April 14, 2025 • 45 mins
Creating a culture is the dream of any small business.
But how do you achieve it?
So many business owners are choosing to create communities these days, the consistent income has massive appeal. But it has to be more than a community to really change people’s lives. You need a culture.
My guest in this episode, Joe Glover, has created one of the loveliest cultures I know in The Marketing Meetup. With an emphasis on joy, kindness and inclusivity, it was founded to provide a supportive space for marketers, particularly introverts.
Joe shares what it takes to create culture and to grow a global community that that supports each other. We also explore the audacity required to pursue big opportunities, and the importance of finding purpose beyond business.
Joe leads with kindness and love and that shines through in everything he shares here.
“I get so much joy from seeing other people being joyful” – Joe
You’ll hear about:
- Creating a safe space for introverts in marketing and business.
- Kindness in business can lead to positive outcomes.
- Identifying values helps in networking.
- Community building is about culture, not just numbers.
- Nurturing relationships is key to community success.
Connect with Joe:
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/josepheglover/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/joseph_glover/?hl=en
The Marketing Meetup - https://themarketingmeetup.com/
Connect with me:
My website - https://leaturner.co.uk/
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/lea-turner/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/leaturnerholt
Find out about The HoLT:
The HoLT - https://www.the-holt.com/
The HoLT on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/theholt
The HoLT on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/theholtcommunity/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theholtcommunity
The Vault - https://www.the-holt.com/vault
Join The Holt waiting list - https://www.the-holt.com/waitlist
This podcast is sponsored by QDos. Use the code LEA10 at the checkout to get your discount when signing up - https://my.qdoscontractor.com/code/10255/115219
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Joe Glover (00:00):
I am aware that,
(00:00):
like, I'm living the dream
really, yeah, I'm surrounded by
people I love. I'm doing things
for people I love. We do these
things for our families, right?
Yeah, 100% we do it to show for
the people we love. And the
people we love can be, you know,
can be as small as our children,
our partners, or it can be a
wider community, you know. And
(00:21):
either way, you know, whether
you're looking to serve those
people or the wider community,
you know, sort of being able to
show up in that way to help
other people. And yeah, if
there's a give and take, cool,
yeah, so be it. That's life you
Lea Turner (00:46):
Mr. Joe Glover,
welcome to the HoLT Survival
Guide for Small Businesses. It's
so nice to finally meet you and
for you to have made the journey
all the way up to Manchester for
it. But before we get started,
could you just tell us a little
bit about who you are and what
you do? Of course,
Joe Glover (01:01):
I've got Bronson
here on my lap, so I'm having a
great time. They might just
fight. So that's that's a great
stuff. Oh, sorry, he's getting
old. So I'm Joe. I founded
something called the marketing
meetup nine years ago. Now, the
marketing Meetup is a community
for marketers. There's about
50,000 of us around the world.
(01:24):
We're on about 190 events this
year.
Unknown (01:27):
It's life now. But
Joe Glover (01:30):
the most important
thing about the market Meetup is
that it's a space where we've
coined this term to be
positively lovely, which is it's
a space where people could come
together, look after each other,
respect each other's humanity,
and sort of look to give rather
than look to get. It's a place
(01:54):
which hopefully folks feel safe.
And yeah, so we show up online
and in person, but very much in
the spirit of looking after
Lea Turner (02:01):
each other. And so
it's people who work in any area
of marketing across the world.
50,000 is a lot, isn't it?
That's incredible.
Joe Glover (02:09):
Yeah, it's wild.
It's, it's one of those, you
know. Like, I think, you know,
even when these things on a
community level, you know, I
think quite often it's, you
know, you look at the social
media stats, and it's like
250,000 but like, that's not
really what we mean by the
community. You know, the
community is those 50,000 folks
who are engaged in some way or
another, and, and, yeah, it's a
(02:30):
lot of people. It's, it's a
blessing. And
Lea Turner (02:33):
I think one of the
things I've always resonated
with since I first started
following you, and I think I'm
not how long ago, nine years
ago, you started the marketing
meetup, but I don't think it had
really gained the really gained
the massive traction when I
first came across you on
LinkedIn, and I always got this
vibe from the content that you
put out of like and I don't mean
this in an emasculating way, but
(02:54):
a gentleness about you and a
kindness and a calmness. And I
really loved that, because it's
so it's so different from maybe
the stereotype around marketing.
It's always quite, I've always
felt it's much more for like
extroverts, the creative
extroverts, the the the people
(03:17):
that are, I guess marketing,
it's all about attention
seeking, right? And so you kind
of have an assumption that it's
around these people that are
super comfortable in the
limelight, or, you know, the
centre of attention type of
people, but you're not like that
at all. And, and I really
resonated with your you're quite
(03:37):
you're quite open about being an
introvert. And I'm an introvert,
much to a lot of people's
surprise, but I've found myself
in a situation where I'm I need
to get attention to run my
business as an introvert. How
did you first come up with the
idea for the marketing meetup
and build it around yourself and
(03:58):
and make it so comfortable for
people that are introverted to
be in
Joe Glover (04:03):
I think it's one of
those things that you kind of,
you kind of pointed out, and you
answer there that there are
people who feel that way, right?
And so, I mean, the foundation
story of the marketing Meetup is
that I knew that I wanted to
meet other marketers and learn
about marketing, but whenever I
went to networking events in the
traditional sense, then I didn't
(04:24):
feel particularly comfortable.
And feel comfortable because I'd
walk in and folks would either
be stood in those circles or
like you'd say, you know, I
remember one occasion, I sort of
walked up to a group of people
and, like I said, Hi, I'm Joe,
and at the time, I was a
marketing manager in a small
agency, and I could literally
just sort of see them not be
interested in me because my job
(04:46):
title didn't match their
expectations. I didn't work for
this big brand. I worked for an
agency, and you know that sort
of traditional
Lea Turner (04:52):
when you and I used
to experience it. When I used to
socialise in the music industry,
people were always looking over
your shoulder to see if there's
someone more important. That you
speak to exactly that. So it
feels absolutely degrading and
embarrassing. You're like, Oh,
God, you never want to go back.
No,
Joe Glover (05:08):
it's just a, you
know, it's a lack of respect for
other people's humanity, right?
And and so the marketing Meetup
is really an exercise into
leaning into that, you know,
sort of acknowledging that those
things are real, and go, you
know, that's a bit weird that we
do that. You know, why don't we
do something that's nicer and
kinder, and look at the person
in front of us, and sort of that
(05:30):
person's going
Lea Turner (05:30):
to be in five years
time. Anyway, if you, if you, if
you burn a bridge by
disrespecting someone or
ignoring someone at that stage,
like, aside from just their
humanity and treating them like
a valuable person. You could be
shooting yourself massively in
the foot. Of course
Joe Glover (05:46):
you could. Of course
you could. I mean, you know,
nine years into this journey now
we've sort of been on the
journey with a lot of folks, you
know, yeah, they're now in that
sort of that impressive job
title, or whatever it may be.
But anything else, you know, you
got to know them. But you know,
I keep finding out what people's
jobs are these days, people who
are known for years, and you go,
Oh, wait, you actually do
(06:07):
something that's really cool,
yeah. But yeah, you know? I
mean, I think you know, to the
point you question when it comes
to that introversion, it's like,
well, let's not see this as a
weakness or as a counter. Just
sort of say, well, let's create
a space which feels comfortable
for those folks, yeah, and
acknowledge that I'm not the
only one. And, you know, I
didn't know I wasn't the only
(06:27):
one. I just put a group up on
meetup.com and 100 people signed
up with the values that we sort
of it
Lea Turner (06:32):
started out from
there, yeah, yeah. So 50,000
people in under 10 years. Do you
ever just think back when I go,
God, that's wild.
Joe Glover (06:42):
Like, I think of it
as a wild journey to a certain
extent, but, but you and I were
speaking about this before,
yeah, and there was kind of this
sense that, like, I don't think
either of us would reflect on
anything that we've necessarily
done and go, God, that's
impressive, or whatever, you
know. And I think both of us
have probably had people tell us
(07:04):
that it is, and so that's the
reason why. Hopefully that
hasn't come across this really
arrogant statement, but like,
it's only, it's only for other
people to say that. I think, you
know, and I don't really go just
Lea Turner (07:17):
feels kind of like
inevitable, you know, for us. I
suppose, as marketers, you see
an opportunity, you take it, you
leverage it, you go on to the
next opportunity. You take a
risk, you just follow it
through. You ride in the wave,
just going with the flow and
seeing what happens, and going,
Oh, this is cool. Let's try that
as well. Does that work? Let's
try that as well. And it's the
excitement and the thread of
(07:38):
that trying and succeeding, or
trying and failing and fixing it
and then trying again. That's
all super exciting. And then you
sort of get to this, this
pinnacle where people are going,
oh my god, wow. You're like,
Yeah, but like, loads of crap
happened along the way. This
wasn't, this wasn't all, like, I
didn't plan for all of this to
happen. It wasn't some grand
scheme. No, no, exactly, yeah.
So it doesn't really feel that
(07:58):
impressive, does it? When you're
there, you're just going, I just
sort of feel I stumbled across
it.
Joe Glover (08:04):
You try your best,
you know? And then you probably
got a set of values that drive
you along the way, right, that
sort of define those choices.
