Transformative Journeys: Navigating Power Dynamics with Stas & Lea From Spring Up Collective

Transformative Journeys: Navigating Power Dynamics with Spring Up Collective

 

In this inspiring episode from the Power Dynamic Podcast hosted by Dr. Amanda Aguilera, Stas and Leander from Spring Up Collective discuss their organization's journey. Spring Up focuses on transformative and restorative justice, equitable power navigation, and conflict resolution; cultivating a culture of consent & liberty for all. The discussion emphasizes the 2-3 year long orientation process of becoming a full partner of the collective, internal practices mirroring external teachings, and extensive preparation of new members. Key themes include decentralization, mindfulness, generational perspectives on power, community empowerment, and integrating somatic practices. This episode highlights resources, personal stories, and the significance of collective responsibility in achieving societal transformation.

 

Leander (they/he), Stas (they/them), and shaïna (they/them) founded Spring Up in 2013-2014 to build a community of practice embodying consent and liberation within our relationships, creative practices, and daily lives. For 10 years, Spring Up has used fiction, art, role play, and community education to popularize the skills and frameworks necessary to be free together. We have grown into a collective of 12 creatives, care workers, liberatory educators, transformative justice practitioners, and an alumni community of over 1500 people.

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Spring Up hosts liberatory learning spaces through online classes at bluelight academy of the liberatory arts, print materials and curriculum, retreats, and coaching. We are a worker coop with 9 other members on the journey to co-ownership: Mara, Brianna, Gaya, rj, Thanh, Amanda, Kai, Juli, and Natasha. Our core values are Consent, Accountability, and Transformation. 

00:00 Welcome to the Power Dynamic Podcast

01:36 Introducing Lea and Stas from Spring Up

03:06 Founding and Evolution of Spring Up Collective

05:26 Training and Internal Practices

09:13 Navigating Power and Conflict

11:43 The Role of Structure in Decentralized Power

17:28 Mindfulness and Social Change

18:41 The Importance of Grief and Acceptance

20:52 Embracing Collective Responsibility

21:46 The Power of Group Transformation

24:14 Intentional Communities and Personal Growth

26:04 The Role of Collective Action in Personal Development

32:49 Navigating Leadership and Power Dynamics

35:48 Spring Up: Practicing Collective Liberation

41:50 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

 

 

Fall 2024 Power Conscious Authentic Leadership: https://rightuseofpower.org/event/power-conscious-authentic-leadership-2/

Spring Up: https://www.timetospringup.org/

Episode Transcript

(00:05):
Hello, and welcome to the power dynamic podcast.
I'm your host, Dr.
Amanda Aguilera.
I'm executive director with the Right Use of Power Institute, and I do research writing and facilitating in social power dynamics.
In this podcast, we bring to light what often gets left in the shadows, personal, social, and systemic power dynamics.

(00:28):
We get to have discussions with some of the most brilliant hearts and minds and fields like leadership development, diversity, equity, and belonging, conflict resolution, ethics, communication, and social action. 7 00:00:41,649.999 --> 00:00:48,210.001 We explore with you the nuances of the different types of power and bring to light how we can best navigate power together.

(00:48):
Our deepest intention is to create spaces where we can collaboratively learn together what it means to use power consciously and how to move toward right relationship across time.
Difference while also promoting wellbeing for ourselves and for the greater good.
Before we get started, please be sure to hit the like and subscribe button so you won't miss any of our future episodes.

