June 12, 2025 • 17 mins
What does it really take to make a fair and just decision in a courtroom? Judge White Brown reveals the essential pillars every judge leans on: the facts, the law, and credibility. In this insightful episode, we dive deep into what makes for a fair trial and how judges balance these factors to render a just verdict. If you’ve ever wondered how judges stay impartial, this episode is for you. The Logical Lawyer Bernie Brown brings it to you!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Coming up on this episode ofthe Logical Lawyer Podcast.
(00:03):
Okay, so quality.
So what's the best way fora lawyer to win their case?
Well, I think three words
(00:27):
where.
In uncertain times,he's your guiding life.
So gather around.
Let's set things right.
Welcome to the Logical Lawyer Podcastwith attorney Bernie Brown, retired
(00:48):
Los Angeles Assistant City attorney.
With decades of legal experience andalso extensive leadership experience
serving in top bar associations likethe John m Langston Bar Association and
the Association of Black City Attorneys,Bernie is powered by a deep personal
testimony that took him from South CentralLA to the courtrooms of downtown la.
(01:10):
Bernie dives into today's toughestlegal, social, and spiritual issues.
He brings facts.
Answers and sharp analysisto cut through all the noise.
So are you ready for ano nonsense perspective?
Then let's get started withyour host attorney, Bernie
Brown, the logical lawyer.
All righty.
(01:31):
That special day comes andyou're a judge and you walk out
there and you take the bench.
Now you've done it for decadesnow, and so I'm wondering over the
years, what have you found to be.
The most important factorsin deciding a case.
All right.
Well, the most important factorsin deciding a case that I believe
(01:59):
in deciding a case are thefacts, the law and credibility.
You know, every judge isdifferent, but I think most judges.
Likely find that those areasare what they look at as well.
So the facts of the case, you listento both sides, you apply the law
(02:21):
that is applicable, which can makea difference in regards to how
you look at the facts of the case.
And then lastly, credibility.
Credibility of the witnessesthat are testifying.
And so.
Credibility plays a huge part becausethat has to do with what, who you
believe, what you believe, how muchyou believe, things of that sort.
(02:45):
Is there a reason someone is testifyinga certain way, are they credible or not?
And so I. In my opinion, those arethe three main factors that that I
look at in regards to deciding a case.
So what do you look for in theattorney's pleadings, briefs and motions.
(03:05):
What impresses you?
But this impresses youif there were such a word
in regards to attorneys,pleadings, briefs, and motions.
It depends.
In criminal law, it'sdifferent than civil law.
And so in criminal law,there's not a lot of.
(03:26):
Pleadings, briefs, andnecessarily motions.
That's more in the civil arena.
However, what I do look for in general iscompleteness, is accuracy, is competence
in regards to what is stated in theirpleadings and motions and briefs.
(03:48):
And I also look for conciseness.
Because the attorneys have to be able tospell out what they need to spell out in a
certain time period or in a certain numberof pages, and they need to be able to.
Convince the trier of fact, whether it'sa trial or if it's a motion, the bench
(04:13):
officer, in regards to their positionand the strengths of their case in
those pleadings and briefs and motions.
And so I think that if an attorney knows.
Their case knows their facts, knows thestrengths and the weaknesses of their
cases or their situations that arebeing brought before, before the court.
(04:39):
That is extremelyimportant and very helpful.
To the court in regards tomaking a correct decision?
Hmm.
Wow.
Well, I'm a lawyer
and I never knew those things.
That's what you're thinking about, huh?
I know.
I'm just kidding you.
But let me ask you, you mentionedcredibility, judging, veracity, honesty.
(05:03):
How do you decide who's tellingthe truth and who's lying?
What are you looking for?
You know, that is something that I think,at least for me, initially, when I first
became a judge versus my latter yearsas a bench officer, as a judge, I, I
think you gain insight in regards to.
(05:27):
What to look for.
Cues and clues is how I state it.
And so I, I picked thatup later in my career.
Things to look for certain, there'ssometimes there's a way witnesses
will answer a question the way.
They reflect on a question, their generalexpression, their eye movement, their
(05:51):
pause before they answer a question.
There's a lot of little cues and cluesthat I think are important and that I
think as you mature as a bench officer,you see those things and you realize
what those things are, and that thatplayed a part for me as well as a course.
(06:13):
Listening to the evidence and pickingup on the facts and any inconsistencies
and things of that sort in order tomake a decision or to determine who's
being truthful or who's maybe not being.
Completely truthful,
you know, in your cases.
(06:33):
Okay, so you, you're analyzing thecase and you're considering who's
telling the truth, who's lying.
You're considering bias and you'rethinking about it, their motive for lying,
and you're looking at all the evidenceand all the circumstances, and do you
ever consider what's fair and equitable?
Is that one of the thingsthat you consider fairness
(06:54):
and equity in your decisions?
