Truth does not always travel fastest online, momentum does. Jesse and Bernie dig into how algorithms amplify emotion, conflict, and outrage, often without regard for accuracy or consequence. Bernie explains why exposure to extreme or opposing content can be informative, even when flawed, because it reveals patterns of thinking and intent. Jesse warns that algorithms shape behavior quietly, nudging beliefs and reactions before people realize what’s happening. The conflict lies in agency: are users choosing content, or is content choosing them. The stakes are psychological and social, as unchecked amplification can harden divisions and normalize hostility. This episode helps listeners understand how digital systems reward repetition, not reflection, and why conscious engagement is essential. If you’ve ever wondered why your feed feels more intense than real life, this conversation will connect the dots. Listen carefully, then share it with someone who thinks algorithms are harmless.
Episode Transcript
Coming up on this episode of TheLogical Lawyer Podcast, we can't
(00:03):
run away from this technology.
We gotta run into it.
Yeah,
I actually like it because itlets me see what's going on,
what other people are thinking,that's it and what they're saying.
That's it.
Because for a long time Ireceived nothing from the Right.
Yeah.
And now I'm getting allthis stuff from the right.
(00:23):
Oh yeah.
And I see that their analysis.
I don't see their logic.
Yeah.
But I see what they're thinking.
And that gives me a broader perspectiveof what's going on in our world.
Yep.
And hopefully
(00:47):
welcome all to Bernie Brown'sdelight, where legal minds unite both
day and night in uncertain times.
He's your in life.
So gather around, let's say.
(01:08):
Welcome to the Logical Lawyer Podcastwith attorney Bernie Brown, retired Los
Angeles assistant city attorney withdecades of legal experience and also
extensive leadership experience servingin top bar associations like the John
M Langston Bar Association and theAssociation of Black City Attorneys.
Bernie is powered by a deep personaltestimony that took him from South central
(01:32):
LA to the courtrooms of downtown la.
Bernie dives into today's toughestlegal, social, and spiritual issues.
He brings facts, answers, and sharpanalysis to cut through all the noise.
So are you ready for ano-nonsense perspective?
Then let's get started with your hostattorney, Bernie Brown, the logical
(01:54):
lawyer as descendants of all ofthat part of the diaspora of peoples
that originated from, the continent.
And this is our task, this is ourtask and everybody has a role.
Everybody can't be quarterback.
Everybody can't be running backor everybody can't be a pitcher
(02:15):
up on the mound, but and everybodycan't hit the whole run, but there
are some people that can bunt.
There's some people that can make plays.
Yeah.
And it takes all of that.
And, interestingly enough, wewere having a conversation.
We have lots of great conversationsback there in the food pantry after
class because we take the, we pileeverything onto this table, and then we
(02:40):
slide it back through the doors thereso that the slam industry can come in.
And get set up.
And so it's the wrap up showor whatever, so to speak.
And one of the things that cameup in class was a brother, he was
indicating that what we don't have.
These leaders of whatever of old thatcould he was talking about pastors
(03:03):
or whatever that could, that had adirect line to the White House or
that had a direct line to a senatoror something like that, who could.
Sat down with gangs and makea truce and all of that.
And I was, I didn't say anything.
I was just scratching my head like I don'tknow about that part, but some of the
other stuff, yeah, they could get the ballrolling and everything, but no one had
(03:27):
that power, but or ability there, therewere many people that tried, of course.
But at any rate what he was basicallygetting to was the fact in his mind
that we, we didn't have that one.
Voice, of the quote unquote people.
And and my observation, I said that Iwas shared with them this documentary
(03:50):
that I was watching yesterday as I wasdoing some research for some postings
that I was gonna do on the website.
And it had, it was about the Pullman.
The Pullman Porters, originallywas called, or Pullman.
My uncle was one of
those.
Oh, is that right?
Yes.
Oh my, on the train in Chicago.
(04:12):
Is he right?
He whoa.
Yes, exactly.
Is he still with us?
No.
Oh, okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
I was getting really excitednow, because I'm like, Hey, I, I
just did some research on that.
I would talk, reach out to thatguy because they did have some guys
that they and this was an NPR thingthat that they talked to there.
(04:33):
But anyway, the, the Pullman Porters andI forget what they, what it originally.
Morphed into, as far as the union goes'cause there was a whole big thing.
Chicago was, as was groundzero for a lot of activity.
And in, in fact, it was real bad stuff.
That's what, that's when I think the firsttime that they called the military in.
(04:57):
On the people therebecause there was a revolt.
