June 15, 2025 • 55 mins
Have you ever wondered how to engage elected representatives to advocate for a cause you feel passionately about? In this special extended episode of The Fosgail Mindset, Myka Kennedy Stephens sits down with author and non-partisan activist Cynthia Changyit Levin to explore how advocacy can unlock personal and collective potential, even amid uncertainty and political polarization. Cynthia shares her journey from new mom to seasoned advocate, offering practical strategies for engaging in effective, bridge-building activism—whether you're new to advocacy or a seasoned organizer. The conversation highlights the power of community, the importance of organizing, and the unique strengths that caregivers, especially mothers, bring to advocacy work. Cynthia also addresses the emotional realities of activism, including anger, grief, and joy, and offers self-care practices to sustain long-term engagement. Special attention is given to librarians and others facing challenges in today’s political climate, with actionable advice for organizing, storytelling, and leveraging existing resources to defend vital institutions. The episode wraps with a preview of Cynthia’s upcoming handbook, Advocacy Made Easy, designed to empower anyone to take impactful civic action, and an invitation to connect for further advocacy resources and community support
Contact Cynthia Changyit Levin: https://www.changyit.com/contact
Order From Changing Diapers to Changing the World: Why Moms Make Great Advocates and How to Get Started: https://www.changyit.com/books
Cynthia’s Advocacy Made Easy blog: https://ccylevin.substack.com/
Read the companion blog post: https://www.fosgail.org/blog/2025/06/15/2025-06-15_advocacy-as-path-to-potential/
Sign up for the Fosgail Field Notes newsletter: https://www.fosgail.org/discover-more/newsletter/
Join the Fosgail Community: https://community.fosgail.org
Recorded May 20, 2025 with Descript.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (00:13):
Welcome to the fifth episode of the Fosgail Mindset.
I'm your host, Myka Kennedy Stephens.
This is a special extendedpodcast episode with author and
activist Cynthia Changyit Levin.
I caught up with her on May 20th,2025 to talk about the importance
of advocacy work, how to engage inadvocacy, and how to be an activist
(00:37):
while also attending to wellbeing inthe midst of chaos and uncertainty.
I came away from our conversation inspiredand hopeful, and I hope you do as well.
Hi everyone.
Welcome to the Fosgail Mindset.
Today I am joined by an old friend, old in the fact that we've known
(01:01):
each other a long time, a long timefriend, Cynthia Changyit Levin.
Levin is the author of FromChanging Diapers to Changing
the World (01:12):
Why Moms Make Great Advocates and How To Get Started.
And she's also got an upcoming handbooktitled Advocacy Made Easy, that will
be launching this summer in 2025.
A non-partisan activist working acrossa variety of issues, Levin coaches
(01:33):
volunteers of all ages to build productiverelationships with members of Congress.
She advocated side by side with her twochildren from their toddler to teen years,
and crafted a new approach to advocacybased on her strengths as a mother.
She's currently a volunteer withRESULTS, the One campaign, Bread for
(01:54):
the World, CARE, Moms Demand Action forGun Sense in America, MomsRising, and
the UN Foundation's Shot@Life Campaign.
Thank you so much forjoining me today, Cynthia.
Cynthia Levin (02:09):
It is my pleasure and I listened to you, you know, reading off
all of those things, but you and I kneweach other before any of that happened,
and I was just learning to become anactivist and you were around for some of
the very first actions I ever organized.
So this is really funto be with you today.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (02:28):
Yes, yes.
I remember bringing my children to yourhouse for a letter writing campaign.
I think you were volunteeringfor RESULTS at the time.
Cynthia Levin (02:39):
Yeah,
Myka Kennedy Stephens (02:39):
And we came over to your house.
We'd only been in the neighborhoodfor about two months, I think.
And,
Cynthia Levin (02:46):
Yeah.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (02:48):
you know, it was just, Hey, come over let's,
we're gonna have snacks and we'regonna write letters and draw pictures
and advocate for fair housing and,
Cynthia Levin (03:01):
Something like that.
I'm
Myka Kennedy Stephens (03:02):
yeah.
Cynthia Levin (03:03):
related if it was RESULTS, but you didn't see that coming to have a
quick invite to a political action withyour kids, but you were down for it.
You were game, and it was great.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (03:13):
Yes.
That was quite a long time agowhen our kids were in preschool.
Cynthia Levin (03:18):
Are we going to date ourselves?
We probably should.
Just for context.
Yeah.
We have a college freshman,well, college sophomore now.
'cause they just finished up 19-year-olds.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (03:30):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
They, they've grown up, haven't they?
So, how did you become involved inadvocacy and lobbying work and what's
kept you engaged in it for so long?
Cynthia Levin (03:45):
It would've been right around that time that we met
when I was first getting involved.
The first time that anybody askedme to write a letter, much like
I asked you to write a letter toCongress, was at my church and it
would've been before I had kids.
My church was involved with a groupcalled Bread for the World, and Bread for
(04:08):
the World Churches will once a year dowhat they call an offering of letters.
You know, usually you think of anoffering at a church or a synagogue
or something as like offering money.
But Bread for the World askspeople to write letters to
Congress about hunger specifically.
You get some education on it andthey tell you how to write a letter.
(04:29):
My church, the volunteers were very sneakyand they would actually bake bread in
the church during the church service.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (04:37):
Oh wow.
Cynthia Levin (04:37):
So you would be sitting there and then you would smell this
wonderful smell going, and then theywould come up and say, "you can have
some bread when you write your letters."And you're like, okay, what do I have
to write to get to get that bread?
But that was the firsttime I ever took an action.
And then, fast forward a littlebit to when I had my first child.
(05:00):
2003 is when my child was born.
And I discovered something.
Just fun fact about my body, is thatmy milk doesn't come in for a while.
And now having kids, thatis just what happens to me.
It doesn't necessarily happen toeverybody, but I was so focused on
being what I thought was a good mom,that I wanted to breastfeed only.
(05:23):
And, unintentionally wasdepriving my child of nutrients.
And, four days into Yara's lifethings were not going well.
And I called my doctorand just really upset.
She was like, calm down.
You just need to get some formula intothat baby and everything's gonna be fine.
But effectively the baby was starvingand I didn't quit because I was so
(05:47):
focused on trying to do the right thing.
So Christmas Eve, husband runs out toCVS, we get some formula, little water.
Boom, baby's fine.
But then I started thinking about allthe moms around the world that don't
even have clean water, much less a quickpharmacy to get to, or a doctor to call.
(06:07):
That was sort of the inkling howI started thinking about that.
It would be a few years later beforesomebody encouraged me to go to Washington
DC to take more actions besides makingphone calls and writing letters.
Which by the way, are wonderful thingsto do when you have a newborn because
they wake you up at all hours of thenight and then you're wide awake.
(06:29):
And, sometimes calling, an answeringmachine of a member of Congress or
just writing a letter would like,help me settle down from those
weird 2:00 AM thoughts of like, oh,there's all these children everywhere
in the world that are dying.
It's like, well, I coulddo something about it.
So that was kind of the, thebeginnings of everything.
About the time you came around, I wasstarting to take things to the next
(06:52):
level of inviting my friends to do it.
And, getting to the other part ofyour question of like what keeps me
involved, it's the involvement withthese organizations and being with
like-minded people that share a visionof what the world can be like and
are taking real actions to do it.
I think there's nothingelse more inspiring for me
(07:13):
than my fellow volunteers.
And, when my friends joined in,that was really empowering too
to see that my efforts were beingmultiplied through your actions.
Things like that happeningover and over, over the years
that, that keeps me involved.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (07:31):
That's beautiful.
I see in that a really special connectionfor the people that you're advocating for.
They're actual people for you,is what it sounds like to me.
I mean, you identify withthem, you relate to them.
They're not just statistics.
Cynthia Levin (07:51):
Yeah, when I started I was, you know, doing this for
moms in those nebulous othercountries that, didn't have as much.
And I didn't think that I'dever meet them, probably.
So it was just sort of an extensionof my imagination from statistics.
But a funny thing happenedalong the way is that I did
(08:14):
start meeting them at one point.
I got an invitation from theUnited Nations Foundation.
They knew of my work with RESULTS,and they had a program where they
brought several moms of young kidsto Uganda to meet moms of young kids
who were receiving services throughUNICEF and through translators we would
(08:37):
speak to them and talk about that.
So that was a really special timefor me around 2012 or something
like that, where that kind ofcame to fruition and became real.
Another thing that happenedwas that I branched out.
I realized that I couldn'tignore the poverty in my own
country in the United States.
(08:58):
So I started doing work, alsothrough RESULTS and Bread for the
World, on programs like SNAP, theSupplemental Nutrition Assistance
Program, WIC, the Women Infants andChildren program, Renters, I think
you mentioned that we might've beendoing something on housing back then.
And then it becomes very, veryreal because these are the friends
(09:19):
and neighbors in your area.
Like when we sent our kids to publicschool, there were kids on SNAP.
And so there are people that are in ourcommunity and now I have many friends that
are advocates that I'm fighting for them.
And I've made friends who areadvocates in the community
working on disability advocacy.
(09:41):
There's a woman who's talkedabout in my book, her name is
Elena Hung, and I tell her story.
I have profiles of differentmoms and guess what?
Here we are in 2025 and we'refighting for Medicaid again.
And when I take actions on Medicaid,I am thinking directly about
Elena and her daughter Ziamara.
(10:02):
It is not a faceless thing.
Their faces are beautifuland I'm fighting for them.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (10:08):
Mm-hmm.
As you mentioned, the political landscapeis much different now than it was when you
started in this work over 15 years ago.
Cynthia Levin (10:20):
It is like those memes they say, it's like "she didn't
know it, but [laughter] this isgoing to be really important later!"
Myka Kennedy Stephens (10:28):
Right, you've described yourself in your writing as
a peaceful person and a bridge builder,and those are two cornerstones of
your signature approach to advocacy.
How have those cornerstones beentested as we've seen the US political
environment become more polarized?
Cynthia Levin (10:50):
Yeah.
I'm gonna start this by saying thatwe need all kinds of activists, and
sometimes bridges need to be burnt.
But for me, it is my nature to be abridge builder and a peaceful person.
It's sometimes not the most popularkind of activism that you see out there.
(11:11):
Through my work, I've seen just incrediblethings happen when activists go in
and talk to people who might thinkincredibly different things than they do.
But narrowing down on one issue andspeaking human to human, and minds
being changed, I think that thisis what's needed more than ever on
(11:36):
a level not only just constituentto member of Congress, but on our
level, on the person to person level.
I also find the closer theperson is to you who disagrees
with you, the harder it is.
