Grief is one of life’s most painful teachers—but in the darkness, there can be light. In this powerful and heartfelt episode of The Midlife Makeover Show, Wendy sits down with Lisa Boehm, a certified grief educator, inspirational speaker, and author of Journey to Healing: A Mother’s Guide to Navigating Child Loss. After the unimaginable loss of her 17-year-old daughter Katie, Lisa turned her pain into purpose by creating a supportive community for grieving mothers and sharing practical tools for healing.
Together, Wendy and Lisa dive deep into the raw reality of grief, the myths that keep us silent, and the healing power of embracing both sorrow and joy. Lisa shares her “H.O.P.E.” pillars—four transformative strategies to carry you through grief of any kind, whether it’s the loss of a loved one, a relationship, your health, or your identity. This conversation will comfort your soul, open your heart, and remind you that even in the depths of loss, you are not alone.
💫 What You’ll Learn:
- How to navigate grief using Lisa’s “H.O.P.E.” framework
- Why it’s okay (and necessary) to feel both grief and joy
- The dos and don’ts of supporting someone who’s grieving
- How to find meaning, purpose, and even creativity after loss
- Why surrounding yourself with the right people can be key to healing
🎧 Tune in now at themidlifemakeovershow.com or wherever you listen to podcasts!
👉 Connect with Lisa
www.griefsupportformoms.com
IG: @grefsupportformoms
🌟 Explore All Things Midlife & More
wendyvalentine.com
📖 Grab Your Copy of Women Waking Up
womenwakingup.com
🧘♀️ Find Your Inner Calm with FREEDOM Meditations
freedommeditations.com
🔥 Step Into Your Best Life with FREEDOM at Midlife
freedomatmidlife.com
🦸♀️ Unleash Your Midlife Superpowers!
mysuperheroquiz.com
🎥 Watch, Learn & Laugh on YouTube!
midlifemakeoveryoutube.com
📸 Follow My Midlife Adventures on IG!
@wendy_valentine_
🛍️ Shop My Favorite Midlife Must-Haves!
amazon.wendyvalentine.com
🎤 Know Someone Inspiring? Nominate a Guest!
midlifemakeoverguest.com
⭐️ Love the Show? Leave a 5-Star Review!
nauseous. I'm going to throw up. make this thing
stop. Like, you know, hair blowing back, you know,
whiplash. Horrible.
Now my grief, I would say most
days is like a kiddie roller coaster. There's still
the ups and downs and the dipsy doodles. They're
not nearly as intense. And I
(00:25):
have the confidence
knowing that I have gone through that
Six freaking Flags roller coaster.
I know that I'm going to be okay.
>> Wendy Valentine (00:37):
Hey there, beautiful. I'm Wendy Valentine, your host
of the Midlife Makeover show, where it's never too
late to wake up to your best life. Whether you're
navigating a career change, empty nesting,
menopause, or wondering what's next, you're in
the right place. Every week, I'll bring you real
talk, laughs, and inspiring conversations
(00:57):
with experts and extraordinary women who have
transformed their lives from self care and
relationships to starting over and finding freedom.
This is your time to reinvent,
rediscover, and reignite the woman you were
always meant to be. So hit that subscribe
button and let's rewrite the rules of midlife.
Your new adventure starts now.
(01:31):
Hi, I'm Wendy Valentine, host of the Midlife Makeover
Show. Today I want to share something personal
with you. At 45, my world
turned upside down. I was going through a divorce,
battling depression, grieving the loss of my brother,
and dealing with chronic illness. But I want to tell
you about a turning point in my journey. Therapy.
(01:52):
Speaking to a therapist was a lifeline for me.
It was a safe space where I could express my pain and
start to find my way back to joy and hope. That's
why I'm thrilled to introduce today's sponsor,
BetterHelp. The world's largest therapy service,
BetterHelp offers professional licensed therapists
who are available online at your convenience.
(02:13):
You can message your therapist anytime or schedule
live sessions via video phone or
chat. I believe in the power of therapy because
it helped me navigate the toughest times of my life.
If you're going through a tough time or just need someone to talk
to, I encourage you to try betterhelp. As
a listener of the Midlife Makeover show, you can get
(02:33):
10% off your first month by visiting
betterhelp.com
forward/midlife, or choose the
Midlife Makeover show during sign up.
Welcome back to the Midlife Makeover show, where we
dive deep into the moments that shake us,
shape us, and and.
Ultimately lead us to rise.
(02:53):
Today's guest knows this journey
intimately. Lisa Boe is a certified
grief educator, inspirational speaker, and the
author of Journey to Healing A Mother's Guide
to Navigating Child Loss. After
tragically losing her daughter Katie in a car
accident, Lisa found a way.
To transform her pain into purpose.
(03:15):
Through her angel Mom's community, she now helps
other grieving mothers carry their sorrow.
With grace and rediscover joy on the other
side of heartbreak.
In today's heartfelt episode, Lisa will share
four powerful strategies that can help you
navigate any kind of grief, whether it's the loss of
a loved one, a relationship, a dream, or
(03:36):
even your identity. Midlife. Been there,
done that. We'll also explore the important dos
and don'ts of supporting someone who is grieving,
because, let's face it, none of us.
