May 20, 2025 • 26 mins
Kia hakatōmuri te haere whakamua: ‘I walk backwards into the future with my eyes fixed on my past’
In this episode, Mārama continues the kōrero with her aunty, Ani Mohi (or Mrs Mohi to many), about her experiences as kaiako Māori, tumuaki Māori, and the beginnings of kura kaupapa Māori and kura ā iwi.
This episode is a personal tribute to those who walked before us, and a reminder that our stories — our whakapapa — are not just history, they are maps. They are a guide to help us reflect on your own leadership journey — where you’ve come from, who you carry with you, and what kind of future you want to help shape.
You can find more information about this topic in Looking after learning (part 4) of Te Ara Tīmatanga mō ngā Tumuaki - the Beginning Pathway for Principals e-learning modules.
In this episode, we speak with:
- Ani Mohi, Former Tumuaki of Te Kura Mana Māori o Maraenui
This podcast was produced for the Ministry of Education as part of Te Ara Tīmatanga mō ngā Tumuaki - The Beginning Pathway for Principals.
You can learn more by accessing Te Ara Tīmatanga mō ngā Tumuaki - The Beginning Pathway for Principals e-learning modules on the Education LMS: https://training.education.govt.nz
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mārama (00:07):
Kia ora and welcome to The Principals, a podcast series
for new tumuaki in Aotearoa, NewZealand. I'm Mārama Stewart.
Eleisha (00:16):
And I'm Eleisha McNeill. And today we continue talking
with Mārama's Aunty Ani Mohiabout her life as a teacher, a
principal. And as it turns out,a trailblazer.
Mārama (00:26):
I always knew Aunty was special, but until this kōrero,
I didn't quite know that she waspivotal in getting the Education
Act changed. But first, she'sgonna tell us about when she
first went into teaching.
Ani (00:38):
When I first came out of Teachers' Training College I
ended up at a school in Thamesat Moanatairehe was the first
open plan school in New Zealand
Eleisha (00:48):
(GIGGLES) Hmm.
Ani (00:49):
it was um very very different it was a huge, going
in as a first year teacher, manthat was a bit of a
Eleisha (00:55):
(GIGGLES)
Ani (00:56):
shock um because uh you know there were 90, 90 children
in the classroom in this bigroom huge room and there were
three of us and I I was theturdy that started, and I had
two senior teachers above me,two senior teachers and yeah and
so you taught you know in thishuge class and the kids would
(01:20):
rotate oh God it was bloodynoisy
Eleisha (01:23):
[laughs]
Ani (01:24):
gave you a
headache
Mārama (01:26):
So that's the 70s, I remember yeah
Ani (01:29):
Was it the 70s, yeah well I came out you know in the 70 yeah
in 70 and I went to that schooland I oh God that was my first
school yeah. And you know itused to just be, we standard
three to um yeah two form formtwo four classes in the one room
um but yeah but it was real realgood experience to go into
(01:53):
something like that as afirst-year
teacher.
Mārama (01:56):
Yeah try something different.
Ani (01:58):
If we move forward a little bit like into the 80s I remember
talking to you before, you wouldhave been home teaching in
Ruatoki when when the Kohangamovement started?
No I went to Waimana after Moanatairehe, I went back to
Waimana to teach at Waimanaafter back home but and that
(02:21):
that was a real pride goingthere because um I enjoyed
teaching in Waimana
back home with the whānau. Yeahand I stayed there in um 12
years I think I was in Waimanayeah
Um and then I I got my waewaetied up aye and um went down in
(02:44):
the coast I went to Whangaparaoaas a principal at Whangaparaoa
Mārama (02:49):
Oh you were the principal there
Ani (02:51):
At Whangaparaoa
Mārama (02:52):
When was that, in that 80s
Ani (02:54):
I got married before having Rongomai
you know
Mārama (02:58):
So that would have been
82?
Ani (03:01):
Yes I was at Whangaparaoa. I went there from Waimana well
because uh uncle was at um TeKaha at the high school at Te
Kaha. He was teaching there sowell I had to find a job I
couldn't get married and notfind a job so I had to find a
job. I had to leave Waimana andgo to to the coast, that's how I
(03:23):
ended up down the coast. Andthere and when I went the um
Authur Waititi, umRawiri'sRawiri's uncle
wanted me to start an immersionschool there at Whangapaaraoa.
and I
Mārama (03:39):
that was very early was that
Ani (03:41):
Yes it was
Mārama (03:44):
Were there any other immersion schools
before 66 00:00:00,-01 --> 00:00:00,-01 ?
Ani (03:50):
No, not on the coast. No the immersion school was still
Ruatoki, remember, right?
Mārama (03:55):
Yeah yeah yeah.
Ani (03:56):
The bilingual school there, the very first. no they wanted
that to happen that's whatArthur wanted. But anyway it
didn't it didn't come toanything, because Aunty got boop
Mārama (04:11):
[laughs] got hapu
Ani (04:12):
and
Whangaparaoa.
Mārama (04:14):
Were you going to be the principal at first immersion
school?
Ani (04:18):
Yeah of course that there was what he had been talking to
me about then when I ended up inWhangaparaoa. Yeah he was the
chairperson of my board.
