February 16, 2025 • 37 mins
This is Matt Emch's near-life-ending 1987 dogman encounter. Matt and 3 friends face a terrifying cryptid in an abandoned Ohio steel mill in the 80s. One of the most terrifying, true close encounters with a real-life werewolf ever.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:16):
Strange mysteries, unexplained phenomena.
And the shadows in between.
This is The InBetween Official Podcastwith your host,
Carol Ann!
I really believe this was the dayI was going to die.
Welcome to the InBetween.
(00:36):
I'm Carol Ann, and todaywe bring you something truly special.
The survivor of this encounter,a personal friend of this channel,
told me he would be honoredto have me tell his story.
But truly, the honor is all mine.
So buckle up, my friends, and get ready
for the absolutely harrowingDogman experience
(00:59):
of Matt Emch.
Work like.
Did you?
1987.
A world of difference away Nobody putsbaby in for from the world of today.
For those of us who were in our teensin the 80s, most of us
(01:22):
remember those days of relative freedompretty fondly.
Life was pretty easyand only getting better.
Teenage girls spent most of their timelearning how to put on makeup,
hanging out at the mall,and swooning over Duran Duran.
But if you were a boy with a bikeat the beginning of summer,
(01:43):
the world was your oyster.
Matt and his friends, who were 14 atthe time, had bikes.
They would ride all around their hometownof Youngstown, Ohio, back in the days
when the only rule most kidstheir age had was to be home by dark.
But Matt and his friends hada favorite place that they liked to go.
(02:06):
Partly because it was closeto where one of their friends lived.
Still took them a half an hourto run the gantlet of highways
and fences and gravel piles to get there.
But mostly because it was a place where
they could just hang outwithout anyone knowing where they were.
Their own private hideout.
(02:26):
Too bad this hideout happened to be insideone of the crumbling old buildings
of the Jeannette BlastFurnaces of the Brier Hill Steel Company.
The steel company and blast furnacesshut down in 1974, so
after being abandoned for over a decade,nature had taken its toll on this place.
(02:47):
Concrete floors were cracked and chipping,and the iron staircases
were rusted and falling apart,and in some cases only half there.
Not to mention the occasional pieceof falling concrete.
There was no end to the list of ways
these boys could get hurtby playing in this building.
And that's only the dangerof the building itself.
(03:10):
That doesn't includethe danger of the area the building is in.
Packs of wild dogs roamed the area.
These are not the friendly pupsthat need rescuing.
These were the kind that would rather takeyour hand than the treat you had in it.
Not to mention the crime.
Youngstown, Ohio in generalwas known as Murder Town USA,
(03:34):
and that particular area was knownfor its mafia body dumps,
occasional gang activity,and the occasional dead homeless person
either murderedor attacked by the wild dogs.
But they couldn't give this place up.
It was perfect.
The first floor was a big open spacethat was kind of like
(03:56):
an atriumthat was open to all the floors above.
Standing in the middle,you could look up and see
each of the three floorsabove you, each with a half wall
that allowedyou look back down to the first floor.
And calling it an atrium,but it's not like it
was this beautiful garden area.
It was empty.
(04:17):
Just concrete everywhere with a massive 4
to 5ft wide pillar at each cornerto hold everything up.
To keep out prying eyes, eithercanine or human,
they had use these 3 to 4fttall metal spartan, shield
looking pieces of metal that just happenedto be laying everywhere,
(04:39):
and stacked them up in two rows to build
a double layer steel wall about 7-8ft
tall around the atrium’sedges, with a small gap
that made kind of a doorwayout onto this concrete apron.
And even then, there's still another eightfeet of open air above that.
(04:59):
And maybe this placewasn't much to look at, but
it was their ownprivate corner of the world.
Their bro HQ.
One June evening, Matt and three otherboys out of the group of friends who,
for the sake of this story,we're going to call Pete, Doug and Terry,
were hanging out in front of a fireon the first floor.
(05:21):
They lit fires there all the time.
The whole place is just open concrete,so it's not like anything's
going to catch fire.
There's plenty of pallets and other debrisaround to burn, and the spartan
shield walls were high enoughso no one outside could see the flames.
It gets to be around9:30, 10:00 at night, full dark outside,
(05:44):
and the boys have hit that pointaround the campfire,
where everyone has told all the storiesthat they have to tell, and are now
just kind of staring into the flames,when they hear the wild dog pack coming.
The sound puts them on alert.
They weren't really worriedabout the dogs.
All of the actual staircases that led intothe building had disintegrated
(06:08):
to the point where the boys had to jump upand kind of crawl their way in.
So the dogs can't get in.
But the boys are curious,so they all get up and step
through that gap in the shield walland out onto this concrete
apron that kind of sticks outfrom the side of the building.
Between the moonlight from aboveand the firelight from their big bonfire
(06:32):
spilling out over their shield wall,they can make out the edges of this
15 to 20fthigh pile of coke in front of them.
Now, coke is a distilled coalthat's used for fuel
in the steelmaking process,and there are these huge piles of it
as far as the eye can seein either direction.
(06:53):
So the boys are standing outon this concrete outcropping.
When they see the dogs, maybe 6 or7 of them, come in front of the building,
make a left, paying no attentionto the boys which is pretty unusual,
cross over the railroad tracksthat run next to the building, and run up
and over the big coke pilethat is right in front of the boys.
(07:16):
Immediately they can hear the soundsof a pretty good dog fight starting,
but it's happening on the far sideof the coke pile so they can't see it.
They can hear some pretty viciousbarking and growling
going on,but they just assume it's a Jets vs.
Sharks of the dog pack world,kind of a turf war going on.
(07:38):
Until they hear the growl.
It's a very loud and very deep
half growl,half roar that rises through the air
on the other side of the pile, followedby yelps and cries of pain from the dogs.
And if that wasn't enoughto get their attention, the two dogs
(08:00):
that come flying over the top of the pilesure do.
And not flying like they were moving fast.
Flying like something has picked them up
and tossed them feet to the sky, flying.
The first one to come overlands in the coke, gets up and limps away,
obviously not interestedin going back for a second try.
(08:24):
The second one to come overhits the coke with the thud,
sending coke bits everywhere.
This one has not faredas well as the first one,
with a deep, bleeding gash on its side.
A couple more come sailing over the top,
followed by the rest of the pack on foot.
(08:45):
They all form up again and as a pack,
get the hell out of Dodge.
