October 28, 2025 • 42 mins
Grandparents are God’s good design for the family, not an afterthought. In this episode, Josh and Jen Mulvihill explore the vital role grandparents play in passing on faith and supporting parents in discipleship. You’ll hear stories from their own families, practical encouragement for parents, and biblical truth about the influence of grandparents.
Whether you’re a parent navigating grandparent relationships, a future grandparent thinking ahead, or a pastor seeking to equip families, this conversation offers clarity and hope. Discover what the Bible says about grandparents, how to handle family conflict wisely, and why opening the door for godly grandparents can strengthen the faith of the next generation.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I'm Josh and I'm Jen.
Welcome to the GospelShaped Family podcast.
Each episode brings biblical wisdomand practical conversations
on parenting, marriage, and family,and we discuss
how to disciple the next generationwith a biblical worldview.
Whether you're raising children,shepherding a church, or longing
(00:20):
to build a legacy of faith in your home,this podcast is for you.
Join us as we explore how to shape hearts,homes, and churches around the gospel,
one conversation at a time.
Hey everyone!
Welcome back to the GospelSheep Family Podcast episode seven.
All right.This is going to be a great one today.
(00:40):
Yeah.
Today we're talking about partneringwith grand parents,
which is such a fun topic.
Grandparents are the best.
I think.
But before we jump into content,just tell me about your grandparents.
So I had four.
I love Josh's grandparents.
They were so wonderful.
(01:02):
Okay. You share?
Yes. So,
my grandparents were.
Both of them were,married beyond 50 years?
Yeah.
And I think that was one of the mostamazing legacies that they left.
Was just a faithful marriage that built,
kind of a healthy family culture.
(01:23):
Of course, they valued family.
They both.
They all lived in the same farm,
in the same city in Rochester,just a few miles from each other.
So we would when we would go to seegrandparents, you'd see everybody
all year, all of them,and jump from one to the other.
So my grandparents, at one set
I would think was Christians and,
(01:45):
you know, they, they,I would say taught good values.
We would go stay with them,
one week
per summer andthey'd kind of do some fun stuff with us.
And I have a lot of great memorieswith that.
Another one.
I think they were Catholic, andI don't know if they became Christians.
I don't I don't think they did.
(02:06):
But you and I, when we gotmarried, would spend quite a bit of time
with them playing cards and,being with them, which I, which I value.
But during my growing up years, I didn't
have they didn't my grandparentsdidn't have a huge presence in my life.
We lived.
I grew up in Texas and didn'tmove to Minnesota until my teen years.
(02:26):
And so all my family's in Minnesota.
And so this didn't have a huge presence.
And my one set was, they're snowbirds.
So they'd go to Arizona in usuallyin January right after Christmas and stay
till about May, usually early May when,you know, it's nice here in Minnesota.
(02:46):
And, you know, when I was a kid,I didn't think anything of that.
Now that I'm adult and I've done alot in the grandparent world,
you know, the, the
reality of that situation was theythey traded,
a pretty significant influencein our lives and families lives
for comfortand warm weather and friends. And,
(03:10):
and it's not that you can't do bothand kind of live
at a distance and have a, relationship,but am I, in my experience, that
we largely didn't see or hear from?
They just didn't have a presencein our life during, during those times.
So, but I love them dearly, of course.
And, grateful for the grandparentsGod gave and.
(03:32):
Yeah.
How about you?
Oh, my goodness, I loved my grandparents.
My grandparents have all passed.
I had again,just like you for grandparents.
Intact family.
Intact family.
Yeah.
So we were always super close with my,well, with both sets of grandparents,
but I was personally closerwith my dad's parents.
(03:53):
They went through a season where they,like, lived with us for a while.
They, which was so wonderful.
And so it was years rice years.
And for a while I you take, you see, like,
13 years.
It was great.
And even when I was little,
I would get off the bus and my,I would go home to my grandparents house.
(04:15):
And so my grandma would have, like,fresh cookies every day.
Just,I mean, hundreds and hundreds of hours
spent with my grandparentson my dad's side.
And so our relationships were alwaysreally tight, super influential.
On my mom's side, that my grandparents,
I mean, they had eight childrenand a big family.
(04:37):
My grandma was like,the matriarch of the family and,
you know, just very much loved. And.
Yeah, so just talking about grandparentsand having the opportunity to shape, like,
what does it look liketo be have Christian grandparents
or to partner with grandparents,no matter how old your kids are,
whether they're little or even,they're a little bit older.
(04:58):
And just like deepeningthose relationships is such a fun topic.
I just have nothing but the warmest,
feelings for grandparents, I love that.
So Josh,
I can't wait to be a grandma someday.
I, I'm not sure how many moms
in this season of parenting or dads
(05:21):
think about wanting to be a grandparentsomeday, but I am.
I mean, we're a ways off, but I'm alreadylike, really excited for that day.
So when we get to be grandparents,what do you want your grandpa name to be?
What do you think about the names
Lolly and Pop?
(05:43):
I almost just said no.
What what what what whatwhat did you like about that?
I just for me, it's cool for youbecause you'd be pop.
But that makes me lolly.
LOL. Okay, so.
All right.
I mean, I know some peoplethat actually have those names.
(06:05):
Sure.
Yeah.
Okay,so when I, when my mind goes to people
named Lolly and Pop,I would just want to hug them.
I don't know them,but they seem like super huggable.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Are they?
Yeah.
Just super sweet people. Yeah.They're great.
Well, what what do you wantyour grandma named?
Since you obviously have somethingin mind.
I, I it is a no brainer.
(06:26):
Grammy having me for you with a why?
Well, okay,so my mom was Grammy with a Y, and then
Grammy Pammy, who is our kids?
Grandma Josh is dad's wife.
Pam. My mom died.
My dad. His mom died,and he got remarried.
But the like our kids, I mean,Pam has been around for a long time now.
(06:50):
I mean, since Kate was.
She came to the hospitaland Kate was born in 15 years.
And sothat's like, who the kids know is Grammy.
They call her Grammy family,but she's Grammy iy, and.
But I going to be Grammy with the Y.
Grammy with the one with the y'all, right?
Yeah, I have no idea.
I don't knowif grandkids are going to name
(07:11):
what happens if they name yousomething different than Grammy.
What if they.
No, no, no.
Then I'll be like, oh,excuse me, it's Grammy.
Okay. All right.
No no no no no.
They'll get itbecause I'll, I'll be like this.
Like for all the things, I'll be likeall Grammys.
Can I get that for you?
I'll talk. I'll refer to myselfin the third person.
I would love to know what people eitherhave as their
(07:35):
grandparent namethat are listening, or want to be called.
You should leave that in the commentsand leave a comment.
What is your grandparent?
I need some ideas, honestly.
So give me some ideas on what should the,what should our
what should my grandparent name be?What should his grand?
I don't know if I have have that set yet,but you know the average age.
How old how old are you?
(07:56):
I said, yes, I am 47, 47.
Okay.
Do you know the average age that somebodybecomes a grandparent for the first time?
Their firstfirst grandchild born is 47 to 53 start.
So you are like, I'm there.
We if you're watching on video yearsthe stereotype is obviously like gray hair
(08:18):
with you know, with the cane and on the
but that's,that's like a great grandparent.
Yeah.
We're literallywhat you're looking at is like,
this is what is grandparent agefor the first time.
Grandparent. Yeah.
Or younger we'd be young grandparents.
But that could happen.
And in six years it could happen.
Yeah, we could hit that.
Bring it on, bring it on.
(08:39):
That sounds fun.
I saved, like, the baby cribfrom our kids.
You're right.
You saved it for future grandkids.
You been hanging on to that for a while.
Because when we had grandkids
or when we had kids,my mom set up a nursery at her house.
Like, that was one legit full nursery.
And so I knew I want a full nurserywhen we have grandkids with the same crib.
(09:05):
I mean, that sounds great.
Well all right. Okay.
Well, so Josh, you've written some booksabout Grandparenting.
You're seen largely as a grandparentingexpert in Christian grandparenting.
So what might listeners who are listeningtoday who are not grandparents,
if you're a parent but not a grandparent,what can you been?
