October 28, 2024 • 45 mins
20% of businesses fail in their first year!
How do you avoid being one of them?
On this episode I am joined by the most zen business owner I know, Mia Denos.
With 20 years’ experience running her own businesses there is no-one better to advise small business owners on what it takes to succeed. Put simply having a pipeline of work will save a business.
You need to know where the money is coming from months in advance to avoid disappointment.
Mia also emphasises the importance of having a financial reserve and understanding the difference between working in a business and running a business.
Your skills alone are not enough to make a business thrive.
Get ready to get business zen with Mia!
“If you’re not worried about how to pay your rent or feed yourself, you’ll be able to think more rationally”– Mia
You’ll hear about:
00:00 – Always have a pipeline of work
01:01 - An introduction to Mia Denos
03:12 - Things small businesses should be doing
05:31 - The importance of a pipeline of work
07:57 - Mia's advice to ensure a pipeline of customers
13:28 - How many customers should you have?
17:58 - How to nurture client relationships
22:08 - How to get amazing testimonials
27:56 - Why is Mia so Zen with her business?
30:52 - Has not having employees been less stressful?
35:48 - The expectations of success on social media
37:12 - Advice to those about to go all in on their side hustle
Connect with Mia:
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/miadenos/
Lucror Financial Services - https://www.linkedin.com/company/lucror-financial-services/
Connect with me:
The HoLT - https://www.the-holt.com/
My website - https://leaturner.co.uk/
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/lea-turner/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/leaturnerholt
Join The Holt waiting list - https://www.the-holt.com/waitlist
This podcast is sponsored bySafe Space From The Workplace. You can check out their podcast here - https://shorturl.at/IASSn
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mia Denos (00:00):
If you can
make a success of self
employment or setting up
your small company, and
you've got a pipeline or
you've got a reserve,
then your zen, because
you can think, well, I've
got six months money in
the bank, or I've got 12
months money in the bank.
If you're not worried
about how you're going to
pay your rent or feed
(00:20):
yourself you make good
decision decisions,
you'll be able to think
far more rationally.
Lea Turner (00:38):
Mia, thank
you so much for coming on
the podcast. This is the
Holt Survival Guide for
small businesses, and one
of the reasons I've
invited you on this
podcast is because you've
been running small
businesses for 20 years.
Mia Denos (00:50):
I have. I'm an
old timer, not
Lea Turner (00:54):
old, but it's
very admirable, and it's
not something that we've
spoken to anybody who's
been running a business
for so long on this
podcast yet, so why don't
you tell us a little bit
about who you are and
what you do? Okay,
Mia Denos (01:06):
right? The two
businesses that I've got
that been going 20 years,
one is financial services
and deals very much on a
client basis, and another
one works in the
technology sector, deals
with artificial
intelligence and exciting
stuff like that. But
that's more business to
(01:27):
government or business to
big company type, yeah,
offering that that goes
to and does a lot of
research and development
in state of the art stuff
and patents and all stuff
like that. That's quite
exciting. And
Lea Turner (01:42):
20 years. So
what we was it that you
were doing before you
came to start your own
businesses?
Mia Denos (01:48):
I've always
been working in both
these sectors since
university, right? So my
degree is science based,
and that's where the
technology side started,
and my business partner
with who's also my life
partner in that business,
we met at university, and
(02:09):
we've been working in
that sector since
university. I'm
Lea Turner (02:13):
just baffled
by your level of
commitment, because that
terrifies me. I've never
committed to anything for
that incredible anything
or anyone,
Mia Denos (02:21):
things change.
You know, it's not the
same as it it sort of was
back then. And I also,
even while I was at
university, I wanted part
time work. And, I mean, I
was lucky when I went to
university, there were
still things grants, you
know, they none of this.
Yeah, it's a different
animal now. But I needed
(02:43):
part time work for part.
And I started with a with
a corporate in financial
services, because that's
what they were offering.
And I was at university
in London, so that sort
of fitted in quite well.
It's quite an expensive
place to be, and that
sort of thing. So that's
that's how I got into
both industries, and I've
stayed, and I love, love,
(03:03):
love, both of them, and
Lea Turner (03:04):
they're
different, yeah, so it
keeps your brain busy and
and you're constantly
challenged. And like you
say, with technology,
it's everything's
constantly moving. So I
think, personally, one of
the really interesting
insights that that you've
got is just how
businesses changed, and
so many businesses fail,
and I don't know the
stats, but it's something
like the first two to
(03:25):
five years is so crucial
for small businesses.
What is it that you
notice that maybe you've
done differently because
you've stayed the course
that you notice small
lots of small businesses
these days aren't maybe
doing you've got
Mia Denos (03:39):
to look at
just starting your
business in two respects.
There's the business as
in the work, and then
there's one in the
business. And they're
very, very different.
They're different skills.
Obviously, the business
aspect of any business is
whatever it is you're
doing. So if you're a
plumber, you've got to
know about heating and
(04:00):
plumbing and pipes and
all the rest of it. Yeah,
that's not the same as
running the business and
the marketing and
everything else. So a lot
of people, I think, have
a skill in something,
know about something, and
think, Well, I'll start a
business, and they
Lea Turner (04:13):
don't give
too much thought to all
of the and I'm guilty of
that I definitely didn't
think about, and I
certainly didn't allow
time for business
development and business
growth and business
innovation. When I first
my started my first
business, I was just
like, Oh, I'm good at
typing. I'll do typing,
but I spent so much time
typing and, you know,
(04:35):
placing a few ads here
and there, hoping to get
some clients that I
didn't really think about
anything else. And that's
why it never really got
anywhere until I started
using LinkedIn and and
found customers and went,
Oh, there's all these
other ideas, and I could
do other things do this,
but I didn't leave that
the time or the energy to
put into that. So I'd
100% agree. I think
there's a lot of people
(04:55):
out there that go, oh,
well, I'm really good at
this. I'll do this and
make money. I. But they
don't think about
Mia Denos (05:01):
and you're not
going to make money on
day one. Or, very rarely,
are you going to make
money on day one. So
before you launch into a
business, really, you
need some sort of backup
or backup plan to keep
yourself going for six
months. Or, however, is
that what you did?
Lea Turner (05:17):
Did you have
like money in the bank?
Because, just in case,
fund, as you started your
business. Yeah.
Mia Denos (05:23):
Well, in the
technology business, we
had a contract on day one
or day two, or that sort
of thing. So that was
slightly different. But
in financial services,
the way financial
services work is if you,
even if you get a client
on day one, you know that
(05:44):
it's going to probably be
three months, four months
before you get any
revenue from from that
client coming through,
just because of the
nature of the work. You
know, if I see somebody
tomorrow, it's probably
going to be for Christmas
before there's payment on
that so you need to have
some sort of cash reserve
to keep you going until
(06:05):
you can build up a
pipeline. Once you've got
the pipeline in financial
services, you probably
get about a third of that
pipeline dropping a month
between a quarter and a
third. So it's great in
terms of, I probably know
what my income stream up
till January is going to
be, is going to be, but I
know that the work now is
(06:25):
going to build into
February's, etc, but
you've got to get to that
stage of actually
building that pipeline.
And you know, if you've
let that pipeline drop
off because you're ill or
something like that,
you've got to build it
back up. So having a
reserve,
Lea Turner (06:38):
and that's a
classic mistake that I
see a lot of small
businesses making so
you'll see them,
especially when we're on
LinkedIn, and because,
obviously I spend a fair
amount of time on
LinkedIn, you'll see
people that are going
great guns for, say, four
months. They're being
really, really
consistent, posting
content, they're getting
clients, and then they
get busy, because they've
taken on all these new
clients. And they get
really, really busy for a
few months, and they stop
(06:59):
posting, and they stop
doing and what is not
just obviously LinkedIn,
but they stop marketing
themselves, because
they're so busy with
client work. And then a
contract will end, or a
client will lose a
client, and then you lose
them, and they're
suddenly panicking, and
they're like, Oh my God,
I've lost three clients
this month, and it's not
their fault, but they
haven't got a pipeline
because they've been too
(07:19):
busy doing client work
instead of marketing, you
think, but people don't
prioritize marketing like
they do. We all take time
to send our receipts to
our accountant and sign
our accounts off, and
we're we're managing our
emails, and we prioritize
things like that, but
then they don't think of
marketing. And I see that
mistake a lot, people
panicking, and then,
because they haven't been
consistent on their
socials, their engagement
(07:40):
has dropped, and then
they're not getting the
leads, and they go into
panic mode, and then they
start looking for jobs,
because they're convinced
that they're never going
to build it back up
again, and everything's a
disaster. And it's, it's
a shame that we see that,
but clearly that's not
something that you've had
a problem with. How have
you What have you done in
that and that 20 years?
(08:00):
What have you done in
your I guess, more your
financial services
business, because that's
probably more applicable
to the majority of
people. What have you
done to ensure that
you've continuously had a
pipeline of customers,
right?
Mia Denos (08:13):
Two very
simple things. First of
all, I limit the number
of new clients each
month, right?
Lea Turner (08:18):
So you don't
overwhelm yourself. No,
okay, no.
Mia Denos (08:22):
But secondly,
clients that I do have, I
know what is in the
pipeline. So say, for
example, you know,
somebody took out or did
a certain product three
years ago, and I know
that that's coming up for
renewal or review or
something like that, that
would be diarized in So,
right? You know, future
planning constantly?
(08:43):
Yeah, so I might take 10
new clients one month and
five the next month,
because you guys, I know
that 10 existing ones.
Lea Turner (08:50):
So you're
very organized with the
conversations and you
must be having with the
customers that you're
working with, and knowing
that they're going to be
there in six months time,
and that you've built a
really good relationship
with.
Mia Denos (09:02):
It's also
about touch points as
well, isn't it? So it's
yes, marketing is going
and get new clients, but
it's also retaining your
existing ones.
Lea Turner (09:10):
Well, that's
what I was going to ask.
So you've got clients
that you're forward
planning and you're
saying, Okay, well, this
product's coming up for
renewal in six months. Do
you take steps at like
four months to touch base
with them. Check out how
they are. Do you send
gifts? Do you meet up
with them? Impact like,
what do you do to nurture
those relationships, to
keep them so
Mia Denos (09:28):
things like
newsletters. Okay, I
don't do a sort of a busy
newsletter, like sort of
you do, but sort of just
general content that
might be interesting.