Lea Turner (08:13):
So you the
positively lovely people thing,
the little plus sign that you've
got in the logo, like all of
that resonates so much with me
that real human first
networking, not worrying about
what someone's job title is,
just like getting to know them
as a person. And that's
something I'm really, really hot
on with my community as well, is
we get to know each other
(08:34):
because we want to get to know
each other. We want to have fun
together, and the business
relationship kind of comes
second. And it's not like, What
can I get from you? It's, what
can I do for you? How can I help
you? And that works so
beautifully well, but kindness
can often be taken advantage of,
and sometimes marketing can be
ruthless, but business in
(08:54):
general is ruthless. I'd love to
know like, how do you think it's
been a real positive for you in
the business to have that real
focus on kindness, but also
maybe a time where you felt you
could have been taken advantage
of, or, you know, someone's
(09:15):
thrown up a red flag, and you've
gone, this isn't our kind of
person Like kindness can be. It
is the most amazing value to
have, yeah, but there are people
that will take advantage of it,
or, you know, manipulate you
because of that. Has there ever
been an instance
Joe Glover (09:33):
the thing, the thing
that I would probably say is,
it's not so much a specific
story. I'd say there are, of
course, folks who come along to,
you know, our events and stuff
like that, where they're not
necessarily in the spirit of
what we intended when they show
up for the first
Lea Turner (09:49):
time. What are your
red flags then that they how do
you know? So those folks will be
Joe Glover (09:53):
the folks who
immediately start handing out
business cards before they
started a conversation, you
know, or the folks who. You
know, are doing the sales pitch,
you know, I am X, you know, and
I am from y. And do you need? Do
you need Z, you know, before you
even started, you know,
whatever. And the thing about,
(10:15):
and this is why I was coming
back to this values thing, you
know, I think this is so
important for small business
owners and for people building
their businesses, which is like,
what are the things that you
stand for? And so this is the, I
think the best marketing thing
that we've done over the course
of time is not so much being
great at sort of like Tiktok or
anything like that, but it's
been about communicating our
values. And so this be
(10:36):
positively lovely thing. This
wasn't something that we had
from the beginning. This was
something that quite
organically, sort of surfaced
after six years, after six
months, and since that time,
we've communicated that
regularly, clearly through every
touch point that we have,
through the community. You know,
whether that's through the
online sign up, whether that's
the online forms, whether that's
(10:57):
at the beginning of the events,
yeah, and now hopefully, like,
people self select in or out.
And so it's one of those things
where, like, those people
probably have come they probably
have acted in a way which is
counter to what we expected,
yeah, but I bet they didn't come
back. If they did come back,
they came
Lea Turner (11:15):
back and did it
differently, yeah, exactly,
because they realised, oh, I can
drop the act here. I don't have
to be that version of myself,
Joe Glover (11:21):
exactly, you know,
and you know, for what it's
worth, you know, I have a
certain view on the world,
right? You know, I like to think
that generally, looking after
each other, good things come
around. But other people, you
know, live in that ruthless
environment. It's actually not
for me to judge and sort of say
that's the wrong way. Yeah, it's
just for me to say, You know
(11:41):
what? It's not for me. It's
Lea Turner (11:42):
not our way. Yeah,
exactly. Yeah. I mean, we've
we've got something similar with
the whole we we are freight. Our
tagline is where square pegs fit
perfectly, because we really
are. There's a lot of people in
there that are perfectly
ordinary in inverted commas, but
there's also a lot of people
that feel like misfits in the
business world. And similar to
the marketing meetup people,
it's people that don't really
(12:03):
like that, that formal
networking environment they want
to laugh and joke and have fun
and mess about a little bit and
not be judged for not knowing
something and asking what they
might think is a stupid
question, but it's not a stupid
question, like we all had those
at the beginning, but
organically, the phrase no knobs
allowed has become one of our
(12:26):
taglines that people really
remember. And it's, I mean, it's
the same kind of thing. Be
positively lovely. We've just
gone for the negative as no
knobs. And if you sort of think
I might probably a bit I'm like,
a hard sales pitchy person,
yeah, and we don't really get
those kinds of people in. No, it
is. It's about communicating
(12:46):
your values, not really our kind
of person, assuming they have
the self awareness to realise
they are a bit of a nom. Well,
Joe Glover (12:54):
you know. But I
think I love everything you said
there, because like that so
speaks to like I think people
will often think about community
building as an exercise in
community building, I I need to
get more people coming along to
my thing, a larger social
following, or whatever it is.
The thing that I think we do as
our jobs is not build community.
We be we build culture. Yeah, a
(13:14):
community, by its very nature,
is one that is owned by the
community, where the community
drive it, where the community
shape it the community. Take it
where they'd like to. Thing that
we need to do, you and I, is the
culture bit, and
Lea Turner (13:27):
that's so focused,
isn't it? Because I see a lot of
people talking about community.
It's a huge thing, especially
this year. Everybody wants to
get into the subscription model.
Everyone wants that recurring
income. Everyone wants
community. But so many people
mistake a community and a
membership, and maybe you agree,
maybe you've got your own
thoughts on it, but for me, a
membership is like the leader
(13:48):
has a relationship with lots of
clients, but do the people in it
have a relationship with one
another? Absolutely with the
marketing meetup, it's
absolutely evident. Because you
were saying there are people
that don't even get your name
right. They have no idea that
you are the founder, which is
amazing to me. I'm like, I love
that you can fly under the radar
like that and that one day, I
would love to have the hope be
(14:08):
like that. It's community led
with an amazing team. But no one
really knows who owns it,
because it's owned by the
people. But I have a
relationship with all of the
customers, or certainly as many
as I can. I mean, it's getting
very difficult to manage that,
but they have relationships with
each other, and they really
build on those, and they nurture
those together. And I'm
(14:29):
technically still like the
leader, but I'm it's not about
their relationship with me. It's
about nurturing those, those
like intertwined relationships
with each other. And that's the
difference between a community
for me, and I don't see that
with that many of these
communities that are popping up.
No,
Joe Glover (14:47):
but you know, I
think this also relates to your
first question about the
introversion and marketers and
stuff like that, which is that,
you know, the reason why,
hopefully, you know, I can
survive in the marketing.
Environment, we can survive in a
marketing environment. We can be
community folks. Is because the
whole point of marketing is that
(15:08):
you're doing something for the
customer, right? Service,
exactly. And in the same sense,
you know, I wouldn't use the
word customer for folks in the
marketing meetup community, you
know, you know, you'd say
community members. But like,
it's the same skill set in a
way, which is that, you know,
customer orientation, community
member orientation, you know,
which is like, this is about
you, you know, if we provide
(15:29):
something for you, yes, of
course, there is a material
benefit in terms of a financial
exchange, which, by the way, I
think a lot of people can get
quite nervous about, especially
when they're starting a small
business. I know that I did,
yeah, I was terrified of money.
You know, is that's okay if
you're providing value for folks
as well. But fundamentally, you
(15:49):
know, it's such a it's such a
strength if you care about other
people you want to help, whether
that's as a small business
owner, like really, really
caring about your customer base,
or as a community leader,
really, really caring and just
being there for your folks that
you want to
Lea Turner (16:01):
help. I think, like
I've noticed on LinkedIn that
there's definitely sort of a
division with people, where
you've got these kind of
ruthless business people, where
it's make money at any cost,
hustle bros, everything's about
how much cash you're making at
the end of the month. And then
there's a very service based
people that are really focused
on customer experience and
(16:21):
building relationships. I've
never really identified with
that whole get rich at any cost,
work yourself into the ground.
Everything's done to impress
others. I'm probably hyping
myself up a little bit too much,
and this isn't really but there
is that sort of idea about
LinkedIn, and that's the sum of
the people on there. Everyone's
(16:43):
in this massive circle jerk
excuse the phrase, but it's
definitely perceived like that.
Sometimes I've definitely been
on the other not saying I don't
see those people, but I've
definitely been on the other
side where it's so much about
helping one another. And I was
inspired to double down on that
and create something even more
like, private, safe, but with
(17:03):
that same kind of energy. How
did you first grow it so you had
this 100 people in the
meetup.com, where did it go?
From there to continue like,
what were you using? Facebook,
Instagram, LinkedIn, primarily,
where are you finding these
people? So,
Joe Glover (17:23):
primarily in the
first few years. So this is like
2016 or something like that. It
was through meetup.com and so we
would spring out a new
meetup.com page in each of our
respective locations. So this at
the time I was working as a
marketing manager in an agency,
the same agency I spoke about
(17:43):
earlier. And, you know, two
things happened. The first was
that people came to the
Cambridge event, which was the
first one, and then they'd come
up to me and sort of say, I've
enjoyed this. Can I run one in
Bedford, you know, sort of, I've
travelled, which was wicked, you
know. The other thing that
happened was that people said to
(18:04):
me, you know, we'd love this in
London, or we'd love this in
Norwich, or we'd love it in
Newcastle. I don't know why
Newcastle came so early, because
it was very, very far away, and
I would be running it myself,
and so in the evenings or
weekends or whatever, I'd be
travelling to these places to
run these events myself and so.
But each time it was using
meetup.com as it was, I mean,
(18:26):
and this is another, I guess,
another reflection from the
very, very early days that
became a real problem, because
the audience kind of got stuck
in meetup.com we didn't, we
didn't have the data for folks
when, when COVID happened. And
so right there was a wild
moment, you know, where, I
think, in around the time of
(18:47):
COVID, we had maybe 130 events
planned, or something like that.
I'd gone full time in april
2019, so it's sort of eight,
nine months into into full time
stuff. Yeah, as a on a
commercial level as a quote,
unquote events business. And
yeah, of course, the event
stopped. And so the saving grace
(19:08):
for us was that we had an email
newsletter list of like, 2300
people or something like that.
And so we're able to go out to
folks at that point and sort of
start the webinar programme. And
Lea Turner (19:19):
that's, I think, the
first time we got to know each
other, right? Because I did one
of your webinars, was it during
Joe Glover (19:25):
COVID Around that
time? It must have been, because
you've done a couple for us and
say, yeah, it must have been
sort of towards the tail end of
that sort of COVID period of
time, which was the real sort of
boost, you know, sort of lift
off period first
Lea Turner (19:38):
really started
getting seen on social media,
yeah, as well, yeah, yeah, it's
wild. And it proper, like
exploded after that, didn't it?
Yeah, it did,
Joe Glover (19:48):
you know. I mean,
again, you know, I guess if you
look at it purely from the
numbers perspective, then yeah,
you probably see it on the
graph, and you go, yeah, it
really went wild,
Lea Turner (19:58):
especially if people
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is that COVID year, we were very
(20:39):
much like we're all at home. We
can't go out anywhere. We're all
on, like, clubhouse and things
like that, trying to get adult
conversation, especially when
we've got small children, it's
like, I just want an adult
conversation. And then we've
kind of embraced this kind of
home working thing for the last
few years, but I've really felt
(20:59):
people are craving to get back
face to face, especially last
year, it's it feels like things
are moving much more towards
going back into the office,
seeing people face to face,
going to in person events, which
I'm excited about because I do
as much like I'm an introvert. I
do thrive off comfortable social
interactions with people that I
(21:20):
know, and being being face to
face with people, because I
spend too much time on my own.
But where do you see it going
from here, like in because you
still do stuff online as well,
don't you? Yeah, absolutely, and
you're doing things in person.
And how many countries
Joe Glover (21:36):
are you in now, I
don't know how many countries
we're on five continents.
