June 9, 2025 • 20 mins
This episode discusses the challenges of recruiting te reo speaking kaiako, and of creative ways of addressing the issue.
Mārama’s guests are:
- Robin Fabish, former tumuaki and current Leadership Advisor for the Ministry of Education
- Nori Parata, tumuaki of Kahukuranui and Tolaga Bay Area school
This podcast was produced for the Ministry of Education as part of Te Ara Tīmatanga mō ngā Tumuaki - The Beginning Pathway for Principals.
You can learn more by accessing Te Ara Tīmatanga mō ngā Tumuaki - The Beginning Pathway for Principals e-learning modules on the Education LMS: https://training.education.govt.nz
Show notes
Episode themes:
- The difficulties of recruiting all kaiako, and the particular challenge of recruiting te reo speakers, which is even greater in rural and remote areas. Relievers are an additional challenge.
- The E-Bite programme, which allows fluent te reo speakers to be employed on a Limited Authority to Teach (LAT) while they get their teaching qualification.
- Using kaiāwhina i te reo, kaitautoko i te reo, and kaiārahi i te reo in classes where you can’t find a te reo teacher, treating them like a beginning teacher and providing them with good support.
- Employing a LAT might sometimes mean assisting someone to apply for the LAT and paying for the application and renewals to keep them on.
- Ensuring that te reo speaking kaiako have everything they need to do the job, so ensuring there is adequate budget for all they need.
- Using the knowledge of the tumuaki around you to help with questions you may have.
Additional information
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mārama (00:07):
Kia ora and welcome to The Principals, a podcast series
for new tumuaki in Aotearoa NewZealand. My name is Mārama
Stewart. There's no doubt thatrecruiting kaiako has been
challenging in recent years, andrecruiting te reo Māori's
speaking kaiako is even moredifficult, and that's the
subject of this episode. I'llask my guests to introduce
(00:29):
themselves
Nori (00:29):
Tēna tatou. Ko Hikurangi te maunga, ko Waiapu te awa, ko
Ngāti Porou te iwi, ko NoriParata ahau, ko au te tumuaki o
Te Kura a Rohe o Uawa meKahukuranui.
Mārama (00:43):
Thank you, Nori, and Robin
Robin (00:45):
Tēna koutou e te whānau, no Ngāti Mahanga ahau, Ngāti
Maniapoto hoki, he honongawhakapono to mātau ki Parihaka,
ko Robin Fabish ahau, kei temihi atu ki a koutou.
Mārama (01:02):
Thank you. And it's been a real pleasure. I've got
to know both of you through theLeadership Advisory Service and
it's really great to be able tocatch up again. And Robin,
you're still working within thisservice. Do you want to give us
the update on our workforce atthe moment? Like, this is for
our beginning principlesobviously, they may not
understand the options andavailability of using the
(01:25):
limited authority to teach orwhat they can do, perhaps if
they are struggling to findstaff.
Robin (01:32):
Sure. Well, particularly in the context of kaiako it is a
real challenge. I'm working withthe research group at the on
giving effect to Te Tiriti oWaitangi, and the principals who
want to do the right thing orthe best thing they can by
finding kaiako Maōri for theirstudents tell me that it's a
(01:54):
real barrier to find kaiakoMāori who have te reo Māori
ability to run rūmaki reo orreo rua classes, immersion and
bilingual classes. So there'sdefinitely a real challenge, and
I know, from my own in thatspace, and other principals that
(02:15):
I dealt with, there's a realvulnerability,
if a kaiako Māori gets sick,there's not a whole bunch of
relievers available kaiako whoreadily able to step into that
space. And that makesauthenticity of the programs
that you're trying to run putsthem at risk and the learning of
(02:39):
the students puts them at riskas well. So that's a real
challenge, and I know that theministry is aware of that and
there's no quick fix. We can'tdial up overseas to the
Philippines and get reo Māoriteachers flown over by the plane
load, because this is wherewe're from. So we've got to take
a medium long term perspectiveand I know the Ministry is
(03:03):
trying to address that withthings like the the E-BITE
program, which you know, newprincipals can search this on
the Ministry website, and solike E for elephant,
B-I-T-E, that's a Maori-mediumteacher training award, and
people who have limitedauthority to So you might have
(03:28):
somebody in your community who'swho's a fluent reo speaker or
has come out of a universityprogram, having done the reo or
has, you know, graduated fromsome of our kura with the reo,
you can employ them on a limitedauthority to teach, which means
that they can take a at the sametime they can be doing an E-BITE
(03:50):
program, which means they can dotheir and become qualified. And
I think Nori, up the coast, doyou guys do something similar to
that? Is that right?