And there's probably people listening onthis podcast who are at political odds
(11:58):
with their families and, I find thatthat is probably the hardest of all.
When I talk to my members ofCongress, I'm not their best friend.
We have a professional relationshipand stuff like that, but we're
not like going out for a beerafterwards or anything like that.
It's like we have jobs to do.
They have in their mind what they need todo, and I have in mind what I need to do.
(12:22):
And we sit down and we are professionalfor the duration of that conversation.
Probably my most controversial blog Iever wrote was, I think it had a title,
something like, Can You Set AsideYour Differences for Five Minutes?
Myka Kennedy Stephens (12:35):
Hmm.
Cynthia Levin (12:35):
And it was about this kind of thing because that particular
blog was about some work that I wasdoing with Senator Josh Hawley's office.
Many people know of Josh Hawley, if theydo around the country for his signature,
famous picture from January 6th with hisarm up raised cheering on the rioters.
(12:56):
I'm never gonna agree with him onthat, and he's probably not gonna
agree with what I think on that issue.
But what I am there for when I go into hisoffice is to talk about people in poverty.
And sometimes I'm talking aboutglobal poverty for people who
have never even heard of hisname and have no idea who he is.
(13:16):
But I feel like my reasons for doing thisare bigger than my disagreements with him.
And they have to be.
Your why has to be bigger than youraversion to talking to somebody
who's in opposition to you.
So some surprising thingshappened along the way.
(13:36):
I would meet with him.
I had some photo ops with himwhere we would talk about different
things and I took some veryfriendly looking pictures with him.
And, you know, the big picturethat came from that blog was I was
playing rock paper scissors with himbecause I just, I had had many stiff
formal pictures that I was like,this isn't really going anywhere.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna askhim to do something silly.
(13:58):
And I was like, would youplay rock, paper, scissors?
And he is like, uh, yeah.
Okay.
And we both came up with scissors and wewere both really surprised in that moment.
And so the look of surprise anddelight on our faces is there.
And he was like, do you wanna do it again?
I'm like, no, no.
We agreed on something.
So let's just let thepicture stand like that.
(14:21):
But I became memorable in the officefor that, and that's helped relations
and fast forward a couple years afterthat, and here we are in the Medicaid
fights where we have thousands andthousands of people who are at risk for
losing their access to medical care.
And, all the Democrats are unitedthat they wanna protect it.
(14:44):
Almost all the Republicans are against it.
There's only two senators whohave voted to protect it, and
one of 'em is Josh Hawley.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (14:51):
Hmm.
Cynthia Levin (14:52):
So it's just like, I know I won't win all of the issues
with him, but that's an important one.
And we're actually workingtogether on that one.
I mean.
We're not sitting down having latenight coffee and working on it, but it's
like, I'm writing media about Medicaid.
He just wrote an op-ed in theNew York Times, which is just
(15:13):
like blowing people's minds.
So, if I can find any area of agreement, Ifeel like I owe it to the people who need
the help that I should go in and do that.
And I hear from plenty of people whotell me, it's like, well thank God you're
doing that work because I just can't.
(15:34):
And I'm like, great, then you should beprotesting, 'cause I'm not good at that.
I do it, I don't like it, butI am not the best at like,
rallying the call and standing outsideand, you know, doing things like that.
So we each have to findour own ways to do things.
(15:55):
And if my gift is sitting down with peopleat a table and keeping my composure and
helping them bring out their own humanity,then that's what I need to be doing.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (16:09):
That is a really, really inspiring story.
Thank you so much for sharing that.
And what I was hearing in that storyactually relates to a theme that
I was hoping might come out of ourconversation, and that is the theme
of potential, of advocacy as a wayto realize some potential or, as a
(16:41):
way of kind of tapping into potentialoutcomes that maybe we don't tap into
because we're too afraid or because
Cynthia Levin (16:50):
Yeah.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (16:51):
we don't know how to get to the table, to sit down
with someone and have that kind ofconversation, or we're not sure how it
happens to set aside the differencesfor a moment and just be two humans
(17:13):
that share a bond in community.
Cynthia Levin (17:15):
Yeah.
And some of it's just logistical, right?
Because I've been doing thiskind of work the beginning of
the second Trump administration.
I mean, I was doing it beforehand,but you know, I think that we can
look at that as a milestone of likemarking kind of a new era of America.
(17:37):
I've been doing this work since thebeginning of the year where people
started getting alarmed and upset,and if the first Trump administration
taught activists anything, or thebeginning activists anything, they
learned how to make a phone call.
In 2016, I would get a lot of calls,like, it's like, how do I make a phone
call to Congress and what do I say?
(17:59):
Well, a lot of peopleknow how to do this now.
So the phone lines were like, jammedup and then the question became how
do you even get your message through?
And if you had talked to me twodecades ago, I wouldn't have
thought that I would have had thepotential to be in this position.
(18:19):
But because I'd been doing it so long,I had relationships in the office
and I had the direct emails for thespecific aides I wanted to talk to.
What I was doing instead of beingfrustrated on the phone, is I
was setting up Zoom meetings.
And I'm like, we need to talk and we needto look at each other while we're talking.
(18:39):
And they, they allowed me toset up those meetings and, and
bring other people into them.
So, sometimes it's like,how can I even do this?
Because I'm afraid sometimes, like I don'tfeel like I have the education to do it.
But then the third thing is like, itseems really daunting to even think
about having that kind of relationship.
(19:00):
How do you even do those?
All that being said.
That's actually why I wrote thebook that I did several years ago.
I did not know that this was gonna bea book that was so needed at the time.
I released it in 2022 and Ithought, Ah, this would've been
a great thing to have in 2016.
Maybe I just missed the boaton that Trump presidency.
(19:23):
And then I had no idea thiswould be coming back in 2025.
So the book would be even more needed.
The intended audience forthis book is moms of young
children or moms of any kind.
But I have said that it's for mothers andothers who want to learn how to use their
voice to influence policies in the mostimpactful ways and the most efficiently.
(19:46):
So I have some readers who have told methat they don't have any kids, but they're
very busy and they like the fact thatI've put all the instructions in there.
Because I figured moms were busy,so other busy people like it too.
I spent a lot of time convincingmoms, making the case that we do all
(20:06):
have this potential to be powerfuladvocates because we're already
using some of these very importantcharacteristics to raise our children.
And this goes for teachers,caregivers, dads, grandparents.
Things like patience and justa dedication to teaching common
(20:26):
decency to young ones, and empathy.
All of these things feed into ourpotential to be excellent advocates.
I understand that not everybodywants to read a book that has tons of
stories about moms and kids and babies.
Honestly, I think the pictures arepretty cute, but I understand that.
(20:48):
So that's why I have a release of adifferent book, Advocacy Made Easy,
that's targeted toward general audiences.
And it's more of a handbook that letsyou know, like, what are the actual
step by step processes for takingthese advocacy actions like calling
Congress, writing letters to theeditor, having that lobby meeting.
(21:10):
It's gonna be like a slim 60 page bookthat gives you just what you need.
So, hopefully as you brought up thetheme of potential that'll help people
unlock their potential and remove thatbarrier of just not knowing what to do.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (21:25):
Mm-hmm.
So a big part of the audiencefor this podcast are librarians.
Cynthia Levin (21:34):
Yeah.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (21:35):
So for me, the connection and for what I
think is gonna be for many of ourlisteners, the connection is the
challenges that libraries are facing.
Over the past several years, they'vebeen at the front of book bans trying
to defend against book banning.
(21:56):
The challenges that libraries face todayare amplified by Trump administration's
intent to cancel federal grants forlibraries and to defund and dismantle the
Institute for Library and Museum Services,which is the only office that provides
federal funding and support for libraries.
(22:20):
What practical advocacy suggestionswould you like to offer to
librarians and those who supportlibraries in this political climate?
Cynthia Levin (22:31):
Okay, number one, thank you librarians, all you.
Sometimes I would watch those videos orsomething of librarians talking about
trying to keep providing these services.
And my heart just goes out becauseall of us are facing challenges
that we weren't trained for.
(22:51):
This isn't what we signed up for.
Everybody is doing the job that they loveto do and now we're having to fight for
either the jobs that we want or fightfor the people that we wanted to serve.
Actually both of those things.
But the advice that I would give iskind of the advice that I give to people
of any vocation, which is to organize.
(23:14):
We are always strongerwhen we do this together.
So, when you look at my book andto look at the chapter about how
to call Congress or something likethat, yes it's powerful to be able to
call in and make your opinion known.
But let's go back to the beginningof our conversation, where I was
finding out that I could do it andthen I found out that I could be so
(23:37):
much more powerful with my community.
Back then we were talking abouta literal community of neighbors
that lived side by side together.
But your community is the other librarians
I'm gonna ask you, just becauseI'm not in that community myself,
is there an advocacy organizationfor librarians at this point?
Myka Kennedy Stephens (23:58):
So the American Library Association has
a policy and advocacy office inWashington, DC and does a lot of
advocacy work on behalf of the guild.
There are also several organizations,state organizations and even individual
(24:19):
libraries or library consortiums thatdo organized work, lobbying, developing
relationships with their representativesto advocate for funding for libraries.
Cynthia Levin (24:33):
Yeah.
So that's one thing right there byyou doing this podcast and you sharing
that information, you know, maybe thereare some people out there that haven't
connected with those organizations yet.
And I would say you need to.
You need to.
You don't try to go it alone.
Like if I'm working on gunviolence or an issue like that.
(24:55):
I can't possibly know all the billsthat are moving and what's going on.
And the organizations that you namedand talked about, that's what they do.
That's what they're good at.
Offering yourself up as a voice to amplifythat message is really, really important.
There's just a couple of othernotions pop to mind to talk about.
(25:18):
And one is librarians are greatat organizing information.
And I don't think that's a secret.
So, you know, whatever your strengthsare, you know, maybe it's organizing
those thoughts and information to,have a campaign among librarians
to write letters to the editor.
Because there's probably a lot ofpeople that are voters that don't
(25:41):
know the breadth of what you do.
I'm pretty sure that I, know on thesurface what librarians do, but I'm
pretty sure that there's so much morethat I depend on that I don't think of.
So it gets down to storytelling.
You know, if you are writing lettersto the editor that gets in the
newspaper and it does two things.
Number one, if you name your members ofCongress, then that's even more powerful
(26:06):
than a handwritten letter to Congressbecause, the feeds and the artificial
intelligence engines that they'reusing, they're looking for their names
all the time in the news for praiseand for threats and things like that.
But just naming them kind of floatsyour letter to the top of the pile.
(26:27):
Which has more significancethan a handwritten letter,
which is also still important.