(01:09):
Each episode builds on each other so it can be helpful to follow along.
And a way for you to show support for us is to leave a review.
Wherever you're listening to this podcast, we value your feedback.
So let's dive in and learn how we can transform our relationships to power and each other. 15 00:01:36,52.244897959 --> 00:01:43,192.24489796 So today I'm so excited to be talking with Lea and Stas from Spring Up. 16 00:01:44,102.24389796 --> 00:01:44,762.24389796 Welcome. 17 00:01:45,242.24489796 --> 00:01:48,2.24489796 Thank you for joining us on the podcast today. 18 00:01:48,243.24489796 --> 00:01:48,863.24489796 Thanks, Amanda. 19 00:01:48,883.24489796 --> 00:01:49,593.24489796 Great to be here. 20 00:01:49,713.24489796 --> 00:01:51,613.24489796 We're so excited for this conversation. 21 00:01:51,643.24489796 --> 00:01:52,483.24489796 Can't wait to dig in. 22 00:01:53,672.24389796 --> 00:02:07,292.24289796 Yeah, it's been a, um, an inspirational thing for me to watch your organization kind of grow over the years and the things that you're offering and. 23 00:02:08,312.24489796 --> 00:02:28,262.24489796 in different spaces like restorative justice and transformative justice and a lot of different spaces and I know that you're doing a lot of work, um, to kind of disturb and move the conversation about power in a different direction than dominant culture has traditionally held it. 24 00:02:28,902.24489796 --> 00:02:42,243.24489796 So I'd love to hear a little bit about you and your work and spring up, um, And, yeah, how are you moving in power these days? Oh, great question. 25 00:02:42,243.24489796 --> 00:02:51,563.24489796 Well, I really appreciate the recognition and I love the kind of mutuality of following each other and knowing about how things evolve over time. 26 00:02:51,573.24489796 --> 00:03:02,178.24389796 I think that's A really strong indicator of relating to power differently is really seeing change and adaptation rather than stagnation and kind of sticking to the status quo. 27 00:03:02,198.24489796 --> 00:03:05,398.24489796 So I think that's always a joy to watch and participate in. 28 00:03:05,768.24489796 --> 00:03:07,778.24489796 But yeah, so my name is Stas. 29 00:03:07,778.24489796 --> 00:03:11,58.24489796 I use they, them pronouns and Lee and I. 30 00:03:11,728.24489796 --> 00:03:17,158.24489796 alongside one of my closest friends since we went to Montessori school together. 31 00:03:17,158.24489796 --> 00:03:25,598.24489796 So one of my closest friends since we were two and three years old, the three of us co founded Spring Up Collective 11 years ago now. 32 00:03:26,528.24489796 --> 00:03:49,48.24489796 And we've been on, yeah, it's been quite the journey of adaptation, of evolution, Um, and of bringing other people in, I think having such a strong sense of family at the core of our group, whether it's, you know, chosen family of Shaina, who I've just, you know, grown up with and known my whole life and their whole family. 33 00:03:49,398.24489796 --> 00:03:56,398.24489796 And then Leander and I have been a couple, uh, the entire time and a little bit before we started the organization. 34 00:03:56,708.24489796 --> 00:03:58,98.24489796 Um, and. 35 00:03:58,528.24489796 --> 00:04:05,8.24489796 Now we have a larger collective with about 10 active members total, including ourselves. 36 00:04:05,418.24489796 --> 00:04:30,383.24489796 Um, and so it's been quite the journey to evolve to meet the needs of the three of us and our visions, but also to shift to incorporate what's possible when you're moving as a larger group and taking into account the You know, desires, needs, activations, challenges, boundaries, capacities of a larger group of people in dialogue with a broader ecosystem. 37 00:04:31,108.24489796 --> 00:04:31,508.24489796 Yeah. 38 00:04:31,508.24489796 --> 00:04:50,348.24389796 And I would say as a, you know, training and consulting and educational organization, um, we've supported, you know, thousands of people in building their skills around navigating power equitably and handling conflict within community and practicing organizational equity for us. 39 00:04:50,348.24389796 --> 00:04:57,738.24489796 It always starts with practicing it internally and navigating that with each other within our collective. 40 00:04:57,738.24489796 --> 00:05:04,198.24489796 And we, um, Really believe in practicing the skills that you're supporting others in. 41 00:05:04,218.24489796 --> 00:05:10,368.24489796 Um, which I think sounds obvious, but isn't necessarily intrinsic to teaching or consulting. 42 00:05:10,388.24489796 --> 00:05:19,513.14489796 Um, but so for us, if we're teaching kind of like 201 sort of topic, we feel that as a group, we need to be kind of. 43 00:05:19,773.24489796 --> 00:05:23,103.24489796 on the 401, you know, like really putting that into practice. 44 00:05:25,502.24489796 --> 00:05:50,297.24489796 I'm curious, oh, there's so many questions and directions I want to go in, because I know that, um, having a collective with, kind of, and sharing power, and that role power, is such a challenge, and I also am interested in this, kind of, how you prepare people for that 401, the people that are going to be the facilitators. 45 00:05:50,427.24489796 --> 00:05:55,377.24489796 Um, we're kind of actually actively in that conversation right now. 46 00:05:56,157.24489796 --> 00:06:03,823.24489796 It's a collective practice, but I'm curious how you go about that in an organized Oh, what a good question. 47 00:06:03,913.24489796 --> 00:06:07,953.24389796 Um, and it's taken a lot of iteration to get where we're at. 48 00:06:08,343.24389796 --> 00:06:17,228.24389796 But right now, our kind of orientation process actually takes two to three years to complete with a new team member. 49 00:06:17,628.24389796 --> 00:06:41,898.24389796 Um, and so in the first year, we're really focusing on understanding the curriculum and having the experience of being in meetings that are structured in alignment with our curriculum, um, and really building confidence in knowing who we're working with and what challenges they're dealing with and what we tend to tell them about those things. 50 00:06:42,338.24289796 --> 00:06:58,938.24389796 The second year is actually getting into the why and more of we go through the history of our collective, the history of the conflicts we've gone through and how those conflicts shaped the curriculum and policies that exist. 51 00:06:58,938.24389796 --> 00:07:37,483.24389796 So oftentimes people will say, Oh, I've experienced the outcome of that within how we operate, but I didn't really understand the why it was so important and like the idea that we teach that conflict can be a generative force for design and deepening relationships, being able to trace the kind of legacies and the path that got us to some of the things that people are so excited to experience with us is realizing that it's not like we just had this moment of gnosis where we knew what the right thing to do was, but in fact, we did something that was not great. 52 00:07:37,703.24289796 --> 00:07:39,233.24289796 We had tension around it. 53 00:07:39,243.24289796 --> 00:07:42,493.24389796 We often spent years talking about those tensions. 