September 2, 2025 • 27 mins
Behind every legal victory lies a hidden war. In this episode, Michele Anderson—incoming president of the California Women Lawyers Association—joins Bernie Brown to expose the deeply ingrained biases women face in the courtroom. From being mistaken for court reporters to being silenced for showing emotion, Michele shares personal experiences and systemic statistics that reveal just how far we still have to go. Only 39.5% of lawyers are women. Only 2% are Black women in California. The numbers don’t lie. But this episode isn’t just about injustice—it’s about change. Learn what CWL is doing through legislation, advocacy, and leadership to rewrite the legal narrative for women and girls.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Alrighty.
(00:01):
Hello there.
My name is Bernie Brown.
Welcome to the Logical Lawyer Podcast.
We have an outstanding show for you today.
Today we will be interviewing the incomingpresident of the California Women Lawyers
Association, Southwestern School of Law,associate Professor Michelle Anderson.
(00:24):
She is a dynamic person, agreat leader in our community.
Uh, today, uh, Michelle and I are going todo a logical analysis of women in the law,
and we are going to expose, prejudice, thebiases, the unfairness that women face in
the legal profession, and how things arechanging to make it better for all women
(00:51):
and to make it easier for women to becomelawyers in this great state of California.
So let's get it on.
Hello, Michelle.
How are you?
I'm great.
How are you?
I'm pretty good.
I'm pretty good.
Okay.
So you're the incoming president.
This is great.
When do you assume your role as president?
Well, I'm sworn in on November 8th,2025, but I do not assume my official
(01:16):
duties until January 1st, 2026.
I will be the 53rd presidentof California women lawyers.
Wow.
The 53rd, I'm just curious.
Uh, any of the other ones been black?
We have had four other black presidentsin the 53 years of its history.
(01:40):
Let me ask you a question.
What, what, uh, what do you do as thepresident, uh, of this great organization?
Well, the president has many.
Many roles.
It is a statewide organizationthat, uh, was organized since 1974,
but it represents the interestof more than 70,000 women in all
(02:04):
facets of the legal profession.
So we try to influence lawyers,educators, students, and judges.
We provide support and commitmentto the individual career goals
of women and the collective goalsof women in the law and society.
As president, I am responsible forconducting all of the meetings of
(02:29):
the board, um, and arranging for, um.
Executive outings andother specialty things.
Uh, along with that, uh, we have alegislative advocacy, um, team, and so
I am responsible for also advocatingfor policies that support women's rights
(02:53):
and improve the legal environment.
So our legal.
Legislative advocacy group often weighsin on amicus briefs, um, legislation
that impacts women and, um, girls even.
Um, that supports our collective purpose.
(03:15):
We've had a lot of, um,legislation regarding pay equity,
uh, legislation regarding, um.
The abortion pills, legislationregarding protecting medical professions,
rendering, um, emergency care to, uh,women, um, in their reproductive rights.
(03:39):
We've had legislation regarding, um,menstruation products for young girls
in school who are unable to, um, affordthose products and making them available.
So we have that.
In addition to that, we do,um, we support, uh, women's
rights in the legal environment.
(03:59):
We do networking and support.
Um, we provide them with, uh, resourcesto help them advance in their career.
We promote equality, so we try toeliminate inequities based on gender.
Uh, we encourage womento seek leadership roles.
(04:19):
Uh, we collaborate with other barassociations and, um, help spread our
resources as far as we can to empowerwomen to up, rise and uplift women.
Wow, I never knew youwere doing all of that.
That is great.
It sounds like you've got the women'sbacks covered, that you've got
(04:43):
that they are well represented byyour actions and your organization.
Let me just ask you this question 'causeI did a little research, but I'll ask
you some que, what is the current statusof representation of women in the law?
How are women doing
well?
We're doing okay, butwe can always do better.
(05:04):
And by that what I mean isthere's a 174.5 million males.
We are 172.78 millionfemales in the United States.
So the male population is 50%compared to 49% of the female.
(05:28):
Population.
So there's 1.72 millionmore males than females.
So we have the seventh largestpopulation of women in the in the world.
But, well, you know, oh, I'm sorry.
Go ahead.
When we go to that, and you look at thelegal profession, only 39.5% of the women,
(05:54):
of the more than 1.3 million lawyers.
The legal profession are women.
You know, I, I did a little statisticalresearch myself and I, I gotta
tell you, I was, I was floored.
