October 12, 2025 • 31 mins
Why do we delay change until “Monday” or “New Year’s”? The crew dismantles the comfort of postponement and replaces it with a 3-step loop: apologize (own it), act (one repair today), align (habits with values). Laura admits how avoidance masqueraded as peace; Bernie argues for small, certain improvements over grand intentions; Jesse links alignment to spiritual and mental freedom. The conflict is procrastination versus integrity, with stakes that touch health, relationships, and credibility. Expect simple prompts, micro-wins, and a permission slip to start messy. The emotional payoff is relief—you don’t need a perfect plan to begin, just the next honest step. Listen now and text this to someone who keeps waiting for “the right time.”
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Coming up on this editionof the Joint Podcast,
we may not be, you know, we're nottrying to be all things to all people.
But again, if you're in a relationship,whether it's, like I said, if
you're, you're married, you'redating, uh, if you're a leader in
any type of way, you can't be afraidto hear what people have to say.
Now, of course, with social media, um.
(00:23):
There are some people who just gonna,they're gonna drag you no matter what.
Mm-hmm.
That that's what they're there for.
There's always gonna be the antagonist.
Right.
Um, but you, you take it, whateverit is, take it all and pull
out what you need for yourself.
Um, you know, and then
(00:44):
at the intersection of logic and truth,
this is the logical lawyer, and it'sthat part, exploring legal, social, and
cultural issues with insight, clarity,and purpose, truth and logic, sharp and
clear insight and hope we bring it here.
(01:10):
Where truth meet logic in action,
it's the Logical lawyerand it's that part.
Welcome to the Talk of the Times,a joint production of the Logical
Lawyer with host Bernie Brown andthe It's that Part Podcast hosted
by yours truly, Jesse Lee Hammonds.
(01:31):
And although we approached the variousitems and persons of interest from
different backgrounds professionally,Bernie being a prosecutor and former
Los Angeles, California AssistantCity Attorney, as well as a Hall of
Fame member of the John m LangstonBar Association of Los Angeles,
just to name a couple of headliners.
(01:52):
And me, a longtime former manager ofhuman resources and corporate assets at
the Fortune 500 Company, at and t andformer Radio and International Club Jock.
We have a shared commitment toclarity, logic, lawfulness, relevance,
as well as truth in every fact.
(02:12):
All brought together with realconversations amongst ourselves.
And with others about the times inwhich we have and currently live.
It's the talk of the times.
First of all, when you diagnosedwith cancer, the first thing
we think about is death.
It does not matter if it'sfinger cancer, toe cancer.
We think of death because the word cancerjust kind of brings on that thought.
(02:36):
But, um, the, you know, being diagnosedat such an early age, I was 33.
Um.
You know, five babies at home.
They were, I think 12all the way down to four.
And so it was, it was a difficult time,but man, I, when I look back at it now,
the first diagnosis was 24 years ago.
(02:58):
It, and just, and then when I gotdiagnosed the second time that.
Nine, almost 19 years ago.
So, um, but it was, it was harder,I think, as a mom of small children
more than it was as a wife, becauseagain, I thought about death as well.
My mother had breast cancer.
(03:19):
She was diagnosed in the first timein 1990, and then it came back,
I'm not sure how long, but it cameback and it, it was uterine cancer.
And then eventually, um.
Medically speaking, it took her life.
But she said if she, when she died, shesaid, just tell them God, call me home.
So going through that, knowing shehad it, it was in the family, right?
(03:44):
And so having to go through that and lookat my babies and thinking that I wouldn't
see them grow up or get married or thingslike that, that weighed heavier on me.
And leaving them than anything.
But the blessing was, um, I had areally good village and I still do, you
know, my village did rally around me.
(04:05):
Uh, Jesse's wife was one of them, uh,who really rallied around me both times.
Uh, the first time I wasvery private about it.
'cause you know, again, thatgoes back to what goes on in
this house, stays in this house.
But the second time, becausethat was gonna be a lot harder
challenge, more in depth surgeryand everything that came with that.
And now my kids are older.
(04:27):
Right now there's 17 down to like 11 now.
I really, I have to tell everybody now,'cause the first time I didn't tell them.
And so, and the church was involved, likethe whole church was involved this time.
So, um, but like I said, Ithink I really, God chose me.
That's, and I, I do have two other sistersand I, I initially, I wondered why me?
(04:51):
And the Holy Spirit said, why not you?
I asked a second time,why me say it again?
So, but that's part of self-examinationbecause when the second diagnosis came,
the Holy Spirit showed me that there wassomething I didn't learn the first time.
So that's why I had to come backand that's, that's one of the
(05:11):
things I have to take to the grave.
But that's, you mentioned Uhhuh.
Say it again.
You mentioned self-examination.
My mother had breast cancer.
Mm-hmm.
And the first time she discoveredit was through a self-examination.
Mm-hmm.
And see that's how you cando the double play on words.
'cause my self-examination was theself-examination I'm talking about in the
(05:32):
book, not necessarily the physical Yeah.
Self-examination.
But yes.
That too.
And, but just doing that self-reflectionand the, you know, I, when I was in
the hospital the second time, I hadwhat's called my ninth hour experience.
It's in the other book thatI wrote about breast cancer.
And man Oh man, I'm telling youthat's, it was like looking at my life
(05:55):
in four D. And I could see it all.
And then he reminded me,this is why it came back.
This is why I allowed it to came back.
To come back.
Mm. And I was like, couldn't you justtell me like, you can, you can, I
would've accepted the handwriting onthe wall, you know, beside, but again.
We get hardheaded and we don't do the,either the physical self-examination as
(06:18):
females or the, just the self-examinationlooking within and stop blaming other
people and take responsibility forour actions or our lack of action.
Mm-hmm.
And that, yeah.
So, but yeah, it's, I, I thank you forasking the question, um, because that,
you know, we can plug that book later.
Well,
and, and
it is actually all about self-examination.
(06:41):
Mm-hmm.
Difficult and mental.
Yep.
Yep.
Social.
Yep.
What's, what's one simple stepto start self-examination?
Um, kind of maybe doing what I did.
Like I said, talk topeople that you trust.
Don't go to your haters.
Don't always gonna tell youwhat you need to fix, right?
Mm-hmm.
(07:01):
But maybe just a handfulof people, maybe 5, 6, 7.
Like I said, I did about 10 and theywere of different ages and nationalities.
Races, right?
Because I wanted to see if theywould, how different it would be.
Ask those folks to tell youabout yourself a lot of times.
Or often we do not askpeople tell me about myself.
(07:22):
They always say, tell us aboutyour salary job interviews.
Give us a little bit about yourself.