Mārama (04:28):
hmm
Ani (04:29):
Yeah getting pregnant ruined it all yeah, because I
was only supposed to be on youknow
Mārama (04:34):
I was only going to take leave and um somehow sort
out what I was going to do withmy little pekanini
Rongomaihuatahi but I was goingback to Whangaparaoa that I just
decided no I would rather justlook after my baby and at that
time Auntie Emma Rogers, EmmaRogers, um Moneta Delemare’s
(04:57):
sister came to see me aboutkōhanga
reo. Hmm can you tell us more about that
Ani (05:02):
Kōhanga was starting that was back in the 80s, 82, 82 83,
yeah um and Te Whānau-ā-ApanuiAunty wanted to start off a
kōhanga reo down at TeWhānau-ā-Apanui and of course
I decided not to go back toWhangaparaoa so Arthur Waititi
never never forgave me for
(05:24):
that, because what did Ani do,she ended up at Maraenui and
started the kura there. Anywaygoing back to the kōhanga,
so we started with Auntie Emma,she asked me to go and help to
do the teaching, so I decided togo and do that so we worked out
(05:50):
of the
Omaio
school, the Omaio school had hada spare classroom and we used to
do kōhanga there with
with the children and the oneswho were interested at that time
and then we, Uncle and I
took all the elders from TeWhānau a Apanui we went over to
(06:12):
the big meeting at Ngaruawahiawhen John Rangihau and them were
still alive when they weremooting the idea of kōhanga reo
and they had their big meetingthere so we were we attended
Eleisha (06:25):
Hey, what was that first meeting like?
Ani (06:28):
It was huge, that was absolutely
huge yeah there were just somany people and what happened
was that they they had thembroken up
Eleisha (06:38):
Mmm.
Ani (06:38):
into classrooms and we went into or I went into one
classroom with Titoki McGarveyyou know Titoki Black you know
they ended up being one of thereal stalwarts of kōhanga who
died recently, yeah and theywere sort of she was sort of
becoming, learning how to impartkōhanga reo, how to teach
(06:58):
kōhanga reo to people, so Iwent and did with her to just do
a little bit of help with herbut
yeah it was wonderful becauseyou had all of a lot of iwi
Māori, or you know pakeke werealive then you know very
influential and pai ki tekōrero i te reo you know it was
just absolutely wonderfulbecause they were supposed to
(07:20):
buy Te Atairangikaahu, eh the
queen, and but no it was lovelyEleisha just seeing all those
old faces eh
Eleisha (07:31):
Mmm.
Ani (07:32):
full of wisdom yeah innovative, full of wisdom way
ahead of time way ahead of timethey were, t were just a
different different
aura, that we actually don't seenowadays. And then when we went
back from that meeting back tothe coast that's when the
(07:53):
Tokomaii or the Omaio Kōhangareo really started yeah. You
know we we started operating outof the school building then we
went to the Marae, we operatedout at the Marae at Omaio, and
then of course I got a noticethe Ruatoki Kura about wanting a
(08:16):
teacher there so I deserted thecoast and went back to Ruatoki.
Quite a few kids but we yeah we
Mārama (08:26):
Were were you funded or was this all just volunteer
Ani (08:29):
We weren't funded, it was all volunteer we weren't funded
and we we used to take all ourown kai and stuff like that, but
it was wonderful working withthe old because the old people
were alive then, a lot of Kuiaand Koraua and you know they
also used to bring their skillsinside the kōhanga reo too, we
used to do piupiu making and kitmaking and the kids used to make
(08:53):
little harakeke things and youknow, and was just having the
old people around the children,and listening to their reo, yeah
having their reo, and you knowthe the older one yeah it was
just yeah it was just so greatit was and. Very fortunate to
(09:14):
have that
Mārama (09:15):
Yeah it's very different at the way it
started.
Ani (09:19):
Oh yeah and it what we had no money we we had no money yeah
it was just out of yeah justlove for doing it yeah
Mārama (09:34):
Such a special thing to be part of and to take home with
your own kids I can yeah it's
amazing
Ani (09:36):
Oh well yeah my my Rongomai and Pita were spoken to in
Māori and only Māori rightfrom the day that we were born
yeah and yeah
Mārama (09:50):
And that was a conscious decision you an uncle
made
Ani (09:53):
Yeah and you know they and that was the crack up watching
them grow up, you know wemanaged to go to Ringatu Ra’s
and that with them and and theother children couldn't
understand what they were sayingand it was the way they used to
try and communicate those two itwas a crack up. It was so funny
(10:13):
yeah and you know and the oldpeople were just so fascinated
you know to have young ones liketwo young ones like that but
yeah and Rongomai being, she wasthe one that was you know full
of kōrero and she'd justkōrero all the time, but you
know it used to give the oldpeople a thrill to listen to
(10:36):
that but it was good that astime went along more and more
started to kōrero eh so it'sbecome something that you know
that we're all doing now eh
Mārama (10:46):
it's really interesting like your childhood it was
normal to speak to te reo andthen there's this massive gap
but you've started to heal thatthrough your own tamariki.
Yeah it's quite fascinating.
Ani (11:00):
Yeah, but um yeah no I suppose um one of the other
things is that it's being ableto impart, leave some of that
inside the tamariki that wetaught, you know like being at
Ruatoki when I went back toRuatoki to teach I loved my time
at Ruatoki, I really liked
(11:21):
enjoyed teaching my whanaungas,they were very, you know, very
tough you know but really yeahand a lot of what I learned and
took into Maraenui came fromunder people people from our
people from Tūhoe, from RuatokiSchool, remember. And the thing
(11:42):
I always say Ruatoki was thefirst.
Mārama (11:45):
Yeah
Ani (11:46):
reo. They were the the first kura te reo, they had that
concept and I was fortunate tobe working
people full of knowledge youknow and then parting and just
modeling things for us asteachers to see, so you know
I've been fortunate to see thosegood models.
Mārama (12:07):
yeah yeah
Ani (12:08):
So those models that they've shown I've taken they
haven't been mine, I've takenfrom those and implemented them
in what happened in Maraenui
Mārama (12:21):
So when you went to Maraenui, it at an immersion
school or was it mainstream
Ani (12:26):
Hey do you guys know that Maraenui was actually going to
be shut down?
