December 15, 2025 • 33 mins
New York buildings don’t fail because of bad intentions. They fail because of invisible waste, outdated systems, and volunteer boards forced to make complex decisions with limited time and information.
In this episode of Get Real. Get Wiser., we sit down with Tina Larson, co-founder of The Folson Group, to unpack what actually happens behind the scenes of New York co-ops and condos.
Tina shares how a financial analyst’s eye uncovered millions in cumulative savings, where buildings quietly bleed money, and how laws like Local Law 97 are reshaping operating decisions across the city.
We cover: • Where co-ops and condos most commonly overspend • Why boards struggle to control costs even with good property managers • What Local Law 97 really requires and where compliance goes wrong • Practical, non-disruptive upgrades that deliver real ROI • The difference between theoretical efficiency and real-world building operations
This is not a policy debate. It’s a ground-level look at how buildings actually function, and what smart operators do differently.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome back to Get Real.
Get Wiser.
New York has just turned the page.
Zoran Momani was elected mayor and one promising shakeup on affordability, sustainability, and housing.
And no one understands the real world impact of policy and energy laws on New York buildings.
Our guest today, she's the co-founder of the Folson Group, a firm that helps co-ops and condos uncover waste, cut costs and stay ahead of regulations like local law.
(00:27):
At 97, she's an analyst turned operator, a cost saver, turned educator, and yes, originally from Sweden.
Tina Larson, welcome to Get Real, get Wiser.
Thank you so much.
It's very exciting to be here.
I can think of more exciting places to be, but yeah, it's exciting.
Let's start with your story.
You began your career on Wall Street, managing money and analyzing numbers.
(00:50):
What made you pivot from portfolio management to property management? That is is a good question.
Okay, so I was analyzing multi-billion dollar businesses for the purpose of investing my client's money.
My husband and I owned a co-op.
The first few years we didn't pay attention, and then one day we said, why is the.
Maintenance increasing every single year when there's no inflation, This is right up our alley.
(01:16):
And my husband also worked on Wall Street at the time.
So we spoke with some of our neighbors and we thought to ourselves, this board must be doing a terrible job.
Spoke with some neighbors.
Org got together, organized a coup, took over the board.
Yes, big upset and the sole purpose of us taking over the board.
(01:42):
And I say us, I wasn't even on the board.
I was part of the coup, but I wasn't on the board.
My husband is on the board.
You can only be one from each department.
So.
They, the new board who knew as little about this as I did, they said to me, can you use your analytical skills and see if you can find some savings? Our sole, sole reason for running was to be more fiscally responsible.
(02:10):
I did what I know from Wall Street and with the board.
We, in collaboration, we were able to save our building $340,000.
Over the first three years, it was a sliding, Little bit of savings and a little more savings, and a little more savings.
And it's cumulative, so we counted it until was 2 million and then we stopped counting.
(02:34):
It's millions by now.
It's funded.
Lots of projects, upgrades new equipment, facades, roofs, all kinds of upgrades for this building that was built in the fifties numbers are exciting, but I like action.
Tell us about the coup.
They go, oh, it was a big upset.
(02:55):
The the attorney told us, these practice aren't valid.
We basically walked into the annual meeting with enough stack of proxies that had basically gotten these five individuals selected already walking in there.
then the attorney went like, oh, this is not valid, because I can't read their signature and this one is not valid because they didn't date it.
(03:21):
But three days later, the property manager called Mark my husband and said, yep, it's taking us a little longer to count, but you are all in.
Wow.
And the old board members were all part of the building.
They were all residents of the building.
and three of them.
So we had run four people because we needed majority.
(03:44):
Because Mark and I have a little bit of business sense, we knew that one person on the board is not gonna help anybody.
So if you're one person on the board, nothing is gonna get done.
You're wasting your time and everybody's gonna be against you.
So we said we need to have four seats on a board.
There were three of the incumbent board members who were still there.
(04:07):
So the first year was a little tricky.
The four board, new board members, they could get their things passed, but the other three were making it not so pleasant, but they got one of them to resign within a year.
Other two, they never ran the next time.
(04:27):
Strategically, they have found new board members and added new board members over time.
So that was 15 years ago, When you bump into them in the hallway, what happens? So one of them is no longer here.
One of them, she has avoided everybody for the last 14 years and one of them, she's gotten over it and she's nice.
(04:53):
Yeah.
People think in terms of business, but these are real world issues.
They, affect your daily life and they're not always so pleasant.
yes.
anyway, so when I was out introducing, when I was out networking, instead of introducing my assets myself as a financial advisor, you know how much in New York everybody wants, needs another financial advisor, right? Yes, that's what we're missing.
(05:17):
Yes.
In our lives.
So when I was out networking, I introduced myself as 17 and then I helped my co-op save $340,000.
And all these people said, oh, can I introduce you to my board? And I'm like, maybe you can.
So we set up business and it's gonna, in February, it's gonna be 12 years ago.
And we learned Don, those three years, we learned.
(05:41):
So boards of volunteers, they have, they live in a building they represent, so they're basically a little miniature government, right? They represent the owners then they have a full-time job.
They have family, they have hobbies.
hire a who is supposed to act on all of their decisions.
(06:04):
Right.
The, so the board doesn't have a lot of time, and in many cases they don't have the expertise of running a building.
I mean, a building is a very complex organization.
It's not like a simple Right.
firm where you have some Mm-hmm.
sales and some expenses.
This is a very ex, this is a very complex, Right.
(06:26):
We'll dive more into that later.
And then we have the fact that the, the buildings, in New York, they're very old.
sure there are some new condos, but all of those I don't even know how many buildings there are.
Lots and lots of buildings that were built prior to the sixties.
(06:47):
There was a huge building movement in fifties and the sixties.
Those are, they're, they have 70-year-old systems.
Right.
and then we have the other side.
