March 24, 2025 • 46 mins
Starting your business can be an immediate success story.
Not everyone goes through struggles to grow, or difficult years before the good times hit. In fact, the opposite was true for my guest in this episode, Laura Pointer.
Laura was made redundant at the start of the Covid pandemic, which forced her hand to start her own business to “un-fuck” companies ERP systems. Something she was immediately hugely successful at and always in demand.
It wasn’t until 4 years later in 2024 that the hard times hit. Laura shares how she got through the struggles and is coming out the other side.
Laura’s story is one of self-doubt, pricing struggles, and knowing that the power of effective communication in business is crucial. Beyond ERP systems Laura is a trained coach and huge dog lover, literally, the bigger the better! This love has led her down the path of also becoming a dog trainer.
This episode beautifully shows the complexities of life and business and how you can be more than 1 thing at the same time and love every part of the opportunities they can bring.
“You're worth more than enough”– Laura
You’ll hear about:
00:00 - Navigating Contract Negotiations
01:15 - Understanding ERP Systems
06:12 - Transitioning to Business Ownership
08:52 - The Rollercoaster of Business Success
10:39 - Facing Challenges in 2024
17:44 - Finding New Opportunities
22:07 - Staying Productive During Downtime
22:56 - Transforming Lives Through Dog Training
25:44 - Navigating Change Management in Business
28:26 - Overcoming Self-Doubt as a Business Owner
32:44 - Finding Your Worth and Pricing Your Services
35:58 - Understanding Dog Behavior and Training
39:31 - Dreaming Big: Future Aspirations and Goals
40:14 - Lessons Learned: Avoiding Undervaluation
43:17 - Building Trust in Professional Relationships
Connect with Laura:
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/laura-pointer/
Pivotal Project Management - https://pivotalprojectmanagement.co.uk/
Connect with me:
My website - https://leaturner.co.uk/
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/lea-turner/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/leaturnerholt
Find out about The HoLT:
The HoLT - https://www.the-holt.com/
The HoLT on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/theholt
The HoLT on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/theholtcommunity/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theholtcommunity
The Vault - https://www.the-holt.com/vault
Join The Holt waiting list - https://www.the-holt.com/waitlist
This podcast is sponsored by QDos. Use the code LEA10 at the checkout to get your discount when signing up - https://my.qdoscontractor.com/code/10255/115219
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Laura Pointer (00:00):
Don't take the
(00:01):
contract where they negotiate
you down, right? Because I've
had that. And I took those
contracts initially, like you
were saying earlier, because I
didn't have the reserves I had
this last year to get me through
and whatever else. And it was
like, oh shit, I'm out of work.
I need to take something. But
the companies that negotiated me
down and all the rest of it were
(00:22):
micromanaging as fuck.
Lea Turner (00:37):
Hi, Laura, welcome
to the HoLT Survival Guide for
Small Businesses. Thanks. Lovely
to finally meet you in person.
Oh my gosh, even if my dog, who
has sat on my lap for every
single episode of this podcast,
has abandoned me in favour of you,
Laura Pointer (00:52):
I think I was
gonna say it's only human, but
you know what I mean, he
basically
Lea Turner (00:55):
could be human. He's
better behaved than most of the
humans we've had on this
podcast, to be fair. So we've
known each other for a fair few
years. Now we have three, four,
maybe five years, and this is
the first time we've actually
finally met in person, which is
so lovely. But why don't you
tell the listeners, the
watchers, what it is that you
do? Because there's a bit of a
variety. There is a bit
Laura Pointer (01:15):
of a variety. So
I'm mostly known for my ERP
work,
Lea Turner (01:20):
and let's talk about
what what is ERP? What does that
stand for? Yeah, no, see, that's
Laura Pointer (01:25):
where it gets
interesting. So it actually
stands for enterprise resource
planning, which is the wankiest
term in the world ever, and has
no real bearing on what they are
to a degree. So even most
companies that use ERPs don't
refer to them as using an ERP.
They tend to refer to them by
the brand that they use. So if
they use, ifs, Salesforce, SAP,
(01:48):
workday, that kind of a thing.
So one single platform that they
can run their entire business
on. They tend to be modular
packages, too. So you can buy
them if you're if your business
has an engineering and
manufacturing firm, maybe a
project, but you're going to
need finance. You might need HR.
You can bolt on the different
modules that you need when you
need them. That kind of a vibe,
(02:10):
with the idea being that it's a
fully integrated solution. So if
you're in sales, your
information automatically passes
through to the finance team or
to the manufacturing side, or
whatever you need. So you end up
with a single version of the
truth, where everything talks to
each other, and ultimately, you
can get reports nice and easily
out the back end that tell you
what you need to know to
actually run your business and
(02:30):
make decisions from
Lea Turner (02:31):
it. And you unfuck
people's ERP systems, I
basically
Laura Pointer (02:36):
do Yeah, yeah,
because what you tend to find is
because a new ERP is a fairly
chunky investment from most
businesses. I mean, you are
talking multi million spends,
basically, and that's just on
the initial outlay. That's not
even the year on year operating
costs of it. What tends to
(02:57):
happen is that businesses stick
with their legacy system for as
long as they can, to the point
where it's generally out of
service. It's not supported by
the manufacturer anymore.
There's no more releases coming
for it. They've had to buy
Christ knows whatever software
along the way to kind of put
Lea Turner (03:18):
a sticking plaster
and get some mail together over
the years,
Laura Pointer (03:21):
yeah, because
they didn't have a projecty
thing, so they added that bit
on, and they didn't have this,
and they added that on. And then
ultimately, you end up with some
poor soul somewhere, which is
was me, back in the day when I
was in corporate world, pulling
your hair out, trying to
consolidate 1001 bloody Excel
spreadsheets to try and actually
get some reports that make any
sense. But then you're also
trying to get it from someone,
(03:42):
and you're someone, and you're
like, is this the right version?
It sounds a little
Lea Turner (03:45):
bit like my house.
My house has been the people
before me had extended it in so
many different places, and the
electric wiring doesn't make any
sense, and the heating doesn't
make any sense, and the poor
contractors have had to come in
and gone. Hold on a minute. We
need to rewire this bit so the
fuse board makes sense, because
this system and this system are
different rooms, but they're all
like, yeah, oh my god. So you
(04:05):
basically come in, undo it and
make it make sense. So yeah, it
is still usable. It's got a
longer lifespan for
Laura Pointer (04:12):
exactly that, and
if we need to go so, you know,
there's options I do. So
initially I can go in and do an
audit, see what you've got, see
what you're using, what you're
not using. Because sometimes
people buy the modules, and then
they realise that they don't
actually need that one, and
they've never used it in the 20
years they've had it, but
they're paying for it, and
you're like, Well, if you're
paying for it, not using it,
(04:32):
let's
Lea Turner (04:32):
go. You could use
this bit for that exactly that
element you don't need, that
whole bit that you're paying
extra, yeah, okay, or if
Laura Pointer (04:38):
there's any gaps.
So for example, if they have
bought a standalone piece of
kit, then we use that, you know,
and we kind of see if we can
fill that gap with the actual
software they've got, yeah, or
if we need to make a
recommendation that actually
they need to go down the route
and get a new one, we'll support
them with that. We'll actually
help them establish what their
requirements are, because it's
(04:58):
really funny how many.
Businesses just assume they know
what they need, and that's when
they end up being sold to. So
yeah, exactly that, because they
get to that point where it's
just not fit for purpose
anymore. They're pulling their
hair out. They're not able to
see what they need to see.
They're not able to make the
(05:19):
decisions they need to make
because they haven't got the
functionality there. And some
salesman comes along and shows
them a shiny, shiny ERP, and
they're like, Oh, this is it.
This is the answer. And you just
like, it really fucking isn't
like, if you haven't sat down
and understood what your
business is doing, what is your
core functionality that you
absolutely need? And also, like,
(05:40):
what are your growth ambitions?
Lea Turner (05:42):
It sounds like me,
because I'm like that, oh, I
need Trello, because Trello does
this. And I need notion. I need
assignment. I need all of these.
Like, no, I probably don't need
any of them. Probably just use a
Google Doc for most of what I
need it for. But instead, I
insist on paint. And we all get
we all get excited by new things
that promise us the world. Don't
we? Shiny people like shiny
stuff. You do that. So you run
fucking systems for big
(06:03):
businesses and that big
businesses, you've been doing
that for how long, 10 years? And
how long have you been doing it
as your as a business owner,
yourself as a business
Laura Pointer (06:12):
owner, since May
2020, so was
Lea Turner (06:15):
that just as COVID
hit? It was just
Laura Pointer (06:18):
sort of after. So
I was initially doing it as I
guess a temp, you'd say, and I
was laid off at the beginning of
COVID. Hilarious. Well, I said
the beginning of COVID, we went
into lockdown on the 23rd and it
made me chuckle, because the IT
Director at the firm I was with
at the time told me on the first
of April that they were
(06:39):
basically culling all
contractors. And I'm just
literally sat there going, this
is either a really shit day to
do it or the worst April Fool
ever. And he was like, oh shit.
I didn't even realise that bit
low. And I was like, brilliant.
So it's just a really shit day
to do it. Thanks ever so much.
Lea Turner (06:54):
Oh my goodness, you
made redundant on April Fool's
Day during lockdown. Yeah. And
then it was a case of, yeah,
pretty much now, right? What
Laura Pointer (07:03):
do you do now?
And actually, those guys came
back to me within two weeks, I
think it was, and went Change
plan. He's still available.
Could you? Could you, could you
come back? And I was like, Well,
if I do it slightly, yeah, and
Lea Turner (07:20):
charge them more, I
hope. Yeah. And that kicked
things off. You doing this for
other companies, yeah, and
you've been doing that ever
since, yeah. Now we will talk
about the other things that you
do, because I know you do
coaching and also dog
whispering. Clearly, I think
anyone who's watching this can
see my dog now fawning over
Laura and acting like he's never
(07:40):
been loved before. You treat
her. He doesn't do this with any
of the guests, so you've clearly
got a magic touch. He's proved
that. But you had a like, your
first few years in business. You
really flew, right? It was, it
was incredibly successful. It
was
Laura Pointer (08:00):
the easiest thing
in the world, yeah. And I know,
I know how much of an outlier I
am with that, and most people
don't land on their feet like I
did, yeah. So in like, I say,
I've been doing this sort of
work for 10 years as my own
business, since 2020 so coming
on for year five now, which
blows my mind, because I
(08:21):
remember sitting in my office,
room at home, deciding to do it,
and going, ooh, should I? Should
I? Should I? And then obviously
it worked, and it was fine. And
yeah, in those 10 years, up
until last year, which we'll go
into, but it was literally back
to back work. The longest I had
out of your contract was two
weeks, and that was by choice,
(08:43):
yeah, because that was me going,
You know what, I'm fucking
knackered. I would love to do
this work with you, but I need
to get my head like, I need a
reset. I need a break. Because
it's, it's, it's intense,
Lea Turner (08:55):
yeah, I was gonna
say, like, mentally, it's very,
like, intensely draining,
because you're constantly trying
to find patterns and solutions
and problem solving, which I
know for someone like you is so
much fun. Like you are
absolutely one of those people
that looks for problems to
solve, because it challenges
your brain and gets you excited.
