April 17, 2024 • 60 mins
Join us on this enlightening journey through the eyes of Mr. Darnel Williams, a certified Salesforce application developer at IBM, on the I.T. Connect podcast.
Darnell is originally from the nature isle of Dominica and travelled thousands of miles in pursuit of his educational goals.
From his journey as a student at Grambling State University to an integral part of IBM's technical team, Daniel's story is a testament to the power of perseverance, adaptability, and passion for technology.
In this episode, take a deep dive into Darnel's invaluable experiences as the president of NSBE and vice president of the Math and Computer Science Club at Grambling, illuminating the role these positions played in shaping his career. Learn the technicalities of developing and deploying solutions at IBM including insights about Apex and the Agile Scrum methodology, making the IT field easier to grasp for beginners and enthusiasts.
Embark on a voyage from the beautiful island of Dominica to the United States and understand the cultural shocks and the learning experiences that Daniel embraced along the way. Whether you're a STEM student, struggling to understand the American educational system and job market, or just a tech enthusiast looking to dive into the field, this episode is a treasure house of motivation and tips for you.
Don't miss the opportunity to learn from Darnel's journey from an international student to an IT professional at IBM, overcoming innumerable obstacles and shattering the glass ceiling. Tune in and be inspired!
Enjoying this episode?
Inspired by this work? Help us expand the reach of this movement by leaving us a 5 star review. Interested in connecting with us on Linkedin? Kazim --> https://www.linkedin.com/in/kazimabbot
Kazim's Website --> https://www.kazimabbot.com/ Darnel --> https://www.linkedin.com/in/darneldwilliams/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Music.
(00:12):
Welcome to the IT Connect podcast, a movement to connect minority students with
professionals in the IT industry and therefore bridge the diversity gap in technology.
Let me now introduce our guest speaker for today who I'm really excited to have on this call. So Mr.
Darnell Williams is currently a Salesforce application developer who works for IBM.
(00:34):
He's certified in the Salesforce platform development as an admin and developer.
He graduated from Grammarly State University in 2017 with a double major,
Electronics Engineering Technology and Mathematics and Physics.
During his grambling career, he served as the president of NSBE,
as well as vice president of the Math and Computer Science Club.
(00:55):
Daniel has done internships with Apple and Centrelink and has been a phenomenal
talent, phenomenal, I'll call him, when it comes to the academic technology space.
So please join me in welcoming Daniel Williams to the IT Connect podcast.
Podcast. Daniel, welcome to the podcast.
Yeah, Kazem. Thanks for having me.
Man, we're glad to have you here. So Daniel, we're going to get right to it.
(01:18):
In your bio, I mentioned that you were a Salesforce developer.
So my very first question for you, Daniel, is I call it a snapshot of today.
So just tell us what is your role at IBM and what exactly that you do?
Okay, so as Tazim said, I'm a Salesforce platform developer.
And basically what I do is develop and deploy solutions for various clients.
(01:41):
And that is it in a nutshell. So in certain instances, I have to create custom interfaces.
I'm using the programmatic capabilities of the Lightning platform.
So that's like using Apex. That's what we use to code more on the back end.
Or I'm using JavaScript and HTML, CSS for styling when doing stuff on the front end.
(02:05):
Okay. So you mentioned Apex, HTML. So I think those of us who,
I guess most of these guys have an idea of what that is.
I wasn't familiar with Apex that much. Could you tell us just a little bit more
about what exactly Apex is for someone who's probably never heard it before?
Okay. So Apex is kind of like the language that Salesforce uses more like on
the backend. end, it is 19, I'll say 95 to 98% Java.
(02:32):
So if you have a background in Java and you understand the Java syntax is,
I'll say it's exactly the same, just with one or two tidbits at the end there.
Okay. And, um, what would a typical day be like for you in this role with IBM?
Okay. So we work in the agile scrub methodology.
(02:53):
So basically we work in, well, on the last two projects I've worked on,
we've worked in three-week sprints and in Agile you do two to like four-week
sprints, usually more like two weeks. weeks.
So a day-to-day would be you start off in the morning, you have a meeting with your team,
(03:14):
basically talk about, you know, what you have done the previous day,
what you plan on doing for that day, as well as, you know, talk about any blockers
that you may be experiencing that's hindering your progress.
So after you have your daily stand-up, that's what we call them,
you just go in and you you start
(03:35):
doing work so you may have let's
say user stories you have a bunch of different user stories that you
select maybe you've been working on one already you it
entails a lot of thinking first of all yeah you have to think of hey this client
has a problem they put it down in different user stories and you have to identify
(03:58):
the problem in that user the story and find out the best way of,
you know, solving that problem.
So that's all I do all the problem solve on this project.
Because the client does not want to deal with maintaining code so much,
they want us to take more of declarative approach.
(04:19):
That means like using more of the drag and drop functionalities of the Salesforce
platform, because Salesforce also allows you to build solutions as quickly as
possible and minimize the amount of code that you have to use.
But there are instances where a solution that the client requests needs some
(04:40):
custom logic or some custom code that's not already pre-built.
So on this project, I do more declarative programming, but it can easily jump
up to Apex code and you can really get into the nitty-gritty of actually writing a lot of code.
Man, that's some good stuff, Donald. And I like that you call out the agile framework.
(05:03):
So for you guys, the agile methodology is something you're going to hear a lot
about if you haven't heard it yet.
It's definitely, it's been around for a while, but it's getting some more momentum.
I guess I'll just ask a follow-up question, Donald.
I guess, what was it like for you kind of first getting exposed to the agile framework?
And just tell us a little bit more about that framework. I know you call out
a few things like the stories and the sprints, but just give us a little bit
(05:24):
more on how you first started. And if it was an easy learning curve,
getting into Agile, having not really done it at all, probably in college.
I've never done it before, but I did a lot of research.
And that's one thing that we may talk about more as we move on for the podcast,
but just being prepared, you know, it's always good to be prepared.
So the Agile framework, it's an iterative process, right?
(05:49):
Right. So usually before we have like the waterfall process where you have a
project and you look at it from start to finish, start to end,
and you go through that entire process in Agile.
Yes, you have a project plan, but you also break it up into smaller,
(06:09):
more bite-sized pieces called sprints. And as you go day by day,
for example, we have the daily stand up.
You kind of see your progress where you are and then you adjust and it's more flexible.
So after this sprint, I say we did.
We're expecting to do 10% of the project, realize we did 15%,
(06:31):
then we can kind of micromanage and plan accordingly and change things.
So agile, as the name suggests, just makes you more flexible,
more agile, so that you can better go through the development cycle and ensure that you deliver.
So you can notice that, hey, you're a little behind.
(06:53):
Hey, we need to do this and that. We're a little ahead. head,
okay, maybe we can spend some more time on testing and so on and so forth.
That's great, Donald. Guys, I hope you guys, again, we'll be recording this
so you could go back and listen to it.
But I think that is some real value for aspiring technology students, right?
Because again, what he described was the waterfall model where you can have
your requirements up front where here's what we want to build.
(07:15):
We have X number of months to build it. And we're just going from start to end, as he mentioned.
But again, things change daily, man, in the technology world.
I mean, things are always, there's always change.
And I think it's, again, definitely, if you guys are the one thing out of this session so far,
be sure to just research more about the agile framework versus the waterfall
framework and understand how that movement is impacting the technology landscape
(07:40):
and the job landscape as well.
Because I mean, I see a lot of job descriptions where that is a preference for
you to be at least familiar with the agile methodology.
So thank you very much for that, Daniel. So, we're going to move into a bit
of a back in time and talk about your history a little bit.
I'm sure anyone who heard you speak will say, okay, I hear an accent. So, we'll get into that.
(08:02):
So, Donna, I'm going to ask you what I believe is the hardest question in any job interview.
Tell me about yourself and where you're from. Okay.
Well, I grew up on the beautiful island of Dominica.
Dylan is also from Dominica. We're actually from the same community.
We knew each other growing up and all of that.
(08:24):
So growing up, I always loved nature and I loved tech. That's the two things
that I've kind of been around.
And I have to thank my parents for that because I remember as young As young
as six years old, it was around 97, 96, maybe I was five, 96, 97.
That's when my parents kind of bought us our first computer.
(08:49):
We had a computer, Windows 95.
It was very expensive. I didn't really understand, you know,
money and all those things at the time.
It's only after I realized, oh, they really invested a lot in us.
Us so having that first computer it
was just mind-blowing you know it was intriguing on
my LinkedIn I said that if you look up my
(09:11):
LinkedIn profile I said that my first electric shock was what kind of sparked
my interest in in tech that also played a role in me playing around with stuff
I was fortunate that you know it wasn't worse but I've just always been surrounded
by tech and And also my siblings,
some of my siblings are engineers. They work in the medical field.
(09:33):
I have cousins, other family members who are, you know, doctors and all that stuff.
So I've always been exposed to technology and tech, even from a very young age.
And as a kid, I would always have like just crazy conversations with like my,
(09:54):
my parents and my, my brothers and about all types of things like going to the
moon and, you know, different tech and planes and just everything you could think of.
So I'll say my family had a very big impact on me choosing this field and this path.
I love it, man. Nature and technology. And as you were describing the impact
(10:16):
your parents had, I almost felt like, you know, you start to sound like Elon
Musk a little bit, you know, like the parents put that incubator,
which allows you to really get that creativity.
And that's something I want to call out because I think parents,
especially, that's something they have to be conscious about.
Putting that environment for your children, even your niece or your nephew,
(10:37):
that's something I'm actually trying to get more into. How do we cultivate that environment?
So So from early, we sparked that curiosity where people were like,
you know what? This is interesting to me. What, how does this work?
And hopefully, hopefully you don't have to get shocked, but hopefully we could get to doing that.
So I want to get into, you know, how you got from the beautiful nature island
(10:58):
of Dominica to Grambling.
Okay. So let's now move on to Darnell.
Tell us about your decision to leave the beautiful nature island of Dominica
to go to lovely lovely Louisiana, to get a bachelor's degree?
Well, it was actually an easy decision, way easier than you may think,
(11:21):
because I was in Dominica, and I wanted to further my education.
I'd done two years of schooling back home, and there was actually a stop before I came to Louisiana.
I actually went to Morocco for two years, where i got a chance to you know kind
of learn some french learn a little bit of arabic and,
(11:44):
let's just say after two years things were not the path to get where i wanted
to get to it wasn't how i envisioned it so right there i decided to apply for gambling,
And in the space of like just that summer, I went to get my visa, do all of that stuff.
(12:05):
And then I went to gambling in 2013.
So international students talk about a culture shock, right?
How it's difficult leaving home and going to just a foreign place.
And when I got to gambling, as I said, preparation.
I already looked at the Google Maps and all of that. I was still kind of surprised
(12:28):
by all the trees, but it kind of felt like in the middle of nowhere.
And as I said, I spent two years in North Africa.
So for me, it was like I already got the biggest culture shock of my life previously.
So coming to Grameen was a relatively easy transition.
(12:50):
I was closer to home, although I was pretty far away from home.
And starting off at Gremlin, it helped having friends, having people that you
knew. So first, right off the bat, as I said, I knew Dylan.
He's on the call and he's one of the people that kind of helped me get accustomed to Gremlin.
He introduced me to different people like Kazim and other people,
(13:15):
Caribbean people that he associated with.