And once you have like an op-ed ora letter to the editor, sharing it
with your colleagues in your state,then they can all print that out,
write their opinions about it, andsend it to the members of Congress.
(26:48):
What I try to help people understandis like all these advocacy
actions can build on each other.
So one person gets a letter to the editorand it can spawn 20 people printing it
out, and that's 20 handwritten letters.
And if they send it out on socialmedia, everybody tagging the
members of Congress, then it cango farther and farther that way.
(27:08):
The last thing is not concrete, butit just comes down to creativity
and looking at the resourcesthat you have for yourselves.
I don't have necessarily a story aboutlibrarians to tell, but that was kind
of what happened to me when I was amom that I was looking around going,
I used to be a mechanical engineer,but now I'm just a stay at home mom.
(27:31):
What am I gonna do?
Yeah.
But you know, what I had access towas a lot of kids and a school and
I had a church and I had friendsand I had a lot more resources
than I thought when I began.
And, using my role as a mother and gettingcreative with it allowed us to do things.
(27:54):
We had hundreds and hundredsof Girl Scouts writing letters
about maternal child health.
We had paper dolls and we'd bring inthese chains with hundreds of paper dolls.
I mean, it was quite a visual.
And we sent Valentine's withlots of glitter and glue.
And I was just using theresources that are around me
and being creative in that way.
(28:16):
We brought in a speaker fromUganda to speak to our kids.
They let me bring in thespeaker to all these classes
and have like a huge assembly.
And I was like, wow, is my community.
And we're a lot of voices.
So I don't know what that looks likenecessarily for librarians, but the more
(28:37):
creative and interesting things are likewe can use that power of social media.
National parks are doing agreat job of this right now.
Not that everybody needs to go outand learn how to use TikTok, but
they're being really effective with it.
More so that I thought a bunchof park rangers would be.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (28:54):
I love that sentiment of finding
a use for what you've got.
Just being aware of the resourcesthat you have and making use of them.
So many times I've encountered librariansand others who have a scarcity mindset.
(29:15):
It happens when you're in an institutionor an organizational context where there's
not a lot of money, there's not a lotof funding, or you're short staffed.
People are having to work oneand a half or even two jobs
and being paid one salary.
(29:36):
Being in contexts like that reallydoes encourage this kind of scarcity
mindset of, I don't have anything.
If I had X, then I would beable to do, fill in the blank.
While there is some validity tothat, I think that mindset, that
(29:57):
train of thought can prevent us fromseeing the resources that we do have.
Cynthia Levin (30:04):
Yeah.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (30:05):
And making use of those resources to their fullest,
in the most efficient way possible.
So I really love that example thatyou give of sending your letters to
Congress from hundreds of Girl Scoutsas Valentine's with glitter because
(30:26):
that's what you've got available to you.
There is a power in that that could nothave been realized perhaps if you had
sent a hundred letters from a hundredprofessionals and they were all typeset,
in formal business type with all of thecases in the argument outlined precisely.
Cynthia Levin (30:51):
It is possible that we essentially sent glitter bombs
to Congress and maybe glitter wasall over somebody's desk for months.
Because you know how that is when you haveglitter in your house, it never goes away.
But I think it was morewelcomed than like, you know,
anthrax or something like that.
(31:12):
It's just glitter.
To gain attention in apositive way, that's a trick.
And, it's not like anybody can tellyou exactly what to do because these
moments usually come up, in conversation.
So I'm not sure I couldhave had that idea alone
Myka Kennedy Stephens (31:31):
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Levin (31:31):
for any of those things.
But by organizing and, you know, justgoing back: community, community,
community, that kind of thing.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (31:39):
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Levin (31:40):
Another thing that librarians have, the ones that I've come
across, they usually have libraries withlots of really accessible, great meeting
spaces that are highly tech enabled.
And I have done many letter tothe editor trainings and advocacy
trainings and stuff like that.
So, doing that for yourselvesas well as the community, may
(32:00):
be a very valuable thing to do.
Invite me to do it.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (32:03):
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Levin (32:05):
We can even do it over Zoom, but those meeting rooms are
awesome and I'm not the only person.
I have no corner on themarket of advocacy training.
I learned, all of my skills from thatlong list of organizations that you read
off at the beginning, and there are some,RESULTS definitely comes to the top of
(32:25):
the list, that teach advocacy skills.
Their primary mission is endingpoverty, but secondary and entwined
in that is empowering citizensto use their political power
Myka Kennedy Stephens (32:42):
Hmm.
Cynthia Levin (32:42):
on whatever issue you want to.
So the really good advocacyorganizations, I feel, teach you the
skills and give you that empowermentso you can take it use it for whatever
issue is keeping you up at night.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (32:55):
So something in your writing that's really resonated
with me, and I think this is in someof your more recent blog posts, is how
you explore the range of emotions thatwe bring with us into advocacy work.
And it's a true range.
It can go from anger to grief,to sadness, to even joy.
(33:16):
What practices or habits have youcultivated that help you honor these
emotions and channel them into action?
Cynthia Levin (33:25):
You know, I didn't use to be such a touchy-feely person.
When I was like, a mechanicalengineer and, you know, that wasn't
something that was in the engineeringtraining or something like that.
I do think that being a mom helped bringout those things in myself, and now
it's just, what do you say when you talkto toddlers that are having meltdown?
(33:46):
It's like, wow, we're havingsome big feelings, aren't we?
Maybe we heard that one.
I feel like I'm looking at thecountry going, wow, we're having
some really big feelings, aren't we?
I feel like sometimes people are comingto me and saying like, I am too angry.
I'm too angry to evendo anything about this.
(34:08):
Or when you're sad and overcome withgrief, that is a very difficult swamp to
walk out of to be able to do anything.
So, that's why I decidedto do that series.
And I don't think I'mdone with it right now.
I have grief and anger andjoy that I've written about.
I think despair could probably beone of them or just frustration.
(34:33):
Focusing on your question again.
I'm just trying to address thingsthat people are feeling out
there, and I'm trying to givea nudge to remove the barriers.
If people are feeling that a particularemotion or set of feelings that
they have is shutting them down intoinaction, that's the worst thing.
(34:56):
Because that's what, youknow, project 2025 was about.
What we're seeing is like lot ofattacks on a lot of beloved important
programs all happening at once.
And that can make you feel reallyoverwhelmed, and shut down and just
stop working, and we don't want that.
(35:19):
I got caught up withthe anger one at first.
That was the first one that I wrote.
And I saw a lot of colleaguesin my same space who were
just tipping over to the edge.
And I was thinking about putting outthe second book, and I'm like, I don't
know how I want to be because I feelso angry, but that's not my brand.
(35:39):
Which it seems so crass to put it thatway, because I'm not all about the brand.
I'm trying to have a brand so Ican get it out to more people.
But I want to stay consistent withwhat I've always been talking about,
compassion, kindness, empathy.
How do I reconcile thisanger along with that?
(36:00):
So I ended up reading and getting myselfaligned with some of the teachings of
people like spiritual leader RichardRohr and Gandhi and stuff like that.
And they're like, yes, be angry,but learn to use your anger so
that your anger isn't using you.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (36:20):
Hmm
Cynthia Levin (36:22):
That kind of sounds trite, but I think it's really profound.
Don't let your oppositionuse your anger against you.
Maybe that's a better way to say it.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (36:32):
Yes.
Very important.
Cynthia Levin (36:36):
So that writing is more about how do we use anger?
Can we turn the concept to using anger asfuel more as something that shuts us down?
Myka Kennedy Stephens (36:46):
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Levin (36:47):
I talk about in that blog too, that I have these two
different t-shirts and it's like, whydo I have these two different t-shirts?
That one is from A Wrinkle in Time whereit says, "Stay angry, Meg, you will need
all your anger now." And the other T-shirtthat I like says, "Peace be with you."
I just wear 'em on different daysand recognize that I'm feeling
differently on different days,but these are all a part of me.
(37:08):
And how can I use that righteousanger in a way that's constructive,
that will lead to peace?
Myka Kennedy Stephens (37:16):
Hmm.
Cynthia Levin (37:16):
So that's one of them.
About the grief or despair orthose kinds of negative emotions of
sadness, I think that really doescome down to the self-care aspect.
And I think that we sometimesjust bat that around as drink
some water, get some sleep.
(37:36):
Yeah, that'd be great.
But I'm like so wrapped up in my anxietythat I'm not getting sleep, you know?
I shared some resources about advocacyself-care, but for me a lot of that comes
down to, again, the theme of community.
That if I can't pull myself out of mysadness, then I need to be with that
(37:56):
powerful group that, on the whole, isworking towards something really positive.
I'm just saying it may not be everybody.
So that as a movement we canhelp each other go forward.
I think you mentioned to me that youwanna talk about burnout a little too.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (38:15):
Yeah, that's the next, the next question.
Cynthia Levin (38:18):
Yeah, I think it's all related in here.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (38:20):
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Levin (38:21):
We need to protect ourselves.
Like I also talk about protectingourselves from the internet, like being
really intentional when we're gonnaconsume our news and things like that.
I think this is actually kindof part of the same question.
That's one of my strategies for avoidingburnout is like having those times
where you're going to disconnect.
(38:42):
I'm very lucky.
Outside that window is a park.
So if I just leave my phone away, I'min nature in seconds if I want to be.
But it's also giving ourselves permissionto do something that is going to
intentionally spark joy and delight.
(39:02):
Which seems so trite sometimes.
But there are things thatwill always be joyful to me.
I can't answer this for other people,but I can give you examples for myself.
I love dogs.
I'm not a dog owner and this is not atime of my life that I can have one.
Guaranteed a hundred percent will alwaysinsert a little joy and some breaks for
(39:26):
me is to go down to the animal shelterand go get a dog that needs walk.
And are so happy to see me and I'm sohappy to see them and it's so pure.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (39:38):
Hmm.
Cynthia Levin (39:39):
I love
Myka Kennedy Stephens (39:39):
my
Cynthia Levin (39:39):
children,
Myka Kennedy Stephens (39:40):
you love
Cynthia Levin (39:40):
your children.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (39:42):
When they're
Cynthia Levin (39:42):
teenagers
Myka Kennedy Stephens: they don't always love you. (39:42):
undefined
But I'm
Cynthia Levin (39:44):
telling you, those dogs love you a hundred percent of the time.
So, that's like a guaranteed wayI can bring delight for myself.
I also have a 1980s video gamedownstairs that I just really enjoy.
It's nostalgia and it allows me tokind of shut everything off and I get
(40:08):
into sort of a zen moment of flow.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (40:11):
Hmm.
Cynthia Levin (40:11):
when I'm playing certain games.