Absolutely.
Those are the two very important factorsin regards to making a decision is being
fair, and so that's why the, you seealways the scales being balanced or.
Trying to be balanced and the justiceis wearing a blindfold so that
(07:18):
you are not swayed by other thingsthat commonly can sway someone.
So for instance, we asjudges, try our best to not be
prejudiced or let our prejudices.
Affect our decisions.
Everyone has prejudicesand not Clarence Thomas.
(07:42):
Okay?
Anyway, everyone, most mortalbeings have certain prejudices
that you that have, that are there.
Who knows when they started.
Maybe as a child, maybe you got thosecertain prejudices later in life.
But the main thing as a judge is to.
Realize and understand those, whateverthey are, and everyone has them, and not
(08:06):
to allow those to impact your decision.
You want to be fair to both sides.
You want to listen.
You want to make a decisionbased upon the facts and the law.
And so it's human nature I think,to wanna be swayed based upon
(08:27):
maybe some other things other thanfairness and equity sometimes.
But a bench officer takes an oathand most bench officers that I know,
probably all that I know, I think.
Hold those qualities very highlyin regards to being fair and being
(08:51):
equitable, as fair and equitable as theycan in regards to the hearing a trial.
And so those factors are very important.
Does
the quality of the attorneys matter?
I mean, does it matter or isit just the facts and the law?
Is it just.
Yes,
the quality of the attorneydoes matter because I think
(09:12):
quality matters in most things.
And so of course if you havean attorney that is prepared,
has done their homework, has.
Spoken with their witnesses or donetheir legal research, knows their
case backwards and forwards, versus anattorney that has not done those things.
(09:35):
I think that shows thequality of an attorney.
I resemble that remark.
I. And so and so quality.
Quality, in my opinion, does matter.
Okay, so quality.
So what's the best way fora lawyer to win their case?
(09:55):
Well, I think three words.
Preparation and preparation.
Oh, you're sounding likeJohnny Cochrane now.
So preparation is of utmostimportance in regards to winning a
case, in my opinion, first of all.
The attorney needs to knowtheir case inside and out.
(10:17):
They need to know thestrengths of their case.
They need to know theweaknesses of their case.
They need to haveprepared their witnesses.
That doesn't mean coaching, quoteunquote coaching their witnesses.
It just means sitting down, spending timewith their witnesses, listening to them.
Finding out what the witnesses reallyknow and not assuming certain things
(10:40):
and questioning those witnesses so thatthey're not necessarily completely naive
of what the process is going to be andwhat the questions are going to be.
Preparation, I think, is thenumber one thing, in my opinion
in regards to being successful.
(11:01):
If you don't know your case.
You know there, there's an old saying thatyou never ask a witness a question that
you don't know the answer to, and so I.
I agree with that pretty much because ifyou're prepared, you should have already
gone over that information, and that'snot coaching a witness, that's just being
(11:22):
prepared so that the witness, as I stated,knows what to expect, knows what kind
of court knows what questions are goingbe asked, and in advance pretty much
what the answers should be Sometimes.
Things happen and sometimes unexpectedanswers come out of a witness's mouth.
(11:44):
But I think if you're prepared andyou know your case, you know the
strengths and the weaknesses ofyour case, you can handle that.
And I'm sure that probably happens inevery trial and maybe multiple times.
In every trial, but if you know your case,then you can handle that as an attorney.
Thank you, judge White Brown.
(12:05):
I'm a better lawyer now.
Having listened to you, maybe wecan get you on the Supreme Court
and you can help those people.
Help those justices get some, gettheir decisions in line with Well,
okay, I'm not gonna say anymore.
I'll stop that.
Okay.
So thank you everyone.
(12:25):
I welcome your comments atthe Logical lawyer@gmail.com.
So the webpage is illogical attorney.me.
The book is a prosecutor's analysisof Personal Supernatural experiences,
and then the other webpage isthe supernatural attorney.net.
Yes, there's a lot going on here,but it's been quite rewarding
(12:47):
listening to you Judge White Brown.
You're this intelligence, this brilliance,this knowledge, this wisdom is just, it's
just flowing in the ether now, and I thinkI got a little bit of it in my brain here.
So thank you very much.
Thank you all.
Have a wonderful day and uh, thank you.
(13:08):
I live you with this.
I am the logical lawyer.
May the love of truth,knowledge, and logic liberate.
Your mind.
Ooh, bye now.
Bye.
Well, that's a wrap for thisepisode of The Logical Lawyer.
If you found this insightful, be sure tolike, follow, subscribe, leave a review,
(13:30):
and share it with others who appreciatestraight talk and sharp analysis.
Got a question or a topic for Bernie.
We'd love to hear from you.
Connect with bernie@thelawyer.me.
That's at the lawyerme, and you've got it.
So until next time, stay informed.