Lea Turner (21:42):
I mean, there's only
six,
Unknown (21:44):
six or seven
Lea Turner (21:46):
that's pretty damn
in nine years. It's unbelievable
that you're having such a big
impact. What do you what's your
like, day to day involvement
with it now? Like, how much, how
much time are you putting into
it?
Joe Glover (22:00):
Well, I'm full time.
It's a funny thing. So even in
the past few weeks, I've been
reflecting on this, you know. So
part of this conversation was
this sort of sense of, like, it
would be great to get to the
point where, you know, the Homer
Simpson meme, you know, it kind
of just backs into the bush,
disappears, yeah, that's huge.
I'd love to do that, you know,
(22:21):
and so I'd love to get to that
point, like on the very
operational level, so the
running of the events, that kind
of thing, I'm almost not
involved at all. So l, who's our
head of events, who is the
world's nicest person? She is
anything less. She is sunshine.
(22:41):
She is sunshine itself. Just she
was our first hire. And like, I
can be more proud of her as a
human being and to associate
myself with her, there's
definitely a subject there. So,
like, she handles so much when
it comes to the in person
events. Yeah, I do a lot of the
webinar stuff in terms of the
curation, hosting them, that
(23:03):
kind of thing. But I'd love to
get to a place we just hired our
fourth person so forth, full
time.
Lea Turner (23:10):
I can't believe that
you've got such a lean team and
you run, it's wild, isn't it?
Yeah, that's that's impressive.
Well, there's
Joe Glover (23:16):
full credit to the
organisers as well. So we have
local organisers running the
events close to them as well.
There's about 100 of them around
the world. So it depends who
we're trying to impress. You
know, we've either got a team of
four or 104 so it depends what
you want to what you want to
say, but we're being
Unknown (23:31):
real here. Yeah,
exactly.
Joe Glover (23:35):
But, you know, so
there are so many people
involved, and you know, like we
said earlier, some of them don't
know my name, but I sort of see
that in a really positive light,
because I'm like, this thing
isn't about me, you know, and I
want to be there to support
them, but equally, you know,
like, if they know the values
and they know the spirit in
which things are set up, and
there we go. So for me, it's now
(23:56):
a moment of discovery, which is
like, what do I do here? You
know? And so this year is about
taking some really big shots,
you know, and sort of going
like, who are the speakers that
we have no right to get on that
Lea Turner (24:10):
stage? Your big
dominoes? Yeah, as, I don't know
if you know Andrew and Pete,
that's what they describe them
as big dominoes. They did a talk
at atomicon last year where
they're saying, like, be
audacious, right? Yeah, when
you're when you first start out,
work out what your big Domino
is. Yours, there's absolutely no
way I would have any chance
whatsoever of being able to do
(24:32):
this. Yeah. And theirs was
social media. I think they said
social media world. They wanted
to speak on stage, yeah. So they
had to find out what all the
steps were that they would need
to take to get that and they
literally doubled down to make
sure they did that. I love that
so much, and I think, like, I've
had a few people who it clearly
resonated with them, and maybe
they've done newsletters or
(24:52):
content about it, but they've
come to me and said things like,
I'd love to get you on my
podcast. You're my big Domino.
And the minute they say. That
I'm like, and don't, hopefully
everyone's not gonna be
messaging me this big Domino,
but I'm like, oh my god, imagine
being someone's big, dumb. What
are your big dominoes?
Joe Glover (25:10):
I don't want to give
them away, in case I'm massively
but
Lea Turner (25:13):
you might speak into
existence. Yeah,
Joe Glover (25:15):
honestly, well, I
think the thing for me is that I
have an awareness that there are
certain folks that we get along.
I would love to get more folks
from outside the marketing
industry coming to speak to the
marketing meetup, folks who have
interesting life experience.
I've got a list of 50, you know,
so like and but I think there's
probably something here, which
is like, I love how Andrew and
(25:37):
Peter now you've you sort of
relayed that message, because it
makes so much sense. I think
it's one of the themes of this
conversation in general, which
is just not being afraid to try,
you know. And so I am a quieter
person, but blooming Hall. I
think I'm a thoughtful person
too. So if I can put together
the most thoughtful approach
that I possibly could to Barack
(25:58):
Obama or whatever, you know,
Lea Turner (26:02):
I won't put anything
past you with what you've
achieved. Well, then, because
you do it with such kindness,
Joe Glover (26:07):
there's, there's,
there's a funny thing. So we've
got, we've got a board, and
we've got a chairperson, and our
chairperson sort of laughs at me
sometimes, and he says, You're
such a contradiction in the
sense that you can be massively
unconfident about some things
and then massively confident
about others. And so in a sense,
I kind of believe, I kind of
kind of don't maybe Rebecca
(26:28):
Brown was like the crazy
universe sort of thing. But, you
know, you never know Steven
Bartlett, but, you know, it's
like, who knows, you know, who
knows you could but there's
other things which I'm just,
like, terrified of, you know,
and so finance always used to be
something and like, there's a
nickiness around, sort of, like,
particularly with community, you
(26:50):
know, the sense that, hey, you
know, you can be making money
from building a community and
sort of speaking about kindness,
but also have capitalism and
commercialism as part of this.
That was a me thing. Because
actually, what you realise is
that so many people are like,
rooting for you, yeah, and
they're just like, you know, of
course, you know, you know,
getting paid if you're able to
(27:11):
choose your family, it's a
Lea Turner (27:13):
weird, uncomfortable
thing, because you feel like
you're kind of doing the right
thing. Do you support any one of
the things I find helps me to
feel more comfortable about that
is where I'm giving back. So
like charity work and sort of
things that we do that go above
and beyond, which I'm sure you
do in the marketing meet up, is
the above and beyond stuff. So
although they're paying for the
(27:35):
whole it, they're 65 pound a
month, right? But what we give
them for that 65 pounds a month
is enormous. And that's me.
That's my inner poor person with
a terrible money mindset that
goes I have to massively,
massively, really, over deliver
to make it worth that money. And
for me to feel good about
charging it 65 pounds a big deal
(27:56):
for a lot of people, right?
Yeah, and for the people that we
want to attract, often. They're
very much at the beginning of
their business, and some of them
are very far along, and they're
there for the community and
sport. But I'm like 65 pounds. I
remember when I was absolutely
skin, barely making ends meet. I
needed what the whole would have
(28:17):
given me back then, absolutely.
And it did feel like a lot of
money, absolutely,
Joe Glover (28:21):
but, and you're
right. I mean, that thing about
what the whole will give you,
yeah, it's a wider lesson, which
is, like so often, you don't do
these things alone, right? And
if it wasn't for my chairperson,
if it wasn't for my co founder,
if it wasn't for L if it wasn't
for the organisers, if it
weren't for the community, it
wouldn't mean what it is, yeah,
Lea Turner (28:39):
and they don't work
for free because to give, and
that's the thing, isn't it? You
they need to earn from it. You
need to earn from it because you
can't make it as good as it can
be if there's no finances
involved. Therefore people will
understand. But it's such a
weird place to be like the
asking for money to give them
something. If we could give it
to people for free, we
(28:59):
absolutely would. Maybe that's
the goal. Maybe,
Joe Glover (29:02):
you know, I love the
idea of the community, one pay
only in the community, you know,
like having the shareholding
sort of stuff, you know, be
incredible, yeah, yeah.
Lea Turner (29:10):
Or just some, like
marketing giant that just says,
Hey, here's loads of money. Do
what you want with it. I'd love
that. If anyone wants to give me
millions, absolutely great. So
where do you see it going, like
it's obviously, I'm going to
assume, yeah, far bigger than
you ever expected, or you could
have ever imagined that it would
(29:32):
go right. How big do you feel
like it could go and how long
like do you see yourself being
involved with it? Like, is this
something you're going to grow
to 20, 20 million? Like, yeah,
are you still going to be doing
it in your 50s? Like,
Joe Glover (29:53):
you know, I mean, I
don't know whether I've spoken
about this publicly,
necessarily. I don't want to be
doing it my 50s, necessarily.
Hmm, not because I don't find it
enjoyable, but life is so rich,
right? You know? And there is so
much to be done. I think there's
a there's a weird paradox even
in that, because even as I say
those words, I am aware that,
(30:15):
like, I'm living the dream,
really, yeah, I'm surrounded by
people I love. I'm doing things
for people I love, you know, I
Lea Turner (30:23):
beautiful family,
yeah, work that gives you
purpose and fulfilment, yeah,
you
Joe Glover (30:28):
know. And so I'll do
it for as long as it makes
sense, as long as I'm helpful,
you know, as long as I'm helpful
to folks, then I'll carry on.
You know. TMM, didn't always
exist, and it doesn't always
have to exist, you know, I'd
like to think that people want
it to exist. He's someone that
wants to step in and take over
maybe, maybe one day, so, you
know, we'll figure it out. But,
like, I haven't got any concrete
(30:48):
plans and in terms of how big it
goes, then I've not spent a lot
of time sort of thinking about a
grand vision. What I have a
sense of is there are marketers
out there who are competent but
not necessarily confident. There
are people who are amazing, but
(31:09):
they're alone. You know, there
are, there are people at the
beginning of their journey with
so much, you know, enthusiasm,
intelligence, but just nowhere
to go, to go and get it, or a
specific direction. And for the
most part, I think we're doing a
fairly good job of helping them.
And so I think if we continue to
(31:29):
do that, you know, even on
Tuesday, you know, you sort of
see a LinkedIn post coming up
after a webinar where someone
said, I didn't know a webinar
could do this, but it's
literally changed my life. And
it's like, freaking egg, you
know, it's
Lea Turner (31:42):
kind of the thing
that gives you the most perfect
set. Because I know, for me,
when I see someone, someone sent
me a video testimonial
yesterday. She's only just
joined the membership. Yeah, and
she sent me it was just like a
one minute testimonial about her
experiences joining. And my
heart literally jumped in. Like,
oh my god. This feels so good to
know something that I've, I've
(32:03):
created, even though I feel
uncomfortable saying that I've
created the thing, I've given
them, the conduit, they've
they've run with it. The people
are what makes the community so
great, yeah, but when I have
those moments, that's the bit
that makes me very happiest.
It's not the money coming into
the bank. It's none of that.
