June 16, 2025 • 20 mins
This episode continues discussing the challenges of recruiting te reo speaking kaiako, and the ways those challenges have been dealt with in the past, including hiring fluent freezing workers as LATs, along with ways to ensure te reo thrives in your kura.
Mārama’s guests are:
- Robin Fabish, former tumuaki and current Leadership Advisor for the Ministry of Education
- Nori Parata, tumuaki of Kahukuranui and Tolaga Bay Area school
This podcast was produced for the Ministry of Education as part of Te Ara Tīmatanga mō ngā Tumuaki - The Beginning Pathway for Principals.
You can learn more by accessing Te Ara Tīmatanga mō ngā Tumuaki - The Beginning Pathway for Principals e-learning modules on the Education LMS: https://training.education.govt.nz
Show notes
Episode themes:
- The employment of fluent te reo speakers from all walks of life to teach in schools under the Te Akatura programme, was probably one of the first and earliest recognition of the value of having native te reo speakers being trained to be teachers.
- The importance of training, mentoring and support for these teachers.
- The importance of learning te reo yourself, and of helping your kaiako learn to ensure the language thrives in your kura, and shows your Māori community you are genuinely committed
- Ways to ensure your reo speaking kaiako don’t feel lonely, and that other teachers in your kura who speak another language feel they have a community too.
- Our guests advice on wats to ensure te reo is strong in our schools.
Additional information
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mārama (00:07):
Kia ora and welcome to The Principals, a podcast series
for new tumuaki in Aotearoa, NewZealand. My name is Mārama
Stewart and back with me areNori Parata, tumuaki of
Kahukuranui and Tolaga Bay Areaschool and leadership advisor
and former tumuaki Robin Fabish.So I'm always quite nosy and I
(00:28):
about what happened in the pastand things that have gone on.
And I've spoken to you before,Robin. And you talked me or
explained a little bit aboutwent on, with the te reo
revitalization strategies of the80s and the 90s, did you want to
because I don't think manypeople know that we've used LATs,
well, the equivalent of LATsbefore in the past.
Robin (00:51):
Nori might have some more detail than I do, but my
understanding is like when,example, the freezing works
closed down and there werefluent speakers off to real
Maori, some of them ended upgoing into the was, which was
great in terms of their reoability, but I'm not sure
whether they got the, uh,training and support that a lot
(01:11):
of them required, to do a greatjob, and you could understand.
And it's probably something thatwe also face, um, when we're
looking at having tradespeoplecome in to be technology
teachers in our school oroutsiders come in and be sports
coaches, if they don't fullyunderstand and have that, uh,
background and, and goodtraining about pedagogy, you
(01:34):
might end up with peopleswearing at kids because that's
what they're used to in theirworkplace. And I'm not saying
that we had freezing workers whowould come in and swear at kids
in the te reo class, but thereis that risk if the training is
not robust enough and if schoolsdon't give enough support and
make sure that they'redeveloping the quality of people
(01:56):
who come in in those kinds ofroles, there is a risk you know,
kids get turned off the kaupapa,I don't want to do te reo they
don't enjoy the teacher and theway the teachers are teaching.
So, Nori you might have a bitmore background about that.
Nori (02:12):
Yeah, do, actually. So the program that you're talking
about, Mārama was calledTe Atākura and it was in the late
80s and well, it might have beenthe mid 80s and it went through
to the 90s. And it was a verysuccessful program. It was
coinciding with theproliferation of kohanga reo and
(02:36):
then obviously the movement fromthe kohanga reo graduates into
schools and then on to highschools but also at the time
there was a lot of turbulencearound the teaching or non
teaching of te reo in schools,and part of the issue was there
were schools or some schoolsthat were willing but they
(02:56):
didn't have the qualified peopleas Robin was saying to be able
to teach te reo, and so it wasprobably one of the first and
earliest recognition of
the value of having nativespeakers with being trained to
be teachers and so they did comefrom all walks of life. Usually
(03:19):
they didn't have a tertiaryqualification, some of them as
Robin said came from freezingworks, some of them came from
trades, of them were working inthe hospitality industry but
what they did have was theability, what they were native
speakers of te reo,and they hadthe highest quality reo.