54 00:07:42,818.24389796 --> 00:07:46,278.24389796 We made some decisions based on what we learned through that process. 55 00:07:46,618.24389796 --> 00:07:49,178.24389796 And that's the container that you're experiencing now. 56 00:07:49,228.24389796 --> 00:07:59,108.24289796 So we really spend that second year kind of doing that archival work and unpacking what made us generate what we're currently operating within. 57 00:07:59,428.24289796 --> 00:08:05,958.24389796 Um, and then the third year, which is optional, is the pathway to becoming a co owner of the worker co op. 58 00:08:05,978.24389796 --> 00:08:34,738.24389796 So you have the option to be a facilitator, work with clients, on kind of a case to case basis, but if you'd like to co own the organization alongside us, then there's a process of understanding the administrative level, the legal level, kind of the design process that went into why we're structured the way that we are, and Like legal implications of that incorporation and, you know, understanding equity, understanding budgeting. 59 00:08:34,968.24389796 --> 00:08:38,38.24289796 We actually just did a session with the team earlier today. 60 00:08:38,38.24289796 --> 00:08:52,908.24389796 That's on the path to becoming co owners where we talked about life design and, uh, options when it comes to incorporation and the trade offs and benefits to each of those and how that shapes what's possible within your personal budgeting. 61 00:08:53,218.24389796 --> 00:09:00,778.24389796 Um, and so that third year is really getting the ins and outs of what it means to join us on that path. 62 00:09:01,38.24289796 --> 00:09:06,88.24389796 And then once you complete that, you have the option to, to be a full partner and co own the business. 63 00:09:06,418.24389796 --> 00:09:09,378.24389796 So that's kind of the three year journey that people go through. 64 00:09:11,307.24389796 --> 00:09:11,967.24389796 Beautiful. 65 00:09:12,367.24389796 --> 00:09:32,157.24489796 I'm struck by the intentional sharing of conflict and harm and the humble taking of responsibility and learning and that requires a level of maturity that. 66 00:09:33,187.24489796 --> 00:09:40,727.24489796 It may not get in two years, you know? Um, so yeah, I'm curious. 67 00:09:42,137.24489796 --> 00:10:00,927.24489796 I'm sure there's like internal processes you have too for like dealing with the tensions and conflicts that come up because it feels like for us like we're constantly kind of, the evolution of it feels like we're kind of recreating it all the time in a way. 68 00:10:01,712.24489796 --> 00:10:10,252.24489796 Um, which can be destabilizing, but also just makes it feel like it's alive, like it's a living organism or something. 69 00:10:10,822.24489796 --> 00:10:19,422.24489796 Um, and the curriculum too, like a living curriculum, but it takes a lot of, a lot of structure and strength for that too. 70 00:10:19,888.24489796 --> 00:10:23,378.24489796 It really is like a collective meditation process. 71 00:10:23,388.24489796 --> 00:10:44,958.24489796 I think mindfulness is something that's important to a lot of us and just knowing when to let things go off track and knowing when to kind of rein it in and impose some structure and noticing that I think, yeah, over the years, you know, we have cycles and seasons that we impose within the year where we're like, okay, this is a time of year that we're going to. 72 00:10:45,398.24489796 --> 00:10:51,48.24489796 have this recurring conversation about strategic planning so it doesn't spill out into every month. 73 00:10:51,58.24489796 --> 00:10:55,858.24439796 Um, I think that we do create a lot of structure around also the programs we offer. 74 00:10:55,858.24439796 --> 00:11:01,858.24389796 So we operate on a kind of modified academic calendar, which helps to impose. 75 00:11:02,313.24489796 --> 00:11:19,253.24389796 some spaces to like starting and ending a term, I think setting intentions and reflection, um, and differentiating between that and implementation kind of helps people know that there will be a space to really focus on feedback, but it's also okay to just focus on what you're doing. 76 00:11:19,868.24489796 --> 00:11:20,498.24489796 For a while. 77 00:11:20,818.24489796 --> 00:11:27,828.24489796 Um, and then I think because we, you know, we learned so much from our students and our clients and I think that's always a space of constant growth. 78 00:11:27,838.24489796 --> 00:11:40,338.24389796 So yeah, I think that it's, uh, kind of in many ways, our primary little like living experiment it's a beautiful experiment. 79 00:11:41,494.24289796 --> 00:11:41,744.24289796 Yeah. 80 00:11:41,744.24289796 --> 00:12:15,479.24389796 I know you were talking about, um, where does power feel present and just one thing with what Lee said was that something that I just keep returning to so much is that decentralization and sharing power can require more structure and intentions and containers to work within than a very clear hierarchy where everyone knows who does what and that oftentimes when we first started doing this and a lot of our clients Let's get rid of all this structure and just be in it with one another. 81 00:12:15,749.24389796 --> 00:12:18,659.24389796 And then things are implicit and beneath the surface. 82 00:12:18,679.24389796 --> 00:12:23,909.24389796 And there it's hard to talk about them because it's just how like emotionally attuned to them. 83 00:12:23,909.24389796 --> 00:12:29,974.14389796 Are you? And I find that you need almost more structure to be able to. 84 00:12:30,104.24389796 --> 00:12:34,464.24389796 equitably distribute power, um, and talk about it explicitly. 85 00:12:34,754.24389796 --> 00:12:41,644.24289796 And that's always such a tension with it feeling like structure is tied to power over in our bodies. 86 00:12:42,4.24289796 --> 00:12:48,454.24289796 And yet it is a necessary framework for actually practicing power with one another. 87 00:12:48,734.24389796 --> 00:12:54,914.24389796 And I always think about something that a friend and collaborator of ours, Lucy, shared. 88 00:12:55,199.24389796 --> 00:13:09,219.24389796 Um, she's really so inspired by Harriet Tubman, and she's always talking about how the underground railroad really required so much structure, um, in order for people to get free together. 89 00:13:09,499.24389796 --> 00:13:23,279.24389796 And the idea that structure is only something to have power over people and reinforce hierarchy is really erasing of how much structure has been present within our freedom struggles and collaboration. 90 00:13:23,609.24389796 --> 00:13:31,879.24389796 Um, and that it's up to us to reclaim that as a necessary toolkit that is not necessarily the master's tools. 91 00:13:31,879.24389796 --> 00:13:40,999.24389796 It depends on how it's used and what mechanisms are put in place, but the concept of structure itself is not inherently oppressive. 