Enhancing Emotional Resilience for Entrepreneurs with James Elliott

How emotionally resilient are you?

As business owners you’ll swing from pure elation at that latest deal, to punishing lows when times are tough, so you need to be emotionally resilient to just get past lunch time.

That’s why in this episode I invited my psychotherapist, James Elliott, on to the show to discuss what emotional resilience actually is and how you can enhance yours.

James delves into the importance of understanding your emotions first, to then be able to manage them effectively. We also explore what thought court is, an incredible tool that has helped me in those moments of self-deprecation.

We’ve all been there in those tough times, but as business owners we need to be able to perform at our best, and that doesn’t mean ice baths at 5am. It means being able to navigate challenges effectively.

So, listen up as James shares brilliant advice to help get you emotionally resilient.

 

“The more you understand your emotional state the easier it is to manage” – James Elliott

 

You’ll hear about:

• Why understanding emotions is key to managing them effectively.
• How your self-efficacy plays a crucial role in overcoming challenges.
• Your childhood experiences shape your adult beliefs and behaviours.
• What is paradoxical intent and how it can guide behaviour towards success.
• Mental resilience being vital for navigating the pressures of business.

 

Connect with James:

 

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-elliott-msc-8360a41b5/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jameselliottofficial/?hl=en

James’ Website - https://james-elliott.mykajabi.com/

 

Read James’ book – Think Yourself Resilient - https://shorturl.at/vd9eN

Check out James’ courses and resources  - https://shorturl.at/h9oCK

 

Connect with me:

 

My website - https://leaturner.co.uk/

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/lea-turner/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/leaturnerholt

 

Find out about The HoLT:

 

The HoLT - https://www.the-holt.com/

The HoLT on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/theholt

The HoLT on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/theholtcommunity/

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theholtcommunity 

The Vault - https://www.the-holt.com/vault

Join The Holt waiting list - https://www.the-holt.com/waitlist

This podcast is sponsored by QDos. Use the code LEA10 at the checkout to get your discount when signing up - https://my.qdoscontractor.com/code/10255/115219

Episode Transcript

James Elliott (00:00):
Learn to improve

(00:01):
what it is you're feeling. Learn
to label your emotions
correctly. Understand what's
going on in your body and why it
feels the way that it feels, and
what's going on and why and how
you can understand those
feelings. The more you can
understand your emotional state,
the easier it becomes to manage.
If you eat like a successful
entrepreneur and sleep like then
look after your health like a
successful entrepreneur, if you
work like a successful
entrepreneur, and you have, like

(00:22):
the friendships around you, and
you have the environment, and
you have all of those are you
far more likely to become a
successful entrepreneur if
you're doing everything right,
that paradoxical intent is going
to lead you to where you want to
be.

Lea Turner (00:42):
You Hi James, hello.
Welcome to the halt, Survival
Guide for small businesses.
Thank you so much for having me.
I really appreciate to start
with how far you've driven
today, because you have come a
long way.

James Elliott (00:54):
I have I've come
from Essex. I've come from from
Colchester, the greatest city on
the planet, to to Manchester
today, four and a half hours, I
think it took me just Mancunians
are going to argue that one,
yeah, yeah, I thought I'd sat on
a really good foot. They will
hate me. So, yeah. So I

Lea Turner (01:10):
have a really
specific reason for why I've
brought you here, and I'm going
to ask you a little bit to tell
us a little bit more about what
you do in a second. But for
context, James has been my
psychotherapist over the last
couple of years. He's someone
that I've turned to in times of
need, and he is a renowned
expert on mental resilience. And
the reason I invited you to come

(01:31):
on today is I know that mental
resilience is a skill that
business owners need, yeah, for
sure, and we want to try and dig
into some some ways that we can
improve that. So why don't you
tell us a little bit about what

James Elliott (01:44):
reform what you
do well? Thank you for saying
first pharmacy that I'm
renowned. I think that anybody
who tends to excel in any sort
of their professional career
always then really struggles to
hear that they're excelling in
their professional career. I
think that's probably something
a lot of your business owners
would relate to. When someone
says they're doing really well,
it never really feels like
you're doing that well,

Lea Turner (02:03):
yes, I move along.
Yeah. Next subject, yeah, right.

James Elliott (02:07):
Yeah. I won. I
won resilience Coach of the Year
in 2024 2023 Wow. And I was
nominated for a good social
coaching award at Harvard
University. And I when people
say, Well, you're doing really
well. You go, I'm not. And this
is, didn't you write a book that
went like 25th in the world? And
you go, oh yeah, I did, but I'm

(02:27):
still not doing that great, so
it's really hard. But thank you.
And that's, you know, often, a
very common reflection where we
struggle to see our own
progress. But yeah, so I'm a
psychotherapist, and I focus on
the development of resilience.
So solution based therapy, I
help people identify their
emotions. What's going on.
Emotional vernacular is
terrible. I think it was

(02:49):
Voltaire who said the limit of
your language is the limit of
your world. In a really
fascinating study done by Brene
Brown in the financial quarter
of New York, the average person
could only, I think it was
three, accurately decipher three
emotions which was happy, angry
or sad, right? Yeah. So I help
people identify, first and

(03:09):
foremost, see what it is they're
actually feeling like getting to
that, and then understanding
like the source of that really
understand, like, why am I
feeling? In this way, we can
understand that every single
attitude, behaviour, belief, is
a is a conditioned response to
the world, either through
childhood or environment or
epigenetics, like we are feeling
the way that we feeling for a
reason. Then I teach them how to
control it, and then I teach
them how to use sort of critical

(03:31):
thinking skills to come to an
objective and rational action.
You know, it's, it's it's that
classic people say it is what it
is, but I don't buy that. That's
not resilient. It is what I
choose to make it is a much
better way, and I understand why
people stand on the hill and die
on the hill. Of it is what it is
that's kind of the OG stoicism
response from the dichotomy of
control is you can control your

(03:53):
attitude and your effort, and
you can't control everything
else. But sort of more modern
approaches to stoicism identify
a trichotomy of control, which
there are things that I can
control, my attitude, my effort.
There are things that I cannot
control, but there are things
that I can influence. Think
health is a great example of
that. Health is a great example
I can't control not getting an
awful terminal diagnosis of
something horrendous next year,

(04:14):
but I can influence my chances
of not by looking after my
health. So there's that. So my
therapy is very much based
around finding solutions,
helping people understand and
accept their emotional state,
manage it, and then find
solutions to it. And really the
origins of that came from
working with athletes. So I'm ex
military. I spent 14 years in
the British Army. I was in the