(09:28):
Well,
how will they benefit from listeningto our podcast about Grandparenting today?
So one of the big takeaways is
that grandparents are the number two,
the potential numbertwo influence in your child's life.
And if you're a grandparent,you are the number two influence.
And that's by God's design.
(09:50):
You God created, two parentsand then multiple
grandparents as the,
as partners with the same goal
but different rolesin the life of a child.
And, you know, as parents,we have five, of course.
Tough day to raise kids,not easy to help them
(10:12):
walk all their days with Jesus Christ.
I'll take all the help I can get.
And grandparents are God'sdesign mechanism.
To to provide that they also whenthe family breaks down and has problems,
God's
literally built in a safety netand a support system
and that is, you know, that's,that's grandparents.
(10:34):
I would say also, one of the thingsthat people can take away
from here is you will be a grandparentif you have kids,
it's like the percentage chancethat you'll be a grandparent is like,
it's like 95 or 98%or I mean, it's like a virtual lock.
Yeah.
And so at some point you will be in,you know, you
(10:54):
if you got really little kids,it feels like an eternity away.
But at some pointyou will be in those shoes
and then you want clarity around what,what does this look like from,
you know, from Scriptureas far as the role. Yeah.
And the last one I'll mention is, your
your role right now as a steward.
God's giving you stewardshipof your children as a parent.
(11:18):
And that's a good thing.
You're the gatekeeper to your childrenfrom your grand, from their grandparents.
And if God has given grandparentsa role with grandchildren, they're.
I think it's appropriate,
to open that gateand allow godly grandparents to notice.
(11:41):
I say godly, godlygrandparents to have a presence
and a roleand an impact in the grandchild's life.
Obviouslythere needs to be boundaries at times.
If the if the, if, if godly isn't thereand it's damaging and problematic and,
you know, we could talk all aboutall kinds of family dynamics that,
(12:02):
generally, you know, I just statinggeneralities doesn't apply to but
but in general, I believe ithonors the Lord to open the gate.
And I hear from a lot of grandparents
that grandchildren have been weaponizedagainst them and just,
the heartache and the sadness
(12:25):
that is communicated that I, you know,I don't have a relationship with them.
We have we have,
one of the staff
members, one of my colleaguesat Renew Nation,
during our prayer time,most months talks about,
you know, in the last few months,she's talked about how she hasn't seen her
(12:46):
granddaughter in, you know, six monthsand just you can just hear the pain.
And, that is almost an epidemic
in our world today, in our culture.
And so I will just say,just recognize that,
that that, you know,God's given that role to grandparents.
So we want,
(13:06):
we want to be wise with opening the gate,but we also want to be, doing
so in a way that honorsthe Lord and invites
godly grandparents into have a have a presence and have a role.
Yeah. That's great.
So we're obviously not grandparents yet.
But you wrote,
a number of resourceson Grandparenting seven books.
(13:26):
So share Josh with our listenershow you got there.
And just a little bit of your storyon the Grandparenting
just going I was at Southern BaptistTheological Seminary,
going through PhD in Family Ministry,and I read something in one of my
(13:46):
on the books, a million bookshave you read in a PhD world?
Grandparenting.
And I thought, I never really I'veeverything I was thinking about for family
ministry was all helping parentsdisciple their kids.
I've never, like,never even consider mine.
Yeah, yeah. I'll meet you. Yeah, yeah.
Immediate familynever even crossed my mind.
Like grandparents.
(14:08):
And I like the thought flashed
across my mind like, well,I'm sure there's just a mountain of stuff
out there for Christian grandparents,just like there is for Christian parents.
And so I, I asked one of my professors,do you know what are like, the best
resources for Christian grandparentsto help them do what God's called them to?
(14:29):
And, my professor said to me,I really don't actually even know.
You should, like,do a little bit of research and
and let me know, like, report back.
And so I, you know, I just looked around,I was shocked at how little there was.
So at the time, there was one ministry
that existed in the entire worldspecifically for Christian grandparents.
(14:51):
It's calledthe Christian Grandparent Network,
which is now under our ministryat Renew Nation.
That we justthey came under our, organization here
not too long ago,which is really, God's providence.
That's crazy.And Kevin Harper started that.
Sheriff Shuman was CEO recently,and just wonderful ministry.
(15:14):
And Sherry's part
of our team nowand think really highly of Kevin.
There were seven books that I could findthat was that was literally it
for Christian grandparents.
And they were almost all self-publishedand mostly on prayer.
So they're some of them are really hardto find because,
at the time, self-published books,weren't as easily
(15:35):
found as they are today on Amazonand other sites. And,
and I couldn't find a single church
in the United Statesthat was doing anything
to support, equip, even talkingabout Grandparenting in their church.
Not a not a small group,not a sermon, not literally nothing.
(15:59):
And, you know, you think about as parents,what if the church
you were going to literally ignoredparenting completely?
Never, never really didanything, said anything, equipped
you, helpedyou, supported you in that role.
It's such a huge presence in our life
as parents, and as grandparents people.
(16:22):
You know, most people are a grandparentfor literally about 50% of their life.
It is almost half of their is that,
I suppose, with that statisticit takes up about half of their life.
And and so I, I looked at census numbers,
US census numbers and kind of extrapolatedsome things from that.
And my, my best guessis that there's approximately 30 million
(16:46):
Christian grandparentsin the United States alone.
And so you think about I sawI saw the need.
I looked at the numbers and thought, wow,
this is a huge groupthat really needs to capture
a biblical vision and be resourced
in, in how to impact their family.
(17:08):
The average
grandparent has between 5and 6 grandchildren.
So you could do the math in your head.
Let's say all 30 of the million,they're not all married.
But, you know, let's say two thirds ofthose are couples, but times 5 to 6.
I mean, you're talking 100,a couple hundred million
children in the United States that,
(17:30):
that grandparents could have aan increased
intentional impact in their life,that is that's significant.
And so an impact that hadn't been ithadn't been charted.
The path had not been. No.
And they, you know,in the publishing world, they say
the kiss of deathis to go into a publisher and say,
(17:53):
nobody has ever written on this. Yeah.
They call it blue ocean, red ocean. And,
and I literally was I went in
to the publisher, PublicChristian Publishers, you know, Moody and,
Bethany House,who I ended up publishing with and I could
list, like, all the major publisherswere flying me in.
And it was pretty easy to make a case.
(18:15):
And, you know, I said to them,this hasn't been written on.
And they actually were like,you're right, it isn't.
Oh my goodness,I can't believe there's this.
Like this untouched.
It's pretty rare to findthose kinds of things in the world today.
It was a gaping hole. Yeah.
And so that was boy, thatso I started that process in about 2009.
(18:37):
So now it's been,you know, 15, 16 years. And,
I was I had been working on thisfor a number of years,
just quietly in my study,
day, you know, week after week,knowing this is coming
and it's going to havea really big impact, more than likely.
But sitting on it for a few years,and then once, once,
(19:00):
you know, it was publishedwith Bethany House and a few others,
it was just fun to seehow God has used that to really create
a Christian Grandparenting movement.
And that's still is gaining momentum. But,
yeah.
So God, for some reason decided,
open my eyes, a non grandparent to the
(19:21):
this and it's been been a fun ride.
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(19:43):
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Now back to the show.
Well, before we get intowhat the Bible says about Grandparenting,
I'd love for you just to address,
what societyhas to say about Grandparenting,
(20:06):
and how that
sort of affectingintergenerational relationships today.
And justwhat are some of the things you're seeing?
So let me ask you a question.
Okay.
When I say family,what do you think of in your mind?
Family. Well, yeah.
Just any anybody listening?
(20:26):
Like most people think of,like, mom and dad, parents and children.
The kids.
Yeah. And, But I'm married to you.
So I think about grandparents. Yes.
You think that way?
Most people think most people do.
Family and immediate.
And that's largelyhow the church has defined family.
Oh, yeah.
Family ministry has been defined that way.
And so.
(20:47):
But that's not how the Bible definesfamily.
The Bible doesn't define familyin immediate terms.
It defines it in, extended family terms,including grandparents and others.