If you go into a job interview, you'renot gonna say, well, you know what?
At my last job I stole like $10,000.
And then, you know, I was ableto pay off a student loan.
And you know, we don't do that.
We talk about what we're capable of.
But if you get some folks you trustthat are in your inner circle to
(07:43):
tell you just about yourself, that's,that's the way to get started.
And then once they tell you,don't brush it off, accept it, and
then start chipping away at it.
Because like I said, um, all of us havetaken advantage of somebody in our lives.
All of us have hurt somebodyintentionally and unintentionally.
All of us have broken rules.
(08:05):
Whether it's behind the wheel,behind the scenes, right.
We've all done something.
And so to walk around and thinkthat we haven't, that's, that's
just living a lie anyway.
'cause all of us as sinned, right?
That's, that's what scripture says.
We've all sinned.
Yeah.
Um, but we've all done something.
And then once you, once you get thatperson or those persons to tell you about
(08:29):
yourself, you accept it, start workingon it, and then when you come out, I,
I also encourage people to journal asthey do this, because you'll forget.
You'll forget.
And the blessing about.
This book is, um, I'd start on achapter, and as you see, you know, each
chapter talks about sex in some way.
And they'd have like a little bylineor something, or, or subtitle.
(08:52):
Mm-hmm.
Um, but I could go back and lookat my journals from before and the
Lord is giving me a decent mindwhere I can kind of recall stuff.
'cause if I'm writing something,it'll spark a memory and then
I can plug it into the book.
And that's, you'll see that, uh, I,I remember when I was nine years old.
Uh, speaking of chapterthree, it's my fault.
It's their fault.
I was taking swimminglessons at nine years old.
(09:13):
I was going across the,the, the swimming pool.
Oh, you got, I I was just getting to, uh,tell you a story about that, you know,
'cause I was, I was looking for 'em.
Like, wait a minute.
She says something about swimming.
Yeah.
Go, go ahead.
Go ahead.
Go ahead.
But, but I'll, I'll steer her.
Okay.
So I was taking swimming lessons becausemy mother said she didn't know how to.
Swim and she, she said we needed tolearn because she couldn't, she wouldn't
(09:36):
be able to save us if we fell in.
So we took swimming lessons andit was a junior Olympic size pool
or probably a college size pool.
And I had to swim.
They have us swim acrossit of the long way.
Right.
'cause that was just too many.
That was what, 50 meters?
Yeah.
And so I did my thing and I was getting,I was almost done with my lessons, right?
'cause you have to swim forward or.
(09:58):
Uh, whatever this, the front strokeand then you had to float on my
back, so I swam across, did fine.
And he says, float back on your back.
Well, I started floating andI got tired and I just let go.
So I was, you know, floating.
And then I just let my legs go becauseI kept, I got tired of just the quick
flapping of my legs and I let go.
(10:20):
And I was in five feet.
And at the time, since I was nine,I was probably only 36 inches.
Maybe four feet tall, maybe 48 inchesfor those wood out there doing the math.
And, um, the water was above myhead, and water was below me,
so I couldn't touch the bottom.
So I was literally suspended withprobably a foot of, uh, or yeah, a foot
(10:41):
of water above me and a foot of waterbelow me with the bottom pool, taking
pool, taking water, taking in water.
I was in the water.
Mm-hmm.
You were taking, were you taking anyOh, no, I wasn't taking in the water.
I was holding my breath becauseI was very good at that breath.
As long as you could.
And I just, and I just sat thereand I was just like, and I'm looking
up 'cause I couldn't bounce right.
To try to push myself up and it, itdidn't dawn on me to flap my arms.
(11:04):
I just sat there and I'm lookingaround like, okay, I guess this
is how I'm gonna die, but I'mholding my breath the whole time.
And I wasn't panicked or anything.
I was just there like, okay,eventually somebody gonna come get me.
And eventually it did.
The instructor jumped in andpulled me out and they took me to
the opposite end of where he was.
He yelled at me, he lookedlike Terry Cruz, and he was
(11:26):
like, I told you not to stop.
I told you to keep going.
And I'm on the other side crying,not because I almost drowned.
I'm crying because.
He was yelling at me.
Mm. Because I was literallyat peace under all that water.
I was just, I'm telling you, youhave, I wish I could show you.
And I just sat there.
Just somebody's coming.
I'm just looking.
(11:47):
And um, yeah.
So that was, that was my fault, right?
I stopped.
I should have kept going.
I knew how to.
Swim, but why I didn't react likeI should have and try to like
flat my arms and bring me up.
That didn't, it didn't make sense to me.
It just didn't.
And then it was his fault too, 'cause heshould have jumped in and got me sooner.
(12:07):
Well, a little levity onthat particular point there.
Uh, I don't know how old, old I was.
I was very young.
YMCA.
Mom and my sister, theywere learning how to swim.
So, uh, we were learninghow to swim as well.
And, um, I was, uh, pickedup and tossed into the water.
(12:29):
Mm. Uh, I was back in thosedays, I, I had, uh, a, a very bad
temper and I would hold a grudge.
Oh, I was, I was mad at the world.
Because, you know, I was scared Iwas taking on water and I didn't want
(12:53):
to even try learning swimming again.
But me being Jesse, I tried it again,uh, this time at the, down the street
at the, the local, uh, swimming pool.
And this was when I, Istarted noticing girls.
Okay.
And so I said, well, I'm going to.
(13:15):
Run up to this thing, and I'm going todo a, a nice, you know, high dive in
this pool and, you know, show off and,oh, man, I started drinking the water.
All right.
I got out of there and after Icoughed it up enough, uh, and started
walking back home with my leg, my, mytail between my legs and everything
(13:37):
with people laughing, I'm like,okay, I'm not gonna do that again.
Fast forward quickly.
And last one, I was in the Philippines.
Mm.
And uh, we were there on assignment, um,and uh, after we launched the Jets and
everything, uh, we would go back to thehotel that they were holding us up in.
(13:58):
And so everyone was havinga good time and everything.
Uh, Sam, Miguel, and, you know,the whole nine yards red horse.
And, uh, we are diving into the pool now.
Me.
I am diving into the pool.
This goes to, uh, uh, uh, the,the, the, the, the shallow water
part that, that you were speakingof, or swimming to the other side.
Mm-hmm.
(14:18):
I would dive in off the divingboard now and then I would curl.
And, and kick and, and, and justkind of cruise over to the edge.
I did that a number of times, butthen I, I guess I got full and uh,
I said, well, you know, I'm goingto go, go for a no splash situation.
(14:41):
Okay.
So I go, I jump off the board andI go straight up a belly flopper.
Pardon me?
A belly flopper.
No, no, no.
