September 1, 2025 • 46 mins
Hosts Paul Cruz and Gino Akbari sit down with Janelle Peters (Mental Health Counsellor) and Amy Bujak (Social Worker) from Coast Mental Health’s Brain Training Team. Together, they explore how cognitive remediation and neuroplasticity empower individuals to overcome challenges with attention, memory, and executive functioning. From practical compensatory strategies like mental retracing and task linking, to stigma-smashing art pop-ups and the power of group connection, this conversation shines a light on how hope-based recovery transforms lives.
Whether you’re neurodivergent, a caregiver, an educator, or simply curious, this episode offers tools, stories, and perspectives that remind us: growth is always possible, and healing doesn’t have to be a solo journey.
Coast Mental Health Brain Training Program Website: https://www.coastmentalhealth.com/brain-training-changes-lives/
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Chapters
00:00 Personalized Strategies for Brain Training
16:48 Transformations Through Brain Training
21:53 The Power of Group Dynamics
27:21 Integrating Peer Support in Programs
29:03 Smash the Stigma: Art as Therapy
35:14 Future Directions for Brain Training
38:41 Shifting Societal Perceptions of Mental Health
Disclaimer:
The content provided in this podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Paul Cruz (00:04):
Hello and welcome to the Neurodiversity Voices
podcast. I'm your host, PaulCruz, and I'm thrilled to have
you join us on this journey ofexploration, advocacy and
celebration of neurodiversity.
Gino Akbari (00:17):
I'm Gino Akbari, your co host. Together, we'll
have meaningful conversations,share inspiring stories and
challenge misconceptions aboutneurodiversity.
Paul Cruz (00:26):
This podcast is for everyone, whether you're We
Gino Akbari (00:42):
are so excited to have you with us as we celebrate
the beauty of diverse minds andwork toward a more inclusive
future.
Paul Cruz (00:52):
We're thrilled to be joined by not one, but two
incredible guests from the CoastMental Health Brain Training
Team. A group that is changinglives through a unique program
rooted in cognitive remediation,neuro plasticity, and hope based
recovery. Together, we'llexplore what cognitive
(01:12):
remediation really means and howit helps people overcome
challenges with attention,memory, and executive function.
The empowering role ofcompensatory strategies, simple
yet life changing tools likemental retracing or linking
tasks. How group based learningbuilds not just skills but a
(01:34):
true sense of connection andcommunity.
And we'll dive into creative,stigma smashing initiatives like
art pop ups and the future ofpeer led support. Let's get into
it. Please welcome to the showJanelle Peters and Amy Bujak
from the Coast Mental Health'sBrain Training Team. Let's start
(01:57):
with a quick round ofintroductions. Can each of you
tell us your name, your role onthe Brain Training Team, and
what first brought you to thiskind of work?
Amy Bujak (02:06):
My name's Amy. My role on the brain training team
is a social worker. And whatbrought me to the work was just
seemed like a really coolopportunity that had come up
through Coast Mental Health. I'dbeen working for them for quite
a few years at that point. Andthe idea behind cognitive
(02:28):
remediation, I thought wasreally cool and to be able to
learn more about that and tohave a different opportunity in
facilitating groups and thingslike that was something that I
just kind of jumped on.
Janelle Peters (02:40):
Hi, I'm Janelle. I'm mental health counselor
within the Brain TrainingProgram. And similarly to Amy, I
got into the work through postmental health. I was working as
a practicum student and I metAmy and Melody and discovered
more about cognitive remediationand I thought it was a very cool
opportunity to kind of work onthings that we don't necessarily
see treatments for in typicalpsychosocial rehabilitation. So
(03:04):
it was a pretty coolopportunity.
Gino Akbari (03:09):
What misconceptions do people usually have about
cognitive remediation?
Janelle Peters (03:14):
So one of the misconceptions is that people
might think that it's only forpeople with either a brain
injury or certain diagnoses, andthat it's a very clinical kind
of structured intervention. Butcognitive remediation, the way
we approach it is a very kind ofhands on, everyone can use it
approach where it's everybodycan benefit from cognitive
remediation. I myself havebenefited since joining the
(03:36):
program. I found that likethings like my memory, my
attention, my ability to problemsolve have all improved. So I
think everyone can benefit fromCR is another way to kind of
shorten version of it.
And it's not as the way we doit. It's not as clinical in that
way.
Amy Bujak (03:52):
Yeah. Like we kind of talk about it and use examples
like we've probably, or most ofus have all maybe misplaced our
keys at some point in our lifeor gone to the grocery store for
that one item. You leave thestore without that item. Right?
So there's strategies and skillsthat we can use to help us in
those moments.
Right? Like, maybe we didn'tsleep well the night before.
(04:13):
Maybe we woke up late and we're,like, not having time to, like,
eat and do what we need to do,and we're just running out the
door. Right? So we're a littlebit more scattered.
So how do we function in thosemoments, like at our best and
like, that's where CRM braintraining can come in as well.
Not just if you've had like aspecific diagnosis.
Paul Cruz (04:35):
Could you walk us through how you would address
specific areas like attention,memory, and executive
functioning during sessions?
Janelle Peters (04:45):
Yeah. So we break, we break the cognitive
functions down and we do moduleswhere there's about four or five
sessions for each of those kindof brain areas or cognitive
functions. And then we'll workthrough each with different
strategies based on kind of whatwill help us pay attention. And
then we will play games aroundattention and then bridge those
(05:05):
strategies that we use in thegames into real life. So we kind
of work through it one by onebecause we, the value of
repetition is very important.
Being able to kind of repeat it,try it again, keep trying it,
and then ingraining that in andkind of building that neural
pathway with all
Amy Bujak (05:20):
of the different strategies they learn. Yeah. The
sessions within each of the likemodalities kind of build on each
other, but you don't necessarilyhave had to attend each session
to get the concept or the ideaof the strategies that are being
taught.
Gino Akbari (05:38):
Which of these areas do participants tend to
struggle with most?
Janelle Peters (05:43):
That's a, yeah, that's an interesting one
because I think there is no, thepart that is so cool about the
program is that everyone is sodifferent. So there's so many
different ways that people'sbrains operate and it really
depends person to person. Onething we do hear a lot is like,
I have a bad memory. That mightbe a phrase that we hear quite
often in the group. And it's areally cool opportunity when we
(06:03):
hear that to shift the focusfrom I have a bad memory or I
don't have memory from somethingwe have to something we do.
So we change it to thinkingabout it as an action. Cause
when you think of memory as anaction, then you can build in
those strategies and you canbuild in tools to make that
action easier or to strengthenthat action. But that is one we
(06:23):
hear quite a bit of, and it'snice to be able to see people
shift from thinking that theyjust have a bad memory and
they're stuck that way tothinking like, oh, it's an
action I can change the way I doit.
Amy Bujak (06:32):
Yeah. Would say like everybody's different and the
areas that they might findchallenging or struggle with a
little bit more or have lots ofstrengths in are going to depend
on what their life experienceshave been as well as any
challenges that they facethemselves or have been dealing
with. Like, different parts ofthe brain might have been, like,
(06:53):
damaged in, say, like traumaticbrain injuries. So everybody's
gonna be dealing with somethingdifferent. Or if somebody has
depression, even though theymight be on the same
medications, the way that theirbrain chemistry works is going
to impact them differently.
Paul Cruz (07:12):
Are there any cognitive functions that improve
more quickly than others?
Amy Bujak (07:16):
I would say like, again, it just is very unique to
each person. So not necessarilyany specific function itself. It
just depends on the person. Soit's very unique to each person,
which is kind of the cool thingand why we really enjoy it
because it is the ability tomeet people where they're at,
(07:37):
and each person might be atsomewhere else. Like they're
just in a different space intheir life, the experiences
they've been through, whatchallenges they're facing.
So to be able to meet eachperson where they're at is a
really cool concept and notnecessarily something that every
sort of therapy modality offers.
Gino Akbari (08:02):
That gives us a solid picture of the focus
areas, but what does this looklike outside the sessions? How
do participants apply what theylearn in daily life? So could
you share some practicalexamples of the compensatory
strategies you teach, likemental retracing or linking
tasks and how participants applythem in daily life?
Janelle Peters (08:25):
Yeah. So linking tasks is one of the strategies
we use where it helps withplanning. Also remembering to
take the remembering things. Solinking tasks is about doing
things together so that youalways associate the tasks with
each other. And we'll kind ofdiscuss the strategy usually,
and then talk about specificsevery time in group.
We have a group discussion aboutspecifically how would you use
(08:46):
this and what would it behelpful for you? Oftentimes like
one example is taking medicationon time or remembering to take
our medication. Linking tasks isreally helpful for that. People
will say, I take my coffee everymorning. I have my breakfast
every morning.
I'll link my medication withthat. Even things like going to
the store, if you have tosimplify your daily routine, if
(09:07):
I'm going to the store, I'llalso take the garbage out and
check the mail at the same time.And so we'll kind of discuss
that at the end of group usuallyand during group discussion.
Amy Bujak (09:15):
And I would say like automatic places kind of plays
into that as well. So like ifyou don't see your medication,
how are you going to remember totake it? So also placing it in a
location that is easilyaccessible and visible so that
you do have it, like, with yourbreakfast or placing the garbage
by the front door so that youhave to, like, step over it when
(09:37):
you're leaving to go to thestore. Right? So, like, always
putting things kind of like backin a home as well can help with
that task.
Things like mental retracing canbe really helpful because, say,
we've misplaced an item goingback through, okay, what did I
last do? Where was I last? Whatmight I have done with it? And
(09:57):
kind of visually being able todo that in our minds instead of
having to go back to each placeevery time.
Gino Akbari (10:06):
It sounds so simple and practical and logical, but
yet none of us know thesethings. At least I don't. So
it's so good to hear that youguys run a program that actually
either reminds you or teachesyou a step by step way to do
these things.
Janelle Peters (10:24):
That's a good point. The word reminds you
because sometimes, or even justrecognizing that these are
things we might already do, butwithout the name of, oh, this is
an automatic place. Like wemight all put our remote in the
same place every day, or dothese things in different ways,
but when we talk about it as astrategy, and label it as a
strategy, then we can think of,oh, what I else use this for in
(10:46):
life? Like how else can I applythis strategy to make my life
simpler? Which is all that we'retrying to do.