The workers had about 4,000plus whatever walked out.
And and then the guy, the owner pulledMr. Pullman himself, he had people in
Washington and he put some bugs and someears, and they sent the troops there.
And the people they went off.
(05:19):
They didn't like that, so they went off.
And next thing they start burning upthese cars because, they made these cars
of sleepers and that sort of thing there.
In fact, one of the, that was one ofthe cars that carried Lincoln's body
across, the states and, and, they weren'thaving any of that, so they were burning
(05:39):
things up and tearing things up and themilitary started firing on the people.
There was about 16 or more peoplethat were killed as a result
of that, and thousands injured.
And the workers didn't win.
They didn't get anything from thatother than, national attention.
Of course national A came down theroad because the porters and the maids,
(06:04):
because there were maids there as well.
They they started to organize.
And they didn't really havea one person to do this.
And there was an a brother out therethat was doing some other type of
organizing and had a very strong voice.
(06:25):
He was educated and skilled.
And and they heard about him andand then they eventually elected
him or asked him to come and leadtheir organization because they the
company came up with this company.
Oriented union, which was illegaland did nothing for the people.
(06:50):
And so there, there was another union, therailroads union, and that the porters were
I think charter members of it originally.
And so this brother by the name ofyou, you're probably familiar with him.
Brother a Philip Randolph came.
Oh yeah.
Came to the scene and he was the guythat became this, the first president
(07:14):
of that all black union for portersand, and they they became very strong.
In fact, they were the guys that reallyhelped kick off the Civil Rights Movement
itself as an organized movement there,because they had the organization,
(07:35):
they had the membership and theyjoined for with and Dr. King's people.
And and it was a forceto be reckoned with.
And, history, looks back on, theaccomplishments of the movement itself
both with workers' rights and everything.
In fact, that particular union for thePorters, it also gave women a vote, on
(08:00):
as it relates to labor labor issues thereand contracts, which was unheard of.
In fact, one of the brothersa Philip Randolph's right
hand man, I forget his name.
He wasn't he wasn't too keen onwomen being, women working anyway,
he was one of those guys, no shadeon him, that was that was his view.
And he came from, that time and thatthat kind of upbringing or whatever.
(08:24):
But, brother Randolph, he said no,the sisters they're going to, they're
going to get a say in all of this.
And they, and those women, they formedtheir own auxiliary union as well,
and they became a major fundraiser.
For the porters.
And and all this was culminatingto, this all happened prior to
(08:46):
the march on Washington with MLKin the I dream avid Dream speech.
And the brother that introduced MLKat the podium was a Philip Randolph.
Wow.
Even, man, I don't need a history book.
If I got you,
(09:07):
hey man I love this stuff.
And especially that, and this is thething that both young people and old
people, not just the young people Yeah.
And I mentioned thembecause of the fact that.
A lot of this stuff is beingremoved from, libraries and
databases and stuff like that.
And so they have never heard of it inmany cases and would never hear about it.
(09:34):
But for other, forums and platformsthat would give them that opportunity
to hear about these things.
And that's where peoplelike you and I come in.
To, give them something, that they can,grow on not just them, the brothers and
sisters that were perhaps even there.
(09:56):
But may have forgot about it.
And and it just warms their hearts andtheir souls or whatever to know that,
okay, this information didn't die.
They didn't take that away from us.
It's like knowledge andstuff, once, once you have it.
No one can take that away from you.
You might forget some thingsthere, but no one took it away,
they say history repeats itself.
(10:18):
It does.
It can.
Yes.
And so if it is, thenthe leaders of tomorrow.
Or being born today.
Oh, I'm glad
that you said that because that's whereI brought Higgins and them around to,
I said, now that brother was thinkingthat, okay, there's no one out there.
(10:38):
And I was referred to a Philip Randolphand MLK for that matter and others.
Shuttlesworth and Abernathy andwhatnot as being, it was their time.
It was a time and a moment, and theywere uniquely qualified and prepared,
to actually do what needed to be done.
And all of them were not necessarilyraising their hand to say, okay, send me.
(11:05):
It was a kind of areluctance type of thing.
Someone had to do it.
Yes.
And it's okay, alright, I'mgoing to go ahead and do this.
They may have even had conditions.
Okay, I'm going to go to bein here for six months, or, 30
or to get you across the line.
I'm gonna argue this particular caseor whatever, just this one case.
Next thing they're Thurgood Marshall, andall the rest of them, that's in it, to
(11:29):
win it, for everybody from the long hauland it becomes their cause and everything.
And I think to your point.
I don't know what it's going to take.