I was trying to go for 10, you know.
No scratch.
And, uh, and so I went upand I went straight down.
Whoa.
Now this pool was, you know, hotel pool.
(15:03):
This was like 10 or 12 feet down.
So I hit the water.
And as soon as I hit that water withmy hands, I'm like, oh no, I'm going
straight down instead of curling over.
And I'm like, oh my God.
Okay.
So I said, okay, calm, just keep kickingand you're gonna get to the bottom and
(15:28):
then you can push yourself back up.
Okay?
So I did that and I wasin shape in those days.
And so I pushed up andI'm kicking, kicking.
I'm not kicking, and I didn't pushover to the left or to the right.
I pushed straight up.
So I'm kicking, kicking, kicking,kicking, kicking, kicking.
(15:51):
When is it coming?
And my fingers were notbreaking air up here.
Yeah.
And then it finally broke some air.
And I got up, uh, enoughheight to say, whoa,
me and I, and I was trying to make some,some, some noise and whatever, you know,
(16:15):
and eventually someone did come get meas they were laughing and everything
and pull me out and I'm coughing upwater and stuff 'cause I'm drinking it.
You know, I'm like, Lord, I, I did pray.
I said, Lord, please don't let me diedown here in the Philippines like this.
Right, right.
I I was not at peace.
Uh, uh, uh, uh, sister Laura.
(16:37):
I was like, man, I'm, I'mdown here sinning, you know,
don't take me like this.
So, so, but anyway,that was, that was fun.
Yeah, well when I read that chapterI said, oh man, that was me.
But I wasn't that piece.
Yeah.
I may as well
give you just one mic, quick story sinceyou guys are talking about swimming.
(16:59):
I was taking swimming lessons, learninghow to swim, and I'd gotten to the
point where I could jump in the deepend and I'm gonna say mine fast.
Mm. And how to dog pedal.
But similar to Laura, Ijumped in and I went down.
And I froze.
Ooh.
And I, I felt like I didn't know.
(17:20):
I couldn't get to the side, get back up,and in the middle of it all, I'm staring.
I'm like, boy, you know,I'm not at peace though.
Like you, Laura,
I'm starting to panic.
I'm like, oh, no, no, no.
I felt someone pull my feet.
At least I saw somebody pull myfoot and then I snapped out of it.
(17:42):
Hmm.
And just started dog felling and SW swamto the top and swed over and swam over.
So, interesting.
Oh, we all have our swim through.
Well, that's supernatural right there.
Right,
right,
right,
right.
We're gonna talk about that,that in the book again.
Yeah.
Okay.
(18:03):
So, um, let's see here.
Uh, we're getting down to, uh, the end.
We've, we've covered, you know,you know, the, the, a simple step
to start the self-examination.
And, and I think that that's key.
(18:24):
Um, now, um, what else would you have orwould you hope that listeners take away
from this book and in fact, even thisconversation that they will carry with
them, you know, long into the future for,for the rest of their lives, if anything.
(18:48):
And you know, Mr. Bernie touched on it.
Self-examination is lifelong.
Mm-hmm.
It does.
'cause we never arrive, right?
We, we reach destinations or we reachthe end of a particular part of the
journey, but it doesn't stop till we die.
Really, self-examination is alwaysongoing and not, not to be afraid to
(19:10):
know the truth about yourself, you know?
Um, and if, and if it's just you inthe mirror and you're saying yourself.
Proclamations or you're saying you'reencouraging words or whatever it is,
that's fine too, but don't, it's alwaysbetter to have someone else to kind of
show you, uh, things you might be missing.
(19:32):
'cause we probably think we'rethe best thing since sliced bread.
But truth be told, and we may not be.
You know, and we're not tryingto be all things to all people.
But again, if you're in a relationship,whether it's, like I said, if
you're, you're married, you'redating, uh, if you're a leader in
any type of way, you can't be afraidto hear what people have to say.
(19:53):
Now, of course, with social media, um,there are some people who just gonna,
they're gonna drag you no matter what.
Mm-hmm.
Because that, that'swhat they're there for.
There's always gonna be the antagonist.
Right.
Um, but you, you take it, whatever it is.
Take it all and pull outwhat you need for yourself.
Um, you know, and then for,and by my book, and then also,
(20:17):
right?
Um, but also be honest.
Don't just, I mean, likereally say, Hey, you know what?
You messed up yesterday.
That wasn't someone else's fault.
That, that, that, that reportdidn't get done on time.
I should have taken the reins.
And done whatever.
If you see somebody falling or they'resinking and you don't help 'em, it's
(20:38):
almost like one of my favorite songs.
He says, well, I, you told me whenyou told me you were drowning.
I didn't lend a hand.
You know, I, so we're part of the problem.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
You know, um, and so also, likeI said, I think journaling, you
know, uh, that that's therapeuticin itself, you know, and it doesn't
have to be a journal anyone reads.
(20:59):
So I would say once you fillup one of 'em, burn it, you
know, the right way or Right.
Correctly.
And then 'cause you, you're done with it.
But if you're the kind who likesto reflect, like I did, that's how
I was able to write the books thatI've written, is that I journal.
Then I go back and say, I remembersaying something about it.
And if you don't wanna do a journal,put it on your memo pad on your phone.
(21:19):
Um, and then, like I said, start walkingin that don't, you know, don't go
backwards 'cause none of us have that.
We have more time behind usthan we do ahead of us, right?
Um, and life is gonna keeplife in no matter what.
And if, if we don't do theself-examination, and again,
take responsibility, like if youmessed up, you messed up, say it.
(21:41):
Don't.
You got picture, video and handwritingand you said, no, it wasn't me.
Just, just admit it, you know, just,just admit that you messed up because
people will respect you more too.
I, I really believe that.
And especially like intimaterelationships, you know
that that partner will.
Respect you more if your business partner,whatever, like yeah, you know what?
(22:01):
I'm sorry, I skimmed offthe top, or whatever it is.
Or I forgot to do something.
Just say it because who wants to goforward not trusting that person, you
know, that you're going through life with.
Um, and I guess if I were to giveanything else, it would probably be
like, don't be afraid to be called.
On something.
Um, we don't like that.
(22:22):
We don't like the embarrassment that comeswith it, the shame, you know, depending
on what it is, but also speak up forthose who can't speak up for themselves.
Like I said in the beginning ofthe book, there's a lot to unpack.
Yes.
And um, and if you find yourself readingthis book and you see yourself in the
forward, then you need to put my bookdown and go make a phone call or go.
(22:45):
Talk to that person because nine times outof 10 it's gonna spark a memory somewhere.
It may not be that particular one,but it's gonna spark something
that you were privy to, that youshould have said something about.
