March 3, 2025 • 48 mins
Start your own business they say….
Work your own hours, be your own boss, live your best life.
But the reality is not that easy. You have to graft, and you have to graft hard.
Chris James, Founder of Content to Clients is my guest in this episode, and he tells it like it is. You have to work hard, you have to be resilient and sometimes you just have to trust that you can do it.
Chris left his job in a call centre, supported by his loved ones, to build his own business, something he says is central to his success.
Since then, he has helped countless business owners hit big money months, but they all had to put in some serious effort to get there. He shares his journey of business growth over the past three years, and how he has ended up working with an all-female team.
Chris tells it like it is, so get ready to find out what it’s really like to run your own business and get prepared to take some risks.
“This shit isn’t for everyone”– Chris
You’ll hear about:
00:00 – Building a business is not for everyone
01:05 - An introduction to Chris and his work
02:50 - Chris's expectations of working for himself
04:58 - Why Chris outsourced quickly
11:06 - How support at home changed Chris's life
14:53 - How has Content to Clients evolved?
19:21 - Chris on his history with LinkedIn
24:42 - The growth of Chris's business
30:46 - Chris on having an all-female team
37:34 - Chris's advice to his younger self
Connect with Chris:
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisjamesonline/
Chris James’ Website - https://www.chris-james.co/
Content to Clients - https://www.chris-james.co/c2clp
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/chrisjamesonline/?hl=en
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@ChrisJamesOnline
Connect with me:
My website - https://leaturner.co.uk/
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/lea-turner/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/leaturnerholt
Find out about The HoLT:
The HoLT - https://www.the-holt.com/
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/theholt
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/theholtcommunity/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theholtcommunity
Join The Holt waiting list - https://www.the-holt.com/waitlist
This podcast is sponsored by QDos. Use the code LEA10 at the checkout to get your discount when signing up - https://my.qdoscontractor.com/code/10255/115219
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chris James (00:00):
This shit isn't for
(00:00):
everyone. Yeah, this is very,
very hard. You have got to have
a certain level of resilience
and grit. But if you think
you've had that, you've got
that, or been exposed to
situations like this before,
then absolutely do it, but make
sure you've got the financial
runway. That's the disclaimer.
You need to be able to cover
your ass for a bit, because you
will have rocky months for the
(00:21):
first 612, 36
Lea Turner (00:36):
Chris James, welcome
to the Holt Survival Guide for
small businesses. I feel weird
because I'm going like all
serious presenter mode with you,
and we're very rarely serious
together. And probably should
warn people listening that if
you're in the car with your
kids, he's got a potty mouth, so
let's, let's just trigger
warning there or not, your son
me swear warning, yeah, my son's
listened to you on a podcast
(00:57):
before that I was listening to
in the car, all right. How was
it? I had to turn it off because
he complained about the swearing
shit. I mean. So before we
really get into things, tell us
a little bit about what you do.
Chris James (01:10):
I help people make
money by putting together an
offer and packaging their
expertise and market themselves
using organic content and then
generate leads, win clients and
deliver successful results to
those clients. And it works. It
works. Yeah, we've got a wall of
fame, which I put together the
other day, which is just, it's
(01:30):
hard to finish scrolling,
Lea Turner (01:32):
yeah. So I've, I
have a lot of your clients in my
community, or people who are
keen to become your clients,
because they've seen the master
classes that you've done within
the Holt, and that's really why
I invited you on here. I know
we're friends outside of this,
but the fact that your master
classes within the Holt was so
well received, and people said
that it really worked and gave
(01:53):
them a new perspective on
things. But let's dispel a myth,
because it's not easy working
with you. The process that you
the processes that you put in
place for people. It's craft,
right, that they really have to
commit to the process to get the
results that your successful
clients have. And I think
there's a lot out there in terms
of business advice and
(02:15):
oversimplification of processes,
and you can do these three step
processes, and this is going to
be the results people like to
sell a dream, but the reality
is, it's hard work, and you are
one of the hardest working
business owners I've known over
the um, how long have we known
each other? Three or four years?
Now, it's gotta be, can't be
(02:36):
four. And how long's content to
clients been going third of
Chris James (02:39):
John, 22 so three
years, three and a half,
probably, probably, yeah, about
three years,
Lea Turner (02:44):
and you've had
incredible growth, but you have
worked your absolute ass off to
get there. What would you say to
like, did you expect it when you
left your business, the jobs
that you had? Did you expect it
to be as hard as it has
Chris James (03:00):
been? I don't think
it's I've just made it harder by
trying to do too much at once,
right? So is it hard work? Yes,
anyone that sells any sort of
business program from the ground
up, like, end to end that tells
you it's going to be easy is
lying like the program's
obviously hard, not because the
program's hard because business
(03:21):
is fucking hard. Like, there's a
there's a difference there. Did
I expect to work as hard I love
it. Like I'm already in my head.
Like, What time am I going to be
finished doing this podcast so I
can go back and finish those
YouTube scripts, so I'm on time
for tomorrow, because I just
fucking love it. Inconvenience
being it. I love it. So it's not
(03:42):
been it's not been easy, but I
think it's been hard, like it's
not hard, it's just work.
Lea Turner (03:48):
And that's a big
difference, isn't it? Because
people say that, you know the
cliche, you never work at any
life if you love your job,
right? I mean, there are, we all
have days where we don't love
all of it. There's all aspects
of business that we're not so
pleased about, and at the
beginning, like, what were the
bits at the beginning that you
really didn't like doing?
(04:08):
Because there's got to be
something like, I'm terrible at
accounts, so the first thing I
did was hire an accountant.
Yeah,
Chris James (04:15):
I never did that. I
outsource as fast as I possibly
can so I can continue doing what
I really like doing, which is
building stuff, delivering to
clients, and talking, basically,
talking about business and
marketing. That's what I like
doing. So I try and accounts is
sorted day to day, check ins
with clients. That's outsourced,
(04:36):
writing my emails, most of it
outsourced, or certainly
repurposed and then outsourced.
So there are a little thing, I
mean, even the technical stuff,
like hopping into Zapier and
setting up automations, I enjoy
doing that. I spent a whole day
yesterday building one lesson,
one master class on engagement,
and I was just buzzing off it. I
just loved it. I
Lea Turner (04:58):
I took too long to
start. Outsourcing out of fear.
I was nervous. It is scary, but
you did it so quickly. You and
You seem like you've done it
quite confidently. Was that true
or or were you overcoming a fear
of doing it? You were just like,
well, I can't I'm not going to
grow as quickly as I want to if
I don't do this. So I'm going to
suck, suck up the fear.
Chris James (05:18):
Well, it's
something we speak about to our
clients as early on as I can, as
soon as revenue permits, you
will have identified the tasks
that either need doing, but not
by you or you don't like doing.
And you know, if you look at the
CEO of a massive company,
they're just going to be they're
not going to be fanning around,
scheduling the social media
posts or doing the accounts or
(05:39):
invoicing or something like
that. And you need to kind of
approach it with that. Approach
it with that mindset. So I
identified quite quickly, like
these boxes need ticking, but
they don't need ticking by me.
So therefore I'm going to get
someone who can do some of what
I would call the grunt work. And
it was just that. It was a
Filipino VA who I outsourced to
first, and she was great. She
(06:02):
was more expensive than most
Filipino vas. And I think that
outsourcing and paying money to
someone on the other side of the
world who doesn't have the same
first language as you is a
little bit scary, but what I
always advise clients do is just
like focus on the lowest level
responsibility tasks first. So
let's say they were going to
(06:23):
manage your LinkedIn, you would
just give them a list of people
and, say, connect with a few, 20
people a day off this list. You
don't just chuck them straight
into the DMS and comments and
have them pretending to be you
like work your way up to that.
Same with with anything. If you
want them to design graphics,
you don't give them a whole like
program to design. You go do a
few single images first or
(06:44):
whatever, and just build it up.
Yeah? And that is, I think, how
I've worked, because I am a,
well, yeah, people will describe
me still as a control freak,
micromanage maybe I'm a lot
better than I was, yeah. So
yeah, there was definitely some
fear, but I overcame it by just,
did
Lea Turner (07:00):
you find that that
made more work for you in the
beginning, though, because,
because it does, doesn't it? You
you where
Chris James (07:06):
you've got, like,
the investment and effort before
you see the return the same when
Lea Turner (07:10):
you hire a member of
staff, right? If you hire an
employee, there's a period
you're going to have to train
them, yeah, and that can feel
counterintuitive, and then you
go through that demotivation,
because I've hired someone so
they should be making my life
easier, but actually they're
making my life harder in the
beginning, and sometimes it's
hard to push through, and you
just want to give up like
they're not they're not getting
it, probably because we're not
(07:31):
explaining it properly, yeah,
and then I'm having to actually
feed them work because they're
not familiar enough to work off
their own initiative. Yet, I
found, though, because I've
hired freelancers who are
really, really good at what they
do, and I know that they're
better than I am. That's helped
me be more confident in so Alex
(07:51):
Thompson, who does my email
marketing, he's so much better
at it than I am, so he's done a
launch for me, then I've worked
in collaboration with him to do
further launches. And then I
just handed it over, and I said,
I don't want, I want to be hands
off now. And basically, we will
have a meeting once a month for
an hour to plan what's happening
next. And then I don't touch it.
(08:13):
And like, the first time I see
the emails is when they drop
into my inbox, same
Chris James (08:17):
with me and Kate's
gone, and I love it. I don't
even, I don't even approve
Lea Turner (08:21):
them. No, I don't,
because it's not, although I do
regret that if occasional error
goes out,
Chris James (08:26):
yeah, okay, he's
messed up a couple of times, but
she knows what she's done. Yeah,
right? About the Freelancer
mentality, right? You pay more
for it, yeah, but if you get the
right fit, which usually you do,
because you can choose and be a
lot more selective based on a
portfolio or an existing
business or whatever, you're
going to reap the reward?
Lea Turner (08:45):
Yeah? 100% Yeah, my
first hire, or my first
outsourcing was to Luke Manton,
my VA and still with you, right?
Yeah, he's still with me. We had
a break for a while where I had
a employed PA, and that wouldn't
really work out she was she was
fine, you know, I wouldn't put
anything on her, but I would,
because she was remote. I'd
(09:06):
forget she exists, and be like,
Oh no, I need to, like, actually
give her stuff to
Chris James (09:10):
do. I'm a bit like
that. We might have VA she like,
bollocks me, yeah.
Lea Turner (09:14):
Whereas enough work,
Luke has a whole list of things
that he can do if I'm not
sending him stuff. But, I mean,
I'm so much busier than I was at
the beginning. That he's and he
does all like my my travel
arrangements and my personal
life, like he organizes my
personal life. Reminds me that
there's birthdays coming up and
I need to get gifts, and if I
(09:36):
need to book a hotel or a train
Chris James (09:39):
together, saying
Ivy has got football and she's
going to be late for her next
appointment if you don't get
there on time on Thursday, the
31st or whatever, I'm just like,
Lea Turner (09:49):
looks like my
business man, so good. Even
like, my bin schedule is put
into my Google calendar so I
know which bin to go out each
week, because I won't forget.
And even though
Chris James (09:59):
not you. Do as a
business owner, right? You need
to retain certain information.
You do not need to retain that.
You know
Lea Turner (10:04):
what? I think that's
partly why I have the time and
the mental capacity to keep
building and innovating with
what I'm doing. Is because there
are and don't get me wrong, my
mental load is still enormous.