As the boys stand there watching themleave and wondering what exactly
could do thisto the dogs, Terry says, “Guys?
What is that?”
Everyone follows Terry'sfinger to the pile where they see crawling
(09:08):
to the top of the pile on all fours
is the biggest animal Matt has ever seen.
It is a gigantic
beast looking creature that is so big.
Matt thinks it's got to be fake.
This thing is easily as big or
bigger than a polar bear,which, standing on all fours,
(09:31):
is about five feet at its shoulder,which is as tall as I am.
But it's not a bear.
It's the opposite of a bear.
It's not the lumberingmass of a polar bear.
This thing is long and sleek and muscular.
It climbs to the top of the pile andwatches the pack of dogs as they run away.
(09:53):
And like the winner of any good dog fight.
It then lifts its leg and startsmarking its territory.
And the boys, who are already freaked out,to say the least, at the sheer
size of this thing,watch in panicked fascination
as the stream of urine hitsthe coke pile with such force
(10:14):
that coke bits go flying.
They can hear the sound of ithitting the rock.
Matt realizes that whatever this thing is,it is bigger
and stronger than anythingthey could have ever imagined.
And he can tell that this thing is notjust an animal, but it's also not human.
(10:35):
It is something else.
And Matt says seeingthis thing is the first time
he can remember feeling actual raw fear.
Because he knows right nowits mind is still on the dogs,
but at some point its going to see themor smell them or hear them or something.
(10:55):
And at that point,its attention is going to turn to them.
As if reading Matt's mind.
Terry starts to stumble backwards,hitting the makeshift shield wall,
causing one of the heavy shieldsto scrape across the concrete.
Matt watches his biggest fear materializein a split second
(11:17):
when the beast snapshis head in their direction.
The boys freeze as its eyesinstantly zero in on them
with a fleetinglook of surprise that quickly turns to
what Matt perceives is a look of angerthat they’re there.
Immediately the boys see its
amber colored eyes glowing.
(11:40):
It's not eye shine. As Matt describes it.
It's like this thinghas its own internal power source.
All the boys are mesmerized by that glow.
There are only like 20, 25ft away from it.
And the eyes are so bigand the glow is so bright
that they can see the black pupils
(12:01):
separate from the glowing amber around it,
and they can see intelligence.
They all just stand, their feet frozen
in place as the monster eyes them.
Each one of them, oneat a time down the line.
When it gets to Matt,he feels like that stare pierces
(12:22):
right to his very core,and before he can wrangle
his thoughts back to coherence,the beast stands up on two legs.
And in that instant, Matt realizes
monsters do exist.
This thing is so big
(12:43):
that it just can't be real.
It has to be fake, right?
Or this has to be a dream that he's
going to wake up from,and curled up in his cozy bed, he's
going to feel really silly for beingso scared of the stupid dream, right?
Right? But he's not waking up.
He watches this thing stand up on two legs
(13:05):
and rise to twice the heightit was before.
And he's still not waking up.
He notices that overall, it's shapedlike a man, but it has dog shaped legs
with almost comically long armsthat go down almost to his ankles.
But it doesn't have pawsat the end of its arms and has hands like
(13:26):
long, grotesqueraccoon hands that end in sharp claws.
Its fur is maybe an inch long all over,even on its tail,
and actually looks like it's never spenta night outside in its life.
And it's jet black.
It's so black that it's blackerthan the black of night behind it.
(13:50):
But the moonlight and fire lightcombination is throwing enough light
that it glints off the black fur,just enough
to see the contours of its muscles.
And it is ripped.
Enormous quads, huge biceps,
a broad chest that Matt estimates
(14:12):
at about 4 to 5ft across.
They can seeevery defined muscle on its body.
If he wasn't so terrified,Matt would say this thing was beautiful.
But he is drawn back to thoseshining eyes.
That is, until it growls again.
(14:32):
They can all hear the menacing, lowpitched rumble
coming from the monsterand can feel it as well.
It's like your insides are vibrating,and your entire body is unstable.
Why not?
Lions and tigersuse infrasound to stun their prey.
Why wouldn't this thing do the same thing?
(14:54):
Matt feels the infrasound waves passthrough his entire chest,
and his knees begin to buckle under him,and he bends over a bit
to catch his balance.
And he's still not waking up.
He looks over at his friendsto see two of them completely bent over,
one looking like he's going to throw upand one actually dry heaving.
(15:18):
Matt feels like he's going to pass outhimself and thinks, “What
the hell is going on?” Longbefore he can even begin
to try to make sense of what is happening,
the monster starts moving toward them.
And the stunning distanceit covers in just two strides
snaps all of the boys back to attention.
(15:41):
Terry turnsaround and runs back into the building
with the other three right on his heels.
None of them are running very fast.
Whatever that growl did tothem is still wearing off,
so they're kind of moving at a fast wobble
to try to get somewhere else.
And the first thing they seeis the stairs.
(16:02):
Too panicked to
have any rational thinking skills working,
they take the stairs to the third floor,where they are now basically stuck.
And Matt is still not waking upfrom this nightmare.
There is a fire escapeoutside of the third floor,
but the section under the third floorhas long since rusted and fallen away.
(16:26):
So the only direction is up to the roof.
On the fourth floor,there's also access to the roof.
But none of the floors have any alternateroute out of the building.
If they want out, they have to go backdown to the first floor
Where that thing is.
Terry starts losing his mind, and starts
(16:48):
crying and screaming which,if the wolf thing doesn't already know
where they are, certainlyisn't going to help keep it that way.
Alarm bells go off in Matt's headwho, running on
pure a adrenaline, grabs Terry so hardit lifts him off the floor.
And he puts his hand over Terry's mouth,desperate to stop the noise.
(17:13):
And even though his cries for helpare now severely muffled,
Terry keeps screaming through Matt's hand.
Everyone else is shouting in the loudestwhispers they
dare, telling Terry, “You gotta shutup, man!
Be quiet!
It's gonna find us!” Finally, Terry runs
(17:34):
short on air and shootsMatt a pleading stare.
Matt tells him, “Ifyou promise to shut up,
I'll let you go.” Terry nods.
Matt loosens his grip,setting Terry's feet back on the floor.
Terry bendsover, gulping in the fresh air.
But before any of them can startto mentally collect themselves.
(17:57):
They all hear a thump,feel the building shake a little
and hear the telltalescraping noise from claws on concrete.
Ladies and gentlemen,Elvis is in the building.