(09:15):
It's the same with your dog
training. It's quite clear that
a
Laura Pointer (09:18):
dog problem or
whatever. The
Lea Turner (09:21):
dog has problems
that you know you can solve, so
you like to try and find the
combinations that that fix the
problem. And you know, that's a
that's something that I really
relate to, because I I get
bored. If there's not problems
to solve, I get bored. It's all
too easy. I need that next
challenge all the time. How did
you so those first four years,
no problem. Got all the clients.
(09:42):
Yeah, absolutely high flying.
Yep. Lifestyle improved.
Laura Pointer (09:46):
Lifestyle,
improved finances, improved
making investments. I Yeah. So
when I started, I had two dogs
by the end. Well, yeah, by the
end of the last big contract,
which was last year, I was up to
four. Yeah, and then one
suddenly passed away last April,
which was really shit, and broke
me a little bit, can't lie, was
really sudden, really
(10:06):
unexpected. And it was one of
those that, like, you know, with
hindsight, you can look back and
go, You know what? I'm really,
really glad she didn't suffer
for prolonged period of time,
because she was a German
Shepherd. We think it was
degenerative myopathy. So
actually, legs stopped working,
basically. So on the Friday, she
was fine. On the Sunday, her
(10:28):
back leg stopped working, so I
took her to the vets, they gave
her an injection, and she perked
up a little bit. But on the
Tuesday morning, her front legs
had stopped working, too, and
that was when I had to say
goodbye,
Lea Turner (10:39):
and that was in line
alongside, literally, the
business really taking a tumble
in terms of, what was it? What
do you think it was last year
that made the big difference?
What? Why did you why? Because
I'm assuming it wasn't anything
you did wrong. You weren't
suddenly cancelled by the
industry. No, I wasn't
Laura Pointer (10:59):
cancelled. Thank
God. And if anything, you know,
I've had people this year. It's
been the weirdest thing,
actually, because, like,
literally, as soon as 2025
kicked in. Yeah, I've had more
conversations in January, and
we're only on what it's 20th
today, no 21st the day we're
recording. I've had more
conversations in January, and
(11:21):
we're not even through the whole
month yet than I had throughout
the entirety of 2024
Lea Turner (11:26):
What do you think
was the difference in 2024 that
had such a dramatic impact? It's
so dramatic. I
Laura Pointer (11:32):
wish I knew is
the honest answer, but literally
everyone I spoke to, because So
in the previous 10 years, I
would have people harassing, and
that sounds wrong, but in the
nicest way, they'd be ringing me
up going, we've got this any
chance. And I'm like, actually,
I'm on this one at the minute, I
want to see a throw. And they
would ring me every month
almost. And there was always
opportunities coming at me. And
it was one of those, oh yeah Or
(11:53):
yeah, I'm doing this one. I'll
be back, you know, if they
Lea Turner (11:56):
can wait whatever,
and choose literally all of the
projects you cherry pick your
favourite ones, the clients you
like to work with. And then last
year, and
Laura Pointer (12:04):
then last year, I
was ringing them going, I
suppose you've got anything. And
literally, everyone's like, it's
a really bloody weird year,
Laura. And I'm like, that
doesn't fucking help. It's a
really weird year. Doesn't wash
with my mortgage provider. It
doesn't help with anything like
you just suddenly going from
like you say, back to back,
everything hunky dory, making
(12:25):
investments, saving away, having
a lovely life, having moved to
my, literally, my dream home.
Lea Turner (12:32):
Well, yeah, so it
coincided with you buying a home
that financially stretched you.
Yeah, that wasn't your scary
Laura Pointer (12:40):
when I bought it
because I was in a contract.
Yeah, and within three months of
moving in, contracts gone, not
Lea Turner (12:46):
to mention the fact
that you So you've now got five
now got and they're big dogs.
They are big dogs are not cheap
to insure, to feed, to look
after, correct. That's That
alone is a big outgoing on top
of the big mortgage. So while
we're not playing our tiny
little violins and sympathy for
you because you've had it,
you've Yeah, very you know you
(13:07):
you've had that privilege. And
you know how you recognise how
lucky you are, we both do like
but for those four years, you
coasted, yeah, quite
comfortably, really. And then
you got a big wake up, wake up.
Cool. Yeah, where do you think
that you can credit that all to
the industry was just weird, the
economy was weird. Or do you
(13:28):
feel like there were things
maybe that you weren't doing in
2022 2023 that that would have
maybe impacted 2024 more
positively?
Laura Pointer (13:40):
I think, as
irritating as it is, I wish it
was me, because I could have
changed that. But literally,
every single person like I even
know recruiters who were laid
off, who were specifically ERP
recruiters, I know another who's
now three days a week rather
than full time. Sorry, I'm being
(14:02):
distracted because my boys
looking at me. I you know, it's
just one of those. And I think
there were so many weird factors
last year as well. So you
obviously had the UK election,
you had the US election, you had
various budgetary things. I've
got contacts in Germany. They
were sort of saying, don't know
what the hell is going on this
(14:22):
year, but no one can make a
fucking decision like, what
Lea Turner (14:26):
is pulling their
belts in? Yeah, I think it was
Laura Pointer (14:29):
a mixture of
people putting their belts in
and trying to keep things as
tight and as lean as they could.
So rather than seeing working
with someone like me as an
investment for their business,
they were seeing it as an
expense, which isn't how it's
been perceived otherwise. And
also you just some of the
(14:51):
softwares are doing almost
sounds like I'm being
discriminatory and bad to though
I don't mean to be, but they're
doing almost a. Forced upgrade
this year. Some of them, the
previous versions, are coming to
the end of their life, and
they're almost forcing people
down a path of you kind of have
to go for this latest version,
right? Or you're out on your
(15:12):
ear. So it's kind of done you a
favour then, because so it's
coming back. There's a shed load
of people now kind of kicking
stuff off, because that is
coming into effect effectively
at the beginning of April. So
there's now a bunch of people
out there going, Oh, okay, we
can't afford the additional cost
of sticking on our old one. We
need a we need someone like you
who can come in and help us and
(15:32):
show us, because that's the
other thing as well, right? It's
one of those. Because I'm an
external I get to play the
middle ground. So I've got the
best interest of the business
who's working with me at heart,
but I will hold both sides to
account. So whether that's a
software provider or a partner
(15:53):
or whatever, I will point out to
them if they're staring them
down the wrong path, and
Lea Turner (15:58):
you are brutally
honest in the nicest way,
because we all know that. I love
people that are brutally honest.
You know exactly where you stand
with those people. There's never
any room for confusion. If
someone's
Laura Pointer (16:08):
got an ugly baby,
I will tell them. We can
Lea Turner (16:14):
tell you're not
really a kid person, more of a
dog person,
Laura Pointer (16:17):
right? There's no
such thing as an ugly dog.
Lea Turner (16:20):
I don't know what
those Chinese crusted ones are,
a bit odd,
Unknown (16:23):
but they're still kind
of endearing
Lea Turner (16:26):
Chinese Crested dogs
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eligibility. Now back to the
conversation. But how did it
feel for you as a bit because
we're so used to talking about
the highs of business and seeing
people, you know, reflect on the
shit times when they're out of
them. Yeah, but you so you had
some really good news this
(17:49):
morning. You've got a contract.
Yep, this morning. So that's for
how long, six months minimum.
Brilliant. So that, I mean,
we've already celebrated, we've
already done because it's been
the first contract you've had in
a while. Yeah, it's
Laura Pointer (18:04):
been the first
long term one. So I had a very
small one in September, which
was so when with ERP stuff, what
you tend to find is that
companies have their main scope
of what they need to achieve.
And then there's normally what I
call the myth, of mythical beast
of a phase two, which most
businesses never get around to,
(18:25):
right? Because they're
effectively the nice to haves.
They're not the essentials that
they need to run the business,
but they're the nice little bits
that make it easier once the
essentials are in. Right? But
the problem with a phase two is
that generally, by the time the
business is at the point of
thinking about it, all the
consultancy support that they've
had, and everything else has
buggered off. So I was really
lucky that one of the partners
(18:47):
contacted me because they had a
small piece of phase two work in
September for one of their
clients. It was just a system
enhancement. So it was a week,
but it wasn't what I'm used to.
I'm used to almost full time
hours constantly on it. So I
mean, that was a lovely bit of
a, Oh, little breather.
Lea Turner (19:05):
But how did that
like, I can't imagine going from
working really full on you, um,
you work hard. You do long
hours. It's a lot of
concentration, obviously, with
allowances for the dogs, but
you're very tunnel visioned in
in focus project. Work hard.
Yep, deliver it on time. You're
so good with your clients. Spot
the ADHD, hyper focus, you've
(19:27):
gone from that to like, Oh, I've
got nothing to do. Yeah, that.
How did that affect you and your
confidence and your sort of day
to day life? Because I can't
really imagine not being Go, go,
go all the time. It's a it's a
really big change of pace,
Laura Pointer (19:41):
100% and also
really sounds stupid, but like
when I moved into the house, it
needed new windows and doors,
right? So when I first moved in,
it was draughty as hell. The
actual front door, you couldn't
open it from the outside. It was
Unknown (19:56):
brilliant. That's
useful. It's like extra.
Laura Pointer (20:00):
Security measure,
but I had to spend a small
bloody fortune on replacing all
of that. And again, it was one
of those moments of, okay, I was
almost delighted that it was
happening when it did, because I
was out of contract. I'm like,
Well, thank God I'm not dealing
with all the banging and the
workmen and everything else I'm
trying to do client calls. But
it was a lot of money that
(20:21):
actually in hindsight, you know,
when you're thinking shit, if
I'd have known I was going to be
out for this long, I wouldn't
have done the doors and windows
last year. I'd have waited. I'd
have had another chilly winter,
yeah, but I'd have had that
money in my ass pocket, and it
would have been breathing space,
because none of us thought that
it was going to be that sort of
a year. And there's so many
people who do what I do that,
(20:42):
you know, I'm in contact with on
LinkedIn and places like that,
and they're all just like, I
think I'm just gonna have to
bite the bullet and go and get a
proper job or whatever. And you
let that cross your mind. Did it
cross my mind? Yes, and no. I
mean, it
Lea Turner (20:56):
would be very
difficult with
Laura Pointer (20:57):
the dogs. Yeah,
that's the no bit, because my
dogs, they're not, they're not
Bronson, they're not the sort of
dog I could either take with me
or put in daycare. As you know,
I only take on what I
affectionately call the nutters
with issues,
Lea Turner (21:13):
the ones families
won't adopt, yeah, or anyone
without dog expertise will
adopt, yeah.
Laura Pointer (21:19):
So they can't be
flung in kennels or daycare or
anything like that, or take him
with me, so I've never
Lea Turner (21:24):
put him in that. I'm
a I'm not a clingy mum in terms
of my son, but I'm a clingy dog
mom.
Baby. He was my first baby, and
I learned to be unselfish with
my wants and needs with him,
yeah, and he was my little like
(21:45):
he's my emotional support animal
who's betrayed me today. So what
did you do if you had all of
that time free? You had,
obviously the dogs to invest
your time with, but what? How
did you keep yourself busy when
you've gone from working 4050,
hours a week, or, if not more,
to I've got no work to do, what
(22:06):
did you do instead? What did I
do instead?