Uh, I, I, I looked at first, uh, whatpercentage of women are lawyers in the
(06:17):
state of California, and it sounded great.
It's 45% of California lawyers are women.
It is furst.
What it used to be, you know,years ago when it was really a male
dominated, but here's what hit me.
Only 2% of California's womenlawyers are black, only 2%.
(06:42):
And that, that, that, that reallyshook me to the core and only, uh,
uh, and I, well, I hate to just, well,okay, let me just say it right up.
Black men lawyers, which isnot our subject for today.
Only 1% 1% of California's lawyers aremade up composed of black male lawyers.
(07:08):
So, I mean, that really blew me away,uh, with regard to women lawyers.
And then it is similar with regard to,uh, with regard to black women lawyers
and with regard to, uh, even Latinos.
Only 3% of California lawyersare, are made up of Latino women.
So it looks like, even though we'vemade a a lot of progress, because about
(07:32):
45% of California's women lawyers ofCalifornia's lawyers are women, but with
regard to minority representation, itseems like we still have a long way to go.
We do.
And the statistics.
Also even further skewed because ifyou look at Native American women
(07:55):
lawyers, they're less than, uh, 8%.
Okay.
And, uh, I mean, point
Yeah, that's what I wasthinking that point.
At that point.
Point,
the point.
That's less
than 1%.
And then with, with the Asianwomen lawyers, I mean, they've made
greater strides than all of us.
(08:15):
As far as the ethnic minorities,they're, they're almost at 5%.
Mm-hmm.
But what is really sad iswhen you go through the bigger
percentages for the big jobs, okay.
Not just lawyers, we may be 49%or whatever of lawyers, but if you
look at the partnerships or jobs andcorporations, we only are less than 5%.
(08:43):
Women of color only makeup 5% of the top drops, so
That's true.
Um, and that's, that's a lot based on, um,
if you add in other things, you know,which we don't even have to get to,
like disability and other things likethat, the numbers drop even further.
(09:05):
But, um.
We, it suggests our, our statisticssuggests that yes, we've come a long way.
We're doing a lot to increase inclusivity.
However, we are still, um, usingtraditional roles and things
(09:28):
to discriminate against women.
Um.
I remember even as a younglawyer being asked inappropriate
questions in job interviews.
Um.
My husband and I were at sometimesinterviewing for the same
positions, and I'd be asked aboutmy childcare responsibilities.
(09:52):
And even though I'd be very upset aboutit, I'd try to laugh it off and say, well,
you know, I don't have to worry aboutthat because my husband has the childcare
responsibilities or things like that.
I knew it was very wrong, buta lot of law firms, um, think.
Women are gonna be on the mommy track, andso therefore we can't, we can't possibly
(10:19):
let this person be a partner becauseshe may have a baby and then she'll be
at the school play or music functionand will miss out on a major case.
There's still that type of thinkingrather than thinking that, uh, women.
(10:40):
If given the opportunity, theyknow how to juggle these roles.
They know how to be, bring home thebacon and be the mommy and the wife.
They know how to make that balancein their households and they
do it effectively and in factthey're very effective, but the
(11:02):
stereotypes still hold them back.
And so there also, uh, tend to, if awoman raises her voice in a matter,
they wanna call her a, a name, a, a,that, that begins with a B, you know?
(11:23):
Um, she's unprofessional, she's loud,she's especially women of color.
She's unprofessional.
She's loud.
She, um, doesn't knowhow to handle herself.
If you distribute the least bit ofempathy, then you're too emotional.
(11:47):
But what are you gonna do, counselor?
Are you gonna cry?
I actually heard that said by a judgeto one of my colleagues in a case when
my colleague was simply advocating.
Her position for her victim.
(12:08):
And the judge literally said,and I couldn't believe my ears,
are you gonna cry, counselor?
And my colleague was like,of course I'm not gonna cry.
Are you crazy?
You know?
Mm-hmm.
But, um, you know, I'm a professional.
I'm not gonna cry.
(12:29):
But these are the roles thatpeople stereotype and nail you
into a corner, um, with, well,
well, what can we do?
I mean, uh, what can be done tocorrect the situation to change it?
I mean, other than, uh, arise inwhat you're doing right now, you're
(12:50):
raising our consciousness, raisingour awareness of what's going on.
What else?
Is there anything else we can do?
