ICE Raids, Roll Calls & Resistance: Policing Democracy in Crisis

What happens when ICE shows up uninvited—on your turf, in your city, under federal orders? This explosive joint episode of The Logical Lawyer and It’s That Part features retired LAPD lieutenants Otis Dobin and Byron Roberts as they reveal the behind-the-scenes chaos when federal power collides with community policing. Hosts Bernie Brown and Jesse Lee Hammonds lead a sobering conversation on mass detentions, the erosion of civil rights, executive overreach, and the real-world consequences of silence. From broken families to manipulated redistricting maps, the episode cuts deep into America’s democratic backslide and what’s left to protect. Listen in for lived experiences, legal clarity, and a roadmap to reclaim our rights.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Coming up on this episode ofthe Logical Lawyer and the, it's

(00:03):
that part joint podcasts, because
on the one hand, take for instance,you have, uh, demonstrations that
are going on and you, you have aresponsibility to keep the public say,
uh, you also have a responsibility tothe demonstrators to, to some degree
allow them to demonstrate and exercisetheir freedom of, of, uh, of speech.

(00:26):
Freedom of association.
But on the other hand,
at the intersection of logic and truth,
this is the logical lawyer and it'sthat part, exploring legal, social, and
cultural issues with insight, clarity,and purpose, truth and logic, sharp and

(00:51):
clear insight and hope we bring it here.
Where truth needs logic in action,
it's the Logical lawyerand it's that part.
You're listening to a jointepisode of The Logical Lawyer
and the It's that part podcast.

(01:13):
I'm Jesse Lee Hammonds and I'm herewith the Logical Lawyer himself.
Attorney Bernie Brown.
Now we come at these issues and concernsfrom different backgrounds professionally,
but with a shared commitment to clarity,logic, lawfulness truth in every
fact together with real conversation.

(01:36):
So, Bernie, you've workedinside the, uh, legal system,
uh, as a prosecuting attorney.
In a few moments, we'regonna bring on some guests.
But before we do that, could you brieflyframe what's legally at stake here?
Well, I must say, Jesse, I'mreally concerned, uh, I'm concerned

(01:57):
about the state of our democracy.
I mean, we have a presidentwho's issuing orders that usurp
con Congressional authority.
I mean, he's taking over, uh,the powers of state and local.
Governments to policetheir own, uh, citizenry.

(02:18):
I mean, it is crazy.
I'm sorry.
He's taking away free speech, man.
Can you believe that?
Uh, uh, by, uh, suppressing incolleges and institutions and, and
taking their money, their fundsaway, uh, it, it is, it's terrible.
And, and then.
Uh, the, these sweeping searches, thesedetentions of people on the basis of

(02:46):
saying that they're may be illegalaliens, but he's doing these mass sweeps.
It appears to be that he'sjust sweeping Hispanics.
So I'm really concerned about thefuture by democracy when a president
can take over authority, state andlocal authority, when he can usurp

(03:09):
congressional authority, when he cantake away citizens and non-citizens.
All Americans constitutionalrights, I mean, the future.
Of our democracy, the futureof our democracy is at stake.
It's a worrisome situation asto what will come in the months,

(03:33):
in the years ahead of us.
And you know what I say to that?
It's that part.
Exactly.
Because it's one thing to seeall of these things on paper or
read them in a social media post.
But it's quite another to see it onthe ground right before your eyes

(03:55):
where the rubber meets the road.
So that's why we invited two seasonedvoices with firsthand experience,
both retired lieutenants of theLos Angeles Police Department
right here in California.
Tell us welcome ByronRoberts and Otis Dobin.
So, so, and then just, just imaginethat you guys are back at LAPD for

(04:17):
just a moment, and you're there and allof a sudden all these troops show up.
I mean, and, and they'resupposedly helping you.
And I, I, I, you know, I justwonder how, how that works, doesn't
you, obviously, I think it doesn'twork, but how would that be?
How and what do you thinkthe line officers are?

