March 31, 2025 • 28 mins
Today we’re talking about state school property maintenance. School boards, which include the tumuaki, are responsible for overseeing the maintenance of their kura. Good maintenance keeps schools safe, and prevents small problems from escalating into big ones needing expensive repair.
My guests are:
- De Thomson, Ministry of Education Infrastructure manager Otago/Southland
- Nick Read, tumuaki of Havelock North Primary School
- Alistair Luke, principal of Whangamata Area School
This podcast was produced for the Ministry of Education as part of Te Ara Tīmatanga mō ngā Tumuaki - The Beginning Pathway for Principals.
You can learn more about this topic by accessing Te Ara Tīmatanga mō ngā Tumuaki - The Beginning Pathway for Principals e-learning modules on the Education LMS: https://training.education.govt.nz
Show notes
Episode themes:
- Your property advisor can come and give you a property 101 presentation. They’re your point of contact for all things property.
- Three main types of maintenance:
- Regular day-to-day and preventative maintenance, like gutter cleaning, pruning etc. Often done by school caretaker.
- Cyclical, eg painting
- Specialist/technical eg servicing of boiler, gas appliances or air conditioning units that needs to be done by qualified tradespeople. If you can’t find a tradesperson for what you need, contact your property advisor who’ll be able to help you find someone.
- Property maintenance paid for by property maintenance grant (PMG), which is based on the size of your site and your assets.
- Responsibility for property can be delegated - some schools have a property manager but they still work closely with the principal.
- Any maintenance job over $100,000 in value needs to go through procurement process.
- Building warrants of fitness or B-WOF needs to be done annually.
- Argest completes compliance checks and B-WOF inspections for all state schools.
Additional information
A 10YPP contains: - a property assessment - a 10 year maintenance plan for the school (including a cyclical maintenance schedule for things like repainting) and - a 10 year capital works plan - split into a current 5YA and a proposed future 5YA.
Ministry of Education property portal https://property.education.govt.nz
Facilities and operations https://www.education.govt.nz/education-professionals/schools-year-0-13/facilities-and-operations
Planning property maintenance (including maintenance plans) https://www.education.govt.nz/education-professionals/schools-year-0-13/facilities-and-operations/planning-property-maintenance#paragraph-4911
Questions
2:03 [De] When a new tumuaki arrives in a school, what's the best way for them to get their head around property maintenance and what they as part of the board are responsible for?
3:00 [De] Can you tell me about the different types of maintenance for school property?
4:16 [De] How is school maintenance funded?
5:50 [De] who would normally be doing maintenance in a school.
6:59 [De] For some things, schools need to go through a procurement process for maintenance. Under which circumstances would that need to happen?
7:41 [De] Is there a dollar point at which that kicks in?
8:26 [Nick/Alistair] Who looks after the maintenance at your kura?
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Eleisha (00:07):
Kia ora and welcome to The Principals, a podcast series
for new tumuaki in Aotearoa NewZealand. I'm Eleisha McNeill.
Today we're talking about stateschool property maintenance.
School boards, which include thetumuaki, are responsible for
overseeing the maintenance oftheir kura. Good maintenance,
keeps schools safe and preventssmall problems from escalating
(00:29):
into big ones that needexpensive repair. Just a
reminder that you can find moreinformation on this topic and
others in the e-learning modules,and there's a link to those in
the show notes.Here are my
Um so kia ora, I'm De Thompson,I'm based in the Ministry
Dunedin office, infrastructuremanager so I lead a team of
(00:49):
property advisors that assistschools with all that
encompasses property. And I'vebeen at the Ministry for just
gone nine years now.
Thank you, Nick.
Nick (00:59):
Yeah. Kia ora ko Nick Reed toku ingoa, ko tumuaki o te kura
Havelock North Primary School.I'm Nick Reed, I've been
principal here at Havelock NorthPrimary for just over nine years.
Prior to that, I was principalat Ashurst Primary School, just
north of Palmerston North forseven and a half years, and
prior to that principal at OpikiSchool, which is a little school
(01:21):
just south of Palmerston North.So yeah, kia ora, welcome.
Eleisha (01:25):
It sounds idyllic. Um Alistair.
Alistair (01:28):
Kia ora ko Alistair Luke toku ingoa, ko te tumuaki o
te kura a rohe au Whangamata.Alistair Luke, principal of
Whangamata Area School, I'vebeen principal here for the past
eight years now, I've been atschool for 16. Prior to that I
was at Rotorua Lakes High School,Rotorua is the town I grew up
and and for the last six yearsI've also been chairperson of
(01:50):
the Central North IslandSecondary Principals Association.
So wear a few hats as we all doafter a bit of time in the
sector. But great to great to behere today having a chat. Kia
ora
Eleisha (02:02):
De, if I can start with you, please. When a new tumuaki
arrives in a school, what's thebest way for them to get their
head around property maintenanceand what they as part of the
board are responsible for?
Yeah sure so a really good placeto start would be the education
website, it's as easy as usingthe search bar to type in
(02:24):
property maintenance, and thattakes you to a really
comprehensive maintenance guide,as well as templates for
planning maintenance and a wholelot of other information. That
would probably be your yourfirst biggest tool. There's
absolutely modules on theEducation learning management
system, and additionally theMinistry do run quarterly
(02:45):
infrastructure forums so there'sinformation to share there as
it's topical. And then above allelse, I would say that your
property advisor is that humanface or human contact to be the
point of contact for anythingyou need as you learn the ropes.
Fantastic. Can you tell me a little bit about the
different types of maintenancefor school property?
(03:06):
Yeah, sure. So I would saythere's probably three main
types of maintenance that aschool encounter, and that would
be firstly your regularmaintenance. So day to day tasks
and general preventativemaintenance, like your exterior
building wash downs, gutter anddown pipe cleaning, pruning and
planting of trees or bushes.You've got your cyclical
(03:29):
maintenance, which is thosesignificant maintenance issues
that are completed on a cycle.Most commonly is your exterior
painting on that 7 to 10 yearcycle. And then you'll have your
specialist or technicalmaintenance and that's the
maintenance that's undertaken bya qualified tradesperson like
(03:50):
annual servicing of boilers orgas appliances or switchboards
or your air conditioning units.And this is where I would say
that the routine maintenanceplan template is really valuable
Hm.
because it outlines thosemaintenance items in their
categories, it will give you arecommended frequency and it
becomes a running record of whenyou've attended to the
(04:13):
maintenance and when it's nextdue.
Fantastic. How, how is school maintenance funded?