The boys move to the concrete half wallthat looks out down onto the first floor,
and see this thing moving in pastthe shield wall.
(18:21):
They watch its head appearin the firelight, followed by shoulders
that ripple the surrounding musclesas it walks.
And the rest of the jet black,impossibly long body,
until finally the tail signalsthe end of this living mammoth.
The firelight castsa massive shadow on the wall
(18:44):
that just keeps growing and growing,until the entire wall behind it is dark.
They see it scanning the room
and sniffing the air,obviously looking for them.
They stand frozen in place, praying to God
that the relatively windy night aircoming through the building
(19:05):
might either hide their scentor send it off in a different direction.
As they are all transfixed on the beast,
willing themselves into living statues,
they hear a new sound,almost like a light, crackling noise.
Matt sees what looks to be a trailof water drops, following the creature.
(19:27):
And putting the drops togetherwith the crackling noises, realizes
this thing is salivating to the point
that it's drooling onto the concrete,
making the pitter patter noises,like a sprinkler on a driveway.
That tells Matt one thing.
This thing is looking for dinner.
(19:49):
As it slowly moves around the first floorand around the fire,
the boys notice two things.
First, the pure jet blackness
of this whole creatureis actually broken up by a faint
white stripegoing from its shoulders to its tail.
And second, its huge white teethwith canines
(20:11):
so long that they hang out of its moutheven when it's closed
And its eyes are still burning at topintensity.
That internal amber shinethat is so bright.
Matt can see an orange glow
being cast wherever it looks.
Now, the idea that this monster isa natural being
(20:34):
is heart attack inducing enough.
But what Matt sees next convinces himthey are dealing with something
way beyond this world.
He watches it walk around the fireand as it gets close,
one of its hands or paws or whateveryou want to call it, kind of blinks out.
Like just for a couple of seconds, it’scloaked, like Predator.
(20:57):
But that's not all.
While its cloaked out,Matt and Pete can see,
the other two don't see itbecause of their angle, but Matt and Pete
both can seealmost like an energy signature.
Like the plasma ropes you see in videosfrom the surface of the sun.
Then everything goes back to normal,you can call it that.
(21:19):
The creature still has its nosein the air,
tryingto pinpoint the location of the voice.
The wind must take a bad turn for the boysbecause the next thing they see
is the creature's head snap around
and eyes staring directly at them.
The jig is up. It knows where they are.
(21:39):
And it bears its teeth and growlsthat deep, throaty growl again.
And Matt feels the vibration from it,just like he did before.
But sounds don't travelwell through concrete.
So the concrete half wallthat they're standing in front of
must have blocked at leastsome of the sound waves, because this time
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they don't feel weak and sicklike they did before.
The beast stands back up on two legs nearone of the giant concrete
pillars, allowing the boysto get a sense of its true height.
They're estimate?
10 to 12ft tall.
It stands there in an almost comic bookbuff bodybuilder pose,
(22:25):
which would be comicalif they weren't also terrified.
And it also lends credenceto Matt's theory that it has to be fake.
But it's not.
It's standingright there in front of all four of them.
Whatever it is, it is the alpha
predator of alpha predators.
(22:46):
It scans the room first to its leftand then to its right.
Bingo. A staircase.
It looks back at the boys,and Matt's stomach drops
because he and this thingboth know what it's going to do next.
It drops back down to all foursand heads for the stairway.
(23:08):
And even though this stairway is missinglike four stairs, so the boys
would have to jump up and kind of climbtheir way past the missing stairs,
this thing jumps the void like it'snot even there.
Matt watches in simultaneous horror
and fascination at how fluid and gracefulits movements are.
(23:28):
And how it looks like it uses its tailas kind of a rudder to help it
balance and steer, as it makes its wayfrom the first floor to the second.
As the space between themand the monster gets smaller,
a whole new wave of panicerupts from the boys.
Terry starts screamingand just running in circles until
(23:51):
he finally makes a break for the stairsthat take you to the fourth floor.
Doug runs for the fire escapethat will take him to the roof.
That leaves just Matt and Petestanding there
in utter paralysis,not having any idea what to do.
As the creature continuesmoving from the second floor to the third,
(24:14):
Matt knows that when it finally doesmake it to the third,
the first thing in its path is him.
This is the point where Matt beginsto understand
that he's going to die.
He's only 14.
He doesn't have an entire lifetimeof memories to flash in front of his eyes.
(24:35):
But he thinks about his mom and his dad,and his four brothers and sisters.
He thinks about his dog that he adores.
He thinks about how he was all setto go to high school and play football
at the same private schoolhis dad had played at.
But none of that isever going to happen now.
(24:55):
It's all gone.
Instead, they're all going to be mauledand eaten by this monster.
Matt just hopes he's not the last onewho has to watch all the others die.
First,the creature gets to the top of the stairs
where Matt and Pete are just standingthere, not knowing where else to go.
(25:18):
It's standing there 6 or 7ft from Matt.
Close enough that a half a pounce
from this thingwould land it right on top of Matt.
But that doesn't happen in an eventthat Matt can only describe
as divine intervention,just as he can see the monster's muscles
tightening in readinessto pounce, a train goes by.
(25:43):
And not only that, but it blows its horn.
Something that never happens.
Trains going through this area neverblow their horns unless it's an emergency.
They never had before.
And they never have since.
But one did that day.
Matt will never know if it blew the hornbecause it saw the fire
(26:06):
and thought the building was on fire.
Or maybe someone saw somethingunbelievable
happening on that third floor.
Whatever the reason, that hornwas enough commotion
to change the beast'sfocus from the boys to the train.
The boys start screaming at the train.
“Help us!
(26:26):
Somebody help!” Matt can see an indecisionwash over its face
as it looked back and forth between themand that train.
Dinner or safety?
The indecision is replacedwith a flash of anger as the monster's
muscles seem to twitch one last timein Matt and Pete's direction,
(26:47):
like a bully pulling out that last “madeyou flinch” move,
like one last burst of terrorfrom the boys is the minimum payment
it will accept for having to give upan easy meal.
With that,it turns and heads back down the stairs.
It shoots down to the first floorimpossibly fast,
(27:09):
then starts heading for the door.
But just before it leaves the firelight for the darkness,
Matt sees its movements freeze.
It's not the beast that freezes.It keeps going.
It doesn't stop.
But the, the animal form, the monster form
that they see stops as it transitions
into a sort of formless shadow
(27:32):
and continues on out into the darkness.