Mārama (12:32):
no
Ani (12:33):
Well it was in the throes of being closed
Because at that time in the 90sabout the 90s they were starting
to close schools down you know.What they did to Maraenui was
that they took the Maraenuischool bus off it, the old
school education buses you seethose old red and white buses
(12:56):
you
know they're old as the hills.They had one of those and they
took it off so they couldn't gettheir children from the other
side of the river to Maraenui.
Eleisha (13:08):
Wow.
Ani (13:09):
And those children had to end up going to Omaio School and
of course the roll reallydropped, they dropped to, there
were only three students.
So the board chair and hislittle board that was left
worked very hard to try and keepthe school open. And they
(13:32):
decided, they had a big meetingat Te Kaha with the elders from
Te Whānau a Apanui who weregearing towards wanting to have
a kura kaupapa Maōri on thecoast, no
there were none, no
kura kaopapa Māori down TeWhānau a Apanui.
And they actually invited uncleand I, when the old people were
(13:55):
alive, to the Omaio School totalk about total immersion. What
the old people in Omaio wantedwas a kura kaupapa Māori
established but too many otherparents weren't, it they didn't
want it. But the old people hada meeting with Pem Bird Bird up
at Te Whānau a Apanui wanting akura kaupapa Māori to be
(14:19):
established somewhere along thecoast. And so Erueti Koopu and
Arama Koopu were at that meetingand they you know and they spoke
to Pem Bird that they wanted akura kaupapa Māori at Maraenui
so the school would stay open,that it wouldn't close, because
if it stayed as mainstream theywould have closed it. Yeah they
(14:40):
would have lost it so that'swhat they wanted. So on the way
back from Te Kaha, Pem Pem Birdcalled into our place in
Taneātua, and told me aboutMaraenui School board wanting a
kura kaupapa Māori, they werelooking for a tumuaki. So I
wrote my letter to the boardyeah, in Māori, to them all,
(15:01):
about applying for the job. Yeahand so that's how I got into
Maraenui was through there andum yeah when I first went there
were only not more than nine
children
Mārama (15:16):
And how many were there when you retired?
Ani (15:18):
When I went down, first got pōwhiried there to the
school, um the whānaus that hadgone away came back.
Mārama (15:28):
That's special so how many were kids ended up? By the
time you retired at your schoolwas go how big was Maraenui
School?
Ani (15:37):
It got up to 92 students yeah because there were
a lot of whānaus on the coastat that time. and um when I
first arrived it had actuallynothing really, absolutely
nothing. Didn't even, it had
might have been two Māori booksI think yeah
(16:00):
and very very little resource inthe school. I had a beautiful
beam, you know Olympic-size beamyou know uh for gymnastics yeah
for gymnastics and and thatbecause uh you know that the
board They her students hischildren used to do gymnastics
oh god his girls. Had thisbeautiful beam and these um
(16:25):
horses you know and these matsand and I thought is that all
they've got? And they've
got no books because thedaughter did gymnastics. Oh my
gosh. Oh and they
And that was it. There were twodesks I think or something like
that um and you know who helpedme out when I first moved to um
(16:47):
Maraenui was um Muriwai Joneswho was the principal of Opotiki
Primary um and was also theprincipal at Ahurena she gave me
all her old furniture becauseher husband Jim Jones was the
reliever for many for many termsat Maraenui School because you
know they were just trying tokeep the school open, and so
(17:09):
what Jim said he used to just goalong because there weren't very
many kids there and so there wasno money and so they just went
along to school did theirschoolwork and went home.
Mārama (17:17):
Oh gosh no for context for Eleisha to know, by the time
you left you'd built extraclassrooms, you had a recording
studio, you'd built a commercialkitchen, you used to go on trips
all over the country, you hadyour own buses
Ani (17:35):
Oh yeah we had our own buses, we had our own vans and
yeah we even had our own tractor.
Yeah but it had absolutely nofurniture and I was just lucky
with Muriwai and they theybrought in all the old furniture
from Opotiki Primary for thechildren because when and as it
(17:57):
was by the first term we were upto 21 students from when it
first started and um and then itwent up where you know it
enables you to give you twoteachers because I was sole
charge at that when I firstbegan
and of course the childrendidn't know how to speak Māori,
they didn't know how to listento Māori or speak Māori
(18:19):
Eleisha, and they knew omarapati you know oma rapati
Eleisha (18:22):
Oh, yeah. I remember that from school.
Ani (18:26):
it wasn't really
Eleisha (18:27):
[laughs]
Ani (18:27):
They knew that but they didn't know any they might have
known kia ora or whatever, butthey didn't know very much else
and there, the ones that I usedto have used to speak to and
talk to were my own children whowere in the classroom and I got
a lot of support from thetokomai kōhanga reo that I was
(18:50):
at before I went to Ruatoki.
Mārama (18:54):
It's incredible how you you know how grew and Maraenui
became one of the first Kura aIwi schools
Eleisha (19:02):
What's a Kura a Iwi, sorry?
Ani (19:05):
Oh well when we were we had been operating for about
three years because we had torewrite the cha uh you know put
together a a charter an ahōmatua a tūtohinga whatever we
call it now um and we put thattogether uh with in mind because
we had a big meeting with withwith the people and they wanted
(19:28):
that that our status remainedunder the iwi not under
Eleisha (19:32):
Ah!
Mārama (19:33):
Runanga Nui
Eleisha (19:34):
Right.
Mārama (19:35):
and we had a big meeting uh the kaumatua of the
hapū called a meeting of theelders and that that
documentation is still at schoolat Maraenui now, and they all
signed that the school was toremain you know really under
Apanui
Eleisha (19:53):
Wow.