(04:35):
Airborne Forces. I was in seven
pirates a for 12 years, and then
I finished my career with the
reserves, with parachute
regiment for two years, and what
I found was that I had to take
some time for my mental health.
I was really struggling, and I
was working at Colchester rugby
club doing their strength
conditioning. And what I found
doing the strength conditioning
was how much I connected with
the players on a really
emotional level, and actually

(04:56):
finding what made these young
athletes tick. And. I learned
lots about actually, how talent
is a real curse, and I learned
lots about privilege, and
understood far more about
privilege and childhood and
upbringings, and why people
think the way that they do, and
how to connect with people from
different backgrounds. It was
such an amazing opening
experience for me. And then I
realised that a lot of the
psychological issues being faced

(05:17):
by athletes were the same about
soldiers, high performance, lots
of pressure, fighting for the
badge on your chest, but in the
military case, the cat badge.
And it was off at the back of
that that I then went to brise
Norton and became a parachuting
instructor, one of the British
armies first, there were eight
of us who were picked to become
British Army parachuting
instructors. And I realised that

(05:37):
actually we could, or I could
be, applying what I learned
about key psychological skills
with athletes to young soldiers,
and I started studying sports
psychology, and I started
applying that, and it was a huge
like, improvement in
performance. If you could get
people to do things like
visualise and manage anxiety, if
you've got people to, like, have
more faith in who they were and
their capabilities, and see
things more logically, and doing
calming responses and all that

(05:58):
type of stuff, you know, like
jumping out of an aircraft is
objectively scary. It's even
scary when you've never been on
an aircraft before. And it's
even scary when it's military,
because it's a low level
parachute, it's a static line,
and you've got lots of weight
tied to your legs, and
everything is going extremely
quickly, and there's a huge
amount of pressure. And from
that, the British Army
Headquarters went, Well, this is
a interesting thing you've got

(06:18):
going on here. And took me out
of the parachute training
school, maybe second in command
of British Army's mental
resilience training as he ran
resilience training for the
south of the UK, which was just

Lea Turner (06:28):
And that's that's
exactly why I've asked him to be
on the podcast. Because
honestly, when you talk about
like, high performance athletes,
high performance sports people,
high performance soldiers and
military people, there's
obviously parallels we can draw
to business ownership. Obviously
it's no the risk isn't death
usually or severe physical

(06:51):
injury usually, but there's
definitely propensity towards
high performance and a lot of
pressure, whether that's
pressure that we put on
ourselves, whether that's
pressure from the from our
responsibilities that we feel
like we need to fulfil because
we need to make enough money to
keep our family alive. So
obviously that those parallels
them, mental resilience is super
important. In business, there

(07:11):
are constant, unpredictable
things that are thrown up
feelings that we have inside
ourselves that hold us back. So
what in your experience, and I
know you've worked with a lot of
business owners, what are the
most common themes that you see
popping up in business owners
and working age people? Yeah,

(07:33):
that they struggle with the most
well,

James Elliott (07:35):
I think first and
foremost, people constantly
trying to predict and control
either the unpredictable or the
uncontrollable. I tried to
reframe the situation so that
individuals can understand that,
that it doesn't matter what
happens, you will be okay. So
it's about developing that sense
of self efficacy. And there's
lots of like, fantastic
references to this throughout
pop culture, for our

(07:55):
understandings, for our
individuals. You know, so many
athletes say, you know, it
doesn't matter who the guy I'm
fighting is, it doesn't matter
what the enemy is. It doesn't
matter what game she plays. I
have every faith in my capacity
and my capability. So it's about
developing that self efficacy.
If an individual believes
themselves capable of managing a
situation, quite often they are
so one of the things we would
have to explore is because it

(08:15):
raises that inevitable question
of, Why don't you believe
yourself capable of managing
situations? Why don't you
believe yourself capable of
managing what unpredictability
or or managing challenge?
Because lots of people think,
well, I can't do that. And
actually, of course, you can,
like Muhammad Ali says, It's not
the mountain which tires you
out, but it's the stone in your
shoe. And quite often, people

(08:36):
have this like negative self
belief that they can't achieve
something when the only
difference between them and a
person who has achieved that
thing is the person simply
believed that they could, so
they just went and did the
behaviour. So one of the first
things that I would do is say,
Well, why don't you believe
yourself capable? And where do
we learn that? Is that a courage
thing, or is that a conditioning
thing? Because a child, an

(08:56):
infant, doesn't like courage. A
child, an infant, will climb up
on a kitchen side and try and
grab a glass from the top shelf.
And then so actually we
condition fear into children,
yeah. And so then how does that
then project into your adult
life people who believe
themselves incapable or unworthy
of doing something? Is that
because they lack courage, or is
that because they've had the
wrong conditioning? And if
that's something that has been
learned, is that something that

(09:17):
can be unlearned? Can we teach a
different pattern of behaviour?
And that's really where, like
the huge advancements in
neurobiology step in, you know,
great pioneers of neurobiology,
like Bessel van der Kolk and
like Robert Sapolsky, who have
done these amazing researches
into how the brain responds to
information and fear and
emotional state. And what we can
do, we have this process that
we're understanding even better,

(09:38):
called neuroplasticity, which is
how the brain realigns neurons
to new information, and using
the process of neuroplasticity,
can we convince people of a new
fate for them, of a new
capacity, of a new capability?
Just because somebody, when you
were a child, said you're not
capable, don't do that. Smack
them, shouted at them, made them
feel small and insignificant,
definitely carried that into
adulthood. But if you say, well,

(09:59):
actually, let. To look at the
evidence. Let's look at how
capable you actually are. Let's
look at the things you've
already done. Can we then begin
to rewire the brain to that
person then believes in
themselves a lot more? And the
answer that is yes, you can. And
I'm not saying that it's as easy
as that. It takes time and it
takes practice, and there's key
psychological skills that we can
teach to help them with

Lea Turner (10:16):
that. And it
definitely takes more. So in my
in my example, I was, I don't
think as a young child, I was
ever conditioned that you can't
do these things. It was more I
wasn't surrounded by examples of
people who had done it. But then
in my teenage years, it was very
much you can't because, because

