October 14, 2024 • 41 mins
Does your work make you feel alive or are you deep in the doldrums?
Nothing can beat the feeling of doing something that energises you, that you know is exactly what you are meant to be doing.
And you know what?
Your age when you make the change means absolutely nothing.
In this episode I am joined by the fabulous Katie Flamman, who decided to end a successful career in the news to take on her next big challenge in life, becoming a full-time mum. 10 years later she was ready to find out what would be next for her work life.
She found a love and talent for voice acting. Now a multi-award winning, expert in her field she is here to share her story. The challenges she faced balancing motherhood with her career aspirations. As well as the resourcefulness required to start her voiceover business.
There is so much to learn here from Katie about what your business has the potential to become from humble beginnings.
“It was the most alive and energised I think I'd ever felt.”– Katie
You’ll hear about:
00:00 – Going to L.A. for an award vs the PTA bonfire
00:52 - What led Katie to where she is now?
03:30 - How Katie got into voiceover work
05:27 - Choosing motherhood over careers
09:23 - Finding something just for herself
13:40 - Katie's self-doubt in business at 40
17:32 - The more resourceful you are the better
26:02 - How has success impacted Katie's life?
32:11 - The joy of finding the passion in what you do
Connect with Katie:
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/katie-flamman/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/katieflamman/
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8AO9P-FVaJcqsNn01xzKdw
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/katieflammanvoiceover/
X - https://twitter.com/KatieFlamman
See Katie’s work on Vimeo - https://vimeo.com/katieflamman
Katie’s website - https://katieflamman.co.uk/
Listen to Katie’s podcast Storytelling for Business - https://katieflamman.co.uk/the-storytelling-for-business-podcast/
Connect with me:
The HoLT - https://www.the-holt.com/
My website - https://leaturner.co.uk/
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/lea-turner/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/leaturnerholt
Join The Holt waiting list - https://www.the-holt.com/waitlist
This podcast is sponsored bySafe Space From The Workplace. You can check out their podcast here - https://shorturl.at/IASSn
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Katie Flamman (00:00):
It was
(00:00):
November 2016 and I was
supposed to be running
the PTA bonfire party. I
batch cooked masses of
meals and labeled
everything. And, you
know, my mum was on
standby to because the
kids were quite small at
this time, and the amount
of effort and work that
went into me going to LA
Yeah, for five six days,
(00:24):
but it was the most alive
and energized I think I'd
ever felt in work. You
Lea Turner (00:44):
Katie
Flamman, welcome along to
the Holt Survival Guide
for Small Businesses.
Thank you so much for
traveling all the way up
to Manchester to see us
before we get into a
conversation. I'd love to
hear a little bit about
who you are, where you've
been, and what led you to
hear,
Katie Flamman (01:01):
okay,
well, I've had a kind of
compartmentalized career,
but what I do right now
is voiceovers and
presenting in person and
kind of behind the scenes
and live event announcing
and basically talking for
a living, Sometimes on
camera, sometimes not.
And before that, I Well,
(01:23):
I still am a mum, but
before I did voiceovers,
I've been voice over ring
for 10 years. Before
that, I was a mum for 10
years, and did all kinds
of random jobs as stay at
home mums do in that
time, and before that, I
worked in television news
(01:44):
as a multi skilled do all
kinds of things person.
So I started out as a
multi skilled producer, I
was a reporter, a news
reader, and then I became
an executive producer and
a program editor, kind of
bossing everybody else
around and running news
programs, and I stopped
doing that when I had had
(02:04):
my babies. So yeah, I've
done quite a few things.
So
Lea Turner (02:08):
if you sound
or look slightly
familiar, people will
understand why. I
definitely felt like that
when I first encountered
you and we first worked
together, I was like, you
do have a very familiar
voice, but I know that
there will be things we
might have heard you on,
but, but sometimes it's
just the fact that you've
got quite a traditional
sounding, beautiful
accent. It's,
Katie Flamman (02:28):
it's very
interesting, because the
trend now, particularly
in the UK, is for
regional voices real, if
you like voices. Oh, so
Lea Turner (02:37):
your voice
isn't real.
Katie Flamman (02:38):
My what?
My voice isn't my voice
isn't kind of cool or or
normal, but my you do
Lea Turner (02:47):
sound like a
news reader. Yeah, yeah,
very much.
Katie Flamman (02:50):
This voice
is very popular in Europe
and in America because,
actually, they don't want
regional accents. They
want something that's
clear, yeah, and easy to
understand, and it's
called RP received
pronunciation. Yeah, used
to be the Queen's
English. I guess it's the
King's English now, but
yeah, so, so in the UK, I
(03:12):
work a lot on training
videos and internal
company explainers,
particularly where they
have large client bases
or employee bases, who
are all over the world,
right? Because they want
a clear, kind of
unaccented voice, yeah?
So, yeah, it's funny how
when voiceover trends go
really so
Lea Turner (03:30):
I'm really
interested, and I'm sure
you get asked it all the
time, but how on earth do
you get into something
like voiceover works?
Because this whole, this
whole podcast, is focused
on people who are
thinking about setting up
small business, or who
already run a small
business, and what we can
offer to help them. And
voiceover seems like
quite a unique and
unusual thing to suddenly
(03:51):
go, hey, I can do this.
There must have been a
point where someone said,
well, you'd be really
good at this. Well,
Katie Flamman (03:56):
I it kind
of it joins the dots a
lot for me. So I did an
English degree at
university, and I did
loads of acting, loved
acting and singing and
performing and stuff like
that at uni, but I didn't
know what to do with my
life. I mean, you know,
English degree could be
anything, and I did
(04:17):
University radio and
stuff like that, but I
still wasn't really sure
where to go, so I ended
up doing a postgraduate
diploma in broadcast
journalism and and I went
into into the world of
news. I wasn't I meant to
anyone. I wasn't really
interested in current
affairs. I had to kind of
(04:37):
learn I was watching it,
but, but I, I loved the
fact that it was really
varied. It gave me so
much variety,
particularly working on
Channel Five news, where
I was like, doing all the
things. And my very first
job was with channel one
television, which was
like local news for
London, right? And I
zipped around London in a
(04:58):
little car they wanted me
to ride. Moped, but I was
just like, No.
Lea Turner (05:02):
I think I
would have said no to
that one. And
Katie Flamman (05:05):
I filmed
all the things and filmed
or interviewed all the
people, and then I turned
the camera around and
filmed myself, and then
went back and we edited
it, and they had me news
reading and all sorts of
things. So it was great
grounding for when I went
to Channel Five. Sorry,
this is a long answer for
how did you get into
voiceover? But that doing
that I was presenting, I
was reporting, I was
using my voice. But then
(05:27):
when I went into news,
and then when I became
pregnant with my first
child, news is really
24/7, and so are babies,
and I didn't want to
share the baby, yeah,
with somebody else. And
so we moved out of London
and into the countryside,
(05:48):
and I kind of almost like
drew a hard, hard line
under that part of my
life. And I did, did news
for almost 10 years, and
then I was a stay at home
mum for 10 years, and
change your pace, isn't
it? It's really
different. And I did lots
of things. I had I went a
(06:08):
bit mad.
Lea Turner (06:10):
I think
that's pretty relatable,
though. I think you know,
to parents in general,
but more specifically
mums, there is a real
period of often feeling
like you've lost yourself
to motherhood, and your
life becomes so consumed
by what you need to do
for others and all these
people depending on you,
that you do feel like you
lose yourself. And it can
feel like, well, this is
(06:31):
the end of my career as
it seems, yeah, I don't
know how I'm ever going
to go back. The world
changes in a decade. How
far forward does
technology and life and
people move, and you go,
God, how am I ever going
to go back to well?
Katie Flamman (06:44):
And I had
gone from being an
executive producer I was
at Sky News. By then,
they were making the news
for Channel Five, and I'd
worked on massive stories
like September the 11th
and shuttle crashes and
stuff. And I went from
that to cleaning sick off
of various people,
including myself,
multiple times a day, and
(07:04):
I was very good at
cleaning up sick,
actually. But it's not,
it's such an enormous
change of pace. And
you're right, you do very
quickly feel you lose
your confidence, you lose
your ability to it's not
you don't lose self
respect, but kind of, as
(07:25):
a professional person,
you kind of do lose that.
And I was, you know, it's
Lea Turner (07:31):
hard when
you're not like out
earning money and feeling
like you're materially
contributing, even though
you clearly are, we are
we are contributing to a
household by raising
children. We're
contributing to society
by raising children, but
we don't fit for some
reason, and maybe it's
society in general, makes
us feel like we should be
doing everything we you
know, we get told off for
being stay at home mums
(07:52):
because we're lazy, and
if we go to work, we're
told we're abandoning our
children who can't win.
It's an absolute. And
you're just, you're just
there in the middle,
going, okay, but I like,
I feel like I should be
working and earning my
own money and supporting
myself. And yet, there is
that pull to be at home
with your children. We
can't win. And it's, you
know, the curse of being
I'm not saying men don't
(08:13):
feel that parental guilt,
but there's certainly a
lot less pressure for men
to be everything well,
Katie Flamman (08:19):
and for
me, also, I came out of
of newsrooms which were a
very aggressive, and not
not in a sort of bullying
way, but in a you have to
be on it and and you need
to speak up, and you need
to be all over all the
things. And if you took a
(08:40):
day off, you would, and I
would obsessively read
all the papers and watch
everybody else's news
program. So when I went
back in, I wasn't
suggesting something,
that somebody would go,
Oh, channel four did that
yesterday. You know?
