of reasons as
to why I decided to become a aclinician, a therapist to black
women specifically, but in allof my sessions, and not with all
of my clients, the initialquestions, one of the initial
questions that I ask is, whatwas the most pivotal experience
you had to kind of define whoyou are today as an adult. Um,

(03:45):
and I realized that I had notanswered that question for
myself. Um, so just inreflecting, I'm an avid
journaler. I'm a writer, and Ilove to write, and just becoming
more aware of who I am to myselfand to the rest of the world,
um, I just asked myself thatquestion, and I began to reflect
on my journey into becoming amother. Initially, I did not

(04:10):
have any interest in becoming aparent. I had no interest in
worrying about anybody asidefrom myself, just based on my
background and my ownrelationship with my mom, and I
didn't want to perpetuatecertain narratives or things
that traditionally, some blackfamilies unfortunately had to go
through. Um, so I just didn'thave want to have to do the work

(04:32):
honestly. Um, it was, it wasquite selfish, but it was, it
was my reality. And my soncurrently is 15 years old. He
has been the most revealingpiece of me. And when I say
that, directly and indirectly,becoming a mother has been the

(04:54):
most profound thing I've everhad to do, and I'm still doing
obviously, obviously, if youknow. If you're a mom, for those
of you out there, it there aretrends, right? Like things ebb
and flow, and nothing is alwaysconstant, and you have to always
be on go, right? So being ableto adapt to one becoming a
mother, the realization that Iam going to become a mother

(05:16):
after not wanting to become amother, has been very profound.
And then just my journey goinginto motherhood, and as I feel
like I have arrived in somesenses in my motherhood journey
as I parent a teenage teenageboy, it has also helped me
realize that my journey with myown mother needed some tending

(05:40):
to their head. There needed tobe some healing there. And I can
say now, you know, we'recurrently working on our
relationship, and because Ibecame my mom, it helped us
become closer. She's an amazinggrandmother, and she tends to
myself and my sisters and andher other grandchildren, and in
a beautiful way, something thatI've never seen from her, um,

(06:04):
and I feel like my me and my songot different versions of my
mom. Um, so that's just a bit ofwhy I decided to become a
clinician as well as so when Idid have my son, I struggled
with I wasn't like a mentalhealth person. I really didn't
know the ins and outs of it, butI soon found out that depression

(06:27):
was real. Postpartum depressionand anxiety and OCD became a
reality for me, and I feel likethroughout that time, the first
year of my son's life, I wasashamed, and I did not verbalize
it vocally to myself. I didn'tacknowledge it within myself,
and I did not certainlyacknowledge it to anyone else.
And I feel like if I would havehad just someone I felt

(06:50):
comfortable in going to, orsomeone who I felt understood me
and my journey, things may havebeen different for me sooner,
right? I feel like I'm in agreat place now, but sooner, and
I feel like I want to be thatfor other young mothers, so that
they don't have to go throughcertain things. And that's why I
pretty much became a clinicianto maternal black maternal

(07:13):
health.

I mean, there's so much there to unpack, and I
know that black professionalsare also underrepresented in the
mental health field. So the workthat you're doing to support
black women is, you know, blackthe black community in general,
is very much needed. I wanted togo back to something that you
said you talked about, you know,working to heal your
relationship with your ownmother and how you discovered,

(07:37):
you know, journaling and in someways, I guess it forced you to,
you know, address some thingsthat you didn't necessarily, you
know, want to address. So can wejust dive a little bit deeper
into that?

Yeah, so writing has always been
cathartic for me. It is arelease. It is a way that I can
not feel the need to beperformative and show up in ways
that people expect me to showup. I can, just like, let it all
out on the page and in writingand journaling, just like stream
of consciousness, journaling,right? Just like letting

(08:10):
everything come out, whether itmade sense or not. Um, I found
out that, you know, there's somehealing that needs to be done.
And when I it was 2019 I thinkwe were, we were entering into
the pandemic, I think, and I wasjournaling, just random
journaling. And as I wasjournaling, I began to reflect
on an experience that I had withmy mom when I was younger, and I

(08:34):
realized that I had notprocessed it. I've never
outwardly expressed any of thesethoughts um, until now writing,
and I kept writing and I keptwriting, and I was my hand began
to cramp, and I just keptwriting. And I said, there's
something here, like there'ssomething I I need to and by
that time, I was not in therapymyself, and I said to myself,

