Episode 5: Jon Weiskopf - The Engineer Who Walked Away from Apple to Redefine Real Estate Impact

Apple engineer turned impact investor John Wesoff joins me to talk about burnout, reinvention, and why most “impact investing” is just branding until the numbers tell the truth. We get into energy efficiency that actually pencils, the real future of modular housing, and why finance has to come first, or nothing works. This is impact without illusions and real estate without excuses.

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Welcome back to Get Real.
Get Wiser.
Today's guest.
Went from racing lawnmowers in his grandfather's backyard to engineering apple's retail stores across the globe to walking away from it all during COVID burnout to launching Blue-Eyed Capital, a firm dedicated to real estate with real impact.
You'll hear how an eight hour Apple interview almost fried his laptop battery.
Why he believes.

(00:22):
Energy efficiency, ROI compounds over time and why modular housing may be the only path out of America's housing shortage.
This is a conversation about curiosity, burnout, and building impact that actually pencils.
Here's my talk with John Wesoff. 10 00:00:36,234.496598639 --> 00:00:40,44.496598639 I'm gonna hand it straight over to John without further ado and let him introduce himself. 11 00:00:40,321.489795918 --> 00:00:40,441.489795918 you. 12 00:00:40,441.489795918 --> 00:00:41,11.489795918 Good, sir. 13 00:00:41,11.489795918 --> 00:00:42,181.489795918 It's a pleasure to be here. 14 00:00:42,211.489795918 --> 00:00:42,361.489795918 Hmm. 15 00:00:42,391.489795918 --> 00:00:43,351.489795918 A little bit about me. 16 00:00:43,401.489795918 --> 00:00:48,271.489795918 Grew up in Connecticut fascinated by how things worked and, and how the world worked. 17 00:00:48,851.489795918 --> 00:00:52,751.489795918 Had a grandfather that had 50 riding lawnmowers in his garage all broken. 18 00:00:52,801.489795918 --> 00:00:54,211.489795918 Some of them broken because of me. 19 00:00:54,211.489795918 --> 00:01:00,556.489795918 I used to race them, it just set me on a path of, of wanting to tinker and figure things out. 20 00:01:00,641.489795918 --> 00:01:02,81.489795918 I used to break my computer and. 21 00:01:02,786.489795918 --> 00:01:08,466.489795918 When I couldn't figure out how to fix it, how to ask my mom for money to fix it, but kind of set me into a path of engineering. 22 00:01:08,516.489795918 --> 00:01:09,806.489795918 I wanted to be a race car engineer. 23 00:01:09,806.489795918 --> 00:01:10,886.489795918 I love Formula One. 24 00:01:11,586.489795918 --> 00:01:16,176.489795918 My dream of working for Ferrari and, and, and designing the race cars did not come true. 25 00:01:16,176.489795918 --> 00:01:18,166.489795918 I went to college to be an engineer. 26 00:01:18,166.489795918 --> 00:01:20,696.489795918 Got my first job building systems for buildings. 27 00:01:21,656.489795918 --> 00:01:24,56.489795918 moved to New York City where my career kind of took off. 28 00:01:24,56.489795918 --> 00:01:25,556.489795918 I found myself in love, what I did. 29 00:01:25,556.489795918 --> 00:01:26,666.489795918 It came easy to me. 30 00:01:26,666.489795918 --> 00:01:33,171.489795918 I spent my, my career really focused on sustainability energy modeling is kind of where I got my kind of knack or niche. 31 00:01:34,71.489795918 --> 00:01:36,291.489795918 one day I got a call from, from Apple. 32 00:01:36,291.489795918 --> 00:01:37,41.489795918 It was out of the blue. 33 00:01:37,41.489795918 --> 00:01:40,611.48979592 I was looking for a job, but never even thought about working for Apple. 34 00:01:40,611.48979592 --> 00:01:46,571.48979592 Got a call from them and interviewed eight hours in a single room it was the longest interview of my life. 35 00:01:47,271.48979592 --> 00:01:51,381.48979592 A lot of it was sitting in a room just waiting for the next person to come and probably sweating. 36 00:01:51,501.48979592 --> 00:01:51,921.48979592 Got it. 37 00:01:52,28.4829932 --> 00:01:53,438.4829932 Worked for them for 10 years. 38 00:01:53,438.4829932 --> 00:01:57,908.4829932 I, I worked my way up, became a head of engineering for their, retail store portfolio. 39 00:01:57,958.4829932 --> 00:02:08,268.4829932 I got to travel around the world and see different cultures build and it's amazing, not just to travel and see how different cultures live but, you know, became a dad right at the beginning of COVID. 40 00:02:08,378.4829932 --> 00:02:12,488.4829932 COVID made me work extra hard and I already thought I was working hard. 41 00:02:12,588.4829932 --> 00:02:14,148.4829932 Maybe 80, a hundred hours a week. 42 00:02:15,148.4829932 --> 00:02:15,898.4829932 I just broke. 43 00:02:16,238.4829932 --> 00:02:17,198.4829932 I was just sick of it. 44 00:02:17,198.4829932 --> 00:02:17,828.4829932 I was stressed. 45 00:02:17,828.4829932 --> 00:02:18,848.4829932 I was depressed. 46 00:02:18,848.4829932 --> 00:02:20,768.4829932 I told my wife, I can't do this anymore. 47 00:02:21,768.4829932 --> 00:02:33,38.4829932 my wife is wonderful, an amazing woman, successful woman, I quit and started Blue Eyed Capital, my real estate investment firm, where I focus on impact investing I'll tell you my funny story. 48 00:02:33,38.4829932 --> 00:02:40,543.4829932 So I was in this little room Apple interviewing I couldn't find the electrical outlet to plug in my phone to charge. 49 00:02:41,158.4829932 --> 00:02:45,178.4829932 was looking everywhere, but I didn't want people like it was a glass office, you could see right into it. 50 00:02:45,508.4829932 --> 00:02:48,488.4829932 I didn't want people to, see me looking around, like not knowing. 51 00:02:48,488.4829932 --> 00:02:53,78.4829932 So I used my computer to charge my phone, but then my computer died halfway through the day. 52 00:02:53,448.4829932 --> 00:02:54,348.4829932 But that was my funny thing. 53 00:02:54,348.4829932 --> 00:03:00,168.4829932 I told my boss, the guy that hired me a year later, I was like, you know, I couldn't find the electrical outlet that day that you interviewed me. 54 00:03:00,718.4829932 --> 00:03:03,905.47619048 Were you a rebel? The truth? Yeah, I kind of push the boundaries. 55 00:03:04,25.47619048 --> 00:03:07,548.4829932 I probably still do to today, in a different, you know, Sense. 56 00:03:08,598.4829932 --> 00:03:10,668.4829932 Tell me, you were all around the world with Apple. 57 00:03:11,98.4829932 --> 00:03:17,60.47619048 What was your most wild eye-opening? Cultural shock experience? China. 58 00:03:18,60.47619048 --> 00:03:21,530.47619048 I spent a lot of time in China an amazing country. 59 00:03:22,530.47619048 --> 00:03:24,420.47619048 I, I like, this is how I like to refer to it. 60 00:03:24,970.47619048 --> 00:03:26,260.47619048 America is a very old country. 61 00:03:26,260.47619048 --> 00:03:26,950.47619048 So is China. 62 00:03:26,980.47619048 --> 00:03:36,120.47619048 But, but from a development perspective a growth perspective, America, 200 years, right? First skyscrapers, all of those things, right? I look at our subways. 