(03:40):
Because it was a time where youcould still be born and grow up
being a native speaker, a
truly first speaker of te reoMāori and so those were the
people that it was targeted at.These were often people that
were involved in te ao haka ofthat time and they would have
(04:02):
been involved in the movementsof language programs, Te
Ataarangi, the rākau method,all of those programs and they
were put into schools. I'm notan expert on Te-ā-Tākura but
it was probably a very expensiveprogram to run because when I
(04:22):
came in to first be a principal,I had a Te-ā-Tākura teacher on
my staff and the staffingentitlement that I got for
having her on our staff was shewas counted as 1.4 and you as
principals will realise thatthat's a huge staffing
entitlement for it. And thatpoint four was to recognise the
(04:44):
training program that they hadcome through. Now there were,
and I also was at Massey at thetime doing my degree when there
was a cohort of theseTe-ā-Tākura teachers doing
their one year diploma, you know,pressure cooker, it was called a
pressure cooker in those days atMassey University and a number
(05:06):
of them were from theTairāwhiti which is why I spend
a lot of time with you know youcould really feel in that group
of people a very deepunderstanding of te reo me ōna
tikanga and the quality thatthey could
offer. And most of them weremature people. In fact, I can't
(05:29):
think of anybody who was youngat that time, they were all you
from my knowledge most of themwere able to manage the
behaviour in the classrooms, youmay have got the odd that might
not but, from my understanding,they did. And they were deeply
respected in the communities towhich they came to teach. Which
(05:51):
meant that they had reach intothose communities, families luna
came and already had thatrelationship that nowadays we
are in absolutely encouragingteachers to make is that
relationship with the parents.These are people who came with
those connections, partly drivenby cultural imperatives like
(06:12):
whakapapa. You know, they hadthe whanaungatanga basis with
them and they were widelyrespected in Māori society or
in their iwi society and whatnot, not necessarily in some of
the schools they went intobecause all those
characteristics that Robin wasdescribing that need to be there
(06:35):
to provide the environment forsuccessful teaching of te reo
wasn't necessarily there, theywere still in the worst prefab
in the school at the back. Allof those things that went on and
what not, yet despite that theywere still able to make an
impact on students and you willfind students today my age that
(06:57):
are grateful for that kind ofteacher. I can remember Aunty
Ngoi Pēwhairangi being atGirls' High School and her being
active in recruiting people togo on to that Te Ataakura
programme to become teachers.She probably had several drivers
(07:19):
for why she wanted that you knownot just te reo, but seeing more
faces in in schools and knowingthat often they were lumped with
the pastoral care of Māoristudents and particularly any
play-out strains. Any rorirorisor nanakia would end up with
these teachers and they did havethe skills to do to deal with
(07:42):
them and to get them back ontrack. So I see Te Ataakura as
having been extremely successfuland I think the
Ministry resourced that at thattime really well and there is
nothing that comes even close tothat now in the policies that
(08:02):
the Ministry has.
Mārama (08:04):
Two things on that, like I just had a flashback to
my woodwork teacher in form two.Yeah,he was exactly what Robin you
described but then it also mademe think about what you said,
Nori that if you want somethingto succeed, you've got to be
committed to resource that inthe right way whether it is
support, whether it's mentoringand we can't just wait for the
(08:28):
Ministry to provide the funds.You've got to make it happen.
And it can be a great thing, youknow, if you've got that, you'll
get it out, but yeah,how areyou committed and is the board
committed to putting those fundsinto to make it valuable and
worthwhile.