92 00:13:42,208.24389796 --> 00:13:44,968.24489796 yes, yes, yes, yes. 93 00:13:45,18.24289796 --> 00:13:56,508.24389796 I wish, I'm just going to clip that and I want to just play it on social media over and over and over again because it's like, there's so often, and I see this generational difference too. 94 00:13:56,518.24389796 --> 00:13:56,698.24389796 Like. 95 00:13:57,313.24389796 --> 00:14:02,203.24389796 Um, the younger generation wants to just flatten the hierarchy and thinks that that is the answer. 96 00:14:02,603.24389796 --> 00:14:11,473.24389796 And it just, it just, it, every time it causes more destruction and ethical violation and harm and, yeah. 97 00:14:11,543.24289796 --> 00:14:20,73.24389796 And the, and then the alternative, the only alternative in dominant culture is that power over structure. 98 00:14:20,113.24389796 --> 00:14:24,353.24389796 And I see in organizations this kind of generational tension. 99 00:14:24,813.24389796 --> 00:14:35,563.24389796 Between, you know, kind of get in line, young people, and young people being like, I don't want to respect any of the power structures because of how much harm has been caused. 100 00:14:36,503.24389796 --> 00:14:40,643.24389796 Um, I think it's one of the biggest issues of our time right now. 101 00:14:40,779.24389796 --> 00:14:41,239.24289796 I agree. 102 00:14:41,249.24289796 --> 00:14:41,559.24289796 Absolutely. 103 00:14:41,879.24389796 --> 00:14:52,479.24389796 I think what's really inspiring though is just how many people are pushing for worker rights and worker ownership and this big push towards unionization that we're seeing happening. 104 00:14:52,759.24389796 --> 00:15:02,289.24389796 I think it's really a privilege for us to be some of the consultants that are brought into some of those conflicts, you know, and I can absolutely recognize those patterns. 105 00:15:02,289.24389796 --> 00:15:29,254.24389796 And I think often the different sides have a tendency to sort of make a caricature of the where it's like You just want, you know, to wield your power and be unchecked and you don't want to hear my feedback and then, like, you just want to throw out everything that works and, you know, just sit around and talk and process, um, and not get work done. 106 00:15:29,274.24389796 --> 00:15:46,609.24389796 And I think that's where, uh, Third party coming in and using some of these kind of conflict mediation and, um, resolution skills can really help to like, sometimes also people need a consultant to say, I'm hearing this. 107 00:15:46,629.24389796 --> 00:15:47,569.24389796 I'm hearing this. 108 00:15:48,229.24289796 --> 00:15:59,624.14389796 Could we try this? You know, and like, can we take the first step on the path? And that's where I think we find if groups are actually stuck in being in opposition to each other, or they are actually Yeah. 109 00:15:59,864.24389796 --> 00:16:07,474.24389796 You know, often people have shared values and come into the same organizations because they want some of the same outcomes. 110 00:16:07,864.24389796 --> 00:16:19,984.24389796 And so if they're willing to try something that includes sharing power and to keep some of the things that are working, um, usually there is a more pragmatic path forward. 111 00:16:20,304.24289796 --> 00:16:22,54.24389796 And then often when people are like. 112 00:16:22,409.24389796 --> 00:16:25,329.24389796 No, the trust is so low that we can't try something new. 113 00:16:25,789.24389796 --> 00:16:32,519.24389796 That is when it's like, well, okay, we need to figure out if we can keep collaborating or what this organization looks like moving forward then. 114 00:16:32,539.24289796 --> 00:16:34,449.24289796 But yeah, I think a lot of groups are in that. 115 00:16:35,109.24389796 --> 00:16:52,753.243898 Place in this moment and I can say that there is a path forward and it also depends on the people and the formation and Sometimes it it can be very painful but it can also be really beautiful to have people branch off and make new organizations and Yes. 116 00:16:52,929.242898 --> 00:16:57,349.242898 into different formations that Honor what you know different parties want. 117 00:16:57,349.342898 --> 00:16:57,839.342898 Yeah. 118 00:16:58,29.343898 --> 00:16:59,999.343898 And those are hard things. 119 00:17:01,69.343898 --> 00:17:27,439.243898 You know, that branching off implies death and birth happening at the same time, which I think is another kind of issue of our times, is how do we honor both of those processes at the same time? And do we have the skills for that? Can we be in grief together while we're building something new? I think that's a lost art Yeah among many. 120 00:17:27,465.243898 --> 00:17:35,265.243898 And I'm, you know, I know a lot of the listeners of this probably in like members of your community, like really value mindfulness. 121 00:17:35,305.243898 --> 00:17:44,845.243898 And I think this is where we just see like personal and interpersonal mindfulness skills just operating on like a very, very advanced level. 122 00:17:44,845.243898 --> 00:17:46,885.242898 And we were fortunate to come into this. 123 00:17:46,885.242898 --> 00:17:55,280.243898 We took a class in college, um, from Gretchen Steedle, who, Does this sort of like mindful approach to social change. 124 00:17:55,280.243898 --> 00:18:04,490.243898 And so we actually, you know, created the first formation of Spring Up as a design assignment within that. 125 00:18:04,520.243898 --> 00:18:08,700.242898 And have just been doing our iterations for the 11 years since then. 126 00:18:08,700.242898 --> 00:18:10,750.242898 And that's what got us to this point. 127 00:18:11,100.242898 --> 00:18:17,680.243898 Um, but Gretchen has a book, um, Conscious Social Change that people might appreciate. 128 00:18:18,30.243898 --> 00:18:19,60.243898 Yeah, definitely. 129 00:18:19,60.243898 --> 00:18:30,210.243898 And I think it's, it's, it's, it's The, the degree to which breath work and somatic practice has just been so critical to being able to do this with other people. 130 00:18:30,480.243898 --> 00:18:40,110.242898 It's like an indispensable toolkit to be able to like own what is mine to handle within the difficult work that we're doing together. 131 00:18:40,470.243898 --> 00:18:43,800.243898 Um, and I think what's so deeply tied to that is grief work. 132 00:18:43,810.243898 --> 00:18:49,90.243898 And I, I, I just couldn't emphasize enough the importance of developing. 133 00:18:49,440.243898 --> 00:18:56,610.243898 Uh, a healthy relationship with grief and with discomfort and that both of those things are so suppressed. 134 00:18:57,150.243898 --> 00:19:04,190.243898 within our society and yet are such critical components to growth and evolution. 135 00:19:04,980.243898 --> 00:19:10,330.242898 You can't truly transform unless you're ready to let go and grieve. 136 00:19:10,620.243898 --> 00:19:17,840.143898 And you also can't truly transform unless you're ready to hold the discomfort of ambiguity and unknowingness. 137 00:19:18,200.243898 --> 00:19:27,800.243898 And both of those are very tricky things that, like, really takes practice on the small scale to be able to hold that on a large scale. 138 00:19:28,110.243898 --> 00:19:35,950.242898 Um, and I just, I couldn't emphasize enough how much acceptance is tied to both of those things. 139 00:19:35,950.242898 --> 00:19:39,250.243898 I think a lot about how often when we're working with groups. 