June 10, 2025 • 17 mins
What really goes on behind the bench? Retired Judge Gloria White Brown served over two decades in the Los Angeles Superior Court, and in this gripping episode, she breaks down what it takes to become a judge, how the legal system actually works, and the intense scrutiny behind every judicial appointment. With over 250 trials under her belt and a 97% conviction rate, Judge White Brown pulls no punches about politics, preparation, and the truth behind the robe. Whether you’re a law student, aspiring judge, or curious citizen, this insider’s view will leave you wiser — and more alert — about who holds power in the courtroom. The Logical Lawyer Bernie Brown brings it to you!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Okay, ladies and gentlemen, we reallyhave a nice treat for you today.
Today we have the Honorable GloriaWhite Brown, and she's going to be
talking to us about how to becomea judge and how judges think we're
gonna get into the mind of a judge.
(00:20):
Gloria White Brown is a retiredsuperior court judge for the county
of Los Angeles, and she served.
25 years.
Was it Gloria?
Not quite More like 22.
Oh, 22.
I was close.
My close may not count in a courtof law, but she's gonna be talking
(00:40):
to us about, like I said, about whatgoes into the thought processes.
And what they consider to be valuableand persuasive, shall we say.
So let's just get it on first.
Gloria, I'm just wondering how does onebecome a judge in the state of California?
(01:01):
I. Well, first of all, helloto everyone that's listening.
I'm going to answer these questions,uh, based upon my experiences and
there may be different answers,that other judges or attorneys
would give in certain circumstances.
But for me, in regards to how did Ibecome a judge, well, I went through
(01:23):
after graduating from high school.
I went to undergrad college fouryears, and I majored in political
science, which at that time, wayback when was the pre-law major.
That was the major that, we wereadvised to take in undergrad in order
(01:44):
to become a lawyer to go to law school.
So I attended UCLA.
I graduated with a BS, bachelor'sof Science in Political Science
and then went on to law school and,in regards to, becoming a judge,
you first have to be a lawyer.
So after graduating from law school,passing the bar exam, I became a licensed
(02:11):
member of the State of Californiabar and, started practicing law.
In that situation, Ihad various, practices.
I would say I first, practicedwith a personal injury firm.
Actually they were more vastthan a personal injury firm.
(02:34):
They handled landlord tenant.
They also handled, family matters as well.
Family law matters.
And so I Weren't you withJacobi and Myers for a while?
Well, that famous firm, well, yes,that is the firm I'm speaking of.
I just wasn't going tomention their names.
Oh, I'm sorry.
That's okay.
And so I, so I started off withthem while I was in law school.
(02:54):
Actually.
I clerked with the Legal Aid Society,which was wonderful experience.
Uh, that's a whole nother story and Idon't think we have time to go into that.
Law school, uh, after law school, JacobyMyers was my first real employment.
Mm-hmm.
And then I left there after a coupleof years and went to the Los Angeles
(03:16):
County District Attorney's Office.
And, that was a wonderfulexperience for me.
I gained.
A lot of trial experience I handled inexcess of, 250 trials ju jury trials and
what we call bench trials before a judgeand I had a 97% conviction success rate.
(03:39):
Are you telling the truth?
Oh, judges can't lie.
Okay.
97%. Wow.
The DA's office was a wonderful experiencefor me, as I stated, and in the end,
I, was a member of a, hardcore gangunit and tried, nothing but gang murder
trials that ended up ex itself in ofitself is a, another story as well.
(04:02):
But, . The DA's office, I then went toa, another prosecutorial office and that
was the , air Quality Management Districtcommonly referred to as the A QMD left.
Actually.
Went to that office, because theyneeded trial attorneys and, I was
recommended, went there and worked onthe prosecutor's side, environmental
(04:27):
law, which was very interesting.
And then, after about five years inthe environmental section, I then
went over to the general counsel sideand became a deputy district Counsel.
For the actual agency and,basically represented the agency
in regards to, any legal matters.
(04:47):
After those experiences, or actually.