Mārama (19:54):
Not under Runanga Nui, and they signed it all and so
when the Runanga came in to sayyay or nay to our status as a
kura kaupapa Māori, theywouldn't give us our status
because we didn't want tooperate underneath their te ahō
matua nor stay under them. Wedid not want an outside agent to
(20:16):
come in and tell us what to doinside Te Whānau a Apanui, so
that was actually taken toParliament as well there was a
big big hui up in Parliament andyeah and um we, Kura a Iwi stood
up um to have their own status.And so the first meetings for
(20:37):
that were held at Maraenui, andwe had Rākaumānga, Bāna, the
relation and Ruatoki joined
Maraenui yeah to um yeah tochase the a Iwi status not under
the Runanga nor under the ahōmatua because we had our own own
(21:00):
charter
Ani (21:02):
which was up.
Mārama (21:02):
You got the Education Act changed
Ani (21:06):
We did actually,
Eleisha (21:07):
[laughs]
Ani (21:07):
you
Eleisha (21:08):
Wow.
Ani (21:08):
No, what they no, what they called us was they called us
they called us the dinosaursthey put us under the dinosaur
they put us under 155 of the Actand called us the dinosaurs, the
three dinosaurs - MaraenuiSchool, Ruatoki and
Rākaumangamanga, yeah okay andso what what did we do after
(21:28):
that? We got the Ministry and wechanged our name and Maraenui
became the first school thatbecame Te Kura Mana Māori not
Te Kura Kaupapa Māori
Eleisha (21:39):
Wow.
Mārama (21:40):
You do like standing up and shaking the boat don't you
Aunty?
Eleisha (21:43):
[laughs]
Ani (21:44):
Yeah we were the first kura that became Te Kura Mana, we
changed it from Kaupapa to Mana,
and operated under an iwi sortof charter, iwi charter
Eleisha (21:58):
You're amazing.
Ani (22:00):
Yeah, ae. So that's where kura mana Māori comes from and
Whangaparaoa asked to use it andthen of course the next thing we
did we it was the composition ofour board and that's why I've
got to thank my relation Bānamean John Heremea from
Rakaumanga, he allowed us to usetheir constitution to set up our
(22:24):
board where we brought in allfactions of our school whānau
onto the open. We didn't have tofollow the rules that you have
your elections, your schoolelections, we're, it's quite
different we have a kai
kaiarahi, a kai tautoko thatcomes in and we do it as a
(22:48):
whānau inside a whānau hui andput up the board and kai tautoko
comes to that hui.
we 369 00:00:00,-01 --> 00:00:00,-01 .
And see Bāna has his school has every every you know
grouping in his school whānaugrouping, including the gangs,
sit on his board, and that'swhat we wanted for our kura like
(23:11):
we could have all of our hapūs.
Mārama (23:14):
That's amazing Aunty.
Ani (23:15):
got this is a big fat rave eh
Eleisha (23:18):
Ah, I tell you what, it is absolutely fascinating.
What an amazing, what an amazingperson you are and what, just an
incredible journey througheducation. Yeah, talk about
trail blazing, holy moly.
Mārama (23:33):
And under the radar Aunty right you've done so much.
Eleisha (23:36):
I can't
Mārama (23:37):
much
Eleisha (23:37):
believe you said to Mārama, "Well, why do you want
to talk to me?" [laughs]
Mārama (23:43):
Yeah this this is why you are so special as Mrs. Mohi
to so many people
Ani (23:50):
we could go on and on
Eleisha (23:52):
Oh, look.
It's so good. And, you know,just hearing about
your experiences at school andhow amazing, like, you know, I
was quite horrified by thenative school's name, but your
experiences there sounds amazing.It sounds quite lovely and, you
(24:12):
know,
Ani (24:13):
it's
Eleisha (24:13):
because it
Ani (24:13):
so
Eleisha (24:13):
was,
Ani (24:14):
spaceau
Eleisha (24:14):
yeah, safe space, exactly, not like the other.
Ani (24:17):
And we had our whānau I think, you know, and we had not
just our parents but our Auntiesand Uncles and Nannys and Koros
and it was yeah
Eleisha (24:27):
Yeah.
Ani (24:28):
now
Eleisha (24:29):
What do you think of what's going on now, like,
seeing Mārama as tumuaki, aswell I bet your're proud.
Ani (24:38):
Yeah yeah I actually feel a lot for you know the schools and
the people working in schoolsthe the principals and the
teachers now. Yeah there are twolots of things that are
pressuring you know instead ofjust leaving it to get on with
the teaching.
(24:58):
I don't know I'm just so gladthat I'm retired now. Yeah yeah
anyway lovely to talk with youguys nice to meet you.
Mārama (25:08):
thank you so
Eleisha (25:08):
yeah, thank
Mārama (25:09):
much
Eleisha (25:09):
you. It's been a
Mārama (25:10):
it's
Eleisha (25:10):
privilege.
Mārama (25:10):
a you did it all for me
Eleisha (25:12):
Thank you
Mārama (25:12):
okay
Eleisha (25:13):
so much.
Ani (25:13):
Me te aroha nui ki a koutou.
Mārama (25:16):
That was such an amazing experience. Honestly,
thank you for allowing me to dothat, Eleisha. I kind of knew
some of these stories, but theconnection with that past is so
important, I think, for ustumuaki Maōri to hear about.
And it's a motivation that manyof us need to understand because
(25:39):
that's what changed theeducation system
positively for many tumuakiMaōri, for tauira Māori, for
kaiako Māori.