A lot of brain training isreducing overwhelm and kind of
making life day to day life lessstressful, reducing stressors
and making it simpler forourselves because there's a lot
going on and there's a lot toremember. There's a lot to pay
attention to.
Amy Bujak (11:05):
Yeah. And even like things like how do you schedule
things? Right? We might sort ofalready do that, but depending
on where someone's likecognition might be at, and we
also probably take for grantedhow much cognitive effort
actually goes into that. So ifyou have an appointment that you
have to get to and you'vewritten that down, part of the
(11:27):
scheduling is also remembering,okay, this is the time my
appointment's at.
How am I getting there? How muchtime do I need to get there? Do
I need to account for likeaccidents on the road or with
transit extra travel time?What's the parking situation
like? Do I need to pay forparking before I get in there?
If the appointment is months inadvance, do I need to set
(11:50):
reminders to make sure that Iremember to go to the
appointment when it comes up?Like there's a little bit more
cognitive effort that goes intoit than we sort of realize it.
Paul Cruz (12:02):
Most examples really show how accessible and
practical these tools can be butI imagine not every strategy
works for everyone. How do youpersonalize that? How do you
tailor strategies to differentcognitive strengths and
challenges? Do you use anyassessments or participant
feedback to personalize thesupport? And how do you support
(12:24):
individuals who may be resistantor unsure of their abilities?
Janelle Peters (12:29):
That's a good question. Yeah, it is very true.
And we do definitely like nostrategy is going to work for
everyone and everyone kind oftakes different things from all
of our sessions. Everybody isdifferent. And so then the
strategies they use are going tobe different.
And the one of the ways wepersonalize it is by offering
kind of a wide variety ofstrategies based on different
strengths. So we say these areall the strategies and then
(12:52):
people discuss what haspreviously worked for them or
what isn't working for them. Anda lot of the personalization
comes through conversations andfeedback of trying it out,
seeing if it worked. We do havean assessment and we do tend to
start off the programs withthat, but our groups are a very
open format of like drop informat. So it makes it harder to
(13:13):
have that standardized piece,but we have really valued like
those open discussions of what'sworking, what's not, because
often people will learn fromeach other in those as well.
Because people will see, oh,that didn't work for you. What
did you do differently? What didyou do instead? And then they
say, I tried this. And so it's alot of peer to peer learning as
well.
Amy Bujak (13:30):
Yeah. And we use a few different, types of, I
guess, like media would be theright word. So like using like
videos so that can be a form oflike role playing so that people
can actually like watch it inaction. If there's like a video
that's applicable for that aswell as some activities or even
the games sometimes, right? Likeif we're talking about looking
(13:55):
at things from like a differentpoint of view and taking a
different perspective, If youhave, like, a physical, like,
board game or handheld game,like, we use the example with
the game rush hour, which iskind of, square parking lot, and
you're trying to get a car outof the parking lot, but you have
to move all the other littlepieces around to be able to do
(14:16):
that.
Literally just shifting theboard to look at it from a
different perspective. Or do youneed to walk away and come back
later with a fresh set of eyesso that maybe you've been
staring at it too long? Allkinds of different problems in
our lives, sometimes we need totake that step back, walk away
(14:36):
from it, and then come back withwhether we've slept on it
overnight. We've maybe askedsomebody else for help, all
those kinds of things. Soproviding different ways for
people to see that in action isa tool that we definitely
utilize a lot and like feedback,especially from other people as
to like what is working for youin the group.
(14:57):
What would you like to see moreof? Do we want to spend more
time talking about this orworking on this or have another
activity to put this into actionand things like that?
Janelle Peters (15:07):
As well with, with the games, it's a cool
opportunity to kind of reflectstrengths back to the clients.
Like I see, you know, you say,oh, I see that you did this in
order to, kind of get throughthat game or like what worked
for you in the game. And thenthey will see for themselves,
like was able to do thatthrough. I was able to pay
attention, for example, by usingmy fidget toy, or I was actually
(15:28):
able to memorize by making anacronym in my head. So then
that's where we'll see thestrength and then we can use the
strength to apply and buildstrategies based off people's
different strengths.
And same thing with, I wanted toaddress the part where you said,
resist. How do we handle,participants who may be
resistant or worry about theirabilities or kind of shut down
at the concept of trying thisout or the strategies out? And I
(15:51):
feel like the brain trainingprogram has a really cool
approach to that, where we don'tforce people or rush people
through the process of believingin themselves or believing in
their brain abilities, becauseit's a different process for
everyone. And so we kind ofallow conversations about those
self doubts. We kind offacilitate that and we sit with
people through maybe theuncomfortable feeling of
(16:13):
addressing some of their fearsor doubts about themselves.
And then through that, peopletend to see for themselves at
their own pace that, oh, hey, Ican do this. And it's okay for
me to try something and then itnot work and I can try it again.
So it's really a patient beingwith the person through this
journey of like rewiring ourbrain and re understanding the
way our brain works.
Amy Bujak (16:33):
Yeah. And just to kind of go off of that as well
is like also as facilitatorsgoing into it, being flexible as
well. So, like, if theconversation and the group kinda
goes in a different directionthan what we had gone in with
the plan of, going with that,see where that takes us. Do we
need to kind of redirect andbring it back, or are we gonna
(16:56):
just completely go in that otherdirection? Because that's what
the majority of the group wouldlike to do.
And just allowing that to alsohappen, like, naturally to like
meet people where they're atthat day. Right? We don't have
to follow this set plan of whatwe had. What does the group
need? What does the group want?
Or that individual if we'redoing like a one on one, right?
(17:17):
What do they need in thatmoment? And also being able to
provide the opportunity forpeople to just observe and
listen. Right. Cause a lot ofpeople will kind of gain a lot
from like that sort of likeosmosis, right?
Like they're just absorbing theinformation and then they can
kind of take that at their ownpace. And we found that even
allowing people to do that,eventually they start actively
(17:38):
participating in the group aswell.
Gino Akbari (17:43):
So there is a real emphasis on meeting people where
they're at. Let's shift gearsand look at what happens when
this kind of work starts to takeroot. What kinds of personal
transformations have you seen inparticipants as a result of
brain training? And are therespecific behaviors or attitudes
that shift as people go throughthe program? Has anyone ever
(18:05):
surprised you with the changesthey made?
Janelle Peters (18:07):
Yeah. The shifts in the beliefs and their
attitudes is part of like one ofthe most impactful parts I think
that we see, and it's a commonshift of, especially in
confidence and in belief aboutthemselves and their ability to
change and grow. A lot of thetime we see initial phrases like
my brain is broken is one thatis hard to hear. It's, it's
(18:30):
something that a lot of peoplefeel because you've grown up in
a system that maybe doesn'taccommodate for your different
ways of thinking or differentways of perceiving things. And
we see a shift from my brain isbroken to, I can actually change
the way I'm thinking.
I can also change the strategiesto help me function in these
different environments. And sowe see this big boost of
(18:51):
confidence that if you trythings and you make mistakes, it
doesn't mean it's a failure. Itmeans you're actually
challenging your brain andgrowing new neural connections.
So we see a very big growthmindset being grown of believing
that if I try hard enough or ifI do things repeatedly, think
growth will happen. And a beliefin ourselves and our ability to
kind of commit to things as welland change the way we think.
Amy Bujak (19:14):
Yeah, definitely. It's huge. I would say like
people's like core beliefs aboutthemselves and their
understanding of way the worldworks and things like that, it
would be a huge thing thatpeople's attitudes and actions,
behaviors kind of alter as well.Because if we're, say,
experiencing a lot of anxiety,so we're tending to isolate. And
(19:35):
now we've gained a little bitmore confidence in our ability
to overcome that.
So anxiety is typically weunderestimate our ability to
cope and overestimate the threator danger that might be there.
And that threat could be, I'mgoing to fail or I'm going to be
rejected. So in the groupenvironment, people are learning
(19:57):
that it's okay to make mistakes.It's nothing's going to be
perfect, right? Nobody'sperfect.
And especially if you're justlearning something for the first
time, why would you be perfectat it? Right. So that in and of
itself helps people thenrealize, okay, I can overcome
this. And like the confidencethat people gain through that
and in their ability to copewith situations, taking that
(20:19):
into like how they face theworld around them and their
belief about the world aroundthem and how they show up in the
world. It's pretty amazing tosee the changes.
Janelle Peters (20:29):
Yeah. One of a quote that we, one of the
clients said to us was, I feelhopeful and strong right now.
Like I have the ability to shapemy mind, kind of like I can grow
around my trauma, grow from itand grow above it. And you hear
that sentiment and you see thatlike these people are believing
in their abilities, but alsothat self awareness of like,
(20:50):
this is understand myself and Ican change things about my
environment. I can kind of havethat agency and that autonomy
over my circumstances.
And I think that's a really coolpart of what we see.
Paul Cruz (21:02):
It seems like even recognizing existing strategies,
things people were already doingcan be a turning point. What's
the emotional impact of namingvalidating something someone
already does? And how do youhelp people recognize and
celebrate these small victories?
Amy Bujak (21:22):
Yeah. That's that's a really good question. So I know
even for myself, it's like ifwe're doing something and we
just kind of do it, but don'tnecessarily think of it as,
like, a skill, it's justsomething you do because you do
it. Being able to, like,identify it and label it as this
is a strategy, this is a skillcan be really empowering in
(21:44):
people realizing they're morethan they think they're more
capable of more than they think.Right?
So that sense of empowerment canthen filter into the other
aspects of their life and howthey're showing up for
themselves and for other people,for the people around them, and
they're in differentenvironments. Yeah.
Janelle Peters (22:04):
And I think we often will over focus as humans,
especially just on the negativeand what are we doing wrong?
What have I done wrong today? Orwhat have I not done? And this
is a Brain training is a coolopportunity to refocus on what
have I done right? And what am Idoing right?
How am I supporting myself? Andwhen we can label something
(22:25):
someone's already doing as likea skill that's been trying, that
is being taught and it's aresearch based kind of strategy,
not only does it make kind ofrecognize that strength there,
but it also normalizes theexperience that we all need
support. We all need differentstrategies to manage life. It's
very overwhelming at times. Sokind of seeing that this is a
strategy that you've come upwith on your own to manage life,
(22:47):
and this is something thatyou've created and been creative
about, I think it's a cool wayto build that self awareness and
that confidence.