During those experiences, I completedmy judge application and, submitted
it, while I was at the A QMD.
And then, was interviewed by thegovernor's appointment secretary.
And was appointed tothe bench in year 2002.
(05:12):
So let me get this straight.
To become a judge in the state ofCalifornia, you first have to be a lawyer.
To become a lawyer, you gotta go to lawschool or there is an apprenticeship.
Program, but we won't talk about that.
Right.
But, uh, that's the,
that's the Kim Kardashian
method.
Oh, okay.
Thank you very much.
You're welcome.
And the, so you have to become a lawyer.
(05:33):
How long do you have to be a lawyerbefore you can do you apply or do
you get elected to become a judge?
Okay.
Well, there's a couple ofquestions in there, so yes.
Typical now you have to be alawyer for at least 10 years
to be a superior court judge.
And in the past it wasa little bit different.
I believe at one point to become amunicipal court judge and there's
(05:57):
no more municipal court so.
This is really irrelevant.
I think the time period was youhad to be on the an attorney for
at least five years, but municipalcourts went away many many years ago.
About 22, 5 years ago, municipal courtswent away maybe a little longer than
that, and the, courts in California, thestate courts became a superior court.
(06:19):
And you asked another question.
Yes, I was asking
the what are.
Elected.
Okay.
And or appointed?
Yes.
Okay.
So I was appointed by the governor.
You can be elected, every two years thereare elections and typically there are
(06:39):
a couple of seats that are open that.
Attorneys, will vie for, in regardsto, trying to become a judge.
They, some attorneys prefer that method,going that route instead of turning in
the, massive application and going throughthe, very intense interview process.
(07:02):
And then, hopefully getting theappointment by the governor.
So I was a, I was appointed,by Governor Gray Davis.
And and then after that, however,every six years your seat, becomes
available or is up for election rather.
And if no one challenges you, thenyou're not on the BA ballot, excuse me.
(07:26):
And and you just went automatically.
If someone does challenge you, meaninganother attorney, or attorneys, if
they challenge you, then it's the.
A process that you go through campaigning,raising funds the standard normal kind
of things that, one would go throughin order to try to win an election.
(07:50):
However, most incumbent judges.
Are reelected.
I think it's very rare thatan incumbent judge is not
reelected in those situations.
So a person trying to become ajudge for the first time, they.
Try to be, become, they could try theelection process, which apparently
I hear can cost a lot of money.
(08:12):
Well, I don't know how much it costsbecause I've never participated in
that, but yes, I do understand thatit is extremely costly and, think
hundreds of thousands, hundreds ofthousands of dollars, is the norm in
regards to money that is raised andor spent in those election contest.
But I hear those applications can takedays to fill out and they're detailed.
(08:35):
They wanna know all your historyand well, your cases you've tried
and all of this kind of stuff.
The application process is, Idescribe it as gruesome because, the
application, if I recall correctly,is once you complete it is about an
inch thick, an inch and a half thick.
It requires so much informationand it takes, I think just from
(08:59):
speaking to colleagues, I think ittakes the average, attorney that
is applying to become a judge,months to complete that application.
Because first of all, you wannamake sure you're providing,
accurate and adequate information.
And so, it takes a lot of research.
(09:20):
Hopefully you kept information in regardsto cases that you tried in the past.
Who you tried it against, what judgeyou were in front of, what the decision
was, whether it was criminal orcivil and then the facts of the case.
And then in addition to that,you also have to list the
names of at least 75 attorneys.
(09:42):
Or judges, but I think the 75 mayjust be attorneys that know of you
in regards to, either attorneys thatopposed you, or worked with you, but
know of your professional abilities.
And so, you have to give theirinformation and those individuals
and judges that you appeared in frontof are contacted to evaluate you.
(10:07):
And so, it's it's a humongous process,very labor intensive in regards to what
you have to put into it in order foryou it to be a good application so that
you have, hopefully a good chance of,of being, appointed by the governor.
And then I guess the governormakes the final decision.
(10:29):
That's my understanding.
Yes.
The governor, it is the governorthat actually selects the judges,
that apply in that process.