Yeah, that can go out
quarterly via email, that
sort of thing. So there's
always sort of a touch
point, a
Lea Turner (09:44):
reminder that
you exist, even if they
don't. I always say that
to people, like, even if
people don't open your
newsletter, the fact that
your name's appearing in
their inbox is reminding
them that you exist. It
would be better,
obviously, if they do
open it and read, yeah,
we like those people
best. But it's, it's, it
is, like you say, touch
points. That's a really
interesting. Yes, and
it's not hard, is it?
Let's be honest. Like
anyone could do a
quarterly newsletter, it
(10:05):
can be a big commitment
to do one every week or
even every month. Yeah.
So some quarterly is
manageable,
Mia Denos (10:11):
because if you
do things too often, you
just press Delete, don't
you as the if you don't
on my weekly one as a
recipient, yeah, of you
know, various, you know,
things that shops sell
out
Lea Turner (10:27):
can
immediately use. I get
one from Katie Skelton,
which is every day, and
I'm like the commitment
to send one every day,
but every single one has
something useful in it,
and I think, and it's fun
to read, and I think that
makes a big difference.
But I'm assuming with
financial services, maybe
it's not, it's not a
riveting read,
Mia Denos (10:45):
necessarily.
It's not a sort of a
joke, yes, in the joke
section,
Lea Turner (10:50):
but maybe a
message,
Mia Denos (10:55):
but yes, a
regular touch point, not
over committing on the
number of people that
you're going to see in a
month. Because as soon as
you do that, if I
suddenly next month to
see 40, have 40 new
clients. Yes, I could
possibly get them, but,
but will you will be able
to give them all a
quality service, a that
that's going to be a
problem. Yeah. And
(11:16):
secondly, what's going to
happen three months down
the line? I'm gonna end
up with no new people
coming in, because all
I've been doing is
rushing around to trying
to deal with those that's
Lea Turner (11:27):
something we
I think, that the vast
majority of small
businesses are guilty of.
And I definitely did
this. When I pivoted into
LinkedIn training, I 100%
did this. I was like, oh
my god, I can charge 99
pounds for an hour of my
time. I'll do six
trainings a day. Oh, my
God, this is amazing. And
then I was like, I am
shattered. I can't do six
hours of one to one
(11:48):
trainings in a day. I am
there's nothing left of
me. I'm a shell of a
human. And I had no
energy for creating
content or doing anything
other than that training.
And I went, Oh, this is
bad. And I very quickly
started realizing that I
was saying yes to clients
I didn't want to work
with clients whose I
(12:09):
didn't want to be in any
way responsible for
raising their voices,
which was, you know, part
of what I was helping
them to do. So you're not
my kind of people. And I
realized that I needed to
put prices up and be more
choosy. But I had to go
through the pain of
making that mistake to
learn that and actually
realize and I think this
(12:30):
is why we all have, like,
imposter syndrome when we
start our businesses and
we think, ah, if someone
says yes to working with
us, we just have to say,
yeah, like, taste right,
because it's never going
to last. This must be
luck. I'm I'm never going
to keep this up. And then
you start realizing, oh
no, actually, I am going
to keep getting clients.
So I can say no to some
(12:50):
clients, and that doesn't
mean I'm not going to
have more come through.
Again. That's one of
those things that you
learn as you go, that
you're not meant for
every client. And some
clients will do your head
in and you realize that
you need to say no. And
the more I said no, the
more confident I became
in saying no, because I
trusted that more clients
(13:12):
would still come. And in
my head, I was going, No,
if I say no to this
client, I will never get
another client. And it
wasn't like that at all.
And I imagine you must
have gone through
something similar at the
very start that's made
you go, ha, this is the
amount I can deal with
well and serve well. And
this is my like ideal
(13:32):
number to be, to be
onboarding or working
with at a time
Mia Denos (13:36):
it never
particularly through. But
I think that's the nature
of the way that the
pipeline payments drop,
yeah, because it's I'm
going to do, and if I'm
wrong, then I'll correct
it three months down the
line, right? If it, you
know, if the income dries
up because I'm not
getting the clients, then
I'll try and do something
different in three
months. But if you've got
(13:56):
a reserve, and then once
you've built up the
pipeline, you know,
really, what's going to
drop next month, a month
after? Well, that that's
it gives you more
breathing space, that
Lea Turner (14:07):
that reserve
then is a is a really,
really good point,
because I didn't have
that when I first started
with the LinkedIn
training because covid
had happened. And my
other business, the
clients just dried up
because they had no
clients to serve, so they
weren't making work for
me. So I didn't have
that, that six month lead
(14:28):
up to build up a reserve
and some savings to go,
Hey, I'm going to try
this new thing. It was a
very impulsive or people
are asking me for it, I'm
going to do it. And so I
didn't have that reserve.
And I think that's a
really point, actually,
yeah, it's not always
possible. There's lots of
people that you know,
suddenly they lose their
job and they're shoved
(14:49):
into the world of self
employment because
they're struggling in the
job market. And there's
not that option. But if
you have that option, to
build up a reserve so you
don't keep saying yes to
clients that. You don't
really want, and you keep
that space available for
the kind of clients you
know you're going to love
working with. That will
motivate you and light
you up inside, and make
you go, Oh, actually, I
(15:09):
love what I'm doing, and
I want to do more of it,
which that energy then
attracts more of those
good clients, right?
Sounds, woo, woo. But it,
but it really does, like
I find the more positive,
happy, passionate energy
that I'm putting into
what I do. I attract
clients that that love,
that I'm so enthusiastic
and excited by working
(15:29):
with them,
Mia Denos (15:30):
you've got to
love what you do, or at
least like it a lot,
because otherwise you
spend a lot of time doing
it. Yeah, and it's going
to show in what you're
doing, showing your
attitude. And then people
aren't going to come to
you, so you've got to. So
what
Lea Turner (15:45):
is it that
you do to to market
yourself, to keep your
pipeline filled? Like,
what? What avenues have
you taken in terms of,
like,
Mia Denos (15:53):
a lot of it's
mostly referrals,
referrals. So
Lea Turner (15:55):
that's come
from building a really
good reputation in your
industry and with your
existing clients, right.
That's impressive,
because I think that's,
again, something that we,
we probably don't talk
about enough into social
medias or get your
inbound leads, cold
DMing, cold emailing.
Everyone's telling you
about that, but I don't
actually see a lot of
(16:16):
people talking about the
power of the word of
mouth referral, because
my first business ran
entirely on word of mouth
referrals. Leah, you
Mia Denos (16:22):
do backdoor
Barry Yes? Well, yes, and
that's a referral
Lea Turner (16:27):
for anyone
that doesn't know. For
the membership community
that I run, there is a
there is a way in, if
you're not someone in the
community, you can ask
someone you know that is
in the community for
backdoor Barry access,
and he's kind of like our
security guard that will
personally invite people
by his market, by
(16:47):
referrals, which we just
love, like children,
because we called him
back door Barry, and we
are immature like that.
But I do use it, I and I
know how powerful it is,
because my transcription
business literally ran, I
think I ran a few free
Gumtree ads at the
beginning, and then
everything was word of
mouth, and it kept me
going for eight or nine
years. And so I'm very
(17:08):
aware of that, and I've
been really lucky with
LinkedIn training that I
get a lot of referrals
from companies and
individuals that say, Oh,
you need Leo. And it's
amazing, yeah, but people
don't talk about it as a
as a structured or
planned it's kind of
like, oh, it just
happens. But there are
ways that you can
incentivize referrals
(17:30):
with existing clients and
maintaining good
relationships with
clients, so that it's
your name they think of
when their friend says,
Do you know anyone who
does this? And you go,
Oh, yeah, actually, I do,
and it's that, and I
That's why I use social
media to stay front of
mind, because that helps
with with getting
referrals as well. Might
they know that I'm here
(17:50):
from LinkedIn, that's the
name that I'm I'm slowly
moving away from it, but,
but that is the name that
I've been given, and it
helps with the so is
there anything else that
you do apart from, let's
see, say, word math,
referrals. What else do
you do to kind of nurture
those relationships with
those clients? Or, or do
you not do anything? You
(18:10):
just are really bloody
good at what you
Mia Denos (18:13):
do. Yes, well,
I'd like to think I'm
really bloody good at
what I do. But referrals,
repeat business from
existing clients. Yeah,
because some clients
don't need you that
often, or it might be
once every five years,
but some, literally,
every other month. It's
something so repeat
business from existing
(18:34):
ones, which, if you've
been going 20 years,
you've got quite a few
and their kids and yeah,
no, I I can't think of
any client I've got,
actually, that I would
describe as shrinking
violet. To
Lea Turner (18:47):
be fair, I'm
not surprised that I
don't think you'd attract
that kind of so to the
point, aren't you?
Mia Denos (18:53):
Yeah. So I
think that probably helps
Lea Turner (18:56):
excuse me for
briefly interrupting our
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and we'd love for you to
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guests.
Mia Denos (20:01):
People do ask
Nat, I think naturally,
in anything you know, if
you know you do, if you
see a pair of shoes you
like, where do you get
those from? Or and it's
the same thing, you know,
all that's nice, that's a
piece of it all. Who you
know? Where did you buy
that from? Where did you
do that? Who did that
from you. How do you get
(20:21):
your sort of VA needs
met? Or, you know, so
people will ask for
referrals.
Lea Turner (20:28):
And people
are very willing. I find
people are very willing
to volunteer information
as well, because that is
stuff that happens in the
whole all the time.
Someone says, Oh, I'm
struggling doing this.
And someone else jumps
in. Says, Well, I can do
that. Or you need to
speak to this person that
does it. And I do it a
lot, you know, if I get a
client that says to me,
oh, I need this, this and
this, I'm like, well,
this person, this person,
(20:49):
this person, they won't
do you wrong. Like, this
is who I use, or I I've
worked with them myself,
and it's you capitalize
off the trust that
person's built. You do
brand. But
Mia Denos (21:01):
it also means
you can ask a question as
well, because, because
one of the issues I have
over things like
testimonials is very
often it's like that
person was great, or that
person was really nice,
and it doesn't
necessarily tell you what
you need to this is a
good example, if I was
looking to buy Something
from John Lewis, and I
(21:21):
looked at a review or
something, they often
write something like the
staff are very helpful.
Staff are helpful. Or
lovely kettle. It looks
great in my kitchen,
Lea Turner (21:31):
yeah, but
does it boil the water
efficiently? How long is
it going to last?
Mia Denos (21:35):
You know, just
because it's your kettle
in your kitchen, fine.
Very happy for you, but
it doesn't mean it's
going to be nice in mine.
