June 9, 2025 • 30 mins
Becky Bishop’s late diagnosis fuels powerful advocacy for neurodiversity and inclusive education.
Becky Bishop shares her inspiring journey from studying human geography to becoming a passionate advocate for inclusive education and neurodiversity. Diagnosed with ADHD later in life, Becky reflects on the validation and clarity this brought, alongside the grief of missed opportunities.
Our conversation highlights the importance of community support for neurodivergent individuals, featuring success stories from organizations like LDS that affirm identity and reduce isolation. Becky discusses the systemic barriers neurodivergent learners face, especially the unique challenges women with ADHD encounter due to underdiagnosis and gender bias.
She stresses that education is an equity issue, and personalized, neurodiversity-affirming approaches can lead to breakthroughs. The episode explores the intersection of neurodiversity and mental health, emphasizing the need to shift perspectives away from deficit-based views toward celebrating cognitive differences.
Becky closes with a call to action for greater inclusivity, early skill development, accommodations, and systemic change in both educational and professional settings to dismantle stigma and empower neurodivergent individuals.
Connect With Becky Bishop
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/becky-bishop-31858a283/
Learn, Develop, Succeed (LDS)
Website: https://ldsociety.ca/
Connect With Us
- Learn more about the Neurodiversity Voices Podcast: www.neurodiversityvoices.com
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Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Neurodiversity Voices Podcast
01:11 Becky's Journey: From Geography to Advocacy
05:01 The Impact of Late ADHD Diagnosis
07:56 Community and Support at LDS
09:31 Success Stories in Inclusive Education
12:12 Collaborations for Inclusive Education
12:50 Future Goals for LDS
14:05 Addressing Executive Functioning in Education
16:04 Challenges Faced by Neurodivergent Individuals
18:16 ADHD in Women: Underdiagnosis and Misdiagnosis
20:51 Misconceptions About Neurodiversity
22:10 Systemic Biases in Education
24:02 Intersection of Neurodiversity and Mental Health
26:56 The Importance of Community and Support
29:28 Conclusion and Call to Action
Disclaimer:
The content provided in this podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Paul Cruz (00:05):
Hello, and welcome to the Neurodiversity Voices
podcast. I'm your host, PaulCruz, and I'm thrilled to have
you join us on this journey ofexploration, advocacy, and
celebration of neurodiversity.
Tayaba Khan (00:18):
I'm Tayaba Khan, your volunteer co host.
Together, we'll have meaningfulconversations, share inspiring
stories, and challengemisconceptions about
neurodiversity.
Paul Cruz (00:28):
This podcast is for everyone, whether you're
neurodivergent yourself, aneducator, parent, or just
someone curious to learn more.Our goal is to amplify voices
through understanding and sparkchange in the way we view and
support neurodiversity.
Tayaba Khan (00:44):
We're so excited to have you with us as we celebrate
the beauty of diverse minds andwork towards a more inclusive
future.
Paul Cruz (00:52):
Becky Bishop is a passionate advocate for
inclusive education andneurodiversity whose journey has
been shaped by her personalexperiences and professional
insights. Transitioning from abackground in human geography to
championing the needs ofneurodivergent learners, Becky's
work is deeply informed by herlate ADHD diagnosis, which
(01:14):
transformed her perspective onboth her personal and
professional life. Through herinvolvement with LDS, she has
focused on addressing systemicbarriers, challenging
misconceptions aboutneurodiversity, and creating
equitable opportunities forlearners, particularly those
from marginalized communities.Becky's commitment to fostering
(01:37):
psychologically safe spaces andtailoring learning programs to
individual needs has led toimpactful success stories. While
her advocacy continues toinspire initiatives that support
neurodivergent individuals ineducation and beyond.
Can you share a pivotal momentin your journey that inspired
you to transition from studyinghuman geography to advocating
(02:01):
for inclusive education?
Becky Bishop (02:02):
Yeah, absolutely. It was actually a series of
pivotal moments that got me fromA to B. The first pivotal moment
for me was in my very firstgeography class at university,
where I became just fascinatedby how systems, spaces, and
environments really shape humanexperiences and how everything
(02:24):
and everyone is connected insome way. And then throughout
other courses, I becameespecially drawn to human
dimensions of wildlife, which isthe application of social
psychology to natural resourcemanagement. And that really
ignited my desire to advocatefor more balanced societies,
(02:45):
more so in environmentalconservation at that point.
And I did eventually complete mybachelor's degree and then
pursued a master's degree in thesame field. And then the second
pivotal moment happened when Ibecame a teaching assistant for
my graduate supervisor, and Ireally latched on to that
experience of sharinginformation and helping other
(03:06):
people to really discover themagic of geography. And then
throughout my master's degree, Ialso worked on a small scales
fisheries project, and there Icreated interdisciplinary
research practices, whichfurther opened my eyes to the
importance of just understandingmany different branches of
knowledge and how connection isso important to literally
(03:29):
everything. And I was alsoinvited to be a sessional
instructor for an outdoorrecreation management course,
and that's what really sparkedmy specific interest in adult
education, and that's when Iended up getting an education
degree in adult learning. Andthen the third shift came when I
moved to Vancouver almost eightyears ago now.
(03:50):
I started working at a differentlearning center, more focused on
children aged three to grade 12.But I could really see first
hand just how many kids werefalling through the cracks,
especially kids who hadundiagnosed or unacknowledged
learning differences. Andbecause I tend to look at things
in terms of connections, I couldsee the impact that it was
(04:13):
having on our adult populationas well. And I also became very
painfully aware of how expensivelearning support can be, and
just realized that being able toaccess education is really an
equity issue. So after leavingthat learning center, I found
LDS, which was really thepinnacle of everything I'd
(04:35):
really been working for.
So every step from my geographydegree to human dimensions of
wildlife, teaching, supportinglearners, I just I really
realized how deeply access andequity are woven into meaningful
education. The experience I'vehad here, especially at LDS, has
(04:56):
really solidified my commitmentto inclusive education.
Tayaba Khan (05:00):
Wow, that's amazing. So how has receiving a
late diagnosis of ADHD changedyour perspective on your
personal, your professionallife, and how has it shaped the
way you support neurodivergentlearners?
Becky Bishop (05:15):
Goodness. It was both very validating but also
very disorienting. All of asudden, so many pieces of my
life made sense. The way that Ithink, the way that my energy
fluctuates, challengingemotions, that feeling that I
was just too big for my body,but also why I related so much
(05:35):
to the neurodivergent learnersthat I worked with. Getting a
diagnosis really helped me toreframe past challenges with a
little more self compassion, butit also came with a big flood of
grief for what could have been.
