March 10, 2025 • 21 mins
The Education Review Office (ERO) is the government’s external education evaluation agency, and normally reviews schools over a three year cycle. As tumuaki, you’ll be involved in preparing for a review. Today we’re going to talk about what to expect during an ERO review.
My guests are:
- Shane Morrow, Manager Review and Improvement Services, ERO
- Sharee Hemingway, Director Ākonga Māori, ERO
- Stephen Lethbridge, principal of Point Chevalier School Rangi-mata-rau
- Nick Leith, tumuaki of Te Raekura Redcliffs School.
This podcast was produced for the Ministry of Education as part of Te Ara Tīmatanga mō ngā Tumuaki - The Beginning Pathway for Principals.
You can learn more about this topic by accessing Te Ara Tīmatanga mō ngā Tumuaki - The Beginning Pathway for Principals e-learning modules on the Education LMS: https://training.education.govt.nz
Show notes
Episode themes:
- The traditional event-based three-yearly ERO reviews have changed, and now schools have an evaluation partner who works with the school across a three-year cycle looking at what the school is working on, the impact of that work on their young people, the priorities that they're setting, and helping them measure or figure out how well they're doing to get there. The idea is to help build evaluation capacity with the school so that they really have an understanding of the impact of the work that they're doing.
- The hauhake phase of the review cycle (the six months leading up to the report) is the intense phase of ERO working with the school.
- Outline of the ERO process for English-medium schools.
- Outline of the process for Māori-medium kura.
- The Te Pou Reo team and how it works in rumaki and bilingual kura.
- What evaluation partners are looking for when they visit a kura.
- ERO reviews are different than when you experience them as a kaiako or member of senior leadership team when you become tumuaki. ERO reviews are useful for new tumuaki to help them learn about their school and the way it works.
Additional information
ERO website www.ero.govt.nz
School Improvement Framework (SIF) https://ero.govt.nz/how-ero-reviews/how-ero-reviews-schoolskura-english-medium/te-ara-huarau-the-new-approach-to-evaluation/school-improvement-framework
Questions
1:16 [Shane] What is the purpose of an ERO review and why are they important?
2:44 [Shane] The approach for reviews has changed quite a bit in recent years. Can you tell me about the new approach?
4:35 [Shane] In terms of the amount of time that an evaluation partner would spend with a tumuaki or the board, how much time are we talking over a cycle?
6:46 [Shane] How does the process work now?
10:26 [Sharee] The process is slightly different for Maōri medium rumaki and bilingual reviews?
11:28 [Sharee] For a new tumuaki coming in going through that process, what does that look like?
12:35 [Sharee] Can you tell me about Te Pou Reo and how that team works, please?
13:25 [Shane and Sharee] What are evaluation partners and Toki Ao Mārama looking for when they go into a kura?
16:45 [Stephen and Nick] You will have both experienced ERO visits maybe when you were a kaiako or a member of senior leadership. How does it differ now that you're tumuaki?
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Eleisha (00:07):
Kia ora and welcome to The Principals, a podcast series
for new school principals inAotearoa New Zealand. I'm
Eleisha McNeill. The EducationReview Office or ERO is the
government's external educationevaluation agency, and normally
review schools and kura everythree years. Fair to say these
reviews used to be a bit scaryfor schools, but in recent times
(00:29):
the approach ERO takes withreviews has changed. And that's
what we're talking about today.Just a reminder, you can find
more information in thee-learning modules and there's a
link to those in the show notes.Here are my guests.
Interview (00:41):
Kia ora koutou,
Lethbridge tokū ingoa, tumuakio Rangi-mata-rau, Point
Chevalier School in Auckland.
Sharee (00:49):
Tēnā koutou, ko Sharee toku ingoa. I'm so I'm with the
Education Review Office and I amthe director of ākonga Māori.
Nick (00:56):
Kia ora tātou, ko Nick Leith tokū ingoa, I'm the
tumuaki at Te Raekura RedcliffsSchool in Ōtautahi Christchurch
Shane (01:04):
And mōrena tātou, I'm Shane Morrow, I'm one of the
managers for review andimprovement services. I lead a
team of evaluation partners forEnglish medium schools, also
based in Christchurch.
Eleisha (01:16):
Thank you very much for joining me today. So, Shane, if
I can start with you, can youtalk me through the purpose of
an ERO review and tell me whythey're important?
Shane (01:26):
The purpose of an ERO review is to give an independent
look into what's happening foryoung people in the school. So
our work is focused on ourwhakataukī which is ko te
tamaiti te pūtake o te kaupapa,the children or child at the
heart of the matter. And soschools in New Zealand are
self-governing and self-managing.They have to, if they're a state
or a state integrated school,follow a national curriculum.
(01:46):
And ERO is an independent agencywhich looks into schools to see
are they emotionally andphysically safe places for young
people, and how well are youngpeople learning in school? So
we're looking at the equity inexcellence for education
outcomes in schools. So that'sour purpose of coming to visit.
Eleisha (02:03):
And why are they important?
Shane (02:04):
They're important I think for a couple of reasons. One is
because it gives the school theopportunity to have an outside
evaluator come in and look atwhat's happening, to provide
them with some kind of critique,to check to see if the school is
seeing the same priorities thatthe ERO reviewer might be seeing,
to help them plan ahead forwhat's going to be important to
focus on in the next part of thecycle, which is a three year
(02:27):
cycle, to also then think abouthow they're going to know the
impact of the work that they'redoing. And then there are times
when we have to look into aschool and find that things
aren't going so well. And somaybe we need to think about
some support that the schoolmight need or what we can do to
help as we work through a cycletogether.
