Ground Up 21: High Country Highlights with Sam Dospoy

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Samhard to, yeah, it's just really cool that y'all get to inter interview him.
RobertYeah. He certainly lived some lives too, you know, like he kind of had a couple different periods, but yeah, it was a fun one for sure.
Ari GrodeYeah.
SamYeah.
Ari GrodeYeah. Yeah. So I would just hate to record one of these and then, you know, find out at the end that we got no audio from the guests.
SamOh, yeah.
Ari GrodeI wouldn't even know what to say, you know,
SamTotally.
RobertYeah.
SamIt's like, oh, I want to do do that again. so

(00:22):
RobertYeah. You crushed it. We botched it.
Samyeah.
RobertLet's run it back.
SamBut, yeah, I got a little head cold that I'm, like, still kind of recovering from a little bit.
RobertUm,
SamI know it's probably like kind of gross to those people listen to people sniffling on a podcast, but I'll try to keep it down a little bit.
Ari GrodeThat's all right. We can, we can edit, we can edit it out.
SamAdded to sniffles. Okay.
RobertYeah, yeah. No worries.
SamCool.
Ari Grodelooks like you're, you said you're in your garage. Like this is where you're, cause you do a, you do van work, right?

(00:45):
Samyeah mean Yeah, I'm in my shop here. So that's the shop. Got a sprinter, pro master, the tools and stuff. Got a board right there.
Ari GrodeI got the, got the Woody.
Samlittle training wall.
RobertOh, that's rad.
SamYeah, man.
RobertThat's rad.
SamYeah.
RobertYeah,
SamYeah, it's a sweet zone, dude. I enjoy it here.
Robertyeah that's sick.
SamIt's fun coming to work.
Ari GrodeWhat do you, you're like, uh, you're building out people's vans basically. Is that the business?

(01:08):
SamYep.
Ari GrodeOkay.
SamYep.
Ari GrodeOkay.
Robertwhat's What's the name?
Ari GrodeHow long you been doing that for?
RobertYeah, what's the name of the business too?
Ari GrodeSorry.
SamIt's a stand-up van, and i've been doing it for about six years now.
RobertYeah.
SamSo, yeah.
Ari GrodeOh, cool.
SamYeah, it's fun, man.
Ari GrodeWhat got you into that?
SamWell, I lived in a van for two years, just traveling around. and Are we starting, by the
RobertYeah, yeah, yeah.
Ari GrodeYeah, we're, we're rolling.

(01:29):
SamRolling. Okay, cool. um Yeah. So I lived in a van for two years. It was a minivan Honda Odyssey. ah Just traveled around out West, climbed a good bit.
Samum Spent some time in like California and where else? Arizona, Waco tanks, just like dirtbagging basically. And

(01:54):
Sami Saw all these six sprinters and was like, dude, I need that. You know, I need a van I can stand up in. And that's like where I got the name for the business.
RobertOh, nice.
Samum
Ari GrodeThat's clever, yeah.
SamYeah. And, uh, but yeah, man. Yeah. So I just did that for a while. And eventually was like, I need my own van and built my own out and did one. Would've been it for a while, took it a apart, built it out. Nice. Sold it. And then that kind of like got me rolling and yeah, I've been doing it ever since.

(02:24):
RobertLove that.
Ari GrodeDid you have kind of a mechanical the like background like that?
SamSo.
Ari GrodeOr did was this a lot of learn on the fly type of stuff?
SamYeah. So a lot of it was learned on the fly for sure. Like with the systems, like electrical systems, plumbing systems, heating, all that. I learned a lot of that on the fly. And then some through like some different training courses I took and um through friends who, you know, like I got an electrician buddy who ah does that work. And so he kind of got me started on some of that stuff. um But I went to product design school and then,

(03:00):
SamI did a lot of like furniture design classes when I was there and that's like what I was really into. So the woodworking part came pretty naturally. And then I've done different like carpentry jobs and work in that field for a while prior to doing the van building.
SamSo had a good setup of like tools and knowledge on how to build stuff. ah Yeah.

(03:23):
Ari Grodeyou you got to partner up with uh pat goodman i know he does like custom floors get it get like a custom floor in the van yeah yeah they're like works of art
SamOh yeah. Dude, yeah, Pat kills it, man. Yeah, dude. Oh, I know. is His floors are so cool. yeah Yeah, he does really cool work um and also puts up or has put up a lot of cool routes as well. But, yeah, Pat's the man.
Samand

(03:43):
Ari Grodeyeah yeah we're trying trying
SamHave y'all had him on the podcast?
RobertHe's on the list.
SamHe's on the list.
RobertYeah.
SamCool. Yeah, he'd be good one, man.
Ari GrodeHe's, I think he's a little, i think he's a little hesitant to sit down, uh, you know, as a lot of people are, but we're, we're hoping that eventually we'll, he'll, he'll break and and come on.
Ari GrodeCause yeah, he's, I mean, man, he's got, yeah.
RobertYeah, just named a crack.
Samah Yeah.

(04:05):
RobertDo you know him pretty well?
Ari GrodeSo you're,
SamMan, I know Pat decently well. Yeah, we've we've climbed together a few times and, um you know, chatted a decent bit about different routes that he's put up around here. um yeah know, I think we maybe first started chatting or met whenever i was trying Ishmael for the first time and, you know, chatting with him about that.
Robertok Okay. Okay.

(04:27):
Samno But yeah, man. Yeah. pat Pat's a buddy and he's he's super cool. And yeah, I respect him a lot for sure.
RobertYeah, he's...
Ari GrodeYeah, i mean, he's kind of a legend in the area that... Because you're you're in the you're in like the high country area, right?
SamYeah, high country, North Carolina. Yeah, I live in like Lindville Falls area. So I'm like five minutes from Lindville Gorge.
Ari GrodeOkay.

(04:48):
SamMy shop's in Boone though.
Ari GrodeOh, wow.
SamAnd yeah, lived in Boone for think like 17 years now.
Ari GrodeOkay.
SamSo originally, was born in Chicago, moved to Asheville when I was 11 years old.
Ari GrodeAre you from that area, or
SamAnd then I feel like I kind of grew up in Asheville and then moved to Boone to go to school at App State. And yeah, stuck around, man.
Ari GrodeOK.

(05:09):
SamStill here and you know, traveled and lived different places for short periods of time, but yeah, I always ended up coming back here.
Ari GrodeYeah, I think the ahead, Rob.
RobertDid you go ahead Ari? No, was going to say when you were living in that, like, did you start climbing when you were in, in Asheville or was it like once you kind of went to App State and then we're in Boone, it's like, okay, this is kind of fun.
SamYeah, I started climbing when I came up here Boone to go to, yeah, my sophomore year from college, I think I was like 20 years old, started climbing, and yeah, it's like,

(05:31):
RobertCool.
RobertNice.
SamPretty awesome place to start climbing. There's you know it's boulders within like 15 minutes of town or less. So yeah, was pretty quick transition from like being a climber at the gym here at the college to going outside and climbing.

(05:57):
RobertYeah, the access would be incredible.
Ari GrodeYeah, I'm pretty stoked.
RobertLike, I feel like, um, i had a similar trajectory where I was like, okay, once I was in college, our school had a climbing gym and that's how I kind of like got into it. But then I was in the middle of Philadelphia.
SamMm-hmm.
RobertSo there wasn't boulders 15 minutes from school.
SamOh, yeah.
RobertThere wasn't like a lot of sport crags or like, you know, there's some choss piles a little ways away, but like, I didn't have that transition into outdoor climbing until much later on. What was it like being able to you know, rock up to a place like the dump or, or go bold or somewhere like 15 minutes away, as you said, as like a college kid while you're, while you're learning how to climb as well.

(06:33):
SamMan, it was awesome. it was It was super fun. You know, like you kind of get little glimpses here and there from folks of like where the – rock climbing is and you know you have a buddy whose like brother took him there like five years ago and you're like try to find the place again you know because there wasn't information out whenever I first started climbing you know like um you know Kaya wasn't a thing not that it's really a thing here anyways but you know there wasn't a guidebook for the area there's really no information the only thing that was out there was this website called Boone Boulders that my buddy Matt DeCamera made and it was like ah website with
RobertNice.

(07:10):
Samlike maybe 20 random YouTube videos of like different boulder problems. and So that was like kind of the information that was out there.
RobertThat's awesome.
Samum But man, it was a lot of fun, you know, going out with just like total noobs. Like we were all just really fresh and didn't know what we were doing. Like I think the first probably like 10 times I went climbing, we brought ah couch cushions out to the boulders.

(07:39):
Ari GrodeNice.
SamSo we're like taking diggers on couch cushions, you know, like, ah yeah.
Ari Grodenice
RobertThat's incredible. Were you like grabbing like the beat up ones from like dorms?
SamYeah, man.
RobertI feel like my school used to like toss out couches like every three years and like you could kind of like put that in your apartment or whatever.
SamOh, yeah.
Robertwhatever So are you guys just like looking for those little free yard sales from App State or how is that

(08:02):
SamWell, my buddy, yeah, my buddy, he had this like really shitty couch that he just like loved so he was like kind of protective of it but it had this like really long cushion that we would take out it was like maybe like five feet long so he would like hold that over our heads and like hike to the boulders yeah ah

(08:22):
RobertThat's hilarious.
Ari GrodeYeah, that's true. not not Not much of a backpack strap on those couch cushions.
Samno dude yeah that was ridiculous like some people would be out there who are like actual climbers with pads and they're just like oh do you like want to borrow this
RobertThat's awesome.
Samfor this pie bowl you're trying, you know? We're
RobertNo, dude, this is Tempur-Pedic.
Samlike, yeah, we're good, dude.
RobertWe're set, man. We're we're fine.

(08:43):
SamWe're like 20 years old, give a shit, you know? It's funny, but yeah.
RobertThat's awesome. So wait, it was that was that website that your buddy Matt put together, did that have like strictly videos and beta on like what you were climbing or did it also have approach beta? Like I kind of imagined seeing like four or five college students with gigantic couch cushions, like walking on trails, really not knowing where they're going or like were you guys kind of guessing or did you at least know where you're headed?
SamDude. Dude.