And you know, you have toaccept the consequences too.
Like I said, we don't want consequences.
We want the positive ones.
We don't want the negative ones, you know?
(23:05):
And I think the more people do thatin general, the less fighting we'll
do, the less bickering, the less.
Hate, you know, um, it's just,I, I just, you know, I just,
I just really love this book.
I read, I read it multipletimes just for myself to remind
myself what I put on paper.
'cause it's not easy to bevulnerable in black and white.
(23:27):
So, and if we weren't recordingthis and I just told y'all what I
told you, and a year, I can say, Idon't know what y'all talking about.
I never said that.
Right.
But yeah.
But putting things in black and white.
You have to be okay with that.
And I, I had to be okay with it.
There's a couple of friends who said,um, like, I shouldn't put scripture
in here because of the title.
'cause like you said,it can be misleading.
(23:50):
But I'm like, no, this God hasbrought me through all of this.
This is how I was able todo what I have to do it.
It's.
It's ref, it's uh, excuseme, it's pertinent scripture.
It's not like I just made it.
Put some scripture inthere to show scripture.
It goes with whatever's goingon in the book, you know,
and, and then say, apologize.
Apologize to yourself becauseyou, you didn't know better.
(24:12):
Maybe you didn't know better.
Maybe there was no outlet for you.
Maybe there wasn't a safespace for you to say whatever.
Do whatever.
Apologize to ask.
Ask God for forgiveness.
And if you have to apologizeto me, I'm here too.
But you know, and or if youdon't have to, if you know, get
it, just get it off your chest.
'cause I don't want youto have that heavy heart.
We can't be productive,you know, in that way.
(24:34):
That is great.
I mean.
I see from your book and from whatyou're saying, it's a book of courage.
'cause it takes a lot of courageto do what you're saying.
Mm-hmm.
Inner courage to talk to people,to hear what they have to say about
you and to respect their opinions,and then to take corrective action.
Mm-hmm.
I hear you saying that.
That's in your book and thatis amazing and beautiful too.
(24:56):
And then I hear you saying another thing.
Forgive yourself, you know?
'cause I know when I look backat myself, I kind of tend to hold
things against myself when I, mm-hmm.
When I think, well, I should havedone this, I should have done that.
I should have done this.
And you're saying go correct it.
There's something you shouldhave said, go tell that person.
Correct.
(25:16):
What you did and get it right.
And if you, if it's too late to correctit, forgive yourself, you know, and, and
just understand that you made a mistakeand don't make the same mistake again.
Exactly.
Yep.
It's great.
It's brilliant.
Yeah.
You have in the book.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Hey, uh, I, I think it's great.
(25:38):
I, uh, to your point,there's a lot in this book.
We, we didn't even get to thoserelationships and things, you know?
Right, right.
I, I mean that, that I was, I wasjust cheesing at a couple of, you
know, not, not because of, of youwhatever, but because of the, the bone.
You know, so,
but, um, where, where can, oh, firstof all, thank you, you know, for
(26:01):
joining us this afternoon there.
Thank you for having me.
I, uh, I really appreciate it.
Where, where can people get your book?
Um, of course, Amazonand Barnes and Noble.
And, um, to give me more royalties, ifyou go on the actual website, virtual.
Virtual bookworm.com.
It's, that's the publisher.
(26:22):
Um, you can get it there, butyeah, and if folks need to reach
out to me personally, they can.
If they wanted an autographcopy, I can do that too.
We are planning for a, a book signing.
Um, it's gonna be in the first of theyear because, um, we're getting ready
to get into the holidays now and there'salso a Spanish version coming out, so,
Ooh, si.
(26:43):
But it's, it's translatedin Spanish as well.
It there?
Here, look at that.
Oh,
you I got,
I got weird autograph.
Yeah.
I've got folks who,you know I translation.
It was, I'm telling you, I'm justreally happy about this book.
Like you said, it's got a lotof good nuggets and as thin as
it is, it's packed with a lot.
(27:05):
It is.
It really is.
It really is.
And I, I, um, I really recommend it.
I'm sure Bernie feels the same way.
Um, now if, if people want to reach out toyou, to your point of getting the signed
copy and all of that, um, and, and inother ways, um, do you do social media?
(27:25):
I do do social media.
So for Instagram, it's Survivor two times.
S-U-R-V-I-V-O-R-T-W-O-T-I-M-E-S.
And then, uh, the other one I have isLaura, a Franklin, and then Facebook,
Laura and Wash Laura and Franklin.
(27:47):
I think that's it.
I I used it because Instagram isconnected, so whatever I post on Instagram
and then if, you know, if they really needto like email me and that's even fine too.
It's Laura Ann Franklin nine19@gmail.com.
So it's L-A-U-R-A-A-N-N,franklin919@gmail.com.
And you need to put in the heading thispodcast so I'll know what you're doing.
(28:10):
Otherwise I'll just delete it, right?
Because I'll think it's probablyspam or something that's trying
to be a scam or whatever.
But yeah, I I definitely, and we can talkabout the saying and everything and, um.
Yeah.
I'm just, I'm just so excited.
I really appreciate y'all having me onand it's so good to see you Mr. Bernie.
I'm glad you were here to, to pullout some more nuggets, you know,
and I'd like to, one day we justhave a round table discussion.
(28:33):
Oh, that would be great.
We could do that.
We could do that.
Okay.
That would be wonderful.
But yeah, so thank,thank you so much, Jesse.
Oh, one more thing.
Before we go, if, if Icould give a call to action.
Sure.
Just to stop, stop allowingpeople to be lenient.
Stop being lenient with people who wasteyour time or who hurt your feelings
(28:54):
for the sake of having a. Friend.
Mm.
Right.
Like we, we allow people totread on us for the sake of
saying, oh, that's my friend.
That's another part of self-examination.
That
why I have no friends.
That's another part ofself-examination ask, you know?
(29:16):
Okay.
Yeah, that's be funny.
And that's the talk of the times.
On behalf of the co-host BernieBrown, we thank you for listening.
And we hope it compels you into actionor triggers some mindful thought
about the times in which we live.
We also invite you to check outthe Logical lawyer, Bernie Brown.
And the It's that part Podcast withyours truly, Jesse Lee Hammonds
(29:40):
wherever you listen to your podcast.
And for even more, Bernie, check outhis book on Amazon, a Prosecutor's
Analysis of Personal SupernaturalExperiences, which is a collection
of fascinating stories awaiting yourverdict of fact fiction fabrication.
Or fantasy you decide.
(30:02):
You can also connect with Bernie onhis website, the logical attorney.me.
That's the logical attorney.me andconnect with me at it's that part.com
where you can also access both.
