November 10, 2025 • 35 mins
In this episode, we explore the leadership challenges and opportunities that come with implementing curriculum and pedagogical changes in schools. Our guests share their approaches to leading educational transformation, from building staff knowledge and confidence to creating sustainable change that improves student outcomes.
Hosted by Mārama Stewart.
Our guests are:
- Arihia Stirling, tumuaki of Te Kura Māori o Ngā Tapuwae
- Catherine Law, principal of Avonside Girls’ High School
- Lorraine Taylor, principal of Silverstream School.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mārama (00:09):
Kia ora and welcome to The Principals, a podcast series
for current and aspiring tumuakiin Aotearoa. My name is Mārama
Stewart. In this episode, weexplore leadership challenges
and opportunities that come withimplementing curriculum and
pedagogical changes withinschools. Our guests share their
approaches to leadingeducational transformation, from
(00:30):
building staff knowledge andconfidence in creating
sustainable change that improvesstudent outcomes. I'm going to
let them introduce themselves.
Lorraine (00:38):
Kia ora, I'm Lorraine Taylor-Tams, I'm tumuaki of Te
Kura o Māwaihākona,Silverstream School in Upper
Hutt.
Mārama (00:47):
Kia ora and Catherine, where abouts are you located
Catherine (00:50):
Kia ora koutou, ko Catherine Law tōku ingoa, he
tumuaki o Te Kura Kohine oŌtākaro. Uhm, so I'm the
principal of Avonside Girls'High School, and we're located
on the east side of Christchurchin a new build down towards New
Brighton.
Mārama (01:06):
Kia ora,welcome and Arihia, whereabouts are you? We
are about to you
Arihia (01:09):
Hi, tēnā tatou katoa, nga mihi ki a tātou i ahi ahi.
Nō Mangere ahau, I'm thetumuaki of Te Kura Māori o Ngā
Tapuwae in Mangere Auckland.
Mārama (01:21):
Kia ora koutou, and today we are delving into the
world of curriculumimplementation. for all of you
all, when you are preparing toimplement curriculum or
pedagogical changes, what do youthink would be the first step in
getting your staff ready for thejourney ahead? Kia ora,
Catherine.
Catherine (01:39):
Oh, kia ora. So I think that it's really important
that you as the tumuaki havethat clear vision of the 'why'.
So what is it? You know, why arewe doing this? Because, uh,
that's really important forteachers to really see that the
student is at the centre of that'why'. Uhm, and the data, the
(02:02):
voice and the information thatsits behind that 'why'. Uhm, and
I think that then demonstratesthe need for a journey ahead,
perhaps some kind of schoolimprovement towards how are we
improving student achievement,attendance, engagement or
retention, and what's theresearch? The second step is
(02:23):
really to prepare your people,uh, so who are your team leaders,
your heads of departments, yoursenior leadership team, who are
the people that you need to sortof really make sure they have
the common messages, you know,you've ironed out misconceptions,
you've listened to any potentialbarriers, becaus they're going
to be your champions, they'regoing to be the people that lead
(02:43):
the messaging further down theschool. So where are we now,
what do we want to be, or wheredo we want to be down that river?
Uh, and, and what are thenon-negotiables in that, uh, is
sort of the conversations thatwe'd be having,
Mārama (02:56):
That's really cool. It's a very good, uhm, kind of a
plan to get you started. Arihia,with a te reo Māori lens, or
kura Māori lens, how would yourapproach be
Arihia (03:08):
Ah kia ora tatou, just a little bit of context. My school
is a year-one to 13 school, andwe're we're advocates for
planning from year-one to 13, sothat NCEA is supported right
from the beginning, so... soworking upon skill contents, and
then into the senior school. Sowe're lucky, we get to have our
children 13 years, so you can'tnot do well. We would definitely
(03:33):
begin with whakawhanaungatanga,and that means reconnecting as a
team as a whole school, we are awhole school, we're not a year
one to six, seven to ten, we, weconnect as a whole school, and
we actually teach across theyear levels. We would reaffirm
our shared purpose and remindourselves once again, that we
(03:55):
embrace impermanence. In asystem that is in flux a lot of
the time, that's something thatwe are always challenged with as
teachers and as tumuaki, sothat's how we would begin the
process, bearing in mind we areconstantly reviewing how we do
things, so that's the differentnature of the school that I have.
(04:15):
Kia ora.
Mārama (04:16):
Kia ora, and Lorraine, you have primary school. Are you
contributing or full?
Lorraine (04:21):
Yeah, no, we were a contributing primary school, so
we have zero to year six, but,you know, the synergies with our
other two tumuaki here is verysimilar. I would say that we
need to be sure that we know thescope of the work ahead of us as
leaders, and that we're leadingfrom the front, so kind of, you
know, even if we're not thepeople who you know, running the
(04:42):
PLD, and often we're not. Butbeing the cheerleader for that
change, we always make surewe've got an implementation plan,
which fits in with the scope ofthe work that's ahead, so we
know, you know, kind of how bigthis is going to be, and how
long it might take and how muchtime we might need to apply to
it. And make sure we've got thepeople to support us in place,
you know, this is a thing, wecan't do these things on our own,
(05:04):
often we need the support andresources in place, we also,
like every school we've gotgreat people, so we would also
need to be aware of what ourpeople already know, what skills
and knowledge the team alreadyhave, and what we can draw on
and begin with
Arihia (05:19):
Can I just add something to my kōrero I missed. I said,
you know, begin withwhakawhanaungatanga reconnecting
as a team, reaffirming ourshared purpose. Two other points
I'd like to make is we want toanchor change in our kaupapa to
remind ourselves that everychild is part of a whānau, not
just a student in the and thefinal point I'd like to make is
(05:41):
provide clarity early so thatstaff feels safe and respected
on a journey that is really,really challenging at times, but
with whakawhanaungatanga, wejust learn to trust each other
and that we are the changeagents for our So it's really,
really important that we comewith the idea that our children
(06:05):
deserve to be well-looked afterby the professionals that teach
them.
Mārama (06:12):
Kia ora. Um building on from that Arihia, looking at
whānau as a framework ofsupport when there are multiple
changes coming through. Howwould you prioritise? How would
you decide which gets theattention first within your kura,
especially when everything seemsreally urgent.
Arihia (06:31):
I think that one of the lucky things about Māori mana
motuhake is that re-engage withMāori values, to guide our
priorities, what best upholdsthe well-being and our success
of our children, or our ākonga.Make sure that we place the
whānau's need at the centre ofthe change. If a change doesn't
serve the child and whānau well,it must wait. Balance the
(06:53):
urgency with manaakitanga andI'm a strong advocate of my
teachers' health andparticularly their mental health.
So I work very hard not tooverload them and we scaffold
that information we need to do,and do it with purpose, but with
dignity of the teacher in mind
Mārama (07:11):
Right, tika. Catherina I'm just thinking about that
comment balancing urgency withmanaakitanga, you have teenagers
who are going through somereally big changes in their
lives. How do you balance that
Catherine (07:26):
As in with the changes that are happening.