(09:06):
SamWeird, man. We like maybe got some rough information from some folks, you know, like I think I had one of my buddies, his like brother took him climbing at one of these areas. So we like went to Bowling Rock Boulders and like kind of found it.
SamAnd then um I remember going to Little Wilson, which is like this crag off to 221.
RobertOkay. Yep.
Ari GrodeYeah.

(09:27):
Robertyep
SamThat's like, it's cool for like, you know, your first time climbing or like, um know if you want to go get a few like moderate fishes in, you know, it's pretty cool spot. But he, like the directions for it were like drive down 221 until you see an old fridge and then take a left at the fridge that's like off the side of the road.

(09:48):
SamAnd that was the direction. And so, yeah, we ended up finding it, but yeah, it's like, there wasn't information really on that website either. It was just kind of like, From what I remember, it was just like random YouTube videos of a few different boulder problems. So if you like knew the zone, like if you knew how to get to Grandmother or Blowing Rock, ah you could probably find the boulder and you have like beta on a climb or two.

(10:11):
SamBut yeah, that was kind of the extent of it.
Ari GrodeYeah, that's, I think that's something that's kind of unique, and especially nowadays, because I mean, there's still really isn't, I mean, obviously there's more documented social media on people doing some of these, especially the boulders, but that's kind of a unique thing to that area is there's really not like a guidebook or a lot of like true documentation about like all these different areas.
RobertEarth.
SamYeah.

(10:32):
Ari GrodeI remember, remember, ah My wife and I went out bouldering in in the high country one time and like, it's, it's a fun, it's a different experience, but you, you kind of just, we went to grandmother and it was like, I had done a little bit of searching online for some of these problems, but we really just showed up with a couple of pads and,
SamMm-hmm.
Ari Grodewalked around the area and just tried to find what looked cool to climb. And then you'd run into other people out there.

(10:56):
SamMm-hmm.
Ari GrodeAnd it makes for this different experience where instead of, you know, being so problem driven, like guidebook driven, like I'm going to try this, this, and this, you're like, Oh, well, we're just going to out and climb whatever looks cool. And then, you know, we'll partner up with these random people who say, Oh, I'm trying this problem. And so we'll try it with them. And it,
Ari GrodeI don't know.
SamYeah, no.
Ari Grodeit's It's a unique experience that I feel like most people don't have nowadays because everything's so well documented. Like there's guidebooks for everything, approach beta. So like, yeah, maybe maybe speak to that a little bit because that's kind of unique to that that high country 221 area.

(11:24):
SamYeah.
SamYeah, man. i mean, that's a great observation and that's exactly what it's like. And, you know, there isn't a guidebook here, which that's, you know, been a conscious decision amongst the community for quite some time now to not have a guidebook.
Samah I think that's a really cool aspect of the climbing here, you know, to go out to any of these zones, like you have to talk to people and figure out beta and, you know, make connections with folks.

(11:57):
SamAnd that's, you know, that's your guidebook is, you know, what your homies are telling you. um And so, it is really cool in that way. I think it definitely adds to the community aspect of the area.
SamUm, just getting to meet some old heads, you know, who've been around for a long time and know where everything is. And then, know, not only that, but it's, it's a little bit, uh, more of an adventure, I feel like to go out to these areas and, you know, kind of find your own way. And like you said, go and just climb on whatever looks cool.

(12:31):
SamUm,
RobertYeah, that's...
SamSo yeah, that ah that is definitely a cool and unique part of the climbing in the area.
Robertyeah I can imagine as a ah college student, especially too, those like little bits of, I guess, misinformation or lack of information also make that like adventure element feel even even more magnified because like you're at that stage of just like, oh, everything's new, everything's cool. like

(12:56):
SamMm-hmm.
Robertwhat were What were some of your favorite moments or like favorite projects or boulders that like really stood out when you were like just getting into or like okay i'm hooked this is like a blast i'm i'm leaning into this for a while
SamOh, man. i don't know. That's tough because I feel like it's a constant process of finding a new climb to be psyched on.
Ari GrodeThank you.

(13:22):
Robertyeah
SamYou know, like every, as soon as I send something, I'm like, oh, I want to do this one. And it's like the list never ends. So it's like, yeah, I mean, that definitely started somewhere.
SamI'm trying to remember where, but i would say like probably going going out to Blowing Rock Boulder's was like my first like deep dive into any of the areas around here. um And yeah, I mean, just kind of going up through the grades of Blowing Rock, you know, was like the Mushroom Boulder, you know, there's like probably a bunch of V5s there that are really cool and fun. And then Colt 45 was like my first V7, you know, which is like soft, but

(14:07):
Samit's pretty cool and yeah i remember doing that my buddy tilly i like had just done it and i was like stoked was like dude i was doing cold 45 you know and you he had been around for longer than me and he'd been clowning probably like two or three years before me at this point and uh he's like yeah dude things like pretty hard for v4 isn't it i'm just like damn dude you know so yeah you know it's just classic but uh
Robertah

(14:28):
Ari Grodeah
Ari Groderoasted oh man
RobertI'm sorry.
Ari Grodeoh man
SamBut yeah, man, mean, I'd say like Blowing Rock Boulders is kind of like my first like zone where I like, yeah, really got into it and tried to climb everything I could there. And then, you know, it's like that process is still going. like there's still, you know, stuff there that I haven't done. So, ah you know, it's, yeah, always something new and hard to do. And this area in particular, I feel like sets up for hard climbing really well, hard bouldering for sure. Yeah.

(15:04):
Samjust like the rock is so like dense and good here that like don't know, it forms small holds that stay on the wall and aren't jaws. So it's, uh, yeah, there's a lot of hard stuff.
SamUm, but yeah.
Ari GrodeWhat did you said this was about, um, like 15, 17 years ago.
Samthe
Ari GrodeWhat did the, I mean what did the community then look like?
SamMm-hmm.

(15:27):
Ari GrodeI mean, who were the, who were the people that were kind of, was there a big bouldering community and then who were some of the people, I guess you maybe looked up to or who were kind of driving, you know, development of the scene?
SamYeah. I mean, yeah, the scene at that point. So, I mean, the gym scene was basically the SRC at the college, which is like the the rec center. And there was a climbing wall there with like a 50 foot top rope slash lead wall and like a bouldering area below it. And so that was kind of like, that was the gym scene. And that's where I met all of the people I climbed with at the time.

(16:01):
SamUm, There's definitely a community of folks at that time who had been around for quite quite a while and who established a lot of the climbing in the area. People like, um, like Dean Melton, Joey Henson, um like Jim Horton.
Samum you know, those are all like bouldering guys. And then, uh, there's like, you know, Mike Grimm. Mike True. um Those are two of my like early track climbing mentors. and they you know They were around at the time.

(16:35):
Samum But man, there's been like a lot of people developing here throughout the years. And um you know definitely don't want to like try to list them all off because I know forget a bunch of people. but um But yeah, I mean, there's there's definitely a tight community at that time.
Ari GrodeYeah. What?
SamAnd you know also people like Mike Stamm. i'm putting up just like crazy stuff at the time, you know, like intermounting flame, like that boulder problem he put up.

(17:02):
SamMaybe like, I don't even know when that was, like 2007. There's an Andrew Kornlack video about it. It's really cool. um But it's just like, you know, kind of like futuristic for the time.
Ari Grodewell
Samit's like a gymnastic, like run and jump boulder that's really hard. And, you know, he undergraded everything he did. I feel like during that time, like all of his ascents are like, ah you don't have to take him with a grain of salt because he was so strong.
RobertYeah.
Ari Grodeyou

(17:30):
SamBut yeah, and then, you know, Pat Goodman, he's putting up a bunch of hard trad routes at the time. Like Dave Sherritt was doing that with him Mike's name as well. And yeah, man. so there there was a crew of like really good climbers around here putting stuff up for for a while and that They were around whenever I started climbing. I didn't really get into the scene with any of those dudes at all during that time. You know, it was just like a fresh Gumby.

(17:59):
Samum But yeah, like it was cool, like eventually getting to meet a lot of those dudes and hang out with them and become friends. You know, and they're super welcoming and tell you everything that they know and give you beta.
SamAnd yeah, so yeah, it's a cool part of the community as well.

(18:20):
RobertYeah, that's awesome. you You mentioned Pat, you mentioned you also had a couple of early trad mentors. When did, when did your interest, it sounds like bouldering was like, you kind of like first got introduced to, but when did you start getting interested in climbing some ropes and and pulling on some trad problems?
RobertAnd and what did that process look like early on and how'd that progress a little?
SamI'm trying to think. So I i started bouldering and then it probably took me really not that long to start ah route climbing. I'm trying to think. Maybe I bouldered for like six months or maybe a year before I started route climbing.

(18:56):
SamI think it was just because of yeah was like a poor college student. I didn't have money, so I just had like climbing shoes and a chalk bag for a while.
RobertRight.
RobertCouple of couch cushions.
Samum
RobertYeah.
Samyou Some couch cushions, yeah. ah but yeah Eventually, I went to places like the Dump or Little Wilsons um and yeah started doing some sport climbing.
RobertOkay.

(19:16):
Samand so I did that for probably... like four or five years, maybe five years. Yeah. Before I started track climbing. um And then, yeah, like I never really, ah still to this day, haven't really like dug into sport climbing. And I think a lot of that is because of you know, this area doesn't really lend itself to that.

(19:41):
SamThere's not a lot of sport climbing options. I mean, there's some, and I feel like I've kind of like done the ones that like I'm stoked on. or like most of them that are around here, um just cause there's not a huge quantity of them really. Um, so trad climbing is kind of like the obvious progression. If you're going to be in this area and you're psyched on climbing routes, like you kind of have to learn how to track climb.

(20:06):
SamUm, and so I started track climbing, um yeah, probably around five years after i started climbing and, I learned from a A couple dudes were like pretty, like, just like important guys that I met at that time who helped me ah figure it out.