So your maintenance is fundedthrough your property
maintenance grant or otherwiseknown as your PMG funding. It's
part of a school's operationalfunding that is paid to a school
on a quarterly basis. It is aformula based calculation. Not
(04:37):
very exciting to go into thedetails of. But what I would say
is that the funding iscalculated based on your assets
and your site size. So as aprincipal, if you get the time
or have those conversations withyour advisor, be aware of your
site and your buildings andensure that what you have is how
(04:58):
we are recording it in our assetsystem, be it's those square
meterage and gross calculations,is how we generate your funding
entitlement. Don't take that onboard though, don't take that as
an ownership, it's your propertyadvisor's job to ensure our
system is accurate and they willbring that data to school visits
or conversations with you, butif you were in the property
(05:22):
portal and you saw anydiscrepancies or a building not
recorded, raise it with yourproperty advisor. Lack
Hmm
of data will affect your PMGfunding. So it's just a wee side
note if you're thinking, hey,look, I've completed a project,
I've reconfigured space or I'veadded space - that will affect
your funding. So just anawareness is probably what I
(05:45):
would say to new principals.
Yeah, good to be aware of that. And who's, well, you
mentioned there a few differentpeople who could be doing
maintenance in a school, but whowould normally be doing
maintenance in a school.
Yes, sure. And so your regularmaintenance generally is
something that can be taken careof by a school caretaker. And I
say that as an if you have one.We are absolutely aware not
(06:07):
every school has a caretaker onstaff and that's where it gets a
little bit more tricky, right?So I have absolute respect for
how schools manage theirmaintenance when you don't have
a caretaker on staff, you know,maybe you're a principal one day
and you're a caretaker the next.But there are varying roles
within a school, caretaker orwilling volunteers that can do
(06:30):
that regular maintenance. Alwaysmake sure that your technical
stuff is taken care of by aqualified tradesperson. But what
I would say is if you have aneed and you can't find a
tradesperson or you're not surewhere to turn, I'll always go
back to advising you contactyour property advisor.
hmm.
We are in the know with localproject managers who who will
(06:52):
know which trades are in thearea, who's got availability.
We're always on hand to help ifyou do get stuck.
Fantastic. And can you tell me and you know, for some
things, schools need to gothrough a procurement process
for maintenance, under whatcircumstances would would that
need to happen?
Yeah, sure. We would generallysay the procurement process for
(07:15):
your capital funding is the sameprocess you should apply to your
maintenance funding, and more soat that upper end level. So if
you were procuring a paintingcontract which over a five year
period might have a large value,you would be required to tender
(07:35):
that via an open tender on GETS,the government
Mm hmm.
electronic tendering service.
Is there a dollar point at which that kicks in?
Yes. So anything over $100,000in value of the project or that
or the budget does need to govia GETS. There are lesser
thresholds. So less than $10,000 go ahead and direct apppoint
(07:57):
as appropriate. $10, 000-$99,000 always try and obtain
multiple competitive quotes, butfor both of those thresholds
test the market. So
Mm hmm.
don't don't just go with JoeBloggs plumber if they are, you
know, the one that's most oftenfeatured on the radio, go for
the one that offers that bestservice best quality, making
(08:21):
sure that you're always keepingcompetitive. So so you know,
you're getting best value formoney.
Yeah, absolutely. And Alastair, Nick, who looks after
the maintenance and your kura?Maybe start with you, Nick?
Nick (08:35):
Yeah well, I'm lucky enough to have a caretaker, I
remember when I first startedout as in a small school I was
the caretaker, the painter, youknow, the jack of all trades and
a master of none. But I'm luckyto have a full time caretaker
who does a wonderful job. Wehave a doc that we set up where
staff can just put down anyareas of maintenance that they
(08:58):
see, as well as a hazardsregister and a near miss
register. We have a Health andSafety Committee team that meet
prior to a board meeting thatinvolves my two DPs and a member
of our board and Marty thecaretaker. So we go through
quite thoroughly what's gone onfor the month. Look at any
accidents that have happened andthat gets reported back to the
(09:20):
board the following week at ourmeeting.
Eleisha (09:23):
And every now and then, I guess you have to hire
plumbers and, you know, peoplelike that as those needs arise.
Nick (09:29):
Yeah, well, as was said before, we're lucky Marty is a
sort of guy that can turn hishands to a lot of things, but he
knows his limits as well. So,yes, certainly for those
specialist areas, we have somegood relationships and I can't
stress that enough for newtumuaki is to, you know, get
those good relationships, lookafter your people. And generally,
(09:49):
if you look after your people,you get good results because and
Alistair I'm sure will vouch forthat as a school, you need
someone, a tradie who can be ontap, whether it's for a toilet
or, or a leakage or whatever,you know. So it's important that
you've got some key people wecan call upon.
Eleisha (10:04):
Alistair, what about you? Who looks after maintenance
in your kura?
Alistair (10:07):
Yeah, like Nick we're lucky enough to have a caretaker,
property manager. We also have aa grounds person that works in
that space as well. So again,very fortunate to have that the
infrastructure on site that wedo. But I completely tautoko
what Nick said aboutrelationships with your trades
folks and your localprofessionals, particularly in
(10:28):
the context of a small school ora small community, those
tradespeople that not only offervalue but also know your site
and sometimes when it comes toissue diagnostics and such,like
having someone that knowsexactly how things are speced up
from a wiring or a plumbing oran underground point of view can
be really handy. So building arelationship that that's lasting
(10:51):
and healthy is really importantand saves time and money in the
long run.
Eleisha (10:55):
Definitely. Can you just kind of give me an overview
of what kinds of maintenance hasbeen needed in your school in
the last kind of year or so.
Alistair (11:05):
Well, painting's ongoing. I think in that
cyclical maintenance, if I couldgive one piece of advice, is
make sure your, the provisionfor cyclical maintenance that's
going through your books isactually reflected in the cash
that you have on hand. I've seenfolks get into a little bit of
bother where they've on papermade provision for cyclical
maintenance, but when the timecomes to actually commit to that
(11:27):
big contract, you need to havecash on hand to be able to get
stuck in there. So painting isone element, but things like
electrical testing, which is anannual thing, servicing of heat
pumps, which you mentionedbefore, is ongoing and making
sure that you've got a goodregister there around those
sorts of things because onceagain might seem like an expense
(11:48):
upfront, but you're prolongingthe life of some of those big
infrastructure items. And overtime that will save you money
because there's nothing moreinconvenient than sort of ten
heat pumps or nine ovens in yourfood technology room all kicking
the bucket at the same time so Iguess good systems, processes,
relationships and having goodtouch points with your property
(12:10):
staff. We like Nick, have aweekly meeting with it with the
property team, just to make surethat we can kind of be proactive
around any issues that thatmight be emerging because it
will it will never cost you lesstomorrow to look at a problem
than it will cost you today toto fix it now would be my
overarching piece of adviceabout property.