I remember very distinctly inmaybe like a week after I got
that confirmation, I was on myway, like driving somewhere and
(05:57):
I had to pull over on Broadwayjust to like sob hysterically
and then just get back to what Iwas doing. And I still have some
of those moments, like reallylike moments of sadness and
anger, but also like I recognizethat I've been gifted with some
really magical moments ofvalidation and clarity, and it's
really helped me to betterunderstand who I am. And then in
(06:20):
terms of my professional life atADHD, it's really deepened my
empathy for neurodivergentlearners. Like I'm not just
supporting them from atheoretical standpoint, like I
actually understand what they'regoing through on a personal
level.
Paul Cruz (06:33):
How has finding a sense of community at LDS shaped
your work and helped you betterunderstand yourself,
particularly after your ADHDdiagnosis?
Becky Bishop (06:43):
Yeah. You bet. So LDS Learn Develop Succeed is a
BC based nonprofit charity. Ourmission is to support unique
learners in achieving theirlearning goals. We have programs
for learners age three to adult,and we work really hard to make
sure that our programs are asaccessible and low barrier as
(07:04):
possible.
We have such an incrediblecommunity of learners,
supporters, allies, and being apart of that was really integral
in me identifying myself asneurodivergent and then
eventually being diagnosed. Andworking with a team, like my
colleagues, who not onlyunderstand neurodivergence but
celebrate it too is really lifechanging. And that's
(07:27):
unfortunately very rare, butwe're working toward making it a
more common experience. And thenI guess the other really
important aspect of LDS as awhole is our neuro affirming
environment. So we're alwaystrying to learn from each other
and from our community about howbest to show up and build
systems where neurodivergentpeople can thrive instead of
(07:51):
believing that there's somethingwrong with them or they need to
be fixed.
Tayaba Khan (07:55):
So the community is a very important aspect. I mean,
I think anyone who is diagnosedneeds some kind of an
affirmation that I'm not alone.I'm not the only one suffering
from this. And it's maybe notthe right word, the use of the
word suffering, but maybe it'show the society makes you
(08:15):
perceive your diagnosis, thatthis is a suffering and, you
know, it's not. So I think thecommunity aspect is definitely
an important aspect.
I wonder if you could share anexample of how LDS has helped a
learner, perhaps a good ex youknow, if there's there's
somebody who stands out in yourmind and in this way, they help
the learner overcome some sortof a systemic barrier, could be
(08:38):
an economic, physical, or
Becky Bishop (08:40):
access to education. Is there a story you
can share with us? I mean, ingeneral, like our team works
tirelessly to increase access toeducation. We're all so
incredibly passionate. If youask anyone who works here, what
is the worst part of your job?
Most of them are going to sayit's that they can't do enough.
And the most significant supportthat we offer outside of our
(09:01):
programs, of course, isfinancial support. So all of our
programs are on a sliding scalebased on income, and we make
sure that everyone can accessprograms without financial
burden. We're not governmentfunded, so we work really hard
to get grants and funding andgenerous donations, big or
small, to ensure that we cancontinue that. But personally
for me, my favorite examples arethose where I can educate people
(09:25):
and then advocate for a learnerto receive the accommodations
and support that they need.
So just a couple of months ago,I had a learner who was writing
an entrance exam for auniversity, and that university
would not accept thepsychoeducational assessment
that they had when they werequite young and they needed an
(09:47):
updated assessment. So I endedup advocating and going into a
very extensive explanation ofwhy that policy is such a
significant barrier, because theprocess of getting a
psychoeducational assessmentcomes with several barriers. It
is next to impossible to dounless you have connections or a
(10:09):
lot of financial security to beable to do that. So, anyway, the
the learner was successful ingetting those accommodations
that they needed. So and I'mreally hoping that that
university will continue thatpractice as well.
Paul Cruz (10:22):
Becky, can you share a success story where tailoring
a learning program to alearner's unique profile led to
a breakthrough in theireducational journey?
Becky Bishop (10:32):
Yeah. Definitely. Mean, it's really rare that a
tailored program doesn't lead tosome kind of breakthrough
because a lot of learning andthe education system is very
narrowly focused. I'd have tosay my personal favorite success
comes from the very first adultlearner in our program. She's a
woman, she's in her latethirties, and she has cerebral
palsy.
(10:53):
So before coming to LDS, shecould not read, had very limited
writing abilities. And now abouttwo and a half, three years
later, she's readingindependently. She's writing
sentences, demonstrating so manynew skills that she didn't do
before. She's an absolutesuperstar and I'm always, yeah,
I'm always sharing her story.She's amazing.
Tayaba Khan (11:13):
So LDS is doing a lot of work as you just
mentioned and this is amazing.Just this example of a cerebral
palsy patient being able tocommunicate now. And I'm sure
she's having a blast. Must be sohappy. Can you share an example
of how LDS collaborates withother organizations or
institutions to promote thatinclusive education?
(11:36):
You gave a really good exampleof the student, the university
student, but how, how does itwork with other organizations
and help create apsychologically safe space for
neurodivergent learners?
Becky Bishop (11:47):
We collaborate with other organizations in many
different ways. We're alwaysopen to new partnerships. We
typically work with valuesaligned organizations, and that
might look like referringlearners back and forth. It
might look like joint advocacyefforts or other things like
workshop delivery or co leadingevents or programs and things
(12:10):
like that. And we include a lotof our community partners on our
website.
Paul Cruz (12:15):
What are the future goals or initiatives for LDS in
supporting neurodivergentindividuals? And how can society
better support them inprofessional and educational
settings?
Becky Bishop (12:27):
Yeah, we're always thinking about ways that we can
grow and improve. Me personally,I'm currently working on
expanding our youth and adultprograms in a few different
ways. So for our adult programsspecifically, we, have just
received funding for a newprogram called Skills for
Trades,
Paul Cruz (12:46):
and we'll
Becky Bishop (12:46):
be launching a press release hopefully in a
couple of weeks. But it's aprogram to support
neurodivergent individuals whoare trying to get into the
trades, which is reallyimportant to our province and to
our country right now. You canfind updates on our newsletter
and social media, etcetera. Butreally, I mean, are so many ways
that society can better supportneurodivergent individuals. The
(13:07):
list is endless.