I'm a solo parent, right? But
because the unnecessary stuff is
minimized and it's just all in
Google, and Google sends it to
(10:26):
my Alexa, who shouts at me
across the house, whatever room
I'm in, I get a reminder from
her, and that helps me to have
the space in my brain to be able
to create and innovate and
market and have ideas that I
need to have. So one of the
things that I really was
interested in talking to you
(10:46):
about is because you've grown
really fast, and you've traveled
a lot, and you've spent a lot of
money on amazing coaching
packages that you say you're
very honest with your feedback
on the investments, whether they
were worth it, what you've
learned, you know, what you've
got out of them, but all of
(11:06):
that's been made possible by the
fact you've got Amy at home,
your amazing wife. So you've got
Amy, you've got stepson, Edward,
and your daughter Ivy, who's
nine, she's same as Dex, isn't
she? And there's a lot of
people, and I am guilty of this.
I have a at times watching how
much content you're putting out
and how much success you're
(11:27):
having. I've gone, God, Chris
has done this fast. I could
have, I could have done this as
fast as Chris. And I'm not
really guilty of comparison ISIS
very often. But I did look at
you, and I was like, Damn, he's
doing really, really well. He's
so dedicated, he's so
structured. And then I had to
check myself, because I'm a solo
parent. The two Exactly,
exactly, right? I'm a solo
(11:48):
parent. I've done this all while
juggling looking after a home
and a child and pets and
everything full time, and you've
got Amy at home who is probably,
without doubt, your biggest
supporter, right?
Chris James (11:59):
She's a reason for
all of this. If it wasn't for
her, I'd probably still be in
that call center. She's, she's
pushed me or told me to do
things that I was fearful of
doing. Quitting the job. Was
one. Quitting my job before
that, to go to the marketing
agency, was the other one.
She's, like, you just need to do
it. Like, what are you what you
worried about? Like, you always
end up working it out. And then
I have to check myself and go,
(12:20):
Yeah, every time I've wanted to
do something big, I thought I
would fail when I've actually
done it, I've never failed. So
just take it head on.
Lea Turner (12:27):
So she's almost like
the anti imposter on your
shoulder. She's the
Chris James (12:31):
she's my spine.
Yeah, everything. And
Lea Turner (12:38):
that's, I think
that's an important message for
people now, not everyone with a
partner has a supportive
partner, right? That,
unfortunately, that's not the
truth for a lot of people.
Probably why I choose to stay on
my own is because I think if I
don't get someone like Amy, I
don't want anyone like it's not
Amy. Don't worry. I'm not going
to steal your wife. Well, that
(13:01):
why you keep us apart
occasionally? I've never met
Chris James (13:06):
just in case. Oh,
there
Lea Turner (13:10):
you go. I'm in with
a chance. But I think people
underestimate the importance of
having a partner that makes it
possible, or that, at the very
least encourages and supports
you and cheer leads you. Where
do you think you'd be now if she
wasn't such a supportive person?
Chris James (13:30):
There's two sides
to support, isn't there? There's
like, the mental and the
emotional, and then there's the
operational, physical, day to
day. We're talking about before,
where Amy takes the lion's share
of everything in terms, I mean,
she's still got what I would
call between a full and a part
time job, yeah, so it's not
quite full time. There's
flexibility. She works from
(13:50):
home. So where would I be
without that? Well, if I still
had Ivy, I imagine I'd have a
week of like, chaos with Ivy
running around, which would
like, resemble your life, and
then I'd be a weak, solo parent,
and if Amy, if I was with Amy,
so but going back, I would still
be in that call center. I'd
still be in there, like unfilled
(14:12):
for like potential, making 200
calls a day, hating my boss,
hating my life, getting pissed
every weekend, Living for the
Weekend, hating life on Monday.
And that was a constant cycle
for like, five years there that
maybe a bit bit less.
Lea Turner (14:28):
And I met you when
you were working at an agency,
and you were sort of on, that
was the good you just started
out like doing side stuff,
hadn't you at that point? Yeah,
I think
Chris James (14:37):
we had a piss
Instagram Live or something. So
it
Unknown (14:42):
doesn't
Chris James (14:44):
sound like us.
Lea Turner (14:47):
So in terms of what
you've done over the last three
years with content to clients,
what did content to clients look
like when you started like where
did the idea come from? Because
you were an expert in sales.
Right, sales and marketing was
your thing. Sales
Chris James (15:02):
first. Then I
learned how important marketing
was, which I believe is much
more important than sales in the
grand scheme of things. And
then, yeah, I was working at
this marketing agency. I
remember I was thinking about it
on the train here. What was the
point like? What was the turning
point when things did start to
actually change. It was very
(15:23):
early on in COVID, where I
hadn't been furloughed, but and
I was still had to ring people
and do outreach for the agency
at home. When I was like, God, I
need something to do. So I
started, like looking I started
reading books, and one of them
was Daniel Priestley's. There
was a Ryan Holiday book in
there, much more mindset
focused. And I was like, fuck
this. I need to do something
(15:44):
different. Now. I don't know
what it is. I'm just gonna try.
And I shaved my hair, completely
shaved my hair off, which I've
been known to do because I was
drinking like a bottle of rum at
night at the start of lockdown,
like pointing a load of weight,
eating takeaways. But I was
like, something's got to change.
And then Amy came out. And I had
Edwards into the gardens. It was
really sunny at the start of
(16:06):
lockdown on there. And I had
Edwards gaming chair, which is
like a nice shaped beanbag, and
we've got a picture of it, which
I need to find. I am a top off,
shades on, and I had this
skinhead. And I was reading a
book, and Amy came out, like,
what are you doing? Reading?
She's like, you don't read, you
can't read, motherfucker. And I
(16:27):
was like, I'm reading. And she's
like, why? And I remember
specifically, and she can
remember as well. Like, look
tired. And I was like, I'm
reinventing myself as a joke.
But I was also deadly serious,
and she just laughed, I think,
and walked off or whatever. And
that was the point I can
remember like it would have been
a Ryan Holiday or a Daniel
Priestley book, key person of
(16:48):
influence. And it all started
from there, and it just started
fueling my brain with Audible
and self development, what I
would call fluff and bullshit
now, but you do actually need an
element of it in in your life,
and much more action than
theory. And that's what it sort
of looked like. And then I put
out some Instagram content. It
was all about B to B sales. It
(17:08):
was quite bland, quite boring.
And someone reached out to me
and said, Can I pay you to help
me with this? I was like, what?
I was like, Yeah, 80 quid. Just
got 80 quid off. This guy had a
call with him and helped him
look at his sales process.
That's
Lea Turner (17:23):
all you need, right?
That that first person to take a
chance on you, that
Chris James (17:27):
feeling, is built.
I've sold stuff for multiple,
five figures now, for the
business, that was nothing
compares to that first first
couple. That one was just that I
Lea Turner (17:38):
remember the same
thing. Because when I first
decided I was going to start
transcribing like all the way
back in 2011 and I I'd been in
Thailand, and I decided I was
going to be a I was going to do
typing to earn some extra money
to pay for more travel. So skin
and I put an ad on Gumtree, and
this property developer that
used to do these scammy
(17:58):
guaranteed rent schemes messaged
me and wanted me to type up some
of his like calls that he'd
done, and then they were going
to turn them into training
manuals. And I typed loads of
them, and it was utter bullshit,
like it was
Chris James (18:11):
lies or just it was
just falling
Lea Turner (18:15):
idiots, basically,
is selling hope and fake. It
sounded good, but you could I
was smart enough to see through
the lines. I was like, you're
taking desperate people and
giving them what seems too good
to be true, and they're eating
it up. And as it as it turned
out, he got arrested and
imprisoned for stabbing his
cousin, who was having an affair
(18:35):
with his wife. And I only found
that out because I he was
overdue paying me, and I Googled
his name to try and find out
details to contact him. It's
like, Yeah, I know, right. So
how's his life now? Well, I
assume he's still in prison. I
don't know. I've never Googled
it. Maybe I should
Chris James (18:56):
transcribe his
prison but
Lea Turner (18:59):
it was that one
action proof someone's going to
take a chance on me. And, you
know, it didn't. It didn't go
well, and I never got my invoice
paid, but I did end up getting
more clients off the back of
that, and it gave me the
confidence to try to go, there's
something in this. Someone's
going to take a chance for me.
Let's keep going and see where
this goes. And that, obviously,
(19:19):
then led me to LinkedIn, and
we've crossed paths. You were
very much on Instagram when we
first met, and I kind of bullied
you into starting using
LinkedIn. I remember having the
conversations, and you were
like, oh, LinkedIn is dry.
LinkedIn is boring. It's not the
place for me. I was like, you've
got so much content, and you're
so good at content
Chris James (19:38):
on Instagram
LinkedIn. So I've been on
LinkedIn for years just using
the sales nav side of things.
And I would, I would never
really post content, even when I
went into that agency role,
right? And I was like, we need
to use LinkedIn. But other
people in previous jobs have
been saying things like, Oh, you
need to, you know, if your head
shot should have the company
(19:59):
logo in the back. Ground, and
I'm just, I remember going, I'm
not doing that. But then I got
to the agency, and I didn't have
to watch what I said on
LinkedIn, like it was complete
free reign at this agency, and
my best mate was the director.
He's just like I am, if not more
brutal to be fair. And I could
go on and say what I want, but I
still just felt this. I don't
know if it was a colleague
block, a potential client,
(20:19):
existing client block something
mentally, just stopping me from
doing it. And then, yeah, after
we spoke, and then I'd seen a
few other people on LinkedIn who
said, do it. I started up a
page. This is why I got blocked
from LinkedIn six months ago,
two personal pages. No, I set up
a page as Dave Smith, or
(20:41):
something like that. So I could
go on and block everyone who I
was working with, like
colleagues at my role at the
time. So I went on as Dave, Big
Dave, I think I had an emoji for
my picture, blocked them all,
and then I changed it over,
which I think was April 22 it's
only two months before I left my
job, and then I changed to Chris
(21:03):
James and started building out
the profile properly and stuff,
I went and blocked like clients
from the agency. I blocked
everyone who worked there,
potential clients. They're still
all blocked now, to be fair, so
I've just never gone back and
unblocked them. So but that was
obviously fear of losing job and
fear of judgment as well. It
wasn't just like, let's put that
was definitely scared what they
(21:23):
would think, um, because I had
some good mates there, and then,
yeah, like, Insta, slowly is
phased out. I'll bring it back
at some point. LinkedIn is by
far, LinkedIn, YouTube, email,
but LinkedIn at the top. It's
not my favorite, but it's the
one. There's definitely elements
Lea Turner (21:39):
of LinkedIn that can
be really hard. You have to kind
of detach yourself, and I think,
and I had the same block when I
started using LinkedIn. I was
like, Oh, my God, these are all
people that I went to school
with and people that I used to
work with, they're going to
think I'm proper with. And I got
loads of messages from people
saying, oh, all I see is your
LinkedIn content. You're posting
all the time. I was thinking,
but hold on a minute. You've
only got 200 connections, yeah.