Laura Pointer (22:08):
I A viewed
finding my next contract almost
as a full time job, right? And
actually doing what? Which
meant, contacting recruiters,
making connections with people
on LinkedIn, having
conversations with people and
just being the annoying person,
going, hi. Remember me still
available? But also that's when
(22:29):
I decided to do the coaching
certification, because it was
like, well, if I'm not being
used in a work capacity, how can
I keep my brain active? What
else can I bring to the party?
And actually, knowing that, you
know, initially, I was a bit
wary about offering dog training
as a service as well. And it was
actually thanks to Hayley
Duggan, who I know from
(22:49):
LinkedIn, who is the reason I
have Reggie malimoir, It's all
her fault. And she was like, you
know, you are more than
qualified. Look at your dogs.
Look at the dogs they were
before they joined you, and the
dogs they are today. She's like,
you don't need an accreditation.
You've got the lived experience
of transforming these dogs like
you can help your bog standard
(23:09):
average pet home with their
issues. I was like, Okay. And
then it was like, well, if I'm
doing that, then actually maybe
some of the coaching skills a
would play out and help with dog
training, because a lot of it,
the dogs pick up really quickly.
The time is actually spent on
training the bloody humans. That
doesn't surprise me, because
they just get into habit, right?
(23:30):
And you know the amount of them,
I'm like, relax your arm,
because they're like, holding it
up by the chin, almost, because
they're expecting the dog to
pull and be a dickhead. But the
dog's now walking very happily.
But they're just on autopilot
because they've spent the last
however long being panicked and
being dragged around, but also
knowing that the coaching stuff
would play out well with my ERP
clients when I got those going
(23:52):
again as well, because so much
of the issues that you get in
ERP is actually change it's the
change management piece, because
project management's great, and
that's how you get shit done.
But if you genuinely want it to
stick and you genuinely want it
to be adopted, you've got to
deal with the fears that people
are feeling and get them on that
(24:14):
journey with you as to a why the
business is doing it. Because
people, if they're not, if that
isn't explained to them, they
will inevitably just recreate
what they've always done,
because that's all they've
known. I mean, I even had one
who tried to tell me that they
(24:34):
needed to create all of their
employees as suppliers on the
system to pay their expenses. I
was like, but you have the HR
module of the system, which has
an expenses module. You don't
need to do that anymore. What
you're telling me is you need to
pay expenses. What we now need
to look at is how we can best do
that in your new system, not how
you've always done it. And if
the bosses and the powers that
(24:55):
be aren't actually telling their
staff we want you. To make
improvements here. We want you
to give us stuff we haven't had
before, because that's why
they're making that multi
million pound investment. They
don't just want the same share
in a shiny new system. They want
better. And if the staff don't
know that, they will just do
(25:15):
what they've always done,
because that's what they believe
their job is. I mean,
Lea Turner (25:18):
we're the same as
entrepreneurs or business owners
as well, aren't we? We get so
comfortable with what we are
already doing, even if what
we're doing is difficult and
making it unnecessarily
complicated for ourselves, which
we are all guilty of at some
point. If we don't know a better
system, you don't know what you
don't know. I'm really guilty of
this. I i will try something
new, and I'll I'll like certain
(25:39):
features, but then I will go
back to what's familiar, because
it's easier, even if it's not
actually easier. If I if I've
dedicated more time to learning
the new thing to work it
properly, it will be more
efficient, but it will take me
so long to learn the new thing,
that's it, right? I can't be
bothered. I'll just carry on
struggling. And
Laura Pointer (25:58):
that's exactly
the same for the corporate
employees, right? They starting
a new system. Can sometimes feel
to them that they they no longer
know how to do their day job.
And if they've been in that
business for 20 years or however
long, suddenly feeling like the
new person all over again. It's
like going from easy to Mac,
right, or like, and I was saying
to someone else this morning,
like, it's one of those that you
(26:19):
almost have to think about it
like when you first got the
first time you ever sat in a
car, you first ever driving
lesson, yeah, right. And you're
sitting in there and you're
thinking, right, okay, key in
the ignition, seat belts on. Are
the mirrors in the right bloody
place? Yeah? Okay. So foot on
the clutch, turn the key. Oh
God, the engine's making a
noise. Okay, shit, right. Okay.
So foot on the clutch again,
into first gear, find the bike
(26:42):
point, let go the handbrake. Oh,
my God, the damn thing's moving.
Shit. Okay, I'm actually
driving. Fuck, fuck, fuck,
right? And you have that. But
then a year down the line, so on
autopilot, you're 100% on
autopilot. You're up and down
the bloody motorway. You've got
the tunes blaring. You're
singing your head off.
Lea Turner (26:56):
I get to places and
I go, I can't even remember
driving, and I've completely
forgotten because it's so on
autopilot exactly that.
Laura Pointer (27:04):
And it's the same
with using a system, but like
muscle memory is a thing, and
people know where to click and
they know what to do, even if
it's the jankiest clunky as
shittest system in existence
that's well out of date, people
cling onto it like a comfort
blanket because it's familiar
and that new thing and trying to
explain to them that this is
going to make your life them
that this is going to make your
(27:27):
life better
Lea Turner (27:28):
and how to use an
iPhone, or trying to teach my
mum's husband, you can have
accounting systems. You don't
have to write everything down in
a book. But I know that that's
their generation, and that's how
things were done, and I
completely respect that, but it
is, as they say, it's hard to
teach old dogs new tricks, not
in your experience, because you
are an expert. I love how that
(27:48):
just works so seamlessly, but it
is when you get used to things,
because we are not comfortable
with being bad at things. Yeah,
right, exactly that, and
especially
Unknown (27:59):
as adults, yeah.
Lea Turner (28:00):
When was the last
time you started something brand
new that you sucked at and had
to learn from scratch? It feels
really uncomfortable to be crap
at something, yeah, and it's
probably held me back from like,
I've quite, I'd quite like to
learn a new like, a language, a
language other than sarcasm in
English, right? But I am so
(28:23):
insecure about saying the wrong
thing and doing it badly, yeah,
because I'm so used to being so
good at speaking English and
never having to worry that the
idea of being crap at speaking
Thai or French or Spanish, yeah,
and people misunderstanding me
and thinking, just share this,
but I just don't do it. And so
(28:45):
how have you like when you made
that transition to going out as
a consultant on your own, did
you have any doubts about
yourself as a business owner?
Because obviously you knew the
thing that you needed to sell,
that the service that you
offered. You knew that like the
back of your hand. Where were
the bits that you struggled
with? As
Laura Pointer (29:02):
silly as it
sounds, the bits I struggled
with the most, I think, as basic
as it sounds, was pricing and
actually knowing my worth and my
value. And I think that came
from the fact, like I said, I'd
been doing it as a temp for
years anyway, and when you're
doing it just as a temp, you
don't get the consultant day
(29:22):
rates. You just don't know. And
again, you just,
Lea Turner (29:28):
you've an agency
takes a nice big chunk of the
agency takes a lovely chunk and
Laura Pointer (29:31):
fair play to
them, because they're obviously
opening the doors for you and
all the rest of it, which is
great. And recruiters definitely
Lea Turner (29:38):
the agencies. But
recruiters absolutely have that
yes, for sure, and
Laura Pointer (29:42):
you know, I
wouldn't have got the contract I
got this morning, actually, had
it not been for a recruiter who
I had a lovely chat with via
LinkedIn last week. So you know,
they absolutely have their
place, but it's a different
style of recruiter when you're
going through a specialist in an
ERP world than it is through a
generic 10 pages. See kind of a
vibe. Do you know what I mean?
Not Ethan,
Lea Turner (30:02):
with his
highlighted, spiky blonde hair
and
Laura Pointer (30:06):
and it's when
you've kind of come from that,
and then you kind of go, Oh,
you, you think I can earn that,
okay? And that feels like a
massive step up. Now I'd be
like, not doing it for that,
like, you need to up it all wee
bit.
Lea Turner (30:23):
So how much? And we
are not asking for specific
figures, but like in percentage
increase, or how many times?
What were you how much did it go
up within, like, that first six
months or a year, like, or how
did you know when it nearly
doubled? Nearly doubled. Yeah,
and that was your day rate
nearly doubled. Yeah, and, and
(30:43):
what about since?
Laura Pointer (30:44):
Since I've just
through choice, I've almost kept
it at the same level, because,
and again, I know I've got, in
the back of my head, I've got
the lovely Donna Elliot, who I
know, you know, as part of the
community too, going, you know,
I'm just like, oh, that's
enough. And she's like, you're
worth more than enough. I get
(31:05):
this.
Lea Turner (31:07):
I had the same
situation with the LinkedIn
training and with the community
as well people. You could charge
more, you could charge more. And
while I know what I do is worth
it, I want it to be accessible
to the types of people I want to
work with, yeah, and when I was
doing the LinkedIn training, I
had got to a price point where
(31:29):
people were happily paying it,
and I was really enjoying the
people that I was working with.
Yeah, I felt unaligned, not
because I didn't believe that
what I did was worth that money,
because I did, and I had the
proof, yeah. People were getting
the value from it. They were
getting the clients absolutely,
yeah, but because I knew that
the people who needed my help
(31:49):
the most, who would benefit the
most, yeah, were not people that
could afford that. Yeah. And
when I started the community, I
was determined to create
something that was in inverted
commas, a low ticket, yeah,
because the people I knew I
really wanted to help were the
people at the beginning of the
journey, yeah, who needed that
extra support, that community
(32:11):
help, who didn't have it all
figured out yet? Yeah. And for
me, I wanted to help the people
that I was five years ago when I
first started out and I'm I
still am, now, I'm still
figuring out those were my
targets, and it wasn't about how
much they earned, it was how
much support they needed and how
much education and how much they
would benefit from what. And it
(32:32):
doesn't matter, it's and it's
not about money mindset. I'm
it's not, I'm not worth a
million pounds. I don't want to
have an offer that is so much
because it's so limiting with
Laura Pointer (32:44):
and it's one of
those I know, for one of my old
clients, when I left them, I
actually had a conversation with
a lady in procurement who was
like, You need to charge more.
And I was like, Why do you say
that? Like, she's like, because
you're leaving. I'm like, yeah.
She's like, they're having to
hire four people to cover what
you did. She's like, you weren't
charging four people's worth of
(33:05):
person. I
Lea Turner (33:07):
mean, that that does
make any and it was
conversations with people like
that that made me put up my
prices. Yeah, and I kept having
those conversations. But at the
at some point, you have to
decide that it what is it money?
Is it impact? What is the thing
that I'm driven by? And I'm sure
the companies would pay you more
because you're working with
(33:28):
companies. Yeah, I've got those
kinds of budgets when you're
working with like individuals,
like with the coaching clients,
like with the dog training, if
you price that so high that you
were only working with like,
tonnes of money. It
Laura Pointer (33:41):
would reveal that
help exactly matter. And with
the dog training store,
Lea Turner (33:45):
a bad dog is a bad
dog. Exactly the expert. Whether
you're throwing 1000s of pounds
at an expert or 50 quid an hour
at an expert, they still need
help with their dog. Yeah, and
the dog deserves that help.