I think it explains a lot,really, also why Kura Kaupapa
Māori has turned into a reallysafe space for children to learn
(26:00):
and to thrive within. And youcan see that in the results that
have come out recently. It's agreat story
Eleisha (26:07):
Well thank you for giving me the opportunity to
listen in. She's an amazingwoman and such a privilege to be
able to listen to those stories.
Mārama (26:17):
It's quite funny. I'm still laughing about her talking
about having brothers, being agood fighter. I going to have to
talk to her daughter about this.
Well, thank you so much,everybody, for listening. In the
next episode, I'll be flyingsolo, and talking to two amazing
tumuaki Māori about leading aschool within te ao Māori.
Kia ora and welcome to The Principals, a podcast series
for new tumuaki in Aotearoa, NewZealand. I'm Mārama Stewart.
Eleisha (00:16):
And I'm Eleisha McNeill. And today we continue talking
with Mārama's Aunty Ani Mohiabout her life as a teacher, a
principal. And as it turns out,a trailblazer.
Mārama (00:26):
I always knew Aunty was special, but until this kōrero,
I didn't quite know that she waspivotal in getting the Education
Act changed. But first, she'sgonna tell us about when she
first went into teaching.
Ani (00:38):
When I first came out of Teachers' Training College I
ended up at a school in Thamesat Moanatairehe was the first
open plan school in New Zealand
Eleisha (00:48):
(GIGGLES) Hmm.
Ani (00:49):
it was um very very different it was a huge, going
in as a first year teacher, manthat was a bit of a
Eleisha (00:55):
(GIGGLES)
Ani (00:56):
shock um because uh you know there were 90, 90 children
in the classroom in this bigroom huge room and there were
three of us and I I was theturdy that started, and I had
two senior teachers above me,two senior teachers and yeah and
so you taught you know in thishuge class and the kids would
(01:20):
rotate oh God it was bloodynoisy
Eleisha (01:23):
[laughs]
Ani (01:24):
gave you a
headache
Mārama (01:26):
So that's the 70s, I remember yeah
Ani (01:29):
Was it the 70s, yeah well I came out you know in the 70 yeah
in 70 and I went to that schooland I oh God that was my first
school yeah. And you know itused to just be, we standard
three to um yeah two form formtwo four classes in the one room
um but yeah but it was real realgood experience to go into
(01:53):
something like that as afirst-year
teacher.
Mārama (01:56):
Yeah try something different.
Ani (01:58):
If we move forward a little bit like into the 80s I remember
talking to you before, you wouldhave been home teaching in
Ruatoki when when the Kohangamovement started?
No I went to Waimana after Moanatairehe, I went back to
Waimana to teach at Waimanaafter back home but and that
(02:21):
that was a real pride goingthere because um I enjoyed
teaching in Waimana
back home with the whānau. Yeahand I stayed there in um 12
years I think I was in Waimanayeah
Um and then I I got my waewaetied up aye and um went down in
(02:44):
the coast I went to Whangaparaoaas a principal at Whangaparaoa
Mārama (02:49):
Oh you were the principal there
Ani (02:51):
At Whangaparaoa
Mārama (02:52):
When was that, in that 80s
Ani (02:54):
I got married before having Rongomai
you know
Mārama (02:58):
So that would have been
82?
Ani (03:01):
Yes I was at Whangaparaoa. I went there from Waimana well
because uh uncle was at um TeKaha at the high school at Te
Kaha. He was teaching there sowell I had to find a job I
couldn't get married and notfind a job so I had to find a
job. I had to leave Waimana andgo to to the coast, that's how I
(03:23):
ended up down the coast. Andthere and when I went the um
Authur Waititi, umRawiri'sRawiri's uncle
wanted me to start an immersionschool there at Whangapaaraoa.
and I
Mārama (03:39):
that was very early was that
Ani (03:41):
Yes it was
Mārama (03:44):
Were there any other immersion schools
before 66 00:00:00,-01 --> 00:00:00,-01 ?
Ani (03:50):
No, not on the coast. No the immersion school was still
Ruatoki, remember, right?
Mārama (03:55):
Yeah yeah yeah.
Ani (03:56):
The bilingual school there, the very first. no they wanted
that to happen that's whatArthur wanted. But anyway it
didn't it didn't come toanything, because Aunty got boop
Mārama (04:11):
[laughs] got hapu
Ani (04:12):
and
Whangaparaoa.
Mārama (04:14):
Were you going to be the principal at first immersion
school?
Ani (04:18):
Yeah of course that there was what he had been talking to
me about then when I ended up inWhangaparaoa. Yeah he was the
chairperson of my board.
Mārama (04:28):
hmm
Ani (04:29):
Yeah getting pregnant ruined it all yeah, because I
was only supposed to be on youknow
Mārama (04:34):
I was only going to take leave and um somehow sort
out what I was going to do withmy little pekanini
Rongomaihuatahi but I was goingback to Whangaparaoa that I just
decided no I would rather justlook after my baby and at that
time Auntie Emma Rogers, EmmaRogers, um Moneta Delemare’s
(04:57):
sister came to see me aboutkōhanga
reo. Hmm can you tell us more about that
Ani (05:02):
Kōhanga was starting that was back in the 80s, 82, 82 83,
yeah um and Te Whānau-ā-ApanuiAunty wanted to start off a
kōhanga reo down at TeWhānau-ā-Apanui and of course
I decided not to go back toWhangaparaoa so Arthur Waititi
never never forgave me for
(05:24):
that, because what did Ani do,she ended up at Maraenui and
started the kura there. Anywaygoing back to the kōhanga,
so we started with Auntie Emma,she asked me to go and help to
do the teaching, so I decided togo and do that so we worked out
(05:50):
of the
Omaio
school, the Omaio school had hada spare classroom and we used to
do kōhanga there with
with the children and the oneswho were interested at that time
and then we, Uncle and I
took all the elders from TeWhānau a Apanui we went over to
(06:12):
the big meeting at Ngaruawahiawhen John Rangihau and them were
still alive when they weremooting the idea of kōhanga reo
and they had their big meetingthere so we were we attended
Eleisha (06:25):
Hey, what was that first meeting like?