And that's based on the informationthey receive from the attorneys
and other judges and peoplethat you list as references.
Correct.
And, and so I guess theysend out questionnaires
they do
(10:50):
to, to these people.
They do.
And they contact them, as you said,
And they also send them out toother attorneys and judges that
you didn't put on your list.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, that likely practice inthe, region where you practice,
so that they can get a broad.
Base of information in regardsto, what, attorneys and
(11:12):
judges really think about you.
And so, and of course your responsesare confidential and so, there's a
rating standard process from extremelyoutstanding to not , satisfactory.
They can rate you anywhere.
There's about five different levelsand they can rate you anywhere
(11:34):
between the top and the bottom.
And, the governor looks at all of that.
The governor's, appointment secretary,governor has staff that reviews the
applications and things of that sort.
And so, as I indicated it's a process.
I understand too that they send out the,the evaluations to bar associations.
Yes.
They do send out the applications.
(11:58):
Two, or they reach out to barAssociations because they also want
to find out your community ties andinvolvement with the legal community.
And, they're also interested inother activities that you feel
should be brought to their attention.
The bar associations areimportant because they.
(12:21):
You and, that their positionsor their opinions seem to be,
extremely relevant to the governorand to the, governor's appointment.
Secretary is pol.
Does politics ever become involved
politic, I.
(12:44):
When you run for a judge or whenyou put in your application to
hopefully be appointed, if that'sthe route you wanna take judges
are not considered politicians.
And for instance, when you'reon the ballot, it does not list.
Your, the party affiliation.
(13:05):
So, it is political in regards to thefact, especially if you are running,
to become a judge or you have beenchallenged and now you have this
campaign that you have to undertake.
So it, it is political in thatsense, but otherwise it is
not considered a political.
(13:26):
Well, the only reason I raise it isbecause I've heard that a Democratic
governor is more likely to appointDemocratic judges and judges who are
Democrats and a Republican governor ismore likely to re appoint, Republican.
Probably the better person to askthat question would be the governor.
(13:48):
Cool.
But I think statistics have shownthat to be true, that, when we have a,
democratic governor in in office, thatthere are more, democrats, judges that
are appointed that, are affiliated withthe Democratic Party and vice versa.
So when you have a Republican governor,I think the opposite is true as well.
(14:11):
All
right.
Okay, ladies and gentlemen, we reallyhave a nice treat for you today.
Today we have the Honorable GloriaWhite Brown, and she's going to be
talking to us about how to becomea judge and how judges think we're
gonna get into the mind of a judge.
(00:20):
Gloria White Brown is a retiredsuperior court judge for the county
of Los Angeles, and she served.
25 years.
Was it Gloria?
Not quite More like 22.
Oh, 22.
I was close.
My close may not count in a courtof law, but she's gonna be talking
(00:40):
to us about, like I said, about whatgoes into the thought processes.
And what they consider to be valuableand persuasive, shall we say.
So let's just get it on first.
Gloria, I'm just wondering how does onebecome a judge in the state of California?
(01:01):
I. Well, first of all, helloto everyone that's listening.
I'm going to answer these questions,uh, based upon my experiences and
there may be different answers,that other judges or attorneys
would give in certain circumstances.
But for me, in regards to how did Ibecome a judge, well, I went through
(01:23):
after graduating from high school.
I went to undergrad college fouryears, and I majored in political
science, which at that time, wayback when was the pre-law major.
That was the major that, we wereadvised to take in undergrad in order
(01:44):
to become a lawyer to go to law school.
So I attended UCLA.
I graduated with a BS, bachelor'sof Science in Political Science
and then went on to law school and,in regards to, becoming a judge,
you first have to be a lawyer.
So after graduating from law school,passing the bar exam, I became a licensed
(02:11):
member of the State of Californiabar and, started practicing law.
In that situation, Ihad various, practices.
I would say I first, practicedwith a personal injury firm.
Actually they were more vastthan a personal injury firm.
(02:34):
They handled landlord tenant.
They also handled, family matters as well.