Yeah.
Gino Akbari (22:58):
And moments like that can reshape someone's
entire self perception. Andspeaking of reshaping, I wanted
to explore how the group formatinfluences the process. In what
ways does the group formatfoster community, belonging, and
mutual learning? What'ssomething you've seen happen in
group that couldn't havehappened one in one?
Amy Bujak (23:19):
I would say it like there's the normalizing and
validating from like a peerlevel as the facilitator.
Unfortunately, there'sinherently that sort of
authority figure power over asmuch as we try to de center that
or minimize that as much as wecan, it's just sort of
inherently there. So being ableto have that validation and that
(23:41):
normalization from a peer levelcan really be helpful in people
understanding like they're notalone in what they're going
through and that there are waysto overcome some of the
struggles and the challengesthat they might be experiencing.
Just a huge part of it.
Janelle Peters (23:58):
Yeah. The conversations, I feel it breaks
a lot of the shame down of, youknow, I feel shameful because I
find this thing hard or I findit hard to remember to do my
laundry every Sunday. I find itvery hard to do that. And it's
taking away that shameassociated with some of these
things. And then being able todiscuss as a group and say, oh,
that really, yeah, that's sohard for me.
(24:20):
What do you do? One of thequotes from our clients was
about the social element ofgroups. He said socializing with
people that other people feelthe same way. The one thing I
learned that I wasn't the onlyone, it made me feel that I
could do it because, you know,six, seven other people
discussed the same thing. Theymust be going through that same
thing.
So it made me feel that's notjust me. And I kind of go with
(24:41):
the motto like self help comesfrom helping others. So when I
can do that here, it makes mefeel good. And I, I really love
that self help comes fromhelping others piece of being
able to share what works for youand help someone else.
Gino Akbari (25:00):
That's a way of creating a safe environment.
It's in numbers.
Janelle Peters (25:04):
Yeah. Yeah. Hearing a bunch of people
experience the same thing as youis it can be a really powerful
experience, I think.
Amy Bujak (25:10):
Yeah. And it kind of ties back into like the previous
question too of likecelebrating, like, people's wins
and those small successes thatthey start to see and having,
like, a whole group of people beable to do that together and
celebrate each other can bereally empowering as well. So
that like motivation continuesto build and then people have
(25:33):
more, even more successes. Yeah.The teamwork can be
Janelle Peters (25:37):
a really, really cool thing in great brain
training because we're allworking towards a common goal,
like whether it's through Wordleor one of our brain games,
everyone working together, toshare that celebration can be
super connecting and communitybuilding and people recognizing
each other's strengths. A lot ofthe time participants will say,
Hey, that was so good. How didyou come up with that? They'll
hold each other accountable aswell for lots of things. Like
(25:59):
I've had participants kind ofsay, Oh, how's it going with
your trying to sleep better?
Have you been able to sleepbetter? So we kind of all hold
each other accountable. And Iwould say the other really cool
part about group format is youhear so many different
perspectives when you're in agroup. You're hearing people who
have a very different way ofthinking than you do. So kind of
sharing those differentperspectives and hearing someone
(26:21):
who might have very differentlife experiences to you, you can
learn so much in a safe placelike this, where there is that
open discussion and kind ofvulnerable sharing of all of our
strengths and all the thingswe're working through.
Amy Bujak (26:32):
Yeah. As well as like resource sharing. Like, what
have you found that works foryou at school? Maybe I'll try
that too. Right.
So like resources that peoplemight not have been aware of
where you're in a one on one,you probably won't get the as
much variety of that because wemight be limited in our
knowledge of the resources thatare out there and available.
Janelle Peters (26:52):
And sorry, one more thing. I just keep
thinking, because I thinksocial, the social connection in
the community is such a big partbecause as humans, we are social
creatures, but we need thatcommunity element and the social
interaction can be hard attimes, like finding spaces where
you can connect to people andmake friends or make those
connections. And even withsocial anxiety, it's being in a
(27:13):
group format is a great way topractice these social skills in
a setting that feels safe aswell. And I've had clients who
have said, I I've noticed myteamwork's gotten better because
it can be frustrating to workingin a team when someone's not,
you know, like the wholedynamics, but noticing those
ability to regulate my anger ormy frustration and then
communicate effectively. It'slike, we're seeing the skills
(27:36):
being practiced in group as welloutside of group in that way.
Paul Cruz (27:43):
That sense of belonging can be so healing. And
you're planning to take thateven further by bringing in peer
support workers, right? You'reexploring integrating peer
support workers into theprogram. How might this enhance
the experience for participants?And what would a peer support
worker be able to offer thatstaff, Kent?
(28:05):
And do any of your currentfacilitators have lived
experience they draw from?
Amy Bujak (28:10):
Yeah. So, like, an area where we see significant
potential for enrichment of theprogram is the addition of peer
support. Because, again, likewith the staff, unfortunately,
there is inherently that sort ofpower dynamic. Right? That
you're a staff member, you'renot necessarily a participant.
(28:31):
Right? So it can help minimizethat a lot more. And from, like,
a peer level, you can lead withyour experience. Whereas like
the staff self disclosure is atool to be used for sure, but
it's not something that we'releading with. Right?
So we use it and we share ourexperiences and cognitive
(28:54):
remediation in general reallydoes encourage that facilitators
actually share their experienceswith the strategies, with the
tools, but it's just sort of ona different level.
Janelle Peters (29:06):
Yeah. We, we really try to kind of break down
the power imbalance between likea therapist and a client or
whatever that might be, becausewe are all human. We're all
working through differentthings. And I often will share
my own lived experience ingroups because it is so
valuable, our lived experience.A lot of the time we learn most
from that.
Everybody can learn so much fromhaving going through things.
(29:28):
More than a lot of the time,what we learn in textbooks, how
does this apply to my life? Andwhat did I learn from these
different experiences? And peersupport is just a great avenue
to kind of solidify how much wevalue that lived experience
piece because it's so, we see itbeing so impactful. So we would
love to kind of have that on ourteam as well at that at some
point in the future, hopefully.
Gino Akbari (29:52):
So it's not just about skill building, it's about
shared experience and trust.Another way you've fostered that
is through your creativeinitiatives. The Smash the
Stigma art pop ups are powerfulvisual metaphors. What inspired
this initiative and how haveparticipants responded to it?
What's a moment from one ofthese events that really stayed
(30:14):
with you and how do participantsdescribe the emotional impact of
that activity?
Janelle Peters (30:18):
Yeah. So the Smash the Stigma activity was an
art pop up we did at oneprogram, and then it's kind of
grown into a bigger projectwhere essentially to kind of
summarize what we, what theactivity is, is that
participants will write downwords on a big canvas. We've got
a huge canvas and everyone'swriting words that they've been
labeled or that the communityhas been called things that they
(30:41):
don't feel represent them. Andthey want to kind of smash the
power away from those words. Soit might be like lazy, lost
cause, dramatic, anything thatpeople want to rip the power
from.
Amy Bujak (30:53):
Yeah. Manipulative is one that comes up quite a bit.
The sad and unfortunate part isthat a lot of the times, this
part of the project comes supereasily to people. Like, they've
heard so many negative thingsabout themselves, about the
community that they're a partof.
Janelle Peters (31:12):
Yeah. It was, it was an interesting experience
because that was the easy part.And then the next parts you'd
expect to be more light, but alot of the time reflecting
positive things about ourselvescan be kind of uncomfortable
when we've spent so long hearingthese words or saying these
words to them ourselves. Soessentially what we did was
(31:33):
write those words down, fill uppaint balloons or water balloons
with paint, and then throw thewater balloons at the canvas
altogether. And then we wouldcover the paint with new kind of
reaffirming words for what do webelieve about ourselves or what
are some of the things that wevalue and our community's
beliefs and things thatrepresent us.
And I think that it was areally, the shared experience of
(31:56):
processing those each differentstep. It was kind of that
community building that wereally love to see. One word
that came up a lot was relief.We had some one client said, I
feel three pounds lighter. It'slike a physical relief because
sometimes it's scary to addressthese things we're called in the
language, it's harmful and it'shurtful.
And then doing it alone, it canfeel scary. But as a community,
(32:18):
we're all doing it together. Andso we're kind of holding that
space together and to experiencethose collective emotions and
anger and the sadness, but thenreplacing that with that relief
and connection.
Amy Bujak (32:28):
Yeah. It's been interesting because people have
shared too that they haven'tnecessarily felt that they've
been provided the opportunitiesor the space in a safe space to
be able to actually address howthese stigmas impact them and
affect them. And people sharinglike how much emotional release
(32:50):
and how empowering it was tofeel like they were taking back
their identity and like smashingaway the stigma by being able to
like throw the paint balloon.Like some people really toss
that balloon and it is likereally cathartic and really
healing.
Janelle Peters (33:08):
Yeah. It was like a, it was such a mix of
emotions to doing it, which wasreally cool because it was
laughter. There was crying.There was really important
discussions happening throughoutthe whole process. One client
said, these words, we know theyexist and we're called them
constantly, but we neveracknowledge it or how it feels.
It doesn't feel safe to do itwhen we're alone, but when we do
(33:28):
it as a group, it feels like arelief. And the reason we did
this was to kind of spark thoseimportant conversations and
start the conversation ofconfronting what are the harmful
beliefs that people have aroundmental illness, addictions, and
homelessness, and how can wechange the way we as a
collective community discuss andview that because our language
really matters.
Amy Bujak (33:47):
Yeah. Was, it's been cool too, because in some of the
programs that we've gone to andwe've kind of started with this
initiative and that's how theygot to know us through that. And
then that actually led to themwanting to check out like the
brain training program andactually participating in it
that way. So it's been kind ofcool to be able to tie those two
(34:08):
things together and how eachinitiative and program has been
able to provide moreopportunities for people as
well.