(08:56):
something needs to happen.Something different needs to
happen, something more outsideof this journaling process that
I'm undergoing, and as I beganto write, I said, I'm going to
write a memoir, and it just kindof transformed into a memoir of
my journey with my own motherand my journey as an adolescent
entering into motherhood. Butwriting has essentially, it has

(09:19):
saved me because it made merealize that through writing and
streams of consciousness, Idon't have to be performative,
and I don't have to show up inways that are not authentic and
aligned with who I really am.And I give myself permission to
do that through my through mywriting, and I hope to inspire,
if I can just inspire one younglady or black woman, and a woman
in general, but specificallyblack women, because we're so

(09:42):
marginalized and we're sounderrepresented. Like you said,
if I can just do that for afraction of the people that I
come into contact with, it wouldmake a world of difference.

Yeah, and it sounds like you already are,
like, I want to just go back tosomething else. I heard you say.
You recognize that there wassomething there, you know, as
you were writing so it. Soundslike you essentially have
become, I guess, like thegenerational curse breaker in
your family and the work thatyou've done to heal yourself,
like you said, it's also enableyou to heal your relationship
with your own mother. Yeah, so

I my mom. Hope she doesn't kill me with
this. She's really public withthis, um, but she, she doesn't
have the best relationship withher own mother, and she
acknowledges that that, in part,has something to do with her
relationship with me and I havetwo younger sisters by my with
my mother as well. And sheacknowledges the the breakdown

(10:36):
in the relationship with hermother and how that contributed
to how she parented. Is onlyuntil I decided to ask her to
sit down and have a conversationwith me. And I was like, very,
very I was scared, because Ididn't know what what her
response would be. I didn't knowif she would take accountability
or ownership of anything thathappened to me or to us when I

(10:57):
was a child, but she just satthere and she listened, and that
was so profound for me. Becauseusually, I'm not going to say
usually, but the clients that Ideal with, a lot of their
mothers, when they're havingwhen they have maternal wounds,
the mothers, they don't, theyone, they don't, either they
don't know how to takeaccountability or they don't

(11:19):
want to take accountability. Andthen that leaves the the child,
the adult child, kind of tryingto figure out the answers on
that on their own, and trying tofigure out some level of
closure. But my mom made it soeasy for me. It wasn't easy, but
she made it easier for me to dothat, because she just sat there
and she listened to me. Shedidn't try to make any excuses.
And it was at that moment that Isaid, I want to better my

(11:42):
relationship with her, becauseshe deserves that, because she
didn't acquire the things thatshe needed from her mother. But
I owe her this, because she justgave me this beautiful gift that
everybody, some people, don'tget.

Yeah, yeah. That's That's incredible. That's
incredible. And side note, I'malso an avid journal. I have my
journal here. So like, you like,first thing I do when I wake up
in the morning, my whatever's onmy mind, I just start writing.
And like, at the end of theweek, whether it's like Saturday
or Sunday, I'll do, like, a, youknow, a weekly reflection. And
it's kind of reflects on my weekand, you know, document my wins.

(12:19):
And I don't, you know, classifysmall wins or big wins, like
anything is a win. So I'm alwaysconstantly journaling. So that's
one thing we also share incommon.

I love that. I love that. Yes, I also
have a so every year, like atthe end of the year. So my son,
he my son is amazing. He'samazing. Every year he gets me a
a journal for Christmas, a newjournal, so that I have the
challenges to fill up a journalfor the calendar year. So I'm
working on my my 2025, journal.But yeah, everybody knows that

(12:50):
I'm, I'm a writer. That's whatI'm going to do, if, if nothing
else.

So yeah, I go through several within you like,
I think I just started this oneback in January, and it's almost
already full Nice.

Love that.

I want to shift gears. I heard you talk about
your book, so I know you're anauthor, and your book is called
Read life, breathe, read Love,and it's all about breaking free
from societal norms surroundingmotherhood, family and love.
What are some of the harmfulnarratives we've been
conditioned to believe aboutthese roles?