Family law matters.
And so I Weren't you withJacobi and Myers for a while?
Well, that famous firm, well, yes,that is the firm I'm speaking of.
I just wasn't going tomention their names.
Oh, I'm sorry.
That's okay.
And so I, so I started off withthem while I was in law school.
(02:54):
Actually.
I clerked with the Legal Aid Society,which was wonderful experience.
Uh, that's a whole nother story and Idon't think we have time to go into that.
Law school, uh, after law school, JacobyMyers was my first real employment.
Mm-hmm.
And then I left there after a coupleof years and went to the Los Angeles
(03:16):
County District Attorney's Office.
And, that was a wonderfulexperience for me.
I gained.
A lot of trial experience I handled inexcess of, 250 trials ju jury trials and
what we call bench trials before a judgeand I had a 97% conviction success rate.
(03:39):
Are you telling the truth?
Oh, judges can't lie.
Okay.
97%. Wow.
The DA's office was a wonderful experiencefor me, as I stated, and in the end,
I, was a member of a, hardcore gangunit and tried, nothing but gang murder
trials that ended up ex itself in ofitself is a, another story as well.
(04:02):
But, . The DA's office, I then went toa, another prosecutorial office and that
was the , air Quality Management Districtcommonly referred to as the A QMD left.
Actually.
Went to that office, because theyneeded trial attorneys and, I was
recommended, went there and worked onthe prosecutor's side, environmental
(04:27):
law, which was very interesting.
And then, after about five years inthe environmental section, I then
went over to the general counsel sideand became a deputy district Counsel.
For the actual agency and,basically represented the agency
in regards to, any legal matters.
(04:47):
After those experiences, or actually.
During those experiences, I completedmy judge application and, submitted
it, while I was at the A QMD.
And then, was interviewed by thegovernor's appointment secretary.
And was appointed tothe bench in year 2002.
(05:12):
So let me get this straight.
To become a judge in the state ofCalifornia, you first have to be a lawyer.
To become a lawyer, you gotta go to lawschool or there is an apprenticeship.
Program, but we won't talk about that.
Right.
But, uh, that's the,
that's the Kim Kardashian
method.
Oh, okay.
Thank you very much.
You're welcome.
And the, so you have to become a lawyer.
(05:33):
How long do you have to be a lawyerbefore you can do you apply or do
you get elected to become a judge?
Okay.
Well, there's a couple ofquestions in there, so yes.
Typical now you have to be alawyer for at least 10 years
to be a superior court judge.
And in the past it wasa little bit different.
I believe at one point to become amunicipal court judge and there's
(05:57):
no more municipal court so.
This is really irrelevant.
I think the time period was youhad to be on the an attorney for
at least five years, but municipalcourts went away many many years ago.
About 22, 5 years ago, municipal courtswent away maybe a little longer than
that, and the, courts in California, thestate courts became a superior court.
(06:19):
And you asked another question.
Yes, I was asking
the what are.
Elected.
Okay.
And or appointed?
Yes.
Okay.
So I was appointed by the governor.
You can be elected, every two years thereare elections and typically there are
(06:39):
a couple of seats that are open that.
Attorneys, will vie for, in regardsto, trying to become a judge.
They, some attorneys prefer that method,going that route instead of turning in
the, massive application and going throughthe, very intense interview process.
(07:02):
And then, hopefully getting theappointment by the governor.
So I was a, I was appointed,by Governor Gray Davis.
And and then after that, however,every six years your seat, becomes
available or is up for election rather.
And if no one challenges you, thenyou're not on the BA ballot, excuse me.
(07:26):
And and you just went automatically.
If someone does challenge you, meaninganother attorney, or attorneys, if
they challenge you, then it's the.
A process that you go through campaigning,raising funds the standard normal kind
of things that, one would go throughin order to try to win an election.
(07:50):
However, most incumbent judges.
Are reelected.
I think it's very rare thatan incumbent judge is not
reelected in those situations.
So a person trying to become ajudge for the first time, they.
Try to be, become, they could try theelection process, which apparently
I hear can cost a lot of money.