And these individuals.
Played a huge role in me just making a
smooth and quick transition into not
just my classes and you know registering and
all that stuff but you know getting jobs and getting different you know opportunities
(13:35):
on campus so thanks again Tessian and Dylan so down there you hit something
when I well I'll give a story first you mentioned about the middle of nowhere
so when I when I first landed in Shreveport in a route to Grambling.
My buddies told me, man, it's like a country, there's not much around.
So I got to Shreveport, which is about an hour, five minutes away.
(13:59):
And I saw Circuit City, which is no longer existing, but back then it was a thing.
I'm seeing Circuit City, I'm seeing big buildings. I'm like,
my guys are, you know, them guys are tripping, man. It's not that bad.
So I get into a taxi, me and a young lady, We shared a taxi,
which was like 50 bucks a head. I was like, oh my God.
So we get into the taxi. I'm seeing big buildings. I fell asleep.
(14:22):
When I woke up, all I see is trees and bush.
I'm like, whoa, is he trying to kidnap me or something, man?
I got no money. I'm just saying.
So that was a fun, my fun story. And when I finally go to the campus,
I'm like, oh, okay. My buddies did not lie.
It is what it is. But of course, shout out to Grambling State.
I thought it was a great institution and we both had a great time.
(14:45):
We both were able to, all of us, when they actually were able to do amazing
things, even though that was our starting point.
So that was awesome. So Donald, talk about your, let's talk about the financial part.
So my, my philosophy is, you know, I really promote the idea of a debt-free degree.
That's something I'm really big on. So tell me about, you know,
the financial aspect of your decision-making as far as government,
(15:06):
government is concerned.
Well, you know that our government, you know, they offer, you know,
full scholarships and partial scholarships to go to different universities in the States.
And Grambling was one that I identified where I could possibly get,
you know, a full scholarship to attend.
I also looked up their programs.
(15:29):
I saw that their engineering technology program was accredited.
So for me, it was almost like, well, I know, you know, someone who's over there
already. So that kind of helped with the transition.
It's an accredited program.
And I like what I saw online. And I was going to get an opportunity to not have to pay student loans.
(15:55):
So that was honestly one of the biggest factors in my decision.
Agent. Man, that's good. I think some things you mentioned, I want to really call out.
You know, you had people who had been there before. And I tell students all
the time, if you're thinking about going to an institution, think about your network.
Do you know anybody who's either done that major or gone to the school you're
thinking about going to?
(16:16):
Then you thought about the finances. You said, okay, there's full scholarships,
which would make it easier for me. I wouldn't need loans.
So that was part of your decision-making criteria as well.
The third one was accreditation. You look to see that the program you were going
to do was actually accredited.
And I want to just say something that I really hope aspiring STEM professionals understand.
(16:37):
It's really not about where you
go. If you're in STEM, you could go to any school once it's accredited.
And once you have a decent GPA and you put in the work, you will get jobs.
Because the demand for STEM jobs is higher than the actual supply for those
jobs. So I love your decision-making format and the logic that went into deciding
to attend Grambling State.
(16:58):
What challenges, Daniel, would you say you experienced while at GSU?
Initially, I would say, as I said before, I didn't have too many challenges.
I was very fortunate, if I have to be 100% honest.
I got over there. I was expecting a full scholarship.
(17:22):
And if you have not listened to Kazim's podcast on, what's the name of that
podcast? I can't remember.
He spoke about some of the difficulties that he faced. I never faced any of those difficulties.
Everything that I expected kind of just happened.
One of the challenges I would say that happened throughout my time at GSU was
(17:46):
just, and it wasn't specifically related to GSU, it was specifically related to my status,
is that certain opportunities that you try to reach out for,
whether it be additional scholarships or maybe internships or certain job opportunities,
you see them advertised and then you see the big, You have to be a U.S.
(18:11):
Citizen or whatever to enroll or be accepted for whatever program that may be.
And that was one of the biggest challenges, just my status and being the person that I am.
I'm always looking for ways to try to improve myself and try to get exposure.
(18:32):
And when you apply for something and you're very excited and then you get shut
down, not because of, you know, your ability or anything like that,
but just because, hey, where you're from, you know, that is,
that's tough.
It really, you know, demoralizes you and it's hard to overcome.
(18:56):
Man, I'm happy you touched on that. And you're right, that is definitely the
number one challenge, I think, international students face when they're trying to get opportunities.
That whole must be a U.S. citizen, permanent resident. And I do want,
if any international students listening, I think it's also an opportunity to
really realize that, number one, you have to work probably 10 times harder than
everybody else because you have so much less opportunity available.
(19:18):
But again, I think it really speaks to your resilience and willing to press
on. And again, we're going to get into this next.
You were able to still find opportunities despite those challenges.
So let's talk about internships. Tell us about how you approached the whole
internship finding process and ultimately how you ended up landing an internship with Apple.
(19:40):
Okay so once again it comes
down to the people you know
and the people that know you and
you know your circle in a nutshell i remember on thursday i said that to the
guys on the who joined the test call that if you guys are on kazim that's a
(20:05):
good person to have around because you know And we always kind of,
you know, push on the right path and let you know about opportunities.
And when I got that internship, it was actually Kazim who reached out to me. Well, let me go back.
It was Kazim who actually reached out to me and said, you know what?
There's an opportunity for this Apple scholarship and internship.
(20:27):
And you should really try it out.
And yes, he told me about the opportunity.
Opportunity and I could have easily said, well, Apple,
you know, I'm just a little old me, you know, maybe just lie about it and say,
you know, hey, I applied and, you know, I just didn't get the opportunity.
(20:50):
I went through, I filled out the application, I did all of the steps and there was,
was after the initial application there
was an interview process so i
got shortlisted to the people who actually
got interviewed and actually was two interviews there was a kind of like a behavioral
(21:10):
one and then you know more of a technical one and eventually i got the call
back that i was one of the few people who were selected you know for that internship
and it just stemmed And from Kazin,
just send me a link and say, hey, you know what?
You can apply for this opportunity, something that I wasn't even aware of.
(21:33):
And after he brought that to my attention, I also had to act on it and go through
the process and prepare myself.
And that's kind of how that whole thing went.
And I, in that summer, summer of 2016, I went out to California.
I had a great opportunity to, although I felt it's intimidating some of the
(21:57):
people that you happen to meet, Because at the end of the day,
we're all gifted, we're all talented,
but there are some really incredible people out there.
But even if you don't get, you may say, hey, this person may possibly beat me
out to get whatever opportunity or whatever.
You always have to think positively. Hey, I can learn something from this person.
(22:20):
You know, I can learn from this experience.
And that's what you should always try to do. You always try to learn from all
of your experiences because, you know, that will help you.
You really kind of, yes, you're in a race against other people,
but you are in a race of yourself.
You know, you're trying to be the best version of yourself.
So I just took that as an opportunity to learn as much as I could, be a sponge and learn.
(22:48):
Look at me now. It got me an opportunity to land a job at IBM.
And that's amazing, Daniel. And you touched on so many different things.
I actually want to pull the thread on some more. But I want to add some context, guys.
So, you know, Daniel mentioned, I told him about the opportunity.
And that opportunity for those listening who are attending HBCUs,
it was an opportunity that came with partnership with the Thurgood Marshall College Fund.
(23:13):
And they have some partnership with Apple. I just want to backtrack a little bit.
When I first heard about the Thurgood Marshall College Fund,
I wasn't grumbling. The first time I ever heard about it, I missed it.
I forgot to connect with the organization. Then the following year,
when I heard they were coming to campus, I was on a mission.
And I'm like, I need to connect to those people.
When they came to campus, when I was in the front row seat, I connected with
(23:36):
one of the main recruiters. To this day, I have her as a friend on LinkedIn,
which I have every now and then.
And then I encouraged guys like Daniel to join the organization as well.
And I'll never forget, the morning I had my interview for the program,
not for the Apple thing, but for the overall program, I think I had the very
first time sort of available.
It was like 8 o'clock in the morning or 7.30 in the morning.
Did my interview, came in well-dressed, suit and tie.
(23:59):
And I kid you not, literally, as I'm leaving the room, I'm seeing the next interview
person, Darnell, right? Right.
So I said that to say, man, you know, it's, it's really, it really brings joy
to my heart when I see people who I point to actually take action.
And he said, you must take action.
If people give you the information, but you don't execute on it, there'll be nothing.
(24:22):
And I like what he said. He said he could have been intimidated and,
you know, he could have said, you know, man, it's a big apple, but he took a shot.
You know, there's a phrase in America right now, shoot your shot. Right.
I mean, he took a shot. And I like how Michael Jordan said it,
you know, you could never make the shots you don't take.
(24:42):
You could never make the shots you don't take. Man, take it.
So, I mean, try some things, man. Try. Try to get out there.
You're going to miss some.
It's part of the game. But, again, you don't need to make all of them.
You just need to make the right ones.
So, one thing I want to talk about. You were a math and engineering major going
for an IT internship. How did you overcome those odds to not only get the internship,
(25:07):
but to thrive once you got to California?
Well, in software development, it's all about, you know, thinking and solving problems.
Now, one disadvantage was that I was not a CS major, as you said.
I did one, maybe two computer programming classes.
(25:31):
One was in C++ one was in actually I did that C++ class after it was actually in Visual Basic but I.
To be successful, your best friend has to be, one of your best friends has to be Google.
You know, in this day and age, you have access to so many resources that,
(25:54):
you know, I consider myself self-taught, you know, when it comes to that space.
And that's one thing that, you know, just helped me be successful,
not only in that internship, but also in my role right now at IBM.
Just being able to go out there and find whatever information that I need and
(26:18):
just that yearning to just get knowledge.
You know, obviously having a background in computer science does help.
I'm not going to understate that.
It would probably even help me even be more successful. successful,
but just my ability to just think analytically and, you know, solve problems.
That was a big part of what helped me in the IT space.
(26:41):
And good stuff, Daniel. So I'm going to transition now to going from,
again, you did your internship, which was amazing.
I'm going to jump into after college. So graduating and then kind of that whole process.
And again, guys, again, if you have any questions as I'm going through this,
just, you know, flag it and I'll get to you guys. So, Darnell,
you graduated from college, right? Which is an exciting time.
(27:03):
Many of us on the call have been through it at least once. So, it's exciting.
And I think, you know, you're thinking, you know what? I know I'm good.
I expect, you know, because I know I'm good, I expect to be recruited,
you know, like a free agent, you know?
So, tell us, you graduated. Did IBM just come, you know, rolling out the red carpet for you?
Or what was the process like just from initial graduation to that season of,
(27:25):
I mean, were you employed right away?
Were you unemployed for a while? But tell us to that initial,
I guess, few months after graduation.
Well, I was employed for a while. As I said, when it comes to sometimes getting
employed or getting certain opportunities, once again, your status raises its ugly head.
(27:46):
And for some positions that I applied to.
One of the biggest mistakes I made was on the application form,
they said, would you require sponsorship either now or in the future or whatever it is?
And just by ticking that box, you tick yes.
(28:07):
Our recruiter never sees your resume.
So that was one of the biggest challenges at the time.
Although my girlfriend at the time, not my wife, we had planned on getting married.
