Kia hakatōmuri te haere whakamua: ‘I walk backwards into the future with my eyes fixed on my past’
In this episode of The Principals Podcast, Mārama Stewart, tumuaki and former Leadership Advisor, sits down with someone incredibly special to her — her aunty, Ani Mohi (or Mrs Mohi to many), a proud Māori principal whose story continues to shape and inspire Mārama’s own journey. This kōrero spans generations as they reflect on Mrs Mohi’s journey through the education system — as a student in the 1950s and 60s, a teacher in the 1980s, and a principal in the 1990s and on.
In this episode, we talk about what it was like for her growing up in an era where te ao Māori had little or no place in the classroom.
This episode is a personal tribute to those who walked before us, and a reminder that our stories — our whakapapa — are not just history, they are maps. They are a guide to help us reflect on your own leadership journey — where you’ve come from, who you carry with you, and what kind of future you want to help shape.
You can find more information about this topic in Looking after learning (part 4) of Te Ara Tīmatanga mō ngā Tumuaki - the Beginning Pathway for Principals e-learning modules.
In this episode, we speak with:
- Ani Mohi, Former Tumuaki of Te Kura Mana Māori o Maraenui
This podcast was produced for the Ministry of Education as part of Te Ara Tīmatanga mō ngā Tumuaki - The Beginning Pathway for Principals.
You can learn more by accessing Te Ara Tīmatanga mō ngā Tumuaki - The Beginning Pathway for Principals e-learning modules on the Education LMS: https://training.education.govt.nz
Show notes
Episode themes:
- Mrs Mohi’s experience of life at native school
- Differences between native school and other English-medium schools
- Resistance to racism
- Slow emergence of some te reo and Māori culture in some schools
- Teachers’ College in the 1970s.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Eleisha (00:07):
Kia ora and welcome to The Principals, a podcast series
for new tumuaki in Aotearoa NewZealand. I'm Eleisha McNeill.
Mārama (00:14):
I’m Mārama Stewart, and today we're completely
changing gears. In the next fewepisodes we're going to be
talking to tumuaki Māori abouttheir experiences and starting
with my own auntie, Ani Mohi.
Eleisha (00:27):
Mrs Mohi is the most amazing woman, and she's had an
incredible journey through theeducation system over 50 years
on the East Coast of the NorthIsland.
Mārama (00:36):
This is the first of two episodes with my Aunty Ani.
She didn't really want to talkabout herself and couldn't
really understand why I askedher to. But I'm really glad that
she did because I've learned alot about her and her time as a
child through to as a teenagerand as a young teacher. In this
episode, she tells us about herchildhood in a small town of
(00:58):
Ruatoki and her schooling,including her time at Tawera
Native School and Waiohau School.But first, I'll ask you to
introduce yourself to you all.
Ani (01:08):
Ah. Mōrena koutou. Ah. Mōrena Mā. Mōrena hoki koe te
te wahine kei te hopu i ngākorero. Mōrena koutou e
whakaronga mai ana wē te okoutou ka mōhio mai ki au hoi
anō Ko au te Whaea o Mārama,ko tana Pāpā he tungane nōku.
(01:29):
No roto au i a Ngai Tūhoe. Maite mai Ruatoki tōku Whaea mai
Te Waimana Kaaku tōku um Matua.Hoi ano koinā nō pea i tēnei
ki wā kia koutou. But anyway,good morning to you all, my name
is Ani Mohi I come from NgaiTūhoe. Mārama is my niece. Her
(01:51):
father was my one of my brotherssadly passed away, very sad
about that. Kui na nōpea nām oteine wa But yeah I've been in
the teaching game for 50 oddyears. Kia ora tātou
Kia ora Aunty, thank you for that. Um so a huge reason
(02:13):
why I really wanted to interviewyou is because you've been
pretty influential in my life Imean, you're still my Aunty that
can make a hundred cream puffsin half an hour with a wooden
spoon, but
Also you're you're that Auntythat had this beautiful school
in Maraenui and you're aprincipal and it's really
(02:37):
amazing because it was reallywhat inspired my journey. And
also the the conversations Iused to have with Dad about what
it was like for him when he wasat school, I found that really
interesting too that you endedup in that kind of career after
how many schools did you attend,cos I thought I went to a lot of
schools, but you went to abouteight
(02:59):
Oh e kao. um māku pea timata nē Mā? About our
schooling, yeah we were, I camefrom a very large whānau. There
are 12 of us. I te to matauwhānau. My older brother,
myself and Mārama's father,were the oldest in the whānau.
(03:19):
We lived in Ruatoki when we werevery, very young, as young
children. We all lived together,aunties and uncles, with our
grandparents on a farm inRuatoki at Ohaua road. And my
elder brother and I began ourschooling at Tāwera, well they
used to call the native schoolsin those days aye, and I believe
(03:42):
Eleisha you were quite horrifiedby that.
Eleisha (03:46):
Yeah the name.
Ani (03:47):
We called native schools, but yes, those were those kind
of schools in those days, but wedidn't realise we were supposed
to be natives. To me, he tangataahau, I’m a person, he Māori
ahau ne? And we walked to school,four Ks, to the Tāwera school,
(04:07):
but later on we got a bus, Cavesbuses, it took us to school. But
for me, that time at school,karekau he reo Māori taua i
kōrero hea.
No conversation in Māori atkura, but at home, yeah, Māori
te reo. That was our aunties anduncles, koro, koraua, all spoke,
(04:32):
koena te reo, that was te reothat was different
But as children at school yeah,you were there, happy to be at
school. I can remember as alittle five-year-old, it was the
walk to school, that sort ofused to be a bit daunting. Ah
kare he hu, no shoes, aye, stonyroads in those days, Uncle Boy
(04:59):
Wiri would come along with thistractor, and you would hop on
the back of the tray and get aride so far, to the turn-off, to
Narina Road from there. So thoseare the things I remember of
Tāwera, and after time we movedto Waiuhau, very cold place
(05:20):
It
Very, very cold, black frost, and we lived in Waiohau,
no power, no running water,little house, a lot of children,
but we survived, very resilient,we survived, and we also went to
school, and we got educated, andI have to say this, I know all
(05:43):
this kōrero about you know karohoki mātau. Yeah karo mātau,
but we loved being together,because we were all Māori at
that school, except for theprincipal's children who were
pākeha. Same in Ruatoki too, Imust say, Aunty Joy, Aunty who
married our uncle, she was apākehā whānau. There were
pākehā whanau in Ruatoki, butsome of them also learned our
(06:06):
Reo Mohio ki te korero and ifyou were to put up a curtain you
wouldn't even know they werepākeha because of that, but
they went to school with us. Sowe were all just children, being
at school, enjoying school,being, enjoying being together,
enjoying fighting with oneanother,
enjoying socialising, knowingeach other.