(04:38):
A feeling now.
And what is, what is command, whatdo they tell their officers, uh,
with regard to what's going on andtheir level of cooperation with ICE
and, and with the, uh, authorities?
'cause I know historically whenI was with the city attorney's
office, there was a lot of.
Cooperation, but they were going after badguys, after murderers and, and criminals.

(05:04):
Now it's like they'regoing after civilians.
So where, what, what do you do?
What, what do you saywhen you're an officer?
Uh, and what does command, howfar do they go and how far do they
cooperate with, with this type of,uh, rogue activity, shall we say?

(05:25):
Well, I think the, the leaders like thechief, uh, Jim McDonald, there's so much
that he can, can't do, and there's so muchhe cannot do when, when he has to deal
with the federal government, uh, thesepeople are being sent in by the president
of the United States and he would beoutta place and probably get himself into.

(05:49):
Some severe trouble is we try tobook with what this president is
ordering people to do as a, as a,uh, federal government activity.
Uh, the current chief ofpolice, he deals with.
City policies and how he controlsthis, the police department.

(06:09):
And as you probably see that he'snot really getting involved in
anything this president's havingthese people do in the city of Los
Angeles, the, the National Guard,uh, when he even sent in the Marines.
Uh, all of that is out of his hands.
So his hands is tied and he is a verysmart individual, uh, Jill McDonald.

(06:32):
Hmm.
Yeah, I would add on to, um,this is probably dealing with
something that, you know what?
Un unfortunately I wasstill working during COVID.
So when COVID occurred.
It was a new way of doing businessand so you really have to adjust.
And unfortunately, LAPD andlaw enforcement in general

(06:54):
are very good at adjusting.
I'm, I'm sure they'readjusting to what's going on.
Uh, but in law enforcement,we're really territorial.
We're, we're, we'reassigned a, a, a division.
We're assigned as a, a specific,uh, reporting district.
And you have a lot ofpride in what you do.

(07:15):
And so you go out there and youtry to make sure that you, uh,
are responsible for your area.
Um, so for a sergeant.
For dealing with, uh, another agencyor another department coming in
your area, engaging in activitiesas well as a lieutenant, I think
it's gotta be really challenging.

(07:36):
We have a, what we call a roll callbriefing every day before each.
Uh, uh, watch and during thatbriefing we talk about crime.
We talk about crime trends.
We talk about people who are wanted.
Um, we talk about enforcement,traffic enforcement.
We talk about a, a myriad of things.
And so I'm pretty sure this commentcomes up, this conversation comes

(07:59):
up in roll call every day, andit's been a, a challenge where
as in COVID, we had to literally.
Uh, do on the job training on how we'regonna handle it and what we do every day.
And so my biggest fearwould be communication.
Um, normally as a lieutenant whensomething occurred, even when I was

(08:19):
a sergeant, once I, uh, report to thescene, the first call I made was to my
lieutenant so I could notify them whatwas going on so they would be aware
of what's going on, whether or notthey need to make notifications of the
chain of command, uh, communication is.
Paramount.
And so when you have another agencygetting involved in things within
your area and you have no controlover it, I think that creates a lot

(08:43):
of liability for the department,for the city of Los Angeles and
the citizens in which we serve.
And so the other issue is, uh, if wewere engaged in immigration activities,
then a lot of immigrants will becomevictims of crime because they will
have no reason to communicate.

(09:03):
With local law enforcement becausethey would be concerned that they were
gonna be deported and so they would bea victim of crime or they would, might
know about victims of crime or crimeincidents and they would fail to report
it because they, they have a totalmistrust of, of the, uh, law enforcement.
So it creates a lot ofproblems, uh, a lot of issues.

(09:24):
And as far as, uh, thishas only been seven months,
we still have.
Three years and five months.
Boy, every time you turn around andsomething else happening, so he can
cover up what he did the day before.
Mm-hmm.
Distraction.
Hope it'll be next week.