(22:01):
So if only one exactly. So if
only 1% which is about average,
one to 2% of people that have a
LinkedIn profile, are actually
creating content. It's really,
really low, over a billion users
and like so, if you're connected
to 200 people and only one 1%
are creating content, that's me
and one other person. So of
course, your news feed is full
of my content. I'm not posting
(22:22):
loads. It's once a day, but that
you're just seeing my entire
week's worth of content on one
scroll. Yeah, yeah. So of
course, it's annoying and fair
enough disconnect block me,
that's that's fine, but I think
you forget, you feel like
they're judging you for being
obsessed with it. And it's like,
well, I'm not obsessed, like,
I'm doing one post today. Yeah,
(22:42):
I
Chris James (22:43):
think people view
it as, like, an ego thing,
right? Like, oh, they're on
there talking about themselves.
They must have an ego. I
genuinely feel like I had much
more of an ego when I didn't
post compared to, yeah, when I
do now, a lot daily, yeah, I
find, like,
Lea Turner (22:56):
I learn a lot of
stuff from creating content as
well from the conversations you
have in the comments sections,
but it's that old thing, isn't
it? People saying, Oh, you just
after attention? Yes, that's
what marketing is. If you don't
want attention, like they call
it paying attention for a
reason, right? You're paying
attention. You have to spend it.
I need it to be able to sell my
business if I don't market
(23:17):
myself, which asking for
attention on the internet is
marketing myself. That's
literally the definition. If I
don't do that, I'm not paying my
mortgage. I can't pay to feed my
darling Bronson and my son's
ridiculous Satsuma habit that he
eats about eight of those
Satsuma at the moment, I
Chris James (23:36):
should tell you
this after but I'll say it now
I've he's been invited to
Manchester City's training
ground, has she? Oh, my God,
Lea Turner (23:44):
we're both gonna
have, we'll be there at the same
time. Yeah, there'll be,
there'll be training at the same
time, I expect. So, um, yeah,
both future football stars.
That's that's exciting. Don't
cut that bit out. We can brag
about our kids. Yeah, they're
really nice as well. There, I
need to quickly interrupt our
conversation to tell you about
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subject to eligibility. So let's
go back to talking about
business. Give us a kind of, I
don't know, a summary of the
(24:47):
last three years, like, how have
things grown? What are the like
key points that have changed?
Chris James (24:53):
The main thing was
landing the first couple of
clients, and then the switch
from 80 quid for one session to
our. Think someone's saying, you
should, you need to have a
package and but sell a lot more.
So I sold 10, I think, for two
and a half grand. And the lady
paid on the call because, and
she was like, shall I pay now?
And I was like, yes, Chip
(25:14):
PayPal. And then I just
Lea Turner (25:15):
even built the
package at that
Chris James (25:17):
point, 10 sessions,
right? And that, that was a real
turning point, not only from the
financial like 10x whatever
point of view, but also from the
fact, like, when I had another
one to one client, I'm saying
the same stuff here. I was like,
I don't want a third and a
fourth. I do, but I don't want
to. So I was like, I started
building out, just in a notion
dashboard, some form of
(25:38):
structure and course, and then I
would lead the call based on the
problems that have been created
on the last call. I was like,
right? There's a bit of a
journey here, especially when
I'm repeating it to two and then
it turned into three. And I
think I only ever had three, one
to one clients before. I was
like, this needs to be something
might be four, three or four
before. I was like, this needs
(25:58):
to be something slightly
different. And then I joined a
couple of, like, cohort based
programs about Instagram at that
point, and I just saw how they
were structured. And that's
there was a day when I bought
two in one day, shitting myself
because one of them was four
grand, and it was a lot of money
at that point. Like it was
(26:18):
pretty much, I guess, take home
from a wage after tax, maybe
there and there about so I split
the guy, let me split the
payments. And it's pretty shit.
It was all right, like it was
very dull. There wasn't much
sense of community, which
definitely I'll speak to about
community as well. So I read one
of your posts yesterday,
Lea Turner (26:36):
well, on the pod or
later, both.
Chris James (26:40):
But yeah, I went
into this guy's community. I was
like, right? This is all the
stuff he's doing. Well, this is
all the stuff he's doing wrong.
Let's just maximize both. And
yeah, launched it originally as
a standalone course because I
tried to be clever, didn't have
anywhere near as many followers
or as much traffic as I needed
to do that. So I sold like, two
copies, refunded one and then
(27:02):
brought the second person into
content to clients. So she was
like the official first member,
and it launched with four
members inside. It was me
nervous as fuck conducting a
group call when I'd never done a
group call and probably didn't
really know what I was talking
about that much when it came to
like, certain aspects of
Instagram and organic marketing.
So it was a bit of wing in it,
(27:24):
self discovery and stuff. And
there were three lessons in this
course, which were master
classes. I presented live on the
Zoom calls and just uploaded.
And again, counterintuitive,
because most people would be do
what I did originally, like,
I'll go and build the course,
I'll build the landing pages,
build the emails, then we'll
launch shit non spoiled.
Lea Turner (27:41):
See, I did the
opposite. So God, someone said
to me, if you are constantly
repeating yourself and answering
the same questions, make it into
a course. And of course, I was
doing one to one LinkedIn
training, so I was repeating
myself a lot. So I went it.
Firstly, my CH, my rates now are
so much higher I can't not
(28:02):
everyone can afford it, but
there's lots of people that need
my help that would benefit from
my advice, but they can't afford
to pay my rate. Yeah, because
obviously I was like, exhausted,
and there was no way I could
keep going the rate I was going.
So it was like, right? Increase
the prices, reduce how many
clients I need to bring in and
improve the package in line with
the price increase, but I then
created a digital course, but it
(28:23):
took me seven months to create
my digital course, because I'm
not like you, and I wrote it
all, and I knew exactly what I
was going to do, but I had this
weird block about doing the
videos, and it took me, and it
was only the videos that took me
time. Everything was done, it
was ready, the graphics were
done, everything. I just
couldn't bring myself to record
the videos. But in that time, I
built such a waiting list for
this course that I'd been
talking about by the time I sold
(28:45):
it, and it was entirely my
fault. But as it turned out, it
worked out quite well because I
sold it and I had a huge waiting
list of people wanting it, and
then I relaunched a second
version of it last year, not
last year, the year before, and
it did very well again. And I
think that was, it's not for
sale anymore, taken off sale
because I don't do the LinkedIn
training anymore, but it's I did
(29:07):
the opposite, and it did work,
but I should have done it
sooner. I should have gone all
these one to ones are taking up
so much of my time. I'm
repeating myself so much. Make
it into videos. And you do that,
you put it all on YouTube. So
where did it go next? You had
these four people in your group,
and you had your one person that
you brought in. We
Chris James (29:26):
got a few more,
yeah, we got a few more clients
in slowly, and then it was Vicky
coming on board. Vicky Hanley,
so I met her. We DM she came to
a master class, then she hopped
on a sales call, and I just put
the price up, I think, to two
and a half grand. But because we
already had a bit of a
relationship and we liked each
(29:47):
other a little bit, I was like,
look, you'll be the last person
to sell this to a 2k and she
like, I mean, okay, cool. I
don't really liked her. And then
she went from 900 quid to a 5k
month because she committed to
the process. Massive
overthinker. I. Um, lacking in
in confidence. I've watched her
grow. She's, well, completely
different just from trust in the
(30:08):
process. And
Lea Turner (30:09):
she's so like the
content she creates on LinkedIn,
it stands out. She's funny,
she's she's thoughtful, she's
incredibly consistent. Her and
Katie, both of them, I was aware
of them years ago, like when
they first sort of started
working with you, because it,
you know, the algorithm tends to
show us lots of the same people
that we engage with. And I was
like, Oh, I like these two.
(30:30):
They're both funny. And I think,
I think before you were working
with them, I was seeing them on
my feed, and they've you just
watched the confidence grow of
you as a team, and of them
individually as well, and
watching their businesses
absolutely flourish. Yeah, which
is it's lovely to see. So what
happened next? So you've now got
an all female team, all female
(30:51):
to now got a Was there a reason
for that? Because you've just
you have gravitated to working
more with women on your team. Is
there a difference, but that
you've noticed between men and
women and why you find it easy,
or do you just like being bossed
around by women? I do get
Chris James (31:05):
bossed around
fucking how they rip me to
shreds, but I'm here for stuff
like that. Like, I've got quite
a dark sense of humor, so you
can anything, anything goes. But
I think the main reason it's not
in it's not been intentional,
like, I just hire based on
liking people and skill level,
and negligen people. Bit has to
come first. And I feel, and this
(31:26):
is very general, and I may
regret it or ask you to cut it
out, probably not. There's less
ego, and there's a higher work
ethic with women, particularly
mums, I would agree.
Lea Turner (31:40):
I'm not saying that
other people don't work hard,
but there's, there's a sense of
urgency and efficiency that you
have to have as a mum, because
you are much more limited with
the time you have available to
get things done.
Chris James (31:54):
Mums are fucking
superheroes, for the most part.
Yeah, they are. There's
exceptions to everyone, yeah,
for sure. So it's very like,
sweeping statement, but the
women that come into our program
as well, like, there are single
mums in there. Like, I won't
name names, but someone messaged
me yesterday. She did a 30 grand
month. Wow, that's life changing
already this month. And I don't
(32:15):
know what date is. I never know
Lea Turner (32:17):
that happens when
you become a mum. Certainly for
me, the motivation, the
priorities, everything just
changes. Because it's like it's
not just about me Surviving and
Thriving anymore, like there's
another human being that I'm
responsible for, and my success
literally determines their
future. And it just adds a whole
other dimension of of motivation
(32:39):
into you. It
Chris James (32:40):
can't be that
urgency piece, though, because I
think most people perform better
when they have a deadline in
front of them, or a limited
time, or constraints, whatever.
Again, that's something I say to
our clients, like, just put some
constraints in, even if they're
self imposed. You're trying to
get out and video and do your
course. I'm just like, I want to
see the first lesson by Monday,
and I'll help you with this.
Lea Turner (32:59):
So those companies
that that don't prioritize
hiring working mums. They're
like, No, you know, her comp,
her priorities would be
compromised. It actually flies
in the face of all of
motivations higher than ever.
They might have more sick days
because their kids are off sick,
but if they can work from home,
you know that they'll be doing
it with their sick baby on their
lap, or, you know, late at night
to make up the hours. It's It's
(33:20):
mad. And I think my in my
experience with the people that
I've worked with, I've
definitely, I definitely would
say that the people with the
kids, particularly mums, have
shown more, more grit and
determination and motivation,
because that's what business
needs, yeah, and it is, isn't
it? So okay, you wanted to,
(33:41):
let's because we don't want to
be this to go on for two hours.
Chris James (33:47):
Why did you talk
about streets? I think because
Lea Turner (33:49):
you run a community,
right? But your community wasn't
part it wasn't necessarily
intentional at the beginning.
Was it? You just had people that
went through the put everyone
Chris James (33:58):
in a Slack group
because I knew it would be
efficient and systemizable and
automatable, and, yeah, it's, I
think you, you could cultivate.
I've been in so many
communities. I don't know if
I've ever been in a really good
one. You've never been in mind,
though I've not. I will one day,
but I just know I won't be in
(34:19):
it. I just wouldn't be in it,
Lea Turner (34:21):
but I will not been
in it. But
Chris James (34:25):
I have never been
in a community where, let's say
that the head of it was actually
themselves and would level with
potential clients. And
therefore, when you don't get
that coming down from the top,
it kind of you can never connect
underneath it as well, I imagine
as a member. So that's one thing
that I and I imagine you do very
(34:47):
well, is just like, I'm just
myself. I'll take the piss out
myself. I'll take the piss out
of you. I'll call it straight,
I'll call you out on your
bullshit, and I'll introduce you
to people, and we'll try and
make it as fun as we can. Yeah,
I did. That's why I think the
community just evolved, because
it. Wasn't, like, trying to be
engineered, yeah, it was no
false engagement, or, like,
trying to get people to do
things.