Gino Akbari (34:19):
Right. So, I mean, I've heard of visualization and
affirmations, and it's almostlike you guys are giving it a
more tangible material thingthrough art, which is
therapeutic in itself. Somarrying the two is incredible
to hear. I know when I wasyoung, my mom made me write some
stuff that I didn't like on apiece of paper and took me to
the river and we threw it inthere and said goodbye to it. So
(34:42):
it sort of reminds me of that, amore elaborate version of that.
Janelle Peters (34:45):
Yeah. Thank you
Gino Akbari (34:46):
for sharing.
Janelle Peters (34:47):
That's so cool. I love that she did that. It's
it is similar. It's like gettingrid of like writing it out,
confronting the beliefs and likeuncomfortable and then getting
rid of it and replacing it withpositive. I love that.
Amy Bujak (34:58):
Yeah. Yeah. Especially because like in
different like therapeuticmodalities, we talk about like
letting go, but like how andwhat does that look like? So
being able to actually kind ofdo it in a really like tangible
way, like even writing it downand taking it to the river or
ripping it up or whatever itmight be and throwing paint at
the words, right? It's a, it's acool process that allows people
(35:19):
to actually sort of live it.
Janelle Peters (35:21):
And then there is a tangible piece of art
that's in each of the programsthat kind of shows, like
represents this process ofreclaiming these words and,
taking them power away from themand then what they actually want
their community to be seen asand represented by.
Paul Cruz (35:38):
That's such a powerful metaphor visually and
emotionally. Before we wrap up,I'd love to hear what's next for
the brain training program. Whatnew directions or expansions are
you most excited about for thefuture of brain training? Are
there any partnerships, researchprojects, or new tools you're
(35:58):
developing? And how do you planto keep the program participant
centered as it grows?
Amy Bujak (36:03):
So we definitely are wanting to develop more peer
support roles within the programitself. And an area to like
expand and keep the programgoing is we're hoping to train
more of the staff within postmental health so that the
program itself has like abroader reach within the
(36:23):
organization right now. The goalis to eventually be able to
provide to more communitymembers outside of Coast Mental
Health, but we're not quite atthat point yet, but definitely
more staff training, more peersupport.
Janelle Peters (36:40):
Yeah, we have, we have some peer support
workers that, practicum studentshave been shadowing some of our
groups. And so we're partneringwith a lot of the peer support
training right now. And we do amonthly, like we do a workshop
with the peer support trainingas their curriculum. So we're
hoping to train more peersupport workers and also staff
to eventually reach more peoplebecause for the past three
(37:03):
years, it's still only been thethree of us and we are trying to
reach more groups and hopefullykind of increase the impact that
brand training can have becauseit is such a cool program, I
believe. Yeah.
Amy Bujak (37:12):
Yeah. Ideally, I think we'd want to expand the
accessibility of the programbecause a lot of, like, the
cognitive remediation programsaren't necessarily super
accessible right now. I knowthat one individual that I work
with had a brain injury throughsepsis and trying to find a
(37:40):
rehabilitation program thatwould specifically focus on the
the brain was really difficultand was really inaccessible,
whether that was, like, costwise or, like, location wise,
things like that. Right? And alot of the programs have very
(38:03):
specific intake criteria.
So one of the things that'sreally cool about Coast is the
population that we're workingwith. We don't have like an
intake criteria. We don't haveanybody that we rule out. So
again, with like meeting peoplewhere they're at, some of the
programs that we go to, peopleare in active addiction and
(38:25):
we're not saying, no, you can'tparticipate in this. We're just
meeting them where they're at.
And that might be, okay, let'splay Scrabble today. Let's just
build relationship.
Janelle Peters (38:33):
Yeah. It's breaking down barriers to access
to care. So breaking downanything that might stop people
from receiving help or eventhings like making it so that
the content we deliver isaccessible. If it's not going to
be sitting down at a computer,maybe we do play games. And it's
all about being flexible.
And that's, I guess, the personcentered piece is we're hoping
(38:54):
to kind of receive more feedbackand continue to improve on how
we can deliver it. And there'sso many different ways. Like,
there's an unlimited amount ofways that you can practice these
strategies or teach thesestrategies. It doesn't have to
be in one way. We did a researchstudy looking at the program and
kind of asking clients and whatworks and what do you feel the
(39:15):
benefits have been.
So we have a lot ofunderstanding from that. And so
hopefully we're gonna grow fromthat and continue to, I guess,
create a space where people cankind of tell us what's working
and what's not.
Gino Akbari (39:27):
And finally, to bring it full circle, if you
could see one shift in howsociety views cognitive
challenges or mental illness,what would it be? What role do
programs like yours play inshifting that narrative? How can
listeners or the broader publiccontribute to that change?
Amy Bujak (39:43):
I think one thing that we've talked about that we
would love to see a change in islike society's perception of
mental illness and things thatthey maybe don't experience
themselves. Like maybe peopleare seeing things that other
people aren't seeing or hearingthings that other people aren't
hearing, or they're experiencingsymptoms of like a brain injury
(40:06):
or cognitive challenges andsomebody so maybe they're acting
a little bit differently fromwhat somebody would maybe
expect. And to minimize and totake away from that fear
response. I think that would belike one of the biggest changes
that we would love to see.Right.
And taking away the idea that,or changing the idea that and
belief that a mental illness,it's like a weakness or that
(40:29):
people have fixed limitations.Right? Because the idea of
recovery being more on aspectrum instead of it has to
look a certain way.
Janelle Peters (40:39):
Yeah. I think that changing the view from
there's a right way to live andthere's a right way to exist.
There's a wrong way and takingaway judgments because we, all
of our brains are so differentand there's no right or wrong
way to exist in this world.People see something that's
different from them and the waythat they think or the way that
they feel. That judgment piececan be really harmful.
So I think just being moreaccepting and more open to just
(41:01):
hearing from other people andhearing about what your
different experiences arewithout that fear or judgment or
connotation of this is good orbad because everybody's just
different and there is no rightway to do it. Yeah.
Amy Bujak (41:13):
I think we'd love to see more curiosity about other
people's like lived experiences.What has that been like? More
compassion and understanding,more inclusion, really.
Janelle Peters (41:25):
And another another thing I think that would
be really impactful for forpeople to think about the way
our brains work is that ourbrains are constantly evolving
and growing, and there's neverit's never too late to try to
change a habit or to change theway you think. So our brains
have the capacity to change andgrow over the course of our
lifetime. It's not just whenwe're young and we can
(41:46):
constantly grow new neuralconnections. So being able to
think of, think of ourselves asconstantly evolving and that
it's never too late to try tochange the way that you exist or
the way you think.
Amy Bujak (41:57):
Yeah. And I think that the role that the program
serves in shifting thatnarrative towards that is
definitely through, like, agreater understanding of
neuroplasticity and that peopledo have the capacity for change
and for growth and for learningnew things no matter where
(42:18):
they're at or what theirchallenges might be. And that
one thing that I learned evenfor myself in learning more
about cognitive remediation washelping, like, contextualize
somebody's, like, symptoms orbehaviors that they might be
experiencing. So if somebody issuffering from schizophrenia,
(42:39):
there's a lot of cognitivesymptoms that go along with
that, but people tend to focusmore so on the symptoms of,
like, hallucinations, delusions,like things like that. But what
about the fact that somebody'scognition has been impacted and
then then how that shows up forthem?
Right? So people get referred toas, like, lazy because maybe
(43:03):
they're not able to maintaintheir, like hygiene as well.
Actually that could be thatthere's something going on with
their executive functioning.Right. Or with depression,
people experience sort of likebrain fog, which impacts like
memory and attention and thingslike that as well.
So instead of, again, somebodyjust like not paying attention
(43:26):
because they don't care oragain, like they're lazy,
they're whatever the words mightbe. It's shifting the narrative
to, like, okay. Well, like,somebody's memory is being
impacted by this. So what aresome strategies that, like,
would help them through thosetimes? Right?
Same thing with anxiety. I mean,if you're experiencing anxiety,
it's harder to focus and payattention as well. Right? So
(43:48):
like, are some tools and somestrengths? So being able to like
shift the narrative from what'swrong with you to what have your
experience has been.
Janelle Peters (43:58):
And that shift can be done through one on one
work. But also these groupdiscussions and things like this
coming on this podcast and justtalking about it and creating
more conversation to validateand normalize everyone's
experience and kind of take awaythat shame that might come with
having a hard time with keepingup with life or memorizing
things. It's stripping the shameaway and having more open
(44:20):
conversations about what's goingon for me, what are the
challenges I'm having, and howcan I make it easier for myself?
Yeah.
Amy Bujak (44:26):
And like how the listeners or broader public can
contribute to that change, thinkis, again, like we were saying
before, with, like, curiosityand openness and self learning
and wanting to, like, know moreabout other people's experiences
and what that might be like andbeing able to, like, seek the
information to provide a greaterunderstanding of that instead of
(44:49):
just, like, a fear basedresponse from what the media
might be representing. Yeah.Getting away
Janelle Peters (44:54):
from black and white thinking and thinking
about things in a nuanced waythat there are many ways to
exist and being curious abouteach other and ourselves, like
what is working for me and whatisn't, being honest about, you
know, what struggles do I haveand taking away the shame when
we're thinking about ourselvesas well.
Amy Bujak (45:10):
Yeah, and this might be a bit of a shameless plug,
but also being able tocontribute to programs like ours
so we can keep providing theseopportunities for people as
well, right? Because our programis 100 donor funded.
Paul Cruz (45:27):
Thank you so much, Amy and Janelle, for coming
over.
Janelle Peters (45:30):
Thank you. Thank you so much for having us. We
really appreciate this and it'sso cool, this platform you've
created. You're doing a lot ofthe work that we're talking
about right now by just havingthese conversations.
Gino Akbari (45:43):
Thank you so much to the team from Coast Mental
Health's Brain Training Programfor joining us today and for the
powerful work you do every dayto help people reclaim
confidence, strengthen cognitiveskills and reconnect with the
community. If there's onetakeaway from today's
conversation, it's this. Ourbrains are capable of change.
(46:04):
Growth isn't just possible. It'salready happening in small
meaningful ways every time weuse a new strategy.
Reach out for support or reframehow we see ourselves.
Paul Cruz (46:14):
Whether you've experienced cognitive
challenges, supported someonewho has or are simply curious
about how we learn and adapt, wehope this episode reminded you
that you are not alone and thathealing doesn't have to look
like a solo journey.