So we have the property manager, their business, their business model is such that they have to have 6, 7, 8 buildings in order for them.
That's how they operate.
(07:09):
Which means it's like running 6, 7, 8 businesses.
I don't know about you, but I run one business and it is keeping me pretty busy so they don't have time to provide a support that the boards need.
So there's this void, and that's the void that we wanted to fill.
And initially we started with cost reduction only, but then we have listened to our clients and said, what else do you need? So now we do owner's rep for large projects very often, complicated projects, actually very often.
(07:45):
I spoke with a project manager the other day.
She said, oh, hopefully you start with a planning.
And I'm like, we never start with a planning.
We're always thrown in what they say.
It is such a mess and we can't get any answers and we can't get anything done.
So you need to take it over from here.
Okay.
Wow.
At what point you, so you started, you took over your own board and you weren't, you weren't on the board at the time.
(08:11):
So you were still working at that time on Wall Street.
How long did it take to transition and at what point did you say, wow, I think this could be a real business.
Let me shift my, let's, let's pivot and move out of Wall Street and onto let, let's make this, you know, a real business.
we did, so my business is with my husband 'cause we're the ones who, and hence the Folson group because my husband's last name is Foley and mine is Larson as a little side note.
(08:40):
So it became Folson.
And so we were working on Wall Street at the time, and we started in 2014 and 2019.
It was at the point where we said, this is so five years into it, and Five years.
(09:00):
Wow.
and then we had our own investment advisory firm and we actually.
Close and it was running, operating on like a runoff, so no new clients, but we were taking care and 2024 we closed shop.
Mm-hmm.
(09:20):
Mm-hmm.
Okay, now you're all in.
Yes.
let, let's go back a drop because not everybody's New Yorkers like you and I a lot of people outside of New York hear co-op and they picture an apartment building, but it's not that simple.
There's condos, there's co-ops.
Can you break down what the differences are and what the complexity of a co-op is? Yes.
So there are legal differences.
(09:45):
For my purposes, it doesn't matter to me for my purposes, it's typically that there I.
I've seen numbers of as low as 60% are co-ops and six and, but I just heard a number the other day where they said that it's 70%, so it's mostly in New York.
It's mostly co-ops and condos are typically buildings that were either converted or built after the So.
(10:17):
And then in Brooklyn, very often there are more condos than co-ops, but I think that that's because they have a converter later.
The difference for our purposes, for our purposes, there's no difference.
There's a board who represent, who makes decisions for legal and for owning and for subletting and for investing.
(10:40):
There's a difference.
So co-ops are more community oriented.
You can't sublet as easily some, there are always exceptions.
Every single thing that you do in life, there's always exceptions, right? any kind of classification.
So co-ops generally, you cannot sublet.
(11:03):
They have stricter rules when it comes to renovations and pets and.
et cetera, et cetera.
But some of it is, I mean, if you are a single person and you want a roommate, then there's New York law requires no matter where you live, to be able to have a roommate when it comes to condos.
(11:27):
So if you are an investor, you can buy a condo.
you never have to sit foot there and you can rent it out.
You can sublet it or rent it out to someone.
So that is Right, better for investment purposes.
If we have one building that's a co-op and another building that's a condo, they still share all the expenses.
(11:50):
So right.
need to do a roof replacement.
And we're able to re reduce the cost of that roof replacement, they're gonna have equal benefit, whether it's a co-op or a condo.
You find that board of co-ops work or have a different mindset than the board of a condo.
No, no, So to you, you wouldn't even know.
(12:13):
If you didn't see it would all be the same to you.
The the difference is that in a co-op.
Because it's one corporation, so it's one, and then they're shareholders.
And I refer to them as owners all the time because I mean, they're of something, right? That happens to be shares.
But so in a co-op, real estate taxes are included in your monthly dues.
(12:40):
So they're called maintenance.
And in maintenance it's.
The, the common expenses of the building, including real estate tax.
Whereas in a condo, you have common charges, which is the common expenses, Right.
then each individual unit owner their own tax bill.
(13:02):
So they have two expenses every month Right.
So I guess the difference is who owns the deed? In a condo, you have deed on your apartment, whereas a co-op, you just have shares in a corporation and you're entitled to use an apartment, which is why the rules could be stricter because you're not the actual owner of the apartment, And for me, it doesn't matter.
But the It doesn't matter.
(13:24):
I, that we need to look differently is if they have, if they have a land lease, if they actually do not own the land, because that makes.
The financials very different than that portion can be very, very large.
The rent of their land can be very large, but it's not very common.
(13:46):
It doesn't, I mean, it's nothing you can do about that.
Right.
That doesn't, that's not something you can work on that, that just Right.
So that doesn't affect you.
that's Normally lawyers are involved and I mean, we Okay.
we may might be able to re reduce the lease, but it's never been, it's not that common and it's never been something that we have worked out.
(14:10):
My guess is that they, it's litigation and stuff would be my guess.
Right.
Okay.
Let's talk about the law that's quietly shaking the city right now.
And that would be local law 97.
Is that correct? I mean, is that something that's a major issue today? is a major.
So, so for people who never heard of it, can you explain what it is and why it matters? Yes.
(14:31):
So local O 97 is a law that a bunch of council people passed in 2019 for New York to reduce their carbon emission.
And the law took effect last year with the first buildings being required.
(14:53):
To do their upgrades this year.
This year is actually the first year that anyone has to file and comply.
But it's not all buildings this year.
My buildings happens to me next year based on the data that some database the city has, they've determined that this building is next year, whereas this building is.
(15:18):
This year, the law applies to all buildings that are larger than 25,000 square feet.
If you have a four units little building brownstone, then you don't have to do anything.
And typically that's like.
20 something apartments.
Right? But it's not only apartments, it's co-ops, condos, rentals, it's commercial spaces.