How much time do you have? I know. I
know. Well, I think I can startwith some of the narratives that
I lived personally, and thatI've seen in some of my clients,
like the week. We can relate tothose, some of those things. But
I would say the first thing thatcomes to mind is what happens in
this house, stays in this house.Yes, I think we can. We can all

(13:45):
relate to that. And that is ahindering notion toward all
things health, right, like thatis hindering toward your mental
and emotional stability,probably maybe your physical,
maybe your sexual, maybe youreducational, right? We have to,
and I think we we're doing anokay job as to getting out of

(14:06):
that narrative. But I think wecan. We can. There's still more
work to be done, but justspeaking up for ourselves and
advocating for ourselves, nomatter how old you are, right?
Obviously, age appropriately.But one thing I teach my son,
he's like I said, He's 15, he'she's in his first year of high
school, is to advocate foryourself, right? My son is a

(14:27):
he's a brilliant writer. He's afour point plus student, and
when He submitted his firstessay as a high school student,
the teacher questioned him andasked him if he did if he used
chat GBT, and I know for a facthe did not, because he's a great
writer, and he never respondedto the teacher, and I'm and
although he got an A, I said,you need to respond to her, and

(14:49):
you need to advocate foryourself and let her know that.
Thank you. I guess that's a kindof a backhanded compliment. Um,
but no, I did not use chat. GPT,this is coming from my own. And
I'm capable of doing this, plusmuch more. So one advocating for
yourself, right, and making surethat you are taking up space

(15:09):
that is a narrative that a lotof black a lot of black women,
aren't they're not used to. Sothen we show up differently in
different spaces, because wefeel like we have to do more to
get basic level recognitionright. So taking up space and
being comfortable in yourcapabilities and your sense of

(15:31):
efficacy, and that goes back tothis whole conversation of like
Dei, right? Dei is not simplyfor black people, right? It is,
it is to make sure that we areincluded, right? But then on on
another surface, on anotherlayer, is that we are qualified
and sometimes overqualified. Weare, we are highly qualified,

(15:53):
overly qualified, right? Sowe're

the black woman and most educated demographic in
the country, so we'reoverqualified for the under
level positions that we aregiven in corporate America.

Yeah, but we don't see ourselves in those
spaces. Nine times out of the10. We see ourselves as having
to work harder, right? Wheninherently we just have it. We
just have that thing that otherpeople try to acquire. And it's
very unfortunate that if we havenot arrived in a in a space of
healing and self awareness, wewon't be able to recognize in

(16:25):
ourselves that we are okay. Weare entitled to take up space.
So I would say taking up space,setting boundaries. And then I
think lastly, the, I mean,amongst other things, but
lastly, the the mother, themother daughter relationship,
right? And it can be so taboo,it can be so it can pull out

(16:47):
your heartstrings, because thereis typically, historically, a
history of like competition orjust not getting along, or what
do they say? You starting tosmell yourself right, like
things like that, right, likecoming up when, when a child is
like trying to assert their art,their boundary, or trying to

(17:11):
reveal their identities tothemselves and to the rest of
the world, right? It can be verydifficult for them to be in that
space authentically, if theirmother is not a supporting
source for them. So I think thatthose are the my top three right
now. They come off.

Okay, so I heard you say, advocate for yourself,
take out space and setboundaries.

Mm, hmm, Yep, absolutely, those are
important. Okay,

so tell us the meaning about the name of your
company, three rows therapy. Howdid you come to that name. So

I started my business during the pandemic,
and I have never been withoutbusiness, because mental health
is big. And I'm grateful that,you know, I I've always been
full, especially during thepandemic. That was a ballsy move
on my end. So I'm grateful thatit did work out. But I was
thinking of names. The firstname that I came up with was

(18:04):
seven chakras. But then Ithought that not too many people
know about, you know, thespiritual realm in that regard,
and like Reiki, like you said,and balancing your chakras so
it's the chakras are indicatedin my logo. But I wanted a more,

(18:27):
I guess, mainstream, mainstreamname, so I went with three rows.
Three is my favorite number, andit represents so many things.
And then the three rows so mind,body and spirit, you go down
mind body and spirit, and theyalign at some point, they travel

(18:48):
down your your life's path,parallel. And they all have to
be doing something. They allhave to have a meaning. They all
have to be healthy and viewedand catered to in order to form
this holistic person. So that isthe details behind my name.
Okay,

okay, so you started your business during the
pandemic. I think I also readthat you used to be a government
employee before you pivoted intoentrepreneurship. Tell me more
about that.