Mārama (07:28):
Yeah,
Catherine (07:29):
yeah. Yeah. Um, I, we have a very clear sense, I want
to go, I want to build on whatArihia was talking about around
values and the core of who weare, what is at the heart of our
school. Um, and we a very clearsense of that and come back to
that in our strategic priorities.Uh, we do a lot of listening, um,
(07:50):
being in a secondary school. Wehave the privilege, well, I
suspect that younger children dothis to in your kura, we have
the privilege of, um, havingyoung people who have a lot to
say, um, and our clever andarticulate and have a lot of
really good ideas. And so welisten to them a lot, because
that's a really important wayfor us to understand what we
(08:10):
need to prioritise for our young,particularly young women, in our
case, uh, at the moment. if weare looking at how we prioritize
changes that are coming,multiple changes that are coming
in, plus what we're listening tofrom students, what we're
listening to from staff, um, wemight use some of Liz City's
work around strategic ease andimpact. Uh, and we, we do that
(08:33):
as a staff. We might do thatwith our students and we do that
with our teams. Uh, if we justput everything out, then we
prioritize what's going to havethe most impact, but perhaps
have the best ease of, uh,implementation, uh, and where do
we start? So we break changeinto what do we need to do now?
What could we do in a year ortwo? Where do we want to be in
(08:54):
four years time? So try to breakit down so it's not so
overwhelming. Um, but listening,as Arihia pointed out around
your community listening isreally important to prioritize
where the is.
Mārama (09:07):
Hmm, that's a really good advice. How about you,
Lorraine, with your littlepeople?
Lorraine (09:12):
Yeah, that's right. I mean, there are obviously lots
of things currently. I mean,there always are lots of things,
and it leans into that wholething around competing
commitments scenario,particularly that principals
grapple with all the time. Thereare so competing commitments in,
in any given day or term or year.We actually used a framework
(09:33):
pretty recently, with our wholestaff. And we worked out that
there were currently for usabout 18 different things that
we needed to have our eyes on.Given that we only have two eyes
each that was kind of tricky. So,we used a thing called a
comparative marking strategy,and it's pretty simple, actually,
(09:53):
but it works really effectively.We took all 18 things that we
felt we needed to have our eyeson, we gave a copy of them to
all of the staff and then thestaff literally cut them up into
strips of took two things, forexample, no hands up structured
mathematics, both things that weneed to have eyes on now and
(10:13):
into the next two, three years.And decided for themselves,
which one of those things wasmost important for their
professional learning and put itin order, then they took the
next one, for example, might beunderstanding cognitive load
theory. And then they said, iscognitive load theory more
important for me to learn, thenstructured mathematics or less
important than no hands uppolicy and they went through all
(10:35):
18 individually and put it inorder and you have to make a
decision then around because youcan't do everything, what is the
order. So that became part oftheir professional growth cycle
individually, but then we tookthat and analysed across the
whole staff to see what are thetop three things for our 30
teachers to look at, and that'show we sort of managed to put an
(10:57):
order in place of what wasurgent for teachers. And our own
our own strategic goals as well,and a great way of prioritising
those things.
Mārama (11:06):
That's so great, because you've got that buy-in I
guess from your teachers, whocould possibly, with all these
changes, start feeling a bit ofchange fatigue. What other
strategies could you guyssuggest for bringing your kaiako
along with these changes?
Catherine (11:22):
Building on what Lorraine is saying, we've used a
similar activity around, um,what do we want our expectations
in classrooms to be and teachersactually prioritising is a great
way forward. We've also done aninternal and external circle, so
let's just put all these thingsthat are really acknowledged,
that there is change fatigue atthe moment. I think we need to
(11:44):
acknowledge it as principals andwe also need to acknowledge that
our staff, our teachers, have ahuge burning desire to do the
best work for students. We didan activity where they put
everything down that wasoverwhelming and then divided it
into internal and external sointernal circle external circle,
which are the things that wehave control over, which are
things the school has controlover, which are things I have
(12:06):
control over, which of those amI going to prioritise, which is
a school that we are going tosay is the priority. That was
quite a good activity and Ithink it is very important to
give that time to planning andprioritising and working with
staff and acknowledging all thethings that are sitting around
their heads. I also think it isreally important to safeguard
(12:29):
them so there is a lot of stuffin the media about this is
coming and this is coming. Ithink being really clear with
staff that we have got our handon the tiller, we have got a map.
We are not going to suddenlyrace off down this tributary
over here and grab this thing orgrab this thing here. We are not
going to suddenly startlistening to this professional
(12:51):
develop, we know where we aregoing and your job really is to
safeguard them a little bit Ithink around that as well.
Mārama (12:57):
I can really hear how important having a strong vision
is, and getting that vision inthat vision forward at all times,
to keep everyone heading in theright direction is a real key to
this. Arihia, you've got so manydifferent levels and you've
already touched on you bringingeveryone along together. How do
you build that internal capacityamongst your staff to balance
(13:21):
all of that?
Arihia (13:22):
We have a really open hear your voice strategy in our
kura and it's really, we arevery, very sensitive to our
student voice. So we reviewstudent feelings about learning
every term from year one to 13.It sounds quite ominous but it's
not, it's actually reallywonderful. That's one of my
(13:43):
strategies that when we'rehaving to make changes, I
usually collate those wonderfulthings that the kids say about
their teachers and we put themon the board and then I get them
to remind them, so they knowwe're going to have a think tank
about stuff that's going to givesome anxiety, but I want them to
feel settled in the fact thatthey're doing a great job anyway.
(14:05):
So they just make some feel goodabout their position as
professional teachers. And italso reminds us the world is
where our children are. And ineducation, that's very important
for us as Māori advocates. AndI want to pick up what Catherine
said. You know, we just getbombarded with PD that just
never lands for our people. Um,so we don't do PD whenever
(14:28):
something comes on, someonewants to save us from doing
something, we can actually saveourselves. So I think the
strategy of being within,knowing our own world and the
way in which activate, um,educational agency for our
children and our families, um,actually resides within
ourselves. For a few things thatdo land on the outside. And we
(14:48):
have another strategy calledNawe, Rawe, and Kawe. And what
we do as teachers is we lookwhat is in front of us. Nawe is
about, what are the things thatgive us fear. Rawe are the
things, what do we think aboutwhat are the great things that
could happen out of making achange process like this. And
then the other one is Kawe,which means what are the points
(15:11):
to consider. And then we, weextrapolate what a positive
point to consider and what anegative and then that's, that's
one of our building blocks tostart. Then the next thing we do
is we actually acknowledge thefatigue openly, we don't dismiss
it. We create space for kōreroand collective problem-solving
(15:32):
after reminding ourselves thatwe're doing good job. We know
what our fears are, we knowwhat's good about the change
process, and we know what weneed to consider that we didn't
consider in the positives andthe negatives. The final process
would be we would celebrate oursmall wins, but we would we'd
stay in keeping our moralegrounded and our pride in our
(15:54):
tamariki
Mārama (15:55):
Great to hear how you've really balanced that
internal capacity amongst yourstaff and built across to really
empower them to feel good aboutthese changes. Lorraine, how do
you get feedback or givefeedback to your community about
these changes that are comingthrough?