(20:29):
SamAnd those were Mike True and Mike Grimm. um
Ari GrodeOkay.
SamI met Mike Grimm because he was one of the owners of Misty at the time, Misty Mountain Threadworks.
Ari GrodeOh, nice.
SamAnd I had just started working there.
Ari GrodeYeah.
SamI did my internship there and from college. And ah yeah, so I met him and then through him and Mike True.
RobertOkay.
SamAnd, you know, they're like pretty much only trad climbers. ah And they, yeah, they, they got me stoked and showed me how to place gear, you know, how to lead and all that and um learn some cool tricks and tips from them early on. You know, I think having a, having been mentors like that, who've just been around doing it for so long was crucial and really helped me like so much to just learn the ways.

(21:16):
Samtrack climbing. And also, like, their perspectives were cool, too. You know, like, ah you know, they've been around for so long doing it. And, you know, they're not, like, staunch traditionalists or anything. But, you know, they have definitely, like, they kind of gave me perspective on, like, what it means and why it's cool to, like, do things ground up, for instance. You know, like, and I'm not super hard on ethics at all but um you know it's it's just cool like getting that perspective and learning about the ways that things have been done prior to like you know retro bolting spark climbing uh came around so yeah um so yeah

(22:01):
Ari GrodeYeah, one of my first ah like exposures to your climbing was ah like Misty Mountain used to make a couple.
RobertMm-hmm.
Ari GrodeThey had like a couple of pretty cool YouTube videos. They've got one of you doing, I think it's the Castaway at Shiprock.
Samyeah
Ari GrodeAnd then there's somebody else doing, i can't I can't remember the person's name, doing the brooch.
SamOh, yeah.
Ari GrodeBut man, I've watched those videos so many times.
SamOh, yeah.
Ari GrodeBut ah yeah, yeah, yeah.
SamYeah, Leaf. I think that was Leaf. He's one of my good buddies. Yeah.

(22:24):
Ari Grodeleave Leaf Carter, right?
SamYep.
Ari GrodeYeah, that's a sick video. Like such a cool perspective of, of, or such a cool, like, yeah, perspective of that, of him climbing the brooch. Um, I remember watching you climb the ah castaway and just thinking, holy shit, he looks like he's climbing monkey bars right now.
Ari GrodeLike there those holds must be like absolutely enormous. And I went and climbed it, uh,
SamMan, they're pretty big on the lip there, actually. Those are some pretty good holds.

(22:46):
RobertIs that how you describe it, Mari?
Ari GrodeYeah, but there is like a jug or two, like real good jugs on it, but a lot of them were a little smaller than I was expecting.
Sambut
Ari GrodeThe first time I got on that, I was like, oh shit.
SamYeah. Oh, have you been on that route?
Ari GrodeYeah, I did it. um
SamNice.
Ari GrodeI've been on it a couple times, but I did it last, maybe last fall, I think.

(23:08):
Roberti think it was last last fall, yeah.
SamOh, hell yeah.
Ari GrodeLike la late, yeah, or late summer or something.
Robertremember getting texts about it.
Ari GrodeYeah. Yeah, finally actually got the send. But I remember just thinking like, oh, these holds have to be like enormous.
SamNice.
Ari GrodeHe's just like campus and right through it.
SamYeah,
Ari GrodeAnd I was like, oh, they're not they're not quite as good as I was expecting.
Samyeah.
Robertah
RobertYeah.
SamThat's funny, man.
SamYeah.

(23:29):
Ari GrodeBut ah yeah.
SamThat's a great route, man. I love that zone. Shiprock, God, the stone there is just like unreal.
Ari GrodeOh, the I mean, the castaway is phenomenal.
SamYeah. Mm-hmm.
Ari Grodeum Yeah, ship in general, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, I was going to ask. I mean, so you've you've been you were bouldering a lot. So obviously you're building up a base of strength and like power and, you know, all the things that come with bouldering.
SamMm-hmm.
Ari GrodeI mean, how did that ah how did your trad climbing take off, you know, with some of those skills that you developed bouldering? Like, did you did you take to it pretty quickly or what did that look like?

(23:58):
SamYeah, I think so, man. I think bouldering is the key for hard climbing. and It's like the hardest, I feel like the hardest skill or ability to get in climbing is that like strength that you get from bouldering.
Samum And then like the endurance aspect, I feel like comes really quick relatively to that. So yeah, starting from a you know, a bouldering background, I feel like it was is a good transition.

(24:27):
Saminto route climbing and especially this area because know the boulders are this or like the route climbing is essentially just like an extension of the bouldering like all the cliffs that are on the side of grandfather like on 221 or above 221 are it's the same rock that's below know like all those boulders like fell off of the cliffs so like just learning how to climb on that specific rock I feel like really helped with the route climbing

(24:57):
Ari GrodeDid you, I mean, were you mainly just repeating classics or, i mean, what did that look like?
SamYeah.
Ari GrodeCause I mean, you've got some, you know, you, you've eventually done some, either some really significant repeats of, of some test pieces or like put up some of your own lines. I mean, I guess talk us through that a little bit.
Samyeah um Yeah, man. So I like, yeah, just kind of work through the classics, you know, projected thing. My first 512 was unwritten law at the dump, you know, that pretty classic fun.

(25:25):
RobertNice. Yeah, yeah. Huge dino, yeah.
SamYeah, Dino Route. And yeah, man, just kind of worked through the worked up through the classics and the grades through, yeah, sport climbing at at the dump. And then, yeah, trad climbing at Shiprock. shipwrock and took some trips up to the new, which I think is the best cragging on the planet.

(25:53):
Ari GrodeOh yeah.
SamWe haven't been to a lot of, like, that really that many cragging areas, but God, it's so good. Like anytime I go out West and climate, you know, places like the Valley or you know, Tahoe or, you know, tree or wherever, you know, like these classic areas that are, you know, world known. It's like coming back to the new, I'm always just like, man, this is just the best place for rock climbing. Like it's so good.

(26:23):
RobertThe new is pretty mega.
Samum But yeah, it's so mega dude.
RobertIt's hard to beat for sure.
SamGod, the trad and the sport. um everything yeah so and bouldering yeah um but yeah so
RobertEverything.
RobertWere you, were you climbing more? You climbing when you got the new, like, were you still in that kind of sport climbing phase? I mean, know that was short lived for you, but like, was that mainly sport climbing or were you doing trad when you went up there?
Samyeah i man every time i go to the new i usually do a mix um i feel like i always go there with the attention sport climbing and then end up track climbing

(26:48):
RobertOkay.
SamAnd the, like, I have to like consciously be like, okay, I'm not taking any gear with me right now. Like I'm only going sport climb today.
Ari GrodeHa ha ha.
SamUm, because there's so much good sport climbing there. Uh, it's kind of insane. Um, but yeah, whenever I go there, yeah, it's just kind of, I do usually do a little bit of both.

(27:11):
SamUm, and I'll take like a one or two day trip. I haven't been there in a few years, but yeah, i feel like it's usually just like a couple of days I spend up there and kind of poke around and climb stuff that I can do in a session.
SamUm, not really, I just really haven't like spent time like projecting there, which I would love to do at some point, like spend several months up there and just like really dig in because there's a lot of harder lines there that are just inspiring.
RobertYeah.

(27:40):
Samthat I would love to like put some time into.
RobertAbsolutely. When, when was your first trip up there?
Samuh,
RobertLike, were you still in college or it a little bit afterwards or like kind of how far into your climbing were you when you,
SamMan, I think I went to the new for the first time. when was it? i must have been in college, yeah.
Ari GrodeThank you.
SamI think I went with my buddy Chris and Cody, and we went and did some sport climbing. Yeah, so it was before I had tried climbing.

(28:07):
RobertOkay, nice.
SamYeah.
RobertLeft the couch cushions at home for that one.
SamLeft the couch, coaches didn't home. Yeah, I just took the rack, and, you know, we were like, I mean, still this point, it's like we're probably, you know, just Gumby's, like, just trying figure it out.
SamAnd, you know, the bolting at the new, like if you're kind of fresh and sport climbing, the bolting can be like kind of intimidating sometimes, I think, um you know, just like spaced out, ah you know, sometimes the first bolts like kind of off the ground and usually a pretty long run to the anchors, but,
RobertYeah, yeah.

(28:35):
RobertYeah.
SamI love it now.
Ari GrodeI feel like it.
SamLike, it's fun to me, like the way it's bolted. Just like, I mean, i don't know. Doug Reed is a tall dude, and so all his routes, it's like sometimes you like really have to reach for the clip.
RobertOh, yeah.
SamBut ah but yeah, i really enjoy it now.
Ari GrodeYeah.
SamIt's like a little bit more adventurous than and going like somewhere to the red or something like that, where it's like little bit closer.

(29:02):
Ari GrodeYeah. I feel like if you come from, if you, if you cut your teeth in North Carolina, the new doesn't feel like all too, you know,
SamYeah.
Ari Grodeintimidating because like you said, it's kind of similar.
SamYeah, it's on par for sure.
Ari GrodeYeah. But I can imagine if you came from somewhere else checking out the new, you might be like, Oh, wow.
Samoh yeah. Yeah, like, holy shit.
Ari Grodehundred foot route with eight bolts on it. Like, Ooh.
SamYeah. Yeah, yeah. yeah yeah

(29:24):
Ari GrodeUm, yeah.
Samto
Ari GrodeSo I wanted to jump in a little bit. I i know you've, you, you do, or you have done, ah you know, a bit of development, both bouldering and, um, and rope climbing.
Ari GrodeUh, I mean, was that something that kind of just, Started to happen as you kind of progressed, you started to just find some, some open, either open projects or some new areas. Like you want to talk us through a little bit of how you got into maybe, you know, actually developing some areas or or some new routes in some of these areas you climb out a lot.

(29:52):
Samyeah um yeah i think uh it was kind of always something like natural for me is just like going out and like seeing something without chalk on it and you're like oh man i wonder if that's been done like this looks really cool and just that whole process of like going up to a blank piece of rock and like trying to figure it out for me has always just been really fun um And, you know, in this area, since there's not guidebooks, you're always kind of like going on a little bit of adventure.