That's exactly it's having that
guidance of what the impact you
want to have is, yeah, and
Laura Pointer (34:01):
that's exactly
the stance I've done with the
dog training. For me, it's the
fact that I know I can help
these people. I know I've got
proof now of I think there's
been at least 10 of them through
the doors who have been
genuinely like, this is a
different dog. What have you
done to my dog? And I know I've
been able to help them, but I've
(34:22):
also made a point of not doing
it, a price point that feels
icky to me, I guess, because I
want to help the dog. At the end
of the day, it's not really
about the human, because there
are so many dogs in rescues. You
Lea Turner (34:34):
kind of thing for
free anyway, pretty much, but
Laura Pointer (34:37):
it's like, you
know, there are so many dogs you
still have to pay. So many dogs
end up in rescue through no
fault of their own, and a lot of
it is either poorly researching
the breed or just falling in
love with the puppy and then not
realising what it's going to
turn into. But you know, I think
one of the factors with many
dogs that isn't spoken about
enough is, you know, as much as
I don't agree with like people
(34:58):
going, oh, there's no such thing
as a bad dog. Which is bad
owners, no genetics of the
animal. Certain dogs and certain
breeds have been bred to perform
a task. It's like you will see
videos on Tiktok and whatever,
of like an eight week old Border
Collie herding sheep. Yeah, not
because it's been taught how to
do it, but it's just part of its
(35:18):
DNA. It knows what to do.
Lea Turner (35:20):
You see, the same
with children? I never my son
was, you know, all of his toys
were like gender neutral, until
he started going to a local play
group, and the first thing he
did was toddled straight towards
a box full of cars. And for the
next three years, he was car
obsessed. I'd never bought him a
toy car. He had no there was no
conditioning or pushing from me.
But he'd gone to the cars, not
(35:41):
the dolls, and that was just the
way. It's dogs. You know, we're
there is a certain amount of
there is, but
Laura Pointer (35:48):
it's actually
working with that nurture,
working with the genes of the
dog and the breed of the dog,
and actually fulfilling what it
needs as that particular
species.
Lea Turner (35:58):
It's fascinating how
you've just got this brain that
spots problems and then finds
solutions. And do you think
that's like a neurodiverse
thing? Because I finally I find
I see patterns, yeah, not in
terms of things like ERP systems
that would like data and systems
and anything remotely technical,
my brain is instantly fried,
(36:19):
like, yeah, just go, nope,
absolutely
Unknown (36:21):
not walk away in
Lea Turner (36:23):
the business,
because I just, I couldn't
possibly manage it myself. But
when it comes to, like, business
problems, and I'm like, Well,
this is the thing that struggle
you're struggling with, and this
is a result it's having, and
this is what you want to happen.
Why don't we try this as this?
Yeah, and I love that. Do you
think that's a neurodiverse
thing? It may well be
Laura Pointer (36:40):
because I've,
I've had exactly that so many
times with clients, yeah? And
literally, they look at you and
go, Oh my God, you're a fucking
genius. And you're like, and
it's the written it to you. So
it's the most obvious thing in
the bloody world. It's like, how
did you not see that?
Lea Turner (36:53):
I find that. And so
you see the same thing with
dogs, yeah? You just instantly
know, yeah. And I mean, it's, it
goes to show that you've got
something innate in you that
dogs respond to. Because quite
honestly, my dog has never been
has never abandoned me like
this,
Laura Pointer (37:10):
but like even
seven year old me, if I was like
I remember our neighbours had an
anxious dog. She was a
collycross called Annie, and
like the owners had kind of said
to my parents, you know, just
she's not really a fan of kids
or whatever else. No one had had
this conversation with me, and
they came out of their house one
day, and I'm literally sat cross
(37:31):
legged on the floor outside
their back door gate, just
having a chat with Annie. We
were having a lovely time, just
like Bronson and I are right
now. I'm Annie's like this with
me, and they came up, like,
Lea Turner (37:43):
I'm like, she
doesn't do that wicked. So is my
son. And it's something about
your, like, calm energy, or
something like that, that they
can sense you're not in danger
to them and they and they're
softer with you. It's beautiful
to see. But he's obviously, you
know, even if
Laura Pointer (37:57):
you haven't
called him a traitor several
Lea Turner (38:00):
times, it's okay. I
can, I can deal with it. It's,
it's weird recording without
having him to stroke my hands.
Feel like I don't know what to
do with my hands. So in terms
of, like, where you are at the
with the business now, you got
the contract this morning. So
hooray. Next six months are
sorted. Yeah, dogs, the dog
babies can be fed. They can
What? What is your plan long
(38:21):
term, sort of looking ahead,
because you've obviously
discovered this real passion for
the dog training. Do you have
any do you have any kind of
insight as to what, what that
looks like in the future, like?
Would the systems thing be left
behind? Will there be a business
built around part
Laura Pointer (38:37):
of me thinks so.
I mean, Ian Dempsey knows this,
oh,
Lea Turner (38:44):
is an exclusive, I
guess so.
Laura Pointer (38:46):
Part of me thinks
that maybe I could build what is
my current ERP business into
more of an agency model and have
more me's out doing the me work,
right? I love that, because
obviously, when it's just you,
you hit capacity very quickly.
But ultimately, the dream, and I
can't believe I'm saying this
out loud, so it definitely means
(39:06):
it's gonna have to happen, um,
is to bugger off to
Unknown (39:09):
Italy. Oh, with the
with all the dogs, with all the
dogs, right? And buy a vineyard.
Laura Pointer (39:15):
Oh, that's gonna
be producing vineyard. I don't
know, in my head, it's gonna be
Prosecco, because I want to call
it fizz farm. Yeah, so I can
have my crazy rescue crew,
right? And I can just make
Prosecco, and I can employ
people to make the Prosecco,
because I only know how to drink
it.
Lea Turner (39:31):
We need to do is add
some cheese in there, and that's
Yeah, but
Laura Pointer (39:34):
I'm vegan, so
that doesn't work for me. Oh,
yeah. So, you know, do the
prosecco the peop. I can pay the
people. It can pay me enough me
and the dogs can have a lovely
time.
Lea Turner (39:45):
I mean, during life,
I would so just sort of time
we've gone, covered so much
ground, and it's been such a
random conversation, but I've
really enjoyed it. If there's a
bit of advice, you could look
back and say, Hey, Laura. Yeah,
and sort of 2023 2022 Laura, so
at the beginning, but not right
(40:05):
at the beginning. If you do this
or change this, things are going
to be a little bit easier for
the next few years. Yeah. What
would you say?
Laura Pointer (40:14):
Don't take the
contract where they negotiate
you down, right? Because I've
had that and I took those
contracts initially, like you
were saying earlier, because I
didn't have the reserves I had
this last year to get me through
and whatever else. And it was
like, oh shit, I'm out of work.
I need to take something. But
the companies that negotiated me
(40:35):
down and all the rest of it were
micromanaging as fuck. Oh,
Lea Turner (40:39):
this is so true,
though it's the one to argue
price that you go, I don't want
to, like, at the time and at the
beginning, you will absolutely
take contracts and work with
clients that will undercut you
or, like, like, talk you down on
price. I definitely accepted,
yep, prices that I never should
have accepted when I'm when I
started my transcription
(40:59):
business, I was working for
like, like, yeah, really, really
low. It was embarrassingly low.
But I didn't need that income to
survive. And then it started
having to go up when it was,
like, my sole income, yeah, I
can't possibly survive on that.
But you do realise, and I hate
to say it, because it's such a
cliche. Things people say, but
the more a client is paying, the
(41:21):
easier it is to get the money
out of them. Yep, and they are
much less bothered by
micromanaging, and they're
Laura Pointer (41:27):
much more
inclined to just let you do the
job they've brought you in to
do, because that's why they've
hired
Lea Turner (41:32):
and you like that if
you outsource anything? Are you
like that? Because I know that,
because I've got clients that
pay me a lot, or have have had
clients. Obviously, that was the
last business I would they would
hire me, pay me a big sum, and
then just let me get on with it
and do the thing and not
constantly harass me or bother
me. It was just like, crack on,
(41:52):
get on with it. And I never had
to chase them for money, and I
didn't have to, like, negotiate
anything, yeah. Now I'm that
person. I hire other experts,
I'm like, if I'm hiring you,
it's because you're better at
the thing than I am 100% so why
am I going to be going, well,
you should do it the way you
think it's supposed to be done,
(42:13):
is how it's supposed to be done,
right? Yeah, that you trust
Exactly. Made that mistake. I
have made mistakes, yeah, and
probably should have managed
people a little bit closer they
weren't the right person for the
job. My email marketer, I'm just
like, crack on. You. Do your
thing, because I know you're
going to do it better than I
ever could. Yeah, that's why
I've hired you. And I learned so
much from watching him, and I
still don't want to do it
(42:34):
myself. He's still always going
to do it better. He's an expert.
So do you find that that's
exactly reflected with your
Laura Pointer (42:41):
Yeah, 100% and
like, you know, it's things like
the accountant and that sort of
stuff, you know. And I'm just
like, I haven't got a
counselling training, I would
have a bloody clue. Like, if
that's what I need to do, that's
what I need to do, if you need
me to say that's okay, then I'll
say it's okay. So how
Lea Turner (42:53):
do you manage to
find the people that you trust
to be that hands off? Because I
feel like at some stage I'm
going to get burned, because I'm
so trusting with my team that
are now. I don't think that the
team that I have would do yes,
they're never say that, because
they're all exceptional. They've
been with me a long time, and I
really trust them, but I could
(43:14):
easily be burned by that
because, but
Laura Pointer (43:17):
I guess for me,
I've gone down the route mostly
of the people I work with in
that regard who support me have
been people who've been
recommended to me by people that
I know and trust. Yeah, and you
know, if it was just bill down
the pub or whatever, yeah, I'm
not going to go off that
recommendation. Do you know what
I mean? Yeah, whereas, if it's
(43:38):
someone who I know does a
similar thing to me, or has got
similar experiences and wants to
do well and wants to build their
own business. And they're
saying, You know what, this
person is, a really good person
to work with, great
Lea Turner (43:49):
and that just goes
to sort of prove why having like
communities and memberships
where you are building those,
those networks of so valuable,
because you just never know when
a referral is going to come in.
Like, literally, this morning,
someone said in the community,
does anyone know a good
conveyancing solicitor? And I
was like, Yeah, my mortgage
brokers recommended one to me.
Can't remember his name.
Immediately, got a
recommendation of someone I
(44:09):
trust, who I previously worked
with, who are sensational, yeah,
and they were, they were
fantastic during my house sale.
And, you know, they've
capitalised off the trust that
I've built with this person has
so, I mean, it works so well.
There's, I don't think I've ever
gone into the community and
said, Does anyone know someone
like, insert profession? Yeah,
and, and there's not been a
(44:31):
brilliant number of
recommendations. Come back, and
I've had loads of options. Or
someone in there does the thing
and I can hire them. Yeah, for
the last two years, I don't
think I've hired anyone that,
outside of the community. It's
amazing. Laura, thank you so
much for coming on the podcast.
It's been so happy to you at
some point
Laura Pointer (44:47):
for having me.
Bronson, all evening, I just get
you in the car with me. She
won't know
Lea Turner (44:57):
my life without him.
It's been such a treat to chat
with you. You and to finally
meet you in person. So thank you
so much. Thank you. Supporting
small business owners is my
biggest passion, and that's what
my membership community the HoLT
is all about. Inside the HoLT
are more than 150 master classes
from experts in every business
(45:17):
skill you could ever want, and
we add more every single month.