Gino Akbari (46:31):
If you enjoyed this conversation, please rate, share
it, subscribe, and leave areview on your favorite podcast
app.
Paul Cruz (46:38):
If you have any questions, ideas, or stories
you'd like to share, feel freeto contact us. Our web site is
neurodiversityvoices.com. Pleasefill out our listener survey
form. We'd love to hear fromyou.
Gino Akbari (46:53):
Till next time, take care, stay curious, and
keep celebrating the beauty ofdiverse minds.
Paul Cruz (46:59):
Thanks for listening to the Neurodiversity Voices
podcast.
Hello and welcome to the Neurodiversity Voices
podcast. I'm your host, PaulCruz, and I'm thrilled to have
you join us on this journey ofexploration, advocacy and
celebration of neurodiversity.
Gino Akbari (00:17):
I'm Gino Akbari, your co host. Together, we'll
have meaningful conversations,share inspiring stories and
challenge misconceptions aboutneurodiversity.
Paul Cruz (00:26):
This podcast is for everyone, whether you're We
Gino Akbari (00:42):
are so excited to have you with us as we celebrate
the beauty of diverse minds andwork toward a more inclusive
future.
Paul Cruz (00:52):
We're thrilled to be joined by not one, but two
incredible guests from the CoastMental Health Brain Training
Team. A group that is changinglives through a unique program
rooted in cognitive remediation,neuro plasticity, and hope based
recovery. Together, we'llexplore what cognitive
(01:12):
remediation really means and howit helps people overcome
challenges with attention,memory, and executive function.
The empowering role ofcompensatory strategies, simple
yet life changing tools likemental retracing or linking
tasks. How group based learningbuilds not just skills but a
(01:34):
true sense of connection andcommunity.
And we'll dive into creative,stigma smashing initiatives like
art pop ups and the future ofpeer led support. Let's get into
it. Please welcome to the showJanelle Peters and Amy Bujak
from the Coast Mental Health'sBrain Training Team. Let's start
(01:57):
with a quick round ofintroductions. Can each of you
tell us your name, your role onthe Brain Training Team, and
what first brought you to thiskind of work?
Amy Bujak (02:06):
My name's Amy. My role on the brain training team
is a social worker. And whatbrought me to the work was just
seemed like a really coolopportunity that had come up
through Coast Mental Health. I'dbeen working for them for quite
a few years at that point. Andthe idea behind cognitive
(02:28):
remediation, I thought wasreally cool and to be able to
learn more about that and tohave a different opportunity in
facilitating groups and thingslike that was something that I
just kind of jumped on.
Janelle Peters (02:40):
Hi, I'm Janelle. I'm mental health counselor
within the Brain TrainingProgram. And similarly to Amy, I
got into the work through postmental health. I was working as
a practicum student and I metAmy and Melody and discovered
more about cognitive remediationand I thought it was a very cool
opportunity to kind of work onthings that we don't necessarily
see treatments for in typicalpsychosocial rehabilitation. So
(03:04):
it was a pretty coolopportunity.
Gino Akbari (03:09):
What misconceptions do people usually have about
cognitive remediation?
Janelle Peters (03:14):
So one of the misconceptions is that people
might think that it's only forpeople with either a brain
injury or certain diagnoses, andthat it's a very clinical kind
of structured intervention. Butcognitive remediation, the way
we approach it is a very kind ofhands on, everyone can use it
approach where it's everybodycan benefit from cognitive
remediation. I myself havebenefited since joining the
(03:36):
program. I found that likethings like my memory, my
attention, my ability to problemsolve have all improved. So I
think everyone can benefit fromCR is another way to kind of
shorten version of it.
And it's not as the way we doit. It's not as clinical in that
way.
Amy Bujak (03:52):
Yeah. Like we kind of talk about it and use examples
like we've probably, or most ofus have all maybe misplaced our
keys at some point in our lifeor gone to the grocery store for
that one item. You leave thestore without that item. Right?
So there's strategies and skillsthat we can use to help us in
those moments.
Right? Like, maybe we didn'tsleep well the night before.
(04:13):
Maybe we woke up late and we're,like, not having time to, like,
eat and do what we need to do,and we're just running out the
door. Right? So we're a littlebit more scattered.
So how do we function in thosemoments, like at our best and
like, that's where CRM braintraining can come in as well.
Not just if you've had like aspecific diagnosis.
Paul Cruz (04:35):
Could you walk us through how you would address
specific areas like attention,memory, and executive
functioning during sessions?
Janelle Peters (04:45):
Yeah. So we break, we break the cognitive
functions down and we do moduleswhere there's about four or five
sessions for each of those kindof brain areas or cognitive
functions. And then we'll workthrough each with different
strategies based on kind of whatwill help us pay attention. And
then we will play games aroundattention and then bridge those
(05:05):
strategies that we use in thegames into real life. So we kind
of work through it one by onebecause we, the value of
repetition is very important.
Being able to kind of repeat it,try it again, keep trying it,
and then ingraining that in andkind of building that neural
pathway with all
Amy Bujak (05:20):
of the different strategies they learn. Yeah. The
sessions within each of the likemodalities kind of build on each
other, but you don't necessarilyhave had to attend each session
to get the concept or the ideaof the strategies that are being
taught.
Gino Akbari (05:38):
Which of these areas do participants tend to
struggle with most?
Janelle Peters (05:43):
That's a, yeah, that's an interesting one
because I think there is no, thepart that is so cool about the
program is that everyone is sodifferent. So there's so many
different ways that people'sbrains operate and it really
depends person to person. Onething we do hear a lot is like,
I have a bad memory. That mightbe a phrase that we hear quite
often in the group. And it's areally cool opportunity when we
(06:03):
hear that to shift the focusfrom I have a bad memory or I
don't have memory from somethingwe have to something we do.
So we change it to thinkingabout it as an action. Cause
when you think of memory as anaction, then you can build in
those strategies and you canbuild in tools to make that
action easier or to strengthenthat action. But that is one we
(06:23):
hear quite a bit of, and it'snice to be able to see people
shift from thinking that theyjust have a bad memory and
they're stuck that way tothinking like, oh, it's an
action I can change the way I doit.
Amy Bujak (06:32):
Yeah. Would say like everybody's different and the
areas that they might findchallenging or struggle with a
little bit more or have lots ofstrengths in are going to depend
on what their life experienceshave been as well as any
challenges that they facethemselves or have been dealing
with. Like, different parts ofthe brain might have been, like,
(06:53):
damaged in, say, like traumaticbrain injuries. So everybody's
gonna be dealing with somethingdifferent. Or if somebody has
depression, even though theymight be on the same
medications, the way that theirbrain chemistry works is going
to impact them differently.
Paul Cruz (07:12):
Are there any cognitive functions that improve
more quickly than others?
Amy Bujak (07:16):
I would say like, again, it just is very unique to
each person. So not necessarilyany specific function itself. It
just depends on the person. Soit's very unique to each person,
which is kind of the cool thingand why we really enjoy it
because it is the ability tomeet people where they're at,
(07:37):
and each person might be atsomewhere else. Like they're
just in a different space intheir life, the experiences
they've been through, whatchallenges they're facing.
So to be able to meet eachperson where they're at is a
really cool concept and notnecessarily something that every
sort of therapy modality offers.
Gino Akbari (08:02):
That gives us a solid picture of the focus
areas, but what does this looklike outside the sessions? How
do participants apply what theylearn in daily life? So could
you share some practicalexamples of the compensatory
strategies you teach, likemental retracing or linking
tasks and how participants applythem in daily life?
Janelle Peters (08:25):
Yeah. So linking tasks is one of the strategies
we use where it helps withplanning. Also remembering to
take the remembering things. Solinking tasks is about doing
things together so that youalways associate the tasks with
each other. And we'll kind ofdiscuss the strategy usually,
and then talk about specificsevery time in group.
We have a group discussion aboutspecifically how would you use
(08:46):
this and what would it behelpful for you? Oftentimes like
one example is taking medicationon time or remembering to take
our medication. Linking tasks isreally helpful for that. People
will say, I take my coffee everymorning. I have my breakfast
every morning.
I'll link my medication withthat. Even things like going to
the store, if you have tosimplify your daily routine, if
(09:07):
I'm going to the store, I'llalso take the garbage out and
check the mail at the same time.And so we'll kind of discuss
that at the end of group usuallyand during group discussion.
Amy Bujak (09:15):
And I would say like automatic places kind of plays
into that as well. So like ifyou don't see your medication,
how are you going to remember totake it? So also placing it in a
location that is easilyaccessible and visible so that
you do have it, like, with yourbreakfast or placing the garbage
by the front door so that youhave to, like, step over it when
(09:37):
you're leaving to go to thestore. Right? So, like, always
putting things kind of like backin a home as well can help with
that task.
Things like mental retracing canbe really helpful because, say,
we've misplaced an item goingback through, okay, what did I
last do? Where was I last? Whatmight I have done with it? And
(09:57):
kind of visually being able todo that in our minds instead of
having to go back to each placeevery time.
Gino Akbari (10:06):
It sounds so simple and practical and logical, but
yet none of us know thesethings. At least I don't. So
it's so good to hear that youguys run a program that actually
either reminds you or teachesyou a step by step way to do
these things.
Janelle Peters (10:24):
That's a good point. The word reminds you
because sometimes, or even justrecognizing that these are
things we might already do, butwithout the name of, oh, this is
an automatic place. Like wemight all put our remote in the
same place every day, or dothese things in different ways,
but when we talk about it as astrategy, and label it as a
strategy, then we can think of,oh, what I else use this for in
(10:46):
life? Like how else can I applythis strategy to make my life
simpler? Which is all that we'retrying to do.
A lot of brain training isreducing overwhelm and kind of
making life day to day life lessstressful, reducing stressors
and making it simpler forourselves because there's a lot
going on and there's a lot toremember. There's a lot to pay
attention to.
Amy Bujak (11:05):
Yeah. And even like things like how do you schedule
things? Right? We might sort ofalready do that, but depending
on where someone's likecognition might be at, and we
also probably take for grantedhow much cognitive effort
actually goes into that. So ifyou have an appointment that you
have to get to and you'vewritten that down, part of the
(11:27):
scheduling is also remembering,okay, this is the time my
appointment's at.