(30:23):
SamLike, you know, you see a boulder from the road that you've never seen before. and it's like, gonna go check that out. or just go on a random hike in the woods and find some rock. and It's, yeah, there's a lot of rock in the area.
SamAnd, you know, i would say most of it has probably been climbed on or at least seen by somebody.
Robertyou
Samum But there's definitely still stuff that hasn't been done. or been climbed on at all. um And so it's kind of like, you know, it's not like the great frontier of climbing. It's not going to somewhere like Tahoe where there's just like endless boulders everywhere.

(30:59):
SamBut um there is quite a few, there are quite a few areas here that are, you know, yet to be discovered and, you know, haven't been climbed on. And I think a lot of it is just like the way that the wood's set up here. There's a lot of rotos and like thick woods. And so,
Samin order to even find a boulder, like you kind of have to be right on top of it. You know, there's not like really long view, areas where you can just like see everything.

(31:28):
SamSo you kind of to go hunting for it, which was fun. And yeah, so I guess for me, it was just like kind of a fun way to be in the woods and, you know, find new climbs. And, um, I think as far as like,
Samuh, route development, like, honestly, haven't done a ton of route development. Um, but how I started with that was, uh, I think, you know, Mike Graham and true, they were like, they saw me as this dude who, you know, was stronger than them and who could like, you know, climb stuff if they couldn't. So they like, dude, like you should go do this thing because it's sick.

(32:07):
SamAnd like, I'm never going to do it kind of thing, you know, like they're,
RobertNice.
Sambut I think one of the first routes I ever developed was this thing down at the Hemlock Wall, um which is at 221.
Ari GrodeOkay. but Where's the hemlock wall? That's not an area I'm familiar with.
SamIt's like below 221.
Ari GrodeOkay.
SamGetting to it now, I think it's technically on private property. ah At the time, Mike True lived in the neighborhood of the dude who owned it, and he had permission to go down there, so we were able to like drive down kind of close to the crag.

(32:41):
Samand get down there that way. Now it's like you would have to hike from 221 to get to it. And it's definitely like a bit of a hike, um pretty steep, but I think you could still get, go there. And I think it's, I can't, don't, don't quote me, but I think it's on public land or it's like right on the line, like crag itself.

(33:02):
Samum But yeah, so there's, there's a route there that goes up this like really steep overheating pillar. really cool feature but it was always like all the dudes who were going down they were like you know that's like the future zone and you know we haven't messed with that yet but Mike True was like dude I'm gonna like take you off this and we're gonna you know you're gonna bolt it or we're gonna put it up together and yeah you should do it and so he he like got me really stoked and he was stoked on it so i was just like a pretty easy intro into route development and

(33:38):
Samyou know, we did it ground up, which was cool. So we're hanging on hooks and drilling bolts and, uh, you know, that whole experience was just like, for me, it was really fun. And just like seeing how everything was done and getting to be, you know, kind of exposed, um, hanging on hooks, drilling bolts, like that that was just a cool experience to me.

(34:04):
Sambut yeah, so that's like,
Ari Grodewhat does i mean what does that What does that look like going up something so steep? i can't and i mean Everybody says you're hanging in on hooks, but like it's not like it's not like hook placements are all, at least from what I understand, it's not just like they're right in front of you and it's like, okay, I'll just hang on, whatever.
Samyeah oh yeah dude for sure no i definitely like took several like hook whips yeah
Ari Grodeyou know i mean what is i mean Are you ever falling, like ripping some of these hooks out? or like What does that look like?

(34:25):
RobertAnd also, and also just to like a little bit of, I was going to say a little bit of context too, like about like, what was the grade for that? Just like, so people can picture like how blank or not blank this wall was.
Samuh man i i don't know how hard it is honestly it's like it's hard to grade but i think it's probably in like range um
RobertOkay.

(34:45):
Ari GrodeOkay.
Samum
RobertSo it's thinner.
SamIt's like, yeah, it's pretty, it was pretty thin for sure.
RobertYep.
Samwas just like, you know, it was kind of like one hard boulder problem in the second, in the middle of it, uh, like a steep wall. And then after that, it's maybe like 12 plus to the top.
SamBut, um, but yeah, it was, uh, definitely taking some whips on hooks, uh, pulling off choss flakes, you know while hooking. So yeah, it was an an adventure just, uh, going up there and trying to figure it out. But yeah, we placed bolts all the way up. So.

(35:17):
Samyou know, if you're whipping, it's onto a pole.
Ari Grodeyeah yeah
SamIt's not like, yeah, I'm just like a endless line of hooks. Um, but yeah.
RobertJust 14 hooks just ripping after one after another.
SamOh my God. Yeah. I've done that before. And that was, that was scary too, but yeah.
Robertbut when When did that happen?
SamMan. So on that, um, the, the brat developed at Hawksville, um, it still a project. Um, yeah, that was, ah yeah, a lot of hooking on that. Um,

(35:46):
SamSo I, for that route, I don't know if y'all had seen that at all, or there's some photos out there circulating of it.
Ari Grodei've i've seen I've seen that picture.
RobertYep.
Ari Grodethat who took Who took that photo?
SamBrian Miller, Fixed Line Media.
Ari GrodeOkay. Oh, man.
SamYeah.
RobertOkay.
Ari GrodeFuck. That is such a...
SamYeah. He takes some bangers, man.
Ari GrodeThat's it that's a banger photo.
SamBut yeah.
RobertYeah.
SamYeah.
Ari Grodei've seen I saw that. That was like... I was like, what is this route? That is like absolutely stunning.

(36:08):
SamOh, I know.
Ari Grodeum I've never seen it in person.
SamYeah. Yeah.
Ari GrodeI've never been to the upper Hawksbill wall. ah But yeah. Okay. So that's still a project.
SamYeah, still project. Yeah, I think there was like some misprint in a AAC journal or something of like saying that I had done it. But no, I have not said that just to clear the air there.

(36:30):
Samum But yeah, so that route, I mean, developing that, it was, I first wrapped it just to see if there was a route there, basically. You because you look at it from the ground, you're like, holy shit, that is a sick feature. This is crack.
Samthat kind of runs all the way across the wall, just like really pretty. Um, it's overhung by maybe like 20 degrees. The stone is like really lightly colored, um, is really, really pretty rock. Um, but yeah, so I wrapped down it just to see if it was a thing, you know, and you can't really see it that well because it's overhung. so you can't get into the wall and I didn't want to wrap bolt it. So I just kind of like wrapped down it just to see. And then,

(37:15):
Samwent out there with my buddy Cody and he belayed me to you know, I kind of like, I've done this before. This wasn't the first time I'd done this, but I went up it and I wanted to aid it just to see like what it was like, you know, kind of like a fun exercise almost just like to go up the route and just check it out.
Ari GrodeMm-hmm.

(37:39):
Samum And I think I had assumed maybe there was a little bit more gear than there actually ended up being, but You know, the crack took some gear and ah I can hold back up a little bit. But yeah, so there's a first pitch that is it's an existing 510 two pitch climb.
SamSo you climb the first pitch of this 510 and then you traverse left across the ledge to get to the base of where this like thinner crack starts. um And so.

(38:06):
Ari GrodeIs this is this five ten like on the main Hawksville wall? or
SamNo, it's on this upper tier.
Ari GrodeI've never actually been to Upper Hawksville. so So, okay. So, Upper Tier has some like multi-pitch up there.
Samthe
Ari GrodeOkay. Gotcha.
Samyeah so it's kind of like yeah it's this upper tier and it's so like not a lot of people climb in there like i had only hiked there one time with leaf and we just you know went out there and just basically look at the crag and see what it was like because we've never been up there but um you have to like hike to the top of the mountain and then like kind of scramble down this little like kind of cliff thing to get to it.

(38:43):
SamSo it's a little bit harder to get to than the rest of the Hawksville zones.
Ari GrodeMm-hmm.
SamSo I think that's why people don't climb there as much, but the rock's really good up there. um And but yeah, so the or getting to, you know, you so you do that first pitch of that 510, traverse left, and get to the base of where this route starts.

(39:04):
Samum And there's just like a one bolt anchor there. So just go into a bolt and then I ended like pulling the rope through. so there's less drag and just drop the rope back down to the blayer and then they play from the ground.
SamUm, but yeah, so i took my buddy Cody out there. I was like, dude, I really need to catch on this. You know, like I want to go check this route out. out He's like, okay, man. And so we go out there and, ah um, I'm like starting up this thing, going aid it. And you know, the crack takes like kind of funky gear for the most part.

(39:36):
SamUh, it's like, I think, mostly offsets um and i don't think i had offsets at the time so i was like placing some like less than ideal pieces of gear in the crack um and then the crack kind of like it like kind of it like flares out a lot towards like the end of it like the last like 20 feet of it like are really flaring and i couldn't find any

(40:10):
Samhead wall which is like, oh man, i could.
Ari Grodeah oh hold Hold on a sec.
Roberti i think we I think we lost that for a second.
Ari GrodeHold on a sec.
SamOkay.
Ari Grodewe Right when you said flaring, we we it cut out for a second.
SamOkay.
Ari Grodeyeah
SamLet me drink here.
SamMy back.
Ari GrodeYeah, yeah. It sounds good now.
SamOkay, cool. Yeah, I got a call on my phone. I think maybe that's what did it, but yeah.

(40:33):
RobertOkay.
Ari GrodeYeah.
Samum But yeah, so the crack was like pretty flaring. um And it was just like, yeah, 20 feet of like flaring crack. I didn't really see any obvious places where I could get gear like aid out the rest of the way.
Samah But straight above, I was like, you know, obviously some hook placements. If you've ever been Hawksbill, there's like a lot of like in cut edges at like at middle Hawksbill, like on the 12 wall, for instance.