Eleisha (02:43):
And in recent years the approach for reviews has changed
quite a lot. Can you tell meabout the new approach, please?
Shane (02:50):
So previous ERO reviews that many people have
experienced before, were what wecalled an event-based review. So
what would happen is a team ofreviewers would arrive at a
school, usually on a Mondaymorning. They'd be there for
three or four days. They wouldpresent some emerging findings
at the end of that time and thenthey would go away, write a
report and come back again,maybe in a couple of years or
(03:12):
maybe in 3 to 4 years time. Andwhat we were always looking at
in those reviews is what had theschool done since last time we
were there.
Eleisha (03:19):
Mm
Shane (03:19):
And we know that that wasn't really helpful because
schools are in a state ofconstant improvement. And so the
new approach is around having anevaluation partner that works
with the school across a threeyear cycle. And the cycle is
about looking at what is theschool working on, what is the
impact of that work on theiryoung people, what are the
priorities that they're setting,and helping them to kind of
(03:41):
measure or figure out how wellthey're doing to get there. So
the evaluation partner worksalongside the school, connects
with the school strategicplanning, so it's looking about
what is the school alreadyfocusing on or know is its
priorities, what is the school'sdata telling them and how well
are they using that to informthe decision-making that they do?
And the whole idea is to helpbuild evaluation capacity with
(04:03):
the school so that they reallyhave an understanding of the
impact of the work that they'redoing. So that's how the cycle
is different. And so it'sbuilding a connection between
ERO and the school through usingan evaluation partner who works
with the tumuaki principal andthe board. It helps us get a
real understanding of what'shappening with the school,
because when you're working withthe school over a cycle, you're
in and out of the school,sometimes. You're in classrooms,
(04:26):
you're talking to many peopleover that three years. And so it
gives you a really goodunderstanding of the school,
rather than the kind of snapshotreviews that we used to do.
Eleisha (04:35):
So in terms of, you know, kind of the amount of time
that an evaluation partner wouldspend with a tumuaki or the
board, how much time are wetalking here over a cycle?
Shane (04:45):
It really depends. So there's a part of the cycle
which we call hauhake, whichleads right up to the report,
and that's the kind of intensephase of ERO working with the
school. And generally that kindof hauhake phase takes place
over six months. So we will bein touch with the school to say,
look, we're now entering thepoint at which we need to do a
report within the next couple ofterms. We'll be planning about
(05:07):
the documentation that we mightget the school to send us so we
can look at some things beforewe come, and then we'll spend
some time in the school. Andusually that is a couple of days,
maybe three days. In some placessome schools prefer come and do
it all at once. So come to us ina particular week, spend some
time, get it all done. Others wemight kind of, you know, spread
(05:29):
that out over a term. So that'sreally the big time commitment,
is in that hauhake stage wherewe're in the school looking at
the learning outcomes, whenwe're doing some work around
compliance, which we might touchon a little bit later. And then
we're heading towards draftingthe report that's going to go
out to the community. Once thatreport's been confirmed and
published on ERO's website, thenwe plan a when's the most useful
(05:52):
time to touch base.
Eleisha (05:53):
hmm.
Shane (05:53):
So for some schools it can be fairly quickly after
we've published a report becausewe might come back and do some
work around how are you going toevaluate the things that you've
agreed that we're going to workon together, or we might plan
out when some touch points are.So most schools are doing some
work around student achievementdata mid-year and end of year.
Eleisha (06:10):
Mm
Shane (06:10):
So it might be that we touch base remotely mid-year and
maybe come and visit at the endof the year. Or there might be
some schools where we actuallydon't go on site for a year or a
year and a half because we caninteract through sending
information or through videoconferencing. And so it depends
on what the school needs. Soit's fairly bespoke once the
report comes out. Some schoolsfind it's really useful to have
(06:30):
us involved right at thebeginning of the cycle so they
can set up their evaluation.Others it's more useful, you
know, they might have gatheredsome data and they're wanting
our help to make sense of it.
Eleisha (06:39):
hmm.
Shane (06:39):
And we know that change happens quite slowly in schools.
So we're looking at change overtime for young people and the
ākonga.
Eleisha (06:45):
Yeah. So how does the process work from whoa to go for
a new tumuaki coming in, whomight have experienced it as a
teacher, but it could be quitedifferent as a tumuaki. So how
does that process work?
Shane (06:56):
Process is fairly simple and hopefully fairly transparent
because it's not about asurprise. So the evaluation
partner will make contact withthe school, usually through the
tumuaki and the presiding memberof the board, and we might have
an initial meeting and that'soften held on video conference
just to sort of introduceeverybody to everybody else, to
set up what the review is goingto look like, to talk about the
(07:20):
things that we might send forthe school to complete. So
there's kind of two main streamsto our work. The learning
outcomes work that we're doing,the things around teaching and
learning and student outcomes.We use a thing called the school
improvement framework, so it'spretty typical for the ERO
reviewer to then send thatframework to the school so they
can at least have a look at it,maybe start doing some initial
(07:41):
thinking, maybe starting togather what they've already got
as evidence in their school. AndI think the really important
thing for new principals is, wealways talking about not
creating evidence for ERO, butit's using what we call
naturally occurring evidence, sowhat do you have in terms of
your strategic planning? What doyou have in terms of your
analysis of your student data
Eleisha (07:59):
hmm.