I don't know when that's going to happenor whatever, but there's, they're either
being born or they're already born.
They're already, yeah.
Like I said, being
(11:49):
Yeah.
But I think they're already out there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And there are people out therethat will rise to the challenge.
Yes.
They're gonna meet the challenge, andyou could be one of those leaders.
You could be one of themthat hey, all of them,
the leagues to, to the pointof being a reluctant one.
I would, as far as being out front,I'd probably be, scratching and
(12:12):
clawing trying to get the to theback, but but with that said I feel
a calling to continue to try to.
Lift up, our people.
And I'm talking about, everyonepart that's part of the diaspora.
Or diaspora because yeah, most of uswere born here in this United States,
(12:33):
but our ancestors weren't, yes.
However you wanna look at that.
It all started.
Somewhere else overseas.
And they didn't come here with a passport.
They weren't on a carnival cruiseor anything like that, and many
didn't even make it for that matter.
(12:53):
Yeah.
I, I just feel compelled to do that.
And have a platform to do that andto try to encourage everyone else in
whatever lane you're in to do that.
Because just the presence of amelanated person in whatever that
discipline is, makes a difference.
As far as the algorithm, becausenow we are into the information, age
(13:17):
and algorithms, make a difference.
They control behavior andeverything you know of people.
A person that you know, thatknows somebody that knows someone.
It could be way, it could be ahundred people down the list there.
That liked something.
And this algorithm tried tofind someone else that would
(13:38):
like the same thing or whatever.
So it's gonna run by everybody.
Okay.
Whether went there or not, that's justhow it goes, and the only thing in,
zuckerberg and Musk and these guys.
And the guy that before Musk theyall had an original agreement to
filter out, crap like that, that.
(14:00):
People didn't ask to see or whatever,but since this administration and
even actually even in, in the thefirst one, they've opened all that
up now, so you have to, as I wassharing with another brother, we
can't run away from this technology.
We gotta run into it,
Yeah.
(14:20):
I actually like, like it because.
It lets me see what's going on,what other people are thinking.
That's it, what they're saying.
That's it.
Because for a long time Ireceived nothing from the yeah.
And now I'm getting allthis stuff from the right.
Oh yeah.
I see.
See that, that their analysis.
I don't see their logic.
(14:41):
Yeah.
But I see what they're thinking.
And that gives me a broader perspectiveof what's going on in our world.
Yep.
And hopefully that we're not leadingtoward a climactic point of conflict.
That's,
that, that's what scares me.
Yeah.
Is is this idea that, these forcesare so diametrically opposed.
(15:03):
And they're not willingto compromise at all.
And not even willing to talk.
Right.
And so when that happens, I thinkit just becomes, it becomes worse.
And so you, I thinkinevitably it can lead to.
Of conflict.
I don't think, I don't thinkwe're going to a civil war.
But I think we could see social unrest.
(15:27):
Yeah.
Especially if it's initiatedor instigated by our president.
The to that point there, even bydefinition, that's at least civil unrest,
if not civil war, yes, we can takethe war off the table there, because.
It would be a differenttype of situation anyway.
Yes.
Yeah.
(15:48):
Excuse me.
There might be some blood in the street.
As a matter of fact, I think I postedI don't know if you saw it or not.
I posted something on Instagramand did a repost of it for
representative Norma Torres.
She's one of, I guess a numberof people that's investigating
that shooting some the allegedshooting out there in Ontario, okay?
(16:12):
And, we could see moreof that, because it's.
It's right there.
It is.
It's on the tip.
And go ahead.
It's interesting too, because when youget a president that's sending troops
into cities that don't want them.
You set the fertile groundfor potential conflict.
(16:32):
Yes.
You're stroking, as they say.
Yes.
Yes.
You're stroking conflict.
Yes.
And the danger is.
That you get a governor or a cityofficial who tells the police.
If ICE violates people's C civil rights.
Arrest them or stop them.
(16:55):
Now you've got two forces.
Two law enforcement, theoreticallylaw enforcement forces.
Going against each other, and thatcould lead to a great conflict, but
I could see it happening because youhave, you have these people on the news
and they're showing you instances whereice seemingly, at least on the video
(17:17):
what I'm seeing looks like a violationof people's constitutional rights.
Grabbing people for no reason,roughing them up, searching
them, clear violations of rights.
Annie, he actually had looked in certaininstances like they were using force
against people beating or hitting them.
And theoretically that violates state law.
(17:37):
So theoretically you couldhave a situation where state
law enforcement could be in.