So I used to so I live in this I live in
Maryland, and by education, I'ma clinical social worker, and my
first job out of graduateschool, University of Maryland
was the Department of SocialServices, Child Protective
Services. And when people hearChild Protective Services, they
think about baby snatchers,right? Like we come in and we

(19:39):
take the babies and we put theminto foster care. That I did
that I took kids out of theirhome and placed them into foster
care, but more often than not,we provided services to families
to prevent them from thechildren from being in foster
care, right? We were more of aproactive entity, unless it was

(19:59):
like. Dire straits that therewere, you know, little to no
hope in the capacity. But I wasthere for seven and a half
years. I started off as a casemanager, then I moved myself up
to a social worker, and then Ibecame a supervisor of the Child
Protective Services Unit inPrince George's County. And

(20:22):
there, I just learned so many,so many things as far as I
haven't and I'm a compassionateperson, but I just looked at
people's circumstancesdifferently in that capacity,
because I was able to understandthat although this is my
experience, other people'sexperiences. It doesn't mean

(20:43):
that they're they're wrong orthey're they're not capable of
doing right or makingappropriate decisions for their
children. It's about access toresources that they may or may
not have that sometimes put themin positions where they have to
do things that are like life anddeath, or, you know, whether I

(21:03):
eat tonight or I don't eattonight, whether I feed myself
or I feed my child. So it justgave me a better perspective on
the lack of resources that areallotted to people who look like
me and people who come fromsituations that I could have
very well been in if I didn'tmake I could have been one

(21:23):
decision away from where theyare, right? We all are, yeah,
yeah. So that that experiencekind of helped mold me and
understanding the higher levelof compassion that everybody
needs to have, just world, theworld in general. But it came to
a point where I was I was therealmost eight years. It came to a

(21:44):
point where I began to feeloverworked and underpaid and
that my presence wasn't makingthe difference that I wanted it
to make. So I decided to quit mygovernment job and go out during
a pandemic, and start a privatepractice so that I could see the

(22:06):
clients that I wanted to see, sothat I could implement the
modalities that I wanted toimplement, and say the things
that I wanted to say, obviouslywithin ethical and legal realms,
but just do things the way Iwanted to do, so that when I
came to work, it didn't feellike work, it felt like me
showing up for myself, andthat's what some of the clients

(22:28):
that I have and I hand pick myclients, right? Just because you
call for a consultation does notnecessarily mean we're a great
fit. I want this to be alucrative experience for you,
because if, if you're not payingme directly, you're paying your
insurance company, and yourinsurance company is paying me,
so somebody's paying me, andthis is your experience, so I

(22:49):
want it to be the mostproductive experience that you
have for yourself. So if I feellike it's not a good fit out,
like refer out. I have otherclinicians in my practice. I
refer to them. If they're not agood fit for for those
clinicians, then I refer out toanother practice. But I just
wanted to show up authentically,like my, like I have on a hoodie
right now, like I show up in ahoodie, a baseball cap, and my

(23:12):
clients, we just, we just haveregular conversations, and they,
they don't even know that whatI'm doing is clinical in the
background. And I love that. Ijust love that. Mm, hmm. One

of the things that stood out as you were
sharing that story, it soundslike you were definitely lacking
fulfillment and thatsatisfaction you know, in your
your previous life, and I candefinitely relate to that. And I
know within our community, Ifeel like when we start sharing
that with our friends andfamily, it's like we aren't
necessarily allowed to not beunhappy at our jobs, or we

(23:44):
shouldn't, you know, complainbecause you talked about, you
know, you kind of, you movedaway from your good government
job. We've always been told, goto school, you know, get the
degree, get that good job withbenefits. And it's kind of like,
you know, suck it up and stickit out. So how did your friends
and family react when you madethis pivot into entrepreneurship
during the pandemic.

Surprisingly, I received great feedback. I
think it's because my family andfriends know that if I'm going
to do something, I'm going to doit and I'm going to go hard in
doing it. So they were they wereall supportive, and I got
nothing but good feedback, andpeople referring clients to me

(24:23):
in the early stages, that wasamazing. But when I left my
government job, the peoplethere, the feedback there, was
kind of iffy, and in that space,everybody didn't look like me.
Matter of fact, I was I was aminority there, and although,
you know my supervisor, she wasgreat. She she's a white woman,

(24:44):
she was amazing. I just feltlike the microaggressions, not
specifically from her, but justin general, when saying this is
what I plan to do, I'm going toset out and go out on my own in
private practice, themicroaggressions. You know, you
sure about that, or, you know,well, where the client's going
to come from, and just likeslick, this is um, but that

(25:08):
didn't discourage me, because atmy family and friends, they
definitely had my back. And I'veseen other black women around my
age at the time who weresuccessful in those spaces. So I
had no doubt that I could not doit, because when I put my mind
to something, I'm going to doit. Yeah,

I can relate to that. And I feel like often
times when we have thosenaysayers, it's often them
projecting their fears andinsecurities onto us.