Eleisha (12:32):
What about you, Nick?
Alistair (12:34):
I mean, this year has been a bit of a different one.
We've had a lot of maintenance,we've had neighbours complaining
about large oak trees, so we'vespent a lot of money on just
maintaining the the foliagearound the place, but as
Alistair said around thatmaintenance, I mean we've had
all our heat pumps hydro blastedthis year which did cost us a
little bit more, but it'scertainly going to prolong the
(12:55):
life of those assets andcertainly the teachers talk
about the greater efficiency andhow well these pumps are working
as a result of that. So it'sjust it's just staying on top of
your game, really. It's a bitlike your own home. You, you
treat it like that. You lookaround and you try and refine
your practices. The 5YA is is anice thing to have every five
(13:19):
years. I mean we'd had some,some bits of maintenance that
were ongoing around our sewerpipes and, and issues and we
were lucky enough to redo thosein the last 12 months which you
know, long term is going to saveus a lot of money. So it's just
staying on top of things andbeing aware of, of what your
weak points around your school,I guess.
Eleisha (13:38):
And how hands on are you? Like, how big a role do you
play as tumuaki in that propertymaintenance stuff?
Alistair (13:46):
Yeah, I mean, I guess it depends. I mean, we've got
some PMC building that's due tobe taken away by the Ministry,
al that's been put on hold. Soit needed some paint work over
the holidays. So I actuallylooked at the cost of the quote
and thought, oh, we only needthis for a couple of years. So I
rolled up my sleeves and and didit myself over a week. But
(14:08):
generally not that hands on. Imean, I meet regularly with
contractors, certainly regardingany capital works. But Marty,
the caretaker he he's got hiscontacts, he he looks after
those and yeah basically my jobis really just to support him in
his work and ensure that we'remeeting regularly as a team. And,
(14:29):
and I'm in the loop with wherethings are at.
Eleisha (14:32):
And Alistair, you mentioned you have a property
manager.
Alistair (14:34):
Yeah. And we, we communicate every week. I think
when you start out as a tumuaki,you feel like you need to be
across everything and you knowto some extent have your hands
on everything. And I think itslowly but surely as you start
to trust the very good peoplethat you have inside your school,
you can start to let that ropeout a bit. And I would encourage
folks to to see property as oneof the things that you really
(14:56):
can start to let the rope out onvery early in the piece. But
making sure that you have thosetouch points because my
experience of the property folksthat I've worked with is they
are very invested in the workthat they do and they're
exceptionally proud of thecampus that they present and
maintain. And that runs from theplaying fields through to the
classrooms that that we open upevery morning. So make sure that
(15:18):
you're in regular contact withthose people, but really trust
those people to be across thethings that are in the best
interests of the school. And Ithink it it can be something for
a new principal that can reallyquickly help you get into the
core business of, you know, whatwe're good at. We're not
appointed principals becausewe're property experts, it's
something that comes with theterritory, but it is very much
(15:40):
not our territory. And in termsof being hands on, I would
damage the educational propertyportfolio if I tried to do much
to it with my handyman skills.So it's about trusting the
people that do have the skillsthat you don't and I think
property is a really goodexample of that
Eleisha (15:57):
Yeah. Yeah. So you have an overseeing role. But day to
day stuff is managed, you know,is outsourced.
Alistair (16:03):
Yeah very much so. I think like Nick said, the bigger
the scale of the project,probably the more involved you
become. So once you get intothose big 5YA
Eleisha (16:11):
Mm
Alistair (16:12):
projects, then by necessity you're across that to
a degree because therelationship changes. You're
then working with an externalproject manager generally
speaking, and there does need tobe a little bit more executive
oversight there for want of abetter term.
Eleisha (16:26):
hmm.
Alistair (16:26):
But when you're just dealing with that day to day
maintenance stuff, be informed,but really do trust those people
who are on the ground anddelivering something pretty cool
and they're really proud by andlarge of what they do do.
Eleisha (16:40):
That's awesome. De, I wanted to ask you about building
warrants of fitness. What arethey and how often do they have
to be done.
Yeah sure. So your buildingwarrant of fitness or commonly
known as your B-WOF. So it is alegal requirement that
ultimately produces acertificate to confirm the
building's systems are safe andwell-maintained and can be
(17:03):
occupied. Those inspections arecarried out annually, and once
you've passed all requirements,you do display your certificate
somewhere publicly in the school,like your admin area. Very, very
important to ensure that theoccupants of those buildings are
kept safe while they use the,use the buildings.
And so what is it certifying, is it certifying the
(17:25):
safety of the electrical systems,the? Like what? What?
Yeah, exactly that, so lots ofmany different things. So it
generally comes down to acompliance schedule that is
specific to an individual school,
Right.
but they will be systems likeautomatic sprinklers or
emergency lighting, lifts, ormechanical ventilation, things
that are referred to asspecialist systems that do need
(17:48):
to be checked frequently.
Okay, so what about the structure of a building, you
know, like a car warrant offitness also applies to the body
of the car, is a buildingwarrant of fitness applied to
the
Yeah.
body of the building.
There are elements that that doneed to be checked like that.
And what we do see frominspections for building warrant
of fitnesses, is you will, ifthere is an issue with your
(18:09):
building or something that ismaking it unsafe to occupy is
where a school will be issued awork requirement notice and
sometimes they are as simple asa fire exit has been blocked by
school bags or a rubbish bin,something specific to that day,
which is unfortunate on the daythe inspection happened. But we
have to ensure that every partof that building that can be
(18:29):
accessed and exited quickly isas safe and compliant on the day
of inspection and every otherday going forward.
Yeah. So it's a legal requirement. So what are the
risks of not having buildingwarrants of fitness?
So no warrant of fitness, itcould ultimately result in
council fines and that's at thediscretion of individual
(18:51):
councils, or school closureuntil the buildings are deemed
to be safe. We have found morefrequently councils are more
happy to issue fines wherebefore we could have a bit of
leeway around explaining thatitems are underway for repair.
But it ultimately comes down toa council that would say you are
(19:12):
deemed unsafe and you are notcomplying. So unfortunately here
is your fine until you do comply.
Okay, and who does those inspections?
So the Ministry use Argest,Argest are the firm that
complete our compliance checksand the B-WOF inspections for
all state schools, and that isthrough either visiting your
(19:32):
school every month or few weeks,they carry out compliance checks.
They will help schools toarrange any repairs that are
identified and they willcomplete your B-WOF inspection
at least six weeks before itsdue date.