Lorraine (16:11):
I think the really important thing, and of course,
we would all say the same isworking in partnership with
whānau is the absolute key tocommunicating any kind of change
that we're going through inschool. But I think what's
really important and I maybesome schools are a little I
don't know, may a little whakamaabout it but being vulnerable in
(16:32):
talking about the changes thatyou're undertaking and the new
training that you're involved in,or the new ideas that you're
thinking about and keepingparents interested and engaged
in what you're doing, they'llall have a view, they have
children at the school, they'reinvested. And being really open
about parents being involved,for example we were thinking
about how we might change theway we report any kind of data
(16:55):
to parents, whether that'slearning data or a well-being
data or any kind of progressdata. And then I thought, 'Well
gee, you know, I don't have anychildren in this school so maybe
I should ask some parents whatthey would like.' You know,
we've all got bucket loads ofdata, we've got data coming out
of our ears in schools. So wegot a little parent reporting
(17:15):
group together, we just put itin the newsletter and said does
anybody to do this and have yougot some time?' and 11 parents
came forward and said 'Yeah,I've got some views on that.' So
they came and we've been meetingsince February, and they talk
about what data they'd likesending home, what format they
would like it in. So it's beenreally interesting to hear from
(17:36):
a variety of parents first youwhat's important to them.
Mārama (17:40):
That's so great. You've got them involved. That's a good
How about you, Catherine?
Catherine (17:44):
We are obviously quite a big school. Sometimes,
our parents are very busy now,working and they're sort of,
right, they're off, they'reteenagers. Our job is to really
create that whānau partnershipso that we can get that really
good feedback from all differentgroups of our parents. One of
the things I used and this isbecause I took over as principal
(18:05):
during COVID and so I had tofind a way to communicate. I
have a principal's vlog on aFriday. It is a video, it is me
talking. I had to do that tostart with because I was telling
the community about changes forCOVID which were huge. They
never met me, they never seen meand they weren't going to meet
me because we were all obviouslyhousebound. So the vlog. Now the
(18:31):
parents would... I mean, all thefeedback every year, they're
like, don't get rid of the vlog,they love the vlog. So I used
the vlog really helpfullybecause you can see my face,
you've got my body language,you've got my eyes, you've got
to talk about things that I maythen be going to email them or
communicate with. But I usedthat verbal message first with
(18:53):
them. We do the same withstudents, we'll gather the
students together and talk withthem about things that are, for
example, we're not going to havelevel 1 in science next year
because it's not preparing ourstudents well enough for level 2
and 3. We're going to have arigorous science curriculum
working through thatconversation with parents and
with students face to faceverbally very clear about the
(19:14):
why. So those are the sorts ofthings that we've developed to
get out to a really widecommunity. And then we have
built a lot of different parentcollectives who come and feed in
a little bit like Lorraine'sdoing really with a view to them
having a voice in things thatare happening in the school. I
think that is really, really key.Best you do something, if you're
(19:37):
listening to them, of coursebest you do something. So when
you go back, you can actuallyshow that they've had that
they've had impact and thenthey'll come back.
Mārama (19:45):
You've kind of touched on next question was about
adapting your approach to needsor the challenges of your
community when you'reimplementing a new curriculum.
Would you have anything aroundthat?
Catherine (19:59):
I think that it your word adapting is really
important, we're going to haveto communicate some really quite
pieces of information orunderstanding or mindset shift.
If we can find different ways todo that using some of the more
modern media outlets,particularly in big communities
where we've got a lot of peoplewe need to reach and offer that
(20:23):
opportunity to come face to facein groups to hear about things
rather than just your email oryour letter I think that, that
encourages that dialogue andthat kōrero between and you can
start to really and how arethese changes in practice et
cetera, you can continue thatconversation then down the line.
Mārama (20:39):
That's really good. Arihia, what systems or
processes would you use nowyou've got gathered all that
data from your staff or thatinformation from your tamariki
and from your whānau. Whatprocesses would you use to put
in place to monitor how wellthese changes do you monitor
that progress?
Arihia (20:57):
Firstly we have quite a robust data collation and
evidence checking system acrossthe three tranches of our school,
so zero to six. Um we break thatup into year zero to three and
then four to six. And then wehave a transition point check
from year six to into seven,which then sits in what we call
the engine room of our school,which our year seven to 10 area
(21:21):
because, you know, we're luckythat we get to have our kids for
all of those times. And then wehave another checkpoint at year
10, and readiness to go intoyear 11, 12, and 13. Along with
that, we have a whānau huievery month, so we get about 250
parents at every meeting. Andhow we do that is our media
(21:41):
studies class puts a videotogether of all the work, all
the things that we've doneacross the whole school that, in
that month. So that everybodycomes just to watch themselves
on, it's a great way to getpeople. We only meet for an hour,
and it's quite structured. Atevery meeting we report back
data. Um, so at the beginning ofthe year, it'll be the NCA data.
(22:03):
Then our next meeting will beour health and wellbeing data.
And then down to our literacynumeracy data, then our
culturalcy data. The culturalcydata is our name for te ao
Māori. So my parents are quiteused to, and they're quite savvy
at understanding data. And thenwhat we do is each term we have
(22:23):
a presentation by our studentsto their, their parents about
what they're learning, they'regiven evidence about that. And
then after they've finisheddoing the conference to their
parents, their parents, uh, markit. And then we give feedback
about how they presented, to thestudents, in a grateful way, you
(22:44):
know, so that they feel thepower of their own voice during
those times, because it's reallyimportant that the students
understand their educationalwhakapapa, and they know the
promise of what education cangive to them. So our students
have to basically in theconference with their parents to
say, I have NCA, blah, blah,blah, blah in this subject, this
(23:08):
subjects, this subject it'sendorsed and this, and what it
does, it gives them anunderstanding in their minds
that their educational prowessis really, really important. So
one of the mantras in our schoolis the more education you have,
the more choices you have, themore choices you have, the more
employable you are. And manamotuhaketanga is embedded in
(23:31):
everything from all the STEMsubjects right through. And I
think that's important about thewhole system understanding what
data means, what it doesn't mean,and taking the fear out of what
you don't know and placing itback with the things that you do
know. Then it goes back toteachers feeling that they work
(23:54):
together, they've got a strongcollective of vision rooted in
the kaupapa that we have, andeverybody then is alive from a
whānau, educational system,allow each kaiako to
professional professionalfreedom within the vision, room
for creativity and not justcompliance. And then the other
thing is making sure that thesenior teachers and the junior
(24:18):
support each other withconsistency, so you can grow the
shared practice. Because things,and another thing probably about
my school being little, is thatwe teach a number of NCA
subjects. We don't the luxury ofdifferent departments, so we're
used to sharing learningintegration and ways that our
(24:43):
students can build theirunderstanding of their
individual subject throughlearnings from other subjects.
So we share the learning, and wescaffold the skill in other
areas of subject areas to makeit more meaningful for the
students to get it.
Mārama (25:02):
That's really cool, it's you've built through the
monitoring and reporting somereal accountability of self and
accountability of whānau andaccountability of kaiako all
working together as a team tomove to shared vision. Well how
about you Lorraine when you'rethinking about processes to
monitor how the changes are orwhere the support needs to be in
(25:24):
your kura, how do you do that inyour space?