Uh, you mentioned a lot of actionsthat you're, that you're going to be
taking as president of the association.
Well, I think that, um, we haveto keep providing educational
(13:11):
programs because a lot of thisis unconscious and implicit bias.
And until you unwrap yourunconscious and implicit bias.
You can't address it.
So, you know, there's many ofpeople that don't know that
there are a male chauvinist pig.
(13:32):
I mean, it's just flat out they thinkwomen should be barefoot pregnant
and in, in the kitchen at all times.
And when you try to tell them thatyes, women have the bandwidth to
do something other than, you know,uh, childbirth and child rearing.
They're, they're amazed or they'relike, oh, I stand corrected.
(13:53):
I'm sorry.
Um, it's, it's the situationthat I think of, um, which kind
of gives a good illustration.
I remember thinking I wasdressed to kill for court now on.
(14:17):
You know, when I would go to trial,I had certain suits that I thought
gave me that certain P possess.
I had a red colored one that I worefor closing argument because I always
thought I looked really good andit was dynamic and boom, you know,
it was gonna give the extra push.
But I had my briefcaseand you know, my pumps.
(14:40):
I thought I looked good and I putmy hair up and you know, my nice
professional hairdo and had all theindicia that I was the attorney ready
to come in for court for action.
I entered the courtroom, I went,I sat down at counsel table,
(15:01):
got ready to prepare myself.
I was there nice and early becausethe early bird gets the worm.
I opened up my trial notebook.
I was reviewing my motions in limine andall the questions that I was gonna ask and
was gonna prevail on, and right next tome was the defense counsel with his client
(15:29):
and because of his implicit unconscious.
Maybe even racist, racist bias.
He just thought I was the courtreporter, the clerk, or maybe he
even thought I was a defendant.
I don't know who the hell he thoughtI was, but he's talking openly and
(15:54):
loudly enough for me to hear everythinghe had to say with his client.
And it went something like this.
Well, if the prosecution asks youthis question, of course you're
gonna have to answer like this.
And if you say this, you can't say that.
And he's advising his client of allthe things not to say and what to do
(16:19):
and what to say and how to say it.
And I'm just writing downeverything he's saying.
I'm like, Ooh, this is.
So the judge finally takes the benchbecause the judge was running a
little late, and the attorney rudelysays to the court, I've been waiting
(16:40):
for the prosecutor to be here allmorning, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And I chime in, your honor,he hasn't been waiting for me.
I've been here since seven 30
to which his face drops.
He wants the claim unfair, da da da da da.
(17:02):
And I say, it's not my problem that youdon't know who I am, or you think I'm
somebody else, so what are we gonna do?
Needless to say, I've never seenwaiver forms come out so fast.
Heled his crying because he had no choice.
(17:22):
I knew.
If I asked any of those questions, whichwas gonna be my number one question, his
client would have to answer the way hetold them to and the case would be over.
So that's a story ofunconscious implicit bias.
(17:43):
I've heard it told by judges,I've heard it told by other, uh,
minority women walking into court.
Somebody mis identifies whothey are just because of who
they are, and it's a big mistake
(18:03):
that is profound, just absolutelyprofound and amazingly, it, it,
it kinda highlights, it brings outall of his biases and prejudices
and how they worked against himbecause ordinarily he could have.
Claim some kind of client, you know,attorney client privilege, but he couldn't
do it because he was in open court.
(18:24):
He assumed that you were the counseland he spoke out in, in front of you
because it, he just assumed that youcould not be the attorney, you know?
And then he waived his, his right to turnclient privilege and basically jeopardized
his, his client's position in thecourtroom, all because of his prejudice.
(18:47):
Bias.
Ah, that's an outstanding story.
That is great Michelle.
It's been wonderful.
Is there anything elseyou wanna tell us about?
Anything else you wanna say?
'cause I'm listening to you andnow I feel hope that we will reach
equality, that we are moving forwardin gender equality in the law.
(19:12):
Anything else elseyou'd like to say to us?
Well, I would like to say, I think weshould be proud that we have, you know,
four female Supreme Court justices.
Yes.
Okay.
I, I think that's a bigaccomplishment to have them on the
bench because we've only had six
(19:37):
team, so we're still.
Struggling, but we're making some strides.
Um, I would say that, uh, I would hopethat we would have a female president.
I don't know if I'llsee it in my lifetime.