And if you bought it two
years ago, if they put
bought this kettle two
years ago, still working,
well, use it four times a
day more weekends. I
think that's a great
kettle. So often, when
(21:56):
you look at testimonial,
or they're
Lea Turner (21:57):
not talking
about results, they're
not talking about
results. Yeah, it's more
Mia Denos (22:01):
of a touchy
feely emotional thing,
which doesn't necessarily
Lea Turner (22:06):
the kind of
person that you are, are
you not a touchy feely
kind of not in that? And
I think, like I as a
small business owner, I
I'm really lucky that
I've got a lot of really
positive testimonials
from people, and it's one
of the things that I try.
If I'm asking for a
testimonial from someone,
I will give them, like,
four prompts and say it
(22:26):
would be really helpful
to me if you could talk
about this, this, this
and this, because I know
I'm going to use it in my
marketing, and if I'm
able to use it in my
marketing, if you're
guiding them, that
person's going to also
get visibility for them
and their business. So
it's good. Testimonials
are super important,
whether they're written,
(22:46):
whether they're coming
from the right person,
and yeah, it's not just I
had a nice time with
them. It's much more like
working with them has
changed my business. And
here is how I have made
this much money. I have
saved this much time. I
have been able to get
home in time for the kids
stories and, like, we
want tangible outcomes
(23:08):
that you've received from
these people. I think
that's a, that's a, you
know, that's an
interesting one, because
they are really good for
marketing testimonials.
And so do you include
those in your like,
newsletters with other
people. You know you're
just, it's impressive how
you've you're very laid
back about your business
model, and you just seem
(23:28):
to have found your groove
with it. And you're just
very easygoing. I think,
I think across that way,
Mia Denos (23:35):
I think it
depends very much on what
sort of business you're
in. Leah, because
different things are
going to work in
different ways. You see,
the a lot of people with
business, they think,
who's my competition?
Who's my competition? Who
am I competing against?
Well, actually, I think
most people's competition
is actually to do
(23:56):
nothing. Because if I'm
always looking for a
LinkedIn trainer, right,
plenty of them. I could
look for a LinkedIn
trainer, or I could think
I'm all right, I won't
bother. And the actual
inertia of or getting
over the inertia to get
the training or to do
something is actually the
biggest issue. If
(24:17):
somebody's proactively
looking for something,
then fair enough, they're
going to look for a
LinkedIn trainer, but
somebody might be on
LinkedIn not getting the
results that they want,
and just think, well, it
doesn't really work. And
to say, Well, look, I do
LinkedIn training. This
is what you need. These
are the results you're
getting at you've got to
get over that point of,
well, I'll I'll do
(24:37):
nothing. And I think
that's a lot of people
don't quite get that,
that the the the biggest
obstacle to them getting
a client is that that
client always has the
option to do nothing, to
not buy a service. It's
not necessarily that
there are six other
trainers or podcast
(24:58):
directors or that sort of
thing. And it's the fact,
should I be bothered to
do a podcast? Is it going
to work? I won't bother
to do it. And that's the
default state. Now in
financial services, it's
it's less of an issue
because people have a
house, people have a
(25:19):
mortgage. It's something
that everybody needs.
They're going to do
something. They might not
do it with you, they
might do it with
somebody, but they're
going to do something and
with other businesses.
There is an option to do
nothing, whereas you've
got to live somewhere.
Yeah, my
Lea Turner (25:36):
mortgage is
going to come up for
renewal in two years
time. I am going to have
to take action on it. So
now my only choice is,
Who am I going to do the
action? You know? How am
I going to deal with
that? And the thing is,
and the same goes for
like lawyers, right? If
you have a legal problem,
the first person you ask,
do you know is, is your
closest friends and your
(25:56):
family? Do you know a
good lawyer that does
divorce? Do you know a
good mortgage broker?
First thing I did when I
chose my mortgage broker
was I asked my friend who
did his mortgage, and it
happened to be somebody
that I knew on LinkedIn
and that who was in the
area that I was going to,
and that was an easy
decision for me, and
thank God, because they
(26:17):
were an absolute dream.
Shout Out Sam, who got
me, my, my, uh, my dream
house, but I trusted
somebody that I already
knew, and asked for a
word of mouth, but you
were gonna buy the
Mia Denos (26:28):
house? I was
all, you were gonna buy a
house, yeah? Whereas the
Lea Turner (26:32):
decision to
buy the house had already
been made, it was just,
who's going to help me?
Because you've got
Mia Denos (26:37):
to live
somewhere, yeah? Whereas
with other businesses,
yeah?
Lea Turner (26:42):
Like coaches,
people can just choose to
manage on their own. Yes,
Mia Denos (26:45):
yeah. You
know, I don't need a
leadership coach. You
don't need with this
coach, I don't need a
what have you. So it's
the biggest obstacle, I
think, is the doing
nothing.
Lea Turner (26:54):
I mean, it's
luxury, isn't it? Like a
coach is a luxury? Yes,
we all can benefit from
mentoring coaching, you
know, LinkedIn training
and having a copywriter
to do things for us, we
can all benefit, but it
is a luxury. It's not
necessity. If you're
buying a house, a
mortgage is a necessity.
You
Mia Denos (27:12):
unless you
Well, unless you win the
lottery. Yeah, exactly.
So.
Lea Turner (27:16):
So, yeah, I
really get that. Really
get your point on that
one. What is it that you
see as someone who's you
are a seasoned pro in
this now, and you like, I
say, You do seem really
chilled about it. Just
runs like clockwork.
You've got it nailed, and
it's really seems to have
fed a lifestyle that
you're very comfortable
(27:37):
in. Like, I'm not saying
you don't work hard, but
you never seem to be
somebody who is
overwhelmingly stressed,
you seem to have built a
business that serves the
life that you want to
have and that you enjoy,
which is the point all of
us want to get to, right?
I'm not in it to be a
multi millionaire. I
don't want to just help
anybody. Just it doesn't.
And how do you is it just
(27:58):
the way you set up your
business? Is it? Because
you don't have employees,
is it? But how have you
got to that point where I
think if you are so zen,
Zen, you come across Zen,
if
Mia Denos (28:10):
you work for
when you work for
somebody, then the things
that are the stress in
that you lose some of the
stress because you're not
worried about where your
next client is or how
you're going to get paid.
But I've had jobs where
I've had to make people
redundant, and I know
(28:31):
that people who are
sitting in employed
positions might not be
employed in two months
time, and they probably
don't realize that, or
they don't see the
writing on the wall, or
they don't quite get the
vibes that the company's
in trouble, or there's
going to be a restructure
or something of that
order. So if you can make
(28:52):
a success of self
employment or setting up
your small company, and
you've got a pipeline, or
you've got a reserve,
then your zen, because
you can think, well, I've
got six months money in
the bank, or I've got 12
months money in the bank,
and somebody who is in an
employed position, they
might think that they're
(29:13):
fine, because it's great,
and they're working for a
fab company, but they
don't know that that
company's not going To
relocate to Wales, and
they're in wherever, and
Lea Turner (29:22):
that's it,
isn't it? And you will be
I remember watching, I
think I saw it on
Instagram, some sort of a
meme, and it said you're
working something along
the lines, I'm
paraphrasing, but you're
working your ass off for
a company that, if you
died tomorrow, they'd
have you replaced the
following day, and you're
and I was like, That's so
(29:44):
true, though, isn't it?
Like and it happened,
well, it's one of my
friends lost her
colleague, her colleague
with very sadly, passed
away. And it was very
sudden, and two weeks
later, there was someone
sat in her seat, and they
like, filled the
position. I was like, oh.
But it's the reality as a
company that's obviously
what you have to do.
There's no shame in them
(30:04):
doing that, but it makes
you realize that you are
so everybody in
employment is so
replaceable, and that's a
that's painful to realize
that you are. And I hated
it. I never wanted to
work for a big corporate
because I hated the idea
of me being a small cog
in a massive wheel or a
massive machine. I didn't
want to be insignificant,
(30:27):
and yet, so I worked with
small companies, and I
loved working with small
companies, and I felt
like I was part of a
team, and we were
building something, I was
and I was helping, and
now I'm building
something, and I don't
have employees very
similar to your model
I've chosen to work with.
I outsource to amazing
freelancers who are my
team and we they help me
(30:48):
grow my business. I help
them grow their business,
and I love that I'm doing
it that way. But do you
think that not having
employees for your
business has helped you
to maintain this more
calm
Mia Denos (31:06):
employee.
There's, there's pros and
cons, isn't there. But
one of the definite cons
is a you've got to keep
them occupied for 40
hours, or however many
hours a week, and if the
work is drying up, you've
still got to pay that
person, they contracted
pay, haven't you? So
that's, you know, that's,
that's a worry, isn't it,
for any small business.
(31:27):
But yes, you get all the
other HR aspects of
dealing with people on
top of just the work. And
that can be fine, but it
can be a headache. Yeah.
I think the other thing
that sort of helps with
the stress is that when
you are working for
yourself, you in charge
of your own diary. So
(31:47):
tomorrow, you could,
well, not necessarily
tomorrow, because you're
probably full, but you
could suddenly say, I'm
going shopping, or you
could do this, or you can
ask me to come on this
podcast, and I can say,
Yes, I can do that date.
And I don't have to go
and ask anybody and say,
Can I have that time off
and I'm going to take its
holiday, I'm going to do,
you know, there's none of
that sort of stuff,
because that's quite
(32:08):
stressful. That
Lea Turner (32:09):
took me a
while to realize, because
with with the typing
business, I was working
really, really long
hours, and then it was
all around like when my
son was at daycare and
things like that. When I
switched, and I was
filling up all of the
hours he was still at
school, or he was, she
was during the pandemic
at first, so I was still,
(32:29):
like, anytime he was
napping or distracted by
CBeebies or something, I
was like, right? I can
get some work done now.
And I was working every
hour I possibly could.
And it took me a while to
get to the point, and I
think actually only over
the last six months or so
that I've realized with
the Holt having this
recurring income now as a
membership community, I
(32:50):
know that I've got X
amount of money every
single month, and I can
go but actually I don't
need to take on extra
LinkedIn training, and I
don't need To book
corporate jobs and
speaking events I can
choose to and I can run
the whole I can be there
in the evening, as long
as I'm doing the
masterclass hosting and
I'm still communicating
(33:10):
with the community and
posting on the socials, I
can go in there at night
from my phone if I want
to. And yeah, it's
massively reduced my
stress that I can go on
holiday to Mexico for 10
days with my son and
actually go. I don't feel
like my business is going
to burn to the ground.