Lorraine (25:27):
I think it's a combination of your kind of
formal systems of looking at howchanges are embedded in the
school through your kind ofcoaching systems, mentoring
feedback, observations, teamleaders do a lot of that work
because they're kind of on thefrontline, they're teaching and
they're also leading a team,professional growth cycles, we
(25:47):
have reflective practicejournals that teachers also say
how things are going for them.So there are lots of ways that
you can monitor the changes in aschool but I think the most
valuable and it's kind of almostintangible, is those non-formal
walkarounds. You can feel withinthree minutes in a room, the
environment, you can hear thetalk, you can hear the change,
(26:08):
you can hear teachers excitedabout their and talking things
they're going to try next. And Ithink one of the things that we
underestimate is you know, whenteachers feel confident that
they're doing a good job, thenthat success and confidence,
breeds success and confidenceand you've got something to
build on. I don't think there'sa single teacher in the world
(26:31):
that goes to work to do aterrible job. Teachers want to
know that they're doing a goodjob, and they can feel it, they
can feel that lesson's hummingalong, that kids are engaged,
that parents are happy, thatthey feel like they got through
that lesson and it was great andthey feel a sense of
accomplishment. So yeah you canput lots and lots of systems in
(26:53):
place. But if you can build anenvironment and a school culture,
where success breed success andpeople are excited to talk about
what they've done, you're on agreat path.
Mārama (27:02):
I completely agree with you that first even seconds you
go into a classroom, you canfeel the vibe. And I think
you've kind of touched on myfinal question, but if you had
anything more to add for anyprincipals who might be feeling
overwhelmed with the pace ofchange and what practical advice
could you give about maintainingthat focus and momentum while at
(27:23):
the same time protecting yourstaff's what else could you add
to that Lorraine?
Lorraine (27:28):
Oh, I think that whole thing around competing
commitments is something thatyou have to keep front and
centre. We're, you're always asa principal going to have
competing through your wholecareer. So I think it's being
really clear about what's thefirst thing to work on for your
team at your place. You know,don't worry about what other
people are doing, just thinkabout what you need to do. So
(27:48):
what's the first thing you needto do for your team at your and
keep going and stick at it. Andonce you've, once you've learned,
you know, kind of whatever is,you know, whether it's some
structured literacy, for youknow, that learning is sticky.
stay away from being siloed intothings like we're doing
structured literacy or we'redoing maths. For example, if
you're looking at structuredliteracy, you can also look at
(28:11):
how you're using white boards,which would naturally lead on to
looking at formative assessment,and then you'd be looking at
Dylan Williams' hinge questions,and that would naturally follow
on as well. So, you start with,what's the best thing to start
with for your team at this time,avoid being siloed, and remember
that learning is sticky, and itwill lead you to the next thing.
Mārama (28:32):
I like that sticky learning. How's your sticky
learning, Catherine?
Catherine (28:36):
Love that. I'm smiling at that. Lorraine and
Arihia here have said a lot ofthings that I would absolutely
agree with and I want to just goback a step and talk about
collective efficacy and there'sa very good book, Jenny
Donahue's book about collectiveefficacy and when staff have a
sense of collective efficacythat we can make a difference
(28:57):
for our students with what we'redoing, I think you can go much
further than you think you can.With the overwhelm I have a
great picture that I keep abovemy my computer which is someone
on a rock with the storm aroundit and that person's pointing
over there that direction and Ithink I would tautoko a lot of
(29:19):
what Lorraine has said if youare in a space where there are a
lot of waves crashing at therock it's actually even more
important that your hand is onthe tiller and you're saying
right well which wave do we needto take first and that's the
wave we take, but keeping youreye always on we're still
heading in that direction andthen the next wave and then the
(29:41):
next wave. I think that's reallyimportant and that like Lorraine
said don't worry about whatother people are doing, decide
with your senior leadership team,review each week is this, you
know just, and with your staffthis is what we're doing and I
think you know it's reallyimportant to reach out though
and have those conversationswith people if you're feeling
(30:02):
really overwhelmed as aprincipal with the amount of
change, because you'll probablyfind that everybody else is
feeling the same and has alsogot really good strategies for
how to how to manage it withtheir staff. so those principles
and think oh my god they looklike they've got it nailed
because that is just not the joband there's that wonderful
(30:25):
picture of Liz City's bookaround how you have the sense
that you're going to be herethis is what your perfect
school's gonna look like -you're never going to get there,
you're always going to be ridingthe wave and then one day
someone else will take over butyou know you're still looking
after it going in that directionlooking after the waka or the
boat. But, you know, with thatsense of direction.
Mārama (30:47):
Yeah, and it bringing it back to you Arihia again, I
think that whakawhanaungatangaor the waka, you can't just row
it by yourself, your whole teamneeds to be going together and
their connections that are soimportant.
Arihia (31:00):
I think that's right about the collective of the
staff, but I think when you'rethinking about yourself, I think
that in order for us to not beoverwhelmed, think about being a
parent in my case a mother. Youtell your children to take some
time out, think about yourselffirst, have some silence, you
know, get back to calm, findyour own peace, practice that. I
(31:24):
would say do that first, becauseit's really, it's a hard job
right 30 years of principalship.I know for myself I've weathered
some serious storms, but theones that I've beaten the most
is because I've stopped and I'vebreathed and I thought right
where am I going and who canhelp me. It's really quite that
(31:44):
basic, you know, be kind toyourself because we have a lot
of unnecessary self talk about Ishould've would've could've, or
you know, if I go this way, oh Ishould have done that, and then
I would have made this, actuallymistakes I always tell my
students, the more mistakes youhave, if you learned from them,
you become an expert. So I thinkwe are so good at being
(32:07):
principals that manage for along time. We really don't think
about our own well-being. Andcan I just say that I've only
started learning this as Istarted my exit plan two years
ago, and I'm on my sabbaticalnow, and I leave at the end of
this year. But if I could, and Isay to, I've said to my staff,
if I knew what I knew back then,I would be a much better person.
(32:28):
That's the first thing. I thinkthe second thing trust the
people in your or in your school.Because for of the children in
my community, their school istheir second home. So you trust
all the siblings or the adultsin your kainga to look after our
tamariki and think lovingthoughts I would say. Some
(32:50):
people think that's a little bitof cultural fluff. We, it's not,
its reality. I would remindourselves to go back who don't
lose sight of why we are and whowe are and that challenges
possibly fears are falseexpectations appearing real.
then say to principals, protectkaiako well-being, pace the
(33:14):
change, prioritise rest andbalance so people can breathe
and take a aha moment. Becauseremember, most teachers have got
families, too. And not only arethey looking at it from a
perspective, they are havinganxiety about whether or not the
school is going to be fit forpurpose for their own children.
(33:35):
We always forget about teacherswho are actually parents as well.
So when you think about it,we're carrying both anxiety
issues as a professional and asa parent, will my child's
learning land for them. And thenfinally, for me would be
remember each child or tamaiticomes from a whānau. not
(33:57):
isolated. When we nurture themin their learning, we nurture
and what I mean by that is thatwhen we nurture ourselves, we
have a better society. So thoseare my pearls of wisdom. I hope
they land, no.
Mārama (34:12):
That is wonderful. That's great. Thank you so much,
guys, I really heard themessages around vision, about
connection, looking afteryourself and reaching out and
knowing that you're not alonewhen you're moving through this
pace of change and controlling.You're the boss, so you get to
decide what's coming through thegates and what you can pause and
(34:35):
um just owning that, it's okayto say no, we'll wait for there.
So yeah, thank you to all of youfor our kōrero
Arihia (34:41):
break.
Mārama (34:42):
today.
Arihia (34:43):
Thank you, it was lovely to listen to you both. you.