(09:44):
That's it.
It does seem like it's such adifficult situation for LAPD to be
in for their current, especiallyrank and file officers and for the
administration because on the one hand.
Take for instance, you have, uh,demonstrations that are going on and
you, you have a responsibility tokeep the public safe and also have a

(10:08):
responsibility to the demonstratorsto, to some degree allow them to
demonstrate and exercise their freedom of.
Of, uh, of speech andfreedom of association.
But on the other hand, you have aresponsibility to keep, uh, society
safe and to not let the demonstrators,uh, violate laws or destroy property,

(10:29):
and then standing right behind you.
On the Fed.
And so you're right in the middle.
You got the demonstrators on oneside and the fans on the other side.
And you know, it seems like it'sa difficult situation for a police
officer, uh, under these circumstances.
But we have, we have, I'm sorry.

(10:50):
We have people, uh, when wechoose police officers, they're
choosing, they're chosen.
From the human race, and so you'regonna have people in that department
as well as other departments thatare Democrats and Republicans.
Now, nine times outta 10, we putthat off to the side, we respond
out to incidents, and I never askanybody am I 29 years of working?

(11:14):
Uh, with the Los Angeles PoliceDepartment, whether or not they
were Democrat or Republican.
When I responded out to an incident, Iwent out there and I done my job, and it
didn't really make a difference whetherthey were a citizen or not a citizen.
I did my job.
But you have that aspect that,that currently is something that's,
that, you know, as an administrator.

(11:36):
Uh, captain, a lieutenant, a commander.
You have to deal with the fact thatyou have people on the job that
are Democrats and you have peopleon the job that are Republicans.
And so it shouldn't come into play,but I'm sure it does something
that you also have to deal with.
So, I mean, this is notnothing that's just simple.

(11:56):
You know, I, I think it's, it's theweirdest thing I've ever seen in my life.
Uh, even before I even thought aboutbeing a police officer, I never thought
that we'd be dealing with a society wherepeople can just be pulled off the street
because of the color of their skin.
I mean.
We have, you know, landscapersand people who clean my pool

(12:21):
and, and things of that sort.
And I've seen them, you know, sometimesthey come lately and sometimes they don't.
And I gotta understand whenthey're not here, it's not because
they're not being professional.
There probably could be in aposition where there've been lost.
A family member.
I have one landscaper that brought this.

(12:42):
Two or 3-year-old daughter with himfor like two or three weeks straight
to come do the work on my yard, becauseI'm like, where's this child's mother?
Mm-hmm.
So she could have been gone, but hehad to do what he do and still, you
know, get out here and make money.
So it's just, it's a lot of societythat's been affected by this.

(13:02):
Well, we should let everyone knowthat ice is legally, uh, confined
and controlled and subjected tothe same constitutional laws.
The S-S-L-A-P-D as any law enforcementofficer, uh, legally they cannot
detain anyone unless they haveprobable cause to believe that the

(13:26):
person they have are detaining, hascommitted a crime or a reasonable
suspicion that the person is committeda crime or if they have a warrant.
So, uh, they are, uh, constrained bythe same constitutional limitations
as all the other law enforcement.
Officers in theory.

(13:46):
Yes.
And I say in theory because in realityit seems that, that we're facing
and seeing a different reality.
Mm-hmm.
Where they don't appear tobe confined and, and the
interesting thing is, you know.
The mass majority of people thatthey are detaining are probably,

(14:09):
I'd say probably legal citizens.
I mean, they detain all these peopleand it's an illegal detention, and
they're letting many of them go because.
They are citizens, but they'redoing mass detention and, and,
and just stopping anybody.
And then, uh, if they don't havecredentials, then apparently many people
are, are being deported and with, youknow, without due process, uh, of law.

(14:37):
Uh, and, and
that part,
yes, that part.
Well, it's, it's amazingto me that not only.
Are they deporting them, but they're nowdeporting them to countries that not,
that is not their country of origin.
In other words, they cansend them to anywhere.