(40:59):
RobertMm-hmm.
Ari GrodeYeah.
SamSo there was a lot of like that sort of feature.
Ari Grodeyeah
SamAnd I was like, okay, i know what those are like. They're or a little in cut. I think I can get some hooks in those. um And then I saw a tiny little crack above that. And then eventually like a little bit bigger crack. i was like, okay, i can get some gear eventually.

(41:21):
Samand I'll just have to hook kind of in between these gear placements. um But it ended up being like a lot more hooking and less gear. So i was like, i mean, it's probably like a maybe like 30 foot,
Samsection where I really didn't get much decent gear at all. And it was like mostly hooks, like a maybe place, like a really small cam.

(41:48):
SamAnd, but yeah, i was just like mostly hooking up this thing. And, uh, it was terrifying, man, honestly. Uh, like, I don't know, like eight grades really, but like, and I don't know if I would hit the ground from there, but it was definitely like, it was always scary and pretty sketchy.
Samum
Ari Grodeyou didn't You didn't fall off that, did you?
SamAnd I think, no, I didn't fall you're hitting that.

(42:08):
Ari Grodeyou you You got got to the top?
SamNo, definitely not.
Ari GrodeOkay.
RobertThank God.
Ari Grodeyeah
SamMy aid skills were a little bit better at the time.
RobertThank God. Oh
SamAlso, it wasn't like, yeah. But yeah, it was, ah it was heady. And I think Cody was actually more scary than I was. It was like probably like a four hour delay.
Robertum my goodness.
SamYeah, it was heinous. But yeah, yeah, I made it up. And yeah, that was, i don't know, kind of a fun way to do it. Just like go check it out and, I actually did that same thing on um fire in the hole at Shiprock.

(42:41):
SamJust kind of like went up it, ate it up it just to see.
RobertOkay.
Ari GrodeYeah, yeah
SamAnd um yeah, I don't know. I don't why decided to do that those routes, but it ended up being kind of a fun way to go check the cliff out.
Ari Grodeyeah.
Ari GrodeNot that I want to move away from this Hawksbill project too much, but that fire in the hole root has always interested me. like it ah For the listeners, i mean it's there's there's the brooch, which is like ah you go up this face and then you break out on this like overhanging, kind of like
SamHmm.

(43:10):
Ari Grodejug ladder traverse with nothing but air underneath you for like 25, 30 feet.
SamYeah.
Ari GrodeIt's amazing. And then the first in flight route kind of stays up more. It's more like Verde, slightly overhung vert climbing. Right. And then it kind of traverses above the brooch and you figured out a way to link the two through what looks like an impossible boulder problem, uh, you know, with, with nothing but air underneath you.
SamYep.

(43:32):
SamYeah. it
Ari GrodeI mean, like, how'd you get the vision for that?
SamYeah. It's super airy, man. Really. Yeah. That's awesome. um It had been tried previously by Pat um and Cruz McLean.
Ari GrodeOkay.
SamI know those two for sure tried it. i don't know if anyone else had tried it, but it was, it was like a ah known project. um

(43:56):
Ari GrodeGotcha.
SamAnd, but yeah, so really, I think it honestly just needed that bolt that's in there. it Cause it was just, Like, I think they were trying to try to climb it fully.
SamUm, and it just didn't really like go that way because your handhold, the only handhold you have on the lip of the route is like where you also place gear.
Ari GrodeOkay. Okay.

(44:18):
SamAnd even then it's like not very good. so you kind of have to like get around onto the face to place your first piece. And it's like after the crux of the climb. Um, and if you, if you fell off the crux, yeah, you would like probably swing in and hit the wall below the bridge.
Ari GrodeYou would take an absolutely monster whipper if you fell.
SamSo that's like why it hadn't been done yet.
Ari GrodeYeah, holy shit.
SamSo yeah.
Ari GrodeOkay.

(44:39):
RobertYeah, seems like a good spot for a bolt.
SamSo yeah, that bolt helped a lot. Yeah, exactly.
Roberthow long did How long did that one take in terms of, obviously, bolting would be quick, but like how long were you working on that one?
Samuh,
Samyeah I don't think very long, dude. I think I, uh, so I put that bolt in one day and then I didn't try that day. And I think I did it the next session. So like, it was like a couple of goes, I think, um,

(45:01):
Ari Grodebut the put those bouldering skills to to good use. What is that?
SamYeah, for sure.
RobertYeah.
Ari Grodeit's like What is it? V6 or seven boulder problem or something? or
SamI'd say it's probably like a V7, yeah. You kind of do like, yeah, you do some cool moves like coming out into the crack that's like perpendicular to the brooch.
Ari Grodeseven
Samah you Do a big cross through move, clip that bolt, and then like do another move out left, and then you have to like do this like wild like ninja kick move where you like kick the wall, like generate some momentum, and then like stab a really low foot.

(45:34):
Samand then do like a rose move and get out on the face of first flight.
Ari GrodeWow.
SamAnd yeah, it's a, it's a pretty, ah yeah, bouldery sequence, like kind of gymnastic, really, really cool route though. ah the I think the true line there though, is if you were to take that and then go out the next roof, like that would be the, the King line, I think there.

(45:57):
Ari Grodelike Like climb up from first in flight instead of outright.
SamYeah.
Ari GrodeOh, wow.
SamYeah. So it's kind of like, I mean that,
Ari Grodeah ah
SamYou know, the the fire in the hole is a cool, like, variation for sure. um But, yeah, in my mind, it, like, I think it needs to go out that next roof. And I really haven't messed with that yet, but it's something need to – it's on the list of of things to do.
Ari GrodeAll right.

(46:19):
Ari GrodeYeah, you got to get Misty Mountain to make a video of at least foot fire in the hole because, man, that's like a picturesque area to shoot on because it's nothing but air for a long ways.
Samlong list.
SamYeah. Yeah, it is, man. Yeah, it's a beautiful, beautiful zone, fun exposure out there for sure. um
Ari GrodeYeah.
SamBut yeah, i actually, so those videos, those Misty videos, I was working at Misty at the time. And, you know, for me at the time, I was like, you know, just dirtbagging, really like not, I was just like, you port rock climber basically. And they were like, yeah, we'll pay you for like a normal day's work to go out and make a climbing video.

(46:55):
SamLike, okay, it's sick. That's like dream job, you know?
Robertah
SamSo yeah, that's where all those videos came from. Yeah.
Ari GrodeOh, nice. ah Okay.
SamYeah.
Robertthat's cool
Ari GrodeSo, so let's, should we, I want to get back to that Hawksbill project. So you, you aided it.
Robertyeah yeah
SamYeah.
Ari GrodeUm, and then what, what did equipping it look like?
Samwho yeah
Ari GrodeI mean, you said there wasn't much, there was some gear and then there was sections where there was no gear. Uh, so what'd you, did you end up like equipping it? I assume with some bolts, uh, to, to at least in the spots without any good gear.

(47:23):
SamYeah.
SamYeah. For sure. So ah there was an old self-drive bolt ah at the very beginning of the route. And I searched around forever to try to figure out who it was, who put that in. I think it was Ryan Beasley, not a hundred percent sure.

(47:44):
Samum I actually needed talk with him and see for sure. But, um, yeah, it was just like an abandoned thing, you know, it's obvious that they put that one bolt in or like, Nope.
SamUm, e but yeah, so I replaced that bolt. Um, and then Yeah, and all all the I did all hand drilling too on the route just because it was like you're not allowed technically to have power tools in the gorge or use power tools.

(48:16):
SamSo, yeah, hand drilled all the bolts from...
Ari Grodehow How long does it take to drill hand drill a bolt in that quartzite?
Samah Man, it's like, um I can't...
Ari GrodeIt's got to take forever.
SamI don't know. I don't think it's that long. I also had just like been framing... like houses. And so I was like really, really good on the hammer at the time.

(48:37):
Ari GrodeI've been training.
Robertmans Man's in peak, peak bolting shape right now, dude.
SamDude. Yeah. Peak hammer form. Definitely. ah But man, I would say like maybe 15 minutes per volt or something of like really like kind of getting after it.
Ari GrodeOh, wow, okay. alright
SamYeah.
RobertI mean, that's, you said that doesn't take that long, but that, I mean, we've, we've bolted with a hammer drill before. and It's a lot less than 15 minutes.

(49:01):
SamYeah.
RobertYeah.
SamOh, yeah, dude. I mean, yeah, it's like 20 seconds. there's but bit
RobertYeah.
Samum But yeah, so yeah, it was like 15 minutes of just like ting, ting, ting, ting.
Robert15 minutes? Wow.
SamYeah, definitely a workout. And yeah, so yeah, hand bolted all that stuff or hand drilled. And I went up. Mike Grimm belayed me on it.

(49:26):
SamI feel like he also belayed me on fire in the hole when I put that up. He's kind of like the guy who I don't know. He's like the guy who taught me how to do a lot of that stuff. And so it's just cool, like getting to do that with him.
Samum But yeah, so yeah hand drilled a bolt at the beginning of the route and the, or at the beginning of the crack and then all gear through the crack to the end of it.

(49:53):
SamAnd then there are, i think four bolts on the head wall and yep.
Ari Grodethat's the section that you ended up hooking through. Okay.
SamYeah, four bolts up there. That's what the crux is as well. And then there's a single bolt anchor because i was hand drilling and I didn't want to put in two. Yeah,

(50:14):
Ari GrodeOkay.
Samyeah but eventually I might go back and put another one in.
RobertBear.
SamBut i don't know, the rock's really good. Yeah. um
Ari GrodeYeah. For, for those who haven't seen it, I'll, we'll, we'll put it in the show notes, but this picture of, of, of this project is insane. Just to...
SamYeah, it's insane, man. It's like, and it's one of those things. It's so hard. It's such a hard route, but it's always just like in the back of my mind. Like, even if I haven't tried it in a while, it's still like in the back of my mind is like an active project that, you know, I need to get done.

(50:48):
Ari GrodeHave you gotten pretty close or what? I mean, how how long you been trying that thing?
Sami would say no, I've not gotten close. I haven't tried it in a couple of years.
Ari GrodeOkay.
SamYou know, I've done a lot of moves, but like maybe like two hung it once or something is like as close as I got.
Ari GrodeOkay.
Ari GrodeDo you have any sense of how like hard it is? i mean...
SamMan, think it's probably like in the 14 BC range, I would say, likely.