Yeah, it all moves so
quickly and and so from a
from a point of view of
being out of that
(09:01):
environment for 10 years.
Like, you know, if you
take your eye off the
ball from you feel like
an idiot. And so you
didn't feel like you
could go back. I didn't,
and I could have done
local news, but I also,
having done all of the
massive national stories,
was kind of like, I don't
think I want to do, yeah,
or, you know, sheep on
(09:21):
the loose. So voiceover
came up. So voiceover
came up. So I decided I
wanted something for me.
And at this time, my
husband was working kind
of crazy hours, traveling
a lot. He was living
abroad some of the time,
so I was really full on,
in charge of the
children, and they were
(09:43):
eight and 10, and I
thought, I really need
something for me. And my
friend, Nigel, who I was
at university with, was
an actor and was doing
voiceover. And I said,
Nigel, do you think I
could do voiceover? And
he said, Well, darling,
there are plenty of
people that sound like
you, and there. Very
successful you could try.
So it was like, Okay,
Lea Turner (10:06):
I love to say
that. Well, I like very
generic
Katie Flamman (10:10):
sounding.
Yeah, there's loads of
people that sound like
you. So the market is
saturated, essentially,
is what he said. But I
did a one day
introduction to voiceover
course in London, and I
got some really good
feedback. And they said,
Yeah, we think, we think
we, we think you could,
you could be successful
at this so, but you need
a website. That was kind
(10:30):
of the main thing I took
away from it. So I spent
pretty much a year
getting stuff together,
getting my head around
it, doing some online
training and making a
website rubbish. It was,
but it was all of our
first websites. Mine
Unknown (10:48):
was terrible,
Katie Flamman (10:50):
but, but
during this time all
sorts of upheaval we had.
There was a big
bereavement in the
family. There was my
husband was made
redundant. And so what I
thought would take, you
know, eight weeks or
something. Took a full
year and and so in 2015
was when I had my first
(11:11):
voice over job. And I
just turned 40. And at
that time, I thought, I,
what am I doing? You
know, I can't. How can I
possibly think that I can
run a business? And
actually, do you know it
was a hobby, really, it
wasn't a business. And
(11:31):
what
Lea Turner (11:31):
were the
reactions from the people
around you that weren't
maybe in the acting
community, when you said,
I'm going to do
voiceovers? Well,
Katie Flamman (11:39):
it's
funny, because a lot of
people who do voiceovers
are actors, yeah, and
come from that
background. There aren't
so many who come from a
journalism background,
but there are some, and
some come from being
audio engineers. And then
they they narrate a few
things, and people go,
Oh, actually, you're
quite good. So, but, but
the vast majority are
actors. So it's
Lea Turner (12:00):
kind of like
a something that actors
do to make a bit of extra
money between jobs. Yeah,
it's not, not like a, I
am a voiceover artist.
That is my soul. Yes,
Katie Flamman (12:09):
a lot of
people do, a lot of
actors do both. I mean,
we, you know, we can kind
of talk about how video
games are a lot more
physical now, and mocap
and stuff, but, but
there's, there's voice
acting, and there's voice
over artistry. And a
voice over, I would say,
(12:30):
is perhaps, I mean, it's
all acting, because I'm
playing the voice of the
company, or I'm playing
the voice of the
employee, whatever. But
voice over, I would say
is more like your
training video, a brand
anthem for a company, a
an explainer about a
product or service. But
(12:50):
then that also goes into
things like museum guides
and aircraft
announcements.
Lea Turner (12:56):
I never
thought you don't think
about how for how
applicable what you do is
in so many scenarios.
Katie Flamman (13:01):
And now,
as the internet is
becoming cleverer and
cleverer and into
everything, soon, your
umbrella will talk to you
and say, oh, you know,
Leah, don't you're gonna
need me. The forecast
says in three hours, it's
gonna absolutely chuck it
down. That's
Lea Turner (13:15):
gonna be
great for my ADHD.
Katie Flamman (13:17):
Anything
again? Well, stuff will
talk to you, your fridge,
your fridge will say, oh,
when you go out later,
don't forget to top up
the oat milk, whatever it
is, because, because and,
and that will need a
voice.
Lea Turner (13:30):
Oh my gosh.
So, so AI is, is going to
create more jobs in that
respect, because they're
going to need people to
create those jobs,
Katie Flamman (13:38):
I think
so, yeah,
Lea Turner (13:39):
what
interested me when you
just said, just now, like
at 40, you felt like,
what am I doing? I can't
run a business. Why do
you think you felt like
that?
Katie Flamman (13:51):
Because
of, I mean, we kind of
touched on it before
losing that confidence.
And I'd always worked for
other companies. I'd
always worked for big
news organizations. So
ITN for a really long
time. B, Sky, B, they
were they dealt with all
I had to do was do my
job. Yeah, they dealt
(14:11):
with payroll, yeah,
exactly. Marketing, the
show, branding, all of
those things were not
something that I'd ever
even thought about or
really knew about. And I
No, I did English,
German, Latin and art.
Well, my A levels. I did
(14:32):
not do business or
Lea Turner (14:33):
I don't think
much you do at a level is
very applicable in the
business world these days
anyway. Is it true? So
much of what you learn is
you're winging it, but
you
Katie Flamman (14:41):
can do
business studies. There's
a lot more practical
stuff that people do,
they learn now, yeah, and
none of that was even in
my wheelhouse. I just
rocked up and and created
programs that people
wanted to watch. So when
I started doing voice.
Sofa. It was something
for me that was just for
(15:03):
me. And you said, What
did people think about
it? In the community, I
didn't really have a
community there was just
like me. And I recorded
some demos. I went back
to the place that had
done that, that I'd done
that one day with, and
recorded some demos. And
we had a big cupboard for
coats. And we didn't have
enough coats to fit this
(15:24):
massive cupboard, so one
half of a friend came
around for coffee, and I
said, we please. We
helped me turn the coat
cupboard into a recording
studio. And she was like,
Sorry, what so
resourceful, yeah. So we,
we took the rail down
that was that had the
coats hanging on it, and
we put it at the front,
and then we put a curtain
across the front, and I
(15:45):
bought a load of acoustic
foam tiles, similar to
what's in this lovely
studio, and stuck them on
the wall. And I couldn't
stand up in there because
it was I was just
literally in the
cupboarders, but it's
sort of Harry Potter and
and I bought a cheap
microphone and audio
interface as a bundle on
Amazon. Yeah, and the
(16:07):
cables ran out of the
cupboard and into the
hallway where I rigged
up. We'd got filing
cabinet in the hallway,
so I stuck a bit of MDF
on the top of that. And
that I had to go buy a
computer because I didn't
have a computer. That was
my first voiceover booth,
if you could call it
that. But the actual
sound policy was pretty
good. It sounded a little
(16:27):
bit boxy, but it was
okay. And I started
auditioning for things
there are, there are
websites called pay to
play, and you pay a fee,
and you upload your
demos, and you tell them
what your voice sounds
like, and then they send
you auditions for middle
aged British woman RP.
And I started
(16:48):
auditioning, and I
started booking work. I
was kind of like, oh my
god, somebody might aim
to do this, but I could
only record when either
the kids were asleep or
nobody would go in the
kitchen because it was
right next to the
cupboard if people went
up the stairs, it creaked
it. I mean, it was,
wasn't ideal. There
Lea Turner (17:07):
it goes to
show because I think
people assume you're
going to need loads of
money to start a
business. Now, not to
sugarcoat it, we're,
we're being real here.
You're, you're a husband
has a very good job and
supported the family
through the children so
you were able to not
work. So I'm not like
saying anybody can go out
(17:28):
and do this. Not
everybody's got a
cupboard under the stairs
that they can turn into a
podcast studio, but
you've used what you had,
and you had a voice, and
you did a one day course,
and you created a
makeshift studio, and it
probably wasn't a massive
amount of money that you
had outlay for all of
this. It really wasn't,
and you gave it a go, and
it's a good and that that
was the same for me when
(17:49):
I started my my original
business, my
transcription business, I
bought a transcription
pedal, because you use
your feet to start and
stop the audio with
transcription, so your
hands don't come off the
keyboard. 60 pounds on
eBay. And I had a second
hand laptop that I got
for free and a pair of
headphones, like an old
pair of headphones, yeah,
and I started my
business, don't you? And
(18:09):
I just went on HMRC and
registered a business for
free, and that was it.