At that point in time i just figured hey you know right now
you know i'm still on f1 status so
i'm just going to answer it that way but not knowing that that was such a big
(28:32):
hindrance as far as ibm goes i was looking for opportunities in the area i'm
in the shreveport area right now and once Once again, a friend,
he actually, he goes to, well, he graduated from Grambling last,
in December 2019.
(28:53):
So he was at Grambling. IBM went to a career fair. And he saw the opportunity.
And he said, I'm going to apply.
And he sent me a screenshot. He was like, oh, yeah, I remember you. You're back in the area.
So there's an opportunity. they sent me a screenshot and
kind of similar to kazim i just i applied
(29:14):
i got a call back at a series of interviews and they went well and one thing
that helped is preparation you always have to be prepared even if you you go
through a little you know ups and downs there may be certain.
Roadblocks you still have to persevere because
(29:37):
and and be prepared because for
that interview i actually have another friend he
become the science at grammar state and currently
he's a software engineer for chase and i
kind of spoke to him a little bit about his interview you know
and some of the questions that he asked because i like
to talk to as many people as possible ago you know try to get the
(30:00):
entire idea of everything and you know he gave me some advice you know I prepared
for the interview and when I got to the interview honestly the guy told me that
they would call me back but he gave the feeling like I would hire you right now if I could.
(30:21):
So that's that's kind of how that that whole
interview process went went very well and just
came from you know preparing and i cannot
stress that enough you just have to be prepared i could
have walked in like i saw these internships you know
i did some good things in the past but you still have to create another new
impression with that person that you're meeting so always be prepared kazim
(30:45):
talk spoke of the elevator pitch you have to have your elevator pitch and just
Just be prepared and always, always,
irrespective of your past and what happened before,
you always have to treat every new opportunity, you know, to the best of your ability.
Just be ready, be prepared, and just take advantage of it.
(31:06):
Well, Donald, your interview preparation process, I like how you call it out.
And I want you guys to understand.
So one thing he said that he spoke to as many people in the field,
right, that he could to get the experience.
You know, what was your interview like? And I think, fellas,
I think that's extremely valuable.
Asking them literally what questions did they ask you, right?
Ask them those questions.
(31:27):
And I think that, and again, just doing all the Google research,
I always ask students a trick question.
I say, what's the best university in the world?
And most of them are like Harvard, Oxford. I'm like, nah, it's Google University
and YouTube University.
That's the best ones in the world. And they happen to be free.
So, but these have to be critical to your research process when you're trying
(31:50):
to dominate that interview.
And here's another good nugget. So my sister who's in chemical engineering and
I've been kind of mentoring her through the process and she's had about three
or four internships actually.
And I tell her the litmus test, Test. Again, do your preparation, know your stuff.
But at some point, when you feel the interview making a shift from an interview
(32:13):
to more of a conversation, that means you and the person have connected.
And once you could connect to that potential, you know, decision maker,
and like Donald said, they told him, hey, I would hire you on the spot.
Like, that's when you know you're crushing it.
But again, initially it's awkward because, you know, you both have something
you want from the meeting, right?
(32:33):
But once you could stick with it and get to that point where it goes from just
a business meeting to a conversation and you guys connect, I'm telling you,
that is the game changer.
And as it was for Donner. Go ahead, Donner. If I want to add something else,
what also helped, and I mentioned that before, but I want to say it now.
Do personal projects you may they say that if you what's the saying again but basically.
(33:03):
If you can go out you can learn as much as you you
you can learn everything in the world but what
really makes the interview process so much better is
if you have a personal project that you worked on you can
show that hey i not only can go out
and get that information but i can apply it and
it could be something simple any problem that you
(33:24):
have in your daily life or just whatever it
may be just go out there and build something and
kind of understand the technologies that go on because also
on my interview you know he kind of the
interviewer kind of asked me about he asked
a question and i was able
to kind of apply to a project that you know
(33:46):
i created i went online I went on YouTube
and I'll be a hundred percent honest when I
finished doing the project I didn't understand
probably 70% 80% of
what happened but I went back you know I read some more and I kind of improved
it we talked about the iterative process and when I got to the interview I could
(34:09):
really have a conversation and talk to him about what I did and make sure you
understand what what you're doing as well,
along with having great understanding of like the fundamentals of programming,
because everyone will tell you like, what language should I learn?
Should I learn Python, C++, Java?
(34:30):
And people say, I can do 10 programming languages, but you know, they're all the same.
Just make sure you have a mastery of the basics.
You know, you understand understand the basics, like, you know,
conditional statements, you know, the classes, you know, the method is,
you know, all of these different things that, that go into all of the programming languages.
(34:54):
And that's, man, that's good stuff, Daniel. Yeah. That's, that's a very common
question. Which language should I learn? And I think I like the way you address
it, man. It's really about the structure.
And there's a phrase we used last week on our test call.
What was it? the language and that's not
a stick yeah i think i think again it's being able
to think right being able to think and you know what personally drew me to the
(35:15):
mathematical sciences was again solving problems right and computer science
just takes that to another level solving problems with the help of something
that could do more than my brain could do right so so i love that so you're in it now,
Donald, you've been at IBM for, actually before I go there.
So in that season of before you officially got that job, I know you tried a
(35:37):
few different things and we were talking every now and then.
And I want to say, guys, when you go to these seasons of whether you're unemployed,
which I've been myself a couple of times, it's very important to not be.
Not try to do it on your own. And he even said it, one of his friends gave him the recommendation.
And what I'm trying to say is, I tell people, you know, when we did Bible study
(35:58):
and stuff, isolation is the enemy's favorite game.
It works for Jordan and Kobe, but it might not work for us.
So it's good to have a team around you when you're trying to find a job,
trying to find some opportunity, have a team of people who could help guide and coach you.
Because honestly, guys, it could become depressing at times.
So I want to just ask Daniel, during that unemployment season,
(36:20):
man, what are some things you did to keep your spirits up and to just believe
in yourself that even though I'm getting a bunch of rejections,
my time will eventually come. Talk to us about that.
Well, exercise, exercise, meditation, you know, read my Bible,
maybe not as much as I should have, but, you know, did that as well.
(36:41):
And just, just practice. They say something like, Like if we're using sports
analogies, you know, you have that bench player and you wait for when your number gets called.
You just always have to be persistent and make sure that you're always trying to master your craft.
I could have sat around and be like, well, you know, I did all of this stuff
(37:02):
before and I'm not getting some of these callbacks because of,
you know, my status or whatever it is.
But you know you just have to constantly try
to evolve and as you
said and i read in a book
recently maybe it would have helped me a little more before i always try to
(37:24):
be independent you know people are dependent and who are independent and we
always look at independence as a good thing and it's it's better to be independent
than dependent but the best thing that you can be is It's interdependent,
you know, where you not only lean on other people,
but you not only you can do your own thing, but you can also lean on other people
(37:48):
and you have a great team around you.
But sorry to go off on a tangent, but back to what I was saying,
during that time, I just exercised, made sure that I was mentally,
physically fit, tried to keep my spirits up and just kept on working on my craft.
Man, that's good, man. And I think... I want to add something real quick when
(38:10):
it comes to the interview process.
Usually when you apply for a job, if you get to the state of having an interview,
that means that they look at your resume. So it's a good sign.
So what you got to do is that they're not going to go beyond your resume.
So you have to make sure that everything you've got on your resume,
when it comes to your experience, that you know enough. Because they usually don't go beyond that.
(38:33):
But that's what I thought because I had an interview before and I put,
you know, I was trying to apply for a programming job,
and I put on my resume that I worked for Java and I was totally surprised that
the guy was kept on asking me questions about Java.
And I'm not saying that I was super good, but I was not the best, best student in Java.
(38:55):
You see what I'm talking about? So when the guy kept on asking me, how do you do this?
So it was like, so I'm like, it was totally different from all the interviews that I had.
This was like more technical. Like the guy was doing the interview for me.
He was actually making sure, he was assuring that, you know,
if this guy said on his resume that he was a Java tutor, because I was a Java
(39:17):
tutor for the college that I was. I was helping kids.
I was like, okay, since you said you were a Java tutor, I'm going to ask you some stuff about Java.
So that's where I find out is that, and then I started, and I just understood
that now it's like when you apply for a job, when they call you for an interview, that's a good sign.
So don't stress too much about trying to find out about the position because
(39:39):
if you apply for a certain position, they have your resume.
So they're calling you based on your resume.
I'm not saying that don't go on Google and try to find out what your position
will be, but try to focus more about your experience.
Make sure that when you ask me a question, you know for a fact,
and that's going to save you a lot.
Man, that's some good feedback, Ulrich. I hear the guy say it this way.
(40:00):
Anything you put on your resume is fair game. game so
if you feel like you only scratch the surface but you
put it on there it's fair game you better be ready you better
be ready if it comes up so that's a good call out already and i
like what you also said if they call you in again that's the first that's the
first win so yeah that's some really good feedback i love it and i want to just
piggyback on what donnell said i i think guys you know control what you can
(40:24):
control so again he knew his what his status was He knew that he was applying
and wasn't getting stuff as fast, and he knew why.
But he also realized, well, I mean, yeah, it kind of sucks, but I could control
being in better health by exercising.
I could control my mind by reading and studying and practicing some more.
And I remember a couple of conversations with Darnell actually during that season,
(40:47):
and he would tell me he was working on learning something new.
And fellas, that is so important to not just say, okay, I'm stuck.
There's nothing I could do. There is always something we could do.
The last piece, I think, and he mentioned that his girlfriend,
the time who's now his wife, you know, was personally, that's been great for me.
My wife, even before we were married, just having that support system,
(41:11):
you know, I mean, it's been amazing.
It's been just having someone you could just talk to and just share,
hey, this is a challenge. But just knowing you have someone on your side and we use sports analogy.
I always tell people, teamwork makes the dream work. So again,
guys, always think about that team.
Who is that core team, your core team, because that will help you navigate those
(41:32):
storms in life. And believe me, the storms will come. I mean, they're going to come.
It's whether we can weather them and be strong enough to get to the other side. So.
I'm going to move on guys. Just a few more questions I have for Darnell.
I call this, the first one is, Darnell, so you're in technology now,
you're an admin and developer for Salesforce.
Where do you see yourself in the next, say, five years?
(41:52):
Yeah, so in the next five years, I'm not entirely sure which path I'm going
to go into because in Salesforce, you know, you have multiple paths.
But I'm looking at primarily maybe either being a Salesforce architect or maybe
going into more of the consultant path.
(42:12):
I'm not entirely sure yet, but those are two of my main options right now.
Okay, man. Sounds good. And then the last segment of this podcast,
guys, I call it passing it on to the next generation.
So I asked just a few questions and we're going to go through them pretty quickly.
So, Donald, what would your advice be for minorities or underrepresented students
(42:33):
seeking a career in technology? What advice would you give them?
Just be confident. Be confident in yourself.
Make sure that you have the right circle because it's who you know and who knows
you that can give you that recommendation.
And just make sure that you keep a positive mindset.