Lea Turner (35:06):
It doesn't feel like
I'm Yeah, I am the founder of
that I remember as well. But I
am a member by choice because I
want to be in there. And there's
a lot of communities out there
where the person who starts the
community is just not there, and
they sort of leave members to
their own devices until it's
time for a call or it's so
they're there a bare minimum
that they think they can get
away with, whereas I actually,
(35:27):
genuinely enjoy being in the
community right multiple times a
day, and they're answering
questions, sending voice notes
in response to advice and like
questions people ask, tagging
people. When someone says, Oh,
do you know anyone who does
that? I tag people that are
relevant. I'm responding to DMS
in there. I'm scheduling events
and things in the what. That's
where
Chris James (35:47):
it's got to come
from. It's like just a position
of actually caring and giving a
shit.
Lea Turner (35:52):
I created the
community that I needed and
wanted so that I could use it. I
didn't create it to make loads
of extra money. I was like, I
need people around me. I need
education myself, and I've got
all these experts that will
present master classes that I
can learn from other people can
learn from, and we're all on
this journey together, and I
don't feel like I'm way ahead of
everybody else. I'm just a
facilitator and someone who's
(36:14):
there to encourage and kind of
glue things together. I know it
can't always be like that, and I
will have to eventually spend
less time in there, but not at
the moment. I love it. So do you
find that in in content to
clients as well, people hang
around because I've got people
that are in the hole, that are
still involved in C to C.
Chris James (36:33):
Yeah, we've we have
a between a 60 and a 70% renewal
rate. So our program's six
months long. More than half of
the people want to stay. And I
think they come for the info.
They come for the flashy
results. They experience the
mindset shifts and the start of
systemization, potentially the
start of really scale, or
starting to scale. We never
(36:54):
claim to scale businesses, but
certainly sustain systemize. And
then they're like, they stay for
the people and because it's
enjoyable.
Lea Turner (37:05):
Let me take you back
to that point where you were
handing your notice in at the
agency, because I know you loved
that job, so it wasn't like
maybe you weren't so enamored of
it by the end, because you were
excited by
Chris James (37:20):
your moderation
drifted, but yeah, I was working
with my friends. I basically
dictated my whole day work from
home whenever I want. Could go
and get pissed whenever I
wanted, with clients or with
team or with the MDS
Lea Turner (37:31):
salary. Yeah. So
it's scary. What would, what
would be the advice that that
that version of Chris needed
that would have made the last
three years, maybe less
mistakes, or it would have gone
a little bit smoother, like,
because there's people out there
that are hopefully listening to
us, who are thinking, you know,
(37:52):
I'm in a job, and I've got this
idea for a business, and I'm a
little bit scared, and, you
know, and then job pays well,
it's paying my mortgage, It's
looking after my family, what
would have helped you to avoid
maybe some of the the trips in
the road that you've had.
Chris James (38:07):
I can give all,
like, a few positives and stuff,
but I think it's more important
to go, like, just start with a
big disclaimer. Like, this shit
isn't for everyone. Yeah, this
is very, very hard. And I'm sure
you'd agree. And like, you have
got to have a certain, certain
level of resilience and grit, as
you mentioned. But if you think
(38:28):
you've had that, you've got
that, or been exposed to
situations like this before,
then absolutely do it, but make
sure you've got the financial
runway. That's the disclaimer.
You need to be able to cover
your ass for a bit, because you
will have rocky months for the
first 612, 36 I don't know,
yeah,
Lea Turner (38:44):
some people, even
beyond that. You know, we've had
people on the podcast that have
done incredibly well in their
first year or two, and then
they've gone, holy shit,
everything's falling apart.
Something like COVID happens, or
there's a bad year in
recruitment, and the recruitment
industry is decimated that you
just can't plan for the future.
So having that, that's the
Chris James (39:03):
first, like, I'm
always the negative frame first,
which I would call realism
rather than pessimism. But then,
like, the optimism and the
optimism is, it's amazing. Like,
this is my job. I'm sat here
with you. We've had a laugh out
there. We've got a brew. We're
gonna go and get pissed
afterwards, but now neither of
us are drinking, so maybe it's
not that fun. You might sway me
if you were to go on, but no,
(39:24):
like, this is great. This is
amazing. I'm gonna go back and
work on some like, build
something, which is what I love
doing. So it's really good. But
there's the painful bit, the dip
in the J curve that we kind of
talked about, and the advice I
think that you need there is,
well, if I was saying it to me,
it would be like, what's the
(39:46):
worst that can happen? Like,
what you go and get another job,
but you've already got a job,
Lea Turner (39:52):
and that's that's
true, right? Because so many
people are like, I'm going to,
I'm going to give up this job.
Have a go at my business. But.
If it all fails, it's it's not
the end of the world. The skills
that you have for the job that
you're in now you still have,
and if you try running a
business, you're going to have a
whole load of new skills. I
Chris James (40:11):
don't think there's
anything that grows you as a
person more than trying to run a
business. You grow I don't
Lea Turner (40:16):
know traveling as
well. I've never traveled.
Chris James (40:20):
I've traveled here
summer holiday that on atomic on
but, yeah, I think you learn so
many life skills when you're
building a business that you
will become more valuable if you
had to go back to employment
anyway. Plus, if you're trying
to go down the personal brand
route, you're just going to look
more attractive to potential
(40:41):
employers,
Lea Turner (40:42):
confidence goes up,
resistance goes up, yeah,
Chris James (40:45):
yeah, great. And
like, resilience, to throw those
words in again, yeah. And yeah,
it's, it's absolutely crazy.
Someone said to me, they were
like, it's, it's more of a risk
being employed for you, yeah,
because what if it's all taken
away, you may be made redundant.
We did have to make some people
redundant after COVID. Obviously
they're not gonna get rid of
sales.
Lea Turner (41:04):
We talked to loads
of people in season one that
that was literally what
happened. COVID happened
redundancy, where
Chris James (41:10):
they went? One
wasn't they? Michelle
Lea Turner (41:13):
Hartley wasn't made
redundant, but, but COVID made
her situation a lot more
unpalatable. Kate Hughes again,
so we there was a lot of people
that had that shove that they
needed to take that risk, to go
out on their own. Obviously,
hopefully we're not going to go
through a COVID lockdown ever
again or anything remotely
similar in our lifetimes. But it
(41:35):
shouldn't take a global disaster
to give you the nudge that you
need to take that risk, and
ultimately, and how I always
think about it is, what if I
don't take that risk, I'm going
to stay in the same job for God
knows how many years. I'm never
really going to even know what
my potential might be. Because
you've
Chris James (41:53):
scary. It's really
scary, you know, I've got to say
as well. Mine wasn't like a
fully 100% conscious, active,
whatever the word is, choice to
leave. I was pushed. I was
nudged because my brother in law
was killed, which happened in
the May when I was already
started. C to Z had already been
running for five months, but
that was obviously completely
(42:14):
unexpected. Rocked the family,
and night it happened, I just
went and got leathered at home
after I've been I've been at my
sisters all night. Got home
late, just got absolutely
hammered. And that was I
remember thinking, like, fucking
life is crazy. Like, this is
fucking mad. So I was like, I
need to do exactly. If he was,
(42:35):
like, healthy guy just on his
way to work. If that can happen
that fast. I was like, I need to
do I just need to live it. Stop
putting things off and just go
for it now. And like the net as
soon as I went back to work very
next week, or, I think, had a
couple of weeks off, obviously.
And then I just started planting
seeds. And I was my first
official C to C. First ever day
(42:56):
was first of July. It's,
Lea Turner (42:58):
it's funny, because
that's, and this is something I
was talking to our guest, James
about in in before we were on
the podcast. I now not saying I
was lucky. I lost my dad when I
was 10. That's not lucky, but it
gave me a perspective on life
and how preciously short it is,
because he was only 41 that's
only a year and a half older
than I am now, and I always had
(43:20):
in my head like, what if I don't
make it past that age? I need to
have done all of the things that
I want to have done by that age.
You know, I've had a kid, I've
been in love, I've traveled the
world, I've started a business,
I've helped loads of people. And
my dad died, and there was 300
flipping people, like at his
funeral, and I went. He was a
window cleaner. He earned no
money, but he was a happy,
smiley, friendly person. I want
(43:42):
to be able to make an impact.
And if I can get half as many
people that will miss me when
I'm gone, I've done good. But
having that perspective, that
shock of suddenly realizing that
life is super short, makes the
risks more worth taking, because
you don't feel like you know
people who, who just all they do
(44:02):
is save for their retirement.
Well, who says you're going to
live that long? Like, well, what
if you spend 20 years of your
working life working for
somebody else, filling your
pension, and then you're hit by
a car when you're 40? That's why
you
Chris James (44:15):
go work in sprints.
I think it's like, I like to go,
like, really head on and like, I
will work I'll work 12 out. I
love it. I find it very hard to
come away from it, but when I
do, I can and do you actually
relax? Yeah, Christmas was
amazing. Yeah, so good. I found
it so hard to get back into it.
Though I slept like crazy hours,
(44:36):
12 hours, and it's like, and
it's
Lea Turner (44:39):
the first year that
I've actually genuinely switched
off over Christmas, I think for
about two and a half weeks, I
was still obviously going into
the community, but we didn't do
any master classes or anything
in the community. It was just
the minimum stuff we we front
loaded. We did loads on the run
up to make sure that people
didn't feel short changed if we
stopped over Christmas. But no
one, everyone. We. Wanted
(45:00):
everyone to be encouraged to
have a rest, or go through them,
go through the library, of other
things that they had to catch up
on Christmas
Chris James (45:05):
morning, that you
must
Lea Turner (45:09):
abandon the roast
potatoes. You need to learn
this. But yeah, it was the, I
think, the first year in in five
years in business, in this area
of business, for me, that I've
actually gone, I'm taking time
off, and I'm going to not think
about work too much and properly
switched off. And
Chris James (45:26):
that's the thing as
well, you end up creating these
problems that, oh God, if I have
the time off, I'm really going
to struggle when, actually,
hello, but you come back and
like, either it sorted itself
out, someone else has sorted it,
or it didn't fucking matter in
the first place,
Lea Turner (45:41):
yeah. But yeah,
there was me thinking, oh, I
need to reply to emails. They're
going to be urgent. I'm
thinking, hold on a minute. This
person's office Christmas as
well. Yeah. Why am I rush?
Chris James (45:49):
Is like, yeah,
quite, quite universal. Oh,
Chris, thank
Lea Turner (45:53):
you so much for
coming on the podcast. It's, it
was a very long journey all the
way from Macclesfield. It
Chris James (45:59):
was, yeah, well, it
was 20 minutes on the train,
yeah.
Lea Turner (46:04):
Well, I appreciate
the effort. Supporting small
business owners is my biggest
passion, and that's what my
membership community The HoLT is
all about. Inside The HoLT are
more than 150 master classes
from experts in every business
skill you could ever want, and
we add more every single month.