And I went on Gumtree and
placed ads for free, free
ads. And that was, that
was how I got my first
clients. And people have
this. And I saw a thread
that was talking about
giving someone 100
pounds, Simon Squibb does
this thing on Tiktok
where he gives people
money to follow their
dreams and helps them to
(18:30):
start a business. And so
it's a lovely concept,
and he gets a lot of
pushback from people
saying, well, you can't
just start a business
with 100 pounds. It's
like, well, I did. I was
good at typing, and I
found secondhand
materials, and I placed a
free ad, and I just
started doing it. And you
can do it on LinkedIn,
right? You can start
building your presence on
LinkedIn for zero money,
or Facebook or Instagram
(18:50):
and,
Katie Flamman (18:51):
uh,
favors. So like you do a
thing for somebody, and
they'll do a thing for
you. Yeah? And, and, I
mean, my friends were
amazing, helping me sort
of set up and
encouragement and things
like that. But actually I
did when I, when I first
started, when I, when I
got to my first job, it
was through doing work
experience and working
for free and in voiceover
(19:13):
at the beginning. I did
start making money, and
it very quick. My outlay
of my basic equipment
very quickly paid for
itself, yeah, and then I
was able to scale. And
now I have a we had, we
had a building that had a
leaky roof and kind of
water pouring down the
side of it and stuff. So
the whole building got
refurbished. But, you
(19:34):
know, IKEA now do a mini
it's not exactly a booth,
but it's like a desk.
I've just, only just seen
it, a desk with a whole
kind of bubble thing that
comes around so you can
sit at your desk and
record. And that's so
clever. 500 pounds, and
my booth cost several
1000 pounds, and I love
(19:54):
it, but there's you can.
You can get acoustic
blankets. There are
things that would
Lea Turner (20:01):
do for now,
loads of things that
would do, yeah, and I
think you need to, if
you're going to start out
as a business owner, the
more resourceful you are,
the better you're going
to do in business in
general. Yeah, it's been
able to do things like
skill swap with people,
find solutions to things,
find a way to afford.
Things I used
Unknown (20:19):
to do when our
example, yeah, I used to
be super broke
Lea Turner (20:23):
when I was
first a parent, so I
would get credit cards to
be able to afford to go
on holiday, because I
wouldn't be able to
afford to save up, and if
I tried to put money
aside, inevitably,
something would happen,
and that money would get
used on some sort of
crisis that happened. So
I bike, I would get
credit cards that were
interest three free for
like, 24 months, and then
split that direct debit
(20:44):
that I needed, like the
holiday into 24 lots, cut
the credit card up, set
the direct debit up, and
never use the credit card
again so I could afford
to pay for it, and I
wouldn't get charged.
Resourceful, and that
resourcefulness the more
you can exercise that
even before you start a
business, you'll find
solutions to your
problems, and that's that
makes you feel a lot more
safe when you trust that
(21:05):
you'll find a way. Excuse
me for briefly
interrupting our guest,
but I need to tell you
about my business baby,
the HoLT. I started the
HoLT in June 2022 to
create a supportive place
where small business
owners, solopreneurs,
freelancers and side
hustlers could learn
essential business skills
at an affordable price
while coming together to
network and support each
other and our businesses.
(21:25):
Every month, members get
live Q and A's and
problem solving on tech,
sales and marketing, plus
four or more master
classes on skills such as
copywriting, finances,
sales, social media,
branding, mindset,
confidence, resilience,
graphic design,
automation, AI and so
much more. We also host
weekly community calls to
meet fellow members,
content creation hours
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(22:06):
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and we'd love for you to
join us. Now, back to our
guest that's
Katie Flamman (22:12):
safety is
really important, and
having that control,
because so I when I first
started, and I was
starting to put work and
things, and it kind of
grew. And at this point,
my husband was sort of
consulting, and he was
advised to start a
company, a limited
company, and he was doing
(22:33):
consulting, and we put my
voice over stuff through
as part of this, an arm
of this sort of creative
limited company, but I
had no idea what that
involved. I didn't keep
track of receipts. I
didn't, yeah, it was, it
was absolute shit show.
It really, I can relate.
(22:54):
Yeah. I
Lea Turner (22:55):
mean, even
now, my accountant's
constantly chasing me for
receipts I forgot to
keep. I'm
Katie Flamman (22:59):
much
better now I take photos
of them, and also, and I
now have somebody who
says, What's that for?
And where's the receipt
for that? And and quite
quickly that person says,
it lovely, lovely Sarah.
And actually, everyone
needs a Sarah in their
lives, I think. But at
the beginning, oh, it was
just, it was such
carnage, that first year
(23:20):
when we had to do
accounts, I was kind of
like, what? What do I
have to do? What
Lea Turner (23:26):
you just
don't realize, do you
like you say, when you're
working for a company,
you take it all for
granted because the
work's just there you
come and you do your
work, and then you go
home at the end of the
day, and yes, you might
be thinking about your
job. I'm not saying
employees. It doesn't, it
doesn't stress them out
when they're at home, but
it's there's such a
weight involved when it's
on your head, like, if
(23:47):
you don't do the work,
you don't get paid, the
rent doesn't get paid,
you get kicked out. What
if you don't get a
client? And not only are
you doing your client
work, which you forget,
and I see this with
business owners all the
time, when they're new,
they allocate Monday to
Friday to all of their
client work, but they
don't leave time for
sending in voices,
chasing invoices, doing
admin, managing their
(24:08):
emails, marketing the
business, having sales
calls. And you're like,
Oh, where am I fitting
this in
Katie Flamman (24:14):
my I mean,
I do a lot of recordings,
and actually the but the
recording is the tiniest
part of what I do. Then
there's the editing,
which, again, if it's a
big job, I now outsource,
which is a joy. Editing
is not my favorite, but I
do it a lot, because it's
usually easier if it's
(24:34):
not. I have ADHD and I
don't like long projects
that drag on and on. I
like short things I like
variety. So
Lea Turner (24:42):
instinct,
modification, exactly,
and
Katie Flamman (24:46):
the same
with news. You do it,
it's done. You go home,
you start again the next
day with a fresh thing.
So, so when I have longer
projects it, it actually,
really does hurt my
brain. I did it. I
recorded my. First
factual audiobook, kind
of this year, about
marine fuel delivery. I
(25:08):
know all about the
bunkering industry. Lear,
if you're interested, it
was so long, so long.
Thank goodness somebody
edited it for me. I've
forgotten what was
talking about. Sorry. But
so
Lea Turner (25:21):
you've been
doing this for 10 years
now, or nearly 10 years,
and I'm all right to say
that you're, you're
nearly 50 now, I am not
that you look a day over
40, not to tell anybody
that, okay, right? But
yes, but in that 10
years, like you've gone
from being and I'm not
going to say just a mum,
but internally, you felt
(25:41):
like I was just a mum for
10 years. Obviously,
incredibly valued work
that you're doing. You've
raised two beautiful
kids, but you do have
that like, oh, but I'm
not doing anything more
than that, and I should
be, and I want to be. And
you overcame this whole
I'm going to start
something new at 40. This
is quite scary, but I'm
going to do it anyway.
(26:02):
What would you say has
been the biggest change
for you? Because I see a
lot of women, and I was
35 when I totally pivoted
my business, and at 39
now, like, I'm going, Oh,
this is actually going
quite well. And I'm
almost excited for my 40
world because of what's
happening. Now, I'm like,
okay, 40 is going to be
fine. Like, this is going
to be this is going to be
great. I've got so much
to look forward to in the
(26:23):
next 10 years. But so
many people do feel like,
if they haven't chosen
their career by the time
they're 30, and they're
on this trajectory for
directorship or or multi
millionaire status with
their business, that
they're never going to do
it. And you're you're
walking talking, evidence
that actually you can
there are so many amazing
(26:43):
examples. You just have
to look around on
LinkedIn. For a lot of
people that are
restarting careers, going
back to uni in their 40s
and 50s and like, wow.
And I'm inspired by that
as somebody that didn't
find my, I suppose,
talent and my thing until
35 and you found it at
40. And now at 50,
(27:04):
you're, you're, you're a
name in your industry.
Now you're nominated for
for awards. You're doing
some incredibly
prestigious work that we
can't even talk about
some of the stuff because
you're so NDA up to the
eyeballs, but it's
impressive stuff that
you're doing. What's that
been like in terms of,
like, the success that
you've seen, how's that
(27:24):
impacted you in, like,
inside, but also your
life beyond work?
Katie Flamman (27:32):
So it's,
it's funny, because I, I
did it, as I've said, as
a sort of a hobby, and
one of the first jobs I
booked was for the
British Council in 2015
2016 I can't remember
which year, but it came
out. It took a while for
it to come out, and it
was to celebrate 400
years of Shakespeare. Oh,
wow. And I recorded a
whole series of
(27:53):
Shakespeare plays, but
kind of written for kids,
so in really simple
language, and I was the
narrator in half of them,
and I played all the
female characters. It was
so cool. It was just like
little cartoons and
created by this amazing
studio in the UK called
Slurpee studios. It was
brilliant. And it was
such a brilliant job. And
I said I heard this thing
(28:13):
in a podcast, a thing
called The Voice Arts
Awards and and I was kind
of like, well, I don't
know what that is, but
I'm going to enter. And
it was $100 to enter, and
I put in film I'd made
about the about
Shakespeare's life, what
I'd narrated this lovely
cartoon and and it got
nominated for a voice
(28:34):
Arts Award in 2016 in
Hollywood. Wow. And it's
like so at the time it
was, it was November 2016
and I was supposed to be
running the PTA bonfire
party. I was head of the
PTA at that time. What a
choice
Lea Turner (28:51):
to make
Hollywood or PTA bonfire.