There are also sales clinics,
tech clinics, well being,
support and advice and discounts
on a huge range of software and
services. But it's so much more
than just trainings and
resources. Everyone inside the
HoLT shares their years of
knowledge and experience
generously with kindness and
(45:39):
without judgement. They're super
active. The chat channels are
buzzing, and it's like having
600 business cheerleaders in
your pocket, willing you to
succeed and helping you wherever
they can. And we offer all of
this and much more at an
extremely low price, because we
know that budgets are tight when
you're bootstrapping a business,
(46:00):
the HoLT is a kind, inclusive
and non judgmental place where
everyone knows that working
together is the fastest way to
succeed, and it makes it a whole
lot more fun. We would love for
you to join us. You can check
out the full details on the
dash, halt.com, or if
communities aren't really your
vibe and you just want access to
(46:20):
the hundreds of expert
masterclass recordings with a
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and start bingeing your way
through brilliant trainings from
(46:41):
leading experts. You
Don't take the
(00:01):
contract where they negotiate
you down, right? Because I've
had that. And I took those
contracts initially, like you
were saying earlier, because I
didn't have the reserves I had
this last year to get me through
and whatever else. And it was
like, oh shit, I'm out of work.
I need to take something. But
the companies that negotiated me
down and all the rest of it were
(00:22):
micromanaging as fuck.
Lea Turner (00:37):
Hi, Laura, welcome
to the HoLT Survival Guide for
Small Businesses. Thanks. Lovely
to finally meet you in person.
Oh my gosh, even if my dog, who
has sat on my lap for every
single episode of this podcast,
has abandoned me in favour of you,
Laura Pointer (00:52):
I think I was
gonna say it's only human, but
you know what I mean, he
basically
Lea Turner (00:55):
could be human. He's
better behaved than most of the
humans we've had on this
podcast, to be fair. So we've
known each other for a fair few
years. Now we have three, four,
maybe five years, and this is
the first time we've actually
finally met in person, which is
so lovely. But why don't you
tell the listeners, the
watchers, what it is that you
do? Because there's a bit of a
variety. There is a bit
Laura Pointer (01:15):
of a variety. So
I'm mostly known for my ERP
work,
Lea Turner (01:20):
and let's talk about
what what is ERP? What does that
stand for? Yeah, no, see, that's
Laura Pointer (01:25):
where it gets
interesting. So it actually
stands for enterprise resource
planning, which is the wankiest
term in the world ever, and has
no real bearing on what they are
to a degree. So even most
companies that use ERPs don't
refer to them as using an ERP.
They tend to refer to them by
the brand that they use. So if
they use, ifs, Salesforce, SAP,
(01:48):
workday, that kind of a thing.
So one single platform that they
can run their entire business
on. They tend to be modular
packages, too. So you can buy
them if you're if your business
has an engineering and
manufacturing firm, maybe a
project, but you're going to
need finance. You might need HR.
You can bolt on the different
modules that you need when you
need them. That kind of a vibe,
(02:10):
with the idea being that it's a
fully integrated solution. So if
you're in sales, your
information automatically passes
through to the finance team or
to the manufacturing side, or
whatever you need. So you end up
with a single version of the
truth, where everything talks to
each other, and ultimately, you
can get reports nice and easily
out the back end that tell you
what you need to know to
actually run your business and
(02:30):
make decisions from
Lea Turner (02:31):
it. And you unfuck
people's ERP systems, I
basically
Laura Pointer (02:36):
do Yeah, yeah,
because what you tend to find is
because a new ERP is a fairly
chunky investment from most
businesses. I mean, you are
talking multi million spends,
basically, and that's just on
the initial outlay. That's not
even the year on year operating
costs of it. What tends to
(02:57):
happen is that businesses stick
with their legacy system for as
long as they can, to the point
where it's generally out of
service. It's not supported by
the manufacturer anymore.
There's no more releases coming
for it. They've had to buy
Christ knows whatever software
along the way to kind of put
Lea Turner (03:18):
a sticking plaster
and get some mail together over
the years,
Laura Pointer (03:21):
yeah, because
they didn't have a projecty
thing, so they added that bit
on, and they didn't have this,
and they added that on. And then
ultimately, you end up with some
poor soul somewhere, which is
was me, back in the day when I
was in corporate world, pulling
your hair out, trying to
consolidate 1001 bloody Excel
spreadsheets to try and actually
get some reports that make any
sense. But then you're also
trying to get it from someone,
(03:42):
and you're someone, and you're
like, is this the right version?
It sounds a little
Lea Turner (03:45):
bit like my house.
My house has been the people
before me had extended it in so
many different places, and the
electric wiring doesn't make any
sense, and the heating doesn't
make any sense, and the poor
contractors have had to come in
and gone. Hold on a minute. We
need to rewire this bit so the
fuse board makes sense, because
this system and this system are
different rooms, but they're all
like, yeah, oh my god. So you
(04:05):
basically come in, undo it and
make it make sense. So yeah, it
is still usable. It's got a
longer lifespan for
Laura Pointer (04:12):
exactly that, and
if we need to go so, you know,
there's options I do. So
initially I can go in and do an
audit, see what you've got, see
what you're using, what you're
not using. Because sometimes
people buy the modules, and then
they realise that they don't
actually need that one, and
they've never used it in the 20
years they've had it, but
they're paying for it, and
you're like, Well, if you're
paying for it, not using it,
(04:32):
let's
Lea Turner (04:32):
go. You could use
this bit for that exactly that
element you don't need, that
whole bit that you're paying
extra, yeah, okay, or if
Laura Pointer (04:38):
there's any gaps.
So for example, if they have
bought a standalone piece of
kit, then we use that, you know,
and we kind of see if we can
fill that gap with the actual
software they've got, yeah, or
if we need to make a
recommendation that actually
they need to go down the route
and get a new one, we'll support
them with that. We'll actually
help them establish what their
requirements are, because it's
(04:58):
really funny how many.
Businesses just assume they know
what they need, and that's when
they end up being sold to. So
yeah, exactly that, because they
get to that point where it's
just not fit for purpose
anymore. They're pulling their
hair out. They're not able to
see what they need to see.
They're not able to make the
(05:19):
decisions they need to make
because they haven't got the
functionality there. And some
salesman comes along and shows
them a shiny, shiny ERP, and
they're like, Oh, this is it.
This is the answer. And you just
like, it really fucking isn't
like, if you haven't sat down
and understood what your
business is doing, what is your
core functionality that you
absolutely need? And also, like,
(05:40):
what are your growth ambitions?
Lea Turner (05:42):
It sounds like me,
because I'm like that, oh, I
need Trello, because Trello does
this. And I need notion. I need
assignment. I need all of these.
Like, no, I probably don't need
any of them. Probably just use a
Google Doc for most of what I
need it for. But instead, I
insist on paint. And we all get
we all get excited by new things
that promise us the world. Don't
we? Shiny people like shiny
stuff. You do that. So you run
fucking systems for big
(06:03):
businesses and that big
businesses, you've been doing
that for how long, 10 years? And
how long have you been doing it
as your as a business owner,
yourself as a business
Laura Pointer (06:12):
owner, since May
2020, so was
Lea Turner (06:15):
that just as COVID
hit? It was just
Laura Pointer (06:18):
sort of after. So
I was initially doing it as I
guess a temp, you'd say, and I
was laid off at the beginning of
COVID. Hilarious. Well, I said
the beginning of COVID, we went
into lockdown on the 23rd and it
made me chuckle, because the IT
Director at the firm I was with
at the time told me on the first
of April that they were
(06:39):
basically culling all
contractors. And I'm just
literally sat there going, this
is either a really shit day to
do it or the worst April Fool
ever. And he was like, oh shit.
I didn't even realise that bit
low. And I was like, brilliant.
So it's just a really shit day
to do it. Thanks ever so much.
Lea Turner (06:54):
Oh my goodness, you
made redundant on April Fool's
Day during lockdown. Yeah. And
then it was a case of, yeah,
pretty much now, right? What
Laura Pointer (07:03):
do you do now?
And actually, those guys came
back to me within two weeks, I
think it was, and went Change
plan. He's still available.
Could you? Could you, could you
come back? And I was like, Well,
if I do it slightly, yeah, and
Lea Turner (07:20):
charge them more, I
hope. Yeah. And that kicked
things off. You doing this for
other companies, yeah, and
you've been doing that ever
since, yeah. Now we will talk
about the other things that you
do, because I know you do
coaching and also dog
whispering. Clearly, I think
anyone who's watching this can
see my dog now fawning over
Laura and acting like he's never
(07:40):
been loved before. You treat
her. He doesn't do this with any
of the guests, so you've clearly
got a magic touch. He's proved
that. But you had a like, your
first few years in business. You
really flew, right? It was, it
was incredibly successful. It
was
Laura Pointer (08:00):
the easiest thing
in the world, yeah. And I know,
I know how much of an outlier I
am with that, and most people
don't land on their feet like I
did, yeah. So in like, I say,
I've been doing this sort of
work for 10 years as my own
business, since 2020 so coming
on for year five now, which
blows my mind, because I
(08:21):
remember sitting in my office,
room at home, deciding to do it,
and going, ooh, should I? Should
I? Should I? And then obviously
it worked, and it was fine. And
yeah, in those 10 years, up
until last year, which we'll go
into, but it was literally back
to back work. The longest I had
out of your contract was two
weeks, and that was by choice,
(08:43):
yeah, because that was me going,
You know what, I'm fucking
knackered. I would love to do
this work with you, but I need
to get my head like, I need a
reset. I need a break. Because
it's, it's, it's intense,
Lea Turner (08:55):
yeah, I was gonna
say, like, mentally, it's very,
like, intensely draining,
because you're constantly trying
to find patterns and solutions
and problem solving, which I
know for someone like you is so
much fun. Like you are
absolutely one of those people
that looks for problems to
solve, because it challenges
your brain and gets you excited.
(09:15):
It's the same with your dog
training. It's quite clear that
a
Laura Pointer (09:18):
dog problem or
whatever. The
Lea Turner (09:21):
dog has problems
that you know you can solve, so
you like to try and find the
combinations that that fix the
problem. And you know, that's a
that's something that I really
relate to, because I I get
bored. If there's not problems
to solve, I get bored. It's all
too easy. I need that next
challenge all the time. How did
you so those first four years,
no problem. Got all the clients.
(09:42):
Yeah, absolutely high flying.
Yep. Lifestyle improved.
Laura Pointer (09:46):
Lifestyle,
improved finances, improved
making investments. I Yeah. So
when I started, I had two dogs
by the end. Well, yeah, by the
end of the last big contract,
which was last year, I was up to
four. Yeah, and then one
suddenly passed away last April,
which was really shit, and broke
me a little bit, can't lie, was
really sudden, really
(10:06):
unexpected. And it was one of
those that, like, you know, with
hindsight, you can look back and
go, You know what? I'm really,
really glad she didn't suffer
for prolonged period of time,
because she was a German
Shepherd. We think it was
degenerative myopathy. So
actually, legs stopped working,
basically. So on the Friday, she
was fine. On the Sunday, her
(10:28):
back leg stopped working, so I
took her to the vets, they gave
her an injection, and she perked
up a little bit. But on the
Tuesday morning, her front legs
had stopped working, too, and
that was when I had to say
goodbye,
Lea Turner (10:39):
and that was in line
alongside, literally, the
business really taking a tumble
in terms of, what was it? What
do you think it was last year
that made the big difference?