How am I getting there? How muchtime do I need to get there? Do
I need to account for likeaccidents on the road or with
transit extra travel time?What's the parking situation
like? Do I need to pay forparking before I get in there?
If the appointment is months inadvance, do I need to set
(11:50):
reminders to make sure that Iremember to go to the
appointment when it comes up?Like there's a little bit more
cognitive effort that goes intoit than we sort of realize it.
Paul Cruz (12:02):
Most examples really show how accessible and
practical these tools can be butI imagine not every strategy
works for everyone. How do youpersonalize that? How do you
tailor strategies to differentcognitive strengths and
challenges? Do you use anyassessments or participant
feedback to personalize thesupport? And how do you support
(12:24):
individuals who may be resistantor unsure of their abilities?
Janelle Peters (12:29):
That's a good question. Yeah, it is very true.
And we do definitely like nostrategy is going to work for
everyone and everyone kind oftakes different things from all
of our sessions. Everybody isdifferent. And so then the
strategies they use are going tobe different.
And the one of the ways wepersonalize it is by offering
kind of a wide variety ofstrategies based on different
strengths. So we say these areall the strategies and then
(12:52):
people discuss what haspreviously worked for them or
what isn't working for them. Anda lot of the personalization
comes through conversations andfeedback of trying it out,
seeing if it worked. We do havean assessment and we do tend to
start off the programs withthat, but our groups are a very
open format of like drop informat. So it makes it harder to
(13:13):
have that standardized piece,but we have really valued like
those open discussions of what'sworking, what's not, because
often people will learn fromeach other in those as well.
Because people will see, oh,that didn't work for you. What
did you do differently? What didyou do instead? And then they
say, I tried this. And so it's alot of peer to peer learning as
well.
Amy Bujak (13:30):
Yeah. And we use a few different, types of, I
guess, like media would be theright word. So like using like
videos so that can be a form oflike role playing so that people
can actually like watch it inaction. If there's like a video
that's applicable for that aswell as some activities or even
the games sometimes, right? Likeif we're talking about looking
(13:55):
at things from like a differentpoint of view and taking a
different perspective, If youhave, like, a physical, like,
board game or handheld game,like, we use the example with
the game rush hour, which iskind of, square parking lot, and
you're trying to get a car outof the parking lot, but you have
to move all the other littlepieces around to be able to do
(14:16):
that.
Literally just shifting theboard to look at it from a
different perspective. Or do youneed to walk away and come back
later with a fresh set of eyesso that maybe you've been
staring at it too long? Allkinds of different problems in
our lives, sometimes we need totake that step back, walk away
(14:36):
from it, and then come back withwhether we've slept on it
overnight. We've maybe askedsomebody else for help, all
those kinds of things. Soproviding different ways for
people to see that in action isa tool that we definitely
utilize a lot and like feedback,especially from other people as
to like what is working for youin the group.
(14:57):
What would you like to see moreof? Do we want to spend more
time talking about this orworking on this or have another
activity to put this into actionand things like that?
Janelle Peters (15:07):
As well with, with the games, it's a cool
opportunity to kind of reflectstrengths back to the clients.
Like I see, you know, you say,oh, I see that you did this in
order to, kind of get throughthat game or like what worked
for you in the game. And thenthey will see for themselves,
like was able to do thatthrough. I was able to pay
attention, for example, by usingmy fidget toy, or I was actually
(15:28):
able to memorize by making anacronym in my head. So then
that's where we'll see thestrength and then we can use the
strength to apply and buildstrategies based off people's
different strengths.
And same thing with, I wanted toaddress the part where you said,
resist. How do we handle,participants who may be
resistant or worry about theirabilities or kind of shut down
at the concept of trying thisout or the strategies out? And I
(15:51):
feel like the brain trainingprogram has a really cool
approach to that, where we don'tforce people or rush people
through the process of believingin themselves or believing in
their brain abilities, becauseit's a different process for
everyone. And so we kind ofallow conversations about those
self doubts. We kind offacilitate that and we sit with
people through maybe theuncomfortable feeling of
(16:13):
addressing some of their fearsor doubts about themselves.
And then through that, peopletend to see for themselves at
their own pace that, oh, hey, Ican do this. And it's okay for
me to try something and then itnot work and I can try it again.
So it's really a patient beingwith the person through this
journey of like rewiring ourbrain and re understanding the
way our brain works.
Amy Bujak (16:33):
Yeah. And just to kind of go off of that as well
is like also as facilitatorsgoing into it, being flexible as
well. So, like, if theconversation and the group kinda
goes in a different directionthan what we had gone in with
the plan of, going with that,see where that takes us. Do we
need to kind of redirect andbring it back, or are we gonna
(16:56):
just completely go in that otherdirection? Because that's what
the majority of the group wouldlike to do.
And just allowing that to alsohappen, like, naturally to like
meet people where they're atthat day. Right? We don't have
to follow this set plan of whatwe had. What does the group
need? What does the group want?
Or that individual if we'redoing like a one on one, right?
(17:17):
What do they need in thatmoment? And also being able to
provide the opportunity forpeople to just observe and
listen. Right. Cause a lot ofpeople will kind of gain a lot
from like that sort of likeosmosis, right?
Like they're just absorbing theinformation and then they can
kind of take that at their ownpace. And we found that even
allowing people to do that,eventually they start actively
(17:38):
participating in the group aswell.
Gino Akbari (17:43):
So there is a real emphasis on meeting people where
they're at. Let's shift gearsand look at what happens when
this kind of work starts to takeroot. What kinds of personal
transformations have you seen inparticipants as a result of
brain training? And are therespecific behaviors or attitudes
that shift as people go throughthe program? Has anyone ever
(18:05):
surprised you with the changesthey made?
Janelle Peters (18:07):
Yeah. The shifts in the beliefs and their
attitudes is part of like one ofthe most impactful parts I think
that we see, and it's a commonshift of, especially in
confidence and in belief aboutthemselves and their ability to
change and grow. A lot of thetime we see initial phrases like
my brain is broken is one thatis hard to hear. It's, it's
(18:30):
something that a lot of peoplefeel because you've grown up in
a system that maybe doesn'taccommodate for your different
ways of thinking or differentways of perceiving things. And
we see a shift from my brain isbroken to, I can actually change
the way I'm thinking.
I can also change the strategiesto help me function in these
different environments. And sowe see this big boost of
(18:51):
confidence that if you trythings and you make mistakes, it
doesn't mean it's a failure. Itmeans you're actually
challenging your brain andgrowing new neural connections.
So we see a very big growthmindset being grown of believing
that if I try hard enough or ifI do things repeatedly, think
growth will happen. And a beliefin ourselves and our ability to
kind of commit to things as welland change the way we think.
Amy Bujak (19:14):
Yeah, definitely. It's huge. I would say like
people's like core beliefs aboutthemselves and their
understanding of way the worldworks and things like that, it
would be a huge thing thatpeople's attitudes and actions,
behaviors kind of alter as well.Because if we're, say,
experiencing a lot of anxiety,so we're tending to isolate. And
(19:35):
now we've gained a little bitmore confidence in our ability
to overcome that.
So anxiety is typically weunderestimate our ability to
cope and overestimate the threator danger that might be there.
And that threat could be, I'mgoing to fail or I'm going to be
rejected. So in the groupenvironment, people are learning
(19:57):
that it's okay to make mistakes.It's nothing's going to be
perfect, right? Nobody'sperfect.
And especially if you're justlearning something for the first
time, why would you be perfectat it? Right. So that in and of
itself helps people thenrealize, okay, I can overcome
this. And like the confidencethat people gain through that
and in their ability to copewith situations, taking that
(20:19):
into like how they face theworld around them and their
belief about the world aroundthem and how they show up in the
world. It's pretty amazing tosee the changes.
Janelle Peters (20:29):
Yeah. One of a quote that we, one of the
clients said to us was, I feelhopeful and strong right now.
Like I have the ability to shapemy mind, kind of like I can grow
around my trauma, grow from itand grow above it. And you hear
that sentiment and you see thatlike these people are believing
in their abilities, but alsothat self awareness of like,
(20:50):
this is understand myself and Ican change things about my
environment. I can kind of havethat agency and that autonomy
over my circumstances.
And I think that's a really coolpart of what we see.
Paul Cruz (21:02):
It seems like even recognizing existing strategies,
things people were already doingcan be a turning point. What's
the emotional impact of namingvalidating something someone
already does? And how do youhelp people recognize and
celebrate these small victories?
Amy Bujak (21:22):
Yeah. That's that's a really good question. So I know
even for myself, it's like ifwe're doing something and we
just kind of do it, but don'tnecessarily think of it as,
like, a skill, it's justsomething you do because you do
it. Being able to, like,identify it and label it as this
is a strategy, this is a skillcan be really empowering in
(21:44):
people realizing they're morethan they think they're more
capable of more than they think.Right?
So that sense of empowerment canthen filter into the other
aspects of their life and howthey're showing up for
themselves and for other people,for the people around them, and
they're in differentenvironments. Yeah.
Janelle Peters (22:04):
And I think we often will over focus as humans,
especially just on the negativeand what are we doing wrong?
What have I done wrong today? Orwhat have I not done? And this
is a Brain training is a coolopportunity to refocus on what
have I done right? And what am Idoing right?
How am I supporting myself? Andwhen we can label something
(22:25):
someone's already doing as likea skill that's been trying, that
is being taught and it's aresearch based kind of strategy,
not only does it make kind ofrecognize that strength there,
but it also normalizes theexperience that we all need
support. We all need differentstrategies to manage life. It's
very overwhelming at times. Sokind of seeing that this is a
strategy that you've come upwith on your own to manage life,
(22:47):
and this is something thatyou've created and been creative
about, I think it's a cool wayto build that self awareness and
that confidence.
Yeah.
Gino Akbari (22:58):
And moments like that can reshape someone's
entire self perception. Andspeaking of reshaping, I wanted
to explore how the group formatinfluences the process. In what
ways does the group formatfoster community, belonging, and
mutual learning? What'ssomething you've seen happen in
group that couldn't havehappened one in one?
Amy Bujak (23:19):
I would say it like there's the normalizing and
validating from like a peerlevel as the facilitator.