(10:37):
I didn't want to go to college
and university, I was never
going to be able to do X, Y and
Z, or because I chose to have
Tartus, or because I chose to
not do this or not do that, I
would never, and it was
constantly you will never,
because, and I internalised
that, and then, and I wouldn't
necessarily put that blame on my
parents, not at all, but it was
the environment I was in without

(10:58):
those great role models. But
then in my 30s, it took all the
way to my 30s, I started being
surrounded by examples of people
who could and who did and who
believed that I could, but it
took a lot. It would only take a
few times of people saying you
can't, and it would need 1000s
of times of people saying you
can to undo that. Yeah,

James Elliott (11:18):
for sure. And I
think when we're young, our
brains are so vulnerable to
negative information, because
that's ultimately what we're
doing. We're trying to learn
about what is and isn't safe and
how do we survive? We learn that
survival through observation of
our caregivers. We nothing about
human behaviour makes any real
sense until you observe it
through the lens of evolutionary
biology. So we're looking to our
parents. We're looking to our
immediate surroundings as

(11:39):
children. That's what we
observe, and that's where
neuroplasticity happens the
most, in those developmental
stages. What ages is that like?
So, I mean, it's from the moment
you exit the womb, really, from
the moment you exit the womb all
the way, sort of through
childhood. There's, I mean, Dr
Alan soufar did this amazing
study. There's 180 families.
They all had to be on benefits,
and he observed them for 30

(12:00):
years, and even mothers who were
Molly coddling the children from
as young as six weeks, they then
noticed behavioural difficulties
in them in primary school. Yeah,
so that basically the results of
the experiment were that that
nothing is set in stone, so like
personality and likes and

(12:21):
dislikes of your caregivers.
Focus on primary caregiver,
which was mother in this
experiment, that does not
dictate anything for you
specifically, but what was one
of the biggest indicators of
fate would be the nature of the
relationship that you had with
your caregiver. So people who
had quite anxious mothers became
quite anxious people themselves.

(12:42):
People who had violent,
traumatic relationships with
their mothers, would often then
fall into poor mental health.
The fact that all of the people
had to be on benefits, so they
all had to grow up in relative
poverty actually showed it was a
really interesting result,
because that was added stress on
their childhood. And I think I'm
right in saying that a third of
them met the criteria for a

(13:03):
mental health diagnosis by the
time they were teenagers. Wow,
yeah, yeah. So it's really it's
really interesting how the
relationship, the nature of the
relationship with your parents,
dictates a huge amount of who
you are. But I'm not saying
that. I'm not saying that set in
stone, because there's always
exceptions to the world, not
only the outliers to it, but
there are also ways that you can
undo, that we can have events
and we can have things that
happen to us. Happen to us. One

(13:23):
of the fantastic things about
the military is it takes people
from that kind of background,
and it can, not always does, but
it can instil a great sense of
self efficacy and self reliance,
and then those people do tend to
leave the military and do become
fantastic business owners,
because they're very self
reliant. They're very sure of
themselves, and they do tend to
move. So just because you've had
a difficult relationship growing
up doesn't necessarily mean that

(13:45):
you're going to to be unable to
be a good business owner as an
adult. That's going

Lea Turner (13:48):
to take steps that
you have to advocate for to get
yourself

James Elliott (13:53):
Correct. Yeah,
yeah. And it's so interesting,
because when you know, I do work
a lot with businesses, and I
work a lot with business owners,
just like the differing
childhoods and the perception.
So like, some people are really
doing it for validation, some
people were really doing it to
prove a point. Some people are
doing it simply because they
grew up in an environment where

(14:13):
they were controlled, and now
they don't want to be
controlled. Some of the very
best business owner I met who
were mostly like brilliant and
capable of fantastic people
would make terrible employees
because they can't, yeah, right,
yeah, they

Lea Turner (14:28):
feel personally
victimised. But yeah,

James Elliott (14:34):
that's what we
tend to find. So it is really
fascinating. So working with a
lot of these people and and
often one of the things that
holds them back is that that's
kind of internalised belief that
I can't do it. But then they
look at someone who is doing it,
or who is doing what they want
to do, and you kind of draw this
parallel between, well, that
person and this person to this
person who doesn't believe

(14:54):
themselves capable and this
person who does believe himself
capable. And the great irony is
that the person who doesn't
believe. Themselves capable is
quite often, objectively, far
more capable than the person
who's doing it. The difference
is, is that they're just doing
it because their conditioning
was slightly different. It was
that study, I think, was like
something insane, like 80% of
the UK population at some point
will struggle with imposter

(15:15):
syndrome, and the joke is that
the other 20% were privately
educated. But that's like the
joke, right? But, but people who
grew up in environments whereby
and it can just be as little as
as parents were overly cautious
if you weren't allowed to
explore enough. As a child, you
had a slightly overbearing
mother who didn't encourage you
into exploration, and so
therefore, as an adult, you're

(15:35):
less likely to explore, to take
risks, to push boundaries. You
might have a fantastic business
idea and be really motivated and
excited to do it, but actually
taking those steps required to
build that because as a child,
you learned that exploration
wasn't safe. Yeah, you would
walk to the end of the garden.
Your mom would run over and grab
you by the hand and drag you
back. It's

Lea Turner (15:53):
funny, because
hearing that really validates
me, because with my son, I was
very much and it might sound a
bit a bit callous. But if my son
fell over instead of me freaking
out, I just even if it was a
couple of metres away from it
would be a case of you all
right, did you die? Did you die?
No, we're good and off. And you
get he'd go, oh, okay, and get
back up, brush himself off and

(16:14):
off. He toddles, where I watched
other moms in the playground
that would run over. Oh, puppet.
Are you okay? Oh, my goodness.
And they get all hysterical, and
the kid would start absolutely
crying his eyes out. I'm like,
Oh, I mean, your your hysteria
right now is feeding their
hysteria, whereas my calmness
and my matter of fact way of of
dealing with it, because that's

(16:35):
what I'm like with myself it.
That's how I've learned. My dad
would just sort of pick me up by
the arm, brush me off and go,
you're right, like, there
wasn't. There was none of that.
My mom was probably a little bit
more overprotective, but, but my
dad was very much like, yeah, he
was a military man as well,
which is, yeah, which is more
massive, great.