(06:29):
Yeah, getting caught up about tereo and things like that, and
those days you weren't there,because I suppose we were good
little children that conformedto what was going on at kura, we
went to kura, and you know wewere told by our parents ko ngā
māhita me whakarongo. Thechildren were different in those
(06:51):
days, this you shut, those youopened, but all of us were a bit
tutu, like Mārama's father, wasa bit tutu, you know, Matu, but
you know all of us were enjoyedour kura, we enjoyed being
together, we enjoyed going toschool, we enjoyed swimming in
the rivers, walking home,running in the frost, going,
(07:13):
every time the cow had a tekowell you'd run in the teko and
warm your feet up, those kindsof things, we walked to school
there too, a very long wayacross paddocks to get to school
and in the freezing cold
I remember Dad telling me about standing in the
Yeah we'd stand in the cow poop, you know, in the teko, to
(07:36):
warm our feet up, because we hadno hus eh no shoes, but you know,
we here, it was a good life, Yes,but we had at Waiohau um our
headmaster was a pākeha, but ared-headed pākeha we used to
call him Mr. Kāroti, Mr.Kennedy was his name, but we
(07:56):
called him Mr. Kāroti, nā temea he wherowhero nō nā makawe.
Hoi ano ko ngā māhita e tanamāhita he Māori. Ko te tau oku
māhita ko Casey Tamai.
So
you had a pākeha principal and Māori teachers
Oh, yeah, we had, yeah, Ateārangi Ripaki.
(08:19):
But yeah, and same at Tāwera,too, you know, we had Māori
teachers there. Ani Tuatua Black,Taiarahia and them’s mother,
Rapaira but she taught it atTāwera, when I was there. So
you know, i reira o matau whaeaat school. But like I say, for
me, Eleisha, we we weren'tallowed to speak our reo. But we
(08:44):
were happy and we just conformedI suppose, because every morning
you got to school, you did yourmath, the flag went up and you
marched around the court to theBritish song or whatever it was
as the flag went up. You
marched? You marched everymorning. Can you believe that?
(09:04):
Could you make all the childrentoday march around the court,
'dotododo', around the court,raise the flag. I should give it
a go. As the flag is going up,you know, and then you've
saluted the flag and then youknow and everybody lined up. But
as children I suppose we justfell into line like, you know,
(09:25):
that was part of, part of theway school was. And as our
parents said, you go to schoolto learn, you don't go there to
play. You know, so you've gotthe little pohitis too. And from
home, yeah. And don't get intotrouble
(09:45):
I don't know if dad was very good at that, was he?
You go there to listen. You didn't listen. Here you learn to
keep your mouth shut.
Yeah,
very different kind of
Yeah.
life
It was very different. But it was very enjoyable. I think
we, And another thing they didat school was every morning all
(10:05):
of us Māori children had toline up. You had to show you had
a handkerchief and they wouldinspect your nails and they'd
have a look at your hupe andthey'd give you a cod liver oil
pill and a malt. You'd have aspoon of malt every morning. Yea,
it was part of it. Well, weliked the malt too, cause it was
(10:26):
something sweet I suppose. Butwe didn't like the little
fisheye things they used to giveus.
Ae, so that was school, Eleisha,at a native school. And you know,
as we went to, we used the river,clean rivers. We swam in the
rivers and, you know, we wenteeling in the rivers and, you
(10:50):
know, in school was we went tolearn, you know, we played
sports, netball and all thosekind of things well, got into
teams to go away and come backand, yeah, and, yeah, I suppose
uniforms, you only had oneuniform, yo had a gym and you
put that underneath the mattressto keep the pleats, you know,
nice and straight, you slept it,put it underneath your mattress
(11:13):
and so it flattened it out andso the morning you pulled it out
and shook it out.
You know, and the rompers andthings and that, you probably I
don't know whether you know theword rompers, but you know, they
were like parachutes, you knowthey ballooned out like that,
those are
Are they pants?
Yeah, we wore them for sports, those were our sports
(11:34):
things, then you had those, wellbecause all the flour for
cooking used to come in flourbags, mum used to save the flour
bags and make underpants withthem, you know, so every time
you slapped your backside allthe flour, you know dust would
come from your..
(11:55):
So that's where that Māori songcame from, you know paura paura
peek and a paura kei taura poehuana, there's dust on your bum
because you see the pants, wellthe dust from the flour bag
would come from your tārau,those were undies, yeah. Yeah,
so those were the times at pri,at primary school, and then from
(12:21):
there we moved to, our fathergot a job at, on the Marzden
Point, the Ruakākā MarzdenPoint oil refinery there, they
built the power station here, wemoved up north for a little
while, the little hauhaus from,from the country, from Ngai
(12:42):
Tūhoe, moving up Ngā Puhi,yeah
Was that a culture shock
there? It was definitely to go in and more pākehas in the
kura, we were used to the verybrown skins inside the kura and
very few pākeha inside our kura,but that was the first time to
(13:05):
be with more, you know,Europeans, pākehas inside,
going to school with, yeah, to aprimary school like that. We
found that very, very different.Coming as very hauhau, Māori,
you know, tino tino Māori,hauhau, nae, into a pākeha, it
was sort of, it was a majorpākeha
school. Yes, so there was quitean experience. So, we had many,
(13:30):
your father probably would havetold you, we had him and I used
to um, was they always used tocall us, you know, names, not
nice names, yeah. And so, weused to go down the lane and one
day we decided we'd give them ahiding, so we did
That was Dad, wasn't
it? Yes, so we hid behind the bush, but I was quite a good
(13:52):
fighter, you know how I couldn't,you know, I had brothers too,
you know, I knew you how to
fight. So, yeah, we came acrossthat kind of thing and there was
something different about goingfrom, you know, in those we were
called natives in Ruatoki andsame in Waiohau, at least you
were able to be your own kind Isuppose, Eleisha. And we were
(14:15):
all Māori and we all of knew,our tikana and how we sort of
lived together and, you know, anif we went down the river to
swim well, you know, we wereused to swimming with no kakas
on them, but as you got older,you know, the girls wore their
dust bag plow, plow underwear.