Are immune to loss.
This conversation is filled with healing, hope,
and humanity.
Please welcome Lisa to the show.
>> Lisa Boehm (03:56):
Hey, Wendy, thank you so much for having me.
I am such a big fan of your podcast.
>> Wendy Valentine (04:02):
You are so sweet. Thank you so much. I love hearing
that. I mean, like, this is such a, like the
podcast author world can be very
crowded, but it can be very lonely. It's like, it's, you
know, like, I get to talk to my guest, but then other than that,
I'm like, is anybody listening?
So thank you so much. And I want to tell you,
(04:22):
first of all, I, I am
so sorry for the loss of Katie. but second of
all, I admire the fact that you
took such a great loss and turned it into a great
gain, not just for yourself, but most
importantly for others. So
thank you for that. I admire your strength to
(04:42):
be able to do that. So thank you.
but, you know, my first question is, I want to know. Tell me about
Katie.
>> Lisa Boehm (04:50):
Oh, boy. She was a spark plug. She
was a spark plug. She was 17,
and a half years old when we lost her in a car accident.
And oddly enough of, my two
kids at that moment in time, she was 17,
my son was 15. We were so
hyper focused on parenting. Our son, he was, you
(05:11):
know, doing all the bad things that parents tell their kids not to do.
He was doing them tenfold, running with a bad crowd,
just making all the bad decisions. And
Katie was, you know, over here doing all the right
things. She was, you know, had
just received an entrance scholarship into two
universities for, nursing.
She had a top notch
(05:33):
boyfriend, you know, for first boyfriend, like, loved him.
He was the son of one of the doctors I work with.
what else? She was a competitive dancer, so she had
all of these healthy lifestyle things. She
was vehemently against drugs and alcohol.
You know, exercised every day, ate well.
So here's me as a mom thinking, well, if this kid's, you
(05:54):
know, focused on education and her health
and has good friends, like, things are good.
Right? And they were. And, this,
as you can imagine, just completely hit us out of. Out of
left field. It didn't see it coming at all. Nobody ever
does. but she was sassy and
spicy, and, I will say that she, you
know, had a little bit of an addiction issue that
(06:16):
was to Sephora makeup. she could. In
fact, her dad took her. Her bank card away from her
one time when she, in one shopping
spree, spent $500.
This is a girl who worked as a hostess at the local
pizza parlor and was not making
top coin to support her makeup
addiction.
>> Wendy Valentine (06:39):
I think I. Actually, we share that. I. I have a
makeup addiction, like I had in this rv.
I only have so much space. I had to get rid of some of my lipsticks. I
was like, oh, my God. So can totally.
I can totally understand.
>> Lisa Boehm (06:52):
Yeah, just, you know, some
funny stories about her. She was
heard, you know, you and I were talking, previously, before
we hit record. We were just down in Phoenix,
and that's where my folks used to overwinter. And
Katie, you know, instead of going on spring break trips
with, you know, teenage kids, would choose to
(07:13):
go down and spend it with her. Her grandparents in
Arizona. And she had one of those
loud voices that could be heard
miles away. And she would float around
the pool in her little donut and
say, I can't wait to
retire. She was 17,
(07:33):
so hopefully that gives you a little bit of a glimpse into the
person.
>> Wendy Valentine (07:36):
Yeah. Oh, m. My God, she's amazing. I actually saw the
picture of her on your website where she's in the pool.
She's in that little raft or whatever. Like,
what a bright light. I mean, she
obviously has made a difference, even for the
short time that she was here on planet
Earth, that she was here. Right. In this lifetime, she
(07:57):
made a big difference.
>> Lisa Boehm (07:59):
Absolutely. And it's really a shame that we have
to unfortunately lose people
to then learn things about them. You know,
like, we ended up having to. To
use, a massive church for her
funeral service because, you know, the entire
high school came. And, you know, the stories
(08:20):
that some of these kids would share with us after the
fact, you know, I was feeling suicidal, and Katie
talked me off the ledge, you know, in.
In the bathroom at high school.
>> Wendy Valentine (08:30):
Yeah.
>> Lisa Boehm (08:31):
Or, you know, a young man who,
due to different circumstances, you know,
was. Had some cognitive challenges and she
would say sit with him on her lunch break and help him with
physics, you know, and some of these things that we never
knew about.
>> Wendy Valentine (08:46):
Yeah.
>> Lisa Boehm (08:47):
you know, just an amazing kid all around.
>> Wendy Valentine (08:51):
This might be like totally, like a silly question,
but I'm just curious. Was any. Anyone else with her
that passed away as well or that was in that
accident?
>> Lisa Boehm (09:00):
No, Oddly enough, Wendy, I
had it in my head that she was leaving the house
to go pick someone up to go do this errand.
So when the officer came to our house, you know,
and that was the, first thing I said.
>> Wendy Valentine (09:16):
Yes.
>> Lisa Boehm (09:16):
Who was with her? And he said, no one was with her.
I said, are you sure? Yeah. Yeah.
So, you know, oddly enough, in
those first few moments. This is, this is going
to sound crazy. I had two
moments of deep gratitude.
One was that there was no one else
(09:36):
in the car with her.
And number two, I feel a wee bit guilty saying this, but
I'm grateful that she passed
immediately on impact.