140 00:19:39,745.243898 --> 00:19:50,725.243898 There's this like urgency, this need to do more, more, more that is underpinning the inability to sit with the tensions that are present and actually see the root causes and the paths forward. 141 00:19:51,95.243898 --> 00:19:55,495.242898 And that urgency often is tied to a lack of acceptance of where we are. 142 00:19:55,765.242898 --> 00:20:05,405.242898 The reason why we have to work so quickly is because we're attached to a concept of what's possible for us. 143 00:20:06,200.243898 --> 00:20:47,790.243898 Separate from accepting where we currently are and accepting where we currently are is critical to both appreciating what's present there and being open to the possibility of what could change and that feels like kind of the common ground between the opposing forces that we've been talking about is like what does it mean to accept where we are and also hold the possibility of the future which is what you were just talking about Amanda of the kind of death doula Kind of supporting the systems that are currently in place in coming to an end, as well as the midwifery of building out the kind of future possibilities that we know are not just for the next generation, but also for our future selves and our current selves. 144 00:20:47,790.243898 --> 00:20:50,120.242898 And I don't know, I could rant about that all day. 145 00:20:50,120.243898 --> 00:20:56,100.243898 I think all the time about what it means for us to live the freedom that we're dreaming about today. 146 00:20:56,330.243898 --> 00:21:02,105.143898 And what's necessary about accepting our current reality and embracing the power we have to shape it. 147 00:21:02,455.243898 --> 00:21:09,245.243898 our reality in order to, to not just see that as something for future generations, but something for us, you know, this evening. 148 00:21:10,279.243898 --> 00:21:10,769.243898 Yes. 149 00:21:11,229.243898 --> 00:21:11,799.243898 Yes. 150 00:21:12,209.243898 --> 00:21:14,309.243898 Available in every moment, actually. 151 00:21:15,419.243898 --> 00:21:16,9.242898 You know. 152 00:21:16,479.243898 --> 00:21:25,409.143898 And it takes so much acceptance, but also like, willingness and appreciation. 153 00:21:25,979.243898 --> 00:21:31,939.243898 An ability to be responsible, like to, to, to know what our responsibility is. 154 00:21:32,589.243898 --> 00:21:43,679.242898 And I think there's so many of us in whatever moment that's unwilling to step into that responsibility to be that present, you know. 155 00:21:44,159.243898 --> 00:21:45,109.243898 It's so interesting. 156 00:21:45,209.243898 --> 00:21:55,209.242898 It's like our, our paths are so similar because Cedar started this as a, started Right Use of Power as a alternative. 157 00:21:55,854.243898 --> 00:22:32,779.243898 Ethics course because all she could find was like do this don't do that lists of rules Which no one ever looks at again after they take their ethics course or whatever And she's like this has to be conscious ethics It has to be are you capable of making the right decision for this moment? For these people in this system in this, you know time and that's a whole other level of responsibility And I, what I find is like, people are reluctant to step into that, you know, and rightly so. 158 00:22:32,889.243898 --> 00:22:33,849.243898 It's a lot. 159 00:22:34,299.243898 --> 00:22:34,939.243898 It's a lot. 160 00:22:35,419.242898 --> 00:22:38,865.243898 And also, what other choice do we have? absolutely. 161 00:22:39,175.243898 --> 00:22:54,435.243898 It takes a lot of work to transform yourself, to be able to practice collective power when most of us have been socialized in a very individualistic competitive way. 162 00:22:54,455.243898 --> 00:23:09,90.243898 And it requires perceiving that often through feedback from the people around you that you're, you know, moving in ways that are maybe unkind or hardheaded, um, and then going on a process. 163 00:23:09,90.243898 --> 00:23:17,30.242898 And I think that therapy can be very helpful, but therapy can be very individualized. 164 00:23:17,390.243898 --> 00:24:13,285.243898 And I think that in conjunction with a lot of people turning to therapy, turning to mindfulness, turning to different, you know, Practices of personal transformation what really excited about holding is those spaces of group transformation where you can, you know, we both have trained in restorative justice and restorative practices and just the wisdom and healing that you can get from being in a circle and offering your story and realizing that other people's stories are sometimes similar, often very different, you know, and I think that there's no amount of personal reflection and kind of navel gazing that can actually get you to the skills and ability to be present with the collective and with, you know, honoring and, um, collaborating with other people. 165 00:24:13,315.242898 --> 00:24:55,880.243898 And I think another book that I would recommend for folks that are interested in that, um, is the cooperative culture handbook, um, that really talks about how when people move into intentional community, which could be co housing or other forms of, um, living together outside of the nuclear family, that it just immediately brings up all of these, you know, what could be trauma responses, what could just be like your stuff, you know, like your, uh, personal baggage, um, gets very activated by being around so many other people with different ways of being and that either you realize that it's not for you. 166 00:24:56,580.243898 --> 00:25:03,280.243898 Or you set upon a process of kind of transforming yourself to be able to be in group process. 167 00:25:03,800.243898 --> 00:25:22,335.243898 Um, and there are, you know, I think that's where learning from people who have actually not just been interested in alternative ways of collaborating, but there are people out there that you can learn from that have been doing this for 30, years. 168 00:25:22,375.243898 --> 00:25:37,215.243898 And I think that that's another thing that I find really inspiring is just that there are actually a, there's a very abundant wealth of resources of how to operate collectively and how to move in different ways. 169 00:25:37,235.242898 --> 00:25:43,355.243898 Um, whether that's in different, faith traditions or different organizing communities. 170 00:25:43,405.243898 --> 00:25:50,665.243898 Um, but I think once people get outside of like being attached to, you know, I can't accept the things, the way that things are. 171 00:25:51,105.243898 --> 00:25:57,795.243898 Um, I've found a lot of peace from just moving into spaces where people are doing things differently. 172 00:25:58,815.242898 --> 00:26:02,925.243898 And I was just rereading a section of let this radicalize you last night. 173 00:26:03,295.243898 --> 00:26:25,750.242898 Um, by Mariam Kaba and Kelly Hayes, and just thinking about, How much organizing and collective action has been such a source of the skill set that I draw on and thinking about collective power and working together to move towards something. 