(51:11):
Ari GrodeOkay.
RobertWow, that's pretty stout.
SamYeah, it's pretty stout. It's just like sustained crimpers ah through that head wall to like maybe like a V10 boulder problem, like at the very end. No rest in between.
Ari GrodeHeartbreak.
SamSo it's like, it's hard. And that's, I think that's why I haven't been back out there or spent much time out there is because I know that I need to be like peak form, even to like get on it and have a good session.

(51:37):
Samand it's like, yeah, I just haven't felt that way really as far as like being peak, like power endurance, crimp form.
Ari GrodeHas ah anyone else tried it with you?
SamUm, uh, I think, ah yeah a couple of people have like got on it with me for sure.
Ari Grodeor
Ari GrodeOkay.
SamUm, trying to think who's been out there, man. I really don't remember, honestly. think Cody tried it a little bit. And then my friend Amy, she tried it some. um But yeah, I mean, there's always plans, you know, like I feel like every year I talk to people and they're like, you let's go try that thing.

(52:10):
SamI'm like, dude, I'm psyched, you know, let's go out. And it just like, hasn't happened. don't know. There's like so much to do. It's hard to, it's just hard, man. There's just so much, you know, so many projects. And I ended up getting stuck kind of like bouldering just because,
Ari GrodeOkay.
SamI don't know, the past few years I've been working a lot and having the business, you know, it's like definitely a little bit less time to get out and, you know, spend a full day at the crag.
RobertThank you.

(52:35):
SamSo bouldering ends up being the obvious option there. um But yeah, mean, it's it's definitely the the route and the thing I want to do the most for sure.
Ari Grodeokay Yes.
SamYeah.
Ari GrodeWell, I'm stoked to hear youve you. You're still working on that. Cause I mean, I saw that picture, like actually I've got your Instagram up right now is a 282 weeks ago. So the things, yeah, I wasn't sure.

(52:56):
SamNo, yeah. Yeah, it's been a while.
Ari GrodeI wasn't sure if you were still working on it or anything, but that's cool.
SamYeah, I mean, like, not actually working on it, but, like, mentally working on it, you know, for sure.
Ari GrodeBut, but like, yeah, you didn't, you didn't like move away and it's just abandoned.
SamYeah.
Ari Grodeum
SamYeah, not abandoned.
Ari GrodeYeah.
SamI moved closer, actually. I live, like, close to the gorge now.
Ari GrodeYeah.
SamSo, yeah, that was kind of the back of my head when I bought bought the place I live.
Ari GrodeOkay.

(53:19):
SamI'm like, dude, and I need to, like, do this thing.
Ari GrodeOh, sick. Okay.
SamYeah.
Robertwhen's ah When's the, when's the peak time for you to get on it?
Ari GrodeCan I ask?
Samuh spring or fall like it needs to be like kind of perfect conditions i think for me to have a chance at it yeah definitely definitely dude
RobertOkay. Yeah.
Ari GrodeCan I, can I ask about a couple other, uh, projects you were involved in that, that have gone down? Um, there's, there's two that are on my mind that I really want to like, just selfishly learn more about, but I think they'd be sick to talk about, uh,

(53:47):
Samyeah hmm
Ari GrodeIshmael, the the Pat Goodman, like i mean when i i remember when I bought the High Country Guidebook that they put out recently, you start seeing you start looking at areas like Moon Rock, Stack Rock, like all these areas that where it seems like mainly developed by Pat Goodman.
Ari GrodeAnd they're all these like nails hard, 512, 513 RX type of climbs, but the stack rock right off the, the two 21 highway, you know, has that infamous, uh, Ishmael route.

(54:09):
SamYeah.
Ari GrodeAnd I know you're like one of the only people that's repeated it. Um, am I talking about that a little bit?
SamYeah, dude, for sure.
Ari GrodeLike what got you, mo what got you motivated for it? And I mean, what that roots actually like and,
Sami mean, man, Pat is just a legend as far as this area and putting up hard, sketchy routes. like It's kind of insane, the amount of stuff that he did in that zone of like, you know, stack rock, moon rocks.

(54:42):
Samum And they're all like true to that same style of, you know, just using whatever gear is available and placing a bolt maybe, but probably not, you know? So it's, a yeah, it's it's really cool what he did there. And i mean, I just really appreciate the style of development that he did.

(55:06):
Samyou know it's it's really easy i think for folks to come in and say you know this would be an awesome sport crag or you know why and aren't there bolts here and you know i get that for sure because it is like more accessible and more people would climb on it but don't know thinking about the area as a whole and those areas in particular it's almost like it's an extension of the bouldering around the area so yeah know for instance like moon rocks it's right next to all the 221 bouldering, like the main areas of 221.

(55:41):
SamAnd it's essentially like those routes and that crag are, it's just a big boulder. And so, you know, you're looking at this rock and it's like, you know, instead of following a line of bolts, you're trying to figure out, you know, where the climb goes by looking at the features of the rock.
SamAnd i don't know, there's just something really cool about that to me. of, you know, going bouldering on 221 and then hiking 200 yards to Mood Rocks. And it's like, oh, sick. This is like the same thing that I was just doing, just 60 feet tall, you know? um So, yeah, it's kind of like ah I don't know, it's like a cohesive experience for me going to those crags um and climbing on those routes that are basically just boulders.

(56:30):
Samum But, Yeah, so Ishmael, I got psyched on that. I think after seeing, i mean, one, seeing the route itself.
Samis because it's a beautiful line, you know, it's like, goes through these dihedrals on the, uh, towards the bottom, you know, kind of traverse and climb up through a couple of dihedrals. And then there's just like this beautiful splitter crack section, um, with like this awesome, like sloper ball, just sitting in the middle the route. That's like, it's just such a sick grip.

(57:05):
SamIt's like this, perfect sloper. it would be like on a, you know, gym climbing wall or something. just like made to climb on. um And yeah, it just, it's a beautiful line, man. So I think I really got inspired by seeing it and then seeing photos of Pat on it.
Samum And it was like, know, I gotta go check this thing out. And so, yeah, I mean, projecting that is just like a top rope to the bunch, you know, it's definitely a head point.

(57:34):
SamI'd be extremely impressed if someone went ground up on that. That would just be an insane testament of skill if you were able to go up to that ground up. And I mean, people probably could do it, but it would be insane just because like the gear is tricky.
Samthe you know the The sequences are pretty intricate. but But yeah, man. So yeah, Top Rope did a bunch, got the gear dialed.

(58:03):
SamAnd and
Ari GrodeWhat's the gear like? is there Is there much? Because it gets like 13CX-ish rating.
Samknow
Ari GrodeSo I just can imagine there's not much.
SamYeah, I think, yeah, like 13 CRX, yeah. And so, yeah there's not much gear, dude. There's like, yeah, really minimal gear on the first. So you climb probably like maybe 20 feet and then you get 0.3 that protects you for like five feet.

(58:29):
SamAnd then you're like kind of soloing through this like 12 minus section through the dihedrals. to like a pretty good horizontal break uh from there you get this like really specific nut that pat made and i borrowed the nut for the ascent and i think everyone who's done it has also used the same nut like hammered a hex to like fit in this little slot that like i mean it fits in this slot but

(58:52):
RobertThat is...
SamLike, i don't even know if like the gear would hold honestly, cause it's like in kind of this, like, it's almost like a flake. It's like kind of attached, but not like totally attached to the wall. So it's like, it would probably hold a fall, but I would not want to test it.

(59:14):
SamI don't think anyone has tested it. I don't know for sure, but maybe Pat tested it.
Ari GrodeThank
SamI don't know.
RobertYeah. you You mentioned you were chatting with Pat about the route quite a bit on that.
SamUm,
RobertLike, did you ever ask, Oh, when he handed you that nut, like, is this actually, does anyone know if this works or like, yeah.
SamMan, I didn't bother to ask. I don't know. It's one of those things. Like, hopefully you wouldn't fall on that piece. Like, yeah. But yeah, no, it's not something you want to test really.

(59:40):
RobertYeah. Yeah. well Little, little mental piece for sure.
SamUm, a little mental piece. Yeah. It kind of makes you like, you can get it from like this resting stance and it kind of makes the resting stance a little more restful. Cause you're like, okay, i have something that like would probably hold me.
Samum But yeah, and then, so yeah, you get this like resting stands place on nut. And then above that is like a really small cam and kind of like a flaring spot. It's like another one you really don't want to test.

(01:00:09):
Samum Yeah, like really don't, I never tested that one either. ah But then you do the first crux of the route, which is probably like a v seven um up to that sloper ball.
Ari GrodeOkay.
SamSo you're doing youre doing that V7 on gear that you really don't want to fall on. um And I don't know if Pat fell there. I imagine i think he think he maybe said he did. I forget, man. like You'll have to talk to him about it.

(01:00:36):
Sambut but But yeah, so you do that hard sequence.
RobertYeah, yeah.
SamAnd then you get like the first good gear of the route, which is a stopper. And I backed it up with like ah a double zero, like above it. So it wouldn't come out. Cause it's like, it's kind of in a flaring space where you really like any upward pull would definitely pop it out.

(01:00:59):
SamSo yeah get a good nut and then double zero above it. And then red point crux of the route is it's like cool, like Gaston sequence through some small crimps. um And that was the only piece I actually fell on.
SamSo one red point attempt, I fell there. And then I sent on my next go.

(01:01:21):
SamBut yeah.
Ari Grodebut When you, when you fell off that thing, was there a moment where you were like, everything's going to pull and I'm going to hit the ground or, or, or, or was it kind of just, you were locked in and you fell and like, it was over, you know, like the thing caught you.
RobertI'm dead.
SamYeah, man. Yeah. You know, it's like,
Samyeah, I think at that point, man, I was in a pretty good headspace for that sort of thing.
Ari Grodeand
SamLike, I had been doing other like trad routes and been just like climbing a lot of trad at the time and falling on gear, really just like feeling comfortable.