Matt and Pete
turn their attention back to the train,still yelling for someone to help them.
I mean, whateverthis thing is, it's still out there.
They swear, they hear the train slowing.
And maybe it did. But it didn't stop.
It just continues down the trackuntil the boys can no longer see
(27:56):
or hear it,taking their hopes of rescue with it.
What little glimmer of hopethey had is crushed
as the fear comes roaring back.
Now the train is gone.
Is it going to come back and kill them?
Terry and Doug come backdown to the third floor, thinking that
(28:16):
Matt and Pete's cries for helpmeant that they're all going to be saved.
They all look at one anotherand all can see the toll
this encounter has taken on all of them.
Pale faces. Shaking.
All they want to do is curl up into fourlittle balls and lay there for a while.
(28:38):
But they can't.
They cannot take the chance that thisthing's going to come back for them again.
However, that means to get home,
they have to embark on a minimum half hour
trek to get to the closestpoint of safety.
And none of them has the guts to try that,knowing that this thing could be
(28:59):
waiting for them to leave the buildingbefore it comes back for dinner.
So they stay there for the next hour,
every minute of which is spent thankingGod for keeping the monster away,
trying to mentally psych themselves upand gird their loins for the gauntlet
(29:19):
they are going to have to take,and trying to calm
Terry, who has completely lost it.
He's crying and screaming,“I just want to go home.
I just want my mom and dad.
We can't go out there!
It's going to be waiting for us!”And who can blame him?
(29:43):
He's not saying anythingthat they're not all thinking.
All four of them keep glancing back
at that doorway,that space between the spartan shields,
waiting to see the glowing amber eyesstaring back at them.
But they never appear.
Finally, they summon the courage,or at least enough
(30:04):
will to survive,to move down to the second floor.
Terry’s still losing his mind.
So they just drag him along with them.
They wait there for another half an hour.
Same drill as before,watching for glowing eyes, psyching
themselves up before they get the courageto go down to the first floor.
(30:26):
Once there, they realizethey can't really wait any longer.
They're already outlater than they should be.
And even if they are notbeing stalked by a monster,
this is not the place for kidsto be this late at night.
They have to make a run for it, now.
Terry’s still offthe deep end and is begging the others
(30:50):
not to make him go out there.
Finally, Matt snaps, grabs Terry again
and says, listen, we are leaving.
You are coming with us.
If you don't,that thing is going to come back here
and kill youand you are going to die here alone.
(31:11):
So you either come with us nowor you stay.
But Terry just keeps screaming,“Don't leave me!”
So finally, Matt and Petejust grab Terry by the arms
and pull him from the building,out onto that concrete apron,
where they first saw this thing,and where they last saw this thing.
(31:32):
The next move is to jump downand start running.
Easier said than done.
This outcropping is off the groundby a few feet, so
it would be really easyfor anything to hide underneath
and just wait for them to come outbefore attacking them.
So with the biggest leap of faiththat any of them
(31:53):
will ever have to make in their lives,
they jump down and start running.
And they are running as fast as they canwhile still staying together as a group.
Terry is holding on to Mattand Pete's shirts from behind,
too afraid of being left behind to let go,and choking them both in the process.
(32:14):
But as they get further and further awayfrom that building,
Terry relaxes and startsrunning on his own.
So all four boys are just hoofing it
as fast as they can in a solid groupwith everyone of their senses
on high alert, waiting for the monsterto come after them.
(32:34):
Every kicked rock, every leaf blown
into their path sendstheir panic back to Defcon one.
After the longesthalf hour of their lives,
with maybe the exception of the timethat they were still in the building,
they finally make it to the lastbig hurdle before they're practically home
(32:58):
gravel hill.
To get out of this areaand back to civilization,
they need to climbthis hill of loose gravel
that's somewherein the neighborhood of 100ft tall.
Going down easy.
You just have to turn to the sideand slowly walk down.
But going up, it's a different story.
You have to go up on all fours.
(33:20):
And even if you take it slow and steady,there's a least a 50/50 shot
that the gravel is going
to give way under your feetand send you sliding back down.
Usually they would laugh at each otheras they all struggled up the hill
together, making fun of the first personwho starts to slide, knowing
that it's most likely going to happento all of them at least once.
(33:43):
But nobody is laughing right now.
Not to mention the fact that gettingto the top on a good day is exhausting.
Right now they got nothing in the tankbut an overdose of adrenaline.
That hill may as well beThat's left of insanity.
But there's no way around it.
So they all just start up the hill.
(34:05):
And like always,they all take turns sliding back down.
Except this time, every slip backwards
comes with a heart stopping certainty
that there is a monsterwaiting at the bottom to kill them.
“Is it behindme,” is the call that comes out of each
one of them at least once,as they all struggle
(34:29):
not to take two steps backfor every one step forward.
Finally, Matt and Pete manage
to get to the topand pull the other two up as well.
They all run across the highway,hop the fence on the other side,
cross the street, and collapse on Doug'sfront porch.
(34:49):
Now, this is the point whereI wish I could say
they all live happily ever after.
But they don't.
Terry doesn't talk for two weeks.
And when they all, as a group,tell each of their parents,
their reactions on the scale from “Ibelieve you” to “You’re nuts.
Quit lying,” run the entire spectrum.
(35:12):
Matt, growing up Catholic, decidesto go see a priest at his church.
He tells the priestthe entire story, fully
expecting the priest to chastise himfor concocting such an obscene story.
Much to his surprise,the priest believes every word.
He tells Matt, “Godsaved your life, Matthew.
(35:34):
And you need to understand thatsometimes these things bleed into our
take us.
I don't even know what to say after that.
I'm terrifiedjust listening to him tell his story.
I can't even imagine what he went through.
But if you would like to hear the entirestory directly from Matt himself,
(35:58):
head straight over to Matt's new channel
planet for 12, where his very first video
is his own recountingof the whole horrific experience.
and then stay for all the otherinsane encounters he covers.
Not a big surprise that an experiencelike this would send him down
the cryptid rabbit holewith his own channel,
(36:18):
I've left link for youin the description below.
If you have a far stronger constitution
than I do for breath stopping,nerve wracking encounters
and would like to experienceanother insane epic
Dogman encounter, clickthis video right here.
Be careful out there
(36:41):
and I will see youhere again on the inbetween.
Thanks for tuning into The InBetween Podcast.
Enjoy the full visual experiencewith me over on YouTube.