I would, I would love to see it, butI looked at Hillary Clinton, who was
(20:02):
one of the most accomplished womenin our lifetime, and she wasn't.
Good enough.
And then we had the second, oneof the second most accomplished
women, which was Kamala Harris.
And she wasn't deemed ready.
(20:23):
So is it that America isn't ready becausewe had a white person and a black person
both run, is it, is it their gender?
Is it their race?
Will the first.
Woman president, be Republican.
Does it have to be, is it theirideology or is it their gender?
(20:48):
So that's, that's the big questionthat I wanna know for presidency,
because right now I feel like, um,
we had two incredible femalecandidates and we were just not ready.
Yeah.
I can tell you honestly, honestly.
There were times when I spoke with,uh, young men on, uh, on the down
(21:13):
low, and they would say that theysimply would not vote for a female
president just because she was female.
Had nothing to do, didn't care howqualified she was, didn't care how,
uh, experienced her educationalbackground or her political position.
They did not care.
(21:33):
They simply were biased againsther because she was a female.
And the shocking thing, I spoketo women with the same philosophy.
I spoke to women who said, oh, I don'tthink a woman should be president.
I know, I, I, you know, I, I fought mybest to try to change their position.
(21:55):
But, uh, that ideology, thatphilosophy, those beliefs are
still out there in our community.
I think they're taught from a very youngage, and it's unfortunate, and we gotta
work on it because we deserve the best ofthe best no matter what their gender is.
That's what we deserve.
(22:17):
So with that.
Thank you so much for joining us today.
Uh, you are an inspirationto all women in the world.
The time has come when we stoptreating our queens like second
class humans and start giving themequality in all aspects of society.
(22:40):
Sexism and racism area disgrace to humanity.
It is time.
We get rid of thisignorance once and for all.
I appreciate what you aredoing to promote, to fight
for equality and inclusion.
I do appreciate you, Michelle.
(23:00):
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Alrighty, well you've heard it today.
I welcome your comments atthe Logical lawyer@gmail.com.
The webpage is the Logical attorney.me.
The book is a prosecutor's analysis ofPersonal supernatural experiences, and the
webpage is the supernatural attorney.net.
(23:21):
And guess what?
Don't forget my brother, mybrother podcaster, his podcast
is called, it's that part.
His name is Jesse Hammond.
He is very, very, he's verylogical and he is outspoken.
He speaks the truth.
(23:42):
Uh, and so I highly recommendthat you, join in and listen
to it's that part, a podcast.
It's been a pleasure.
We have been blessed tohave you here, Michelle.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Alrighty.
(00:01):
Hello there.
My name is Bernie Brown.
Welcome to the Logical Lawyer Podcast.
We have an outstanding show for you today.
Today we will be interviewing the incomingpresident of the California Women Lawyers
Association, Southwestern School of Law,associate Professor Michelle Anderson.
(00:24):
She is a dynamic person, agreat leader in our community.
Uh, today, uh, Michelle and I are going todo a logical analysis of women in the law,
and we are going to expose, prejudice, thebiases, the unfairness that women face in
the legal profession, and how things arechanging to make it better for all women
(00:51):
and to make it easier for women to becomelawyers in this great state of California.
So let's get it on.
Hello, Michelle.
How are you?
I'm great.
How are you?
I'm pretty good.
I'm pretty good.
Okay.
So you're the incoming president.
This is great.
When do you assume your role as president?
Well, I'm sworn in on November 8th,2025, but I do not assume my official
(01:16):
duties until January 1st, 2026.
I will be the 53rd presidentof California women lawyers.
Wow.
The 53rd, I'm just curious.
Uh, any of the other ones been black?
We have had four other black presidentsin the 53 years of its history.
(01:40):
Let me ask you a question.
What, what, uh, what do you do as thepresident, uh, of this great organization?
Well, the president has many.
Many roles.
It is a statewide organizationthat, uh, was organized since 1974,
but it represents the interestof more than 70,000 women in all
(02:04):
facets of the legal profession.
So we try to influence lawyers,educators, students, and judges.
We provide support and commitmentto the individual career goals
of women and the collective goalsof women in the law and society.
As president, I am responsible forconducting all of the meetings of
(02:29):
the board, um, and arranging for, um.
Executive outings andother specialty things.
Uh, along with that, uh, we have alegislative advocacy, um, team, and so
I am responsible for also advocatingfor policies that support women's rights
(02:53):
and improve the legal environment.