Podcast and now you've got it.
It's the talk of the Times
at the intersection of logic and truth.
(30:26):
This is the Logical lawyer and it'sthat part, exploring legal, social, and
cultural issues with insight, clarity,and purpose, truth and logic, sharp and
clear insight and hope we bring it here.
(30:47):
Where truth.
Coming up on this editionof the Joint Podcast,
we may not be, you know, we're nottrying to be all things to all people.
But again, if you're in a relationship,whether it's, like I said, if
you're, you're married, you'redating, uh, if you're a leader in
any type of way, you can't be afraidto hear what people have to say.
Now, of course, with social media, um.
(00:23):
There are some people who just gonna,they're gonna drag you no matter what.
Mm-hmm.
That that's what they're there for.
There's always gonna be the antagonist.
Right.
Um, but you, you take it, whateverit is, take it all and pull
out what you need for yourself.
Um, you know, and then
(00:44):
at the intersection of logic and truth,
this is the logical lawyer, and it'sthat part, exploring legal, social, and
cultural issues with insight, clarity,and purpose, truth and logic, sharp and
clear insight and hope we bring it here.
(01:10):
Where truth meet logic in action,
it's the Logical lawyerand it's that part.
Welcome to the Talk of the Times,a joint production of the Logical
Lawyer with host Bernie Brown andthe It's that Part Podcast hosted
by yours truly, Jesse Lee Hammonds.
(01:31):
And although we approached the variousitems and persons of interest from
different backgrounds professionally,Bernie being a prosecutor and former
Los Angeles, California AssistantCity Attorney, as well as a Hall of
Fame member of the John m LangstonBar Association of Los Angeles,
just to name a couple of headliners.
(01:52):
And me, a longtime former manager ofhuman resources and corporate assets at
the Fortune 500 Company, at and t andformer Radio and International Club Jock.
We have a shared commitment toclarity, logic, lawfulness, relevance,
as well as truth in every fact.
(02:12):
All brought together with realconversations amongst ourselves.
And with others about the times inwhich we have and currently live.
It's the talk of the times.
First of all, when you diagnosedwith cancer, the first thing
we think about is death.
It does not matter if it'sfinger cancer, toe cancer.
We think of death because the word cancerjust kind of brings on that thought.
(02:36):
But, um, the, you know, being diagnosedat such an early age, I was 33.
Um.
You know, five babies at home.
They were, I think 12all the way down to four.
And so it was, it was a difficult time,but man, I, when I look back at it now,
the first diagnosis was 24 years ago.
(02:58):
It, and just, and then when I gotdiagnosed the second time that.
Nine, almost 19 years ago.
So, um, but it was, it was harder,I think, as a mom of small children
more than it was as a wife, becauseagain, I thought about death as well.
My mother had breast cancer.
(03:19):
She was diagnosed in the first timein 1990, and then it came back,
I'm not sure how long, but it cameback and it, it was uterine cancer.
And then eventually, um.
Medically speaking, it took her life.
But she said if she, when she died, shesaid, just tell them God, call me home.
So going through that, knowing shehad it, it was in the family, right?
(03:44):
And so having to go through that and lookat my babies and thinking that I wouldn't
see them grow up or get married or thingslike that, that weighed heavier on me.
And leaving them than anything.
But the blessing was, um, I had areally good village and I still do, you
know, my village did rally around me.
(04:05):
Uh, Jesse's wife was one of them, uh,who really rallied around me both times.
Uh, the first time I wasvery private about it.
'cause you know, again, thatgoes back to what goes on in
this house, stays in this house.
But the second time, becausethat was gonna be a lot harder
challenge, more in depth surgeryand everything that came with that.
And now my kids are older.
(04:27):
Right now there's 17 down to like 11 now.
I really, I have to tell everybody now,'cause the first time I didn't tell them.
And so, and the church was involved, likethe whole church was involved this time.
So, um, but like I said, Ithink I really, God chose me.
That's, and I, I do have two other sistersand I, I initially, I wondered why me?
(04:51):
And the Holy Spirit said, why not you?
I asked a second time,why me say it again?
So, but that's part of self-examinationbecause when the second diagnosis came,
the Holy Spirit showed me that there wassomething I didn't learn the first time.
So that's why I had to come backand that's, that's one of the
(05:11):
things I have to take to the grave.
But that's, you mentioned Uhhuh.
Say it again.
You mentioned self-examination.
My mother had breast cancer.
Mm-hmm.
And the first time she discoveredit was through a self-examination.
Mm-hmm.
And see that's how you cando the double play on words.
'cause my self-examination was theself-examination I'm talking about in the
(05:32):
book, not necessarily the physical Yeah.
Self-examination.
But yes.
That too.
And, but just doing that self-reflectionand the, you know, I, when I was in
the hospital the second time, I hadwhat's called my ninth hour experience.
It's in the other book thatI wrote about breast cancer.
And man Oh man, I'm telling youthat's, it was like looking at my life
(05:55):
in four D. And I could see it all.
And then he reminded me,this is why it came back.
This is why I allowed it to came back.
To come back.
Mm. And I was like, couldn't you justtell me like, you can, you can, I
would've accepted the handwriting onthe wall, you know, beside, but again.
We get hardheaded and we don't do the,either the physical self-examination as
(06:18):
females or the, just the self-examinationlooking within and stop blaming other
people and take responsibility forour actions or our lack of action.
Mm-hmm.
And that, yeah.
So, but yeah, it's, I, I thank you forasking the question, um, because that,
you know, we can plug that book later.
Well,
and, and
it is actually all about self-examination.
(06:41):
Mm-hmm.
Difficult and mental.
Yep.
Yep.
Social.
Yep.
What's, what's one simple stepto start self-examination?
Um, kind of maybe doing what I did.
Like I said, talk topeople that you trust.
Don't go to your haters.
Don't always gonna tell youwhat you need to fix, right?
Mm-hmm.
(07:01):
But maybe just a handfulof people, maybe 5, 6, 7.
Like I said, I did about 10 and theywere of different ages and nationalities.
Races, right?
Because I wanted to see if theywould, how different it would be.
Ask those folks to tell youabout yourself a lot of times.
Or often we do not askpeople tell me about myself.
(07:22):
They always say, tell us aboutyour salary job interviews.
Give us a little bit about yourself.
If you go into a job interview, you'renot gonna say, well, you know what?
At my last job I stole like $10,000.
And then, you know, I was ableto pay off a student loan.
And you know, we don't do that.
We talk about what we're capable of.
But if you get some folks you trustthat are in your inner circle to
(07:43):
tell you just about yourself, that's,that's the way to get started.