James Elliott (16:50):
But then,
obviously, on the flip side, we
then have to, like, acknowledge
the role that emotional
avoidance can play on children.
That if children learn that they
can't express their emotions in
a safe environment in front of
their parents, then, yeah, that
leads to emotional balance to
strike, yeah. I mean that. I
mean, that's led to, like, loads
of really fascinating theories
and studies. I think Freud, who
said unexpressed emotions will

(17:11):
manifest themselves as negative
behaviours, yeah. And so I
wonder, how many people who
struggle with something, you
know, it was awful, was
addiction, and that's of course,
to exclude the genetic and
epigenetic factors affecting
addiction, but how many people
were more susceptible to
addiction because they can't
express themselves
authentically, because they were
never shown that as a child?
Stuff like that is explored all
the time. Like there's lots of

(17:32):
fascinating studies like really
looking into that. And I'm not
saying that that is always the
case, because of course, every
Carl Jung said every individual
you meet is the exception to the
rule. So when you understand
somebody, it's harder to apply,
like, one really solid theory to
them, because you're like,
actually, there's far more
factors affecting that. Very
rarely is anybody a dichotomy of
anything ever but yeah, so what

(17:53):
is really interesting is then to
kind of break down and
understand what motivates and
why these entrepreneurs are
pursuing this. Because, why?
Why? Because, objectively, it's
it's greater risk. You could get
employed and you could make
money. So then why would you
then choose to take on board all
that risk yourself? Is that a
desire to climb up a social
hierarchy? Is that because your

(18:13):
creativeness you feel is being
suppressed? Is that because,
actually you just feel like you
could do things better? And so
it's really interesting to find
that out about people and help
them work through it and help
them understand why they're
holding themselves back. Yeah,
what is that fear? Where did you
learn that from? And that you
know that that doesn't
necessarily have to be
childhood. It almost always. It
doesn't always have to be that.

(18:34):
Do

Lea Turner (18:34):
you have any advice
for business owners to do that
sort of whether it's looking at
themselves as business owners,
or whether it's looking at
client behaviour or the
behaviour of people that maybe
come up against them with with
controversy and pushback. Do you
have any advice on how they can
sort of take a step back and
look at what's happening through
that kind of biological

(18:55):
evolutionary lens? Well, I think
lens, I can't speak

James Elliott (18:58):
I think I think
two really powerful things that
people can do is, first and
foremost, it is as have a really
good understanding of human
behaviour, like when we talk
about, say, for example,
controversy and pushback, right?
So you're talking about posting
on LinkedIn, and someone's got
something negative to

Lea Turner (19:12):
say. Well, this is
where our work started together.
For context, here is, I've
sought you out. I was aware of
you already. We already chatted,
but I sought you out for support
because I was struggling with
the attention that I was getting
online. And it wasn't
necessarily the negative
attention, although that was
part of it. It was just the fact
that it was attention, because
it was not a comfortable place

(19:33):
for me to be, and was never
something I intended. And I
sought you out to help me twist
my perspective and and process
what was happening in my life,
because I was going from my life
had gone from one extreme to
another in a very short space of
time, and my brain was
struggling to keep up with that.
And it was your advice that, and
I haven't really had to come

(19:55):
back for too much more support,
because it was so impactful what
you said. So, yeah.

James Elliott (20:00):
Absolutely so. So
I think the first is as
understanding why human beings
do the thing that they do when
Like say, for when a caregiver
stops loving a child, the child
doesn't stop loving the
caregiver, the child stops
loving themselves, we
internalise people's responses,
and actually, I find we can
carry that into adulthood. So
when someone says something
negative to someone does

(20:20):
something shitty to you, you
internalise. You think, Well,
that's about me, but it's not
about you at all. It's about
them and and what triggers you
is you. So when you're putting a
post up and it's like a really
success, and you're doing, I'm
doing great. I've just, I don't
know, signed my 1,000th client,
like this is going brilliantly,
and someone's got something
really negative to say about
that that's a reflection of
them, not you, but but in the

(20:40):
moment, that's really hard to do
that. It's really hard to
separate how it is that you feel
from actually what's going on.
So I think having a really good
understanding of human
behaviour, like, helps us with

Lea Turner (20:50):
and taking that
pause. Like, sometimes there's
the whole what is it? They say
that you should, shouldn't react
immediately, but take some time
and process it. And I, I used to
react, and it like in the
moment, I'd I'd argue back with
someone, or it'd be a sassy
comment. I every now and then, I
do it for comedy sake, but not

(21:11):
from a place of, very rarely,
from a place of like anger and
and wanting to get one up on
someone else. So I will hear
something or I'll see something,
and I will take a pause and say,
Is that about me or is that
about them? Yeah. And if I allow
myself that space to just ask
that question, it triggers like
the logical part of my brain and
says, Actually, no, it's not

(21:31):
about me. This anger that is
coming from this person is
definitely about them, because
actually, what they say isn't
true, because they don't know me
and and would my friends and the
people that know me say that
about me know they wouldn't, so
therefore it's not true, yeah?
So now I can twist it back and
go, I'm not going to that's not
going to go inside me. That's

(21:51):
just going to sort of ping off
the armour and go, I'm not
absorbing that one. Yeah.

James Elliott (21:55):
Well, in in
Victor Frankel's man search for
meaning, which is an incredible
story, he says, between stimuli
and reaction, there is space
within that space is choice.
Within that choice is freedom,
and it's that, yeah, I'm the
whole basis, solution based, Oh,
I

Lea Turner (22:14):
feel like a new
tattoo is coming on,

James Elliott (22:18):
yeah. So he's,
he's quoting Friedrich niece out
of that, but he puts it in his
book about Man's Search for
Meaning, like one of the most
incredible books ever written.
He he's a, I think, was a
researcher in Vienna in the
1930s a Jewish guy, and he got
captured, and he got sent to
Auschwitz, and he has his life
to work with him, and he hands
it to this garden and says, This

(22:38):
is my life's work. I'm one of
the head researchers at Vienna
in psychiatry, and he went on
keco and he threw it on a
bonfire, and he said he was a he
was a psychiatrist, and he
survived Auschwitz all the way
to the end. He made it. And then
he wrote this book. And he
wrote, and in this book, he he
writes logo therapy, and which
is a therapy of purpose. And I'm
going off on a tangent, but I

(23:00):
promise you, this is related to
what we talk about. He does a
lot about emotional control, and
so I do a lot about solution
based therapies, about
understanding your reaction but
choosing a response. And he does
this, this great thing, where he
basically what I do. I do a lot
on identity, like, Who are you
and what are you trying to
become? Because if you