I'm 11 years old and on topof my Ms. Pacman game again.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (40:18):
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Levin (40:20):
And these things benefit nobody at all.
There's a favorite LGBTQ activist thatI know named Ben Green, and he writes
about it in a book that he wrote.
It's like, do things that are ofabsolutely no benefit to anyone but
yourself and maybe some friends.
And I think his thing is like playingDungeons and Dragons and unplugging.
(40:42):
These are just examples ofsmall things to remember.
What I also wrote about in my blog aboutjoy, I think is really important in the
view of when you're trying to organizeand bring in activists around you is, when
everybody's feeling really despondent.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (41:03):
Hmm.
Cynthia Levin (41:04):
If we're always very serious and bringing people
into the conversation with howdire everything is, people think
I don't necessarily wanna do that.
I had that at home.
What's point of that?
Myka Kennedy Stephens (41:14):
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Levin (41:15):
I think it was Ruth Bader Ginsburg said, lead, but do it
in a way so that others will follow.
When I am creating events, I'm tryingto not only tell people what the problem
is, but also lift them up in some ways.
And that might just be in theway that I'm welcoming them.
(41:36):
It might be in the place the venue.
Maybe it's in a park like we mentioned,or nature, or again, with the creativity.
If you have to meet in a Daveand Buster's, if you like that
video game thing, do that.
But, finding ways to make it appealingfor us, to lift each other up instead
(41:56):
of like all dragging each other down.
I think it's important to get in touchwith our joy and inner delight in some
way so that we can be that for each other.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (42:09):
Listening to you talk more about this.
It's reminding me of a bookthat I have started reading.
This is the second time I've startedreading it, but it's by Margaret
Wheatley, called Who Do We Choose to Be?
And in that book, she introduces the ideaof creating or building islands of sanity.
(42:34):
When we're in the midst of so much chaos,so much change, where those feelings of
dire consequences and everything'sfalling apart are just so overwhelming.
Being able to create an island ofsanity where there is something
(42:57):
positive happening or you are beingfed in some way where you find your
community and you can support each other.
And yes, all of the chaos, all of thethings that make us angry, all of the
sadness and the grief is still thereon the outside, surrounding the island.
(43:21):
But you can choose, right?
You can choose when you want toengage that, when it's most empowering
to tap into that anger, to tapinto the frustration, to tap into
Cynthia Levin (43:36):
Yeah.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (43:37):
the chaos, and when you need to be
fed by your island of sanity.
Cynthia Levin (43:44):
I mean, maybe there's something in there about,
you know, controlling what you can.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (43:48):
Hmm.
Cynthia Levin (43:48):
Controlling when you engage, controlling when you don't.
There's another activity that I do that,it's sort of interesting in that it's
very much under my control and not,that I'm a volunteer for Make-A-Wish.
I am a Make-A-Wish wish granter,which means that I am in contact with
usually about two families at a time.
I am a volunteer that is indirect contact with the family
(44:12):
to determine what the wish is.
But, it takes a long timeto grant these wishes.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (44:16):
Hmm.
Cynthia Levin (44:17):
I am in charge of sending them wish boosts every month.
It's my job to get to know whatthe kid likes or doesn't like
and just to make them happy.
Now, the lack of control is, I don't knowwhat is going to happen to this child.
That is up to the medicalteam, our Creator.
(44:37):
These are very much out of my control, butwhat I can do is get to know them and just
send little things that are gonna makethem happy and that also makes me happy.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (44:49):
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Levin (44:50):
There's something about like bringing it into a
manageable area, because advocacy is
... we can't predict what's going to happen.
I can't tell you what's gonnahappen in this fight over Medicaid.
I can't tell you what's gonna happento library funding and stuff like that.
(45:11):
It's something that we can'tcontrol, but we can influence.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (45:16):
Hmm.
Cynthia Levin (45:16):
You understand what I mean?
It's like if I totally disengage, then I'mpowerless and I don't have a say in it.
If I do engage, I can influence what'shappening, but at some point, I think
for my own sanity, I also have to let goof the outcome of any particular battle.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (45:37):
Hmm.
Cynthia Levin (45:38):
The USAID issue earlier this year, if you heard about that.
USAID is where most of our foreign aid,humanitarian funding, flows through.
Some goes through the StateDepartment, but USAID was by
far where most of it went.
And, President Trump and Elon Muskwith DOGE came through and in over the
course of days, just dismantled it.
(46:00):
And thousands of workers were out of jobsand life-saving health clinics were just
locked and people couldn't get to them.
That was devastating.
That was probably whenI wrote my grief one.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (46:13):
Hmm.
Cynthia Levin (46:14):
So I continue to fight that fight and like I might be
working on something for nutrition.
I might win that one, but I might losea battle over tuberculosis funding.
We're just trying to like getthese scraps back as we go.
In order for me to exist as a wholeperson, I have to tap into some sort
(46:36):
of zen place where I can keep fightingthe fight, but not have my whole
being attached to one specific bill inlegislation and see this is a continuum.
This is a time we're living through.
There have been bad timesin the United States.
You and I aren't used to them.
We're too young.
(46:56):
We didn't have some of thewars and challenges and we
didn't live through Vietnam.
We weren't here for it.
So we are unpracticed.
There's a phrase for malaria ifyou haven't had malaria in an area.
They call it a malaria naive area.
I think
Myka Kennedy Stephens (47:12):
Um.
Cynthia Levin (47:15):
we are naive in this area, but we need to wise up real fast.
But also give myself permissionto not be responsible.
Not take it on as a personalfailing if one particular piece
of legislation doesn't go through.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (47:34):
That is so, so wise, so very wise,
Cynthia Levin (47:38):
Let's see if I can do it.
I try all the time.
Since you have video, this is visible.
I can see on the screen.
There's something else that I do.
And this probably is not self-care.
This is anger management,but not self-care.
I was so angry the other day.
I am like retired from TaeKwonDo,but I still have all the equipment in
(48:00):
my basement and I was so angry thatI let loose with, over a thousand
punches into a wave master, whichis like a heavy bag, and I just
punched all the skin off my knuckles.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (48:11):
Wow.
Cynthia Levin (48:11):
So that was not healthcare for my skin, but it like
helped me manage my anger at the time.
So there's physical evidencethat, that I'm a peaceful
person, but I also get angry.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (48:26):
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Levin (48:27):
So what a conversation.
We should just all watchInside Out 2 after this.
Talk about all our emotions.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (48:37):
Well, Cynthia, this has been a great conversation.
You've already shared a lot about what'scoming up in your next book, Advocacy
Made Easy (48:47):
the Handbook for Turning Civic Frustration into Powerful Action.
Is there anything else that youwant to share with us that we
can look forward to in this book?
Cynthia Levin (48:59):
Yeah.
Just to describe it again.
This is something that I saw thatwas needed for general audiences
that I'm usually talking tomoms and parents, caregivers.
But in 2025, it just seems like everybodycould use the refresher if you have done
it before, or just to know these skills.
(49:20):
It's a handbook.
It's gonna be around 60pages or something like that.
My goal is that it's inexpensive,so that's not a barrier for anybody.
It will also be availableas an e-reader type thing.
I am going to tell you that itwould be impossible to put every
kind of advocacy action availableto us inside a 60 page book.
(49:42):
That's just not possible.
So the ones that I have presented arethe ones that I think are most suited for
exchange of ideas and things like that.
Which, again, I think it is veryimportant to have protests in the
streets and to do that kind of thing.
The kind of advocacy that I'm talkingabout is that bridge building kind of
(50:05):
thing, and where the exchange of ideascan come from, writing for media, or
writing a handwritten letter, or sittingdown a meeting and things like that.
So, if you want to learn howto organize a protest, that's
going to be a different book.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (50:23):
Hmm.
Cynthia Levin (50:24):
If you want to learn how to work within the system that we have and
to try to actually contact the people whoare currently in power, this is that book.
What I say in the beginning of itis that I know things are hard and I
know that we feel powerless sometimes.
Going back to what I saidbefore, it's like you can't
(50:47):
predict what's going to happen.
Like I can't say that if you take all theactions in this book that you will win.
Hopefully it gets it farther down thegoal and it can teach you how to organize
and how to teach others these skills.
Because we need a lot more people, likewe said, there's a lot more attacks
(51:07):
coming from a lot more directions, soif we don't wanna burn out totally,
we need to bring in more people.
So this is a tool to help that.
I can't tell you if you do all of this,that you'll win on your particular issue.
But I will tell you that if youdo some of the things in this
book, you will feel better.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (51:27):
Hmm.
Cynthia Levin (51:27):
Less powerless.
And you'll feel like you did somethingin the time that we have here.
Because there are people that are kind ofsitting out, resisting what's going on.
But this is the only time thatwe have to make any change.
(51:51):
And isn't it wonderful that we arehere on the earth at the same time?
Myka Kennedy Stephens (51:55):
Hmm.
Cynthia Levin (51:55):
That we can work together on it.
That is the crux of it.
It's concrete, step-by-step instructionsto do these things, to better
share ideas, and to make you feelmore powerful and less frustrated.
That's what it's about.
It should be out this summer and I wishI could share my cover art and stuff like
(52:16):
that, but that's still being worked on.
But I'm so glad we got thechance to talk about it now.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (52:22):
Sure, and you know I'll be sure to put links to your
website, to your current book, yourblog, all in the show notes, and folks
can watch those and learn about your newbook when it's released, and maybe even
follow you on social media and see thecover when you're able to post it there.
Cynthia Levin (52:47):
Absolutely.
That's the best way.
If you're interested in knowing whenit comes out, the best thing to do is
to go to my website, www.changyit.com,which will be in the show notes and
there is a newsletter sign up thatyou can get my monthly e-newsletter.
You'll be among the first to know.
And each newsletter always hasan easy advocacy action that you
(53:09):
can take on a variety of issues.
So yeah, thanks for sharingall that good stuff.
I hope to see some of yourlisteners on social media.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (53:19):
Well, thank you so much for your time today and
for such a wonderful conversation.
I really do appreciate the work thatyou do and I appreciate you sharing
your wisdom and your encouragementwith me and with my listeners.
Cynthia Levin (53:38):
It's great to be here.
Thank you, Myka.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (53:42):
I hope you've enjoyed listening in on my conversation
with Cynthia Changyit Levin.
I hope you feel empowered andinspired to take part in advocacy
work on behalf of your community.
Links to Cynthia's website, book andnewsletter are in the show notes,
and I invite you to watch for her newbook coming out later this summer.
If you would like to stay connectedwith me and Fosgail, please sign up
(54:04):
for our monthly newsletter, FieldNotes, if you have not already.
It includes prompts for reflection.