You know, you could
put on some uncles and,you know, in that category as well.
But it our just,
our very definition of familyis just a little too narrow.
(21:10):
And that's dangerous to say today
in our culture,if you take that clip out of context.
No, I don't mean LGBTQ.
I mean, you know,marriage is one man, one woman for life.
But it includes in the discipleshipof children more than just parents.
And so wewe aren't even thinking scripturally
(21:31):
at the most basic,foundational level of what a family is.
And, and most Christian grandparentson top of that,
they think they are good grandparentsbecause they're functioning.
They're they're assessing themselvesaccording to what the world says they
should be doing their role.
(21:52):
Really largely not aware of whatthe Bible says.
And when they hear what the Bible says,they're kind of like, dope slap.
Yeah. Wow. That's pretty obvious.How have I missed that?
I mean, I've the more I can't even counthow many times I've.
I've essentially been told that, but what,
you know, what I hope is that,
Christian grandparentsmove from from Christian grandparenting
(22:14):
to intentional Christiangrandparenting and understand
that God has a purpose,a place, a role from them.
It's very clear in Scripture.
But the world has really subtle
and powerful messagesabout, about their role.
And what happens is thatif a Christian grandparent
absorbs those messagesand then actually lives and operates
(22:37):
according to it, yeah, most of themstruggle to accomplish the things
they really want in their heart, which is,you know, strong family relationships.
An influence spiritually in their kidsgrandkids lives
that actually preventsthose things from happening.
And I'll just mention a coupleof the messages that the culture provides.
(22:58):
You'll notice them when you hear them,and you'll be
and then you'll startseeing them everywhere.
And you might evenhave your parents, of your children,
their grandchildren saysome of these things and you'll be like,
oh, man, I didn't never even, like,thought of that before.
Here we go.
So yeah.
So I summarize itas independence and indulgence.
And so essentially the worldtells families, grandparents
(23:22):
that they are to live their lifeseparate from their family
and that they're largely seen as extra
non-essential members of the home.
And, and so they,they're really put at the periphery.
And so while they can havean important place and, have some value,
it really makes them non-essentialsand it makes it difficult to establish
(23:47):
a really strong relationship and maintainthat when you're
when you're kind of out of the main,you're not essential.
Yeah. And most,
most adult children and grandparentswill have heard them.
These kind of messages, they'll say thingsor it will be implied a lot of times,
kind of the the message is don't overstep,don't interfere, don't be a burden.
(24:10):
There's this line here,
and there is a, you know, there's a leaveand cleave truth in scripture,
that parents are given the stewardshipof their children, not grandparents.
And so there's, there is that truth there.
But in doing that, we've kind of boughtinto this whole, complete independence.
And we want more interdependence,not independence.
(24:31):
And that's a very different kind,a different kind of thing.
And, the second one that I mentionedwas indulgence.
And so the world tells grandparentsthat their job
is primarily to spoil grandchildren,
to have fun, to fill them up with sugarfrom up, sugar them up,
and then send them home to wherethe real work of discipleship can occur.
(24:55):
And I remember I was,speaking to a grandfather about this,
and he got this really big smileon his face,
and he said, canI show you a picture, Josh?
And he pulled out his phoneand and he said to me,
he was pulling up his pictures.
Well, you see, they said to me goes,you know, Josh, my grandkids
(25:15):
love to eat vegetablesand I love to feed them vegetables.
And then he showed methe picture that he had and it was the,
the, the crisper drawer in his fridgewas he it was pulled out
and it was filled to the top ofwith like king sized candy bars
that he literally kept in his fridgefor his grandkids.
(25:38):
And, you know,some of that's fine, obviously.
It's fine if
they have some sugar and havewe want to have fun with.
Yeah,our family and grandparents and grandkids.
But what where becomes problematicif it's if
if that's the totality,that's the end goal.
That's the,that's the that's the most that they have.
(26:00):
You have to offer those just becomethe Deuteronomy six kinds of opportunities
to talk about, to teach, to impartGod's truth to a grandchild.
And, and so, you know,
most, most Christian
grandparents are smart enough to know,I think, you know, it's not all about fun,
but I would say mostChristian grandparents do some version of,
(26:23):
play when they're together and praywhen they're apart.
I you called thethe pray and play philosophy.
And, you know, they're trying to be good,good role models.
And, you know,they want to have that presence,
but they're just is there'sa different level of intentionality.
So I did a pretty big research project,
as part of myPhD dissertation to find out,
(26:46):
what percentage of Christian
grandparents understood their roleand what they understood that role to be.
And only one out of four Christiangrandparents under had a biblical vision
for Grandparenting.
The rest were closer to whatI just described in some, some capacity.
I can see that. Yeah,I can totally see that.
Well, just drilling down a little deeper.
(27:07):
What are some specific, Bible passagesabout the role of grandparents?
What does the Bible sayabout Grandparenting give us, like,
give us a bird's, like, overview.
Yeah. Well, if you want to,
if you look at what the Bible saysabout Grandparenting,
you're not going to see those wordsshow up in the Bible very often.
Depending on the translation,it will literally be just a couple times.
(27:30):
Grandparent grandparenting.
But the Bible uses a lot of different term
terms for grandparentingjust like it does for parents.
A lot of different terms, some of those.
So you could write these downand if you want to do a fun
little devotional study on your own,
these are, theseare you grab a concordance,
(27:51):
you can look it upand they'll send you all over the Bible.
But it'd be phraseslike father's father, fathers,
children's children, sons, son,those are just a couple.
There's, you know, there's multiple waysin which the Bible speaks.
And so then you start lookingat those kinds of passages
(28:11):
and you realize, wow,the Bible actually does have a lot to say.
And it gets really prescriptive,
even in the kinds of thingsgrandparents are to do.
So if you've listened herefor this podcast,
you know,a couple of my favorite passages,
our favorite passages, Deuteronomyfour nine is
(28:32):
maybe the most concise passageon Grandparenting.
It says, it talks about actually beginswith watch yourself closely.
Another like,
you know, great Grandparenting
good Grandparenting beginswith, our own heart, our own life.
But then it continues on and says,teach these things
(28:53):
to your childrenand your children's children.
And so that and it's pretty important, youknow, we're not done that parenting yet.
And you can you can even just from that.
That passage is really shortwhen you can see the
very prescriptive role
in which God gives a grandparent,there's a teaching role there.
(29:13):
And of course, Deuteronomyfive talks about God's law.
I teach God's law on that.
Of course, to teach God's law, you'regoing to present this level of perfection.
It's going to become very gospel centricbecause none of us meet God's standard.
And itand it drives grandchildren to Christ.
(29:33):
That's the point of the law.
He's the fulfillment of it.
Doesn't abolish it,
but fulfillment of it teaches us to obeyall that God has commanded.
I mean, you get just in that onelittle verse right there, you literally
get the whole gospel and the
the focus of Christianity, right?
(29:53):
Central to Grand parenting.
I love Psalm 78 and Psalm 78,
gives a number of methods.
Tell your the story of what God
has done, your testimony and teach againGod's law.
It says in verse seven so that,the children, grandchildren, children,
(30:15):
grandchildren will place their hope in Godand not, walk away from his commands.
And there's actually four generationsthat are talked
about in those couple verses.
And so you think about it'snot even the Bible doesn't just talk about
grandparenting those four generations,it gets even broader and longer than that.
(30:36):
It's it's our great grandchildren now.
And so the Bible literally gives
like a hundred year familydiscipleship vision for us as parents.
Like, you think it's, you know, a hundredyears from now, we'll be long gone.
Yeah.
Your grandkids will still be
alive, though more than likely from,you know, from 100 years from now.
(31:00):
Our daughter Emily's ten.
You know, her?
Her 100 years from now should be 110.
Yeah, but her kids and grandkids.
Yeah, her kids will probably.
They'll be pretty old,but they still be alive.
Grandkids certainly would be.
That's a pretty significant impacton. Yeah.
On this world.
(31:22):
And so, you getI mean, there's a lot of passages
like that all over the Bible,old and new and, and they're very
I, they, they give a lot of purpose,a lot of meaning.