Nori (08:43):
And does the board this? Are they just trying to get a
tick box on their requirementsto demonstrate their commitment
to Te Tiriti o Waitangi, or arethey actively looking to have
visible expression in thelearning programs and outcomes
for students in their school?And if it's just window dressing,
(09:03):
move on to another school
Mārama (09:06):
I feel like I need to
to toot my own horn here alittle bit. I'm very proud of my
board, they're very committedand I came in and we don't have
level one or two, but they arevery committed to get to level
three. We have two fluent Māoriteachers who are teaching in the
mainstream, bu they've funded areo Māori class. We identified
(09:28):
that one of the barriers tolearning te reo when you're a
teacher is that, often it'sthree hours at night after being
in front of kids all day, andthe assessments. It's really
heavy when you're mentallydrained, so we have invested in
Wednesday afternoons, three tilfour. It's fun, it's very
(09:50):
targeted on what we can be usingstraight away in the class the
next day and for the māmās inour school, the kids can come,
so they can bring their littlekid, their school orphans with
them and we're all learningtogether and it's full of songs
and everything and we had ourfirst session on Wednesday night
and all of the teachers, Pākehateachers, they're all just
buzzing about it. So there areways eh for bringing up te reo
(10:13):
across the whole school ifyou're creative about what you
want to do with it.
Nori (10:17):
And if you're projecting it in a positive way,
you know, it's not a burden thatI have to be there from three to
four on Wednesday, it's, I wantto be there, it's exciting. I
want to be a part of it, youknow, as Māori, we all
understand when we are in somecollaborative or collective
situation,
(10:38):
and it's going really well, thewairua is there and you can feel
the ihi and the wehi of what'sgoing on, it's palpable and
that's the kind of conditionsyou want to create so that and
it's not just limited to us,pākeha can feel that as well
and once they do, it's that kindof inclusion that touches their
(10:58):
wairua, not necessarily in thesame way it touches us, but it
touches them nonetheless andthat is a motivator for them and
that's what you're describing
Mārama (11:09):
Yeah,
the
yeah, like walking into a conversation about oh this is
why we have macrons Mārama,blah blah blah. I was like, yeah.
Robin (11:17):
Sorry. I just you know in terms that wairua that Nori's
talking about that you want tohave in the school that you know
so much of it is dependent onthe actions that the tumuaki
takes that are not just forwindow dressing but for example
finding ways
to commit to and connect withtheir local Māori community I
(11:43):
think is really critical andit's you a lot of tumuaki that I
talk to and beginning tumuakithey're on their journey in
terms of that space and many ofthem are learning te reo taking
te reo classes and and I justthink that if our Māori
community knows that our tumuakiare committing themselves to and
(12:05):
their time to learning te reoand if they see them at the
marae at a tangi or if they seethem at the marae for a
fundraiser, if they're involvedin the in the community and the
Māori community they front upto the Kapa Haka they're there
at the Manu Kōrero and they'rean advocate for Māori in the
kura, then the opportunities fortumuaki to build relationships
(12:32):
with people who might want tocome and work for them and
support the kaupapa of the kuraare enhanced.
So instead of just thinking wellI put a add in the Gazette and
see what happens we've got toreally be active in promoting
that I am a tangata Tiriti or Ihave a real commitment to equity
(12:55):
in our kura and these are thethings that I'm demonstrating
and modelling in our communitythat people can see that I'm not
tick-boxing I want this place tobe a place where Māori can
succeed as Māori and achievethe dreams of their tipuna.
Nori (13:12):
That's right and one of the things I would add is if you
several positions on your staffthat you don't just employ the
one Māori teacher that you lookto employ more than that because
they bring so much value to yourschool. I'm not saying you just
employ others because they'reMāori but it can be very lonely
(13:34):
and I have seen many Māoriteachers leave schools because
they have felt the loneliness ofit. Now I give that's not just
for Māori and I'll give youthis example. Like many schools
in New Zealand I've tried reallyhard to find a home grown maths
and science teacher to no availand for the last ten years have
had to recruit them fromoverseas. I recruited a Fijian
(13:58):
Indian science teacher and but Icould see the loneliness in her.