63 00:03:36,330.47619048 --> 00:03:38,730.47619048 I lived in New York City for about, you know, 10 or 12 years. 64 00:03:38,730.47619048 --> 00:03:43,470.47619048 So, you know, look at these, these are old systems, right? Old, but we were one of the first ones to ever have them. 65 00:03:44,470.47619048 --> 00:03:48,730.47619048 You go to China, most of their skyscrapers, most of their subway systems, Hong Kong. 66 00:03:49,730.47619048 --> 00:03:56,30.47619048 New within the past few decades, right? So, yes, very old country, probably even older than than America in general. 67 00:03:56,30.47619048 --> 00:04:04,330.47619048 But still from a development perspective as you're flying over that country, you see roads and highways being built. 68 00:04:04,330.47619048 --> 00:04:12,870.47619048 You see coming up, right? but what's amazing is some of the techniques that they used to build are still very old. 69 00:04:13,80.47619048 --> 00:04:14,400.47619048 So they use bamboo. 70 00:04:15,60.47619048 --> 00:04:20,370.47619048 Being on bamboo, many, many floors up in the air is the very first time is extremely scary. 71 00:04:21,370.47619048 --> 00:04:22,870.47619048 you look at it, you're like, that is wood. 72 00:04:22,870.47619048 --> 00:04:23,950.47619048 That's not gonna save me. 73 00:04:23,950.47619048 --> 00:04:28,530.47619048 In America we have steel and, and scaffolding enough things like that, right? It's incredibly safe. 74 00:04:28,530.47619048 --> 00:04:29,400.47619048 It's incredibly strong. 75 00:04:29,400.47619048 --> 00:04:31,58.4829932 But, but I, it's things like Right. 76 00:04:31,200.47619048 --> 00:04:32,220.47619048 were very interesting. 77 00:04:32,930.47619048 --> 00:04:33,448.4829932 You Wow. 78 00:04:34,250.47619048 --> 00:04:39,850.47619048 individuals, sweep the streets and they're sweeping the streets with like with a broom that is. 79 00:04:40,775.47619048 --> 00:04:49,525.47619048 Almost looks like, like or, or, or, or something, you know, from the field when you know that they're shipping, you know, plastic brooms to us. 80 00:04:49,575.47619048 --> 00:04:55,475.47619048 I think what I learned the most about traveling all over, was that everybody ends up to, gets to the same endpoint. 81 00:04:56,195.47619048 --> 00:04:57,485.47619048 all do it a little bit differently. 82 00:04:58,485.47619048 --> 00:05:00,825.47619048 And it was eyeopening to me when I first joined. 83 00:05:00,825.47619048 --> 00:05:02,805.47619048 I was John from Apple, from America. 84 00:05:02,805.47619048 --> 00:05:06,945.47619048 You're gonna do it my way, Because this is what I know, so you're gonna do it my way. 85 00:05:07,945.47619048 --> 00:05:15,795.47619048 and you, and you kind of start to wake up and you realize that, they've just, they've just have different not different engineering techniques to say, but different. 86 00:05:16,295.47619048 --> 00:05:22,15.47619048 Where over the United States, a certain system, a certain type of air conditioning, certain type of wire, be ha, just, just what we use. 87 00:05:22,15.47619048 --> 00:05:23,555.47619048 It's, it's our normal. 88 00:05:24,225.47619048 --> 00:05:27,615.47619048 And when you try to impose different things on people, that's not their normal. 89 00:05:27,795.47619048 --> 00:05:30,75.47619048 Well, things don't, things don't work very well. 90 00:05:31,175.47619048 --> 00:05:37,57.46938775 So tell me Did you ever meet Steve Jobs? I did not, I joined Apple in 2014, that was after his passing. 91 00:05:37,780.47619048 --> 00:05:41,170.47619048 His culture was very present there. 92 00:05:42,170.47619048 --> 00:05:48,560.47619048 apple is a very interesting place to work, you know, and I haven't worked for any other tech company, I can only give reference to what I did. 93 00:05:49,560.47619048 --> 00:05:51,300.47619048 it's a lot about asking questions. 94 00:05:51,800.47619048 --> 00:05:57,620.47619048 I have been in the room with Tim Cook where we were, showing him store designs or new store features and things like that. 95 00:05:58,30.47619048 --> 00:06:01,150.47619048 Tim Cook was a very silent person for most of the time. 96 00:06:01,620.47619048 --> 00:06:04,770.47619048 Very seldom did you get approvals on things. 97 00:06:05,490.47619048 --> 00:06:07,50.47619048 but you always got questions. 98 00:06:07,940.47619048 --> 00:06:11,660.47619048 As an engineer, some assumptions are deadly, we need fact. 99 00:06:11,760.47619048 --> 00:06:19,368.4829932 We need to know, and we might make assumptions to come to fact, but we need to define what it is so that it kind of becomes a fact, but Right. 100 00:06:19,710.47619048 --> 00:06:24,160.47619048 I, I think that is something that really opened my eyes to the way decisions are made. 101 00:06:24,290.47619048 --> 00:06:28,400.47619048 I will say it sometimes it was a detriment to Apple because too many people got to ask questions. 102 00:06:28,990.47619048 --> 00:06:38,487.46938775 How did you transition to real estate, was it the apple thing that made you say, I can build buildings better? How did, how did we get from one to the other? At Apple I took a three month mental health leave. 103 00:06:38,757.46938775 --> 00:06:43,362.46938775 I just, I was, like I said, I think at the beginning of the bio, I was, I was depressed, I was struggling. 104 00:06:44,202.46938775 --> 00:06:45,312.46938775 Coming outta COVID. 105 00:06:45,362.46938775 --> 00:06:51,542.46938775 I had gotten COVID at, towards the end and, and was stuck in my, stuck in one room in my house for a week. 106 00:06:52,542.46938775 --> 00:06:54,42.46938775 Things started to unravel for me. 107 00:06:54,42.46938775 --> 00:06:58,32.46938775 And I just started kind of realizing, I had friends, my wife telling me like, you can't keep doing this. 108 00:06:58,32.46938775 --> 00:07:05,282.46938775 You can't keep working as much as you are like, and I kind of just started realizing like, what am I working for? What am I doing this for? I thought I had reached success. 109 00:07:05,282.46938775 --> 00:07:07,502.46938776 I thought, I was this guy flying all around the world. 110 00:07:07,502.46938776 --> 00:07:09,32.46938775 I I was in charge of so much. 111 00:07:09,707.46938776 --> 00:07:11,327.46938776 But I felt completely empty. 112 00:07:11,477.46938776 --> 00:07:16,407.46938775 It, apple became boring to me building the same thing over and over again. 113 00:07:16,457.46938776 --> 00:07:24,237.46938776 A lot of things I disagree, started to be disagree with from kind of what I thought was the correct way of doing things and, and why I was hired and what I was hired to do. 114 00:07:24,237.46938776 --> 00:07:32,737.46938776 So, and during that time, I, something came across my, my Instagram which I barely, rarely use even to today. 115 00:07:33,532.46938776 --> 00:07:36,272.46938776 it was a class on apartment syndication or real estate investing. 116 00:07:36,272.46938776 --> 00:07:37,112.46938776 And I was like, well, crap man. 117 00:07:37,112.46938776 --> 00:07:39,812.46938776 I, my day's like open, I don't really have anything to do on Friday. 