Yeah, because I'm not
there for 10 days, I
Mia Denos (33:27):
haven't had to
turn down this or, yeah,
I don't feel terrible
because I haven't posted
on LinkedIn, and that
reduces stress. Oh, it's
massively so it's that if
it doesn't happen
immediately, if it
doesn't happen
immediately, immediately,
and you sort of realize
the benefit, because the
other thing that's
happened to me, because
I've been going for 20
years, is you've got
(33:48):
technology coming in now
that just wasn't there 20
years ago.
Lea Turner (33:53):
I'm still a
bit behind on all of
that, because my brain
for technology is not
there. But what
Mia Denos (33:58):
even just
things like, you know,
you can put a calendar on
your or send that to
clients so that they can
book their own Oh, yeah,
manage that, yeah, all
that sort of thing. I
mean, that wasn't there
20 years ago, yeah,
Lea Turner (34:13):
oh my gosh. I
can't imagine having to
go around with a paper
diary. I would absolutely
lose it. So
Mia Denos (34:17):
there's just
lots of things now that
make life a lot easier,
reduce which just
weren't, just weren't
there.
Lea Turner (34:27):
I rely on my
Alexa. I've got an Alexa
in every room at home,
and I the reason I have
it is because it's synced
to my Google Calendar,
and 10 minutes before
every appointment, my
Alexa's shout out my
appointment, and it does
my son's head in, but I
will forget the amount of
times it said to me, you
know, you've got a zoom
call in 10 minutes. I'm
like, I didn't realize I
(34:48):
had one quickly, throw
some clothes on, grab a
coffee, go to the toilet,
sit down, because I've
completely forgotten
about it. So I'm
absolutely terrible. So,
Mia, 20 years in
businesses is
spectacular, and. That
you're running both your
businesses and it's
serving your lifestyle.
And I think you are, you
are literally setting the
standard that I want to
get to. And I feel like
I'm actually not far away
(35:08):
from feeling quite
chilled. I'm very still
excited and passionate
about moving the
businesses forward, but I
am starting to get to
that point now. And I
think what I'm nearly
year five of running the
businesses, year four of
running the businesses,
second year of the whole
but I think that combined
experience is getting me
to that point where I'm
ready to start going
(35:30):
actually. I don't have to
have my foot on the pedal
all of the time. And I
can go at my own pace and
not be led by everybody
else going. You can do
this, you can do that.
You can go faster. Oh, my
God, because everything
went so fast to start
with for me. And I'm
like,
Mia Denos (35:44):
oh, cupcakes,
you can do well. I felt
it
Lea Turner (35:47):
too, and it's
and it's an age thing as
well. I was like, all
these people are
achieving this much by
40. And I'm like, who
cares? I'm on my own
timeline. I don't have to
follow other people. I
Mia Denos (35:58):
always have to
question, are they? I
mean, you see people on
LinkedIn, you Yeah, and
10,000 pounds doing this
and, and you
Lea Turner (36:05):
just started
that rush at the
beginning, because it's
infected everybody,
right?
Mia Denos (36:10):
And you just
think, no, it is okay to,
like, I see them and
accounts of people, and
think, no, that's, yeah.
What
Lea Turner (36:18):
you say
online isn't quite what
you Yeah, it's,
Mia Denos (36:20):
it's not, it
doesn't stack. Yeah,
well, I
Lea Turner (36:23):
mean, I'm
well aware, because I've
got members of my team
that work with
entrepreneurs that are
very visible on LinkedIn
who claim to be making
six and seven figures.
They can't even afford to
pay their VAs full bill.
And they're, you know,
got payment plans for
their invoices to their
VAs that they haven't
paid anything. So
something doesn't quite
marry up. Yeah, there's,
(36:44):
there's a lot of that
about but I definitely
feel like there is an
expectation of people,
especially on social
media, to do everything
super, super quick. And
actually you are a really
shining example of
someone who has stayed
the course, made your own
pace, chosen how you want
to or if you want to grow
to suit your lifestyle,
(37:04):
and you seem very relaxed
in it, and I really
admire that. So to sum
up, is there one piece of
advice, and think about
like, let's talk about a
30 year old entrepreneur,
and they're maybe six
months into running a
side hustle, and they're
about to, they're
(37:25):
thinking about getting
ready to jump ship and go
all in on this thing that
they're passionate about.
What would you what would
you say to them that they
would be able to take
forward, to really, like,
internalize, and help
them to make what they're
going to do a success?
Mia Denos (37:40):
I think if you
have the ability to get a
reserve in some way,
shape or form, yeah, do
so, and that might be,
you don't go on holiday.
Think of it as if you
know, if you're saving
for a deposit for a
house, yeah, it's that
sort of mindset of, you
don't go on holiday. You
make this sacrifice. But
builders, because that
(38:02):
will if you're not
worried about how you're
going to pay your rent or
feed yourself, make good
decision decisions,
you'll be able to think
far more rationally. Try
and park emotion. And
that doesn't mean don't
get passionate about
something. It's people
tending to take things so
personally in business,
(38:22):
you know that client is
canceled because they
don't like me well, you
know, perhaps they
weren't suited to you.
You know, learn from it.
What was it that they
said differently or what?
And perhaps they're not
recognizing your
boundaries. Perhaps
they're not doing, you
know, what could you do
to perhaps improve it,
but I think your skill
(38:42):
and your business know
that, but then make sure
that you're consistent in
what you do to run your
business and to get the
professionals on board
that you need to and to
take the help that is out
there. There is ask for
help as well to ask for
help and to Google is
(39:03):
probably your best friend
in life. I find
generally, but it's, you
know, there's a lot of
government support out
there that people don't,
yeah, maximize Yeah. And
it's not necessarily the
government will give you
so many 1000 pounds, not
necessarily that support,
but things that you can
get this sort of meet the
(39:23):
expert program that they
do. And there are things
like IP lawyers, there
are marketing experts.
There's all kinds of
where you
Lea Turner (39:29):
Barclays have
an amazing actual we went
to a co working space.
They have an amazing
incentive, Barclays Eagle
labs, and it's free for
entrepreneurs of any age
and anywhere in the
country, and they have
places that they can go,
for co working for free,
and a massive mentorship
program that have VCs and
(39:49):
very successful people
offering free mentoring
to newer business owners.
And I don't think there's
enough advertising around
what's available. People
don't know where to look.
Yeah, and that that's
definitely worth like for
everybody, but that's
Mia Denos (40:03):
where Google
really helped, because it
will. I mean, Google did
Google garage, I don't
think they still do, but
they had set up. I mean,
it was before covid, but
they had setups where
Google paid for support
on how to use. Well, they
did a whole thing about
digital marketing, so it
(40:23):
was sort of SEO and all
the sorts of stuff, plus
they had a now has
experts. So they go to an
area, came to Newcastle,
came to Sunderland, and
they were in Newcastle
library for about three
months. I think so. They
used downstairs space,
which was probably given
by the council, I don't
know, but they paid for
local people who knew
about SEO and digital
marketers to work there,
(40:44):
so you could go and book
a slot, but they did
training courses. They do
online courses. There was
a whole program that
Google did, and that
there is quite a lot of
support out there that
businesses should be
taking advantage. I mean,
even HMRC, as much as we
don't you know
necessarily, like the
taxman, they do have all
(41:06):
their processes. There's
online webinars, and some
of them are live, some of
them are pre recorded, so
you can find out about
stuff and it is out
there. And I would
encourage anybody who's
thinking about setting up
a business to actually
look at the free stuff,
not just go and get a
business coach. I'm not
saying business coaches
are bad, but
Lea Turner (41:26):
there's a
lot, there are big
financial commitments
you're paying early on
where there's a
Mia Denos (41:31):
lot of free
stuff available that will
certainly help you very
well in the early years.
Lea Turner (41:35):
Yeah, I think
you need to be a
personally in my
experience, hiring a
business coach, straight
off the bat, is would be
too early. You need to
know a bit about you and
your business after it's
been going a while before
you can select the right
kind of business coach
for you, for what you
know you need, because
they all are going to be
very, very different.
Mia Denos (41:56):
I think the
other top tip Leah just
is look at who your
competitors or who in the
industries, similar sized
company or similar sized
business to you and what
you're looking to do, and
see what they are
offering. Don't reinvent
the wheel. See what
they're doing, because
they might have spent
hours designing some sort
of service. I don't mean
just copy them. I mean if
(42:18):
what they're doing seems
to be quite successful,
and they're doing it a
certain way that gives
you probably two or three
rungs up the ladder.
Yeah, it's
Lea Turner (42:26):
precedent,
isn't it? Like this? This
is something that I want
to do, and it works.
There is a market for it,
so I can do it as well as
them. Make sure you're
doing it as well as them,
but don't. Yeah, we're
not advocating copying.
But if you can see
someone who does what you
want to do and does it to
a similar scale, and that
it's successful, you
know, it's possible, you
Mia Denos (42:47):
know, how are
they going about doing
it? They're relying a lot
on technology to do that.
Well, okay, perhaps I
need to, you know what
else is out there, and
Lea Turner (42:54):
if there's
questions ask, and that's
something that I think
would surprise most
people, and I've always
been very open about it,
people say to me, how
have you done this? I
will either charge them
some money for some
consultancy and literally
tell them everything, and
if they want to use what
I did, that's fine, and I
literally do that for my
community, or I'm talking
(43:16):
about it openly in the
content that I put out
and the conversations,
the podcasts that I do,
and I will share what I
know, because actually,
so many, so many business
owners, we assume
everyone's going to be
cagey with how they've
done that. They don't
want other people to do
it the same. But
actually, if you, if
you're honest with them,
and say, Hey, I'm
starting something like
this, I'd love to have a
conversation. I'm happy
(43:37):
to pay for your time, but
I'd like to know the
mistakes that you've made
so I can avoid them, or
I'd like to understand
more about the model and
how it works. And it's it
will surprise you. And
the worst they can say is
no, and you know, you
probably
Mia Denos (43:50):
got, well, you
can't train everybody in
the country, can you? No,
you can't, you know,
helping
Lea Turner (43:54):
make your
whole industry better if
you're making sure that
people that are coming
through are delivering
quality service as well.
Yeah, Mia, thank you so
much for being on the
podcast. Thank you for
it's been an absolute
pleasure to get to have a
really good chat with
you, and hasn't he? He's
literally a model dog. I
think you need to do
coaching sessions on how
to be good dog, a good
boy.
Mia Denos (44:14):
Talk about
Zen.