Just search for @TheInBetweentales.
I'm Carol Ann,and until next time, be careful
(37:01):
out there.
Strange mysteries, unexplained phenomena.
And the shadows in between.
This is The InBetween Official Podcastwith your host,
Carol Ann!
I really believe this was the dayI was going to die.
Welcome to the InBetween.
(00:36):
I'm Carol Ann, and todaywe bring you something truly special.
The survivor of this encounter,a personal friend of this channel,
told me he would be honoredto have me tell his story.
But truly, the honor is all mine.
So buckle up, my friends, and get ready
for the absolutely harrowingDogman experience
(00:59):
of Matt Emch.
Work like.
Did you?
1987.
A world of difference away Nobody putsbaby in for from the world of today.
For those of us who were in our teensin the 80s, most of us
(01:22):
remember those days of relative freedompretty fondly.
Life was pretty easyand only getting better.
Teenage girls spent most of their timelearning how to put on makeup,
hanging out at the mall,and swooning over Duran Duran.
But if you were a boy with a bikeat the beginning of summer,
(01:43):
the world was your oyster.
Matt and his friends, who were 14 atthe time, had bikes.
They would ride all around their hometownof Youngstown, Ohio, back in the days
when the only rule most kidstheir age had was to be home by dark.
But Matt and his friends hada favorite place that they liked to go.
(02:06):
Partly because it was closeto where one of their friends lived.
Still took them a half an hourto run the gantlet of highways
and fences and gravel piles to get there.
But mostly because it was a place where
they could just hang outwithout anyone knowing where they were.
Their own private hideout.
(02:26):
Too bad this hideout happened to be insideone of the crumbling old buildings
of the Jeannette BlastFurnaces of the Brier Hill Steel Company.
The steel company and blast furnacesshut down in 1974, so
after being abandoned for over a decade,nature had taken its toll on this place.
(02:47):
Concrete floors were cracked and chipping,and the iron staircases
were rusted and falling apart,and in some cases only half there.
Not to mention the occasional pieceof falling concrete.
There was no end to the list of ways
these boys could get hurtby playing in this building.
And that's only the dangerof the building itself.
(03:10):
That doesn't includethe danger of the area the building is in.
Packs of wild dogs roamed the area.
These are not the friendly pupsthat need rescuing.
These were the kind that would rather takeyour hand than the treat you had in it.
Not to mention the crime.
Youngstown, Ohio in generalwas known as Murder Town USA,
(03:34):
and that particular area was knownfor its mafia body dumps,
occasional gang activity,and the occasional dead homeless person
either murderedor attacked by the wild dogs.
But they couldn't give this place up.
It was perfect.
The first floor was a big open spacethat was kind of like
(03:56):
an atriumthat was open to all the floors above.
Standing in the middle,you could look up and see
each of the three floorsabove you, each with a half wall
that allowedyou look back down to the first floor.
And calling it an atrium,but it's not like it
was this beautiful garden area.
It was empty.
(04:17):
Just concrete everywhere with a massive 4
to 5ft wide pillar at each cornerto hold everything up.
To keep out prying eyes, eithercanine or human,
they had use these 3 to 4fttall metal spartan, shield
looking pieces of metal that just happenedto be laying everywhere,
(04:39):
and stacked them up in two rows to build
a double layer steel wall about 7-8ft
tall around the atrium’sedges, with a small gap
that made kind of a doorwayout onto this concrete apron.
And even then, there's still another eightfeet of open air above that.
(04:59):
And maybe this placewasn't much to look at, but
it was their ownprivate corner of the world.
Their bro HQ.
One June evening, Matt and three otherboys out of the group of friends who,
for the sake of this story,we're going to call Pete, Doug and Terry,
were hanging out in front of a fireon the first floor.
(05:21):
They lit fires there all the time.
The whole place is just open concrete,so it's not like anything's
going to catch fire.
There's plenty of pallets and other debrisaround to burn, and the spartan
shield walls were high enoughso no one outside could see the flames.
It gets to be around9:30, 10:00 at night, full dark outside,
(05:44):
and the boys have hit that pointaround the campfire,
where everyone has told all the storiesthat they have to tell, and are now
just kind of staring into the flames,when they hear the wild dog pack coming.
The sound puts them on alert.
They weren't really worriedabout the dogs.
All of the actual staircases that led intothe building had disintegrated
(06:08):
to the point where the boys had to jump upand kind of crawl their way in.
So the dogs can't get in.
But the boys are curious,so they all get up and step
through that gap in the shield walland out onto this concrete
apron that kind of sticks outfrom the side of the building.
Between the moonlight from aboveand the firelight from their big bonfire
(06:32):
spilling out over their shield wall,they can make out the edges of this
15 to 20fthigh pile of coke in front of them.
Now, coke is a distilled coalthat's used for fuel
in the steelmaking process,and there are these huge piles of it
as far as the eye can seein either direction.
(06:53):
So the boys are standing outon this concrete outcropping.
When they see the dogs, maybe 6 or7 of them, come in front of the building,
make a left, paying no attentionto the boys which is pretty unusual,
cross over the railroad tracksthat run next to the building, and run up
and over the big coke pilethat is right in front of the boys.
(07:16):
Immediately they can hear the soundsof a pretty good dog fight starting,
but it's happening on the far sideof the coke pile so they can't see it.
They can hear some pretty viciousbarking and growling
going on,but they just assume it's a Jets vs.
Sharks of the dog pack world,kind of a turf war going on.
(07:38):
Until they hear the growl.
It's a very loud and very deep
half growl,half roar that rises through the air
on the other side of the pile, followedby yelps and cries of pain from the dogs.
And if that wasn't enoughto get their attention, the two dogs
(08:00):
that come flying over the top of the pilesure do.
And not flying like they were moving fast.
Flying like something has picked them up
and tossed them feet to the sky, flying.
The first one to come overlands in the coke, gets up and limps away,
obviously not interestedin going back for a second try.
(08:24):
The second one to come overhits the coke with the thud,
sending coke bits everywhere.
This one has not faredas well as the first one,
with a deep, bleeding gash on its side.
A couple more come sailing over the top,
followed by the rest of the pack on foot.
(08:45):
They all form up again and as a pack,
get the hell out of Dodge.
As the boys stand there watching themleave and wondering what exactly
could do thisto the dogs, Terry says, “Guys?
What is that?”