I think the key is includingneurodivergent voices in
decision making and leadership.So people are the experts of
themselves, so why wouldn't youinclude them? It doesn't make
sense for a neurotypicalindividual to speak and make
decisions on behalf ofneurodivergent individuals. So I
(13:28):
think that is really key.
Tayaba Khan (13:30):
Yeah, interesting. So you said you're catering to
children as well as adults. Withadult learners, there come
specific challenges, especiallywhen you talk about executive
functioning. And I see that in alot of my students too who come
in as neurodiverse students. Sohow do you tailor support to
address these?
(13:50):
And what do you think are theskills that the school should
prioritize? Just just, you know,piggybacking on the last
question. But how do you thinkthe school should prioritize to
ease the post secondarytransition for these students?
Becky Bishop (14:03):
We actually offer an executive functioning
assessment called the Brief A,which gives a profile of an
individual's executivefunctioning skills. And for
anyone who doesn't know,executive functions are the
brain's management skills. Sobeing able to plan, prioritize,
focus, remember things,etcetera. And executive
functions actually startdeveloping in early childhood,
(14:25):
and they continue to developuntil your mid to late twenties.
It's a very lengthy process.
And what we commonly see aremixed executive functioning
profiles for adult learners,which makes sense because
neurodivergence does impactexecutive function development
and learning. One of the thingsI think people don't realize is
that those skills need to bepracticed, and they're usually
(14:50):
implicitly taught, which meansthat people typically learn them
by watching other people, socialmodeling, or through social
norms and expectations. So ifyou imagine telling a child,
Okay, go pack your bag forschool. If that child has strong
executive functioning skills,they're going to use their
working memory to think about,Okay, what day is it using
(15:13):
planning to check theirschedule? What books do I need?
What materials do I need? Andthey'll probably be able to
resist any distractions. Sothose steps weren't actually
explained, but it was expectedto happen. So if you have a
child who struggles withexecutive functioning, they
might not intuitively know howto break down that task. So what
ends up happening is they miss acouple of steps or they get
(15:36):
distracted and then they'relabeled as being lazy or
defiant, but they actually justdon't know what they need to do.
So in my opinion, executivefunction skills should be taught
explicitly from early childhoodonwards. And I think one of the
most important executivefunction skills is emotional
regulation, and that's becauselearning is most effective when
(15:58):
somebody is regulated. So Ithink that would be the most
effective.
Paul Cruz (16:02):
What challenges did you face before your ADHD
diagnosis, and how have youaddressed them since? How can
neurodivergent individualsadvocate for themselves in
environments that may not fullyunderstand their needs?
Becky Bishop (16:16):
So my biggest challenge continues to be a
challenge, and even a challengethat I think most neurodivergent
individuals face, is reallytrying to fit into those rigid
neurotypical systems. And thatoften involves a lot of masking.
And I mean, before my diagnosis,I did start exploring different
systems and ways to approachtasks wherever I felt like I had
(16:40):
the freedom to do so. But now inthe last couple of years, I've
been really taking morepurposeful steps to learning
more about myself and tryingdifferent ways of doing things
to see if something might beeasier or better for me to do.
And I think for most people,neurodivergent especially, it's
helpful to understand who youare and what you need, and then
(17:02):
you can learn to communicatethat to other people.
And that definitely takes a lotof it does take time. It takes a
lot of courage to do that, butthat time and effort is worth
the result.
Tayaba Khan (17:14):
Yeah. I get sometimes students are very
clear about what kind ofsupports they need. So
sometimes, you know, I mayrecord the lectures for them. I
may give them some extraresources. And just to make sure
that they are not highlighted inany way, I just give a blanket
statement.
Everybody is going to getrecorded lectures. Everybody is
(17:35):
going to get the resources sothat that particular student is
not highlighted in any way orsomebody else from outside who's
looking at that student, notassume that I'm favoring them.
So that's another reason whysometimes I feel some of these
adult students, at least whohave come into my class, try to
stay away and, don'tcommunicate. But it's
(17:57):
interesting. Another thing I'venoticed is that with women, this
can be a bigger challenge.
So what do you think ADHD inwomen why do you think it gets
undiagnosed or underdiagnosed ormisdiagnosed? And what do you
feel are the unique challengesthat women face in ADH?
Becky Bishop (18:14):
First, I just want to say how much I appreciate
your action of giving theaccommodation to everybody
because sometimes people don'tknow that they need the
accommodation. So when theythink like, oh, well, I can't
get that because I don't have adiagnosis or they don't want to
ask, having access to it canmake a huge difference. In terms
(18:35):
of ADHD in women, veryunfortunately, gender
discrimination has been andcontinues to be a really
significant issue in our societyin many aspects. Historically,
medical and scientific researchhas been heavily focused on
males. So a lot of theinformation that we have about
many different things, includingADHD, is cis male normative.
(18:58):
So for women and gender diverseindividuals, that plays a really
significant role in that underdiagnosis or misdiagnosis. So I
think when most people thinkabout ADHD, they imagine a
hyperactive boy. And thatdoesn't take into account other
symptoms that might be possible,like inattention or that
internal restlessness oremotional sensitivity. Because
(19:21):
society expects women to bequiet and nurturing, we're told,
Don't be so emotional. And weget a lot of judgment and feel a
lot of shame if we're notmaintaining this appearance of
being the perfect human.
And that ends up causing a lotof people to mask, to suppress
their natural tendencies inorder to fit in or feel safe.
(19:43):
And what ends up happening isthat women who have ADHD or
other brain based differencesare often misdiagnosed with
anxiety, depression, orborderline personality disorder.
While those conditions can cooccur, that root cause of ADHD
goes untreated. So when you'retreating the wrong thing, that
(20:03):
really has an impact too. Youthink something is just wrong
with you and you end up havinglower self esteem or chronic
stress.
There's an increased risk ofsubstance abuse, an increased
risk of abusive relationshipsand so on. Definitely very
challenging.
Tayaba Khan (20:22):
Yeah. And this interesting statement that
everybody says when it comes towomen, Oh, it's just your
hormones. It's just that time,you know? And it just completely
disregards, you know, anygenuine experience they are
having or any challenge they areexperiencing. Yeah.
Absolutely.
Paul Cruz (20:40):
Are the most common misconceptions about
neurodiversity you encounter andhow can educators and
institutions challenge thesemisconceptions effectively?