(14:58):
And so I, I've been to, uh.
Uh, to Europe.
When I retired, uh, and when I went toEurope, one of the things that I noticed
and, and I, I got a newfound respect forit, is I didn't speak the language there.
The language was French and some peoplespoke, uh, English and a lot spoke French.
And so the ability to try tocommunicate with someone when you're

(15:20):
in a foreign country is amazing.
But I can only imagine if you'redeported to another country.
You're not familiar with anyone there.
You don't speak thelanguage, you have no funds.
What do you do?
And so that's, uh, what a lot ofpeople who come from Mexico come
here to America and they're cominghere without any type of foundation

(15:43):
and they're trying to make it.
But someone that's working, Ireally don't have a problem with it.
I understand that the importance ofdoing things the the appropriate way,
but we gotta understand that you can't.
If your focus is actually criminals,then contact LAPD and find out
where 18th street is hanging out,where MS is hanging out, where,
uh, uh, white fence is hanging out.

(16:05):
Uh, find out where these, uh, uh,where these gangs are hanging out at.
And you go over there and you go getthose gang members, I don't think
you're gonna show up over there with amask and, and jumping out of vehicles
that unmarked on them the way you doa person at Home Depot at a car wash.
But they could, they could get that inteland go there and target the individuals

(16:29):
that they need to be targeting.
But when you're targeting people thatare picking fruits and vegetables.
Uh, that are working at, at, atfactories, that are working at car
washes, that are working at, uh,as a day labor at a Home Depot.
You're focusing onpeople that are workers.
Those people are not the ones thatare out there creating a crime.

(16:49):
I've never seen, I'm not, I'mnot gonna say it doesn't happen.
I work crash in 97, uh, 98.
Uh, I'm not gonna say I know a gang memberthat, that was gang banging and then went
to Home Depot and hung out as a day Laker.
It doesn't work that way.
That's just what they, they don't do that.

(17:11):
They may sell dope.
They may rob, uh, they may do someother capering, but they're not
out there working at Home Depot.
It just, it doesn't, it doesn't occur.
Uh, but it
is scary.
Not part of the modus operandi.
Huh?
She has.
Oh man.
Well, you know, I, I just had a flashback.

(17:34):
I guess we should be happy because, youknow, remember during, I remember during
the first administration, I just have thisflashback of these people, mothers and
children behind bar, you know, behind.
Fenced wires.
Mm-hmm.
Remember that?
Mm-hmm.
When they, when theywere separating families.
Mm-hmm.
And they had all these, thesepoor children and, and then they

(17:56):
were deporting them and then theycouldn't figure out who the parents,
when, when they, when they were.
And, and they still can't,they still can't, they don't
know who the parents are.
'cause they had separatedthe children without.
Even acquiring information.
Uh uh, identifying information,
ridiculous.
I don't know.
What are we coming to?

(18:17):
And
so I have a question for the panel.
Yeah.
Okay.
And this is just some food for thought.
When they get to the point wherethey're reasonably happy with, uh,
the, the reduction of immigrants herein the United States, specifically
Hispanics, what's next or who is next?

(18:43):
Oh, that's, that's all a part of the plan.
Uh, they're not going to be satisfied withthat, uh, uh, in the project, uh, 2025.
Well, their, their ideas that we'retrying to flip things over we're,
we're trying to, what do they call it?
Uh, erase replacement theory.
Uh, they're, they're trying toretard that right there, and the

(19:07):
only way they can retard that.
It's to get rid of all of us.
Well, you know, they haveto make America great again.
Yeah.
So what does that look like?
You know, as a matter of fact that,that kinda leads into the question of
are we, you know, where are we now?

(19:28):
Are we seeing the erosion of democracy?
I mean, uh, we're standing,it feels similar sort of,
kind of on the surface there.
We have.
Elections still sort of, uh, the courtsare still, uh, convening sort of, uh,
legislatures are still meeting exceptor in Texas, uh, uh, but beneath the

(19:51):
surface, uh, the foundations are shifting.
Executive orders are no longer exceptions.
Uh, they're the primarytool of governance.
Uh, we spoke about thatearlier, institutions that once.
Acted as referees of the courts,the congress, the independent
agencies are now sidelined.