174 00:26:25,750.242898 --> 00:26:29,510.143898 And I think, you know, the title, let this radicalize you being the idea that. 175 00:26:29,750.243898 --> 00:26:35,280.243898 You know, it can be really difficult to find hope in the current conditions that we're living in. 176 00:26:35,350.243898 --> 00:26:45,340.243898 It can be very easy to fall into a sense of cynicism and, well, all I can control is myself and so I guess I can work on me and there's nothing beyond that. 177 00:26:45,340.243898 --> 00:27:16,195.243898 And I think, you know, Mariam has been such a big influence in my own life and thinking about what's possible when we create together and when we, um, you know, Marim is such a, a founder, I think she's founded like a dozen different organizations and is involved in only a few of them now and is just always, you know, talking about how you can make things and they can end and sunset and it's, it's just part of the journey of working with other people to meet the moment. 178 00:27:16,245.243898 --> 00:27:17,985.243898 And I'm also thinking of. 179 00:27:18,70.243898 --> 00:27:38,360.243898 And, you know, the work of Leah Lakshmi Piepzna Samarasinha, especially the book Care Work, and just the way that that's all so tied up in the interdependence that is so core to disability justice and just the idea that we all need each other and the fallacy of being able to meet your own needs, being so tied to privilege. 180 00:27:39,30.243898 --> 00:27:49,990.242898 The way that it's not just about changing the world, but also just being there for each other in the way that those of us who are disabled and neurodivergent know is necessary to survival. 181 00:27:50,10.243898 --> 00:28:03,770.243898 I think that, I don't know, these are folks that have been such a big part of my, continued commitment to collective practice despite the many pains and much discomfort and heartbreak that comes from it. 182 00:28:03,770.243898 --> 00:28:12,850.242898 It also brings up so much possibility and so much hopefulness and so much joy and love that is truly what the human experience is about. 183 00:28:14,19.244898 --> 00:28:14,479.244898 Yeah. 184 00:28:15,659.244898 --> 00:28:31,564.244898 Yeah, I mean, I think the, the individual unwillingness to take responsibility is because we haven't known collective power as it, as just a the default way of being in our culture. 185 00:28:32,264.244898 --> 00:28:41,884.244898 And if we're willing and have the skills to be in collective, uh, then it's a shared responsibility. 186 00:28:41,924.244898 --> 00:28:48,824.244898 It's not like way, it's, yeah, I think that's a, it's a, it's a necessity now. 187 00:28:50,4.244898 --> 00:28:52,454.244898 For us to even do the individual work. 188 00:28:53,284.244898 --> 00:29:00,174.244898 I keep thinking about this idea of being rooted into something bigger than ourselves. 189 00:29:01,324.244898 --> 00:29:18,704.243898 And whether that's the collective, or God, or the earth, or whatever, um, it is for people, but, um, yeah, it's a distinct difference for me when I'm not rooted in something bigger. 190 00:29:19,109.244898 --> 00:29:25,339.244898 When I'm not, in the moment, connected to the bigger thing, whatever that is. 191 00:29:26,119.244898 --> 00:29:31,159.244898 Um, and it's just missing, I feel like. 192 00:29:31,159.244898 --> 00:29:48,674.244898 That's like, you know, loneliness and just isolation and not having enough energy or connections outside of the, you know, nuclear family or the workplace, um, is such a problem for people. 193 00:29:48,704.244898 --> 00:29:54,564.244898 And something that we talk about in our theory of change is making a third space. 194 00:29:54,614.244898 --> 00:30:10,884.244898 And I think that, you know, trainings like y'all's like ours can be, even if they're a pop up, Third space, um, can be such a helpful place for people to combat that isolation. 195 00:30:11,64.244898 --> 00:30:32,574.244898 Um, and also, you know, we've been in Colorado for five years now and not saying that people here are fundamentally different from people anywhere else, but we've been really fortunate to meet some very powerful community builders and just some people whose love language and form of. 196 00:30:33,339.244898 --> 00:30:36,449.244898 organizing is building community. 197 00:30:36,829.244898 --> 00:30:43,359.244898 And I think that, um, yeah, it's really a blessing to know people like that. 198 00:30:43,899.244898 --> 00:30:45,609.244898 And also it is a learnable skill. 199 00:30:45,639.244898 --> 00:30:49,219.244898 You know, there are, um, I think we'll continue our book list. 200 00:30:49,249.244898 --> 00:30:57,289.244898 Um, there's, uh, books like How We Show Up by Mia Birdsong, um, or We Should Get Together. 201 00:30:57,309.244898 --> 00:31:01,729.244898 Um, I forget the name of that author, but we'll, you can add it in the notes. 202 00:31:01,789.244898 --> 00:31:15,229.307398 Um, something, um, But yeah, just that it is possible to feel that loneliness also, and then say, like, I'm going to be the person that brings people together. 203 00:31:15,759.307398 --> 00:31:37,209.307398 Yeah, just last night we, uh, people have been doing this, like, drop in thing where it's, you know, I'm, I made some food, whoever feels like it can drop in between four and nine, and we went to two of those yesterday, and, you know, one of them, there were, I think, 10 of us there around the fireplace just talking about what's been going on in our lives. 204 00:31:37,209.307398 --> 00:31:45,349.306398 And I always think about doing, uh, intimate partner violence intervention and sexual violence intervention and just the isolation that comes with that. 205 00:31:45,409.307398 --> 00:31:57,739.307398 And the rare opportunity to actually have a conversation with someone that's real about what's going on in their life and be able to problem solve with peers around how to navigate that situation. 206 00:31:58,39.307398 --> 00:32:01,939.307398 And I remember last night, just having this moment where someone was struggling with a choice. 207 00:32:02,379.307398 --> 00:32:06,599.307398 that they had upcoming and, you know, just kind of weighing the different options. 208 00:32:06,619.307398 --> 00:32:11,319.306398 And I remember being like, I'm so glad you brought this up and we can all, you know, troubleshoot what to do. 209 00:32:11,319.307398 --> 00:32:17,229.307398 And they were like, Oh, I've been so in my head about this and so stuck with the pressures of the other people around me. 210 00:32:17,229.307398 --> 00:32:24,839.307398 And the fact that none of y'all are in this, you know, situation that I'm involved in is just so helpful to talk through what's going on. 211 00:32:24,869.307398 --> 00:32:32,494.307398 And, oh, What a space that tends to be missing in so many of our lives and is so critical to harnessing the wisdom of community. 212 00:32:33,923.244898 --> 00:32:40,413.244898 Yeah, instead it's go to a therapist and keep it secret between you and your therapist and pay them some money. 213 00:32:40,693.244898 --> 00:32:44,733.242898 Yeah, you know, like that is the, the way right now. 214 00:32:46,94.306398 --> 00:32:47,264.306398 Hey there, listeners. 