I could see the loneliness ofnot having anybody that sort of
had an understanding of her andher cultural background and all
the rest of it. So when Iadvertised for the maths teacher
I made it a deliberate strategythat if there wasn't any home
(14:19):
grown one that I would getanother Fijian Indian teacher so
that we could form a communityfor her to support her personal
well-being in our school as wellas being a part of our
our wider staff and communityand because I was worried that I
would lose her as well. Not onlydid I feel aroha for her because
(14:42):
I could see the loneliness but Ialso was worried that I was
going to lose yet anotherscience teacher, and this way by
creating a small community forher, I can see she's much
happier. They talk in their reoin the staff room ad nauseam I
try to pick up on any words Ihave to say I haven't been able
to but none of us are worriedabout them speaking their
(15:04):
language in the staff room, infact we encourage it and we do
that for the Māori staff aswell and you know be able to
speak in the language that youwant to speak and freely
interact in the way you want toso I'd give that as a little bit
of advice as well.
Mārama (15:20):
that's really beautiful and quite a complex, it shows
how complex the whole workforceand recruitment thing as a
principal is, isn't it? It's notjust putting an ad and hiring
someone. So just to conclude, ifyou both had a magic wand, What
three elements would you need toensure that our reo was strong
and thriving in our schools.
Robin (15:42):
Well, I have written down some ideas and I think the
first one is something thatwe've already talked about,
which is that you've got to havethe board and the leadership
team committed and valuing tereo in the kura. So that's the
first thing. Second thing isunderstand that giving affect to
Te Tiriti o Waitangi and Māorisucceeding as Māori in the
(16:05):
school means that the reo isthriving. So we have to
prioritize. It's not enough justto have it as an option. We've
got to have kids being able tobe immersed in it so that they
can complete schooling withfluency. And then the third
thing we've already talked aboutis resourcing it appropriately.
Making sure we've got teachers,we've got learning assistants,
(16:27):
books, teaching resources, thesePLD those kinds of things. So I
reckon that's the magic formula
Mārama (16:34):
Ka pai. Nori?
I would agree with the things that Robin has said.
Nori (16:39):
I think that the quality and quantity of te reo the unless we
have great examples the bestMāori that we can provide and
the best a iwi reo that we canprovide to help retain that iwi
identity. I think that's crucial.I know that we struggle at times
(17:02):
because we have teachers may notnecessarily have the reo to the
extent that we would like to butthat was what was on offer at
the time and there arecompromises in that and if we
didn't have to have thosecompromises I would,that would
be one of my wishes. And while Ihave always tried to get,
(17:23):
kaiako a iwi, whakapapa to ouriwi, about three years ago I
couldn't do that any longer andI
employed a teacher from Tūhoewho was a native speaker and,
you know, Tūhoe have beautifulreo, beautiful speakers and what
(17:44):
I like about the teacher that Ihave here who is leading our
immersion unit is she's a nativespeaker, she's younger but she's
a native speaker because Tūhoestill has native speakers from
from that generation and shedoes not try to impose Tūhoe
(18:04):
reo and tikanga on our learningenvironment. She is so confident
in her own identity that sheunderstands the need to be able
to promote and nurture theidentity of these these children
in our learning environment andthat has been a blessing because
they're few and far between tobe able to get somebody with
(18:26):
that
tohungatanga i roto i te reo andalso tikanga, so that to me is,
(18:46):
and we can only aspire to that,but like you Mārama, that is an
ongoing journey to help supportteachers to increase and improve
the quality of their reo and Oneof the other things that I would
I am big on is supporting theopportunities for them to be
able to do that and notnecessarily always in their own
time and add on but finding
opportunities when we can find areliever to be able to let them
go during work hours to dosomething that is actually going
(19:09):
to not only benefit themindividually, they're going to
benefit our learning environment,it going to benefit the
community, it's going to benefitthe hapū and the iwi. and the
other wish I had was that of allparents and whānau were just as
committed to their childrenhaving quality te reo me ōna
(19:31):
tikanga and that they werenurturing that as much as
possible in their homeenvironments and in the
community environments andperhaps not relying on the
school so much to be providingwhat once upon a time was only
provided in their homes andcommunities.