Nori (04:00):
Yes, we've used the E-BITE programs as well. But, you know,
while there is a general supplyissue for immersion and kura
throughout I'd also highlight,because I'm in an area that's
rural and remote, that it iseven more difficult to be able
to recruit teachers positions ofteaching either te reo or
(04:25):
teaching in te reo. So it is areal challenge and you have to,
as a principal, become verycreative in how you might
address those issues.
Mārama (04:37):
Could you give us some examples of that Nori?
Nori (04:40):
Of being creative. Well, the one that's most used, and I
know it's not just used up here,I know it's used throughout the
country, is that, you know, weare employing kaiāwhina e te
reo, kaitautoko e te reo,kaiārahi e te reo so that they
have employment while they aredoing the training to get the
(05:05):
qualification. That is, you know,a huge ask to be almost
full-time teaching at times, or,you know, supporting in a
classroom, as well as meetingrequirements of diploma of
teaching or your Bachelor ofTeaching, but it most effective
and most beneficial for us,because we are able to get these
(05:29):
people to be in supportpositions in the classroom, and
at times on LAT, as Robin hastalked about, to be able to take
classes so that provides us withstaffing, and it also provides
them employment to support theirteaching and learning. It's not
the ideal, and it's not theideal having LATs, but it is the
(05:51):
reality of what we have to do tobe able to have teachers in
front of classes, and, you know,I can remember advertising over
the last, or four years, fiveyears for teachers for our
rumaki reo class, and getting noapplications at all. And so that
is why we have turned supportingthese students through their
(06:15):
training, on a LAT or as akaiāwhina in the classroom, to
be able to have that support.And while it fills a gap, it is
not the ideal, because it meansthat they haven't had all the
professional learning that theyshould have as part of a
Bachelor of Teaching, to be ableto implement in their classroom,
(06:38):
so you know, and if you've got agreat kaiako, then it's highly
likely that the modelling willmean that you have these LATs
and kaiāwhina that are going tobe great.
Mārama (06:49):
I'm hearing that actually, if you are thinking of
going down that road, to to getkaiāwhina and kaiarahi i te reo,
we should really treat them likea beginning teacher and provide
them with some pretty formalsupport.
Nori (07:03):
You do absolutely, you do have to have support in place
for them. We work closely withTe Wānanga o Raukawa on their
programmes, about, they hadquite a large component of hapū
iwi studies in their Bachelor ofTeaching, so we work quite
strongly with them, because notlooking for teachers that can
(07:26):
teach in, in our immersionsituations that just have just a
general understanding of Māori.We are looking for Ngāti Porou
teachers that have strong NgātiReo, that understand Ngāti
Porou tikanga. And so wecontribute to the programme in
terms of We've also from withinour community, within the hapū
(07:50):
and iwi a group of experts in tereo me ōna tikanga to support
these students in their study
Mārama (07:57):
So in order to enable this, you must have fairly very
tight or strong connection withNgāti Porou.
Absolutely, all the schools on the you know, are
based on their turangawaewae,they're tangata whenua, and all
have strong connections with themarae, the hapū in their area,
because that is the curriculumthat we want to reflect. Over
(08:20):
the years, there's become animbalance where once upon a time
the school would go out to thehapū and the iwi and be a part
of what was going on there, andwe still do that, but more and
more, it's becoming dependent onthe school to be carrying te reo
me ōna tikanga in ourcommunities, which has
challenges in itself.
(08:41):
Yeah, yeah, Robin, have you seen the same over your way?