(15:42):
It's all buildings in New York.
Affordable buildings are required to file this year, Mm-hmm.
and if they choose.
To do something called 13 measurements.
If they do all 13 of them before year end and filed, which was extended and extended and extended, now it's December 31st.
(16:09):
If they do all of that and comply this year, they never have to file anything and never have to do anything again.
If you were advising a midsize co-op or condo today, what's the checklist to get compliant without totally draining the reserves? Is this very expensive to, comply what's the costs? So it depends on the building because buildings have different systems, so.
(16:33):
I believe that over 80% of New York buildings, they use an old boiler, and that boiler is run either on oil or on gas or a combination thereof.
So most buildings, they have an old radiator, system.
Newer buildings typically have a P-Tech and they might have a cooling tower and they have central air many.
(16:56):
Or often.
so there's, so that's a very small percentage of buildings, but newer buildings are built like that.
Right.
fashioned buildings, and that's the buildings that we typically work with, they can, even if they go through a list of not the 13 measurements, but if they go through a list of strategic upgrades, they.
(17:24):
Can be very compliant.
So we have for not very big costs, we have worked with buildings and we have a list.
So we, we know that these are the ones that have a high ROI and short simple payback.
So when we see recommendations from other consultants, like, this sounds very good.
(17:47):
But that's not very practical.
let's do it this way instead.
So we want to do all the things that you can do in the boiler room, right? the, it's not intrusive if you have to do things inside of the apartments that can become very complicated, so, And expensive.
(18:09):
expensive.
And maybe not so feasible, et cetera.
so we start with a low hanging fruit.
If they haven't insulated their boiler or their boiler pipes, that's a, that has a very high ROI, typically less than a year, there's also something called local or 88, which is converting all light fixtures to LEDs.
(18:33):
We have been Right.
day one.
That was the first project that Mark and his, the new board completed in our own building Mm-hmm.
years ago.
It was the first big project that we did was to convert to all two LEDs on motion sensors.
And Very nice.
(18:54):
at the time, it provided like 50% savings.
Nowadays a lot of fixtures or bulbs have already been converted, but not everything has been converted.
So we went into Right.
of our clients, is two years ago, maybe.
They said to us, no, we've already converted all of our fixtures.
(19:16):
They're all LED.
We had someone in, they did all of this, and we went there with the electrician and we found, I it was 59 lights that were not LEDs.
Yeah, so, and local Always surprises.
is one of the things to convert to LEDs.
(19:37):
That is one of the things that we have been working for all of these years, and it traditionally has always been something that we was the first thing that we did for every single of our new clients as soon as they signed up for it or, or.
Engage does.
The first thing we did was that, but now because of local idea eight, it has to be done, which means that a lot of buildings have now done it or are in the process of doing it.
(20:04):
So it's no longer something that where we can add value unless we find the fixtures Actually.
Are there any w with the mayor, like Momani coming in, is anybody expecting any more local laws and different tightening of the rules? I don't know his position when it comes to that, in my opinion.
(20:25):
The city council that passed this in 2019, they were pretty aggressive and clearly they have no business sense because if you have any kind of understanding of how a building is run and any kind of compassion to any other people in any kind of business sense, then you would.
(20:49):
my opinion, not have passed that law in 2019.
So I guess they were run by the same boards that were running.
All the co-ops that didn't know what they were doing.
No.
believe that there are 51 council people in New York who voted for this law.
And I heard from PCCC, that's like the Queen's organization that represents since a very outspoken to assist co-ops and con co-op and condo boards.
(21:21):
organization, I overheard something on a podcast with them the other day where they said that there's less than four people who live in a co-op or a condo.
of those 51 people.
Typical disconnect of government from the reality on the ground.
So your firm has benchmark data across hundreds of buildings.
(21:43):
Where do you usually find the biggest hidden waste? Is it utilities, service contracts, insurance, or something else? The most common areas? Heating, water, electricity, and insurance.
Then So all of those.
yes, those are the four that are most common.
We find random savings for other buildings.
We look through all the financial statements and find random, let me give you an example.
(22:09):
We work in, worked in one building, a huge building.
They have a lot of stuff and amenities and stuff.
They had 20 phone lines.
Most buildings, they have one for the super's office, one for the doorman station, and one maybe for something in the basement.
They have three this BU or maybe elevator.
(22:31):
Also, building had 20 phone lines, so we called all of the 20 phone lines and then we ended up canceling 11 because they were not even in service.
Yeah.
Why were they put in the first place? Well, we don't know because we ended Right? so the building, that building was built in the eighties, I believe most likely.
(23:01):
Someone at the time thought that they needed a lot of phone lines, put in all the phone lines, and then they've just been paying for all of these phone lines all.
All these years, and we asked Verizon if they could track back and see any activity on those lines.
And they could not.
As the mayor and his, one of his big things are affordability and regulations, and that's gonna be a big piece of his no.
(23:24):
You know, if it is, What, what are the first ripples that you expect to affect what you do And the co-ops.
I feel very sorry for all the.
Rental property owners, especially the small buildings, because New York is so over-regulated when it comes to understanding that having being a small property owner of rental properties they're the ones who are gonna be hit.
(23:58):
It is rent regulated already.
right.
That is, and they were up fighting for being able to have some kind of increase this year, and they succeeded.
But they're the ones who are gonna be s squeezed.
Do you work with rental owners or only with co-ops and condos? do, but not very often very often they either don't have a lot of properties or don't have a lot of memes and they're, not very business heavy maybe, or maybe they are.
(24:36):
I would think the opposite.
Unlike the co-ops who things work with volunteers and on autopilot for decades, these guys are on top of the numbers because this is how they earn their living.
and we, we do get hired by those types of owners occasionally.
The ones that are most common are on a strategic advisory role.
(24:59):
So they might already have a property manager, or they might themselves be a property manager.