Mārama (19:50):
Well, thank you so much, kōrua. No real solutions,
perhaps, but some really goodand powerful things for us to
consider and to think over on anaspiration for our future to be
full our reo. I have so manymore native speakers coming up
and growing our own, I guess.Thank you so much.
Nori (20:09):
good to see you guys.
Mārama (20:10):
Oh, thank you. I'm a
Robin (20:12):
Ka pai, thank you
Mārama (20:12):
beautiful
you so much korūa, it's been so lovely speaking to
you both. In the next episode,we're going to talk about what
it's like to be authenticallyMāori as a tumuaki. Mā te wā.
Kia ora and welcome to The Principals, a podcast series
for new tumuaki in Aotearoa, NewZealand. My name is Mārama
Stewart and back with me areNori Parata, tumuaki of
Kahukuranui and Tolaga Bay Areaschool and leadership advisor
and former tumuaki Robin Fabish.So I'm always quite nosy and I
(00:28):
about what happened in the pastand things that have gone on.
And I've spoken to you before,Robin. And you talked me or
explained a little bit aboutwent on, with the te reo
revitalization strategies of the80s and the 90s, did you want to
because I don't think manypeople know that we've used LATs,
well, the equivalent of LATsbefore in the past.
Robin (00:51):
Nori might have some more detail than I do, but my
understanding is like when,example, the freezing works
closed down and there werefluent speakers off to real
Maori, some of them ended upgoing into the was, which was
great in terms of their reoability, but I'm not sure
whether they got the, uh,training and support that a lot
(01:11):
of them required, to do a greatjob, and you could understand.
And it's probably something thatwe also face, um, when we're
looking at having tradespeoplecome in to be technology
teachers in our school oroutsiders come in and be sports
coaches, if they don't fullyunderstand and have that, uh,
background and, and goodtraining about pedagogy, you
(01:34):
might end up with peopleswearing at kids because that's
what they're used to in theirworkplace. And I'm not saying
that we had freezing workers whowould come in and swear at kids
in the te reo class, but thereis that risk if the training is
not robust enough and if schoolsdon't give enough support and
make sure that they'redeveloping the quality of people
(01:56):
who come in in those kinds ofroles, there is a risk you know,
kids get turned off the kaupapa,I don't want to do te reo they
don't enjoy the teacher and theway the teachers are teaching.
So, Nori you might have a bitmore background about that.
Nori (02:12):
Yeah, do, actually. So the program that you're talking
about, Mārama was calledTe Atākura and it was in the late
80s and well, it might have beenthe mid 80s and it went through
to the 90s. And it was a verysuccessful program. It was
coinciding with theproliferation of kohanga reo and
(02:36):
then obviously the movement fromthe kohanga reo graduates into
schools and then on to highschools but also at the time
there was a lot of turbulencearound the teaching or non
teaching of te reo in schools,and part of the issue was there
were schools or some schoolsthat were willing but they
(02:56):
didn't have the qualified peopleas Robin was saying to be able
to teach te reo, and so it wasprobably one of the first and
earliest recognition of
the value of having nativespeakers with being trained to
be teachers and so they did comefrom all walks of life. Usually
(03:19):
they didn't have a tertiaryqualification, some of them as
Robin said came from freezingworks, some of them came from
trades, of them were working inthe hospitality industry but
what they did have was theability, what they were native
speakers of te reo,and they hadthe highest quality reo.