Well, there's a few from what Nori's has been
talking that I think are reallyimportant, and you know, the
ideal is having really stronghapū connections with the kura
and iwi connections with thekura so we're working together
(09:03):
to you know, the pool ofteachers who have the to meet
the need, my experience is thata lot of our principals
understand in their hearts thatthe best thing to do if we're
wanting to give effect to TeTiriti o Waitangi, and we're
Māori to succeed as Māori orNgāti Porou to succeed as
Ngāti Porou, that we need toprovide rumaki and reo rua in
(09:29):
our kura, because without thereo, then it's difficult for us
to as Māori to stand strong asMāori and participate in te ao
Māori, we also to be strong inthe wider you know, so our want
it all for our mokopuna, youknow, the reo, as well as
(09:50):
Western knowledge and to bestrong in all facets, and so the
challenge for when we're runningour schools is how do we find
those kaiako and develop them,and I think Nori's talked about
working closely with hapū andiwi and providing partnerships,
and I just want to say that Ithink one of the things that's
(10:12):
really important when I'm tryingfill positions in our kura with
Māori kaiako is that I need tomake sure that they understand
that my kura is a place thatvalues te reo, that welcomes te
reo, and supports in our kura,and that means that our board
(10:32):
understands why it's important,and they back it, and our senior
leadership team understands whyit's important and that we give
it 100%, so that we've gotkaiako when they come in, they
know they're not going to be thelonely Māori, who's going to be
in charge of everything in theschool and everything will get
dumped on them, and after twoyears they'll be burned out and
(10:56):
they'll go somewhere else andleave the profession. And so if
I'm a new principal, I have tobe really mindful of that
finding a kaiako or people whohave the capacity to help the
school to achieve their goals,we've got to treat them like
gold, and that means they'rewell-resourced, you're probably
(11:17):
not going to, if you're doingdepartmental budgets, we're
probably not going to say, okay,Māori department's going to get
the same as everyone else,because typically it's an area
that needs to be built up, soyou need to give additional
funding to be able to enhancewhat that kaiako's going to be
trying to and allow them
(11:37):
the tools to be able to do that,so that's in the
resources to support whatthey're doing, if it's about we
need to get a new set of piupiufor our kapa so they're not
looking like a rag tag mob,let's find the money to do that,
so as a tumuaki you've got to be100% committed, we'll find the
money, we'll find the kaiako,and this is a place where you're
(12:02):
valued and welcomed. And whatthat meant for me is that
anytime I was in the community,particularly in the Māori
community, I would be operatingin a way that people would think,
gee, I would like to go and workwith that man, I think that
would be a nice place for me togo in that kura, I would be
supported, I like his philosophy,I like how he is in the world,
(12:24):
and I would apply for a positionin that kura, so there's just a
couple of whakaaro from me.
A little bit boring part. You talked about budgets.
So I think, could you explainhow you can Nori, perhaps? Can
you explain how you can pay fora LAT, does it have to be
through your own funds or canyou use your banking staff?
(12:46):
No,no , we don't for the LATs because I am keen to
secure them while I can. Youknow, when somebody passes your
door and you, and you need extrastaff, th I'm going to do all
sorts of things to make thatpossible, you know, and that
includes them applying for theLAT, assisting with the process
(13:07):
of applying, but also paying forthe LAT, you know, because I
don't know how much it is, it'sa few hundred or whatever, and
also paying for a renewal ofthat LAT. And I budget to do you
know. I agree with Robyn, youhave to make the resources, if
you are truly investing in tereo, then you have to invest in
(13:29):
the resources as a principalthat will allow it to flourish,
because it is hard enoughwithout having the resources to
do it. So the example he used ispiupiu, is a set of piupiu, and
whatnot, I have that in my assetreplacement budget. So I'm about
to order another set that'sgoing to cost us in the vicinity
(13:52):
of $40, 000 to do that. But ifwe think that we're going to
invest in the science equipmentthat we need in the science lab
and the PE equipment that weneed in the gym, then why would
we not invest in it? Why wouldit be the only place where we
are asking parents and whānauto fundraise for piupiu and pare
(14:13):
and whatnot, when it absolutelysymbolic of what we are trying
to represent for the kids in ourschools. So, you I do that there
too.