And
Katie Flamman (28:54):
my husband
said to me, Are you sure
it's not a scam? I was
like, Well, I don't think
so. I think it's real.
But I said to the mums at
the PTA, now, look,
things happened. I don't
know if this is real, but
I think it is. And quite
like to go to Hollywood
instead of doing the
(29:15):
bonfire. What do you
reckon? And they were all
just like, for goodness
sake, go and, I mean, I
had the best time and I
didn't win, but they read
my name out in the Warner
Brothers Studios in
Holly, oh my God, was on
the red carpet. I've
actually been fortunate
enough to go several
times since, and I've
been a presenter there
and and I've won a voice
Arts Award now, and it's
(29:35):
just this amazing gold
statue thing. It's
Lea Turner (29:38):
just imagine
if you gone to the
bonfire instead. Well,
yes, but
Katie Flamman (29:42):
that in
that gave me the
confidence, yeah, that
was the first
Lea Turner (29:47):
big decision
where you chose me,
myself, yourself and your
future
Katie Flamman (29:52):
and
career. And, you know, I
batch cooked masses of
meals and labeled
everything. And you know,
my mum was on standby. To
because the kids were
quite small at this time,
and the amount of effort
and work that went into
me going to LA, yeah, for
five, six days. I mean,
(30:13):
the jet lag was
unbelievable, because I
went for the minimum
amount of time I could,
but it was the most alive
and energized I think I'd
ever felt in work, apart
from perhaps those times
when I'd been in a live
newsroom and some kind of
mega event was happening
(30:34):
and I was running the
show that was energizing
and exciting, but going
to all that way and just
being me, and not not my
children's mum or my
husband's wife or, you
know, my mother's
daughter or the cat's
Mum, I was just me, and
(30:54):
what having my own
business has given me Is
that feeling of being
totally my own boss
Lea Turner (31:02):
in all of
your own destiny, yeah,
Katie Flamman (31:06):
and you're
right. I mean, I have
been really lucky to work
with some kind of, you
know, big names,
Volkswagen American
Express, Google
Chromebook, all sorts of
brands have trusted me to
deliver their message,
but I would quite happily
record answer messages
(31:26):
for the, you know, the
butchers down the road as
well. It's, it's offering
a service and doing what
I'm good at, but feeling
like this is all mine.
Lea Turner (31:38):
I think it's,
it's such a powerful
feeling. I know I mean,
when I when I had the
transcription business, I
don't think I had that
feeling, because I was
very much struggling to
make ends meet at the end
of each month, and it was
a case of, like, am I
going to cover everything
this? And it I wasn't
energized, because I
didn't earn very much.
And I think when you're
when you're charging very
small amounts for what
you do, or it's a service
(31:58):
that you just don't get
paid that much for it can
be quite hard to find
that motivation. You
still do it because you
still need to pay the
rent, but you don't
really get excited by it.
And I wasn't passionate
about it, but it's quite
clear that you are
passionate about what you
do. And I became
passionate when I pivoted
and started doing the
LinkedIn training and the
community building and
(32:20):
genuinely helping people,
and I felt like I could
see the impact of the
help that I was giving on
a daily basis. I was
getting that instant
feedback from people
saying, oh my god, I
hadn't thought about
that. I've just tried
this, and it's worked,
and I've got this new
client, I've got this new
client, and I'm like,
yes, it's working. I'm so
happy for you here. Try
this as well. And I
needed that back and
forth, which I didn't
really get with the
(32:40):
clients and the typing
work, and that was what
spurred me forward
massively. But my I
completely understand,
like, the confidence that
it gives you when you
work with a client, and
you get happy clients
coming back to you,
saying, That was
brilliant, or they refer
you on to another job,
and you're like, I did
this. Nobody else did
(33:01):
this. This was all me. I
can't turn around. It's
like with your children.
You raise your children,
and someone says, Oh,
they're so polite.
They're real credit to
you. It lights you up.
And you get that same
feeling when you do
something in business and
someone says, Thank you
so much. That was
brilliant. We'd love to
have you back, or you did
an amazing job, or they
(33:22):
send you a gift or tip
you, or something like
that. You get that, Oh, I
did this, or me,
Katie Flamman (33:27):
or me, and
that brand that, whether
it's whether it's your
parenting or whether it's
your business, your brand
lives on. People talk
about you when you're not
there in a good way. And
and it's, it's really
precious to have that.
And I have sessions where
I'm where they book me
for an hour, and we're
done in 10 minutes,
(33:48):
because the first take is
exactly what they want.
We do a few changes of
the beginning and the
end, and the clients
trust that they're going
to get what they need.
Because I understand,
because I've done the
work in advance, I've
prepped the script, I've
asked the questions, I've
researched their business
so I know the feel I've
(34:10):
asked the right
questions, and actually,
what I've given them back
is not is 45 minutes,
which is super precious.
No one's upset about
exactly what they want
and and it's not a
question of, well, hang
on, I paid you for an
hour. You know, we we've
moved on from there to
Wow, is that value? That
is precisely what I
(34:30):
needed. Yeah, thank you
so much. We don't need
anything else. You're
amazing. And it's just,
it's glorious when they
say that.
Lea Turner (34:37):
I love this
conversation, because I
think the key that that's
come out from me, in
listening to you and and
it's really made me feel
validated as well, is
that, especially as
women, but, but generally
speaking, there isn't a
too old to start again.
And some people who might
be older than 40 are
sitting there going,
Yeah, but 40 snapping. 40
(34:57):
is very, very young. You
could start again. I. I'd
have started again at 40,
but now I'm 55 and I
wouldn't, but you'd,
you'd now at nearly 50,
you would start again,
right? If you definitely,
and I've got other plans
for other things, and
that's, that's the
beautiful thing, because
I've known you now for
what, four ish years,
since we worked together
initially, and we, we
sort of became friendly,
(35:18):
and I've seen your
confidence grow over the
last four years, I've
seen you change. I've
seen you putting yourself
out there more. I've seen
your content develop
online, and you've become
more and more Katie and
confidently so and
bringing your own unique
style to everything that
you do. And it's
beautiful to watch. It
feels like when you're
(35:38):
watching someone kind of
come out of like a
butterfly emerging from a
chrysalis. Yeah. And I
feel like, when you start
a business, you
definitely feel like you
are in this little
chrysalis, and it's a
very scary world. Is it
going to hurt me when I
come out of it? Are
people going to judge me?
Are people going to think
I'm, I'm rubbish at this,
because I'm, I'm just
starting, and I'm, I'm a
total newbie, and I don't
know what I'm doing, but
actually, the vast
(35:59):
majority of people on
social media included,
they're not judging you
because they remember
being there, and
actually, the vast
majority are there to
give you a leg up,
because we all know what
it was like, and that's
one of the reasons we
have the community right.
Like building the whole
community was creating
that safe space for
people, where we are all
intense on lifting one
another up and not
(36:20):
judging the city
questions. There aren't
any city questions. And
it's just beautiful to
see that for someone who
did start fresh in a
completely new career
that had ties to the old
one, but a totally new
career at 40 years old
with two kids at home
still and you found the
thing that you excel at
(36:42):
that you've doubled down
on, stayed passionate
about, and like, I'm
genuinely excited to see
what happens for you over
the next 10 years,
because it does feel like
this was the warm up.
Katie Flamman (36:54):
Yeah,
Lea Turner (36:54):
does that
feel like that to you? I
Katie Flamman (36:56):
think, I
think that's, I think
that's, that's true. And
people what you were
saying about no stupid
questions and safe space
and stuff that's super
important, and it's been
a journey. You know, yes,
it's been 10 years which
which it's it's escalated
year on year. It's got
bigger and faster and
more and and I've won
(37:18):
more awards, and I've had
bigger, better clients,
and people have come back
to me and recommended me
and all of that, and
suddenly it kind of goes
exponentially, and I'm
able to recommend other
voices if my voice isn't
right, and there's lots
of other other services
that are kind of
branching out from that
initial thing. And yes,
it's it's been a journey.
(37:39):
And if I was to look back
at, kind of 10 years ago
me in the coat cupboard
and just think, Whoa,
you've come a long way,
but, but you're right. It
does feel like a warm up
and and sort of as my
kids got bigger, and I
could leave them behind,
I could go and really try
and develop my presenting
career and get back on
camera and and leave the
(38:00):
house, because when I'm
working from from my
studio, I'm literally
working from home and
able to to pause my
recording go make
somebody some dinner, or
go pick them up from the
bus stop or whatever it
is. But now they can
almost drive so amazing.
As my family is becoming
more independent, my
(38:21):
career is as well. And,
and it's a kind of mutual
growth. Everybody's
growing. Everybody's
exploring new things and
developing new passions.
And, and that sort of
solid foundation is, of
course, still there. But,
(38:41):
I mean, I would say you
are never, ever too old
to explore and try
something new and and
just don't be scared
because you can't do it
all at the beginning.
Lea Turner (38:52):
No, it's got
to be consistent
improvement, day on day,
right? And it's not
always going to be a
forward motion. Sometimes
we have to take a few
steps back absolutely and
ready to go forward
again. I think you're a
testament to your
patience and consistency
within your industry and
learning your craft to a
really high level and and
maintaining that passion.