What? Why did you why? Because
I'm assuming it wasn't anything
you did wrong. You weren't
suddenly cancelled by the
industry. No, I wasn't
Laura Pointer (10:59):
cancelled. Thank
God. And if anything, you know,
I've had people this year. It's
been the weirdest thing,
actually, because, like,
literally, as soon as 2025
kicked in. Yeah, I've had more
conversations in January, and
we're only on what it's 20th
today, no 21st the day we're
recording. I've had more
conversations in January, and
(11:21):
we're not even through the whole
month yet than I had throughout
the entirety of 2024
Lea Turner (11:26):
What do you think
was the difference in 2024 that
had such a dramatic impact? It's
so dramatic. I
Laura Pointer (11:32):
wish I knew is
the honest answer, but literally
everyone I spoke to, because So
in the previous 10 years, I
would have people harassing, and
that sounds wrong, but in the
nicest way, they'd be ringing me
up going, we've got this any
chance. And I'm like, actually,
I'm on this one at the minute, I
want to see a throw. And they
would ring me every month
almost. And there was always
opportunities coming at me. And
it was one of those, oh yeah Or
(11:53):
yeah, I'm doing this one. I'll
be back, you know, if they
Lea Turner (11:56):
can wait whatever,
and choose literally all of the
projects you cherry pick your
favourite ones, the clients you
like to work with. And then last
year, and
Laura Pointer (12:04):
then last year, I
was ringing them going, I
suppose you've got anything. And
literally, everyone's like, it's
a really bloody weird year,
Laura. And I'm like, that
doesn't fucking help. It's a
really weird year. Doesn't wash
with my mortgage provider. It
doesn't help with anything like
you just suddenly going from
like you say, back to back,
everything hunky dory, making
(12:25):
investments, saving away, having
a lovely life, having moved to
my, literally, my dream home.
Lea Turner (12:32):
Well, yeah, so it
coincided with you buying a home
that financially stretched you.
Yeah, that wasn't your scary
Laura Pointer (12:40):
when I bought it
because I was in a contract.
Yeah, and within three months of
moving in, contracts gone, not
Lea Turner (12:46):
to mention the fact
that you So you've now got five
now got and they're big dogs.
They are big dogs are not cheap
to insure, to feed, to look
after, correct. That's That
alone is a big outgoing on top
of the big mortgage. So while
we're not playing our tiny
little violins and sympathy for
you because you've had it,
you've Yeah, very you know you
(13:07):
you've had that privilege. And
you know how you recognise how
lucky you are, we both do like
but for those four years, you
coasted, yeah, quite
comfortably, really. And then
you got a big wake up, wake up.
Cool. Yeah, where do you think
that you can credit that all to
the industry was just weird, the
economy was weird. Or do you
(13:28):
feel like there were things
maybe that you weren't doing in
2022 2023 that that would have
maybe impacted 2024 more
positively?
Laura Pointer (13:40):
I think, as
irritating as it is, I wish it
was me, because I could have
changed that. But literally,
every single person like I even
know recruiters who were laid
off, who were specifically ERP
recruiters, I know another who's
now three days a week rather
than full time. Sorry, I'm being
(14:02):
distracted because my boys
looking at me. I you know, it's
just one of those. And I think
there were so many weird factors
last year as well. So you
obviously had the UK election,
you had the US election, you had
various budgetary things. I've
got contacts in Germany. They
were sort of saying, don't know
what the hell is going on this
(14:22):
year, but no one can make a
fucking decision like, what
Lea Turner (14:26):
is pulling their
belts in? Yeah, I think it was
Laura Pointer (14:29):
a mixture of
people putting their belts in
and trying to keep things as
tight and as lean as they could.
So rather than seeing working
with someone like me as an
investment for their business,
they were seeing it as an
expense, which isn't how it's
been perceived otherwise. And
also you just some of the
(14:51):
softwares are doing almost
sounds like I'm being
discriminatory and bad to though
I don't mean to be, but they're
doing almost a. Forced upgrade
this year. Some of them, the
previous versions, are coming to
the end of their life, and
they're almost forcing people
down a path of you kind of have
to go for this latest version,
right? Or you're out on your
(15:12):
ear. So it's kind of done you a
favour then, because so it's
coming back. There's a shed load
of people now kind of kicking
stuff off, because that is
coming into effect effectively
at the beginning of April. So
there's now a bunch of people
out there going, Oh, okay, we
can't afford the additional cost
of sticking on our old one. We
need a we need someone like you
who can come in and help us and
(15:32):
show us, because that's the
other thing as well, right? It's
one of those. Because I'm an
external I get to play the
middle ground. So I've got the
best interest of the business
who's working with me at heart,
but I will hold both sides to
account. So whether that's a
software provider or a partner
(15:53):
or whatever, I will point out to
them if they're staring them
down the wrong path, and
Lea Turner (15:58):
you are brutally
honest in the nicest way,
because we all know that. I love
people that are brutally honest.
You know exactly where you stand
with those people. There's never
any room for confusion. If
someone's
Laura Pointer (16:08):
got an ugly baby,
I will tell them. We can
Lea Turner (16:14):
tell you're not
really a kid person, more of a
dog person,
Laura Pointer (16:17):
right? There's no
such thing as an ugly dog.
Lea Turner (16:20):
I don't know what
those Chinese crusted ones are,
a bit odd,
Unknown (16:23):
but they're still kind
of endearing
Lea Turner (16:26):
Chinese Crested dogs
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first policy subject to
eligibility. Now back to the
conversation. But how did it
feel for you as a bit because
we're so used to talking about
the highs of business and seeing
people, you know, reflect on the
shit times when they're out of
them. Yeah, but you so you had
some really good news this
(17:49):
morning. You've got a contract.
Yep, this morning. So that's for
how long, six months minimum.
Brilliant. So that, I mean,
we've already celebrated, we've
already done because it's been
the first contract you've had in
a while. Yeah, it's
Laura Pointer (18:04):
been the first
long term one. So I had a very
small one in September, which
was so when with ERP stuff, what
you tend to find is that
companies have their main scope
of what they need to achieve.
And then there's normally what I
call the myth, of mythical beast
of a phase two, which most
businesses never get around to,
(18:25):
right? Because they're
effectively the nice to haves.
They're not the essentials that
they need to run the business,
but they're the nice little bits
that make it easier once the
essentials are in. Right? But
the problem with a phase two is
that generally, by the time the
business is at the point of
thinking about it, all the
consultancy support that they've
had, and everything else has
buggered off. So I was really
lucky that one of the partners
(18:47):
contacted me because they had a
small piece of phase two work in
September for one of their
clients. It was just a system
enhancement. So it was a week,
but it wasn't what I'm used to.
I'm used to almost full time
hours constantly on it. So I
mean, that was a lovely bit of
a, Oh, little breather.
Lea Turner (19:05):
But how did that
like, I can't imagine going from
working really full on you, um,
you work hard. You do long
hours. It's a lot of
concentration, obviously, with
allowances for the dogs, but
you're very tunnel visioned in
in focus project. Work hard.
Yep, deliver it on time. You're
so good with your clients. Spot
the ADHD, hyper focus, you've
(19:27):
gone from that to like, Oh, I've
got nothing to do. Yeah, that.
How did that affect you and your
confidence and your sort of day
to day life? Because I can't
really imagine not being Go, go,
go all the time. It's a it's a
really big change of pace,
Laura Pointer (19:41):
100% and also
really sounds stupid, but like
when I moved into the house, it
needed new windows and doors,
right? So when I first moved in,
it was draughty as hell. The
actual front door, you couldn't
open it from the outside. It was
Unknown (19:56):
brilliant. That's
useful. It's like extra.
Laura Pointer (20:00):
Security measure,
but I had to spend a small
bloody fortune on replacing all
of that. And again, it was one
of those moments of, okay, I was
almost delighted that it was
happening when it did, because I
was out of contract. I'm like,
Well, thank God I'm not dealing
with all the banging and the
workmen and everything else I'm
trying to do client calls. But
it was a lot of money that
(20:21):
actually in hindsight, you know,
when you're thinking shit, if
I'd have known I was going to be
out for this long, I wouldn't
have done the doors and windows
last year. I'd have waited. I'd
have had another chilly winter,
yeah, but I'd have had that
money in my ass pocket, and it
would have been breathing space,
because none of us thought that
it was going to be that sort of
a year. And there's so many
people who do what I do that,
(20:42):
you know, I'm in contact with on
LinkedIn and places like that,
and they're all just like, I
think I'm just gonna have to
bite the bullet and go and get a
proper job or whatever. And you
let that cross your mind. Did it
cross my mind? Yes, and no. I
mean, it
Lea Turner (20:56):
would be very
difficult with
Laura Pointer (20:57):
the dogs. Yeah,
that's the no bit, because my
dogs, they're not, they're not
Bronson, they're not the sort of
dog I could either take with me
or put in daycare. As you know,
I only take on what I
affectionately call the nutters
with issues,
Lea Turner (21:13):
the ones families
won't adopt, yeah, or anyone
without dog expertise will
adopt, yeah.
Laura Pointer (21:19):
So they can't be
flung in kennels or daycare or
anything like that, or take him
with me, so I've never
Lea Turner (21:24):
put him in that. I'm
a I'm not a clingy mum in terms
of my son, but I'm a clingy dog
mom.
Baby. He was my first baby, and
I learned to be unselfish with
my wants and needs with him,
yeah, and he was my little like
(21:45):
he's my emotional support animal
who's betrayed me today. So what
did you do if you had all of
that time free? You had,
obviously the dogs to invest
your time with, but what? How
did you keep yourself busy when
you've gone from working 4050,
hours a week, or, if not more,
to I've got no work to do, what
(22:06):
did you do instead? What did I
do instead?
Laura Pointer (22:08):
I A viewed
finding my next contract almost
as a full time job, right? And
actually doing what? Which
meant, contacting recruiters,
making connections with people
on LinkedIn, having
conversations with people and
just being the annoying person,
going, hi. Remember me still
available? But also that's when
(22:29):
I decided to do the coaching
certification, because it was
like, well, if I'm not being
used in a work capacity, how can
I keep my brain active? What
else can I bring to the party?
And actually, knowing that, you
know, initially, I was a bit
wary about offering dog training
as a service as well. And it was
actually thanks to Hayley
Duggan, who I know from
(22:49):
LinkedIn, who is the reason I
have Reggie malimoir, It's all
her fault. And she was like, you
know, you are more than
qualified. Look at your dogs.
Look at the dogs they were
before they joined you, and the
dogs they are today. She's like,
you don't need an accreditation.
You've got the lived experience
of transforming these dogs like
you can help your bog standard
(23:09):
average pet home with their
issues. I was like, Okay. And
then it was like, well, if I'm
doing that, then actually maybe
some of the coaching skills a
would play out and help with dog
training, because a lot of it,
the dogs pick up really quickly.
The time is actually spent on
training the bloody humans. That
doesn't surprise me, because
they just get into habit, right?