>> Wendy Valentine (09:46):
She did. Yeah. No,
yeah. And you know, I mean, this is. As
a mother of three, it's like, it's like the worst
nightmare that you can think of. Right.
And, and yeah, I agree with you. I would be thinking the
same thing. Like, oh God, you just don't want them to suffer.
Right.
>> Lisa Boehm (10:04):
At all.
>> Wendy Valentine (10:06):
anything about Katie that you like her
strengths? here you are kind of, you know, venturing
in this big business and putting yourself out there
and do you ever think about Katie? And like, if you're
nervous or fearful about doing something and then
you, you kind of adopt some of her skills
and her strengths.
>> Lisa Boehm (10:26):
More than that, I will call her to be
with me, like during, during an interview like
this. It's like, okay, girlfriend, I need you here.
I need you here. you know, or I need to channel
your, you know, de vivre. Or I
need, I need you here. And it's funny
you should ask me that because from the moment she
(10:46):
passed away, I have
felt her with me. you know, this is probably another
topic for another day, but she came to me in the
most vivid way the night that she
passed away. Like, no one
on this planet can tell me otherwise.
and then there's just been so many things in the last
(11:07):
nine and a half years that again, no one can
dispute. And as a, as a
science based health expert,
I do know for a fact that energy cannot be
created or destroyed. Right. We all know that. We learned that in grade
ten science.
>> Wendy Valentine (11:22):
Yep.
>> Lisa Boehm (11:23):
and I just believe she's with me, and I believe that
my life has now become her legacy. I don't
want anybody to ever look at me and go, oh, ah,
Jesus. Yes, Mom. You
know, instead, I want them to look at me and maybe what
I'm doing with my life, saying,
ah, yeah, I see some
(11:45):
Katie in there.
>> Wendy Valentine (11:46):
Yeah, I know. I. I mean, I feel like I know her
just because of talking to you.
Yeah, so. And
I'm sure I cannot even fathom
what the pain was like
in those beginning. Weeks,
Days. Weeks, months. Years.
(12:07):
At what point do you recall,
if you can, of, like, where it started to turn?
Where you were kind of, like, coming out of that darkness
and it was starting to, like, lift?
>> Lisa Boehm (12:21):
I would say, it got real
bad before it started getting better. and I
learned that this is normal, and that is suicidal thoughts.
The pain is so intense.
The missing is
off the charts. All you want is to be
with them, hold them, talk with them again. You just want
(12:43):
one more minute with your child.
And I actually did find myself in
a place at the time. My husband and I,
had quite a collection of wine
from traveling and just. We enjoyed it.
And I was using sleeping pills
because sleep is very evasive
(13:05):
after you have experienced a great loss.
And my husband's a pharmacist, and I don't know if that has anything to do with
it, but I remember sitting there
trying to calculate how
much wine and how many sleeping pills,
you know, to get to the other side.
And there must, You know, my brain, thankfully,
(13:27):
would just stop me always at a certain point,
like, I could never figure it out. And I. I think that's,
you know, a good thing, obviously,
but in that moment of darkness and this.
This kind of thinking went on for about a month.
You know, if I pulled my car out into
traffic, if I, you know, how long
would it take? And, I mean, I'm a wimp, and I'm. I just.
(13:50):
None of these were gonna pan out. But
the. The wine and the. And the pills kind of were something
that stuck in my head. And then one
day I was just thinking and thinking and thinking and thinking about this,
but then my eyes were just drawn to the pictures of my
kids. And even
though, you know, Katie clearly wasn't here
anymore, I could almost see her through her picture in her
(14:13):
eyes, like, just the
disappointment and just like, come on, Mom. you know,
like, come on. I am not going to be around
you if this is the way you're going to be thinking and being.
And then I looked at My son, picture of him
and he, while he was, you
know, kind of in a not so great place before Katie died,
(14:34):
I would say he as well went
deeper and darker.
and I remember thinking, okay, Lisa,
if you do this, what
chance does your son have,
and my husband, frankly, of ever getting their
feet back on the ground.
>> Wendy Valentine (14:52):
Yeah.
>> Lisa Boehm (14:52):
And that was just kind of my holy moment. And it was
like, oh, you know, pills in the garbage. And,
you know, called my husband at work and said, I think I need some
help. And m. So that was
probably the biggest pivot.
but then there was another one about four or five
months later. And we
(15:13):
did a lot of traveling after Katie died.
Now, not big extravagant, go to Hawaii,
anything like that, but we really felt
like we needed to learn how to become a family of
three. And I know that sounds ridiculous.
>> Wendy Valentine (15:27):
No. yeah, I mean, the whole dynamic changes, right?
Everything.
>> Lisa Boehm (15:31):
Right, right, everything. Like you go to a restaurant, how
many for how many? And you know, sometimes even now, I'll
sometimes say four. Oh, okay.
so we really traveled and sometimes it was just weekend
getaways because you know what it's like, even if you do a
staycation, you know, you're on your phone or you're all, let's
paint the fence, or let's. The kid is off playing video games
(15:51):
with his buddies, whatever. So we, we
would travel. And one of the places that we traveled to
was in the summer after we lost Katie. And if
anybody's familiar, British Columbia, Canada,
Vancouver Island. Yeah, we were there
the end of July
and we went through this
(16:12):
hike and it was like through redwood forest and
we were the only ones on the hike and it was just
gorgeous.