Everyone follows Terry'sfinger to the pile where they see crawling
(09:08):
to the top of the pile on all fours
is the biggest animal Matt has ever seen.
It is a gigantic
beast looking creature that is so big.
Matt thinks it's got to be fake.
This thing is easily as big or
bigger than a polar bear,which, standing on all fours,
(09:31):
is about five feet at its shoulder,which is as tall as I am.
But it's not a bear.
It's the opposite of a bear.
It's not the lumberingmass of a polar bear.
This thing is long and sleek and muscular.
It climbs to the top of the pile andwatches the pack of dogs as they run away.
(09:53):
And like the winner of any good dog fight.
It then lifts its leg and startsmarking its territory.
And the boys, who are already freaked out,to say the least, at the sheer
size of this thing,watch in panicked fascination
as the stream of urine hitsthe coke pile with such force
(10:14):
that coke bits go flying.
They can hear the sound of ithitting the rock.
Matt realizes that whatever this thing is,it is bigger
and stronger than anythingthey could have ever imagined.
And he can tell that this thing is notjust an animal, but it's also not human.
(10:35):
It is something else.
And Matt says seeingthis thing is the first time
he can remember feeling actual raw fear.
Because he knows right nowits mind is still on the dogs,
but at some point its going to see themor smell them or hear them or something.
(10:55):
And at that point,its attention is going to turn to them.
As if reading Matt's mind.
Terry starts to stumble backwards,hitting the makeshift shield wall,
causing one of the heavy shieldsto scrape across the concrete.
Matt watches his biggest fear materializein a split second
(11:17):
when the beast snapshis head in their direction.
The boys freeze as its eyesinstantly zero in on them
with a fleetinglook of surprise that quickly turns to
what Matt perceives is a look of angerthat they’re there.
Immediately the boys see its
amber colored eyes glowing.
(11:40):
It's not eye shine. As Matt describes it.
It's like this thinghas its own internal power source.
All the boys are mesmerized by that glow.
There are only like 20, 25ft away from it.
And the eyes are so bigand the glow is so bright
that they can see the black pupils
(12:01):
separate from the glowing amber around it,
and they can see intelligence.
They all just stand, their feet frozen
in place as the monster eyes them.
Each one of them, oneat a time down the line.
When it gets to Matt,he feels like that stare pierces
(12:22):
right to his very core,and before he can wrangle
his thoughts back to coherence,the beast stands up on two legs.
And in that instant, Matt realizes
monsters do exist.
This thing is so big
(12:43):
that it just can't be real.
It has to be fake, right?
Or this has to be a dream that he's
going to wake up from,and curled up in his cozy bed, he's
going to feel really silly for beingso scared of the stupid dream, right?
Right? But he's not waking up.
He watches this thing stand up on two legs
(13:05):
and rise to twice the heightit was before.
And he's still not waking up.
He notices that overall, it's shapedlike a man, but it has dog shaped legs
with almost comically long armsthat go down almost to his ankles.
But it doesn't have pawsat the end of its arms and has hands like
(13:26):
long, grotesqueraccoon hands that end in sharp claws.
Its fur is maybe an inch long all over,even on its tail,
and actually looks like it's never spenta night outside in its life.
And it's jet black.
It's so black that it's blackerthan the black of night behind it.
(13:50):
But the moonlight and fire lightcombination is throwing enough light
that it glints off the black fur,just enough
to see the contours of its muscles.
And it is ripped.
Enormous quads, huge biceps,
a broad chest that Matt estimates
(14:12):
at about 4 to 5ft across.
They can seeevery defined muscle on its body.
If he wasn't so terrified,Matt would say this thing was beautiful.
But he is drawn back to thoseshining eyes.
That is, until it growls again.
(14:32):
They can all hear the menacing, lowpitched rumble
coming from the monsterand can feel it as well.
It's like your insides are vibrating,and your entire body is unstable.
Why not?
Lions and tigersuse infrasound to stun their prey.
Why wouldn't this thing do the same thing?
(14:54):
Matt feels the infrasound waves passthrough his entire chest,
and his knees begin to buckle under him,and he bends over a bit
to catch his balance.
And he's still not waking up.
He looks over at his friendsto see two of them completely bent over,
one looking like he's going to throw upand one actually dry heaving.
(15:18):
Matt feels like he's going to pass outhimself and thinks, “What
the hell is going on?” Longbefore he can even begin
to try to make sense of what is happening,
the monster starts moving toward them.
And the stunning distanceit covers in just two strides
snaps all of the boys back to attention.
(15:41):
Terry turnsaround and runs back into the building
with the other three right on his heels.
None of them are running very fast.
Whatever that growl did tothem is still wearing off,
so they're kind of moving at a fast wobble
to try to get somewhere else.
And the first thing they seeis the stairs.
(16:02):
Too panicked to
have any rational thinking skills working,
they take the stairs to the third floor,where they are now basically stuck.
And Matt is still not waking upfrom this nightmare.
There is a fire escapeoutside of the third floor,
but the section under the third floorhas long since rusted and fallen away.
(16:26):
So the only direction is up to the roof.
On the fourth floor,there's also access to the roof.
But none of the floors have any alternateroute out of the building.
If they want out, they have to go backdown to the first floor
Where that thing is.
Terry starts losing his mind, and starts
(16:48):
crying and screaming which,if the wolf thing doesn't already know
where they are, certainlyisn't going to help keep it that way.
Alarm bells go off in Matt's headwho, running on
pure a adrenaline, grabs Terry so hardit lifts him off the floor.
And he puts his hand over Terry's mouth,desperate to stop the noise.
(17:13):
And even though his cries for helpare now severely muffled,
Terry keeps screaming through Matt's hand.
Everyone else is shouting in the loudestwhispers they
dare, telling Terry, “You gotta shutup, man!
Be quiet!
It's gonna find us!” Finally, Terry runs
(17:34):
short on air and shootsMatt a pleading stare.
Matt tells him, “Ifyou promise to shut up,
I'll let you go.” Terry nods.
Matt loosens his grip,setting Terry's feet back on the floor.
Terry bendsover, gulping in the fresh air.
But before any of them can startto mentally collect themselves.
(17:57):
They all hear a thump,feel the building shake a little
and hear the telltalescraping noise from claws on concrete.
Ladies and gentlemen,Elvis is in the building.
The boys move to the concrete half wallthat looks out down onto the first floor,
and see this thing moving in pastthe shield wall.