(23:30):
And you know the amount of them,
I'm like, relax your arm,
because they're like, holding it
up by the chin, almost, because
they're expecting the dog to
pull and be a dickhead. But the
dog's now walking very happily.
But they're just on autopilot
because they've spent the last
however long being panicked and
being dragged around, but also
knowing that the coaching stuff
would play out well with my ERP
clients when I got those going
(23:52):
again as well, because so much
of the issues that you get in
ERP is actually change it's the
change management piece, because
project management's great, and
that's how you get shit done.
But if you genuinely want it to
stick and you genuinely want it
to be adopted, you've got to
deal with the fears that people
are feeling and get them on that
(24:14):
journey with you as to a why the
business is doing it. Because
people, if they're not, if that
isn't explained to them, they
will inevitably just recreate
what they've always done,
because that's all they've
known. I mean, I even had one
who tried to tell me that they
(24:34):
needed to create all of their
employees as suppliers on the
system to pay their expenses. I
was like, but you have the HR
module of the system, which has
an expenses module. You don't
need to do that anymore. What
you're telling me is you need to
pay expenses. What we now need
to look at is how we can best do
that in your new system, not how
you've always done it. And if
the bosses and the powers that
(24:55):
be aren't actually telling their
staff we want you. To make
improvements here. We want you
to give us stuff we haven't had
before, because that's why
they're making that multi
million pound investment. They
don't just want the same share
in a shiny new system. They want
better. And if the staff don't
know that, they will just do
(25:15):
what they've always done,
because that's what they believe
their job is. I mean,
Lea Turner (25:18):
we're the same as
entrepreneurs or business owners
as well, aren't we? We get so
comfortable with what we are
already doing, even if what
we're doing is difficult and
making it unnecessarily
complicated for ourselves, which
we are all guilty of at some
point. If we don't know a better
system, you don't know what you
don't know. I'm really guilty of
this. I i will try something
new, and I'll I'll like certain
(25:39):
features, but then I will go
back to what's familiar, because
it's easier, even if it's not
actually easier. If I if I've
dedicated more time to learning
the new thing to work it
properly, it will be more
efficient, but it will take me
so long to learn the new thing,
that's it, right? I can't be
bothered. I'll just carry on
struggling. And
Laura Pointer (25:58):
that's exactly
the same for the corporate
employees, right? They starting
a new system. Can sometimes feel
to them that they they no longer
know how to do their day job.
And if they've been in that
business for 20 years or however
long, suddenly feeling like the
new person all over again. It's
like going from easy to Mac,
right, or like, and I was saying
to someone else this morning,
like, it's one of those that you
(26:19):
almost have to think about it
like when you first got the
first time you ever sat in a
car, you first ever driving
lesson, yeah, right. And you're
sitting in there and you're
thinking, right, okay, key in
the ignition, seat belts on. Are
the mirrors in the right bloody
place? Yeah? Okay. So foot on
the clutch, turn the key. Oh
God, the engine's making a
noise. Okay, shit, right. Okay.
So foot on the clutch again,
into first gear, find the bike
(26:42):
point, let go the handbrake. Oh,
my God, the damn thing's moving.
Shit. Okay, I'm actually
driving. Fuck, fuck, fuck,
right? And you have that. But
then a year down the line, so on
autopilot, you're 100% on
autopilot. You're up and down
the bloody motorway. You've got
the tunes blaring. You're
singing your head off.
Lea Turner (26:56):
I get to places and
I go, I can't even remember
driving, and I've completely
forgotten because it's so on
autopilot exactly that.
Laura Pointer (27:04):
And it's the same
with using a system, but like
muscle memory is a thing, and
people know where to click and
they know what to do, even if
it's the jankiest clunky as
shittest system in existence
that's well out of date, people
cling onto it like a comfort
blanket because it's familiar
and that new thing and trying to
explain to them that this is
going to make your life them
that this is going to make your
(27:27):
life better
Lea Turner (27:28):
and how to use an
iPhone, or trying to teach my
mum's husband, you can have
accounting systems. You don't
have to write everything down in
a book. But I know that that's
their generation, and that's how
things were done, and I
completely respect that, but it
is, as they say, it's hard to
teach old dogs new tricks, not
in your experience, because you
are an expert. I love how that
(27:48):
just works so seamlessly, but it
is when you get used to things,
because we are not comfortable
with being bad at things. Yeah,
right, exactly that, and
especially
Unknown (27:59):
as adults, yeah.
Lea Turner (28:00):
When was the last
time you started something brand
new that you sucked at and had
to learn from scratch? It feels
really uncomfortable to be crap
at something, yeah, and it's
probably held me back from like,
I've quite, I'd quite like to
learn a new like, a language, a
language other than sarcasm in
English, right? But I am so
(28:23):
insecure about saying the wrong
thing and doing it badly, yeah,
because I'm so used to being so
good at speaking English and
never having to worry that the
idea of being crap at speaking
Thai or French or Spanish, yeah,
and people misunderstanding me
and thinking, just share this,
but I just don't do it. And so
(28:45):
how have you like when you made
that transition to going out as
a consultant on your own, did
you have any doubts about
yourself as a business owner?
Because obviously you knew the
thing that you needed to sell,
that the service that you
offered. You knew that like the
back of your hand. Where were
the bits that you struggled
with? As
Laura Pointer (29:02):
silly as it
sounds, the bits I struggled
with the most, I think, as basic
as it sounds, was pricing and
actually knowing my worth and my
value. And I think that came
from the fact, like I said, I'd
been doing it as a temp for
years anyway, and when you're
doing it just as a temp, you
don't get the consultant day
(29:22):
rates. You just don't know. And
again, you just,
Lea Turner (29:28):
you've an agency
takes a nice big chunk of the
agency takes a lovely chunk and
Laura Pointer (29:31):
fair play to
them, because they're obviously
opening the doors for you and
all the rest of it, which is
great. And recruiters definitely
Lea Turner (29:38):
the agencies. But
recruiters absolutely have that
yes, for sure, and
Laura Pointer (29:42):
you know, I
wouldn't have got the contract I
got this morning, actually, had
it not been for a recruiter who
I had a lovely chat with via
LinkedIn last week. So you know,
they absolutely have their
place, but it's a different
style of recruiter when you're
going through a specialist in an
ERP world than it is through a
generic 10 pages. See kind of a
vibe. Do you know what I mean?
Not Ethan,
Lea Turner (30:02):
with his
highlighted, spiky blonde hair
and
Laura Pointer (30:06):
and it's when
you've kind of come from that,
and then you kind of go, Oh,
you, you think I can earn that,
okay? And that feels like a
massive step up. Now I'd be
like, not doing it for that,
like, you need to up it all wee
bit.
Lea Turner (30:23):
So how much? And we
are not asking for specific
figures, but like in percentage
increase, or how many times?
What were you how much did it go
up within, like, that first six
months or a year, like, or how
did you know when it nearly
doubled? Nearly doubled. Yeah,
and that was your day rate
nearly doubled. Yeah, and, and
(30:43):
what about since?
Laura Pointer (30:44):
Since I've just
through choice, I've almost kept
it at the same level, because,
and again, I know I've got, in
the back of my head, I've got
the lovely Donna Elliot, who I
know, you know, as part of the
community too, going, you know,
I'm just like, oh, that's
enough. And she's like, you're
worth more than enough. I get
(31:05):
this.
Lea Turner (31:07):
I had the same
situation with the LinkedIn
training and with the community
as well people. You could charge
more, you could charge more. And
while I know what I do is worth
it, I want it to be accessible
to the types of people I want to
work with, yeah, and when I was
doing the LinkedIn training, I
had got to a price point where
(31:29):
people were happily paying it,
and I was really enjoying the
people that I was working with.
Yeah, I felt unaligned, not
because I didn't believe that
what I did was worth that money,
because I did, and I had the
proof, yeah. People were getting
the value from it. They were
getting the clients absolutely,
yeah, but because I knew that
the people who needed my help
(31:49):
the most, who would benefit the
most, yeah, were not people that
could afford that. Yeah. And
when I started the community, I
was determined to create
something that was in inverted
commas, a low ticket, yeah,
because the people I knew I
really wanted to help were the
people at the beginning of the
journey, yeah, who needed that
extra support, that community
(32:11):
help, who didn't have it all
figured out yet? Yeah. And for
me, I wanted to help the people
that I was five years ago when I
first started out and I'm I
still am, now, I'm still
figuring out those were my
targets, and it wasn't about how
much they earned, it was how
much support they needed and how
much education and how much they
would benefit from what. And it
(32:32):
doesn't matter, it's and it's
not about money mindset. I'm
it's not, I'm not worth a
million pounds. I don't want to
have an offer that is so much
because it's so limiting with
Laura Pointer (32:44):
and it's one of
those I know, for one of my old
clients, when I left them, I
actually had a conversation with
a lady in procurement who was
like, You need to charge more.
And I was like, Why do you say
that? Like, she's like, because
you're leaving. I'm like, yeah.
She's like, they're having to
hire four people to cover what
you did. She's like, you weren't
charging four people's worth of
(33:05):
person. I
Lea Turner (33:07):
mean, that that does
make any and it was
conversations with people like
that that made me put up my
prices. Yeah, and I kept having
those conversations. But at the
at some point, you have to
decide that it what is it money?
Is it impact? What is the thing
that I'm driven by? And I'm sure
the companies would pay you more
because you're working with
(33:28):
companies. Yeah, I've got those
kinds of budgets when you're
working with like individuals,
like with the coaching clients,
like with the dog training, if
you price that so high that you
were only working with like,
tonnes of money. It
Laura Pointer (33:41):
would reveal that
help exactly matter. And with
the dog training store,
Lea Turner (33:45):
a bad dog is a bad
dog. Exactly the expert. Whether
you're throwing 1000s of pounds
at an expert or 50 quid an hour
at an expert, they still need
help with their dog. Yeah, and
the dog deserves that help.
That's exactly it's having that
guidance of what the impact you
want to have is, yeah, and
Laura Pointer (34:01):
that's exactly
the stance I've done with the
dog training. For me, it's the
fact that I know I can help
these people. I know I've got
proof now of I think there's
been at least 10 of them through
the doors who have been
genuinely like, this is a
different dog. What have you
done to my dog? And I know I've
been able to help them, but I've
(34:22):
also made a point of not doing
it, a price point that feels
icky to me, I guess, because I
want to help the dog. At the end
of the day, it's not really
about the human, because there
are so many dogs in rescues. You
Lea Turner (34:34):
kind of thing for
free anyway, pretty much, but
Laura Pointer (34:37):
it's like, you
know, there are so many dogs you
still have to pay. So many dogs
end up in rescue through no
fault of their own, and a lot of
it is either poorly researching
the breed or just falling in
love with the puppy and then not
realising what it's going to
turn into. But you know, I think
one of the factors with many
dogs that isn't spoken about
enough is, you know, as much as
I don't agree with like people
(34:58):
going, oh, there's no such thing
as a bad dog. Which is bad
owners, no genetics of the
animal. Certain dogs and certain
breeds have been bred to perform
a task. It's like you will see
videos on Tiktok and whatever,
of like an eight week old Border
Collie herding sheep. Yeah, not
because it's been taught how to
do it, but it's just part of its
(35:18):
DNA. It knows what to do.