(20:11):
Technology meant, uh, for the battlefieldis now on street corners, turn in work,
you know, against our own citizens.
So, so, so, so where are we?
I hope we don't wind up in a civil war.
I mean, uh, so we look at it.
And historically I thought that wehad gotten to a point when, especially

(20:36):
when we elected Obama as president,that that this racism thing was gone.
That, that we were movingin a positive direction.
That that goodness and righteousnessand fairness and democracy.
No, we're gotta live who we sing through.
And uh, then MartinLuther King's dream was.

(20:56):
Coming true.
But, uh,
now I look at it and I a totalmanipulation of, uh, of the system.
They're basically going in, um, doingthings to make sure that just for
instance, uh, this big, beautiful bill.
Hmm.

(21:17):
The tax breaks aren'tfor the common folks.
They're for the rich, and so ultimately,it, it won't in, in my opinion, be a
matter of about what your color is,is whether or not you have money.
And if you don't have money,then you're like everybody else.
So what is the, uh, everybody else?

(21:38):
Are we back to slavery?
Mm-hmm.
And
we have the rich and then you have slaves.
Uh, it's just we are getting rid ofthe Department of Education when we're
saying that we're behind and, and mathand, and English and this and that.
Well, I don't think getting readyto the Department of Education is

(21:58):
gonna bring us up to standards.
It brings, its below standard.
Uh, that's, that's howyou know it's a lie.
Yes.
Changing history, rewriting history.
Right.
So it's, it's, it's,it's, it's, it's unreal.
I, I hope that the good heart of mankindwill appear sometime here really quick.

(22:22):
Uh, but it's a perfect storm when youhave control of the house, the Senate,
and, and then you have a, a primary, uh,Republican president, a MAGA president,
which is, uh, I think there's adifference between a MAGA Republican and
a Republican, but it's a perfect stormso he can have control over everything.

(22:43):
And then when you topple that.
Supreme Court saying that, you know,uh, as long as he's acting as a
president, he's not held responsible.
Uh, but it's, it is, it's justmanipulation in, in the worst term
because she then he, he turn around andhe says, well, I'm gonna go out to Obama.
Well, don't mm-hmm.
The same rights apply tohim as it does to youth.

(23:06):
Uh, uh, his actions were as apresident, but you wanna go out them.
Just take for tack nonsense.
It's, it's scary.
Scary times we living in,
well, I personally don't think we'regoing to wind up with a dictator
or an authoritarian state becauseof the good people, like the people
speaking right here who will speak out.

(23:29):
For all the good thingsthat democracy represent.
Do I sound like, do I need a violin?
You know, kind of in the background.
Well, I, well I want to
just, just mark that,uh, this is recorded.
So we're, we're gonna be able tocome back to this, uh, as we're
all, uh, hopefully not marching intothe gulag or something, but, uh.

(23:50):
Because I think I made a, a similarprediction last year, and now here we are.
Closer.
Closer.
Oh boy.
You know, uh, brother Otis.
I think it's gonna get a littleworse before it even gets better.
For his country.
Yeah.

(24:10):
You know, he's, he's very powerfuland he works for very powerful people.
And the average American doesn'thave the wealth that the wealth
he has don't have the power.
And he knows that.
And Nelly, he knows, and he getssome support from those people

(24:30):
that is just as wealthy as he,or even wealthier than he is.
And they kind of accept whatthis guy is doing because it
doesn't affect them at all.
It only affect the minorityand average American people.
It doesn't affect them at all.
They get to do what they wannado and they have no restrictions.