Right.
it comes to projects, so the large operators like the Glenwoods and those, they have project managers.
Within their firm, Right.
they typically haven't or they haven't hired us, Right.
(25:22):
but maybe we should do a shout Okay.
maybe they will.
I mean, we welcome Glenwood and all of those large firms.
We would love to help them reduce how much they pay for their project.
I'm sure you'll get a few customers just from that shout out.
Before we close, I wanna go back to your roots a little bit.
You grew up in Sweden, a country known for clean design, efficiency, and long-term planning.
(25:44):
When you look at New York's housing culture, the speed, the short-term thinking, the constant catchup, how does it compare to the Swedish approach? Number one, I've been here for 31 years, I go there twice a year to visit my family, but I'm not a hundred percent in tune with their thinking when it comes to Okay.
But.
I shop in Ikea and therefore I consider myself an expert on Sweden.
(26:07):
made a Swedish joke, so therefore I an expert.
That, so when I came here in 1994, I could not believe I moved into my apartment.
I could not believe that I didn't have a recycling.
I'm like, where do I throw this out? And he said, oh, right here.
And I'm like, everything.
(26:29):
I couldn't believe it.
I was walking down the sidewalk and people were throwing out stuff.
I'm like, excuse me, you dropped something, but And then you called back the people in Sweden and you said, wow, you guys gotta move to New York.
I have a great idea for you.
They figured out a way to just throw everything in the same trash can.
Nowadays they do that in Sweden because now they have the ones that sort things.
(26:53):
Right.
Nowadays it's different, so, but I remember.
When I used to go, the only person that I remember when I growing up, that I went to visit and I actually, I lived in an apartment.
My parents, we lived in apartment buildings the first two, three years, but I probably don't remember it, but I remember going to my grandmother's apartment and we were walking up the stairs, and as when you enter the door, lights are off, you have to press a button.
(27:26):
The lights came on and I remember being a little, I, I was very young.
I remember that when we pressed it, we had to run up in order for us to make it up to the next button.
Before that, lights on Right.
turned off.
And here the lights are on almost.
(27:46):
And even though now with local law 88, we always.
Advise boards, advise our clients on having lights on, motion sensors, and when you come into, when you open my door, the lights come on.
You don't, it's very tricky to see because it's very sensitive, so it goes on right away.
(28:09):
So unless I really try very hard, I can't see that they're actually off the saying, go down to the basement, elevators open up, and the lights go on.
But with local ID eight, they only have to be LEDs, so some electricians and they have to be on controls, but some electricians, they verify it.
(28:34):
They sign it at the station saying they're all LEDs, other electricians say they need to be on motion sensor.
So there's a disconnect between the interpretation of the same thing.
So therefore, my guess is that a lot of buildings are not gonna be on motion sensors.
Do you put all your buildings on motion sensors? Good for you.
(28:56):
Yeah.
Okay, now we're up to our LLC close, so I'm gonna ask you four questions, all of them with the acronym of LLC.
Are you ready? I I.
ready for.
Okay.
LLC, lifelong challenge.
What challenge have you been working with your, on your whole life, and you still haven't quite gotten there, but you hope to? One day I.
(29:21):
public speaking was to me.
And I have been working on it for I don't know how many years, I didn't really do anything about it until 2020 when I said, enough is enough.
I can't take this anymore.
I was terrible on Zoom I'm like, I can't do this anymore.
(29:45):
I have to do something about it.
So I did a few different things.
I, oh, so I hired a LinkedIn coach.
He said, you need to be on video.
I'm like, I don't wanna be on, I don't even wanna be on Zoom.
I don't wanna be on video.
So I said, how did you become so good at speaking? He said, I was on a hundred podcasts.
I'm like, well, that's way, one way of doing it.
(30:06):
And then I hired a speaking coach and then I wrote the book.
And because I wrote the book, I had to hold a book launch speech, which I did, I believe it was 12 minutes.
And my speaking coach me both developed a story and the speech and the presentation and my confidence and my this and whatever, and.
(30:29):
But I joined my speaking coach.
She has a once a week improv class on Zoom, and I've been doing that now for four and a half years.
Wow.
but there has been all of these different things that has led me to where I am right now.
And then I do did a standup comedy in the spring, and it's all part of the same, trying to be more confident as a speaker.
(30:57):
So where are you up to today? Two weeks ago I was on a stage after a two day retreat, and it felt pretty good.
Are you, you've turned the corner.
You're okay.
Luck.
Leadership or choice? How did you get to where you are today? Post What were the pivotal choices that you made in life that brought you here? Maybe a little bit of luck and a little bit of choice one moment we already talked about, how I took this experience and we did this coup We made it into something.
(31:31):
I feel very lucky we took a shot.
So that's one of them.
I used to be in the hospitality industry and a lot of people, they wanna be in the hospitality industry.
And then you're like, okay, do I really want to work every single holiday for hours? 'cause nobody else wants to.
(31:52):
So, and then I picked up my stuff and I moved to New York and I went back to school.
You definitely made some critical choices in your life and kudos to you for that last one.
Lasting legacy carve out.
When you look back at your career, what other things that you wanna feel good about that you want people to be able to say, this is what Tina's career was about.
(32:15):
This is what her life was about.
Supporting co-op and condo sports.
Okay, there you have it.
Thank you, Tina.
This has been a real eye-opening conversation.
You know, we talk with a lot of investors, but we don't get into the nitty gritty on the ground.
And we appreciate you coming and helping us understand what's going on behind the doors, behind the co-ops and how things are working.
(32:41):
It's great to have somebody like you with the Folson group, whoever wants to reach out and get their building, their ship in order.
You can reach out to Tina.
How can they reach you, Tina? Your website, it's www the folson with an n group.com.
I'm sure that we will put everything in the show notes, and I'm also very active LinkedIn, so feel free to reach out there too.