Mārama (34:47):
That was such an awesome kōrero, and it's great
to hear that we had a mention ofprofessional growth cycle in our
next episode, Eleisha will betalking to tumuaki about how
they lead their kaiako throughthe professional growth cycle
and how that can improvepractice. Mā te wā.
Kia ora and welcome to The Principals, a podcast series
for current and aspiring tumuakiin Aotearoa. My name is Mārama
Stewart. In this episode, weexplore leadership challenges
and opportunities that come withimplementing curriculum and
pedagogical changes withinschools. Our guests share their
approaches to leadingeducational transformation, from
(00:30):
building staff knowledge andconfidence in creating
sustainable change that improvesstudent outcomes. I'm going to
let them introduce themselves.
Lorraine (00:38):
Kia ora, I'm Lorraine Taylor-Tams, I'm tumuaki of Te
Kura o Māwaihākona,Silverstream School in Upper
Hutt.
Mārama (00:47):
Kia ora and Catherine, where abouts are you located
Catherine (00:50):
Kia ora koutou, ko Catherine Law tōku ingoa, he
tumuaki o Te Kura Kohine oŌtākaro. Uhm, so I'm the
principal of Avonside Girls'High School, and we're located
on the east side of Christchurchin a new build down towards New
Brighton.
Mārama (01:06):
Kia ora,welcome and Arihia, whereabouts are you? We
are about to you
Arihia (01:09):
Hi, tēnā tatou katoa, nga mihi ki a tātou i ahi ahi.
Nō Mangere ahau, I'm thetumuaki of Te Kura Māori o Ngā
Tapuwae in Mangere Auckland.
Mārama (01:21):
Kia ora koutou, and today we are delving into the
world of curriculumimplementation. for all of you
all, when you are preparing toimplement curriculum or
pedagogical changes, what do youthink would be the first step in
getting your staff ready for thejourney ahead? Kia ora,
Catherine.
Catherine (01:39):
Oh, kia ora. So I think that it's really important
that you as the tumuaki havethat clear vision of the 'why'.
So what is it? You know, why arewe doing this? Because, uh,
that's really important forteachers to really see that the
student is at the centre of that'why'. Uhm, and the data, the
(02:02):
voice and the information thatsits behind that 'why'. Uhm, and
I think that then demonstratesthe need for a journey ahead,
perhaps some kind of schoolimprovement towards how are we
improving student achievement,attendance, engagement or
retention, and what's theresearch? The second step is
(02:23):
really to prepare your people,uh, so who are your team leaders,
your heads of departments, yoursenior leadership team, who are
the people that you need to sortof really make sure they have
the common messages, you know,you've ironed out misconceptions,
you've listened to any potentialbarriers, becaus they're going
to be your champions, they'regoing to be the people that lead
(02:43):
the messaging further down theschool. So where are we now,
what do we want to be, or wheredo we want to be down that river?
Uh, and, and what are thenon-negotiables in that, uh, is
sort of the conversations thatwe'd be having,
Mārama (02:56):
That's really cool. It's a very good, uhm, kind of a
plan to get you started. Arihia,with a te reo Māori lens, or
kura Māori lens, how would yourapproach be
Arihia (03:08):
Ah kia ora tatou, just a little bit of context. My school
is a year-one to 13 school, andwe're we're advocates for
planning from year-one to 13, sothat NCEA is supported right
from the beginning, so... soworking upon skill contents, and
then into the senior school. Sowe're lucky, we get to have our
children 13 years, so you can'tnot do well. We would definitely
(03:33):
begin with whakawhanaungatanga,and that means reconnecting as a
team as a whole school, we are awhole school, we're not a year
one to six, seven to ten, we, weconnect as a whole school, and
we actually teach across theyear levels. We would reaffirm
our shared purpose and remindourselves once again, that we
(03:55):
embrace impermanence. In asystem that is in flux a lot of
the time, that's something thatwe are always challenged with as
teachers and as tumuaki, sothat's how we would begin the
process, bearing in mind we areconstantly reviewing how we do
things, so that's the differentnature of the school that I have.
(04:15):
Kia ora.
Mārama (04:16):
Kia ora, and Lorraine, you have primary school. Are you
contributing or full?
Lorraine (04:21):
Yeah, no, we were a contributing primary school, so
we have zero to year six, but,you know, the synergies with our
other two tumuaki here is verysimilar. I would say that we
need to be sure that we know thescope of the work ahead of us as
leaders, and that we're leadingfrom the front, so kind of, you
know, even if we're not thepeople who you know, running the
(04:42):
PLD, and often we're not. Butbeing the cheerleader for that
change, we always make surewe've got an implementation plan,
which fits in with the scope ofthe work that's ahead, so we
know, you know, kind of how bigthis is going to be, and how
long it might take and how muchtime we might need to apply to
it. And make sure we've got thepeople to support us in place,
you know, this is a thing, wecan't do these things on our own,
(05:04):
often we need the support andresources in place, we also,
like every school we've gotgreat people, so we would also
need to be aware of what ourpeople already know, what skills
and knowledge the team alreadyhave, and what we can draw on
and begin with
Arihia (05:19):
Can I just add something to my kōrero I missed. I said,
you know, begin withwhakawhanaungatanga reconnecting
as a team, reaffirming ourshared purpose. Two other points
I'd like to make is we want toanchor change in our kaupapa to
remind ourselves that everychild is part of a whānau, not
just a student in the and thefinal point I'd like to make is
(05:41):
provide clarity early so thatstaff feels safe and respected
on a journey that is really,really challenging at times, but
with whakawhanaungatanga, wejust learn to trust each other
and that we are the changeagents for our So it's really,
really important that we comewith the idea that our children
(06:05):
deserve to be well-looked afterby the professionals that teach
them.
Mārama (06:12):
Kia ora. Um building on from that Arihia, looking at
whānau as a framework ofsupport when there are multiple
changes coming through. Howwould you prioritise? How would
you decide which gets theattention first within your kura,
especially when everything seemsreally urgent.
Arihia (06:31):
I think that one of the lucky things about Māori mana
motuhake is that re-engage withMāori values, to guide our
priorities, what best upholdsthe well-being and our success
of our children, or our ākonga.Make sure that we place the
whānau's need at the centre ofthe change. If a change doesn't
serve the child and whānau well,it must wait. Balance the
(06:53):
urgency with manaakitanga andI'm a strong advocate of my
teachers' health andparticularly their mental health.
So I work very hard not tooverload them and we scaffold
that information we need to do,and do it with purpose, but with
dignity of the teacher in mind
Mārama (07:11):
Right, tika. Catherina I'm just thinking about that
comment balancing urgency withmanaakitanga, you have teenagers
who are going through somereally big changes in their
lives. How do you balance that
Catherine (07:26):
As in with the changes that are happening.