Shane (07:59):
so that we're meshing in with the things that you're
doing. We also will talk aboutthe compliance aspects of the
review work that we do.So we dolook into whether the school is
a physically and emotionallysafe place for young people, and
that involves sending the schoola checklist of things to
complete, which is kind ofmatching the policies and the
guidelines and the proceduresthat you have in place with
(08:20):
legislation. And then what we doafter that meeting is we plan
when we're going to come. And soin most cases, the school might
send us some information to havea read through, to have a think
about, and then we'll look atwhen are we going to come on
site,
Eleisha (08:32):
Mm
Shane (08:32):
what are we coming on site to do. So who might we need
to talk to, as part of our workwe do like to talk to groups of
staff, we like to talk to groupsof students, we like to get into
classrooms, we need to talk tovarious people about compliance
issues, so we plan it ahead oftime and that's where there's
some flexibility. You know, doyou want us in one fell swoop
(08:52):
for three days, or would youlike us to spread that out over
time? And that depends a littlebit on where the school is.
Eleisha (08:57):
hmm.
Shane (08:58):
And so we make that planning together. So what it
looks like is in hauhake, onsite, gathering evidence for the
review, talking to people,getting a sense of the school,
visiting classrooms, talking topeople. Once we've done that
part, then what we do is we goaway and we do some work on what
is the evidence that we've got.We draft the report for the
(09:20):
school, pulling together all theevidence that we have. Sometimes
we might have to go back to theschool for just a little bit of
extra something that we justneed to answer a question or to
make a judgement. And then whatwe do is we send the report to
the school as what we callunconfirmed. So the school board
gets a copy of ERO's draftreport.
Eleisha (09:37):
Mm hmm.
Shane (09:37):
The board has a chance to give us feedback on that, if
there's any errors of fact thatthey'd like us to correct, if
there's anything they think isnot quite right or quite
well-judged there's anopportunity for providing
feedback to ERO before thereport gets published. And then
following that process weconfirm the report with the
school, send them a copy andalso publish on our website. And
(09:59):
then once that's happened, wethen think about what's going to
happen in the next three yearsas we work towards the next
round of reporting. And sothat's what I was talking about
before. We might be in touchfairly soon to do some planning,
or we might have already agreedactually the school's under
control for a while and theymight just send us some stuff.
And so then you can expect tosee us in, you know, three or
(10:19):
four days on site, probably
Eleisha (10:20):
Yeah.
Shane (10:21):
within a six month period, and then you might not see us
for quite some time. So we'renot always there.
Eleisha (10:26):
And Sharee the process is slightly different for Maōri
medium rumaki and bilingualreviews?
Sharee (10:33):
It is, but we are part of the Te Ara Huarau improvement
journey, so our process issimilar, but we focus on schools
accessing level one and or twofunding for Māori medium - so
rumaki, which is total immersionand then the bilingual, which is
the level two. So a team, asmall team actually go in and
(10:56):
our purpose is to evaluate thequality of teaching and learning,
safety and wellbeing through theprovision of te reo Māori. So
our reviewers are proficient reoMāori speakers and have a very
good understanding and havetaught and lived experience
through the Marau, Te Marautangao Aotearoa which is another
(11:16):
curriculum document and/or theNZC. So again, like Te Ara
Huarau, it's about supportingschools with the improvement
journey, but with a lens on therumaki and bilingual unit
specifically.
Eleisha (11:28):
And so for a new tumuaki coming in in going
through that process, what doesthat look like?
Sharee (11:34):
Pretty much what Shane's just talked to. It's reaching
out, connecting and going onsite, much like the Te Ara
Huarau process. So there'll bedocumentation that often is
already in the school file viathe evaluation partner, that we
access. If there's furtherdocumentation that we might want
to see, maybe more of abreakdown of the outcomes or the
(11:54):
progress for learners in therumaki bilingual, that might be
something that we double backand ask for, otherwise much of
the information we find hasalready been collected by the
EPs, evaluation partners andagain, we go on site for
approximately a day and a half,so that's all organised with an
online hui
Eleisha (12:14):
Hmm
Sharee (12:14):
before the team goes out. They go out in pairs, in twos,
on site and we produce aninternal report that goes to the
school, which is a little bitmore fleshy around the findings,
what's working well and someagreed to next steps to improve
progress and or outcomes forākonga in those spaces
Eleisha (12:34):
Cool, so very similar. Can you tell me about Te Pou Reo
and how that team works, please?
Sharee (12:41):
Yeah so Te Pou Reo is a very new team still, we trialed
last year and there's five teammembers and like the evaluation
partners they're called Toki AoMārama, they're evaluators,
they go into the school as perthe evaluation partners do and
but with the lens over therumaki and bilingual. Where
(13:03):
schools have only a bilingualunit the Toki Ao Mārama will
work with the evaluation partnerto go in and review those spaces.
So it's like a dual resource inthere. Where a school has a
rumaki or immersion unit theToki Ao Mārama will go into
that space as well as the widerschool and do a full evaluation.
Eleisha (13:24):
Cool. So what are evaluation partners and Toki Ao
Mārama looking for when they gointo a kura?
Sharee (13:31):
So if they're going the rumaki bilingual, again it's
like Te Ara Huarau, we'relooking for the quality of
teaching and learning, safetyand wellbeing, and we look at
four core domains and havecriteria against those core
demains - curriculum, teachingand learning, governance and
leadership, and partnership.
Eleisha (13:51):
Mm hmm.
Sharee (13:52):
And we look to see where the school or the rumaki
bilingual unit is positionedaround those four key domains.
We also look at the quality ofteaching and learning through te
reo Māori specifically,
Eleisha (14:06):
Yeah.
Sharee (14:06):
because ultimately that's what the rumaki and
bilingual is about, it's that umthe maintenance and
revitalization of te reo Maōrithat we look, we look at that as
well. Yeah, but of course we'revery aware of the challenges
with the shortfall of qualifiedreo Māori speakers and the
challenges schools are facing inappointing te reo Māori
(14:27):
speakers.