And then it spit us out onto this phenomenal
beach. And to this day, I don't know
why there was nobody on that beach. Like, it was
like we were meant to be there. Spit us out on this beach.
And, you know, I found all these heart shaped rocks
(16:35):
and I wrote Katie's name in the sand. M.
And my husband and son started walking down the beach a little
ways. And I remember tipping my head up
to the sun and smiling
for the first time. Oh,
you know, I thought, this is the perfect
day. The sun feels warm on my skin.
(16:56):
I've got ocean on my feet. I've got forest
over there, this gorgeous beach.
And then it was like a punch in the gut. It was like, oh my God,
what is wrong with me? Like, what is wrong with
me? Your daughter is dead.
>> Wendy Valentine (17:11):
like feeling guilty for being happy.
>> Lisa Boehm (17:13):
Guilty for being happy. But then you know,
the little whatever voice over here said. But
just a second, in that moment,
that one minute that you smiled and you were happy,
did you forget Katie? Nope.
Did your grief just magically evaporate into thin
air? Hell no. So that's kind of
(17:34):
when I learned that I could carry grief in one hand
and joy in the other and try not to
feel guilty about it.
>> Wendy Valentine (17:43):
Very well said. Grief in one hand,
enjoying the other. Yeah.
And I know, like looking back, for me,
like when my, my husband died at the age of 26
and I can remember feeling like
it was like the opposite. Like I wasn't allowed to grieve and
that if I felt too low, then I was a weak mom
(18:04):
or I wasn't, you know, so I was like trying to put up this
front, like, I'm fine, I'm fine. I've got shit to do
and life goes on. And
unfortunately that of
me not grieving for Jason,
that caught up with me 20 years later
when my brother died.
>> Lisa Boehm (18:23):
Oh dear.
>> Wendy Valentine (18:24):
Yeah. And so it was like a double whammy.
So I'm curious, are there, were there any other
losses that kind of came to the surface for
you at the same time as grieving
for, for Katie?
>> Lisa Boehm (18:39):
I would say not personally.
>> Wendy Valentine (18:41):
Okay.
>> Lisa Boehm (18:42):
but I would say that around the time that
Katie died.
My sister in law lost
three family members within four months. Like
Katie was kind of there. It was awful. Her
brother was 51. And then
unfortunately her sister died of suicide and her,
(19:02):
her elderly father, he. I truly
believe he died from heartache and heartbreak
after that. so attending those
funerals after Katie's, to support her as
best we could, just.
Oh man. You know,
grief definitely has a compounding
effect. And even now, I mean, we had to
(19:25):
put down our 18 and a half year old dog
who outlived Katie, which is so
strange. But we had to put him down, you know, as an act
of compassion. That
was awful. M.
Awful. You know,
kind of rips the scab off of any healing
(19:47):
that has, has occurred.
>> Wendy Valentine (19:49):
Yeah,
the, the four steps that you've talked about
with the grieving. let's, let's, let's go
over those. I'm curious to see. And, and,
and, and it does apply to any type of loss,
right? Loss of a friend, a
family member, loss, of a job, a loss of
(20:09):
identity, loss of all
sorts of things. I mean, that's one thing. At
midlife especially we experience
a lot of losses and, and a lot of
losses to come. Right. I feel like just like so you can't really
prove prepare, you know, for
especially a tragic death,
but you can at least get
(20:32):
yourself into a place. I feel that. Okay,
when loss does come my way, then
I feel a little bit more equipped and.
And to know it's okay. Like, it's okay to grieve,
it's okay to be. I think for me, like when
my brother died, it was. I gave
myself the gift of grieving. I told myself I was like, you're grieving
(20:52):
this time, girl. Like, it was like, I'm giving
you this gift. It sounds so ironic,
but it was. And it was a gift to myself to just.
To just be. To just allow and
to accept and. And I even got to the
point just like you did too, with like the. The thoughts of
suicide. Like you just want to escape
(21:14):
your mind. You wanted to escape the pain and
escape and. And I was. Same thing. Like, not that I
was really going to do anything, but it was just like HM H. It would sure be
nice to just float away. Just
like, you know, like, oh, just like. Give me a
break from all of this.
I have some amazing news for you. My brand
(21:34):
new book, Women Waking up the Midlife
Manifesto for Passion, Purpose and Play
is officially available for pre order.
Woohoo.
It's an empowering guide to help you embrace
midlife with confidence, purpose and joy.
Through my personal stories and practical tools,
I'll walk you through my signature Freedom framework.
(21:55):
Seven steps to break free from limiting beliefs,
Rediscover your passions and create the life you've
always dreamed of. And when you pre
order now, you'll get over $500
in juicy bonuses delivered to
you instantly. You'll receive the
Women Waking Up Playbook, Guided Freedom
(22:16):
Meditations, a customizable digital
vision board, the map out your Midlife dreams
workshop. The list goes on. A, 200
voucher for my Freedom at Midlife program
and a Spotify playlist to fuel
your next chapter. It's everything you
need to reflect, reset and
rise before the book even arrives.