I was preaching at a church,
and, just gave a passing comment,62nd comment
about, the role of grandparentsin a sermon on the family.
(31:46):
And I had a set of,
a couple came up afterwards
and they had tears in their eyes and,they looked to be a kid about mid 60s.
They said, you know,we have about 20 grandchildren, 20
we kind of been flounderingtrying to figure out
what, you know, what's our purpose in lifeand what's our,
you know,what place do we have with our family.
And and they said just hearingthat little bit that you said today
(32:10):
has given us a purpose that we didn't knowwe had and directly from the Lord.
That's so cool.
I just think what a blessingto have that kind of presence are.
Your mom died when our kids were our two.
Oldest were like three.
Yeah. Preschool age. My mom died when,
when Jay was like one, he just turned one.
Most of our kidsdidn't know grandmas. Yeah.
(32:33):
My dad's had a very,
impactful presence in your dad.
You know,they we sit together at church on Sunday.
It's great.
You're in the same row, and,my dad ends up doing Bible memorization.
He's super hands on with face timeswith the kids.
Yeah, they read through apologetics bookstogether.
(32:55):
They they talk about all kinds of topics.
And he's shared his testimony.
He brings the boys to,grand dads and lads, weekend stuff.
He comes in deer hunts with usand you know them.
And Pam does pal retreat with the girls?
Has been a huge gift.
So much so my mom died. Yeah, yeah.
(33:16):
And having her just godly presence,all of her left. So.
Yeah, cooking and baking and,
you know,I'm just grateful for that kind of,
impact and
on our kids lives and,it hasn't always been easy.
We've had our challenge with our family'sbeen death, and, and, you know,
and that took a whileto kind of get back on our feet, but,
(33:39):
but it's been really good. And. Yeah.
So I don't encourage you to kind of like,think, think,
how can grandparentshave a role in your kids lives?
And if you don't have Christiangrandparents,
or death has taken them out of your life?
You know, there's we've had somebody atour church was Miss Nancy
who kind of filled the, grandparent rolefor some of our kids.
(34:02):
Adopted grandma and adopted grandmathat they would call her all the time.
And sometimes in our house a lot.
Yeah, she's passed away now as well.
And that was like a grandmother died.
She had such a big presence.
So maybe you could search some forsomeone like that in the at your church.
And I think that God's family,kind of helps,
(34:22):
helps fill the holes in our, our,our biological family.
That's part of God's. That's his design.
Just what would you say to a family,a young family,
or even not even a young family,but that is having difficulty
with grandparents that you're notthat they're not aligned either,
you know, with our beliefsor spiritually or,
(34:44):
there's just like, difficultyin that grandparent relationship.
What would you say to the mom and dad?
I'd say,
separate, difficult and destructive. So,
there most of us are going to havesome difficulty in immediate
or extended family relationships.
And difficulty requiresgrace, grace and patience.
(35:08):
And it requires the one another's,all those one another
commandments in Scripture,bearing with one another, forgiving one
another, serving one another,all those wonderful one another's
and and in the,
in that instance,if it's difficult, then it is
we're try to work throughwith biblical principles
(35:30):
that challenge have the conversationeven if it's a hard one.
Be gracious.
Be caring.
But, you know, work for,
work for restoration.
If it's destructive,I put that in a different category.
And, you know,maybe there's emotional abuse there,
or maybe there is just it's a it's, it'snot a godly influence in some way.
(35:53):
And so there in those instances,
there needs to be a limiting,there needs sometimes to be space.
There needs to be boundaries.
I don't ever really recommend
cutting off or, you know, Christiansto, you know, we don't cancel people.
We want to keep a relationship open.
(36:13):
And, God, sometimes it's really difficult
to think God ever redeem somethingor change something.
And he, you know, he he can and he does.
You know,we hear those testimonies all the time.
But even if it's, you know, for a while,it could be more of a surface
see, relationship.
(36:33):
It could be a limited releaseor a holiday based relationship.
And that's okay.
If it's in that kindof destructive category, then I would say,
you know,
put those kinds of protections in placewhile still
having some kind of interactionand you'll just have to feel that out.
What is, you know,what's, what's possible. And,
(36:57):
those that seems to be,we'll just leave it at that for this one.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's great.
Okay, well, before we wrap up today,
we wanted to end with a segment
that's called Favorite Things.
Our Family's Favorite Things.
It's fun.
All the things that kind of become ourfamily's favorite throughout the season.
(37:21):
So it's kind of a treatto share those with you.
Yeah. What are youwhat do we got today for favorite things?
Janae I talked a lot.
So you share the favorite thing okayI'll share.
Well it's fall. It's fall in Minnesota.
Fall everywhere.
Not just in Minnesota, but fall means
peak excitement in our home for sure.
But ball season.
(37:42):
So if you ask the boys what their favoritething is, I did ask them today.
What's your favorite thing right now?
They were like football season.
So they're all in.
It's like excitement about the Vikings.
Monday Night
Football, Thursday night Football,
(38:05):
fantasy football.
It's a lot of football excitement.
So that's very fun.
The guys love to like, cozy up
and watch football and throw the footballand do all the football things.
And then the girls and Iduring football season, we like football.
We're not as into it.
So this year the girls and I are doing,
(38:28):
we're trying to aim for some more,like homemade,
handmade,heartfelt Christmas gifts this year.
So this year when and we've donedifferent things every year.
What this year, when the guys are watchingfootball, the girls and I
are doing like, some like stitching
(38:48):
and like embroidery things as gifts.
Now, I'm not sure if anybody in our familylike extended
family who would receive gifts from usor our close friends are listening.
So I'm not going tosay what we're making. Duh.
But let me say
what is being madeis like a ten out of ten.
(39:10):
These are going to be super good.
But one of the things we're doing,I brought it
so I could showif anybody else feels like being crafty
during football season,this is your thing.
Okay,so I make these things that are called,
cross stitch families.
So they're basically like, likeyou sew a picture of somebody's family.
So I'm going to show youthe book that I have.
(39:31):
If you're watching a video, it's calledDo It Yourself Stitch People.
And so it gives you like a little template
for making like a stitched versionof people's families.
And you can like create their facein their outfits.
And then we put them all together and wemake like versions of people's families.
And then we added to it.
(39:53):
This year that the second book,which is Stitch People Farm Animals,
so you can customize stitching,everybody's farm animals.
I'm not sure if you have somebodywith farm animals in your life.
But the girls and Iare super amped up with our,
homemade holiday stitching projects,
(40:16):
so there's nothing like a homemadeChristmas gift.
And even though it's like,you know, fall homemade Christmas gifts
don't make themselves, Black Friday,they come from extra weeks of preparation.
So that's all.
And stitching which which of our animalsdid you put in the in which we'll add.
(40:39):
There's so many.
Did you Dolly Foxy.
So, those are two of our.
I don't think we've told you guys
that those are two of our commonnames, Dolly and Fox.
So, like, between us and we, you know.
And when I say us,I mean everybody listening to.
I would love to make little like,Christmas ornaments.
Like, you know,you can make a Christmas ornament
(41:01):
in, like,
a little frame, you know, like PotteryBarn sells those little frame ornaments
only because you buy them.
Otherwise I would have this.
I would lose my card if Iif I like was like, oh yeah, I know, don't
I can't resist like a little ribbon frameornament from Pottery Barn every year.
Anyways, I thought it would be so adorableto make like
(41:23):
a little stitchedversion of, like, the kid's favorite,
animal and then, like, frame that.
Or, you know, that's fun.
That would be good.
That fun.
Like Foxy the cow in a little ornament,don't you think?
She's a good looking cow?It's like she's a beautiful.
She could win like a blue ribbonat the state fair.
(41:43):
That's how pretty she is.
And you look good in a little.
Yeah, in a little frame.
I'm a sucker for those, like, Christmasornament frames and our Christmas tree
has a thousand ornaments, sowe'll have to figure that out this year.
But that's okay.
That just means that out of love,you know she did that for our family.
And we have the our family up.
And I like it every time I walk by.
(42:04):
Yeah I do like anyone. Yeah.
But I've made them for a lot of people'sfamilies, our families.