There are also sales clinics,
tech clinics, well being,
(46:25):
support and advice and discounts
on a huge range of software and
services. But it's so much more
than just trainings and
resources. Everyone inside The
HoLT shares their years of
knowledge and experience
generously with kindness and
without judgment. They're super
active, the chat channels are
buzzing, and it's like having
600 business cheerleaders in
(46:46):
your pocket willing you to
succeed and helping you wherever
they can. And we offer all of
this and much more at an
extremely low price, because we
know that budgets are tight when
you're bootstrapping a business,
The HoLT is a kind, inclusive
and non judgmental place where
everyone knows that working
together is the fastest way to
succeed, and it makes it a whole
(47:08):
lot more fun. We would love for
you to join us. You can check
out the full details on the
halt.com or if communities
aren't really your vibe and you
just want access to the hundreds
of expert master class
recordings with a combined value
of more than 10,000 pounds. You
can access the vault right now
for just 20 pounds per month.
The Vault is all the master
(47:29):
classes with none of the chat or
distractions, just pure value.
Visit the-holt.com/vault to sign
up and start binging your way
through brilliant trainings from
leading experts, you.
This shit isn't for
(00:00):
everyone. Yeah, this is very,
very hard. You have got to have
a certain level of resilience
and grit. But if you think
you've had that, you've got
that, or been exposed to
situations like this before,
then absolutely do it, but make
sure you've got the financial
runway. That's the disclaimer.
You need to be able to cover
your ass for a bit, because you
will have rocky months for the
(00:21):
first 612, 36
Lea Turner (00:36):
Chris James, welcome
to the Holt Survival Guide for
small businesses. I feel weird
because I'm going like all
serious presenter mode with you,
and we're very rarely serious
together. And probably should
warn people listening that if
you're in the car with your
kids, he's got a potty mouth, so
let's, let's just trigger
warning there or not, your son
me swear warning, yeah, my son's
listened to you on a podcast
(00:57):
before that I was listening to
in the car, all right. How was
it? I had to turn it off because
he complained about the swearing
shit. I mean. So before we
really get into things, tell us
a little bit about what you do.
Chris James (01:10):
I help people make
money by putting together an
offer and packaging their
expertise and market themselves
using organic content and then
generate leads, win clients and
deliver successful results to
those clients. And it works. It
works. Yeah, we've got a wall of
fame, which I put together the
other day, which is just, it's
(01:30):
hard to finish scrolling,
Lea Turner (01:32):
yeah. So I've, I
have a lot of your clients in my
community, or people who are
keen to become your clients,
because they've seen the master
classes that you've done within
the Holt, and that's really why
I invited you on here. I know
we're friends outside of this,
but the fact that your master
classes within the Holt was so
well received, and people said
that it really worked and gave
(01:53):
them a new perspective on
things. But let's dispel a myth,
because it's not easy working
with you. The process that you
the processes that you put in
place for people. It's craft,
right, that they really have to
commit to the process to get the
results that your successful
clients have. And I think
there's a lot out there in terms
of business advice and
(02:15):
oversimplification of processes,
and you can do these three step
processes, and this is going to
be the results people like to
sell a dream, but the reality
is, it's hard work, and you are
one of the hardest working
business owners I've known over
the um, how long have we known
each other? Three or four years?
Now, it's gotta be, can't be
(02:36):
four. And how long's content to
clients been going third of
Chris James (02:39):
John, 22 so three
years, three and a half,
probably, probably, yeah, about
three years,
Lea Turner (02:44):
and you've had
incredible growth, but you have
worked your absolute ass off to
get there. What would you say to
like, did you expect it when you
left your business, the jobs
that you had? Did you expect it
to be as hard as it has
Chris James (03:00):
been? I don't think
it's I've just made it harder by
trying to do too much at once,
right? So is it hard work? Yes,
anyone that sells any sort of
business program from the ground
up, like, end to end that tells
you it's going to be easy is
lying like the program's
obviously hard, not because the
program's hard because business
(03:21):
is fucking hard. Like, there's a
there's a difference there. Did
I expect to work as hard I love
it. Like I'm already in my head.
Like, What time am I going to be
finished doing this podcast so I
can go back and finish those
YouTube scripts, so I'm on time
for tomorrow, because I just
fucking love it. Inconvenience
being it. I love it. So it's not
(03:42):
been it's not been easy, but I
think it's been hard, like it's
not hard, it's just work.
Lea Turner (03:48):
And that's a big
difference, isn't it? Because
people say that, you know the
cliche, you never work at any
life if you love your job,
right? I mean, there are, we all
have days where we don't love
all of it. There's all aspects
of business that we're not so
pleased about, and at the
beginning, like, what were the
bits at the beginning that you
really didn't like doing?
(04:08):
Because there's got to be
something like, I'm terrible at
accounts, so the first thing I
did was hire an accountant.
Yeah,
Chris James (04:15):
I never did that. I
outsource as fast as I possibly
can so I can continue doing what
I really like doing, which is
building stuff, delivering to
clients, and talking, basically,
talking about business and
marketing. That's what I like
doing. So I try and accounts is
sorted day to day, check ins
with clients. That's outsourced,
(04:36):
writing my emails, most of it
outsourced, or certainly
repurposed and then outsourced.
So there are a little thing, I
mean, even the technical stuff,
like hopping into Zapier and
setting up automations, I enjoy
doing that. I spent a whole day
yesterday building one lesson,
one master class on engagement,
and I was just buzzing off it. I
just loved it. I
Lea Turner (04:58):
I took too long to
start. Outsourcing out of fear.
I was nervous. It is scary, but
you did it so quickly. You and
You seem like you've done it
quite confidently. Was that true
or or were you overcoming a fear
of doing it? You were just like,
well, I can't I'm not going to
grow as quickly as I want to if
I don't do this. So I'm going to
suck, suck up the fear.
Chris James (05:18):
Well, it's
something we speak about to our
clients as early on as I can, as
soon as revenue permits, you
will have identified the tasks
that either need doing, but not
by you or you don't like doing.
And you know, if you look at the
CEO of a massive company,
they're just going to be they're
not going to be fanning around,
scheduling the social media
posts or doing the accounts or
(05:39):
invoicing or something like
that. And you need to kind of
approach it with that. Approach
it with that mindset. So I
identified quite quickly, like
these boxes need ticking, but
they don't need ticking by me.
So therefore I'm going to get
someone who can do some of what
I would call the grunt work. And
it was just that. It was a
Filipino VA who I outsourced to
first, and she was great. She
(06:02):
was more expensive than most
Filipino vas. And I think that
outsourcing and paying money to
someone on the other side of the
world who doesn't have the same
first language as you is a
little bit scary, but what I
always advise clients do is just
like focus on the lowest level
responsibility tasks first. So
let's say they were going to
(06:23):
manage your LinkedIn, you would
just give them a list of people
and, say, connect with a few, 20
people a day off this list. You
don't just chuck them straight
into the DMS and comments and
have them pretending to be you
like work your way up to that.
Same with with anything. If you
want them to design graphics,
you don't give them a whole like
program to design. You go do a
few single images first or
(06:44):
whatever, and just build it up.
Yeah? And that is, I think, how
I've worked, because I am a,
well, yeah, people will describe
me still as a control freak,
micromanage maybe I'm a lot
better than I was, yeah. So
yeah, there was definitely some
fear, but I overcame it by just,
did
Lea Turner (07:00):
you find that that
made more work for you in the
beginning, though, because,
because it does, doesn't it? You
you where
Chris James (07:06):
you've got, like,
the investment and effort before
you see the return the same when
Lea Turner (07:10):
you hire a member of
staff, right? If you hire an
employee, there's a period
you're going to have to train
them, yeah, and that can feel
counterintuitive, and then you
go through that demotivation,
because I've hired someone so
they should be making my life
easier, but actually they're
making my life harder in the
beginning, and sometimes it's
hard to push through, and you
just want to give up like
they're not they're not getting
it, probably because we're not
(07:31):
explaining it properly, yeah,
and then I'm having to actually
feed them work because they're
not familiar enough to work off
their own initiative. Yet, I
found, though, because I've
hired freelancers who are
really, really good at what they
do, and I know that they're
better than I am. That's helped
me be more confident in so Alex
(07:51):
Thompson, who does my email
marketing, he's so much better
at it than I am, so he's done a
launch for me, then I've worked
in collaboration with him to do
further launches. And then I
just handed it over, and I said,
I don't want, I want to be hands
off now. And basically, we will
have a meeting once a month for
an hour to plan what's happening
next. And then I don't touch it.
(08:13):
And like, the first time I see
the emails is when they drop
into my inbox, same
Chris James (08:17):
with me and Kate's
gone, and I love it. I don't
even, I don't even approve
Lea Turner (08:21):
them. No, I don't,
because it's not, although I do
regret that if occasional error
goes out,
Chris James (08:26):
yeah, okay, he's
messed up a couple of times, but
she knows what she's done. Yeah,
right? About the Freelancer
mentality, right? You pay more
for it, yeah, but if you get the
right fit, which usually you do,
because you can choose and be a
lot more selective based on a
portfolio or an existing
business or whatever, you're
going to reap the reward?
Lea Turner (08:45):
Yeah? 100% Yeah, my
first hire, or my first
outsourcing was to Luke Manton,
my VA and still with you, right?
Yeah, he's still with me. We had
a break for a while where I had
a employed PA, and that wouldn't
really work out she was she was
fine, you know, I wouldn't put
anything on her, but I would,
because she was remote. I'd
(09:06):
forget she exists, and be like,
Oh no, I need to, like, actually
give her stuff to
Chris James (09:10):
do. I'm a bit like
that. We might have VA she like,
bollocks me, yeah.
Lea Turner (09:14):
Whereas enough work,
Luke has a whole list of things
that he can do if I'm not
sending him stuff. But, I mean,
I'm so much busier than I was at
the beginning. That he's and he
does all like my my travel
arrangements and my personal
life, like he organizes my
personal life. Reminds me that
there's birthdays coming up and
I need to get gifts, and if I
(09:36):
need to book a hotel or a train
Chris James (09:39):
together, saying
Ivy has got football and she's
going to be late for her next
appointment if you don't get
there on time on Thursday, the
31st or whatever, I'm just like,
Lea Turner (09:49):
looks like my
business man, so good. Even
like, my bin schedule is put
into my Google calendar so I
know which bin to go out each
week, because I won't forget.
And even though
Chris James (09:59):
not you. Do as a
business owner, right? You need
to retain certain information.
You do not need to retain that.
You know
Lea Turner (10:04):
what? I think that's
partly why I have the time and
the mental capacity to keep
building and innovating with
what I'm doing. Is because there
are and don't get me wrong, my
mental load is still enormous.
I'm a solo parent, right? But
because the unnecessary stuff is
minimized and it's just all in
Google, and Google sends it to
(10:26):
my Alexa, who shouts at me
across the house, whatever room
I'm in, I get a reminder from
her, and that helps me to have
the space in my brain to be able
to create and innovate and
market and have ideas that I
need to have. So one of the
things that I really was
interested in talking to you
(10:46):
about is because you've grown
really fast, and you've traveled
a lot, and you've spent a lot of
money on amazing coaching
packages that you say you're
very honest with your feedback
on the investments, whether they
were worth it, what you've
learned, you know, what you've
got out of them, but all of
(11:06):
that's been made possible by the
fact you've got Amy at home,
your amazing wife. So you've got
Amy, you've got stepson, Edward,
and your daughter Ivy, who's
nine, she's same as Dex, isn't
she? And there's a lot of
people, and I am guilty of this.