The latest from our blog andpodcast, upcoming opportunities
and behind the scenes news andmiscellanea from the Fosgail team.
You might also considerjoining the Fosgail community.
It's a membership platform thatprovides a space for discussion,
(54:25):
encouragement, inspiration, and support.
The always open, forever free tier is opento anyone who is looking for a safe and
supportive space to explore the challengesof leadership in uncertain times and
cultivating professional wellbeing.
This could be a great place to brainstormwith like-minded professionals about
(54:45):
advocacy efforts in our communities,including our libraries, museums,
and other organizations strugglingin this current political climate.
Links to join the communityand sign up for the newsletter
are also in the show notes.
Thank you for joining us for thisepisode of the Fosgail Mindset.
Please do subscribe using your favoritepodcast providers so that you can receive
(55:08):
new episodes as soon as we drop them.
Until next time, I hope youfind open possibilities.
Welcome to the fifth episode of the Fosgail Mindset.
I'm your host, Myka Kennedy Stephens.
This is a special extendedpodcast episode with author and
activist Cynthia Changyit Levin.
I caught up with her on May 20th,2025 to talk about the importance
of advocacy work, how to engage inadvocacy, and how to be an activist
(00:37):
while also attending to wellbeing inthe midst of chaos and uncertainty.
I came away from our conversation inspiredand hopeful, and I hope you do as well.
Hi everyone.
Welcome to the Fosgail Mindset.
Today I am joined by an old friend, old in the fact that we've known
(01:01):
each other a long time, a long timefriend, Cynthia Changyit Levin.
Levin is the author of FromChanging Diapers to Changing
the World (01:12):
Why Moms Make Great Advocates and How To Get Started.
And she's also got an upcoming handbooktitled Advocacy Made Easy, that will
be launching this summer in 2025.
A non-partisan activist working acrossa variety of issues, Levin coaches
(01:33):
volunteers of all ages to build productiverelationships with members of Congress.
She advocated side by side with her twochildren from their toddler to teen years,
and crafted a new approach to advocacybased on her strengths as a mother.
She's currently a volunteer withRESULTS, the One campaign, Bread for
(01:54):
the World, CARE, Moms Demand Action forGun Sense in America, MomsRising, and
the UN Foundation's Shot@Life Campaign.
Thank you so much forjoining me today, Cynthia.
Cynthia Levin (02:09):
It is my pleasure and I listened to you, you know, reading off
all of those things, but you and I kneweach other before any of that happened,
and I was just learning to become anactivist and you were around for some of
the very first actions I ever organized.
So this is really funto be with you today.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (02:28):
Yes, yes.
I remember bringing my children to yourhouse for a letter writing campaign.
I think you were volunteeringfor RESULTS at the time.
Cynthia Levin (02:39):
Yeah,
Myka Kennedy Stephens (02:39):
And we came over to your house.
We'd only been in the neighborhoodfor about two months, I think.
And,
Cynthia Levin (02:46):
Yeah.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (02:48):
you know, it was just, Hey, come over let's,
we're gonna have snacks and we'regonna write letters and draw pictures
and advocate for fair housing and,
Cynthia Levin (03:01):
Something like that.
I'm
Myka Kennedy Stephens (03:02):
yeah.
Cynthia Levin (03:03):
related if it was RESULTS, but you didn't see that coming to have a
quick invite to a political action withyour kids, but you were down for it.
You were game, and it was great.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (03:13):
Yes.
That was quite a long time agowhen our kids were in preschool.
Cynthia Levin (03:18):
Are we going to date ourselves?
We probably should.
Just for context.
Yeah.
We have a college freshman,well, college sophomore now.
'cause they just finished up 19-year-olds.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (03:30):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
They, they've grown up, haven't they?
So, how did you become involved inadvocacy and lobbying work and what's
kept you engaged in it for so long?
Cynthia Levin (03:45):
It would've been right around that time that we met
when I was first getting involved.
The first time that anybody askedme to write a letter, much like
I asked you to write a letter toCongress, was at my church and it
would've been before I had kids.
My church was involved with a groupcalled Bread for the World, and Bread for
(04:08):
the World Churches will once a year dowhat they call an offering of letters.
You know, usually you think of anoffering at a church or a synagogue
or something as like offering money.
But Bread for the World askspeople to write letters to
Congress about hunger specifically.
You get some education on it andthey tell you how to write a letter.
(04:29):
My church, the volunteers were very sneakyand they would actually bake bread in
the church during the church service.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (04:37):
Oh wow.
Cynthia Levin (04:37):
So you would be sitting there and then you would smell this
wonderful smell going, and then theywould come up and say, "you can have
some bread when you write your letters."And you're like, okay, what do I have
to write to get to get that bread?
But that was the firsttime I ever took an action.
And then, fast forward a littlebit to when I had my first child.
(05:00):
2003 is when my child was born.
And I discovered something.
Just fun fact about my body, is thatmy milk doesn't come in for a while.
And now having kids, thatis just what happens to me.
It doesn't necessarily happen toeverybody, but I was so focused on
being what I thought was a good mom,that I wanted to breastfeed only.
(05:23):
And, unintentionally wasdepriving my child of nutrients.
And, four days into Yara's lifethings were not going well.
And I called my doctorand just really upset.
She was like, calm down.
You just need to get some formula intothat baby and everything's gonna be fine.
But effectively the baby was starvingand I didn't quit because I was so
(05:47):
focused on trying to do the right thing.
So Christmas Eve, husband runs out toCVS, we get some formula, little water.
Boom, baby's fine.
But then I started thinking about allthe moms around the world that don't
even have clean water, much less a quickpharmacy to get to, or a doctor to call.
(06:07):
That was sort of the inkling howI started thinking about that.
It would be a few years later beforesomebody encouraged me to go to Washington
DC to take more actions besides makingphone calls and writing letters.
Which by the way, are wonderful thingsto do when you have a newborn because
they wake you up at all hours of thenight and then you're wide awake.
(06:29):
And, sometimes calling, an answeringmachine of a member of Congress or
just writing a letter would like,help me settle down from those
weird 2:00 AM thoughts of like, oh,there's all these children everywhere
in the world that are dying.
It's like, well, I coulddo something about it.
So that was kind of the, thebeginnings of everything.
About the time you came around, I wasstarting to take things to the next
(06:52):
level of inviting my friends to do it.
And, getting to the other part ofyour question of like what keeps me
involved, it's the involvement withthese organizations and being with
like-minded people that share a visionof what the world can be like and
are taking real actions to do it.
I think there's nothingelse more inspiring for me
(07:13):
than my fellow volunteers.
And, when my friends joined in,that was really empowering too
to see that my efforts were beingmultiplied through your actions.
Things like that happeningover and over, over the years
that, that keeps me involved.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (07:31):
That's beautiful.
I see in that a really special connectionfor the people that you're advocating for.
They're actual people for you,is what it sounds like to me.
I mean, you identify withthem, you relate to them.
They're not just statistics.
Cynthia Levin (07:51):
Yeah, when I started I was, you know, doing this for
moms in those nebulous othercountries that, didn't have as much.
And I didn't think that I'dever meet them, probably.
So it was just sort of an extensionof my imagination from statistics.
But a funny thing happenedalong the way is that I did
(08:14):
start meeting them at one point.
I got an invitation from theUnited Nations Foundation.
They knew of my work with RESULTS,and they had a program where they
brought several moms of young kidsto Uganda to meet moms of young kids
who were receiving services throughUNICEF and through translators we would
(08:37):
speak to them and talk about that.
So that was a really special timefor me around 2012 or something
like that, where that kind ofcame to fruition and became real.
Another thing that happenedwas that I branched out.
I realized that I couldn'tignore the poverty in my own
country in the United States.
(08:58):
So I started doing work, alsothrough RESULTS and Bread for the
World, on programs like SNAP, theSupplemental Nutrition Assistance
Program, WIC, the Women Infants andChildren program, Renters, I think
you mentioned that we might've beendoing something on housing back then.
And then it becomes very, veryreal because these are the friends
(09:19):
and neighbors in your area.
Like when we sent our kids to publicschool, there were kids on SNAP.
And so there are people that are in ourcommunity and now I have many friends that
are advocates that I'm fighting for them.
And I've made friends who areadvocates in the community
working on disability advocacy.
(09:41):
There's a woman who's talkedabout in my book, her name is
Elena Hung, and I tell her story.
I have profiles of differentmoms and guess what?
Here we are in 2025 and we'refighting for Medicaid again.
And when I take actions on Medicaid,I am thinking directly about
Elena and her daughter Ziamara.
(10:02):
It is not a faceless thing.
Their faces are beautifuland I'm fighting for them.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (10:08):
Mm-hmm.
As you mentioned, the political landscapeis much different now than it was when you
started in this work over 15 years ago.
Cynthia Levin (10:20):
It is like those memes they say, it's like "she didn't
know it, but [laughter] this isgoing to be really important later!"
Myka Kennedy Stephens (10:28):
Right, you've described yourself in your writing as
a peaceful person and a bridge builder,and those are two cornerstones of
your signature approach to advocacy.
How have those cornerstones beentested as we've seen the US political
environment become more polarized?
Cynthia Levin (10:50):
Yeah.
I'm gonna start this by saying thatwe need all kinds of activists, and
sometimes bridges need to be burnt.
But for me, it is my nature to be abridge builder and a peaceful person.
It's sometimes not the most popularkind of activism that you see out there.
(11:11):
Through my work, I've seen just incrediblethings happen when activists go in
and talk to people who might thinkincredibly different things than they do.
But narrowing down on one issue andspeaking human to human, and minds
being changed, I think that thisis what's needed more than ever on
(11:36):
a level not only just constituentto member of Congress, but on our
level, on the person to person level.
I also find the closer theperson is to you who disagrees
with you, the harder it is.
And there's probably people listening onthis podcast who are at political odds
(11:58):
with their families and, I find thatthat is probably the hardest of all.
When I talk to my members ofCongress, I'm not their best friend.
We have a professional relationshipand stuff like that, but we're
not like going out for a beerafterwards or anything like that.
It's like we have jobs to do.
They have in their mind what they need todo, and I have in mind what I need to do.
(12:22):
And we sit down and we are professionalfor the duration of that conversation.
Probably my most controversial blog Iever wrote was, I think it had a title,
something like, Can You Set AsideYour Differences for Five Minutes?
Myka Kennedy Stephens (12:35):
Hmm.
Cynthia Levin (12:35):
And it was about this kind of thing because that particular
blog was about some work that I wasdoing with Senator Josh Hawley's office.
Many people know of Josh Hawley, if theydo around the country for his signature,
famous picture from January 6th with hisarm up raised cheering on the rioters.