Oh, fantastic. Back to you, Nick and Alistair. There's
a lot of maintenance that has tobe done outside of the buildings
(19:55):
themselves. You know, the schoolgrounds, there's playgrounds,
there's swimming pools, biketracks, you know, all sort of
car parks, all sorts of things.When you first started as a
tumuaki in a school, how did youget your head around all of the
maintenance that was requiredfor those kind of, you know,
peripheral things around theschool buildings Nick?
Nick (20:15):
It's really just leaning on your people. Like there's a
lot of good colleagues, you know,as experienced principals love
to help newcomers out and it'snot difficult, but it's just
yeah, as we talked about earlier,you know, you're not expected to
be an expert, but do reach outbecause there are people who are
and people who have done theyards and they're only too
willing to point you in theright direction. So and as well
(20:38):
as that, you'll have a projectmanager. We've got a guy, Tim,
who's amazing. Certainly I don'tthink the tradespeople like him
because he's rather pedantic,but you know, he's ensuring that
we get good bang for buck, andwe've got a very knowledgeable
property person on our boardwho's also a really good person
to lean on as well. And as Imentioned before, local
(21:01):
principals are there to help.You know, we've all been we've
all been there before. We've allbeen the newcomer. And it's
really important to to reach outwhen you need to. So there are a
lot of people out there who aremore than willing to put their
hand up.
Eleisha (21:13):
Alistair, what would you add to that?
Alistair (21:15):
Yeah totally agree. Build networks, have those phone
numbers in your phone and don'tbe scared to call them. Like
Nick said experienced principalsare only too happy to help
colleagues who are starting outbecause we were all those people
once. And don't be scared to useyour networks. And the other
thing I'd say just from amaintenance point of view is
(21:36):
walk the school with yourproperty people and just get an
overview of of what it takes dayto day to keep the to keep the
ship looking good because thathas an impact on budgeting and
the hours you can allocate intothat particular space. Some
properties have many differentaccess points and that has a
bearing on what needs to belooked after and managed. So
(21:59):
just getting out and walking theschool and leaning on the people
who have got the existingknowledge, because when you come
into a place new, there is a lotof institutional knowledge in
there that is just waiting foryou to unlock it. But it's it's
just about being able to makethe time when you're starting
out to to unlock all that stuffthat's in there and then I guess
sift the good stuff from perhapssome of the stuff that is a
(22:21):
little bit grounded inself-interest and in other
things because because thathappens as well. Everyone,
everyone wants to get their,their time with the new person
don't they, and you know makesure that they're positioned
well under this new regime canbe a little bit scary for
everyone. So lean on that, leanon the knowledge. And you know,
from a property point of view,learn what it takes to make the
(22:42):
place tick, but also make sureyou're sifting and sorting as
you get overwhelmed with allthat new stuff.
Eleisha (22:47):
Some great advice there. Would you have any other advice
for new tumuaki when it comes toproperty maintenance, maybe De,
start with you.
Yeah, sure. I jotted downprobably half a dozen just key
points I would stress to anyonenew. Check what maintenance
plans or schedules that arealready in place at a school so
(23:09):
you can see what has alreadybeen happening and what you need
to check up on. Engage with yourproperty advisor on anything
you're unsure of. In the firstsix months of a new
principalship, your propertyadvisor is on hand to come out
to present to you a property 101.It sounds riveting I know, but
it's it's there as a tool. So weknow you probably don't want to
(23:31):
see property in the first sixmonths there's so much you have
to get your head around but it'sthere and it's a useful
presentation to keep on file. Iwould absolutely say use the
maintenance plan templates soyou can keep a running record
and a frequency record of yourmaintenance. Talk to your
neighbouring schools andleadership. They will give you
everything you need to know. Onething that I would stress and it
(23:56):
was raised earlier, when itcomes to your cyclical
maintenance, I would highlyrecommend that funding is kept
in a separate bank accountbecause not only, as you say, it
needs to be accounted for inyour in your books, but when it
comes time to need to do thosesignificant areas of painting,
we often find that sometimesthat money has been muddled into
general operations and it's justnot on hand. So if there's one
(24:19):
portion of your operational PMGfunding I would say, put that
funding in a separate account.And the last thing I would say
is that your maintenanceknowledge from your property
people on the ground is a reallyvaluable tool for your capital
planning. They know if areas ofthe school flood or drains don't
(24:40):
work. They know which areas ofthe school are more worn or
where there might be maintenanceissues that could lead into
capital. So when we do ourproperty planning with you, we
will want to speak to and engagewith your property people
because they will be the firstport of call to understand
what's going on at your school.
Definitely. Nick What would your advice be?
Nick (25:00):
Yeah, just a lot of the same really. But obviously when
it comes to your 5YA, I thinkone thing that's been helpful
for new tumuaki is around theconditional assessment because
you heard stories about schoolswho had leaky gutterings and
minor things that should havebeen dealt with. I mean our
recent 5YA was a bit depressingreally. I mean, $480,000 dollars
(25:22):
of it was spent on reroofing. Soyou didn't see a lot of it. But,
you know, it just means thatlong term we're not going to
have issues with the maintenance,with leaky roofs, and that's
going to be someone else'sproblem after I've gone and
built the flash thing at thefront of the school and left
everything else to fall apart sothat, you know, even though a
project manager is roughly about8% of every project that's being
(25:46):
done, it's money well spent. Andit's also ensuring that the
Ministry or the Ministry isensuring their properly is being
well looked after. So yeah, andcertainly the Ministry staff, my
local guy is a wonderful humanbeing and I'm sure you all have
those people around the country,so lean on them, work with them.
We're all here for the samepurpose and that's to provide
(26:06):
quality education to ourstudents.
Eleisha (26:09):
Alistair.
Alistair (26:10):
Yeah probably just building on what Nick said a
little bit. It's also, I thinkit's about building a really
good relationship with yourboard when it comes to property.
I know I can speak for the boardhere in Whangamata, probably
more than any other element ofthe general business of the
school, the board are highlyengaged with property,
particularly when it comes to5YA. And like Nick said, not
(26:32):
every 5YA project you can do canbe what I call a ribbon cutter,
i.e. you're going to get thisfancy new classroom where the
mayor will come along and cutthe ribbon and put the plaque up.
Sometimes you just need to dothat core infrastructure work
and commit a significant portionof your funding to that. And
once again, like Nick said, itis about playing a long game and
(26:53):
helping your board to understandthe responsibility that we have
to the overall propertyportfolio that the Education
Ministry holds on our behalf,because people can get quite
emotive too when it comes
Eleisha (27:03):
Hmm.