Eleisha (14:36):
Hey, was there any difference in the classes when
you moved to the pākeha school,or was it the
Ani (14:42):
Now,
Eleisha (14:42):
same?
Ani (14:42):
I would say there was something different because we
did a lot of, like, menialduties
at Waiohau School, like, thekids did all the cleanup at the
end of the day, but we did allthe, we were put into groups, a
we did, cleaned up the school,you know, did the toilet, we had
(15:03):
to do the dusting, we had topoli.. Did your father tell you
we had to polish the floors,because they were one floors,
they, and they were polished andwe used to wear socks and slide,
we loved doing that job, becauseyou put socks on and, you could
slide across the floor to makesure the floor was shiny, but we
did, whereas when we went to, upnorth, we didn't do those kind
(15:26):
of things. We also got taughthow to sew, and you
know, knit and crochet, but wedid all those pākeha things, we
didn't do all the Māori thingslike you can do now, yeah, we
were taught all the pākehacrafts, like, yeah, and so, yeah
I'm a person who can do allthose things, I can sew and I
(15:46):
can knit and I can, but I canalso weave
Mārama (15:49):
Yeah, yeah
Ani (15:50):
And do all those other things, yeah, as well. But yeah,
it was from kura.
Mārama (15:58):
So at Ruakākā, the curriculum would have been a bit
different in
Ani (16:02):
class. It was, it very, very, yeah, yeah, it was very
different and the teachers weredifferent too,
Mārama (16:08):
They treated you differently?
Yeah, they were different, yeah, they were
different from what we were usedto, it was a huge change. Like
it's a cultural kind of changefor us as children, we were used
to going to going barefoot and,didn't really matter how you
went to school. And if you onlyhad a little paraoa your bag
(16:29):
well that was it eh, you know,everybody was in the same sort
of boat, except the Headmaster'schildren I suppose, but with us
yeah.
Ani (16:37):
Your father used to hop in the drain at Ruakākā school
and go
eeling, and hop on the bus withhis eels and get told to get off
was the Māori child from the,you know, from the hauhau home
well, you didn't do those kindof things. So that was a
(16:59):
learning curve for us going to,being in that kind of
environment.
Especially where we came from,yeah, we came from here,
Mārama (17:11):
So you've kind of lost, when you moved from Waiohau and
all these native schools, whereyou felt normal and then you
moved to, yeah, you lost yourspace
Ani (17:21):
Yes sorry, Mārama, yeah, you sort of started to realise
that, oh, maybe I am
different. But by then we were abit older to then, you know, and
you were starting to think, whydo they, why are they like that?
You know, you'd have thatquestion in your mind and you
(17:43):
start to not want to take allthe cheek and the demeaning
things that were being said toyou, you thought, oh, no, not
putting up with that. You know,you start to get that little bit
of
a fight in you I suppose eh, tostand up for yourself, eh,
(18:04):
whereas we were always taught tobe, you know, very compliant and
because we were happy in thatenvironment you were compliant,
I suppose. Yeah, yeah. It makessense? Yeah,
Mārama (18:14):
it does, it really does. Yeah.
Ani (18:16):
Yeah, you know, you're in a happy environment, everything,
you know, although you haven'tgot much, you still had a very
happy
life, yeah, yeah, yeah, but thenyou went into that kind of
environment and you were a bitolder and people, some of the
way you were treated, you knewit was different and not nice
(18:38):
and some of the things that weresaid to you weren't nice. You
start
not to be wanting to becompliant.
Mārama (18:46):
Yeah.
Ani (18:47):
If that makes sense because you start to think, oh, well,
I've got to, you know, stand.I'm a person too. So that's
something that you started tolearn there in that school there
in a different kind ofenvironment.
Eleisha (19:06):
Can I just ask, was there any difference between
what the pākeha kids weretaught, and what the Māori kids
were taught, or was it all thesame classes for everybody?
Ani (19:16):
It was all the same classes.
Eleisha (19:18):
Yeah.
Ani (19:18):
We were all taught the same thing. You
Eleisha (19:20):
Yeah.
Ani (19:21):
know, and all the English, you know, and that's where we
couldn't, Eleisha, we couldn'tunderstand English, because you
know, you'd have the there andthe their and the whatnot. You
used to get all confused about,you know, because yeah, but
during school school was verydifferent, though, then eh the
way they taught language, thenyou know, there was a lot of
grammar and a lot of spellingconcentration on that. There was
(19:43):
nothing about, the creative sideof language and writing, there
was sort of very little, veryformal in English it was, you
know.
Eleisha (19:53):
Yeah. Yeah.
Ani (19:54):
So maths was very, you know, maths was the sing song, two
times two is two, you know, yousang it
Eleisha (20:00):
Yeah.
Ani (20:00):
and
Eleisha (20:00):
(GIGGLES)
Ani (20:00):
you knew the tune, but you didn't know the actual maths
itself, you know, that kind of,yeah, it was like that, very
restricted and very formal, yeahso, as I'm talking, and you're
asking me about seeingdifferences between being at,
like, what we call our nativeschools and moving into
(20:22):
mainstream from that kind ofsituation, yeah, well, no that I
reflect on it, yeah, you startto think, yeah there were those
kind of real big culturaldifferences, you know, we were
used to living in a very free,happy environment, you know, and
our reo was everywhere, so you,know, you were used to that, and
(20:43):
then you went into that, so youwere very different
there, but you had to
adapt, you had to survive
right 322 00:00:00,-01 --> 00:00:00,-01 ?
Mārama (20:57):
Yeah, no, I'm just thinking, like, you guys were
actually really lucky to havethose formative early years in
the native schools with yourwhānau where you were really
cared for, which I believeprobably built your self-esteem
and your ability maybe to fightback a bit when you went to,
Ani (21:15):
yes,
Mārama (21:16):
Yes, I'm still shocked, yes, yes,
Eleisha (21:20):
Yeah.