118 00:07:40,812.46938776 --> 00:07:47,492.46938776 So I took a, 20, 30 minute drive, went to this one day seminar, or, a few hours seminar and, and it was like, all right, sign up for this three day thing. 119 00:07:47,492.46938776 --> 00:07:49,832.46938776 And I was like, okay, man, a thousand bucks. 120 00:07:49,862.46938776 --> 00:07:51,602.46938776 Like, yeah, I'll sign up for this. 121 00:07:51,602.46938776 --> 00:07:51,812.46938776 Okay. 122 00:07:51,812.46938776 --> 00:07:53,102.46938776 Or 500 bucks, whatever it was. 123 00:07:54,102.46938776 --> 00:08:11,957.46938776 I was looking around the room and during this thing, and I was like, all right, people are standing up and talking and asking questions and everybody had to say like, what did you do? And I noticed something in the room, and what I noticed was that not a single person stood up and said that they were part, they had done real estate before, right? Not a single person. 124 00:08:11,987.46938776 --> 00:08:15,47.46938776 Now, I had been in commercial real estate for 18 years. 125 00:08:15,467.46938776 --> 00:08:19,157.46938776 I built every type of building, solar PA panels. 126 00:08:20,42.46938776 --> 00:08:21,572.46938776 Gas turbines combined. 127 00:08:21,572.46938776 --> 00:08:22,592.46938776 Heat and power plants. 128 00:08:22,622.46938776 --> 00:08:24,962.46938776 High rises, low rises, anything you can name 'em. 129 00:08:24,962.46938776 --> 00:08:26,922.46938776 I, I can probably, put my hands on. 130 00:08:27,552.46938776 --> 00:08:28,752.46938776 And I was like, hold on a second. 131 00:08:28,752.46938776 --> 00:08:30,612.46938776 All these other folks are doing this. 132 00:08:31,212.46938776 --> 00:08:32,742.46938776 They seem successful. 133 00:08:33,742.46938776 --> 00:08:43,102.46938776 Well, and, and part of that lesson or part of that, that three day workshop was like, as you're new to this, what value can you bring to people that are experienced? And so I was like, Hmm. 134 00:08:44,102.46938776 --> 00:08:48,252.46938776 I could bring the fact that I know a crap ton about buildings, that I know really everything about them. 135 00:08:48,312.46938776 --> 00:08:49,212.46938776 Like, that's my net. 136 00:08:49,272.46938776 --> 00:08:50,862.46938776 That's my net, my specialty. 137 00:08:51,862.46938776 --> 00:08:54,202.46938776 and I know how to make them efficient and I know how to operate 'em. 138 00:08:54,262.46938776 --> 00:08:56,632.46938776 And I've done it for some big folks. 139 00:08:57,632.46938776 --> 00:09:01,262.46938776 I kind of called my wife on the way home and I was like, what to went to do. 140 00:09:02,262.46938776 --> 00:09:03,672.46938776 And some light bulb went off. 141 00:09:03,852.46938776 --> 00:09:07,182.46938776 And, a couple weeks later, I determined the name of my company. 142 00:09:07,182.46938776 --> 00:09:08,82.46938776 It's Blue-Eyed Capital. 143 00:09:08,82.46938776 --> 00:09:11,542.46938776 It's named after my wife and my son who both have blue eyes. 144 00:09:11,572.46938776 --> 00:09:18,182.46938776 I am lucky that my 11 month old little girl also has blue eyes, so I didn't have to open up another business just for her. 145 00:09:18,612.46938776 --> 00:09:22,312.46938776 But you know, the next couple months while I was still out of work, I started to to learn. 146 00:09:22,312.46938776 --> 00:09:23,332.46938776 I went back to Apple. 147 00:09:24,107.46938776 --> 00:09:24,797.46938776 My leave was up. 148 00:09:24,797.46938776 --> 00:09:36,767.46938776 I went back and I just, watched everybody run around the office, frantic over a demand from somebody else, and I sat there and I said, this was me. 149 00:09:37,767.46938776 --> 00:09:47,357.46938776 And for the first time in my life, I was so at peace with just sitting there and just watching the noise because I knew that I was building something else. 150 00:09:48,357.46938776 --> 00:09:52,957.46938776 And it was that point it was about four months before I ultimately left. 151 00:09:52,957.46938776 --> 00:09:56,797.46938776 I waited for some stock options to, to, to grant for me. 152 00:09:57,797.46938776 --> 00:10:01,607.46938776 and I planned my exit and, you know, I, I got into it. 153 00:10:01,947.46938776 --> 00:10:14,187.46938776 I had never done it from the investing perspective, you know? Of the time I just set budgets and my bosses approved budgets and I got to run with it and I was focused on, on my piece, you know what I mean? So I think the transition was easy. 154 00:10:15,187.46938776 --> 00:10:18,367.46938776 I probably thought I was better equipped to do it than maybe I initially thought. 155 00:10:19,297.46938776 --> 00:10:20,377.46938776 We can talk about that. 156 00:10:21,317.46938776 --> 00:10:25,847.46938776 Where the struggles some are with some of the struggles are or have been and, and kind of what I've learned along the way. 157 00:10:25,947.46938776 --> 00:10:27,237.46938776 I did not jump right into impact. 158 00:10:28,237.46938776 --> 00:10:29,887.46938776 And I think I was scared at first. 159 00:10:30,67.46938776 --> 00:10:35,137.46938776 I think I saw when I entered the space, a lot of people were not in impact. 160 00:10:35,167.46938776 --> 00:10:37,117.46938776 Actually very few and still are today. 161 00:10:37,117.46938776 --> 00:10:43,467.46938776 It's very few, and I found myself very mainstream because I felt that's what I needed to be. 162 00:10:43,717.46938776 --> 00:10:45,847.46938776 But I was, it was very hard to talk. 163 00:10:46,267.46938776 --> 00:10:50,587.46938776 It was very hard to write things because I had, all I knew was energy efficiency. 164 00:10:50,927.46938776 --> 00:10:53,987.46938776 Apple really opened my eyes to that social impact piece. 165 00:10:54,87.46938776 --> 00:11:04,647.46938776 Apple is very big about causes and, and, and speaking up for customers and, and disenfranchised and, and, and focusing on, on world outside of their own business, right? Yes. 166 00:11:04,647.46938776 --> 00:11:05,397.46938776 They're a corporation. 167 00:11:05,397.46938776 --> 00:11:07,407.46938776 They, they definitely focus on themselves. 168 00:11:07,407.46938776 --> 00:11:08,247.46938776 Everybody does. 169 00:11:08,277.46938776 --> 00:11:15,237.46938776 They'd be doing a disservice for their investors if they didn't, but, it just became something again where I was like, man, this could really be a niche for me. 170 00:11:15,237.46938776 --> 00:11:16,437.46938776 This is something that I enjoy. 171 00:11:16,437.46938776 --> 00:11:27,557.46938776 And it, you know, I had to ask myself, what world will my kids grow up in with money if the world is on fire? Unfortunately today the world kind of is on fire. 172 00:11:27,917.46938776 --> 00:11:34,897.46938776 And I don't know how much I personally can influence, but I want my kids to know that their dad did what they, what, what he could. 173 00:11:35,317.46938776 --> 00:11:41,167.46938776 With the skills that I had and, and the access that I have and the knowledge that I have to, to make a change to other people. 