(01:01:51):
SamAnd so that, that piece in particular, I was like, I felt good about, i was like, okay, this isn't going to come out.
Ari GrodeOkay.
SamAnd I like kind of committed myself to the route as well. was like, I'm going to do this thing. And you know, if I fall here, like it'll be okay. So yeah.
Ari GrodeGotcha. Man, that's sick.
RobertHow long, how long were you, like you said, your head pointed, obviously and dropping on the top rope. Like what was that process in terms of length? Like how long did that whole thing take?

(01:02:16):
SamMan, it probably took me, I think it took me multiple seasons. Like I think the first season I tried it and top roped it some and didn't like feel close like even really like considering a lead. um And then I think, sorry, I think a couple of years went by and that's like when I was like doing that road trip out West, living in a van climbing on all these areas like, you know, the Valley and J tree and getting used to some of that trad and, you know, doing like a little bit of like, you know, soloing and stuff and J tree. And, um, you know, that, I think that experience really put me in a good headspace and just spending that much time climbing. Like I felt just like really solid. And then coming back from that is when I really started projecting it and like set forth with the intention of just doing it.

(01:03:13):
SamAnd yeah, so it came back and then probably put, I don't know, maybe like six sessions into it and ended up leading it.
SamSo yeah, I think I did it on top rope clean once and then I was like ready.
Ari Grodeah
SamI think I like knew that I was ready for it.

(01:03:34):
RobertSuper cool.
Ari GrodeHow many ascents has that had?
SamYeah.
Ari Grodewas that Were you like the second or third? OK.
SamSo I got three ascents, I think, kind of in the same like couple weeks of it getting put up. Dave Sherritt, Pat Goodman, and Pat Goodman first, and then Dave Sherritt and Mike Stamm also repeated it.
Ari Grodeokay
Ari Grodeokay
Samum And man, if y'all are looking for a local legend that no one knows anything about, Mike Stamm is the dude you want to talk to. e

(01:04:01):
Ari GrodeOK.
SamMan, like, yeah. He is just a savant of whatever he wants to do, like whatever he wants to be good at, he's good at. And, you know, whether it be building tree houses or rock climbing or playing music, like he's, yeah, he's badass.
SamUm, yeah.
Ari GrodeSick.
SamAnd he put up, he's put up several other routes in the area that haven't been repeated and some highball stuff that hasn't been repeated. um, you know, like this V10 axiom that hasn't been repeated. It's like insanely highball and sketchy.

(01:04:34):
Samum And yeah, yeah. But anyways, yeah, those dudes were all kind of climbing all those routes at the same time, like Luna, um Jade Rabbit at Moon Rocks.
Roberti so
Ari GrodeRight.
Ari GrodeOkay. Yeah.
SamYeah, so they were all like climbing together, I think a lot and just, you know, putting up these gnarly headpoints.

(01:04:59):
Ari GrodeI mean, speaking of moon rocks, uh, Rob, I don't know if you had ah another question about that.
RobertThat's awesome. Go ahead.
RobertNo, no, go for it. Yeah, that's where I was headed.
Ari GrodeI was going to say, speaking of Moon Rocks, I mean, the the other thing that I wanted to ask about was, was it were you part of the party? i know you got the second ascent of that the what used to be the Corridor Project.
Ari GrodeWas it you and a buddy that that did that?

(01:05:19):
SamYeah.
Ari Grodeor um Okay.
SamYeah. So me and my buddy Daylon went out there. Daylon Gray, who is a crusher that probably not a of people know about, but he's super strong, really good boulder, really good route climber, just like can crimp so hard and doesn't even understand how strong he is.
Samum But yeah, so him and I went out there. when was this? This was like probably four years ago. three, four years ago.

(01:05:50):
SamAnd, uh, you know, the project, it was like longstanding project. Pat made a video about it. Um, you know, yeah, the video is really good.
Ari GrodeYeah. There's like a, I can link that video. There's a hidden video of Pat doing that.
SamI mean, it goes through all the, it gives you all the beta on the route.
Ari GrodeYeah. Yeah.
SamAnd so we had that to go off of.
Ari GrodeAnd you know, it must be hard because there's bolts in it and Pat's working it.
SamYeah, exactly.
Ari GrodeSo
SamYeah. Yeah. You actually put bolts in that one. That would be, yeah.

(01:06:13):
Ari Grodeyeah.
SamBut, uh, yeah. it's So it's a mixed line. Um, think three volts and then the rest is gear. um But yeah, so we knew about the route ahead of time from that video and from talking with Pat about it. And it was one those things it's like he was like, it was such a important and like meaningful project to him.

(01:06:36):
Samlike it was hard like to really want to do it. Cause I was like, man, i like want Pat to do this thing. um But he was kind of point at a point in his career he was like kind of like backing off a little bit.
SamAnd um yeah I talked to him about it, and he was like, dude, you should go do that thing. So um we went out and tried it.
Ari Grodeyou

(01:06:56):
SamAnd yeah, I mean, and a we probably put in that first season, i think I put like six sessions, five or six sessions into it.
Samand Got super close. Daylon and I were both trying it. we were both getting really close. And then Daylon ended up doing it, which was sick.

(01:07:18):
Samum And yeah, I came back the next year and I think like maybe like second session on it, ended up doing it. um And yeah, man, it's a really awesome route. Like in this corridor, you can see it's like a mirrored image image on the other side of the corridor of the route itself uh so it's just like it's just cool like you can see like how the rock broke apart you know there's like obvious features that like translate from side to side um the yeah that aspect of it's really cool and then um yeah it's just hard man it's like classic 221 bouldering on a rope um yeah

(01:07:46):
Ari GrodeOkay, yeah.
Ari Grodeis Is that thing, i mean, it gets, you guys gave it 14A, so it's obviously pretty nails, but is it is it like dangerous at all? Because you're, I mean, you're in a corridor, so is there is there like potential to hit the other wall or is it, is it i've I've been in that corridor, but it's hard to imagine what a fall actually would would be like.

(01:08:12):
Samoh
SamSo on the lower part of the route, it's definitely safe.
Ari GrodeOkay. Okay.
SamYou know, there's like one piece of gear, like maybe 10 feet up or something. And it's like, it's pretty moderate getting to the first bolt, maybe like 11, 511 or something to the first bolt.
SamAnd there really turns on. um And then after that the crux, which is at the third bolt, you kind of do this like traversing bit where you like grab an undercling and step on this like sloping ledge and go right.

(01:08:47):
SamAnd I think if you fell there, you could maybe hit the slab. um That's kind of the only spot that you could hit the slab.
Ari Grodeyeah Okay, okay.
Samum
Ari GrodeGotcha.
SamYeah. Or like placing that next piece even, but it's like, it backs way off there. It's like post-crux and you're kind of like, if you make it there, you're probably not going to fall.
Ari GrodeYeah.

(01:09:07):
SamYeah.
Ari GrodeCool.
SamIt's a little little, little sketchy, not very sketchy though.
Ari GrodeYeah, i remember seeing...
Ari GrodeI remember seeing that video of Pat. That's a pretty well done video. They get like close-ups of all those holds, and they just look fucking atrocious.
SamOh yeah.
Ari GrodeYeah.
SamOh yeah, dude.
Ari Grodeah
Samlike What does he call it? Like the quarter hole? It's like the negative of a quarter. And yeah, that hole's nasty.
RobertOh my gosh.

(01:09:29):
SamYeah.
Ari GrodeOh, that's cool. Yeah. I don't know if that thing's getting any more love since you guys did it, but it'd be cool.
Samyeah I think some folks have tried it.
Ari Grodeand Okay, cool.
SamYeah. Yeah, some folks have tried it. um I don't know how much or like it really people have gotten like super stoked on it. But yeah, I know it's been tried some.

(01:09:50):
Ari GrodeNice.
RobertSuper cool.
Ari GrodeUm,
RobertI know you also mentioned that another one that you kind of contributed was but pyramid scheme. You want to walk us through that one as well?
SamOh, yeah.
RobertWhat was what was that whole process like?
SamOh man, so that thing, ah God, it was just like sitting right next to like some of the most classic boulders on 221 that people climb that all the time. Like it's right below Mic Space, which is like this classic well-known V8.

(01:10:18):
Samum And yeah, it's just like right there, kind of in the main zone. And I walked down there one time and looked it, I was like, this is sick and needs to get done. And it's, don't know y'all have bouldered on like the iceberg boulder,
Samand
RobertNo, I haven't.
Samthe classic like V5, like it's like, so it's right below ship rock actually.
Ari GrodeThe only.
SamYeah.

(01:10:38):
RobertOkay.
Ari Grodeokay
Samyeah So you can like hike from ship rock to it. It's like directly down the hill. So it's that same sort of stone. It's like really hard, um really hard rock with like the like quartz features in it.
SamSo it's just like a really pretty face with um kind of like a perfect set of holds and Yeah, man, just like saw it and was like, this needs to get done and asked around. And I talked to Mike Stam about it. And he was like, oh, yeah, that thing. you know like I think we tried it, but it's never been done.

(01:11:12):
Samand um
Ari GrodeIs that a boulder or a root?
Samit's a boulder problem. Yeah, so it's a boulder problem. And it's just like, um don't know, it's just cool to do that. classic, like right in the main area, 221. Kind of surprising that it hadn't been done before.
SamAnd so, yeah, it was just like a fun one to go out and open up for people.
RobertNice.
SamAnd now it's, you know.

(01:11:35):
Ari GrodeIs there any like footage or anything of that that we could share?
SamYeah, there's one. There's definitely footage of people climbing it. I think I got one on my Instagram, me doing First Ascent.
Ari Grodeah Okay, okay. That was sick.
SamYeah. And but yeah, it's been done quite a few times now. um And just like.
Ari GrodeOkay, I just pulled it up.
SamYeah.
Ari GrodeYeah, that's a beautiful face.