(18:21):
They watch its head appearin the firelight, followed by shoulders
that ripple the surrounding musclesas it walks.
And the rest of the jet black,impossibly long body,
until finally the tail signalsthe end of this living mammoth.
The firelight castsa massive shadow on the wall
(18:44):
that just keeps growing and growing,until the entire wall behind it is dark.
They see it scanning the room
and sniffing the air,obviously looking for them.
They stand frozen in place, praying to God
that the relatively windy night aircoming through the building
(19:05):
might either hide their scentor send it off in a different direction.
As they are all transfixed on the beast,
willing themselves into living statues,
they hear a new sound,almost like a light, crackling noise.
Matt sees what looks to be a trailof water drops, following the creature.
(19:27):
And putting the drops togetherwith the crackling noises, realizes
this thing is salivating to the point
that it's drooling onto the concrete,
making the pitter patter noises,like a sprinkler on a driveway.
That tells Matt one thing.
This thing is looking for dinner.
(19:49):
As it slowly moves around the first floorand around the fire,
the boys notice two things.
First, the pure jet blackness
of this whole creatureis actually broken up by a faint
white stripegoing from its shoulders to its tail.
And second, its huge white teethwith canines
(20:11):
so long that they hang out of its moutheven when it's closed
And its eyes are still burning at topintensity.
That internal amber shinethat is so bright.
Matt can see an orange glow
being cast wherever it looks.
Now, the idea that this monster isa natural being
(20:34):
is heart attack inducing enough.
But what Matt sees next convinces himthey are dealing with something
way beyond this world.
He watches it walk around the fireand as it gets close,
one of its hands or paws or whateveryou want to call it, kind of blinks out.
Like just for a couple of seconds, it’scloaked, like Predator.
(20:57):
But that's not all.
While its cloaked out,Matt and Pete can see,
the other two don't see itbecause of their angle, but Matt and Pete
both can seealmost like an energy signature.
Like the plasma ropes you see in videosfrom the surface of the sun.
Then everything goes back to normal,you can call it that.
(21:19):
The creature still has its nosein the air,
tryingto pinpoint the location of the voice.
The wind must take a bad turn for the boysbecause the next thing they see
is the creature's head snap around
and eyes staring directly at them.
The jig is up. It knows where they are.
(21:39):
And it bears its teeth and growlsthat deep, throaty growl again.
And Matt feels the vibration from it,just like he did before.
But sounds don't travelwell through concrete.
So the concrete half wallthat they're standing in front of
must have blocked at leastsome of the sound waves, because this time
(22:00):
they don't feel weak and sicklike they did before.
The beast stands back up on two legs nearone of the giant concrete
pillars, allowing the boysto get a sense of its true height.
They're estimate?
10 to 12ft tall.
It stands there in an almost comic bookbuff bodybuilder pose,
(22:25):
which would be comicalif they weren't also terrified.
And it also lends credenceto Matt's theory that it has to be fake.
But it's not.
It's standingright there in front of all four of them.
Whatever it is, it is the alpha
predator of alpha predators.
(22:46):
It scans the room first to its leftand then to its right.
Bingo. A staircase.
It looks back at the boys,and Matt's stomach drops
because he and this thingboth know what it's going to do next.
It drops back down to all foursand heads for the stairway.
(23:08):
And even though this stairway is missinglike four stairs, so the boys
would have to jump up and kind of climbtheir way past the missing stairs,
this thing jumps the void like it'snot even there.
Matt watches in simultaneous horror
and fascination at how fluid and gracefulits movements are.
(23:28):
And how it looks like it uses its tailas kind of a rudder to help it
balance and steer, as it makes its wayfrom the first floor to the second.
As the space between themand the monster gets smaller,
a whole new wave of panicerupts from the boys.
Terry starts screamingand just running in circles until
(23:51):
he finally makes a break for the stairsthat take you to the fourth floor.
Doug runs for the fire escapethat will take him to the roof.
That leaves just Matt and Petestanding there
in utter paralysis,not having any idea what to do.
As the creature continuesmoving from the second floor to the third,
(24:14):
Matt knows that when it finally doesmake it to the third,
the first thing in its path is him.
This is the point where Matt beginsto understand
that he's going to die.
He's only 14.
He doesn't have an entire lifetimeof memories to flash in front of his eyes.
(24:35):
But he thinks about his mom and his dad,and his four brothers and sisters.
He thinks about his dog that he adores.
He thinks about how he was all setto go to high school and play football
at the same private schoolhis dad had played at.
But none of that isever going to happen now.
(24:55):
It's all gone.
Instead, they're all going to be mauledand eaten by this monster.
Matt just hopes he's not the last onewho has to watch all the others die.
First,the creature gets to the top of the stairs
where Matt and Pete are just standingthere, not knowing where else to go.
(25:18):
It's standing there 6 or 7ft from Matt.
Close enough that a half a pounce
from this thingwould land it right on top of Matt.
But that doesn't happen in an eventthat Matt can only describe
as divine intervention,just as he can see the monster's muscles
tightening in readinessto pounce, a train goes by.
(25:43):
And not only that, but it blows its horn.
Something that never happens.
Trains going through this area neverblow their horns unless it's an emergency.
They never had before.
And they never have since.
But one did that day.
Matt will never know if it blew the hornbecause it saw the fire
(26:06):
and thought the building was on fire.
Or maybe someone saw somethingunbelievable
happening on that third floor.
Whatever the reason, that hornwas enough commotion
to change the beast'sfocus from the boys to the train.
The boys start screaming at the train.
“Help us!
(26:26):
Somebody help!” Matt can see an indecisionwash over its face
as it looked back and forth between themand that train.
Dinner or safety?
The indecision is replacedwith a flash of anger as the monster's
muscles seem to twitch one last timein Matt and Pete's direction,
(26:47):
like a bully pulling out that last “madeyou flinch” move,
like one last burst of terrorfrom the boys is the minimum payment
it will accept for having to give upan easy meal.
With that,it turns and heads back down the stairs.
It shoots down to the first floorimpossibly fast,
(27:09):
then starts heading for the door.
But just before it leaves the firelight for the darkness,
Matt sees its movements freeze.
It's not the beast that freezes.It keeps going.
It doesn't stop.
But the, the animal form, the monster form
that they see stops as it transitions
into a sort of formless shadow
(27:32):
and continues on out into the darkness.
Matt and Pete
turn their attention back to the train,still yelling for someone to help them.