(24:53):
And just like he has no restrictions,he's doing exactly what he wants
to do and don't give a damn whatother people think about it.
Not at all.
No
accountability whatsoever.
And it's amazing the fear thathe, uh, that people have of him.
Uh, we were actually speakingwith a, a young man, and I
know he doesn't want his name.

(25:15):
Well, he wasn't a young man.
He's an older guy who'san immigration judge, uh,
administrative immigration judge.
And this guy that we were speaking towants to be a, uh, California state judge.
Because he doesn't wanna serve under thatadministration, but he can't say anything.

(25:35):
He can't speak out againstwhat's going on because he was
so afraid of losing his job.
He said, you know, one ofmy colleagues got fired.
And so he was just petrified andit's amazing, the fear and then what
he's doing to the colleges and theuniversities and cutting back their
funding if they don't agree with his.

(25:56):
Ideological, uh, principal goals, shallwe say, or his ideological approach.
Uh, it's amazing the command andthe control, uh, that he's taking
over, uh, with regard to our society.
And, uh,

(26:17):
what do you think about these attorneys,big attorney firms that bow into this guy?
Some are not, but some are.
It's all about the money, youknow, and that's the same thing
with the, with the university.
Some of them are capitulatingbecause he's literally can extract

(26:38):
millions and millions of dollars.
And billions if you look at it acrossthe entire, uh, entire United States.
And so, uh, it's money and power.
That's what
power.
He has power to do what he wants todo, and he's gonna try to do that.
What he thinks should,what Cripple people.

(27:00):
Crippled the average American
people.
Well, you look at the, uh, the jobsreport, uh, where he wants to, uh,
get rid of the, uh, commissionerwho produced that information.
Uh, but when you lay off two 50, ahundred thousand, 300,000 people,

(27:24):
what makes you think that thejobs report is gonna be positive?
And the scary part about this and islike you, you, you have a system where
you say you're gonna save the, thegovernment money, but what do you do
with the people that you're letting go?
You had no plan to reemploy them.
Uh, it's, it's, it's, it's bad.

(27:47):
I mean, my daughter who worked fora government contractor and she
went to Howard and, uh, she finishedHoward, she got a master's at North
Texas and she's there working fora government contractor and she's
been, uh, uh, released from her job.
Her contract now going on four months, andI'm helping her with her rent every month.

(28:08):
So it's gonna affect everybody.
It doesn't just affect thepeople that are laid off.
It, it has a, a, a correlation towhere it will affect, uh, other
individuals that are not theones that are working that job.
Because I'm not gonna allow my daughterto be there and, you know, living in
the streets, I'm gonna watch over it.

(28:30):
I'm gonna take care of her.
That's a father's responsibility.
But at the same time, I'mnow, I'm at a. Point darling.
Well, you know, we've been doing thisabout three, going on four months.
If you don't have anything, becausethe market is saturated with other
unemployed people there in DC youdidn't have a, a husband or children,
so you didn't take the first job.

(28:50):
You was trying to get another jobsimilar to what you were doing before.
Well, the other people took allthe jobs that they could find, and
so now it's at a point where I'msaying, okay, it might be time where
it's time to back your stuff up.
Let's transport your car back here andcome on back home and rego, and she's been
at, at this American dream for 10 years.
She left my house 10 years ago.

(29:11):
You know, did what she was supposed to do.
Graduated cum laude, whatever, 3.7GPA, went on to get her master's.
And then we have someone come in hereand just turn everything upside down.
Doge.
It
does not matter.
About what you're doing.