Eleisha (14:28):
Yeah. Yeah. I can imagine. And Shane is it the
same for things that are lookedat in English medium schools,
too?
Shane (14:36):
Yes it is, yeah, we use the school improvement framework,
the same core domains are thefeatures for us. So that's
leadership, curriculum, teachingand learning, learner outcomes
is the key thing we're lookingat. So how well are learners
doing in this particular schoolor kura is the thing we're
looking at doing. What's thequality of teaching that's
happening for learners and thenlooking at the conditions that
(14:57):
are around surrounding them forsuccess. So the professional
capability and efficacy of thestaff that work in the school,
we're looking at for inclusionand wellbeing,
Eleisha (15:05):
Mm
Shane (15:06):
we're looking at the partnerships between the school
and the community, between theschool and local iwi and how
strong is the stewardship andgovernance of the school. We're
also getting a sense of how wellthe school is embedding Te
Tiriti o Waitangi throughlearning and through the ways
that it operates. And then thekey thing we're really looking
at is how well is the schoolable to evaluate the things that
(15:29):
it's doing. So how well does theschool know about the work that
it's doing to improve things forlearners, those are key things
that we're looking at. We alsodo some work around compliance,
which I've talked about beforeand again, so that's after
filling out what's called theBoard Assurance Statement and
the self audit checklists, whichis basically a big ticklist to
say yes, no, unsure or notapplicable to these elements of
(15:51):
legislation that are in theschool. But we'll let you know
what are the things we're goingto come in and see. So we verify
some things on the site so theschool will talk to us about
perhaps their procedures aroundeducation outside the classroom
trips. So we'll come in to lookat some evidence of the last few
trips that you did, to checkwhether they followed your
(16:11):
policy and procedures.
Eleisha (16:12):
hmm.
Shane (16:13):
We'll be looking to to look through board minutes and
board in committee minutes andprincipal's reports to the board
because they're often supplyingus with the evidence of the
things that the school isnormally and naturally doing. So
most schools will be reportingtheir student achievement to the
board, and we can find that in aprincipal's report. So we don't
need the principal to make us anice big
Eleisha (16:33):
hmm.
Shane (16:33):
beautifully analysed, here is a sheet for ERO. It's
like well here's my reporting.So those are the things that
we're looking at and we'relooking at getting a really good
strong sense of what is theschool like for the learners
that are in it.
Eleisha (16:45):
Yeah. Sure. Steven and Nick, you will have both
experienced ERO visits maybewhen you were a kaiako or a
member of senior leadership. Howdoes it differ now that you're
tumuaki? Maybe start with you,Stephen.
Stephen (16:59):
Yeah, I think I've experienced a fair number of ERO
visits in, in the many, many,many, many years I've been in
education. And I can rememberthe first one vividly because I
was a classroom teacher
Eleisha (17:10):
Mm hmm.
Stephen (17:11):
and the ERO officer came in and sat at the desk and
looked through my planning andtalked to some kids and looked
at exercise books and thefurrowed look on her face and
was frowning. And I was reallynervous and, you know, fumbling
around and said the wrong things.And then at the end came up and
(17:32):
said, that was fantastic, thanksvery much. And then moved on. So
all of that anxiety was, youknow, and the build up was
really not worth the effort atall. And then moving into senior
leadership roles, having more ofconversation with ERO officers
when they came in all the way upto that first ERO visit you get
when you're a tumuaki,which isa pretty nerve wracking time
(17:55):
because we all know thatprincipals, everything lands on
our desk and we are it.
Eleisha (18:00):
Mm hmm.
Stephen (18:01):
So it can be quite a confronting, quite a challenging
time. And that's where it justpays to think about where you're
at when you have your ERO visits.You know, if you're a brand new
principal and ERO are coming inwithin the next eight weeks as
as I was
Eleisha (18:19):
Wow.
Stephen (18:19):
at one time, I almost felt like I was an additional
evaluation partner or someonewalking around and we were
inquiring into what was going onand that's a very different
feeling to when you are three,five, seven years in at the same
school where actually, you know,it's a very different process
because actually you'reresponsible for everything now.
Eleisha (18:41):
Mm
Stephen (18:42):
So yeah, it's, it's a a challenging experience. But I
think it's it's all about whatmental models you have about the
whole
Eleisha (18:53):
hmm.
Stephen (18:53):
process.
Eleisha (18:54):
Mm
Stephen (18:54):
Are you a feedback junkie? Because if you're a
feedback junkie, then it's it'sa great experience.
Eleisha (19:00):
It would be. Nick, what about you?
Nick (19:03):
Well, I'm a very new tumuaki in the sense that
Stephen described. I arrivedabout 18 months ago in our kura
and I was handed the informationthat ERO were indeed due to
review our school. And to me, Ihad come through previous
reviews from a leadership teamperspective. I actually managed
(19:25):
a number of years as a teacherwithout ever experiencing ERO.
Eleisha (19:28):
Wow.
Nick (19:29):
So people used to say how lucky I was, which I didn't
really understand because I hadnever experienced it. And then
in leadership I actually foundthe feedback I received from
previous visits really valuable
Eleisha (19:40):
Mm
Nick (19:40):
because it helped set our school evaluation process to be
a really strong one. And so Iguess I came to principalship
with a really good understandingof how important that evaluation
process is. And also, you know,I guess that feedback from all
voices in our school beingreally important to form that
next strategic step or where arewe focusing our, you know,
(20:02):
professional development or youknow, honing in more support
Eleisha (20:06):
hmm.
