June 23, 2025 • 20 mins
Kō ngā tahu ā ō tapuwai inanahi, hei tauira mō āpōpō
Leading an organisation as tumuaki Māori has its own unique challenges and opportunities. We often use the whakatauki Poipoia te Kākako kia pūawai to emphasise the importance of nurturing our tamariki,
A pressing issue right now is how we’re nurturing our aspiring and new principals, in particular our young tumuaki Māori. How do we, as experienced and leading principals, curate leadership journeys that empower new and aspiring tumuaki Māori to last the challenges of the current day?
Mārama’s guests are:
- Marissa Peters, Principal of Tarawera High School in Kawerau Eastern Bay of Plenty
- Mikaere October, Principal of Trident High School, Whakatāne
- Leanne Otene, President of New Zealand Principals’ Federation and Principal of 30 years of service this year.
This podcast was produced for the Ministry of Education as part of Te Ara Tīmatanga mō ngā Tumuaki - The Beginning Pathway for Principals.
You can learn more by accessing Te Ara Tīmatanga mō ngā Tumuaki - The Beginning Pathway for Principals e-learning modules on the Education LMS: https://training.education.govt.nz
Episode themes:
- What it was like to be tumuaki Māori in the 1990s and how it has changed
- Learning that walking in both the pākeha and Maōri worlds is a strength, not a weakness
- The importance of having good role models
- The importance of knowing who you are and being authentic in that, of finding your voice and standing up for yourself and for your kura and tamariki
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mārama (00:07):
Kia ora and welcome to The Principals, a podcast series
for new tumuaki in Aotearoa NewZealand. My name is Mārama
Stewart. Being a tumuaki is atough but rewarding job, and
being tumuaki Māori has its ownchallenges. In this episode, I'm
speaking with three amazingtumuaki Māori, one who's been a
principal for 30 years and twonearer the beginning of their
(00:31):
journeys as principals, allabout their experiences in the
role. Just to start our piece,would you like to introduce
yourselves. Marissa, would wouldyou like to start with you
Marissa (00:41):
Morena rā kia tātou. Ko Marissa Peters tokū īngoa.
He uri whakatipu ahau nō rotomai o Ngā Puhi nui tonu. ko
Pūtahi te maunga, ko Mataatuate waka, ko Māpere te awa, ko
Kohepata te marae.
heoi anō a kei Kawerau au enoho ana i tipu ake ahau ki roto
(01:02):
o Tāmaki Makaurau, I raro iho ingā rekereke o ngā kuia me
ngā kaumātua o Hoani Waititimarae, ki reirā ako ai, kuraina
ai, a ngā whai anō na whai ingā āhuatanga whakaako
tamariki.
However, I've ended up coming toKawerau. I've been in Kawerau
(01:23):
for the last 10 years. And thisis my second year as a tumuaki
principal in a mainstream kura.Kia ora rā.
Mārama (01:33):
Mikaere
Mikaere (01:34):
Kia ora koutou, ko Ōtawa tōku maunga, ko Raparapa
a hoi tōku awa, ko Hei tōkumarae, ko Te Arawa tōku waka,
ko Waitaha Hei tōku iwi, koMikaere October tōku ingoa, ko
au te tumuaki i te kura tūrua oTaoroa, so Principal at Trident
High School. I feel like I'vebounced around a little bit. So
(01:56):
I whakapapa to Te Puke in theBay, grew up in Christchurch,
attended Burnside High School. Iknow people always ask which
high school you went to ifyou're from Christchurch. But
did all my in the North Island,so Mount Maunganui College as a
first year teacher up to a DP.My first principal job was at
Waiheke High School for twoyears before I moved to
(02:19):
Whakatāne to take a job atTrident High School.
Mārama (02:22):
And kia ora Leanne
Leanne (02:23):
Kia ora Ko Orowhana tōku maunga, ko Rangahiki tōku
awa, ko Ohwhata tōku
moana, ko Mamari tōku waka, koTe Rārawa tōku iwi, ko Manukau
tōku marae, ko Whakamaharatangatōku whare tupuna, ko Ngāti
Wairu Pirao, ko Ngāti Kurioquhapu, Te Uriohapu Kukuruia, Ko
(02:47):
Ahau te Tūmuāki o Manaia View,ko ahau te Manukura o ngā
Tūmuāki o Aotearoa. So yeah, Ihail from the far north too,
born but not bred unfortunately,so born in Kaitaia but bred in
Tāumaranui, so I spent all mychildhood down there and then
(03:10):
got sent off, shipped off toboarding school and as I said
back in the day, you know, Ihold my parents responsible for
the fact that they didn't sentme to St. Joes, they sent me to
Sacred Heart and yeah, my,pretty much all of my education
was therefore in Hamilton. Iwent to Waikato and then started
(03:32):
my first principal's job. Mynanny said to me, "Come home
Baba, you're too, you need toget back to your iwi and hapū.