(29:32):
We don't care about the people.
We're letting go.
There are other agencies, I havea cousin that works for nasa.
They take a benefits package 'causethey want 'em to retire early.
Well, hopefully your benefits andyour retirement you have set up is
enough, but it's what are we doing?
What?
What are we doing with our what?
With, with Americancitizens that supposedly

(29:55):
are living this American dream.
Yeah.
And, and supposedly itwas to cut the budget.
They said, oh, there's allthis expensive spending.
And then they propose a budgetthat's trillions of dollars
higher in a, in a federal deficit.
It, that's not even logical.
You know, the logical lawyer says is not

(30:16):
logical.
It's illogical.
You know, he said, or
putting his jaw,
that part
we hear about this ballroom,these building with both leg.
Oh man.
Yeah.
So I mean, you know, it, it'sall, and then if you don't
go along with the program.
You know, you get fired ifyou're head of some department.
And then he gets angry at theFederal Reserve, uh, head and

(30:39):
says, oh, oh, he should go.
But you raised all these tariffs andthe tariffs are inflationary and he's
not gonna run lower interest rates.
If you're creating inflationary policies.
So it's just Oh, so theological.
And,
and it conveniently
forgets that the guy that, that that's,that's in place there, who lowers

(31:05):
the, the, uh, the, the rates thatthat guy was not appointed by Biden.
Right?
He was appointed by Trump.
Right.
And he was reappointed
by Biden.
But he says.
Who, who appointed this guy?
I wanna say go look in the mirror.
Right.
They eat their own.

(31:27):
Oh my.
They eat their own.
That that guy is a person that hasthe courage to do what's right.
Yes.
Right.
And that they're lacking now inleadership positions like the
House, the Senate, they will.
They, they allude to this guy.

(31:49):
They, to this guy.
They bow to him opposing towhat's what is right for the
community, for American citizens.
They don't have the nerveto stand up to this man.
If you stand up to him, what canhe do to you other than fire you?
I mean.
That's what you paid.

(32:10):
But then again, you are doingwhat's right to be done.
Amen.
Amen.
Comes back to the, um,spiritual side of it.
Mm. No.
Uh, Donald Trump is notgonna get you to heaven.
Definitely not.
He's not, he's not your savior.
He's not.

(32:30):
God,
I heard that.
And, and, and I'm notjudging, I'm just saying.
I have, I have to say this, I heard DonaldTrump is selling a a, a place in heaven.
What?
Oh, is he selling that?
He sold, he was selling the Bible,but he, when did that come out?
Wait a minute, what?

(32:52):
Okay.
What?
I,
I, I would not be surprised.
I'm just saying, I mean, he,he's got NFT and all of that.
What, what?
OO Gotta be a dad, Joe, huh?
Oh man.
I be, that's like buying landin a swap land, you know, buying

(33:15):
property in swap land, you know.
You, you know, Bernie?
Um, I was, I was actually just,just, just heard say, uh, that we,
we've heard some hard truths today.
Uh, uh, this isn't just about, uh,what's happening on the streets.
It's, it's about, uh, the structureof power itself, uh, and whether

(33:38):
it still belongs to the people, forthe people and, and by the people.
What say you?
I I say it's that part, man.
It's that part.
And uh, like you said, we've hearda lot of great wisdom here today.
Mm-hmm.
And
it, it, it was quite enlighteningfor me and I think it'll be

(33:59):
enlightening for our listeners.
Uh, it's been a great, wonderful program.
I think we've heard from real peopleabout real issues from a real.
Honest perspective.
And so I think you, you put ittogether, Jesse, you've done it
well.
It's that
part.
Well that, that's, it'sall of our part there.
Uh, we, we don't need more fear.

(34:21):
Uh, we need more fact,more transparency and.
And the more and morerespect for the Constitution.
I mean, I mean, that's the documentthat, that we have to hold onto.
Uh, that's the, that's the documentin, in its amendments that gave
us, uh, the rights that appearto be getting eroded right now.
So, so we have to, we haveto get through this as well.

(34:45):
You know, our ancestors got through whatthey had to get through Middle Passage,
uh, uh, reconstruction, uh, civil rights.
You know, it, it's, it's our turn.
You right about it.
Go ahead.
It's a season we are going through.
Yes, yes.
And there's light that's gonna shine.
And we are gonna be victorious becausethe people are not sitting back and

(35:08):
doing nothing like they have protestingevery week, every day in different,
in all the countries and all thecities and states of this country.
So the people has the power.
Like I said, it's the season we are goingthrough right now, but we will overcome.
We still
we're right

(35:30):
with.
Belief and hope.
All right.
Well, I think we'llleave with those words.
What do you think, Jesse?
Are we, we we're aboutready to wrap it up then.
Yeah, I was, I was,
uh, looking for something.
Um, now if, if, um, if either one of you.
Um, I guess both of youcan ask, answer this.