Nick (20:06):
around the wellbeing space. So actually arrived feeling like,
well this is a really goodopportunity to, as Stephen said,
walk around and actually formsome of those initial findings
yourself and being the only newperson in the community
alongside our evaluation partnermade that actually quite, quite
a cool experience. I suppose I'mrevolting against the idea that
(20:28):
everything falls on theprincipal's desk and I really
want to build a really strongleadership team around our
school
Eleisha (20:34):
Mm
Nick (20:35):
and
Eleisha (20:35):
hmm.
Nick (20:35):
that was a really good first opportunity to involve um
senior team in terms of goingthrough the the SIF, the school
improvement framework
Eleisha (20:43):
Yeah,
Nick (20:43):
and actually hearing their voice, but also sort of
challenging where's the evidencearound what we're talking about.
And that was great because itwas a team deciding on the
strategic vision I suppose froma, you know, the practitioners
in the kura and then sharingthat with governance in terms of
the board. So very quickly intothe process, but found it really
rewarding and it was really, Isuppose, a productive way to set
(21:07):
the next sort of one, two, three,four, five years in
principalship. Ultimately whatwe experienced very quickly into
being a new leadership team hasformed the basis for our working
in the previous year and a halfsince and, and onto the future.
Eleisha (21:25):
Fantastic. In the next episode, we're going to keep
talking about ERO reviews, butwith a focus on preparation and
also on what happens if ERO hasconcerns. Mā te wā.
Kia ora and welcome to The Principals, a podcast series
for new school principals inAotearoa New Zealand. I'm
Eleisha McNeill. The EducationReview Office or ERO is the
government's external educationevaluation agency, and normally
review schools and kura everythree years. Fair to say these
reviews used to be a bit scaryfor schools, but in recent times
(00:29):
the approach ERO takes withreviews has changed. And that's
what we're talking about today.Just a reminder, you can find
more information in thee-learning modules and there's a
link to those in the show notes.Here are my guests.
Interview (00:41):
Kia ora koutou,
Lethbridge tokū ingoa, tumuakio Rangi-mata-rau, Point
Chevalier School in Auckland.
Sharee (00:49):
Tēnā koutou, ko Sharee toku ingoa. I'm so I'm with the
Education Review Office and I amthe director of ākonga Māori.
Nick (00:56):
Kia ora tātou, ko Nick Leith tokū ingoa, I'm the
tumuaki at Te Raekura RedcliffsSchool in Ōtautahi Christchurch
Shane (01:04):
And mōrena tātou, I'm Shane Morrow, I'm one of the
managers for review andimprovement services. I lead a
team of evaluation partners forEnglish medium schools, also
based in Christchurch.
Eleisha (01:16):
Thank you very much for joining me today. So, Shane, if
I can start with you, can youtalk me through the purpose of
an ERO review and tell me whythey're important?
Shane (01:26):
The purpose of an ERO review is to give an independent
look into what's happening foryoung people in the school. So
our work is focused on ourwhakataukī which is ko te
tamaiti te pūtake o te kaupapa,the children or child at the
heart of the matter. And soschools in New Zealand are
self-governing and self-managing.They have to, if they're a state
or a state integrated school,follow a national curriculum.
(01:46):
And ERO is an independent agencywhich looks into schools to see
are they emotionally andphysically safe places for young
people, and how well are youngpeople learning in school? So
we're looking at the equity inexcellence for education
outcomes in schools. So that'sour purpose of coming to visit.
Eleisha (02:03):
And why are they important?
Shane (02:04):
They're important I think for a couple of reasons. One is
because it gives the school theopportunity to have an outside
evaluator come in and look atwhat's happening, to provide
them with some kind of critique,to check to see if the school is
seeing the same priorities thatthe ERO reviewer might be seeing,
to help them plan ahead forwhat's going to be important to
focus on in the next part of thecycle, which is a three year
(02:27):
cycle, to also then think abouthow they're going to know the
impact of the work that they'redoing. And then there are times
when we have to look into aschool and find that things
aren't going so well. And somaybe we need to think about
some support that the schoolmight need or what we can do to
help as we work through a cycletogether.
Eleisha (02:43):
And in recent years the approach for reviews has changed
quite a lot. Can you tell meabout the new approach, please?
Shane (02:50):
So previous ERO reviews that many people have
experienced before, were what wecalled an event-based review. So
what would happen is a team ofreviewers would arrive at a
school, usually on a Mondaymorning. They'd be there for
three or four days. They wouldpresent some emerging findings
at the end of that time and thenthey would go away, write a
report and come back again,maybe in a couple of years or
(03:12):
maybe in 3 to 4 years time. Andwhat we were always looking at
in those reviews is what had theschool done since last time we
were there.
Eleisha (03:19):
Mm
Shane (03:19):
And we know that that wasn't really helpful because
schools are in a state ofconstant improvement. And so the
new approach is around having anevaluation partner that works
with the school across a threeyear cycle. And the cycle is
about looking at what is theschool working on, what is the
impact of that work on theiryoung people, what are the
priorities that they're setting,and helping them to kind of
(03:41):
measure or figure out how wellthey're doing to get there. So
the evaluation partner worksalongside the school, connects
with the school strategicplanning, so it's looking about
what is the school alreadyfocusing on or know is its
priorities, what is the school'sdata telling them and how well
are they using that to informthe decision-making that they do?