215 00:32:47,534.306398 --> 00:32:56,564.306398 As we talk about leadership and using power well, I want to pause and let you know about a new program we're offering at the Right Use of Power Institute. 216 00:32:57,364.306398 --> 00:33:06,994.206398 If you're navigating challenging interpersonal dynamics from a leadership position and want to engage with your team with deeper awareness, skill, and integrity, please visit the Right Use of Power Institute website at RightUseofPowerInstitute. 217 00:33:06,994.306398 --> 00:33:07,34.306398 org. 218 00:33:07,594.306398 --> 00:33:11,744.306398 I encourage you to check out the Power Conscious Authentic Leadership Program. 219 00:33:13,4.306398 --> 00:33:32,834.306398 We found that integrating the right use of power concepts and practices into our approach to leadership strengthens our ability to lead with integrity and empathy by enhancing access to our personal power and acknowledging the impact that role and status power have on all of our interactions. 220 00:33:33,424.306398 --> 00:33:36,884.305398 And that's what the Power Conscious Authentic Leadership Program is all about. 221 00:33:37,354.306398 --> 00:33:47,234.306398 Whether you're a seasoned executive or just starting out, this unique program offers valuable tools to help you lead with more presence and power consciousness. 222 00:33:48,294.306398 --> 00:33:57,744.306398 The program includes live interactive learning sessions, real world case studies, and small group coaching sessions to support your growth and development. 223 00:33:58,704.306398 --> 00:34:05,204.306398 What's more, you'll become a part of a community of like minded leaders who are committed to making a positive difference. 224 00:34:06,689.306398 --> 00:34:18,549.306398 If this resonates with you, I encourage you to join us in exploring power dynamics, creating cultures of belonging, and inspiring our teams and communities to achieve great things together. 225 00:34:19,349.306398 --> 00:34:24,319.306398 Seats are limited, so consider taking this opportunity to transform your leadership journey. 226 00:34:25,959.305398 --> 00:34:32,459.206398 To find out more and register for the Power Conscious Authentic Leadership Program, visit www. 227 00:34:32,459.306398 --> 00:34:33,489.306398 rightuseofpower. 228 00:34:33,529.306398 --> 00:34:34,39.306398 org. 229 00:34:34,779.306398 --> 00:34:38,149.306398 You can also check out the show notes for a direct link to register. 230 00:34:38,889.306398 --> 00:34:39,979.306398 We hope to see you there. 231 00:34:41,489.306398 --> 00:34:42,989.306398 And now, back to our show. 232 00:34:44,946.3018628 --> 00:34:55,706.3018628 I was surprised that, um, we recently did a Webinar on our theory of change, um, which we've, you know, collectively redrafted over the last year. 233 00:34:56,246.3018628 --> 00:35:01,906.3018628 And one of the tenets of it is sort of like the need for group work. 234 00:35:01,916.3018628 --> 00:35:06,156.3008628 And I was surprised that was one of the things that resonated from people. 235 00:35:07,221.3018628 --> 00:35:33,91.3008628 What resonated with people the most is that, um, they were already doing individualized things, but just did feel this need to address things, um, through, we're just going to keep saying collective, but, um, you know, a support group or a learning community or something just, I think that's a very like intrinsic human need to process and. 236 00:35:33,741.3018628 --> 00:35:37,561.3018628 learn together and to do that through all stages of life. 237 00:35:38,905.2383628 --> 00:35:42,875.2383628 Well, and that's what you do in your organization, right? Like, that's what you teach. 238 00:35:42,875.2383628 --> 00:35:45,675.2383628 I realize we've never actually gone into what Spring Up does. 239 00:35:46,575.2383628 --> 00:35:59,95.2373628 And I think, um, Yeah, I, I always recommend your work everywhere I go, almost, um, and I would love for our listeners to hear more about what you do. 240 00:35:59,541.3008628 --> 00:36:01,221.3008628 I appreciate that so much. 241 00:36:01,221.3008628 --> 00:36:12,961.3008628 And I think it's interesting because, you know, through the evolution of the time, it could be described in a lot of different ways, but kind of the core of it is we practice and teach the skills to be free together. 242 00:36:13,341.3008628 --> 00:36:16,231.3008628 Um, and we have an online academy. 243 00:36:16,596.3008628 --> 00:36:22,716.3008628 Where we have, you know, day long retreats, six week courses, um, self guided things. 244 00:36:22,716.3008628 --> 00:36:28,846.3008628 We encourage people to sign up with a buddy or a group of people, um, or you'll meet people through the process. 245 00:36:29,146.3008628 --> 00:37:13,616.3008628 Uh, and it's, you know, all the skills that over, you know, At least the last decade, but certainly longer, more formally over the last decade, we've been asking ourselves if we're committed to collective liberation, what is up to us to know how to do so that we don't replicate these systems as we have the opportunity to redesign them? And that includes things like consent based decision making, generative conflict, practicing accountability, um, co regulation, and Just all sorts of things from the embodied into the systems design, um, that would need to be in place kind of no matter what it is that you do to be able to harness the power of the collective, um, and and be aware of the ways that systems of oppression. 246 00:37:13,876.3008628 --> 00:37:25,806.3008628 Recreate these dynamics, even inside of our more liberatory spaces and not just analyze the problem, but also have a ton of possibility models and tools to actually design them differently. 247 00:37:26,96.3008628 --> 00:37:33,446.2998628 Um, and we kind of where some of that comes from is we do a lot of that work in partnership with organizations as well, including. 248 00:37:33,696.3008628 --> 00:37:50,516.2998628 Uh, multi year partnerships that are very adaptive to support groups in decentralized power, um, kind of thinking about harm response outside of HR, thinking about HR tends to be around liability and kind of federal responsibility. 249 00:37:50,821.3008628 --> 00:38:01,871.3008628 Um, and this is much more thinking about if we're tending to harm because it's impacting people and because it's relational, then we actually need to approach it in a different, in a different kind of way. 250 00:38:02,121.3008628 --> 00:38:06,911.3003628 And once we're addressing harm that way, we start thinking about conflict in a different kind of way. 251 00:38:06,911.3003628 --> 00:38:17,341.3008628 And finally, feedback in a different kind of way and decision making in a different kind of way and shared languages so that we can actually do this work together and do it with the same references. 252 00:38:17,701.3008628 --> 00:38:24,801.3008628 Um, and, and that's where Lee was talking about at the beginning that it's really from practice that we have these ideas. 