But they're very fun, handmade Christmas.
We're thinking about it right now.
All right.
Oh that doesn't that's it for today.
I hope you guys have a great weekand we'll see you guys next week.
Take care. Bye.
(44:50):
Thank you for listening to the GospelSheep Family podcast.
Please share this episodeand give us a five star rating
wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm Josh and I'm Jen.
Welcome to the GospelShaped Family podcast.
Each episode brings biblical wisdomand practical conversations
on parenting, marriage, and family,and we discuss
how to disciple the next generationwith a biblical worldview.
Whether you're raising children,shepherding a church, or longing
(00:20):
to build a legacy of faith in your home,this podcast is for you.
Join us as we explore how to shape hearts,homes, and churches around the gospel,
one conversation at a time.
Hey everyone!
Welcome back to the GospelSheep Family Podcast episode seven.
All right.This is going to be a great one today.
(00:40):
Yeah.
Today we're talking about partneringwith grand parents,
which is such a fun topic.
Grandparents are the best.
I think.
But before we jump into content,just tell me about your grandparents.
So I had four.
I love Josh's grandparents.
They were so wonderful.
(01:02):
Okay. You share?
Yes. So,
my grandparents were.
Both of them were,married beyond 50 years?
Yeah.
And I think that was one of the mostamazing legacies that they left.
Was just a faithful marriage that built,
kind of a healthy family culture.
(01:23):
Of course, they valued family.
They both.
They all lived in the same farm,
in the same city in Rochester,just a few miles from each other.
So we would when we would go to seegrandparents, you'd see everybody
all year, all of them,and jump from one to the other.
So my grandparents, at one set
I would think was Christians and,
(01:45):
you know, they, they,I would say taught good values.
We would go stay with them,
one week
per summer andthey'd kind of do some fun stuff with us.
And I have a lot of great memorieswith that.
Another one.
I think they were Catholic, andI don't know if they became Christians.
I don't I don't think they did.
(02:06):
But you and I, when we gotmarried, would spend quite a bit of time
with them playing cards and,being with them, which I, which I value.
But during my growing up years, I didn't
have they didn't my grandparentsdidn't have a huge presence in my life.
We lived.
I grew up in Texas and didn'tmove to Minnesota until my teen years.
(02:26):
And so all my family's in Minnesota.
And so this didn't have a huge presence.
And my one set was, they're snowbirds.
So they'd go to Arizona in usuallyin January right after Christmas and stay
till about May, usually early May when,you know, it's nice here in Minnesota.
(02:46):
And, you know, when I was a kid,I didn't think anything of that.
Now that I'm adult and I've done alot in the grandparent world,
you know, the, the
reality of that situation was theythey traded,
a pretty significant influencein our lives and families lives
for comfortand warm weather and friends. And,
(03:10):
and it's not that you can't do bothand kind of live
at a distance and have a, relationship,but am I, in my experience, that
we largely didn't see or hear from?
They just didn't have a presencein our life during, during those times.
So, but I love them dearly, of course.
And, grateful for the grandparentsGod gave and.
(03:32):
Yeah.
How about you?
Oh, my goodness, I loved my grandparents.
My grandparents have all passed.
I had again,just like you for grandparents.
Intact family.
Intact family.
Yeah.
So we were always super close with my,well, with both sets of grandparents,
but I was personally closerwith my dad's parents.
(03:53):
They went through a season where they,like, lived with us for a while.
They, which was so wonderful.
And so it was years rice years.
And for a while I you take, you see, like,
13 years.
It was great.
And even when I was little,
I would get off the bus and my,I would go home to my grandparents house.
(04:15):
And so my grandma would have, like,fresh cookies every day.
Just,I mean, hundreds and hundreds of hours
spent with my grandparentson my dad's side.
And so our relationships were alwaysreally tight, super influential.
On my mom's side, that my grandparents,
I mean, they had eight childrenand a big family.
(04:37):
My grandma was like,the matriarch of the family and,
you know, just very much loved. And.
Yeah, so just talking about grandparentsand having the opportunity to shape, like,
what does it look liketo be have Christian grandparents
or to partner with grandparents,no matter how old your kids are,
whether they're little or even,they're a little bit older.
(04:58):
And just like deepeningthose relationships is such a fun topic.
I just have nothing but the warmest,
feelings for grandparents, I love that.
So Josh,
I can't wait to be a grandma someday.
I, I'm not sure how many moms
in this season of parenting or dads
(05:21):
think about wanting to be a grandparentsomeday, but I am.
I mean, we're a ways off, but I'm alreadylike, really excited for that day.
So when we get to be grandparents,what do you want your grandpa name to be?
What do you think about the names
Lolly and Pop?
(05:43):
I almost just said no.
What what what what whatwhat did you like about that?
I just for me, it's cool for youbecause you'd be pop.
But that makes me lolly.
LOL. Okay, so.
All right.
I mean, I know some peoplethat actually have those names.
(06:05):
Sure.
Yeah.
Okay,so when I, when my mind goes to people
named Lolly and Pop,I would just want to hug them.
I don't know them,but they seem like super huggable.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Are they?
Yeah.
Just super sweet people. Yeah.They're great.
Well, what what do you wantyour grandma named?
Since you obviously have somethingin mind.
I, I it is a no brainer.
(06:26):
Grammy having me for you with a why?
Well, okay,so my mom was Grammy with a Y, and then
Grammy Pammy, who is our kids?
Grandma Josh is dad's wife.
Pam. My mom died.
My dad. His mom died,and he got remarried.
But the like our kids, I mean,Pam has been around for a long time now.
(06:50):
I mean, since Kate was.
She came to the hospitaland Kate was born in 15 years.
And sothat's like, who the kids know is Grammy.
They call her Grammy family,but she's Grammy iy, and.
But I going to be Grammy with the Y.
Grammy with the one with the y'all, right?
Yeah, I have no idea.
I don't knowif grandkids are going to name
(07:11):
what happens if they name yousomething different than Grammy.
What if they.
No, no, no.
Then I'll be like, oh,excuse me, it's Grammy.
Okay. All right.
No no no no no.
They'll get itbecause I'll, I'll be like this.
Like for all the things, I'll be likeall Grammys.
Can I get that for you?
I'll talk. I'll refer to myselfin the third person.
I would love to know what people eitherhave as their
(07:35):
grandparent namethat are listening, or want to be called.
You should leave that in the commentsand leave a comment.
What is your grandparent?
I need some ideas, honestly.
So give me some ideas on what should the,what should our
what should my grandparent name be?What should his grand?
I don't know if I have have that set yet,but you know the average age.
How old how old are you?
(07:56):
I said, yes, I am 47, 47.
Okay.
Do you know the average age that somebodybecomes a grandparent for the first time?
Their firstfirst grandchild born is 47 to 53 start.
So you are like, I'm there.
We if you're watching on video yearsthe stereotype is obviously like gray hair
(08:18):
with you know, with the cane and on the
but that's,that's like a great grandparent.
Yeah.
We're literallywhat you're looking at is like,
this is what is grandparent agefor the first time.
Grandparent. Yeah.
Or younger we'd be young grandparents.
But that could happen.
And in six years it could happen.
Yeah, we could hit that.
Bring it on, bring it on.
(08:39):
That sounds fun.
I saved, like, the baby cribfrom our kids.
You're right.
You saved it for future grandkids.
You been hanging on to that for a while.
Because when we had grandkids
or when we had kids,my mom set up a nursery at her house.
Like, that was one legit full nursery.
And so I knew I want a full nurserywhen we have grandkids with the same crib.
(09:05):
I mean, that sounds great.
Well all right. Okay.
Well, so Josh, you've written some booksabout Grandparenting.
You're seen largely as a grandparentingexpert in Christian grandparenting.
So what might listeners who are listeningtoday who are not grandparents,
if you're a parent but not a grandparent,what can you been?
(09:28):
Well,
how will they benefit from listeningto our podcast about Grandparenting today?
So one of the big takeaways is
that grandparents are the number two,
the potential numbertwo influence in your child's life.
And if you're a grandparent,you are the number two influence.
And that's by God's design.