Think critically, and as always.
(13:50):
Keep it logical.
Bernie Brown with knowledge profound
in the realm of justice he's renowned.
Seek the logical where answersare found on each new show.
Sound.
Coming up on this episode ofthe Logical Lawyer Podcast.
(00:03):
Okay, so quality.
So what's the best way fora lawyer to win their case?
Well, I think three words
(00:27):
where.
In uncertain times,he's your guiding life.
So gather around.
Let's set things right.
Welcome to the Logical Lawyer Podcastwith attorney Bernie Brown, retired
(00:48):
Los Angeles Assistant City attorney.
With decades of legal experience andalso extensive leadership experience
serving in top bar associations likethe John m Langston Bar Association and
the Association of Black City Attorneys,Bernie is powered by a deep personal
testimony that took him from South CentralLA to the courtrooms of downtown la.
(01:10):
Bernie dives into today's toughestlegal, social, and spiritual issues.
He brings facts.
Answers and sharp analysisto cut through all the noise.
So are you ready for ano nonsense perspective?
Then let's get started withyour host attorney, Bernie
Brown, the logical lawyer.
All righty.
(01:31):
That special day comes andyou're a judge and you walk out
there and you take the bench.
Now you've done it for decadesnow, and so I'm wondering over the
years, what have you found to be.
The most important factorsin deciding a case.
All right.
Well, the most important factorsin deciding a case that I believe
(01:59):
in deciding a case are thefacts, the law and credibility.
You know, every judge isdifferent, but I think most judges.
Likely find that those areasare what they look at as well.
So the facts of the case, you listento both sides, you apply the law
(02:21):
that is applicable, which can makea difference in regards to how
you look at the facts of the case.
And then lastly, credibility.
Credibility of the witnessesthat are testifying.
And so.
Credibility plays a huge part becausethat has to do with what, who you
believe, what you believe, how muchyou believe, things of that sort.
(02:45):
Is there a reason someone is testifyinga certain way, are they credible or not?
And so I. In my opinion, those arethe three main factors that that I
look at in regards to deciding a case.
So what do you look for in theattorney's pleadings, briefs and motions.
(03:05):
What impresses you?
But this impresses youif there were such a word
in regards to attorneys,pleadings, briefs, and motions.
It depends.
In criminal law, it'sdifferent than civil law.
And so in criminal law,there's not a lot of.
(03:26):
Pleadings, briefs, andnecessarily motions.
That's more in the civil arena.
However, what I do look for in general iscompleteness, is accuracy, is competence
in regards to what is stated in theirpleadings and motions and briefs.
(03:48):
And I also look for conciseness.
Because the attorneys have to be able tospell out what they need to spell out in a
certain time period or in a certain numberof pages, and they need to be able to.
Convince the trier of fact, whether it'sa trial or if it's a motion, the bench
(04:13):
officer, in regards to their positionand the strengths of their case in
those pleadings and briefs and motions.
And so I think that if an attorney knows.
Their case knows their facts, knows thestrengths and the weaknesses of their
cases or their situations that arebeing brought before, before the court.
(04:39):
That is extremelyimportant and very helpful.
To the court in regards tomaking a correct decision?
Hmm.
Wow.
Well, I'm a lawyer
and I never knew those things.
That's what you're thinking about, huh?
I know.
I'm just kidding you.
But let me ask you, you mentionedcredibility, judging, veracity, honesty.
(05:03):
How do you decide who's tellingthe truth and who's lying?
What are you looking for?
You know, that is something that I think,at least for me, initially, when I first
became a judge versus my latter yearsas a bench officer, as a judge, I, I
think you gain insight in regards to.
(05:27):
What to look for.
Cues and clues is how I state it.
And so I, I picked thatup later in my career.
Things to look for certain, there'ssometimes there's a way witnesses
will answer a question the way.
They reflect on a question, their generalexpression, their eye movement, their
(05:51):
pause before they answer a question.
There's a lot of little cues and cluesthat I think are important and that I
think as you mature as a bench officer,you see those things and you realize
what those things are, and that thatplayed a part for me as well as a course.
(06:13):
Listening to the evidence and pickingup on the facts and any inconsistencies
and things of that sort in order tomake a decision or to determine who's
being truthful or who's maybe not being.
Completely truthful,
you know, in your cases.
(06:33):
Okay, so you, you're analyzing thecase and you're considering who's
telling the truth, who's lying.
You're considering bias and you'rethinking about it, their motive for lying,
and you're looking at all the evidenceand all the circumstances, and do you
ever consider what's fair and equitable?
Is that one of the thingsthat you consider fairness
(06:54):
and equity in your decisions?
Absolutely.
Those are the two very important factorsin regards to making a decision is being
fair, and so that's why the, you seealways the scales being balanced or.