Ani (06:28):
It was huge, that was absolutely
huge yeah there were just somany people and what happened
was that they they had thembroken up
Eleisha (06:38):
Mmm.
Ani (06:38):
into classrooms and we went into or I went into one
classroom with Titoki McGarveyyou know Titoki Black you know
they ended up being one of thereal stalwarts of kōhanga who
died recently, yeah and theywere sort of she was sort of
becoming, learning how to impartkōhanga reo, how to teach
(06:58):
kōhanga reo to people, so Iwent and did with her to just do
a little bit of help with herbut
yeah it was wonderful becauseyou had all of a lot of iwi
Māori, or you know pakeke werealive then you know very
influential and pai ki tekōrero i te reo you know it was
just absolutely wonderfulbecause they were supposed to
(07:20):
buy Te Atairangikaahu, eh the
queen, and but no it was lovelyEleisha just seeing all those
old faces eh
Eleisha (07:31):
Mmm.
Ani (07:32):
full of wisdom yeah innovative, full of wisdom way
ahead of time way ahead of timethey were, t were just a
different different
aura, that we actually don't seenowadays. And then when we went
back from that meeting back tothe coast that's when the
(07:53):
Tokomaii or the Omaio Kōhangareo really started yeah. You
know we we started operating outof the school building then we
went to the Marae, we operatedout at the Marae at Omaio, and
then of course I got a noticethe Ruatoki Kura about wanting a
(08:16):
teacher there so I deserted thecoast and went back to Ruatoki.
Quite a few kids but we yeah we
Mārama (08:26):
Were were you funded or was this all just volunteer
Ani (08:29):
We weren't funded, it was all volunteer we weren't funded
and we we used to take all ourown kai and stuff like that, but
it was wonderful working withthe old because the old people
were alive then, a lot of Kuiaand Koraua and you know they
also used to bring their skillsinside the kōhanga reo too, we
used to do piupiu making and kitmaking and the kids used to make
(08:53):
little harakeke things and youknow, and was just having the
old people around the children,and listening to their reo, yeah
having their reo, and you knowthe the older one yeah it was
just yeah it was just so greatit was and. Very fortunate to
(09:14):
have that
Mārama (09:15):
Yeah it's very different at the way it
started.
Ani (09:19):
Oh yeah and it what we had no money we we had no money yeah
it was just out of yeah justlove for doing it yeah
Mārama (09:34):
Such a special thing to be part of and to take home with
your own kids I can yeah it's
amazing
Ani (09:36):
Oh well yeah my my Rongomai and Pita were spoken to in
Māori and only Māori rightfrom the day that we were born
yeah and yeah
Mārama (09:50):
And that was a conscious decision you an uncle
made
Ani (09:53):
Yeah and you know they and that was the crack up watching
them grow up, you know wemanaged to go to Ringatu Ra’s
and that with them and and theother children couldn't
understand what they were sayingand it was the way they used to
try and communicate those two itwas a crack up. It was so funny
(10:13):
yeah and you know and the oldpeople were just so fascinated
you know to have young ones liketwo young ones like that but
yeah and Rongomai being, she wasthe one that was you know full
of kōrero and she'd justkōrero all the time, but you
know it used to give the oldpeople a thrill to listen to
(10:36):
that but it was good that astime went along more and more
started to kōrero eh so it'sbecome something that you know
that we're all doing now eh
Mārama (10:46):
it's really interesting like your childhood it was
normal to speak to te reo andthen there's this massive gap
but you've started to heal thatthrough your own tamariki.
Yeah it's quite fascinating.
Ani (11:00):
Yeah, but um yeah no I suppose um one of the other
things is that it's being ableto impart, leave some of that
inside the tamariki that wetaught, you know like being at
Ruatoki when I went back toRuatoki to teach I loved my time
at Ruatoki, I really liked
(11:21):
enjoyed teaching my whanaungas,they were very, you know, very
tough you know but really yeahand a lot of what I learned and
took into Maraenui came fromunder people people from our
people from Tūhoe, from RuatokiSchool, remember. And the thing
(11:42):
I always say Ruatoki was thefirst.
Mārama (11:45):
Yeah
Ani (11:46):
reo. They were the the first kura te reo, they had that
concept and I was fortunate tobe working
people full of knowledge youknow and then parting and just
modeling things for us asteachers to see, so you know
I've been fortunate to see thosegood models.
Mārama (12:07):
yeah yeah
Ani (12:08):
So those models that they've shown I've taken they
haven't been mine, I've takenfrom those and implemented them
in what happened in Maraenui
Mārama (12:21):
So when you went to Maraenui, it at an immersion
school or was it mainstream
Ani (12:26):
Hey do you guys know that Maraenui was actually going to
be shut down?
Mārama (12:32):
no
Ani (12:33):
Well it was in the throes of being closed
Because at that time in the 90sabout the 90s they were starting
to close schools down you know.What they did to Maraenui was
that they took the Maraenuischool bus off it, the old
school education buses you seethose old red and white buses
(12:56):
you
know they're old as the hills.They had one of those and they
took it off so they couldn't gettheir children from the other
side of the river to Maraenui.
Eleisha (13:08):
Wow.