It's it's the impact, and
hearing about it, of course, and
(32:23):
I get the feet, yeah, that's the
same for you. Yeah,
Joe Glover (32:26):
it is. I mean, the
discomfort, and I don't say this
as a good trait or an enviable
trait, is that I don't really
recognise it or register it in
some ways. You know, I recognise
how incredible it is, but I
don't own it. And go, I did that
exactly
Lea Turner (32:41):
right? You look at I
look at it, and I go, I'm so I'm
so proud of the other members
for making her experience great.
I'm so, so proud that she's come
in and actually embraced getting
to know people and had a good
experience, and tried the master
classes and done this and done
that. I'm like, I feel proud of
them, not not me, because you
just start something, yeah, and
(33:02):
they've run with it, of course,
and you're just going, Okay,
well, I just need to keep up
with it and make sure
everything's running smoothly
and let them get on with it.
Kind of thing. It's it's an
interesting one. It really is.
How do you think, like, imagine
if you hadn't started the
marketing meetup, yeah, where do
you think you'd be? Now, if that
hadn't happened,
Joe Glover (33:23):
I'd like to think
I'd be a professional footballer
playing for my I don't know,
like you were
Lea Turner (33:30):
very young when you
started that. I mean, you're
still very young now. Thank you.
Thank you. I have to say that
because I'm older than you,
honestly, it's
Joe Glover (33:39):
really but I look 53
sometimes.
Lea Turner (33:42):
So, but 33 so 24 you
I mean, that's a that's a lot at
24 and and for 33 to have
achieved so much, you could be
retired by 40
Joe Glover (33:53):
maybe That'd be
nice. I mean, it's funny, isn't
it? Because I think even even in
that, you know, some people
would probably listen to that
thing and go, ah, you know,
either he is young or whatever.
But I couldn't start the
marketing me up again today. You
know, I've got two kids now, you
know, so that that sort of
heading to Newcastle on a random
(34:14):
evening, or heading to Norwich
on a random evening, or even
going to London, you know, and
even those events not being
packed out or whatever. You
know, it's not been as
successful all the time. I
remember standing outside the
London event because there were
three events to start off with.
We had 80 people signed up and
15 people turned up. And the
demoralising, yeah. And you know
that as an experience, you know,
(34:36):
had I been in 33 year old Joe's
shoes, you might have gone stuff
it, you know, I've given up the
kids bedtime for this, or
whatever, you know, yeah, and
so, you know, it is one of those
right time, right place things
as well. But, yeah, I forgot
what the question was.
Lea Turner (34:55):
Leah, I'm sure it
was a great one. I said, Oh. I
said, What would you be doing if
you. At the start marketing
meetup. Where do you feel like
you'd be Now, obviously, apart
from starting at old traffic,
yeah,
Joe Glover (35:05):
well, apart from
that, it's funny, isn't it,
because we were speaking about
this before, before we we came
on today that like, what to give
an example, we were walking
around the conference venue. So
we're running a conference on
the 30th March this year. It's
the first time I've ever done
something like this. And within,
(35:26):
you know, a very, very small
circle of folks within the
marketing industry, some people
might recognise me. You know
that that is a thing which has
objectively happened, and
therefore I can't reject it and
say, you know, this is rubbish.
It has happened.
Lea Turner (35:38):
He's not bringing
himself up. Marketing,
Joe Glover (35:43):
but we're walking
around and we're being shown
around by quite a broad,
extroverted chap who was sort of
speaking about the venue and
stuff like that. And in that
moment, I just felt like a very
quiet person, you know, and he
had no sort of awareness that I
was the owner of the owner of
(36:04):
the company, or anything like
that. You know, I kind of just
felt like how I used to feel as
that sort of 24 year old
marketer, sort of hiding behind
the CEO of the company, sort of
in the meeting and stuff like
that. And so in a sense, you
know, I think what this
illustrates is that I've just
found something that I am good
at, that I found a, you know, a
(36:26):
happy place where I can show up
and show up as myself, and for
whatever reason, people resonate
with it, have engaged with it.
And, you know, now we're sat in
the studio together, sort of
recording the podcast, and it
feels like a thing, you know, so
the honest truth is, I don't
know. I probably wouldn't be
doing something where I felt
like I could show up as myself
quite as much, because this is
(36:47):
just like, This is it, you know,
like, it's been a series of
decisions made on gut and
intuition and just trying to do
the right thing. And so I'd
probably be less happy whatever
it is.
Lea Turner (37:00):
I think that's
really powerful as well, to be
to be able to say you were
following your gut and your
initiative at what is
objectively a very young age.
Like, I don't feel like I really
got confident in trusting my
gut, not in terms of business,
until the last few years. And I
was like, right? I'm doing
something that I'm I'm
(37:21):
objectively, fairly, I'm clearly
good at it because I made, made
money and made it a success. But
I don't think I trusted myself,
and that you would sort of trust
in your gut and your instincts
as a someone in their 20s. Yeah,
is and
Joe Glover (37:37):
how does that feel
different for you? Like, what's
what's the
Lea Turner (37:40):
I think I'm just
more confident. In backing
myself in business, like if
something goes wrong. I think
I've always been quite confident
in backing myself in the other
aspects of my life, if things go
wrong, statistically speaking,
I've always managed to come back
from it, therefore I'll probably
be all right. But I don't think
I ever felt that way in
business. I always just thought
there's not many things I'm very
(38:01):
good at, yeah. And I my first
business was, you know, very,
very low in terms of what I
earned. And I didn't realise I
was, you know, good at marketing
until I was surrounded by people
on LinkedIn going, you're
actually quite good at this,
yeah. And it took that, it took
other people pointing out my
strengths, for me to actually
recognise them, right? Because I
(38:22):
don't ever, and I don't know,
maybe that's like an introvert
thing. Maybe it's a
neurodivergent thing. I don't
know if you find the same
sometimes it's other people that
go, you're actually really good
at this. And I go, Yeah, am I?
Yeah? Well, this, this, this,
this. I'm like, Yeah, I guess
there's quite a lot of evidence.
I need that evidence to prove
it, and then I can take it
forward and be like, Okay, I am
(38:42):
good at this stuff, lots of
things I'm terrible at, yeah, so
many things I'm terrible at. But
it's lovely to own that. But
it's playing to your strengths,
isn't it?
Joe Glover (38:50):
That's it, you know,
I take, you know, I think
there's a one of those, you
know, those really long German
words, you know, to describe a
feeling or something like that.
You know, where you can, kind
of, I get so much joy from
seeing other people being
joyful, yeah, you know. And in
the sense, you know, I kind of,
I can see that with you, you
(39:11):
know, that sort of, that sense
of pride, you know, when someone
owns it and kind of goes, I'm
okay at this, yeah, you know, or
not even, I'm okay. I'm really
good, not even
Lea Turner (39:20):
in, like, an
arrogant or pretentious way.
It's just like, if you have to
look objectively at the facts,
if you're doing this thing and
you're getting positive results,
you are good at it, yeah, and
you're allowed to say that, and
it's not, and it's so
especially, I guess, for women
and British people, when we're,
you know, it's a Brits, such a
British thing. Oh, don't, buy
(39:40):
your own trumpet, you know, be
humble. But actually, if you're
marketing, you can't market
yourself as a product which,
which we essentially are with
service providers. If you're
constantly going on, I'm not
very good at that, they're just
gonna hire someone who says
they're good at it that can
prove it. It's
Joe Glover (39:58):
such a good. Point,
and I was speaking to someone
the other day, and so you and I
have both done stuff on LinkedIn
over the past few years, and
there's a lot of how we've grown
our businesses. And speaking to
someone the other day who was
quite reticent about posting on
LinkedIn, and the vibe I got,
rather than something they said
overtly, was, you know, that
they felt like they would be
(40:20):
portraying themselves as a guru,
or you know that well,
predominantly that you know,
they were fearful that they
would think other people would
think they were arrogantly
portraying themselves as, like,
I know something and whatever.
And it's just not that, you
know, and there's almost like
that smugness there is, there is
always going to be that crowd
(40:40):
who will kind of smirk or judge
or, you know, belittle folks for
putting themselves out there. I
mean, to speak to the
Britishness, I think that is one
of the things we learn in
school. You know, if you show
enthusiasm for something,
everyone else goes cut you down,
yeah. And so, you know, but to
(41:01):
be enthusiastic, you know, to
care, you know, and to sort of
own that, sort of like, either
own your story, you know, sort
of say I'm not quite a person,
but this, this is that, or, you
know, sort of generously share
and look to help people. That's
a glorious thing, you know. It
should be celebrated. And so
there's these reframes that we
(41:21):
can do on these trends that we
have.
Lea Turner (41:23):
I always try and
reframe people. When people say,
like, I'm just terrified of, you
know, I don't want to be seen as
a guru, or that I'm arrogant, or
I think I'm better than other
people, or I'm bigging myself up
too much. But if you're a
service provider, which most of
the people on LinkedIn are like
online service providers, if
they're self employed. If you
(41:44):
were selling a pair of shoes,
you would talk about how soft
the leather is, how that it's
been handmade, how long lasting
they are, how good value for
money they are. You talk about
all of these things, because
that's how you sell them. You
talk about all the amazing
features. But if it comes if you
are the product and your
knowledge is the thing that
you're selling, you can't sell
(42:04):
it if you're only ever talking
negatively about it or not
talking about it at all,
absolutely, because people will
just go and hire someone who is
talking about all the amazing
features. You just have to
divide yourself and say, there's
me, the real person, and then
there's the product that I'm
selling, and it's my job as the
person to talk about all the
benefits and features of me as a
(42:26):
product, and you have to detach
those things. That's the only
way I've managed to do it right.
It's really, is detaching the
two people that I am, yeah, but
then
Joe Glover (42:35):
so and I'm going to
remove you from this, because I
don't, you know, I've got your
permission to speak in your
personal terms about it, you
know. But we do these things for
our families, right? Yeah, 100%
we do to show for the people we
love. And the people we love can
be, you know, can be as small as
our children, our partners, or
it can be a wider community, you
know. And either way, you know,
(42:57):
whether you're looking to serve
those people or the wider
community, you know, sort of
being able to show up in that
way to help other people. And
yeah, if there's a give and
take, cool, yeah, so be it.
That's life. I've
Lea Turner (43:09):
really enjoyed this
chat with you. It's been very,
very, very long time coming, and
I am going to be at your
conference in March, so I'm
really looking forward to it.