Mārama (07:28):
Yeah,
Catherine (07:29):
yeah. Yeah. Um, I, we have a very clear sense, I want
to go, I want to build on whatArihia was talking about around
values and the core of who weare, what is at the heart of our
school. Um, and we a very clearsense of that and come back to
that in our strategic priorities.Uh, we do a lot of listening, um,
(07:50):
being in a secondary school. Wehave the privilege, well, I
suspect that younger children dothis to in your kura, we have
the privilege of, um, havingyoung people who have a lot to
say, um, and our clever andarticulate and have a lot of
really good ideas. And so welisten to them a lot, because
that's a really important wayfor us to understand what we
(08:10):
need to prioritise for our young,particularly young women, in our
case, uh, at the moment. if weare looking at how we prioritize
changes that are coming,multiple changes that are coming
in, plus what we're listening tofrom students, what we're
listening to from staff, um, wemight use some of Liz City's
work around strategic ease andimpact. Uh, and we, we do that
(08:33):
as a staff. We might do thatwith our students and we do that
with our teams. Uh, if we justput everything out, then we
prioritize what's going to havethe most impact, but perhaps
have the best ease of, uh,implementation, uh, and where do
we start? So we break changeinto what do we need to do now?
What could we do in a year ortwo? Where do we want to be in
(08:54):
four years time? So try to breakit down so it's not so
overwhelming. Um, but listening,as Arihia pointed out around
your community listening isreally important to prioritize
where the is.
Mārama (09:07):
Hmm, that's a really good advice. How about you,
Lorraine, with your littlepeople?
Lorraine (09:12):
Yeah, that's right. I mean, there are obviously lots
of things currently. I mean,there always are lots of things,
and it leans into that wholething around competing
commitments scenario,particularly that principals
grapple with all the time. Thereare so competing commitments in,
in any given day or term or year.We actually used a framework
(09:33):
pretty recently, with our wholestaff. And we worked out that
there were currently for usabout 18 different things that
we needed to have our eyes on.Given that we only have two eyes
each that was kind of tricky. So,we used a thing called a
comparative marking strategy,and it's pretty simple, actually,
(09:53):
but it works really effectively.We took all 18 things that we
felt we needed to have our eyeson, we gave a copy of them to
all of the staff and then thestaff literally cut them up into
strips of took two things, forexample, no hands up structured
mathematics, both things that weneed to have eyes on now and
(10:13):
into the next two, three years.And decided for themselves,
which one of those things wasmost important for their
professional learning and put itin order, then they took the
next one, for example, might beunderstanding cognitive load
theory. And then they said, iscognitive load theory more
important for me to learn, thenstructured mathematics or less
important than no hands uppolicy and they went through all
(10:35):
18 individually and put it inorder and you have to make a
decision then around because youcan't do everything, what is the
order. So that became part oftheir professional growth cycle
individually, but then we tookthat and analysed across the
whole staff to see what are thetop three things for our 30
teachers to look at, and that'show we sort of managed to put an
(10:57):
order in place of what wasurgent for teachers. And our own
our own strategic goals as well,and a great way of prioritising
those things.
Mārama (11:06):
That's so great, because you've got that buy-in I
guess from your teachers, whocould possibly, with all these
changes, start feeling a bit ofchange fatigue. What other
strategies could you guyssuggest for bringing your kaiako
along with these changes?
Catherine (11:22):
Building on what Lorraine is saying, we've used a
similar activity around, um,what do we want our expectations
in classrooms to be and teachersactually prioritising is a great
way forward. We've also done aninternal and external circle, so
let's just put all these thingsthat are really acknowledged,
that there is change fatigue atthe moment. I think we need to
(11:44):
acknowledge it as principals andwe also need to acknowledge that
our staff, our teachers, have ahuge burning desire to do the
best work for students. We didan activity where they put
everything down that wasoverwhelming and then divided it
into internal and external sointernal circle external circle,
which are the things that wehave control over, which are
things the school has controlover, which are things I have
(12:06):
control over, which of those amI going to prioritise, which is
a school that we are going tosay is the priority. That was
quite a good activity and Ithink it is very important to
give that time to planning andprioritising and working with
staff and acknowledging all thethings that are sitting around
their heads. I also think it isreally important to safeguard
(12:29):
them so there is a lot of stuffin the media about this is
coming and this is coming. Ithink being really clear with
staff that we have got our handon the tiller, we have got a map.
We are not going to suddenlyrace off down this tributary
over here and grab this thing orgrab this thing here. We are not
going to suddenly startlistening to this professional
(12:51):
develop, we know where we aregoing and your job really is to
safeguard them a little bit Ithink around that as well.
Mārama (12:57):
I can really hear how important having a strong vision
is, and getting that vision inthat vision forward at all times,
to keep everyone heading in theright direction is a real key to
this. Arihia, you've got so manydifferent levels and you've
already touched on you bringingeveryone along together. How do
you build that internal capacityamongst your staff to balance
(13:21):
all of that?
Arihia (13:22):
We have a really open hear your voice strategy in our
kura and it's really, we arevery, very sensitive to our
student voice. So we reviewstudent feelings about learning
every term from year one to 13.It sounds quite ominous but it's
not, it's actually reallywonderful. That's one of my
(13:43):
strategies that when we'rehaving to make changes, I
usually collate those wonderfulthings that the kids say about
their teachers and we put themon the board and then I get them
to remind them, so they knowwe're going to have a think tank
about stuff that's going to givesome anxiety, but I want them to
feel settled in the fact thatthey're doing a great job anyway.
(14:05):
So they just make some feel goodabout their position as
professional teachers. And italso reminds us the world is
where our children are. And ineducation, that's very important
for us as Māori advocates. AndI want to pick up what Catherine
said. You know, we just getbombarded with PD that just
never lands for our people. Um,so we don't do PD whenever
(14:28):
something comes on, someonewants to save us from doing
something, we can actually saveourselves. So I think the
strategy of being within,knowing our own world and the
way in which activate, um,educational agency for our
children and our families, um,actually resides within
ourselves. For a few things thatdo land on the outside. And we
(14:48):
have another strategy calledNawe, Rawe, and Kawe. And what
we do as teachers is we lookwhat is in front of us. Nawe is
about, what are the things thatgive us fear. Rawe are the
things, what do we think aboutwhat are the great things that
could happen out of making achange process like this. And
then the other one is Kawe,which means what are the points
(15:11):
to consider. And then we, weextrapolate what a positive
point to consider and what anegative and then that's, that's
one of our building blocks tostart. Then the next thing we do
is we actually acknowledge thefatigue openly, we don't dismiss
it. We create space for kōreroand collective problem-solving
(15:32):
after reminding ourselves thatwe're doing good job. We know
what our fears are, we knowwhat's good about the change
process, and we know what weneed to consider that we didn't
consider in the positives andthe negatives. The final process
would be we would celebrate oursmall wins, but we would we'd
stay in keeping our moralegrounded and our pride in our
(15:54):
tamariki
Mārama (15:55):
Great to hear how you've really balanced that
internal capacity amongst yourstaff and built across to really
empower them to feel good aboutthese changes. Lorraine, how do
you get feedback or givefeedback to your community about
these changes that are comingthrough?
Lorraine (16:11):
I think the really important thing, and of course,
we would all say the same isworking in partnership with
whānau is the absolute key tocommunicating any kind of change
that we're going through inschool. But I think what's
really important and I maybesome schools are a little I
don't know, may a little whakamaabout it but being vulnerable in
(16:32):
talking about the changes thatyou're undertaking and the new
training that you're involved in,or the new ideas that you're
thinking about and keepingparents interested and engaged
in what you're doing, they'llall have a view, they have
children at the school, they'reinvested. And being really open
about parents being involved,for example we were thinking
about how we might change theway we report any kind of data
(16:55):
to parents, whether that'slearning data or a well-being
data or any kind of progressdata. And then I thought, 'Well
gee, you know, I don't have anychildren in this school so maybe
I should ask some parents whatthey would like.' You know,
we've all got bucket loads ofdata, we've got data coming out
of our ears in schools. So wegot a little parent reporting
(17:15):
group together, we just put itin the newsletter and said does
anybody to do this and have yougot some time?' and 11 parents
came forward and said 'Yeah,I've got some views on that.' So
they came and we've been meetingsince February, and they talk
about what data they'd likesending home, what format they
would like it in. So it's beenreally interesting to hear from
(17:36):
a variety of parents first youwhat's important to them.