174 00:11:41,167.46938776 --> 00:11:46,867.46938776 What percentage of your heart is into the finances and what percentage is into the idealism of it. 175 00:11:46,979.46258504 --> 00:11:47,269.46258504 Okay. 176 00:11:47,437.46938776 --> 00:11:53,617.46938776 Finding people that want to do impact has been the hardest part for me in building my business and starting my business. 177 00:11:54,37.46938776 --> 00:11:55,747.46938776 Finding people that are interested in it. 178 00:11:56,747.46938776 --> 00:12:00,257.46938776 convincing people that certain things like energy efficiency. 179 00:12:01,257.46938776 --> 00:12:14,77.46938776 And you look at the government that just UN is rolling back all these energy efficient credits and things like that, so people like, well look like, why do I wanna get into it? It's more expensive maybe, but you have to understand why you would do it and what the outcome could be. 180 00:12:14,77.46938776 --> 00:12:14,497.46938776 Right. 181 00:12:14,557.46938776 --> 00:12:22,447.46938776 I did a post, I think it was two days ago, about utility rates increasing, right? The average real estate operator. 182 00:12:23,447.46938776 --> 00:12:23,837.46938776 Right. 183 00:12:23,897.46938776 --> 00:12:25,217.46938776 Underwrites 3%. 184 00:12:25,247.46938776 --> 00:12:26,447.46938776 It's just blanket 3%. 185 00:12:26,447.46938776 --> 00:12:27,767.46938776 Like everybody just throws 3%. 186 00:12:27,767.46938776 --> 00:12:32,967.46938776 Like that's the inflation number, right? Well, Last year utility rates went up 13%. 187 00:12:33,967.46938776 --> 00:12:37,57.46938776 So on the average in the last five to 10 years, it's been about five and a half percent. 188 00:12:37,207.46938776 --> 00:12:44,227.46938776 Now, maybe not in every single market, but if you're not looking at these things, these things compound on top of each other, right? And so. 189 00:12:45,127.46938776 --> 00:12:55,687.46938776 What I like to tell people that are naysayers to some of this energy efficiency and all of that stuff is if you're an naysayer to energy efficiency, you're a naysayer to higher profits, right? And so you're not actually a capitalist. 190 00:12:56,387.46938776 --> 00:12:58,217.46938776 You're a give me money right away, capitalist. 191 00:12:58,217.46938776 --> 00:12:59,327.46938776 You're not a long-term capitalist. 192 00:12:59,327.46938776 --> 00:13:09,177.46938776 You don't understand what long-term gains are because what energy efficiency does, and I believe this wholeheartedly, it is one of the only building improvements. 193 00:13:09,477.46938776 --> 00:13:12,837.46938776 Whose return on investment actually increases with time. 194 00:13:13,837.46938776 --> 00:13:14,587.46938776 Think about that. 195 00:13:14,617.46938776 --> 00:13:18,375.47619048 If I do something today and it saves Yeah, you got the two graphs. 196 00:13:18,997.46938776 --> 00:13:19,875.47619048 and my utility Mm-hmm. 197 00:13:20,17.46938776 --> 00:13:27,157.46938776 keep increase increasing over time, a hundred dollars today could be 110 next year and 120 the year after, and so on, and so on and so on. 198 00:13:27,157.46938776 --> 00:13:34,627.46938776 So we are very shortsighted people, We look at very short, short terms in terms of return on investment. 199 00:13:35,627.46938776 --> 00:13:46,47.46938776 we're not willing to make assumptions and look at things, I guess, too dynamically or too, too intricately to actually determine is this actually a better decision? Right. 200 00:13:46,249.46258504 --> 00:13:48,639.46258504 So how do I look at it? Okay. 201 00:13:49,509.46258504 --> 00:13:51,489.46258504 I am first and foremost always financially. 202 00:13:51,489.46258504 --> 00:13:55,479.46258503 If I cannot be financially viable, there is zero impact I will ever have. 203 00:13:55,879.46258503 --> 00:14:01,279.46258503 I will actually probably do worse impact, which is definitely not my, you know, not my intention. 204 00:14:02,279.46258503 --> 00:14:10,469.46258503 I also look to myself as kind of a, a p prag being pragmatic when it comes to impact, which is I'm not a big net zero person. 205 00:14:10,869.46258503 --> 00:14:15,479.46258504 Sounds funny coming from a guy that, that is all about sustainability, but I think it's highly impractical. 206 00:14:16,299.46258503 --> 00:14:20,649.46258503 And so I don't believe that we shouldn't be reaching for it and getting there. 207 00:14:20,929.46258503 --> 00:14:39,209.46258503 I think we are so, so far away that goal and these big, lofty goals of trying to hit it is actually causing it to never get hit, right? So I look at it this way, if I can influence through my teachings, through my education, through my own work. 208 00:14:40,79.46258503 --> 00:15:01,529.46258503 Getting people that own buildings to reduce their energy efficiency or their, or increase their energy efficiency by 30% in mass across millions and millions of buildings, I will have a greater impact in the overall outcome than if I go and try to finance a brand new net zero building in just one of them. 209 00:15:02,529.46258503 --> 00:15:03,639.46258503 I'll tell you a funny story. 210 00:15:03,639.46258503 --> 00:15:09,189.46258503 I got a a, a broker friend of mine out in Tulsa, Oklahoma, sent me a deal once and he said, Hey, somebody sent me this. 211 00:15:09,369.46258503 --> 00:15:10,749.46258503 I know you know all about this stuff. 212 00:15:10,749.46258503 --> 00:15:18,689.46258503 Can you tell me if this is a good idea? And there was a brand new building being built, and I, I wanna say it was Little Rock, Arkansas, but I don't remember it. 213 00:15:18,689.46258503 --> 00:15:23,429.46258503 Anyway, it was a very, it was like a passive house, 16 inch concrete walls. 214 00:15:23,429.46258503 --> 00:15:23,949.46258503 I don't know. 215 00:15:23,949.46258503 --> 00:15:33,189.46258503 Indestructible thing would be there for another a hundred years, the utility cost should have been about $90 an apartment. 216 00:15:34,59.46258503 --> 00:15:45,49.46258503 But because these folks, the builders went and put all this crazy stuff in it, they were charging $275 for utilities just to pay back for all the stuff that they did. 217 00:15:45,499.46258503 --> 00:15:49,854.46258503 So guess who got to benefit from that building? Only the very well off. 218 00:15:50,854.46258503 --> 00:15:51,204.46258503 Right. 219 00:15:51,836.45578231 --> 00:15:52,484.46258503 What Wow. 220 00:15:52,814.46258503 --> 00:15:53,164.46258503 Right. 221 00:15:53,216.45578231 --> 00:16:00,956.45578231 the building? I made 8, 8, 8 inch thick concrete walls, probably still pretty stand up to a pretty sizable hurricane or tornado, and I built two of the same buildings. 222 00:16:01,956.45578231 --> 00:16:07,296.45578231 Maybe three of the same buildings, right? Like, so my mindset is not like you have to hit the home run every time. 223 00:16:07,296.45578231 --> 00:16:08,256.45578231 I actually think that's wrong. 224 00:16:08,256.45578231 --> 00:16:12,156.45578231 And I, and I've, and I've kind of lived that way for a very long time in my career. 225 00:16:12,606.45578231 --> 00:16:17,886.45578231 I think there's small incremental cr and, and improvements and, and, and things that you can do. 226 00:16:18,6.45578231 --> 00:16:22,926.45578231 And for me, being a new business owner and kind of new in it, that's kind of what I'm doing, right? I, I can't be a hundred percent impact. 