And if it's not sold out already
by the time, I think it might
have actually happened, by the
time people hear this episode, I
hope so. Yeah, I'm really
looking forward to it. Thank you
(43:29):
so much. Thank you. Thank you
for having me. Supporting small
business owners is my biggest
passion, and that's what my
membership community, the HoLT
is all about. Inside the HoLT
are more than 150 master classes
from experts in every business
skill you could ever want, and
we add more every single month.
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(43:50):
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(44:10):
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(44:31):
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(44:52):
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I am aware that,
(00:00):
like, I'm living the dream
really, yeah, I'm surrounded by
people I love. I'm doing things
for people I love. We do these
things for our families, right?
Yeah, 100% we do it to show for
the people we love. And the
people we love can be, you know,
can be as small as our children,
our partners, or it can be a
wider community, you know. And
(00:21):
either way, you know, whether
you're looking to serve those
people or the wider community,
you know, sort of being able to
show up in that way to help
other people. And yeah, if
there's a give and take, cool,
yeah, so be it. That's life you
Lea Turner (00:46):
Mr. Joe Glover,
welcome to the HoLT Survival
Guide for Small Businesses. It's
so nice to finally meet you and
for you to have made the journey
all the way up to Manchester for
it. But before we get started,
could you just tell us a little
bit about who you are and what
you do? Of course,
Joe Glover (01:01):
I've got Bronson
here on my lap, so I'm having a
great time. They might just
fight. So that's that's a great
stuff. Oh, sorry, he's getting
old. So I'm Joe. I founded
something called the marketing
meetup nine years ago. Now, the
marketing Meetup is a community
for marketers. There's about
50,000 of us around the world.
(01:24):
We're on about 190 events this
year.
Unknown (01:27):
It's life now. But
Joe Glover (01:30):
the most important
thing about the market Meetup is
that it's a space where we've
coined this term to be
positively lovely, which is it's
a space where people could come
together, look after each other,
respect each other's humanity,
and sort of look to give rather
than look to get. It's a place
(01:54):
which hopefully folks feel safe.
And yeah, so we show up online
and in person, but very much in
the spirit of looking after
Lea Turner (02:01):
each other. And so
it's people who work in any area
of marketing across the world.
50,000 is a lot, isn't it?
That's incredible.
Joe Glover (02:09):
Yeah, it's wild.
It's, it's one of those, you
know. Like, I think, you know,
even when these things on a
community level, you know, I
think quite often it's, you
know, you look at the social
media stats, and it's like
250,000 but like, that's not
really what we mean by the
community. You know, the
community is those 50,000 folks
who are engaged in some way or
another, and, and, yeah, it's a
(02:30):
lot of people. It's, it's a
blessing. And
Lea Turner (02:33):
I think one of the
things I've always resonated
with since I first started
following you, and I think I'm
not how long ago, nine years
ago, you started the marketing
meetup, but I don't think it had
really gained the really gained
the massive traction when I
first came across you on
LinkedIn, and I always got this
vibe from the content that you
put out of like and I don't mean
this in an emasculating way, but
(02:54):
a gentleness about you and a
kindness and a calmness. And I
really loved that, because it's
so it's so different from maybe
the stereotype around marketing.
It's always quite, I've always
felt it's much more for like
extroverts, the creative
extroverts, the the the people
(03:17):
that are, I guess marketing,
it's all about attention
seeking, right? And so you kind
of have an assumption that it's
around these people that are
super comfortable in the
limelight, or, you know, the
centre of attention type of
people, but you're not like that
at all. And, and I really
resonated with your you're quite
(03:37):
you're quite open about being an
introvert. And I'm an introvert,
much to a lot of people's
surprise, but I've found myself
in a situation where I'm I need
to get attention to run my
business as an introvert. How
did you first come up with the
idea for the marketing meetup
and build it around yourself and
(03:58):
and make it so comfortable for
people that are introverted to
be in
Joe Glover (04:03):
I think it's one of
those things that you kind of,
you kind of pointed out, and you
answer there that there are
people who feel that way, right?
And so, I mean, the foundation
story of the marketing Meetup is
that I knew that I wanted to
meet other marketers and learn
about marketing, but whenever I
went to networking events in the
traditional sense, then I didn't
(04:24):
feel particularly comfortable.
And feel comfortable because I'd
walk in and folks would either
be stood in those circles or
like you'd say, you know, I
remember one occasion, I sort of
walked up to a group of people
and, like I said, Hi, I'm Joe,
and at the time, I was a
marketing manager in a small
agency, and I could literally
just sort of see them not be
interested in me because my job
(04:46):
title didn't match their
expectations. I didn't work for
this big brand. I worked for an
agency, and you know that sort
of traditional
Lea Turner (04:52):
when you and I used
to experience it. When I used to
socialise in the music industry,
people were always looking over
your shoulder to see if there's
someone more important. That you
speak to exactly that. So it
feels absolutely degrading and
embarrassing. You're like, Oh,
God, you never want to go back.
No,
Joe Glover (05:08):
it's just a, you
know, it's a lack of respect for
other people's humanity, right?
And and so the marketing Meetup
is really an exercise into
leaning into that, you know,
sort of acknowledging that those
things are real, and go, you
know, that's a bit weird that we
do that. You know, why don't we
do something that's nicer and
kinder, and look at the person
in front of us, and sort of that
(05:30):
person's going
Lea Turner (05:30):
to be in five years
time. Anyway, if you, if you, if
you burn a bridge by
disrespecting someone or
ignoring someone at that stage,
like, aside from just their
humanity and treating them like
a valuable person. You could be
shooting yourself massively in
the foot. Of course
Joe Glover (05:46):
you could. Of course
you could. I mean, you know,
nine years into this journey now
we've sort of been on the
journey with a lot of folks, you
know, yeah, they're now in that
sort of that impressive job
title, or whatever it may be.
But anything else, you know, you
got to know them. But you know,
I keep finding out what people's
jobs are these days, people who
are known for years, and you go,
Oh, wait, you actually do
(06:07):
something that's really cool,
yeah. But yeah, you know? I
mean, I think you know, to the
point you question when it comes
to that introversion, it's like,
well, let's not see this as a
weakness or as a counter. Just
sort of say, well, let's create
a space which feels comfortable
for those folks, yeah, and
acknowledge that I'm not the
only one. And, you know, I
didn't know I wasn't the only
(06:27):
one. I just put a group up on
meetup.com and 100 people signed
up with the values that we sort
of it
Lea Turner (06:32):
started out from
there, yeah, yeah. So 50,000
people in under 10 years. Do you
ever just think back when I go,
God, that's wild.
Joe Glover (06:42):
Like, I think of it
as a wild journey to a certain
extent, but, but you and I were
speaking about this before,
yeah, and there was kind of this
sense that, like, I don't think
either of us would reflect on
anything that we've necessarily
done and go, God, that's
impressive, or whatever, you
know. And I think both of us
have probably had people tell us
(07:04):
that it is, and so that's the
reason why. Hopefully that
hasn't come across this really
arrogant statement, but like,
it's only, it's only for other
people to say that. I think, you
know, and I don't really go just
Lea Turner (07:17):
feels kind of like
inevitable, you know, for us. I
suppose, as marketers, you see
an opportunity, you take it, you
leverage it, you go on to the
next opportunity. You take a
risk, you just follow it
through. You ride in the wave,
just going with the flow and
seeing what happens, and going,
Oh, this is cool. Let's try that
as well. Does that work? Let's
try that as well. And it's the
excitement and the thread of
(07:38):
that trying and succeeding, or
trying and failing and fixing it
and then trying again. That's
all super exciting. And then you
sort of get to this, this
pinnacle where people are going,
oh my god, wow. You're like,
Yeah, but like, loads of crap
happened along the way. This
wasn't, this wasn't all, like, I
didn't plan for all of this to
happen. It wasn't some grand
scheme. No, no, exactly, yeah.
So it doesn't really feel that
(07:58):
impressive, does it? When you're
there, you're just going, I just
sort of feel I stumbled across
it.
Joe Glover (08:04):
You try your best,
you know? And then you probably
got a set of values that drive
you along the way, right, that
sort of define those choices.
Lea Turner (08:13):
So you the
positively lovely people thing,
the little plus sign that you've
got in the logo, like all of
that resonates so much with me
that real human first
networking, not worrying about
what someone's job title is,
just like getting to know them
as a person. And that's
something I'm really, really hot
on with my community as well, is
we get to know each other
(08:34):
because we want to get to know
each other. We want to have fun
together, and the business
relationship kind of comes
second. And it's not like, What
can I get from you? It's, what
can I do for you? How can I help
you? And that works so
beautifully well, but kindness
can often be taken advantage of,
and sometimes marketing can be
ruthless, but business in
(08:54):
general is ruthless. I'd love to
know like, how do you think it's
been a real positive for you in
the business to have that real
focus on kindness, but also
maybe a time where you felt you
could have been taken advantage
of, or, you know, someone's
(09:15):
thrown up a red flag, and you've
gone, this isn't our kind of
person Like kindness can be. It
is the most amazing value to
have, yeah, but there are people
that will take advantage of it,
or, you know, manipulate you
because of that. Has there ever
been an instance
Joe Glover (09:33):
the thing, the thing
that I would probably say is,
it's not so much a specific
story. I'd say there are, of
course, folks who come along to,
you know, our events and stuff
like that, where they're not
necessarily in the spirit of
what we intended when they show
up for the first
Lea Turner (09:49):
time. What are your
red flags then that they how do
you know? So those folks will be
Joe Glover (09:53):
the folks who
immediately start handing out
business cards before they
started a conversation, you
know, or the folks who. You
know, are doing the sales pitch,
you know, I am X, you know, and
I am from y. And do you need? Do
you need Z, you know, before you
even started, you know,
whatever. And the thing about,
(10:15):
and this is why I was coming
back to this values thing, you
know, I think this is so
important for small business
owners and for people building
their businesses, which is like,
what are the things that you
stand for? And so this is the, I
think the best marketing thing
that we've done over the course
of time is not so much being
great at sort of like Tiktok or
anything like that, but it's
been about communicating our
values. And so this be
(10:36):
positively lovely thing. This
wasn't something that we had
from the beginning. This was
something that quite
organically, sort of surfaced
after six years, after six
months, and since that time,
we've communicated that
regularly, clearly through every
touch point that we have,
through the community. You know,
whether that's through the
online sign up, whether that's
the online forms, whether that's
(10:57):
at the beginning of the events,
yeah, and now hopefully, like,
people self select in or out.