So, that's the reason I went toNgataki 30 years ago, almost to
the day and today I am livingdown here in Wellington, Monday
to Friday and go home in theweekends to Whangarei to meet up
(03:55):
with the hubby, works well forboth of us. Kia ora.
Mārama (03:59):
Thank you so much. So um, you have been a tumuaki for
was it like back then? I canimagine there weren't very many
Māori principals at that time,and you as a young Māori female
principal as well, wahine Māori -what was it like?
Leanne (04:15):
Yeah, 30 years. I mean back then it was three terms, I
came into a kura May 1995, backthen Ngataki was actually back
in the old system, a decile 4,so predominantly
pākeha, in terms of the boardof trustees pākeha as well.
There was only a handful ofMāori principals in Northland,
(04:38):
and it was extremely isolatingand I felt incredibly
vulnerable. I had no blueprintto follow, no visible role
models at all. Those principalswho were Māori were fresh like
me, we were all in beginningstages. I mean, beginning
principals back then were KelvinDavis and Peter Witana. You know,
(04:58):
names we all know today but theywere beginning stages of their
career so there was no,definitely no sense, that my
identity as a Maōri woman wasan asset in
principalship. The system was
Eurocentric, unapologetically so,my board made sure I realised
that. My reo, my tikanga, mymatauranga Māori, only were
(05:22):
they unrecognised, they werequietly discouraged. I became
quite fluent at reading the room,you know, learning to soften my
language which was, you know,that's what we did back then and
reshaped my thinking to fit intothe spaces that really weren't
built for me. I remember goingto the first principals meeting
and just being overwhelmed bythe number of men for starters,
(05:45):
and the fact that they were allolder, a lot older and they were
all non Māori. And I'm, exceptfor Pete and Kelvin so of course
I just mean straight for them.You know that year 1995, you
know, it coincided with thebeginning of Te Akatea, and so
being at the first Te Akateaconference was a turning point
(06:06):
for me. It gave me a rōpū tolean into, and a sense that I
wasn't completely alone. Still,navigating the expectations of
mainstream education and, youknow, that deep responsibility I
had to my iwi and hapū waspretty heavy back then. So, you
know, you know, early in mycareer that balancing act felt
(06:30):
like a real burden. I wasconstantly switching codes,
adjusting myself, careful not tocome across as too Māori in
pākeha spaces and yet neverMāori enough in others because
of my upbringing, you know, thattook a toll, that took a toll on
my confidence, on my sense ofbelonging, on my wairua, you
(06:50):
know, but over time I'verealized that walking in both
worlds is not a weakness, it's astrength, but you can't do it
well if you're pretending andthe most important thing I've
learned is that I can't serveanyone, not my profession,
unless I lead as my authenticself and I think that's
something I recognized asauthenticity is my anchor. You
(07:14):
know, it's what's given mecourage, it's what allows me to
speak the truth in the roomsthat I, you know, that weren't
built for people like me. And Ihope it's what gives other
Māori leaders permission to dothe same so, yes, I navigate
both worlds and I have learnt todo it really well because of,
you know, how I started.
Mārama (07:33):
It was quite the adversity you faced to begin
with. T must have reallytoughened you up and given you a
little bit of motivation,perhaps, to change the landscape
you're now in NZPF leading thatorganisation. It's a huge change.
Leanne (07:50):
Well, you know, now you've got more space for
kaupapa Maōri and there's morerecognition of that in our
leadership style, so it's notperfect, but it's definitely
changed, you know, today tumuakiMāori are likely to lead as
their full selves. And, you know,it's taken years of pushing and
(08:10):
holding ground and shifting theculture
from within, from within our ownstaffroom sometimes. And, you
know, that is that is a pressureand an expectation of the system.