Becky Bishop (20:52):
I think the first and the biggest misconception is
that neurodiversity is adeficit. So neurodiversity is a
cognitive difference. It's not adysfunction. It impacts how we
interact with the world, how weconnect with people, etcetera.
And the second misconception isthat all neurodivergent
individuals are the same.
Tayaba Khan (21:11):
And I
Becky Bishop (21:12):
think that can really be challenged by shifting
from expecting everybody to fitin the same box to being a
little bit more curious. Soasking, how does this person
think about this? Or how do theyapproach this? What do they need
to thrive? And if you know,you're a neurotypical person,
you can think about situationsor things that come easy to you
(21:34):
and think like, okay, if I had adifferent way of thinking, what
might that be like in thissituation?
So just recognizing theprivilege of being a
neurotypical person in a worldthat is meant for neurotypical
people.
Tayaba Khan (21:48):
Amazing. So the Institute where I teach, we
actually help adults get readyfor the market And the idea
being that they will completetheir certifications and go out
into the world and startworking. So this is very
relevant to me when when I'masking as an educator how
systemic biases may impact theeducational and professional
(22:10):
opportunities for neurodivergentindividuals, and especially
people of color? Because I alsoget a lot of students from
different parts of the world.And what steps do you think
educators can take to helpcreate more equity in all of
this?
Becky Bishop (22:24):
I mean, so first I want to say that I am speaking
as a white individual. I havedone a lot of research and I
continue to try to educatemyself as best as possible. And
what I have learned is thatneurodivergent people of color
often experience very layeredforms of discrimination in how
they are perceived or supportedopportunities that they have
(22:47):
access to. When we think abouthow people of color are likely
to be perceived in society, itusually looks like being defiant
or aggressive, and they tend toface harsher consequences for
those behaviors that are linkedto neurodivergence. They end up
being heavily misunderstood andover disciplined.
And like I mentioned with themale normative research, we see
(23:10):
a lot of white normativeresearch. So individuals of
color experience under diagnosisor misdiagnosis because of that
bias in the diagnostic process.There's also very much a lack of
culturally informed practices,which can be very challenging. I
think it's essential that weapproach inclusion through more
of an intersectional lens andlook at how race, disability,
(23:35):
gender, culture, and identity,all of those things, how they
interact with how we designequitable opportunities and
processes. Again, that reallystarts with building authentic
relationships and validatingthose lived experiences and just
making sure that we're includingthose people in shaping policies
and decisions.
In educational practice,specifically challenging biases
(23:56):
and reflecting on how classroomnorms that we follow could be
rooted in those whitecisgendered neurotypical norms
and making sure that we aredoing what we can to challenge
that and to change that.
Tayaba Khan (24:10):
So it also depends on the institution, Right? I
mean, the institution has to beopen to implementing and giving
the supports that are needed.Right? So, Paul, you may
remember we were having thisconversation yesterday, and I I
was telling Paul about thisinteresting case that came my
way. I had a student who was inmy class and she gives the first
exam and she doesn't do reallywell in that exam.
(24:33):
Right? And anyhow, she continuescoming into my classes, but just
before her second exam, becausethis was a two part, you know,
two exam based course. So I geta request on accommodations for
her. And I'm I'm very confused.I'm like, well, this student
gave this exam without theaccommodations.
Now why do we need theaccommodations? So it turns out
(24:55):
because of the exam she gave,she realized she has some
probable challenges, and thenshe went ahead and got
diagnosed. Right? So sometimes Ifeel and and, again, like, to
your point, people fromdifferent cultures, different
backgrounds, differentnationalities, nationalities,
different religions, differenttaboos in their society may not
(25:15):
feel comfortable approaching,especially in a foreign country,
to say to a teacher, by the way,I think I have this. I'm not
sure.
Because, again, the instructormight say, oh, you're making
excuses, like, to exactly toyour point, but the student may
feel devalued or unheard. Sothere's so many things that come
(25:35):
into play, right?
Becky Bishop (25:37):
Definitely. Something that really sticks out
for me after hearing you saythat, I delivered a workshop for
some post secondary instructors.And one of the things that I
typically recommend, like youdo, is to give the accommodation
generally. So if you're going togive extra time on a test, give
everybody that extra time on atest. And one of the instructors
(26:00):
said, Okay, but that doesn'tseem fair because now people who
don't need that have anadvantage.
And I said, Okay, but why do yougive a timed test anyway? At the
end of the day, are they reallygoing to be doing these things
under timed pressure? I mean, insome instances, yes, but if
you're teaching something likeliterature, like, is somebody
(26:22):
really going to need to do thatunder a time pressure? So what
difference does it make ifeverybody has that extra time?
And I think that's reallyimportant to recognize is that
some of the systems we have inplace don't actually make sense
to the real world anyway.
So why wouldn't we give peopleaccommodations? And, you know,
we hear like, Oh, people aretaking advantage, but that
(26:43):
percentage is so, so small. So,so small.
Paul Cruz (26:46):
How does neurodiversity intersect with
mental health challenges, andwhat unique needs arise from
this intersection? How cansociety reduce the stigma around
both?
Becky Bishop (26:57):
It's important to note that neurodivergence is not
a mental health challenge, butneurodivergent individuals are
two to three times more likelyto experience mental health
challenges than neurotypicalpeople. And the reason for that
is because they are facing somany barriers to be able to
(27:21):
participate in society in a waythat makes sense for them. So
they're very much intertwinedwith each other. I could
probably go on and on for solong about this. I do have a
community workshop on ourwebsite that's called
Neurodiversity and MentalHealth, which talks all about
this.
Really reducing the stigmaaround both just starts by
(27:42):
talking about it. So not havingthat pressure to mask or fit in.
The solution isn't just like, goto therapy, more therapy, more
therapy. Therapy can help. Butit's really about systemic
change.
So reducing stigma meansnormalizing differences,
offering real accommodations.
Paul Cruz (28:04):
Eckie Bishop's journey exemplifies the
transformative power ofadvocacy, community, and
understanding in creatingequitable opportunities for
neurodivergent individuals. Herwork with LDS continues to
challenge systemic barriers,foster inclusive education, and
inspire meaningful change. Bysharing her personal experiences
(28:27):
and professional insights, Beckyhighlights the importance of
addressing misconceptions,promoting psychological safety,
and tailoring support toindividual needs. As society
progresses toward greaterinclusivity, Becky's story
serves as a reminder of theimpact that empathy, education
and collaboration can have inempowering neurodivergent
(28:49):
learners and building a moreequitable future for all.