And so it's one of those things
where, like, those people
probably have come they probably
have acted in a way which is
counter to what we expected,
yeah, but I bet they didn't come
back. If they did come back,
they came
Lea Turner (11:15):
back and did it
differently, yeah, exactly,
because they realised, oh, I can
drop the act here. I don't have
to be that version of myself,
Joe Glover (11:21):
exactly, you know,
and you know, for what it's
worth, you know, I have a
certain view on the world,
right? You know, I like to think
that generally, looking after
each other, good things come
around. But other people, you
know, live in that ruthless
environment. It's actually not
for me to judge and sort of say
that's the wrong way. Yeah, it's
just for me to say, You know
(11:41):
what? It's not for me. It's
Lea Turner (11:42):
not our way. Yeah,
exactly. Yeah. I mean, we've
we've got something similar with
the whole we we are freight. Our
tagline is where square pegs fit
perfectly, because we really
are. There's a lot of people in
there that are perfectly
ordinary in inverted commas, but
there's also a lot of people
that feel like misfits in the
business world. And similar to
the marketing meetup people,
it's people that don't really
(12:03):
like that, that formal
networking environment they want
to laugh and joke and have fun
and mess about a little bit and
not be judged for not knowing
something and asking what they
might think is a stupid
question, but it's not a stupid
question, like we all had those
at the beginning, but
organically, the phrase no knobs
allowed has become one of our
(12:26):
taglines that people really
remember. And it's, I mean, it's
the same kind of thing. Be
positively lovely. We've just
gone for the negative as no
knobs. And if you sort of think
I might probably a bit I'm like,
a hard sales pitchy person,
yeah, and we don't really get
those kinds of people in. No, it
is. It's about communicating
(12:46):
your values, not really our kind
of person, assuming they have
the self awareness to realise
they are a bit of a nom. Well,
Joe Glover (12:54):
you know. But I
think I love everything you said
there, because like that so
speaks to like I think people
will often think about community
building as an exercise in
community building, I I need to
get more people coming along to
my thing, a larger social
following, or whatever it is.
The thing that I think we do as
our jobs is not build community.
We be we build culture. Yeah, a
(13:14):
community, by its very nature,
is one that is owned by the
community, where the community
drive it, where the community
shape it the community. Take it
where they'd like to. Thing that
we need to do, you and I, is the
culture bit, and
Lea Turner (13:27):
that's so focused,
isn't it? Because I see a lot of
people talking about community.
It's a huge thing, especially
this year. Everybody wants to
get into the subscription model.
Everyone wants that recurring
income. Everyone wants
community. But so many people
mistake a community and a
membership, and maybe you agree,
maybe you've got your own
thoughts on it, but for me, a
membership is like the leader
(13:48):
has a relationship with lots of
clients, but do the people in it
have a relationship with one
another? Absolutely with the
marketing meetup, it's
absolutely evident. Because you
were saying there are people
that don't even get your name
right. They have no idea that
you are the founder, which is
amazing to me. I'm like, I love
that you can fly under the radar
like that and that one day, I
would love to have the hope be
(14:08):
like that. It's community led
with an amazing team. But no one
really knows who owns it,
because it's owned by the
people. But I have a
relationship with all of the
customers, or certainly as many
as I can. I mean, it's getting
very difficult to manage that,
but they have relationships with
each other, and they really
build on those, and they nurture
those together. And I'm
(14:29):
technically still like the
leader, but I'm it's not about
their relationship with me. It's
about nurturing those, those
like intertwined relationships
with each other. And that's the
difference between a community
for me, and I don't see that
with that many of these
communities that are popping up.
No,
Joe Glover (14:47):
but you know, I
think this also relates to your
first question about the
introversion and marketers and
stuff like that, which is that,
you know, the reason why,
hopefully, you know, I can
survive in the marketing.
Environment, we can survive in a
marketing environment. We can be
community folks. Is because the
whole point of marketing is that
(15:08):
you're doing something for the
customer, right? Service,
exactly. And in the same sense,
you know, I wouldn't use the
word customer for folks in the
marketing meetup community, you
know, you know, you'd say
community members. But like,
it's the same skill set in a
way, which is that, you know,
customer orientation, community
member orientation, you know,
which is like, this is about
you, you know, if we provide
(15:29):
something for you, yes, of
course, there is a material
benefit in terms of a financial
exchange, which, by the way, I
think a lot of people can get
quite nervous about, especially
when they're starting a small
business. I know that I did,
yeah, I was terrified of money.
You know, is that's okay if
you're providing value for folks
as well. But fundamentally, you
(15:49):
know, it's such a it's such a
strength if you care about other
people you want to help, whether
that's as a small business
owner, like really, really
caring about your customer base,
or as a community leader,
really, really caring and just
being there for your folks that
you want to
Lea Turner (16:01):
help. I think, like
I've noticed on LinkedIn that
there's definitely sort of a
division with people, where
you've got these kind of
ruthless business people, where
it's make money at any cost,
hustle bros, everything's about
how much cash you're making at
the end of the month. And then
there's a very service based
people that are really focused
on customer experience and
(16:21):
building relationships. I've
never really identified with
that whole get rich at any cost,
work yourself into the ground.
Everything's done to impress
others. I'm probably hyping
myself up a little bit too much,
and this isn't really but there
is that sort of idea about
LinkedIn, and that's the sum of
the people on there. Everyone's
(16:43):
in this massive circle jerk
excuse the phrase, but it's
definitely perceived like that.
Sometimes I've definitely been
on the other not saying I don't
see those people, but I've
definitely been on the other
side where it's so much about
helping one another. And I was
inspired to double down on that
and create something even more
like, private, safe, but with
(17:03):
that same kind of energy. How
did you first grow it so you had
this 100 people in the
meetup.com, where did it go?
From there to continue like,
what were you using? Facebook,
Instagram, LinkedIn, primarily,
where are you finding these
people? So,
Joe Glover (17:23):
primarily in the
first few years. So this is like
2016 or something like that. It
was through meetup.com and so we
would spring out a new
meetup.com page in each of our
respective locations. So this at
the time I was working as a
marketing manager in an agency,
the same agency I spoke about
(17:43):
earlier. And, you know, two
things happened. The first was
that people came to the
Cambridge event, which was the
first one, and then they'd come
up to me and sort of say, I've
enjoyed this. Can I run one in
Bedford, you know, sort of, I've
travelled, which was wicked, you
know. The other thing that
happened was that people said to
(18:04):
me, you know, we'd love this in
London, or we'd love this in
Norwich, or we'd love it in
Newcastle. I don't know why
Newcastle came so early, because
it was very, very far away, and
I would be running it myself,
and so in the evenings or
weekends or whatever, I'd be
travelling to these places to
run these events myself and so.
But each time it was using
meetup.com as it was, I mean,
(18:26):
and this is another, I guess,
another reflection from the
very, very early days that
became a real problem, because
the audience kind of got stuck
in meetup.com we didn't, we
didn't have the data for folks
when, when COVID happened. And
so right there was a wild
moment, you know, where, I
think, in around the time of
(18:47):
COVID, we had maybe 130 events
planned, or something like that.
I'd gone full time in april
2019, so it's sort of eight,
nine months into into full time
stuff. Yeah, as a on a
commercial level as a quote,
unquote events business. And
yeah, of course, the event
stopped. And so the saving grace
(19:08):
for us was that we had an email
newsletter list of like, 2300
people or something like that.
And so we're able to go out to
folks at that point and sort of
start the webinar programme. And
Lea Turner (19:19):
that's, I think, the
first time we got to know each
other, right? Because I did one
of your webinars, was it during
Joe Glover (19:25):
COVID Around that
time? It must have been, because
you've done a couple for us and
say, yeah, it must have been
sort of towards the tail end of
that sort of COVID period of
time, which was the real sort of
boost, you know, sort of lift
off period first
Lea Turner (19:38):
really started
getting seen on social media,
yeah, as well, yeah, yeah, it's
wild. And it proper, like
exploded after that, didn't it?
Yeah, it did,
Joe Glover (19:48):
you know. I mean,
again, you know, I guess if you
look at it purely from the
numbers perspective, then yeah,
you probably see it on the
graph, and you go, yeah, it
really went wild,
Lea Turner (19:58):
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eligibility. What I've witnessed
is that COVID year, we were very
(20:39):
much like we're all at home. We
can't go out anywhere. We're all
on, like, clubhouse and things
like that, trying to get adult
conversation, especially when
we've got small children, it's
like, I just want an adult
conversation. And then we've
kind of embraced this kind of
home working thing for the last
few years, but I've really felt
(20:59):
people are craving to get back
face to face, especially last
year, it's it feels like things
are moving much more towards
going back into the office,
seeing people face to face,
going to in person events, which
I'm excited about because I do
as much like I'm an introvert. I
do thrive off comfortable social
interactions with people that I
(21:20):
know, and being being face to
face with people, because I
spend too much time on my own.
But where do you see it going
from here, like in because you
still do stuff online as well,
don't you? Yeah, absolutely, and
you're doing things in person.
And how many countries
Joe Glover (21:36):
are you in now, I
don't know how many countries
we're on five continents.
Lea Turner (21:42):
I mean, there's only
six,
Unknown (21:44):
six or seven
Lea Turner (21:46):
that's pretty damn
in nine years. It's unbelievable
that you're having such a big
impact. What do you what's your
like, day to day involvement
with it now? Like, how much, how
much time are you putting into
it?
Joe Glover (22:00):
Well, I'm full time.
It's a funny thing. So even in
the past few weeks, I've been
reflecting on this, you know. So
part of this conversation was
this sort of sense of, like, it
would be great to get to the
point where, you know, the Homer
Simpson meme, you know, it kind
of just backs into the bush,
disappears, yeah, that's huge.
I'd love to do that, you know,
(22:21):
and so I'd love to get to that
point, like on the very
operational level, so the
running of the events, that kind
of thing, I'm almost not
involved at all. So l, who's our
head of events, who is the
world's nicest person? She is
anything less. She is sunshine.
(22:41):
She is sunshine itself. Just she
was our first hire. And like, I
can be more proud of her as a
human being and to associate
myself with her, there's
definitely a subject there. So,
like, she handles so much when
it comes to the in person
events. Yeah, I do a lot of the
webinar stuff in terms of the
curation, hosting them, that
(23:03):
kind of thing. But I'd love to
get to a place we just hired our
fourth person so forth, full
time.
Lea Turner (23:10):
I can't believe that
you've got such a lean team and
you run, it's wild, isn't it?