(22:40):
So go grab your copy and thank.
You for supporting the Midlife makeover show,
Women Waking up. And most importantly, thank you for
making yourself a priority. That's why I
do what I do every single day. You can
grab your bonuses and pre order the book by heading
to women wakingup.com
or wherever books are sold. Let's wake up.
(23:02):
Beautiful.
So yes, let's, let's talk about those four
steps, that I think will be so helpful for people no
matter what they're going through.
>> Lisa Boehm (23:13):
Absolutely. And let's call
Them pillars instead.
>> Wendy Valentine (23:17):
I like that.
>> Lisa Boehm (23:19):
You know, with grief, there is no one roadmap.
And what works for you? What works for me? Like we're all
unique snowflakes, but let's call them pillars.
And I'm gonna, I love things that
spell into words. So I'm going to use the word hope,
right? Because I think it's easier to remember.
>> Wendy Valentine (23:35):
Yeah.
>> Lisa Boehm (23:35):
And I think one of those pillars is healthy health and well
being. Self care. Self care. Self care.
Like when you think of the amount
of tears that you cry,
that's water. I mean, I think we're becoming
better at, you know, this whole notion of hydrating
ourselves. You know, that pile of snotty
(23:57):
kleenexes is water. You've got to
hydrate yourself. You've got to fuel your body.
I always felt better when I could
get outside, even if I just stood on my back step with
a cup of coffee, took a couple of breaths
of fresh air. My husband dragged me around the
block. You know, in the beginning. we're going to walk. No,
(24:18):
we're not. Yes, we are. Here we go. Always
felt better. Make sure you're sleeping. If
you're not sleeping at least six
hours a night, go talk to your family doctor.
You know, I think that's a conversation obviously
for anyone and their doctor, but
many people that I work with have
(24:40):
to take some kind of antidepressant or
sleep aid, at least for a short while.
>> Wendy Valentine (24:45):
Yes.
>> Lisa Boehm (24:46):
There is no gold star for quote
unquote getting through this without something. And I'm not
pushing the drugs. I'm just saying be
open to what you need. So that's number
one, health and well being. You gotta take care of yourself
in the most basic sense. Number two,
be open minded.
I truly believe that our mindset and our
(25:09):
beliefs affect everything we
do. If we tell ourselves,
I'm never going to feel better.
This is a life sentence of pure
hell. And that is the
way it feels in the beginning. Well, guess what?
You're not giving yourself permission
(25:29):
to heal, to move forward, or
to possibly find joy again. You have
slammed the door shut. So that's number two, open
minded. Number three
people, the right
people. Now, as you mentioned,
grief can be loss of relationship, like
(25:50):
divorce. It can be loss of job, loss of finances, loss
of health. There's a gazillion reasons why someone
might be grieving, but
you're going to find, unfortunately that
there's some people who don't get it.
>> Wendy Valentine (26:05):
Yes.
>> Lisa Boehm (26:06):
And sometimes that means having to
find new people. I cannot
say enough positive Words
about support groups, whether they're
online, whether they're in person,
therapists. I think everybody needs a therapist whether they're going
through grief or not. But find people
(26:26):
who validate your grief, who are
going to help your grief, and
maybe who are grieving the same thing as you in
a way that resonates with you. And what I mean
by that is, in this
world of grieving mothers, as an example, I
have dipped my toe in every possible
group and some of them are
(26:49):
way too dark for me.
I am somebody who needs hope. I want to feel
encouraged. I want to look at someone and say,
oh my gosh, she is walking this road
too. But I think I want to do my
grief more like her. So you got to find the people
that you feel suited to.
(27:09):
Okay? And sometimes that means you getting off your
butt and you going to find those people. Because if you just
wait there quietly in your house, it ain't gonna
happen.
>> Wendy Valentine (27:19):
Yeah.
>> Lisa Boehm (27:20):
And the, the fourth pillar is
E, which is explore.
what works for me may not work for
you. Be open again to
different things. The first support group I went to, I
met so many amazing women. I
learned about grief yoga. I didn't know about that
(27:40):
before. I learned about journaling and
the power of getting your thoughts onto
paper. I learned so many
things, so that's one piece of it.
But then when you get to that point where you're like,
what is joy? Again? I don't remember.
You know, to explore the things that just
(28:01):
light you up. What did you love to do
even when you were a kid? For me, it
was creativity. You know,
I blew off the dust on my sewing machine and I've
been upcycling denim. I love it.
I tried pottery. what things would you
like to try? You know that you've always thought about ballroom
(28:22):
dancing, but those are basically the four.
So hope it's health and
well being. It's open mindedness,
people and exploring.
>> Wendy Valentine (28:33):
I love that. And I love that it's actually not steps
that they are pillars. It's not something you have to, It's
those four, like guide guide posts, you know, like
those things that you like. Okay. It's not that
it has to be done in order or anything like that. It's
just four main things to keep in mind.
And I love what you said too, about the people that you
surround yourself with during that time. And
(28:56):
it's not that it's they're bad or
it's their fault or that they don't get it.