Connect with Becky Bishop orlearn more about her work, reach
out through LGS or follow heradvocacy journey on social media
and professional platforms.
We will provide all of them inour show notes. That's all for
today's episode of theneurodiversity voices cast.
(29:11):
Thank you so much for tuning inand being part of this important
conversation.
Tayaba Khan (29:15):
We hope you found today's discussion insightful
and inspiring. Remember, everyvoice matters, and together, we
can create a more inclusive andunderstanding world for
neurodivergent individuals. Youlike
Paul Cruz (29:27):
to enjoy this episode, don't forget to
subscribe, leave a review, andshare it with your friends,
family, or anyone who mightbenefit from these
conversations.
Tayaba Khan (29:37):
If you have any questions, ideas, or stories
you'd like to share, feel freeto reach out to us. We'd love to
hear from you.
Paul Cruz (29:44):
Until next time, take care, stay curious, and keep
celebrating the beauty ofDiverse Mind.
Tayaba Khan (29:50):
Thanks for listening to the Neurodiversity
Voices podcast.
Hello, and welcome to the Neurodiversity Voices
podcast. I'm your host, PaulCruz, and I'm thrilled to have
you join us on this journey ofexploration, advocacy, and
celebration of neurodiversity.
Tayaba Khan (00:18):
I'm Tayaba Khan, your volunteer co host.
Together, we'll have meaningfulconversations, share inspiring
stories, and challengemisconceptions about
neurodiversity.
Paul Cruz (00:28):
This podcast is for everyone, whether you're
neurodivergent yourself, aneducator, parent, or just
someone curious to learn more.Our goal is to amplify voices
through understanding and sparkchange in the way we view and
support neurodiversity.
Tayaba Khan (00:44):
We're so excited to have you with us as we celebrate
the beauty of diverse minds andwork towards a more inclusive
future.
Paul Cruz (00:52):
Becky Bishop is a passionate advocate for
inclusive education andneurodiversity whose journey has
been shaped by her personalexperiences and professional
insights. Transitioning from abackground in human geography to
championing the needs ofneurodivergent learners, Becky's
work is deeply informed by herlate ADHD diagnosis, which
(01:14):
transformed her perspective onboth her personal and
professional life. Through herinvolvement with LDS, she has
focused on addressing systemicbarriers, challenging
misconceptions aboutneurodiversity, and creating
equitable opportunities forlearners, particularly those
from marginalized communities.Becky's commitment to fostering
(01:37):
psychologically safe spaces andtailoring learning programs to
individual needs has led toimpactful success stories. While
her advocacy continues toinspire initiatives that support
neurodivergent individuals ineducation and beyond.
Can you share a pivotal momentin your journey that inspired
you to transition from studyinghuman geography to advocating
(02:01):
for inclusive education?
Becky Bishop (02:02):
Yeah, absolutely. It was actually a series of
pivotal moments that got me fromA to B. The first pivotal moment
for me was in my very firstgeography class at university,
where I became just fascinatedby how systems, spaces, and
environments really shape humanexperiences and how everything
(02:24):
and everyone is connected insome way. And then throughout
other courses, I becameespecially drawn to human
dimensions of wildlife, which isthe application of social
psychology to natural resourcemanagement. And that really
ignited my desire to advocatefor more balanced societies,
(02:45):
more so in environmentalconservation at that point.
And I did eventually complete mybachelor's degree and then
pursued a master's degree in thesame field. And then the second
pivotal moment happened when Ibecame a teaching assistant for
my graduate supervisor, and Ireally latched on to that
experience of sharinginformation and helping other
(03:06):
people to really discover themagic of geography. And then
throughout my master's degree, Ialso worked on a small scales
fisheries project, and there Icreated interdisciplinary
research practices, whichfurther opened my eyes to the
importance of just understandingmany different branches of
knowledge and how connection isso important to literally
(03:29):
everything. And I was alsoinvited to be a sessional
instructor for an outdoorrecreation management course,
and that's what really sparkedmy specific interest in adult
education, and that's when Iended up getting an education
degree in adult learning. Andthen the third shift came when I
moved to Vancouver almost eightyears ago now.
(03:50):
I started working at a differentlearning center, more focused on
children aged three to grade 12.But I could really see first
hand just how many kids werefalling through the cracks,
especially kids who hadundiagnosed or unacknowledged
learning differences. Andbecause I tend to look at things
in terms of connections, I couldsee the impact that it was
(04:13):
having on our adult populationas well. And I also became very
painfully aware of how expensivelearning support can be, and
just realized that being able toaccess education is really an
equity issue. So after leavingthat learning center, I found
LDS, which was really thepinnacle of everything I'd
(04:35):
really been working for.
So every step from my geographydegree to human dimensions of
wildlife, teaching, supportinglearners, I just I really
realized how deeply access andequity are woven into meaningful
education. The experience I'vehad here, especially at LDS, has
(04:56):
really solidified my commitmentto inclusive education.
Tayaba Khan (05:00):
Wow, that's amazing. So how has receiving a
late diagnosis of ADHD changedyour perspective on your
personal, your professionallife, and how has it shaped the
way you support neurodivergentlearners?
Becky Bishop (05:15):
Goodness. It was both very validating but also
very disorienting. All of asudden, so many pieces of my
life made sense. The way that Ithink, the way that my energy
fluctuates, challengingemotions, that feeling that I
was just too big for my body,but also why I related so much
(05:35):
to the neurodivergent learnersthat I worked with. Getting a
diagnosis really helped me toreframe past challenges with a
little more self compassion, butit also came with a big flood of
grief for what could have been.
I remember very distinctly inmaybe like a week after I got
that confirmation, I was on myway, like driving somewhere and
(05:57):
I had to pull over on Broadwayjust to like sob hysterically
and then just get back to what Iwas doing. And I still have some
of those moments, like reallylike moments of sadness and
anger, but also like I recognizethat I've been gifted with some
really magical moments ofvalidation and clarity, and it's
really helped me to betterunderstand who I am. And then in
(06:20):
terms of my professional life atADHD, it's really deepened my
empathy for neurodivergentlearners. Like I'm not just
supporting them from atheoretical standpoint, like I
actually understand what they'regoing through on a personal
level.
Paul Cruz (06:33):
How has finding a sense of community at LDS shaped
your work and helped you betterunderstand yourself,
particularly after your ADHDdiagnosis?