So our legal.
Legislative advocacy group often weighsin on amicus briefs, um, legislation
that impacts women and, um, girls even.
Um, that supports our collective purpose.
(03:15):
We've had a lot of, um,legislation regarding pay equity,
uh, legislation regarding, um.
The abortion pills, legislationregarding protecting medical professions,
rendering, um, emergency care to, uh,women, um, in their reproductive rights.
(03:39):
We've had legislation regarding, um,menstruation products for young girls
in school who are unable to, um, affordthose products and making them available.
So we have that.
In addition to that, we do,um, we support, uh, women's
rights in the legal environment.
(03:59):
We do networking and support.
Um, we provide them with, uh, resourcesto help them advance in their career.
We promote equality, so we try toeliminate inequities based on gender.
Uh, we encourage womento seek leadership roles.
(04:19):
Uh, we collaborate with other barassociations and, um, help spread our
resources as far as we can to empowerwomen to up, rise and uplift women.
Wow, I never knew youwere doing all of that.
That is great.
It sounds like you've got the women'sbacks covered, that you've got
(04:43):
that they are well represented byyour actions and your organization.
Let me just ask you this question 'causeI did a little research, but I'll ask
you some que, what is the current statusof representation of women in the law?
How are women doing
well?
We're doing okay, butwe can always do better.
(05:04):
And by that what I mean isthere's a 174.5 million males.
We are 172.78 millionfemales in the United States.
So the male population is 50%compared to 49% of the female.
(05:28):
Population.
So there's 1.72 millionmore males than females.
So we have the seventh largestpopulation of women in the in the world.
But, well, you know, oh, I'm sorry.
Go ahead.
When we go to that, and you look at thelegal profession, only 39.5% of the women,
(05:54):
of the more than 1.3 million lawyers.
The legal profession are women.
You know, I, I did a little statisticalresearch myself and I, I gotta
tell you, I was, I was floored.
Uh, I, I, I looked at first, uh, whatpercentage of women are lawyers in the
(06:17):
state of California, and it sounded great.
It's 45% of California lawyers are women.
It is furst.
What it used to be, you know,years ago when it was really a male
dominated, but here's what hit me.
Only 2% of California's womenlawyers are black, only 2%.
(06:42):
And that, that, that, that reallyshook me to the core and only, uh,
uh, and I, well, I hate to just, well,okay, let me just say it right up.
Black men lawyers, which isnot our subject for today.
Only 1% 1% of California's lawyers aremade up composed of black male lawyers.
(07:08):
So, I mean, that really blew me away,uh, with regard to women lawyers.
And then it is similar with regard to,uh, with regard to black women lawyers
and with regard to, uh, even Latinos.
Only 3% of California lawyersare, are made up of Latino women.
So it looks like, even though we'vemade a a lot of progress, because about
(07:32):
45% of California's women lawyers ofCalifornia's lawyers are women, but with
regard to minority representation, itseems like we still have a long way to go.
We do.
And the statistics.
Also even further skewed because ifyou look at Native American women
(07:55):
lawyers, they're less than, uh, 8%.
Okay.
And, uh, I mean, point
Yeah, that's what I wasthinking that point.
At that point.
Point,
the point.
That's less
than 1%.
And then with, with the Asianwomen lawyers, I mean, they've made
greater strides than all of us.
(08:15):
As far as the ethnic minorities,they're, they're almost at 5%.
Mm-hmm.
But what is really sad iswhen you go through the bigger
percentages for the big jobs, okay.
Not just lawyers, we may be 49%or whatever of lawyers, but if you
look at the partnerships or jobs andcorporations, we only are less than 5%.
(08:43):
Women of color only makeup 5% of the top drops, so
That's true.
Um, and that's, that's a lot based on, um,
if you add in other things, you know,which we don't even have to get to,
like disability and other things likethat, the numbers drop even further.
(09:05):
But, um.
We, it suggests our, our statisticssuggests that yes, we've come a long way.
We're doing a lot to increase inclusivity.
However, we are still, um, usingtraditional roles and things
(09:28):
to discriminate against women.
Um.
I remember even as a younglawyer being asked inappropriate
questions in job interviews.
Um.
My husband and I were at sometimesinterviewing for the same
positions, and I'd be asked aboutmy childcare responsibilities.