I have a at times watching how
much content you're putting out
and how much success you're
(11:27):
having. I've gone, God, Chris
has done this fast. I could
have, I could have done this as
fast as Chris. And I'm not
really guilty of comparison ISIS
very often. But I did look at
you, and I was like, Damn, he's
doing really, really well. He's
so dedicated, he's so
structured. And then I had to
check myself, because I'm a solo
parent. The two Exactly,
exactly, right? I'm a solo
(11:48):
parent. I've done this all while
juggling looking after a home
and a child and pets and
everything full time, and you've
got Amy at home who is probably,
without doubt, your biggest
supporter, right?
Chris James (11:59):
She's a reason for
all of this. If it wasn't for
her, I'd probably still be in
that call center. She's, she's
pushed me or told me to do
things that I was fearful of
doing. Quitting the job. Was
one. Quitting my job before
that, to go to the marketing
agency, was the other one.
She's, like, you just need to do
it. Like, what are you what you
worried about? Like, you always
end up working it out. And then
I have to check myself and go,
(12:20):
Yeah, every time I've wanted to
do something big, I thought I
would fail when I've actually
done it, I've never failed. So
just take it head on.
Lea Turner (12:27):
So she's almost like
the anti imposter on your
shoulder. She's the
Chris James (12:31):
she's my spine.
Yeah, everything. And
Lea Turner (12:38):
that's, I think
that's an important message for
people now, not everyone with a
partner has a supportive
partner, right? That,
unfortunately, that's not the
truth for a lot of people.
Probably why I choose to stay on
my own is because I think if I
don't get someone like Amy, I
don't want anyone like it's not
Amy. Don't worry. I'm not going
to steal your wife. Well, that
(13:01):
why you keep us apart
occasionally? I've never met
Chris James (13:06):
just in case. Oh,
there
Lea Turner (13:10):
you go. I'm in with
a chance. But I think people
underestimate the importance of
having a partner that makes it
possible, or that, at the very
least encourages and supports
you and cheer leads you. Where
do you think you'd be now if she
wasn't such a supportive person?
Chris James (13:30):
There's two sides
to support, isn't there? There's
like, the mental and the
emotional, and then there's the
operational, physical, day to
day. We're talking about before,
where Amy takes the lion's share
of everything in terms, I mean,
she's still got what I would
call between a full and a part
time job, yeah, so it's not
quite full time. There's
flexibility. She works from
(13:50):
home. So where would I be
without that? Well, if I still
had Ivy, I imagine I'd have a
week of like, chaos with Ivy
running around, which would
like, resemble your life, and
then I'd be a weak, solo parent,
and if Amy, if I was with Amy,
so but going back, I would still
be in that call center. I'd
still be in there, like unfilled
(14:12):
for like potential, making 200
calls a day, hating my boss,
hating my life, getting pissed
every weekend, Living for the
Weekend, hating life on Monday.
And that was a constant cycle
for like, five years there that
maybe a bit bit less.
Lea Turner (14:28):
And I met you when
you were working at an agency,
and you were sort of on, that
was the good you just started
out like doing side stuff,
hadn't you at that point? Yeah,
I think
Chris James (14:37):
we had a piss
Instagram Live or something. So
it
Unknown (14:42):
doesn't
Chris James (14:44):
sound like us.
Lea Turner (14:47):
So in terms of what
you've done over the last three
years with content to clients,
what did content to clients look
like when you started like where
did the idea come from? Because
you were an expert in sales.
Right, sales and marketing was
your thing. Sales
Chris James (15:02):
first. Then I
learned how important marketing
was, which I believe is much
more important than sales in the
grand scheme of things. And
then, yeah, I was working at
this marketing agency. I
remember I was thinking about it
on the train here. What was the
point like? What was the turning
point when things did start to
actually change. It was very
(15:23):
early on in COVID, where I
hadn't been furloughed, but and
I was still had to ring people
and do outreach for the agency
at home. When I was like, God, I
need something to do. So I
started, like looking I started
reading books, and one of them
was Daniel Priestley's. There
was a Ryan Holiday book in
there, much more mindset
focused. And I was like, fuck
this. I need to do something
(15:44):
different. Now. I don't know
what it is. I'm just gonna try.
And I shaved my hair, completely
shaved my hair off, which I've
been known to do because I was
drinking like a bottle of rum at
night at the start of lockdown,
like pointing a load of weight,
eating takeaways. But I was
like, something's got to change.
And then Amy came out. And I had
Edwards into the gardens. It was
really sunny at the start of
(16:06):
lockdown on there. And I had
Edwards gaming chair, which is
like a nice shaped beanbag, and
we've got a picture of it, which
I need to find. I am a top off,
shades on, and I had this
skinhead. And I was reading a
book, and Amy came out, like,
what are you doing? Reading?
She's like, you don't read, you
can't read, motherfucker. And I
(16:27):
was like, I'm reading. And she's
like, why? And I remember
specifically, and she can
remember as well. Like, look
tired. And I was like, I'm
reinventing myself as a joke.
But I was also deadly serious,
and she just laughed, I think,
and walked off or whatever. And
that was the point I can
remember like it would have been
a Ryan Holiday or a Daniel
Priestley book, key person of
(16:48):
influence. And it all started
from there, and it just started
fueling my brain with Audible
and self development, what I
would call fluff and bullshit
now, but you do actually need an
element of it in in your life,
and much more action than
theory. And that's what it sort
of looked like. And then I put
out some Instagram content. It
was all about B to B sales. It
(17:08):
was quite bland, quite boring.
And someone reached out to me
and said, Can I pay you to help
me with this? I was like, what?
I was like, Yeah, 80 quid. Just
got 80 quid off. This guy had a
call with him and helped him
look at his sales process.
That's
Lea Turner (17:23):
all you need, right?
That that first person to take a
chance on you, that
Chris James (17:27):
feeling, is built.
I've sold stuff for multiple,
five figures now, for the
business, that was nothing
compares to that first first
couple. That one was just that I
Lea Turner (17:38):
remember the same
thing. Because when I first
decided I was going to start
transcribing like all the way
back in 2011 and I I'd been in
Thailand, and I decided I was
going to be a I was going to do
typing to earn some extra money
to pay for more travel. So skin
and I put an ad on Gumtree, and
this property developer that
used to do these scammy
(17:58):
guaranteed rent schemes messaged
me and wanted me to type up some
of his like calls that he'd
done, and then they were going
to turn them into training
manuals. And I typed loads of
them, and it was utter bullshit,
like it was
Chris James (18:11):
lies or just it was
just falling
Lea Turner (18:15):
idiots, basically,
is selling hope and fake. It
sounded good, but you could I
was smart enough to see through
the lines. I was like, you're
taking desperate people and
giving them what seems too good
to be true, and they're eating
it up. And as it as it turned
out, he got arrested and
imprisoned for stabbing his
cousin, who was having an affair
(18:35):
with his wife. And I only found
that out because I he was
overdue paying me, and I Googled
his name to try and find out
details to contact him. It's
like, Yeah, I know, right. So
how's his life now? Well, I
assume he's still in prison. I
don't know. I've never Googled
it. Maybe I should
Chris James (18:56):
transcribe his
prison but
Lea Turner (18:59):
it was that one
action proof someone's going to
take a chance on me. And, you
know, it didn't. It didn't go
well, and I never got my invoice
paid, but I did end up getting
more clients off the back of
that, and it gave me the
confidence to try to go, there's
something in this. Someone's
going to take a chance for me.
Let's keep going and see where
this goes. And that, obviously,
(19:19):
then led me to LinkedIn, and
we've crossed paths. You were
very much on Instagram when we
first met, and I kind of bullied
you into starting using
LinkedIn. I remember having the
conversations, and you were
like, oh, LinkedIn is dry.
LinkedIn is boring. It's not the
place for me. I was like, you've
got so much content, and you're
so good at content
Chris James (19:38):
on Instagram
LinkedIn. So I've been on
LinkedIn for years just using
the sales nav side of things.
And I would, I would never
really post content, even when I
went into that agency role,
right? And I was like, we need
to use LinkedIn. But other
people in previous jobs have
been saying things like, Oh, you
need to, you know, if your head
shot should have the company
(19:59):
logo in the back. Ground, and
I'm just, I remember going, I'm
not doing that. But then I got
to the agency, and I didn't have
to watch what I said on
LinkedIn, like it was complete
free reign at this agency, and
my best mate was the director.
He's just like I am, if not more
brutal to be fair. And I could
go on and say what I want, but I
still just felt this. I don't
know if it was a colleague
block, a potential client,
(20:19):
existing client block something
mentally, just stopping me from
doing it. And then, yeah, after
we spoke, and then I'd seen a
few other people on LinkedIn who
said, do it. I started up a
page. This is why I got blocked
from LinkedIn six months ago,
two personal pages. No, I set up
a page as Dave Smith, or
(20:41):
something like that. So I could
go on and block everyone who I
was working with, like
colleagues at my role at the
time. So I went on as Dave, Big
Dave, I think I had an emoji for
my picture, blocked them all,
and then I changed it over,
which I think was April 22 it's
only two months before I left my
job, and then I changed to Chris
(21:03):
James and started building out
the profile properly and stuff,
I went and blocked like clients
from the agency. I blocked
everyone who worked there,
potential clients. They're still
all blocked now, to be fair, so
I've just never gone back and
unblocked them. So but that was
obviously fear of losing job and
fear of judgment as well. It
wasn't just like, let's put that
was definitely scared what they
(21:23):
would think, um, because I had
some good mates there, and then,
yeah, like, Insta, slowly is
phased out. I'll bring it back
at some point. LinkedIn is by
far, LinkedIn, YouTube, email,
but LinkedIn at the top. It's
not my favorite, but it's the
one. There's definitely elements
Lea Turner (21:39):
of LinkedIn that can
be really hard. You have to kind
of detach yourself, and I think,
and I had the same block when I
started using LinkedIn. I was
like, Oh, my God, these are all
people that I went to school
with and people that I used to
work with, they're going to
think I'm proper with. And I got
loads of messages from people
saying, oh, all I see is your
LinkedIn content. You're posting
all the time. I was thinking,
but hold on a minute. You've
only got 200 connections, yeah.
(22:01):
So if only one exactly. So if
only 1% which is about average,
one to 2% of people that have a
LinkedIn profile, are actually
creating content. It's really,
really low, over a billion users
and like so, if you're connected
to 200 people and only one 1%
are creating content, that's me
and one other person. So of
course, your news feed is full
of my content. I'm not posting
(22:22):
loads. It's once a day, but that
you're just seeing my entire
week's worth of content on one
scroll. Yeah, yeah. So of
course, it's annoying and fair
enough disconnect block me,
that's that's fine, but I think
you forget, you feel like
they're judging you for being
obsessed with it. And it's like,
well, I'm not obsessed, like,
I'm doing one post today. Yeah,
(22:42):
I
Chris James (22:43):
think people view
it as, like, an ego thing,
right? Like, oh, they're on
there talking about themselves.
They must have an ego. I
genuinely feel like I had much
more of an ego when I didn't
post compared to, yeah, when I
do now, a lot daily, yeah, I
find, like,
Lea Turner (22:56):
I learn a lot of
stuff from creating content as
well from the conversations you
have in the comments sections,
but it's that old thing, isn't
it? People saying, Oh, you just
after attention? Yes, that's
what marketing is. If you don't
want attention, like they call
it paying attention for a
reason, right? You're paying
attention. You have to spend it.