I think it's just, it's a
(39:12):
really great message to
send to people that it
doesn't matter if you've
never done it before, it
doesn't matter what age
you are, if you want to
start something new try,
because what's for me, I
always think about, like,
Would I regret? What am I
going to regret more
trying and failing or not
trying? And I'm like, I
would always, I always
(39:32):
know that I would be on
my deathbed going, I
really should have given
that a go, not Oh, I gave
it a go and didn't work
out. Like, I'm always
proud of myself for
trying, and obviously you
tried and made a huge
success. So I'm very
happy to see it, and I'm
excited to see what
happens over the next 10
years for you, if you
have me around that long
Well, let's
Katie Flamman (39:50):
do another
podcast episode, shall
we?
Lea Turner (39:56):
Thank you so
much for coming on the
podcast, Katie, and it's.
Been a pleasure to chat
to you, and this one's
been, once again, very
well behaved, I know,
just occasionally panting
down the microphone.
Thank
Katie Flamman (40:07):
you for
having me. It's been a
real joy chatting with
you. Leah,
Lea Turner (40:10):
always fun
talking. Thank you.
Welcome before you go, I
just need to tell you
about our brilliant
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It was
(00:00):
November 2016 and I was
supposed to be running
the PTA bonfire party. I
batch cooked masses of
meals and labeled
everything. And, you
know, my mum was on
standby to because the
kids were quite small at
this time, and the amount
of effort and work that
went into me going to LA
Yeah, for five six days,
(00:24):
but it was the most alive
and energized I think I'd
ever felt in work. You
Lea Turner (00:44):
Katie
Flamman, welcome along to
the Holt Survival Guide
for Small Businesses.
Thank you so much for
traveling all the way up
to Manchester to see us
before we get into a
conversation. I'd love to
hear a little bit about
who you are, where you've
been, and what led you to
hear,
Katie Flamman (01:01):
okay,
well, I've had a kind of
compartmentalized career,
but what I do right now
is voiceovers and
presenting in person and
kind of behind the scenes
and live event announcing
and basically talking for
a living, Sometimes on
camera, sometimes not.
And before that, I Well,
(01:23):
I still am a mum, but
before I did voiceovers,
I've been voice over ring
for 10 years. Before
that, I was a mum for 10
years, and did all kinds
of random jobs as stay at
home mums do in that
time, and before that, I
worked in television news
(01:44):
as a multi skilled do all
kinds of things person.
So I started out as a
multi skilled producer, I
was a reporter, a news
reader, and then I became
an executive producer and
a program editor, kind of
bossing everybody else
around and running news
programs, and I stopped
doing that when I had had
(02:04):
my babies. So yeah, I've
done quite a few things.
So
Lea Turner (02:08):
if you sound
or look slightly
familiar, people will
understand why. I
definitely felt like that
when I first encountered
you and we first worked
together, I was like, you
do have a very familiar
voice, but I know that
there will be things we
might have heard you on,
but, but sometimes it's
just the fact that you've
got quite a traditional
sounding, beautiful
accent. It's,
Katie Flamman (02:28):
it's very
interesting, because the
trend now, particularly
in the UK, is for
regional voices real, if
you like voices. Oh, so
Lea Turner (02:37):
your voice
isn't real.
Katie Flamman (02:38):
My what?
My voice isn't my voice
isn't kind of cool or or
normal, but my you do
Lea Turner (02:47):
sound like a
news reader. Yeah, yeah,
very much.
Katie Flamman (02:50):
This voice
is very popular in Europe
and in America because,
actually, they don't want
regional accents. They
want something that's
clear, yeah, and easy to
understand, and it's
called RP received
pronunciation. Yeah, used
to be the Queen's
English. I guess it's the
King's English now, but
yeah, so, so in the UK, I
(03:12):
work a lot on training
videos and internal
company explainers,
particularly where they
have large client bases
or employee bases, who
are all over the world,
right? Because they want
a clear, kind of
unaccented voice, yeah?
So, yeah, it's funny how
when voiceover trends go
really so
Lea Turner (03:30):
I'm really
interested, and I'm sure
you get asked it all the
time, but how on earth do
you get into something
like voiceover works?
Because this whole, this
whole podcast, is focused
on people who are
thinking about setting up
small business, or who
already run a small
business, and what we can
offer to help them. And
voiceover seems like
quite a unique and
unusual thing to suddenly
(03:51):
go, hey, I can do this.
There must have been a
point where someone said,
well, you'd be really
good at this. Well,
Katie Flamman (03:56):
I it kind
of it joins the dots a
lot for me. So I did an
English degree at
university, and I did
loads of acting, loved
acting and singing and
performing and stuff like
that at uni, but I didn't
know what to do with my
life. I mean, you know,
English degree could be
anything, and I did
(04:17):
University radio and
stuff like that, but I
still wasn't really sure
where to go, so I ended
up doing a postgraduate
diploma in broadcast
journalism and and I went
into into the world of
news. I wasn't I meant to
anyone. I wasn't really
interested in current
affairs. I had to kind of
(04:37):
learn I was watching it,
but, but I, I loved the
fact that it was really
varied. It gave me so
much variety,
particularly working on
Channel Five news, where
I was like, doing all the
things. And my very first
job was with channel one
television, which was
like local news for
London, right? And I
zipped around London in a
(04:58):
little car they wanted me
to ride. Moped, but I was
just like, No.
Lea Turner (05:02):
I think I
would have said no to
that one. And
Katie Flamman (05:05):
I filmed
all the things and filmed
or interviewed all the
people, and then I turned
the camera around and
filmed myself, and then
went back and we edited
it, and they had me news
reading and all sorts of
things. So it was great
grounding for when I went
to Channel Five. Sorry,
this is a long answer for
how did you get into
voiceover? But that doing
that I was presenting, I
was reporting, I was
using my voice. But then
(05:27):
when I went into news,
and then when I became
pregnant with my first
child, news is really
24/7, and so are babies,
and I didn't want to
share the baby, yeah,
with somebody else. And
so we moved out of London
and into the countryside,
(05:48):
and I kind of almost like
drew a hard, hard line
under that part of my
life. And I did, did news
for almost 10 years, and
then I was a stay at home
mum for 10 years, and
change your pace, isn't
it? It's really
different. And I did lots
of things. I had I went a
(06:08):
bit mad.
Lea Turner (06:10):
I think
that's pretty relatable,
though. I think you know,
to parents in general,
but more specifically
mums, there is a real
period of often feeling
like you've lost yourself
to motherhood, and your
life becomes so consumed
by what you need to do
for others and all these
people depending on you,
that you do feel like you
lose yourself. And it can
feel like, well, this is
(06:31):
the end of my career as
it seems, yeah, I don't
know how I'm ever going
to go back. The world
changes in a decade. How
far forward does
technology and life and
people move, and you go,
God, how am I ever going
to go back to well?
Katie Flamman (06:44):
And I had
gone from being an
executive producer I was
at Sky News. By then,
they were making the news
for Channel Five, and I'd
worked on massive stories
like September the 11th
and shuttle crashes and
stuff. And I went from
that to cleaning sick off
of various people,
including myself,
multiple times a day, and
(07:04):
I was very good at
cleaning up sick,
actually. But it's not,
it's such an enormous
change of pace. And
you're right, you do very
quickly feel you lose
your confidence, you lose
your ability to it's not
you don't lose self
respect, but kind of, as
(07:25):
a professional person,
you kind of do lose that.
And I was, you know, it's
Lea Turner (07:31):
hard when
you're not like out
earning money and feeling
like you're materially
contributing, even though
you clearly are, we are
we are contributing to a
household by raising
children. We're
contributing to society
by raising children, but
we don't fit for some
reason, and maybe it's
society in general, makes
us feel like we should be
doing everything we you
know, we get told off for
being stay at home mums
(07:52):
because we're lazy, and
if we go to work, we're
told we're abandoning our
children who can't win.
It's an absolute. And
you're just, you're just
there in the middle,
going, okay, but I like,
I feel like I should be
working and earning my
own money and supporting
myself. And yet, there is
that pull to be at home
with your children. We
can't win. And it's, you
know, the curse of being
I'm not saying men don't
(08:13):
feel that parental guilt,
but there's certainly a
lot less pressure for men
to be everything well,
Katie Flamman (08:19):
and for
me, also, I came out of
of newsrooms which were a
very aggressive, and not
not in a sort of bullying
way, but in a you have to
be on it and and you need
to speak up, and you need
to be all over all the
things. And if you took a
(08:40):
day off, you would, and I
would obsessively read
all the papers and watch
everybody else's news
program. So when I went
back in, I wasn't
suggesting something,
that somebody would go,
Oh, channel four did that
yesterday. You know?
Yeah, it all moves so
quickly and and so from a
from a point of view of
being out of that
(09:01):
environment for 10 years.
Like, you know, if you
take your eye off the
ball from you feel like
an idiot. And so you
didn't feel like you
could go back. I didn't,
and I could have done
local news, but I also,
having done all of the
massive national stories,
was kind of like, I don't
think I want to do, yeah,
or, you know, sheep on
(09:21):
the loose. So voiceover
came up. So voiceover
came up. So I decided I
wanted something for me.