(42:55):
Mindset a lot of times i know that there
are challenges there are challenges as a minority
and they they are real but
that's not an excuse to not be successful so
just you know lean on other people there are
people in this space who have been
there and have done that and can definitely help
(43:17):
you out awesome man knowing what you
know now what would you have done differently
in college I think I touched on
earlier I'll be a little more interdependent not
try to be so you know headstrong like
you know hey I can do it you know you can have this feeling like I don't want
(43:38):
to depend too many too much on people but I'll be more interdependent I would
make sure I have I kind of grow my my contacts a little more I think I knew
the right people but even moving on After school,
it would help if I did a better job of just making sure I kept certain connections
(43:59):
and, you know, I was more outgoing.
And the main thing is I was afraid to fail at times. I'll be 100% honest.
In the programming space, they always say, like, you know, fail fast,
you know, fail often, you know, so you know, like this doesn't work.
(44:19):
So that's not a big thing. Just fail fast, fail often.
You know good stuff now just to put one more on that college thread what other
jobs did you do while you were a student just to give advice on for again for
those who in college just different jobs that you could do that will not be
too demanding but still let you have time to.
Make some money and also keep, you know, on your focus on your studies.
(44:42):
Well, I'll just speak on myself. When I was on campus, I become a resident assistant.
That was my first job, kind of like Kazim and Dilan kind of helped me on that path.
And I would say from that job, I learned a lot.
I learned a lot. And don't always go for what would be great if you can get a job in your field.
(45:06):
But remember I spoke about documentation and
also being able to collaborate with
people on teams those are some of the things that I had to develop when I was
a resident assistant because you always have to speak to people you always have
to write reports and that helped me in the IT space with my soft skills I was
also a research assistant I worked for two different professors and once again Again, another,
(45:33):
just a little tidbit, you always have to be willing to learn.
I remember there was this professor, he taught my class.
He said, well, both Dylan and Kazim were from Dr. DeRosa.
And, you know, I was a freshman. I said, hey, you know what,
(45:53):
if he has any, like, research, you know, positions, research assistant positions,
he said, do you know Java? I said, I can learn.
And he gave me a job. So, you know, you just have to kind of,
you know, try, just put yourself out there.
So I did that. And I also worked for another professor as a research assistant. Man, you were busy.
(46:17):
Yeah. At one point in time, I did, I had both a research assistant position
and a resident assistant position. Man, that's amazing.
The next question, what's a book or resource you'd recommend to our audience?
Hmm well i can kind of
tell well i'll say google is my is my official resource
(46:39):
but some books that i've been reading recently and i made a habit of trying
to read more is think and grow rich by napoleon hill and the seven habits of
highly effective people i can't remember the author but But those books,
yes, Coffee, yes.
(46:59):
And that book in particular kind of helped me with just my soft skills.
Because if you want to move forward in the technology space,
you have to be able to talk to people, collaborate, and just build up those
skills in addition to your programming skills.
(47:20):
And that really takes you to the next level. And that's my one thing that I
have been making a conscious effort on trying to work on.
Just make sure that I build my soft skills as I grow in this field.
Awesome, man. The last question, Donald, where can people connect with you?
(47:43):
Well, you can connect with me on LinkedIn and I'll also use myself as an example.
Guys, when you get your first job, when you land that job, please try to continue
to be active on LinkedIn.
I'll be honest. And I said, I like to use myself as an example.
(48:03):
I was on LinkedIn a lot before I actually got a job. And then when I got a job, I wasn't as active.
I had a whole bunch of requests and stuff like that because I was trying to
focus on the task at hand, which was being a better developer, getting my work done.
But you still have to make sure that you have to keep those connections active
(48:27):
and continue to look to make connections.
And that's something that I personally am trying to improve on,
Just making sure that I have the connections because this is just the start of my career.
I may stay at IBM. I may not stay at IBM.
Who knows? But it's good to have different connections and know different people
(48:48):
because not only can they help you if you want to move out of the country,
but they can also company, but they can help if you want to move up.
Good advice, man. Good advice. And I always tell people, so when you want to
grow. So I think LinkedIn is a phenomenal platform for growing in the career space.
So definitely, guys, invest some time, you know, get the profile up.
(49:11):
And personally, I'm in a similar situation to Darnell. I kind of was,
once I got a job, I kind of laid back.
But I'm actually getting really, getting ready to really ramp things up on LinkedIn again.
So most of you, I think, will be connected. You're going to see a lot of content coming up.
So I'm actually getting nerdy about LinkedIn, saying,
okay, what's my target audience, who I want to connect with and
(49:32):
it's a fun I like stuff like that so I want to encourage you guys
to do the same so fellas it's been it's been a good podcast down
there man thank you so much for coming on um I want to
give just a minute do we have any just last questions before I give the closing
statements any last questions from you guys or any last comments my question
a while ago was how do you guys uh manage but you said you use software development
(49:54):
right my thing was was, uh, how you guys, uh, how you collaborate with them.
Did you get that? Yes. That works.
So he said, how do we collaborate in a nutshell? That's what you ask him.
Are you asking Aaron, how do they collaborate code wise to make sure one person's
(50:17):
code doesn't get overwritten by someone else's? Is that what you're saying?
Not just overwritten, but negatively.
It's very easy for me to make bugs if I'm trying to go through the whole programming cycle.
Okay, I wrote this code. Now I'm testing it. Now that didn't work because it had this error.
We have a whole bunch of people going through that cycle. How do you guys make
(50:40):
sure that this guy's code works?
So this guy is going to work for putting together, uh, they call it.
If I'm writing, though, I'm not writing code more than what this guy with years.
So that might, they might be close. Oh, clash of the books. So okay.
I think I understand what you're saying. And if, if, if I don't answer it correctly,
(51:05):
just kind of come to answer your question.
You can always stop me, but right now, like in Salesforce,
what we're doing a lot of it is declarative so
we don't face as
many issues as like you know bugs as
when like when you write custom code but what
i will say is that when you develop in
(51:27):
custom code you have to understand that you have git you
know you have some repository and usually you have
code that that works right and
usually you have to do like a jet pool you pull it down to to your local machine
and then you make changes and all of that and then you commit and you make your
(51:48):
changes or whatever it is and that's kind of how you can get an idea of well
my code kind of mess stuff up and.
Because you kind of working on your local branch and you have to try to fix
it before you actually push it back to, you know, the master and merge it with
the actual code that works.
(52:11):
And I think there's some value I want to make sure we capture here.
So some people might hear this and wonder what on earth is Git? Could you speak to that?
So it's just a repository central place where you can keep all of your code.
And usually like you have, you know, the master where you have the actual code
that works and then you have like your local version of it.
(52:36):
Now in Salesforce, like for us and other places, I guess it's do the same thing.
You, you never develop directly on what people are using. So you have like a
place that, you know, you call production, what your end users are actually using.
And when you're developing, usually pass your code or whatever it is through various environments.
(53:03):
You may have like a sandbox where you, you are free to do whatever you want.
If you break something, nobody's going to stress about it.
I mean, your managers are going to get mad because you know,
that's just your sandbox where you can play, where you can do whatever you want.
You want to do, then you, you'll have to like move those changes to another environment,
(53:24):
like a UAT environment where you do user acceptance testing,
just to see if all of your, all of the functionality works and usually in the
environment, you may have actual data that you have in your production,
environment to see if whatever changes that you make, sometimes they may work
(53:45):
in the sandbox and then when you test them with actual data.
Sometimes it does work. So you have to try to figure out all those things before
you move it to production where people like me and you actually get to use the
things that you created.
So you should have a lot of different steps where you have to deploy.
(54:07):
We call them deployments between different environments before you get to actual production code.
Man, this is good. And again, fellas, you know, that's the value I spoke of, right? Right.
Because, again, these are things we typically don't learn at the college level.
I mean, a professor might mention it, but until you actually do it,
it just seems very vague.
Right. So I remember when I was in my internship with a company where I currently
(54:30):
work, that was actually when I learned about the concept of multiple environments.
So we have production, we have tests, we have dev. So, again,
the idea is you don't try something for the first time in your live production
environment because that could
cost the company millions of dollars if you make a big mistake. thing.
So, and I think it has an impact for life, guys.
You know, when you hear an idea, you hear someone said, oh, this worked for me.
(54:53):
I don't think you just do it right away. You implement it in small chunks,
you test it. And if it works, you implement it some more.
If it doesn't work for you, maybe you move off. Some people are not breakfast
people, for example, whereas I see you down there, whereas others feel like
if I don't have breakfast, like me, my day is having a rough start, right?
But some people could not eat breakfast and they could be good for
(55:15):
the day but you test it find what works for you then you
optimize and make it better and that's how we develop as
you know as men and as people and become more productive back to
you donnell yeah i want to add something before you ask
another question and even when you do deployments one thing that you have to
always be conscious of not just in the coding sphere but you know in your in
(55:38):
your professional career is always make sure that you document things because
Because if you're making a deployment and...
You have a dependency and you don't you don't document all of your components,
trust me somebody's going to call you at whatever
time at night and say that hey i'm trying to deploy this this
(56:00):
is not working i'm not sure why it's not working did
you forget some of your components or did
you document everything properly and it saves you
a lot and i can tell you a lot of
headache and some of the projects i worked on
were not even some of the deployments that
i have done were not as big as some
(56:22):
other people some deployments that other people have done so please
make sure that you document things and you always keep track of whatever changes
you make i'm so happy you brought that up down here guys i want to go a step
further i think because because that was something I regret I didn't do enough
of when I was in Grambling at college and beyond,
(56:44):
beyond just code. Actually, I remember we had a project on the project.
We had put together a computerized personal trainer as one of our projects.
And we were called to present that project about maybe a year later.
And I had no idea what the code was. I mean, I had formatted my computer a few
times, so not documenting.
I mean, we have to try to fire something back up on the fly.
We were like three days when it took us probably two months to do the first one.
(57:05):
So it was tough. So definitely, man, you want to document as much as possible.
And even from a business perspective, I mean, with the stuff I do,
the academic tutoring and mentoring for people in young people in STEM,
I mean, I've been doing this thing for a minute and I realized that back in
Grambling, I was already doing it, but I did not document as much as I do now.
So I think advice for you guys definitely is to document the journey.
(57:30):
All right. It sounds like we're good. So again, folks, it has been a pleasure, Donald.
I wish you all the best. And just as a reminder, as we're closing again,
the whole idea of this podcast is really just to help bridge the diversity gap in technology.
Minority and underrepresented students, I mean, when you look at most technology
companies, they just aren't there, or technology departments.
There's very little representation. So we want to help be part of the solution,
(57:53):
of course, with problem solvers, most of us are in the technology space.
So definitely, that's the vision. So Donald, thanks for sharing your expertise.
It was definitely a pleasure having you on i wish you all
the best in your in your career and also the
other things you're doing i know you have the photography business also which we
didn't really get to touch on maybe that's the next podcast but yeah
it's it's really a pleasure and i'm proud of you as a you know guys
(58:14):
it's really about passing it on it's about
passing it on and i remember when donnell came in
man you know his freshman year me and dylan were mentoring him
i remember a conversation where we said man we need
to give this guy a job me and dylan had a conversation taxation and
my wizard executing and i mean to me
the most beautiful thing guys is the fact that when you
(58:34):
point to people and they go further than you've gone and that's what i mean
my first internship was with lsu actually in a battle rouge donnell's one of
his first internships was if ibm he went further my first corporate america
job was if a fortune 50 company right right?
Donald joined IBM, a Fortune 50 company. I think it's actually Fortune 30.