I need it to be able to sell my
business if I don't market
(23:17):
myself, which asking for
attention on the internet is
marketing myself. That's
literally the definition. If I
don't do that, I'm not paying my
mortgage. I can't pay to feed my
darling Bronson and my son's
ridiculous Satsuma habit that he
eats about eight of those
Satsuma at the moment, I
Chris James (23:36):
should tell you
this after but I'll say it now
I've he's been invited to
Manchester City's training
ground, has she? Oh, my God,
Lea Turner (23:44):
we're both gonna
have, we'll be there at the same
time. Yeah, there'll be,
there'll be training at the same
time, I expect. So, um, yeah,
both future football stars.
That's that's exciting. Don't
cut that bit out. We can brag
about our kids. Yeah, they're
really nice as well. There, I
need to quickly interrupt our
conversation to tell you about
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subject to eligibility. So let's
go back to talking about
business. Give us a kind of, I
don't know, a summary of the
(24:47):
last three years, like, how have
things grown? What are the like
key points that have changed?
Chris James (24:53):
The main thing was
landing the first couple of
clients, and then the switch
from 80 quid for one session to
our. Think someone's saying, you
should, you need to have a
package and but sell a lot more.
So I sold 10, I think, for two
and a half grand. And the lady
paid on the call because, and
she was like, shall I pay now?
And I was like, yes, Chip
(25:14):
PayPal. And then I just
Lea Turner (25:15):
even built the
package at that
Chris James (25:17):
point, 10 sessions,
right? And that, that was a real
turning point, not only from the
financial like 10x whatever
point of view, but also from the
fact, like, when I had another
one to one client, I'm saying
the same stuff here. I was like,
I don't want a third and a
fourth. I do, but I don't want
to. So I was like, I started
building out, just in a notion
dashboard, some form of
(25:38):
structure and course, and then I
would lead the call based on the
problems that have been created
on the last call. I was like,
right? There's a bit of a
journey here, especially when
I'm repeating it to two and then
it turned into three. And I
think I only ever had three, one
to one clients before. I was
like, this needs to be something
might be four, three or four
before. I was like, this needs
(25:58):
to be something slightly
different. And then I joined a
couple of, like, cohort based
programs about Instagram at that
point, and I just saw how they
were structured. And that's
there was a day when I bought
two in one day, shitting myself
because one of them was four
grand, and it was a lot of money
at that point. Like it was
(26:18):
pretty much, I guess, take home
from a wage after tax, maybe
there and there about so I split
the guy, let me split the
payments. And it's pretty shit.
It was all right, like it was
very dull. There wasn't much
sense of community, which
definitely I'll speak to about
community as well. So I read one
of your posts yesterday,
Lea Turner (26:36):
well, on the pod or
later, both.
Chris James (26:40):
But yeah, I went
into this guy's community. I was
like, right? This is all the
stuff he's doing. Well, this is
all the stuff he's doing wrong.
Let's just maximize both. And
yeah, launched it originally as
a standalone course because I
tried to be clever, didn't have
anywhere near as many followers
or as much traffic as I needed
to do that. So I sold like, two
copies, refunded one and then
(27:02):
brought the second person into
content to clients. So she was
like the official first member,
and it launched with four
members inside. It was me
nervous as fuck conducting a
group call when I'd never done a
group call and probably didn't
really know what I was talking
about that much when it came to
like, certain aspects of
Instagram and organic marketing.
So it was a bit of wing in it,
(27:24):
self discovery and stuff. And
there were three lessons in this
course, which were master
classes. I presented live on the
Zoom calls and just uploaded.
And again, counterintuitive,
because most people would be do
what I did originally, like,
I'll go and build the course,
I'll build the landing pages,
build the emails, then we'll
launch shit non spoiled.
Lea Turner (27:41):
See, I did the
opposite. So God, someone said
to me, if you are constantly
repeating yourself and answering
the same questions, make it into
a course. And of course, I was
doing one to one LinkedIn
training, so I was repeating
myself a lot. So I went it.
Firstly, my CH, my rates now are
so much higher I can't not
(28:02):
everyone can afford it, but
there's lots of people that need
my help that would benefit from
my advice, but they can't afford
to pay my rate. Yeah, because
obviously I was like, exhausted,
and there was no way I could
keep going the rate I was going.
So it was like, right? Increase
the prices, reduce how many
clients I need to bring in and
improve the package in line with
the price increase, but I then
created a digital course, but it
(28:23):
took me seven months to create
my digital course, because I'm
not like you, and I wrote it
all, and I knew exactly what I
was going to do, but I had this
weird block about doing the
videos, and it took me, and it
was only the videos that took me
time. Everything was done, it
was ready, the graphics were
done, everything. I just
couldn't bring myself to record
the videos. But in that time, I
built such a waiting list for
this course that I'd been
talking about by the time I sold
(28:45):
it, and it was entirely my
fault. But as it turned out, it
worked out quite well because I
sold it and I had a huge waiting
list of people wanting it, and
then I relaunched a second
version of it last year, not
last year, the year before, and
it did very well again. And I
think that was, it's not for
sale anymore, taken off sale
because I don't do the LinkedIn
training anymore, but it's I did
(29:07):
the opposite, and it did work,
but I should have done it
sooner. I should have gone all
these one to ones are taking up
so much of my time. I'm
repeating myself so much. Make
it into videos. And you do that,
you put it all on YouTube. So
where did it go next? You had
these four people in your group,
and you had your one person that
you brought in. We
Chris James (29:26):
got a few more,
yeah, we got a few more clients
in slowly, and then it was Vicky
coming on board. Vicky Hanley,
so I met her. We DM she came to
a master class, then she hopped
on a sales call, and I just put
the price up, I think, to two
and a half grand. But because we
already had a bit of a
relationship and we liked each
(29:47):
other a little bit, I was like,
look, you'll be the last person
to sell this to a 2k and she
like, I mean, okay, cool. I
don't really liked her. And then
she went from 900 quid to a 5k
month because she committed to
the process. Massive
overthinker. I. Um, lacking in
in confidence. I've watched her
grow. She's, well, completely
different just from trust in the
(30:08):
process. And
Lea Turner (30:09):
she's so like the
content she creates on LinkedIn,
it stands out. She's funny,
she's she's thoughtful, she's
incredibly consistent. Her and
Katie, both of them, I was aware
of them years ago, like when
they first sort of started
working with you, because it,
you know, the algorithm tends to
show us lots of the same people
that we engage with. And I was
like, Oh, I like these two.
(30:30):
They're both funny. And I think,
I think before you were working
with them, I was seeing them on
my feed, and they've you just
watched the confidence grow of
you as a team, and of them
individually as well, and
watching their businesses
absolutely flourish. Yeah, which
is it's lovely to see. So what
happened next? So you've now got
an all female team, all female
(30:51):
to now got a Was there a reason
for that? Because you've just
you have gravitated to working
more with women on your team. Is
there a difference, but that
you've noticed between men and
women and why you find it easy,
or do you just like being bossed
around by women? I do get
Chris James (31:05):
bossed around
fucking how they rip me to
shreds, but I'm here for stuff
like that. Like, I've got quite
a dark sense of humor, so you
can anything, anything goes. But
I think the main reason it's not
in it's not been intentional,
like, I just hire based on
liking people and skill level,
and negligen people. Bit has to
come first. And I feel, and this
(31:26):
is very general, and I may
regret it or ask you to cut it
out, probably not. There's less
ego, and there's a higher work
ethic with women, particularly
mums, I would agree.
Lea Turner (31:40):
I'm not saying that
other people don't work hard,
but there's, there's a sense of
urgency and efficiency that you
have to have as a mum, because
you are much more limited with
the time you have available to
get things done.
Chris James (31:54):
Mums are fucking
superheroes, for the most part.
Yeah, they are. There's
exceptions to everyone, yeah,
for sure. So it's very like,
sweeping statement, but the
women that come into our program
as well, like, there are single
mums in there. Like, I won't
name names, but someone messaged
me yesterday. She did a 30 grand
month. Wow, that's life changing
already this month. And I don't
(32:15):
know what date is. I never know
Lea Turner (32:17):
that happens when
you become a mum. Certainly for
me, the motivation, the
priorities, everything just
changes. Because it's like it's
not just about me Surviving and
Thriving anymore, like there's
another human being that I'm
responsible for, and my success
literally determines their
future. And it just adds a whole
other dimension of of motivation
(32:39):
into you. It
Chris James (32:40):
can't be that
urgency piece, though, because I
think most people perform better
when they have a deadline in
front of them, or a limited
time, or constraints, whatever.
Again, that's something I say to
our clients, like, just put some
constraints in, even if they're
self imposed. You're trying to
get out and video and do your
course. I'm just like, I want to
see the first lesson by Monday,
and I'll help you with this.
Lea Turner (32:59):
So those companies
that that don't prioritize
hiring working mums. They're
like, No, you know, her comp,
her priorities would be
compromised. It actually flies
in the face of all of
motivations higher than ever.
They might have more sick days
because their kids are off sick,
but if they can work from home,
you know that they'll be doing
it with their sick baby on their
lap, or, you know, late at night
to make up the hours. It's It's
(33:20):
mad. And I think my in my
experience with the people that
I've worked with, I've
definitely, I definitely would
say that the people with the
kids, particularly mums, have
shown more, more grit and
determination and motivation,
because that's what business
needs, yeah, and it is, isn't
it? So okay, you wanted to,
(33:41):
let's because we don't want to
be this to go on for two hours.
Chris James (33:47):
Why did you talk
about streets? I think because
Lea Turner (33:49):
you run a community,
right? But your community wasn't
part it wasn't necessarily
intentional at the beginning.
Was it? You just had people that
went through the put everyone
Chris James (33:58):
in a Slack group
because I knew it would be
efficient and systemizable and
automatable, and, yeah, it's, I
think you, you could cultivate.
I've been in so many
communities. I don't know if
I've ever been in a really good
one. You've never been in mind,
though I've not. I will one day,
but I just know I won't be in
(34:19):
it. I just wouldn't be in it,
Lea Turner (34:21):
but I will not been
in it. But
Chris James (34:25):
I have never been
in a community where, let's say
that the head of it was actually
themselves and would level with
potential clients. And
therefore, when you don't get
that coming down from the top,
it kind of you can never connect
underneath it as well, I imagine
as a member. So that's one thing
that I and I imagine you do very
(34:47):
well, is just like, I'm just
myself. I'll take the piss out
myself. I'll take the piss out
of you. I'll call it straight,
I'll call you out on your
bullshit, and I'll introduce you
to people, and we'll try and
make it as fun as we can. Yeah,
I did. That's why I think the
community just evolved, because
it. Wasn't, like, trying to be
engineered, yeah, it was no
false engagement, or, like,
trying to get people to do
things.
Lea Turner (35:06):
It doesn't feel like
I'm Yeah, I am the founder of
that I remember as well. But I
am a member by choice because I
want to be in there. And there's
a lot of communities out there
where the person who starts the
community is just not there, and
they sort of leave members to
their own devices until it's
time for a call or it's so
they're there a bare minimum
that they think they can get
away with, whereas I actually,
(35:27):
genuinely enjoy being in the
community right multiple times a
day, and they're answering
questions, sending voice notes
in response to advice and like
questions people ask, tagging
people. When someone says, Oh,
do you know anyone who does
that? I tag people that are
relevant. I'm responding to DMS
in there. I'm scheduling events
and things in the what. That's
where
Chris James (35:47):
it's got to come
from. It's like just a position
of actually caring and giving a
shit.