Yes, absolutely, absolutely. That's
why it's that just speaks to theimportance of surrounding
yourself around people who whoare like minded, who are just as
ambitious as you? Yes, well, whowho pour into you as much as you
pour into them? That is veryimportant. And if they are not
doing those things, then theyprobably shouldn't be in your
circle.

Absolutely, absolutely. Well, I know I want
to switch gears again. So I knowmany mothers pour so much into
themselves, into raising theirchildren, and when a child
leaves home for the first time,whether it's for college, the
military or just moving out tobe on their own, it can bring up
a range of emotions. So whatadvice do you have for mothers

(26:12):
navigating this transition,especially those who are
struggling with struggling withfeelings of loss, identity
shifts and anxiety? Did you readmy latest blog? No,

my latest blog, or one of my latest blogs,
is right? Is is this right? AndI'm going through that now, and
it's crazy, because my son,although he's 15, I presume he
will be going to college. Ipresume he's going to get a
scholarship to college. I amgrieving him, because there has

(26:46):
been obviously, so manytransitions from year to year,
as far as like, his level ofindependence and how much he
needs me and how much he doesn'tneed me, and what that looks
like, and like the changes thatcome with that when he entered
into high school at thebeginning of this school year,
we always do like a smallcelebration at the the first day

(27:08):
of school. I don't care how oldyou are, we do. We gonna do a
small celebration, right? Andgonna take pictures? Um, so we
did it this year, and he got onthe bus, and I just started
Bucha crying, and I called mybest friend and I said, I can't
believe he's in high school.Like, I can't believe this. I
remember when he was inpreschool and I was dropping him
off and him crying because hedidn't want me or his dad to

(27:32):
leave, and now I'm cryingbecause he's leaving. And I'm
like, I only have three moretimes of this, like, like, in
high school, right? So I havefreshman year up until senior
year, and I just started tothink about what life will begin
to look like once he's off incollege. He wants to go to
college in California. I mightbe moving to California,

(27:54):
honestly, but he wants to go tocollege in California. And just
his level of independence andhim not needing me, it forces me
to continue to push the envelopeand finding my identity outside
of being a mom, and that's why Iencourage a lot of my clients
like you are multifaceted, likeyour identity is not you are not
a worker, you are not a mom, youare not a wife, you're not a

(28:16):
girlfriend, you are all of thesethings and What else, right? So
we have conversations as thatrelates to your hobbies, what
makes you feel fulfilled? Whatmakes you feel happy outside of
serving other people? Becausejust as women, we serve people
that is just in our nature, andwe sometimes forget to serve
ourselves, right? And that canbe lost really fast when you

(28:41):
become a pair, especially ifyou're a parent of multiple
children, right? So I justrealized the importance of
having conversations with myselfand journaling about those
things and then enacting thosethings and putting them into
putting making them my reality,and finding hobbies and doing
things without my son andrealizing that he has his own

(29:02):
friend group, and he's not goingto want me there dropping him
off, he's going to want to maybetake a Uber or ride with a
friend or something like that.That has been something that's
hard for me. Had that has been alittle hard for me, but as I
realize and become aware ofthose things and those feelings
associated with it, it kind ofdesensitized me a little bit.

(29:25):
But what I will say to otherwomen and other mothers who are
experiencing or who have whohave experienced similar
emotional roller coasters, isjust making sure that you are
reflecting on your identity,whether it's before your
identity before becoming aparent, because there are some
remnants of that still present,right? You are definitely not

(29:47):
the same person you were beforebecoming a mother, but there are
definitely some remnants ofthat. So bringing that into the
future and figuring out what theversion of that is like, what
what does that look like? Now?Am in this stage of life, what
is your identity andunderstanding that is, it is a
multi faceted thing. A lot ofthe assignments that I have my

(30:09):
clients do when they strugglewith, like trying, like
transitions and their roles oflife, they write the word
identity at the top of theirpage, and then stream of
conscious, stream ofconsciousness after that,
whether it's like theirdefinition of identity, what
they want their identity to be,what they acknowledge their
identity as, right now, right?And we kind of process and talk

(30:33):
about is that aligned with whoyou really are and who you
really want to be to yourselfand to the rest of the world. So
one go into therapy, you know,using mindfulness tactics, such
as journaling and meditation andthings like that, and just
talking, and also talking toyour your mom friends, right?
Finding a circle, a tribe ofmoms who are going through

(30:55):
similar things, so that you canprocess together, those are the
things I would say off the top.Okay?