Mārama (21:22):
Yeah, I actually become quite a, you know, quite an
outspoken kind of a student hereat Whakatāne High School, it
started. Yeah. I objected to mymy surname not being pronounced
properly, I stood up a couple oftimes at high school, I think it
(21:44):
was
Ani (21:46):
I'm not all that innocent. I'm
Eleisha (21:49):
(GIGGLES)
Ani (21:51):
starting to reflect now that from that all of that,
that's probably why that lateron that I did sort of tend not
to sit back and stand and say,you know, oh no, that's not, you
know, and I remember being athird former at high school and
we were all put intoprofessional, I was put into a
(22:12):
professional class, very fewMaōris were in professional
classes. In my class I thinkthere were four of us that were
Maōri out of the whole
Eleisha (22:21):
What's a professional class?
Ani (22:22):
They were students that we were students that were put into
there that might go off to likeplaces like training college at
that time,
Eleisha (22:33):
Hmm.
Ani (22:33):
to university, you know, to do those kind of, to aspire to
be lawyers or whatever, etc, etc,you know, you did those kind of
subjects and you did Latin andFrench. I did French! But when I
got to high school and I justdidn't like the way they used to
pronounce my surname, you know,and Martin, I probably knows
(22:55):
that too, but I just end up andI got sent to the headmaster's
office a couple of times, forbeing like that. One day I got
kicked out of class you know fortelling the teacher that no, you
know my name is this, it's notthat, so I got told to go out
for being insolent, but I'd beensent outside for that, for
(23:19):
asking the teacher to say myname properly, that my name was
not Annie, and it's not Teapow.
Mārama (23:28):
You know, I had to do the same thing when I was at
high school, and I got kicked
out.
Ani (23:33):
Oh glad you got kicked out too
Mārama (23:36):
Maramma Teapow.
Yeah, I just, you know.
Anyway that was like myschooling
and it was through being in aprofessional class you know,
because we were geared towardsit, when the Hamilton Teachers'
College people came around
(23:57):
recruiting, and I had sort ofdecided I did want to go
teaching because we'd come froma big family, I'd helped my mum
look after all my brothers andsisters, I knew how to, I
learned how to cook, I learnedhow to you know, do lots of
things, looking after children,you thought oh well yeah that'd
be good to go into that and toalso to carry on with learning,
(24:23):
to learn, and that.
So yeah, when they came Idecided I was going to come here
to Hamilton Teachers' and I'mglad too because you know, there
were a few more Māoris, mycousin was here, so it wasn't
like you were coming and youdidn't know
people. And of course Māorisbeing Māoris quickly, you know,
(24:47):
grouped together, littlegroupies, you know, all came
together, looked at all theseyou know other people, but you
know as we grew and that welearned to mingle and be more
part of the Training College,part of the um part of everyone,
and uh we joined Māori Club andSam Karetu was here at that time,
(25:09):
Timoti Karetu was one of thelecturers here, and there were a
few more Māori faces, I supposein
education. Uh John Ford, I'm notsure whether you guys know John
Ford, was a Māori artist, I didMāori art under him, Māori
bringing in Māori things, andusing the reo started to come
(25:29):
inside our teaching practicehere at Hamilton, in little
pockets, yeah, in little pocketsand especially in language art,
that's what the a lot of theteaching used to be here at the
College, integrating
language
art into
Eleisha (25:49):
Hmm.
Ani (25:50):
um into the curriculum, we went out into the schools.
Mārama (25:54):
And you said you you were a little bit vocal and
maybe a bit
Oh yeah because you see I got kicked out of here too I
was I was, a lecturer, thelecturer threatened to um to
expel me from the college umyeah because he he was he wasn't
a very nice lecturer, he used toalways uh say not very nice
(26:14):
things about us as being Māoristudents and that we were
paruparu, you know, Māoris were,that we were just cabbages, yeah,
so that was it for me, excuse
me, yeah, um uh and yet I had my,you know, some of us other
(26:34):
Māori students there theywouldn't say anything but I got
up to tell him that no, and whathe was saying about us was not
good and not right. So heactually kicked all the students
out of class and made me stayand told me that he was going to
get me expelled, but you knowfortunately at that time we had
(26:55):
a lot of good Māori lecturersup here, Hamilton Teachers'
College and the changes werecoming. So good
Eleisha (27:03):
Yeah.
Mārama (27:04):
Uh you know and I went straight to see John Ford and my
lecturers and they they, he gotdisciplined for
Eleisha (27:11):
Good.
Mārama (27:12):
doing that um for making a student feel that you
were going to be booted out. Butanyway I did um my training here,
I enjoyed my training I wasfortunate enough to have um very
good associate teachers. The waywe were trained were, is
different from the way thetraining happens now Mārama.
(27:34):
Yeah the teachers college is very different to the
universities nowadays
And the other thing was that we had teachers who had
been teaching, uh long teachingexperience, had been teaching a
long time, had been in positionsof responsibility you know um,
and we were lucky that thenormal schools were here we used
(27:56):
to go into those and yeah had alot of time practicing before we
actually went out.
yeah so valuable yeah I had a lot of time in normal
schools as well
Ani (28:08):
yeah and we learned how, we learned about curriculum, what
curriculum was about and
Mārama (28:13):
You, you're most, you you and Dad, you've always most
um comfortable speaking in tereo, was that was that allowed
like as a student teacher wereyou allowed to switch back and
forth or did you have to speakEnglish
Oh no oh you see that that tino kōrero hea Te Reo
(28:35):
taua wā, what used to happenused um they started bringing in
like um pakiwaitaras you knowthe myths and legend thing, and
and Māori art and things likethat but it was never um done in
Māori I roto I te Reo and thete reo Māori was very
(28:58):
simplified you know kia ora,tēnā koe, kei te pehea koe you
know that, not full-blownconversation like I can deliver
in Māori. Yeah those were sortof like the very little
beginnings of using Māorisimplified. You had te reo
Māori classes but very simplelittle Māori classes yeah
(29:24):
And so when you first went into school did you have
any freedom to add more te reoto make you feel comfortable or
Ani (29:33):
Oh uh you worked within a very tight framework right, yeah
very simplified
framework, it wasn't. Māoriclub was the main thing having a
Mārama (29:45):
So was Māori club part of the curriculum or was that
was like an extra on top of
Ani (29:49):
Extra and it was funny how Māori teachers had to take it
all the time eh.
If you were a Māori teacher andyou went into a mainstream
school well you were given allthe Māori, all the naughty
Māori kids and all the, youwere giving all the Māori kids
that were naughty that couldn'tbe controlled, and you were
given the Māori club. It's whatyou did. I was there um yeah.