Lea Turner (35:52):
I created the
community that I needed and
wanted so that I could use it. I
didn't create it to make loads
of extra money. I was like, I
need people around me. I need
education myself, and I've got
all these experts that will
present master classes that I
can learn from other people can
learn from, and we're all on
this journey together, and I
don't feel like I'm way ahead of
everybody else. I'm just a
facilitator and someone who's
(36:14):
there to encourage and kind of
glue things together. I know it
can't always be like that, and I
will have to eventually spend
less time in there, but not at
the moment. I love it. So do you
find that in in content to
clients as well, people hang
around because I've got people
that are in the hole, that are
still involved in C to C.
Chris James (36:33):
Yeah, we've we have
a between a 60 and a 70% renewal
rate. So our program's six
months long. More than half of
the people want to stay. And I
think they come for the info.
They come for the flashy
results. They experience the
mindset shifts and the start of
systemization, potentially the
start of really scale, or
starting to scale. We never
(36:54):
claim to scale businesses, but
certainly sustain systemize. And
then they're like, they stay for
the people and because it's
enjoyable.
Lea Turner (37:05):
Let me take you back
to that point where you were
handing your notice in at the
agency, because I know you loved
that job, so it wasn't like
maybe you weren't so enamored of
it by the end, because you were
excited by
Chris James (37:20):
your moderation
drifted, but yeah, I was working
with my friends. I basically
dictated my whole day work from
home whenever I want. Could go
and get pissed whenever I
wanted, with clients or with
team or with the MDS
Lea Turner (37:31):
salary. Yeah. So
it's scary. What would, what
would be the advice that that
that version of Chris needed
that would have made the last
three years, maybe less
mistakes, or it would have gone
a little bit smoother, like,
because there's people out there
that are hopefully listening to
us, who are thinking, you know,
(37:52):
I'm in a job, and I've got this
idea for a business, and I'm a
little bit scared, and, you
know, and then job pays well,
it's paying my mortgage, It's
looking after my family, what
would have helped you to avoid
maybe some of the the trips in
the road that you've had.
Chris James (38:07):
I can give all,
like, a few positives and stuff,
but I think it's more important
to go, like, just start with a
big disclaimer. Like, this shit
isn't for everyone. Yeah, this
is very, very hard. And I'm sure
you'd agree. And like, you have
got to have a certain, certain
level of resilience and grit, as
you mentioned. But if you think
(38:28):
you've had that, you've got
that, or been exposed to
situations like this before,
then absolutely do it, but make
sure you've got the financial
runway. That's the disclaimer.
You need to be able to cover
your ass for a bit, because you
will have rocky months for the
first 612, 36 I don't know,
yeah,
Lea Turner (38:44):
some people, even
beyond that. You know, we've had
people on the podcast that have
done incredibly well in their
first year or two, and then
they've gone, holy shit,
everything's falling apart.
Something like COVID happens, or
there's a bad year in
recruitment, and the recruitment
industry is decimated that you
just can't plan for the future.
So having that, that's the
Chris James (39:03):
first, like, I'm
always the negative frame first,
which I would call realism
rather than pessimism. But then,
like, the optimism and the
optimism is, it's amazing. Like,
this is my job. I'm sat here
with you. We've had a laugh out
there. We've got a brew. We're
gonna go and get pissed
afterwards, but now neither of
us are drinking, so maybe it's
not that fun. You might sway me
if you were to go on, but no,
(39:24):
like, this is great. This is
amazing. I'm gonna go back and
work on some like, build
something, which is what I love
doing. So it's really good. But
there's the painful bit, the dip
in the J curve that we kind of
talked about, and the advice I
think that you need there is,
well, if I was saying it to me,
it would be like, what's the
(39:46):
worst that can happen? Like,
what you go and get another job,
but you've already got a job,
Lea Turner (39:52):
and that's that's
true, right? Because so many
people are like, I'm going to,
I'm going to give up this job.
Have a go at my business. But.
If it all fails, it's it's not
the end of the world. The skills
that you have for the job that
you're in now you still have,
and if you try running a
business, you're going to have a
whole load of new skills. I
Chris James (40:11):
don't think there's
anything that grows you as a
person more than trying to run a
business. You grow I don't
Lea Turner (40:16):
know traveling as
well. I've never traveled.
Chris James (40:20):
I've traveled here
summer holiday that on atomic on
but, yeah, I think you learn so
many life skills when you're
building a business that you
will become more valuable if you
had to go back to employment
anyway. Plus, if you're trying
to go down the personal brand
route, you're just going to look
more attractive to potential
(40:41):
employers,
Lea Turner (40:42):
confidence goes up,
resistance goes up, yeah,
Chris James (40:45):
yeah, great. And
like, resilience, to throw those
words in again, yeah. And yeah,
it's, it's absolutely crazy.
Someone said to me, they were
like, it's, it's more of a risk
being employed for you, yeah,
because what if it's all taken
away, you may be made redundant.
We did have to make some people
redundant after COVID. Obviously
they're not gonna get rid of
sales.
Lea Turner (41:04):
We talked to loads
of people in season one that
that was literally what
happened. COVID happened
redundancy, where
Chris James (41:10):
they went? One
wasn't they? Michelle
Lea Turner (41:13):
Hartley wasn't made
redundant, but, but COVID made
her situation a lot more
unpalatable. Kate Hughes again,
so we there was a lot of people
that had that shove that they
needed to take that risk, to go
out on their own. Obviously,
hopefully we're not going to go
through a COVID lockdown ever
again or anything remotely
similar in our lifetimes. But it
(41:35):
shouldn't take a global disaster
to give you the nudge that you
need to take that risk, and
ultimately, and how I always
think about it is, what if I
don't take that risk, I'm going
to stay in the same job for God
knows how many years. I'm never
really going to even know what
my potential might be. Because
you've
Chris James (41:53):
scary. It's really
scary, you know, I've got to say
as well. Mine wasn't like a
fully 100% conscious, active,
whatever the word is, choice to
leave. I was pushed. I was
nudged because my brother in law
was killed, which happened in
the May when I was already
started. C to Z had already been
running for five months, but
that was obviously completely
(42:14):
unexpected. Rocked the family,
and night it happened, I just
went and got leathered at home
after I've been I've been at my
sisters all night. Got home
late, just got absolutely
hammered. And that was I
remember thinking, like, fucking
life is crazy. Like, this is
fucking mad. So I was like, I
need to do exactly. If he was,
(42:35):
like, healthy guy just on his
way to work. If that can happen
that fast. I was like, I need to
do I just need to live it. Stop
putting things off and just go
for it now. And like the net as
soon as I went back to work very
next week, or, I think, had a
couple of weeks off, obviously.
And then I just started planting
seeds. And I was my first
official C to C. First ever day
(42:56):
was first of July. It's,
Lea Turner (42:58):
it's funny, because
that's, and this is something I
was talking to our guest, James
about in in before we were on
the podcast. I now not saying I
was lucky. I lost my dad when I
was 10. That's not lucky, but it
gave me a perspective on life
and how preciously short it is,
because he was only 41 that's
only a year and a half older
than I am now, and I always had
(43:20):
in my head like, what if I don't
make it past that age? I need to
have done all of the things that
I want to have done by that age.
You know, I've had a kid, I've
been in love, I've traveled the
world, I've started a business,
I've helped loads of people. And
my dad died, and there was 300
flipping people, like at his
funeral, and I went. He was a
window cleaner. He earned no
money, but he was a happy,
smiley, friendly person. I want
(43:42):
to be able to make an impact.
And if I can get half as many
people that will miss me when
I'm gone, I've done good. But
having that perspective, that
shock of suddenly realizing that
life is super short, makes the
risks more worth taking, because
you don't feel like you know
people who, who just all they do
(44:02):
is save for their retirement.
Well, who says you're going to
live that long? Like, well, what
if you spend 20 years of your
working life working for
somebody else, filling your
pension, and then you're hit by
a car when you're 40? That's why
you
Chris James (44:15):
go work in sprints.
I think it's like, I like to go,
like, really head on and like, I
will work I'll work 12 out. I
love it. I find it very hard to
come away from it, but when I
do, I can and do you actually
relax? Yeah, Christmas was
amazing. Yeah, so good. I found
it so hard to get back into it.
Though I slept like crazy hours,
(44:36):
12 hours, and it's like, and
it's
Lea Turner (44:39):
the first year that
I've actually genuinely switched
off over Christmas, I think for
about two and a half weeks, I
was still obviously going into
the community, but we didn't do
any master classes or anything
in the community. It was just
the minimum stuff we we front
loaded. We did loads on the run
up to make sure that people
didn't feel short changed if we
stopped over Christmas. But no
one, everyone. We. Wanted
(45:00):
everyone to be encouraged to
have a rest, or go through them,
go through the library, of other
things that they had to catch up
on Christmas
Chris James (45:05):
morning, that you
must
Lea Turner (45:09):
abandon the roast
potatoes. You need to learn
this. But yeah, it was the, I
think, the first year in in five
years in business, in this area
of business, for me, that I've
actually gone, I'm taking time
off, and I'm going to not think
about work too much and properly
switched off. And
Chris James (45:26):
that's the thing as
well, you end up creating these
problems that, oh God, if I have
the time off, I'm really going
to struggle when, actually,
hello, but you come back and
like, either it sorted itself
out, someone else has sorted it,
or it didn't fucking matter in
the first place,
Lea Turner (45:41):
yeah. But yeah,
there was me thinking, oh, I
need to reply to emails. They're
going to be urgent. I'm
thinking, hold on a minute. This
person's office Christmas as
well. Yeah. Why am I rush?
Chris James (45:49):
Is like, yeah,
quite, quite universal. Oh,
Chris, thank
Lea Turner (45:53):
you so much for
coming on the podcast. It's, it
was a very long journey all the
way from Macclesfield. It
Chris James (45:59):
was, yeah, well, it
was 20 minutes on the train,
yeah.
Lea Turner (46:04):
Well, I appreciate
the effort. Supporting small
business owners is my biggest
passion, and that's what my
membership community The HoLT is
all about. Inside The HoLT are
more than 150 master classes
from experts in every business
skill you could ever want, and
we add more every single month.
There are also sales clinics,
tech clinics, well being,
(46:25):
support and advice and discounts
on a huge range of software and
services. But it's so much more
than just trainings and
resources. Everyone inside The
HoLT shares their years of
knowledge and experience
generously with kindness and
without judgment. They're super
active, the chat channels are
buzzing, and it's like having
600 business cheerleaders in
(46:46):
your pocket willing you to
succeed and helping you wherever
they can. And we offer all of
this and much more at an
extremely low price, because we
know that budgets are tight when
you're bootstrapping a business,
The HoLT is a kind, inclusive
and non judgmental place where
everyone knows that working
together is the fastest way to
succeed, and it makes it a whole
(47:08):
lot more fun. We would love for
you to join us. You can check
out the full details on the
halt.com or if communities
aren't really your vibe and you
just want access to the hundreds
of expert master class
recordings with a combined value
of more than 10,000 pounds. You
can access the vault right now
for just 20 pounds per month.
The Vault is all the master
(47:29):
classes with none of the chat or
distractions, just pure value.
Visit the-holt.com/vault to sign
up and start binging your way
through brilliant trainings from
leading experts, you.
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