Lea Turner (44:17):
Thank you so
much, Mia.
Mia Denos (44:18):
Thank you.
Before you go, I
Lea Turner (44:20):
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If you can
make a success of self
employment or setting up
your small company, and
you've got a pipeline or
you've got a reserve,
then your zen, because
you can think, well, I've
got six months money in
the bank, or I've got 12
months money in the bank.
If you're not worried
about how you're going to
pay your rent or feed
(00:20):
yourself you make good
decision decisions,
you'll be able to think
far more rationally.
Lea Turner (00:38):
Mia, thank
you so much for coming on
the podcast. This is the
Holt Survival Guide for
small businesses, and one
of the reasons I've
invited you on this
podcast is because you've
been running small
businesses for 20 years.
Mia Denos (00:50):
I have. I'm an
old timer, not
Lea Turner (00:54):
old, but it's
very admirable, and it's
not something that we've
spoken to anybody who's
been running a business
for so long on this
podcast yet, so why don't
you tell us a little bit
about who you are and
what you do? Okay,
Mia Denos (01:06):
right? The two
businesses that I've got
that been going 20 years,
one is financial services
and deals very much on a
client basis, and another
one works in the
technology sector, deals
with artificial
intelligence and exciting
stuff like that. But
that's more business to
(01:27):
government or business to
big company type, yeah,
offering that that goes
to and does a lot of
research and development
in state of the art stuff
and patents and all stuff
like that. That's quite
exciting. And
Lea Turner (01:42):
20 years. So
what we was it that you
were doing before you
came to start your own
businesses?
Mia Denos (01:48):
I've always
been working in both
these sectors since
university, right? So my
degree is science based,
and that's where the
technology side started,
and my business partner
with who's also my life
partner in that business,
we met at university, and
(02:09):
we've been working in
that sector since
university. I'm
Lea Turner (02:13):
just baffled
by your level of
commitment, because that
terrifies me. I've never
committed to anything for
that incredible anything
or anyone,
Mia Denos (02:21):
things change.
You know, it's not the
same as it it sort of was
back then. And I also,
even while I was at
university, I wanted part
time work. And, I mean, I
was lucky when I went to
university, there were
still things grants, you
know, they none of this.
Yeah, it's a different
animal now. But I needed
(02:43):
part time work for part.
And I started with a with
a corporate in financial
services, because that's
what they were offering.
And I was at university
in London, so that sort
of fitted in quite well.
It's quite an expensive
place to be, and that
sort of thing. So that's
that's how I got into
both industries, and I've
stayed, and I love, love,
(03:03):
love, both of them, and
Lea Turner (03:04):
they're
different, yeah, so it
keeps your brain busy and
and you're constantly
challenged. And like you
say, with technology,
it's everything's
constantly moving. So I
think, personally, one of
the really interesting
insights that that you've
got is just how
businesses changed, and
so many businesses fail,
and I don't know the
stats, but it's something
like the first two to
(03:25):
five years is so crucial
for small businesses.
What is it that you
notice that maybe you've
done differently because
you've stayed the course
that you notice small
lots of small businesses
these days aren't maybe
doing you've got
Mia Denos (03:39):
to look at
just starting your
business in two respects.
There's the business as
in the work, and then
there's one in the
business. And they're
very, very different.
They're different skills.
Obviously, the business
aspect of any business is
whatever it is you're
doing. So if you're a
plumber, you've got to
know about heating and
(04:00):
plumbing and pipes and
all the rest of it. Yeah,
that's not the same as
running the business and
the marketing and
everything else. So a lot
of people, I think, have
a skill in something,
know about something, and
think, Well, I'll start a
business, and they
Lea Turner (04:13):
don't give
too much thought to all
of the and I'm guilty of
that I definitely didn't
think about, and I
certainly didn't allow
time for business
development and business
growth and business
innovation. When I first
my started my first
business, I was just
like, Oh, I'm good at
typing. I'll do typing,
but I spent so much time
typing and, you know,
(04:35):
placing a few ads here
and there, hoping to get
some clients that I
didn't really think about
anything else. And that's
why it never really got
anywhere until I started
using LinkedIn and and
found customers and went,
Oh, there's all these
other ideas, and I could
do other things do this,
but I didn't leave that
the time or the energy to
put into that. So I'd
100% agree. I think
there's a lot of people
(04:55):
out there that go, oh,
well, I'm really good at
this. I'll do this and
make money. I. But they
don't think about
Mia Denos (05:01):
and you're not
going to make money on
day one. Or, very rarely,
are you going to make
money on day one. So
before you launch into a
business, really, you
need some sort of backup
or backup plan to keep
yourself going for six
months. Or, however, is
that what you did?
Lea Turner (05:17):
Did you have
like money in the bank?
Because, just in case,
fund, as you started your
business. Yeah.
Mia Denos (05:23):
Well, in the
technology business, we
had a contract on day one
or day two, or that sort
of thing. So that was
slightly different. But
in financial services,
the way financial
services work is if you,
even if you get a client
on day one, you know that
(05:44):
it's going to probably be
three months, four months
before you get any
revenue from from that
client coming through,
just because of the
nature of the work. You
know, if I see somebody
tomorrow, it's probably
going to be for Christmas
before there's payment on
that so you need to have
some sort of cash reserve
to keep you going until
(06:05):
you can build up a
pipeline. Once you've got
the pipeline in financial
services, you probably
get about a third of that
pipeline dropping a month
between a quarter and a
third. So it's great in
terms of, I probably know
what my income stream up
till January is going to
be, is going to be, but I
know that the work now is
(06:25):
going to build into
February's, etc, but
you've got to get to that
stage of actually
building that pipeline.
And you know, if you've
let that pipeline drop
off because you're ill or
something like that,
you've got to build it
back up. So having a
reserve,
Lea Turner (06:38):
and that's a
classic mistake that I
see a lot of small
businesses making so
you'll see them,
especially when we're on
LinkedIn, and because,
obviously I spend a fair
amount of time on
LinkedIn, you'll see
people that are going
great guns for, say, four
months. They're being
really, really
consistent, posting
content, they're getting
clients, and then they
get busy, because they've
taken on all these new
clients. And they get
really, really busy for a
few months, and they stop
(06:59):
posting, and they stop
doing and what is not
just obviously LinkedIn,
but they stop marketing
themselves, because
they're so busy with
client work. And then a
contract will end, or a
client will lose a
client, and then you lose
them, and they're
suddenly panicking, and
they're like, Oh my God,
I've lost three clients
this month, and it's not
their fault, but they
haven't got a pipeline
because they've been too
(07:19):
busy doing client work
instead of marketing, you
think, but people don't
prioritize marketing like
they do. We all take time
to send our receipts to
our accountant and sign
our accounts off, and
we're we're managing our
emails, and we prioritize
things like that, but
then they don't think of
marketing. And I see that
mistake a lot, people
panicking, and then,
because they haven't been
consistent on their
socials, their engagement
(07:40):
has dropped, and then
they're not getting the
leads, and they go into
panic mode, and then they
start looking for jobs,
because they're convinced
that they're never going
to build it back up
again, and everything's a
disaster. And it's, it's
a shame that we see that,
but clearly that's not
something that you've had
a problem with. How have
you What have you done in
that and that 20 years?
(08:00):
What have you done in
your I guess, more your
financial services
business, because that's
probably more applicable
to the majority of
people. What have you
done to ensure that
you've continuously had a
pipeline of customers,
right?
Mia Denos (08:13):
Two very
simple things. First of
all, I limit the number
of new clients each
month, right?
Lea Turner (08:18):
So you don't
overwhelm yourself. No,
okay, no.
Mia Denos (08:22):
But secondly,
clients that I do have, I
know what is in the
pipeline. So say, for
example, you know,
somebody took out or did
a certain product three
years ago, and I know
that that's coming up for
renewal or review or
something like that, that
would be diarized in So,
right? You know, future
planning constantly?
(08:43):
Yeah, so I might take 10
new clients one month and
five the next month,
because you guys, I know
that 10 existing ones.
Lea Turner (08:50):
So you're
very organized with the
conversations and you
must be having with the
customers that you're
working with, and knowing
that they're going to be
there in six months time,
and that you've built a
really good relationship
with.
Mia Denos (09:02):
It's also
about touch points as
well, isn't it? So it's
yes, marketing is going
and get new clients, but
it's also retaining your
existing ones.
Lea Turner (09:10):
Well, that's
what I was going to ask.
So you've got clients
that you're forward
planning and you're
saying, Okay, well, this
product's coming up for
renewal in six months. Do
you take steps at like
four months to touch base
with them. Check out how
they are. Do you send
gifts? Do you meet up
with them? Impact like,
what do you do to nurture
those relationships, to
keep them so
Mia Denos (09:28):
things like
newsletters. Okay, I
don't do a sort of a busy
newsletter, like sort of
you do, but sort of just
general content that
might be interesting.
Yeah, that can go out
quarterly via email, that
sort of thing. So there's
always sort of a touch
point, a
Lea Turner (09:44):
reminder that
you exist, even if they
don't. I always say that
to people, like, even if
people don't open your
newsletter, the fact that
your name's appearing in
their inbox is reminding
them that you exist. It
would be better,
obviously, if they do
open it and read, yeah,
we like those people
best. But it's, it's, it
is, like you say, touch
points. That's a really
interesting. Yes, and
it's not hard, is it?
Let's be honest. Like
anyone could do a
quarterly newsletter, it
(10:05):
can be a big commitment
to do one every week or
even every month. Yeah.
So some quarterly is
manageable,
Mia Denos (10:11):
because if you
do things too often, you
just press Delete, don't
you as the if you don't
on my weekly one as a
recipient, yeah, of you
know, various, you know,
things that shops sell
out
Lea Turner (10:27):
can
immediately use. I get
one from Katie Skelton,
which is every day, and
I'm like the commitment
to send one every day,
but every single one has
something useful in it,
and I think, and it's fun
to read, and I think that
makes a big difference.
But I'm assuming with
financial services, maybe
it's not, it's not a
riveting read,
Mia Denos (10:45):
necessarily.
It's not a sort of a
joke, yes, in the joke
section,
Lea Turner (10:50):
but maybe a
message,
Mia Denos (10:55):
but yes, a
regular touch point, not
over committing on the
number of people that
you're going to see in a
month. Because as soon as
you do that, if I
suddenly next month to
see 40, have 40 new
clients. Yes, I could
possibly get them, but,
but will you will be able
to give them all a
quality service, a that
that's going to be a
problem. Yeah. And
(11:16):
secondly, what's going to
happen three months down
the line? I'm gonna end
up with no new people
coming in, because all
I've been doing is
rushing around to trying
to deal with those that's
Lea Turner (11:27):
something we
I think, that the vast
majority of small
businesses are guilty of.