Ani (13:09):
And those children had to end up going to Omaio School and
of course the roll reallydropped, they dropped to, there
were only three students.
So the board chair and hislittle board that was left
worked very hard to try and keepthe school open. And they
(13:32):
decided, they had a big meetingat Te Kaha with the elders from
Te Whānau a Apanui who weregearing towards wanting to have
a kura kaupapa Maōri on thecoast, no
there were none, no
kura kaopapa Māori down TeWhānau a Apanui.
And they actually invited uncleand I, when the old people were
(13:55):
alive, to the Omaio School totalk about total immersion. What
the old people in Omaio wantedwas a kura kaupapa Māori
established but too many otherparents weren't, it they didn't
want it. But the old people hada meeting with Pem Bird Bird up
at Te Whānau a Apanui wanting akura kaupapa Māori to be
(14:19):
established somewhere along thecoast. And so Erueti Koopu and
Arama Koopu were at that meetingand they you know and they spoke
to Pem Bird that they wanted akura kaupapa Māori at Maraenui
so the school would stay open,that it wouldn't close, because
if it stayed as mainstream theywould have closed it. Yeah they
(14:40):
would have lost it so that'swhat they wanted. So on the way
back from Te Kaha, Pem Pem Birdcalled into our place in
Taneātua, and told me aboutMaraenui School board wanting a
kura kaupapa Māori, they werelooking for a tumuaki. So I
wrote my letter to the boardyeah, in Māori, to them all,
(15:01):
about applying for the job. Yeahand so that's how I got into
Maraenui was through there andum yeah when I first went there
were only not more than nine
children
Mārama (15:16):
And how many were there when you retired?
Ani (15:18):
When I went down, first got pōwhiried there to the
school, um the whānaus that hadgone away came back.
Mārama (15:28):
That's special so how many were kids ended up? By the
time you retired at your schoolwas go how big was Maraenui
School?
Ani (15:37):
It got up to 92 students yeah because there were
a lot of whānaus on the coastat that time. and um when I
first arrived it had actuallynothing really, absolutely
nothing. Didn't even, it had
might have been two Māori booksI think yeah
(16:00):
and very very little resource inthe school. I had a beautiful
beam, you know Olympic-size beamyou know uh for gymnastics yeah
for gymnastics and and thatbecause uh you know that the
board They her students hischildren used to do gymnastics
oh god his girls. Had thisbeautiful beam and these um
(16:25):
horses you know and these matsand and I thought is that all
they've got? And they've
got no books because thedaughter did gymnastics. Oh my
gosh. Oh and they
And that was it. There were twodesks I think or something like
that um and you know who helpedme out when I first moved to um
(16:47):
Maraenui was um Muriwai Joneswho was the principal of Opotiki
Primary um and was also theprincipal at Ahurena she gave me
all her old furniture becauseher husband Jim Jones was the
reliever for many for many termsat Maraenui School because you
know they were just trying tokeep the school open, and so
(17:09):
what Jim said he used to just goalong because there weren't very
many kids there and so there wasno money and so they just went
along to school did theirschoolwork and went home.
Mārama (17:17):
Oh gosh no for context for Eleisha to know, by the time
you left you'd built extraclassrooms, you had a recording
studio, you'd built a commercialkitchen, you used to go on trips
all over the country, you hadyour own buses
Ani (17:35):
Oh yeah we had our own buses, we had our own vans and
yeah we even had our own tractor.
Yeah but it had absolutely nofurniture and I was just lucky
with Muriwai and they theybrought in all the old furniture
from Opotiki Primary for thechildren because when and as it
(17:57):
was by the first term we were upto 21 students from when it
first started and um and then itwent up where you know it
enables you to give you twoteachers because I was sole
charge at that when I firstbegan
and of course the childrendidn't know how to speak Māori,
they didn't know how to listento Māori or speak Māori
(18:19):
Eleisha, and they knew omarapati you know oma rapati
Eleisha (18:22):
Oh, yeah. I remember that from school.
Ani (18:26):
it wasn't really
Eleisha (18:27):
[laughs]
Ani (18:27):
They knew that but they didn't know any they might have
known kia ora or whatever, butthey didn't know very much else
and there, the ones that I usedto have used to speak to and
talk to were my own children whowere in the classroom and I got
a lot of support from thetokomai kōhanga reo that I was
(18:50):
at before I went to Ruatoki.
Mārama (18:54):
It's incredible how you you know how grew and Maraenui
became one of the first Kura aIwi schools
Eleisha (19:02):
What's a Kura a Iwi, sorry?
Ani (19:05):
Oh well when we were we had been operating for about
three years because we had torewrite the cha uh you know put
together a a charter an ahōmatua a tūtohinga whatever we
call it now um and we put thattogether uh with in mind because
we had a big meeting with withwith the people and they wanted
(19:28):
that that our status remainedunder the iwi not under
Eleisha (19:32):
Ah!
Mārama (19:33):
Runanga Nui
Eleisha (19:34):
Right.
Mārama (19:35):
and we had a big meeting uh the kaumatua of the
hapū called a meeting of theelders and that that
documentation is still at schoolat Maraenui now, and they all
signed that the school was toremain you know really under
Apanui
Eleisha (19:53):
Wow.
Mārama (19:54):
Not under Runanga Nui, and they signed it all and so
when the Runanga came in to sayyay or nay to our status as a
kura kaupapa Māori, theywouldn't give us our status
because we didn't want tooperate underneath their te ahō
matua nor stay under them. Wedid not want an outside agent to
(20:16):
come in and tell us what to doinside Te Whānau a Apanui, so
that was actually taken toParliament as well there was a
big big hui up in Parliament andyeah and um we, Kura a Iwi stood
up um to have their own status.And so the first meetings for
(20:37):
that were held at Maraenui, andwe had Rākaumānga, Bāna, the
relation and Ruatoki joined
Maraenui yeah to um yeah tochase the a Iwi status not under
the Runanga nor under the ahōmatua because we had our own own
(21:00):
charter
Ani (21:02):
which was up.