I budget kai in our rumaki area,because it's an integral part of
the lifestyle. I ensure thatthey are able to have and get
(14:37):
the kai resources that they needto with a budget that allows
them to do it. When we design,redesigned the school, we
redesigned their kitchen toresemble a marae kitchen on a
smaller scale. So that you arenot asking them to fit in with a
normal food tech building that'snot designed for the kind of
(15:00):
learning that they will need todo around food technology in kai.
So, you know, when you're doingthat redesign, you make sure
that that's your budget forthings like... So, examples like
that. You don't have to try andfit what is existing. You make
it fit the philosophy and thekaupapa of the learning
environment.
(15:21):
And in terms of like paying the salaries, can you
do... do you have to use youroperations grant, or can you use
bank staffing to pay that?
Nori (15:29):
If they're on a LAT, then you can use staffing entitlement
to do that, because a limitedauthority to teach means that
you have formal recognition fromthe New Zealand teaching council
to be teaching in a school,whether that has caveats on it
for specific subjects, orwhether it's a generalist or
(15:50):
whether it's a casual relieverin the school, they have the LAT,
so therefore you are able to usestaffing entitlement. but you
know, they could come out of opsgrants as well. And I've done
both. I've done both
Mārama (16:04):
So, who should a beginning principal turn if
they're trying to figure outthat kind of budgeting balance?
How can, who I can afford andhow do I support this person?
The first thing they need to be on is on a good
beginning induction program andthere are good induction
(16:25):
programs and for Māoriprincipals principals who are
going to be immersion or kurathen they should go to one that
a high facilitation by aexperienced Māori principal,
because these are usually run byex-principals those induction
programs and they shouldactively seek those out. In
(16:46):
addition they should activelylook at the kura around them
schools around them or ask aboutwho knows an experienced Māori
principal, or a good principalthat has predominantly Māori
students that visibly showsexpression of tikanga and te reo
in their school. It's not hard,just pick up the phone and ring
(17:08):
somebody and ask them, you know,if they don't know they're going
to put you on to somebody. And Ireally do encourage them to do
that because it will save a lotof red tape it will save a lot
of them trawling websites to tryto find the right information if
they're just ring somebodythey're going to tell them and
then they're going to say golook in this part of the website
(17:30):
on the site or something likethat.
You know, that's a perfect kind of opportunity for,
Robin, to jump in and save theday
Contact your regional advisor and as you know Mārama
because I think you held theposition of a leadership advisor
for
Tukuaki Māori in mainstream schools
Yeah so that's the kind of people that you're looking
(17:53):
for when you're a beginnerprincipal. One of the other
things I'd say is, and I knowit's harder to do, and easier
for me to say, is tumuaki ofsmall schools going in to fill
the gap of not having a teacherin the classroom and whatnot.
There are times where that willprobably have to happen, but I
(18:16):
would suggest that they try todevelop strategies that they
don't do that all the time,because you still have to be
able to be up a level where youcan see what's actually
happening, instead of alwaysbeing in their filling the
Because there will be issuesthat come out, you will be
looking for other solutionsabout how you can do that,
because if you carry on doingthat you're going to get as
(18:38):
Robin said, high burnout, you'regoing to say, "oh, stuff this,
this is too hard, too much," andto look for those creative ways
of how you bring in parents andwhānau to support
programs, which is gettingharder and harder I would say
too, because they have to work,families have to work, economic
(18:59):
times are tough, and so they'regoing to have to work and
whatnot. But there are stillways to get people to come and
support part of the day in yourclassrooms and what not. I think
most kura and well I certainlyknow area schools with immersion,
they get an allocation from theMinistry for expertise. You know,
(19:20):
there's the opportunity to turnthat into paying for wānanga,
for experts to come in and takewānanga, you know, over a
couple of days, or whatever,things like that, they've got
lots of opportunities to becreative with that kind of
resource.
Yeah, Robin, if you're advising a beginning principal,
are there any kind of safety orHR kind of things they need to
(19:43):
look out for when employing, saysomeone who's not a registered
teacher?