And I know you also have a guided journal
called maternal musings. Tell usmore about that. So that

is really a compilation of the entries
that I have done for myself andentering into my motherhood
journey, and then beyond, right,like as I still go down this,
this path, um, but it's simply,I think it's like maybe 200
journal prompts that women canuse before they even become a

(31:29):
mother, right? Because itreflects on their journeys with
their own mother and their tiesto their ancestors and their
ties to their their mothers andmother figures and even their
father figures and fathers,they're ties to their siblings.
So it focuses on all of thosefamilial ties, and then it moves
into, you know, what are yourexpectations of yourself when

(31:51):
becoming a mother as you becomea mom now that you have become a
mom, what are your expectations?Are they realistic? Are they
unrealistic? Are you being toohard on yourself? What do you
want to do for yourself outsideof anybody else, children
included? Who do you want to beto yourself and to these people?
And then it focuses, it focuseson, you know, if you want to
have more children, and whatthat could look like. And it's

(32:13):
still making time for yourself,even though you have to tend to
multiple children. It's justkind of like a a linear journey
of what becoming a mother can befor you, and you really defining
this, these experiences foryourself, and not allowing
society to say, Hey, this iswhat you need to conform to.
This is what is normal, right?We don't use that that that term

(32:36):
in in my therapy sessions,because normal is very
subjective, and what your normalAngela is is not my normal. We
try to figure out how we candefine that sense of normalcy
for them and without comparingyour experiences to other
people's experiences. So thejournal, the guided journal, is
just bringing awareness tothings that you may not have

(32:58):
even thought needed to be youknow you need to be aware of,
um, so, yeah, okay.

Well, thank you for sharing that. I love that. I
love how you personalize. Andit's like, I like the fact that
what's normal for me or what'snormal for you is not the same
for everyone. Yes, ma'am, yeah.Cuz we can't fit. We all. We
can't fit in the box, not amonolith. And

they always say, what is this saying?
Comparison is the thief of joy.Yes. So you know, your journey
is not my journey, and we can beseemingly looking like we're
doing some of the same things,but we don't know the backstory.
We don't know what it took toget there. We don't know what
the sacrifices were, and wedon't know, you know, our
emotional and mental well beingand results to these things. So

(33:43):
just the guided journal was justa ploy for me to help young,
young mothers, or mothers ingeneral, you know, understand
that their journey is their own,and that we can't get this
experience back. We can't get alot of these experiences back.
So it's very important that youbask in these experiences and
learn from them so that you canbe the best version of you

(34:03):
possible,

absolutely. Well, I want to move into our
lightning round, and this iswhere I ask you some rapid fire
questions. So whatever comes tomind, there's no right or wrong
answer. So are you ready? I'mready. All right, what's one
thing you try to do every day?

Tell my son, I love him and give him a
kiss every day,

when do you feel most alive?

When I'm doing nothing, I'm always on go
doing something, but when I'mdoing nothing, mindless
activity, I feel most alive.

What's the mindless activity for you?

I love junk, reality TV, like 600 pound
life I love like, I love it all,all the reality shows, like I
don't that's not my problem. So.Yeah,

Unknown (35:00):
right, that's, that's one of my guilty pleasures, too.
Yes.

Can you share a professional experience that had
a big impact on who you aretoday?