(09:50):
You God created, two parentsand then multiple
grandparents as the,
as partners with the same goal
but different rolesin the life of a child.
And, you know, as parents,we have five, of course.
Tough day to raise kids,not easy to help them
(10:12):
walk all their days with Jesus Christ.
I'll take all the help I can get.
And grandparents are God'sdesign mechanism.
To to provide that they also whenthe family breaks down and has problems,
God's
literally built in a safety netand a support system
and that is, you know, that's,that's grandparents.
(10:34):
I would say also, one of the thingsthat people can take away
from here is you will be a grandparentif you have kids,
it's like the percentage chancethat you'll be a grandparent is like,
it's like 95 or 98%or I mean, it's like a virtual lock.
Yeah.
And so at some point you will be in,you know, you
(10:54):
if you got really little kids,it feels like an eternity away.
But at some pointyou will be in those shoes
and then you want clarity around what,what does this look like from,
you know, from Scriptureas far as the role. Yeah.
And the last one I'll mention is, your
your role right now as a steward.
God's giving you stewardshipof your children as a parent.
(11:18):
And that's a good thing.
You're the gatekeeper to your childrenfrom your grand, from their grandparents.
And if God has given grandparentsa role with grandchildren, they're.
I think it's appropriate,
to open that gateand allow godly grandparents to notice.
(11:41):
I say godly, godlygrandparents to have a presence
and a roleand an impact in the grandchild's life.
Obviouslythere needs to be boundaries at times.
If the if the, if, if godly isn't thereand it's damaging and problematic and,
you know, we could talk all aboutall kinds of family dynamics that,
(12:02):
generally, you know, I just statinggeneralities doesn't apply to but
but in general, I believe ithonors the Lord to open the gate.
And I hear from a lot of grandparents
that grandchildren have been weaponizedagainst them and just,
the heartache and the sadness
(12:25):
that is communicated that I, you know,I don't have a relationship with them.
We have we have,
one of the staff
members, one of my colleaguesat Renew Nation,
during our prayer time,most months talks about,
you know, in the last few months,she's talked about how she hasn't seen her
(12:46):
granddaughter in, you know, six monthsand just you can just hear the pain.
And, that is almost an epidemic
in our world today, in our culture.
And so I will just say,just recognize that,
that that, you know,God's given that role to grandparents.
So we want,
(13:06):
we want to be wise with opening the gate,but we also want to be, doing
so in a way that honorsthe Lord and invites
godly grandparents into have a have a presence and have a role.
Yeah. That's great.
So we're obviously not grandparents yet.
But you wrote,
a number of resourceson Grandparenting seven books.
(13:26):
So share Josh with our listenershow you got there.
And just a little bit of your storyon the Grandparenting
just going I was at Southern BaptistTheological Seminary,
going through PhD in Family Ministry,and I read something in one of my
(13:46):
on the books, a million bookshave you read in a PhD world?
Grandparenting.
And I thought, I never really I'veeverything I was thinking about for family
ministry was all helping parentsdisciple their kids.
I've never, like,never even consider mine.
Yeah, yeah. I'll meet you. Yeah, yeah.
Immediate familynever even crossed my mind.
Like grandparents.
(14:08):
And I like the thought flashed
across my mind like, well,I'm sure there's just a mountain of stuff
out there for Christian grandparents,just like there is for Christian parents.
And so I, I asked one of my professors,do you know what are like, the best
resources for Christian grandparentsto help them do what God's called them to?
(14:29):
And, my professor said to me,I really don't actually even know.
You should, like,do a little bit of research and
and let me know, like, report back.
And so I, you know, I just looked around,I was shocked at how little there was.
So at the time, there was one ministry
that existed in the entire worldspecifically for Christian grandparents.
(14:51):
It's calledthe Christian Grandparent Network,
which is now under our ministryat Renew Nation.
That we justthey came under our, organization here
not too long ago,which is really, God's providence.
That's crazy.And Kevin Harper started that.
Sheriff Shuman was CEO recently,and just wonderful ministry.
(15:14):
And Sherry's part
of our team nowand think really highly of Kevin.
There were seven books that I could findthat was that was literally it
for Christian grandparents.
And they were almost all self-publishedand mostly on prayer.
So they're some of them are really hardto find because,
at the time, self-published books,weren't as easily
(15:35):
found as they are today on Amazonand other sites. And,
and I couldn't find a single church
in the United Statesthat was doing anything
to support, equip, even talkingabout Grandparenting in their church.
Not a not a small group,not a sermon, not literally nothing.
(15:59):
And, you know, you think about as parents,what if the church
you were going to literally ignoredparenting completely?
Never, never really didanything, said anything, equipped
you, helpedyou, supported you in that role.
It's such a huge presence in our life
as parents, and as grandparents people.
(16:22):
You know, most people are a grandparentfor literally about 50% of their life.
It is almost half of their is that,
I suppose, with that statisticit takes up about half of their life.
And and so I, I looked at census numbers,
US census numbers and kind of extrapolatedsome things from that.
And my, my best guessis that there's approximately 30 million
(16:46):
Christian grandparentsin the United States alone.
And so you think about I sawI saw the need.
I looked at the numbers and thought, wow,
this is a huge groupthat really needs to capture
a biblical vision and be resourced
in, in how to impact their family.
(17:08):
The average
grandparent has between 5and 6 grandchildren.
So you could do the math in your head.
Let's say all 30 of the million,they're not all married.
But, you know, let's say two thirds ofthose are couples, but times 5 to 6.
I mean, you're talking 100,a couple hundred million
children in the United States that,
(17:30):
that grandparents could have aan increased
intentional impact in their life,that is that's significant.
And so an impact that hadn't been ithadn't been charted.
The path had not been. No.
And they, you know,in the publishing world, they say
the kiss of deathis to go into a publisher and say,
(17:53):
nobody has ever written on this. Yeah.
They call it blue ocean, red ocean. And,
and I literally was I went in
to the publisher, PublicChristian Publishers, you know, Moody and,
Bethany House,who I ended up publishing with and I could
list, like, all the major publisherswere flying me in.
And it was pretty easy to make a case.
(18:15):
And, you know, I said to them,this hasn't been written on.
And they actually were like,you're right, it isn't.
Oh my goodness,I can't believe there's this.
Like this untouched.
It's pretty rare to findthose kinds of things in the world today.
It was a gaping hole. Yeah.
And so that was boy, thatso I started that process in about 2009.
(18:37):
So now it's been,you know, 15, 16 years. And,
I was I had been working on thisfor a number of years,
just quietly in my study,
day, you know, week after week,knowing this is coming
and it's going to havea really big impact, more than likely.
But sitting on it for a few years,and then once, once,
(19:00):
you know, it was publishedwith Bethany House and a few others,
it was just fun to seehow God has used that to really create
a Christian Grandparenting movement.
And that's still is gaining momentum. But,
yeah.
So God, for some reason decided,
open my eyes, a non grandparent to the
(19:21):
this and it's been been a fun ride.
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(19:43):
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This helps us grow and reach more familieswith a biblical worldview.
Now back to the show.
Well, before we get intowhat the Bible says about Grandparenting,
I'd love for you just to address,
what societyhas to say about Grandparenting,
(20:06):
and how that
sort of affectingintergenerational relationships today.
And justwhat are some of the things you're seeing?
So let me ask you a question.
Okay.
When I say family,what do you think of in your mind?
Family. Well, yeah.
Just any anybody listening?
(20:26):
Like most people think of,like, mom and dad, parents and children.
The kids.
Yeah. And, But I'm married to you.
So I think about grandparents. Yes.
You think that way?
Most people think most people do.
Family and immediate.
And that's largelyhow the church has defined family.
Oh, yeah.
Family ministry has been defined that way.
And so.
(20:47):
But that's not how the Bible definesfamily.
The Bible doesn't define familyin immediate terms.
It defines it in, extended family terms,including grandparents and others.
You know, you could
put on some uncles and,you know, in that category as well.
But it our just,
our very definition of familyis just a little too narrow.
(21:10):
And that's dangerous to say today
in our culture,if you take that clip out of context.
No, I don't mean LGBTQ.