Unfortunately, there'sinherently that sort of
authority figure power over asmuch as we try to de center that
or minimize that as much as wecan, it's just sort of
inherently there. So being ableto have that validation and that
(23:41):
normalization from a peer levelcan really be helpful in people
understanding like they're notalone in what they're going
through and that there are waysto overcome some of the
struggles and the challengesthat they might be experiencing.
Just a huge part of it.
Janelle Peters (23:58):
Yeah. The conversations, I feel it breaks
a lot of the shame down of, youknow, I feel shameful because I
find this thing hard or I findit hard to remember to do my
laundry every Sunday. I find itvery hard to do that. And it's
taking away that shameassociated with some of these
things. And then being able todiscuss as a group and say, oh,
that really, yeah, that's sohard for me.
(24:20):
What do you do? One of thequotes from our clients was
about the social element ofgroups. He said socializing with
people that other people feelthe same way. The one thing I
learned that I wasn't the onlyone, it made me feel that I
could do it because, you know,six, seven other people
discussed the same thing. Theymust be going through that same
thing.
So it made me feel that's notjust me. And I kind of go with
(24:41):
the motto like self help comesfrom helping others. So when I
can do that here, it makes mefeel good. And I, I really love
that self help comes fromhelping others piece of being
able to share what works for youand help someone else.
Gino Akbari (25:00):
That's a way of creating a safe environment.
It's in numbers.
Janelle Peters (25:04):
Yeah. Yeah. Hearing a bunch of people
experience the same thing as youis it can be a really powerful
experience, I think.
Amy Bujak (25:10):
Yeah. And it kind of ties back into like the previous
question too of likecelebrating, like, people's wins
and those small successes thatthey start to see and having,
like, a whole group of people beable to do that together and
celebrate each other can bereally empowering as well. So
that like motivation continuesto build and then people have
(25:33):
more, even more successes. Yeah.The teamwork can be
Janelle Peters (25:37):
a really, really cool thing in great brain
training because we're allworking towards a common goal,
like whether it's through Wordleor one of our brain games,
everyone working together, toshare that celebration can be
super connecting and communitybuilding and people recognizing
each other's strengths. A lot ofthe time participants will say,
Hey, that was so good. How didyou come up with that? They'll
hold each other accountable aswell for lots of things. Like
(25:59):
I've had participants kind ofsay, Oh, how's it going with
your trying to sleep better?
Have you been able to sleepbetter? So we kind of all hold
each other accountable. And Iwould say the other really cool
part about group format is youhear so many different
perspectives when you're in agroup. You're hearing people who
have a very different way ofthinking than you do. So kind of
sharing those differentperspectives and hearing someone
(26:21):
who might have very differentlife experiences to you, you can
learn so much in a safe placelike this, where there is that
open discussion and kind ofvulnerable sharing of all of our
strengths and all the thingswe're working through.
Amy Bujak (26:32):
Yeah. As well as like resource sharing. Like, what
have you found that works foryou at school? Maybe I'll try
that too. Right.
So like resources that peoplemight not have been aware of
where you're in a one on one,you probably won't get the as
much variety of that because wemight be limited in our
knowledge of the resources thatare out there and available.
Janelle Peters (26:52):
And sorry, one more thing. I just keep
thinking, because I thinksocial, the social connection in
the community is such a big partbecause as humans, we are social
creatures, but we need thatcommunity element and the social
interaction can be hard attimes, like finding spaces where
you can connect to people andmake friends or make those
connections. And even withsocial anxiety, it's being in a
(27:13):
group format is a great way topractice these social skills in
a setting that feels safe aswell. And I've had clients who
have said, I I've noticed myteamwork's gotten better because
it can be frustrating to workingin a team when someone's not,
you know, like the wholedynamics, but noticing those
ability to regulate my anger ormy frustration and then
communicate effectively. It'slike, we're seeing the skills
(27:36):
being practiced in group as welloutside of group in that way.
Paul Cruz (27:43):
That sense of belonging can be so healing. And
you're planning to take thateven further by bringing in peer
support workers, right? You'reexploring integrating peer
support workers into theprogram. How might this enhance
the experience for participants?And what would a peer support
worker be able to offer thatstaff, Kent?
(28:05):
And do any of your currentfacilitators have lived
experience they draw from?
Amy Bujak (28:10):
Yeah. So, like, an area where we see significant
potential for enrichment of theprogram is the addition of peer
support. Because, again, likewith the staff, unfortunately,
there is inherently that sort ofpower dynamic. Right? That
you're a staff member, you'renot necessarily a participant.
(28:31):
Right? So it can help minimizethat a lot more. And from, like,
a peer level, you can lead withyour experience. Whereas like
the staff self disclosure is atool to be used for sure, but
it's not something that we'releading with. Right?
So we use it and we share ourexperiences and cognitive
(28:54):
remediation in general reallydoes encourage that facilitators
actually share their experienceswith the strategies, with the
tools, but it's just sort of ona different level.
Janelle Peters (29:06):
Yeah. We, we really try to kind of break down
the power imbalance between likea therapist and a client or
whatever that might be, becausewe are all human. We're all
working through differentthings. And I often will share
my own lived experience ingroups because it is so
valuable, our lived experience.A lot of the time we learn most
from that.
Everybody can learn so much fromhaving going through things.
(29:28):
More than a lot of the time,what we learn in textbooks, how
does this apply to my life? Andwhat did I learn from these
different experiences? And peersupport is just a great avenue
to kind of solidify how much wevalue that lived experience
piece because it's so, we see itbeing so impactful. So we would
love to kind of have that on ourteam as well at that at some
point in the future, hopefully.
Gino Akbari (29:52):
So it's not just about skill building, it's about
shared experience and trust.Another way you've fostered that
is through your creativeinitiatives. The Smash the
Stigma art pop ups are powerfulvisual metaphors. What inspired
this initiative and how haveparticipants responded to it?
What's a moment from one ofthese events that really stayed
(30:14):
with you and how do participantsdescribe the emotional impact of
that activity?
Janelle Peters (30:18):
Yeah. So the Smash the Stigma activity was an
art pop up we did at oneprogram, and then it's kind of
grown into a bigger projectwhere essentially to kind of
summarize what we, what theactivity is, is that
participants will write downwords on a big canvas. We've got
a huge canvas and everyone'swriting words that they've been
labeled or that the communityhas been called things that they
(30:41):
don't feel represent them. Andthey want to kind of smash the
power away from those words. Soit might be like lazy, lost
cause, dramatic, anything thatpeople want to rip the power
from.
Amy Bujak (30:53):
Yeah. Manipulative is one that comes up quite a bit.
The sad and unfortunate part isthat a lot of the times, this
part of the project comes supereasily to people. Like, they've
heard so many negative thingsabout themselves, about the
community that they're a partof.
Janelle Peters (31:12):
Yeah. It was, it was an interesting experience
because that was the easy part.And then the next parts you'd
expect to be more light, but alot of the time reflecting
positive things about ourselvescan be kind of uncomfortable
when we've spent so long hearingthese words or saying these
words to them ourselves. Soessentially what we did was
(31:33):
write those words down, fill uppaint balloons or water balloons
with paint, and then throw thewater balloons at the canvas
altogether. And then we wouldcover the paint with new kind of
reaffirming words for what do webelieve about ourselves or what
are some of the things that wevalue and our community's
beliefs and things thatrepresent us.
And I think that it was areally, the shared experience of
(31:56):
processing those each differentstep. It was kind of that
community building that wereally love to see. One word
that came up a lot was relief.We had some one client said, I
feel three pounds lighter. It'slike a physical relief because
sometimes it's scary to addressthese things we're called in the
language, it's harmful and it'shurtful.
And then doing it alone, it canfeel scary. But as a community,
(32:18):
we're all doing it together. Andso we're kind of holding that
space together and to experiencethose collective emotions and
anger and the sadness, but thenreplacing that with that relief
and connection.
Amy Bujak (32:28):
Yeah. It's been interesting because people have
shared too that they haven'tnecessarily felt that they've
been provided the opportunitiesor the space in a safe space to
be able to actually address howthese stigmas impact them and
affect them. And people sharinglike how much emotional release
(32:50):
and how empowering it was tofeel like they were taking back
their identity and like smashingaway the stigma by being able to
like throw the paint balloon.Like some people really toss
that balloon and it is likereally cathartic and really
healing.
Janelle Peters (33:08):
Yeah. It was like a, it was such a mix of
emotions to doing it, which wasreally cool because it was
laughter. There was crying.There was really important
discussions happening throughoutthe whole process. One client
said, these words, we know theyexist and we're called them
constantly, but we neveracknowledge it or how it feels.
It doesn't feel safe to do itwhen we're alone, but when we do
(33:28):
it as a group, it feels like arelief. And the reason we did
this was to kind of spark thoseimportant conversations and
start the conversation ofconfronting what are the harmful
beliefs that people have aroundmental illness, addictions, and
homelessness, and how can wechange the way we as a
collective community discuss andview that because our language
really matters.
Amy Bujak (33:47):
Yeah. Was, it's been cool too, because in some of the
programs that we've gone to andwe've kind of started with this
initiative and that's how theygot to know us through that. And
then that actually led to themwanting to check out like the
brain training program andactually participating in it
that way. So it's been kind ofcool to be able to tie those two
(34:08):
things together and how eachinitiative and program has been
able to provide moreopportunities for people as
well.
Gino Akbari (34:19):
Right. So, I mean, I've heard of visualization and
affirmations, and it's almostlike you guys are giving it a
more tangible material thingthrough art, which is
therapeutic in itself. Somarrying the two is incredible
to hear. I know when I wasyoung, my mom made me write some
stuff that I didn't like on apiece of paper and took me to
the river and we threw it inthere and said goodbye to it. So
(34:42):
it sort of reminds me of that, amore elaborate version of that.
Janelle Peters (34:45):
Yeah. Thank you
Gino Akbari (34:46):
for sharing.
Janelle Peters (34:47):
That's so cool. I love that she did that. It's
it is similar. It's like gettingrid of like writing it out,
confronting the beliefs and likeuncomfortable and then getting
rid of it and replacing it withpositive. I love that.