And at this time, my
husband was working kind
of crazy hours, traveling
a lot. He was living
abroad some of the time,
so I was really full on,
in charge of the
children, and they were
(09:43):
eight and 10, and I
thought, I really need
something for me. And my
friend, Nigel, who I was
at university with, was
an actor and was doing
voiceover. And I said,
Nigel, do you think I
could do voiceover? And
he said, Well, darling,
there are plenty of
people that sound like
you, and there. Very
successful you could try.
So it was like, Okay,
Lea Turner (10:06):
I love to say
that. Well, I like very
generic
Katie Flamman (10:10):
sounding.
Yeah, there's loads of
people that sound like
you. So the market is
saturated, essentially,
is what he said. But I
did a one day
introduction to voiceover
course in London, and I
got some really good
feedback. And they said,
Yeah, we think, we think
we, we think you could,
you could be successful
at this so, but you need
a website. That was kind
(10:30):
of the main thing I took
away from it. So I spent
pretty much a year
getting stuff together,
getting my head around
it, doing some online
training and making a
website rubbish. It was,
but it was all of our
first websites. Mine
Unknown (10:48):
was terrible,
Katie Flamman (10:50):
but, but
during this time all
sorts of upheaval we had.
There was a big
bereavement in the
family. There was my
husband was made
redundant. And so what I
thought would take, you
know, eight weeks or
something. Took a full
year and and so in 2015
was when I had my first
(11:11):
voice over job. And I
just turned 40. And at
that time, I thought, I,
what am I doing? You
know, I can't. How can I
possibly think that I can
run a business? And
actually, do you know it
was a hobby, really, it
wasn't a business. And
(11:31):
what
Lea Turner (11:31):
were the
reactions from the people
around you that weren't
maybe in the acting
community, when you said,
I'm going to do
voiceovers? Well,
Katie Flamman (11:39):
it's
funny, because a lot of
people who do voiceovers
are actors, yeah, and
come from that
background. There aren't
so many who come from a
journalism background,
but there are some, and
some come from being
audio engineers. And then
they they narrate a few
things, and people go,
Oh, actually, you're
quite good. So, but, but
the vast majority are
actors. So it's
Lea Turner (12:00):
kind of like
a something that actors
do to make a bit of extra
money between jobs. Yeah,
it's not, not like a, I
am a voiceover artist.
That is my soul. Yes,
Katie Flamman (12:09):
a lot of
people do, a lot of
actors do both. I mean,
we, you know, we can kind
of talk about how video
games are a lot more
physical now, and mocap
and stuff, but, but
there's, there's voice
acting, and there's voice
over artistry. And a
voice over, I would say,
(12:30):
is perhaps, I mean, it's
all acting, because I'm
playing the voice of the
company, or I'm playing
the voice of the
employee, whatever. But
voice over, I would say
is more like your
training video, a brand
anthem for a company, a
an explainer about a
product or service. But
(12:50):
then that also goes into
things like museum guides
and aircraft
announcements.
Lea Turner (12:56):
I never
thought you don't think
about how for how
applicable what you do is
in so many scenarios.
Katie Flamman (13:01):
And now,
as the internet is
becoming cleverer and
cleverer and into
everything, soon, your
umbrella will talk to you
and say, oh, you know,
Leah, don't you're gonna
need me. The forecast
says in three hours, it's
gonna absolutely chuck it
down. That's
Lea Turner (13:15):
gonna be
great for my ADHD.
Katie Flamman (13:17):
Anything
again? Well, stuff will
talk to you, your fridge,
your fridge will say, oh,
when you go out later,
don't forget to top up
the oat milk, whatever it
is, because, because and,
and that will need a
voice.
Lea Turner (13:30):
Oh my gosh.
So, so AI is, is going to
create more jobs in that
respect, because they're
going to need people to
create those jobs,
Katie Flamman (13:38):
I think
so, yeah,
Lea Turner (13:39):
what
interested me when you
just said, just now, like
at 40, you felt like,
what am I doing? I can't
run a business. Why do
you think you felt like
that?
Katie Flamman (13:51):
Because
of, I mean, we kind of
touched on it before
losing that confidence.
And I'd always worked for
other companies. I'd
always worked for big
news organizations. So
ITN for a really long
time. B, Sky, B, they
were they dealt with all
I had to do was do my
job. Yeah, they dealt
(14:11):
with payroll, yeah,
exactly. Marketing, the
show, branding, all of
those things were not
something that I'd ever
even thought about or
really knew about. And I
No, I did English,
German, Latin and art.
Well, my A levels. I did
(14:32):
not do business or
Lea Turner (14:33):
I don't think
much you do at a level is
very applicable in the
business world these days
anyway. Is it true? So
much of what you learn is
you're winging it, but
you
Katie Flamman (14:41):
can do
business studies. There's
a lot more practical
stuff that people do,
they learn now, yeah, and
none of that was even in
my wheelhouse. I just
rocked up and and created
programs that people
wanted to watch. So when
I started doing voice.
Sofa. It was something
for me that was just for
(15:03):
me. And you said, What
did people think about
it? In the community, I
didn't really have a
community there was just
like me. And I recorded
some demos. I went back
to the place that had
done that, that I'd done
that one day with, and
recorded some demos. And
we had a big cupboard for
coats. And we didn't have
enough coats to fit this
(15:24):
massive cupboard, so one
half of a friend came
around for coffee, and I
said, we please. We
helped me turn the coat
cupboard into a recording
studio. And she was like,
Sorry, what so
resourceful, yeah. So we,
we took the rail down
that was that had the
coats hanging on it, and
we put it at the front,
and then we put a curtain
across the front, and I
(15:45):
bought a load of acoustic
foam tiles, similar to
what's in this lovely
studio, and stuck them on
the wall. And I couldn't
stand up in there because
it was I was just
literally in the
cupboarders, but it's
sort of Harry Potter and
and I bought a cheap
microphone and audio
interface as a bundle on
Amazon. Yeah, and the
(16:07):
cables ran out of the
cupboard and into the
hallway where I rigged
up. We'd got filing
cabinet in the hallway,
so I stuck a bit of MDF
on the top of that. And
that I had to go buy a
computer because I didn't
have a computer. That was
my first voiceover booth,
if you could call it
that. But the actual
sound policy was pretty
good. It sounded a little
(16:27):
bit boxy, but it was
okay. And I started
auditioning for things
there are, there are
websites called pay to
play, and you pay a fee,
and you upload your
demos, and you tell them
what your voice sounds
like, and then they send
you auditions for middle
aged British woman RP.
And I started
(16:48):
auditioning, and I
started booking work. I
was kind of like, oh my
god, somebody might aim
to do this, but I could
only record when either
the kids were asleep or
nobody would go in the
kitchen because it was
right next to the
cupboard if people went
up the stairs, it creaked
it. I mean, it was,
wasn't ideal. There
Lea Turner (17:07):
it goes to
show because I think
people assume you're
going to need loads of
money to start a
business. Now, not to
sugarcoat it, we're,
we're being real here.
You're, you're a husband
has a very good job and
supported the family
through the children so
you were able to not
work. So I'm not like
saying anybody can go out
(17:28):
and do this. Not
everybody's got a
cupboard under the stairs
that they can turn into a
podcast studio, but
you've used what you had,
and you had a voice, and
you did a one day course,
and you created a
makeshift studio, and it
probably wasn't a massive
amount of money that you
had outlay for all of
this. It really wasn't,
and you gave it a go, and
it's a good and that that
was the same for me when
(17:49):
I started my my original
business, my
transcription business, I
bought a transcription
pedal, because you use
your feet to start and
stop the audio with
transcription, so your
hands don't come off the
keyboard. 60 pounds on
eBay. And I had a second
hand laptop that I got
for free and a pair of
headphones, like an old
pair of headphones, yeah,
and I started my
business, don't you? And
(18:09):
I just went on HMRC and
registered a business for
free, and that was it.
And I went on Gumtree and
placed ads for free, free
ads. And that was, that
was how I got my first
clients. And people have
this. And I saw a thread
that was talking about
giving someone 100
pounds, Simon Squibb does
this thing on Tiktok
where he gives people
money to follow their
dreams and helps them to
(18:30):
start a business. And so
it's a lovely concept,
and he gets a lot of
pushback from people
saying, well, you can't
just start a business
with 100 pounds. It's
like, well, I did. I was
good at typing, and I
found secondhand
materials, and I placed a
free ad, and I just
started doing it. And you
can do it on LinkedIn,
right? You can start
building your presence on
LinkedIn for zero money,
or Facebook or Instagram
(18:50):
and,
Katie Flamman (18:51):
uh,
favors. So like you do a
thing for somebody, and
they'll do a thing for
you. Yeah? And, and, I
mean, my friends were
amazing, helping me sort
of set up and
encouragement and things
like that. But actually I
did when I, when I first
started, when I, when I
got to my first job, it
was through doing work
experience and working
for free and in voiceover
(19:13):
at the beginning. I did
start making money, and
it very quick. My outlay
of my basic equipment
very quickly paid for
itself, yeah, and then I
was able to scale. And
now I have a we had, we
had a building that had a
leaky roof and kind of
water pouring down the
side of it and stuff. So
the whole building got
refurbished. But, you
(19:34):
know, IKEA now do a mini
it's not exactly a booth,
but it's like a desk.