Becky Bishop (06:43):
Yeah. You bet. So LDS Learn Develop Succeed is a
BC based nonprofit charity. Ourmission is to support unique
learners in achieving theirlearning goals. We have programs
for learners age three to adult,and we work really hard to make
sure that our programs are asaccessible and low barrier as
(07:04):
possible.
We have such an incrediblecommunity of learners,
supporters, allies, and being apart of that was really integral
in me identifying myself asneurodivergent and then
eventually being diagnosed. Andworking with a team, like my
colleagues, who not onlyunderstand neurodivergence but
celebrate it too is really lifechanging. And that's
(07:27):
unfortunately very rare, butwe're working toward making it a
more common experience. And thenI guess the other really
important aspect of LDS as awhole is our neuro affirming
environment. So we're alwaystrying to learn from each other
and from our community about howbest to show up and build
systems where neurodivergentpeople can thrive instead of
(07:51):
believing that there's somethingwrong with them or they need to
be fixed.
Tayaba Khan (07:55):
So the community is a very important aspect. I mean,
I think anyone who is diagnosedneeds some kind of an
affirmation that I'm not alone.I'm not the only one suffering
from this. And it's maybe notthe right word, the use of the
word suffering, but maybe it'show the society makes you
(08:15):
perceive your diagnosis, thatthis is a suffering and, you
know, it's not. So I think thecommunity aspect is definitely
an important aspect.
I wonder if you could share anexample of how LDS has helped a
learner, perhaps a good ex youknow, if there's there's
somebody who stands out in yourmind and in this way, they help
the learner overcome some sortof a systemic barrier, could be
(08:38):
an economic, physical, or
Becky Bishop (08:40):
access to education. Is there a story you
can share with us? I mean, ingeneral, like our team works
tirelessly to increase access toeducation. We're all so
incredibly passionate. If youask anyone who works here, what
is the worst part of your job?
Most of them are going to sayit's that they can't do enough.
And the most significant supportthat we offer outside of our
(09:01):
programs, of course, isfinancial support. So all of our
programs are on a sliding scalebased on income, and we make
sure that everyone can accessprograms without financial
burden. We're not governmentfunded, so we work really hard
to get grants and funding andgenerous donations, big or
small, to ensure that we cancontinue that. But personally
for me, my favorite examples arethose where I can educate people
(09:25):
and then advocate for a learnerto receive the accommodations
and support that they need.
So just a couple of months ago,I had a learner who was writing
an entrance exam for auniversity, and that university
would not accept thepsychoeducational assessment
that they had when they werequite young and they needed an
(09:47):
updated assessment. So I endedup advocating and going into a
very extensive explanation ofwhy that policy is such a
significant barrier, because theprocess of getting a
psychoeducational assessmentcomes with several barriers. It
is next to impossible to dounless you have connections or a
(10:09):
lot of financial security to beable to do that. So, anyway, the
the learner was successful ingetting those accommodations
that they needed. So and I'mreally hoping that that
university will continue thatpractice as well.
Paul Cruz (10:22):
Becky, can you share a success story where tailoring
a learning program to alearner's unique profile led to
a breakthrough in theireducational journey?
Becky Bishop (10:32):
Yeah. Definitely. Mean, it's really rare that a
tailored program doesn't lead tosome kind of breakthrough
because a lot of learning andthe education system is very
narrowly focused. I'd have tosay my personal favorite success
comes from the very first adultlearner in our program. She's a
woman, she's in her latethirties, and she has cerebral
palsy.
(10:53):
So before coming to LDS, shecould not read, had very limited
writing abilities. And now abouttwo and a half, three years
later, she's readingindependently. She's writing
sentences, demonstrating so manynew skills that she didn't do
before. She's an absolutesuperstar and I'm always, yeah,
I'm always sharing her story.She's amazing.
Tayaba Khan (11:13):
So LDS is doing a lot of work as you just
mentioned and this is amazing.Just this example of a cerebral
palsy patient being able tocommunicate now. And I'm sure
she's having a blast. Must be sohappy. Can you share an example
of how LDS collaborates withother organizations or
institutions to promote thatinclusive education?
(11:36):
You gave a really good exampleof the student, the university
student, but how, how does itwork with other organizations
and help create apsychologically safe space for
neurodivergent learners?
Becky Bishop (11:47):
We collaborate with other organizations in many
different ways. We're alwaysopen to new partnerships. We
typically work with valuesaligned organizations, and that
might look like referringlearners back and forth. It
might look like joint advocacyefforts or other things like
workshop delivery or co leadingevents or programs and things
(12:10):
like that. And we include a lotof our community partners on our
website.
Paul Cruz (12:15):
What are the future goals or initiatives for LDS in
supporting neurodivergentindividuals? And how can society
better support them inprofessional and educational
settings?
Becky Bishop (12:27):
Yeah, we're always thinking about ways that we can
grow and improve. Me personally,I'm currently working on
expanding our youth and adultprograms in a few different
ways. So for our adult programsspecifically, we, have just
received funding for a newprogram called Skills for
Trades,
Paul Cruz (12:46):
and we'll
Becky Bishop (12:46):
be launching a press release hopefully in a
couple of weeks. But it's aprogram to support
neurodivergent individuals whoare trying to get into the
trades, which is reallyimportant to our province and to
our country right now. You canfind updates on our newsletter
and social media, etcetera. Butreally, I mean, are so many ways
that society can better supportneurodivergent individuals. The
(13:07):
list is endless.
I think the key is includingneurodivergent voices in
decision making and leadership.So people are the experts of
themselves, so why wouldn't youinclude them? It doesn't make
sense for a neurotypicalindividual to speak and make
decisions on behalf ofneurodivergent individuals. So I
(13:28):
think that is really key.
Tayaba Khan (13:30):
Yeah, interesting. So you said you're catering to
children as well as adults. Withadult learners, there come
specific challenges, especiallywhen you talk about executive
functioning. And I see that in alot of my students too who come
in as neurodiverse students. Sohow do you tailor support to
address these?
(13:50):
And what do you think are theskills that the school should
prioritize? Just just, you know,piggybacking on the last
question. But how do you thinkthe school should prioritize to
ease the post secondarytransition for these students?
Becky Bishop (14:03):
We actually offer an executive functioning
assessment called the Brief A,which gives a profile of an
individual's executivefunctioning skills. And for
anyone who doesn't know,executive functions are the
brain's management skills. Sobeing able to plan, prioritize,
focus, remember things,etcetera. And executive
functions actually startdeveloping in early childhood,
(14:25):
and they continue to developuntil your mid to late twenties.