Alistair (27:04):
to property. You'll have very, very strong and often
competing and contradictoryvoices in your ear. So once
again, property advisers andpeople like that that can come
in without emotion or withoutnecessarily local context and
help you out in some of thoseconversations, which can get a
little bit challenging at times,I think is is a really
(27:24):
intelligent use of that advisorresource as well.
Eleisha (27:27):
Absolutely. Is there anything you wanted to add that
we haven't covered aboutproperty maintenance?
I think I would just hit homeagain that we're here to help.
We want to make sure thatproperty is functioning well for
all schools, but that it's notburdening schools or leadership.
So you will have your in-housestaff that are tasked with
(27:48):
maintenance or capital upgradesat a school. But if you're
unsure of anything, don't spendhours scrolling through our
website trying to find theanswer. Just pick up the phone,
call your property advisor,flick them an email, ask them to
come and see you, we'll takethat burden from you and help
you through all that is property.
Nick (28:05):
Yeah, I think that's a really key message. I mean, our
key focus is teaching andlearning and yeah property can
be one of those things that canbe all encompassing. So yeah,
there are key people out therewho know far more than we do, so
use them.
Eleisha (28:18):
Definitely. You were all awesome. Thank you so much.
Alistair (28:21):
Hey take care team.
Right
That.
Eleisha (28:24):
See you. In the next episode we're going to be
talking about managing schoolproperty projects. See you then.
Kia ora and welcome to The Principals, a podcast series
for new tumuaki in Aotearoa NewZealand. I'm Eleisha McNeill.
Today we're talking about stateschool property maintenance.
School boards, which include thetumuaki, are responsible for
overseeing the maintenance oftheir kura. Good maintenance,
keeps schools safe and preventssmall problems from escalating
(00:29):
into big ones that needexpensive repair. Just a
reminder that you can find moreinformation on this topic and
others in the e-learning modules,and there's a link to those in
the show notes.Here are my
Um so kia ora, I'm De Thompson,I'm based in the Ministry
Dunedin office, infrastructuremanager so I lead a team of
(00:49):
property advisors that assistschools with all that
encompasses property. And I'vebeen at the Ministry for just
gone nine years now.
Thank you, Nick.
Nick (00:59):
Yeah. Kia ora ko Nick Reed toku ingoa, ko tumuaki o te kura
Havelock North Primary School.I'm Nick Reed, I've been
principal here at Havelock NorthPrimary for just over nine years.
Prior to that, I was principalat Ashurst Primary School, just
north of Palmerston North forseven and a half years, and
prior to that principal at OpikiSchool, which is a little school
(01:21):
just south of Palmerston North.So yeah, kia ora, welcome.
Eleisha (01:25):
It sounds idyllic. Um Alistair.
Alistair (01:28):
Kia ora ko Alistair Luke toku ingoa, ko te tumuaki o
te kura a rohe au Whangamata.Alistair Luke, principal of
Whangamata Area School, I'vebeen principal here for the past
eight years now, I've been atschool for 16. Prior to that I
was at Rotorua Lakes High School,Rotorua is the town I grew up
and and for the last six yearsI've also been chairperson of
(01:50):
the Central North IslandSecondary Principals Association.
So wear a few hats as we all doafter a bit of time in the
sector. But great to great to behere today having a chat. Kia
ora
Eleisha (02:02):
De, if I can start with you, please. When a new tumuaki
arrives in a school, what's thebest way for them to get their
head around property maintenanceand what they as part of the
board are responsible for?
Yeah sure so a really good placeto start would be the education
website, it's as easy as usingthe search bar to type in
(02:24):
property maintenance, and thattakes you to a really
comprehensive maintenance guide,as well as templates for
planning maintenance and a wholelot of other information. That
would probably be your yourfirst biggest tool. There's
absolutely modules on theEducation learning management
system, and additionally theMinistry do run quarterly
(02:45):
infrastructure forums so there'sinformation to share there as
it's topical. And then above allelse, I would say that your
property advisor is that humanface or human contact to be the
point of contact for anythingyou need as you learn the ropes.
Fantastic. Can you tell me a little bit about the
different types of maintenancefor school property?
(03:06):
Yeah, sure. So I would saythere's probably three main
types of maintenance that aschool encounter, and that would
be firstly your regularmaintenance. So day to day tasks
and general preventativemaintenance, like your exterior
building wash downs, gutter anddown pipe cleaning, pruning and
planting of trees or bushes.You've got your cyclical
(03:29):
maintenance, which is thosesignificant maintenance issues
that are completed on a cycle.Most commonly is your exterior
painting on that 7 to 10 yearcycle. And then you'll have your
specialist or technicalmaintenance and that's the
maintenance that's undertaken bya qualified tradesperson like
(03:50):
annual servicing of boilers orgas appliances or switchboards
or your air conditioning units.And this is where I would say
that the routine maintenanceplan template is really valuable
Hm.
because it outlines thosemaintenance items in their
categories, it will give you arecommended frequency and it
becomes a running record of whenyou've attended to the
(04:13):
maintenance and when it's nextdue.
Fantastic. How, how is school maintenance funded?
So your maintenance is fundedthrough your property
maintenance grant or otherwiseknown as your PMG funding. It's
part of a school's operationalfunding that is paid to a school
on a quarterly basis. It is aformula based calculation. Not
(04:37):
very exciting to go into thedetails of. But what I would say
is that the funding iscalculated based on your assets
and your site size. So as aprincipal, if you get the time
or have those conversations withyour advisor, be aware of your
site and your buildings andensure that what you have is how
(04:58):
we are recording it in our assetsystem, be it's those square
meterage and gross calculations,is how we generate your funding
entitlement. Don't take that onboard though, don't take that as
an ownership, it's your propertyadvisor's job to ensure our
system is accurate and they willbring that data to school visits
or conversations with you, butif you were in the property
(05:22):
portal and you saw anydiscrepancies or a building not
recorded, raise it with yourproperty advisor. Lack
Hmm
of data will affect your PMGfunding. So it's just a wee side
note if you're thinking, hey,look, I've completed a project,
I've reconfigured space or I'veadded space - that will affect
your funding. So just anawareness is probably what I
(05:45):
would say to new principals.
Yeah, good to be aware of that. And who's, well, you
mentioned there a few differentpeople who could be doing
maintenance in a school, but whowould normally be doing
maintenance in a school.