(33:09):
And don't forget that.
If, you know a board member, connect with 'em on LinkedIn, so they, they find me.
Great.
Thanks again for joining us on Get Real, get Wiser.
It's been a pleasure having you, Tina.
And remember, structure isn't just legal.
It's also cultural.
Every efficient system starts with an LLC, learn, lead, and comply.
(33:31):
Thank you everybody.
Okay.
We.
Welcome back to Get Real.
Get Wiser.
New York has just turned the page.
Zoran Momani was elected mayor and one promising shakeup on affordability, sustainability, and housing.
And no one understands the real world impact of policy and energy laws on New York buildings.
Our guest today, she's the co-founder of the Folson Group, a firm that helps co-ops and condos uncover waste, cut costs and stay ahead of regulations like local law.
(00:27):
At 97, she's an analyst turned operator, a cost saver, turned educator, and yes, originally from Sweden.
Tina Larson, welcome to Get Real, get Wiser.
Thank you so much.
It's very exciting to be here.
I can think of more exciting places to be, but yeah, it's exciting.
Let's start with your story.
You began your career on Wall Street, managing money and analyzing numbers.
(00:50):
What made you pivot from portfolio management to property management? That is is a good question.
Okay, so I was analyzing multi-billion dollar businesses for the purpose of investing my client's money.
My husband and I owned a co-op.
The first few years we didn't pay attention, and then one day we said, why is the.
Maintenance increasing every single year when there's no inflation, This is right up our alley.
(01:16):
And my husband also worked on Wall Street at the time.
So we spoke with some of our neighbors and we thought to ourselves, this board must be doing a terrible job.
Spoke with some neighbors.
Org got together, organized a coup, took over the board.
Yes, big upset and the sole purpose of us taking over the board.
(01:42):
And I say us, I wasn't even on the board.
I was part of the coup, but I wasn't on the board.
My husband is on the board.
You can only be one from each department.
So.
They, the new board who knew as little about this as I did, they said to me, can you use your analytical skills and see if you can find some savings? Our sole, sole reason for running was to be more fiscally responsible.
(02:10):
I did what I know from Wall Street and with the board.
We, in collaboration, we were able to save our building $340,000.
Over the first three years, it was a sliding, Little bit of savings and a little more savings, and a little more savings.
And it's cumulative, so we counted it until was 2 million and then we stopped counting.
(02:34):
It's millions by now.
It's funded.
Lots of projects, upgrades new equipment, facades, roofs, all kinds of upgrades for this building that was built in the fifties numbers are exciting, but I like action.
Tell us about the coup.
They go, oh, it was a big upset.
(02:55):
The the attorney told us, these practice aren't valid.
We basically walked into the annual meeting with enough stack of proxies that had basically gotten these five individuals selected already walking in there.
then the attorney went like, oh, this is not valid, because I can't read their signature and this one is not valid because they didn't date it.
(03:21):
But three days later, the property manager called Mark my husband and said, yep, it's taking us a little longer to count, but you are all in.
Wow.
And the old board members were all part of the building.
They were all residents of the building.
and three of them.
So we had run four people because we needed majority.
(03:44):
Because Mark and I have a little bit of business sense, we knew that one person on the board is not gonna help anybody.
So if you're one person on the board, nothing is gonna get done.
You're wasting your time and everybody's gonna be against you.
So we said we need to have four seats on a board.
There were three of the incumbent board members who were still there.
(04:07):
So the first year was a little tricky.
The four board, new board members, they could get their things passed, but the other three were making it not so pleasant, but they got one of them to resign within a year.
Other two, they never ran the next time.
(04:27):
Strategically, they have found new board members and added new board members over time.
So that was 15 years ago, When you bump into them in the hallway, what happens? So one of them is no longer here.
One of them, she has avoided everybody for the last 14 years and one of them, she's gotten over it and she's nice.
(04:53):
Yeah.
People think in terms of business, but these are real world issues.
They, affect your daily life and they're not always so pleasant.
yes.
anyway, so when I was out introducing, when I was out networking, instead of introducing my assets myself as a financial advisor, you know how much in New York everybody wants, needs another financial advisor, right? Yes, that's what we're missing.
(05:17):
Yes.
In our lives.
So when I was out networking, I introduced myself as 17 and then I helped my co-op save $340,000.
And all these people said, oh, can I introduce you to my board? And I'm like, maybe you can.
So we set up business and it's gonna, in February, it's gonna be 12 years ago.
And we learned Don, those three years, we learned.
(05:41):
So boards of volunteers, they have, they live in a building they represent, so they're basically a little miniature government, right? They represent the owners then they have a full-time job.
They have family, they have hobbies.
hire a who is supposed to act on all of their decisions.
(06:04):
Right.
The, so the board doesn't have a lot of time, and in many cases they don't have the expertise of running a building.
I mean, a building is a very complex organization.
It's not like a simple Right.
firm where you have some Mm-hmm.
sales and some expenses.
This is a very ex, this is a very complex, Right.
(06:26):
We'll dive more into that later.
And then we have the fact that the, the buildings, in New York, they're very old.
sure there are some new condos, but all of those I don't even know how many buildings there are.
Lots and lots of buildings that were built prior to the sixties.
(06:47):
There was a huge building movement in fifties and the sixties.
Those are, they're, they have 70-year-old systems.
Right.
and then we have the other side.
So we have the property manager, their business, their business model is such that they have to have 6, 7, 8 buildings in order for them.
That's how they operate.
(07:09):
Which means it's like running 6, 7, 8 businesses.
I don't know about you, but I run one business and it is keeping me pretty busy so they don't have time to provide a support that the boards need.
So there's this void, and that's the void that we wanted to fill.
And initially we started with cost reduction only, but then we have listened to our clients and said, what else do you need? So now we do owner's rep for large projects very often, complicated projects, actually very often.