And then once they tell you,don't brush it off, accept it, and
then start chipping away at it.
Because like I said, um, all of us havetaken advantage of somebody in our lives.
All of us have hurt somebodyintentionally and unintentionally.
All of us have broken rules.
(08:05):
Whether it's behind the wheel,behind the scenes, right.
We've all done something.
And so to walk around and thinkthat we haven't, that's, that's
just living a lie anyway.
'cause all of us as sinned, right?
That's, that's what scripture says.
We've all sinned.
Yeah.
Um, but we've all done something.
And then once you, once you get thatperson or those persons to tell you about
(08:29):
yourself, you accept it, start workingon it, and then when you come out, I,
I also encourage people to journal asthey do this, because you'll forget.
You'll forget.
And the blessing about.
This book is, um, I'd start on achapter, and as you see, you know, each
chapter talks about sex in some way.
And they'd have like a little bylineor something, or, or subtitle.
(08:52):
Mm-hmm.
Um, but I could go back and lookat my journals from before and the
Lord is giving me a decent mindwhere I can kind of recall stuff.
'cause if I'm writing something,it'll spark a memory and then
I can plug it into the book.
And that's, you'll see that, uh, I,I remember when I was nine years old.
Uh, speaking of chapterthree, it's my fault.
It's their fault.
I was taking swimminglessons at nine years old.
(09:13):
I was going across the,the, the swimming pool.
Oh, you got, I I was just getting to, uh,tell you a story about that, you know,
'cause I was, I was looking for 'em.
Like, wait a minute.
She says something about swimming.
Yeah.
Go, go ahead.
Go ahead.
Go ahead.
But, but I'll, I'll steer her.
Okay.
So I was taking swimming lessons becausemy mother said she didn't know how to.
Swim and she, she said we needed tolearn because she couldn't, she wouldn't
(09:36):
be able to save us if we fell in.
So we took swimming lessons andit was a junior Olympic size pool
or probably a college size pool.
And I had to swim.
They have us swim acrossit of the long way.
Right.
'cause that was just too many.
That was what, 50 meters?
Yeah.
And so I did my thing and I was getting,I was almost done with my lessons, right?
'cause you have to swim forward or.
(09:58):
Uh, whatever this, the front strokeand then you had to float on my
back, so I swam across, did fine.
And he says, float back on your back.
Well, I started floating andI got tired and I just let go.
So I was, you know, floating.
And then I just let my legs go becauseI kept, I got tired of just the quick
flapping of my legs and I let go.
(10:20):
And I was in five feet.
And at the time, since I was nine,I was probably only 36 inches.
Maybe four feet tall, maybe 48 inchesfor those wood out there doing the math.
And, um, the water was above myhead, and water was below me,
so I couldn't touch the bottom.
So I was literally suspended withprobably a foot of, uh, or yeah, a foot
(10:41):
of water above me and a foot of waterbelow me with the bottom pool, taking
pool, taking water, taking in water.
I was in the water.
Mm-hmm.
You were taking, were you taking anyOh, no, I wasn't taking in the water.
I was holding my breath becauseI was very good at that breath.
As long as you could.
And I just, and I just sat thereand I was just like, and I'm looking
up 'cause I couldn't bounce right.
To try to push myself up and it, itdidn't dawn on me to flap my arms.
(11:04):
I just sat there and I'm lookingaround like, okay, I guess this
is how I'm gonna die, but I'mholding my breath the whole time.
And I wasn't panicked or anything.
I was just there like, okay,eventually somebody gonna come get me.
And eventually it did.
The instructor jumped in andpulled me out and they took me to
the opposite end of where he was.
He yelled at me, he lookedlike Terry Cruz, and he was
(11:26):
like, I told you not to stop.
I told you to keep going.
And I'm on the other side crying,not because I almost drowned.
I'm crying because.
He was yelling at me.
Mm. Because I was literallyat peace under all that water.
I was just, I'm telling you, youhave, I wish I could show you.
And I just sat there.
Just somebody's coming.
I'm just looking.
(11:47):
And um, yeah.
So that was, that was my fault, right?
I stopped.
I should have kept going.
I knew how to.
Swim, but why I didn't react likeI should have and try to like
flat my arms and bring me up.
That didn't, it didn't make sense to me.
It just didn't.
And then it was his fault too, 'cause heshould have jumped in and got me sooner.
(12:07):
Well, a little levity onthat particular point there.
Uh, I don't know how old, old I was.
I was very young.
YMCA.
Mom and my sister, theywere learning how to swim.
So, uh, we were learninghow to swim as well.
And, um, I was, uh, pickedup and tossed into the water.
(12:29):
Mm. Uh, I was back in thosedays, I, I had, uh, a, a very bad
temper and I would hold a grudge.
Oh, I was, I was mad at the world.
Because, you know, I was scared Iwas taking on water and I didn't want
(12:53):
to even try learning swimming again.
But me being Jesse, I tried it again,uh, this time at the, down the street
at the, the local, uh, swimming pool.
And this was when I, Istarted noticing girls.
Okay.
And so I said, well, I'm going to.
(13:15):
Run up to this thing, and I'm going todo a, a nice, you know, high dive in
this pool and, you know, show off and,oh, man, I started drinking the water.
All right.
I got out of there and after Icoughed it up enough, uh, and started
walking back home with my leg, my, mytail between my legs and everything
(13:37):
with people laughing, I'm like,okay, I'm not gonna do that again.
Fast forward quickly.
And last one, I was in the Philippines.
Mm.
And uh, we were there on assignment, um,and uh, after we launched the Jets and
everything, uh, we would go back to thehotel that they were holding us up in.
(13:58):
And so everyone was havinga good time and everything.
Uh, Sam, Miguel, and, you know,the whole nine yards red horse.
And, uh, we are diving into the pool now.
Me.
I am diving into the pool.
This goes to, uh, uh, uh, the,the, the, the, the shallow water
part that, that you were speakingof, or swimming to the other side.
Mm-hmm.
(14:18):
I would dive in off the divingboard now and then I would curl.
And, and kick and, and, and justkind of cruise over to the edge.
I did that a number of times, butthen I, I guess I got full and uh,
I said, well, you know, I'm goingto go, go for a no splash situation.
(14:41):
Okay.
So I go, I jump off the board andI go straight up a belly flopper.
Pardon me?
A belly flopper.
No, no, no.
I was trying to go for 10, you know.
No scratch.
And, uh, and so I went upand I went straight down.
Whoa.
Now this pool was, you know, hotel pool.
(15:03):
This was like 10 or 12 feet down.
So I hit the water.
And as soon as I hit that water withmy hands, I'm like, oh no, I'm going
straight down instead of curling over.