And I definitely did
this. When I pivoted into
LinkedIn training, I 100%
did this. I was like, oh
my god, I can charge 99
pounds for an hour of my
time. I'll do six
trainings a day. Oh, my
God, this is amazing. And
then I was like, I am
shattered. I can't do six
hours of one to one
(11:48):
trainings in a day. I am
there's nothing left of
me. I'm a shell of a
human. And I had no
energy for creating
content or doing anything
other than that training.
And I went, Oh, this is
bad. And I very quickly
started realizing that I
was saying yes to clients
I didn't want to work
with clients whose I
(12:09):
didn't want to be in any
way responsible for
raising their voices,
which was, you know, part
of what I was helping
them to do. So you're not
my kind of people. And I
realized that I needed to
put prices up and be more
choosy. But I had to go
through the pain of
making that mistake to
learn that and actually
realize and I think this
(12:30):
is why we all have, like,
imposter syndrome when we
start our businesses and
we think, ah, if someone
says yes to working with
us, we just have to say,
yeah, like, taste right,
because it's never going
to last. This must be
luck. I'm I'm never going
to keep this up. And then
you start realizing, oh
no, actually, I am going
to keep getting clients.
So I can say no to some
(12:50):
clients, and that doesn't
mean I'm not going to
have more come through.
Again. That's one of
those things that you
learn as you go, that
you're not meant for
every client. And some
clients will do your head
in and you realize that
you need to say no. And
the more I said no, the
more confident I became
in saying no, because I
trusted that more clients
(13:12):
would still come. And in
my head, I was going, No,
if I say no to this
client, I will never get
another client. And it
wasn't like that at all.
And I imagine you must
have gone through
something similar at the
very start that's made
you go, ha, this is the
amount I can deal with
well and serve well. And
this is my like ideal
(13:32):
number to be, to be
onboarding or working
with at a time
Mia Denos (13:36):
it never
particularly through. But
I think that's the nature
of the way that the
pipeline payments drop,
yeah, because it's I'm
going to do, and if I'm
wrong, then I'll correct
it three months down the
line, right? If it, you
know, if the income dries
up because I'm not
getting the clients, then
I'll try and do something
different in three
months. But if you've got
(13:56):
a reserve, and then once
you've built up the
pipeline, you know,
really, what's going to
drop next month, a month
after? Well, that that's
it gives you more
breathing space, that
Lea Turner (14:07):
that reserve
then is a is a really,
really good point,
because I didn't have
that when I first started
with the LinkedIn
training because covid
had happened. And my
other business, the
clients just dried up
because they had no
clients to serve, so they
weren't making work for
me. So I didn't have
that, that six month lead
(14:28):
up to build up a reserve
and some savings to go,
Hey, I'm going to try
this new thing. It was a
very impulsive or people
are asking me for it, I'm
going to do it. And so I
didn't have that reserve.
And I think that's a
really point, actually,
yeah, it's not always
possible. There's lots of
people that you know,
suddenly they lose their
job and they're shoved
(14:49):
into the world of self
employment because
they're struggling in the
job market. And there's
not that option. But if
you have that option, to
build up a reserve so you
don't keep saying yes to
clients that. You don't
really want, and you keep
that space available for
the kind of clients you
know you're going to love
working with. That will
motivate you and light
you up inside, and make
you go, Oh, actually, I
(15:09):
love what I'm doing, and
I want to do more of it,
which that energy then
attracts more of those
good clients, right?
Sounds, woo, woo. But it,
but it really does, like
I find the more positive,
happy, passionate energy
that I'm putting into
what I do. I attract
clients that that love,
that I'm so enthusiastic
and excited by working
(15:29):
with them,
Mia Denos (15:30):
you've got to
love what you do, or at
least like it a lot,
because otherwise you
spend a lot of time doing
it. Yeah, and it's going
to show in what you're
doing, showing your
attitude. And then people
aren't going to come to
you, so you've got to. So
what
Lea Turner (15:45):
is it that
you do to to market
yourself, to keep your
pipeline filled? Like,
what? What avenues have
you taken in terms of,
like,
Mia Denos (15:53):
a lot of it's
mostly referrals,
referrals. So
Lea Turner (15:55):
that's come
from building a really
good reputation in your
industry and with your
existing clients, right.
That's impressive,
because I think that's,
again, something that we,
we probably don't talk
about enough into social
medias or get your
inbound leads, cold
DMing, cold emailing.
Everyone's telling you
about that, but I don't
actually see a lot of
(16:16):
people talking about the
power of the word of
mouth referral, because
my first business ran
entirely on word of mouth
referrals. Leah, you
Mia Denos (16:22):
do backdoor
Barry Yes? Well, yes, and
that's a referral
Lea Turner (16:27):
for anyone
that doesn't know. For
the membership community
that I run, there is a
there is a way in, if
you're not someone in the
community, you can ask
someone you know that is
in the community for
backdoor Barry access,
and he's kind of like our
security guard that will
personally invite people
by his market, by
(16:47):
referrals, which we just
love, like children,
because we called him
back door Barry, and we
are immature like that.
But I do use it, I and I
know how powerful it is,
because my transcription
business literally ran, I
think I ran a few free
Gumtree ads at the
beginning, and then
everything was word of
mouth, and it kept me
going for eight or nine
years. And so I'm very
(17:08):
aware of that, and I've
been really lucky with
LinkedIn training that I
get a lot of referrals
from companies and
individuals that say, Oh,
you need Leo. And it's
amazing, yeah, but people
don't talk about it as a
as a structured or
planned it's kind of
like, oh, it just
happens. But there are
ways that you can
incentivize referrals
(17:30):
with existing clients and
maintaining good
relationships with
clients, so that it's
your name they think of
when their friend says,
Do you know anyone who
does this? And you go,
Oh, yeah, actually, I do,
and it's that, and I
That's why I use social
media to stay front of
mind, because that helps
with with getting
referrals as well. Might
they know that I'm here
(17:50):
from LinkedIn, that's the
name that I'm I'm slowly
moving away from it, but,
but that is the name that
I've been given, and it
helps with the so is
there anything else that
you do apart from, let's
see, say, word math,
referrals. What else do
you do to kind of nurture
those relationships with
those clients? Or, or do
you not do anything? You
(18:10):
just are really bloody
good at what you
Mia Denos (18:13):
do. Yes, well,
I'd like to think I'm
really bloody good at
what I do. But referrals,
repeat business from
existing clients. Yeah,
because some clients
don't need you that
often, or it might be
once every five years,
but some, literally,
every other month. It's
something so repeat
business from existing
(18:34):
ones, which, if you've
been going 20 years,
you've got quite a few
and their kids and yeah,
no, I I can't think of
any client I've got,
actually, that I would
describe as shrinking
violet. To
Lea Turner (18:47):
be fair, I'm
not surprised that I
don't think you'd attract
that kind of so to the
point, aren't you?
Mia Denos (18:53):
Yeah. So I
think that probably helps
Lea Turner (18:56):
excuse me for
briefly interrupting our
guest. But I need to tell
you about my business,
baby, the Holt. I started
the Holt in June 2022 to
create a supportive place
where small business
owners, solopreneurs,
freelancers and side
hustlers could learn
essential business skills
at an affordable price
while coming together to
network and support each
other and our businesses.
Every month, members get
(19:17):
live Q and A's and
problem solving on tech,
sales and marketing, plus
four or more master
classes on skills such as
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branding, mindset,
confidence, resilience,
graphic design,
automation, AI and so
much more. We also host
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Content creation, hours
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(19:37):
we do, we encourage
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Holt is where the square
pegs of the business
world fit perfectly. So
if you've never felt like
you quite belong in
business, we're the
community for you. Visit
the holt.com for more
information and to get on
the waiting list. Now,
we're opening again soon,
(19:58):
and we'd love for you to
join us now. Back to our
guests.
Mia Denos (20:01):
People do ask
Nat, I think naturally,
in anything you know, if
you know you do, if you
see a pair of shoes you
like, where do you get
those from? Or and it's
the same thing, you know,
all that's nice, that's a
piece of it all. Who you
know? Where did you buy
that from? Where did you
do that? Who did that
from you. How do you get
(20:21):
your sort of VA needs
met? Or, you know, so
people will ask for
referrals.
Lea Turner (20:28):
And people
are very willing. I find
people are very willing
to volunteer information
as well, because that is
stuff that happens in the
whole all the time.
Someone says, Oh, I'm
struggling doing this.
And someone else jumps
in. Says, Well, I can do
that. Or you need to
speak to this person that
does it. And I do it a
lot, you know, if I get a
client that says to me,
oh, I need this, this and
this, I'm like, well,
this person, this person,
(20:49):
this person, they won't
do you wrong. Like, this
is who I use, or I I've
worked with them myself,
and it's you capitalize
off the trust that
person's built. You do
brand. But
Mia Denos (21:01):
it also means
you can ask a question as
well, because, because
one of the issues I have
over things like
testimonials is very
often it's like that
person was great, or that
person was really nice,
and it doesn't
necessarily tell you what
you need to this is a
good example, if I was
looking to buy Something
from John Lewis, and I
(21:21):
looked at a review or
something, they often
write something like the
staff are very helpful.
Staff are helpful. Or
lovely kettle. It looks
great in my kitchen,
Lea Turner (21:31):
yeah, but
does it boil the water
efficiently? How long is
it going to last?
Mia Denos (21:35):
You know, just
because it's your kettle
in your kitchen, fine.
Very happy for you, but
it doesn't mean it's
going to be nice in mine.
And if you bought it two
years ago, if they put
bought this kettle two
years ago, still working,
well, use it four times a
day more weekends. I
think that's a great
kettle. So often, when
(21:56):
you look at testimonial,
or they're
Lea Turner (21:57):
not talking
about results, they're
not talking about
results. Yeah, it's more
Mia Denos (22:01):
of a touchy
feely emotional thing,
which doesn't necessarily
Lea Turner (22:06):
the kind of
person that you are, are
you not a touchy feely
kind of not in that? And
I think, like I as a
small business owner, I
I'm really lucky that
I've got a lot of really
positive testimonials
from people, and it's one
of the things that I try.