Yes, sure. And so your regularmaintenance generally is
something that can be taken careof by a school caretaker. And I
say that as an if you have one.We are absolutely aware not
(06:07):
every school has a caretaker onstaff and that's where it gets a
little bit more tricky, right?So I have absolute respect for
how schools manage theirmaintenance when you don't have
a caretaker on staff, you know,maybe you're a principal one day
and you're a caretaker the next.But there are varying roles
within a school, caretaker orwilling volunteers that can do
(06:30):
that regular maintenance. Alwaysmake sure that your technical
stuff is taken care of by aqualified tradesperson. But what
I would say is if you have aneed and you can't find a
tradesperson or you're not surewhere to turn, I'll always go
back to advising you contactyour property advisor.
hmm.
We are in the know with localproject managers who who will
(06:52):
know which trades are in thearea, who's got availability.
We're always on hand to help ifyou do get stuck.
Fantastic. And can you tell me and you know, for some
things, schools need to gothrough a procurement process
for maintenance, under whatcircumstances would would that
need to happen?
Yeah, sure. We would generallysay the procurement process for
(07:15):
your capital funding is the sameprocess you should apply to your
maintenance funding, and more soat that upper end level. So if
you were procuring a paintingcontract which over a five year
period might have a large value,you would be required to tender
(07:35):
that via an open tender on GETS,the government
Mm hmm.
electronic tendering service.
Is there a dollar point at which that kicks in?
Yes. So anything over $100,000in value of the project or that
or the budget does need to govia GETS. There are lesser
thresholds. So less than $10,000 go ahead and direct apppoint
(07:57):
as appropriate. $10, 000-$99,000 always try and obtain
multiple competitive quotes, butfor both of those thresholds
test the market. So
Mm hmm.
don't don't just go with JoeBloggs plumber if they are, you
know, the one that's most oftenfeatured on the radio, go for
the one that offers that bestservice best quality, making
(08:21):
sure that you're always keepingcompetitive. So so you know,
you're getting best value formoney.
Yeah, absolutely. And Alastair, Nick, who looks after
the maintenance and your kura?Maybe start with you, Nick?
Nick (08:35):
Yeah well, I'm lucky enough to have a caretaker, I
remember when I first startedout as in a small school I was
the caretaker, the painter, youknow, the jack of all trades and
a master of none. But I'm luckyto have a full time caretaker
who does a wonderful job. Wehave a doc that we set up where
staff can just put down anyareas of maintenance that they
(08:58):
see, as well as a hazardsregister and a near miss
register. We have a Health andSafety Committee team that meet
prior to a board meeting thatinvolves my two DPs and a member
of our board and Marty thecaretaker. So we go through
quite thoroughly what's gone onfor the month. Look at any
accidents that have happened andthat gets reported back to the
(09:20):
board the following week at ourmeeting.
Eleisha (09:23):
And every now and then, I guess you have to hire
plumbers and, you know, peoplelike that as those needs arise.
Nick (09:29):
Yeah, well, as was said before, we're lucky Marty is a
sort of guy that can turn hishands to a lot of things, but he
knows his limits as well. So,yes, certainly for those
specialist areas, we have somegood relationships and I can't
stress that enough for newtumuaki is to, you know, get
those good relationships, lookafter your people. And generally,
(09:49):
if you look after your people,you get good results because and
Alistair I'm sure will vouch forthat as a school, you need
someone, a tradie who can be ontap, whether it's for a toilet
or, or a leakage or whatever,you know. So it's important that
you've got some key people wecan call upon.
Eleisha (10:04):
Alistair, what about you? Who looks after maintenance
in your kura?
Alistair (10:07):
Yeah, like Nick we're lucky enough to have a caretaker,
property manager. We also have aa grounds person that works in
that space as well. So again,very fortunate to have that the
infrastructure on site that wedo. But I completely tautoko
what Nick said aboutrelationships with your trades
folks and your localprofessionals, particularly in
(10:28):
the context of a small school ora small community, those
tradespeople that not only offervalue but also know your site
and sometimes when it comes toissue diagnostics and such,like
having someone that knowsexactly how things are speced up
from a wiring or a plumbing oran underground point of view can
be really handy. So building arelationship that that's lasting
(10:51):
and healthy is really importantand saves time and money in the
long run.
Eleisha (10:55):
Definitely. Can you just kind of give me an overview
of what kinds of maintenance hasbeen needed in your school in
the last kind of year or so.
Alistair (11:05):
Well, painting's ongoing. I think in that
cyclical maintenance, if I couldgive one piece of advice, is
make sure your, the provisionfor cyclical maintenance that's
going through your books isactually reflected in the cash
that you have on hand. I've seenfolks get into a little bit of
bother where they've on papermade provision for cyclical
maintenance, but when the timecomes to actually commit to that
(11:27):
big contract, you need to havecash on hand to be able to get
stuck in there. So painting isone element, but things like
electrical testing, which is anannual thing, servicing of heat
pumps, which you mentionedbefore, is ongoing and making
sure that you've got a goodregister there around those
sorts of things because onceagain might seem like an expense
(11:48):
upfront, but you're prolongingthe life of some of those big
infrastructure items. And overtime that will save you money
because there's nothing moreinconvenient than sort of ten
heat pumps or nine ovens in yourfood technology room all kicking
the bucket at the same time so Iguess good systems, processes,
relationships and having goodtouch points with your property
(12:10):
staff. We like Nick, have aweekly meeting with it with the
property team, just to make surethat we can kind of be proactive
around any issues that thatmight be emerging because it
will it will never cost you lesstomorrow to look at a problem
than it will cost you today toto fix it now would be my
overarching piece of adviceabout property.
Eleisha (12:32):
What about you, Nick?
Alistair (12:34):
I mean, this year has been a bit of a different one.
We've had a lot of maintenance,we've had neighbours complaining
about large oak trees, so we'vespent a lot of money on just
maintaining the the foliagearound the place, but as
Alistair said around thatmaintenance, I mean we've had
all our heat pumps hydro blastedthis year which did cost us a
little bit more, but it'scertainly going to prolong the
(12:55):
life of those assets andcertainly the teachers talk
about the greater efficiency andhow well these pumps are working
as a result of that. So it'sjust it's just staying on top of
your game, really. It's a bitlike your own home. You, you
treat it like that. You lookaround and you try and refine
your practices. The 5YA is is anice thing to have every five
(13:19):
years. I mean we'd had some,some bits of maintenance that
were ongoing around our sewerpipes and, and issues and we
were lucky enough to redo thosein the last 12 months which you
know, long term is going to saveus a lot of money. So it's just
staying on top of things andbeing aware of, of what your
weak points around your school,I guess.
Eleisha (13:38):
And how hands on are you? Like, how big a role do you
play as tumuaki in that propertymaintenance stuff?