(58:57):
So, you know, even Dylan, I think it took me about a year to become a senior with an assistant.
It took Dylan, I think, six months, right? So as we point to people and we share
what we know, we have them shorten the learning curve for them to get to the
next level. And that's what it's about.
Because when you guys win, I mean, I win too. That's why I look at it.
I win because my broader vision, guys, is to one day, I want to be one day as
(59:21):
an entrepreneur, career person, I want to be making business moves that are
so big, I need partners with me.
And who better to be a partner with me than someone that I've been investing
in and seeing them go on the journey.
And if you guys do the same thing, all of a sudden we see a massive network
just rising up of folks who are doing what we're doing, who have passions like
(59:44):
we have, and who are all about making a difference and not just a dollar.
So now I'm off my soapbox. It was been a fun time and hopefully we get to reconnect.
Music.
Music.
(00:12):
Welcome to the IT Connect podcast, a movement to connect minority students with
professionals in the IT industry and therefore bridge the diversity gap in technology.
Let me now introduce our guest speaker for today who I'm really excited to have on this call. So Mr.
Darnell Williams is currently a Salesforce application developer who works for IBM.
(00:34):
He's certified in the Salesforce platform development as an admin and developer.
He graduated from Grammarly State University in 2017 with a double major,
Electronics Engineering Technology and Mathematics and Physics.
During his grambling career, he served as the president of NSBE,
as well as vice president of the Math and Computer Science Club.
(00:55):
Daniel has done internships with Apple and Centrelink and has been a phenomenal
talent, phenomenal, I'll call him, when it comes to the academic technology space.
So please join me in welcoming Daniel Williams to the IT Connect podcast.
Podcast. Daniel, welcome to the podcast.
Yeah, Kazem. Thanks for having me.
Man, we're glad to have you here. So Daniel, we're going to get right to it.
(01:18):
In your bio, I mentioned that you were a Salesforce developer.
So my very first question for you, Daniel, is I call it a snapshot of today.
So just tell us what is your role at IBM and what exactly that you do?
Okay, so as Tazim said, I'm a Salesforce platform developer.
And basically what I do is develop and deploy solutions for various clients.
(01:41):
And that is it in a nutshell. So in certain instances, I have to create custom interfaces.
I'm using the programmatic capabilities of the Lightning platform.
So that's like using Apex. That's what we use to code more on the back end.
Or I'm using JavaScript and HTML, CSS for styling when doing stuff on the front end.
(02:05):
Okay. So you mentioned Apex, HTML. So I think those of us who,
I guess most of these guys have an idea of what that is.
I wasn't familiar with Apex that much. Could you tell us just a little bit more
about what exactly Apex is for someone who's probably never heard it before?
Okay. So Apex is kind of like the language that Salesforce uses more like on
the backend. end, it is 19, I'll say 95 to 98% Java.
(02:32):
So if you have a background in Java and you understand the Java syntax is,
I'll say it's exactly the same, just with one or two tidbits at the end there.
Okay. And, um, what would a typical day be like for you in this role with IBM?
Okay. So we work in the agile scrub methodology.
(02:53):
So basically we work in, well, on the last two projects I've worked on,
we've worked in three-week sprints and in Agile you do two to like four-week
sprints, usually more like two weeks. weeks.
So a day-to-day would be you start off in the morning, you have a meeting with your team,
(03:14):
basically talk about, you know, what you have done the previous day,
what you plan on doing for that day, as well as, you know, talk about any blockers
that you may be experiencing that's hindering your progress.
So after you have your daily stand-up, that's what we call them,
you just go in and you you start
(03:35):
doing work so you may have let's
say user stories you have a bunch of different user stories that you
select maybe you've been working on one already you it
entails a lot of thinking first of all yeah you have to think of hey this client
has a problem they put it down in different user stories and you have to identify
(03:58):
the problem in that user the story and find out the best way of,
you know, solving that problem.
So that's all I do all the problem solve on this project.
Because the client does not want to deal with maintaining code so much,
they want us to take more of declarative approach.
(04:19):
That means like using more of the drag and drop functionalities of the Salesforce
platform, because Salesforce also allows you to build solutions as quickly as
possible and minimize the amount of code that you have to use.
But there are instances where a solution that the client requests needs some
(04:40):
custom logic or some custom code that's not already pre-built.
So on this project, I do more declarative programming, but it can easily jump
up to Apex code and you can really get into the nitty-gritty of actually writing a lot of code.
Man, that's some good stuff, Donald. And I like that you call out the agile framework.
(05:03):
So for you guys, the agile methodology is something you're going to hear a lot
about if you haven't heard it yet.
It's definitely, it's been around for a while, but it's getting some more momentum.
I guess I'll just ask a follow-up question, Donald.
I guess, what was it like for you kind of first getting exposed to the agile framework?
And just tell us a little bit more about that framework. I know you call out
a few things like the stories and the sprints, but just give us a little bit
(05:24):
more on how you first started. And if it was an easy learning curve,
getting into Agile, having not really done it at all, probably in college.
I've never done it before, but I did a lot of research.
And that's one thing that we may talk about more as we move on for the podcast,
but just being prepared, you know, it's always good to be prepared.
So the Agile framework, it's an iterative process, right?
(05:49):
Right. So usually before we have like the waterfall process where you have a
project and you look at it from start to finish, start to end,
and you go through that entire process in Agile.
Yes, you have a project plan, but you also break it up into smaller,
(06:09):
more bite-sized pieces called sprints. And as you go day by day,
for example, we have the daily stand up.
You kind of see your progress where you are and then you adjust and it's more flexible.
So after this sprint, I say we did.
We're expecting to do 10% of the project, realize we did 15%,
(06:31):
then we can kind of micromanage and plan accordingly and change things.
So agile, as the name suggests, just makes you more flexible,
more agile, so that you can better go through the development cycle and ensure that you deliver.
So you can notice that, hey, you're a little behind.
(06:53):
Hey, we need to do this and that. We're a little ahead. head,
okay, maybe we can spend some more time on testing and so on and so forth.
That's great, Donald. Guys, I hope you guys, again, we'll be recording this
so you could go back and listen to it.
But I think that is some real value for aspiring technology students, right?
Because again, what he described was the waterfall model where you can have
your requirements up front where here's what we want to build.
(07:15):
We have X number of months to build it. And we're just going from start to end, as he mentioned.
But again, things change daily, man, in the technology world.
I mean, things are always, there's always change.
And I think it's, again, definitely, if you guys are the one thing out of this session so far,
be sure to just research more about the agile framework versus the waterfall
framework and understand how that movement is impacting the technology landscape
(07:40):
and the job landscape as well.
Because I mean, I see a lot of job descriptions where that is a preference for
you to be at least familiar with the agile methodology.
So thank you very much for that, Daniel. So, we're going to move into a bit
of a back in time and talk about your history a little bit.
I'm sure anyone who heard you speak will say, okay, I hear an accent. So, we'll get into that.
(08:02):
So, Donna, I'm going to ask you what I believe is the hardest question in any job interview.
Tell me about yourself and where you're from. Okay.
Well, I grew up on the beautiful island of Dominica.
Dylan is also from Dominica. We're actually from the same community.
We knew each other growing up and all of that.
(08:24):
So growing up, I always loved nature and I loved tech. That's the two things
that I've kind of been around.
And I have to thank my parents for that because I remember as young As young
as six years old, it was around 97, 96, maybe I was five, 96, 97.
That's when my parents kind of bought us our first computer.
(08:49):
We had a computer, Windows 95.
It was very expensive. I didn't really understand, you know,
money and all those things at the time.
It's only after I realized, oh, they really invested a lot in us.
Us so having that first computer it
was just mind-blowing you know it was intriguing on
my LinkedIn I said that if you look up my
(09:11):
LinkedIn profile I said that my first electric shock was what kind of sparked
my interest in in tech that also played a role in me playing around with stuff
I was fortunate that you know it wasn't worse but I've just always been surrounded
by tech and And also my siblings,
some of my siblings are engineers. They work in the medical field.
(09:33):
I have cousins, other family members who are, you know, doctors and all that stuff.
So I've always been exposed to technology and tech, even from a very young age.
And as a kid, I would always have like just crazy conversations with like my,
(09:54):
my parents and my, my brothers and about all types of things like going to the
moon and, you know, different tech and planes and just everything you could think of.
So I'll say my family had a very big impact on me choosing this field and this path.
I love it, man. Nature and technology. And as you were describing the impact
(10:16):
your parents had, I almost felt like, you know, you start to sound like Elon
Musk a little bit, you know, like the parents put that incubator,
which allows you to really get that creativity.
And that's something I want to call out because I think parents,
especially, that's something they have to be conscious about.
Putting that environment for your children, even your niece or your nephew,
(10:37):
that's something I'm actually trying to get more into. How do we cultivate that environment?
So So from early, we sparked that curiosity where people were like,
you know what? This is interesting to me. What, how does this work?
And hopefully, hopefully you don't have to get shocked, but hopefully we could get to doing that.
So I want to get into, you know, how you got from the beautiful nature island
(10:58):
of Dominica to Grambling.
Okay. So let's now move on to Darnell.
Tell us about your decision to leave the beautiful nature island of Dominica
to go to lovely lovely Louisiana, to get a bachelor's degree?
Well, it was actually an easy decision, way easier than you may think,
(11:21):
because I was in Dominica, and I wanted to further my education.
I'd done two years of schooling back home, and there was actually a stop before I came to Louisiana.
I actually went to Morocco for two years, where i got a chance to you know kind
of learn some french learn a little bit of arabic and,
(11:44):
let's just say after two years things were not the path to get where i wanted
to get to it wasn't how i envisioned it so right there i decided to apply for gambling,
And in the space of like just that summer, I went to get my visa, do all of that stuff.
(12:05):
And then I went to gambling in 2013.
So international students talk about a culture shock, right?
How it's difficult leaving home and going to just a foreign place.
And when I got to gambling, as I said, preparation.
I already looked at the Google Maps and all of that. I was still kind of surprised
(12:28):
by all the trees, but it kind of felt like in the middle of nowhere.
And as I said, I spent two years in North Africa.
So for me, it was like I already got the biggest culture shock of my life previously.
So coming to Grameen was a relatively easy transition.
(12:50):
I was closer to home, although I was pretty far away from home.
And starting off at Gremlin, it helped having friends, having people that you
knew. So first, right off the bat, as I said, I knew Dylan.
He's on the call and he's one of the people that kind of helped me get accustomed to Gremlin.
He introduced me to different people like Kazim and other people,
(13:15):
Caribbean people that he associated with.
And these individuals.
Played a huge role in me just making a
smooth and quick transition into not
just my classes and you know registering and
all that stuff but you know getting jobs and getting different you know opportunities
(13:35):
on campus so thanks again Tessian and Dylan so down there you hit something
when I well I'll give a story first you mentioned about the middle of nowhere
so when I when I first landed in Shreveport in a route to Grambling.
My buddies told me, man, it's like a country, there's not much around.
So I got to Shreveport, which is about an hour, five minutes away.
(13:59):
And I saw Circuit City, which is no longer existing, but back then it was a thing.
I'm seeing Circuit City, I'm seeing big buildings. I'm like,
my guys are, you know, them guys are tripping, man. It's not that bad.