You know, the policies, thelanguage of bureaucracy, you
know, they come from one worldand we come from another and
(08:32):
we've got to carry that bothevery single
Mārama (08:35):
That's amazing. Marissa, now you're at the other end of
the scale as a principal you'rein your second year, does any of
what Leanne spoke about resonatewith you
Marissa (08:46):
Yeah. I think tuatahi ake e mihi ana kia koutou nga
kāi kōkiri i te kaupapa. Youknow, I think 95 was a pivotal
year for me as a teenager cominginto high school and I grew up
in a kura kaupapa wharekuracontext and we had our struggles
back then. But I'm reallygrateful for the role models
(09:09):
that I had that were in thoseleadership roles as tumuaki at
the time. It was rich, I hadpeople like Katerina Te Heikoko
Mataira, Whaea Evelyn
Tobin, that were the role modelsin i āta poipoi ā mātou, to
see wahine Māori leading theway and kaupapa that was, you
(09:34):
know, it was being challenged atthe time we faced many
challenges and to see how thatkaupapa of working as a wahine
Māori in leadership can workalongside our tāne Māori and
to find that balance.
And I'm really grateful for that.It taught me to navigate my way
(09:55):
through high school, I ended upgoing into a mainstream kura in
my later years at Auckland GirlsGrammar. I was surrounded by
wahine, I was surrounded bywahine and we had a Pākeha
tumuaki but I was in a rūmakisetting through Kahurangi ki
Maungawhau and again havingsomeone like Jenny Lee who was
(10:17):
there to manaaki i ā mātou toteach us how to be leaders and
authentically so being Māorileaders.
So I probably learnt from areally young age how to vocal as
a wahine, having to learn how tohold myself in kaupapa Māori,
(10:39):
especially when trying not to betokenistic as well in some
kaupapa when I was in amainstream setting.
But being passionate about who Iwas and to find myself and what
that meant. So I'm reallygrateful for the type of
(11:01):
leadership that was there, eventhough I know it would have been
a struggle back then, I couldimagine, for us who are coming
through now, it's really givenus the tools and the skills to
be able to be a Wahine inleadership and wahine Māori at
that.
(11:23):
And e hara i te mea e whakaitiana i ngā tāne, because I also
saw how tāne can support wahinein these roles. Absolutely.
So to be able to see that andhow you can balance each other
and support each other has beenreally crucial. I think today,
(11:44):
in our community, we have threewahine who are in tumuaki
positions and our mayor is awahine Māori. So in this
community, I probably have beenreally fortunate to feel quite
supported in the role as awahine Māori.
(12:08):
But I think yeah coming back tosome of the challenges in a
mainstream setting. For me,coming into the position, it was
being comfortable in knowing whoI was and what type of leader I
am. And if that suited our kuraand our community and our
whānau. And that was important.It was important for me when I
(12:33):
took on this position was thisis how I come, this is the full
package. Yes, I am passionateabout kaupapa Māori, te reo
Māori, kapa haka, ao Māori,tikanga Māori.
But I also believe in the korerothat, you know, I'm also Pākeha
(12:53):
too. I have an Norwegianwhakapapa that I need to
acknowledge. And kia kaua au etāmi i te taha pākeha, I taku
taha pākeha but kia haerehāngai. So finding, how do I
navigate that space too, how doI ensure that ko te manaaki au i
(13:13):
taku taha pākeha, ko te manaakiau i taku taha Māori? How do I
encourage that in a kura in aōrakei setting. I face some of
those challenges I've been givenfeedback that some feel that I
may push kaupapa on to them. Andyou know I'm for that, I'm for
(13:34):
that, if it feels that I'mpushing it, then it's the
question of why do you feelpushed. Because I'm just being
me, at the end of the day, I ambut being me, this is what I
know, this is what I've grown upthis is what I believe in, e
hara i te mea e mea ana au, mewhakapono mai koe ki wāku
mātāpono. I'm not saying thatyou have to believe in it. But
(13:56):
hey, we work in a world wherewe're constantly being
challenged. Koira taku is, yeah,I think Mikaire and I spoke
about this a couple of weeks agobecause I felt a little bit
challenged in some feedbackabout how to be authentically
yourselves. And I thought, cool,I needed to hear that. I needed
that reassurance of it's okay tobe challenged but are you being
(14:20):
authentic in who you are? AndI've been, yeah, actually, I am.
I am. Take it or leave it. Thisis how I am.