(09:52):
And even though I'd be very upset aboutit, I'd try to laugh it off and say, well,
you know, I don't have to worry aboutthat because my husband has the childcare
responsibilities or things like that.
I knew it was very wrong, buta lot of law firms, um, think.
Women are gonna be on the mommy track, andso therefore we can't, we can't possibly
(10:19):
let this person be a partner becauseshe may have a baby and then she'll be
at the school play or music functionand will miss out on a major case.
There's still that type of thinkingrather than thinking that, uh, women.
(10:40):
If given the opportunity, theyknow how to juggle these roles.
They know how to be, bring home thebacon and be the mommy and the wife.
They know how to make that balancein their households and they
do it effectively and in factthey're very effective, but the
(11:02):
stereotypes still hold them back.
And so there also, uh, tend to, if awoman raises her voice in a matter,
they wanna call her a, a name, a, a,that, that begins with a B, you know?
(11:23):
Um, she's unprofessional, she's loud,she's especially women of color.
She's unprofessional.
She's loud.
She, um, doesn't knowhow to handle herself.
If you distribute the least bit ofempathy, then you're too emotional.
(11:47):
But what are you gonna do, counselor?
Are you gonna cry?
I actually heard that said by a judgeto one of my colleagues in a case when
my colleague was simply advocating.
Her position for her victim.
(12:08):
And the judge literally said,and I couldn't believe my ears,
are you gonna cry, counselor?
And my colleague was like,of course I'm not gonna cry.
Are you crazy?
You know?
Mm-hmm.
But, um, you know, I'm a professional.
I'm not gonna cry.
(12:29):
But these are the roles thatpeople stereotype and nail you
into a corner, um, with, well,
well, what can we do?
I mean, uh, what can be done tocorrect the situation to change it?
I mean, other than, uh, arise inwhat you're doing right now, you're
(12:50):
raising our consciousness, raisingour awareness of what's going on.
What else?
Is there anything else we can do?
Uh, you mentioned a lot of actionsthat you're, that you're going to be
taking as president of the association.
Well, I think that, um, we haveto keep providing educational
(13:11):
programs because a lot of thisis unconscious and implicit bias.
And until you unwrap yourunconscious and implicit bias.
You can't address it.
So, you know, there's many ofpeople that don't know that
there are a male chauvinist pig.
(13:32):
I mean, it's just flat out they thinkwomen should be barefoot pregnant
and in, in the kitchen at all times.
And when you try to tell them thatyes, women have the bandwidth to
do something other than, you know,uh, childbirth and child rearing.
They're, they're amazed or they'relike, oh, I stand corrected.
(13:53):
I'm sorry.
Um, it's, it's the situationthat I think of, um, which kind
of gives a good illustration.
I remember thinking I wasdressed to kill for court now on.
(14:17):
You know, when I would go to trial,I had certain suits that I thought
gave me that certain P possess.
I had a red colored one that I worefor closing argument because I always
thought I looked really good andit was dynamic and boom, you know,
it was gonna give the extra push.
But I had my briefcaseand you know, my pumps.
(14:40):
I thought I looked good and I putmy hair up and you know, my nice
professional hairdo and had all theindicia that I was the attorney ready
to come in for court for action.
I entered the courtroom, I went,I sat down at counsel table,
(15:01):
got ready to prepare myself.
I was there nice and early becausethe early bird gets the worm.
I opened up my trial notebook.
I was reviewing my motions in limine andall the questions that I was gonna ask and
was gonna prevail on, and right next tome was the defense counsel with his client
(15:29):
and because of his implicit unconscious.
Maybe even racist, racist bias.
He just thought I was the courtreporter, the clerk, or maybe he
even thought I was a defendant.
I don't know who the hell he thoughtI was, but he's talking openly and
(15:54):
loudly enough for me to hear everythinghe had to say with his client.
And it went something like this.
Well, if the prosecution asks youthis question, of course you're
gonna have to answer like this.
And if you say this, you can't say that.
And he's advising his client of allthe things not to say and what to do
(16:19):
and what to say and how to say it.
And I'm just writing downeverything he's saying.
I'm like, Ooh, this is.
So the judge finally takes the benchbecause the judge was running a
little late, and the attorney rudelysays to the court, I've been waiting
(16:40):
for the prosecutor to be here allmorning, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And I chime in, your honor,he hasn't been waiting for me.
I've been here since seven 30
to which his face drops.
He wants the claim unfair, da da da da da.