(03:40):
Because it was a time where youcould still be born and grow up
being a native speaker, a
truly first speaker of te reoMāori and so those were the
people that it was targeted at.These were often people that
were involved in te ao haka ofthat time and they would have
(04:02):
been involved in the movementsof language programs, Te
Ataarangi, the rākau method,all of those programs and they
were put into schools. I'm notan expert on Te-ā-Tākura but
it was probably a very expensiveprogram to run because when I
(04:22):
came in to first be a principal,I had a Te-ā-Tākura teacher on
my staff and the staffingentitlement that I got for
having her on our staff was shewas counted as 1.4 and you as
principals will realise thatthat's a huge staffing
entitlement for it. And thatpoint four was to recognise the
(04:44):
training program that they hadcome through. Now there were,
and I also was at Massey at thetime doing my degree when there
was a cohort of theseTe-ā-Tākura teachers doing
their one year diploma, you know,pressure cooker, it was called a
pressure cooker in those days atMassey University and a number
(05:06):
of them were from theTairāwhiti which is why I spend
a lot of time with you know youcould really feel in that group
of people a very deepunderstanding of te reo me ōna
tikanga and the quality thatthey could
offer. And most of them weremature people. In fact, I can't
(05:29):
think of anybody who was youngat that time, they were all you
from my knowledge most of themwere able to manage the
behaviour in the classrooms, youmay have got the odd that might
not but, from my understanding,they did. And they were deeply
respected in the communities towhich they came to teach. Which
(05:51):
meant that they had reach intothose communities, families luna
came and already had thatrelationship that nowadays we
are in absolutely encouragingteachers to make is that
relationship with the parents.These are people who came with
those connections, partly drivenby cultural imperatives like
(06:12):
whakapapa. You know, they hadthe whanaungatanga basis with
them and they were widelyrespected in Māori society or
in their iwi society and whatnot, not necessarily in some of
the schools they went intobecause all those
characteristics that Robin wasdescribing that need to be there
(06:35):
to provide the environment forsuccessful teaching of te reo
wasn't necessarily there, theywere still in the worst prefab
in the school at the back. Allof those things that went on and
what not, yet despite that theywere still able to make an
impact on students and you willfind students today my age that
(06:57):
are grateful for that kind ofteacher. I can remember Aunty
Ngoi Pēwhairangi being atGirls' High School and her being
active in recruiting people togo on to that Te Ataakura
programme to become teachers.She probably had several drivers
(07:19):
for why she wanted that you knownot just te reo, but seeing more
faces in in schools and knowingthat often they were lumped with
the pastoral care of Māoristudents and particularly any
play-out strains. Any rorirorisor nanakia would end up with
these teachers and they did havethe skills to do to deal with
(07:42):
them and to get them back ontrack. So I see Te Ataakura as
having been extremely successfuland I think the
Ministry resourced that at thattime really well and there is
nothing that comes even close tothat now in the policies that
(08:02):
the Ministry has.
Mārama (08:04):
Two things on that, like I just had a flashback to
my woodwork teacher in form two.Yeah,he was exactly what Robin you
described but then it also mademe think about what you said,
Nori that if you want somethingto succeed, you've got to be
committed to resource that inthe right way whether it is
support, whether it's mentoringand we can't just wait for the
(08:28):
Ministry to provide the funds.You've got to make it happen.
And it can be a great thing, youknow, if you've got that, you'll
get it out, but yeah,how areyou committed and is the board
committed to putting those fundsinto to make it valuable and
worthwhile.
Nori (08:43):
And does the board this? Are they just trying to get a
tick box on their requirementsto demonstrate their commitment
to Te Tiriti o Waitangi, or arethey actively looking to have
visible expression in thelearning programs and outcomes
for students in their school?And if it's just window dressing,
(09:03):
move on to another school
Mārama (09:06):
I feel like I need to
to toot my own horn here alittle bit. I'm very proud of my
board, they're very committedand I came in and we don't have
level one or two, but they arevery committed to get to level
three. We have two fluent Māoriteachers who are teaching in the
mainstream, bu they've funded areo Māori class. We identified
(09:28):
that one of the barriers tolearning te reo when you're a
teacher is that, often it'sthree hours at night after being
in front of kids all day, andthe assessments. It's really
heavy when you're mentallydrained, so we have invested in
Wednesday afternoons, three tilfour. It's fun, it's very
(09:50):
targeted on what we can be usingstraight away in the class the
next day and for the māmās inour school, the kids can come,
so they can bring their littlekid, their school orphans with
them and we're all learningtogether and it's full of songs
and everything and we had ourfirst session on Wednesday night
and all of the teachers, Pākehateachers, they're all just
buzzing about it. So there areways eh for bringing up te reo
(10:13):
across the whole school ifyou're creative about what you
want to do with it.