You know, bottom line, if you can't get somebody who is
fully registered as a teacher,and you're having to use a LAT,
the good thing about a LAT isthat they've been through a
Teacher's Council process andthey're approved to teach, so
(20:03):
you know, the health and safetyissues are covered off, but
using external people to come towork with the students, then
most of us, our health andsafety policy will require us to
have done a police check withthem. So, you know, you want to
make sure that people areworking with our tamariki, our
(20:25):
mokopuna, that our tamariki andmokopuna are going to be safe.
Um, so, so there is you know, tobe aware of.
Ngā mihi ki a kōrua. Robin and Nori are staying with
us for the next episode, whenwe'll talk about some of the
creative ways the shortage of tereo Māori-speaking kaiako have
been dealt with in the past,including using fluent freezing
(20:47):
workers as teachers. Mā te wā.
Kia ora and welcome to The Principals, a podcast series
for new tumuaki in Aotearoa NewZealand. My name is Mārama
Stewart. There's no doubt thatrecruiting kaiako has been
challenging in recent years, andrecruiting te reo Māori's
speaking kaiako is even moredifficult, and that's the
subject of this episode. I'llask my guests to introduce
(00:29):
themselves
Nori (00:29):
Tēna tatou. Ko Hikurangi te maunga, ko Waiapu te awa, ko
Ngāti Porou te iwi, ko NoriParata ahau, ko au te tumuaki o
Te Kura a Rohe o Uawa meKahukuranui.
Mārama (00:43):
Thank you, Nori, and Robin
Robin (00:45):
Tēna koutou e te whānau, no Ngāti Mahanga ahau, Ngāti
Maniapoto hoki, he honongawhakapono to mātau ki Parihaka,
ko Robin Fabish ahau, kei temihi atu ki a koutou.
Mārama (01:02):
Thank you. And it's been a real pleasure. I've got
to know both of you through theLeadership Advisory Service and
it's really great to be able tocatch up again. And Robin,
you're still working within thisservice. Do you want to give us
the update on our workforce atthe moment? Like, this is for
our beginning principlesobviously, they may not
understand the options andavailability of using the
(01:25):
limited authority to teach orwhat they can do, perhaps if
they are struggling to findstaff.
Robin (01:32):
Sure. Well, particularly in the context of kaiako it is a
real challenge. I'm working withthe research group at the on
giving effect to Te Tiriti oWaitangi, and the principals who
want to do the right thing orthe best thing they can by
finding kaiako Maōri for theirstudents tell me that it's a
(01:54):
real barrier to find kaiakoMāori who have te reo Māori
ability to run rūmaki reo orreo rua classes, immersion and
bilingual classes. So there'sdefinitely a real challenge, and
I know, from my own in thatspace, and other principals that
(02:15):
I dealt with, there's a realvulnerability,
if a kaiako Māori gets sick,there's not a whole bunch of
relievers available kaiako whoreadily able to step into that
space. And that makesauthenticity of the programs
that you're trying to run putsthem at risk and the learning of
(02:39):
the students puts them at riskas well. So that's a real
challenge, and I know that theministry is aware of that and
there's no quick fix. We can'tdial up overseas to the
Philippines and get reo Māoriteachers flown over by the plane
load, because this is wherewe're from. So we've got to take
a medium long term perspectiveand I know the Ministry is
(03:03):
trying to address that withthings like the the E-BITE
program, which you know, newprincipals can search this on
the Ministry website, and solike E for elephant,
B-I-T-E, that's a Maori-mediumteacher training award, and
people who have limitedauthority to So you might have
(03:28):
somebody in your community who'swho's a fluent reo speaker or
has come out of a universityprogram, having done the reo or
has, you know, graduated fromsome of our kura with the reo,
you can employ them on a limitedauthority to teach, which means
that they can take a at the sametime they can be doing an E-BITE
(03:50):
program, which means they can dotheir and become qualified. And
I think Nori, up the coast, doyou guys do something similar to
that? Is that right?
Nori (04:00):
Yes, we've used the E-BITE programs as well. But, you know,
while there is a general supplyissue for immersion and kura
throughout I'd also highlight,because I'm in an area that's
rural and remote, that it iseven more difficult to be able
to recruit teachers positions ofteaching either te reo or
(04:25):
teaching in te reo. So it is areal challenge and you have to,
as a principal, become verycreative in how you might
address those issues.