And the whole idea is to helpbuild evaluation capacity with
(04:03):
the school so that they reallyhave an understanding of the
impact of the work that they'redoing. So that's how the cycle
is different. And so it'sbuilding a connection between
ERO and the school through usingan evaluation partner who works
with the tumuaki principal andthe board. It helps us get a
real understanding of what'shappening with the school,
because when you're working withthe school over a cycle, you're
in and out of the school,sometimes. You're in classrooms,
(04:26):
you're talking to many peopleover that three years. And so it
gives you a really goodunderstanding of the school,
rather than the kind of snapshotreviews that we used to do.
Eleisha (04:35):
So in terms of, you know, kind of the amount of time
that an evaluation partner wouldspend with a tumuaki or the
board, how much time are wetalking here over a cycle?
Shane (04:45):
It really depends. So there's a part of the cycle
which we call hauhake, whichleads right up to the report,
and that's the kind of intensephase of ERO working with the
school. And generally that kindof hauhake phase takes place
over six months. So we will bein touch with the school to say,
look, we're now entering thepoint at which we need to do a
report within the next couple ofterms. We'll be planning about
(05:07):
the documentation that we mightget the school to send us so we
can look at some things beforewe come, and then we'll spend
some time in the school. Andusually that is a couple of days,
maybe three days. In some placessome schools prefer come and do
it all at once. So come to us ina particular week, spend some
time, get it all done. Others wemight kind of, you know, spread
(05:29):
that out over a term. So that'sreally the big time commitment,
is in that hauhake stage wherewe're in the school looking at
the learning outcomes, whenwe're doing some work around
compliance, which we might touchon a little bit later. And then
we're heading towards draftingthe report that's going to go
out to the community. Once thatreport's been confirmed and
published on ERO's website, thenwe plan a when's the most useful
(05:52):
time to touch base.
Eleisha (05:53):
hmm.
Shane (05:53):
So for some schools it can be fairly quickly after
we've published a report becausewe might come back and do some
work around how are you going toevaluate the things that you've
agreed that we're going to workon together, or we might plan
out when some touch points are.So most schools are doing some
work around student achievementdata mid-year and end of year.
Eleisha (06:10):
Mm
Shane (06:10):
So it might be that we touch base remotely mid-year and
maybe come and visit at the endof the year. Or there might be
some schools where we actuallydon't go on site for a year or a
year and a half because we caninteract through sending
information or through videoconferencing. And so it depends
on what the school needs. Soit's fairly bespoke once the
report comes out. Some schoolsfind it's really useful to have
(06:30):
us involved right at thebeginning of the cycle so they
can set up their evaluation.Others it's more useful, you
know, they might have gatheredsome data and they're wanting
our help to make sense of it.
Eleisha (06:39):
hmm.
Shane (06:39):
And we know that change happens quite slowly in schools.
So we're looking at change overtime for young people and the
ākonga.
Eleisha (06:45):
Yeah. So how does the process work from whoa to go for
a new tumuaki coming in, whomight have experienced it as a
teacher, but it could be quitedifferent as a tumuaki. So how
does that process work?
Shane (06:56):
Process is fairly simple and hopefully fairly transparent
because it's not about asurprise. So the evaluation
partner will make contact withthe school, usually through the
tumuaki and the presiding memberof the board, and we might have
an initial meeting and that'soften held on video conference
just to sort of introduceeverybody to everybody else, to
set up what the review is goingto look like, to talk about the
(07:20):
things that we might send forthe school to complete. So
there's kind of two main streamsto our work. The learning
outcomes work that we're doing,the things around teaching and
learning and student outcomes.We use a thing called the school
improvement framework, so it'spretty typical for the ERO
reviewer to then send thatframework to the school so they
can at least have a look at it,maybe start doing some initial
(07:41):
thinking, maybe starting togather what they've already got
as evidence in their school. AndI think the really important
thing for new principals is, wealways talking about not
creating evidence for ERO, butit's using what we call
naturally occurring evidence, sowhat do you have in terms of
your strategic planning? What doyou have in terms of your
analysis of your student data
Eleisha (07:59):
hmm.
Shane (07:59):
so that we're meshing in with the things that you're
doing. We also will talk aboutthe compliance aspects of the
review work that we do.So we dolook into whether the school is
a physically and emotionallysafe place for young people, and
that involves sending the schoola checklist of things to
complete, which is kind ofmatching the policies and the
guidelines and the proceduresthat you have in place with
(08:20):
legislation. And then what we doafter that meeting is we plan
when we're going to come. And soin most cases, the school might
send us some information to havea read through, to have a think
about, and then we'll look atwhen are we going to come on
site,
Eleisha (08:32):
Mm
Shane (08:32):
what are we coming on site to do. So who might we need
to talk to, as part of our workwe do like to talk to groups of
staff, we like to talk to groupsof students, we like to get into
classrooms, we need to talk tovarious people about compliance
issues, so we plan it ahead oftime and that's where there's
some flexibility. You know, doyou want us in one fell swoop
(08:52):
for three days, or would youlike us to spread that out over
time? And that depends a littlebit on where the school is.
Eleisha (08:57):
hmm.
Shane (08:58):
And so we make that planning together. So what it
looks like is in hauhake, onsite, gathering evidence for the
review, talking to people,getting a sense of the school,
visiting classrooms, talking topeople. Once we've done that
part, then what we do is we goaway and we do some work on what
is the evidence that we've got.We draft the report for the
(09:20):
school, pulling together all theevidence that we have. Sometimes
we might have to go back to theschool for just a little bit of
extra something that we justneed to answer a question or to
make a judgement. And then whatwe do is we send the report to
the school as what we callunconfirmed. So the school board
gets a copy of ERO's draftreport.
Eleisha (09:37):
Mm hmm.