Nori (10:17):
And if you're projecting it in a positive way,
you know, it's not a burden thatI have to be there from three to
four on Wednesday, it's, I wantto be there, it's exciting. I
want to be a part of it, youknow, as Māori, we all
understand when we are in somecollaborative or collective
situation,
(10:38):
and it's going really well, thewairua is there and you can feel
the ihi and the wehi of what'sgoing on, it's palpable and
that's the kind of conditionsyou want to create so that and
it's not just limited to us,pākeha can feel that as well
and once they do, it's that kindof inclusion that touches their
(10:58):
wairua, not necessarily in thesame way it touches us, but it
touches them nonetheless andthat is a motivator for them and
that's what you're describing
Mārama (11:09):
Yeah,
the
yeah, like walking into a conversation about oh this is
why we have macrons Mārama,blah blah blah. I was like, yeah.
Robin (11:17):
Sorry. I just you know in terms that wairua that Nori's
talking about that you want tohave in the school that you know
so much of it is dependent onthe actions that the tumuaki
takes that are not just forwindow dressing but for example
finding ways
to commit to and connect withtheir local Māori community I
(11:43):
think is really critical andit's you a lot of tumuaki that I
talk to and beginning tumuakithey're on their journey in
terms of that space and many ofthem are learning te reo taking
te reo classes and and I justthink that if our Māori
community knows that our tumuakiare committing themselves to and
(12:05):
their time to learning te reoand if they see them at the
marae at a tangi or if they seethem at the marae for a
fundraiser, if they're involvedin the in the community and the
Māori community they front upto the Kapa Haka they're there
at the Manu Kōrero and they'rean advocate for Māori in the
kura, then the opportunities fortumuaki to build relationships
(12:32):
with people who might want tocome and work for them and
support the kaupapa of the kuraare enhanced.
So instead of just thinking wellI put a add in the Gazette and
see what happens we've got toreally be active in promoting
that I am a tangata Tiriti or Ihave a real commitment to equity
(12:55):
in our kura and these are thethings that I'm demonstrating
and modelling in our communitythat people can see that I'm not
tick-boxing I want this place tobe a place where Māori can
succeed as Māori and achievethe dreams of their tipuna.
Nori (13:12):
That's right and one of the things I would add is if you
several positions on your staffthat you don't just employ the
one Māori teacher that you lookto employ more than that because
they bring so much value to yourschool. I'm not saying you just
employ others because they'reMāori but it can be very lonely
(13:34):
and I have seen many Māoriteachers leave schools because
they have felt the loneliness ofit. Now I give that's not just
for Māori and I'll give youthis example. Like many schools
in New Zealand I've tried reallyhard to find a home grown maths
and science teacher to no availand for the last ten years have
had to recruit them fromoverseas. I recruited a Fijian
(13:58):
Indian science teacher and but Icould see the loneliness in her.
I could see the loneliness ofnot having anybody that sort of
had an understanding of her andher cultural background and all
the rest of it. So when Iadvertised for the maths teacher
I made it a deliberate strategythat if there wasn't any home
(14:19):
grown one that I would getanother Fijian Indian teacher so
that we could form a communityfor her to support her personal
well-being in our school as wellas being a part of our
our wider staff and communityand because I was worried that I
would lose her as well. Not onlydid I feel aroha for her because
(14:42):
I could see the loneliness but Ialso was worried that I was
going to lose yet anotherscience teacher, and this way by
creating a small community forher, I can see she's much
happier. They talk in their reoin the staff room ad nauseam I
try to pick up on any words Ihave to say I haven't been able
to but none of us are worriedabout them speaking their
(15:04):
language in the staff room, infact we encourage it and we do
that for the Māori staff aswell and you know be able to
speak in the language that youwant to speak and freely
interact in the way you want toso I'd give that as a little bit
of advice as well.