(12:56):
I'm never gonna agree with him onthat, and he's probably not gonna
agree with what I think on that issue.
But what I am there for when I go into hisoffice is to talk about people in poverty.
And sometimes I'm talking aboutglobal poverty for people who
have never even heard of hisname and have no idea who he is.
(13:16):
But I feel like my reasons for doing thisare bigger than my disagreements with him.
And they have to be.
Your why has to be bigger than youraversion to talking to somebody
who's in opposition to you.
So some surprising thingshappened along the way.
(13:36):
I would meet with him.
I had some photo ops with himwhere we would talk about different
things and I took some veryfriendly looking pictures with him.
And, you know, the big picturethat came from that blog was I was
playing rock paper scissors with himbecause I just, I had had many stiff
formal pictures that I was like,this isn't really going anywhere.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna askhim to do something silly.
(13:58):
And I was like, would youplay rock, paper, scissors?
And he is like, uh, yeah.
Okay.
And we both came up with scissors and wewere both really surprised in that moment.
And so the look of surprise anddelight on our faces is there.
And he was like, do you wanna do it again?
I'm like, no, no.
We agreed on something.
So let's just let thepicture stand like that.
(14:21):
But I became memorable in the officefor that, and that's helped relations
and fast forward a couple years afterthat, and here we are in the Medicaid
fights where we have thousands andthousands of people who are at risk for
losing their access to medical care.
And, all the Democrats are unitedthat they wanna protect it.
(14:44):
Almost all the Republicans are against it.
There's only two senators whohave voted to protect it, and
one of 'em is Josh Hawley.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (14:51):
Hmm.
Cynthia Levin (14:52):
So it's just like, I know I won't win all of the issues
with him, but that's an important one.
And we're actually workingtogether on that one.
I mean.
We're not sitting down having latenight coffee and working on it, but it's
like, I'm writing media about Medicaid.
He just wrote an op-ed in theNew York Times, which is just
(15:13):
like blowing people's minds.
So, if I can find any area of agreement, Ifeel like I owe it to the people who need
the help that I should go in and do that.
And I hear from plenty of people whotell me, it's like, well thank God you're
doing that work because I just can't.
(15:34):
And I'm like, great, then you should beprotesting, 'cause I'm not good at that.
I do it, I don't like it, butI am not the best at like,
rallying the call and standing outsideand, you know, doing things like that.
So we each have to findour own ways to do things.
(15:55):
And if my gift is sitting down with peopleat a table and keeping my composure and
helping them bring out their own humanity,then that's what I need to be doing.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (16:09):
That is a really, really inspiring story.
Thank you so much for sharing that.
And what I was hearing in that storyactually relates to a theme that
I was hoping might come out of ourconversation, and that is the theme
of potential, of advocacy as a wayto realize some potential or, as a
(16:41):
way of kind of tapping into potentialoutcomes that maybe we don't tap into
because we're too afraid or because
Cynthia Levin (16:50):
Yeah.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (16:51):
we don't know how to get to the table, to sit down
with someone and have that kind ofconversation, or we're not sure how it
happens to set aside the differencesfor a moment and just be two humans
(17:13):
that share a bond in community.
Cynthia Levin (17:15):
Yeah.
And some of it's just logistical, right?
Because I've been doing thiskind of work the beginning of
the second Trump administration.
I mean, I was doing it beforehand,but you know, I think that we can
look at that as a milestone of likemarking kind of a new era of America.
(17:37):
I've been doing this work since thebeginning of the year where people
started getting alarmed and upset,and if the first Trump administration
taught activists anything, or thebeginning activists anything, they
learned how to make a phone call.
In 2016, I would get a lot of calls,like, it's like, how do I make a phone
call to Congress and what do I say?
(17:59):
Well, a lot of peopleknow how to do this now.
So the phone lines were like, jammedup and then the question became how
do you even get your message through?
And if you had talked to me twodecades ago, I wouldn't have
thought that I would have had thepotential to be in this position.
(18:19):
But because I'd been doing it so long,I had relationships in the office
and I had the direct emails for thespecific aides I wanted to talk to.
What I was doing instead of beingfrustrated on the phone, is I
was setting up Zoom meetings.
And I'm like, we need to talk and we needto look at each other while we're talking.
(18:39):
And they, they allowed me toset up those meetings and, and
bring other people into them.
So, sometimes it's like,how can I even do this?
Because I'm afraid sometimes, like I don'tfeel like I have the education to do it.
But then the third thing is like, itseems really daunting to even think
about having that kind of relationship.
(19:00):
How do you even do those?
All that being said.
That's actually why I wrote thebook that I did several years ago.
I did not know that this was gonna bea book that was so needed at the time.
I released it in 2022 and Ithought, Ah, this would've been
a great thing to have in 2016.
Maybe I just missed the boaton that Trump presidency.
(19:23):
And then I had no idea thiswould be coming back in 2025.
So the book would be even more needed.
The intended audience forthis book is moms of young
children or moms of any kind.
But I have said that it's for mothers andothers who want to learn how to use their
voice to influence policies in the mostimpactful ways and the most efficiently.
(19:46):
So I have some readers who have told methat they don't have any kids, but they're
very busy and they like the fact thatI've put all the instructions in there.
Because I figured moms were busy,so other busy people like it too.
I spent a lot of time convincingmoms, making the case that we do all
(20:06):
have this potential to be powerfuladvocates because we're already
using some of these very importantcharacteristics to raise our children.
And this goes for teachers,caregivers, dads, grandparents.
Things like patience and justa dedication to teaching common
(20:26):
decency to young ones, and empathy.
All of these things feed into ourpotential to be excellent advocates.
I understand that not everybodywants to read a book that has tons of
stories about moms and kids and babies.
Honestly, I think the pictures arepretty cute, but I understand that.
(20:48):
So that's why I have a release of adifferent book, Advocacy Made Easy,
that's targeted toward general audiences.
And it's more of a handbook that letsyou know, like, what are the actual
step by step processes for takingthese advocacy actions like calling
Congress, writing letters to theeditor, having that lobby meeting.
(21:10):
It's gonna be like a slim 60 page bookthat gives you just what you need.
So, hopefully as you brought up thetheme of potential that'll help people
unlock their potential and remove thatbarrier of just not knowing what to do.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (21:25):
Mm-hmm.
So a big part of the audiencefor this podcast are librarians.
Cynthia Levin (21:34):
Yeah.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (21:35):
So for me, the connection and for what I
think is gonna be for many of ourlisteners, the connection is the
challenges that libraries are facing.
Over the past several years, they'vebeen at the front of book bans trying
to defend against book banning.
(21:56):
The challenges that libraries face todayare amplified by Trump administration's
intent to cancel federal grants forlibraries and to defund and dismantle the
Institute for Library and Museum Services,which is the only office that provides
federal funding and support for libraries.
(22:20):
What practical advocacy suggestionswould you like to offer to
librarians and those who supportlibraries in this political climate?
Cynthia Levin (22:31):
Okay, number one, thank you librarians, all you.
Sometimes I would watch those videos orsomething of librarians talking about
trying to keep providing these services.
And my heart just goes out becauseall of us are facing challenges
that we weren't trained for.
(22:51):
This isn't what we signed up for.
Everybody is doing the job that they loveto do and now we're having to fight for
either the jobs that we want or fightfor the people that we wanted to serve.
Actually both of those things.
But the advice that I would give iskind of the advice that I give to people
of any vocation, which is to organize.
(23:14):
We are always strongerwhen we do this together.
So, when you look at my book andto look at the chapter about how
to call Congress or something likethat, yes it's powerful to be able to
call in and make your opinion known.
But let's go back to the beginningof our conversation, where I was
finding out that I could do it andthen I found out that I could be so
(23:37):
much more powerful with my community.
Back then we were talking abouta literal community of neighbors
that lived side by side together.
But your community is the other librarians
I'm gonna ask you, just becauseI'm not in that community myself,
is there an advocacy organizationfor librarians at this point?
Myka Kennedy Stephens (23:58):
So the American Library Association has
a policy and advocacy office inWashington, DC and does a lot of
advocacy work on behalf of the guild.
There are also several organizations,state organizations and even individual
(24:19):
libraries or library consortiums thatdo organized work, lobbying, developing
relationships with their representativesto advocate for funding for libraries.
Cynthia Levin (24:33):
Yeah.
So that's one thing right there byyou doing this podcast and you sharing
that information, you know, maybe thereare some people out there that haven't
connected with those organizations yet.
And I would say you need to.
You need to.
You don't try to go it alone.
Like if I'm working on gunviolence or an issue like that.
(24:55):
I can't possibly know all the billsthat are moving and what's going on.
And the organizations that you namedand talked about, that's what they do.
That's what they're good at.
Offering yourself up as a voice to amplifythat message is really, really important.
There's just a couple of othernotions pop to mind to talk about.
(25:18):
And one is librarians are greatat organizing information.
And I don't think that's a secret.
So, you know, whatever your strengthsare, you know, maybe it's organizing
those thoughts and information to,have a campaign among librarians
to write letters to the editor.
Because there's probably a lot ofpeople that are voters that don't
(25:41):
know the breadth of what you do.
I'm pretty sure that I, know on thesurface what librarians do, but I'm
pretty sure that there's so much morethat I depend on that I don't think of.
So it gets down to storytelling.
You know, if you are writing lettersto the editor that gets in the
newspaper and it does two things.
Number one, if you name your members ofCongress, then that's even more powerful
(26:06):
than a handwritten letter to Congressbecause, the feeds and the artificial
intelligence engines that they'reusing, they're looking for their names
all the time in the news for praiseand for threats and things like that.
But just naming them kind of floatsyour letter to the top of the pile.
(26:27):
Which has more significancethan a handwritten letter,
which is also still important.
And once you have like an op-ed ora letter to the editor, sharing it
with your colleagues in your state,then they can all print that out,
write their opinions about it, andsend it to the members of Congress.
(26:48):
What I try to help people understandis like all these advocacy
actions can build on each other.
So one person gets a letter to the editorand it can spawn 20 people printing it
out, and that's 20 handwritten letters.
And if they send it out on socialmedia, everybody tagging the
members of Congress, then it cango farther and farther that way.
(27:08):
The last thing is not concrete, butit just comes down to creativity
and looking at the resourcesthat you have for yourselves.
I don't have necessarily a story aboutlibrarians to tell, but that was kind
of what happened to me when I was amom that I was looking around going,
I used to be a mechanical engineer,but now I'm just a stay at home mom.
(27:31):
What am I gonna do?
Yeah.
But you know, what I had access towas a lot of kids and a school and
I had a church and I had friendsand I had a lot more resources
than I thought when I began.