Yeah, that's that's impressive.
Well, there's
Joe Glover (23:16):
full credit to the
organisers as well. So we have
local organisers running the
events close to them as well.
There's about 100 of them around
the world. So it depends who
we're trying to impress. You
know, we've either got a team of
four or 104 so it depends what
you want to what you want to
say, but we're being
Unknown (23:31):
real here. Yeah,
exactly.
Joe Glover (23:35):
But, you know, so
there are so many people
involved, and you know, like we
said earlier, some of them don't
know my name, but I sort of see
that in a really positive light,
because I'm like, this thing
isn't about me, you know, and I
want to be there to support
them, but equally, you know,
like, if they know the values
and they know the spirit in
which things are set up, and
there we go. So for me, it's now
(23:56):
a moment of discovery, which is
like, what do I do here? You
know? And so this year is about
taking some really big shots,
you know, and sort of going
like, who are the speakers that
we have no right to get on that
Lea Turner (24:10):
stage? Your big
dominoes? Yeah, as, I don't know
if you know Andrew and Pete,
that's what they describe them
as big dominoes. They did a talk
at atomicon last year where
they're saying, like, be
audacious, right? Yeah, when
you're when you first start out,
work out what your big Domino
is. Yours, there's absolutely no
way I would have any chance
whatsoever of being able to do
(24:32):
this. Yeah. And theirs was
social media. I think they said
social media world. They wanted
to speak on stage, yeah. So they
had to find out what all the
steps were that they would need
to take to get that and they
literally doubled down to make
sure they did that. I love that
so much, and I think, like, I've
had a few people who it clearly
resonated with them, and maybe
they've done newsletters or
(24:52):
content about it, but they've
come to me and said things like,
I'd love to get you on my
podcast. You're my big Domino.
And the minute they say. That
I'm like, and don't, hopefully
everyone's not gonna be
messaging me this big Domino,
but I'm like, oh my god, imagine
being someone's big, dumb. What
are your big dominoes?
Joe Glover (25:10):
I don't want to give
them away, in case I'm massively
but
Lea Turner (25:13):
you might speak into
existence. Yeah,
Joe Glover (25:15):
honestly, well, I
think the thing for me is that I
have an awareness that there are
certain folks that we get along.
I would love to get more folks
from outside the marketing
industry coming to speak to the
marketing meetup, folks who have
interesting life experience.
I've got a list of 50, you know,
so like and but I think there's
probably something here, which
is like, I love how Andrew and
(25:37):
Peter now you've you sort of
relayed that message, because it
makes so much sense. I think
it's one of the themes of this
conversation in general, which
is just not being afraid to try,
you know. And so I am a quieter
person, but blooming Hall. I
think I'm a thoughtful person
too. So if I can put together
the most thoughtful approach
that I possibly could to Barack
(25:58):
Obama or whatever, you know,
Lea Turner (26:02):
I won't put anything
past you with what you've
achieved. Well, then, because
you do it with such kindness,
Joe Glover (26:07):
there's, there's,
there's a funny thing. So we've
got, we've got a board, and
we've got a chairperson, and our
chairperson sort of laughs at me
sometimes, and he says, You're
such a contradiction in the
sense that you can be massively
unconfident about some things
and then massively confident
about others. And so in a sense,
I kind of believe, I kind of
kind of don't maybe Rebecca
(26:28):
Brown was like the crazy
universe sort of thing. But, you
know, you never know Steven
Bartlett, but, you know, it's
like, who knows, you know, who
knows you could but there's
other things which I'm just,
like, terrified of, you know,
and so finance always used to be
something and like, there's a
nickiness around, sort of, like,
particularly with community, you
(26:50):
know, the sense that, hey, you
know, you can be making money
from building a community and
sort of speaking about kindness,
but also have capitalism and
commercialism as part of this.
That was a me thing. Because
actually, what you realise is
that so many people are like,
rooting for you, yeah, and
they're just like, you know, of
course, you know, you know,
getting paid if you're able to
(27:11):
choose your family, it's a
Lea Turner (27:13):
weird, uncomfortable
thing, because you feel like
you're kind of doing the right
thing. Do you support any one of
the things I find helps me to
feel more comfortable about that
is where I'm giving back. So
like charity work and sort of
things that we do that go above
and beyond, which I'm sure you
do in the marketing meet up, is
the above and beyond stuff. So
although they're paying for the
(27:35):
whole it, they're 65 pound a
month, right? But what we give
them for that 65 pounds a month
is enormous. And that's me.
That's my inner poor person with
a terrible money mindset that
goes I have to massively,
massively, really, over deliver
to make it worth that money. And
for me to feel good about
charging it 65 pounds a big deal
(27:56):
for a lot of people, right?
Yeah, and for the people that we
want to attract, often. They're
very much at the beginning of
their business, and some of them
are very far along, and they're
there for the community and
sport. But I'm like 65 pounds. I
remember when I was absolutely
skin, barely making ends meet. I
needed what the whole would have
(28:17):
given me back then, absolutely.
And it did feel like a lot of
money, absolutely,
Joe Glover (28:21):
but, and you're
right. I mean, that thing about
what the whole will give you,
yeah, it's a wider lesson, which
is, like so often, you don't do
these things alone, right? And
if it wasn't for my chairperson,
if it wasn't for my co founder,
if it wasn't for L if it wasn't
for the organisers, if it
weren't for the community, it
wouldn't mean what it is, yeah,
Lea Turner (28:39):
and they don't work
for free because to give, and
that's the thing, isn't it? You
they need to earn from it. You
need to earn from it because you
can't make it as good as it can
be if there's no finances
involved. Therefore people will
understand. But it's such a
weird place to be like the
asking for money to give them
something. If we could give it
to people for free, we
(28:59):
absolutely would. Maybe that's
the goal. Maybe,
Joe Glover (29:02):
you know, I love the
idea of the community, one pay
only in the community, you know,
like having the shareholding
sort of stuff, you know, be
incredible, yeah, yeah.
Lea Turner (29:10):
Or just some, like
marketing giant that just says,
Hey, here's loads of money. Do
what you want with it. I'd love
that. If anyone wants to give me
millions, absolutely great. So
where do you see it going, like
it's obviously, I'm going to
assume, yeah, far bigger than
you ever expected, or you could
have ever imagined that it would
(29:32):
go right. How big do you feel
like it could go and how long
like do you see yourself being
involved with it? Like, is this
something you're going to grow
to 20, 20 million? Like, yeah,
are you still going to be doing
it in your 50s? Like,
Joe Glover (29:53):
you know, I mean, I
don't know whether I've spoken
about this publicly,
necessarily. I don't want to be
doing it my 50s, necessarily.
Hmm, not because I don't find it
enjoyable, but life is so rich,
right? You know? And there is so
much to be done. I think there's
a there's a weird paradox even
in that, because even as I say
those words, I am aware that,
(30:15):
like, I'm living the dream,
really, yeah, I'm surrounded by
people I love. I'm doing things
for people I love, you know, I
Lea Turner (30:23):
beautiful family,
yeah, work that gives you
purpose and fulfilment, yeah,
you
Joe Glover (30:28):
know. And so I'll do
it for as long as it makes
sense, as long as I'm helpful,
you know, as long as I'm helpful
to folks, then I'll carry on.
You know. TMM, didn't always
exist, and it doesn't always
have to exist, you know, I'd
like to think that people want
it to exist. He's someone that
wants to step in and take over
maybe, maybe one day, so, you
know, we'll figure it out. But,
like, I haven't got any concrete
(30:48):
plans and in terms of how big it
goes, then I've not spent a lot
of time sort of thinking about a
grand vision. What I have a
sense of is there are marketers
out there who are competent but
not necessarily confident. There
are people who are amazing, but
(31:09):
they're alone. You know, there
are, there are people at the
beginning of their journey with
so much, you know, enthusiasm,
intelligence, but just nowhere
to go, to go and get it, or a
specific direction. And for the
most part, I think we're doing a
fairly good job of helping them.
And so I think if we continue to
(31:29):
do that, you know, even on
Tuesday, you know, you sort of
see a LinkedIn post coming up
after a webinar where someone
said, I didn't know a webinar
could do this, but it's
literally changed my life. And
it's like, freaking egg, you
know, it's
Lea Turner (31:42):
kind of the thing
that gives you the most perfect
set. Because I know, for me,
when I see someone, someone sent
me a video testimonial
yesterday. She's only just
joined the membership. Yeah, and
she sent me it was just like a
one minute testimonial about her
experiences joining. And my
heart literally jumped in. Like,
oh my god. This feels so good to
know something that I've, I've
(32:03):
created, even though I feel
uncomfortable saying that I've
created the thing, I've given
them, the conduit, they've
they've run with it. The people
are what makes the community so
great, yeah, but when I have
those moments, that's the bit
that makes me very happiest.
It's not the money coming into
the bank. It's none of that.
It's it's the impact, and
hearing about it, of course, and
(32:23):
I get the feet, yeah, that's the
same for you. Yeah,
Joe Glover (32:26):
it is. I mean, the
discomfort, and I don't say this
as a good trait or an enviable
trait, is that I don't really
recognise it or register it in
some ways. You know, I recognise
how incredible it is, but I
don't own it. And go, I did that
exactly
Lea Turner (32:41):
right? You look at I
look at it, and I go, I'm so I'm
so proud of the other members
for making her experience great.
I'm so, so proud that she's come
in and actually embraced getting
to know people and had a good
experience, and tried the master
classes and done this and done
that. I'm like, I feel proud of
them, not not me, because you
just start something, yeah, and
(33:02):
they've run with it, of course,
and you're just going, Okay,
well, I just need to keep up
with it and make sure
everything's running smoothly
and let them get on with it.
Kind of thing. It's it's an
interesting one. It really is.
How do you think, like, imagine
if you hadn't started the
marketing meetup, yeah, where do
you think you'd be? Now, if that
hadn't happened,
Joe Glover (33:23):
I'd like to think
I'd be a professional footballer
playing for my I don't know,
like you were
Lea Turner (33:30):
very young when you
started that. I mean, you're
still very young now. Thank you.
Thank you. I have to say that
because I'm older than you,
honestly, it's
Joe Glover (33:39):
really but I look 53
sometimes.
Lea Turner (33:42):
So, but 33 so 24 you
I mean, that's a that's a lot at
24 and and for 33 to have
achieved so much, you could be
retired by 40
Joe Glover (33:53):
maybe That'd be
nice. I mean, it's funny, isn't
it? Because I think even even in
that, you know, some people
would probably listen to that
thing and go, ah, you know,
either he is young or whatever.