(35:51):
Um, what do you think weshould be working on right now?
Wow.
To, to the, to the pointsthat we were making.
What, what, what, whatshould we be working on?
I
think my personal opinion is that weshould try continue to encourage people.
To have faith in this country,to have faith that we are Depo

(36:15):
experiencing and displaying rightnow by all the protests going on.
Peaceful protests, not to give up, buthave faith and hope and we will do that.
We will overcome this will, like Isaid before, we are going through a
season and this guy would play out,like other dictators have played out
and just, you know, you have to lookback in history and how many dictators.

(36:39):
Because of the way they treattheir, their, their citizens.
Yeah.
Brother Byron.
Um, I, I, I, not only would I saythat we should have faith and continue
to pray, but, uh, I, it's a veryimportant time that's coming up.
And this is this, uh, two years,uh, and there's another electoral

(37:01):
period that's coming up here.
Mm-hmm.
It's important that we go out and we vote.
And that you hold peopleaccountable for not doing their job.
And the other issue associated withthis is Greg Abbott in Texas doing
this redistricting where they'retrying to get in additional seats

(37:24):
so that they can maintain control.
We must go out there and voteand make sure that that does.
Not occurred.
We can only change from within.
What we can change from what thatwe can't change on the outside.
So voting, vote, vote,the period is coming up.
You have to be a participant.

(37:45):
No more of this.
I don't like either candidate,so I'm not gonna vote.
Vote
amen to that.
Go ahead.
I just said amen.
Yes, yes.
Yeah, I, I. I, I think those are somegreat marching orders from both of you.
And for those of you listening, you'vebeen listening to the, it's that Part

(38:08):
podcast and the Logical Lawyer Podcast.
Uh, and as the logical lawyerwould always say, don't commit
crime and keep it logical.
And, and as I would say, uh, be aware.
Stay awake and keep truth in every fact.
That's going to do it for thisjoint episode of The Logical Lawyer

(38:30):
and the It's That Part Podcast.
A big thanks again to our guest forjoining us and to you for listening.
Now, if you'd like to hear morefrom attorney Bernie Brown, who's
also an author, he authored thebook, A Prosecutor's Analysis of
Personal Supernatural Experiences,which is a collection of fascinating
stories awaiting your verdict.

(38:52):
Well, whether the experiences you readwere fact fiction, fabrication, or fraud
with stories like the pastor and theEvil Force, people who swear they saw
a ghost tormented by demons or simplydelusional and many more on Amazon.
Search Bernie Brown, a prosecutor'sanalysis, and it'll pop right up for you.

(39:15):
Available in paperback andin digital format on Kendall.
You can also check out the LogicalLawyer Podcast where you can listen
to this episode again and shareit with your friends and family
and tell them to do the same.
Okay.
You can also connect [e-mail].
Yep.
The logical attorney.meand you've got him.

(39:38):
And for more episodes of the, it's thatPart podcast, you can listen directly at.
It's that part.com where you'll also findan embedded player for both of our shows.
Again, we'd love for you to sharethese conversations with your family
and your friends and coworkers.
Leave a comment and do stay connectedwith the both of us, won't you?

(39:59):
So until the next time, asBernie would say, don't do crime.
Be aware and stay awake.
You've been listening to theLogical Lawyer and the it's.
That part Joint Podcast
at the intersection of logic and truth.

(40:21):
This is the Logical Lawyer and it'sthat part exploring legal, social, and
cultural issues with insight, clarity,and purpose, truth and logic, sharp and
clear insight and hope we bring it here.

(40:43):
Where truth.