So I get into a taxi, me and a young lady, We shared a taxi,
which was like 50 bucks a head. I was like, oh my God.
So we get into the taxi. I'm seeing big buildings. I fell asleep.
(14:22):
When I woke up, all I see is trees and bush.
I'm like, whoa, is he trying to kidnap me or something, man?
I got no money. I'm just saying.
So that was a fun, my fun story. And when I finally go to the campus,
I'm like, oh, okay. My buddies did not lie.
It is what it is. But of course, shout out to Grambling State.
I thought it was a great institution and we both had a great time.
(14:45):
We both were able to, all of us, when they actually were able to do amazing
things, even though that was our starting point.
So that was awesome. So Donald, talk about your, let's talk about the financial part.
So my, my philosophy is, you know, I really promote the idea of a debt-free degree.
That's something I'm really big on. So tell me about, you know,
the financial aspect of your decision-making as far as government,
(15:06):
government is concerned.
Well, you know that our government, you know, they offer, you know,
full scholarships and partial scholarships to go to different universities in the States.
And Grambling was one that I identified where I could possibly get,
you know, a full scholarship to attend.
I also looked up their programs.
(15:29):
I saw that their engineering technology program was accredited.
So for me, it was almost like, well, I know, you know, someone who's over there
already. So that kind of helped with the transition.
It's an accredited program.
And I like what I saw online. And I was going to get an opportunity to not have to pay student loans.
(15:55):
So that was honestly one of the biggest factors in my decision.
Agent. Man, that's good. I think some things you mentioned, I want to really call out.
You know, you had people who had been there before. And I tell students all
the time, if you're thinking about going to an institution, think about your network.
Do you know anybody who's either done that major or gone to the school you're
thinking about going to?
(16:16):
Then you thought about the finances. You said, okay, there's full scholarships,
which would make it easier for me. I wouldn't need loans.
So that was part of your decision-making criteria as well.
The third one was accreditation. You look to see that the program you were going
to do was actually accredited.
And I want to just say something that I really hope aspiring STEM professionals understand.
(16:37):
It's really not about where you
go. If you're in STEM, you could go to any school once it's accredited.
And once you have a decent GPA and you put in the work, you will get jobs.
Because the demand for STEM jobs is higher than the actual supply for those
jobs. So I love your decision-making format and the logic that went into deciding
to attend Grambling State.
(16:58):
What challenges, Daniel, would you say you experienced while at GSU?
Initially, I would say, as I said before, I didn't have too many challenges.
I was very fortunate, if I have to be 100% honest.
I got over there. I was expecting a full scholarship.
(17:22):
And if you have not listened to Kazim's podcast on, what's the name of that
podcast? I can't remember.
He spoke about some of the difficulties that he faced. I never faced any of those difficulties.
Everything that I expected kind of just happened.
One of the challenges I would say that happened throughout my time at GSU was
(17:46):
just, and it wasn't specifically related to GSU, it was specifically related to my status,
is that certain opportunities that you try to reach out for,
whether it be additional scholarships or maybe internships or certain job opportunities,
you see them advertised and then you see the big, You have to be a U.S.
(18:11):
Citizen or whatever to enroll or be accepted for whatever program that may be.
And that was one of the biggest challenges, just my status and being the person that I am.
I'm always looking for ways to try to improve myself and try to get exposure.
(18:32):
And when you apply for something and you're very excited and then you get shut
down, not because of, you know, your ability or anything like that,
but just because, hey, where you're from, you know, that is,
that's tough.
It really, you know, demoralizes you and it's hard to overcome.
(18:56):
Man, I'm happy you touched on that. And you're right, that is definitely the
number one challenge, I think, international students face when they're trying to get opportunities.
That whole must be a U.S. citizen, permanent resident. And I do want,
if any international students listening, I think it's also an opportunity to
really realize that, number one, you have to work probably 10 times harder than
everybody else because you have so much less opportunity available.
(19:18):
But again, I think it really speaks to your resilience and willing to press
on. And again, we're going to get into this next.
You were able to still find opportunities despite those challenges.
So let's talk about internships. Tell us about how you approached the whole
internship finding process and ultimately how you ended up landing an internship with Apple.
(19:40):
Okay so once again it comes
down to the people you know
and the people that know you and
you know your circle in a nutshell i remember on thursday i said that to the
guys on the who joined the test call that if you guys are on kazim that's a
(20:05):
good person to have around because you know And we always kind of,
you know, push on the right path and let you know about opportunities.
And when I got that internship, it was actually Kazim who reached out to me. Well, let me go back.
It was Kazim who actually reached out to me and said, you know what?
There's an opportunity for this Apple scholarship and internship.
(20:27):
And you should really try it out.
And yes, he told me about the opportunity.
Opportunity and I could have easily said, well, Apple,
you know, I'm just a little old me, you know, maybe just lie about it and say,
you know, hey, I applied and, you know, I just didn't get the opportunity.
(20:50):
I went through, I filled out the application, I did all of the steps and there was,
was after the initial application there
was an interview process so i
got shortlisted to the people who actually
got interviewed and actually was two interviews there was a kind of like a behavioral
(21:10):
one and then you know more of a technical one and eventually i got the call
back that i was one of the few people who were selected you know for that internship
and it just stemmed And from Kazin,
just send me a link and say, hey, you know what?
You can apply for this opportunity, something that I wasn't even aware of.
(21:33):
And after he brought that to my attention, I also had to act on it and go through
the process and prepare myself.
And that's kind of how that whole thing went.
And I, in that summer, summer of 2016, I went out to California.
I had a great opportunity to, although I felt it's intimidating some of the
(21:57):
people that you happen to meet, Because at the end of the day,
we're all gifted, we're all talented,
but there are some really incredible people out there.
But even if you don't get, you may say, hey, this person may possibly beat me
out to get whatever opportunity or whatever.
You always have to think positively. Hey, I can learn something from this person.
(22:20):
You know, I can learn from this experience.
And that's what you should always try to do. You always try to learn from all
of your experiences because, you know, that will help you.
You really kind of, yes, you're in a race against other people,
but you are in a race of yourself.
You know, you're trying to be the best version of yourself.
So I just took that as an opportunity to learn as much as I could, be a sponge and learn.
(22:48):
Look at me now. It got me an opportunity to land a job at IBM.
And that's amazing, Daniel. And you touched on so many different things.
I actually want to pull the thread on some more. But I want to add some context, guys.
So, you know, Daniel mentioned, I told him about the opportunity.
And that opportunity for those listening who are attending HBCUs,
it was an opportunity that came with partnership with the Thurgood Marshall College Fund.
(23:13):
And they have some partnership with Apple. I just want to backtrack a little bit.
When I first heard about the Thurgood Marshall College Fund,
I wasn't grumbling. The first time I ever heard about it, I missed it.
I forgot to connect with the organization. Then the following year,
when I heard they were coming to campus, I was on a mission.
And I'm like, I need to connect to those people.
When they came to campus, when I was in the front row seat, I connected with
(23:36):
one of the main recruiters. To this day, I have her as a friend on LinkedIn,
which I have every now and then.
And then I encouraged guys like Daniel to join the organization as well.
And I'll never forget, the morning I had my interview for the program,
not for the Apple thing, but for the overall program, I think I had the very
first time sort of available.
It was like 8 o'clock in the morning or 7.30 in the morning.
Did my interview, came in well-dressed, suit and tie.
(23:59):
And I kid you not, literally, as I'm leaving the room, I'm seeing the next interview
person, Darnell, right? Right.
So I said that to say, man, you know, it's, it's really, it really brings joy
to my heart when I see people who I point to actually take action.
And he said, you must take action.
If people give you the information, but you don't execute on it, there'll be nothing.
(24:22):
And I like what he said. He said he could have been intimidated and,
you know, he could have said, you know, man, it's a big apple, but he took a shot.
You know, there's a phrase in America right now, shoot your shot. Right.
I mean, he took a shot. And I like how Michael Jordan said it,
you know, you could never make the shots you don't take.
(24:42):
You could never make the shots you don't take. Man, take it.
So, I mean, try some things, man. Try. Try to get out there.
You're going to miss some.
It's part of the game. But, again, you don't need to make all of them.
You just need to make the right ones.
So, one thing I want to talk about. You were a math and engineering major going
for an IT internship. How did you overcome those odds to not only get the internship,
(25:07):
but to thrive once you got to California?
Well, in software development, it's all about, you know, thinking and solving problems.
Now, one disadvantage was that I was not a CS major, as you said.
I did one, maybe two computer programming classes.
(25:31):
One was in C++ one was in actually I did that C++ class after it was actually in Visual Basic but I.
To be successful, your best friend has to be, one of your best friends has to be Google.
You know, in this day and age, you have access to so many resources that,
(25:54):
you know, I consider myself self-taught, you know, when it comes to that space.
And that's one thing that, you know, just helped me be successful,
not only in that internship, but also in my role right now at IBM.
Just being able to go out there and find whatever information that I need and
(26:18):
just that yearning to just get knowledge.
You know, obviously having a background in computer science does help.
I'm not going to understate that.
It would probably even help me even be more successful. successful,
but just my ability to just think analytically and, you know, solve problems.
That was a big part of what helped me in the IT space.
(26:41):
And good stuff, Daniel. So I'm going to transition now to going from,
again, you did your internship, which was amazing.
I'm going to jump into after college. So graduating and then kind of that whole process.
And again, guys, again, if you have any questions as I'm going through this,
just, you know, flag it and I'll get to you guys. So, Darnell,
you graduated from college, right? Which is an exciting time.
(27:03):
Many of us on the call have been through it at least once. So, it's exciting.
And I think, you know, you're thinking, you know what? I know I'm good.
I expect, you know, because I know I'm good, I expect to be recruited,
you know, like a free agent, you know?
So, tell us, you graduated. Did IBM just come, you know, rolling out the red carpet for you?
Or what was the process like just from initial graduation to that season of,
(27:25):
I mean, were you employed right away?
Were you unemployed for a while? But tell us to that initial,
I guess, few months after graduation.
Well, I was employed for a while. As I said, when it comes to sometimes getting
employed or getting certain opportunities, once again, your status raises its ugly head.
(27:46):
And for some positions that I applied to.
One of the biggest mistakes I made was on the application form,
they said, would you require sponsorship either now or in the future or whatever it is?
And just by ticking that box, you tick yes.
(28:07):
Our recruiter never sees your resume.
So that was one of the biggest challenges at the time.
Although my girlfriend at the time, not my wife, we had planned on getting married.
At that point in time i just figured hey you know right now
you know i'm still on f1 status so
i'm just going to answer it that way but not knowing that that was such a big
(28:32):
hindrance as far as ibm goes i was looking for opportunities in the area i'm
in the shreveport area right now and once Once again, a friend,
he actually, he goes to, well, he graduated from Grambling last,
in December 2019.
(28:53):
So he was at Grambling. IBM went to a career fair. And he saw the opportunity.
And he said, I'm going to apply.
And he sent me a screenshot. He was like, oh, yeah, I remember you. You're back in the area.
So there's an opportunity. they sent me a screenshot and
kind of similar to kazim i just i applied
(29:14):
i got a call back at a series of interviews and they went well and one thing
that helped is preparation you always have to be prepared even if you you go
through a little you know ups and downs there may be certain.