(07:45):
I spoke with a project manager the other day.
She said, oh, hopefully you start with a planning.
And I'm like, we never start with a planning.
We're always thrown in what they say.
It is such a mess and we can't get any answers and we can't get anything done.
So you need to take it over from here.
Okay.
Wow.
At what point you, so you started, you took over your own board and you weren't, you weren't on the board at the time.
(08:11):
So you were still working at that time on Wall Street.
How long did it take to transition and at what point did you say, wow, I think this could be a real business.
Let me shift my, let's, let's pivot and move out of Wall Street and onto let, let's make this, you know, a real business.
we did, so my business is with my husband 'cause we're the ones who, and hence the Folson group because my husband's last name is Foley and mine is Larson as a little side note.
(08:40):
So it became Folson.
And so we were working on Wall Street at the time, and we started in 2014 and 2019.
It was at the point where we said, this is so five years into it, and Five years.
(09:00):
Wow.
and then we had our own investment advisory firm and we actually.
Close and it was running, operating on like a runoff, so no new clients, but we were taking care and 2024 we closed shop.
Mm-hmm.
(09:20):
Mm-hmm.
Okay, now you're all in.
Yes.
let, let's go back a drop because not everybody's New Yorkers like you and I a lot of people outside of New York hear co-op and they picture an apartment building, but it's not that simple.
There's condos, there's co-ops.
Can you break down what the differences are and what the complexity of a co-op is? Yes.
So there are legal differences.
(09:45):
For my purposes, it doesn't matter to me for my purposes, it's typically that there I.
I've seen numbers of as low as 60% are co-ops and six and, but I just heard a number the other day where they said that it's 70%, so it's mostly in New York.
It's mostly co-ops and condos are typically buildings that were either converted or built after the So.
(10:17):
And then in Brooklyn, very often there are more condos than co-ops, but I think that that's because they have a converter later.
The difference for our purposes, for our purposes, there's no difference.
There's a board who represent, who makes decisions for legal and for owning and for subletting and for investing.
(10:40):
There's a difference.
So co-ops are more community oriented.
You can't sublet as easily some, there are always exceptions.
Every single thing that you do in life, there's always exceptions, right? any kind of classification.
So co-ops generally, you cannot sublet.
(11:03):
They have stricter rules when it comes to renovations and pets and.
et cetera, et cetera.
But some of it is, I mean, if you are a single person and you want a roommate, then there's New York law requires no matter where you live, to be able to have a roommate when it comes to condos.
(11:27):
So if you are an investor, you can buy a condo.
you never have to sit foot there and you can rent it out.
You can sublet it or rent it out to someone.
So that is Right, better for investment purposes.
If we have one building that's a co-op and another building that's a condo, they still share all the expenses.
(11:50):
So right.
need to do a roof replacement.
And we're able to re reduce the cost of that roof replacement, they're gonna have equal benefit, whether it's a co-op or a condo.
You find that board of co-ops work or have a different mindset than the board of a condo.
No, no, So to you, you wouldn't even know.
(12:13):
If you didn't see it would all be the same to you.
The the difference is that in a co-op.
Because it's one corporation, so it's one, and then they're shareholders.
And I refer to them as owners all the time because I mean, they're of something, right? That happens to be shares.
But so in a co-op, real estate taxes are included in your monthly dues.
(12:40):
So they're called maintenance.
And in maintenance it's.
The, the common expenses of the building, including real estate tax.
Whereas in a condo, you have common charges, which is the common expenses, Right.
then each individual unit owner their own tax bill.
(13:02):
So they have two expenses every month Right.
So I guess the difference is who owns the deed? In a condo, you have deed on your apartment, whereas a co-op, you just have shares in a corporation and you're entitled to use an apartment, which is why the rules could be stricter because you're not the actual owner of the apartment, And for me, it doesn't matter.
But the It doesn't matter.
(13:24):
I, that we need to look differently is if they have, if they have a land lease, if they actually do not own the land, because that makes.
The financials very different than that portion can be very, very large.
The rent of their land can be very large, but it's not very common.
(13:46):
It doesn't, I mean, it's nothing you can do about that.
Right.
That doesn't, that's not something you can work on that, that just Right.
So that doesn't affect you.
that's Normally lawyers are involved and I mean, we Okay.
we may might be able to re reduce the lease, but it's never been, it's not that common and it's never been something that we have worked out.
(14:10):
My guess is that they, it's litigation and stuff would be my guess.
Right.
Okay.
Let's talk about the law that's quietly shaking the city right now.
And that would be local law 97.
Is that correct? I mean, is that something that's a major issue today? is a major.
So, so for people who never heard of it, can you explain what it is and why it matters? Yes.
(14:31):
So local O 97 is a law that a bunch of council people passed in 2019 for New York to reduce their carbon emission.
And the law took effect last year with the first buildings being required.
(14:53):
To do their upgrades this year.
This year is actually the first year that anyone has to file and comply.
But it's not all buildings this year.
My buildings happens to me next year based on the data that some database the city has, they've determined that this building is next year, whereas this building is.
(15:18):
This year, the law applies to all buildings that are larger than 25,000 square feet.
If you have a four units little building brownstone, then you don't have to do anything.
And typically that's like.
20 something apartments.
Right? But it's not only apartments, it's co-ops, condos, rentals, it's commercial spaces.
(15:42):
It's all buildings in New York.
Affordable buildings are required to file this year, Mm-hmm.
and if they choose.
To do something called 13 measurements.
If they do all 13 of them before year end and filed, which was extended and extended and extended, now it's December 31st.
(16:09):
If they do all of that and comply this year, they never have to file anything and never have to do anything again.
If you were advising a midsize co-op or condo today, what's the checklist to get compliant without totally draining the reserves? Is this very expensive to, comply what's the costs? So it depends on the building because buildings have different systems, so.