Mārama (04:37):
Could you give us some examples of that Nori?
Nori (04:40):
Of being creative. Well, the one that's most used, and I
know it's not just used up here,I know it's used throughout the
country, is that, you know, weare employing kaiāwhina e te
reo, kaitautoko e te reo,kaiārahi e te reo so that they
have employment while they aredoing the training to get the
(05:05):
qualification. That is, you know,a huge ask to be almost
full-time teaching at times, or,you know, supporting in a
classroom, as well as meetingrequirements of diploma of
teaching or your Bachelor ofTeaching, but it most effective
and most beneficial for us,because we are able to get these
(05:29):
people to be in supportpositions in the classroom, and
at times on LAT, as Robin hastalked about, to be able to take
classes so that provides us withstaffing, and it also provides
them employment to support theirteaching and learning. It's not
the ideal, and it's not theideal having LATs, but it is the
(05:51):
reality of what we have to do tobe able to have teachers in
front of classes, and, you know,I can remember advertising over
the last, or four years, fiveyears for teachers for our
rumaki reo class, and getting noapplications at all. And so that
is why we have turned supportingthese students through their
(06:15):
training, on a LAT or as akaiāwhina in the classroom, to
be able to have that support.And while it fills a gap, it is
not the ideal, because it meansthat they haven't had all the
professional learning that theyshould have as part of a
Bachelor of Teaching, to be ableto implement in their classroom,
(06:38):
so you know, and if you've got agreat kaiako, then it's highly
likely that the modelling willmean that you have these LATs
and kaiāwhina that are going tobe great.
Mārama (06:49):
I'm hearing that actually, if you are thinking of
going down that road, to to getkaiāwhina and kaiarahi i te reo,
we should really treat them likea beginning teacher and provide
them with some pretty formalsupport.
Nori (07:03):
You do absolutely, you do have to have support in place
for them. We work closely withTe Wānanga o Raukawa on their
programmes, about, they hadquite a large component of hapū
iwi studies in their Bachelor ofTeaching, so we work quite
strongly with them, because notlooking for teachers that can
(07:26):
teach in, in our immersionsituations that just have just a
general understanding of Māori.We are looking for Ngāti Porou
teachers that have strong NgātiReo, that understand Ngāti
Porou tikanga. And so wecontribute to the programme in
terms of We've also from withinour community, within the hapū
(07:50):
and iwi a group of experts in tereo me ōna tikanga to support
these students in their study
Mārama (07:57):
So in order to enable this, you must have fairly very
tight or strong connection withNgāti Porou.
Absolutely, all the schools on the you know, are
based on their turangawaewae,they're tangata whenua, and all
have strong connections with themarae, the hapū in their area,
because that is the curriculumthat we want to reflect. Over
(08:20):
the years, there's become animbalance where once upon a time
the school would go out to thehapū and the iwi and be a part
of what was going on there, andwe still do that, but more and
more, it's becoming dependent onthe school to be carrying te reo
me ōna tikanga in ourcommunities, which has
challenges in itself.
(08:41):
Yeah, yeah, Robin, have you seen the same over your way?