227 00:16:22,926.45578231 --> 00:16:24,426.45578231 I'm not, I'm not big enough yet. 228 00:16:24,426.45578231 --> 00:16:27,156.45578231 I don't have enough resources to do it, so I try to focus. 229 00:16:27,656.45578231 --> 00:16:32,136.45578231 I try to people that I partner with what we can do a little bit differently. 230 00:16:32,506.45578231 --> 00:16:34,546.45578231 But I focus on Class C apartments only. 231 00:16:34,546.45578231 --> 00:16:37,276.45578231 I don't do Class A, I'm not interested in Class A. 232 00:16:38,266.45578231 --> 00:16:41,326.4557823 I do things where, you know, really trying to serve underserved communities. 233 00:16:41,326.4557823 --> 00:16:47,746.4557823 I have a, I have an affordable assisted living community, 114 bed facility down in Hollywood, Florida. 234 00:16:48,746.4557823 --> 00:16:52,856.4557823 you know, I serve people that have no family members who only get social security checks. 235 00:16:53,856.4557823 --> 00:16:58,26.4557823 you know, my rents range from $450 a month to $4,000 a month. 236 00:16:58,896.4557823 --> 00:17:03,606.4557823 You know, and these are folks, you know, that, that need the help, but that nobody else will take them. 237 00:17:04,156.4557823 --> 00:17:09,256.4557823 Because the average rent for assisted livings in the area is, you know, 6,000, $8,000. 238 00:17:10,106.4557823 --> 00:17:11,186.4557823 So it's a struggle. 239 00:17:11,349.462585 --> 00:17:12,926.4557823 Right, don't always get paid. 240 00:17:13,496.4557823 --> 00:17:13,986.4557823 You know, but. 241 00:17:14,986.4557823 --> 00:17:16,996.4557823 It's actually probably been one of my greatest deals. 242 00:17:17,256.4557823 --> 00:17:21,676.4557823 The highest returns, but there's a lot of work that we still want do there. 243 00:17:21,769.462585 --> 00:17:22,119.462585 right. 244 00:17:22,646.4557823 --> 00:17:25,136.4557823 So finances first, it's gotta come first. 245 00:17:25,166.4557823 --> 00:17:28,346.4557823 It just, it has to, and I don't think there's any way around it. 246 00:17:28,346.4557823 --> 00:17:30,446.4557823 If you want to truly, truly influence. 247 00:17:31,446.4557823 --> 00:17:40,488.4489796 Is that where the change system comes into play? So the change system is something new and God, I take on way more than I can ever handle and chew. 248 00:17:41,488.4489796 --> 00:17:42,58.4489796 Tell me all. 249 00:17:43,58.4489796 --> 00:17:50,588.4489796 when I started in this business, I realized that there was nobody that could tell me how to do impact in multifamily or residential. 250 00:17:51,228.4489796 --> 00:17:52,608.4489796 People could tell me what it is. 251 00:17:52,638.4489796 --> 00:18:05,448.4489796 People could give me snippets of the things that they do, but there was no book that I could go pick up and be like, man, if I read this, you know, it's like development, right? Like there's books about like developing a new building and here's the steps and here's the process and here's everything. 252 00:18:06,448.4489796 --> 00:18:10,398.4489796 So I joined this non-profit called multifamily Impact Council, and they had a. 253 00:18:11,298.4489796 --> 00:18:14,958.4489796 Standardized impact framework for multifamily property owner. 254 00:18:15,958.4489796 --> 00:18:17,188.4489796 One of the core key components. 255 00:18:17,188.4489796 --> 00:18:19,438.4489796 They made seven, seven core components. 256 00:18:19,518.4489796 --> 00:18:20,88.4489796 I loved it. 257 00:18:20,118.4489796 --> 00:18:21,318.4489796 I was very intrigued by it. 258 00:18:21,318.4489796 --> 00:18:21,858.4489796 I joined them. 259 00:18:21,858.4489796 --> 00:18:22,668.4489796 It's a nonprofit. 260 00:18:22,738.4489796 --> 00:18:27,208.4489796 You know, so my, my membership fees go to go to expanding their research and, and their work. 261 00:18:27,448.4489796 --> 00:18:31,708.4489796 But as I started to use it, I realized, well, okay, this is great, but this is just a lot of topic. 262 00:18:32,708.4489796 --> 00:18:37,748.4489796 And there's some details there, but again, pick this up and do anything with it right now. 263 00:18:37,808.4489796 --> 00:18:43,818.4489796 I have to go write policies, I have to write programs, I have to figure out how I'm gonna achieve this. 264 00:18:44,748.4489796 --> 00:18:48,348.4489796 I didn't agree a hundred percent with all of the core components. 265 00:18:48,378.4489796 --> 00:18:49,458.4489796 Some just weren't for me. 266 00:18:49,463.4489796 --> 00:18:52,968.4489796 Just just my personal beliefs and how I, how I kind of wanna run my business. 267 00:18:53,968.4489796 --> 00:18:58,978.4489796 I set out to make the change system, which is seven core principles of, of an impact framework. 268 00:18:58,978.4489796 --> 00:19:04,108.4489796 But it's actually a, a, a guideline of how any real estate operator can pick this book up. 269 00:19:05,8.4489796 --> 00:19:12,428.4489796 And it's actually a self-guided system where you can pick it up and you can assess your company, you can set what your goals are, and there's a scorecard. 270 00:19:12,608.4489796 --> 00:19:15,638.4489796 It's very similar to lead for, for, for green buildings. 271 00:19:15,918.4489796 --> 00:19:17,748.4489796 And you actually kind of have to make your own program. 272 00:19:18,528.4489796 --> 00:19:23,788.4489796 And you have to hit a minimum score to be viable and, and, and and then you have to go out and implement it. 273 00:19:23,788.4489796 --> 00:19:28,618.4489796 And the whole purpose is to set a program to begin to measure yourself. 274 00:19:28,898.4489796 --> 00:19:30,338.4489796 But to be able to customize it. 275 00:19:30,338.4489796 --> 00:19:44,328.4489796 I think what I found over my 20 years in real estate is that all of these programs out there, a lot of them don't provide enough wiggle room for which individuals or businesses can really customize or feel. 276 00:19:44,703.4489796 --> 00:19:49,803.4489796 Maybe feels a better, better word, Vivi that feel that they can customize it to what they want. 277 00:19:49,853.4489796 --> 00:19:50,723.4489796 We're all a little bit different. 278 00:19:50,723.4489796 --> 00:19:53,243.4489796 We all have different ideas of what impact is to me. 279 00:19:53,663.4489796 --> 00:19:56,273.4489796 I might want to impact just the energy performance of the building. 280 00:19:56,273.4489796 --> 00:19:56,723.4489796 Great. 281 00:19:56,873.4489796 --> 00:19:58,253.4489796 I might wanna do only people. 282 00:19:58,343.4489796 --> 00:19:58,643.4489796 Great. 283 00:19:58,673.4489796 --> 00:19:59,63.4489796 Okay. 284 00:19:59,423.4489796 --> 00:20:02,333.4489796 But it's really meant to set a minimum level and really just. 285 00:20:02,688.4489796 --> 00:20:10,698.4489796 I guess the other way to say it is raise the level of what, what good is, you know? so right now you know, it's a paid program. 