And, using my role as a mother and gettingcreative with it allowed us to do things.
(27:54):
We had hundreds and hundredsof Girl Scouts writing letters
about maternal child health.
We had paper dolls and we'd bring inthese chains with hundreds of paper dolls.
I mean, it was quite a visual.
And we sent Valentine's withlots of glitter and glue.
And I was just using theresources that are around me
and being creative in that way.
(28:16):
We brought in a speaker fromUganda to speak to our kids.
They let me bring in thespeaker to all these classes
and have like a huge assembly.
And I was like, wow, is my community.
And we're a lot of voices.
So I don't know what that looks likenecessarily for librarians, but the more
(28:37):
creative and interesting things are likewe can use that power of social media.
National parks are doing agreat job of this right now.
Not that everybody needs to go outand learn how to use TikTok, but
they're being really effective with it.
More so that I thought a bunchof park rangers would be.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (28:54):
I love that sentiment of finding
a use for what you've got.
Just being aware of the resourcesthat you have and making use of them.
So many times I've encountered librariansand others who have a scarcity mindset.
(29:15):
It happens when you're in an institutionor an organizational context where there's
not a lot of money, there's not a lotof funding, or you're short staffed.
People are having to work oneand a half or even two jobs
and being paid one salary.
(29:36):
Being in contexts like that reallydoes encourage this kind of scarcity
mindset of, I don't have anything.
If I had X, then I would beable to do, fill in the blank.
While there is some validity tothat, I think that mindset, that
(29:57):
train of thought can prevent us fromseeing the resources that we do have.
Cynthia Levin (30:04):
Yeah.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (30:05):
And making use of those resources to their fullest,
in the most efficient way possible.
So I really love that example thatyou give of sending your letters to
Congress from hundreds of Girl Scoutsas Valentine's with glitter because
(30:26):
that's what you've got available to you.
There is a power in that that could nothave been realized perhaps if you had
sent a hundred letters from a hundredprofessionals and they were all typeset,
in formal business type with all of thecases in the argument outlined precisely.
Cynthia Levin (30:51):
It is possible that we essentially sent glitter bombs
to Congress and maybe glitter wasall over somebody's desk for months.
Because you know how that is when you haveglitter in your house, it never goes away.
But I think it was morewelcomed than like, you know,
anthrax or something like that.
(31:12):
It's just glitter.
To gain attention in apositive way, that's a trick.
And, it's not like anybody can tellyou exactly what to do because these
moments usually come up, in conversation.
So I'm not sure I couldhave had that idea alone
Myka Kennedy Stephens (31:31):
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Levin (31:31):
for any of those things.
But by organizing and, you know, justgoing back: community, community,
community, that kind of thing.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (31:39):
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Levin (31:40):
Another thing that librarians have, the ones that I've come
across, they usually have libraries withlots of really accessible, great meeting
spaces that are highly tech enabled.
And I have done many letter tothe editor trainings and advocacy
trainings and stuff like that.
So, doing that for yourselvesas well as the community, may
(32:00):
be a very valuable thing to do.
Invite me to do it.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (32:03):
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Levin (32:05):
We can even do it over Zoom, but those meeting rooms are
awesome and I'm not the only person.
I have no corner on themarket of advocacy training.
I learned, all of my skills from thatlong list of organizations that you read
off at the beginning, and there are some,RESULTS definitely comes to the top of
(32:25):
the list, that teach advocacy skills.
Their primary mission is endingpoverty, but secondary and entwined
in that is empowering citizensto use their political power
Myka Kennedy Stephens (32:42):
Hmm.
Cynthia Levin (32:42):
on whatever issue you want to.
So the really good advocacyorganizations, I feel, teach you the
skills and give you that empowermentso you can take it use it for whatever
issue is keeping you up at night.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (32:55):
So something in your writing that's really resonated
with me, and I think this is in someof your more recent blog posts, is how
you explore the range of emotions thatwe bring with us into advocacy work.
And it's a true range.
It can go from anger to grief,to sadness, to even joy.
(33:16):
What practices or habits have youcultivated that help you honor these
emotions and channel them into action?
Cynthia Levin (33:25):
You know, I didn't use to be such a touchy-feely person.
When I was like, a mechanicalengineer and, you know, that wasn't
something that was in the engineeringtraining or something like that.
I do think that being a mom helped bringout those things in myself, and now
it's just, what do you say when you talkto toddlers that are having meltdown?
(33:46):
It's like, wow, we're havingsome big feelings, aren't we?
Maybe we heard that one.
I feel like I'm looking at thecountry going, wow, we're having
some really big feelings, aren't we?
I feel like sometimes people are comingto me and saying like, I am too angry.
I'm too angry to evendo anything about this.
(34:08):
Or when you're sad and overcome withgrief, that is a very difficult swamp to
walk out of to be able to do anything.
So, that's why I decidedto do that series.
And I don't think I'mdone with it right now.
I have grief and anger andjoy that I've written about.
I think despair could probably beone of them or just frustration.
(34:33):
Focusing on your question again.
I'm just trying to address thingsthat people are feeling out
there, and I'm trying to givea nudge to remove the barriers.
If people are feeling that a particularemotion or set of feelings that
they have is shutting them down intoinaction, that's the worst thing.
(34:56):
Because that's what, youknow, project 2025 was about.
What we're seeing is like lot ofattacks on a lot of beloved important
programs all happening at once.
And that can make you feel reallyoverwhelmed, and shut down and just
stop working, and we don't want that.
(35:19):
I got caught up withthe anger one at first.
That was the first one that I wrote.
And I saw a lot of colleaguesin my same space who were
just tipping over to the edge.
And I was thinking about putting outthe second book, and I'm like, I don't
know how I want to be because I feelso angry, but that's not my brand.
(35:39):
Which it seems so crass to put it thatway, because I'm not all about the brand.
I'm trying to have a brand so Ican get it out to more people.
But I want to stay consistent withwhat I've always been talking about,
compassion, kindness, empathy.
How do I reconcile thisanger along with that?
(36:00):
So I ended up reading and getting myselfaligned with some of the teachings of
people like spiritual leader RichardRohr and Gandhi and stuff like that.
And they're like, yes, be angry,but learn to use your anger so
that your anger isn't using you.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (36:20):
Hmm
Cynthia Levin (36:22):
That kind of sounds trite, but I think it's really profound.
Don't let your oppositionuse your anger against you.
Maybe that's a better way to say it.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (36:32):
Yes.
Very important.
Cynthia Levin (36:36):
So that writing is more about how do we use anger?
Can we turn the concept to using anger asfuel more as something that shuts us down?
Myka Kennedy Stephens (36:46):
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Levin (36:47):
I talk about in that blog too, that I have these two
different t-shirts and it's like, whydo I have these two different t-shirts?
That one is from A Wrinkle in Time whereit says, "Stay angry, Meg, you will need
all your anger now." And the other T-shirtthat I like says, "Peace be with you."
I just wear 'em on different daysand recognize that I'm feeling
differently on different days,but these are all a part of me.
(37:08):
And how can I use that righteousanger in a way that's constructive,
that will lead to peace?
Myka Kennedy Stephens (37:16):
Hmm.
Cynthia Levin (37:16):
So that's one of them.
About the grief or despair orthose kinds of negative emotions of
sadness, I think that really doescome down to the self-care aspect.
And I think that we sometimesjust bat that around as drink
some water, get some sleep.
(37:36):
Yeah, that'd be great.
But I'm like so wrapped up in my anxietythat I'm not getting sleep, you know?
I shared some resources about advocacyself-care, but for me a lot of that comes
down to, again, the theme of community.
That if I can't pull myself out of mysadness, then I need to be with that
(37:56):
powerful group that, on the whole, isworking towards something really positive.
I'm just saying it may not be everybody.
So that as a movement we canhelp each other go forward.
I think you mentioned to me that youwanna talk about burnout a little too.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (38:15):
Yeah, that's the next, the next question.
Cynthia Levin (38:18):
Yeah, I think it's all related in here.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (38:20):
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Levin (38:21):
We need to protect ourselves.
Like I also talk about protectingourselves from the internet, like being
really intentional when we're gonnaconsume our news and things like that.
I think this is actually kindof part of the same question.
That's one of my strategies for avoidingburnout is like having those times
where you're going to disconnect.
(38:42):
I'm very lucky.
Outside that window is a park.
So if I just leave my phone away, I'min nature in seconds if I want to be.
But it's also giving ourselves permissionto do something that is going to
intentionally spark joy and delight.
(39:02):
Which seems so trite sometimes.
But there are things thatwill always be joyful to me.
I can't answer this for other people,but I can give you examples for myself.
I love dogs.
I'm not a dog owner and this is not atime of my life that I can have one.
Guaranteed a hundred percent will alwaysinsert a little joy and some breaks for
(39:26):
me is to go down to the animal shelterand go get a dog that needs walk.
And are so happy to see me and I'm sohappy to see them and it's so pure.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (39:38):
Hmm.
Cynthia Levin (39:39):
I love
Myka Kennedy Stephens (39:39):
my
Cynthia Levin (39:39):
children,
Myka Kennedy Stephens (39:40):
you love
Cynthia Levin (39:40):
your children.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (39:42):
When they're
Cynthia Levin (39:42):
teenagers
Myka Kennedy Stephens: they don't always love you. (39:42):
undefined
But I'm
Cynthia Levin (39:44):
telling you, those dogs love you a hundred percent of the time.
So, that's like a guaranteed wayI can bring delight for myself.
I also have a 1980s video gamedownstairs that I just really enjoy.
It's nostalgia and it allows me tokind of shut everything off and I get
(40:08):
into sort of a zen moment of flow.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (40:11):
Hmm.
Cynthia Levin (40:11):
when I'm playing certain games.
I'm 11 years old and on topof my Ms. Pacman game again.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (40:18):
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Levin (40:20):
And these things benefit nobody at all.
There's a favorite LGBTQ activist thatI know named Ben Green, and he writes
about it in a book that he wrote.
It's like, do things that are ofabsolutely no benefit to anyone but
yourself and maybe some friends.
And I think his thing is like playingDungeons and Dragons and unplugging.
(40:42):
These are just examples ofsmall things to remember.
What I also wrote about in my blog aboutjoy, I think is really important in the
view of when you're trying to organizeand bring in activists around you is, when
everybody's feeling really despondent.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (41:03):
Hmm.
Cynthia Levin (41:04):
If we're always very serious and bringing people
into the conversation with howdire everything is, people think
I don't necessarily wanna do that.
I had that at home.
What's point of that?
Myka Kennedy Stephens (41:14):
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Levin (41:15):
I think it was Ruth Bader Ginsburg said, lead, but do it
in a way so that others will follow.