Lea Turner (23:19):
I mean, that's
literally every business owner,
when we start, isn't it, right?
We're trying. We're struggling
with that. This is where I am,
and this is who I've been told
that I am for God knows how
long, in my corporate or in my
in my job, and now I have the
choice of who I am next, yeah,
and I don't know who that is
yet, yeah,

James Elliott (23:37):
if you, if you do
all of the behaviours of a
successful entrepreneur, right?
So if you everything Wait,

Lea Turner (23:42):
well, so we're not
talking like, get up at 5am have
a cow smoothie and dunk myself a
nice bath, right? Because I

James Elliott (23:47):
don't know, yeah,
that microdose yourself
hypothermia. But if you, if you
eat like a successful
entrepreneur and sleep like then
look after your health like a
successful entrepreneur, if you
work like a successful
entrepreneur, and you have,
like, the friendships around
you, and you have the
environment, and you have all of
those, are you far more likely
to become a successful
entrepreneur. So what he refers

(24:08):
to as this paradoxical intent,
and this is what I did with a
lot of the athletes. So I did
this with the Paralympic rowers,
and I specifically did this with
Lauren rocks, who became the
most successful Paralympic row
of all time. She's a wonderful
client. We talked about
paradoxical intent, like, who
are you? She right. Okay, so I'm
the Lauren rolls. Okay, cool.
What does that mean? Because you
want the gold medal at the
Paralympics, you gotta eat,

(24:28):
sleep, drink, socialise, train,
live, do everything like a gold
medal winning athlete, because
then it's only a matter of time
until they give you the gold
medal. If you're doing
everything right, that
paradoxical intent is going to
lead you to where you want

Lea Turner (24:42):
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(25:45):
first policy subject to
eligibility. Now back to the
conversation. So how important
is it then to have realistic
role models? Because this is
part of why we're having this
doing this podcast, right? It
became very apparent to me in
the community that we have that
the thing that we don't see is
the true life stories of
business, the realities we see

(26:07):
the social media filtered
version, but we don't see the
realities of what day to day as
a successful business owner. Is
when I say successful, that's
obviously a very broad sort of
description, but my personal
definition of successful is I
make enough money to live
comfortably without stressing
about my bills, like if I have a

(26:28):
little car bump and I need to
replace the bumper, or if you
know, I need to move house, I've
got, I've got enough security
there I can live comfortably,
and I'm doing a job I love, and
I've got enough to provide for
my child, And I'm and I'm waking
up content every day. And I
might not be deliriously happy
about my job every single day,

(26:49):
but more often than not, I'm
pretty damn happy that that's my
definition of success. It looks
different to everyone, but we
don't have, as business owners,
I don't think enough realistic
versions of success. We have a
lot of people we put on
pedestals that are multi
millionaires, they're tycoons,
they're they're really world

(27:09):
renowned, they're significantly
successful in the traditional
sense, in their field. But we
don't have real people to aspire
to, and they're more modest
versions of success. So how
important is that, when it comes
to having this sort of what was
it? You called it the
paradoxical, paradoxical intent?
Yeah, so if I want to mimic a

(27:30):
successful business owner, I
need to see a successful
business owner. That's my
definition of success. We don't
have that. Not how I describe
success anyway. So then I would say,

James Elliott (27:43):
to quote, The
Stranglers, No More Heroes,
right? Why don't we, instead of
trying to idolise one person,
why don't we idolise multiple
traits of different people?
Yeah, so like just say, for
example, he's probably Winston
Churchill, right? Winston
Churchill is a great example
people. I love that guy. He's
amazing. He's actually got some
really controversial opinions.

(28:04):
He did some things that now we
go, that's not ideal in the
slightest. He's actually a very
flawed hero. Okay, okay, cool,
right? And, I mean, I love a lot
of the things that he said. He
said some of the most amazing
things. And he led the country
undeniably. Why can't I admire
bits of him? Yeah, why can't I
look at different people and go,
Well, maybe I want to be able to
inspire people with words in the

(28:25):
same way that Winston Churchill
with but I want to show people
the same level of kindness that
and speak about kindness the way
that Martin Luther King spoke
about kindness. I want to then.
I want to be athletic like this
person has athletic. I want to
be strong like that person is
strong. I want to understand
emotions in the way that this
person does,

Lea Turner (28:43):
do we not then set
ourselves up for failure,
because the idea of being that,
like, if we're taking sort of
the very best part of a whole
variety of people, the realist
is a realistic expectation that
we can be. I mean, we're not
saying I necessarily want to be
as athletic as this and as

(29:03):
inspiring as this and as kind as
this. I love the principle, but
with that, if we had too many,
if we're taking the best bits
about all of these incredible
people, we wouldn't, maybe never
reach that goal, I think, as
kind as Martin Luther King, or
no,

James Elliott (29:20):
of course not,
but accepting your your flaws as
well. It's about being human. So
looking at that and going, I'm
inspired to try and be like
that. But one of the things that
we have is, is we leave very
little space for self
compassion, yeah, because for
many, many reasons, like, we've
lost a real sense of community,
and a community supposed to be
kind and soft, and we're no
longer driven by community.

(29:41):
We're driven by individualistic
goals. I'm working on

Lea Turner (29:44):
changing that. Yeah,
sorry, yeah,

James Elliott (29:47):
but it is true,
you know, and actually, the loss
of the community has been linked
to many mental health conditions
and issues. There are many, many
veterans, I'm sure, who would
agree with me when I say one of
the worst things the army did
was give everybody single man
rooms at the. Last thing about
the armies, everyone you were in
four man rooms. If one of you
had a problem, all of you had a
problem. Mainly the role of the
other people was to tease you
for it. But like, you all had a

(30:08):
problem, like everyone looked
after each other. And then
actually, that single man room
became individualistic, and it
lost, like the army lost a lot
of culture, which is a real
shame, yeah, and food became pay
as you dine. So then we lost
like you would go to dinner, you
go to scoff and you would sit
there for three hours because
you there was just food, and

(30:28):
everyone would talk, and you'd
create relationships and bonds.
And now people turn up, they eat
and they leave. And so actually,
like creating team and community
is so important to helping
people, because that's that
mutual support. I don't think
there's anything wrong with
seeing traits of other people. I
really like the way that he does
that. I'm really inspired by the
way that my that he does this or
he does that, and actually, I
want to then put that into my my

(30:50):
virtues. Maybe

Lea Turner (30:51):
it's like the
language is saying. I don't
want, I'm not trying to be as
kind as my Martin Luther King,
but I would like to be kinder,
you know, like him. I want to be
more like him, rather than as
kind as him, as this, as him. I