Trying to be balanced and the justiceis wearing a blindfold so that
(07:18):
you are not swayed by other thingsthat commonly can sway someone.
So for instance, we asjudges, try our best to not be
prejudiced or let our prejudices.
Affect our decisions.
Everyone has prejudicesand not Clarence Thomas.
(07:42):
Okay?
Anyway, everyone, most mortalbeings have certain prejudices
that you that have, that are there.
Who knows when they started.
Maybe as a child, maybe you got thosecertain prejudices later in life.
But the main thing as a judge is to.
Realize and understand those, whateverthey are, and everyone has them, and not
(08:06):
to allow those to impact your decision.
You want to be fair to both sides.
You want to listen.
You want to make a decisionbased upon the facts and the law.
And so it's human nature I think,to wanna be swayed based upon
(08:27):
maybe some other things other thanfairness and equity sometimes.
But a bench officer takes an oathand most bench officers that I know,
probably all that I know, I think.
Hold those qualities very highlyin regards to being fair and being
(08:51):
equitable, as fair and equitable as theycan in regards to the hearing a trial.
And so those factors are very important.
Does
the quality of the attorneys matter?
I mean, does it matter or isit just the facts and the law?
Is it just.
Yes,
the quality of the attorneydoes matter because I think
(09:12):
quality matters in most things.
And so of course if you havean attorney that is prepared,
has done their homework, has.
Spoken with their witnesses or donetheir legal research, knows their
case backwards and forwards, versus anattorney that has not done those things.
(09:35):
I think that shows thequality of an attorney.
I resemble that remark.
I. And so and so quality.
Quality, in my opinion, does matter.
Okay, so quality.
So what's the best way fora lawyer to win their case?
(09:55):
Well, I think three words.
Preparation and preparation.
Oh, you're sounding likeJohnny Cochrane now.
So preparation is of utmostimportance in regards to winning a
case, in my opinion, first of all.
The attorney needs to knowtheir case inside and out.
(10:17):
They need to know thestrengths of their case.
They need to know theweaknesses of their case.
They need to haveprepared their witnesses.
That doesn't mean coaching, quoteunquote coaching their witnesses.
It just means sitting down, spending timewith their witnesses, listening to them.
Finding out what the witnesses reallyknow and not assuming certain things
(10:40):
and questioning those witnesses so thatthey're not necessarily completely naive
of what the process is going to be andwhat the questions are going to be.
Preparation, I think, is thenumber one thing, in my opinion
in regards to being successful.
(11:01):
If you don't know your case.
You know there, there's an old saying thatyou never ask a witness a question that
you don't know the answer to, and so I.
I agree with that pretty much because ifyou're prepared, you should have already
gone over that information, and that'snot coaching a witness, that's just being
(11:22):
prepared so that the witness, as I stated,knows what to expect, knows what kind
of court knows what questions are goingbe asked, and in advance pretty much
what the answers should be Sometimes.
Things happen and sometimes unexpectedanswers come out of a witness's mouth.
(11:44):
But I think if you're prepared andyou know your case, you know the
strengths and the weaknesses ofyour case, you can handle that.
And I'm sure that probably happens inevery trial and maybe multiple times.
In every trial, but if you know your case,then you can handle that as an attorney.
Thank you, judge White Brown.
(12:05):
I'm a better lawyer now.
Having listened to you, maybe wecan get you on the Supreme Court
and you can help those people.
Help those justices get some, gettheir decisions in line with Well,
okay, I'm not gonna say anymore.
I'll stop that.
Okay.
So thank you everyone.
(12:25):
I welcome your comments atthe Logical lawyer@gmail.com.
So the webpage is illogical attorney.me.
The book is a prosecutor's analysisof Personal Supernatural experiences,
and then the other webpage isthe supernatural attorney.net.
Yes, there's a lot going on here,but it's been quite rewarding
(12:47):
listening to you Judge White Brown.
You're this intelligence, this brilliance,this knowledge, this wisdom is just, it's
just flowing in the ether now, and I thinkI got a little bit of it in my brain here.
So thank you very much.
Thank you all.
Have a wonderful day and uh, thank you.
(13:08):
I live you with this.
I am the logical lawyer.
May the love of truth,knowledge, and logic liberate.
Your mind.
Ooh, bye now.
Bye.
Well, that's a wrap for thisepisode of The Logical Lawyer.
If you found this insightful, be sure tolike, follow, subscribe, leave a review,
(13:30):
and share it with others who appreciatestraight talk and sharp analysis.
Got a question or a topic for Bernie.
We'd love to hear from you.
Connect with bernie@thelawyer.me.
That's at the lawyerme, and you've got it.
So until next time, stay informed.
Think critically, and as always.
(13:50):
Keep it logical.
Bernie Brown with knowledge profound
in the realm of justice he's renowned.
Seek the logical where answersare found on each new show.
Sound.
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