When I am creating events, I'm tryingto not only tell people what the problem
is, but also lift them up in some ways.
And that might just be in theway that I'm welcoming them.
(41:36):
It might be in the place the venue.
Maybe it's in a park like we mentioned,or nature, or again, with the creativity.
If you have to meet in a Daveand Buster's, if you like that
video game thing, do that.
But, finding ways to make it appealingfor us, to lift each other up instead
(41:56):
of like all dragging each other down.
I think it's important to get in touchwith our joy and inner delight in some
way so that we can be that for each other.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (42:09):
Listening to you talk more about this.
It's reminding me of a bookthat I have started reading.
This is the second time I've startedreading it, but it's by Margaret
Wheatley, called Who Do We Choose to Be?
And in that book, she introduces the ideaof creating or building islands of sanity.
(42:34):
When we're in the midst of so much chaos,so much change, where those feelings of
dire consequences and everything'sfalling apart are just so overwhelming.
Being able to create an island ofsanity where there is something
(42:57):
positive happening or you are beingfed in some way where you find your
community and you can support each other.
And yes, all of the chaos, all of thethings that make us angry, all of the
sadness and the grief is still thereon the outside, surrounding the island.
(43:21):
But you can choose, right?
You can choose when you want toengage that, when it's most empowering
to tap into that anger, to tapinto the frustration, to tap into
Cynthia Levin (43:36):
Yeah.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (43:37):
the chaos, and when you need to be
fed by your island of sanity.
Cynthia Levin (43:44):
I mean, maybe there's something in there about,
you know, controlling what you can.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (43:48):
Hmm.
Cynthia Levin (43:48):
Controlling when you engage, controlling when you don't.
There's another activity that I do that,it's sort of interesting in that it's
very much under my control and not,that I'm a volunteer for Make-A-Wish.
I am a Make-A-Wish wish granter,which means that I am in contact with
usually about two families at a time.
I am a volunteer that is indirect contact with the family
(44:12):
to determine what the wish is.
But, it takes a long timeto grant these wishes.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (44:16):
Hmm.
Cynthia Levin (44:17):
I am in charge of sending them wish boosts every month.
It's my job to get to know whatthe kid likes or doesn't like
and just to make them happy.
Now, the lack of control is, I don't knowwhat is going to happen to this child.
That is up to the medicalteam, our Creator.
(44:37):
These are very much out of my control, butwhat I can do is get to know them and just
send little things that are gonna makethem happy and that also makes me happy.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (44:49):
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Levin (44:50):
There's something about like bringing it into a
manageable area, because advocacy is
... we can't predict what's going to happen.
I can't tell you what's gonnahappen in this fight over Medicaid.
I can't tell you what's gonna happento library funding and stuff like that.
(45:11):
It's something that we can'tcontrol, but we can influence.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (45:16):
Hmm.
Cynthia Levin (45:16):
You understand what I mean?
It's like if I totally disengage, then I'mpowerless and I don't have a say in it.
If I do engage, I can influence what'shappening, but at some point, I think
for my own sanity, I also have to let goof the outcome of any particular battle.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (45:37):
Hmm.
Cynthia Levin (45:38):
The USAID issue earlier this year, if you heard about that.
USAID is where most of our foreign aid,humanitarian funding, flows through.
Some goes through the StateDepartment, but USAID was by
far where most of it went.
And, President Trump and Elon Muskwith DOGE came through and in over the
course of days, just dismantled it.
(46:00):
And thousands of workers were out of jobsand life-saving health clinics were just
locked and people couldn't get to them.
That was devastating.
That was probably whenI wrote my grief one.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (46:13):
Hmm.
Cynthia Levin (46:14):
So I continue to fight that fight and like I might be
working on something for nutrition.
I might win that one, but I might losea battle over tuberculosis funding.
We're just trying to like getthese scraps back as we go.
In order for me to exist as a wholeperson, I have to tap into some sort
(46:36):
of zen place where I can keep fightingthe fight, but not have my whole
being attached to one specific bill inlegislation and see this is a continuum.
This is a time we're living through.
There have been bad timesin the United States.
You and I aren't used to them.
We're too young.
(46:56):
We didn't have some of thewars and challenges and we
didn't live through Vietnam.
We weren't here for it.
So we are unpracticed.
There's a phrase for malaria ifyou haven't had malaria in an area.
They call it a malaria naive area.
I think
Myka Kennedy Stephens (47:12):
Um.
Cynthia Levin (47:15):
we are naive in this area, but we need to wise up real fast.
But also give myself permissionto not be responsible.
Not take it on as a personalfailing if one particular piece
of legislation doesn't go through.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (47:34):
That is so, so wise, so very wise,
Cynthia Levin (47:38):
Let's see if I can do it.
I try all the time.
Since you have video, this is visible.
I can see on the screen.
There's something else that I do.
And this probably is not self-care.
This is anger management,but not self-care.
I was so angry the other day.
I am like retired from TaeKwonDo,but I still have all the equipment in
(48:00):
my basement and I was so angry thatI let loose with, over a thousand
punches into a wave master, whichis like a heavy bag, and I just
punched all the skin off my knuckles.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (48:11):
Wow.
Cynthia Levin (48:11):
So that was not healthcare for my skin, but it like
helped me manage my anger at the time.
So there's physical evidencethat, that I'm a peaceful
person, but I also get angry.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (48:26):
Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Levin (48:27):
So what a conversation.
We should just all watchInside Out 2 after this.
Talk about all our emotions.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (48:37):
Well, Cynthia, this has been a great conversation.
You've already shared a lot about what'scoming up in your next book, Advocacy
Made Easy (48:47):
the Handbook for Turning Civic Frustration into Powerful Action.
Is there anything else that youwant to share with us that we
can look forward to in this book?
Cynthia Levin (48:59):
Yeah.
Just to describe it again.
This is something that I saw thatwas needed for general audiences
that I'm usually talking tomoms and parents, caregivers.
But in 2025, it just seems like everybodycould use the refresher if you have done
it before, or just to know these skills.
(49:20):
It's a handbook.
It's gonna be around 60pages or something like that.
My goal is that it's inexpensive,so that's not a barrier for anybody.
It will also be availableas an e-reader type thing.
I am going to tell you that itwould be impossible to put every
kind of advocacy action availableto us inside a 60 page book.
(49:42):
That's just not possible.
So the ones that I have presented arethe ones that I think are most suited for
exchange of ideas and things like that.
Which, again, I think it is veryimportant to have protests in the
streets and to do that kind of thing.
The kind of advocacy that I'm talkingabout is that bridge building kind of
(50:05):
thing, and where the exchange of ideascan come from, writing for media, or
writing a handwritten letter, or sittingdown a meeting and things like that.
So, if you want to learn howto organize a protest, that's
going to be a different book.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (50:23):
Hmm.
Cynthia Levin (50:24):
If you want to learn how to work within the system that we have and
to try to actually contact the people whoare currently in power, this is that book.
What I say in the beginning of itis that I know things are hard and I
know that we feel powerless sometimes.
Going back to what I saidbefore, it's like you can't
(50:47):
predict what's going to happen.
Like I can't say that if you take all theactions in this book that you will win.
Hopefully it gets it farther down thegoal and it can teach you how to organize
and how to teach others these skills.
Because we need a lot more people, likewe said, there's a lot more attacks
(51:07):
coming from a lot more directions, soif we don't wanna burn out totally,
we need to bring in more people.
So this is a tool to help that.
I can't tell you if you do all of this,that you'll win on your particular issue.
But I will tell you that if youdo some of the things in this
book, you will feel better.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (51:27):
Hmm.
Cynthia Levin (51:27):
Less powerless.
And you'll feel like you did somethingin the time that we have here.
Because there are people that are kind ofsitting out, resisting what's going on.
But this is the only time thatwe have to make any change.
(51:51):
And isn't it wonderful that we arehere on the earth at the same time?
Myka Kennedy Stephens (51:55):
Hmm.
Cynthia Levin (51:55):
That we can work together on it.
That is the crux of it.
It's concrete, step-by-step instructionsto do these things, to better
share ideas, and to make you feelmore powerful and less frustrated.
That's what it's about.
It should be out this summer and I wishI could share my cover art and stuff like
(52:16):
that, but that's still being worked on.
But I'm so glad we got thechance to talk about it now.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (52:22):
Sure, and you know I'll be sure to put links to your
website, to your current book, yourblog, all in the show notes, and folks
can watch those and learn about your newbook when it's released, and maybe even
follow you on social media and see thecover when you're able to post it there.
Cynthia Levin (52:47):
Absolutely.
That's the best way.
If you're interested in knowing whenit comes out, the best thing to do is
to go to my website, www.changyit.com,which will be in the show notes and
there is a newsletter sign up thatyou can get my monthly e-newsletter.
You'll be among the first to know.
And each newsletter always hasan easy advocacy action that you
(53:09):
can take on a variety of issues.
So yeah, thanks for sharingall that good stuff.
I hope to see some of yourlisteners on social media.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (53:19):
Well, thank you so much for your time today and
for such a wonderful conversation.
I really do appreciate the work thatyou do and I appreciate you sharing
your wisdom and your encouragementwith me and with my listeners.
Cynthia Levin (53:38):
It's great to be here.
Thank you, Myka.
Myka Kennedy Stephens (53:42):
I hope you've enjoyed listening in on my conversation
with Cynthia Changyit Levin.
I hope you feel empowered andinspired to take part in advocacy
work on behalf of your community.
Links to Cynthia's website, book andnewsletter are in the show notes,
and I invite you to watch for her newbook coming out later this summer.
If you would like to stay connectedwith me and Fosgail, please sign up
(54:04):
for our monthly newsletter, FieldNotes, if you have not already.
It includes prompts for reflection.
The latest from our blog andpodcast, upcoming opportunities
and behind the scenes news andmiscellanea from the Fosgail team.
You might also considerjoining the Fosgail community.
It's a membership platform thatprovides a space for discussion,
(54:25):
encouragement, inspiration, and support.
The always open, forever free tier is opento anyone who is looking for a safe and
supportive space to explore the challengesof leadership in uncertain times and
cultivating professional wellbeing.
This could be a great place to brainstormwith like-minded professionals about
(54:45):
advocacy efforts in our communities,including our libraries, museums,
and other organizations strugglingin this current political climate.
Links to join the communityand sign up for the newsletter
are also in the show notes.
Thank you for joining us for thisepisode of the Fosgail Mindset.
Please do subscribe using your favoritepodcast providers so that you can receive
(55:08):
new episodes as soon as we drop them.
Until next time, I hope youfind open possibilities.
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