Mārama (17:40):
That's so great. You've got them involved. That's a good
How about you, Catherine?
Catherine (17:44):
We are obviously quite a big school. Sometimes,
our parents are very busy now,working and they're sort of,
right, they're off, they'reteenagers. Our job is to really
create that whānau partnershipso that we can get that really
good feedback from all differentgroups of our parents. One of
the things I used and this isbecause I took over as principal
(18:05):
during COVID and so I had tofind a way to communicate. I
have a principal's vlog on aFriday. It is a video, it is me
talking. I had to do that tostart with because I was telling
the community about changes forCOVID which were huge. They
never met me, they never seen meand they weren't going to meet
me because we were all obviouslyhousebound. So the vlog. Now the
(18:31):
parents would... I mean, all thefeedback every year, they're
like, don't get rid of the vlog,they love the vlog. So I used
the vlog really helpfullybecause you can see my face,
you've got my body language,you've got my eyes, you've got
to talk about things that I maythen be going to email them or
communicate with. But I usedthat verbal message first with
(18:53):
them. We do the same withstudents, we'll gather the
students together and talk withthem about things that are, for
example, we're not going to havelevel 1 in science next year
because it's not preparing ourstudents well enough for level 2
and 3. We're going to have arigorous science curriculum
working through thatconversation with parents and
with students face to faceverbally very clear about the
(19:14):
why. So those are the sorts ofthings that we've developed to
get out to a really widecommunity. And then we have
built a lot of different parentcollectives who come and feed in
a little bit like Lorraine'sdoing really with a view to them
having a voice in things thatare happening in the school. I
think that is really, really key.Best you do something, if you're
(19:37):
listening to them, of coursebest you do something. So when
you go back, you can actuallyshow that they've had that
they've had impact and thenthey'll come back.
Mārama (19:45):
You've kind of touched on next question was about
adapting your approach to needsor the challenges of your
community when you'reimplementing a new curriculum.
Would you have anything aroundthat?
Catherine (19:59):
I think that it your word adapting is really
important, we're going to haveto communicate some really quite
pieces of information orunderstanding or mindset shift.
If we can find different ways todo that using some of the more
modern media outlets,particularly in big communities
where we've got a lot of peoplewe need to reach and offer that
(20:23):
opportunity to come face to facein groups to hear about things
rather than just your email oryour letter I think that, that
encourages that dialogue andthat kōrero between and you can
start to really and how arethese changes in practice et
cetera, you can continue thatconversation then down the line.
Mārama (20:39):
That's really good. Arihia, what systems or
processes would you use nowyou've got gathered all that
data from your staff or thatinformation from your tamariki
and from your whānau. Whatprocesses would you use to put
in place to monitor how wellthese changes do you monitor
that progress?
Arihia (20:57):
Firstly we have quite a robust data collation and
evidence checking system acrossthe three tranches of our school,
so zero to six. Um we break thatup into year zero to three and
then four to six. And then wehave a transition point check
from year six to into seven,which then sits in what we call
the engine room of our school,which our year seven to 10 area
(21:21):
because, you know, we're luckythat we get to have our kids for
all of those times. And then wehave another checkpoint at year
10, and readiness to go intoyear 11, 12, and 13. Along with
that, we have a whānau huievery month, so we get about 250
parents at every meeting. Andhow we do that is our media
(21:41):
studies class puts a videotogether of all the work, all
the things that we've doneacross the whole school that, in
that month. So that everybodycomes just to watch themselves
on, it's a great way to getpeople. We only meet for an hour,
and it's quite structured. Atevery meeting we report back
data. Um, so at the beginning ofthe year, it'll be the NCA data.
(22:03):
Then our next meeting will beour health and wellbeing data.
And then down to our literacynumeracy data, then our
culturalcy data. The culturalcydata is our name for te ao
Māori. So my parents are quiteused to, and they're quite savvy
at understanding data. And thenwhat we do is each term we have
(22:23):
a presentation by our studentsto their, their parents about
what they're learning, they'regiven evidence about that. And
then after they've finisheddoing the conference to their
parents, their parents, uh, markit. And then we give feedback
about how they presented, to thestudents, in a grateful way, you
(22:44):
know, so that they feel thepower of their own voice during
those times, because it's reallyimportant that the students
understand their educationalwhakapapa, and they know the
promise of what education cangive to them. So our students
have to basically in theconference with their parents to
say, I have NCA, blah, blah,blah, blah in this subject, this
(23:08):
subjects, this subject it'sendorsed and this, and what it
does, it gives them anunderstanding in their minds
that their educational prowessis really, really important. So
one of the mantras in our schoolis the more education you have,
the more choices you have, themore choices you have, the more
employable you are. And manamotuhaketanga is embedded in
(23:31):
everything from all the STEMsubjects right through. And I
think that's important about thewhole system understanding what
data means, what it doesn't mean,and taking the fear out of what
you don't know and placing itback with the things that you do
know. Then it goes back toteachers feeling that they work
(23:54):
together, they've got a strongcollective of vision rooted in
the kaupapa that we have, andeverybody then is alive from a
whānau, educational system,allow each kaiako to
professional professionalfreedom within the vision, room
for creativity and not justcompliance. And then the other
thing is making sure that thesenior teachers and the junior
(24:18):
support each other withconsistency, so you can grow the
shared practice. Because things,and another thing probably about
my school being little, is thatwe teach a number of NCA
subjects. We don't the luxury ofdifferent departments, so we're
used to sharing learningintegration and ways that our
(24:43):
students can build theirunderstanding of their
individual subject throughlearnings from other subjects.
So we share the learning, and wescaffold the skill in other
areas of subject areas to makeit more meaningful for the
students to get it.
Mārama (25:02):
That's really cool, it's you've built through the
monitoring and reporting somereal accountability of self and
accountability of whānau andaccountability of kaiako all
working together as a team tomove to shared vision. Well how
about you Lorraine when you'rethinking about processes to
monitor how the changes are orwhere the support needs to be in
(25:24):
your kura, how do you do that inyour space?
Lorraine (25:27):
I think it's a combination of your kind of
formal systems of looking at howchanges are embedded in the
school through your kind ofcoaching systems, mentoring
feedback, observations, teamleaders do a lot of that work
because they're kind of on thefrontline, they're teaching and
they're also leading a team,professional growth cycles, we
(25:47):
have reflective practicejournals that teachers also say
how things are going for them.So there are lots of ways that
you can monitor the changes in aschool but I think the most
valuable and it's kind of almostintangible, is those non-formal
walkarounds. You can feel withinthree minutes in a room, the
environment, you can hear thetalk, you can hear the change,
(26:08):
you can hear teachers excitedabout their and talking things
they're going to try next. And Ithink one of the things that we
underestimate is you know, whenteachers feel confident that
they're doing a good job, thenthat success and confidence,
breeds success and confidenceand you've got something to
build on. I don't think there'sa single teacher in the world
(26:31):
that goes to work to do aterrible job. Teachers want to
know that they're doing a goodjob, and they can feel it, they
can feel that lesson's hummingalong, that kids are engaged,
that parents are happy, thatthey feel like they got through
that lesson and it was great andthey feel a sense of
accomplishment. So yeah you canput lots and lots of systems in
(26:53):
place. But if you can build anenvironment and a school culture,
where success breed success andpeople are excited to talk about
what they've done, you're on agreat path.