Alistair (13:46):
Yeah, I mean, I guess it depends. I mean, we've got
some PMC building that's due tobe taken away by the Ministry,
al that's been put on hold. Soit needed some paint work over
the holidays. So I actuallylooked at the cost of the quote
and thought, oh, we only needthis for a couple of years. So I
rolled up my sleeves and and didit myself over a week. But
(14:08):
generally not that hands on. Imean, I meet regularly with
contractors, certainly regardingany capital works. But Marty,
the caretaker he he's got hiscontacts, he he looks after
those and yeah basically my jobis really just to support him in
his work and ensure that we'remeeting regularly as a team. And,
(14:29):
and I'm in the loop with wherethings are at.
Eleisha (14:32):
And Alistair, you mentioned you have a property
manager.
Alistair (14:34):
Yeah. And we, we communicate every week. I think
when you start out as a tumuaki,you feel like you need to be
across everything and you knowto some extent have your hands
on everything. And I think itslowly but surely as you start
to trust the very good peoplethat you have inside your school,
you can start to let that ropeout a bit. And I would encourage
folks to to see property as oneof the things that you really
(14:56):
can start to let the rope out onvery early in the piece. But
making sure that you have thosetouch points because my
experience of the property folksthat I've worked with is they
are very invested in the workthat they do and they're
exceptionally proud of thecampus that they present and
maintain. And that runs from theplaying fields through to the
classrooms that that we open upevery morning. So make sure that
(15:18):
you're in regular contact withthose people, but really trust
those people to be across thethings that are in the best
interests of the school. And Ithink it it can be something for
a new principal that can reallyquickly help you get into the
core business of, you know, whatwe're good at. We're not
appointed principals becausewe're property experts, it's
something that comes with theterritory, but it is very much
(15:40):
not our territory. And in termsof being hands on, I would
damage the educational propertyportfolio if I tried to do much
to it with my handyman skills.So it's about trusting the
people that do have the skillsthat you don't and I think
property is a really goodexample of that
Eleisha (15:57):
Yeah. Yeah. So you have an overseeing role. But day to
day stuff is managed, you know,is outsourced.
Alistair (16:03):
Yeah very much so. I think like Nick said, the bigger
the scale of the project,probably the more involved you
become. So once you get intothose big 5YA
Eleisha (16:11):
Mm
Alistair (16:12):
projects, then by necessity you're across that to
a degree because therelationship changes. You're
then working with an externalproject manager generally
speaking, and there does need tobe a little bit more executive
oversight there for want of abetter term.
Eleisha (16:26):
hmm.
Alistair (16:26):
But when you're just dealing with that day to day
maintenance stuff, be informed,but really do trust those people
who are on the ground anddelivering something pretty cool
and they're really proud by andlarge of what they do do.
Eleisha (16:40):
That's awesome. De, I wanted to ask you about building
warrants of fitness. What arethey and how often do they have
to be done.
Yeah sure. So your buildingwarrant of fitness or commonly
known as your B-WOF. So it is alegal requirement that
ultimately produces acertificate to confirm the
building's systems are safe andwell-maintained and can be
(17:03):
occupied. Those inspections arecarried out annually, and once
you've passed all requirements,you do display your certificate
somewhere publicly in the school,like your admin area. Very, very
important to ensure that theoccupants of those buildings are
kept safe while they use the,use the buildings.
And so what is it certifying, is it certifying the
(17:25):
safety of the electrical systems,the? Like what? What?
Yeah, exactly that, so lots ofmany different things. So it
generally comes down to acompliance schedule that is
specific to an individual school,
Right.
but they will be systems likeautomatic sprinklers or
emergency lighting, lifts, ormechanical ventilation, things
that are referred to asspecialist systems that do need
(17:48):
to be checked frequently.
Okay, so what about the structure of a building, you
know, like a car warrant offitness also applies to the body
of the car, is a buildingwarrant of fitness applied to
the
Yeah.
body of the building.
There are elements that that doneed to be checked like that.
And what we do see frominspections for building warrant
of fitnesses, is you will, ifthere is an issue with your
(18:09):
building or something that ismaking it unsafe to occupy is
where a school will be issued awork requirement notice and
sometimes they are as simple asa fire exit has been blocked by
school bags or a rubbish bin,something specific to that day,
which is unfortunate on the daythe inspection happened. But we
have to ensure that every partof that building that can be
(18:29):
accessed and exited quickly isas safe and compliant on the day
of inspection and every otherday going forward.
Yeah. So it's a legal requirement. So what are the
risks of not having buildingwarrants of fitness?
So no warrant of fitness, itcould ultimately result in
council fines and that's at thediscretion of individual
(18:51):
councils, or school closureuntil the buildings are deemed
to be safe. We have found morefrequently councils are more
happy to issue fines wherebefore we could have a bit of
leeway around explaining thatitems are underway for repair.
But it ultimately comes down toa council that would say you are
(19:12):
deemed unsafe and you are notcomplying. So unfortunately here
is your fine until you do comply.
Okay, and who does those inspections?
So the Ministry use Argest,Argest are the firm that
complete our compliance checksand the B-WOF inspections for
all state schools, and that isthrough either visiting your
(19:32):
school every month or few weeks,they carry out compliance checks.
They will help schools toarrange any repairs that are
identified and they willcomplete your B-WOF inspection
at least six weeks before itsdue date.
Oh, fantastic. Back to you, Nick and Alistair. There's
a lot of maintenance that has tobe done outside of the buildings
(19:55):
themselves. You know, the schoolgrounds, there's playgrounds,
there's swimming pools, biketracks, you know, all sort of
car parks, all sorts of things.When you first started as a
tumuaki in a school, how did youget your head around all of the
maintenance that was requiredfor those kind of, you know,
peripheral things around theschool buildings Nick?
Nick (20:15):
It's really just leaning on your people. Like there's a
lot of good colleagues, you know,as experienced principals love
to help newcomers out and it'snot difficult, but it's just
yeah, as we talked about earlier,you know, you're not expected to
be an expert, but do reach outbecause there are people who are
and people who have done theyards and they're only too
willing to point you in theright direction. So and as well
(20:38):
as that, you'll have a projectmanager. We've got a guy, Tim,
who's amazing. Certainly I don'tthink the tradespeople like him
because he's rather pedantic,but you know, he's ensuring that
we get good bang for buck, andwe've got a very knowledgeable
property person on our boardwho's also a really good person
to lean on as well. And as Imentioned before, local
(21:01):
principals are there to help.You know, we've all been we've
all been there before. We've allbeen the newcomer. And it's
really important to to reach outwhen you need to. So there are a
lot of people out there who aremore than willing to put their
hand up.