Mārama (14:27):
That's the thing that I've noticed over the last few
podcasts we've recorded, tumuakiwill talk about being secure in
who they are, being confidentand happy in who they are, which
allows them to thrive in bothworlds as you did Leanne, you
were able to be you, then codeswitch and be what you needed to
be, and then of course create aspace where we can be ourselves
(14:51):
and be seen as asset, as atumuaki Māori. Mikaere you
actually started as principal atWaiheke High School, and in my
head I think Waiheke Island, 85%Maori with all the rich, what
was that like or is myperception wrong
Mikaere (15:08):
Ae, I think now very different setting to Whakatane
is Waiheke, but I guess a verydiverse community there still as
you alluded to, largesocio-economic differences but
also just being on an islandclose to Auckland CBD, those who
actually lived there, so a lotof rich and famous there, so but
(15:29):
the school itself was quitediverse in terms of, yeah I
guess isolated island life,Ngāti Pāoa are tangata whenua
there, but there's only onemarae, Piritahi, but that's
actually Ngā Hau e Whā so noteven specific to the iwi, so
that was interesting for myself,I felt a bit of a home there as
(15:52):
a Māori coming onto the islandbecause at least it was
something that was to reclaim,but I guess thoughts are quite
well placed in of just verydifferent communities, but you
know, nga mihi ki a kōrua,Marissa and Leanne, I think this
is a generalisation here, butyou know in my opinion all
(16:13):
Māori leaders, particularlytumuaki, have to navigate both
worlds particularly in kuraŌrakei and I would argue that
others who are non Māori wouldvery much struggle to do the
same, so you know, I think aboutmy time on Waiheke and now
Trident, while there's somesimilarities, there's some huge
differences as well, but justthe ability to both world views
(16:39):
has been an advantage in thatspace.
Mārama (16:41):
So what would have been say a challenge at Waiheke that
you may find or vice versa achallenge at Trident that you
wouldn't have necessarily facedat either or school.
Mikaere (16:54):
Sure. I the common one is, you know, our education
system is inherently bias, youknow, and just in its
foundations and the way that itwas set up. And therefore, we
are always battling against that.So the ability to have that
equity lens for Māori over allthe decisions and structures
(17:16):
that you look at. And that wasno different, it was the same on
Waiheke as it is here inWhakatane at Trident High School.
But I the clear difference isthat the majority of our
students are, you know, NgātiAwa or Tuhoe, you know, we are
Ngāti Awa whenua, but we allserve the values and our rural
communities. So the kids' everyday lives, you know, a lot of
(17:41):
them very much live and breathete ao Māori outside of kura,
and I guess what myresponsibility is is to make
them feel comfortable herewithin a kura Ōrakei, a English
medium school which doesn'talways cater for that world view,
you know, speaking genericallyhere for the education I as we
(18:04):
move forward as leaders, beingMāori and unapologetically so
and being comfortable withinourselves in our decision-making
assists with those decisions
Mārama (18:14):
So it definitely that time at Waiheke perhaps being
Ngā Hau e Whā has that madeyour identity, as a leader
stronger do you think, in cominghome?
Mikaere (18:25):
I think so, absolutely. You're presented with many
opportunities too, I guess Ishowed
tuakiritanga centering yourselfas a Māori leader and certainly
when you're new to an area orwhere you're a tumuaki, you're
expected to speak in particularsettings or you know give your
(18:46):
opinion on certain matters andnot just sometimes that can be
in the media right, so Iensuring that you're honest with
yourself in your own values. Sofor me, personally, I've
mentioned I grew up inChristchurch and with my pākeha
mum and you know, want toacknowledge what Marissa said
because I'm pākeha as well, andthe honouring both sides where
(19:08):
they clash can be a reallyinteresting space but for me I
didn't learn te reo until I wasat university or in my later
years of school and the veryreason I got into education
personally was that myexperience as a young tāne
Māori in mainstream educationwas really poor in terms of
stereotyping, pigeonholing, youknow, the classic. And showing
(19:34):
my age here, Marissa looks a lotyounger than I do but you know,
even in the early 2000s and late90s being told that you
shouldn't study te reo becauseit's not going to get you
anywhere in your education. Sothat's not something that was
reserved for the 80s, 70s orbefore, you know, those things
were happening well into the newmillennium. So, you know, the
(19:59):
reason why I mentioned I'vetaken jobs in leadership is so
that I can be the, you know, theteacher, the deputy principal,
the principal that perhaps Ididn't have as a young tāne and,
you know,I see those kids thatwere like me in those So, yeah.