It's okay. But you'll. I think
once you kind of put it out there, you'll attract
the people that you'll need. And like you said too, sometimes
you have to go out there and get them, whether that be in support groups
or therapy or. Or anything. But I
(29:18):
mean, I had certain people even in my life too. Like all
the. No matter what the loss was in my life,
some people just weren't ones that I could reach out to. It didn't
make. It was nothing bad, it was
just. I had my go tos mostly in any.
But. And sometimes
you just need a sounding board. You don't want the,
(29:39):
you know, sometimes you don't need the solutions or
anything. You just want someone to sit and listen to
you gripe and moan and carry on,
all of that.
So speaking of like, it is.
It. It's challenging sometimes to know what
to say to someone while they're
grieving. So any advice
(30:00):
on that?
>> Lisa Boehm (30:03):
You know, again, I wish there was a handbook. I wish there was just
something you could pick up and you know, take, take
a phrase out of that. But I think first and
foremost, the cliches have got to
go. But helpful things are.
I am so sorry. I am so sorry
that this happened. Validation.
(30:23):
This sucks. This is so
unfair. I'm
so sorry
you're going through this. Y.
And if you don't know what. And was just like
(30:45):
not, not sure at all what to say.
And she just said, lisa, I'm afraid
to say anything. I don't want to hurt you.
I'm afraid to say the wrong thing.
And her daughter and Katie had gone to school
from kindergarten all the way through grade 12.
And she said, I'm never going to talk about Shay
(31:06):
in front of you. And I said,
erin, I said,
I want, I want to know about Shay.
But she was just so vulnerable and so
honest with me that she was scared and didn't want
to hurt me. And I thought that
is a great thing to say. Honestly, there are no
(31:26):
words. I, don't know what to say. I love
you and I'm so sorry. And, and
hugs. Hugs are always welcome.
>> Wendy Valentine (31:35):
Yes, I know. I knew I should have worn a,
waterproof mascara today from Sephora.
Of course. I was like, I know I'm gonna get
teared up even before even just preparing for
today's interview. And I was like, I always just kind of like
think about what, you know, I think about my guest
and their story and, and I was like
(31:55):
getting teared up just like, oh my. Drying my
hair today. I Was like, oh, my God. But. And that's
okay, right? Like, it's okay to cry.
It's okay to. To be sad and
sad for someone else's sadness. It's.
It's all okay. I mean, it's all part of being human.
I mean, it would. You know, it's. It's. That's. I
mean, it's not like all of life is rainbows and
(32:18):
sprinkles. It. It's just not.
We have those dark storms that come into our lives
and. And you do the best that you can.
And I'm sure.
I mean, were there some things about yourself that
surprised you during that time, whether positive
or negative, that were like. Oh. Like things that you
discovered about yourself that you had no idea?
>> Lisa Boehm (32:40):
Interestingly enough, even the night that
the police came to our home. So after the police
left, my parents came. I eventually sent
them home because it was getting late. Katie's
boyfriend and his family, of course, I worked with his dad.
They showed up at, like, midnight.
and I found myself, and I still find myself to be the
(33:00):
consoler. Here I
was the brand
new grieving mother. I was
consoling my mother. I was consoling
my. Sorry, Katie's
boyfriend's mom. I was consoling.
I was the consoler.
>> Wendy Valentine (33:20):
Yeah.
>> Lisa Boehm (33:22):
Yeah.
>> Wendy Valentine (33:23):
And here. And here you are. Now you're consoling the
whole world, which is awesome.
>> Lisa Boehm (33:28):
Yeah.
>> Wendy Valentine (33:29):
Taking it to a grand level. When did. When did
it pop into your mind? You're like, you know what? I'm gonna write
a book about this. I'm gonna, I'm gonna start
teaching this. When did that. When did that happen?
>> Lisa Boehm (33:41):
I don't know that I had a grand idea of
all the things. But let's talk about the book, because
that happened first about.
Oh, gosh, it was pretty early on, I'm going to say about two,
three months in. I had
this recurring thought, like, m.
I'm very visual person. So I had sat
(34:01):
through up to that point, I don't know how many dance,
rehearsals and dance
recitals and competitions. So
sometimes when I heard music, I would
choreograph stuff in my head. I don't know. Weird.
But I. I would see this choreographed
dance in my head of a very
(34:22):
small group of
lyrical dancers. So modern dance.
And they were walking towards each other
with these horrible heavy
suitcases. And I kept having this,
like, what. What is this?
And for whatever reason, I pulled up my laptop and.
(34:44):
And within minutes, minutes, I had this
powerful short story. And this short
story was about a man who Came to my door
and delivered this horrible,
ugly, beat up, disgusting, old,
heavy suitcase. And I
didn't know what to do with this thing. And I. I
(35:04):
mean, it was kind of stuck to me like glue. I had to carry it
everywhere. I just sleep with it. I had to, you know,
lug it down the street, all the things.