Mārama (27:02):
I completely agree with you that first even seconds you
go into a classroom, you canfeel the vibe. And I think
you've kind of touched on myfinal question, but if you had
anything more to add for anyprincipals who might be feeling
overwhelmed with the pace ofchange and what practical advice
could you give about maintainingthat focus and momentum while at
(27:23):
the same time protecting yourstaff's what else could you add
to that Lorraine?
Lorraine (27:28):
Oh, I think that whole thing around competing
commitments is something thatyou have to keep front and
centre. We're, you're always asa principal going to have
competing through your wholecareer. So I think it's being
really clear about what's thefirst thing to work on for your
team at your place. You know,don't worry about what other
people are doing, just thinkabout what you need to do. So
(27:48):
what's the first thing you needto do for your team at your and
keep going and stick at it. Andonce you've, once you've learned,
you know, kind of whatever is,you know, whether it's some
structured literacy, for youknow, that learning is sticky.
stay away from being siloed intothings like we're doing
structured literacy or we'redoing maths. For example, if
you're looking at structuredliteracy, you can also look at
(28:11):
how you're using white boards,which would naturally lead on to
looking at formative assessment,and then you'd be looking at
Dylan Williams' hinge questions,and that would naturally follow
on as well. So, you start with,what's the best thing to start
with for your team at this time,avoid being siloed, and remember
that learning is sticky, and itwill lead you to the next thing.
Mārama (28:32):
I like that sticky learning. How's your sticky
learning, Catherine?
Catherine (28:36):
Love that. I'm smiling at that. Lorraine and
Arihia here have said a lot ofthings that I would absolutely
agree with and I want to just goback a step and talk about
collective efficacy and there'sa very good book, Jenny
Donahue's book about collectiveefficacy and when staff have a
sense of collective efficacythat we can make a difference
(28:57):
for our students with what we'redoing, I think you can go much
further than you think you can.With the overwhelm I have a
great picture that I keep abovemy my computer which is someone
on a rock with the storm aroundit and that person's pointing
over there that direction and Ithink I would tautoko a lot of
(29:19):
what Lorraine has said if youare in a space where there are a
lot of waves crashing at therock it's actually even more
important that your hand is onthe tiller and you're saying
right well which wave do we needto take first and that's the
wave we take, but keeping youreye always on we're still
heading in that direction andthen the next wave and then the
(29:41):
next wave. I think that's reallyimportant and that like Lorraine
said don't worry about whatother people are doing, decide
with your senior leadership team,review each week is this, you
know just, and with your staffthis is what we're doing and I
think you know it's reallyimportant to reach out though
and have those conversationswith people if you're feeling
(30:02):
really overwhelmed as aprincipal with the amount of
change, because you'll probablyfind that everybody else is
feeling the same and has alsogot really good strategies for
how to how to manage it withtheir staff. so those principles
and think oh my god they looklike they've got it nailed
because that is just not the joband there's that wonderful
(30:25):
picture of Liz City's bookaround how you have the sense
that you're going to be herethis is what your perfect
school's gonna look like -you're never going to get there,
you're always going to be ridingthe wave and then one day
someone else will take over butyou know you're still looking
after it going in that directionlooking after the waka or the
boat. But, you know, with thatsense of direction.
Mārama (30:47):
Yeah, and it bringing it back to you Arihia again, I
think that whakawhanaungatangaor the waka, you can't just row
it by yourself, your whole teamneeds to be going together and
their connections that are soimportant.
Arihia (31:00):
I think that's right about the collective of the
staff, but I think when you'rethinking about yourself, I think
that in order for us to not beoverwhelmed, think about being a
parent in my case a mother. Youtell your children to take some
time out, think about yourselffirst, have some silence, you
know, get back to calm, findyour own peace, practice that. I
(31:24):
would say do that first, becauseit's really, it's a hard job
right 30 years of principalship.I know for myself I've weathered
some serious storms, but theones that I've beaten the most
is because I've stopped and I'vebreathed and I thought right
where am I going and who canhelp me. It's really quite that
(31:44):
basic, you know, be kind toyourself because we have a lot
of unnecessary self talk about Ishould've would've could've, or
you know, if I go this way, oh Ishould have done that, and then
I would have made this, actuallymistakes I always tell my
students, the more mistakes youhave, if you learned from them,
you become an expert. So I thinkwe are so good at being
(32:07):
principals that manage for along time. We really don't think
about our own well-being. Andcan I just say that I've only
started learning this as Istarted my exit plan two years
ago, and I'm on my sabbaticalnow, and I leave at the end of
this year. But if I could, and Isay to, I've said to my staff,
if I knew what I knew back then,I would be a much better person.
(32:28):
That's the first thing. I thinkthe second thing trust the
people in your or in your school.Because for of the children in
my community, their school istheir second home. So you trust
all the siblings or the adultsin your kainga to look after our
tamariki and think lovingthoughts I would say. Some
(32:50):
people think that's a little bitof cultural fluff. We, it's not,
its reality. I would remindourselves to go back who don't
lose sight of why we are and whowe are and that challenges
possibly fears are falseexpectations appearing real.
then say to principals, protectkaiako well-being, pace the
(33:14):
change, prioritise rest andbalance so people can breathe
and take a aha moment. Becauseremember, most teachers have got
families, too. And not only arethey looking at it from a
perspective, they are havinganxiety about whether or not the
school is going to be fit forpurpose for their own children.
(33:35):
We always forget about teacherswho are actually parents as well.
So when you think about it,we're carrying both anxiety
issues as a professional and asa parent, will my child's
learning land for them. And thenfinally, for me would be
remember each child or tamaiticomes from a whānau. not
(33:57):
isolated. When we nurture themin their learning, we nurture
and what I mean by that is thatwhen we nurture ourselves, we
have a better society. So thoseare my pearls of wisdom. I hope
they land, no.
Mārama (34:12):
That is wonderful. That's great. Thank you so much,
guys, I really heard themessages around vision, about
connection, looking afteryourself and reaching out and
knowing that you're not alonewhen you're moving through this
pace of change and controlling.You're the boss, so you get to
decide what's coming through thegates and what you can pause and
(34:35):
um just owning that, it's okayto say no, we'll wait for there.
So yeah, thank you to all of youfor our kōrero
Arihia (34:41):
break.
Mārama (34:42):
today.
Arihia (34:43):
Thank you, it was lovely to listen to you both. you.
Mārama (34:47):
That was such an awesome kōrero, and it's great
to hear that we had a mention ofprofessional growth cycle in our
next episode, Eleisha will betalking to tumuaki about how
they lead their kaiako throughthe professional growth cycle
and how that can improvepractice. Mā te wā.
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