And again, it's just around,when you sit at this
(20:21):
decision-making table and to bemore like you know, we have, as
much as we don't like to, wedon't want a hierarchy, there is
one and when you, when the buckfalls with you, you are making
decisions that impact a lot ofpeople. So, whatever those
decisions are, you need to, yeah,have that equity lens, but also
back yourself, yeah.
Mārama (20:42):
Thank you so much. That was some amazing kōrero. Leane,
Marissa, and Mikaere are goingto stay with us for the next
episode and we'll talk moreabout growing with confidence as
tumuaki Māori. Mā te wā.
Kia ora and welcome to The Principals, a podcast series
for new tumuaki in Aotearoa NewZealand. My name is Mārama
Stewart. Being a tumuaki is atough but rewarding job, and
being tumuaki Māori has its ownchallenges. In this episode, I'm
speaking with three amazingtumuaki Māori, one who's been a
principal for 30 years and twonearer the beginning of their
(00:31):
journeys as principals, allabout their experiences in the
role. Just to start our piece,would you like to introduce
yourselves. Marissa, would wouldyou like to start with you
Marissa (00:41):
Morena rā kia tātou. Ko Marissa Peters tokū īngoa.
He uri whakatipu ahau nō rotomai o Ngā Puhi nui tonu. ko
Pūtahi te maunga, ko Mataatuate waka, ko Māpere te awa, ko
Kohepata te marae.
heoi anō a kei Kawerau au enoho ana i tipu ake ahau ki roto
(01:02):
o Tāmaki Makaurau, I raro iho ingā rekereke o ngā kuia me
ngā kaumātua o Hoani Waititimarae, ki reirā ako ai, kuraina
ai, a ngā whai anō na whai ingā āhuatanga whakaako
tamariki.
However, I've ended up coming toKawerau. I've been in Kawerau
(01:23):
for the last 10 years. And thisis my second year as a tumuaki
principal in a mainstream kura.Kia ora rā.
Mārama (01:33):
Mikaere
Mikaere (01:34):
Kia ora koutou, ko Ōtawa tōku maunga, ko Raparapa
a hoi tōku awa, ko Hei tōkumarae, ko Te Arawa tōku waka,
ko Waitaha Hei tōku iwi, koMikaere October tōku ingoa, ko
au te tumuaki i te kura tūrua oTaoroa, so Principal at Trident
High School. I feel like I'vebounced around a little bit. So
(01:56):
I whakapapa to Te Puke in theBay, grew up in Christchurch,
attended Burnside High School. Iknow people always ask which
high school you went to ifyou're from Christchurch. But
did all my in the North Island,so Mount Maunganui College as a
first year teacher up to a DP.My first principal job was at
Waiheke High School for twoyears before I moved to
(02:19):
Whakatāne to take a job atTrident High School.
Mārama (02:22):
And kia ora Leanne
Leanne (02:23):
Kia ora Ko Orowhana tōku maunga, ko Rangahiki tōku
awa, ko Ohwhata tōku
moana, ko Mamari tōku waka, koTe Rārawa tōku iwi, ko Manukau
tōku marae, ko Whakamaharatangatōku whare tupuna, ko Ngāti
Wairu Pirao, ko Ngāti Kurioquhapu, Te Uriohapu Kukuruia, Ko
(02:47):
Ahau te Tūmuāki o Manaia View,ko ahau te Manukura o ngā
Tūmuāki o Aotearoa. So yeah, Ihail from the far north too,
born but not bred unfortunately,so born in Kaitaia but bred in
Tāumaranui, so I spent all mychildhood down there and then
(03:10):
got sent off, shipped off toboarding school and as I said
back in the day, you know, Ihold my parents responsible for
the fact that they didn't sentme to St. Joes, they sent me to
Sacred Heart and yeah, my,pretty much all of my education
was therefore in Hamilton. Iwent to Waikato and then started
(03:32):
my first principal's job. Mynanny said to me, "Come home
Baba, you're too, you need toget back to your iwi and hapū.
So, that's the reason I went toNgataki 30 years ago, almost to
the day and today I am livingdown here in Wellington, Monday
to Friday and go home in theweekends to Whangarei to meet up
(03:55):
with the hubby, works well forboth of us. Kia ora.