And I'm like, oh my God.
Okay.
So I said, okay, calm, just keep kickingand you're gonna get to the bottom and
(15:28):
then you can push yourself back up.
Okay?
So I did that and I wasin shape in those days.
And so I pushed up andI'm kicking, kicking.
I'm not kicking, and I didn't pushover to the left or to the right.
I pushed straight up.
So I'm kicking, kicking, kicking,kicking, kicking, kicking.
(15:51):
When is it coming?
And my fingers were notbreaking air up here.
Yeah.
And then it finally broke some air.
And I got up, uh, enoughheight to say, whoa,
me and I, and I was trying to make some,some, some noise and whatever, you know,
(16:15):
and eventually someone did come get meas they were laughing and everything
and pull me out and I'm coughing upwater and stuff 'cause I'm drinking it.
You know, I'm like, Lord, I, I did pray.
I said, Lord, please don't let me diedown here in the Philippines like this.
Right, right.
I I was not at peace.
Uh, uh, uh, uh, sister Laura.
(16:37):
I was like, man, I'm, I'mdown here sinning, you know,
don't take me like this.
So, so, but anyway,that was, that was fun.
Yeah, well when I read that chapterI said, oh man, that was me.
But I wasn't that piece.
Yeah.
I may as well
give you just one mic, quick story sinceyou guys are talking about swimming.
(16:59):
I was taking swimming lessons, learninghow to swim, and I'd gotten to the
point where I could jump in the deepend and I'm gonna say mine fast.
Mm. And how to dog pedal.
But similar to Laura, Ijumped in and I went down.
And I froze.
Ooh.
And I, I felt like I didn't know.
(17:20):
I couldn't get to the side, get back up,and in the middle of it all, I'm staring.
I'm like, boy, you know,I'm not at peace though.
Like you, Laura,
I'm starting to panic.
I'm like, oh, no, no, no.
I felt someone pull my feet.
At least I saw somebody pull myfoot and then I snapped out of it.
(17:42):
Hmm.
And just started dog felling and SW swamto the top and swed over and swam over.
So, interesting.
Oh, we all have our swim through.
Well, that's supernatural right there.
Right,
right,
right,
right.
We're gonna talk about that,that in the book again.
Yeah.
Okay.
(18:03):
So, um, let's see here.
Uh, we're getting down to, uh, the end.
We've, we've covered, you know,you know, the, the, a simple step
to start the self-examination.
And, and I think that that's key.
(18:24):
Um, now, um, what else would you have orwould you hope that listeners take away
from this book and in fact, even thisconversation that they will carry with
them, you know, long into the future for,for the rest of their lives, if anything.
(18:48):
And you know, Mr. Bernie touched on it.
Self-examination is lifelong.
Mm-hmm.
It does.
'cause we never arrive, right?
We, we reach destinations or we reachthe end of a particular part of the
journey, but it doesn't stop till we die.
Really, self-examination is alwaysongoing and not, not to be afraid to
(19:10):
know the truth about yourself, you know?
Um, and if, and if it's just you inthe mirror and you're saying yourself.
Proclamations or you're saying you'reencouraging words or whatever it is,
that's fine too, but don't, it's alwaysbetter to have someone else to kind of
show you, uh, things you might be missing.
(19:32):
'cause we probably think we'rethe best thing since sliced bread.
But truth be told, and we may not be.
You know, and we're not tryingto be all things to all people.
But again, if you're in a relationship,whether it's, like I said, if
you're, you're married, you'redating, uh, if you're a leader in
any type of way, you can't be afraidto hear what people have to say.
(19:53):
Now, of course, with social media, um,there are some people who just gonna,
they're gonna drag you no matter what.
Mm-hmm.
Because that, that'swhat they're there for.
There's always gonna be the antagonist.
Right.
Um, but you, you take it, whatever it is.
Take it all and pull outwhat you need for yourself.
Um, you know, and then for,and by my book, and then also,
(20:17):
right?
Um, but also be honest.
Don't just, I mean, likereally say, Hey, you know what?
You messed up yesterday.
That wasn't someone else's fault.
That, that, that, that reportdidn't get done on time.
I should have taken the reins.
And done whatever.
If you see somebody falling or they'resinking and you don't help 'em, it's
(20:38):
almost like one of my favorite songs.
He says, well, I, you told me whenyou told me you were drowning.
I didn't lend a hand.
You know, I, so we're part of the problem.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
You know, um, and so also, likeI said, I think journaling, you
know, uh, that that's therapeuticin itself, you know, and it doesn't
have to be a journal anyone reads.
(20:59):
So I would say once you fillup one of 'em, burn it, you
know, the right way or Right.
Correctly.
And then 'cause you, you're done with it.
But if you're the kind who likesto reflect, like I did, that's how
I was able to write the books thatI've written, is that I journal.
Then I go back and say, I remembersaying something about it.
And if you don't wanna do a journal,put it on your memo pad on your phone.
(21:19):
Um, and then, like I said, start walkingin that don't, you know, don't go
backwards 'cause none of us have that.
We have more time behind usthan we do ahead of us, right?
Um, and life is gonna keeplife in no matter what.
And if, if we don't do theself-examination, and again,
take responsibility, like if youmessed up, you messed up, say it.
(21:41):
Don't.
You got picture, video and handwritingand you said, no, it wasn't me.
Just, just admit it, you know, just,just admit that you messed up because
people will respect you more too.
I, I really believe that.
And especially like intimaterelationships, you know
that that partner will.
Respect you more if your business partner,whatever, like yeah, you know what?
(22:01):
I'm sorry, I skimmed offthe top, or whatever it is.
Or I forgot to do something.
Just say it because who wants to goforward not trusting that person, you
know, that you're going through life with.
Um, and I guess if I were to giveanything else, it would probably be
like, don't be afraid to be called.
On something.
Um, we don't like that.
(22:22):
We don't like the embarrassment that comeswith it, the shame, you know, depending
on what it is, but also speak up forthose who can't speak up for themselves.
Like I said in the beginning ofthe book, there's a lot to unpack.
Yes.
And um, and if you find yourself readingthis book and you see yourself in the
forward, then you need to put my bookdown and go make a phone call or go.
(22:45):
Talk to that person because nine times outof 10 it's gonna spark a memory somewhere.
It may not be that particular one,but it's gonna spark something
that you were privy to, that youshould have said something about.
And you know, you have toaccept the consequences too.
Like I said, we don't want consequences.
We want the positive ones.
We don't want the negative ones, you know?
(23:05):
And I think the more people do thatin general, the less fighting we'll
do, the less bickering, the less.
Hate, you know, um, it's just,I, I just, you know, I just,
I just really love this book.