And I was curious about it, but it scared
me because it was so ugly. You know, One day I
unzipped the corner, but I didn't unzip it enough. So when I looked
inside, it was just as ugly and gross. And
(35:25):
one day I got brave and I unzipped
that sucker and I flipped it open. And inside was nothing
but love and beauty and meaning.
so a metaphor for grief. And
I had, magazines, I had,
authors, I had all kinds of people who wanted to pay money
for it, to publish it, to do all these things with it. And I said,
(35:45):
no, no, I think this thing has got bigger
purpose, but I don't know what it is yet. And then
shortly after that, I said to my husband, I think I want to write
a book. To which he said, about,
what? And I said, well, our
journey, Losing Katie. And he said,
who's gonna want to read a book about
that? And I said, I don't know,
(36:07):
but if I can help one person, I think this is something
I need to do. And that
short story
became roughly the outline of the
journey, like, suitcase journey, the journey
through grief. And, it
was very cathartic, very
(36:28):
healing to write it. I.
I was never a writer. Like, if you would have told me five years
before that you're going to write a book, I would have said, no,
I'm not. I'm going to scale Mount Everest first,
because it wasn't even on the radar, right?
But I wrote it, and it took me about a year, you know, with all the
edits and all that kind of stuff. And then
(36:49):
I thought, okay, yeah, okay, I did the book.
But, like, okay, we can all read a book. Books are
great. They're a great jumping off point. You can put lots of
content, lots of helpful stuff in there,
but grief is lifelong. So,
you know, so then that morphed into the grief
groups that I run. And then just, this
(37:10):
past December, on Katie's angel anniversary, I started
my own podcast. So, you know, it's just been
kind of wherever the universe, Katie, whoever it
is, you know, is kind of guiding me along. And where I see
a need is,
is the direction I go.
>> Wendy Valentine (37:27):
There's definitely lots of gifts and grief. And I
Think grieving really opens up creativity,
too. Opens those parts of you that you never
knew even existed.
>> Lisa Boehm (37:38):
If you're open to it.
>> Wendy Valentine (37:40):
Yeah. I'm so glad you were open to it.
>> Lisa Boehm (37:44):
You know, it. I really think that we have a choice.
>> Wendy Valentine (37:48):
Yep.
>> Lisa Boehm (37:48):
I cannot think of anything else
that compares to losing a child. The only thing I
can think of is, maybe if I was in
an accident and lost my right leg, and I would
have to learn to walk again, I might need to find
a new job again. My relationship would likely
change. There would be a lot of anger, a lot
(38:08):
of heavy feelings,
and I could stay in bed. I could maybe become an
alcoholic. I could become a really
miserable human being. And probably most people would
say, oh, well, this is what happens, right?
>> Wendy Valentine (38:23):
Yeah. M. Yeah.
>> Lisa Boehm (38:24):
Or I could make a choice and say, okay,
I got one leg. This sucks.
But what am I going to do about it? I'm going to find
a physiotherapist. I'm going to floor,
maybe, an artificial leg.
I'm going to start exercising again because I remember that that
helped me feel good before. I'm going to talk
(38:45):
with other people who've lost their right leg.
I'm going to. And anyway, I think we have a choice,
right? We can give up, or we can
rebuild and figure it out and move
forward.
>> Wendy Valentine (38:57):
Yeah, you're so right. I mean,
it is very cliche. Like, life is short
and. Yes. Right. Like, we look at Katie, we look at
Jason. They died so young. M.
They'd never even made it to midlife.
Right. They never even had the. The glory to be
able to make it to midlife. So if we're here and
(39:18):
we're listening, we're breathing, we are alive,
you have a choice to be able to do
something. And I think that's. That's such
a great gift. And. Yeah, I mean, you're
right. Like, you could. It's.
What is the, Robert Frost, you know, the
two roads diverged in a wood. And which one
are you going to take? Are you going to take the one of grief, like,
(39:40):
of staying there and, you know, not
doing anything about it? Or are you going to take a turn
and go, okay, I'm going to make the best of this and.
And. And really live out the rest of my life in a.
In a fulfilling way.
>> Lisa Boehm (39:55):
Right. And. And just a different spin on that. But, something that we've all
heard as well is we get to choose our hard
staying in grief. And the misery is hard.
>> Wendy Valentine (40:04):
It is.
>> Lisa Boehm (40:04):
It's awful figuring it out, figuring out the Path
forward. Figuring out those things that might
actually be helpful is hard.
>> Wendy Valentine (40:13):
Yeah.
>> Lisa Boehm (40:13):
You get to pick your herd.
>> Wendy Valentine (40:15):
And it's a roller coaster, right. I mean, you'll have those good days,
your bad days, good moments. Bad
moments. Like it, you're like all over the place.
And even just knowing that
is, it's okay. It was like
I was all over the place literally
within a 24 hour period. I was like,
(40:36):
you know, and you had to just kind of like
just stay on the roller coaster ride. Like, okay, where's this
going? Where's this going?
>> Lisa Boehm (40:43):
Yeah.
>> Wendy Valentine (40:44):
And, and learning from all of that, the highs and the
lows.
>> Lisa Boehm (40:48):
Definitely.
And I don't know what your experience is. I'd like to hear your experience.
I have said that
the roller coaster at the beginning of my journey was like these
Six Flags. I'm feeling nauseous.
I'm gonna throw up. make this thing stop.
Like hair blowing back, whiplash.
Horrible. Now my grief, I
(41:10):
would say most days is like a kitty roller
coaster. There's still the ups and downs and the dipsy
doodles, they're not nearly as intense.
And I have the confidence
knowing that I have gone through that
Six freaking Flags roller coaster.