253 00:38:25,71.3008628 --> 00:38:36,261.2998628 Um, and it's not only from our own practice, but it's also from doing this with groups and staying in relationship and hearing what works and what doesn't, and, and really recognizing the. 254 00:38:36,691.3008628 --> 00:38:45,511.3008628 customization and adaptability that's necessary because you can't just copy and paste the same frameworks if you're actually practicing collective power. 255 00:38:45,811.3008628 --> 00:38:55,871.3008628 And so it's really saying, okay, these are some core values, some core tenants, some core frameworks that we know work across a lot of different groups. 256 00:38:56,171.3008628 --> 00:38:59,141.3008628 Let's work together to figure out how this needs to be adopted. 257 00:38:59,391.3008628 --> 00:39:11,891.3008628 To really work for your group and then let's see what happens, you know, in this experiment that we're going through together that we've seen, we've seen a lot of positive transformation through that, which is really, really exciting. 258 00:39:11,891.3008628 --> 00:39:13,961.3008628 And, you know, we're always adding different pieces. 259 00:39:13,961.3008628 --> 00:39:20,721.3008628 We just added the mediation program because we've done conflict intervention in the past and pivoted to just design. 260 00:39:20,721.3008628 --> 00:39:24,981.3008628 And now we do direct intervention again through mediation, but. 261 00:39:25,986.3008628 --> 00:39:45,26.2998628 We often laugh about having the longest menu possible, um, because we really want people to be able to help us meet them where they're at, that we can share the same toolkit in so many different ways, in different structures, in different amounts of time for different groups of people. 262 00:39:45,346.3018628 --> 00:39:59,196.3008628 And we'd rather have all those options so that there's no reason why you can't access what it is you need, whether it's It's price, time, you know, what, whatever it is that you got going on, we've got something to help you move forward, you know? Yeah. 263 00:39:59,196.3008628 --> 00:40:07,266.2998628 And I think that, um, what we do, we've done, um, the right use of power training and read, you know, a number of the materials. 264 00:40:07,266.2998628 --> 00:40:09,126.3008628 I think it's very complimentary. 265 00:40:09,126.3008628 --> 00:40:12,441.2008628 It's, um, building your awareness of, um, power. 266 00:40:13,141.3008628 --> 00:40:20,291.3008628 self and other and others and how you can, you know, move through that mindfully. 267 00:40:20,321.3008628 --> 00:40:27,201.2998628 Um, and yeah, so I guess if, if listeners are interested to learn more, they can find us on our website, time to spring up. 268 00:40:27,531.2998628 --> 00:40:31,831.2998628 org or, um, on social media at time to spring up. 269 00:40:32,161.3008628 --> 00:40:35,11.3008628 And we have a brochure of all of our offerings. 270 00:40:35,41.3008628 --> 00:40:39,921.3008628 Um, and then our online school platform is blue light Academy as well. 271 00:40:41,975.2383628 --> 00:40:47,635.2373628 amazing, and I've taken, uh, one of your trainings as well, and I highly recommend. 272 00:40:48,225.2383628 --> 00:40:56,375.2383628 Um, it's just the work that you do is what's needed to make collective power sustainable. 273 00:40:57,265.2373628 --> 00:41:15,195.2383628 And I, I see so often where, you know, brilliant ideas are born and start to be nurtured and then they fall apart because of infighting or yeah, an inability to just be present with what it is and. 274 00:41:15,740.2383628 --> 00:41:20,121.3008628 Um, skills to move through it and y'all do such a beautiful job at Thank you, Amanda. 275 00:41:20,141.3008628 --> 00:41:32,411.3008628 I remember when we first started offering our virtual one day retreats, um, we posted them and then within a short amount of time, you and your colleagues signed up for all of them. 276 00:41:32,751.2998628 --> 00:41:39,791.3008628 And we were like, who are these people from Naropa? We were like, and also this seems like this is what people want. 277 00:41:39,841.3008628 --> 00:41:46,11.3008628 So it's great to get that, that feedback and to have, you know, stayed in touch for these few years. 278 00:41:47,230.2383628 --> 00:41:47,660.2383628 Yeah. 279 00:41:47,740.2383628 --> 00:41:48,350.2383628 Amazing. 280 00:41:49,30.2383628 --> 00:41:51,100.2383628 Well, thank you so much for joining. 281 00:41:51,120.2383628 --> 00:42:00,670.2383628 I could talk with y'all for hours, um, because there's so many kind of different branches we could go on, but thank you so much for this conversation. 282 00:42:00,871.3008628 --> 00:42:01,161.3008628 Yeah. 283 00:42:01,161.3008628 --> 00:42:02,21.3008628 Thank you too. 284 00:42:02,31.3008628 --> 00:42:02,661.3008628 It was a joy. 285 00:42:06,491.3008628 --> 00:42:09,221.3008628 Thank you for listening to the Power Dynamic Podcast. 286 00:42:09,401.3008628 --> 00:42:14,831.3008628 If you'd like to follow along, remember to like and subscribe so you don't miss our next episodes. 287 00:42:15,41.3008628 --> 00:42:21,851.3008628 You can also find out more about the right use of Power Institute at www.rightuseofpower.org, 288 00:42:22,61.3008628 --> 00:42:26,831.3008628 or you can like us on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, or TikTok at the institute. 289 00:42:26,831.3008628 --> 00:42:28,241.3008628 Feedback is always welcome. 290 00:42:28,581.3008628 --> 00:42:36,141.3008628 We appreciate feedback that is generative, meaning that it will help us to stretch and grow, but also avoids destructive commentary. 291 00:42:36,351.3008628 --> 00:42:39,581.3008628 To submit your feedback, please email feedback at writeuseofpower. 292 00:42:40,171.3008628 --> 00:42:42,391.3008628 org, or feel free to leave us a review. 293 00:42:42,631.3008628 --> 00:42:48,146.2008628 The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed by guests do not represent the views, thoughts, and opinions. 294 00:42:48,286.3008628 --> 00:42:55,426.3008628 Of the right use of power Institute, nor are they an endorsement of, or opposition to any specific organization, product, or service. 295 00:42:55,746.3008628 --> 00:43:03,356.3008628 The material and information presented here is for general educational purposes only, and does not constitute advice or services. 296 00:43:03,636.3008628 --> 00:43:06,181.2008628 Some episodes of the power dynamic podcast. 297 00:43:06,331.3008628 --> 00:43:08,631.3008628 Include a transcript of the episode's audio. 298 00:43:08,871.3008628 --> 00:43:13,161.3008628 The text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. 299 00:43:13,351.3008628 --> 00:43:24,571.2998628 Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. 300 00:43:24,781.3008628 --> 00:43:29,11.3008628 We welcome you to download and play the podcast and share with others for personal use. 301 00:43:29,671.3008628 --> 00:43:33,81.3008628 Please acknowledge the Power Dynamic podcast as the source of the material. 302 00:43:33,501.3008628 --> 00:43:41,171.3008628 You may not rebroadcast, distribute, or commercially exploit any portion of the content, except with our express written consent. 303 00:43:41,381.3008628 --> 00:43:45,831.3008628 The Power Dynamic podcast is produced exclusively by the Right Use of Power Institute. 304 00:43:45,991.2998628 --> 00:43:47,41.3018628 All rights reserved.