Eleisha (21:13):
Alistair, what would you add to that?
Alistair (21:15):
Yeah totally agree. Build networks, have those phone
numbers in your phone and don'tbe scared to call them. Like
Nick said experienced principalsare only too happy to help
colleagues who are starting outbecause we were all those people
once. And don't be scared to useyour networks. And the other
thing I'd say just from amaintenance point of view is
(21:36):
walk the school with yourproperty people and just get an
overview of of what it takes dayto day to keep the to keep the
ship looking good because thathas an impact on budgeting and
the hours you can allocate intothat particular space. Some
properties have many differentaccess points and that has a
bearing on what needs to belooked after and managed. So
(21:59):
just getting out and walking theschool and leaning on the people
who have got the existingknowledge, because when you come
into a place new, there is a lotof institutional knowledge in
there that is just waiting foryou to unlock it. But it's it's
just about being able to makethe time when you're starting
out to to unlock all that stuffthat's in there and then I guess
sift the good stuff from perhapssome of the stuff that is a
(22:21):
little bit grounded inself-interest and in other
things because because thathappens as well. Everyone,
everyone wants to get their,their time with the new person
don't they, and you know makesure that they're positioned
well under this new regime canbe a little bit scary for
everyone. So lean on that, leanon the knowledge. And you know,
from a property point of view,learn what it takes to make the
(22:42):
place tick, but also make sureyou're sifting and sorting as
you get overwhelmed with allthat new stuff.
Eleisha (22:47):
Some great advice there. Would you have any other advice
for new tumuaki when it comes toproperty maintenance, maybe De,
start with you.
Yeah, sure. I jotted downprobably half a dozen just key
points I would stress to anyonenew. Check what maintenance
plans or schedules that arealready in place at a school so
(23:09):
you can see what has alreadybeen happening and what you need
to check up on. Engage with yourproperty advisor on anything
you're unsure of. In the firstsix months of a new
principalship, your propertyadvisor is on hand to come out
to present to you a property 101.It sounds riveting I know, but
it's it's there as a tool. So weknow you probably don't want to
(23:31):
see property in the first sixmonths there's so much you have
to get your head around but it'sthere and it's a useful
presentation to keep on file. Iwould absolutely say use the
maintenance plan templates soyou can keep a running record
and a frequency record of yourmaintenance. Talk to your
neighbouring schools andleadership. They will give you
everything you need to know. Onething that I would stress and it
(23:56):
was raised earlier, when itcomes to your cyclical
maintenance, I would highlyrecommend that funding is kept
in a separate bank accountbecause not only, as you say, it
needs to be accounted for inyour in your books, but when it
comes time to need to do thosesignificant areas of painting,
we often find that sometimesthat money has been muddled into
general operations and it's justnot on hand. So if there's one
(24:19):
portion of your operational PMGfunding I would say, put that
funding in a separate account.And the last thing I would say
is that your maintenanceknowledge from your property
people on the ground is a reallyvaluable tool for your capital
planning. They know if areas ofthe school flood or drains don't
(24:40):
work. They know which areas ofthe school are more worn or
where there might be maintenanceissues that could lead into
capital. So when we do ourproperty planning with you, we
will want to speak to and engagewith your property people
because they will be the firstport of call to understand
what's going on at your school.
Definitely. Nick What would your advice be?
Nick (25:00):
Yeah, just a lot of the same really. But obviously when
it comes to your 5YA, I thinkone thing that's been helpful
for new tumuaki is around theconditional assessment because
you heard stories about schoolswho had leaky gutterings and
minor things that should havebeen dealt with. I mean our
recent 5YA was a bit depressingreally. I mean, $480,000 dollars
(25:22):
of it was spent on reroofing. Soyou didn't see a lot of it. But,
you know, it just means thatlong term we're not going to
have issues with the maintenance,with leaky roofs, and that's
going to be someone else'sproblem after I've gone and
built the flash thing at thefront of the school and left
everything else to fall apart sothat, you know, even though a
project manager is roughly about8% of every project that's being
(25:46):
done, it's money well spent. Andit's also ensuring that the
Ministry or the Ministry isensuring their properly is being
well looked after. So yeah, andcertainly the Ministry staff, my
local guy is a wonderful humanbeing and I'm sure you all have
those people around the country,so lean on them, work with them.
We're all here for the samepurpose and that's to provide
(26:06):
quality education to ourstudents.
Eleisha (26:09):
Alistair.
Alistair (26:10):
Yeah probably just building on what Nick said a
little bit. It's also, I thinkit's about building a really
good relationship with yourboard when it comes to property.
I know I can speak for the boardhere in Whangamata, probably
more than any other element ofthe general business of the
school, the board are highlyengaged with property,
particularly when it comes to5YA. And like Nick said, not
(26:32):
every 5YA project you can do canbe what I call a ribbon cutter,
i.e. you're going to get thisfancy new classroom where the
mayor will come along and cutthe ribbon and put the plaque up.
Sometimes you just need to dothat core infrastructure work
and commit a significant portionof your funding to that. And
once again, like Nick said, itis about playing a long game and
(26:53):
helping your board to understandthe responsibility that we have
to the overall propertyportfolio that the Education
Ministry holds on our behalf,because people can get quite
emotive too when it comes
Eleisha (27:03):
Hmm.
Alistair (27:04):
to property. You'll have very, very strong and often
competing and contradictoryvoices in your ear. So once
again, property advisers andpeople like that that can come
in without emotion or withoutnecessarily local context and
help you out in some of thoseconversations, which can get a
little bit challenging at times,I think is is a really
(27:24):
intelligent use of that advisorresource as well.
Eleisha (27:27):
Absolutely. Is there anything you wanted to add that
we haven't covered aboutproperty maintenance?
I think I would just hit homeagain that we're here to help.
We want to make sure thatproperty is functioning well for
all schools, but that it's notburdening schools or leadership.
So you will have your in-housestaff that are tasked with
(27:48):
maintenance or capital upgradesat a school. But if you're
unsure of anything, don't spendhours scrolling through our
website trying to find theanswer. Just pick up the phone,
call your property advisor,flick them an email, ask them to
come and see you, we'll takethat burden from you and help
you through all that is property.
Nick (28:05):
Yeah, I think that's a really key message. I mean, our
key focus is teaching andlearning and yeah property can
be one of those things that canbe all encompassing. So yeah,
there are key people out therewho know far more than we do, so
use them.
Eleisha (28:18):
Definitely. You were all awesome. Thank you so much.
Alistair (28:21):
Hey take care team.
Right
That.
Eleisha (28:24):
See you. In the next episode we're going to be
talking about managing schoolproperty projects. See you then.
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