Mārama (15:20):
that's really beautiful and quite a complex, it shows
how complex the whole workforceand recruitment thing as a
principal is, isn't it? It's notjust putting an ad and hiring
someone. So just to conclude, ifyou both had a magic wand, What
three elements would you need toensure that our reo was strong
and thriving in our schools.
Robin (15:42):
Well, I have written down some ideas and I think the
first one is something thatwe've already talked about,
which is that you've got to havethe board and the leadership
team committed and valuing tereo in the kura. So that's the
first thing. Second thing isunderstand that giving affect to
Te Tiriti o Waitangi and Māorisucceeding as Māori in the
(16:05):
school means that the reo isthriving. So we have to
prioritize. It's not enough justto have it as an option. We've
got to have kids being able tobe immersed in it so that they
can complete schooling withfluency. And then the third
thing we've already talked aboutis resourcing it appropriately.
Making sure we've got teachers,we've got learning assistants,
(16:27):
books, teaching resources, thesePLD those kinds of things. So I
reckon that's the magic formula
Mārama (16:34):
Ka pai. Nori?
I would agree with the things that Robin has said.
Nori (16:39):
I think that the quality and quantity of te reo the unless we
have great examples the bestMāori that we can provide and
the best a iwi reo that we canprovide to help retain that iwi
identity. I think that's crucial.I know that we struggle at times
(17:02):
because we have teachers may notnecessarily have the reo to the
extent that we would like to butthat was what was on offer at
the time and there arecompromises in that and if we
didn't have to have thosecompromises I would,that would
be one of my wishes. And while Ihave always tried to get,
(17:23):
kaiako a iwi, whakapapa to ouriwi, about three years ago I
couldn't do that any longer andI
employed a teacher from Tūhoewho was a native speaker and,
you know, Tūhoe have beautifulreo, beautiful speakers and what
(17:44):
I like about the teacher that Ihave here who is leading our
immersion unit is she's a nativespeaker, she's younger but she's
a native speaker because Tūhoestill has native speakers from
from that generation and shedoes not try to impose Tūhoe
(18:04):
reo and tikanga on our learningenvironment. She is so confident
in her own identity that sheunderstands the need to be able
to promote and nurture theidentity of these these children
in our learning environment andthat has been a blessing because
they're few and far between tobe able to get somebody with
(18:26):
that
tohungatanga i roto i te reo andalso tikanga, so that to me is,
(18:46):
and we can only aspire to that,but like you Mārama, that is an
ongoing journey to help supportteachers to increase and improve
the quality of their reo and Oneof the other things that I would
I am big on is supporting theopportunities for them to be
able to do that and notnecessarily always in their own
time and add on but finding
opportunities when we can find areliever to be able to let them
go during work hours to dosomething that is actually going
(19:09):
to not only benefit themindividually, they're going to
benefit our learning environment,it going to benefit the
community, it's going to benefitthe hapū and the iwi. and the
other wish I had was that of allparents and whānau were just as
committed to their childrenhaving quality te reo me ōna
(19:31):
tikanga and that they werenurturing that as much as
possible in their homeenvironments and in the
community environments andperhaps not relying on the
school so much to be providingwhat once upon a time was only
provided in their homes andcommunities.
Mārama (19:50):
Well, thank you so much, kōrua. No real solutions,
perhaps, but some really goodand powerful things for us to
consider and to think over on anaspiration for our future to be
full our reo. I have so manymore native speakers coming up
and growing our own, I guess.Thank you so much.
Nori (20:09):
good to see you guys.
Mārama (20:10):
Oh, thank you. I'm a
Robin (20:12):
Ka pai, thank you
Mārama (20:12):
beautiful
you so much korūa, it's been so lovely speaking to
you both. In the next episode,we're going to talk about what
it's like to be authenticallyMāori as a tumuaki. Mā te wā.
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