I mean, you know,marriage is one man, one woman for life.
But it includes in the discipleshipof children more than just parents.
And so wewe aren't even thinking scripturally
(21:31):
at the most basic,foundational level of what a family is.
And, and most Christian grandparentson top of that,
they think they are good grandparentsbecause they're functioning.
They're they're assessing themselvesaccording to what the world says they
should be doing their role.
(21:52):
Really largely not aware of whatthe Bible says.
And when they hear what the Bible says,they're kind of like, dope slap.
Yeah. Wow. That's pretty obvious.How have I missed that?
I mean, I've the more I can't even counthow many times I've.
I've essentially been told that, but what,
you know, what I hope is that,
Christian grandparentsmove from from Christian grandparenting
(22:14):
to intentional Christiangrandparenting and understand
that God has a purpose,a place, a role from them.
It's very clear in Scripture.
But the world has really subtle
and powerful messagesabout, about their role.
And what happens is thatif a Christian grandparent
absorbs those messagesand then actually lives and operates
(22:37):
according to it, yeah, most of themstruggle to accomplish the things
they really want in their heart, which is,you know, strong family relationships.
An influence spiritually in their kidsgrandkids lives
that actually preventsthose things from happening.
And I'll just mention a coupleof the messages that the culture provides.
(22:58):
You'll notice them when you hear them,and you'll be
and then you'll startseeing them everywhere.
And you might evenhave your parents, of your children,
their grandchildren saysome of these things and you'll be like,
oh, man, I didn't never even, like,thought of that before.
Here we go.
So yeah.
So I summarize itas independence and indulgence.
And so essentially the worldtells families, grandparents
(23:22):
that they are to live their lifeseparate from their family
and that they're largely seen as extra
non-essential members of the home.
And, and so they,they're really put at the periphery.
And so while they can havean important place and, have some value,
it really makes them non-essentialsand it makes it difficult to establish
(23:47):
a really strong relationship and maintainthat when you're
when you're kind of out of the main,you're not essential.
Yeah. And most,
most adult children and grandparentswill have heard them.
These kind of messages, they'll say thingsor it will be implied a lot of times,
kind of the the message is don't overstep,don't interfere, don't be a burden.
(24:10):
There's this line here,
and there is a, you know, there's a leaveand cleave truth in scripture,
that parents are given the stewardshipof their children, not grandparents.
And so there's, there is that truth there.
But in doing that, we've kind of boughtinto this whole, complete independence.
And we want more interdependence,not independence.
(24:31):
And that's a very different kind,a different kind of thing.
And, the second one that I mentionedwas indulgence.
And so the world tells grandparentsthat their job
is primarily to spoil grandchildren,
to have fun, to fill them up with sugarfrom up, sugar them up,
and then send them home to wherethe real work of discipleship can occur.
(24:55):
And I remember I was,speaking to a grandfather about this,
and he got this really big smileon his face,
and he said, canI show you a picture, Josh?
And he pulled out his phoneand and he said to me,
he was pulling up his pictures.
Well, you see, they said to me goes,you know, Josh, my grandkids
(25:15):
love to eat vegetablesand I love to feed them vegetables.
And then he showed methe picture that he had and it was the,
the, the crisper drawer in his fridgewas he it was pulled out
and it was filled to the top ofwith like king sized candy bars
that he literally kept in his fridgefor his grandkids.
(25:38):
And, you know,some of that's fine, obviously.
It's fine if
they have some sugar and havewe want to have fun with.
Yeah,our family and grandparents and grandkids.
But what where becomes problematicif it's if
if that's the totality,that's the end goal.
That's the,that's the that's the most that they have.
(26:00):
You have to offer those just becomethe Deuteronomy six kinds of opportunities
to talk about, to teach, to impartGod's truth to a grandchild.
And, and so, you know,
most, most Christian
grandparents are smart enough to know,I think, you know, it's not all about fun,
but I would say mostChristian grandparents do some version of,
(26:23):
play when they're together and praywhen they're apart.
I you called thethe pray and play philosophy.
And, you know, they're trying to be good,good role models.
And, you know,they want to have that presence,
but they're just is there'sa different level of intentionality.
So I did a pretty big research project,
as part of myPhD dissertation to find out,
(26:46):
what percentage of Christian
grandparents understood their roleand what they understood that role to be.
And only one out of four Christiangrandparents under had a biblical vision
for Grandparenting.
The rest were closer to whatI just described in some, some capacity.
I can see that. Yeah,I can totally see that.
Well, just drilling down a little deeper.
(27:07):
What are some specific, Bible passagesabout the role of grandparents?
What does the Bible sayabout Grandparenting give us, like,
give us a bird's, like, overview.
Yeah. Well, if you want to,
if you look at what the Bible saysabout Grandparenting,
you're not going to see those wordsshow up in the Bible very often.
Depending on the translation,it will literally be just a couple times.
(27:30):
Grandparent grandparenting.
But the Bible uses a lot of different term
terms for grandparentingjust like it does for parents.
A lot of different terms, some of those.
So you could write these downand if you want to do a fun
little devotional study on your own,
these are, theseare you grab a concordance,
(27:51):
you can look it upand they'll send you all over the Bible.
But it'd be phraseslike father's father, fathers,
children's children, sons, son,those are just a couple.
There's, you know, there's multiple waysin which the Bible speaks.
And so then you start lookingat those kinds of passages
(28:11):
and you realize, wow,the Bible actually does have a lot to say.
And it gets really prescriptive,
even in the kinds of thingsgrandparents are to do.
So if you've listened herefor this podcast,
you know,a couple of my favorite passages,
our favorite passages, Deuteronomyfour nine is
(28:32):
maybe the most concise passageon Grandparenting.
It says, it talks about actually beginswith watch yourself closely.
Another like,
you know, great Grandparenting
good Grandparenting beginswith, our own heart, our own life.
But then it continues on and says,teach these things
(28:53):
to your childrenand your children's children.
And so that and it's pretty important, youknow, we're not done that parenting yet.
And you can you can even just from that.
That passage is really shortwhen you can see the
very prescriptive role
in which God gives a grandparent,there's a teaching role there.
(29:13):
And of course, Deuteronomyfive talks about God's law.
I teach God's law on that.
Of course, to teach God's law, you'regoing to present this level of perfection.
It's going to become very gospel centricbecause none of us meet God's standard.
And itand it drives grandchildren to Christ.
(29:33):
That's the point of the law.
He's the fulfillment of it.
Doesn't abolish it,
but fulfillment of it teaches us to obeyall that God has commanded.
I mean, you get just in that onelittle verse right there, you literally
get the whole gospel and the
the focus of Christianity, right?
(29:53):
Central to Grand parenting.
I love Psalm 78 and Psalm 78,
gives a number of methods.
Tell your the story of what God
has done, your testimony and teach againGod's law.
It says in verse seven so that,the children, grandchildren, children,
(30:15):
grandchildren will place their hope in Godand not, walk away from his commands.
And there's actually four generationsthat are talked
about in those couple verses.
And so you think about it'snot even the Bible doesn't just talk about
grandparenting those four generations,it gets even broader and longer than that.
(30:36):
It's it's our great grandchildren now.
And so the Bible literally gives
like a hundred year familydiscipleship vision for us as parents.
Like, you think it's, you know, a hundredyears from now, we'll be long gone.
Yeah.
Your grandkids will still be
alive, though more than likely from,you know, from 100 years from now.
(31:00):
Our daughter Emily's ten.
You know, her?
Her 100 years from now should be 110.
Yeah, but her kids and grandkids.
Yeah, her kids will probably.
They'll be pretty old,but they still be alive.
Grandkids certainly would be.
That's a pretty significant impacton. Yeah.
On this world.
(31:22):
And so, you getI mean, there's a lot of passages
like that all over the Bible,old and new and, and they're very
I, they, they give a lot of purpose,a lot of meaning.
I was preaching at a church,
and, just gave a passing comment,62nd comment
about, the role of grandparentsin a sermon on the family.
(31:46):
And I had a set of,
a couple came up afterwards
and they had tears in their eyes and,they looked to be a kid about mid 60s.