I've just, only just seen
it, a desk with a whole
kind of bubble thing that
comes around so you can
sit at your desk and
record. And that's so
clever. 500 pounds, and
my booth cost several
1000 pounds, and I love
(19:54):
it, but there's you can.
You can get acoustic
blankets. There are
things that would
Lea Turner (20:01):
do for now,
loads of things that
would do, yeah, and I
think you need to, if
you're going to start out
as a business owner, the
more resourceful you are,
the better you're going
to do in business in
general. Yeah, it's been
able to do things like
skill swap with people,
find solutions to things,
find a way to afford.
Things I used
Unknown (20:19):
to do when our
example, yeah, I used to
be super broke
Lea Turner (20:23):
when I was
first a parent, so I
would get credit cards to
be able to afford to go
on holiday, because I
wouldn't be able to
afford to save up, and if
I tried to put money
aside, inevitably,
something would happen,
and that money would get
used on some sort of
crisis that happened. So
I bike, I would get
credit cards that were
interest three free for
like, 24 months, and then
split that direct debit
(20:44):
that I needed, like the
holiday into 24 lots, cut
the credit card up, set
the direct debit up, and
never use the credit card
again so I could afford
to pay for it, and I
wouldn't get charged.
Resourceful, and that
resourcefulness the more
you can exercise that
even before you start a
business, you'll find
solutions to your
problems, and that's that
makes you feel a lot more
safe when you trust that
(21:05):
you'll find a way. Excuse
me for briefly
interrupting our guest,
but I need to tell you
about my business baby,
the HoLT. I started the
HoLT in June 2022 to
create a supportive place
where small business
owners, solopreneurs,
freelancers and side
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essential business skills
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while coming together to
network and support each
other and our businesses.
(21:25):
Every month, members get
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four or more master
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(21:46):
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the waiting list. Now,
(22:06):
we're opening again soon,
and we'd love for you to
join us. Now, back to our
guest that's
Katie Flamman (22:12):
safety is
really important, and
having that control,
because so I when I first
started, and I was
starting to put work and
things, and it kind of
grew. And at this point,
my husband was sort of
consulting, and he was
advised to start a
company, a limited
company, and he was doing
(22:33):
consulting, and we put my
voice over stuff through
as part of this, an arm
of this sort of creative
limited company, but I
had no idea what that
involved. I didn't keep
track of receipts. I
didn't, yeah, it was, it
was absolute shit show.
It really, I can relate.
(22:54):
Yeah. I
Lea Turner (22:55):
mean, even
now, my accountant's
constantly chasing me for
receipts I forgot to
keep. I'm
Katie Flamman (22:59):
much
better now I take photos
of them, and also, and I
now have somebody who
says, What's that for?
And where's the receipt
for that? And and quite
quickly that person says,
it lovely, lovely Sarah.
And actually, everyone
needs a Sarah in their
lives, I think. But at
the beginning, oh, it was
just, it was such
carnage, that first year
(23:20):
when we had to do
accounts, I was kind of
like, what? What do I
have to do? What
Lea Turner (23:26):
you just
don't realize, do you
like you say, when you're
working for a company,
you take it all for
granted because the
work's just there you
come and you do your
work, and then you go
home at the end of the
day, and yes, you might
be thinking about your
job. I'm not saying
employees. It doesn't, it
doesn't stress them out
when they're at home, but
it's there's such a
weight involved when it's
on your head, like, if
(23:47):
you don't do the work,
you don't get paid, the
rent doesn't get paid,
you get kicked out. What
if you don't get a
client? And not only are
you doing your client
work, which you forget,
and I see this with
business owners all the
time, when they're new,
they allocate Monday to
Friday to all of their
client work, but they
don't leave time for
sending in voices,
chasing invoices, doing
admin, managing their
(24:08):
emails, marketing the
business, having sales
calls. And you're like,
Oh, where am I fitting
this in
Katie Flamman (24:14):
my I mean,
I do a lot of recordings,
and actually the but the
recording is the tiniest
part of what I do. Then
there's the editing,
which, again, if it's a
big job, I now outsource,
which is a joy. Editing
is not my favorite, but I
do it a lot, because it's
usually easier if it's
(24:34):
not. I have ADHD and I
don't like long projects
that drag on and on. I
like short things I like
variety. So
Lea Turner (24:42):
instinct,
modification, exactly,
and
Katie Flamman (24:46):
the same
with news. You do it,
it's done. You go home,
you start again the next
day with a fresh thing.
So, so when I have longer
projects it, it actually,
really does hurt my
brain. I did it. I
recorded my. First
factual audiobook, kind
of this year, about
marine fuel delivery. I
(25:08):
know all about the
bunkering industry. Lear,
if you're interested, it
was so long, so long.
Thank goodness somebody
edited it for me. I've
forgotten what was
talking about. Sorry. But
so
Lea Turner (25:21):
you've been
doing this for 10 years
now, or nearly 10 years,
and I'm all right to say
that you're, you're
nearly 50 now, I am not
that you look a day over
40, not to tell anybody
that, okay, right? But
yes, but in that 10
years, like you've gone
from being and I'm not
going to say just a mum,
but internally, you felt
(25:41):
like I was just a mum for
10 years. Obviously,
incredibly valued work
that you're doing. You've
raised two beautiful
kids, but you do have
that like, oh, but I'm
not doing anything more
than that, and I should
be, and I want to be. And
you overcame this whole
I'm going to start
something new at 40. This
is quite scary, but I'm
going to do it anyway.
(26:02):
What would you say has
been the biggest change
for you? Because I see a
lot of women, and I was
35 when I totally pivoted
my business, and at 39
now, like, I'm going, Oh,
this is actually going
quite well. And I'm
almost excited for my 40
world because of what's
happening. Now, I'm like,
okay, 40 is going to be
fine. Like, this is going
to be this is going to be
great. I've got so much
to look forward to in the
(26:23):
next 10 years. But so
many people do feel like,
if they haven't chosen
their career by the time
they're 30, and they're
on this trajectory for
directorship or or multi
millionaire status with
their business, that
they're never going to do
it. And you're you're
walking talking, evidence
that actually you can
there are so many amazing
(26:43):
examples. You just have
to look around on
LinkedIn. For a lot of
people that are
restarting careers, going
back to uni in their 40s
and 50s and like, wow.
And I'm inspired by that
as somebody that didn't
find my, I suppose,
talent and my thing until
35 and you found it at
40. And now at 50,
(27:04):
you're, you're, you're a
name in your industry.
Now you're nominated for
for awards. You're doing
some incredibly
prestigious work that we
can't even talk about
some of the stuff because
you're so NDA up to the
eyeballs, but it's
impressive stuff that
you're doing. What's that
been like in terms of,
like, the success that
you've seen, how's that
(27:24):
impacted you in, like,
inside, but also your
life beyond work?
Katie Flamman (27:32):
So it's,
it's funny, because I, I
did it, as I've said, as
a sort of a hobby, and
one of the first jobs I
booked was for the
British Council in 2015
2016 I can't remember
which year, but it came
out. It took a while for
it to come out, and it
was to celebrate 400
years of Shakespeare. Oh,
wow. And I recorded a
whole series of
(27:53):
Shakespeare plays, but
kind of written for kids,
so in really simple
language, and I was the
narrator in half of them,
and I played all the
female characters. It was
so cool. It was just like
little cartoons and
created by this amazing
studio in the UK called
Slurpee studios. It was
brilliant. And it was
such a brilliant job. And
I said I heard this thing
(28:13):
in a podcast, a thing
called The Voice Arts
Awards and and I was kind
of like, well, I don't
know what that is, but
I'm going to enter. And
it was $100 to enter, and
I put in film I'd made
about the about
Shakespeare's life, what
I'd narrated this lovely
cartoon and and it got
nominated for a voice
(28:34):
Arts Award in 2016 in
Hollywood. Wow. And it's
like so at the time it
was, it was November 2016
and I was supposed to be
running the PTA bonfire
party. I was head of the
PTA at that time. What a
choice
Lea Turner (28:51):
to make
Hollywood or PTA bonfire.
And
Katie Flamman (28:54):
my husband
said to me, Are you sure
it's not a scam? I was
like, Well, I don't think
so. I think it's real.