Mārama (03:59):
Thank you so much. So um, you have been a tumuaki for
was it like back then? I canimagine there weren't very many
Māori principals at that time,and you as a young Māori female
principal as well, wahine Māori -what was it like?
Leanne (04:15):
Yeah, 30 years. I mean back then it was three terms, I
came into a kura May 1995, backthen Ngataki was actually back
in the old system, a decile 4,so predominantly
pākeha, in terms of the boardof trustees pākeha as well.
There was only a handful ofMāori principals in Northland,
(04:38):
and it was extremely isolatingand I felt incredibly
vulnerable. I had no blueprintto follow, no visible role
models at all. Those principalswho were Māori were fresh like
me, we were all in beginningstages. I mean, beginning
principals back then were KelvinDavis and Peter Witana. You know,
(04:58):
names we all know today but theywere beginning stages of their
career so there was no,definitely no sense, that my
identity as a Maōri woman wasan asset in
principalship. The system was
Eurocentric, unapologetically so,my board made sure I realised
that. My reo, my tikanga, mymatauranga Māori, only were
(05:22):
they unrecognised, they werequietly discouraged. I became
quite fluent at reading the room,you know, learning to soften my
language which was, you know,that's what we did back then and
reshaped my thinking to fit intothe spaces that really weren't
built for me. I remember goingto the first principals meeting
and just being overwhelmed bythe number of men for starters,
(05:45):
and the fact that they were allolder, a lot older and they were
all non Māori. And I'm, exceptfor Pete and Kelvin so of course
I just mean straight for them.You know that year 1995, you
know, it coincided with thebeginning of Te Akatea, and so
being at the first Te Akateaconference was a turning point
(06:06):
for me. It gave me a rōpū tolean into, and a sense that I
wasn't completely alone. Still,navigating the expectations of
mainstream education and, youknow, that deep responsibility I
had to my iwi and hapū waspretty heavy back then. So, you
know, you know, early in mycareer that balancing act felt
(06:30):
like a real burden. I wasconstantly switching codes,
adjusting myself, careful not tocome across as too Māori in
pākeha spaces and yet neverMāori enough in others because
of my upbringing, you know, thattook a toll, that took a toll on
my confidence, on my sense ofbelonging, on my wairua, you
(06:50):
know, but over time I'verealized that walking in both
worlds is not a weakness, it's astrength, but you can't do it
well if you're pretending andthe most important thing I've
learned is that I can't serveanyone, not my profession,
unless I lead as my authenticself and I think that's
something I recognized asauthenticity is my anchor. You
(07:14):
know, it's what's given mecourage, it's what allows me to
speak the truth in the roomsthat I, you know, that weren't
built for people like me. And Ihope it's what gives other
Māori leaders permission to dothe same so, yes, I navigate
both worlds and I have learnt todo it really well because of,
you know, how I started.
Mārama (07:33):
It was quite the adversity you faced to begin
with. T must have reallytoughened you up and given you a
little bit of motivation,perhaps, to change the landscape
you're now in NZPF leading thatorganisation. It's a huge change.
Leanne (07:50):
Well, you know, now you've got more space for
kaupapa Maōri and there's morerecognition of that in our
leadership style, so it's notperfect, but it's definitely
changed, you know, today tumuakiMāori are likely to lead as
their full selves. And, you know,it's taken years of pushing and
(08:10):
holding ground and shifting theculture
from within, from within our ownstaffroom sometimes. And, you
know, that is that is a pressureand an expectation of the system.
You know, the policies, thelanguage of bureaucracy, you
know, they come from one worldand we come from another and
(08:32):
we've got to carry that bothevery single
Mārama (08:35):
That's amazing. Marissa, now you're at the other end of
the scale as a principal you'rein your second year, does any of
what Leanne spoke about resonatewith you
Marissa (08:46):
Yeah. I think tuatahi ake e mihi ana kia koutou nga
kāi kōkiri i te kaupapa. Youknow, I think 95 was a pivotal
year for me as a teenager cominginto high school and I grew up
in a kura kaupapa wharekuracontext and we had our struggles
back then. But I'm reallygrateful for the role models
(09:09):
that I had that were in thoseleadership roles as tumuaki at
the time. It was rich, I hadpeople like Katerina Te Heikoko
Mataira, Whaea Evelyn
Tobin, that were the role modelsin i āta poipoi ā mātou, to
see wahine Māori leading theway and kaupapa that was, you
(09:34):
know, it was being challenged atthe time we faced many
challenges and to see how thatkaupapa of working as a wahine
Māori in leadership can workalongside our tāne Māori and
to find that balance.