It's a very lengthy process.
And what we commonly see aremixed executive functioning
profiles for adult learners,which makes sense because
neurodivergence does impactexecutive function development
and learning. One of the thingsI think people don't realize is
that those skills need to bepracticed, and they're usually
(14:50):
implicitly taught, which meansthat people typically learn them
by watching other people, socialmodeling, or through social
norms and expectations. So ifyou imagine telling a child,
Okay, go pack your bag forschool. If that child has strong
executive functioning skills,they're going to use their
working memory to think about,Okay, what day is it using
(15:13):
planning to check theirschedule? What books do I need?
What materials do I need? Andthey'll probably be able to
resist any distractions. Sothose steps weren't actually
explained, but it was expectedto happen. So if you have a
child who struggles withexecutive functioning, they
might not intuitively know howto break down that task. So what
ends up happening is they miss acouple of steps or they get
(15:36):
distracted and then they'relabeled as being lazy or
defiant, but they actually justdon't know what they need to do.
So in my opinion, executivefunction skills should be taught
explicitly from early childhoodonwards. And I think one of the
most important executivefunction skills is emotional
regulation, and that's becauselearning is most effective when
(15:58):
somebody is regulated. So Ithink that would be the most
effective.
Paul Cruz (16:02):
What challenges did you face before your ADHD
diagnosis, and how have youaddressed them since? How can
neurodivergent individualsadvocate for themselves in
environments that may not fullyunderstand their needs?
Becky Bishop (16:16):
So my biggest challenge continues to be a
challenge, and even a challengethat I think most neurodivergent
individuals face, is reallytrying to fit into those rigid
neurotypical systems. And thatoften involves a lot of masking.
And I mean, before my diagnosis,I did start exploring different
systems and ways to approachtasks wherever I felt like I had
(16:40):
the freedom to do so. But now inthe last couple of years, I've
been really taking morepurposeful steps to learning
more about myself and tryingdifferent ways of doing things
to see if something might beeasier or better for me to do.
And I think for most people,neurodivergent especially, it's
helpful to understand who youare and what you need, and then
(17:02):
you can learn to communicatethat to other people.
And that definitely takes a lotof it does take time. It takes a
lot of courage to do that, butthat time and effort is worth
the result.
Tayaba Khan (17:14):
Yeah. I get sometimes students are very
clear about what kind ofsupports they need. So
sometimes, you know, I mayrecord the lectures for them. I
may give them some extraresources. And just to make sure
that they are not highlighted inany way, I just give a blanket
statement.
Everybody is going to getrecorded lectures. Everybody is
(17:35):
going to get the resources sothat that particular student is
not highlighted in any way orsomebody else from outside who's
looking at that student, notassume that I'm favoring them.
So that's another reason whysometimes I feel some of these
adult students, at least whohave come into my class, try to
stay away and, don'tcommunicate. But it's
(17:57):
interesting. Another thing I'venoticed is that with women, this
can be a bigger challenge.
So what do you think ADHD inwomen why do you think it gets
undiagnosed or underdiagnosed ormisdiagnosed? And what do you
feel are the unique challengesthat women face in ADH?
Becky Bishop (18:14):
First, I just want to say how much I appreciate
your action of giving theaccommodation to everybody
because sometimes people don'tknow that they need the
accommodation. So when theythink like, oh, well, I can't
get that because I don't have adiagnosis or they don't want to
ask, having access to it canmake a huge difference. In terms
(18:35):
of ADHD in women, veryunfortunately, gender
discrimination has been andcontinues to be a really
significant issue in our societyin many aspects. Historically,
medical and scientific researchhas been heavily focused on
males. So a lot of theinformation that we have about
many different things, includingADHD, is cis male normative.
(18:58):
So for women and gender diverseindividuals, that plays a really
significant role in that underdiagnosis or misdiagnosis. So I
think when most people thinkabout ADHD, they imagine a
hyperactive boy. And thatdoesn't take into account other
symptoms that might be possible,like inattention or that
internal restlessness oremotional sensitivity. Because
(19:21):
society expects women to bequiet and nurturing, we're told,
Don't be so emotional. And weget a lot of judgment and feel a
lot of shame if we're notmaintaining this appearance of
being the perfect human.
And that ends up causing a lotof people to mask, to suppress
their natural tendencies inorder to fit in or feel safe.
(19:43):
And what ends up happening isthat women who have ADHD or
other brain based differencesare often misdiagnosed with
anxiety, depression, orborderline personality disorder.
While those conditions can cooccur, that root cause of ADHD
goes untreated. So when you'retreating the wrong thing, that
(20:03):
really has an impact too. Youthink something is just wrong
with you and you end up havinglower self esteem or chronic
stress.
There's an increased risk ofsubstance abuse, an increased
risk of abusive relationshipsand so on. Definitely very
challenging.
Tayaba Khan (20:22):
Yeah. And this interesting statement that
everybody says when it comes towomen, Oh, it's just your
hormones. It's just that time,you know? And it just completely
disregards, you know, anygenuine experience they are
having or any challenge they areexperiencing. Yeah.
Absolutely.
Paul Cruz (20:40):
Are the most common misconceptions about
neurodiversity you encounter andhow can educators and
institutions challenge thesemisconceptions effectively?
Becky Bishop (20:52):
I think the first and the biggest misconception is
that neurodiversity is adeficit. So neurodiversity is a
cognitive difference. It's not adysfunction. It impacts how we
interact with the world, how weconnect with people, etcetera.
And the second misconception isthat all neurodivergent
individuals are the same.
Tayaba Khan (21:11):
And I
Becky Bishop (21:12):
think that can really be challenged by shifting
from expecting everybody to fitin the same box to being a
little bit more curious. Soasking, how does this person
think about this? Or how do theyapproach this? What do they need
to thrive? And if you know,you're a neurotypical person,
you can think about situationsor things that come easy to you
(21:34):
and think like, okay, if I had adifferent way of thinking, what
might that be like in thissituation?
So just recognizing theprivilege of being a
neurotypical person in a worldthat is meant for neurotypical
people.
Tayaba Khan (21:48):
Amazing. So the Institute where I teach, we
actually help adults get readyfor the market And the idea
being that they will completetheir certifications and go out
into the world and startworking. So this is very
relevant to me when when I'masking as an educator how
systemic biases may impact theeducational and professional
(22:10):
opportunities for neurodivergentindividuals, and especially
people of color? Because I alsoget a lot of students from
different parts of the world.And what steps do you think
educators can take to helpcreate more equity in all of
this?