Amy Bujak (34:58):
Yeah. Yeah. Especially because like in
different like therapeuticmodalities, we talk about like
letting go, but like how andwhat does that look like? So
being able to actually kind ofdo it in a really like tangible
way, like even writing it downand taking it to the river or
ripping it up or whatever itmight be and throwing paint at
the words, right? It's a, it's acool process that allows people
(35:19):
to actually sort of live it.
Janelle Peters (35:21):
And then there is a tangible piece of art
that's in each of the programsthat kind of shows, like
represents this process ofreclaiming these words and,
taking them power away from themand then what they actually want
their community to be seen asand represented by.
Paul Cruz (35:38):
That's such a powerful metaphor visually and
emotionally. Before we wrap up,I'd love to hear what's next for
the brain training program. Whatnew directions or expansions are
you most excited about for thefuture of brain training? Are
there any partnerships, researchprojects, or new tools you're
(35:58):
developing? And how do you planto keep the program participant
centered as it grows?
Amy Bujak (36:03):
So we definitely are wanting to develop more peer
support roles within the programitself. And an area to like
expand and keep the programgoing is we're hoping to train
more of the staff within postmental health so that the
program itself has like abroader reach within the
(36:23):
organization right now. The goalis to eventually be able to
provide to more communitymembers outside of Coast Mental
Health, but we're not quite atthat point yet, but definitely
more staff training, more peersupport.
Janelle Peters (36:40):
Yeah, we have, we have some peer support
workers that, practicum studentshave been shadowing some of our
groups. And so we're partneringwith a lot of the peer support
training right now. And we do amonthly, like we do a workshop
with the peer support trainingas their curriculum. So we're
hoping to train more peersupport workers and also staff
to eventually reach more peoplebecause for the past three
(37:03):
years, it's still only been thethree of us and we are trying to
reach more groups and hopefullykind of increase the impact that
brand training can have becauseit is such a cool program, I
believe. Yeah.
Amy Bujak (37:12):
Yeah. Ideally, I think we'd want to expand the
accessibility of the programbecause a lot of, like, the
cognitive remediation programsaren't necessarily super
accessible right now. I knowthat one individual that I work
with had a brain injury throughsepsis and trying to find a
(37:40):
rehabilitation program thatwould specifically focus on the
the brain was really difficultand was really inaccessible,
whether that was, like, costwise or, like, location wise,
things like that. Right? And alot of the programs have very
(38:03):
specific intake criteria.
So one of the things that'sreally cool about Coast is the
population that we're workingwith. We don't have like an
intake criteria. We don't haveanybody that we rule out. So
again, with like meeting peoplewhere they're at, some of the
programs that we go to, peopleare in active addiction and
(38:25):
we're not saying, no, you can'tparticipate in this. We're just
meeting them where they're at.
And that might be, okay, let'splay Scrabble today. Let's just
build relationship.
Janelle Peters (38:33):
Yeah. It's breaking down barriers to access
to care. So breaking downanything that might stop people
from receiving help or eventhings like making it so that
the content we deliver isaccessible. If it's not going to
be sitting down at a computer,maybe we do play games. And it's
all about being flexible.
And that's, I guess, the personcentered piece is we're hoping
(38:54):
to kind of receive more feedbackand continue to improve on how
we can deliver it. And there'sso many different ways. Like,
there's an unlimited amount ofways that you can practice these
strategies or teach thesestrategies. It doesn't have to
be in one way. We did a researchstudy looking at the program and
kind of asking clients and whatworks and what do you feel the
(39:15):
benefits have been.
So we have a lot ofunderstanding from that. And so
hopefully we're gonna grow fromthat and continue to, I guess,
create a space where people cankind of tell us what's working
and what's not.
Gino Akbari (39:27):
And finally, to bring it full circle, if you
could see one shift in howsociety views cognitive
challenges or mental illness,what would it be? What role do
programs like yours play inshifting that narrative? How can
listeners or the broader publiccontribute to that change?
Amy Bujak (39:43):
I think one thing that we've talked about that we
would love to see a change in islike society's perception of
mental illness and things thatthey maybe don't experience
themselves. Like maybe peopleare seeing things that other
people aren't seeing or hearingthings that other people aren't
hearing, or they're experiencingsymptoms of like a brain injury
(40:06):
or cognitive challenges andsomebody so maybe they're acting
a little bit differently fromwhat somebody would maybe
expect. And to minimize and totake away from that fear
response. I think that would belike one of the biggest changes
that we would love to see.Right.
And taking away the idea that,or changing the idea that and
belief that a mental illness,it's like a weakness or that
(40:29):
people have fixed limitations.Right? Because the idea of
recovery being more on aspectrum instead of it has to
look a certain way.
Janelle Peters (40:39):
Yeah. I think that changing the view from
there's a right way to live andthere's a right way to exist.
There's a wrong way and takingaway judgments because we, all
of our brains are so differentand there's no right or wrong
way to exist in this world.People see something that's
different from them and the waythat they think or the way that
they feel. That judgment piececan be really harmful.
So I think just being moreaccepting and more open to just
(41:01):
hearing from other people andhearing about what your
different experiences arewithout that fear or judgment or
connotation of this is good orbad because everybody's just
different and there is no rightway to do it. Yeah.
Amy Bujak (41:13):
I think we'd love to see more curiosity about other
people's like lived experiences.What has that been like? More
compassion and understanding,more inclusion, really.
Janelle Peters (41:25):
And another another thing I think that would
be really impactful for forpeople to think about the way
our brains work is that ourbrains are constantly evolving
and growing, and there's neverit's never too late to try to
change a habit or to change theway you think. So our brains
have the capacity to change andgrow over the course of our
lifetime. It's not just whenwe're young and we can
(41:46):
constantly grow new neuralconnections. So being able to
think of, think of ourselves asconstantly evolving and that
it's never too late to try tochange the way that you exist or
the way you think.
Amy Bujak (41:57):
Yeah. And I think that the role that the program
serves in shifting thatnarrative towards that is
definitely through, like, agreater understanding of
neuroplasticity and that peopledo have the capacity for change
and for growth and for learningnew things no matter where
(42:18):
they're at or what theirchallenges might be. And that
one thing that I learned evenfor myself in learning more
about cognitive remediation washelping, like, contextualize
somebody's, like, symptoms orbehaviors that they might be
experiencing. So if somebody issuffering from schizophrenia,
(42:39):
there's a lot of cognitivesymptoms that go along with
that, but people tend to focusmore so on the symptoms of,
like, hallucinations, delusions,like things like that. But what
about the fact that somebody'scognition has been impacted and
then then how that shows up forthem?
Right? So people get referred toas, like, lazy because maybe
(43:03):
they're not able to maintaintheir, like hygiene as well.
Actually that could be thatthere's something going on with
their executive functioning.Right. Or with depression,
people experience sort of likebrain fog, which impacts like
memory and attention and thingslike that as well.
So instead of, again, somebodyjust like not paying attention
(43:26):
because they don't care oragain, like they're lazy,
they're whatever the words mightbe. It's shifting the narrative
to, like, okay. Well, like,somebody's memory is being
impacted by this. So what aresome strategies that, like,
would help them through thosetimes? Right?
Same thing with anxiety. I mean,if you're experiencing anxiety,
it's harder to focus and payattention as well. Right? So
(43:48):
like, are some tools and somestrengths? So being able to like
shift the narrative from what'swrong with you to what have your
experience has been.
Janelle Peters (43:58):
And that shift can be done through one on one
work. But also these groupdiscussions and things like this
coming on this podcast and justtalking about it and creating
more conversation to validateand normalize everyone's
experience and kind of take awaythat shame that might come with
having a hard time with keepingup with life or memorizing
things. It's stripping the shameaway and having more open
(44:20):
conversations about what's goingon for me, what are the
challenges I'm having, and howcan I make it easier for myself?
Yeah.
Amy Bujak (44:26):
And like how the listeners or broader public can
contribute to that change, thinkis, again, like we were saying
before, with, like, curiosityand openness and self learning
and wanting to, like, know moreabout other people's experiences
and what that might be like andbeing able to, like, seek the
information to provide a greaterunderstanding of that instead of
(44:49):
just, like, a fear basedresponse from what the media
might be representing. Yeah.Getting away
Janelle Peters (44:54):
from black and white thinking and thinking
about things in a nuanced waythat there are many ways to
exist and being curious abouteach other and ourselves, like
what is working for me and whatisn't, being honest about, you
know, what struggles do I haveand taking away the shame when
we're thinking about ourselvesas well.
Amy Bujak (45:10):
Yeah, and this might be a bit of a shameless plug,
but also being able tocontribute to programs like ours
so we can keep providing theseopportunities for people as
well, right? Because our programis 100 donor funded.
Paul Cruz (45:27):
Thank you so much, Amy and Janelle, for coming
over.
Janelle Peters (45:30):
Thank you. Thank you so much for having us. We
really appreciate this and it'sso cool, this platform you've
created. You're doing a lot ofthe work that we're talking
about right now by just havingthese conversations.
Gino Akbari (45:43):
Thank you so much to the team from Coast Mental
Health's Brain Training Programfor joining us today and for the
powerful work you do every dayto help people reclaim
confidence, strengthen cognitiveskills and reconnect with the
community. If there's onetakeaway from today's
conversation, it's this. Ourbrains are capable of change.
(46:04):
Growth isn't just possible. It'salready happening in small
meaningful ways every time weuse a new strategy.
Reach out for support or reframehow we see ourselves.
Paul Cruz (46:14):
Whether you've experienced cognitive
challenges, supported someonewho has or are simply curious
about how we learn and adapt, wehope this episode reminded you
that you are not alone and thathealing doesn't have to look
like a solo journey.
Gino Akbari (46:31):
If you enjoyed this conversation, please rate, share
it, subscribe, and leave areview on your favorite podcast
app.
Paul Cruz (46:38):
If you have any questions, ideas, or stories
you'd like to share, feel freeto contact us. Our web site is
neurodiversityvoices.com. Pleasefill out our listener survey
form. We'd love to hear fromyou.
Gino Akbari (46:53):
Till next time, take care, stay curious, and
keep celebrating the beauty ofdiverse minds.
Paul Cruz (46:59):
Thanks for listening to the Neurodiversity Voices
podcast.
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