(08:12):
Well, I don't know how much it costsbecause I've never participated in
that, but yes, I do understand thatit is extremely costly and, think
hundreds of thousands, hundreds ofthousands of dollars, is the norm in
regards to money that is raised andor spent in those election contest.
But I hear those applications can takedays to fill out and they're detailed.
(08:35):
They wanna know all your historyand well, your cases you've tried
and all of this kind of stuff.
The application process is, Idescribe it as gruesome because, the
application, if I recall correctly,is once you complete it is about an
inch thick, an inch and a half thick.
It requires so much informationand it takes, I think just from
(08:59):
speaking to colleagues, I think ittakes the average, attorney that
is applying to become a judge,months to complete that application.
Because first of all, you wannamake sure you're providing,
accurate and adequate information.
And so, it takes a lot of research.
(09:20):
Hopefully you kept information in regardsto cases that you tried in the past.
Who you tried it against, what judgeyou were in front of, what the decision
was, whether it was criminal orcivil and then the facts of the case.
And then in addition to that,you also have to list the
names of at least 75 attorneys.
(09:42):
Or judges, but I think the 75 mayjust be attorneys that know of you
in regards to, either attorneys thatopposed you, or worked with you, but
know of your professional abilities.
And so, you have to give theirinformation and those individuals
and judges that you appeared in frontof are contacted to evaluate you.
(10:07):
And so, it's it's a humongous process,very labor intensive in regards to what
you have to put into it in order foryou it to be a good application so that
you have, hopefully a good chance of,of being, appointed by the governor.
And then I guess the governormakes the final decision.
(10:29):
That's my understanding.
Yes.
The governor, it is the governorthat actually selects the judges,
that apply in that process.
And that's based on the informationthey receive from the attorneys
and other judges and peoplethat you list as references.
Correct.
And, and so I guess theysend out questionnaires
they do
(10:50):
to, to these people.
They do.
And they contact them, as you said,
And they also send them out toother attorneys and judges that
you didn't put on your list.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, that likely practice inthe, region where you practice,
so that they can get a broad.
Base of information in regardsto, what, attorneys and
(11:12):
judges really think about you.
And so, and of course your responsesare confidential and so, there's a
rating standard process from extremelyoutstanding to not , satisfactory.
They can rate you anywhere.
There's about five different levelsand they can rate you anywhere
(11:34):
between the top and the bottom.
And, the governor looks at all of that.
The governor's, appointment secretary,governor has staff that reviews the
applications and things of that sort.
And so, as I indicated it's a process.
I understand too that they send out the,the evaluations to bar associations.
Yes.
They do send out the applications.
(11:58):
Two, or they reach out to barAssociations because they also want
to find out your community ties andinvolvement with the legal community.
And, they're also interested inother activities that you feel
should be brought to their attention.
The bar associations areimportant because they.
(12:21):
You and, that their positionsor their opinions seem to be,
extremely relevant to the governorand to the, governor's appointment.
Secretary is pol.
Does politics ever become involved
politic, I.
(12:44):
When you run for a judge or whenyou put in your application to
hopefully be appointed, if that'sthe route you wanna take judges
are not considered politicians.
And for instance, when you'reon the ballot, it does not list.
Your, the party affiliation.
(13:05):
So, it is political in regards to thefact, especially if you are running,
to become a judge or you have beenchallenged and now you have this
campaign that you have to undertake.
So it, it is political in thatsense, but otherwise it is
not considered a political.
(13:26):
Well, the only reason I raise it isbecause I've heard that a Democratic
governor is more likely to appointDemocratic judges and judges who are
Democrats and a Republican governor ismore likely to re appoint, Republican.
Probably the better person to askthat question would be the governor.
(13:48):
Cool.
But I think statistics have shownthat to be true, that, when we have a,
democratic governor in in office, thatthere are more, democrats, judges that
are appointed that, are affiliated withthe Democratic Party and vice versa.
So when you have a Republican governor,I think the opposite is true as well.
(14:11):
All
right.
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