But I couldn't start the
marketing me up again today. You
know, I've got two kids now, you
know, so that that sort of
heading to Newcastle on a random
(34:14):
evening, or heading to Norwich
on a random evening, or even
going to London, you know, and
even those events not being
packed out or whatever. You
know, it's not been as
successful all the time. I
remember standing outside the
London event because there were
three events to start off with.
We had 80 people signed up and
15 people turned up. And the
demoralising, yeah. And you know
that as an experience, you know,
(34:36):
had I been in 33 year old Joe's
shoes, you might have gone stuff
it, you know, I've given up the
kids bedtime for this, or
whatever, you know, yeah, and
so, you know, it is one of those
right time, right place things
as well. But, yeah, I forgot
what the question was.
Lea Turner (34:55):
Leah, I'm sure it
was a great one. I said, Oh. I
said, What would you be doing if
you. At the start marketing
meetup. Where do you feel like
you'd be Now, obviously, apart
from starting at old traffic,
yeah,
Joe Glover (35:05):
well, apart from
that, it's funny, isn't it,
because we were speaking about
this before, before we we came
on today that like, what to give
an example, we were walking
around the conference venue. So
we're running a conference on
the 30th March this year. It's
the first time I've ever done
something like this. And within,
(35:26):
you know, a very, very small
circle of folks within the
marketing industry, some people
might recognise me. You know
that that is a thing which has
objectively happened, and
therefore I can't reject it and
say, you know, this is rubbish.
It has happened.
Lea Turner (35:38):
He's not bringing
himself up. Marketing,
Joe Glover (35:43):
but we're walking
around and we're being shown
around by quite a broad,
extroverted chap who was sort of
speaking about the venue and
stuff like that. And in that
moment, I just felt like a very
quiet person, you know, and he
had no sort of awareness that I
was the owner of the owner of
(36:04):
the company, or anything like
that. You know, I kind of just
felt like how I used to feel as
that sort of 24 year old
marketer, sort of hiding behind
the CEO of the company, sort of
in the meeting and stuff like
that. And so in a sense, you
know, I think what this
illustrates is that I've just
found something that I am good
at, that I found a, you know, a
(36:26):
happy place where I can show up
and show up as myself, and for
whatever reason, people resonate
with it, have engaged with it.
And, you know, now we're sat in
the studio together, sort of
recording the podcast, and it
feels like a thing, you know, so
the honest truth is, I don't
know. I probably wouldn't be
doing something where I felt
like I could show up as myself
quite as much, because this is
(36:47):
just like, This is it, you know,
like, it's been a series of
decisions made on gut and
intuition and just trying to do
the right thing. And so I'd
probably be less happy whatever
it is.
Lea Turner (37:00):
I think that's
really powerful as well, to be
to be able to say you were
following your gut and your
initiative at what is
objectively a very young age.
Like, I don't feel like I really
got confident in trusting my
gut, not in terms of business,
until the last few years. And I
was like, right? I'm doing
something that I'm I'm
(37:21):
objectively, fairly, I'm clearly
good at it because I made, made
money and made it a success. But
I don't think I trusted myself,
and that you would sort of trust
in your gut and your instincts
as a someone in their 20s. Yeah,
is and
Joe Glover (37:37):
how does that feel
different for you? Like, what's
what's the
Lea Turner (37:40):
I think I'm just
more confident. In backing
myself in business, like if
something goes wrong. I think
I've always been quite confident
in backing myself in the other
aspects of my life, if things go
wrong, statistically speaking,
I've always managed to come back
from it, therefore I'll probably
be all right. But I don't think
I ever felt that way in
business. I always just thought
there's not many things I'm very
(38:01):
good at, yeah. And I my first
business was, you know, very,
very low in terms of what I
earned. And I didn't realise I
was, you know, good at marketing
until I was surrounded by people
on LinkedIn going, you're
actually quite good at this,
yeah. And it took that, it took
other people pointing out my
strengths, for me to actually
recognise them, right? Because I
(38:22):
don't ever, and I don't know,
maybe that's like an introvert
thing. Maybe it's a
neurodivergent thing. I don't
know if you find the same
sometimes it's other people that
go, you're actually really good
at this. And I go, Yeah, am I?
Yeah? Well, this, this, this,
this. I'm like, Yeah, I guess
there's quite a lot of evidence.
I need that evidence to prove
it, and then I can take it
forward and be like, Okay, I am
(38:42):
good at this stuff, lots of
things I'm terrible at, yeah, so
many things I'm terrible at. But
it's lovely to own that. But
it's playing to your strengths,
isn't it?
Joe Glover (38:50):
That's it, you know,
I take, you know, I think
there's a one of those, you
know, those really long German
words, you know, to describe a
feeling or something like that.
You know, where you can, kind
of, I get so much joy from
seeing other people being
joyful, yeah, you know. And in
the sense, you know, I kind of,
I can see that with you, you
(39:11):
know, that sort of, that sense
of pride, you know, when someone
owns it and kind of goes, I'm
okay at this, yeah, you know, or
not even, I'm okay. I'm really
good, not even
Lea Turner (39:20):
in, like, an
arrogant or pretentious way.
It's just like, if you have to
look objectively at the facts,
if you're doing this thing and
you're getting positive results,
you are good at it, yeah, and
you're allowed to say that, and
it's not, and it's so
especially, I guess, for women
and British people, when we're,
you know, it's a Brits, such a
British thing. Oh, don't, buy
(39:40):
your own trumpet, you know, be
humble. But actually, if you're
marketing, you can't market
yourself as a product which,
which we essentially are with
service providers. If you're
constantly going on, I'm not
very good at that, they're just
gonna hire someone who says
they're good at it that can
prove it. It's
Joe Glover (39:58):
such a good. Point,
and I was speaking to someone
the other day, and so you and I
have both done stuff on LinkedIn
over the past few years, and
there's a lot of how we've grown
our businesses. And speaking to
someone the other day who was
quite reticent about posting on
LinkedIn, and the vibe I got,
rather than something they said
overtly, was, you know, that
they felt like they would be
(40:20):
portraying themselves as a guru,
or you know that well,
predominantly that you know,
they were fearful that they
would think other people would
think they were arrogantly
portraying themselves as, like,
I know something and whatever.
And it's just not that, you
know, and there's almost like
that smugness there is, there is
always going to be that crowd
(40:40):
who will kind of smirk or judge
or, you know, belittle folks for
putting themselves out there. I
mean, to speak to the
Britishness, I think that is one
of the things we learn in
school. You know, if you show
enthusiasm for something,
everyone else goes cut you down,
yeah. And so, you know, but to
(41:01):
be enthusiastic, you know, to
care, you know, and to sort of
own that, sort of like, either
own your story, you know, sort
of say I'm not quite a person,
but this, this is that, or, you
know, sort of generously share
and look to help people. That's
a glorious thing, you know. It
should be celebrated. And so
there's these reframes that we
(41:21):
can do on these trends that we
have.
Lea Turner (41:23):
I always try and
reframe people. When people say,
like, I'm just terrified of, you
know, I don't want to be seen as
a guru, or that I'm arrogant, or
I think I'm better than other
people, or I'm bigging myself up
too much. But if you're a
service provider, which most of
the people on LinkedIn are like
online service providers, if
they're self employed. If you
(41:44):
were selling a pair of shoes,
you would talk about how soft
the leather is, how that it's
been handmade, how long lasting
they are, how good value for
money they are. You talk about
all of these things, because
that's how you sell them. You
talk about all the amazing
features. But if it comes if you
are the product and your
knowledge is the thing that
you're selling, you can't sell
(42:04):
it if you're only ever talking
negatively about it or not
talking about it at all,
absolutely, because people will
just go and hire someone who is
talking about all the amazing
features. You just have to
divide yourself and say, there's
me, the real person, and then
there's the product that I'm
selling, and it's my job as the
person to talk about all the
benefits and features of me as a
(42:26):
product, and you have to detach
those things. That's the only
way I've managed to do it right.
It's really, is detaching the
two people that I am, yeah, but
then
Joe Glover (42:35):
so and I'm going to
remove you from this, because I
don't, you know, I've got your
permission to speak in your
personal terms about it, you
know. But we do these things for
our families, right? Yeah, 100%
we do to show for the people we
love. And the people we love can
be, you know, can be as small as
our children, our partners, or
it can be a wider community, you
know. And either way, you know,
(42:57):
whether you're looking to serve
those people or the wider
community, you know, sort of
being able to show up in that
way to help other people. And
yeah, if there's a give and
take, cool, yeah, so be it.
That's life. I've
Lea Turner (43:09):
really enjoyed this
chat with you. It's been very,
very, very long time coming, and
I am going to be at your
conference in March, so I'm
really looking forward to it.
And if it's not sold out already
by the time, I think it might
have actually happened, by the
time people hear this episode, I
hope so. Yeah, I'm really
looking forward to it. Thank you
(43:29):
so much. Thank you. Thank you
for having me. Supporting small
business owners is my biggest
passion, and that's what my
membership community, the HoLT
is all about. Inside the HoLT
are more than 150 master classes
from experts in every business
skill you could ever want, and
we add more every single month.
There are also sales clinics,
tech clinics, well being,
(43:50):
support and advice and discounts
on a huge range of software and
services. But it's so much more
than just trainings and
resources. Everyone inside the
HoLT shares their years of
knowledge and experience
generously with kindness and
without judgement. They're super
active. The chat channels are
buzzing, and it's like having
600 business cheerleaders in
(44:10):
your pocket willing you to
succeed and helping you wherever
they can. And we offer all of
this and much more at an
extremely low price, because we
know that budgets are tight when
you're bootstrapping a business.
The HoLT is a kind, inclusive
and non judgmental place where
everyone knows that working
together is the fastest way to
succeed, and it makes it a whole
(44:31):
lot more fun. We would love for
you to join us. You can check
out the full details on the
halt.com or if communities
aren't really your vibe and you
just want access to the hundreds
of expert master class
recordings with a combined value
of more than 10,000 pounds. You
can access the vault right now
for just 20 pounds per month.
The Vault is all the master
(44:52):
classes with none of the chat or
distractions, just pure value.
Visit the-holt.com/vault to sign
up and start bingeing your way
through. Brilliant trainings
from leading experts. You.
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