I know that I'm going to be okay.
(41:31):
Right?
>> Wendy Valentine (41:32):
Yeah.
>> Lisa Boehm (41:33):
Even if my roller coaster goes off the rails,
I'm gonna be okay.
>> Wendy Valentine (41:38):
Yeah, exactly. Really. I
mean, I had a few guests on the show
not too long ago, just in the last month or two were
like, there was one, she, she had gotten polio at the
age of three and she was in a, you know, she's been in
a wheelchair and she took that,
that loss of, the loss of her legs
(41:59):
and she made the best of it. Like where she
could have been like, oh, woe was me.
you know, no, like, make
the best of it. Like this is. You get this one,
one life. Yeah.
>> Lisa Boehm (42:14):
Well, it's funny you should say that. I don't know what
everybody's beliefs are, but you know, in some
ways I've. I've thought grief makes you
think all the things, you know,
that our souls are here
living this human existence for the
purpose of soul growth.
And I remember thinking a couple times,
(42:36):
man, oh man, I am not coming
back to learn the child loss lesson
again. So.
>> Wendy Valentine (42:44):
Yeah, I thought that too. Like, you might as well
conquer this thing because I am not doing this ever again.
>> Lisa Boehm (42:50):
Yeah, I don't want to do this again.
>> Wendy Valentine (42:52):
Yeah, exactly. I know. And I love what you
said too about, what is it about? Energy cannot
be destroyed. Right. And I'VE thought the same
thing. Like, it's. Yeah. I mean, even when we go.
Right, it's like we just morph back into
the. The soup of energy that we're all swimming in.
>> Lisa Boehm (43:10):
Yeah. Yeah. I always say, you know, this thing here,
this. This is my rental, my body. Right.
>> Wendy Valentine (43:15):
It.
>> Lisa Boehm (43:15):
I just got it for a short time. Right. None of us
physically lives forever, but when I think about
who makes Lisa up, I don't think about
this shoulder or that hip or that big toe.
I think about this thing inside of me. Right. this
essence inside of me that you can't see. Nobody
can see yet. So. So you think, well, when the
(43:36):
outer shell quits working or whatever
happens, you know, that. That inner
peace. I don't know. I think that there's
much more to this life. Existence than we're not supposed
to do.
>> Wendy Valentine (43:48):
Yeah. And I. I think actually, death teaches you
a lot about that. Or it did for me. And
actually, my brother, he's, like, in
a. In a little jar in the back of the RV right now. You
know, I've been carrying him around. You know, eventually
I'll take him the. To the Camino de Santiago
in. In Portugal, and I. That's.
(44:08):
My plan is to sprinkle him there, but, I
mean, I've been carrying him around, and then I. Sometimes I'll look at him like,
this is my brother. You know, I'm like,
this is not him. Right. Like,
but it. You're so right. It's like there's this vehicle that
carries our soul through this lifetime, but
it's really not you. And that's why sometimes, you
(44:29):
know, I mean, it's all. It's good to look good and
feel good about yourself, but, like, you're so much more than
the damn wrinkles on your face or so who cares
if your ass is sagging a little bit? Like you, like,
let's get off of all of that and really
focus on the soul that is
so freaking powerful that can make
(44:49):
huge changes in the world.
Yeah.
Yeah. Well, someday I'll,
I'll have to document going on the Camino de
Santiago with my brother.
With my brother on my back
right now. He's. He's in the drawer and they.
(45:11):
Actually, the other day, I couldn't find him. I was like, where did I put my brother?
My God, I've lost him. Oh,
my gosh. Thank you so much, Lisa. This is
so hopeful. Hope H O P E
I love. I love that. I love the pillars, and
I love what you're doing, and you're and I know
Katie is so proud of you.
>> Lisa Boehm (45:31):
Oh, I appreciate that so much and thank
you. You know, as we were saying before, like, this is not a
sexy topic. This is not a popular topic.
And, you know, so thanks for being brave to,
to have, have the hard conversation
and just to be open and real about it. That's a gift that
you're giving many people.
>> Wendy Valentine (45:50):
Yeah, thank you. I'd rather talk about this than menopause.
So like that
to me, that's much easier than hormones.
>> Lisa Boehm (45:59):
That is a complicated thing. I am, there.
>> Wendy Valentine (46:03):
So where can we find you and also listen to your podcast
too?
>> Lisa Boehm (46:07):
Absolutely. best place to go to find
me just my website. All the links are there. So
that's www.grief support
for moms all sped
out.com. and my,
podcast is going to be going through a little bit of a makeover, but
right now you can call it or you can find it rather
at, the Angel Moms podcast.
>> Wendy Valentine (46:28):
Love it. So proud of you. Thank you, everyone.
Have a great day.
Did this podcast podcast inspire you? Challenge
you? Trigger you to make a change or spit out your coffee
laughing?
Good.
Then there are three ways you can thank me. Number
one, you can leave a written review of this podcast on
Apple iTunes. Number two, you can take a
(46:50):
screenshot of the episode and share it on the social
media and tag me Wendy Valentine.
Number three, share it with another midlifer that
needs a makeover. You know who I'm talking, talking about.
Thank you so much for listening to the show. Get out there
and be bold. Be free. Be you.