Lea Turner (35:20):
You see, the same
with children? I never my son
was, you know, all of his toys
were like gender neutral, until
he started going to a local play
group, and the first thing he
did was toddled straight towards
a box full of cars. And for the
next three years, he was car
obsessed. I'd never bought him a
toy car. He had no there was no
conditioning or pushing from me.
But he'd gone to the cars, not
(35:41):
the dolls, and that was just the
way. It's dogs. You know, we're
there is a certain amount of
there is, but
Laura Pointer (35:48):
it's actually
working with that nurture,
working with the genes of the
dog and the breed of the dog,
and actually fulfilling what it
needs as that particular
species.
Lea Turner (35:58):
It's fascinating how
you've just got this brain that
spots problems and then finds
solutions. And do you think
that's like a neurodiverse
thing? Because I finally I find
I see patterns, yeah, not in
terms of things like ERP systems
that would like data and systems
and anything remotely technical,
my brain is instantly fried,
(36:19):
like, yeah, just go, nope,
absolutely
Unknown (36:21):
not walk away in
Lea Turner (36:23):
the business,
because I just, I couldn't
possibly manage it myself. But
when it comes to, like, business
problems, and I'm like, Well,
this is the thing that struggle
you're struggling with, and this
is a result it's having, and
this is what you want to happen.
Why don't we try this as this?
Yeah, and I love that. Do you
think that's a neurodiverse
thing? It may well be
Laura Pointer (36:40):
because I've,
I've had exactly that so many
times with clients, yeah? And
literally, they look at you and
go, Oh my God, you're a fucking
genius. And you're like, and
it's the written it to you. So
it's the most obvious thing in
the bloody world. It's like, how
did you not see that?
Lea Turner (36:53):
I find that. And so
you see the same thing with
dogs, yeah? You just instantly
know, yeah. And I mean, it's, it
goes to show that you've got
something innate in you that
dogs respond to. Because quite
honestly, my dog has never been
has never abandoned me like
this,
Laura Pointer (37:10):
but like even
seven year old me, if I was like
I remember our neighbours had an
anxious dog. She was a
collycross called Annie, and
like the owners had kind of said
to my parents, you know, just
she's not really a fan of kids
or whatever else. No one had had
this conversation with me, and
they came out of their house one
day, and I'm literally sat cross
(37:31):
legged on the floor outside
their back door gate, just
having a chat with Annie. We
were having a lovely time, just
like Bronson and I are right
now. I'm Annie's like this with
me, and they came up, like,
Lea Turner (37:43):
I'm like, she
doesn't do that wicked. So is my
son. And it's something about
your, like, calm energy, or
something like that, that they
can sense you're not in danger
to them and they and they're
softer with you. It's beautiful
to see. But he's obviously, you
know, even if
Laura Pointer (37:57):
you haven't
called him a traitor several
Lea Turner (38:00):
times, it's okay. I
can, I can deal with it. It's,
it's weird recording without
having him to stroke my hands.
Feel like I don't know what to
do with my hands. So in terms
of, like, where you are at the
with the business now, you got
the contract this morning. So
hooray. Next six months are
sorted. Yeah, dogs, the dog
babies can be fed. They can
What? What is your plan long
(38:21):
term, sort of looking ahead,
because you've obviously
discovered this real passion for
the dog training. Do you have
any do you have any kind of
insight as to what, what that
looks like in the future, like?
Would the systems thing be left
behind? Will there be a business
built around part
Laura Pointer (38:37):
of me thinks so.
I mean, Ian Dempsey knows this,
oh,
Lea Turner (38:44):
is an exclusive, I
guess so.
Laura Pointer (38:46):
Part of me thinks
that maybe I could build what is
my current ERP business into
more of an agency model and have
more me's out doing the me work,
right? I love that, because
obviously, when it's just you,
you hit capacity very quickly.
But ultimately, the dream, and I
can't believe I'm saying this
out loud, so it definitely means
(39:06):
it's gonna have to happen, um,
is to bugger off to
Unknown (39:09):
Italy. Oh, with the
with all the dogs, with all the
dogs, right? And buy a vineyard.
Laura Pointer (39:15):
Oh, that's gonna
be producing vineyard. I don't
know, in my head, it's gonna be
Prosecco, because I want to call
it fizz farm. Yeah, so I can
have my crazy rescue crew,
right? And I can just make
Prosecco, and I can employ
people to make the Prosecco,
because I only know how to drink
it.
Lea Turner (39:31):
We need to do is add
some cheese in there, and that's
Yeah, but
Laura Pointer (39:34):
I'm vegan, so
that doesn't work for me. Oh,
yeah. So, you know, do the
prosecco the peop. I can pay the
people. It can pay me enough me
and the dogs can have a lovely
time.
Lea Turner (39:45):
I mean, during life,
I would so just sort of time
we've gone, covered so much
ground, and it's been such a
random conversation, but I've
really enjoyed it. If there's a
bit of advice, you could look
back and say, Hey, Laura. Yeah,
and sort of 2023 2022 Laura, so
at the beginning, but not right
(40:05):
at the beginning. If you do this
or change this, things are going
to be a little bit easier for
the next few years. Yeah. What
would you say?
Laura Pointer (40:14):
Don't take the
contract where they negotiate
you down, right? Because I've
had that and I took those
contracts initially, like you
were saying earlier, because I
didn't have the reserves I had
this last year to get me through
and whatever else. And it was
like, oh shit, I'm out of work.
I need to take something. But
the companies that negotiated me
(40:35):
down and all the rest of it were
micromanaging as fuck. Oh,
Lea Turner (40:39):
this is so true,
though it's the one to argue
price that you go, I don't want
to, like, at the time and at the
beginning, you will absolutely
take contracts and work with
clients that will undercut you
or, like, like, talk you down on
price. I definitely accepted,
yep, prices that I never should
have accepted when I'm when I
started my transcription
(40:59):
business, I was working for
like, like, yeah, really, really
low. It was embarrassingly low.
But I didn't need that income to
survive. And then it started
having to go up when it was,
like, my sole income, yeah, I
can't possibly survive on that.
But you do realise, and I hate
to say it, because it's such a
cliche. Things people say, but
the more a client is paying, the
(41:21):
easier it is to get the money
out of them. Yep, and they are
much less bothered by
micromanaging, and they're
Laura Pointer (41:27):
much more
inclined to just let you do the
job they've brought you in to
do, because that's why they've
hired
Lea Turner (41:32):
and you like that if
you outsource anything? Are you
like that? Because I know that,
because I've got clients that
pay me a lot, or have have had
clients. Obviously, that was the
last business I would they would
hire me, pay me a big sum, and
then just let me get on with it
and do the thing and not
constantly harass me or bother
me. It was just like, crack on,
(41:52):
get on with it. And I never had
to chase them for money, and I
didn't have to, like, negotiate
anything, yeah. Now I'm that
person. I hire other experts,
I'm like, if I'm hiring you,
it's because you're better at
the thing than I am 100% so why
am I going to be going, well,
you should do it the way you
think it's supposed to be done,
(42:13):
is how it's supposed to be done,
right? Yeah, that you trust
Exactly. Made that mistake. I
have made mistakes, yeah, and
probably should have managed
people a little bit closer they
weren't the right person for the
job. My email marketer, I'm just
like, crack on. You. Do your
thing, because I know you're
going to do it better than I
ever could. Yeah, that's why
I've hired you. And I learned so
much from watching him, and I
still don't want to do it
(42:34):
myself. He's still always going
to do it better. He's an expert.
So do you find that that's
exactly reflected with your
Laura Pointer (42:41):
Yeah, 100% and
like, you know, it's things like
the accountant and that sort of
stuff, you know. And I'm just
like, I haven't got a
counselling training, I would
have a bloody clue. Like, if
that's what I need to do, that's
what I need to do, if you need
me to say that's okay, then I'll
say it's okay. So how
Lea Turner (42:53):
do you manage to
find the people that you trust
to be that hands off? Because I
feel like at some stage I'm
going to get burned, because I'm
so trusting with my team that
are now. I don't think that the
team that I have would do yes,
they're never say that, because
they're all exceptional. They've
been with me a long time, and I
really trust them, but I could
(43:14):
easily be burned by that
because, but
Laura Pointer (43:17):
I guess for me,
I've gone down the route mostly
of the people I work with in
that regard who support me have
been people who've been
recommended to me by people that
I know and trust. Yeah, and you
know, if it was just bill down
the pub or whatever, yeah, I'm
not going to go off that
recommendation. Do you know what
I mean? Yeah, whereas, if it's
(43:38):
someone who I know does a
similar thing to me, or has got
similar experiences and wants to
do well and wants to build their
own business. And they're
saying, You know what, this
person is, a really good person
to work with, great
Lea Turner (43:49):
and that just goes
to sort of prove why having like
communities and memberships
where you are building those,
those networks of so valuable,
because you just never know when
a referral is going to come in.
Like, literally, this morning,
someone said in the community,
does anyone know a good
conveyancing solicitor? And I
was like, Yeah, my mortgage
brokers recommended one to me.
Can't remember his name.
Immediately, got a
recommendation of someone I
(44:09):
trust, who I previously worked
with, who are sensational, yeah,
and they were, they were
fantastic during my house sale.
And, you know, they've
capitalised off the trust that
I've built with this person has
so, I mean, it works so well.
There's, I don't think I've ever
gone into the community and
said, Does anyone know someone
like, insert profession? Yeah,
and, and there's not been a
(44:31):
brilliant number of
recommendations. Come back, and
I've had loads of options. Or
someone in there does the thing
and I can hire them. Yeah, for
the last two years, I don't
think I've hired anyone that,
outside of the community. It's
amazing. Laura, thank you so
much for coming on the podcast.
It's been so happy to you at
some point
Laura Pointer (44:47):
for having me.
Bronson, all evening, I just get
you in the car with me. She
won't know
Lea Turner (44:57):
my life without him.
It's been such a treat to chat
with you. You and to finally
meet you in person. So thank you
so much. Thank you. Supporting
small business owners is my
biggest passion, and that's what
my membership community the HoLT
is all about. Inside the HoLT
are more than 150 master classes
from experts in every business
(45:17):
skill you could ever want, and
we add more every single month.
There are also sales clinics,
tech clinics, well being,
support and advice and discounts
on a huge range of software and
services. But it's so much more
than just trainings and
resources. Everyone inside the
HoLT shares their years of
knowledge and experience
generously with kindness and
(45:39):
without judgement. They're super
active. The chat channels are
buzzing, and it's like having
600 business cheerleaders in
your pocket, willing you to
succeed and helping you wherever
they can. And we offer all of
this and much more at an
extremely low price, because we
know that budgets are tight when
you're bootstrapping a business,
(46:00):
the HoLT is a kind, inclusive
and non judgmental place where
everyone knows that working
together is the fastest way to
succeed, and it makes it a whole
lot more fun. We would love for
you to join us. You can check
out the full details on the
dash, halt.com, or if
communities aren't really your
vibe and you just want access to
(46:20):
the hundreds of expert
masterclass recordings with a
combined value of more than
10,000 pounds, you can access
the vault right now for just 20
pounds per month. The Vault is
all the master classes with none
of the chat or distractions,
just pure value. Visit
the-holt.com/vault to sign up
and start bingeing your way
through brilliant trainings from
(46:41):
leading experts. You
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