James Elliott (31:05):
think we do it
on, like, a much sort of lower
level, rather than, like,
idolising someone at that level,
but seeing some, seeing
something, uh, business wise,
and you go, wow, that person's
so business savvy, like they're
so switched on to that. I wish I
was like that. Well, how do they
do that? And how can I be more
like that? How can I take that?
Okay, cool. How can I add that
to my, my, my identity? How is

(31:25):
it identify with myself and if I
can add that trait? Okay, cool.
So now I've got a friend, Dean
Hammond, and I'm, I'm really
inspired by his work ethic. Like
he loves what he does, and he's
always coming out with this
energy of like, I really love
what he he inspired. Like he's
so inspired by the stuff that he
does. So I look at that, and I
think, wow, like, you know, I

(31:45):
need to, I need to, like, copy
some of that, because that's a
really inspiration. That's a
really admirable thing that he's
got there. And he works hard,
and he really does work hard, he
produces some fantastic results.
And I think, well, that's
something that I've taken, I've
added to my identity. That's
now, that's now how I perceive
myself. I've added that into my
identity to try and just become
this most fulfilled version of
myself. And I think that's

(32:07):
really interesting, and just
kind of jump, because I said
there were two points. So first
and foremostly, understanding
human behaviour and why people
do the way that they do is a
great way of managing that
negativity and great way of
managing those struggles. But
secondly, I'm big, and I know
that you really like this one.
I'm big on the thought court and
I love

Lea Turner (32:23):
this one. And every
time I've spoken about it to
anybody or put it on social
media, people go wild for it.
They're like, That is brilliant,
yeah. So please tell everybody
like from the source of where I
heard it, yeah? Tell everyone
about thought, cause this was
such a game changer for me. So

James Elliott (32:37):
one of the things
that is, one of the biggest
issues that we have with
negative thought patterns is
that they have this great
ability to derail us. We don't
really see them accurately.
They're often not based on
evidence. They're based on
irrational, emotional
experiences. So what I get
people to do is imagine a court
of law. So in a court of law,
for anybody who doesn't know,

(32:57):
there's a judge, there's a jury,
there's a prosecution and
there's a defence, and what you
have to do is you have to take
your statement. So say, take the
statement, I'm not capable,
fairly common statement, and you
have to put that on trial. Now
it's a court of law, so only
evidence is allowed, and at the
end, the jury will decide
whether or not that's true or
that false. So that's guilty or

(33:19):
not guilty, the judge makes sure
that only evidence is allowed
and the prosecution goes first,
and defence goes second. So your
job is to prosecute against
that. So if I was to say, Take
That statement, say I'm not
capable, I'm going to put that
in the witness stand, imagine
putting that in the witness
stand, and then I'm going to
prosecute against that. So I
have to prove why I am capable
to myself. I have to go for that
and go, Well, you've got five

(33:40):
world records. You spent 14
years in the Army. You've you've
developed this business, you
work on Harley Street, you're
involved in research projects,
you wrote a book, and somehow
you're helping to raise this 13
year old brat. And I love her
very much. She is, yeah, carry
out. I love her very much. But
is it okay to throw your 13 year
old daughter into the sea every

(34:01):
now and then that. So then I
take these statements of of
evidence of my capability to
then challenge that. So go, I'm
not capable, and go, Well, look
at all of the things you've
done. I'm collating evidence,
producing this evidence to
myself and saying, look at all
the things that you've managed.
Look at all the things that
you've done, and by the time the

(34:23):
prosecution has finished, the
defence doesn't even want to
pipe up anymore, because you
can't defend that because I
produce all this evidence, yeah,
and the offence is, well, I just
because I feel this certain way.
Well, the jury is obviously
going to say you are capable.
And once you've come to this
logical conclusion, once you've
put your thought from court, and
you've put it on trial, and
you've stuck it in the witness
the witness box, and you've

(34:44):
examined it, and you've realised
just how irrational it is that
allows you to put that to one
side and say, That's not me.
That's just irrationality. And

Lea Turner (34:50):
it's, it's part,
partly, what I found I was
pushing back on is like, my, I
feel like I was raised to never,
never be to. Proud of yourself.
Pride is a sin, right? It's
considered a sin. Don't be too
proud of yourself. Don't big
yourself up. Don't brag. Don't
be too confident. Men don't like
women that are too confident.
It's intimidating. All these

(35:11):
sort of little conversations
that as I've grown up, I've been
conditioned to believe that you
know, you know, be good at what
you do, but don't talk about how
good you are. You're not allowed
to say how good you are. You
just have to hope that other
people are going to realise how
good you are. But then I
realised I'm getting into I've
got to market my business. If I
don't talk about how good I am,
someone's going to hire the man

(35:33):
that does instead of me, and I'm
not going and maybe I'm the best
person for the job, and it's my
job to let people know that. But
it feels so weird and against
everything I've been taught as a
woman and as a as a British
person particularly, we have to
be modest. We have to be humble.
Gotta have that stiff upper lip.
Don't, don't be too pleased with

(35:53):
yourself, because it's a it's a
bad thing to be too pleased with
yourself. And it's like, how
unhealthy is that we're told
never to be too proud of
ourselves. Yeah,

James Elliott (36:01):
and, and it is
very unhealthy. And you talk
there, you know, specifically
about the conditioning of women
and conditioning of girls. You
know, we condition girls to sit
quietly and play in the corner
whilst boys run around and fight
each other and hit each other
with sticks. But then, based
upon that conditioning, which
one of those as adults do you
think is going to be far better
at marketing, far better at

(36:21):
shouting about what they're
doing and drawing attention to
themselves and getting the
necessary audience. Okay, we're
taking a beating every now being
okay, we're taking a beating
everyone and having that kind of
confidence, but whilst we're
conditioning girls to sit
quietly in the corner, yeah, to
then actually, are we setting
them up for failure? And is that
just an element of control that

(36:42):
then becomes an easier woman to
control. If you make her believe
that she isn't capable of doing
something as an as a child, then
as an adult, does that become
easier to coerce? And

Lea Turner (36:51):
it's so much harder
as well. Because when you
especially as women, but I know
it's not exclusively to women,
what what I've also found with a
lot of the business owners
around me is that it's not just
how we feel about ourselves and
going, Oh, I mustn't, I mustn't
do that, because I'm going to be
seen to be too proud. It feels
uncomfortable to be seen as not

(37:12):
being modest, even if it's false
modesty. Everything proves that
you should be proud and shout
about it. It's then the
reactions of other people who
who maybe don't get maybe they
don't own a business, maybe
they're an employee, and they
don't understand the concept of
marketing. They don't know what
it's like to market yourself, to
be reliable. It's your

(37:33):
responsibility to go out there
and attract the clients, or get
those clients. If you're
employed, unless you're in a
sales role, that's not that.
That's not your job. So you get
the employed friends around you
that are going feels a bit
weird, like you're always
talking about your business.
You're always picking yourself
up, like posting client
testimonials, like talking about
how great you are all the time.