That's a really good one. I would say.
The first day I walked intochild protective services, um,
it was in Charles County,Maryland, and I was 24 I think I
was 24 years old, and I was theonly black woman in Child
Protective Services out of seveninvestigators. And I was

(35:32):
intimidated. I had very, reallylong locks, and I have a like my
style of clothing is, it can bevery it can be androgynous. It
can be like in your face and mejust walking into that white
space, it felt intimidating. Butas the months started to, you

(35:55):
know, go by, and I started to dothe work, and I started
receiving affirmation andvalidation that I am supposed to
be there and I'm fully capableof being there, it just made me
walk differently and made me seemyself differently and just
begin this journey of like I'msupposed to be here and take up
space, yeah,

yeah, yeah. What's your go to mantra when
you're facing a challenge? Ihope

I can say this, but excuse my language.
Fuck it. My dad tells me. Hesays it's not that serious. He
always says it's not thatserious. Fuck it. That is my go
to mantra, because I strugglewith anxiety just growing up,
and I still struggle withanxiety. Sometimes it has to be,

(36:42):
I have to be made aware of andreminded that it's not that
serious and it's whatever'sgoing to happen, it's going to
happen. So

when you need a quick energy boost, what's your
go to?

Quick energy boost? I love to, I love
to work out, um, but my thingis, like, cardio. I have a
treadmill in my office now, andI'll do like, 30 to 35 minutes
of an incline on the treadmill,and I have a TV right here, and
I watch TV, junk TV, andthat'll, that'll be my boost,
kind of, to break up the themonotony of the day.

Nice, nice. What's the boldest risk you've
ever taken,

quitting my good government job? Have a
practice in a pandemic,

but it's work. It's worked for you. It has
worked. Yes, okay, last, last,rapid fire question, how do you
how do you personally definesuccess.

Oh, that's a really good one. I
personally define success. I usejournaling to help me with that,
and I write down what I feelgrateful for, and I use
journaling to outline what makesme feel fulfilled and happy. And

(38:03):
then I take that and I say, isthis how I want to live my life,
like the things that havehappened to me over the past
week or the past month? Is thishow I want to live my life? Is
this aligned with my life'spurpose and my goals? And if the
answer is yes, then I'msuccessful, I'm happy. But if
it's not, then there obviouslyhas to be some tweaking, right?

(38:23):
But I'm I'm really not, I'mreally never far off from it,
because I do things align withwhat I want to do, honestly, but
I just use reflection andawareness to determine if that
is something that you know I'maiming towards, I'm going
towards the success. Yeah,

well, before we wrap up, we may have already
touched on this and some of therapid fire questions, but I do
like to ask all my guests oneparticular question. So what do
you like to do when you aren'tfearlessly leading

I like to I set a date every month to hang
out with my son every month likehe knows movies are our thing,
so we go to the movie theaterevery month, and if we're not
going to the movies, we go eatat a restaurant or something.
But definitely spending timewith my son as long as he will
allow me to before he goes outinto this world and does things

(39:16):
with his friends and his hisgirlfriend or whatever. And then
I love to shop. I love to shopand just be outside, like in the
mall and just hanging out andpeople watch. So those are the
main two things. Yeah, nice.

I love that. Thank you. Well, Chelsea, thank
you so much for sharing yourinsights with us today. How can
our listeners stay connectedwith you?

I am on Instagram, and Instagram is the
number three rose R, O, A, D, Stherapy, and then tick tock at
three dot roads, dot therapy.And then I'm also on Facebook,
three rose therapy, three rowstherapy, or Facebook, yeah,

okay, I'll make sure I include that information.
In the show notes so thelisteners can stay connected
with you.

Thank you so much. And then also my
website, www three rosetherapy.com, also you can send
inquiries there.

Okay. Well, thank you again, Chelsea. And to our
listeners, I hope you foundtoday's episode as insightful,
as inspiring as I did. Thank youfor tuning in today until next
time, take care. Hey, fearlessleaders, we've been on this
journey for over a year, and Iwant to take a moment to thank
you for your support. If youlove what you're hearing on the

(40:31):
flow podcast, please considersupporting us on buy me a coffee
atbuymeacoffee.com/angelaVHarris,
every little bit helps us keepthese conversations going. Thank
you for being a part of the flowfamily. Thank you for listening

(40:55):
to the flow podcast as we wrapup today's episode, always
remember your unique path, yourvoice and your leadership
matter. If you loved what youheard, subscribe now to stay
updated on our latest episodes.Take a moment to leave a review
and share this episode withsomeone who can benefit from

(41:18):
these conversations. You canstay connected with me on
Instagram at@theflowpodcastwithAngela, or
visit me on the web atAngelaVharris.com Until next
time, take care. Stay inspiredand keep fearlessly leading in

(41:39):
your own way so.

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