(30:16):
Anyway my train, I enjoyedtraining college, um I really
did. I um, I did a lot of Māoriart as well in at training
college um because we were luckyto have John Ford. I worked with
Katarina Mataira, I went inKatarina Mataira's group to
schools, to high schools umdoing Māori art
(30:38):
and we were involved we had alittle group that was involved
in restoring kowhaiwhai and
you know on the wharenuis aroundhere, I do like those kind of
things you know, Māori thingsas well. And and with the reo,
the reo doing creative dance andplays and i roto i te reo and
(31:00):
things like that yeah. So Icarry all those, I carried all
those things with me when I wentinto to Maraenui and to Ruatoki
and yeah but when I went toRuatoki to teach it just
blossomed.
Mārama (31:14):
Thank you so much, Aunty In the next episode, she's
gonna tell us about her time asa young kaiako, a tumuaki, and a
trailblazer. Mā te wā.
Kia ora and welcome to The Principals, a podcast series
for new tumuaki in Aotearoa NewZealand. I'm Eleisha McNeill.
Mārama (00:14):
I’m Mārama Stewart, and today we're completely
changing gears. In the next fewepisodes we're going to be
talking to tumuaki Māori abouttheir experiences and starting
with my own auntie, Ani Mohi.
Eleisha (00:27):
Mrs Mohi is the most amazing woman, and she's had an
incredible journey through theeducation system over 50 years
on the East Coast of the NorthIsland.
Mārama (00:36):
This is the first of two episodes with my Aunty Ani.
She didn't really want to talkabout herself and couldn't
really understand why I askedher to. But I'm really glad that
she did because I've learned alot about her and her time as a
child through to as a teenagerand as a young teacher. In this
episode, she tells us about herchildhood in a small town of
(00:58):
Ruatoki and her schooling,including her time at Tawera
Native School and Waiohau School.But first, I'll ask you to
introduce yourself to you all.
Ani (01:08):
Ah. Mōrena koutou. Ah. Mōrena Mā. Mōrena hoki koe te
te wahine kei te hopu i ngākorero. Mōrena koutou e
whakaronga mai ana wē te okoutou ka mōhio mai ki au hoi
anō Ko au te Whaea o Mārama,ko tana Pāpā he tungane nōku.
(01:29):
No roto au i a Ngai Tūhoe. Maite mai Ruatoki tōku Whaea mai
Te Waimana Kaaku tōku um Matua.Hoi ano koinā nō pea i tēnei
ki wā kia koutou. But anyway,good morning to you all, my name
is Ani Mohi I come from NgaiTūhoe. Mārama is my niece. Her
(01:51):
father was my one of my brotherssadly passed away, very sad
about that. Kui na nōpea nām oteine wa But yeah I've been in
the teaching game for 50 oddyears. Kia ora tātou
Kia ora Aunty, thank you for that. Um so a huge reason
(02:13):
why I really wanted to interviewyou is because you've been
pretty influential in my life Imean, you're still my Aunty that
can make a hundred cream puffsin half an hour with a wooden
spoon, but
Also you're you're that Auntythat had this beautiful school
in Maraenui and you're aprincipal and it's really
(02:37):
amazing because it was reallywhat inspired my journey. And
also the the conversations Iused to have with Dad about what
it was like for him when he wasat school, I found that really
interesting too that you endedup in that kind of career after
how many schools did you attend,cos I thought I went to a lot of
schools, but you went to abouteight
(02:59):
Oh e kao. um māku pea timata nē Mā? About our
schooling, yeah we were, I camefrom a very large whānau. There
are 12 of us. I te to matauwhānau. My older brother,
myself and Mārama's father,were the oldest in the whānau.
(03:19):
We lived in Ruatoki when we werevery, very young, as young
children. We all lived together,aunties and uncles, with our
grandparents on a farm inRuatoki at Ohaua road. And my
elder brother and I began ourschooling at Tāwera, well they
used to call the native schoolsin those days aye, and I believe
(03:42):
Eleisha you were quite horrifiedby that.
Eleisha (03:46):
Yeah the name.
Ani (03:47):
We called native schools, but yes, those were those kind
of schools in those days, but wedidn't realise we were supposed
to be natives. To me, he tangataahau, I’m a person, he Māori
ahau ne? And we walked to school,four Ks, to the Tāwera school,
(04:07):
but later on we got a bus, Cavesbuses, it took us to school. But
for me, that time at school,karekau he reo Māori taua i
kōrero hea.
No conversation in Māori atkura, but at home, yeah, Māori
te reo. That was our aunties anduncles, koro, koraua, all spoke,
(04:32):
koena te reo, that was te reothat was different
But as children at school yeah,you were there, happy to be at
school. I can remember as alittle five-year-old, it was the
walk to school, that sort ofused to be a bit daunting. Ah
kare he hu, no shoes, aye, stonyroads in those days, Uncle Boy
(04:59):
Wiri would come along with thistractor, and you would hop on
the back of the tray and get aride so far, to the turn-off, to
Narina Road from there. So thoseare the things I remember of
Tāwera, and after time we movedto Waiuhau, very cold place
(05:20):
It
Very, very cold, black frost, and we lived in Waiohau,
no power, no running water,little house, a lot of children,
but we survived, very resilient,we survived, and we also went to
school, and we got educated, andI have to say this, I know all
(05:43):
this kōrero about you know karohoki mātau. Yeah karo mātau,
but we loved being together,because we were all Māori at
that school, except for theprincipal's children who were
pākeha. Same in Ruatoki too, Imust say, Aunty Joy, Aunty who
married our uncle, she was apākehā whānau. There were
pākehā whanau in Ruatoki, butsome of them also learned our
(06:06):
Reo Mohio ki te korero and ifyou were to put up a curtain you
wouldn't even know they werepākeha because of that, but
they went to school with us. Sowe were all just children, being
at school, enjoying school,being, enjoying being together,
enjoying fighting with oneanother,
enjoying socialising, knowingeach other.