Well, there's a few from what Nori's has been
talking that I think are reallyimportant, and you know, the
ideal is having really stronghapū connections with the kura
and iwi connections with thekura so we're working together
(09:03):
to you know, the pool ofteachers who have the to meet
the need, my experience is thata lot of our principals
understand in their hearts thatthe best thing to do if we're
wanting to give effect to TeTiriti o Waitangi, and we're
Māori to succeed as Māori orNgāti Porou to succeed as
Ngāti Porou, that we need toprovide rumaki and reo rua in
(09:29):
our kura, because without thereo, then it's difficult for us
to as Māori to stand strong asMāori and participate in te ao
Māori, we also to be strong inthe wider you know, so our want
it all for our mokopuna, youknow, the reo, as well as
(09:50):
Western knowledge and to bestrong in all facets, and so the
challenge for when we're runningour schools is how do we find
those kaiako and develop them,and I think Nori's talked about
working closely with hapū andiwi and providing partnerships,
and I just want to say that Ithink one of the things that's
(10:12):
really important when I'm tryingfill positions in our kura with
Māori kaiako is that I need tomake sure that they understand
that my kura is a place thatvalues te reo, that welcomes te
reo, and supports in our kura,and that means that our board
(10:32):
understands why it's important,and they back it, and our senior
leadership team understands whyit's important and that we give
it 100%, so that we've gotkaiako when they come in, they
know they're not going to be thelonely Māori, who's going to be
in charge of everything in theschool and everything will get
dumped on them, and after twoyears they'll be burned out and
(10:56):
they'll go somewhere else andleave the profession. And so if
I'm a new principal, I have tobe really mindful of that
finding a kaiako or people whohave the capacity to help the
school to achieve their goals,we've got to treat them like
gold, and that means they'rewell-resourced, you're probably
(11:17):
not going to, if you're doingdepartmental budgets, we're
probably not going to say, okay,Māori department's going to get
the same as everyone else,because typically it's an area
that needs to be built up, soyou need to give additional
funding to be able to enhancewhat that kaiako's going to be
trying to and allow them
(11:37):
the tools to be able to do that,so that's in the
resources to support whatthey're doing, if it's about we
need to get a new set of piupiufor our kapa so they're not
looking like a rag tag mob,let's find the money to do that,
so as a tumuaki you've got to be100% committed, we'll find the
money, we'll find the kaiako,and this is a place where you're
(12:02):
valued and welcomed. And whatthat meant for me is that
anytime I was in the community,particularly in the Māori
community, I would be operatingin a way that people would think,
gee, I would like to go and workwith that man, I think that
would be a nice place for me togo in that kura, I would be
supported, I like his philosophy,I like how he is in the world,
(12:24):
and I would apply for a positionin that kura, so there's just a
couple of whakaaro from me.
A little bit boring part. You talked about budgets.
So I think, could you explainhow you can Nori, perhaps? Can
you explain how you can pay fora LAT, does it have to be
through your own funds or canyou use your banking staff?
(12:46):
No,no , we don't for the LATs because I am keen to
secure them while I can. Youknow, when somebody passes your
door and you, and you need extrastaff, th I'm going to do all
sorts of things to make thatpossible, you know, and that
includes them applying for theLAT, assisting with the process
(13:07):
of applying, but also paying forthe LAT, you know, because I
don't know how much it is, it'sa few hundred or whatever, and
also paying for a renewal ofthat LAT. And I budget to do you
know. I agree with Robyn, youhave to make the resources, if
you are truly investing in tereo, then you have to invest in
(13:29):
the resources as a principalthat will allow it to flourish,
because it is hard enoughwithout having the resources to
do it. So the example he used ispiupiu, is a set of piupiu, and
whatnot, I have that in my assetreplacement budget. So I'm about
to order another set that'sgoing to cost us in the vicinity
(13:52):
of $40, 000 to do that. But ifwe think that we're going to
invest in the science equipmentthat we need in the science lab
and the PE equipment that weneed in the gym, then why would
we not invest in it? Why wouldit be the only place where we
are asking parents and whānauto fundraise for piupiu and pare
(14:13):
and whatnot, when it absolutelysymbolic of what we are trying
to represent for the kids in ourschools. So, you I do that there
too.
I budget kai in our rumaki area,because it's an integral part of
the lifestyle. I ensure thatthey are able to have and get
(14:37):
the kai resources that they needto with a budget that allows
them to do it. When we design,redesigned the school, we
redesigned their kitchen toresemble a marae kitchen on a
smaller scale. So that you arenot asking them to fit in with a
normal food tech building that'snot designed for the kind of
(15:00):
learning that they will need todo around food technology in kai.
So, you know, when you're doingthat redesign, you make sure
that that's your budget forthings like... So, examples like
that. You don't have to try andfit what is existing. You make
it fit the philosophy and thekaupapa of the learning
environment.
(15:21):
And in terms of like paying the salaries, can you
do... do you have to use youroperations grant, or can you use
bank staffing to pay that?