(16:33):
I believe that over 80% of New York buildings, they use an old boiler, and that boiler is run either on oil or on gas or a combination thereof.
So most buildings, they have an old radiator, system.
Newer buildings typically have a P-Tech and they might have a cooling tower and they have central air many.
(16:56):
Or often.
so there's, so that's a very small percentage of buildings, but newer buildings are built like that.
Right.
fashioned buildings, and that's the buildings that we typically work with, they can, even if they go through a list of not the 13 measurements, but if they go through a list of strategic upgrades, they.
(17:24):
Can be very compliant.
So we have for not very big costs, we have worked with buildings and we have a list.
So we, we know that these are the ones that have a high ROI and short simple payback.
So when we see recommendations from other consultants, like, this sounds very good.
(17:47):
But that's not very practical.
let's do it this way instead.
So we want to do all the things that you can do in the boiler room, right? the, it's not intrusive if you have to do things inside of the apartments that can become very complicated, so, And expensive.
(18:09):
expensive.
And maybe not so feasible, et cetera.
so we start with a low hanging fruit.
If they haven't insulated their boiler or their boiler pipes, that's a, that has a very high ROI, typically less than a year, there's also something called local or 88, which is converting all light fixtures to LEDs.
(18:33):
We have been Right.
day one.
That was the first project that Mark and his, the new board completed in our own building Mm-hmm.
years ago.
It was the first big project that we did was to convert to all two LEDs on motion sensors.
And Very nice.
(18:54):
at the time, it provided like 50% savings.
Nowadays a lot of fixtures or bulbs have already been converted, but not everything has been converted.
So we went into Right.
of our clients, is two years ago, maybe.
They said to us, no, we've already converted all of our fixtures.
(19:16):
They're all LED.
We had someone in, they did all of this, and we went there with the electrician and we found, I it was 59 lights that were not LEDs.
Yeah, so, and local Always surprises.
is one of the things to convert to LEDs.
(19:37):
That is one of the things that we have been working for all of these years, and it traditionally has always been something that we was the first thing that we did for every single of our new clients as soon as they signed up for it or, or.
Engage does.
The first thing we did was that, but now because of local idea eight, it has to be done, which means that a lot of buildings have now done it or are in the process of doing it.
(20:04):
So it's no longer something that where we can add value unless we find the fixtures Actually.
Are there any w with the mayor, like Momani coming in, is anybody expecting any more local laws and different tightening of the rules? I don't know his position when it comes to that, in my opinion.
(20:25):
The city council that passed this in 2019, they were pretty aggressive and clearly they have no business sense because if you have any kind of understanding of how a building is run and any kind of compassion to any other people in any kind of business sense, then you would.
(20:49):
my opinion, not have passed that law in 2019.
So I guess they were run by the same boards that were running.
All the co-ops that didn't know what they were doing.
No.
believe that there are 51 council people in New York who voted for this law.
And I heard from PCCC, that's like the Queen's organization that represents since a very outspoken to assist co-ops and con co-op and condo boards.
(21:21):
organization, I overheard something on a podcast with them the other day where they said that there's less than four people who live in a co-op or a condo.
of those 51 people.
Typical disconnect of government from the reality on the ground.
So your firm has benchmark data across hundreds of buildings.
(21:43):
Where do you usually find the biggest hidden waste? Is it utilities, service contracts, insurance, or something else? The most common areas? Heating, water, electricity, and insurance.
Then So all of those.
yes, those are the four that are most common.
We find random savings for other buildings.
We look through all the financial statements and find random, let me give you an example.
(22:09):
We work in, worked in one building, a huge building.
They have a lot of stuff and amenities and stuff.
They had 20 phone lines.
Most buildings, they have one for the super's office, one for the doorman station, and one maybe for something in the basement.
They have three this BU or maybe elevator.
(22:31):
Also, building had 20 phone lines, so we called all of the 20 phone lines and then we ended up canceling 11 because they were not even in service.
Yeah.
Why were they put in the first place? Well, we don't know because we ended Right? so the building, that building was built in the eighties, I believe most likely.
(23:01):
Someone at the time thought that they needed a lot of phone lines, put in all the phone lines, and then they've just been paying for all of these phone lines all.
All these years, and we asked Verizon if they could track back and see any activity on those lines.
And they could not.
As the mayor and his, one of his big things are affordability and regulations, and that's gonna be a big piece of his no.
(23:24):
You know, if it is, What, what are the first ripples that you expect to affect what you do And the co-ops.
I feel very sorry for all the.
Rental property owners, especially the small buildings, because New York is so over-regulated when it comes to understanding that having being a small property owner of rental properties they're the ones who are gonna be hit.
(23:58):
It is rent regulated already.
right.
That is, and they were up fighting for being able to have some kind of increase this year, and they succeeded.
But they're the ones who are gonna be s squeezed.
Do you work with rental owners or only with co-ops and condos? do, but not very often very often they either don't have a lot of properties or don't have a lot of memes and they're, not very business heavy maybe, or maybe they are.
(24:36):
I would think the opposite.
Unlike the co-ops who things work with volunteers and on autopilot for decades, these guys are on top of the numbers because this is how they earn their living.
and we, we do get hired by those types of owners occasionally.
The ones that are most common are on a strategic advisory role.
(24:59):
So they might already have a property manager, or they might themselves be a property manager.
Right.
it comes to projects, so the large operators like the Glenwoods and those, they have project managers.
Within their firm, Right.
they typically haven't or they haven't hired us, Right.
(25:22):
but maybe we should do a shout Okay.
maybe they will.
I mean, we welcome Glenwood and all of those large firms.
We would love to help them reduce how much they pay for their project.
I'm sure you'll get a few customers just from that shout out.
Before we close, I wanna go back to your roots a little bit.