(17:02):
And I say, it's not my problem that youdon't know who I am, or you think I'm
somebody else, so what are we gonna do?
Needless to say, I've never seenwaiver forms come out so fast.
Heled his crying because he had no choice.
(17:22):
I knew.
If I asked any of those questions, whichwas gonna be my number one question, his
client would have to answer the way hetold them to and the case would be over.
So that's a story ofunconscious implicit bias.
(17:43):
I've heard it told by judges,I've heard it told by other, uh,
minority women walking into court.
Somebody mis identifies whothey are just because of who
they are, and it's a big mistake
(18:03):
that is profound, just absolutelyprofound and amazingly, it, it,
it kinda highlights, it brings outall of his biases and prejudices
and how they worked against himbecause ordinarily he could have.
Claim some kind of client, you know,attorney client privilege, but he couldn't
do it because he was in open court.
(18:24):
He assumed that you were the counseland he spoke out in, in front of you
because it, he just assumed that youcould not be the attorney, you know?
And then he waived his, his right to turnclient privilege and basically jeopardized
his, his client's position in thecourtroom, all because of his prejudice.
(18:47):
Bias.
Ah, that's an outstanding story.
That is great Michelle.
It's been wonderful.
Is there anything elseyou wanna tell us about?
Anything else you wanna say?
'cause I'm listening to you andnow I feel hope that we will reach
equality, that we are moving forwardin gender equality in the law.
(19:12):
Anything else elseyou'd like to say to us?
Well, I would like to say, I think weshould be proud that we have, you know,
four female Supreme Court justices.
Yes.
Okay.
I, I think that's a bigaccomplishment to have them on the
bench because we've only had six
(19:37):
team, so we're still.
Struggling, but we're making some strides.
Um, I would say that, uh, I would hopethat we would have a female president.
I don't know if I'llsee it in my lifetime.
I would, I would love to see it, butI looked at Hillary Clinton, who was
(20:02):
one of the most accomplished womenin our lifetime, and she wasn't.
Good enough.
And then we had the second, oneof the second most accomplished
women, which was Kamala Harris.
And she wasn't deemed ready.
(20:23):
So is it that America isn't ready becausewe had a white person and a black person
both run, is it, is it their gender?
Is it their race?
Will the first.
Woman president, be Republican.
Does it have to be, is it theirideology or is it their gender?
(20:48):
So that's, that's the big questionthat I wanna know for presidency,
because right now I feel like, um,
we had two incredible femalecandidates and we were just not ready.
Yeah.
I can tell you honestly, honestly.
There were times when I spoke with,uh, young men on, uh, on the down
(21:13):
low, and they would say that theysimply would not vote for a female
president just because she was female.
Had nothing to do, didn't care howqualified she was, didn't care how,
uh, experienced her educationalbackground or her political position.
They did not care.
(21:33):
They simply were biased againsther because she was a female.
And the shocking thing, I spoketo women with the same philosophy.
I spoke to women who said, oh, I don'tthink a woman should be president.
I know, I, I, you know, I, I fought mybest to try to change their position.
(21:55):
But, uh, that ideology, thatphilosophy, those beliefs are
still out there in our community.
I think they're taught from a very youngage, and it's unfortunate, and we gotta
work on it because we deserve the best ofthe best no matter what their gender is.
That's what we deserve.
(22:17):
So with that.
Thank you so much for joining us today.
Uh, you are an inspirationto all women in the world.
The time has come when we stoptreating our queens like second
class humans and start giving themequality in all aspects of society.
(22:40):
Sexism and racism area disgrace to humanity.
It is time.
We get rid of thisignorance once and for all.
I appreciate what you aredoing to promote, to fight
for equality and inclusion.
I do appreciate you, Michelle.
(23:00):
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Alrighty, well you've heard it today.
I welcome your comments atthe Logical lawyer@gmail.com.
The webpage is the Logical attorney.me.
The book is a prosecutor's analysis ofPersonal supernatural experiences, and the
webpage is the supernatural attorney.net.
(23:21):
And guess what?
Don't forget my brother, mybrother podcaster, his podcast
is called, it's that part.
His name is Jesse Hammond.
He is very, very, he's verylogical and he is outspoken.
He speaks the truth.
(23:42):
Uh, and so I highly recommendthat you, join in and listen
to it's that part, a podcast.
It's been a pleasure.
We have been blessed tohave you here, Michelle.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
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