They said, you know,we have about 20 grandchildren, 20
we kind of been flounderingtrying to figure out
what, you know, what's our purpose in lifeand what's our,
you know,what place do we have with our family.
And and they said just hearingthat little bit that you said today
(32:10):
has given us a purpose that we didn't knowwe had and directly from the Lord.
That's so cool.
I just think what a blessingto have that kind of presence are.
Your mom died when our kids were our two.
Oldest were like three.
Yeah. Preschool age. My mom died when,
when Jay was like one, he just turned one.
Most of our kidsdidn't know grandmas. Yeah.
(32:33):
My dad's had a very,
impactful presence in your dad.
You know,they we sit together at church on Sunday.
It's great.
You're in the same row, and,my dad ends up doing Bible memorization.
He's super hands on with face timeswith the kids.
Yeah, they read through apologetics bookstogether.
(32:55):
They they talk about all kinds of topics.
And he's shared his testimony.
He brings the boys to,grand dads and lads, weekend stuff.
He comes in deer hunts with usand you know them.
And Pam does pal retreat with the girls?
Has been a huge gift.
So much so my mom died. Yeah, yeah.
(33:16):
And having her just godly presence,all of her left. So.
Yeah, cooking and baking and,
you know,I'm just grateful for that kind of,
impact and
on our kids lives and,it hasn't always been easy.
We've had our challenge with our family'sbeen death, and, and, you know,
and that took a whileto kind of get back on our feet, but,
(33:39):
but it's been really good. And. Yeah.
So I don't encourage you to kind of like,think, think,
how can grandparentshave a role in your kids lives?
And if you don't have Christiangrandparents,
or death has taken them out of your life?
You know, there's we've had somebody atour church was Miss Nancy
who kind of filled the, grandparent rolefor some of our kids.
(34:02):
Adopted grandma and adopted grandmathat they would call her all the time.
And sometimes in our house a lot.
Yeah, she's passed away now as well.
And that was like a grandmother died.
She had such a big presence.
So maybe you could search some forsomeone like that in the at your church.
And I think that God's family,kind of helps,
(34:22):
helps fill the holes in our, our,our biological family.
That's part of God's. That's his design.
Just what would you say to a family,a young family,
or even not even a young family,but that is having difficulty
with grandparents that you're notthat they're not aligned either,
you know, with our beliefsor spiritually or,
(34:44):
there's just like, difficultyin that grandparent relationship.
What would you say to the mom and dad?
I'd say,
separate, difficult and destructive. So,
there most of us are going to havesome difficulty in immediate
or extended family relationships.
And difficulty requiresgrace, grace and patience.
(35:08):
And it requires the one another's,all those one another
commandments in Scripture,bearing with one another, forgiving one
another, serving one another,all those wonderful one another's
and and in the,
in that instance,if it's difficult, then it is
we're try to work throughwith biblical principles
(35:30):
that challenge have the conversationeven if it's a hard one.
Be gracious.
Be caring.
But, you know, work for,
work for restoration.
If it's destructive,I put that in a different category.
And, you know,maybe there's emotional abuse there,
or maybe there is just it's a it's, it'snot a godly influence in some way.
(35:53):
And so there in those instances,
there needs to be a limiting,there needs sometimes to be space.
There needs to be boundaries.
I don't ever really recommend
cutting off or, you know, Christiansto, you know, we don't cancel people.
We want to keep a relationship open.
(36:13):
And, God, sometimes it's really difficult
to think God ever redeem somethingor change something.
And he, you know, he he can and he does.
You know,we hear those testimonies all the time.
But even if it's, you know, for a while,it could be more of a surface
see, relationship.
(36:33):
It could be a limited releaseor a holiday based relationship.
And that's okay.
If it's in that kindof destructive category, then I would say,
you know,
put those kinds of protections in placewhile still
having some kind of interactionand you'll just have to feel that out.
What is, you know,what's, what's possible. And,
(36:57):
those that seems to be,we'll just leave it at that for this one.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's great.
Okay, well, before we wrap up today,
we wanted to end with a segment
that's called Favorite Things.
Our Family's Favorite Things.
It's fun.
All the things that kind of become ourfamily's favorite throughout the season.
(37:21):
So it's kind of a treatto share those with you.
Yeah. What are youwhat do we got today for favorite things?
Janae I talked a lot.
So you share the favorite thing okayI'll share.
Well it's fall. It's fall in Minnesota.
Fall everywhere.
Not just in Minnesota, but fall means
peak excitement in our home for sure.
But ball season.
(37:42):
So if you ask the boys what their favoritething is, I did ask them today.
What's your favorite thing right now?
They were like football season.
So they're all in.
It's like excitement about the Vikings.
Monday Night
Football, Thursday night Football,
(38:05):
fantasy football.
It's a lot of football excitement.
So that's very fun.
The guys love to like, cozy up
and watch football and throw the footballand do all the football things.
And then the girls and Iduring football season, we like football.
We're not as into it.
So this year the girls and I are doing,
(38:28):
we're trying to aim for some more,like homemade,
handmade,heartfelt Christmas gifts this year.
So this year when and we've donedifferent things every year.
What this year, when the guys are watchingfootball, the girls and I
are doing like, some like stitching
(38:48):
and like embroidery things as gifts.
Now, I'm not sure if anybody in our familylike extended
family who would receive gifts from usor our close friends are listening.
So I'm not going tosay what we're making. Duh.
But let me say
what is being madeis like a ten out of ten.
(39:10):
These are going to be super good.
But one of the things we're doing,I brought it
so I could showif anybody else feels like being crafty
during football season,this is your thing.
Okay,so I make these things that are called,
cross stitch families.
So they're basically like, likeyou sew a picture of somebody's family.
So I'm going to show youthe book that I have.
(39:31):
If you're watching a video, it's calledDo It Yourself Stitch People.
And so it gives you like a little template
for making like a stitched versionof people's families.
And you can like create their facein their outfits.
And then we put them all together and wemake like versions of people's families.
And then we added to it.
(39:53):
This year that the second book,which is Stitch People Farm Animals,
so you can customize stitching,everybody's farm animals.
I'm not sure if you have somebodywith farm animals in your life.
But the girls and Iare super amped up with our,
homemade holiday stitching projects,
(40:16):
so there's nothing like a homemadeChristmas gift.
And even though it's like,you know, fall homemade Christmas gifts
don't make themselves, Black Friday,they come from extra weeks of preparation.
So that's all.
And stitching which which of our animalsdid you put in the in which we'll add.
(40:39):
There's so many.
Did you Dolly Foxy.
So, those are two of our.
I don't think we've told you guys
that those are two of our commonnames, Dolly and Fox.
So, like, between us and we, you know.
And when I say us,I mean everybody listening to.
I would love to make little like,Christmas ornaments.
Like, you know,you can make a Christmas ornament
(41:01):
in, like,
a little frame, you know, like PotteryBarn sells those little frame ornaments
only because you buy them.
Otherwise I would have this.
I would lose my card if Iif I like was like, oh yeah, I know, don't
I can't resist like a little ribbon frameornament from Pottery Barn every year.
Anyways, I thought it would be so adorableto make like
(41:23):
a little stitchedversion of, like, the kid's favorite,
animal and then, like, frame that.
Or, you know, that's fun.
That would be good.
That fun.
Like Foxy the cow in a little ornament,don't you think?
She's a good looking cow?It's like she's a beautiful.
She could win like a blue ribbonat the state fair.
(41:43):
That's how pretty she is.
And you look good in a little.
Yeah, in a little frame.
I'm a sucker for those, like, Christmasornament frames and our Christmas tree
has a thousand ornaments, sowe'll have to figure that out this year.
But that's okay.
That just means that out of love,you know she did that for our family.
And we have the our family up.
And I like it every time I walk by.
(42:04):
Yeah I do like anyone. Yeah.
But I've made them for a lot of people'sfamilies, our families.
But they're very fun, handmade Christmas.
We're thinking about it right now.
All right.
Oh that doesn't that's it for today.
I hope you guys have a great weekand we'll see you guys next week.
Take care. Bye.
(44:50):
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