If I'm asking for a
testimonial from someone,
I will give them, like,
four prompts and say it
(22:26):
would be really helpful
to me if you could talk
about this, this, this
and this, because I know
I'm going to use it in my
marketing, and if I'm
able to use it in my
marketing, if you're
guiding them, that
person's going to also
get visibility for them
and their business. So
it's good. Testimonials
are super important,
whether they're written,
(22:46):
whether they're coming
from the right person,
and yeah, it's not just I
had a nice time with
them. It's much more like
working with them has
changed my business. And
here is how I have made
this much money. I have
saved this much time. I
have been able to get
home in time for the kids
stories and, like, we
want tangible outcomes
(23:08):
that you've received from
these people. I think
that's a, that's a, you
know, that's an
interesting one, because
they are really good for
marketing testimonials.
And so do you include
those in your like,
newsletters with other
people. You know you're
just, it's impressive how
you've you're very laid
back about your business
model, and you just seem
(23:28):
to have found your groove
with it. And you're just
very easygoing. I think,
I think across that way,
Mia Denos (23:35):
I think it
depends very much on what
sort of business you're
in. Leah, because
different things are
going to work in
different ways. You see,
the a lot of people with
business, they think,
who's my competition?
Who's my competition? Who
am I competing against?
Well, actually, I think
most people's competition
is actually to do
(23:56):
nothing. Because if I'm
always looking for a
LinkedIn trainer, right,
plenty of them. I could
look for a LinkedIn
trainer, or I could think
I'm all right, I won't
bother. And the actual
inertia of or getting
over the inertia to get
the training or to do
something is actually the
biggest issue. If
(24:17):
somebody's proactively
looking for something,
then fair enough, they're
going to look for a
LinkedIn trainer, but
somebody might be on
LinkedIn not getting the
results that they want,
and just think, well, it
doesn't really work. And
to say, Well, look, I do
LinkedIn training. This
is what you need. These
are the results you're
getting at you've got to
get over that point of,
well, I'll I'll do
(24:37):
nothing. And I think
that's a lot of people
don't quite get that,
that the the the biggest
obstacle to them getting
a client is that that
client always has the
option to do nothing, to
not buy a service. It's
not necessarily that
there are six other
trainers or podcast
(24:58):
directors or that sort of
thing. And it's the fact,
should I be bothered to
do a podcast? Is it going
to work? I won't bother
to do it. And that's the
default state. Now in
financial services, it's
it's less of an issue
because people have a
house, people have a
(25:19):
mortgage. It's something
that everybody needs.
They're going to do
something. They might not
do it with you, they
might do it with
somebody, but they're
going to do something and
with other businesses.
There is an option to do
nothing, whereas you've
got to live somewhere.
Yeah, my
Lea Turner (25:36):
mortgage is
going to come up for
renewal in two years
time. I am going to have
to take action on it. So
now my only choice is,
Who am I going to do the
action? You know? How am
I going to deal with
that? And the thing is,
and the same goes for
like lawyers, right? If
you have a legal problem,
the first person you ask,
do you know is, is your
closest friends and your
(25:56):
family? Do you know a
good lawyer that does
divorce? Do you know a
good mortgage broker?
First thing I did when I
chose my mortgage broker
was I asked my friend who
did his mortgage, and it
happened to be somebody
that I knew on LinkedIn
and that who was in the
area that I was going to,
and that was an easy
decision for me, and
thank God, because they
(26:17):
were an absolute dream.
Shout Out Sam, who got
me, my, my, uh, my dream
house, but I trusted
somebody that I already
knew, and asked for a
word of mouth, but you
were gonna buy the
Mia Denos (26:28):
house? I was
all, you were gonna buy a
house, yeah? Whereas the
Lea Turner (26:32):
decision to
buy the house had already
been made, it was just,
who's going to help me?
Because you've got
Mia Denos (26:37):
to live
somewhere, yeah? Whereas
with other businesses,
yeah?
Lea Turner (26:42):
Like coaches,
people can just choose to
manage on their own. Yes,
Mia Denos (26:45):
yeah. You
know, I don't need a
leadership coach. You
don't need with this
coach, I don't need a
what have you. So it's
the biggest obstacle, I
think, is the doing
nothing.
Lea Turner (26:54):
I mean, it's
luxury, isn't it? Like a
coach is a luxury? Yes,
we all can benefit from
mentoring coaching, you
know, LinkedIn training
and having a copywriter
to do things for us, we
can all benefit, but it
is a luxury. It's not
necessity. If you're
buying a house, a
mortgage is a necessity.
You
Mia Denos (27:12):
unless you
Well, unless you win the
lottery. Yeah, exactly.
So.
Lea Turner (27:16):
So, yeah, I
really get that. Really
get your point on that
one. What is it that you
see as someone who's you
are a seasoned pro in
this now, and you like, I
say, You do seem really
chilled about it. Just
runs like clockwork.
You've got it nailed, and
it's really seems to have
fed a lifestyle that
you're very comfortable
(27:37):
in. Like, I'm not saying
you don't work hard, but
you never seem to be
somebody who is
overwhelmingly stressed,
you seem to have built a
business that serves the
life that you want to
have and that you enjoy,
which is the point all of
us want to get to, right?
I'm not in it to be a
multi millionaire. I
don't want to just help
anybody. Just it doesn't.
And how do you is it just
(27:58):
the way you set up your
business? Is it? Because
you don't have employees,
is it? But how have you
got to that point where I
think if you are so zen,
Zen, you come across Zen,
if
Mia Denos (28:10):
you work for
when you work for
somebody, then the things
that are the stress in
that you lose some of the
stress because you're not
worried about where your
next client is or how
you're going to get paid.
But I've had jobs where
I've had to make people
redundant, and I know
(28:31):
that people who are
sitting in employed
positions might not be
employed in two months
time, and they probably
don't realize that, or
they don't see the
writing on the wall, or
they don't quite get the
vibes that the company's
in trouble, or there's
going to be a restructure
or something of that
order. So if you can make
(28:52):
a success of self
employment or setting up
your small company, and
you've got a pipeline, or
you've got a reserve,
then your zen, because
you can think, well, I've
got six months money in
the bank, or I've got 12
months money in the bank,
and somebody who is in an
employed position, they
might think that they're
(29:13):
fine, because it's great,
and they're working for a
fab company, but they
don't know that that
company's not going To
relocate to Wales, and
they're in wherever, and
Lea Turner (29:22):
that's it,
isn't it? And you will be
I remember watching, I
think I saw it on
Instagram, some sort of a
meme, and it said you're
working something along
the lines, I'm
paraphrasing, but you're
working your ass off for
a company that, if you
died tomorrow, they'd
have you replaced the
following day, and you're
and I was like, That's so
(29:44):
true, though, isn't it?
Like and it happened,
well, it's one of my
friends lost her
colleague, her colleague
with very sadly, passed
away. And it was very
sudden, and two weeks
later, there was someone
sat in her seat, and they
like, filled the
position. I was like, oh.
But it's the reality as a
company that's obviously
what you have to do.
There's no shame in them
(30:04):
doing that, but it makes
you realize that you are
so everybody in
employment is so
replaceable, and that's a
that's painful to realize
that you are. And I hated
it. I never wanted to
work for a big corporate
because I hated the idea
of me being a small cog
in a massive wheel or a
massive machine. I didn't
want to be insignificant,
(30:27):
and yet, so I worked with
small companies, and I
loved working with small
companies, and I felt
like I was part of a
team, and we were
building something, I was
and I was helping, and
now I'm building
something, and I don't
have employees very
similar to your model
I've chosen to work with.
I outsource to amazing
freelancers who are my
team and we they help me
(30:48):
grow my business. I help
them grow their business,
and I love that I'm doing
it that way. But do you
think that not having
employees for your
business has helped you
to maintain this more
calm
Mia Denos (31:06):
employee.
There's, there's pros and
cons, isn't there. But
one of the definite cons
is a you've got to keep
them occupied for 40
hours, or however many
hours a week, and if the
work is drying up, you've
still got to pay that
person, they contracted
pay, haven't you? So
that's, you know, that's,
that's a worry, isn't it,
for any small business.
(31:27):
But yes, you get all the
other HR aspects of
dealing with people on
top of just the work. And
that can be fine, but it
can be a headache. Yeah.
I think the other thing
that sort of helps with
the stress is that when
you are working for
yourself, you in charge
of your own diary. So
(31:47):
tomorrow, you could,
well, not necessarily
tomorrow, because you're
probably full, but you
could suddenly say, I'm
going shopping, or you
could do this, or you can
ask me to come on this
podcast, and I can say,
Yes, I can do that date.
And I don't have to go
and ask anybody and say,
Can I have that time off
and I'm going to take its
holiday, I'm going to do,
you know, there's none of
that sort of stuff,
because that's quite
(32:08):
stressful. That
Lea Turner (32:09):
took me a
while to realize, because
with with the typing
business, I was working
really, really long
hours, and then it was
all around like when my
son was at daycare and
things like that. When I
switched, and I was
filling up all of the
hours he was still at
school, or he was, she
was during the pandemic
at first, so I was still,
(32:29):
like, anytime he was
napping or distracted by
CBeebies or something, I
was like, right? I can
get some work done now.
And I was working every
hour I possibly could.
And it took me a while to
get to the point, and I
think actually only over
the last six months or so
that I've realized with
the Holt having this
recurring income now as a
membership community, I
(32:50):
know that I've got X
amount of money every
single month, and I can
go but actually I don't
need to take on extra
LinkedIn training, and I
don't need To book
corporate jobs and
speaking events I can
choose to and I can run
the whole I can be there
in the evening, as long
as I'm doing the
masterclass hosting and
I'm still communicating
(33:10):
with the community and
posting on the socials, I
can go in there at night
from my phone if I want
to. And yeah, it's
massively reduced my
stress that I can go on
holiday to Mexico for 10
days with my son and
actually go. I don't feel
like my business is going
to burn to the ground.
Yeah, because I'm not
there for 10 days, I
Mia Denos (33:27):
haven't had to
turn down this or, yeah,
I don't feel terrible
because I haven't posted
on LinkedIn, and that
reduces stress. Oh, it's
massively so it's that if
it doesn't happen
immediately, if it
doesn't happen
immediately, immediately,
and you sort of realize
the benefit, because the
other thing that's
happened to me, because
I've been going for 20
years, is you've got
(33:48):
technology coming in now
that just wasn't there 20
years ago.