286 00:20:10,728.4489796 --> 00:20:12,768.4489796 You know, I offer a couple different levels of it. 287 00:20:12,798.4489796 --> 00:20:21,648.4489796 One is just buy the manual and you, you, you take it, it comes with tools, spreadsheets, everything that you can, that you really need to, to go off and launch it. 288 00:20:21,718.4489796 --> 00:20:25,118.4489796 Sample policies very detailed references, all that stuff. 289 00:20:25,118.4489796 --> 00:20:27,128.4489796 Metrics, I think there are. 290 00:20:28,128.4489796 --> 00:20:32,418.4489796 There's something like a hundred different KPIs or something like that, that I call out to measure. 291 00:20:32,728.4489796 --> 00:20:37,828.4489796 It goes as deep as, as setting data points and data tags that you u that you need for data management. 292 00:20:37,938.4489796 --> 00:20:39,408.4489796 You know, that's the engineer brain in me. 293 00:20:39,748.4489796 --> 00:20:41,788.4489796 All the way to, I offer, you know, I offer that. 294 00:20:41,788.4489796 --> 00:20:44,698.4489796 I will help companies actually take that program. 295 00:20:44,698.4489796 --> 00:20:49,768.4489796 I will guide their teams on, on setting it up and, and, and launching it and actually help them implement it across their business. 296 00:20:50,768.4489796 --> 00:21:01,128.4489796 I think that's awesome because I always believe that organizations like the council that put out the seven steps they live to for a cause, they're not pragmatic and they're not business people. 297 00:21:01,128.4489796 --> 00:21:04,188.4489796 They go all in on their ideals and that's all that counts. 298 00:21:04,518.4489796 --> 00:21:07,878.4489796 Whereas, you know, when you have somebody real who's. 299 00:21:08,108.4489796 --> 00:21:21,248.4489796 An investor who's a developer, who's a builder, and they understand, like you said, you just wanna push the bull a little bit further, upgrade, see what you can do, go as far as you could without overdoing it, keeping everything balanced and in line. 300 00:21:21,608.4489796 --> 00:21:26,188.4489796 That's, you know, that's gold for you know, somebody who's into multifamily housing. 301 00:21:26,778.4489796 --> 00:21:28,548.4489796 That's, I wish you a lot of luck with that. 302 00:21:28,548.4489796 --> 00:21:30,138.4489796 I think it's gonna be incredible. 303 00:21:30,138.4489796 --> 00:21:34,715.4421769 I mean, has there been a lot of demand for it? Has it been well received? know, a little bit. 304 00:21:34,715.4421769 --> 00:21:35,705.4421769 I got a couple people. 305 00:21:35,705.4421769 --> 00:21:45,805.4421769 I, right now, today, I'm really looking for people to to become kind of like my Guinea pigs, I guess, for lack of better words, right? I need people to help me use it and, and help find any kinks that I have in the system. 306 00:21:46,105.4421769 --> 00:21:48,580.4421769 I, I, you know, I am slow to the market with it. 307 00:21:48,580.4421769 --> 00:21:50,440.4421769 It's kind of just been slowly on the side. 308 00:21:50,470.4421769 --> 00:21:58,10.4421769 As I focus on I've been kind of focusing on some acquisitions and things like that in my blue eyed capital business that is probably, you know, like I said. 309 00:21:58,295.4421769 --> 00:22:02,335.4421769 Too many projects, but it'll go we'll get there. 310 00:22:02,743.4489796 --> 00:22:06,643.4489796 You don't get back to that work schedule that you had in your closing days on Apple. 311 00:22:06,745.4421769 --> 00:22:08,203.4489796 Oh, I We don't want that to happen. 312 00:22:08,395.4421769 --> 00:22:14,418.4489796 more now than I do with Apple, but it's meaningful work, so it's actually, it doesn't feel like it, you know, I get up at, I get up Right. 313 00:22:14,485.4421769 --> 00:22:16,308.4489796 30 Like the good classes in school. 314 00:22:16,435.4421769 --> 00:22:17,155.4421769 Yeah, yeah. 315 00:22:17,808.4489796 --> 00:22:18,528.4489796 Three 30. 316 00:22:18,865.4421769 --> 00:22:19,135.4421769 Yeah. 317 00:22:19,158.4489796 --> 00:22:19,668.4489796 Wow. 318 00:22:20,28.4489796 --> 00:22:20,298.4489796 Man. 319 00:22:20,298.4489796 --> 00:22:20,688.4489796 Alive. 320 00:22:21,688.4489796 --> 00:22:22,48.4489796 Okay. 321 00:22:22,48.4489796 --> 00:22:22,948.4489796 That's, that's impressive. 322 00:22:22,948.4489796 --> 00:22:26,568.4489796 I've gotten up early on my life, but no, I can't get there. 323 00:22:26,905.4421769 --> 00:22:28,548.4489796 But I want to, you know, I That's amazing. 324 00:22:28,585.4421769 --> 00:22:29,665.4421769 know, I go to bed by nine. 325 00:22:29,815.4421769 --> 00:22:31,555.4421769 Well, if I can, you know, that's my goal. 326 00:22:32,395.4421769 --> 00:22:34,38.4489796 So, you Okay. 327 00:22:34,98.4489796 --> 00:22:34,638.4489796 Good for you. 328 00:22:35,155.4421769 --> 00:22:36,100.4421769 in the quietness in the morning. 329 00:22:36,600.4421769 --> 00:22:46,500.4421769 Do you think will there'll be any major change in impact, what housing will look like? When do you think the next paradigm shift, like the future of housing will take place and what will that be? I. 330 00:22:46,672.4353741 --> 00:22:47,212.4353741 Okay. 331 00:22:47,282.4353741 --> 00:22:48,212.4353741 I think it's already coming. 332 00:22:49,152.4353741 --> 00:22:51,312.4353741 I think it is modular construction and modular housing. 333 00:22:52,312.4353741 --> 00:22:57,992.4353741 I am, I am working on trying to build a 50 home modular build to rent community and build to own community. 334 00:22:58,22.4353741 --> 00:23:00,182.4353741 In my, my small town in northern Wisconsin. 335 00:23:01,182.4353741 --> 00:23:08,122.4353741 we are facing not just pricing you know, pricing pressure, right, and cost pressure. 336 00:23:08,182.4353741 --> 00:23:23,302.4353741 We are, we are facing work labor pressures and all of those things lead to delays, time delays, we are not sitting here as a country and saying, man, we need 500,000 homes and we better get them quick before it reaches a million. 337 00:23:23,552.4353741 --> 00:23:27,752.4353741 We are at a 4 million, I think between four and 7 million. 338 00:23:27,752.4353741 --> 00:23:29,222.4353741 It depends how you read the metric. 339 00:23:29,272.4353741 --> 00:23:37,372.4353741 But let's just call it 4 million today, right? We're at a 4 million, do 4 million rental unit or housing unit, unit deficit in this country. 340 00:23:38,372.4353741 --> 00:23:47,312.4353741 Nobody can build fast enough because the average home stick built home, even if you do it without any encumbrances, anything, still a few months. 341 00:23:48,312.4353741 --> 00:23:49,512.4353741 I'm working with the company. 342 00:23:49,572.4353741 --> 00:23:50,802.4353741 And I'm gonna keep the names out of it. 343 00:23:50,832.4353741 --> 00:23:54,432.4353741 Some of their stuff is still out under the gun or, or under wraps. 344 00:23:54,732.4353741 --> 00:23:59,72.4353741 They can build a they build modules in 10 by 20 foot section. 345 00:24:00,72.4353741 --> 00:24:04,32.4353741 It takes about six sections to, to complete a 1300 square foot house. 346 00:24:04,452.4353741 --> 00:24:12,92.4353741 Those modules come with everything except electrical wire, flooring siding. 347 00:24:13,92.4353741 --> 00:24:14,472.4353741 Everything else is pre-installed. 