(06:29):
Yeah, getting caught up about tereo and things like that, and
those days you weren't there,because I suppose we were good
little children that conformedto what was going on at kura, we
went to kura, and you know wewere told by our parents ko ngā
māhita me whakarongo. Thechildren were different in those
(06:51):
days, this you shut, those youopened, but all of us were a bit
tutu, like Mārama's father, wasa bit tutu, you know, Matu, but
you know all of us were enjoyedour kura, we enjoyed being
together, we enjoyed going toschool, we enjoyed swimming in
the rivers, walking home,running in the frost, going,
(07:13):
every time the cow had a tekowell you'd run in the teko and
warm your feet up, those kindsof things, we walked to school
there too, a very long wayacross paddocks to get to school
and in the freezing cold
I remember Dad telling me about standing in the
Yeah we'd stand in the cow poop, you know, in the teko, to
(07:36):
warm our feet up, because we hadno hus eh no shoes, but you know,
we here, it was a good life, Yes,but we had at Waiohau um our
headmaster was a pākeha, but ared-headed pākeha we used to
call him Mr. Kāroti, Mr.Kennedy was his name, but we
(07:56):
called him Mr. Kāroti, nā temea he wherowhero nō nā makawe.
Hoi ano ko ngā māhita e tanamāhita he Māori. Ko te tau oku
māhita ko Casey Tamai.
So
you had a pākeha principal and Māori teachers
Oh, yeah, we had, yeah, Ateārangi Ripaki.
(08:19):
But yeah, and same at Tāwera,too, you know, we had Māori
teachers there. Ani Tuatua Black,Taiarahia and them’s mother,
Rapaira but she taught it atTāwera, when I was there. So
you know, i reira o matau whaeaat school. But like I say, for
me, Eleisha, we we weren'tallowed to speak our reo. But we
(08:44):
were happy and we just conformedI suppose, because every morning
you got to school, you did yourmath, the flag went up and you
marched around the court to theBritish song or whatever it was
as the flag went up. You
marched? You marched everymorning. Can you believe that?
(09:04):
Could you make all the childrentoday march around the court,
'dotododo', around the court,raise the flag. I should give it
a go. As the flag is going up,you know, and then you've
saluted the flag and then youknow and everybody lined up. But
as children I suppose we justfell into line like, you know,
(09:25):
that was part of, part of theway school was. And as our
parents said, you go to schoolto learn, you don't go there to
play. You know, so you've gotthe little pohitis too. And from
home, yeah. And don't get intotrouble
(09:45):
I don't know if dad was very good at that, was he?
You go there to listen. You didn't listen. Here you learn to
keep your mouth shut.
Yeah,
very different kind of
Yeah.
life
It was very different. But it was very enjoyable. I think
we, And another thing they didat school was every morning all
(10:05):
of us Māori children had toline up. You had to show you had
a handkerchief and they wouldinspect your nails and they'd
have a look at your hupe andthey'd give you a cod liver oil
pill and a malt. You'd have aspoon of malt every morning. Yea,
it was part of it. Well, weliked the malt too, cause it was
(10:26):
something sweet I suppose. Butwe didn't like the little
fisheye things they used to giveus.
Ae, so that was school, Eleisha,at a native school. And you know,
as we went to, we used the river,clean rivers. We swam in the
rivers and, you know, we wenteeling in the rivers and, you
(10:50):
know, in school was we went tolearn, you know, we played
sports, netball and all thosekind of things well, got into
teams to go away and come backand, yeah, and, yeah, I suppose
uniforms, you only had oneuniform, yo had a gym and you
put that underneath the mattressto keep the pleats, you know,
nice and straight, you slept it,put it underneath your mattress
(11:13):
and so it flattened it out andso the morning you pulled it out
and shook it out.
You know, and the rompers andthings and that, you probably I
don't know whether you know theword rompers, but you know, they
were like parachutes, you knowthey ballooned out like that,
those are
Are they pants?
Yeah, we wore them for sports, those were our sports
(11:34):
things, then you had those, wellbecause all the flour for
cooking used to come in flourbags, mum used to save the flour
bags and make underpants withthem, you know, so every time
you slapped your backside allthe flour, you know dust would
come from your..
(11:55):
So that's where that Māori songcame from, you know paura paura
peek and a paura kei taura poehuana, there's dust on your bum
because you see the pants, wellthe dust from the flour bag
would come from your tārau,those were undies, yeah. Yeah,
so those were the times at pri,at primary school, and then from
(12:21):
there we moved to, our fathergot a job at, on the Marzden
Point, the Ruakākā MarzdenPoint oil refinery there, they
built the power station here, wemoved up north for a little
while, the little hauhaus from,from the country, from Ngai
(12:42):
Tūhoe, moving up Ngā Puhi,yeah
Was that a culture shock
there? It was definitely to go in and more pākehas in the
kura, we were used to the verybrown skins inside the kura and
very few pākeha inside our kura,but that was the first time to
(13:05):
be with more, you know,Europeans, pākehas inside,
going to school with, yeah, to aprimary school like that. We
found that very, very different.Coming as very hauhau, Māori,
you know, tino tino Māori,hauhau, nae, into a pākeha, it
was sort of, it was a majorpākeha
school. Yes, so there was quitean experience. So, we had many,
(13:30):
your father probably would havetold you, we had him and I used
to um, was they always used tocall us, you know, names, not
nice names, yeah. And so, weused to go down the lane and one
day we decided we'd give them ahiding, so we did
That was Dad, wasn't
it? Yes, so we hid behind the bush, but I was quite a good
(13:52):
fighter, you know how I couldn't,you know, I had brothers too,
you know, I knew you how to
fight. So, yeah, we came acrossthat kind of thing and there was
something different about goingfrom, you know, in those we were
called natives in Ruatoki andsame in Waiohau, at least you
were able to be your own kind Isuppose, Eleisha. And we were
(14:15):
all Māori and we all of knew,our tikana and how we sort of
lived together and, you know, anif we went down the river to
swim well, you know, we wereused to swimming with no kakas
on them, but as you got older,you know, the girls wore their
dust bag plow, plow underwear.
Eleisha (14:36):
Hey, was there any difference in the classes when
you moved to the pākeha school,or was it the
Ani (14:42):
Now,
Eleisha (14:42):
same?