And I'm really grateful for that.It taught me to navigate my way
(09:55):
through high school, I ended upgoing into a mainstream kura in
my later years at Auckland GirlsGrammar. I was surrounded by
wahine, I was surrounded bywahine and we had a Pākeha
tumuaki but I was in a rūmakisetting through Kahurangi ki
Maungawhau and again havingsomeone like Jenny Lee who was
(10:17):
there to manaaki i ā mātou toteach us how to be leaders and
authentically so being Māorileaders.
So I probably learnt from areally young age how to vocal as
a wahine, having to learn how tohold myself in kaupapa Māori,
(10:39):
especially when trying not to betokenistic as well in some
kaupapa when I was in amainstream setting.
But being passionate about who Iwas and to find myself and what
that meant. So I'm reallygrateful for the type of
(11:01):
leadership that was there, eventhough I know it would have been
a struggle back then, I couldimagine, for us who are coming
through now, it's really givenus the tools and the skills to
be able to be a Wahine inleadership and wahine Māori at
that.
(11:23):
And e hara i te mea e whakaitiana i ngā tāne, because I also
saw how tāne can support wahinein these roles. Absolutely.
So to be able to see that andhow you can balance each other
and support each other has beenreally crucial. I think today,
(11:44):
in our community, we have threewahine who are in tumuaki
positions and our mayor is awahine Māori. So in this
community, I probably have beenreally fortunate to feel quite
supported in the role as awahine Māori.
(12:08):
But I think yeah coming back tosome of the challenges in a
mainstream setting. For me,coming into the position, it was
being comfortable in knowing whoI was and what type of leader I
am. And if that suited our kuraand our community and our
whānau. And that was important.It was important for me when I
(12:33):
took on this position was thisis how I come, this is the full
package. Yes, I am passionateabout kaupapa Māori, te reo
Māori, kapa haka, ao Māori,tikanga Māori.
But I also believe in the korerothat, you know, I'm also Pākeha
(12:53):
too. I have an Norwegianwhakapapa that I need to
acknowledge. And kia kaua au etāmi i te taha pākeha, I taku
taha pākeha but kia haerehāngai. So finding, how do I
navigate that space too, how doI ensure that ko te manaaki au i
(13:13):
taku taha pākeha, ko te manaakiau i taku taha Māori? How do I
encourage that in a kura in aōrakei setting. I face some of
those challenges I've been givenfeedback that some feel that I
may push kaupapa on to them. Andyou know I'm for that, I'm for
(13:34):
that, if it feels that I'mpushing it, then it's the
question of why do you feelpushed. Because I'm just being
me, at the end of the day, I ambut being me, this is what I
know, this is what I've grown upthis is what I believe in, e
hara i te mea e mea ana au, mewhakapono mai koe ki wāku
mātāpono. I'm not saying thatyou have to believe in it. But
(13:56):
hey, we work in a world wherewe're constantly being
challenged. Koira taku is, yeah,I think Mikaire and I spoke
about this a couple of weeks agobecause I felt a little bit
challenged in some feedbackabout how to be authentically
yourselves. And I thought, cool,I needed to hear that. I needed
that reassurance of it's okay tobe challenged but are you being
(14:20):
authentic in who you are? AndI've been, yeah, actually, I am.
I am. Take it or leave it. Thisis how I am.