Lea Turner (33:53):
I'm still a
bit behind on all of
that, because my brain
for technology is not
there. But what
Mia Denos (33:58):
even just
things like, you know,
you can put a calendar on
your or send that to
clients so that they can
book their own Oh, yeah,
manage that, yeah, all
that sort of thing. I
mean, that wasn't there
20 years ago, yeah,
Lea Turner (34:13):
oh my gosh. I
can't imagine having to
go around with a paper
diary. I would absolutely
lose it. So
Mia Denos (34:17):
there's just
lots of things now that
make life a lot easier,
reduce which just
weren't, just weren't
there.
Lea Turner (34:27):
I rely on my
Alexa. I've got an Alexa
in every room at home,
and I the reason I have
it is because it's synced
to my Google Calendar,
and 10 minutes before
every appointment, my
Alexa's shout out my
appointment, and it does
my son's head in, but I
will forget the amount of
times it said to me, you
know, you've got a zoom
call in 10 minutes. I'm
like, I didn't realize I
(34:48):
had one quickly, throw
some clothes on, grab a
coffee, go to the toilet,
sit down, because I've
completely forgotten
about it. So I'm
absolutely terrible. So,
Mia, 20 years in
businesses is
spectacular, and. That
you're running both your
businesses and it's
serving your lifestyle.
And I think you are, you
are literally setting the
standard that I want to
get to. And I feel like
I'm actually not far away
(35:08):
from feeling quite
chilled. I'm very still
excited and passionate
about moving the
businesses forward, but I
am starting to get to
that point now. And I
think what I'm nearly
year five of running the
businesses, year four of
running the businesses,
second year of the whole
but I think that combined
experience is getting me
to that point where I'm
ready to start going
(35:30):
actually. I don't have to
have my foot on the pedal
all of the time. And I
can go at my own pace and
not be led by everybody
else going. You can do
this, you can do that.
You can go faster. Oh, my
God, because everything
went so fast to start
with for me. And I'm
like,
Mia Denos (35:44):
oh, cupcakes,
you can do well. I felt
it
Lea Turner (35:47):
too, and it's
and it's an age thing as
well. I was like, all
these people are
achieving this much by
40. And I'm like, who
cares? I'm on my own
timeline. I don't have to
follow other people. I
Mia Denos (35:58):
always have to
question, are they? I
mean, you see people on
LinkedIn, you Yeah, and
10,000 pounds doing this
and, and you
Lea Turner (36:05):
just started
that rush at the
beginning, because it's
infected everybody,
right?
Mia Denos (36:10):
And you just
think, no, it is okay to,
like, I see them and
accounts of people, and
think, no, that's, yeah.
What
Lea Turner (36:18):
you say
online isn't quite what
you Yeah, it's,
Mia Denos (36:20):
it's not, it
doesn't stack. Yeah,
well, I
Lea Turner (36:23):
mean, I'm
well aware, because I've
got members of my team
that work with
entrepreneurs that are
very visible on LinkedIn
who claim to be making
six and seven figures.
They can't even afford to
pay their VAs full bill.
And they're, you know,
got payment plans for
their invoices to their
VAs that they haven't
paid anything. So
something doesn't quite
marry up. Yeah, there's,
(36:44):
there's a lot of that
about but I definitely
feel like there is an
expectation of people,
especially on social
media, to do everything
super, super quick. And
actually you are a really
shining example of
someone who has stayed
the course, made your own
pace, chosen how you want
to or if you want to grow
to suit your lifestyle,
(37:04):
and you seem very relaxed
in it, and I really
admire that. So to sum
up, is there one piece of
advice, and think about
like, let's talk about a
30 year old entrepreneur,
and they're maybe six
months into running a
side hustle, and they're
about to, they're
(37:25):
thinking about getting
ready to jump ship and go
all in on this thing that
they're passionate about.
What would you what would
you say to them that they
would be able to take
forward, to really, like,
internalize, and help
them to make what they're
going to do a success?
Mia Denos (37:40):
I think if you
have the ability to get a
reserve in some way,
shape or form, yeah, do
so, and that might be,
you don't go on holiday.
Think of it as if you
know, if you're saving
for a deposit for a
house, yeah, it's that
sort of mindset of, you
don't go on holiday. You
make this sacrifice. But
builders, because that
(38:02):
will if you're not
worried about how you're
going to pay your rent or
feed yourself, make good
decision decisions,
you'll be able to think
far more rationally. Try
and park emotion. And
that doesn't mean don't
get passionate about
something. It's people
tending to take things so
personally in business,
(38:22):
you know that client is
canceled because they
don't like me well, you
know, perhaps they
weren't suited to you.
You know, learn from it.
What was it that they
said differently or what?
And perhaps they're not
recognizing your
boundaries. Perhaps
they're not doing, you
know, what could you do
to perhaps improve it,
but I think your skill
(38:42):
and your business know
that, but then make sure
that you're consistent in
what you do to run your
business and to get the
professionals on board
that you need to and to
take the help that is out
there. There is ask for
help as well to ask for
help and to Google is
(39:03):
probably your best friend
in life. I find
generally, but it's, you
know, there's a lot of
government support out
there that people don't,
yeah, maximize Yeah. And
it's not necessarily the
government will give you
so many 1000 pounds, not
necessarily that support,
but things that you can
get this sort of meet the
(39:23):
expert program that they
do. And there are things
like IP lawyers, there
are marketing experts.
There's all kinds of
where you
Lea Turner (39:29):
Barclays have
an amazing actual we went
to a co working space.
They have an amazing
incentive, Barclays Eagle
labs, and it's free for
entrepreneurs of any age
and anywhere in the
country, and they have
places that they can go,
for co working for free,
and a massive mentorship
program that have VCs and
(39:49):
very successful people
offering free mentoring
to newer business owners.
And I don't think there's
enough advertising around
what's available. People
don't know where to look.
Yeah, and that that's
definitely worth like for
everybody, but that's
Mia Denos (40:03):
where Google
really helped, because it
will. I mean, Google did
Google garage, I don't
think they still do, but
they had set up. I mean,
it was before covid, but
they had setups where
Google paid for support
on how to use. Well, they
did a whole thing about
digital marketing, so it
(40:23):
was sort of SEO and all
the sorts of stuff, plus
they had a now has
experts. So they go to an
area, came to Newcastle,
came to Sunderland, and
they were in Newcastle
library for about three
months. I think so. They
used downstairs space,
which was probably given
by the council, I don't
know, but they paid for
local people who knew
about SEO and digital
marketers to work there,
(40:44):
so you could go and book
a slot, but they did
training courses. They do
online courses. There was
a whole program that
Google did, and that
there is quite a lot of
support out there that
businesses should be
taking advantage. I mean,
even HMRC, as much as we
don't you know
necessarily, like the
taxman, they do have all
(41:06):
their processes. There's
online webinars, and some
of them are live, some of
them are pre recorded, so
you can find out about
stuff and it is out
there. And I would
encourage anybody who's
thinking about setting up
a business to actually
look at the free stuff,
not just go and get a
business coach. I'm not
saying business coaches
are bad, but
Lea Turner (41:26):
there's a
lot, there are big
financial commitments
you're paying early on
where there's a
Mia Denos (41:31):
lot of free
stuff available that will
certainly help you very
well in the early years.
Lea Turner (41:35):
Yeah, I think
you need to be a
personally in my
experience, hiring a
business coach, straight
off the bat, is would be
too early. You need to
know a bit about you and
your business after it's
been going a while before
you can select the right
kind of business coach
for you, for what you
know you need, because
they all are going to be
very, very different.
Mia Denos (41:56):
I think the
other top tip Leah just
is look at who your
competitors or who in the
industries, similar sized
company or similar sized
business to you and what
you're looking to do, and
see what they are
offering. Don't reinvent
the wheel. See what
they're doing, because
they might have spent
hours designing some sort
of service. I don't mean
just copy them. I mean if
(42:18):
what they're doing seems
to be quite successful,
and they're doing it a
certain way that gives
you probably two or three
rungs up the ladder.
Yeah, it's
Lea Turner (42:26):
precedent,
isn't it? Like this? This
is something that I want
to do, and it works.
There is a market for it,
so I can do it as well as
them. Make sure you're
doing it as well as them,
but don't. Yeah, we're
not advocating copying.
But if you can see
someone who does what you
want to do and does it to
a similar scale, and that
it's successful, you
know, it's possible, you
Mia Denos (42:47):
know, how are
they going about doing
it? They're relying a lot
on technology to do that.
Well, okay, perhaps I
need to, you know what
else is out there, and
Lea Turner (42:54):
if there's
questions ask, and that's
something that I think
would surprise most
people, and I've always
been very open about it,
people say to me, how
have you done this? I
will either charge them
some money for some
consultancy and literally
tell them everything, and
if they want to use what
I did, that's fine, and I
literally do that for my
community, or I'm talking
(43:16):
about it openly in the
content that I put out
and the conversations,
the podcasts that I do,
and I will share what I
know, because actually,
so many, so many business
owners, we assume
everyone's going to be
cagey with how they've
done that. They don't
want other people to do
it the same. But
actually, if you, if
you're honest with them,
and say, Hey, I'm
starting something like
this, I'd love to have a
conversation. I'm happy
(43:37):
to pay for your time, but
I'd like to know the
mistakes that you've made
so I can avoid them, or
I'd like to understand
more about the model and
how it works. And it's it
will surprise you. And
the worst they can say is
no, and you know, you
probably
Mia Denos (43:50):
got, well, you
can't train everybody in
the country, can you? No,
you can't, you know,
helping
Lea Turner (43:54):
make your
whole industry better if
you're making sure that
people that are coming
through are delivering
quality service as well.
Yeah, Mia, thank you so
much for being on the
podcast. Thank you for
it's been an absolute
pleasure to get to have a
really good chat with
you, and hasn't he? He's
literally a model dog. I
think you need to do
coaching sessions on how
to be good dog, a good
boy.
Mia Denos (44:14):
Talk about
Zen.
Lea Turner (44:17):
Thank you so
much, Mia.
Mia Denos (44:18):
Thank you.
Before you go, I
Lea Turner (44:20):
just need to
tell you about our
brilliant podcast sponsor
that aligns so well with
our own mission. At the
halt, while seasoned
podcaster Wendy C was
consoling a friend about
a toxic workplace
experience, she realized
that workplace abuse is
so widespread and yet so
many people are suffering
in silence, often alone,
safe space from the
workplace is a new
podcast for everyone. If
(44:41):
you find yourself in a
toxic workplace, you're a
leader or business owner
feeling out of your
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podcast is for you. Wendy
will be talking about
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Subscribe to the safe
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listening, and I'll see
you next time you.
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