Shane (09:37):
The board has a chance to give us feedback on that, if
there's any errors of fact thatthey'd like us to correct, if
there's anything they think isnot quite right or quite
well-judged there's anopportunity for providing
feedback to ERO before thereport gets published. And then
following that process weconfirm the report with the
school, send them a copy andalso publish on our website. And
(09:59):
then once that's happened, wethen think about what's going to
happen in the next three yearsas we work towards the next
round of reporting. And sothat's what I was talking about
before. We might be in touchfairly soon to do some planning,
or we might have already agreedactually the school's under
control for a while and theymight just send us some stuff.
And so then you can expect tosee us in, you know, three or
(10:19):
four days on site, probably
Eleisha (10:20):
Yeah.
Shane (10:21):
within a six month period, and then you might not see us
for quite some time. So we'renot always there.
Eleisha (10:26):
And Sharee the process is slightly different for Maōri
medium rumaki and bilingualreviews?
Sharee (10:33):
It is, but we are part of the Te Ara Huarau improvement
journey, so our process issimilar, but we focus on schools
accessing level one and or twofunding for Māori medium - so
rumaki, which is total immersionand then the bilingual, which is
the level two. So a team, asmall team actually go in and
(10:56):
our purpose is to evaluate thequality of teaching and learning,
safety and wellbeing through theprovision of te reo Māori. So
our reviewers are proficient reoMāori speakers and have a very
good understanding and havetaught and lived experience
through the Marau, Te Marautangao Aotearoa which is another
(11:16):
curriculum document and/or theNZC. So again, like Te Ara
Huarau, it's about supportingschools with the improvement
journey, but with a lens on therumaki and bilingual unit
specifically.
Eleisha (11:28):
And so for a new tumuaki coming in in going
through that process, what doesthat look like?
Sharee (11:34):
Pretty much what Shane's just talked to. It's reaching
out, connecting and going onsite, much like the Te Ara
Huarau process. So there'll bedocumentation that often is
already in the school file viathe evaluation partner, that we
access. If there's furtherdocumentation that we might want
to see, maybe more of abreakdown of the outcomes or the
(11:54):
progress for learners in therumaki bilingual, that might be
something that we double backand ask for, otherwise much of
the information we find hasalready been collected by the
EPs, evaluation partners andagain, we go on site for
approximately a day and a half,so that's all organised with an
online hui
Eleisha (12:14):
Hmm
Sharee (12:14):
before the team goes out. They go out in pairs, in twos,
on site and we produce aninternal report that goes to the
school, which is a little bitmore fleshy around the findings,
what's working well and someagreed to next steps to improve
progress and or outcomes forākonga in those spaces
Eleisha (12:34):
Cool, so very similar. Can you tell me about Te Pou Reo
and how that team works, please?
Sharee (12:41):
Yeah so Te Pou Reo is a very new team still, we trialed
last year and there's five teammembers and like the evaluation
partners they're called Toki AoMārama, they're evaluators,
they go into the school as perthe evaluation partners do and
but with the lens over therumaki and bilingual. Where
(13:03):
schools have only a bilingualunit the Toki Ao Mārama will
work with the evaluation partnerto go in and review those spaces.
So it's like a dual resource inthere. Where a school has a
rumaki or immersion unit theToki Ao Mārama will go into
that space as well as the widerschool and do a full evaluation.
Eleisha (13:24):
Cool. So what are evaluation partners and Toki Ao
Mārama looking for when they gointo a kura?
Sharee (13:31):
So if they're going the rumaki bilingual, again it's
like Te Ara Huarau, we'relooking for the quality of
teaching and learning, safetyand wellbeing, and we look at
four core domains and havecriteria against those core
demains - curriculum, teachingand learning, governance and
leadership, and partnership.
Eleisha (13:51):
Mm hmm.
Sharee (13:52):
And we look to see where the school or the rumaki
bilingual unit is positionedaround those four key domains.
We also look at the quality ofteaching and learning through te
reo Māori specifically,
Eleisha (14:06):
Yeah.
Sharee (14:06):
because ultimately that's what the rumaki and
bilingual is about, it's that umthe maintenance and
revitalization of te reo Maōrithat we look, we look at that as
well. Yeah, but of course we'revery aware of the challenges
with the shortfall of qualifiedreo Māori speakers and the
challenges schools are facing inappointing te reo Māori
(14:27):
speakers.
Eleisha (14:28):
Yeah. Yeah. I can imagine. And Shane is it the
same for things that are lookedat in English medium schools,
too?
Shane (14:36):
Yes it is, yeah, we use the school improvement framework,
the same core domains are thefeatures for us. So that's
leadership, curriculum, teachingand learning, learner outcomes
is the key thing we're lookingat. So how well are learners
doing in this particular schoolor kura is the thing we're
looking at doing. What's thequality of teaching that's
happening for learners and thenlooking at the conditions that
(14:57):
are around surrounding them forsuccess. So the professional
capability and efficacy of thestaff that work in the school,
we're looking at for inclusionand wellbeing,
Eleisha (15:05):
Mm
Shane (15:06):
we're looking at the partnerships between the school
and the community, between theschool and local iwi and how
strong is the stewardship andgovernance of the school. We're
also getting a sense of how wellthe school is embedding Te
Tiriti o Waitangi throughlearning and through the ways
that it operates. And then thekey thing we're really looking
at is how well is the schoolable to evaluate the things that
(15:29):
it's doing. So how well does theschool know about the work that
it's doing to improve things forlearners, those are key things
that we're looking at. We alsodo some work around compliance,
which I've talked about beforeand again, so that's after
filling out what's called theBoard Assurance Statement and
the self audit checklists, whichis basically a big ticklist to
say yes, no, unsure or notapplicable to these elements of
(15:51):
legislation that are in theschool. But we'll let you know
what are the things we're goingto come in and see. So we verify
some things on the site so theschool will talk to us about
perhaps their procedures aroundeducation outside the classroom
trips. So we'll come in to lookat some evidence of the last few
trips that you did, to checkwhether they followed your
(16:11):
policy and procedures.