I read, I read it multipletimes just for myself to remind
myself what I put on paper.
'cause it's not easy to bevulnerable in black and white.
(23:27):
So, and if we weren't recordingthis and I just told y'all what I
told you, and a year, I can say, Idon't know what y'all talking about.
I never said that.
Right.
But yeah.
But putting things in black and white.
You have to be okay with that.
And I, I had to be okay with it.
There's a couple of friends who said,um, like, I shouldn't put scripture
in here because of the title.
'cause like you said,it can be misleading.
(23:50):
But I'm like, no, this God hasbrought me through all of this.
This is how I was able todo what I have to do it.
It's.
It's ref, it's uh, excuseme, it's pertinent scripture.
It's not like I just made it.
Put some scripture inthere to show scripture.
It goes with whatever's goingon in the book, you know,
and, and then say, apologize.
Apologize to yourself becauseyou, you didn't know better.
(24:12):
Maybe you didn't know better.
Maybe there was no outlet for you.
Maybe there wasn't a safespace for you to say whatever.
Do whatever.
Apologize to ask.
Ask God for forgiveness.
And if you have to apologizeto me, I'm here too.
But you know, and or if youdon't have to, if you know, get
it, just get it off your chest.
'cause I don't want youto have that heavy heart.
We can't be productive,you know, in that way.
(24:34):
That is great.
I mean.
I see from your book and from whatyou're saying, it's a book of courage.
'cause it takes a lot of courageto do what you're saying.
Mm-hmm.
Inner courage to talk to people,to hear what they have to say about
you and to respect their opinions,and then to take corrective action.
Mm-hmm.
I hear you saying that.
That's in your book and thatis amazing and beautiful too.
(24:56):
And then I hear you saying another thing.
Forgive yourself, you know?
'cause I know when I look backat myself, I kind of tend to hold
things against myself when I, mm-hmm.
When I think, well, I should havedone this, I should have done that.
I should have done this.
And you're saying go correct it.
There's something you shouldhave said, go tell that person.
Correct.
(25:16):
What you did and get it right.
And if you, if it's too late to correctit, forgive yourself, you know, and, and
just understand that you made a mistakeand don't make the same mistake again.
Exactly.
Yep.
It's great.
It's brilliant.
Yeah.
You have in the book.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Hey, uh, I, I think it's great.
(25:38):
I, uh, to your point,there's a lot in this book.
We, we didn't even get to thoserelationships and things, you know?
Right, right.
I, I mean that, that I was, I wasjust cheesing at a couple of, you
know, not, not because of, of youwhatever, but because of the, the bone.
You know, so,
but, um, where, where can, oh, firstof all, thank you, you know, for
(26:01):
joining us this afternoon there.
Thank you for having me.
I, uh, I really appreciate it.
Where, where can people get your book?
Um, of course, Amazonand Barnes and Noble.
And, um, to give me more royalties, ifyou go on the actual website, virtual.
Virtual bookworm.com.
It's, that's the publisher.
(26:22):
Um, you can get it there, butyeah, and if folks need to reach
out to me personally, they can.
If they wanted an autographcopy, I can do that too.
We are planning for a, a book signing.
Um, it's gonna be in the first of theyear because, um, we're getting ready
to get into the holidays now and there'salso a Spanish version coming out, so,
Ooh, si.
(26:43):
But it's, it's translatedin Spanish as well.
It there?
Here, look at that.
Oh,
you I got,
I got weird autograph.
Yeah.
I've got folks who,you know I translation.
It was, I'm telling you, I'm justreally happy about this book.
Like you said, it's got a lotof good nuggets and as thin as
it is, it's packed with a lot.
(27:05):
It is.
It really is.
It really is.
And I, I, um, I really recommend it.
I'm sure Bernie feels the same way.
Um, now if, if people want to reach out toyou, to your point of getting the signed
copy and all of that, um, and, and inother ways, um, do you do social media?
(27:25):
I do do social media.
So for Instagram, it's Survivor two times.
S-U-R-V-I-V-O-R-T-W-O-T-I-M-E-S.
And then, uh, the other one I have isLaura, a Franklin, and then Facebook,
Laura and Wash Laura and Franklin.
(27:47):
I think that's it.
I I used it because Instagram isconnected, so whatever I post on Instagram
and then if, you know, if they really needto like email me and that's even fine too.
It's Laura Ann Franklin nine19@gmail.com.
So it's L-A-U-R-A-A-N-N,franklin919@gmail.com.
And you need to put in the heading thispodcast so I'll know what you're doing.
(28:10):
Otherwise I'll just delete it, right?
Because I'll think it's probablyspam or something that's trying
to be a scam or whatever.
But yeah, I I definitely, and we can talkabout the saying and everything and, um.
Yeah.
I'm just, I'm just so excited.
I really appreciate y'all having me onand it's so good to see you Mr. Bernie.
I'm glad you were here to, to pullout some more nuggets, you know,
and I'd like to, one day we justhave a round table discussion.
(28:33):
Oh, that would be great.
We could do that.
We could do that.
Okay.
That would be wonderful.
But yeah, so thank,thank you so much, Jesse.
Oh, one more thing.
Before we go, if, if Icould give a call to action.
Sure.
Just to stop, stop allowingpeople to be lenient.
Stop being lenient with people who wasteyour time or who hurt your feelings
(28:54):
for the sake of having a. Friend.
Mm.
Right.
Like we, we allow people totread on us for the sake of
saying, oh, that's my friend.
That's another part of self-examination.
That
why I have no friends.
That's another part ofself-examination ask, you know?
(29:16):
Okay.
Yeah, that's be funny.
And that's the talk of the times.
On behalf of the co-host BernieBrown, we thank you for listening.
And we hope it compels you into actionor triggers some mindful thought
about the times in which we live.
We also invite you to check outthe Logical lawyer, Bernie Brown.
And the It's that part Podcast withyours truly, Jesse Lee Hammonds
(29:40):
wherever you listen to your podcast.
And for even more, Bernie, check outhis book on Amazon, a Prosecutor's
Analysis of Personal SupernaturalExperiences, which is a collection
of fascinating stories awaiting yourverdict of fact fiction fabrication.
Or fantasy you decide.
(30:02):
You can also connect with Bernie onhis website, the logical attorney.me.
That's the logical attorney.me andconnect with me at it's that part.com
where you can also access both.
Podcast and now you've got it.
It's the talk of the Times
at the intersection of logic and truth.
(30:26):
This is the Logical lawyer and it'sthat part, exploring legal, social, and
cultural issues with insight, clarity,and purpose, truth and logic, sharp and
clear insight and hope we bring it here.
(30:47):
Where truth.
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