Nori (15:29):
If they're on a LAT, then you can use staffing entitlement
to do that, because a limitedauthority to teach means that
you have formal recognition fromthe New Zealand teaching council
to be teaching in a school,whether that has caveats on it
for specific subjects, orwhether it's a generalist or
(15:50):
whether it's a casual relieverin the school, they have the LAT,
so therefore you are able to usestaffing entitlement. but you
know, they could come out of opsgrants as well. And I've done
both. I've done both
Mārama (16:04):
So, who should a beginning principal turn if
they're trying to figure outthat kind of budgeting balance?
How can, who I can afford andhow do I support this person?
The first thing they need to be on is on a good
beginning induction program andthere are good induction
(16:25):
programs and for Māoriprincipals principals who are
going to be immersion or kurathen they should go to one that
a high facilitation by aexperienced Māori principal,
because these are usually run byex-principals those induction
programs and they shouldactively seek those out. In
(16:46):
addition they should activelylook at the kura around them
schools around them or ask aboutwho knows an experienced Māori
principal, or a good principalthat has predominantly Māori
students that visibly showsexpression of tikanga and te reo
in their school. It's not hard,just pick up the phone and ring
(17:08):
somebody and ask them, you know,if they don't know they're going
to put you on to somebody. And Ireally do encourage them to do
that because it will save a lotof red tape it will save a lot
of them trawling websites to tryto find the right information if
they're just ring somebodythey're going to tell them and
then they're going to say golook in this part of the website
(17:30):
on the site or something likethat.
You know, that's a perfect kind of opportunity for,
Robin, to jump in and save theday
Contact your regional advisor and as you know Mārama
because I think you held theposition of a leadership advisor
for
Tukuaki Māori in mainstream schools
Yeah so that's the kind of people that you're looking
(17:53):
for when you're a beginnerprincipal. One of the other
things I'd say is, and I knowit's harder to do, and easier
for me to say, is tumuaki ofsmall schools going in to fill
the gap of not having a teacherin the classroom and whatnot.
There are times where that willprobably have to happen, but I
(18:16):
would suggest that they try todevelop strategies that they
don't do that all the time,because you still have to be
able to be up a level where youcan see what's actually
happening, instead of alwaysbeing in their filling the
Because there will be issuesthat come out, you will be
looking for other solutionsabout how you can do that,
because if you carry on doingthat you're going to get as
(18:38):
Robin said, high burnout, you'regoing to say, "oh, stuff this,
this is too hard, too much," andto look for those creative ways
of how you bring in parents andwhānau to support
programs, which is gettingharder and harder I would say
too, because they have to work,families have to work, economic
(18:59):
times are tough, and so they'regoing to have to work and
whatnot. But there are stillways to get people to come and
support part of the day in yourclassrooms and what not. I think
most kura and well I certainlyknow area schools with immersion,
they get an allocation from theMinistry for expertise. You know,
(19:20):
there's the opportunity to turnthat into paying for wānanga,
for experts to come in and takewānanga, you know, over a
couple of days, or whatever,things like that, they've got
lots of opportunities to becreative with that kind of
resource.
Yeah, Robin, if you're advising a beginning principal,
are there any kind of safety orHR kind of things they need to
(19:43):
look out for when employing, saysomeone who's not a registered
teacher?
You know, bottom line, if you can't get somebody who is
fully registered as a teacher,and you're having to use a LAT,
the good thing about a LAT isthat they've been through a
Teacher's Council process andthey're approved to teach, so
(20:03):
you know, the health and safetyissues are covered off, but
using external people to come towork with the students, then
most of us, our health andsafety policy will require us to
have done a police check withthem. So, you know, you want to
make sure that people areworking with our tamariki, our
(20:25):
mokopuna, that our tamariki andmokopuna are going to be safe.
Um, so, so there is you know, tobe aware of.
Ngā mihi ki a kōrua. Robin and Nori are staying with
us for the next episode, whenwe'll talk about some of the
creative ways the shortage of tereo Māori-speaking kaiako have
been dealt with in the past,including using fluent freezing
(20:47):
workers as teachers. Mā te wā.
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