Ani (14:42):
I would say there was something different because we
did a lot of, like, menialduties
at Waiohau School, like, thekids did all the cleanup at the
end of the day, but we did allthe, we were put into groups, a
we did, cleaned up the school,you know, did the toilet, we had
(15:03):
to do the dusting, we had topoli.. Did your father tell you
we had to polish the floors,because they were one floors,
they, and they were polished andwe used to wear socks and slide,
we loved doing that job, becauseyou put socks on and, you could
slide across the floor to makesure the floor was shiny, but we
did, whereas when we went to, upnorth, we didn't do those kind
(15:26):
of things. We also got taughthow to sew, and you
know, knit and crochet, but wedid all those pākeha things, we
didn't do all the Māori thingslike you can do now, yeah, we
were taught all the pākehacrafts, like, yeah, and so, yeah
I'm a person who can do allthose things, I can sew and I
(15:46):
can knit and I can, but I canalso weave
Mārama (15:49):
Yeah, yeah
Ani (15:50):
And do all those other things, yeah, as well. But yeah,
it was from kura.
Mārama (15:58):
So at Ruakākā, the curriculum would have been a bit
different in
Ani (16:02):
class. It was, it very, very, yeah, yeah, it was very
different and the teachers weredifferent too,
Mārama (16:08):
They treated you differently?
Yeah, they were different, yeah, they were
different from what we were usedto, it was a huge change. Like
it's a cultural kind of changefor us as children, we were used
to going to going barefoot and,didn't really matter how you
went to school. And if you onlyhad a little paraoa your bag
(16:29):
well that was it eh, you know,everybody was in the same sort
of boat, except the Headmaster'schildren I suppose, but with us
yeah.
Ani (16:37):
Your father used to hop in the drain at Ruakākā school
and go
eeling, and hop on the bus withhis eels and get told to get off
was the Māori child from the,you know, from the hauhau home
well, you didn't do those kindof things. So that was a
(16:59):
learning curve for us going to,being in that kind of
environment.
Especially where we came from,yeah, we came from here,
Mārama (17:11):
So you've kind of lost, when you moved from Waiohau and
all these native schools, whereyou felt normal and then you
moved to, yeah, you lost yourspace
Ani (17:21):
Yes sorry, Mārama, yeah, you sort of started to realise
that, oh, maybe I am
different. But by then we were abit older to then, you know, and
you were starting to think, whydo they, why are they like that?
You know, you'd have thatquestion in your mind and you
(17:43):
start to not want to take allthe cheek and the demeaning
things that were being said toyou, you thought, oh, no, not
putting up with that. You know,you start to get that little bit
of
a fight in you I suppose eh, tostand up for yourself, eh,
(18:04):
whereas we were always taught tobe, you know, very compliant and
because we were happy in thatenvironment you were compliant,
I suppose. Yeah, yeah. It makessense? Yeah,
Mārama (18:14):
it does, it really does. Yeah.
Ani (18:16):
Yeah, you know, you're in a happy environment, everything,
you know, although you haven'tgot much, you still had a very
happy
life, yeah, yeah, yeah, but thenyou went into that kind of
environment and you were a bitolder and people, some of the
way you were treated, you knewit was different and not nice
(18:38):
and some of the things that weresaid to you weren't nice. You
start
not to be wanting to becompliant.
Mārama (18:46):
Yeah.
Ani (18:47):
If that makes sense because you start to think, oh, well,
I've got to, you know, stand.I'm a person too. So that's
something that you started tolearn there in that school there
in a different kind ofenvironment.
Eleisha (19:06):
Can I just ask, was there any difference between
what the pākeha kids weretaught, and what the Māori kids
were taught, or was it all thesame classes for everybody?
Ani (19:16):
It was all the same classes.
Eleisha (19:18):
Yeah.
Ani (19:18):
We were all taught the same thing. You
Eleisha (19:20):
Yeah.
Ani (19:21):
know, and all the English, you know, and that's where we
couldn't, Eleisha, we couldn'tunderstand English, because you
know, you'd have the there andthe their and the whatnot. You
used to get all confused about,you know, because yeah, but
during school school was verydifferent, though, then eh the
way they taught language, thenyou know, there was a lot of
grammar and a lot of spellingconcentration on that. There was
(19:43):
nothing about, the creative sideof language and writing, there
was sort of very little, veryformal in English it was, you
know.
Eleisha (19:53):
Yeah. Yeah.
Ani (19:54):
So maths was very, you know, maths was the sing song, two
times two is two, you know, yousang it
Eleisha (20:00):
Yeah.
Ani (20:00):
and
Eleisha (20:00):
(GIGGLES)
Ani (20:00):
you knew the tune, but you didn't know the actual maths
itself, you know, that kind of,yeah, it was like that, very
restricted and very formal, yeahso, as I'm talking, and you're
asking me about seeingdifferences between being at,
like, what we call our nativeschools and moving into
(20:22):
mainstream from that kind ofsituation, yeah, well, no that I
reflect on it, yeah, you startto think, yeah there were those
kind of real big culturaldifferences, you know, we were
used to living in a very free,happy environment, you know, and
our reo was everywhere, so you,know, you were used to that, and
(20:43):
then you went into that, so youwere very different
there, but you had to
adapt, you had to survive
right 322 00:00:00,-01 --> 00:00:00,-01 ?
Mārama (20:57):
Yeah, no, I'm just thinking, like, you guys were
actually really lucky to havethose formative early years in
the native schools with yourwhānau where you were really
cared for, which I believeprobably built your self-esteem
and your ability maybe to fightback a bit when you went to,
Ani (21:15):
yes,
Mārama (21:16):
Yes, I'm still shocked, yes, yes,
Eleisha (21:20):
Yeah.
Mārama (21:22):
Yeah, I actually become quite a, you know, quite an
outspoken kind of a student hereat Whakatāne High School, it
started. Yeah. I objected to mymy surname not being pronounced
properly, I stood up a couple oftimes at high school, I think it
(21:44):
was
Ani (21:46):
I'm not all that innocent. I'm
Eleisha (21:49):
(GIGGLES)
Ani (21:51):
starting to reflect now that from that all of that,
that's probably why that lateron that I did sort of tend not
to sit back and stand and say,you know, oh no, that's not, you
know, and I remember being athird former at high school and
we were all put intoprofessional, I was put into a
(22:12):
professional class, very fewMaōris were in professional
classes. In my class I thinkthere were four of us that were
Maōri out of the whole
Eleisha (22:21):
What's a professional class?
Ani (22:22):
They were students that we were students that were put into
there that might go off to likeplaces like training college at
that time,
Eleisha (22:33):
Hmm.