Mārama (14:27):
That's the thing that I've noticed over the last few
podcasts we've recorded, tumuakiwill talk about being secure in
who they are, being confidentand happy in who they are, which
allows them to thrive in bothworlds as you did Leanne, you
were able to be you, then codeswitch and be what you needed to
be, and then of course create aspace where we can be ourselves
(14:51):
and be seen as asset, as atumuaki Māori. Mikaere you
actually started as principal atWaiheke High School, and in my
head I think Waiheke Island, 85%Maori with all the rich, what
was that like or is myperception wrong
Mikaere (15:08):
Ae, I think now very different setting to Whakatane
is Waiheke, but I guess a verydiverse community there still as
you alluded to, largesocio-economic differences but
also just being on an islandclose to Auckland CBD, those who
actually lived there, so a lotof rich and famous there, so but
(15:29):
the school itself was quitediverse in terms of, yeah I
guess isolated island life,Ngāti Pāoa are tangata whenua
there, but there's only onemarae, Piritahi, but that's
actually Ngā Hau e Whā so noteven specific to the iwi, so
that was interesting for myself,I felt a bit of a home there as
(15:52):
a Māori coming onto the islandbecause at least it was
something that was to reclaim,but I guess thoughts are quite
well placed in of just verydifferent communities, but you
know, nga mihi ki a kōrua,Marissa and Leanne, I think this
is a generalisation here, butyou know in my opinion all
(16:13):
Māori leaders, particularlytumuaki, have to navigate both
worlds particularly in kuraŌrakei and I would argue that
others who are non Māori wouldvery much struggle to do the
same, so you know, I think aboutmy time on Waiheke and now
Trident, while there's somesimilarities, there's some huge
differences as well, but justthe ability to both world views
(16:39):
has been an advantage in thatspace.
Mārama (16:41):
So what would have been say a challenge at Waiheke that
you may find or vice versa achallenge at Trident that you
wouldn't have necessarily facedat either or school.
Mikaere (16:54):
Sure. I the common one is, you know, our education
system is inherently bias, youknow, and just in its
foundations and the way that itwas set up. And therefore, we
are always battling against that.So the ability to have that
equity lens for Māori over allthe decisions and structures
(17:16):
that you look at. And that wasno different, it was the same on
Waiheke as it is here inWhakatane at Trident High School.
But I the clear difference isthat the majority of our
students are, you know, NgātiAwa or Tuhoe, you know, we are
Ngāti Awa whenua, but we allserve the values and our rural
communities. So the kids' everyday lives, you know, a lot of
(17:41):
them very much live and breathete ao Māori outside of kura,
and I guess what myresponsibility is is to make
them feel comfortable herewithin a kura Ōrakei, a English
medium school which doesn'talways cater for that world view,
you know, speaking genericallyhere for the education I as we
(18:04):
move forward as leaders, beingMāori and unapologetically so
and being comfortable withinourselves in our decision-making
assists with those decisions
Mārama (18:14):
So it definitely that time at Waiheke perhaps being
Ngā Hau e Whā has that madeyour identity, as a leader
stronger do you think, in cominghome?
Mikaere (18:25):
I think so, absolutely. You're presented with many
opportunities too, I guess Ishowed
tuakiritanga centering yourselfas a Māori leader and certainly
when you're new to an area orwhere you're a tumuaki, you're
expected to speak in particularsettings or you know give your
(18:46):
opinion on certain matters andnot just sometimes that can be
in the media right, so Iensuring that you're honest with
yourself in your own values. Sofor me, personally, I've
mentioned I grew up inChristchurch and with my pākeha
mum and you know, want toacknowledge what Marissa said
because I'm pākeha as well, andthe honouring both sides where
(19:08):
they clash can be a reallyinteresting space but for me I
didn't learn te reo until I wasat university or in my later
years of school and the veryreason I got into education
personally was that myexperience as a young tāne
Māori in mainstream educationwas really poor in terms of
stereotyping, pigeonholing, youknow, the classic. And showing
(19:34):
my age here, Marissa looks a lotyounger than I do but you know,
even in the early 2000s and late90s being told that you
shouldn't study te reo becauseit's not going to get you
anywhere in your education. Sothat's not something that was
reserved for the 80s, 70s orbefore, you know, those things
were happening well into the newmillennium. So, you know, the
(19:59):
reason why I mentioned I'vetaken jobs in leadership is so
that I can be the, you know, theteacher, the deputy principal,
the principal that perhaps Ididn't have as a young tāne and,
you know,I see those kids thatwere like me in those So, yeah.
And again, it's just around,when you sit at this
(20:21):
decision-making table and to bemore like you know, we have, as
much as we don't like to, wedon't want a hierarchy, there is
one and when you, when the buckfalls with you, you are making
decisions that impact a lot ofpeople. So, whatever those
decisions are, you need to, yeah,have that equity lens, but also
back yourself, yeah.
Mārama (20:42):
Thank you so much. That was some amazing kōrero. Leane,
Marissa, and Mikaere are goingto stay with us for the next
episode and we'll talk moreabout growing with confidence as
tumuaki Māori. Mā te wā.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.