You grew up in Sweden, a country known for clean design, efficiency, and long-term planning.
(25:44):
When you look at New York's housing culture, the speed, the short-term thinking, the constant catchup, how does it compare to the Swedish approach? Number one, I've been here for 31 years, I go there twice a year to visit my family, but I'm not a hundred percent in tune with their thinking when it comes to Okay.
But.
I shop in Ikea and therefore I consider myself an expert on Sweden.
(26:07):
made a Swedish joke, so therefore I an expert.
That, so when I came here in 1994, I could not believe I moved into my apartment.
I could not believe that I didn't have a recycling.
I'm like, where do I throw this out? And he said, oh, right here.
And I'm like, everything.
(26:29):
I couldn't believe it.
I was walking down the sidewalk and people were throwing out stuff.
I'm like, excuse me, you dropped something, but And then you called back the people in Sweden and you said, wow, you guys gotta move to New York.
I have a great idea for you.
They figured out a way to just throw everything in the same trash can.
Nowadays they do that in Sweden because now they have the ones that sort things.
(26:53):
Right.
Nowadays it's different, so, but I remember.
When I used to go, the only person that I remember when I growing up, that I went to visit and I actually, I lived in an apartment.
My parents, we lived in apartment buildings the first two, three years, but I probably don't remember it, but I remember going to my grandmother's apartment and we were walking up the stairs, and as when you enter the door, lights are off, you have to press a button.
(27:26):
The lights came on and I remember being a little, I, I was very young.
I remember that when we pressed it, we had to run up in order for us to make it up to the next button.
Before that, lights on Right.
turned off.
And here the lights are on almost.
(27:46):
And even though now with local law 88, we always.
Advise boards, advise our clients on having lights on, motion sensors, and when you come into, when you open my door, the lights come on.
You don't, it's very tricky to see because it's very sensitive, so it goes on right away.
(28:09):
So unless I really try very hard, I can't see that they're actually off the saying, go down to the basement, elevators open up, and the lights go on.
But with local ID eight, they only have to be LEDs, so some electricians and they have to be on controls, but some electricians, they verify it.
(28:34):
They sign it at the station saying they're all LEDs, other electricians say they need to be on motion sensor.
So there's a disconnect between the interpretation of the same thing.
So therefore, my guess is that a lot of buildings are not gonna be on motion sensors.
Do you put all your buildings on motion sensors? Good for you.
(28:56):
Yeah.
Okay, now we're up to our LLC close, so I'm gonna ask you four questions, all of them with the acronym of LLC.
Are you ready? I I.
ready for.
Okay.
LLC, lifelong challenge.
What challenge have you been working with your, on your whole life, and you still haven't quite gotten there, but you hope to? One day I.
(29:21):
public speaking was to me.
And I have been working on it for I don't know how many years, I didn't really do anything about it until 2020 when I said, enough is enough.
I can't take this anymore.
I was terrible on Zoom I'm like, I can't do this anymore.
(29:45):
I have to do something about it.
So I did a few different things.
I, oh, so I hired a LinkedIn coach.
He said, you need to be on video.
I'm like, I don't wanna be on, I don't even wanna be on Zoom.
I don't wanna be on video.
So I said, how did you become so good at speaking? He said, I was on a hundred podcasts.
I'm like, well, that's way, one way of doing it.
(30:06):
And then I hired a speaking coach and then I wrote the book.
And because I wrote the book, I had to hold a book launch speech, which I did, I believe it was 12 minutes.
And my speaking coach me both developed a story and the speech and the presentation and my confidence and my this and whatever, and.
(30:29):
But I joined my speaking coach.
She has a once a week improv class on Zoom, and I've been doing that now for four and a half years.
Wow.
but there has been all of these different things that has led me to where I am right now.
And then I do did a standup comedy in the spring, and it's all part of the same, trying to be more confident as a speaker.
(30:57):
So where are you up to today? Two weeks ago I was on a stage after a two day retreat, and it felt pretty good.
Are you, you've turned the corner.
You're okay.
Luck.
Leadership or choice? How did you get to where you are today? Post What were the pivotal choices that you made in life that brought you here? Maybe a little bit of luck and a little bit of choice one moment we already talked about, how I took this experience and we did this coup We made it into something.
(31:31):
I feel very lucky we took a shot.
So that's one of them.
I used to be in the hospitality industry and a lot of people, they wanna be in the hospitality industry.
And then you're like, okay, do I really want to work every single holiday for hours? 'cause nobody else wants to.
(31:52):
So, and then I picked up my stuff and I moved to New York and I went back to school.
You definitely made some critical choices in your life and kudos to you for that last one.
Lasting legacy carve out.
When you look back at your career, what other things that you wanna feel good about that you want people to be able to say, this is what Tina's career was about.
(32:15):
This is what her life was about.
Supporting co-op and condo sports.
Okay, there you have it.
Thank you, Tina.
This has been a real eye-opening conversation.
You know, we talk with a lot of investors, but we don't get into the nitty gritty on the ground.
And we appreciate you coming and helping us understand what's going on behind the doors, behind the co-ops and how things are working.
(32:41):
It's great to have somebody like you with the Folson group, whoever wants to reach out and get their building, their ship in order.
You can reach out to Tina.
How can they reach you, Tina? Your website, it's www the folson with an n group.com.
I'm sure that we will put everything in the show notes, and I'm also very active LinkedIn, so feel free to reach out there too.
(33:09):
And don't forget that.
If, you know a board member, connect with 'em on LinkedIn, so they, they find me.
Great.
Thanks again for joining us on Get Real, get Wiser.
It's been a pleasure having you, Tina.
And remember, structure isn't just legal.
It's also cultural.
Every efficient system starts with an LLC, learn, lead, and comply.
(33:31):
Thank you everybody.
Okay.
We.
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