Ani (22:33):
to university, you know, to do those kind of, to aspire to
be lawyers or whatever, etc, etc,you know, you did those kind of
subjects and you did Latin andFrench. I did French! But when I
got to high school and I justdidn't like the way they used to
pronounce my surname, you know,and Martin, I probably knows
(22:55):
that too, but I just end up andI got sent to the headmaster's
office a couple of times, forbeing like that. One day I got
kicked out of class you know fortelling the teacher that no, you
know my name is this, it's notthat, so I got told to go out
for being insolent, but I'd beensent outside for that, for
(23:19):
asking the teacher to say myname properly, that my name was
not Annie, and it's not Teapow.
Mārama (23:28):
You know, I had to do the same thing when I was at
high school, and I got kicked
out.
Ani (23:33):
Oh glad you got kicked out too
Mārama (23:36):
Maramma Teapow.
Yeah, I just, you know.
Anyway that was like myschooling
and it was through being in aprofessional class you know,
because we were geared towardsit, when the Hamilton Teachers'
College people came around
(23:57):
recruiting, and I had sort ofdecided I did want to go
teaching because we'd come froma big family, I'd helped my mum
look after all my brothers andsisters, I knew how to, I
learned how to cook, I learnedhow to you know, do lots of
things, looking after children,you thought oh well yeah that'd
be good to go into that and toalso to carry on with learning,
(24:23):
to learn, and that.
So yeah, when they came Idecided I was going to come here
to Hamilton Teachers' and I'mglad too because you know, there
were a few more Māoris, mycousin was here, so it wasn't
like you were coming and youdidn't know
people. And of course Māorisbeing Māoris quickly, you know,
(24:47):
grouped together, littlegroupies, you know, all came
together, looked at all theseyou know other people, but you
know as we grew and that welearned to mingle and be more
part of the Training College,part of the um part of everyone,
and uh we joined Māori Club andSam Karetu was here at that time,
(25:09):
Timoti Karetu was one of thelecturers here, and there were a
few more Māori faces, I supposein
education. Uh John Ford, I'm notsure whether you guys know John
Ford, was a Māori artist, I didMāori art under him, Māori
bringing in Māori things, andusing the reo started to come
(25:29):
inside our teaching practicehere at Hamilton, in little
pockets, yeah, in little pocketsand especially in language art,
that's what the a lot of theteaching used to be here at the
College, integrating
language
art into
Eleisha (25:49):
Hmm.
Ani (25:50):
um into the curriculum, we went out into the schools.
Mārama (25:54):
And you said you you were a little bit vocal and
maybe a bit
Oh yeah because you see I got kicked out of here too I
was I was, a lecturer, thelecturer threatened to um to
expel me from the college umyeah because he he was he wasn't
a very nice lecturer, he used toalways uh say not very nice
(26:14):
things about us as being Māoristudents and that we were
paruparu, you know, Māoris were,that we were just cabbages, yeah,
so that was it for me, excuse
me, yeah, um uh and yet I had my,you know, some of us other
(26:34):
Māori students there theywouldn't say anything but I got
up to tell him that no, and whathe was saying about us was not
good and not right. So heactually kicked all the students
out of class and made me stayand told me that he was going to
get me expelled, but you knowfortunately at that time we had
(26:55):
a lot of good Māori lecturersup here, Hamilton Teachers'
College and the changes werecoming. So good
Eleisha (27:03):
Yeah.
Mārama (27:04):
Uh you know and I went straight to see John Ford and my
lecturers and they they, he gotdisciplined for
Eleisha (27:11):
Good.
Mārama (27:12):
doing that um for making a student feel that you
were going to be booted out. Butanyway I did um my training here,
I enjoyed my training I wasfortunate enough to have um very
good associate teachers. The waywe were trained were, is
different from the way thetraining happens now Mārama.
(27:34):
Yeah the teachers college is very different to the
universities nowadays
And the other thing was that we had teachers who had
been teaching, uh long teachingexperience, had been teaching a
long time, had been in positionsof responsibility you know um,
and we were lucky that thenormal schools were here we used
(27:56):
to go into those and yeah had alot of time practicing before we
actually went out.
yeah so valuable yeah I had a lot of time in normal
schools as well
Ani (28:08):
yeah and we learned how, we learned about curriculum, what
curriculum was about and
Mārama (28:13):
You, you're most, you you and Dad, you've always most
um comfortable speaking in tereo, was that was that allowed
like as a student teacher wereyou allowed to switch back and
forth or did you have to speakEnglish
Oh no oh you see that that tino kōrero hea Te Reo
(28:35):
taua wā, what used to happenused um they started bringing in
like um pakiwaitaras you knowthe myths and legend thing, and
and Māori art and things likethat but it was never um done in
Māori I roto I te Reo and thete reo Māori was very
(28:58):
simplified you know kia ora,tēnā koe, kei te pehea koe you
know that, not full-blownconversation like I can deliver
in Māori. Yeah those were sortof like the very little
beginnings of using Māorisimplified. You had te reo
Māori classes but very simplelittle Māori classes yeah
(29:24):
And so when you first went into school did you have
any freedom to add more te reoto make you feel comfortable or
Ani (29:33):
Oh uh you worked within a very tight framework right, yeah
very simplified
framework, it wasn't. Māoriclub was the main thing having a
Mārama (29:45):
So was Māori club part of the curriculum or was that
was like an extra on top of
Ani (29:49):
Extra and it was funny how Māori teachers had to take it
all the time eh.
If you were a Māori teacher andyou went into a mainstream
school well you were given allthe Māori, all the naughty
Māori kids and all the, youwere giving all the Māori kids
that were naughty that couldn'tbe controlled, and you were
given the Māori club. It's whatyou did. I was there um yeah.
(30:16):
Anyway my train, I enjoyedtraining college, um I really
did. I um, I did a lot of Māoriart as well in at training
college um because we were luckyto have John Ford. I worked with
Katarina Mataira, I went inKatarina Mataira's group to
schools, to high schools umdoing Māori art
(30:38):
and we were involved we had alittle group that was involved
in restoring kowhaiwhai and
you know on the wharenuis aroundhere, I do like those kind of
things you know, Māori thingsas well. And and with the reo,
the reo doing creative dance andplays and i roto i te reo and
(31:00):
things like that yeah. So Icarry all those, I carried all
those things with me when I wentinto to Maraenui and to Ruatoki
and yeah but when I went toRuatoki to teach it just
blossomed.
Mārama (31:14):
Thank you so much, Aunty In the next episode, she's
gonna tell us about her time asa young kaiako, a tumuaki, and a
trailblazer. Mā te wā.
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