348 00:24:14,502.4353741 --> 00:24:18,552.4353741 You know, I think I gotta fit the toilet when it gets to site and things like that, but I buy the kit. 349 00:24:19,452.4353741 --> 00:24:21,132.4353741 Takes two days to build all those modules. 350 00:24:22,132.4353741 --> 00:24:22,762.4353741 Two days. 351 00:24:22,915.4421769 --> 00:24:27,295.4421769 The modular building brief, prefab, it's been around for 30, 40 years. 352 00:24:27,595.4421769 --> 00:24:28,705.4421769 It never took off. 353 00:24:29,95.4421769 --> 00:24:32,20.4421769 Why is this gonna work? why it didn't take off. 354 00:24:32,180.4421769 --> 00:24:37,820.4421769 If you live in a big city, New York, Chicago, la, San Francisco, you are faced with union pressure. 355 00:24:38,690.4421769 --> 00:24:46,520.4421769 You are faced with individuals who, are scared of the next generation of things and, and, and, and risk that it's gonna lose their job. 356 00:24:47,450.4421769 --> 00:24:49,670.4421769 The same thing is happening in the power industry. 357 00:24:50,60.4421769 --> 00:24:57,380.4421769 Oil and gas is worried about the next gen technologies like solar, like nuclear, like other things, taking jobs with them. 358 00:24:58,130.4421769 --> 00:25:03,870.4421769 So the lobbyists who have massive power control it. 359 00:25:04,870.4421769 --> 00:25:11,490.4421769 A lot of modular builders run into hiccups with local certifications of their products because the state. 360 00:25:11,985.4421769 --> 00:25:30,175.4421769 Local governments have not put the time and effort into making this thing the, these certifications feasible and possible, right? I think that what you will see, and I do believe the current administration is looking at ways of cutting tape related to some of these certification processes. 361 00:25:30,175.4421769 --> 00:25:35,455.4421769 Now, I don't know if it's specific to modular, but I will tell you that there is a. 362 00:25:36,455.4421769 --> 00:25:47,495.4421769 When you look at manufactured housing or mobile homes, there's a, there's a HUD certification, right? And that made these things blow up back in the sixties seventies, right? And even today. 363 00:25:47,652.4353741 --> 00:25:47,862.4353741 yeah. 364 00:25:47,862.4353741 --> 00:25:50,922.4353741 Even today it's died off a little bit, you know what I mean? But. 365 00:25:51,237.4353741 --> 00:25:57,507.4353741 There is effort to make a similar modular home certification level. 366 00:25:58,400.4421769 --> 00:25:58,820.4421769 Mm-hmm. 367 00:25:59,217.4353741 --> 00:26:07,137.4353741 what you're gonna find is as more and more of these modular builders come into play, the cost will go down. 368 00:26:07,917.4353741 --> 00:26:15,657.4353741 One of the biggest driving costs that make modular not viable is travel or delivery, right? And cost of delivery and distance. 369 00:26:15,657.4353741 --> 00:26:23,37.4353741 So you really have to be within a couple hours to really, really make it viable unless your labor costs are just out of this world. 370 00:26:23,247.4353741 --> 00:26:30,77.4353741 I live in a small town which you wouldn't think costs would be high, but because there's so little labor here, and so only so few contractors. 371 00:26:30,887.4353741 --> 00:26:32,837.4353741 Cost from an hour away. 372 00:26:32,987.4353741 --> 00:26:41,17.4353741 Green Bay, Wisconsin, a big city can be nearly double at times, right? So I'm looking at this because it's speed. 373 00:26:41,77.4353741 --> 00:26:42,7.4353741 I got cold winters. 374 00:26:42,7.4353741 --> 00:26:49,837.4353741 I can build fast, I can hit, you know, I can put 50 homes on a lot in, in, in a month or two, If I get the concrete pads done and things like that. 375 00:26:49,837.4353741 --> 00:26:56,857.4353741 So I think as more and more of this comes as manufacturing, robotics, the push for onshoring of manufacturing. 376 00:26:57,397.4353741 --> 00:26:58,867.4353741 Start to increase. 377 00:26:59,357.4353741 --> 00:27:00,510.4421769 I think what you Mm-hmm. 378 00:27:00,527.4353741 --> 00:27:08,882.4353741 is you need that, those supply chains, right? Where are we getting our woods? Where are we getting our metals? But these Right? I I look at only metal, metal modular construction. 379 00:27:08,882.4353741 --> 00:27:10,322.4353741 I don't want wood, wood frames. 380 00:27:10,322.4353741 --> 00:27:13,52.4353741 I think wood frame is, is kind of way outdated at this point. 381 00:27:13,52.4353741 --> 00:27:16,65.4421769 We should not be using wood houses anymore, Mm-hmm. 382 00:27:16,412.4353741 --> 00:27:18,212.4353741 fire standards to longevity and things like that. 383 00:27:18,212.4353741 --> 00:27:21,302.4353741 But again, sorry, I'm, I'm getting a little out of the, out of the question here. 384 00:27:21,302.4353741 --> 00:27:24,962.4353741 As manufacturing ramps up, you won't be able to stop it. 385 00:27:25,962.4353741 --> 00:27:28,752.4353741 Is it the next couple years? Eh, I don't really think so. 386 00:27:29,152.4353741 --> 00:27:41,752.4353741 I think you're looking at the next five to 10 years, you will see a massive, and I, and I hope that the administration both current and, and next one to see this as, as a really, as the, really, the only way I think to solve our housing crisis. 387 00:27:42,142.4353741 --> 00:27:43,132.4353741 I don't think there's any other way. 388 00:27:43,132.4353741 --> 00:27:44,362.4353741 You will not do it by stick builders. 389 00:27:44,662.4353741 --> 00:27:44,992.4353741 No way. 390 00:27:45,992.4353741 --> 00:27:46,862.4353741 Fascinating stuff. 391 00:27:46,862.4353741 --> 00:27:47,402.4353741 That was great. 392 00:27:47,452.4353741 --> 00:27:48,442.4353741 This was no tangent. 393 00:27:48,492.4353741 --> 00:27:49,902.4353741 This is what we, what we need to hear. 394 00:27:50,22.4353741 --> 00:27:50,442.4353741 Thank you. 395 00:27:51,42.4353741 --> 00:27:51,462.4353741 Okay. 396 00:27:51,882.4353741 --> 00:27:55,272.4353741 Now we are going to wrap up with our LLC Close. 397 00:27:55,512.4353741 --> 00:28:02,259.4285714 I will ask you four questions that have an LLC acronym, And you'll shoot me your thoughts on it. 398 00:28:02,366.4217687 --> 00:28:04,909.4285714 oh, The first one is Lifelong Challenge. 399 00:28:05,359.4285714 --> 00:28:09,929.4285714 What challenge are you still working on today? oh. 400 00:28:10,679.4285714 --> 00:28:11,399.4285714 a better listener. 401 00:28:12,399.4285714 --> 00:28:13,869.4285714 Okay, I can relate to that. 402 00:28:14,869.4285714 --> 00:28:17,629.4285714 Next number two lesson learned clearly. 403 00:28:17,659.4285714 --> 00:28:22,369.4285714 Which lesson have you learned the hard way, but you, you nailed it. 404 00:28:22,369.4285714 --> 00:28:26,861.4217687 Yeah, I mean that's, this is you today, Oh, capital raising is really hard. 405 00:28:27,161.4217687 --> 00:28:31,716.4217687 I don't, I still haven't, I still haven't nailed it yet, so so that's a last decade challenge. 406 00:28:31,993.414966 --> 00:28:32,443.414966 Yes. 407 00:28:33,306.4217687 --> 00:28:37,759.4285714 Oh, well, you know, you came into the wrong market for capital raising, but I sure you'll be okay. 408 00:28:37,969.4285714 --> 00:28:42,111.4217687 I think if I can, I can, I can handle, you know, I can handle it at any point, so I dunno. 