With federal a officers,
well, where where does that line if thereis a line between the civil rights and
due process cross, or are they the same?
(17:57):
In theory the ice is subject to thesame constitutional limitations,
and our president is subject tothe same constitutional limitations
as are all other law enforcement.
Agencies.
And so in theory, they can't go aroundviolating people's constitutional
rights and they can theoreticallybe held accountable for that.
(18:22):
But that would require acourt of law at some point.
But in the meantime, you couldsee local law enforcement officers
stepping in under the direction.
A mayor or a governor whosays, wait a minute, I see ice.
Or I see federal troops beating uppeople, hurting people violating their
(18:45):
constitutional rights, committingbatteries, assaults, false imprisonment,
and violating constitutional rights.
And therefore I'm sitting my officers.
To oppose them.
Now that theoretically couldhappen, in which event you
would have a serious situation,
I think, as a matter of factdoesn't or did Chicago determine
(19:08):
that's, that's their move?
Did they set that up or what?
In theory they they couldn't initiate it.
I haven't seen it happenwith this administration yet.
Okay.
As far as opposition, but,
It's certain I'm talking on, on, on paper.
I thought that he made a proclamationor executive order I didn't
(19:29):
hear, or something like that.
Yeah.
Tell us about what you heard.
That, that's all that I'veheard actually there, Uhhuh.
I'd have to, pull that up because Iwas listening to that because I know,
I think it came out at that rally thatthey had and, as we're sitting here, I'll
probably, try to bring it up if I can.
He had indicated, just as youlaid out there, the parameters for
(19:53):
their officers to engage and ifnecessary arrests, the ICE officers.
Okay.
For violation of civil rights, yes.
Civil rights.
Yes.
If not due process.
And to your point, man, thatcould be something because.
The feds are gonna feel that they've gotjurisdiction, based on, the authority
(20:17):
of the administration or whatever.
Yes.
Because certainly I, 'cause I don'tbelieve the constitution, would be
their foundation for any of that.
But other than.
As it relates to the Insurrection Actor some other type of being at war or
something like that, which they're tryingto make, make up right now or conjure up.
(20:39):
Or stroke as you indicated.
But outside of that, it their actionswould be unlawful under the Constitution.
And that's where the mayor was sayingthat their police force could step in
and arrest these officers if necessary.
And I don't think that anybody'sgonna go, come quietly.
(21:02):
Oh, yes they're therein the pot is brewing.
Therein is the possibility or thestewing of the pot for major conflict
for really great violence, shall we say.
Unleashing a real situation.
(21:23):
I've, i've been thinking about thatfor some time because it is a matter
of concern as I mentioned earlier.
If the president and many people believethat he's just testing the ground by
sending in these troops to cities thatdon't want them, the cities are saying
we don't want them, and then he'screating what he's saying is a condition
(21:46):
that requires them to be sent in.
And you look on the media.
And you look under in the news.
And there's no violence,there's nothing going on.
And he's saying, oh, wait a minute they'reburning down la there's nothing going out.
They turning up Chicago
and they're looking at footagefrom the Watts riots or something.
(22:07):
Yeah.
So he's trying to create a situationand so many people believe that
he is just testing the ground.
And in theory.
If he's still around whenthe next election comes, Ooh.
And he starts sending troops tothe ballot boxes because he is
already saying he is gonna do that.
(22:27):
And many people believe that.
That's just a a method of intimidation.
That he's trying to intimidate votersbecause you send a bunch of ice.
Agents.
The,
The thing that that governorPritzker and the mayor and others
are saying or suggesting that toyour point of them sending troops
(22:48):
in the troops will already be there.
They're trying to, they were saying thatthey're trying to normalize the situation
so that, when 2026 comes around, forinstance and then anything in between.
Heck, we might see somethingthis Tu Tuesday as far as what
that looks like supposedly.
(23:10):
There are gonna be some watchersthere around these watchers.
These polling places there andwatchers watching the watchers.
Oh, man.
Yes.
Everybody's watching.
Everybody's watching.
That's a wrap for thisepisode of The Logical Lawyer.
If you found this insightful, be sure tolike, follow, subscribe, leave a review,
(23:32):
and share it with others who appreciatestraight talk and sharp analysis.
Got a question or a topic forBernie, we'd love to hear from you.
Connect with bernie@thelogicallawyer.me.
That's at the Logicallawyer.me, and you've got it.
So until next time, stay informed.
Think critically.
And as always, keep it logical.
(23:54):
Bernie Brown with knowledgeprofound in the realm of justice.
He's renowned.
Seek the logical where are found
on each.
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