(37:53):
It's, it's so weird, it's so
uncomfortable. You're, you know,
you're bragging, yeah, you're
not bragging. You're marketing.
But they don't get it. And so
they, they, you transfer that
onto you, and you end up making
yourself small and go, Well, I
don't want to post on I don't
want to post on Facebook or
LinkedIn and talk about my
business, because my friends are
making fun of me and they're
judging me on it, and they think
I'm full of myself. But

(38:13):
actually, it's like I'm just
trying to pay my bills. Yeah?
And

James Elliott (38:16):
you do yourself a
massive disservice, yeah?
Because what you're saying is
objectively true, like you're
doing great. And so when we talk
about understanding human
behaviour, is it that you're
talking about yourself too much,
and that's frustrating, and
that's annoying for them, or is
it that they don't have the same
things to talk about? Yeah, like
they, you know, they're an
employee. Do you're sitting

(38:36):
there trying to talk about your
business, and they don't
understand why that's important
to you? Is it that they find
that frustrating, or is it that
they're envious of that freedom
that they don't have?

Lea Turner (38:45):
Yeah, maybe, right?
Could be all sorts of things in
it, right? I

James Elliott (38:49):
mean, it's really
easy to be envious of the person
who's self employed when you're
clocking in at nine o'clock for
a job you don't really like to
work for people who you can't
stand, you don't get to pick the
direction of it, and so
therefore it's just easier to
project onto that person, yeah,
whilst actually, some people
might turn around and say
they're like, I'm really glad
your business going great.
Please send me whatever you
need, and I'll share it like
you're doing great. Let me know

(39:10):
if they can get anything from
you. And you're like, Wow,
that's a really supportive
person. And it might they might
be employed, or they might be
self employed, but it's that
emotional intelligence to think,
Well, yeah, that person's doing
great, that kind of professional
jealousy is really, really
common, and it's just actually
realising that if you know a
rising tide lifts all ships,
yeah, that's one of my favourite

(39:30):
phrases. Yeah, right. That's
supportive. And I understand
that lots of people really
struggle with that concept,
because, again, we're driven by
very individualistic nature. But
actually, if you can change that
culture and say, well, actually,
no, we're a community, like, if
one person gets really far in
this element and they have the
opportunity to open the door for
someone else, and then someone
else and then someone else, you
know, that's one of the worst

(39:51):
things about people are getting
positions of power when they
then shut the door behind them.
You know, people have, like,
elevated and help them and
support them, get into that
position of power and. They get
there and they say, okay, cool,
thanks. And then they close the
door, and that's, that's a
crying shame. So I think that
actually developing that,
cultivating that idea of
community. I mean, studies have
proven it really massively
increases her mental resilience

(40:12):
and emotional well being. We

Lea Turner (40:14):
notice it. I notice
it because, you know, the
community, we've got hundreds
and hundreds of members in there
now, and I see the interpersonal
relationships developing, and I
see people literally grow in
confidence and passion and
capabilities because they have
people around them that they
feel they can ask questions of
without being judged, without

(40:35):
being made to feel stupid. They
can share their wins and their
celebrations or the things that
they're struggling with again,
without someone going, Oh, whoa,
who's a big shop now, which is
not necessarily what your, your
non business owner friends would
say, but sometimes it feels
like, well, they might say that,
or I think that it's possible.
So I just, I just don't
celebrate my wins in front of

(40:56):
them, because they're just going
to think I'm bragging. Yeah,
it's such a strangely
uncomfortable place to be. So if
we were talking to our audience
is mostly business owners, I
would say, in their first five
years of business, if not still
side hustling or employed and
thinking about starting a
business, what is? What are some
key practical tips that people

(41:17):
can take away from today that
will help to improve their own
mental resilience. So

James Elliott (41:23):
I think
particularly from the business
perspective, if we were to kind
of drag elements of the previous
conversation into this, ask
yourself, what would a man
called ruper do now? Yeah, okay,
upper class, well, educated,
arrogant, not all Rupert, not
all Rupert. The reason why I use
the name Rupert is because
that's a nickname for an officer
in the in the army. Okay, so,

(41:44):
but someone upper class who has
that confidence, you might be
far better qualified, far better
capable than them, but they have
the confidence, that blind
confidence, just go for it. So
what would a man called Rupert
do now, as he's assessing
himself, if I genuinely believe
myself capable, what would I do?
I think the application of the
thought core is a massive winter
because overcoming that, I think

(42:05):
understanding the way that your
body feels like, like, really,
really improve on the language
that you use to describe what's
going on. And there's lots of
fantastic things you can you can
do for that, understanding
something as simple as a
feelings wheel, which is at the
centre of it, we have got the
core, angry, sad, happy, and
then, you know, and then from

(42:26):
there, then, like, like a colour
wheel does? It expands on the
emotional states, and the
variety of emotional states,
like, learn to improve what it
is you're feeling. Learn to
label your emotions correctly,
understand what's going on in
your body and why it feels the
way that it feels, and what's
going on and why and how you can
understand those feelings. The
more you can understand your
emotional state, the easier it
becomes to manage. Like, are you

(42:48):
feeling anger or are you feeling
shame? And then that shame is
becoming anger as a defence
mechanism, and wherever there is
pride, there is shame. So
actually, what has been driven
by your ego that's creating this
angle response here, and
actually, how can we better
manage that? I think getting
therapy is it is a huge win. I
can recommend. Thank you. Thank

(43:09):
you. Therapy is a huge win
because we do. I work with lots
of business owners, and there's
lots around development of
resilience in therapy, which is
the understanding itself and
managing our behaviours. There's
only so long you could ignore
your traumatic experiences for

Lea Turner (43:25):
do you think a good
way into I mean, this
conversation has obviously been
amazing. I could, I could easily
sit here and do this for hours,
but we do want to try and keep
it under, under an hour for, for
our inattentive listeners,
you've, you've written a book,
yeah? And I hear there's,
there's going to be more in the
pipeline, yeah, now there's one

(43:47):
book. Yeah, there is one book
out at the moment. Um, that's
that goes over all the things
that we've been talking about
yesterday, right? Yeah. So
that's

James Elliott (43:53):
all about, you
know, developing more positive
relationships, understanding,
setting boundaries. That's all
about, like, your identity and
your purpose. You know, how was
the world better for you being
in it? And how can you identify
that purpose? It talks about
emotional intelligence. I break
down what emotional intelligence
is and how we can utilise that.
We talk about like the
foundations of this and what it
means. We talk about physical
health, and why physical health
is so important to your

(44:14):
emotional resilience. You know,
the sort of psycho neuroimmune,
the chronology that works, both
from the way that you think down
to how your body responds to
also how you can make your body
feel, to challenge the way that
you think.