Becky Bishop (22:24):
I mean, so first I want to say that I am speaking
as a white individual. I havedone a lot of research and I
continue to try to educatemyself as best as possible. And
what I have learned is thatneurodivergent people of color
often experience very layeredforms of discrimination in how
they are perceived or supportedopportunities that they have
(22:47):
access to. When we think abouthow people of color are likely
to be perceived in society, itusually looks like being defiant
or aggressive, and they tend toface harsher consequences for
those behaviors that are linkedto neurodivergence. They end up
being heavily misunderstood andover disciplined.
And like I mentioned with themale normative research, we see
(23:10):
a lot of white normativeresearch. So individuals of
color experience under diagnosisor misdiagnosis because of that
bias in the diagnostic process.There's also very much a lack of
culturally informed practices,which can be very challenging. I
think it's essential that weapproach inclusion through more
of an intersectional lens andlook at how race, disability,
(23:35):
gender, culture, and identity,all of those things, how they
interact with how we designequitable opportunities and
processes. Again, that reallystarts with building authentic
relationships and validatingthose lived experiences and just
making sure that we're includingthose people in shaping policies
and decisions.
In educational practice,specifically challenging biases
(23:56):
and reflecting on how classroomnorms that we follow could be
rooted in those whitecisgendered neurotypical norms
and making sure that we aredoing what we can to challenge
that and to change that.
Tayaba Khan (24:10):
So it also depends on the institution, Right? I
mean, the institution has to beopen to implementing and giving
the supports that are needed.Right? So, Paul, you may
remember we were having thisconversation yesterday, and I I
was telling Paul about thisinteresting case that came my
way. I had a student who was inmy class and she gives the first
exam and she doesn't do reallywell in that exam.
(24:33):
Right? And anyhow, she continuescoming into my classes, but just
before her second exam, becausethis was a two part, you know,
two exam based course. So I geta request on accommodations for
her. And I'm I'm very confused.I'm like, well, this student
gave this exam without theaccommodations.
Now why do we need theaccommodations? So it turns out
(24:55):
because of the exam she gave,she realized she has some
probable challenges, and thenshe went ahead and got
diagnosed. Right? So sometimes Ifeel and and, again, like, to
your point, people fromdifferent cultures, different
backgrounds, differentnationalities, nationalities,
different religions, differenttaboos in their society may not
(25:15):
feel comfortable approaching,especially in a foreign country,
to say to a teacher, by the way,I think I have this. I'm not
sure.
Because, again, the instructormight say, oh, you're making
excuses, like, to exactly toyour point, but the student may
feel devalued or unheard. Sothere's so many things that come
(25:35):
into play, right?
Becky Bishop (25:37):
Definitely. Something that really sticks out
for me after hearing you saythat, I delivered a workshop for
some post secondary instructors.And one of the things that I
typically recommend, like youdo, is to give the accommodation
generally. So if you're going togive extra time on a test, give
everybody that extra time on atest. And one of the instructors
(26:00):
said, Okay, but that doesn'tseem fair because now people who
don't need that have anadvantage.
And I said, Okay, but why do yougive a timed test anyway? At the
end of the day, are they reallygoing to be doing these things
under timed pressure? I mean, insome instances, yes, but if
you're teaching something likeliterature, like, is somebody
(26:22):
really going to need to do thatunder a time pressure? So what
difference does it make ifeverybody has that extra time?
And I think that's reallyimportant to recognize is that
some of the systems we have inplace don't actually make sense
to the real world anyway.
So why wouldn't we give peopleaccommodations? And, you know,
we hear like, Oh, people aretaking advantage, but that
(26:43):
percentage is so, so small. So,so small.
Paul Cruz (26:46):
How does neurodiversity intersect with
mental health challenges, andwhat unique needs arise from
this intersection? How cansociety reduce the stigma around
both?
Becky Bishop (26:57):
It's important to note that neurodivergence is not
a mental health challenge, butneurodivergent individuals are
two to three times more likelyto experience mental health
challenges than neurotypicalpeople. And the reason for that
is because they are facing somany barriers to be able to
(27:21):
participate in society in a waythat makes sense for them. So
they're very much intertwinedwith each other. I could
probably go on and on for solong about this. I do have a
community workshop on ourwebsite that's called
Neurodiversity and MentalHealth, which talks all about
this.
Really reducing the stigmaaround both just starts by
(27:42):
talking about it. So not havingthat pressure to mask or fit in.
The solution isn't just like, goto therapy, more therapy, more
therapy. Therapy can help. Butit's really about systemic
change.
So reducing stigma meansnormalizing differences,
offering real accommodations.
Paul Cruz (28:04):
Eckie Bishop's journey exemplifies the
transformative power ofadvocacy, community, and
understanding in creatingequitable opportunities for
neurodivergent individuals. Herwork with LDS continues to
challenge systemic barriers,foster inclusive education, and
inspire meaningful change. Bysharing her personal experiences
(28:27):
and professional insights, Beckyhighlights the importance of
addressing misconceptions,promoting psychological safety,
and tailoring support toindividual needs. As society
progresses toward greaterinclusivity, Becky's story
serves as a reminder of theimpact that empathy, education
and collaboration can have inempowering neurodivergent
(28:49):
learners and building a moreequitable future for all.
Connect with Becky Bishop orlearn more about her work, reach
out through LGS or follow heradvocacy journey on social media
and professional platforms.
We will provide all of them inour show notes. That's all for
today's episode of theneurodiversity voices cast.
(29:11):
Thank you so much for tuning inand being part of this important
conversation.
Tayaba Khan (29:15):
We hope you found today's discussion insightful
and inspiring. Remember, everyvoice matters, and together, we
can create a more inclusive andunderstanding world for
neurodivergent individuals. Youlike
Paul Cruz (29:27):
to enjoy this episode, don't forget to
subscribe, leave a review, andshare it with your friends,
family, or anyone who mightbenefit from these
conversations.
Tayaba Khan (29:37):
If you have any questions, ideas, or stories
you'd like to share, feel freeto reach out to us. We'd love to
hear from you.
Paul Cruz (29:44):
Until next time, take care, stay curious, and keep
celebrating the beauty ofDiverse Mind.
Tayaba Khan (29:50):
Thanks for listening to the Neurodiversity
Voices podcast.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com