Roadblocks you still have to persevere because
(29:37):
and and be prepared because for
that interview i actually have another friend he
become the science at grammar state and currently
he's a software engineer for chase and i
kind of spoke to him a little bit about his interview you know
and some of the questions that he asked because i like
to talk to as many people as possible ago you know try to get the
(30:00):
entire idea of everything and you know he gave me some advice you know I prepared
for the interview and when I got to the interview honestly the guy told me that
they would call me back but he gave the feeling like I would hire you right now if I could.
(30:21):
So that's that's kind of how that that whole
interview process went went very well and just
came from you know preparing and i cannot
stress that enough you just have to be prepared i could
have walked in like i saw these internships you know
i did some good things in the past but you still have to create another new
impression with that person that you're meeting so always be prepared kazim
(30:45):
talk spoke of the elevator pitch you have to have your elevator pitch and just
Just be prepared and always, always,
irrespective of your past and what happened before,
you always have to treat every new opportunity, you know, to the best of your ability.
Just be ready, be prepared, and just take advantage of it.
(31:06):
Well, Donald, your interview preparation process, I like how you call it out.
And I want you guys to understand.
So one thing he said that he spoke to as many people in the field,
right, that he could to get the experience.
You know, what was your interview like? And I think, fellas,
I think that's extremely valuable.
Asking them literally what questions did they ask you, right?
Ask them those questions.
(31:27):
And I think that, and again, just doing all the Google research,
I always ask students a trick question.
I say, what's the best university in the world?
And most of them are like Harvard, Oxford. I'm like, nah, it's Google University
and YouTube University.
That's the best ones in the world. And they happen to be free.
So, but these have to be critical to your research process when you're trying
(31:50):
to dominate that interview.
And here's another good nugget. So my sister who's in chemical engineering and
I've been kind of mentoring her through the process and she's had about three
or four internships actually.
And I tell her the litmus test, Test. Again, do your preparation, know your stuff.
But at some point, when you feel the interview making a shift from an interview
(32:13):
to more of a conversation, that means you and the person have connected.
And once you could connect to that potential, you know, decision maker,
and like Donald said, they told him, hey, I would hire you on the spot.
Like, that's when you know you're crushing it.
But again, initially it's awkward because, you know, you both have something
you want from the meeting, right?
(32:33):
But once you could stick with it and get to that point where it goes from just
a business meeting to a conversation and you guys connect, I'm telling you,
that is the game changer.
And as it was for Donner. Go ahead, Donner. If I want to add something else,
what also helped, and I mentioned that before, but I want to say it now.
Do personal projects you may they say that if you what's the saying again but basically.
(33:03):
If you can go out you can learn as much as you you
you can learn everything in the world but what
really makes the interview process so much better is
if you have a personal project that you worked on you can
show that hey i not only can go out
and get that information but i can apply it and
it could be something simple any problem that you
(33:24):
have in your daily life or just whatever it
may be just go out there and build something and
kind of understand the technologies that go on because also
on my interview you know he kind of the
interviewer kind of asked me about he asked
a question and i was able
to kind of apply to a project that you know
(33:46):
i created i went online I went on YouTube
and I'll be a hundred percent honest when I
finished doing the project I didn't understand
probably 70% 80% of
what happened but I went back you know I read some more and I kind of improved
it we talked about the iterative process and when I got to the interview I could
(34:09):
really have a conversation and talk to him about what I did and make sure you
understand what what you're doing as well,
along with having great understanding of like the fundamentals of programming,
because everyone will tell you like, what language should I learn?
Should I learn Python, C++, Java?
(34:30):
And people say, I can do 10 programming languages, but you know, they're all the same.
Just make sure you have a mastery of the basics.
You know, you understand understand the basics, like, you know,
conditional statements, you know, the classes, you know, the method is,
you know, all of these different things that, that go into all of the programming languages.
(34:54):
And that's, man, that's good stuff, Daniel. Yeah. That's, that's a very common
question. Which language should I learn? And I think I like the way you address
it, man. It's really about the structure.
And there's a phrase we used last week on our test call.
What was it? the language and that's not
a stick yeah i think i think again it's being able
to think right being able to think and you know what personally drew me to the
(35:15):
mathematical sciences was again solving problems right and computer science
just takes that to another level solving problems with the help of something
that could do more than my brain could do right so so i love that so you're in it now,
Donald, you've been at IBM for, actually before I go there.
So in that season of before you officially got that job, I know you tried a
(35:37):
few different things and we were talking every now and then.
And I want to say, guys, when you go to these seasons of whether you're unemployed,
which I've been myself a couple of times, it's very important to not be.
Not try to do it on your own. And he even said it, one of his friends gave him the recommendation.
And what I'm trying to say is, I tell people, you know, when we did Bible study
(35:58):
and stuff, isolation is the enemy's favorite game.
It works for Jordan and Kobe, but it might not work for us.
So it's good to have a team around you when you're trying to find a job,
trying to find some opportunity, have a team of people who could help guide and coach you.
Because honestly, guys, it could become depressing at times.
So I want to just ask Daniel, during that unemployment season,
(36:20):
man, what are some things you did to keep your spirits up and to just believe
in yourself that even though I'm getting a bunch of rejections,
my time will eventually come. Talk to us about that.
Well, exercise, exercise, meditation, you know, read my Bible,
maybe not as much as I should have, but, you know, did that as well.
(36:41):
And just, just practice. They say something like, Like if we're using sports
analogies, you know, you have that bench player and you wait for when your number gets called.
You just always have to be persistent and make sure that you're always trying to master your craft.
I could have sat around and be like, well, you know, I did all of this stuff
(37:02):
before and I'm not getting some of these callbacks because of,
you know, my status or whatever it is.
But you know you just have to constantly try
to evolve and as you
said and i read in a book
recently maybe it would have helped me a little more before i always try to
(37:24):
be independent you know people are dependent and who are independent and we
always look at independence as a good thing and it's it's better to be independent
than dependent but the best thing that you can be is It's interdependent,
you know, where you not only lean on other people,
but you not only you can do your own thing, but you can also lean on other people
(37:48):
and you have a great team around you.
But sorry to go off on a tangent, but back to what I was saying,
during that time, I just exercised, made sure that I was mentally,
physically fit, tried to keep my spirits up and just kept on working on my craft.
Man, that's good, man. And I think... I want to add something real quick when
(38:10):
it comes to the interview process.
Usually when you apply for a job, if you get to the state of having an interview,
that means that they look at your resume. So it's a good sign.
So what you got to do is that they're not going to go beyond your resume.
So you have to make sure that everything you've got on your resume,
when it comes to your experience, that you know enough. Because they usually don't go beyond that.
(38:33):
But that's what I thought because I had an interview before and I put,
you know, I was trying to apply for a programming job,
and I put on my resume that I worked for Java and I was totally surprised that
the guy was kept on asking me questions about Java.
And I'm not saying that I was super good, but I was not the best, best student in Java.
(38:55):
You see what I'm talking about? So when the guy kept on asking me, how do you do this?
So it was like, so I'm like, it was totally different from all the interviews that I had.
This was like more technical. Like the guy was doing the interview for me.
He was actually making sure, he was assuring that, you know,
if this guy said on his resume that he was a Java tutor, because I was a Java
(39:17):
tutor for the college that I was. I was helping kids.
I was like, okay, since you said you were a Java tutor, I'm going to ask you some stuff about Java.
So that's where I find out is that, and then I started, and I just understood
that now it's like when you apply for a job, when they call you for an interview, that's a good sign.
So don't stress too much about trying to find out about the position because
(39:39):
if you apply for a certain position, they have your resume.
So they're calling you based on your resume.
I'm not saying that don't go on Google and try to find out what your position
will be, but try to focus more about your experience.
Make sure that when you ask me a question, you know for a fact,
and that's going to save you a lot.
Man, that's some good feedback, Ulrich. I hear the guy say it this way.
(40:00):
Anything you put on your resume is fair game. game so
if you feel like you only scratch the surface but you
put it on there it's fair game you better be ready you better
be ready if it comes up so that's a good call out already and i
like what you also said if they call you in again that's the first that's the
first win so yeah that's some really good feedback i love it and i want to just
piggyback on what donnell said i i think guys you know control what you can
(40:24):
control so again he knew his what his status was He knew that he was applying
and wasn't getting stuff as fast, and he knew why.
But he also realized, well, I mean, yeah, it kind of sucks, but I could control
being in better health by exercising.
I could control my mind by reading and studying and practicing some more.
And I remember a couple of conversations with Darnell actually during that season,
(40:47):
and he would tell me he was working on learning something new.
And fellas, that is so important to not just say, okay, I'm stuck.
There's nothing I could do. There is always something we could do.
The last piece, I think, and he mentioned that his girlfriend,
the time who's now his wife, you know, was personally, that's been great for me.
My wife, even before we were married, just having that support system,
(41:11):
you know, I mean, it's been amazing.
It's been just having someone you could just talk to and just share,
hey, this is a challenge. But just knowing you have someone on your side and we use sports analogy.
I always tell people, teamwork makes the dream work. So again,
guys, always think about that team.
Who is that core team, your core team, because that will help you navigate those
(41:32):
storms in life. And believe me, the storms will come. I mean, they're going to come.
It's whether we can weather them and be strong enough to get to the other side. So.
I'm going to move on guys. Just a few more questions I have for Darnell.
I call this, the first one is, Darnell, so you're in technology now,
you're an admin and developer for Salesforce.
Where do you see yourself in the next, say, five years?
(41:52):
Yeah, so in the next five years, I'm not entirely sure which path I'm going
to go into because in Salesforce, you know, you have multiple paths.
But I'm looking at primarily maybe either being a Salesforce architect or maybe
going into more of the consultant path.
(42:12):
I'm not entirely sure yet, but those are two of my main options right now.
Okay, man. Sounds good. And then the last segment of this podcast,
guys, I call it passing it on to the next generation.
So I asked just a few questions and we're going to go through them pretty quickly.
So, Donald, what would your advice be for minorities or underrepresented students
(42:33):
seeking a career in technology? What advice would you give them?
Just be confident. Be confident in yourself.
Make sure that you have the right circle because it's who you know and who knows
you that can give you that recommendation.
And just make sure that you keep a positive mindset.
(42:55):
Mindset a lot of times i know that there
are challenges there are challenges as a minority
and they they are real but
that's not an excuse to not be successful so
just you know lean on other people there are
people in this space who have been
there and have done that and can definitely help
(43:17):
you out awesome man knowing what you
know now what would you have done differently
in college I think I touched on
earlier I'll be a little more interdependent not
try to be so you know headstrong like
you know hey I can do it you know you can have this feeling like I don't want
(43:38):
to depend too many too much on people but I'll be more interdependent I would
make sure I have I kind of grow my my contacts a little more I think I knew
the right people but even moving on After school,
it would help if I did a better job of just making sure I kept certain connections
(43:59):
and, you know, I was more outgoing.
And the main thing is I was afraid to fail at times. I'll be 100% honest.
In the programming space, they always say, like, you know, fail fast,
you know, fail often, you know, so you know, like this doesn't work.
(44:19):
So that's not a big thing. Just fail fast, fail often.
You know good stuff now just to put one more on that college thread what other
jobs did you do while you were a student just to give advice on for again for
those who in college just different jobs that you could do that will not be
too demanding but still let you have time to.