But I said to the mums at
the PTA, now, look,
things happened. I don't
know if this is real, but
I think it is. And quite
like to go to Hollywood
instead of doing the
(29:15):
bonfire. What do you
reckon? And they were all
just like, for goodness
sake, go and, I mean, I
had the best time and I
didn't win, but they read
my name out in the Warner
Brothers Studios in
Holly, oh my God, was on
the red carpet. I've
actually been fortunate
enough to go several
times since, and I've
been a presenter there
and and I've won a voice
Arts Award now, and it's
(29:35):
just this amazing gold
statue thing. It's
Lea Turner (29:38):
just imagine
if you gone to the
bonfire instead. Well,
yes, but
Katie Flamman (29:42):
that in
that gave me the
confidence, yeah, that
was the first
Lea Turner (29:47):
big decision
where you chose me,
myself, yourself and your
future
Katie Flamman (29:52):
and
career. And, you know, I
batch cooked masses of
meals and labeled
everything. And you know,
my mum was on standby. To
because the kids were
quite small at this time,
and the amount of effort
and work that went into
me going to LA, yeah, for
five, six days. I mean,
(30:13):
the jet lag was
unbelievable, because I
went for the minimum
amount of time I could,
but it was the most alive
and energized I think I'd
ever felt in work, apart
from perhaps those times
when I'd been in a live
newsroom and some kind of
mega event was happening
(30:34):
and I was running the
show that was energizing
and exciting, but going
to all that way and just
being me, and not not my
children's mum or my
husband's wife or, you
know, my mother's
daughter or the cat's
Mum, I was just me, and
(30:54):
what having my own
business has given me Is
that feeling of being
totally my own boss
Lea Turner (31:02):
in all of
your own destiny, yeah,
Katie Flamman (31:06):
and you're
right. I mean, I have
been really lucky to work
with some kind of, you
know, big names,
Volkswagen American
Express, Google
Chromebook, all sorts of
brands have trusted me to
deliver their message,
but I would quite happily
record answer messages
(31:26):
for the, you know, the
butchers down the road as
well. It's, it's offering
a service and doing what
I'm good at, but feeling
like this is all mine.
Lea Turner (31:38):
I think it's,
it's such a powerful
feeling. I know I mean,
when I when I had the
transcription business, I
don't think I had that
feeling, because I was
very much struggling to
make ends meet at the end
of each month, and it was
a case of, like, am I
going to cover everything
this? And it I wasn't
energized, because I
didn't earn very much.
And I think when you're
when you're charging very
small amounts for what
you do, or it's a service
(31:58):
that you just don't get
paid that much for it can
be quite hard to find
that motivation. You
still do it because you
still need to pay the
rent, but you don't
really get excited by it.
And I wasn't passionate
about it, but it's quite
clear that you are
passionate about what you
do. And I became
passionate when I pivoted
and started doing the
LinkedIn training and the
community building and
(32:20):
genuinely helping people,
and I felt like I could
see the impact of the
help that I was giving on
a daily basis. I was
getting that instant
feedback from people
saying, oh my god, I
hadn't thought about
that. I've just tried
this, and it's worked,
and I've got this new
client, I've got this new
client, and I'm like,
yes, it's working. I'm so
happy for you here. Try
this as well. And I
needed that back and
forth, which I didn't
really get with the
(32:40):
clients and the typing
work, and that was what
spurred me forward
massively. But my I
completely understand,
like, the confidence that
it gives you when you
work with a client, and
you get happy clients
coming back to you,
saying, That was
brilliant, or they refer
you on to another job,
and you're like, I did
this. Nobody else did
(33:01):
this. This was all me. I
can't turn around. It's
like with your children.
You raise your children,
and someone says, Oh,
they're so polite.
They're real credit to
you. It lights you up.
And you get that same
feeling when you do
something in business and
someone says, Thank you
so much. That was
brilliant. We'd love to
have you back, or you did
an amazing job, or they
(33:22):
send you a gift or tip
you, or something like
that. You get that, Oh, I
did this, or me,
Katie Flamman (33:27):
or me, and
that brand that, whether
it's whether it's your
parenting or whether it's
your business, your brand
lives on. People talk
about you when you're not
there in a good way. And
and it's, it's really
precious to have that.
And I have sessions where
I'm where they book me
for an hour, and we're
done in 10 minutes,
(33:48):
because the first take is
exactly what they want.
We do a few changes of
the beginning and the
end, and the clients
trust that they're going
to get what they need.
Because I understand,
because I've done the
work in advance, I've
prepped the script, I've
asked the questions, I've
researched their business
so I know the feel I've
(34:10):
asked the right
questions, and actually,
what I've given them back
is not is 45 minutes,
which is super precious.
No one's upset about
exactly what they want
and and it's not a
question of, well, hang
on, I paid you for an
hour. You know, we we've
moved on from there to
Wow, is that value? That
is precisely what I
(34:30):
needed. Yeah, thank you
so much. We don't need
anything else. You're
amazing. And it's just,
it's glorious when they
say that.
Lea Turner (34:37):
I love this
conversation, because I
think the key that that's
come out from me, in
listening to you and and
it's really made me feel
validated as well, is
that, especially as
women, but, but generally
speaking, there isn't a
too old to start again.
And some people who might
be older than 40 are
sitting there going,
Yeah, but 40 snapping. 40
(34:57):
is very, very young. You
could start again. I. I'd
have started again at 40,
but now I'm 55 and I
wouldn't, but you'd,
you'd now at nearly 50,
you would start again,
right? If you definitely,
and I've got other plans
for other things, and
that's, that's the
beautiful thing, because
I've known you now for
what, four ish years,
since we worked together
initially, and we, we
sort of became friendly,
(35:18):
and I've seen your
confidence grow over the
last four years, I've
seen you change. I've
seen you putting yourself
out there more. I've seen
your content develop
online, and you've become
more and more Katie and
confidently so and
bringing your own unique
style to everything that
you do. And it's
beautiful to watch. It
feels like when you're
(35:38):
watching someone kind of
come out of like a
butterfly emerging from a
chrysalis. Yeah. And I
feel like, when you start
a business, you
definitely feel like you
are in this little
chrysalis, and it's a
very scary world. Is it
going to hurt me when I
come out of it? Are
people going to judge me?
Are people going to think
I'm, I'm rubbish at this,
because I'm, I'm just
starting, and I'm, I'm a
total newbie, and I don't
know what I'm doing, but
actually, the vast
(35:59):
majority of people on
social media included,
they're not judging you
because they remember
being there, and
actually, the vast
majority are there to
give you a leg up,
because we all know what
it was like, and that's
one of the reasons we
have the community right.
Like building the whole
community was creating
that safe space for
people, where we are all
intense on lifting one
another up and not
(36:20):
judging the city
questions. There aren't
any city questions. And
it's just beautiful to
see that for someone who
did start fresh in a
completely new career
that had ties to the old
one, but a totally new
career at 40 years old
with two kids at home
still and you found the
thing that you excel at
(36:42):
that you've doubled down
on, stayed passionate
about, and like, I'm
genuinely excited to see
what happens for you over
the next 10 years,
because it does feel like
this was the warm up.
Katie Flamman (36:54):
Yeah,
Lea Turner (36:54):
does that
feel like that to you? I
Katie Flamman (36:56):
think, I
think that's, I think
that's, that's true. And
people what you were
saying about no stupid
questions and safe space
and stuff that's super
important, and it's been
a journey. You know, yes,
it's been 10 years which
which it's it's escalated
year on year. It's got
bigger and faster and
more and and I've won
(37:18):
more awards, and I've had
bigger, better clients,
and people have come back
to me and recommended me
and all of that, and
suddenly it kind of goes
exponentially, and I'm
able to recommend other
voices if my voice isn't
right, and there's lots
of other other services
that are kind of
branching out from that
initial thing. And yes,
it's it's been a journey.
(37:39):
And if I was to look back
at, kind of 10 years ago
me in the coat cupboard
and just think, Whoa,
you've come a long way,
but, but you're right. It
does feel like a warm up
and and sort of as my
kids got bigger, and I
could leave them behind,
I could go and really try
and develop my presenting
career and get back on
camera and and leave the
(38:00):
house, because when I'm
working from from my
studio, I'm literally
working from home and
able to to pause my
recording go make
somebody some dinner, or
go pick them up from the
bus stop or whatever it
is. But now they can
almost drive so amazing.
As my family is becoming
more independent, my
(38:21):
career is as well. And,
and it's a kind of mutual
growth. Everybody's
growing. Everybody's
exploring new things and
developing new passions.
And, and that sort of
solid foundation is, of
course, still there. But,
(38:41):
I mean, I would say you
are never, ever too old
to explore and try
something new and and
just don't be scared
because you can't do it
all at the beginning.
Lea Turner (38:52):
No, it's got
to be consistent
improvement, day on day,
right? And it's not
always going to be a
forward motion. Sometimes
we have to take a few
steps back absolutely and
ready to go forward
again. I think you're a
testament to your
patience and consistency
within your industry and
learning your craft to a
really high level and and
maintaining that passion.
I think it's just, it's a
(39:12):
really great message to
send to people that it
doesn't matter if you've
never done it before, it
doesn't matter what age
you are, if you want to
start something new try,
because what's for me, I
always think about, like,
Would I regret? What am I
going to regret more
trying and failing or not
trying? And I'm like, I
would always, I always
(39:32):
know that I would be on
my deathbed going, I
really should have given
that a go, not Oh, I gave
it a go and didn't work
out. Like, I'm always
proud of myself for
trying, and obviously you
tried and made a huge
success. So I'm very
happy to see it, and I'm
excited to see what
happens over the next 10
years for you, if you
have me around that long
Well, let's
Katie Flamman (39:50):
do another
podcast episode, shall
we?
Lea Turner (39:56):
Thank you so
much for coming on the
podcast, Katie, and it's.
Been a pleasure to chat
to you, and this one's
been, once again, very
well behaved, I know,
just occasionally panting
down the microphone.
Thank
Katie Flamman (40:07):
you for
having me. It's been a
real joy chatting with
you. Leah,
Lea Turner (40:10):
always fun
talking. Thank you.
Welcome before you go, I
just need to tell you
about our brilliant
podcast sponsor that
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own mission. At the halt
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