(01:11:55):
SamYeah.
Ari GrodeHoly shit.
SamYeah, it's beautiful, man. It's like the way it's set up with like those slashes and quartz. It's just like really cool.
Ari GrodeIt looks like tiger stripes almost.
SamYeah.
Ari GrodeOh, sick. Speaking of hard bouldering, like you you recently did one of the, was it third or fourth ascent of Bonesaw?

(01:12:16):
SamYeah, man. did Bonesaw recently. i don't know how many a sense it's gotten. um
Ari Grodethat was ah That's a Taylor McNeil boulder, right?
SamHonestly. Yep.
Ari Grodeand In Linville.
SamTaylor and Neil Boulder. Yeah, man. yeah
Ari Grodeis that Is that still the hardest boulder in NC?
SamNo, no. So there's there's several now that are harder.
Ari GrodeOkay, okay.
Samum Yeah.
Ari GrodeOh, really? I didn't realize that. Okay. but

(01:12:36):
SamYeah, man. Taylor's been putting up some hard stuff. Also Elijah Kaiser, um dude who's from Boone, he's put up some hard stuff too. He recently did this like B15 the Monster Boulder. forget what he called it, but it is, i mean, it's sick and really hard looking.

(01:12:56):
SamUm, so he did that. Taylor did a V15 as well. Apparatus. Uh, it's like, um, it's like really unique, uh, like wave feature that, I mean, it's pretty stunning.
SamUm, it's just like kind of just one singular feature of slopers and pinches. Um, so yeah, there, there's several hard lines and I think even in,

(01:13:26):
SamSome stuff around Moore's Wall got put up recently. That's like v fifteen um Yeah, there's, yeah, man, the past few years have been quite a few hard lines going up, which, i mean, yeah.
Ari GrodeOh, really? Okay.
Ari GrodeOh, that's good but's cool to see. I mean, yeah. NC's stacked with good, especially the boon area. Holy shit.
SamOh, yeah.
Ari GrodeI i followed a... um I think it's Matt Nunes on Instagram.

(01:13:47):
SamOh, yeah, he crushes.
Ari GrodeAnd just like over and like, i was like, where are all these problems that I've never heard of that are just like, you know, V13, V11, just like, there's many out of that.
SamYeah.
SamYeah.
Ari GrodeYeah. Yeah. there's so many out of that
SamSo many. Yeah.
Ari Grodeand that
Samdon't know how many V14s there are now in Boone, but probably at least like 10 in that range.
Ari Grodeyeah

(01:14:07):
SamSo yeah, there's some strong dudes, man.
RobertI
SamI feel like per capita Boone has like a really like solid climber base. People climbing like upper grades.
Roberti mean, it makes sense with the concentration, you know, like you said, even, even some of the rope routes just feel like longer extensions of the boulder.
SamYeah. Yeah.
RobertAnd so it's like, that kind of makes sense.
SamYeah,
Robertlike, this is the style lock in, you know?

(01:14:30):
Samyeah yeah, yeah, totally.
Ari GrodeAnd such an it's such an underground scene, too.
SamYeah.
Ari Grodelike it's cool It's been really fun to explore this.
SamYeah.
Ari Grodebecause it's i mean i Rob and I lived in North Carolina for ah years. and and it's just like
SamOkay.
Ari Grodei mean Obviously, we' we'd climb out at 221.
Samknow
Ari Grodei didn't do much bouldering out there, mainly Ship Rock, all the crags on 221 and stuff, Linville. Yeah. Yeah.

(01:14:55):
RobertSunken treasure special spot in my heart.
Ari Grodethere' yeah yeah
SamSunken Treasury, yeah, that's a great one, man.
RobertYeah.
Ari GrodeYeah.
SamYeah.
Ari GrodeBut like, it's cool to explore that area. Cause there's really not a lot of, I mean, there's so many hard climbs out there and I feel like it, it doesn't get talked about as much, uh, or at least a scene is the scene is very like underground.
SamIt doesn't, man. Yeah, it It is.
Ari GrodeLike, you know, if you're in the know, if you, if you know the people like, uh, so yeah.

(01:15:18):
SamYeah, yeah. Yeah, if you know, you know, or you got to talk to somebody about it. There's not a lot of information out there.
RobertRight.
SamBut yeah, there is, there's a lot of hard stuff and, uh, you know, the seasons are, can be interesting and tricky sometimes too, you know, to, to really get the weather window you need in order to do something.
Samum but that being said, I mean, there's kind of like this area almost has four season climbing, you know, like the winter time's good spring and fall are awesome summertime. Occasionally like it's ship rock, you'll get days where you need a jacket.

(01:15:50):
SamSo it's, uh, Yeah, it's it's pretty awesome in that regard for sure. But yeah, you know, you can also go through like a month straight of rain. So yeah, it can be tough.
Ari GrodeYeah.
RobertYeah, for sure.
Samum Yeah.
RobertYeah. You mentioned, um, i mean, I think that might be an interesting, like you mentioned, obviously you had that, that stint where you were living in the van going West and like checking all these other places for you on that.

(01:16:15):
Samhmm.
RobertLike, it it seems like it wasn't enough of an appeal to like keep you away from Boone, but what were some of the spots where, when you went away that they stood out and then ah ultimately like, why'd you end up choosing to go back to Boone and posting up there?
Samum Man, yeah there's god yeah, there's so much climbing out west and so much good climbing, you know, like the valley, mean, all time, like world-class, big wall stuff there. ah And, I mean, the cragging, the bouldering, ah you know, going up to Wollumine and climbing, know, multi-pitch there were bouldering up there.

(01:16:56):
SamThere's just like – so much in that California region that, uh, is just, I mean, it's so good, you know, Tahoe as well, where you can go out and find new boulders every day if you wanted.
Samum and the rock quality is really good. um and I mean, yeah, it's just like, yeah, I mean, I don't know. There's so much out there that's, it's like really good and fun. And, uh, I don't know, man, I don't honestly, like,

(01:17:27):
SamI think there's a few things that but drew me back here. ah i mean, one being like the homies I have here, know, I have a bunch of good buddies and, you know, it's just like nice seeing them and hanging out and, um and also the climbing, you know, like the rock here to me is like some of the best and most interesting that I've climbed on and diverse as well.
RobertYeah.

(01:17:54):
Samah Like within this area, you just like the small radius of the high country of North Carolina, there's a lot of different styles of climbing.
RobertFor sure.
SamUm, and i don't know, it's just interesting. And it always feels like you're going on a little adventure to you know, if you're going out like hunting for vulvas or going to a new zone, it's just like these little like micro adventures you go on every day.

(01:18:24):
Samso ah Yeah, man. I don't know. There's like, and something just like special about the area, you know, like I love being out West and I love traveling out there and and visiting.
SamUm, but something about like the greenness and like how ah alive these mountains feel is like special to me. Um, and yeah, I don't know. I just like, don't know. I just really like it here.

(01:18:49):
SamAnd, um, yeah, throughout the seasons, you know, like now I, uh, The past, like, three or four years, I've been taking, like, six months off of climbing and riding my mountain bike in the summer.
SamAnd, you know, that's a fun thing, too. You know, it's, like, the mountain biking here is, like, kind of world class as well. Like, really, really good riding.

(01:19:14):
SamAnd, yeah, so there's just a lot here, a lot to do. The summer times are awesome, like, going to the river, hanging out.
SamAnd, yeah, I don't know. It's like, I feel like I can almost live anywhere and enjoy it, but something about this area is like, just kept bringing me back.

(01:19:36):
RobertI don't know, man. that That feels like a really good spot to wrap up. I mean, I... With having lived in North Carolina, I can certainly relate to that. Like it is like a very, uh, there's something special about those mountains that often gets overlooked.
RobertSo I think you kind of hit the nail on the head there.
SamYeah. Yeah.
Ari GrodeHell yeah. Yeah, man. This has been super fun to dive into.
SamYeah, man.

(01:19:57):
RobertYeah, this is great.
Ari Grodethe The rhododendrons, dive deep into the rotos of ah the high country area because, man, there's there's so much ah there's so much good stuff hidden in there, both from a history standpoint and ah and a you know quality root standpoint.
RobertYeah.
Samif
RobertYeah.
SamLove him and hate him, dude, for sure.
RobertYeah.
Samyou know, God.
Ari GrodeSo, yeah, I appreciate you taking everybody through this.
SamCool, man.
SamYeah, absolutely. Yeah. Stoked you guys wanted to chat. and Yeah. It's good getting to talk to y'all.

(01:20:22):
RobertYeah, man, that was great.
Ari GrodeYeah. and anything Anything else you want to shout out, I guess, at the end here?
SamOh, God. i don't know, man. i mean, ah feel like a little bit of an imposter being on the podcast, you know?
Ari GrodeI know we hit.
SamIt's just like, I feel like there's so many, like, more qualified individuals, but ah but I appreciate the shout, and yeah, good getting to talk.
Robertthat's That's crazy.
Ari GrodeNo way.
Ari GrodeNo way. Yeah.

(01:20:47):
Ari GrodeSick. Yeah.
RobertNo, think you've definitely earned a spot on this podcast to say the least.
Ari GrodeYeah.
RobertBut yeah, we're just glad you're up for it.
SamOh, man.
RobertI'll have to ah to thank Anna Lee for putting us in contact.
SamHeck, yeah.
RobertBut yeah, that was great.
SamOh yeah, Anna Lee, man. Yeah, haven't talked to her in a long time, but yeah, it's a cool connection.
Robertyeah
RobertYeah, yeah. I've been, I'm working on this climbing film with Rab. So like I was just chatting with her and it just came up that ah i lived in North Carolina.

(01:21:08):
SamOkay.
RobertShe's like, oh, was in Boone. was like, oh, that's cool. She's like, yeah, I used to climb my mom. oh And then like your name came up. i was like oh, we're like trying to get him on the pod. She's like, yeah, I'll ask around. like, great.
SamHeck yeah.
Robertah But yeah, she's she's super cool.
SamCool, man.
RobertShe's super cool. Yeah.
SamHell yeah.
RobertYeah.

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