Lea Turner (44:25):
So. All of these
things are tools that business
owners, when we're talking high
performance, whether that's
athletes or anyone else, we have
to be high performing in our
business. Yeah, and that doesn't
mean 5am starts and kale
smoothies and ice baths, but it
it does mean improving the way
we treat ourselves and the

(44:45):
habits that we have to try to I
know that I need certain things
on a day to day basis so that my
brain just wakes up. Yeah, so
busy all the time, and my brain
is so active all of the time
that if I don't do things to
optimise. How my brain wakes up
in the morning. I'll be sat
there till 11am in the morning
getting absolutely nothing done.

(45:05):
Yeah. So think yourself
resilient. Is your book. It is.
You can get it on Amazon. Get it
on Amazon, where you can get it
where we're not paying Jeff
Bezos,

James Elliott (45:15):
water stones.
Water stones, yeah. So you can,
if you, if you're being really
adventurous, go to the
Waterstones of culture. So
you'll find some signed copies.
Will you assume there's any
left? Well, I go in and I go in
and I sign them when I put them
back on the shower. Okay, so
everyone's going on a road trip
to culture. Go on a road trip to
Colchester. You get a signed
copy of my book. Yeah, there is

(45:36):
plans for another one, but bear
with me. So it'll take me
another couple of years. I mean,
you're a fairly busy guy. I'm a
fairly busy guy, but yeah, so
and if you wanted to hear any
more from me, social media.
James Elliott, you can find me
easy enough LinkedIn, obviously
his LinkedIn

Lea Turner (45:54):
is actually very
good. Thank you, although you've
only been using LinkedIn since I
gave you a kick.

James Elliott (46:01):
Yeah. Yeah.
LinkedIn such an interesting
platform, because everyone in
there wants to project the idea
that they're the best at what
they do. So you tend to fall
into comments of either really
supportive or really, like
undercutting. And I find that so
fascinating. You get, like,
these brilliant comments and
like really interesting people,

(46:22):
and it interesting people. And
it gets you, it's an amazing
networking opportunity. Met some
self included, met some
incredible people through it.
But then you just get these
really bizarre comments from
people who are like, no, and
then they're gone, and you're
like, I've just written about
the neurobiology of trauma mate,
like, care to like, I did a
presentation in the well as part
of a presentation in the Royal

(46:43):
Society of medicine. And someone
just commented on looking like a
dressing like a bouncer. Help.
Did it amazing? Wow. Yeah,
sorry, I

Unknown (46:52):
didn't see your value
from contribution. Dave, yeah,
Dave, I

James Elliott (46:56):
didn't see you in
there or whatever. So yeah,
that, but yeah. So I found, I
found that to be a really
interesting platform. And when
we were talking and you were on
LinkedIn and sort of having a
look for it, I find it, like
very fascinating. Yeah, what's
going on there?

Lea Turner (47:08):
I think it's your
experience is very much dictated
by your own activities on there.
And if you're not actively
engaging, you are going to see a
whole different news feed than
if you are seeking out content
that you genuinely enjoy it. It
makes a huge difference, but
there's always going to be the
people who like to be
controversial just for the sake
of it. And in the past, it would

(47:30):
upset me, yeah, and it would
trigger parts of me, but I'm so
at peace and confident in the
fact that doing what I do on
LinkedIn now brings me the
lifestyle that I've always
dreamed of for my son, that
there's, there's really nothing
that anyone can say or do that's
going to dent that now, because
my purpose is bigger, I'm not
doing it to be liked. I'm doing

(47:52):
it to provide to my for my
child, and being liked is a is a
happy byproduct, but not
compulsory. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's an interesting one, and
it's definitely a point that you
have been significant in helping
me to get to so massive. Thank
you my privilege. Thank you my
my

James Elliott (48:07):
privilege is
always this privilege to work
with people you know, and people
tell you stuff that's gone on in
their lives and their traumas
and their difficulties and
things

Lea Turner (48:15):
that have traumas or
difficulties you know. No but as
a

James Elliott (48:18):
therapist, it's a
privilege to be told, and I have
to remind myself of that, like
it's a people wanting to talk to
you about stuff that's happening
in their lives so you can help
empower them. It's a massive
privilege, and

Lea Turner (48:29):
it's reassuring to
hear that somebody who
understands so well human
psychology, human behaviour, and
is an expert, you will still
have that instinctive, Oh, this
feels uncomfortable being given
a compliment. You just can't
it's a matter how much of an
expert. Yeah, that's that's
normal. Yeah, we just have to
adjust to that.

James Elliott (48:45):
I think it's
important to still get that.
Yeah, it keeps you humble. Keeps
you humble. Thank you so much
for coming on today. Thank you.
I think people are going to
really love this one. Thank you.
Thank you. Good Yeah. Oh, I
really enjoyed it. So thank you.
Supporting

Lea Turner (48:55):
small business
owners is my biggest passion,
and that's what my membership
community the HoLT is all about.
Inside the HoLT are more than
150 master classes from experts
in every business skill you
could ever want, and we add more
every single month. There are
also sales clinics, tech
clinics, well being, support and
advice and discounts on a huge

(49:16):
range of software and services.
But it's so much more than just
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Everyone inside the HoLT shares
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They're super active. The chat
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cheerleaders in your pocket
willing you to succeed and

(49:37):
helping you wherever they can.
And we offer all of this and
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HoLT is a kind, inclusive and
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lot more fun. We would love for

(49:59):
you to join us. You can check
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(50:21):
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