I mean, whateverthis thing is, it's still out there.
They swear, they hear the train slowing.
And maybe it did. But it didn't stop.
It just continues down the trackuntil the boys can no longer see
(27:56):
or hear it,taking their hopes of rescue with it.
What little glimmer of hopethey had is crushed
as the fear comes roaring back.
Now the train is gone.
Is it going to come back and kill them?
Terry and Doug come backdown to the third floor, thinking that
(28:16):
Matt and Pete's cries for helpmeant that they're all going to be saved.
They all look at one anotherand all can see the toll
this encounter has taken on all of them.
Pale faces. Shaking.
All they want to do is curl up into fourlittle balls and lay there for a while.
(28:38):
But they can't.
They cannot take the chance that thisthing's going to come back for them again.
However, that means to get home,
they have to embark on a minimum half hour
trek to get to the closestpoint of safety.
And none of them has the guts to try that,knowing that this thing could be
(28:59):
waiting for them to leave the buildingbefore it comes back for dinner.
So they stay there for the next hour,
every minute of which is spent thankingGod for keeping the monster away,
trying to mentally psych themselves upand gird their loins for the gauntlet
(29:19):
they are going to have to take,and trying to calm
Terry, who has completely lost it.
He's crying and screaming,“I just want to go home.
I just want my mom and dad.
We can't go out there!
It's going to be waiting for us!”And who can blame him?
(29:43):
He's not saying anythingthat they're not all thinking.
All four of them keep glancing back
at that doorway,that space between the spartan shields,
waiting to see the glowing amber eyesstaring back at them.
But they never appear.
Finally, they summon the courage,or at least enough
(30:04):
will to survive,to move down to the second floor.
Terry’s still losing his mind.
So they just drag him along with them.
They wait there for another half an hour.
Same drill as before,watching for glowing eyes, psyching
themselves up before they get the courageto go down to the first floor.
(30:26):
Once there, they realizethey can't really wait any longer.
They're already outlater than they should be.
And even if they are notbeing stalked by a monster,
this is not the place for kidsto be this late at night.
They have to make a run for it, now.
Terry’s still offthe deep end and is begging the others
(30:50):
not to make him go out there.
Finally, Matt snaps, grabs Terry again
and says, listen, we are leaving.
You are coming with us.
If you don't,that thing is going to come back here
and kill youand you are going to die here alone.
(31:11):
So you either come with us nowor you stay.
But Terry just keeps screaming,“Don't leave me!”
So finally, Matt and Petejust grab Terry by the arms
and pull him from the building,out onto that concrete apron,
where they first saw this thing,and where they last saw this thing.
(31:32):
The next move is to jump downand start running.
Easier said than done.
This outcropping is off the groundby a few feet, so
it would be really easyfor anything to hide underneath
and just wait for them to come outbefore attacking them.
So with the biggest leap of faiththat any of them
(31:53):
will ever have to make in their lives,
they jump down and start running.
And they are running as fast as they canwhile still staying together as a group.
Terry is holding on to Mattand Pete's shirts from behind,
too afraid of being left behind to let go,and choking them both in the process.
(32:14):
But as they get further and further awayfrom that building,
Terry relaxes and startsrunning on his own.
So all four boys are just hoofing it
as fast as they can in a solid groupwith everyone of their senses
on high alert, waiting for the monsterto come after them.
(32:34):
Every kicked rock, every leaf blown
into their path sendstheir panic back to Defcon one.
After the longesthalf hour of their lives,
with maybe the exception of the timethat they were still in the building,
they finally make it to the lastbig hurdle before they're practically home
(32:58):
gravel hill.
To get out of this areaand back to civilization,
they need to climbthis hill of loose gravel
that's somewherein the neighborhood of 100ft tall.
Going down easy.
You just have to turn to the sideand slowly walk down.
But going up, it's a different story.
You have to go up on all fours.
(33:20):
And even if you take it slow and steady,there's a least a 50/50 shot
that the gravel is going
to give way under your feetand send you sliding back down.
Usually they would laugh at each otheras they all struggled up the hill
together, making fun of the first personwho starts to slide, knowing
that it's most likely going to happento all of them at least once.
(33:43):
But nobody is laughing right now.
Not to mention the fact that gettingto the top on a good day is exhausting.
Right now they got nothing in the tankbut an overdose of adrenaline.
That hill may as well beThat's left of insanity.
But there's no way around it.
So they all just start up the hill.
(34:05):
And like always,they all take turns sliding back down.
Except this time, every slip backwards
comes with a heart stopping certainty
that there is a monsterwaiting at the bottom to kill them.
“Is it behindme,” is the call that comes out of each
one of them at least once,as they all struggle
(34:29):
not to take two steps backfor every one step forward.
Finally, Matt and Pete manage
to get to the topand pull the other two up as well.
They all run across the highway,hop the fence on the other side,
cross the street, and collapse on Doug'sfront porch.
(34:49):
Now, this is the point whereI wish I could say
they all live happily ever after.
But they don't.
Terry doesn't talk for two weeks.
And when they all, as a group,tell each of their parents,
their reactions on the scale from “Ibelieve you” to “You’re nuts.
Quit lying,” run the entire spectrum.
(35:12):
Matt, growing up Catholic, decidesto go see a priest at his church.
He tells the priestthe entire story, fully
expecting the priest to chastise himfor concocting such an obscene story.
Much to his surprise,the priest believes every word.
He tells Matt, “Godsaved your life, Matthew.
(35:34):
And you need to understand thatsometimes these things bleed into our
take us.
I don't even know what to say after that.
I'm terrifiedjust listening to him tell his story.
I can't even imagine what he went through.
But if you would like to hear the entirestory directly from Matt himself,
(35:58):
head straight over to Matt's new channel
planet for 12, where his very first video
is his own recountingof the whole horrific experience.
and then stay for all the otherinsane encounters he covers.
Not a big surprise that an experiencelike this would send him down
the cryptid rabbit holewith his own channel,
(36:18):
I've left link for youin the description below.
If you have a far stronger constitution
than I do for breath stopping,nerve wracking encounters
and would like to experienceanother insane epic
Dogman encounter, clickthis video right here.
Be careful out there
(36:41):
and I will see youhere again on the inbetween.
Thanks for tuning into The InBetween Podcast.
Enjoy the full visual experiencewith me over on YouTube.
Just search for @TheInBetweentales.
I'm Carol Ann,and until next time, be careful
(37:01):
out there.
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