Make some money and also keep, you know, on your focus on your studies.
(44:42):
Well, I'll just speak on myself. When I was on campus, I become a resident assistant.
That was my first job, kind of like Kazim and Dilan kind of helped me on that path.
And I would say from that job, I learned a lot.
I learned a lot. And don't always go for what would be great if you can get a job in your field.
(45:06):
But remember I spoke about documentation and
also being able to collaborate with
people on teams those are some of the things that I had to develop when I was
a resident assistant because you always have to speak to people you always have
to write reports and that helped me in the IT space with my soft skills I was
also a research assistant I worked for two different professors and once again Again, another,
(45:33):
just a little tidbit, you always have to be willing to learn.
I remember there was this professor, he taught my class.
He said, well, both Dylan and Kazim were from Dr. DeRosa.
And, you know, I was a freshman. I said, hey, you know what,
(45:53):
if he has any, like, research, you know, positions, research assistant positions,
he said, do you know Java? I said, I can learn.
And he gave me a job. So, you know, you just have to kind of,
you know, try, just put yourself out there.
So I did that. And I also worked for another professor as a research assistant. Man, you were busy.
(46:17):
Yeah. At one point in time, I did, I had both a research assistant position
and a resident assistant position. Man, that's amazing.
The next question, what's a book or resource you'd recommend to our audience?
Hmm well i can kind of
tell well i'll say google is my is my official resource
(46:39):
but some books that i've been reading recently and i made a habit of trying
to read more is think and grow rich by napoleon hill and the seven habits of
highly effective people i can't remember the author but But those books,
yes, Coffee, yes.
(46:59):
And that book in particular kind of helped me with just my soft skills.
Because if you want to move forward in the technology space,
you have to be able to talk to people, collaborate, and just build up those
skills in addition to your programming skills.
(47:20):
And that really takes you to the next level. And that's my one thing that I
have been making a conscious effort on trying to work on.
Just make sure that I build my soft skills as I grow in this field.
Awesome, man. The last question, Donald, where can people connect with you?
(47:43):
Well, you can connect with me on LinkedIn and I'll also use myself as an example.
Guys, when you get your first job, when you land that job, please try to continue
to be active on LinkedIn.
I'll be honest. And I said, I like to use myself as an example.
(48:03):
I was on LinkedIn a lot before I actually got a job. And then when I got a job, I wasn't as active.
I had a whole bunch of requests and stuff like that because I was trying to
focus on the task at hand, which was being a better developer, getting my work done.
But you still have to make sure that you have to keep those connections active
(48:27):
and continue to look to make connections.
And that's something that I personally am trying to improve on,
Just making sure that I have the connections because this is just the start of my career.
I may stay at IBM. I may not stay at IBM.
Who knows? But it's good to have different connections and know different people
(48:48):
because not only can they help you if you want to move out of the country,
but they can also company, but they can help if you want to move up.
Good advice, man. Good advice. And I always tell people, so when you want to
grow. So I think LinkedIn is a phenomenal platform for growing in the career space.
So definitely, guys, invest some time, you know, get the profile up.
(49:11):
And personally, I'm in a similar situation to Darnell. I kind of was,
once I got a job, I kind of laid back.
But I'm actually getting really, getting ready to really ramp things up on LinkedIn again.
So most of you, I think, will be connected. You're going to see a lot of content coming up.
So I'm actually getting nerdy about LinkedIn, saying,
okay, what's my target audience, who I want to connect with and
(49:32):
it's a fun I like stuff like that so I want to encourage you guys
to do the same so fellas it's been it's been a good podcast down
there man thank you so much for coming on um I want to
give just a minute do we have any just last questions before I give the closing
statements any last questions from you guys or any last comments my question
a while ago was how do you guys uh manage but you said you use software development
(49:54):
right my thing was was, uh, how you guys, uh, how you collaborate with them.
Did you get that? Yes. That works.
So he said, how do we collaborate in a nutshell? That's what you ask him.
Are you asking Aaron, how do they collaborate code wise to make sure one person's
(50:17):
code doesn't get overwritten by someone else's? Is that what you're saying?
Not just overwritten, but negatively.
It's very easy for me to make bugs if I'm trying to go through the whole programming cycle.
Okay, I wrote this code. Now I'm testing it. Now that didn't work because it had this error.
We have a whole bunch of people going through that cycle. How do you guys make
(50:40):
sure that this guy's code works?
So this guy is going to work for putting together, uh, they call it.
If I'm writing, though, I'm not writing code more than what this guy with years.
So that might, they might be close. Oh, clash of the books. So okay.
I think I understand what you're saying. And if, if, if I don't answer it correctly,
(51:05):
just kind of come to answer your question.
You can always stop me, but right now, like in Salesforce,
what we're doing a lot of it is declarative so
we don't face as
many issues as like you know bugs as
when like when you write custom code but what
i will say is that when you develop in
(51:27):
custom code you have to understand that you have git you
know you have some repository and usually you have
code that that works right and
usually you have to do like a jet pool you pull it down to to your local machine
and then you make changes and all of that and then you commit and you make your
(51:48):
changes or whatever it is and that's kind of how you can get an idea of well
my code kind of mess stuff up and.
Because you kind of working on your local branch and you have to try to fix
it before you actually push it back to, you know, the master and merge it with
the actual code that works.
(52:11):
And I think there's some value I want to make sure we capture here.
So some people might hear this and wonder what on earth is Git? Could you speak to that?
So it's just a repository central place where you can keep all of your code.
And usually like you have, you know, the master where you have the actual code
that works and then you have like your local version of it.
(52:36):
Now in Salesforce, like for us and other places, I guess it's do the same thing.
You, you never develop directly on what people are using. So you have like a
place that, you know, you call production, what your end users are actually using.
And when you're developing, usually pass your code or whatever it is through various environments.
(53:03):
You may have like a sandbox where you, you are free to do whatever you want.
If you break something, nobody's going to stress about it.
I mean, your managers are going to get mad because you know,
that's just your sandbox where you can play, where you can do whatever you want.
You want to do, then you, you'll have to like move those changes to another environment,
(53:24):
like a UAT environment where you do user acceptance testing,
just to see if all of your, all of the functionality works and usually in the
environment, you may have actual data that you have in your production,
environment to see if whatever changes that you make, sometimes they may work
(53:45):
in the sandbox and then when you test them with actual data.
Sometimes it does work. So you have to try to figure out all those things before
you move it to production where people like me and you actually get to use the
things that you created.
So you should have a lot of different steps where you have to deploy.
(54:07):
We call them deployments between different environments before you get to actual production code.
Man, this is good. And again, fellas, you know, that's the value I spoke of, right? Right.
Because, again, these are things we typically don't learn at the college level.
I mean, a professor might mention it, but until you actually do it,
it just seems very vague.
Right. So I remember when I was in my internship with a company where I currently
(54:30):
work, that was actually when I learned about the concept of multiple environments.
So we have production, we have tests, we have dev. So, again,
the idea is you don't try something for the first time in your live production
environment because that could
cost the company millions of dollars if you make a big mistake. thing.
So, and I think it has an impact for life, guys.
You know, when you hear an idea, you hear someone said, oh, this worked for me.
(54:53):
I don't think you just do it right away. You implement it in small chunks,
you test it. And if it works, you implement it some more.
If it doesn't work for you, maybe you move off. Some people are not breakfast
people, for example, whereas I see you down there, whereas others feel like
if I don't have breakfast, like me, my day is having a rough start, right?
But some people could not eat breakfast and they could be good for
(55:15):
the day but you test it find what works for you then you
optimize and make it better and that's how we develop as
you know as men and as people and become more productive back to
you donnell yeah i want to add something before you ask
another question and even when you do deployments one thing that you have to
always be conscious of not just in the coding sphere but you know in your in
(55:38):
your professional career is always make sure that you document things because
Because if you're making a deployment and...
You have a dependency and you don't you don't document all of your components,
trust me somebody's going to call you at whatever
time at night and say that hey i'm trying to deploy this this
(56:00):
is not working i'm not sure why it's not working did
you forget some of your components or did
you document everything properly and it saves you
a lot and i can tell you a lot of
headache and some of the projects i worked on
were not even some of the deployments that
i have done were not as big as some
(56:22):
other people some deployments that other people have done so please
make sure that you document things and you always keep track of whatever changes
you make i'm so happy you brought that up down here guys i want to go a step
further i think because because that was something I regret I didn't do enough
of when I was in Grambling at college and beyond,
(56:44):
beyond just code. Actually, I remember we had a project on the project.
We had put together a computerized personal trainer as one of our projects.
And we were called to present that project about maybe a year later.
And I had no idea what the code was. I mean, I had formatted my computer a few
times, so not documenting.
I mean, we have to try to fire something back up on the fly.
We were like three days when it took us probably two months to do the first one.
(57:05):
So it was tough. So definitely, man, you want to document as much as possible.
And even from a business perspective, I mean, with the stuff I do,
the academic tutoring and mentoring for people in young people in STEM,
I mean, I've been doing this thing for a minute and I realized that back in
Grambling, I was already doing it, but I did not document as much as I do now.
So I think advice for you guys definitely is to document the journey.
(57:30):
All right. It sounds like we're good. So again, folks, it has been a pleasure, Donald.
I wish you all the best. And just as a reminder, as we're closing again,
the whole idea of this podcast is really just to help bridge the diversity gap in technology.
Minority and underrepresented students, I mean, when you look at most technology
companies, they just aren't there, or technology departments.
There's very little representation. So we want to help be part of the solution,
(57:53):
of course, with problem solvers, most of us are in the technology space.
So definitely, that's the vision. So Donald, thanks for sharing your expertise.
It was definitely a pleasure having you on i wish you all
the best in your in your career and also the
other things you're doing i know you have the photography business also which we
didn't really get to touch on maybe that's the next podcast but yeah
it's it's really a pleasure and i'm proud of you as a you know guys
(58:14):
it's really about passing it on it's about
passing it on and i remember when donnell came in
man you know his freshman year me and dylan were mentoring him
i remember a conversation where we said man we need
to give this guy a job me and dylan had a conversation taxation and
my wizard executing and i mean to me
the most beautiful thing guys is the fact that when you
(58:34):
point to people and they go further than you've gone and that's what i mean
my first internship was with lsu actually in a battle rouge donnell's one of
his first internships was if ibm he went further my first corporate america
job was if a fortune 50 company right right?
Donald joined IBM, a Fortune 50 company. I think it's actually Fortune 30.
(58:57):
So, you know, even Dylan, I think it took me about a year to become a senior with an assistant.
It took Dylan, I think, six months, right? So as we point to people and we share
what we know, we have them shorten the learning curve for them to get to the
next level. And that's what it's about.
Because when you guys win, I mean, I win too. That's why I look at it.
I win because my broader vision, guys, is to one day, I want to be one day as
(59:21):
an entrepreneur, career person, I want to be making business moves that are
so big, I need partners with me.
And who better to be a partner with me than someone that I've been investing
in and seeing them go on the journey.
And if you guys do the same thing, all of a sudden we see a massive network
just rising up of folks who are doing what we're doing, who have passions like
(59:44):
we have, and who are all about making a difference and not just a dollar.
So now I'm off my soapbox. It was been a fun time and hopefully we get to reconnect.
Music.
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