Mārama (21:02):
You got the Education Act changed
Ani (21:06):
We did actually,
Eleisha (21:07):
[laughs]
Ani (21:07):
you
Eleisha (21:08):
Wow.
Ani (21:08):
No, what they no, what they called us was they called us
they called us the dinosaursthey put us under the dinosaur
they put us under 155 of the Actand called us the dinosaurs, the
three dinosaurs - MaraenuiSchool, Ruatoki and
Rākaumangamanga, yeah okay andso what what did we do after
(21:28):
that? We got the Ministry and wechanged our name and Maraenui
became the first school thatbecame Te Kura Mana Māori not
Te Kura Kaupapa Māori
Eleisha (21:39):
Wow.
Mārama (21:40):
You do like standing up and shaking the boat don't you
Aunty?
Eleisha (21:43):
[laughs]
Ani (21:44):
Yeah we were the first kura that became Te Kura Mana, we
changed it from Kaupapa to Mana,
and operated under an iwi sortof charter, iwi charter
Eleisha (21:58):
You're amazing.
Ani (22:00):
Yeah, ae. So that's where kura mana Māori comes from and
Whangaparaoa asked to use it andthen of course the next thing we
did we it was the composition ofour board and that's why I've
got to thank my relation Bānamean John Heremea from
Rakaumanga, he allowed us to usetheir constitution to set up our
(22:24):
board where we brought in allfactions of our school whānau
onto the open. We didn't have tofollow the rules that you have
your elections, your schoolelections, we're, it's quite
different we have a kai
kaiarahi, a kai tautoko thatcomes in and we do it as a
(22:48):
whānau inside a whānau hui andput up the board and kai tautoko
comes to that hui.
we 369 00:00:00,-01 --> 00:00:00,-01 .
And see Bāna has his school has every every you know
grouping in his school whānaugrouping, including the gangs,
sit on his board, and that'swhat we wanted for our kura like
(23:11):
we could have all of our hapūs.
Mārama (23:14):
That's amazing Aunty.
Ani (23:15):
got this is a big fat rave eh
Eleisha (23:18):
Ah, I tell you what, it is absolutely fascinating.
What an amazing, what an amazingperson you are and what, just an
incredible journey througheducation. Yeah, talk about
trail blazing, holy moly.
Mārama (23:33):
And under the radar Aunty right you've done so much.
Eleisha (23:36):
I can't
Mārama (23:37):
much
Eleisha (23:37):
believe you said to Mārama, "Well, why do you want
to talk to me?" [laughs]
Mārama (23:43):
Yeah this this is why you are so special as Mrs. Mohi
to so many people
Ani (23:50):
we could go on and on
Eleisha (23:52):
Oh, look.
It's so good. And, you know,just hearing about
your experiences at school andhow amazing, like, you know, I
was quite horrified by thenative school's name, but your
experiences there sounds amazing.It sounds quite lovely and, you
(24:12):
know,
Ani (24:13):
it's
Eleisha (24:13):
because it
Ani (24:13):
so
Eleisha (24:13):
was,
Ani (24:14):
spaceau
Eleisha (24:14):
yeah, safe space, exactly, not like the other.
Ani (24:17):
And we had our whānau I think, you know, and we had not
just our parents but our Auntiesand Uncles and Nannys and Koros
and it was yeah
Eleisha (24:27):
Yeah.
Ani (24:28):
now
Eleisha (24:29):
What do you think of what's going on now, like,
seeing Mārama as tumuaki, aswell I bet your're proud.
Ani (24:38):
Yeah yeah I actually feel a lot for you know the schools and
the people working in schoolsthe the principals and the
teachers now. Yeah there are twolots of things that are
pressuring you know instead ofjust leaving it to get on with
the teaching.
(24:58):
I don't know I'm just so gladthat I'm retired now. Yeah yeah
anyway lovely to talk with youguys nice to meet you.
Mārama (25:08):
thank you so
Eleisha (25:08):
yeah, thank
Mārama (25:09):
much
Eleisha (25:09):
you. It's been a
Mārama (25:10):
it's
Eleisha (25:10):
privilege.
Mārama (25:10):
a you did it all for me
Eleisha (25:12):
Thank you
Mārama (25:12):
okay
Eleisha (25:13):
so much.
Ani (25:13):
Me te aroha nui ki a koutou.
Mārama (25:16):
That was such an amazing experience. Honestly,
thank you for allowing me to dothat, Eleisha. I kind of knew
some of these stories, but theconnection with that past is so
important, I think, for ustumuaki Maōri to hear about.
And it's a motivation that manyof us need to understand because
(25:39):
that's what changed theeducation system
positively for many tumuakiMaōri, for tauira Māori, for
kaiako Māori.
I think it explains a lot,really, also why Kura Kaupapa
Māori has turned into a reallysafe space for children to learn
(26:00):
and to thrive within. And youcan see that in the results that
have come out recently. It's agreat story
Eleisha (26:07):
Well thank you for giving me the opportunity to
listen in. She's an amazingwoman and such a privilege to be
able to listen to those stories.
Mārama (26:17):
It's quite funny. I'm still laughing about her talking
about having brothers, being agood fighter. I going to have to
talk to her daughter about this.
Well, thank you so much,everybody, for listening. In the
next episode, I'll be flyingsolo, and talking to two amazing
tumuaki Māori about leading aschool within te ao Māori.
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