Eleisha (16:12):
hmm.
Shane (16:13):
We'll be looking to to look through board minutes and
board in committee minutes andprincipal's reports to the board
because they're often supplyingus with the evidence of the
things that the school isnormally and naturally doing. So
most schools will be reportingtheir student achievement to the
board, and we can find that in aprincipal's report. So we don't
need the principal to make us anice big
Eleisha (16:33):
hmm.
Shane (16:33):
beautifully analysed, here is a sheet for ERO. It's
like well here's my reporting.So those are the things that
we're looking at and we'relooking at getting a really good
strong sense of what is theschool like for the learners
that are in it.
Eleisha (16:45):
Yeah. Sure. Steven and Nick, you will have both
experienced ERO visits maybewhen you were a kaiako or a
member of senior leadership. Howdoes it differ now that you're
tumuaki? Maybe start with you,Stephen.
Stephen (16:59):
Yeah, I think I've experienced a fair number of ERO
visits in, in the many, many,many, many years I've been in
education. And I can rememberthe first one vividly because I
was a classroom teacher
Eleisha (17:10):
Mm hmm.
Stephen (17:11):
and the ERO officer came in and sat at the desk and
looked through my planning andtalked to some kids and looked
at exercise books and thefurrowed look on her face and
was frowning. And I was reallynervous and, you know, fumbling
around and said the wrong things.And then at the end came up and
(17:32):
said, that was fantastic, thanksvery much. And then moved on. So
all of that anxiety was, youknow, and the build up was
really not worth the effort atall. And then moving into senior
leadership roles, having more ofconversation with ERO officers
when they came in all the way upto that first ERO visit you get
when you're a tumuaki,which isa pretty nerve wracking time
(17:55):
because we all know thatprincipals, everything lands on
our desk and we are it.
Eleisha (18:00):
Mm hmm.
Stephen (18:01):
So it can be quite a confronting, quite a challenging
time. And that's where it justpays to think about where you're
at when you have your ERO visits.You know, if you're a brand new
principal and ERO are coming inwithin the next eight weeks as
as I was
Eleisha (18:19):
Wow.
Stephen (18:19):
at one time, I almost felt like I was an additional
evaluation partner or someonewalking around and we were
inquiring into what was going onand that's a very different
feeling to when you are three,five, seven years in at the same
school where actually, you know,it's a very different process
because actually you'reresponsible for everything now.
Eleisha (18:41):
Mm
Stephen (18:42):
So yeah, it's, it's a a challenging experience. But I
think it's it's all about whatmental models you have about the
whole
Eleisha (18:53):
hmm.
Stephen (18:53):
process.
Eleisha (18:54):
Mm
Stephen (18:54):
Are you a feedback junkie? Because if you're a
feedback junkie, then it's it'sa great experience.
Eleisha (19:00):
It would be. Nick, what about you?
Nick (19:03):
Well, I'm a very new tumuaki in the sense that
Stephen described. I arrivedabout 18 months ago in our kura
and I was handed the informationthat ERO were indeed due to
review our school. And to me, Ihad come through previous
reviews from a leadership teamperspective. I actually managed
(19:25):
a number of years as a teacherwithout ever experiencing ERO.
Eleisha (19:28):
Wow.
Nick (19:29):
So people used to say how lucky I was, which I didn't
really understand because I hadnever experienced it. And then
in leadership I actually foundthe feedback I received from
previous visits really valuable
Eleisha (19:40):
Mm
Nick (19:40):
because it helped set our school evaluation process to be
a really strong one. And so Iguess I came to principalship
with a really good understandingof how important that evaluation
process is. And also, you know,I guess that feedback from all
voices in our school beingreally important to form that
next strategic step or where arewe focusing our, you know,
(20:02):
professional development or youknow, honing in more support
Eleisha (20:06):
hmm.
Nick (20:06):
around the wellbeing space. So actually arrived feeling like,
well this is a really goodopportunity to, as Stephen said,
walk around and actually formsome of those initial findings
yourself and being the only newperson in the community
alongside our evaluation partnermade that actually quite, quite
a cool experience. I suppose I'mrevolting against the idea that
(20:28):
everything falls on theprincipal's desk and I really
want to build a really strongleadership team around our
school
Eleisha (20:34):
Mm
Nick (20:35):
and
Eleisha (20:35):
hmm.
Nick (20:35):
that was a really good first opportunity to involve um
senior team in terms of goingthrough the the SIF, the school
improvement framework
Eleisha (20:43):
Yeah,
Nick (20:43):
and actually hearing their voice, but also sort of
challenging where's the evidencearound what we're talking about.
And that was great because itwas a team deciding on the
strategic vision I suppose froma, you know, the practitioners
in the kura and then sharingthat with governance in terms of
the board. So very quickly intothe process, but found it really
rewarding and it was really, Isuppose, a productive way to set
(21:07):
the next sort of one, two, three,four, five years in
principalship. Ultimately whatwe experienced very quickly into
being a new leadership team hasformed the basis for our working
in the previous year and a halfsince and, and onto the future.
Eleisha (21:25):
Fantastic. In the next episode, we're going to keep
talking about ERO reviews, butwith a focus on preparation and
also on what happens if ERO hasconcerns. Mā te wā.
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