409 00:28:43,111.4217687 --> 00:28:46,801.4217687 you're unique enough, you're real enough and you're wise enough, so I'm not worried about that. 410 00:28:46,801.4217687 --> 00:28:48,421.4217687 It just takes time for the people to know you. 411 00:28:49,421.4217687 --> 00:28:51,41.4217687 Luck, leadership or choice. 412 00:28:51,101.4217687 --> 00:28:56,153.414966 What got you to where you got? Ooh, ooh, dang man. 413 00:28:56,243.414966 --> 00:28:57,83.414966 That's a good one. 414 00:28:58,83.414966 --> 00:28:59,823.414966 I'm gonna say choice. 415 00:29:00,823.414966 --> 00:29:13,253.414966 And I think the choice kind of into leadership, but I'm gonna say that choice was really, you know, back in 2008 I watched my engineering firm in New York City go from 130 people to about 30 people. 416 00:29:14,253.414966 --> 00:29:18,213.414966 Every week I came to the work, more and more people were getting laid off and I said something to myself. 417 00:29:18,213.414966 --> 00:29:20,943.414966 I said, I am never gonna get, I'm not gonna be one that gets laid off. 418 00:29:21,693.414966 --> 00:29:25,233.414966 I made a choice that I just started taking on any project I possibly could. 419 00:29:25,353.414966 --> 00:29:35,343.414966 And I learned probably in two years of engineering what most engineers don't in 10 years, and it's not, has nothing to do with me being, you know, better, better than somebody else. 420 00:29:35,343.414966 --> 00:29:44,73.414966 It has to do with, you know, in the world of, of, of jobs that have projects and, and clients you only get, you only get experience on the clients and the projects that you get. 421 00:29:44,943.414966 --> 00:29:46,803.414966 so the more access you have to a greater. 422 00:29:47,398.414966 --> 00:29:49,168.414966 Depth and breadth of, of projects. 423 00:29:49,168.414966 --> 00:29:50,698.414966 The more you can learn, the faster you can learn it. 424 00:29:51,68.414966 --> 00:29:59,968.414966 And I was just lucky to be in one of the, you know, the greatest cities in the world with access to projects that you know, you can't make a mistake when it comes to a New York City. 425 00:29:59,968.414966 --> 00:30:07,688.414966 High-rise, inches, millimeters mean, mean a lot, right? And, and you got some of the most skilled people in the world. 426 00:30:07,798.414966 --> 00:30:10,888.414966 I made a choice early on to put my, my suit down. 427 00:30:11,888.414966 --> 00:30:17,168.414966 and I still wore suits to job sites and things like that, but it was really not meant to look at myself as, as above these folks. 428 00:30:17,168.414966 --> 00:30:20,138.414966 And I, and I learned everything from tradespeople, everything. 429 00:30:20,948.414966 --> 00:30:25,598.414966 I, some of the greatest skills that I have today are because I, I did not pick it up from a book. 430 00:30:25,658.414966 --> 00:30:36,198.414966 I, I was taught by skilled plumbers, skilled welders, skilled duck, you know, duct, duct work, installers, things like that, right? These people are real world, real world. 431 00:30:37,198.414966 --> 00:30:37,548.414966 Right. 432 00:30:38,393.414966 --> 00:30:47,263.414966 And your lasting legacy carve out, what's that gonna be? Are you going to hit your goals with impact? Pulling for you that I can tell you. 433 00:30:48,50.4081633 --> 00:30:52,400.4081633 you know, I want to, I don't know what those goals, I, I gotta be honest, I don't know what those goals are. 434 00:30:52,510.4081633 --> 00:30:56,70.4081633 You know, I think, I hope that I think I can make, I, I hope that I make a mark. 435 00:30:56,820.4081633 --> 00:31:00,260.4081633 hope that I get people to look at impact as. 436 00:31:01,40.4081633 --> 00:31:06,810.4081633 You know, really just being smart with your money smart with what you're, what you're doing, and realizing. 437 00:31:06,870.4081633 --> 00:31:09,490.4081633 I think for investors. 438 00:31:10,180.4081633 --> 00:31:20,50.4081633 I think a lot of smaller time investors, you know, those with 10, 15, maybe $50,000, don't believe that their money is as powerful as it actually is. 439 00:31:20,110.4081633 --> 00:31:24,350.4081633 I think they look at people with hundreds, millions, billions. 440 00:31:25,70.4081633 --> 00:31:27,470.4081633 Yeah, those people invest, they get to move the market. 441 00:31:27,500.4081633 --> 00:31:30,170.4081633 They get to start the next startup. 442 00:31:30,250.4081633 --> 00:31:31,540.4081633 You know, I hate to break it to people. 443 00:31:31,540.4081633 --> 00:31:34,790.4081633 Do you know how many startups fail? a lot of them. 444 00:31:35,30.4081633 --> 00:31:35,660.4081633 A lot. 445 00:31:35,690.4081633 --> 00:31:36,80.4081633 A lot. 446 00:31:36,80.4081633 --> 00:31:36,350.4081633 A lot. 447 00:31:36,350.4081633 --> 00:31:36,560.4081633 A lot. 448 00:31:36,560.4081633 --> 00:31:37,190.4081633 A lot of them. 449 00:31:38,0.4081633 --> 00:31:41,23.414966 so realizing Almost all of them. 450 00:31:41,840.4081633 --> 00:31:42,140.4081633 yes. 451 00:31:42,140.4081633 --> 00:31:42,560.4081633 Thank you. 452 00:31:42,950.4081633 --> 00:31:45,443.414966 Better said, right? I, I, I want Right. 453 00:31:45,500.4081633 --> 00:31:46,820.4081633 realize that, you know. 454 00:31:47,820.4081633 --> 00:31:49,530.4081633 The money that you invest. 455 00:31:49,680.4081633 --> 00:31:57,270.4081633 If you, if you use it with intention and you put it towards something that means to you, you become powerful. 456 00:31:57,820.4081633 --> 00:31:59,560.4081633 And you have the power to influence. 457 00:31:59,620.4081633 --> 00:32:01,900.4081633 And, and I think that's really what impact investing about. 458 00:32:02,290.4081633 --> 00:32:03,790.4081633 It's just really changing that shift. 459 00:32:03,790.4081633 --> 00:32:04,120.4081633 Right. 460 00:32:04,670.4081633 --> 00:32:05,450.4081633 This was awesome. 461 00:32:05,450.4081633 --> 00:32:06,770.4081633 I really appreciate talking to you. 462 00:32:06,770.4081633 --> 00:32:10,100.4081633 You have spilled so much knowledge and so much insight here. 463 00:32:10,310.4081633 --> 00:32:10,910.4081633 It's incredible. 464 00:32:10,910.4081633 --> 00:32:11,853.414966 I well, I'm glad we So. 465 00:32:11,990.4081633 --> 00:32:12,290.4081633 office. 466 00:32:12,840.4081633 --> 00:32:14,160.4081633 It's been really great. 467 00:32:14,160.4081633 --> 00:32:14,640.4081633 Thank you. 468 00:32:14,850.4081633 --> 00:32:16,980.4081633 Thank you for sharing your expertise, your journey. 469 00:32:17,250.4081633 --> 00:32:20,190.4081633 It's all been fascinating and it, thank you all for listening. 470 00:32:20,240.4081633 --> 00:32:26,930.4081633 Well, thanks again for joining our podcast, and until next time, I'm svi, LLC, and this is John. 471 00:32:27,110.4081633 --> 00:32:28,340.4081633 Remember him? Mark him down. 472 00:32:28,460.4081633 --> 00:32:29,360.4081633 Follow him on LinkedIn. 473 00:32:29,360.4081633 --> 00:32:29,840.4081633 He's the man.